I do not understand why anyone would say officer Crowley acted stupidly because he responded to a 911 call. If Dr. Gates would have just shown his identification and proved that was his house, it would have been over with. Just like, Al Sharpton he chose to help divide the races once again. And, so what it that lady had told the 911 operator that two black men were breaking into that house, shouldn’t the caller do their best to describe what the perpetrators look like?
I didn’t understand Cynthia’s comments on This Week, until I read more about her. SAD
Your comments on “This Week” relating to Sgt. Crowley were met with a very good reponse by Michelle Maulkin,and it showed on your face.Al Hunt summarized the issue quite well.I suspect that Asthere are Cambridge polive officers who died while reponding to 911 calls in the middle of the night.As a physician,there have been several instances ov the years that ihave been called to the emergency room @3am or so,and when igo to introduce myselfand shake the patients hand,the reponse by the patient has been spit,anattempt at abite,head butt,kick or combinations thereof.
Ms. Tucker did a great job On This Week refocusing the discussion of the Gate/police issue to this question: what was the Gate crime necessitating arrest? It is frightening that we don’t perceive the attack on the first amendment when we allow and encourage a police department to arrest a person for being obnoxiousness or rude.
Underneath the news radar is a law suit that portends to change the landscape of “too big to fail.”
The Henry Builders (Docket No. 09-0730CV) law suit tests a core American principle, can our national government choose who lives or who dies in the midst of an international financial calamity, or decide which companies are bailed out and which companies are left out.
This law suit is a direct attack upon the national government’s concept of “too small to be included” as embodied in the Economic Stabilization Act of 2008.
A Brooklyn family business and a senior citizen seek to have the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008, declared unconstitutional and forever removing from the American vernacular, “too little to be included.”
This is the only known direct attack on EESA on equal protection grounds.
The entire issue of what has happened to the rest of America as a result of the selective legislation to bail out the financial sector has been completely ignored by the national and local media.
However, the judicial declaration that EESA is unconstitutional will strike at the heart of the national program to bail out the select financial community and others the government claims are “too big to fail.”
It is time that the Henry Builder Case receives as much consideration as cases involving the constitutional rights of those who our government claims are terrorists.
America’s Left Out Campaign does not question the right of those who seek habeas relief to be heard by our courts and media outlets but insists that America’s only law suit that strives to put an end to the bailout of a class of one deserves equal attention.
This case is currently on appeal to the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals.
Three (3) days after the case was filed a District Court judge dismissed this vital action on the spurious grounds that the court did not have Article III standing.
The briefs filed with the 2nd Circuit patently establish that the lower court’s hasty ruling was erroneous.
I saw you on ABC today and first I would like to thanks you for your Honest Level Headed Comments today! Michelle Malkin really offended me (being unemployed) with her statement implying that we are lazy and waiting for Unemployment Benefits to run out before we try to get a job. Here’s my stats: I was laid off and my annual salary was 100k plus, why in the hell would I be lying around comfortable with 1k a month and not trying to get back to where I was. Every day I apply for jobs in my field and I know I will finally find something even if I have to take a cut in payor travel to another City! Michelle needs a reality check thinking that she can get on National TV and represent the thoughts of the Unemployed. Maybe she is speaking for her sorry family members, and I’m sure I’m not the only one offended; I just hope they have the motivation to voice their opinion! I didn’t know you until today and I can assure you that you gained my upmost respect!
related to a different article of yours… why do african-americans always play the race card when people don’t agree with them?? with all of your education and intelligence, can you not think of a better and less “chip on the shoulder” comeback? who do you think perpetuates the race card in these matters??? surely not those always crying “racism!!”
While I can agree with some of what you have said, I think that in practice your remedy will not solve the problem. How exactly does one measure leadership, for instance? Any correct answer to this question must include the word subjective and therein is the rub. There will still be complaints that whites who might be empaneled to judge a candidate’s leadership were biased if they “score high” for white candidates and the same will be said of minority panelists who “score high” for minority panelists. The Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King is generally recognized as a great leader by many Whites as well as many Blacks. On the other hand there are a good many Whites as well as a good many Blacks who do not see him as a great leader. Each reach their own conclusions based on their own subjective criteria.
Many people have written test anxiety and that needs to be acknowledged so that an appropriate mix of oral, verbal and hands-on questions should make up any test, but the test answers must be objective or the problem will not be solved. You seem to suggest that the test as administered was unfair and I think that since this test must be based on technical aspects of firefighting (disregarding how the questions were administered) that your presumption must be based solely on the fact that so few (if any) minorities actually passed the exam. You don’t seem to allow the possibility that they simply for whatever reason failed to pass the test because they did not know the material as well as those that did pass the exam.
I was being deliberately provocative here to make my point that you (I believe) made a subjective judgement as did I and how this is wrong. The military uses a combination of factors to include evaluation reports, test scores (both written and hands-on with very strict go or no-go criteria), physical fitness scores, oral exam scores and several other evaluations to determine one’s fitness for promotion. There are certainly some politics involved, but perhaps the civilian world should look and our well-integrated military as a model of how to do promotion right.
So this is your take on the issue and the people’s reaction to something they don’t fully understand or never been explained by the bumbling administration. Your stupid ridicule is just one more example of failure to explain what this flawed bill is about and how it affects everyone. You want to enlighten us “bright star,” explain how we’re going to pay for it without cutting medicare, medicad, or payment for services and remain revenue neutral. You can’t even begin, but you are one fine example of cognitive dissonance masquerading as journalist. The Daily Kos would love to have you explain the fine points of how this bill will benefit us all.
Bullwinkle Protester, your protester friends DON’T want to understand this bill. Yelling socialism at town halls while taking the interstate there and collecting Medicare is asinine. If there was a legitimate issue with reforming Healthcare, where were these people when Bush was signing Medicare Part D? The costs of the Iraq war are a lot more than instituting health care reform, yet people such as yourself still oppose it. At Claire McCaskill’s town hall meeting yesterday, she asked those who receive Medicare benefits to raise their hands. 2/3rds of those in the frame raised their hands, yet still got up and said they didn’t want socialized medicine. It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.
I think it’s awful about the outrage and hate expressed over something that we clearly don’t understand. I consider this time period as assessment/and planning prior to implementing. The lies I keep hearing people speak about being cut off machines and how they are going to be allowed to die. They are trying to narrow the bill down to what is good but can we give them a chance to do it. I don’t think congress representatives don’t help the issue also by making false accusations of what the plan is. in the long run they will be the ones who will be out of a seat. my advice. to both the people and congressman. stop listening to everything people say. Gets the facts… express your concerns but not in a hateful manner that makes you worse then them .We can only accomplish good with unity and cooperation not hate mail.outburts and death threats…
jt, believe me there are many more great eateries in D.C. than in this country town. The last thing any federal employee wants to do is visit some nasty roach/rat infested Varsity.
Once again white America is running scared. What will be, will be. There is not a thing we can do about it. We can rant and rave all day long, but it will get us no where.
Neither purely capitalist nor purely socialist systems work. That’s why we have a lot of the social programs we do already. We realized long ago that we could not leave the solution to certain challenges to the marketplace when there was no market in it.
The insurance companies have found a way to put the market in health care coverage — by cherry-picking customers, negotiating lower payments with providers, denying claims as often as possible, etc. — but how’s that working for us? It’s to the detriment of our society and, in the ultimate analysis, detrimental to the long-term capitalist interests of American businesses, which can’t compete with businesses in other countries that are not burdened with these costs.
Now, we have an opportunity to take a more socialist approach in this area, because this is the type of area where a socialist approach works best, but so many people are afraid of “socialism” it threatens the possibility.
What they can’t see is that much of the prosperity and quality of life we enjoy as middle-class citizens in the United States is a direct result of the socialist-type programs we already have.
We need to quit being so concerned with labels and more concerned with what will work best for us, and the status quo ain’t workin’.
The issue is not that people don’t like the government provided medicare program…it’s that medicare is well on it’s way to going bankrupt. Most people that I know who are against Obama’s health care reform are worried that it will end up in a similar state. The best way to make health care more affordable for everyone is to give the power back to the people. Do away with HMOs. Health Care plans should more closely resemble PPOs or other High Deductible health plans. Give people the power to shop for their coverage, as well as, shop for their care. Competition is the only true way to slow down the rising costs.
“Lies and loopy conspiracy theories don’t need a thread of logic, of course” – as Ms. Tucker has proven throughout her entire career as a opinion columnist.
This author of this article is ignorant of how our government is funded:
“(Please don’t respond that recipients paid into the program with their taxes; all government programs — from the U.S. Army to agricultural subsidies — are paid for with taxes.)”
Our government only derives a portion of its funding from taxes. Much of what the government requires to stay solvent (i.e., current on its obligations) comes from the sale of debt (treasuries). This means that in no small part, Medicare and other government programs are actually funded by bond holders, both domestic and foreign. That’s right – the Chinese are actually paying a good portion of Medicare, in addition to the taxes that only cover a part of the bill.
One reason Medicare is about to go bankrupt is that it is designed only for old people who tend to be sicker than the general population. If we had Medicare for all, which the young, old, sick, well, rich and middle class, would all pay into, that would spread the costs, risks and benefits over most of the population, and it would not go broke. It would cover us all a lot more cheaply than our current system, and we would probably have better outcomes, like other countries.
As it stands now, we have abysmal records of longevity and infant mortality compared to countries with national programs, we spend more, and too many of are going bankrupt due to medical bills be can’t begin to pay.
So will you be walking home from work EJ, or taking the socialist 285 home? Do you grow your own foods too? People like you should be the commie FDA out of business. Will you be walking on your next vacation since the fascist Air Traffic Controllers are bringing this nation down with their activities. Just pathetic.
A group called 60 Plus has been attempting to convince senior citizens that national health care reform will require $500 billion in cuts to Medicare and result in denial of life-saving procedures. 60 Plus has even distributed a mailing which includes an out-of-context quote from President Obama saying, “Maybe you’re better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller.”
A few years ago, AARP hired an investigator who looked into 60 Plus and found that it was being was used as a front by the pharmaceutical industry during the 2002-03 push for a Medicare drug benefit.
ANOTHER RIGHT-WING ASTRO-TURF GROUP WITH LINKS TO THE BIG PHARMA!
I do work in heathcare. I have worked in Canada. Most of you, especially the protesters, rather than thinking about these issues on your own act as ditto heads of your favorite talk show host. Any reasonable individual knows that our current healthcare system is unsustainable. Have you priced premiums for private pay insurance lately? Maybe you are the working class family that saw their average premium jump 9% last year with an average annual cost of more than $4,000 out of pocket. Those who think this is acceptable are in denial. And guess what, I don’t get to chose my own doctor with my current insurance plan nor are decisions often made between me and my doctor. The insurance company decides. Why don’t you get off your duff and ask those of us who actually work in the system how we think it can be improved. Contrary to right-wing propaganda Canada does not have a socialist healthcare system, it’s a social insurance system. Citizens choose any doctor they like and decision making is local. If you want the source for this information I’ll be happy to provide it. Why don’t you also ask Canadians how they like their system. You’d be surprised to know that their satisfaction rates are much higher than here in the U.S. This debate has undertones of anger aimed at the Obama administration that have nothing to do with healthcare reform and that’s a sad state of affairs because we urgently need reform before you and I go bankrupt from a healthcare debt.
I’ve admired your appearance on T.V. for quite a few years. I don’t think you are being fair when you, using a broad brush, say that Medicare is a “single payer” plan. You leave some confusion in the listeners mind. There is a difference between single payer plans in which the medical staff are hired and paid by the government and those, as in Medicare, that are funded by the government , but the staff is independent.
…
And there, I think, is the problem–and a source of confusion. If the government opted for an universal single payer plan run by he government, the savings could be enormous, but the critics of “single payer” being socialist would have a point. I’m restricting my definition of socialism to include organizations and states that are completely managed by the government as in several Scandinavian nations or Veterans Admin. If the government opted to design a plan similar to Social Security, the plan might be called single player, but the opportunity to control costs might be lost.
Personally, I think the Democrats are running scared b/c they are being hit w/ so much resistance. They don’t know how to get everyone to agree w/ them.
At best, most people ain’t too smart. The so-called conservatives (dumb-redneck republicans) are just plain liars. They hate everything about President Obama and Democrats in general, there goal is to destroy our democracy by any means necessary.
Seniors love their Medicare but hate socialized medicine.
Union members love their union pay scale and benefits but hate air traffic controllers and baseball players when THEY have to go on strike.
Insurance companies say they can do a better job of supplying healthcare if we just give them a little more time. They’ve had over 50 years to improve, but still deny coverage, deny claims and add their profit to whatever the doctors decide to charge.
The bush-lovers didn’t mind spending a billion dollars a week on the phony war, but now spending money on our own people is socialism, a fate worse than death to them!
Citizen of the World…What is your excuse for Social Security going bankrupt then? Until the Federal Government can run any large social program without busting the budget, I will be opposed to new social programs.
Adding a minimum of 46 million low income citizens to a government run “public option” of healthcare is a recipe for economic disaster. Especially when the government sets controls on how much doctors, hospitals, etc. can charge for services (maybe it’s not in this bill, but it is inevitable, see medicare). Many of our best and brightest will venture into different fields to support their familys instead of going to medical school because they will be able to make more money with less hassle in another line of business. The result will be declining levels of care and an eventual shortage of doctors resulting in longer wait times for procedures.
Ms. Tucker, could you do all of the south a favor and just stay in Washington for eternity? You don’t understand America or it’s founding principles. You tout welfare and should therefore move to Europe.
Oh, you and Jay Bookman have also caused readership to decline by 90%.
They’re not a real movement, just a noise machine. Real movements have mass appeal, offer some kind of positive vision, and usually have support from big power players like business, trade associations, or national non-profits. They have none of these things, just some vague notion of socialism and a lot of fear. It’s not even a disagreement.
Only reasonable people can disagree with one another. If the pro-reform side wasn’t reasonable they would have already rammed single payer through without all this negotiation. For having a Democratic president, and sizable majorities in the senate and house, they’ve been pretty kind and welcoming to the opposition.
We’ve seen the high point of the anti-reform people. They jumped the shark when Palin started in about “death panels.” There’s no reasonable disagreement there. Just a bunch of craziness.
It’s time for the GOP to come to the table and answer the question, “What will it take to get you on board?”
With public opinion and political power the way it is, health reform will happen. Industry is on board, most of the public is on board, at least in a general sense.
As they say in DC, you’re either at the table or you’re on the menu. Despite how it may look in the Right Wing side of the media, blogosphere, or whatever, it’s political suicide to oppose this without at least looking like you want to work on it.
Once August dies down, and congress gets back to work, all this ’socialist’ rhetoric will sound pretty silly on the Senate floor, or in sitting down with the American Medical Association.
A bill will come together in September. Hopefully it’ll be a good one that covers everyone and brings costs down, while giving maximum consumer choice.
You can’t please everyone, but you can pass sensible legislation that helps to tackle some of the problems that America faces. And they will. I’ve never felt as sure as I do now.
So don’t eat at the Varsity. You’re going to get yourself sued posting such accusations about a business.
Chris Saltzman:
We don’t have a private health insurance market in the U.S. And you know it. We have a broken system so loaded down with governmental mandates and rules that it hardly works.
Ms. Tucker, by the way, did you know that your pal Chris Matthews gets less viewership than Larry King and PBS COMBINED? I saw Michelle Malkin school you a week ago on and could not help but wonder how anyone would ever listen to your opinion. Especially one of whom constantly brings race into issues where race is not a factor.
Ms. Tucker, since you are an “objective” journalist, nudge nudge wink wink, why are you not concerned with democrats who have no idea what is in the bill?
Why do you expect a newspaper columnist to be “objective?” Are Kyle Wingfield or Jim Wooten objective? It’s a point of view. Take it or leave it… or at least say what it is you disagree with.
Also, since when did a TV show’s ratings make them smarter or better? Sex and violence get ratings, not civil discussion.
oldmac, yeah, Mr. Obama just killed his own argument. I guess his teleprompter broke down. I’m sure Axelrod was steaming mad in the staged Obamacare audience.
Has this woman looked up the definition of socialism ? Do you own a dictonary by chance ? Internet access for webster.com ? Nice try. You didn’t convince me of anything Cynthia Tucker… You’re just as snowed as the rest of them.
itstrue, I expect every newspaper columnist to be objective. If you want to know why the public has such disdain for journalism its because they have become the DNC talking points spokesmen.
And again, you fail to understand my point. Liberal shows tank. America is not liberal and the townhalls prove it. Thanks for playing.
1. Because it is easier to get 10 second sound bites passed around the water cooler.
2. Dehumanize the opposition so the conspiracy seems more believable.
Healthcare Worker,
If Canada has such a wonderful healthcare system, why are you here in the United States ? If you don’t like our healthcare system, why are you a “healthcare worker” ? If you are in so much debt because of healthcare here, go back to Canada !!!! By the way, since you obviously don’t have a dictionary either, Canada does indeed have socialized medicine.
* It is a regular feature in a publication
* It is personality-driven by the author
* It explicitly contains an opinion or point of view
from thefreedictionary dot com:
Noun 1. newspaper column – an article giving opinions or perspectives
Liberals just go online more, and they’ve been showing up in droves at these town halls. I guess you’ll just call me a liberal know-it-all now. Whatever.
Once again Cynthia hits the nail on the head….I agree with you as usual! And love seeing you on sundays “This Week” …you represent Atlanta at its best! YOU should be on Part 3 of the Real Housewives of Atlanta !!!
What happened to all of the passenger railroad companies when the government took over and started AmTrak? How much money does AmTrak make? Once the government gets it’s fingers in the health insurance industry, we’ll call it MedTrak. A liberal never met somebody elses money he didn’t want.
itstrue, again, go back and try to comprehend my point. (sigh) Again, my point is, Ms. Tucker has always been quick to post her rhetoric only to have it rebuked by facts. She has NOT read the bill nor does she realize that the backlash against the DNC will be catastrophic next year. She also has been known to play the race card against GOP members all while ignoring democrat racism.
Ahhh…the old “racist” comeback….can’t you socialists come up with a MORE ORIGINAL comeback for once ? I mean, the “racist” thing is getting kind of old, don’t ya think !? LOL
Actually it’s pretty obvious that the only way to meet all of what Obama is promising is to limit services to certain people, and the greatest cost savings are found at end of life care. So if you ahve to cut costs, eventually you end up with some group of bureacrats studying numbers and telling doctors what they can and can’t do. Is it a panel sitting there decided who lives and who dies on a case by case basis? No. But if your Grandmother cannot get the medication she needs to love longer because the government decided it’s not cost-effective…. You will probably think of it as a death panel somewhere, just as now when peoples’ needed care is rejected by their insurance company, they think of some jerk number cruncher somewhere who has no compassion.
The difference is that now we can, if we’re willing to spend the money, move to a different insurance company that has more compassion. But if the government starts decided what can and cannot be done in certain situations, the only other options will be to go outside the system illegally, or move to a different country. Except, of course, there aren’t many places left to move to where you can live your life without a government telling you how to do so.
At any rate, what Palin said was hardly a lie. Overdone, maybe, but simply a logical follow through from Obama has been saying about his plan.
Here’s another point, documented in Fareed Zakaria’s new book: Other western nations without mortgage interest deductions — including Canada — have homeownership rates that are as high or higher than the USA (currently a shade under 68%.)
So . . If the Bush administration was going to run the “new healthcare system” would all of you be in favor of it? In 4 to eight years (12 at the outside, though Biden is unelectable) the Republicans will be running the show, history shows it. Is that what you want? I see all the rants against Bush as an idiot, etc., but would you want someone like him, or the next republican president, in charge of your life? Remember FEMA?
I am for an expanded safety net of Medicare and Medicaid. That is not what is being pushed here. As for me being an ignorant redneck who does not understand the progressive values of the promoters of this system, I will tell you why it will end up as an oppressive monopoly. I present the following:
Do you remember learning about Teddy Roosevelt (a TRUE progressive)and the other “trust busters”? Do you recall the Miller Anti-Trust Act? It kept entities from creating monopolies by underselling all competition until they were all that were left. The government’s ability to outspend without a profit is the government doing what the progressives of the last century fought so hard to end. When monopolies were created it was not because the competitors had a flawed business model, it was because the aspiring trust could outspend them and then do whatever they wanted as a monopoly.
The assumption is that government will give better service. Ask yourself this: Do I get compassionate service from my monopoly cable company? Did the government split up Bell and AT&T in the 80’s because of their great service? Think of any single provider of s product or service – do they care about the customer? Of course not, they are the only game in town.
Also, power corrupts and those in power will do what is necessary to stay there. Arlen Specter switched parties so he could stay in power, no other reason. Most there wish to remain for the power, regardless of political affiliation. Also – regardless of initial promises of restraint, government always grows. Look at the social security number, the tax code, OSHA regulations, the ADA, and many others. Once government is in the business it will grow like a fungus.
Also, government jobs are a property right – so the people managing your health care will know they cannot be fired without a long and costly bureaucratic process. SO the cost of care will be balanced against the legal costs to fire the inept. Does that sound appealing to you? Remember the 911 operator slept on the job and caused people to die by delaying ambulances here? Her supervisors did not want to try to fire her because of the hassle involved. Coming to a clinic near you!
Do I not care about the unfortunate, the disabled, the chronically poor, the recently unlucky or the just plain lazy? No! As I said before, what we need is a safety net. Medicaid needs to be re-vamped to provide clinics so the emergency room can be for emergencies. For those who cannot pay – diagnostic tools need to be available at central locations. This is needed.
Read the Canadian and British newspapers – for a few weeks and you will see what is coming. I do. I am frightened. Cynthia – you should try it. Before you left for Washington you seemed to be growing up and thinking independently. Washington seems to have set you back, though your column does point out our slow, sad march into the soft tyranny of socialism.
If what Obama wants in Health care ever gets passed….what do you think will happen when there are too few doctors to handle the load? of course there will be rationing! Have you not seen how the current “government run” medical system works?
Less money and fewer doctors will most certainly lead to picking and choosing, which will lead to less care for the elderly. It’s how it works in other countries with socialized medicine.
A little logic is all that is required to deduce such an outcome.
Itstrue,
Whew! I gotta hand it to ya, you’re almost as sarcastic as I am ! But you did forget to address one more insult to liberals…
the tired, worn-out “RACISM” accusations of people who dare to oppose Obamamunism…
Kyle, I don’t have an “excuse” for Social Security going bankrupt, but I can posit some possible reasons: One, when Social Security was first established, it kicked in at age 65, which was beyond the average life expectancy. Now, even though average life expectancy has gone up considerably, politicians don’t have the guts to raise the age of eligibility, so the payouts extend for many more years than what was originally calculated for. Also, people don’t have Social Security taxes taken out beyond a certain income (it’s cut off around $100,000 or so) so there’s not enough money coming in.
There may be other reasons of which I’m unaware, but just because there are problems with a program, we shouldn’t throw the baby out with the bath water. We recognized that our seniors were living in abject poverty and this program was a way to keep this from continuing on a massive scale. It could be fixed if politicians would “man up” to seniors and tell them things have to change to preserve the program.
Now, we see citizens going under on a massive scale because of our current health care system and we’re trying to do something about that. Will the solution be perfect? No, but it will be a step in the right direction.
Healthcare Worker: I get Canadians in my store all the time. I ALWAYS ask them about their healthcare and immediately they will start shaking their heads. “You Americans need to stop listening to Limbaugh and those other people and learn something for yourselves. I have my own doctor. No one decides what I can do or can’t do. I don’t have to wait any longer for surgery in Canada than you do here in the US.”
I have NEVER met a Canadian who had anything bad to say about their healthcare plan BUT who says we have to pattern ours after theirs? Why not take the best of each of the plans around the world? After all, EVERY major country in the world, except us, has some form of universal healthcare AND every country around the world gives better care than we get in the USA.
Speaking of Washington & Atlanta restaurants… Five Guys Burgers is highly over-rated. Those old DC-area reviews about being the best burger yadda yadda tat they post on the walls must have come from a town sorely lacking in burger options.
The cut-on-the premises greasy fries are very good. The brownbag gimmick is lame, and messy as well. As for the burger, well, something eatable? Sure. The best burger? Not even close. I’d take a Fuddruckers any day over a Five Guys, and I’m willing and do drive longer and pay more for it.
Yeah, I’m off topic but so what, it’s late in the thread anyway, it’s all dumb points and name-calling by now. I skipped lunch today and now I’m starving and only thinking about food.
Dear “I don’t think so” – Like Canada, Japan also has universal healthcare coverage. I lived there for a year and much of my family still does. It is not flawless, but last time I checked, it seems to be working – they spend approximately one third per capita (let me repeat that – ONE THIRD PER CAPITA) compared to the United States. Yet the Japanese have one of the longest life expectancies in the world. And last time I checked, Japan is far from being a “socialist” country. I lived there, its a great system and a great country. Before you start with your spurious personal attacks to undermine my credibility, don’t get me wrong, I love this country. But the argument that a government run healthcare system (much less the one which is currently being proposed, which is far from that) will be an unmitigated disaster, is hyperbole at best but more likely, disengenuous panic mongering.
The real reason the Senator is so quick to comment negatively on Sarah Palin is because Sarah Palin fights for free-market American individualism. Obviously the Senator believes a handful of elites in Washington can make better decisions than average American Citizens. The Senator must think that transfering life and death health treatment decisions from American Citizens to the State is a good idea. We the People do not. Neither does Citizen Sarah. Had the Senator taken the extra step to check the facts she would have found that Citizen Sarah attatched a bibliography to her statement on ” Health ” Care backing up her statement. Sarah Palin is the only person who is making any sense right now on this issue. Common Sense. GO SARAH !
It’s amazing Liberals go on ad naseum about how irrelevant Palin is, and then proceed to write multiple columns about her every week. For someone they claim to be so “unconcerned” about, they certainly are concerned with her.
This now-unemployed lady in Alaska now gets roughly a thousand times more media attention that the idiot whose title is Vice President of the United States.
Any good illusionist will tell you it’s all about misdirection, misdirection, misdirection. Pay no attention to what my right hand is doing, just focus on my left hand.
FightTheSmears August 12th, 2009 2:49 pm SAID: STOP MAKING THINGS UP. Nowhere did Palin talk about euthanasia in her statement on Facebook.
CHRIS SAYS: “”"The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s “death panel” so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level of productivity in society,” whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.”"”"____Sarah Palin
So what don’t you understand regarding Palin’s statement about people having to stand in front of “Obama Death Panels” where their worth to society is measured and whether they are therefore worthy to be treated or left untreated (and by implication left to die). Why use “Death Panels”??? Uhhhh, that seems pretty clear to me and also to a host of Republicans who called her statement “NUTS” or “SCARE TACTICS”.
The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s “death panel” so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level of productivity in society,” whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.____Sarah Palin
Citizen of the World…the politicians have done more than just not “man up.” They have made decisions that have helped push it towards bankruptcy…it is as simple as that. What makes you think they will make better decisions when running a public health care option?
If health care coverage was simplified (eliminate HMOs, health insurance pays a % of costs, never 100%) and people were given enough information to shop for care (mandated price lists), the rising health care costs would be stabalized due to the added competition. Unfortunately, the insurance lobbyists on K-street don’t want this solution because it will increase competition for their constituents…additionally the dems/repubs won’t push for this kind of solution because it will decrease some of their power.
Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security are all socialistic. While that approach may not be ideal for say farming, it’s auperior to the rampant capitalism gone amok that is the cause of our current economic problems. Okay, capitalism and government gone amok.
I don’t know why everyone is so upset that there might be some sort of sensible cut backs on end-of-life care, when well there should be.
My father-in-law was obviously only hours away from drawing his last breath when a doctor came in wanting to “check his electrolytes.” Was this going to make my father-in-law better or extend his life in any way? No, but it was going to add to his suffering and it was a way for the hospital to rack up another bill. We told the doctor no, no more, but if we hadn’t been there, they would have carried out this painful, unnecessary procedure just to try to make more money.
Actually it’s pretty obvious that the only way to meet all of what Obama is promising is to limit services to certain people, and the greatest cost savings are found at end of life care. So if you ahve to cut costs, eventually you end up with some group of bureacrats studying numbers and telling doctors what they can and can’t do.
CHRIS SAYS:
So Jimmy, I presume you’ve read the bill? Good, so for once we can have a substantive discussion because I too have read the bill. Where in the bill does it say that bureaucrats will tell doctors how to treat their patients. Also, isn’t this what is done right now by insurance companies?
But this article like many in the liberal media community spend most of their time twisting the words of people like Sarah Palin. Nothing in this article describes who Sarah Palin was actually talking about which is typical of the liberal media.
Sarah Palin was talking about Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel who is a key health care advisor to the Obama administration. Well who the heck is this character? I know who he is, but does Cynthia Tucker know? Of course she doesn’t know who he is.
Anyway, that’s the way the state run media works and that’s the way the town hall meetings will be reported. Anger, gun toting, pickup truck driving, religious bible toting, ignorant Nazi sympathizers crowding the arena’s spewing misinformation about a kindly sincere health care bill designed to simply protect the masses from themselves.
Yes the bill itself is very entertaining just like this article, a work of fiction just the same.
Thomas – Los Angeles August 12th, 2009 3:43 pm SAID:
The real reason the Senator is so quick to comment negatively on Sarah Palin is because Sarah Palin fights for free-market American individualism. Obviously the Senator believes a handful of elites in Washington can make better decisions than average American Citizens. The Senator must think that transfering life and death health treatment decisions from American Citizens to the State is a good idea. We the People do not. Neither does Citizen Sarah.
CHRIS SAYS: Hmmmm interesting. So, you’re saying that citizens who have health insurance right now are making decisions on what treatments to have or not to have. The private health insurance companies allow that? Which planet do you live on?
Thomas – Los Angeles August 12th, 2009 3:43 pm SAID: Had the Senator taken the extra step to check the facts she would have found that Citizen Sarah attatched a bibliography to her statement on ” Health ” Care backing up her statement. Sarah Palin is the only person who is making any sense right now on this issue. Common Sense. GO SARAH !
CHRIS SAYS: Yeah, this lady who couldn’t name one newspaper she reads when asked about it. Heck, she didn’t even think of naming her hometown Wasilla paper.
The AJC should print your entire column – I can’t find your usual direct or indirect remarks that this, like all bad things, are the fault of George W. Bush and that the only entity on the planet that can save us from this horrible crisis is Obama.
bobs August 12th, 2009 3:20 pm SAID: If what Obama wants in Health care ever gets passed….what do you think will happen when there are too few doctors to handle the load? of course there will be rationing! Have you not seen how the current “government run” medical system works?
CHRIS SAYS: Yes I have. My mother lives in Germany, is on the government health care and the only complaint she has is that she has to pay a copay of 10 Euros for medication and 15 Euros to see her physician. Have you lived in a country with “socialized” medicine?
bobs August 12th, 2009 3:20 pm SAID:Less money and fewer doctors will most certainly lead to picking and choosing, which will lead to less care for the elderly. It’s how it works in other countries with socialized medicine.
CHRIS SAYS: My mother in Germany, lives in a big city, but can make an appointment and see her physician the next day with an appointment. When she gets there, she usually has a wait of approximately 10-15 minutes. I know this because I’ve taken her on numerous occasions. I, on the other hand, living in Atlanta, using my employer provided group plan, usually have to wait a week for an appointment, to see my primary care physician. And once I get there, the wait times can be anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour.
Yeah, our system is just peachy. BTW, name me one industrialized western country with “socialized” medicine that wants to do it the American way?
Just the Facts – I think the life expectancy in Japan has a lot more to do with diet, exercise and lifestyle than the health care. Think about it – the Sumo wrestlers are the only people generally that big there. One Wal-Mart on Saturday has more corpulent people than all the Sumo in Osaka.
But many of those commenting here spend most of their time listening to people like Sarah Palin. Clearly these conservative posters here haven’t actually bothered to educate themselves on the issues they whine about – typical of those who love conservative media.
Sarah Palin was rambling about a fictitious governmental death panel in an attempt to frighten stupid conservatives and to prop up support from her clueless base.
Anyway, that’s the way the conservative media works and that’s the way the town hall meetings will be reported. Fun loving, educated, spontaneous, unscripted, decent, logical, true Americans calmly joining town hall meetings to engage in a honest discussion.
Yes conservatives are very entertaining; however everything they say is pure fiction.
“At long last, a few responsible Republicans are chastising their conservative colleagues for the distortions, exaggerations and outright lies they have used to denounce healthcare reform.”
So apparently only those RINOs who smear conservative principles can be counted as those “telling the truth”? What a pathetic, partisan statement. It is obvious from the townhall meetings and in news reports that many conservatives are the only ones who have actually taken the time to read what’s in the bill and we do not want the ideas spelled out in the bill to come to fruition. All they’re doing is repeating and commenting on what’s in the bill, but I guess that makes them “liars” in the minds of democrats.
And let’s get one thing straight, conservatives are not opposed to health care reform in the general sense of the term. What they are opposed to is the government-run-path-to-single-payer-system proposed by Obama, Pelosi, and Ried. Conservatives are simply trying to voice their belief that the government is not the end-all solution to healthcare problems. So do not say that conservatives are opposed to healthcare reform; what they are opposed to is the “reform” spouted by the democrats which everyone has now begun to associate with the term.
“Conservatives are simply trying to voice their belief that the government is not the end-all solution to healthcare problems.”
Conservatives don’t actually know what they are saying. Remember they are just reading a script written for them by insurance companies. Try actually talking to them. They don’t even understand the simple basics of healthcare are the options available.
Conservatives simply cannot backup their statements on healthcare reform with actual facts or even civil dialogue.
Cynthia your writings are just full of crap!! You not only hate your own race, whites and now you hate the elderly. Thank God the AJC dumped your butt.
righty August 12th, 2009 4:09 pm SAID: And let’s get one thing straight, conservatives are not opposed to health care reform in the general sense of the term. What they are opposed to is the government-run-path-to-single-payer-system proposed by Obama, Pelosi, and Ried.
CHRIS SAYS: And where did you read that this is a “government-run-path-to-single-payer-system”??? According to this plan, private health insurance companies will be allowed to enroll customers, though, after a 5 year period, they will be required to follow minimum care standards. Most people will continue being enrolled in private health insurance plans. Even President Obama has said that he is opposed to having a Canadian style single payer system in this country.
You seem to start out your opiniated drivel with exactly what you accuse others of doing, lies and loopy conspiracy theories. You obviously live in an alternate reality; Medicare is a scam and does not work. According to the GOA it is rife with fraud and the care IS sub-par. But I guess you would not know anything about that. Are you on Medicare? Then how could you possibly say “It is generous to its recipients, probably more generous than it should be”; and better yet here is an out right lie” And its recipients report high levels of satisfaction with the program, so they clearly believe that the government is running the program well.” You obviously have never had to deal with the Medicare or Medicaid, and you don’t know anybody that is on either. That is one of the big reasons all of these senior citizens are in an uproar. They are old not stupid.
Now more lies from you” Perhaps some of them don’t even realize that Medicare is a government program. Rep. Robert Inglis (R-S.C.) told The Washington Post that, at a recent town-hall meeting, a man stood up and told him to “keep your government hands off my Medicare.” Did you know that the monies allocated to Medicare and Medicaid is NOT held for that purpose? It is spent by our government on whatever project they want. That is what he was speaking about. So please stop the lies.
Here is another lie, by you, have you even read this bill? If you had then maybe you could tell the truth about it. “That brings me to my second favorite bit of cognitive dissonance — the idea that Democrats would approve “death panels,” as Sarah Palin put it, to decide whether the frail and the elderly should be euthanized. Hogwash. Conservatives who say so are simply lying outright.” This is not hogwash as you put it, it is in the bill that they would try to talk to the elderly to see if they should get the prescribed treatment, or would it be in the “Best interest of society for you to NOT get the prescribed treatment”
You and your kind are the exact reason people do not want this bill. Not a single democrat; including you, have read this bill. You expect us to follow Obozo blindly over the cliff, sorry we won’t. So tell me where is Obozo going to get the trillions of dollars to pay for this? Even the GAO says it is unsustainable.
Bottom line the, there is a difference between reform and take over. Obozo is looking for a take over, and if he gets it then the government will control close to 52% of our GDP, that is on par with every socialist country in the world, and more than some.
To do a true “Healthcare Reform” there is several things that can be done. First make laws that providers can cross state lines. Make the court system a loser pays, especially in the medical field. Then the big one, how about money that is deducted from our pay for these services is available ONLY for these services.
Hey Tucker. I forgot to drop you a line and congradulate you on your demotion. LOL… Thats what one gets for being so far left in such a bright red state…..
Say what you want about socialized medicine, you won’t see people in Sweden or Canada holding bake sales and spaghetti feeds trying to raise money to pay for a sick kid’s cancer treatments. If the U.S. system is so great, why are so many people denied care or dying because they can’t afford their medications?
Name me one conservative “grass roots” (though the term should be “astro-turf”) organization lobbying, protesting, organizing against Health Care Insurance Reform that is not financially backed by corporate health care, insurance or pharmaceutical interests. MOST, if not ALL, are essentially offshoots of corporations trying to protect their profits at the cost of the general good of the public.
I wonder why we are trying to penalize 90% of the population so that the 10% can have healthcare. Isn’t that the opposite of a democracy? By the way if we were not paying for the illegal alien care then we would not have this issue, your rates are high to cover the uninsured…
CHRIS SAYS: My mother in Germany, lives in a big city, but can make an appointment and see her physician the next day with an appointment. When she gets there, she usually has a wait of approximately 10-15 minutes. I know this because I’ve taken her on numerous occasions. I, on the other hand, living in Atlanta, using my employer provided group plan, usually have to wait a week for an appointment, to see my primary care physician. And once I get there, the wait times can be anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour.
jt says- well most women in Germany have hairy armpits.
That don’t mean that American women should have them.
Cynthia you are nothing less then a liar!! Let’s not forget that Medicare was intended as a safety net for those seniors who couldn’t afford coverage because they “worked” all their lives and where for the most part unable to work and did pay into the fund.
Medicare’s sister program “MEDICAID” for citizens UNDER 65 have distroyed Medicare because the lazy young people won’t work and spend all the money they DON’T have!!! Period, end of story
Harold said: “Sarah Palin was talking about Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel…”
jconservative said:
Emanuel is a cancer speccialist & a medical ethicist who is the man most responsible in this country for fighting the efforts of those who want to use euthanasia as an end of life medical practice. He has been the main warrior fighting the battle against euthanasia for over 20 years.
Read his books. He has published about 5 on the subject.
They are easy reads written in plain English with a minimum of medical jargon. If I can understand them anyone can.
Unlike his brother he is a somewhat conservative fellow.
You mention “They are fueled by emotion — anger, paranoia, anxiety”. Kinda like the election of a Democrat last election. That must have been a wrong move too.
What would Miss Tucker know, she hasn’t read the bill either, most of the Dummycrats in congress havent read the bill, at least thats how they answer thier questions when someone backs them in the corner with a question that pertains to something written in the bill, or they just plain out lie about it!
Miss Tucker, you should not anger the grey hairs, they are the ones who swung the vote in favor of your supreme leader. They are the exact ones who are going to vote all dummycrats out of office in 2010, and NOBAMA in 2012.
Miss Tucker, You are the Racist Socialist here, Not any of us!
A bit of research by anyone caring to find out if those rants about “socialized medicine” and “taking away our rights to medical care” would reveals one universal truth from all those countries that have single payer systems; has anyone ever read a report about citizens of any of those countries rioting and publicly demonstrating about how ineffective their medical care happens to be?
Answer who gets treatment when there isn’t enough available to be done in a timely manner for all who need it. Who decides who gets and who doesn’t. Government bureaucracy and bureaucrats! That is why people don’t like this proposal. Also the huge tax burden.
You came up with a 46 million uninsured “number” in a recent opinion of your’s in the AJC. Did you go count all 46 million? Are you counting illegal aliens. Because of the status of “illegal” they should not be given services. Too bad so sad.
But if you and your like-minded get this pushed through, they will make a nice addition to the liberal voting base. Not that Dems would ever have ulterior motives. They are incapable of such (LOL).
Also BHO says “no pulling the plug on grandma”. I don’t believe it. This proposal and supporters (including BHO) are good to go on pulling the plug on unborn children that are full of potential. So what would stop those people from eventually supporting the same for grandma, who’s potential is going down daily. And don’t tell me the unborn aren’t alive, because then nothing would come from an non-living being and you wouldn’t be so worried about having the ability to get rid of them as you see fit.
I know this will fall on your “deaf” ears, but it is my 2 cents.
Citizen of the World August 12th, 2009 4:23 pm
I’d like to know, specifically, what the conservatives on this blog would like to see in the way of health care
————
I would like to see the costs associated with the 30 million baby boomers who will go on Medicare & Medicaid in the next 20 years brought under some control. This year we will spend about 1 trillion dollars on Medicare/Medicaid hospitalization. If the costs remain the same as this year, by the year 2029 we will have spent 30 trillion dollars
on Medicare/Medicaid hospitalization. But, of course, the cost will not be the same, cost are going up 12% a year.
Question to you Citizen of the World: If you are an American taxpayer, are you prepared to pay this?
2nd question: Medicare/Medicaid hospitalization will have no money in the year 2019. What will you do with the 20 million old people on non-existent Medicare/Medicaid?
That is what this conservative would like to see in the way of health care reform.
So far not one member of congress or member of the administration has addressed the issue.
The figures are on the Treasury Dept website. Look them up for yourself.
That group of 40 to 65 percent white protesters who you claim have a problem with Obama because he is a “black President”, have no problem with Michael Steele who is the Chairman of the RNC. I think somehow, you’re minimizing policy disagreements in order to promote a racial agenda (BTW..I’m black and have mixed feelings about this bill).
On your point regarding “death panels,” its my understanding the “Obama end of life counseling” starts when you’re 65…. not two minutes after you’ve been declared terminally ill… but then again, it sounds like you’ve spent as much time reading this bill as I have.
Hey Jack Leg: Are you on Medicare? My mother was on Medicare for 20+ years and NEVER had a problem. Gall bladder surgery and cataract surgery when she was in her late 80’s. Hip surgery in her early 80’s NEVER a problem! Her care was NEVER “sub-par”. Talk about something that you know about.
Bromack: I’ll guarantee you that if Michael Steele was President, they would have a problem. Kind of like that woman the other night lamenting about how “It’s not our America any more”.
I briefly looked through the blogs today and notice the posting time — What has that got to do about anything — either all of you are on some type of government “assistance”/unemployed and getting checks/or you are just filty rich and you think that you have the right to complain about health reform. You should also read the article that the CEO of Coca-Cola wrote today supporting the health care reform. I said it once and I say it again — Health reform is not the reaaaal issue. This all started last year in November when the best candidate WON!!! get over it!! and you need to start looking for potential candidates because he is going to have a SECOND term and all the blogging in the world won’t stop that!!! LOOSERS!!!!
But, jconservative, how are Medicare & Medicaid costs to be brought under control if we don’t have the dreaded (acc. to conservatives) “bureaucrat coming between you and your doctor”?
I’m prepared to pay more taxes, but actually, I’d prefer that those in the highest income brackets (whose taxes were cut by Bush) pay more taxes. They can afford it more than I can and still maintain a very high quality of life.
But, jt, how does eliminating waste, fraud and abuse ensure that your family will be able to buy into an affordable policy if you get laid off from your job — or even be able to buy into a policy at all if you should be so unfortunate as to have a pre-existing condition?
Bullwrinkle, shut your mouth and listen and you might actually learn what the health care bill is about. Your vehement opposition to it has nothing to do with increasing the deficit. It only has to do with the color the President sports. You are one of the morons running around , screaming he wasn’t born in the United States. Now, hear this penis breath, the bill will pass! Screw off!
Its one thing to go on Medicare when you have paid taxes, plus have had your own health insurance during your working years.
Its quite another to not pay taxes and go on the country’s healthcare roles well before those people who are satisfied with Mediacare have.
I too am ticked off tho only in my 40’s, I have worked and paid into both private health insurance, and taxes. Why should able bodied people who could do likewise but have not, get similar to what I have worked for?
Why should my standard of care diminish to absorb the increased proposed population that would be covered by this new “healthcare reform”?
The medical community can hardly cover the present situation, how would they cover the needs of more people? Why would they be motivated to do so givin that a component of this reform is to manage what doctors can charge for operations, and other care, more than at present.
The proposed healthcare reforms will negatively effect the quality of care for the presently insured, it will scare away students from a career in medecine, all to provide care to a segment of people that are on the dole and always will be, and would show their thanks to the bureaucrats responsible for this fiasco, by voting them into another term.
I am not saying that people who cannot take care of themselves should be ignored, but if you are a lazy do nothing, why are you entitled to what I work for, and what a good majority of those retired folks on medicare have? And why Ms. Tucker do you continue to play this issue like “its no big deal” “Idon’t see what all the fuss is about”. Sorry, but you are very wrong on this one. Obama and his machine has his hooks in you good.
ALSO Bromack: Ask Johnny Issacson when the counseling starts. He’s the one that put it in the bill. It starts when THE PATIENT requests it. He put it in so people would get “living will counseling” and not be charged for it. YOU scare mongers created the “Death squad” hoax!
Algonquin,If I had to guess I’d say your vehement support to it has nothing to do with the actual contents of the bill. It only has to do with the color the President sports.
Since I have other things to do…like go to an early dinner with friends.
MikeB: Either way…if your employer fires you what are you going to do for healthcare? Take a Vobra package? Then you will have to pay your share AND their share.
If you have private insurance, what if you get colon cancer next year and the insurance company decides it is a “preexisting condition? An employee of mine (I can’t afford to offer insurance and she couldn’t afford to buy it privately) found out she has colon cancer and just had it removed. She and her husband will lose their house and any money they have in savings to pay for it and will still owe probably one hundred thousand dollars. What will you do? Die?
Citizen of the World -
Eliminating fraud, waste, and abuse will NOT ensure that my “family will be able to buy into an affordable policy if you get laid off from your job — or even be able to buy into a policy at all if you should be so unfortunate as to have a pre-existing condition?”
To make health insurance a tax credit for individuals, to allow interstate shopping, and to end stupid mandates WILL.
In short, the goverment needs to keep their involvment to a minimum. Then you will see prices decrease and quality increase.
The pre-existing condition people should have their own program.
Mike B, You “evil rich” productive member of society, How Dare You have a problem subsidizing illegals,unwed multi-birthing broodmares and general deadbeats who expect you to finance their existence. I hope you oversleep tomorrow morning and get in trouble at work! Right yall?? Racist.
SARA,
“either all of you are on some type of government “assistance”/unemployed and getting checks/or you are just filty rich and you think that you have the right to complain about health reform” Wow- did you really say that ? I don’t know who you think you are, but last time I checked, I do have a “RIGHT” to complain about this government takeover and no, it is not a “reform”. I find it funny that you are up there on your high horse and you can’t even SPELL !! It’s not “LOOSER”, it’s LOSER ! (Look in the mirror) Are you sure YOU’RE not the one on government assistance? LOL
One is the cut in Medicare benefits which will be 10% or 500 billion dollars to pay for half of the costs of the bill over the next decade. The other half will be payed through tax increases. Obama of course does not tell you that there will be a 30% increase in Medicare usage because of retiring baby boomers. So retirees get screwed in this deal.
Who can tell me about the IRS involvement in this plan?
What about the conflict of interest of hospitals and doctors who just want to treat the patients?
[ There is a fellow on this blog calling himself " Harold" as well who posted this:
"Conservatives are simply trying to voice their belief that the government is not the end-all solution to healthcare problems....” Blah, Blah Blah."
Please disregard, thank you. ]
Regarding Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel who is a key health care advisor to the Obama administration. Please take the time to read, “Principles for Allocation of Scarce Medical Interventions”, particularly the section involving “The Complete Lives System.” This is the type of person you don’t want giving advice to a president.
Leave Sara alone Pinhead. The only reason you can spell ‘loser’ is because you’ve been called that so often. You are a pinheaded republinazi fascist! Goose step all you want. Wear your brown shirt proudly but the health care bill will pass!
This blog would be humorous if the topic were not so serious.
Both sides need to ratchet down the rhetoric and engage in healthy democratic dialogue based on facts, not rumors or the latest from the mouths of the radio and tv shock jocks and jockettes.
The basic facts are:
1. There is NO BILL
There are several bills moving through Congress on this topic just like there is in any legislation of this complexity. There are multiple bills in each house. Eventually both houses of Congress will need to harmonize their respective bills and vote on them. The House and Senate will then go to Conference to work out the final bill that is a negotiation between the two chambers. Only then will there be A BILL for each house to vote on and depending on the outcome the bill moves to the President for signature.
2. No ’socialized medicine’
There are no proposals for “socialized” medicine. The government would own and operate all aspects of the health care delivery system in a socialized system. The hospitals would be government owned, the doctors, nurses, etc. would be government employees. That is not on the table.
3. Medicare and Medicaid
Bothare public government insurance programs. So the uneducated that suggest that the government keep their hands off of Medicare need to be educated.
4. Single Payer
A Single Payer system itself is much closer to ’socialized’ medicine but that is not on the table. Some in Congress favor it but it will not be in any final legislation. In such a system only the government insurance program would exist. That doesn’t mean the delivery system is also government owned. Hospitals could continue to be privately owned and operated and doctors and nurses would not necessarily work for the government. That type of system is more likely in my view to eventually progress to a government run delivery system but it is not a foregone conclusion.
5. Public Option
This is indeed not socialized medicine. It is simply a government administered insurance program that would serve as an alternate to private insurance. Subscribers would pay premiums to this system as they would to a private insurer. The public program would then reimburse providers based on contracts just like Medicare/Medicaid do as well as all private insurance programs.
6. You are not going to be forced out of your current coverage. If you like your doctor and you insurance you keep them. Large employers will have a disincentive to drop coverage and force employees onto the public option (believe it is an 8% payroll tax penalty that would then be used to pay for the employees’ public option insurance). True if the private companies do not compete with the public option more people will move to the public option. That is what free markets are all about…the one with the best product and value wins. Keep in mind as well that most large employers are “self insured” which means they pay an insurance company only to manage their health care plan. It is the company that pays for all of the services provided under the plan.
7. No abortions or death panels
I have looked at the bills and none of them contain funding for abortions. None contain anything about forced abortions. None contain anything about death panels. Cynthis addressed this issue in her blog
8. Rationing
Let’s face it, health care is rationed today. Every single commodity and service is subject to the laws of the market. There is always going to be a limited quantity of everything. Today that rationing is done by the private insurance companies who are in the business to maximize return for their shareholders. As part of their business they pay huge salaries to executives, spend lots of money on advertising, etc. That money could be channeled to improve health care. Private insurers are not interested in providing you with insurance, they are interested in taking your premiums and investing them and then paying for as little health care as possible in order to maximize yields. So while we may talk about someone making a decision on rationing health care let’s not fool ourselves into thinking it isn’t rationed today.
9. Funding
This is probably the most contentious issue. I agree we need to address the potential for impact on the deficit but let’s keep in mind that the estimates are around 1.6 trillion over 10 years. The President and Congress have agreed that any final legislation must be deficit neutral. If they don’t deliver then let’s throw the bums out in the next election cycle.
Name me one conservative “grass roots” (though the term should be “astro-turf”) organization lobbying, protesting, organizing against Health Care Insurance Reform that is NOT financially backed by corporate health care, insurance or pharmaceutical interests. MOST, if not ALL, are essentially offshoots of corporations trying to protect their profits at the cost of the general good of the public.
So there’s your challenge folks.
CHRIS SAYS: Still no takers, eh? NOW THAT SPEAKS VOLUMES WHERE CONSERVATIVE INTERESTS ARE………………….
Things must be getting desperate Cynthia has opened up her blog. You got to love some of those Cynthia words applied to everyone who disagrees with her: Like, rant!
Anyone who thinks Medicare is not the greatest thing since sliced bread is automatically deemed a hater of all things holy and certainly has resorted, to heavens forbid, bashing! Never mind calling government control of industry, or government competing against private sector companies in an industry socialism, that is simply not the case. Remember, our President cited the example of our postal service and how UPS and Fed Ex are doing just fine despite the government competition: Yeah, but he didn’t say how badly the postal service is doing, did he?
Here’s a real simple question the liberals have yet to answer, Ms. Tucker: Why does our government have to be in the healthcare business?
Liberals love to bash America’s healthcare. They are quick to recite how great other nations are doing in healthcare compared to how lousy the U.S. is doing with healthcare in our system.
How many of the liberals would like to see America go to a system like that of Switzerland?
Everyone in Switzerland has to buy health insurance on their own. And there are about 60 different insurance companies to choose from. Premiums run between six and $7,000 a year for a typical family. The government subsidizes lower-income people for their coverage, about one-third of the population. Because premiums are not tied to income, people in the middle income range bear a heavier burden. Insurers cannot fleece customers. In fact, insurers are not allowed to make money on basic health care coverage.
For the basic package, the insurance companies cannot make a profit. But they can sell supplemental insurance for better, you know, single rooms or better eyeglasses, and on those they can make profit.
For most people, the real choice in the system is what kind of deductible to select. Deductibles run from $300 all the way up to 2,000. Insurance funds with large numbers of chronically ill people are compensated through a risk equalization fund. The price for major procedures are below those in the United States because the government enforces price controls.
Nonetheless, the whole system is expensive, the third highest behind the United States and France. The Swiss spends 11 percent of GDP on health care versus 16 percent in the U.S. Per capita that works out to $4,417 on health care versus 7,290 in the U.S. There is one doctor for every 256 people versus in the United States, one doctor for every 416 people. Life expectancy in Switzerland is 81.7 years versus 78 years in the United States.
Footnote: Taxes can be higher in Switzerland, as high as 41.5 percent.
Typical. Given that Tucker’s positions over the years identify her solidly as a Socialist (and a pro-minority BIGOT), this column was expected. And gee…if it opposition is only about the President’s race…how is it that black people are seen speaking out against the plan too? In fact, one African-American fellow was beaten by an SEIU thug outside one of the townhall meetings last week (see the video on YouTube). Tucker is a dolt.
Citizen of the World -
Eliminating fraud, waste, and abuse will NOT ensure that my “family will be able to buy into an affordable policy if you get laid off from your job — or even be able to buy into a policy at all if you should be so unfortunate as to have a pre-existing condition?”
CHRIS SAYS: No, that won’t pay for it but its going to help.
jt August 12th, 2009 5:29 pm SAYS: To make health insurance a tax credit for individuals, to allow interstate shopping, and to end stupid mandates WILL.
CHRIS SAYS: Hahahaha. I;m surprised you didn’t mention tort reform! Obviously, someone who doesn’t have a clue how health insurance works. Parroting conservative talking points doesn’t really help your cause.
1) Tax credits do nothing against insurance firms raising costs and pricing target individuals out of the market PLUS if you’re unemployed or taking care of a sick relative then a tax credit is useless.
2) to allow interstate shopping: Insurance regulations are governed by the individuals states. Since there is minimal difference in costs between states invalidates that argument.
3)end stupid mandates WILL: What mandates are you talking about. Please specify so I can shoot this down too.
4) The pre-existing condition people should have their own program: This is the stupidest one of all. Yeah, lets have all the high risk folks in one pool. So, which insurance company is going to be willing to insure them??? And who’s going to be able to afford to pay for that, even with your lame idea concerning tax credits! Health Insurance works on the 80-20 principle. 80% pay for the 20% who actually use the system (another reason why medicare is going bankrupt).
jt August 12th, 2009 5:29 pm SAYS: In short, the goverment needs to keep their involvment to a minimum. Then you will see prices decrease and quality increase.
CHRIS SAYS: Another good one! Remember when California deregulated its electricity? Prices went through the roof. Remember when gas got deregulated? Same thing! Yeah, the free market will regulate itself, right? We’ve had such a wonderful experience with that theory, correct?
So, jt, stop parroting conservative ideas and come up with a few of your own. You obviously don’t have a clue about anything at all.
To I don’t think so honey!!
No I pay taxes for your D@##@M medicare and Social Security YUP! your existence!!! Gray-headed lady you need to stay away from the town hall meetings because all look real stupid! Stop complaining and go read your BIBLE — you need Jesus!!!!
Captain Midnight, I doubt you’re a captain. You’re probably still private Midnight. No, I’m not black. His color is of no significance to me. He’s a good guy and a good president. Go spray up some more swastikas fool!
Michael H. Smith August 12th, 2009 5:56 pm SAYS: ….Nonetheless, the whole system is expensive, the third highest behind the United States and France. The Swiss spends 11 percent of GDP on health care versus 16 percent in the U.S. Per capita that works out to $4,417 on health care versus 7,290 in the U.S. There is one doctor for every 256 people versus in the United States, one doctor for every 416 people. Life expectancy in Switzerland is 81.7 years versus 78 years in the United States.
CHRIS SAYS: You just shot down your own argument. So, the Swiss spend about 60% per capita of what the we spend yet have a better health care system? So, if we spend a higher amount even with lower taxes, then this begs the question regarding what we’re spending all this excess money on??? Also keep in mind that Switzerland has a much higher standard of living than the United States which artificially inflates costs for them.
So again, even with lower taxes and cost of living, we spend almost twice the amount on health care than the Swiss and still have a messed up system. Where’s all this extra money going?
Saw you on the News Hour gushing about the big “O’s” staged presentation in N.H.. We know the promises he makes he cannot keep. He is like a used car salesman telling you what you want to hear.
Love his witty analogy about the UPS, FEDEX, USPS. Isn’t the post office government run. I see the same type of operation if we turn over healthcare to this nimrod and his court. Pharmaceuticals have already cut a deal with him because they know they need the elderly block of voters or this won’t pass. Why do we insist on passing a bill that is so complicated just for the sake of passing it, see the 2012 process already in effect…I think I will cling to my religion and guns, they never let me down.
No the so-called free market will not regulate itself. Using the deregulation of electricity and gas are not good arguments, they really are flawed. Allowing the interstate selling and buying of healthcare insurance should happen but it is only a small piece of the American answer to reforming the “healthcare system”. Deregulating the interstate selling and buying of healthcare insurance, is “healthcare insurance” reform that does not reform the system. More has to be done beyond the reform of healthcare insurance but government is not the one to own, control or administer the non-profit competition that will be necessary to bring pressure to bear against private sector insurers in “reforming the healthcare system”.
The debate actually has two parts: Insurance reform and system reform.
1. Social Security was solvent and now is broke.
2. Medicare was solvent and now is broke.
3. America was solvent and now is broke.
The United States is currently 11 Trillion is Debt and counting. We can not afford another open ended program that the President knows will drive us deeper into debt.
There are two truisms of the proposed healthcare plan:
1) If you already have health insurance and the means to take care of yourself and your family, your options and the quality of your healthcare will get worse.
2) If you are not currently covered and have no means by which to procure health insurance (or simply choose not to pursue same), your options and the quality of your healthcare will improve.
This is yet another attempt to take away from those who worked to provide for themselves and their families to subsidize those who didn’t.
I think what Mrs. Palin has said is accurate as it can be. The lib’s/Dem’s are in the business of lying to the American people so of course they are going to say everybody else is wrong and they are right. For me and my family this is what I see……Say for example that this communist healthcare bill becomes law and my employer is under a mandate to offer a public option. Now lets say that all of the employees decided against the public option. The powers that be in my company are in the business of making money so they, from a purely business viewpoint, look at what they pay for their employees healthcare. In that review they see that they could save x amount of dollars a year if they discontinued employer sponcered healthcare under the guise that healthcare is just too expensive. So I lose my healthcare and am forced into a communist plan. This will happen to millions of Americans as the businesses they work for find it cheaper to go with a communist plan. So contrary to what oblow says I will not be able to keep my current plan. The only difference is that oblow, the lib’s and the dem’s will be able to say we didnt do it, it was your employer. All the while knowing full well that it was the communist plan caused the problem.
One of the “mandates” jt may be thinking of is the obama proposal that insurance companies can’t deny you coverage for pre-existing conditions. What’s wrong with that?
Algonquin, you’re terminally stupid and really don’t have anything to offer other than your unimaginative name calling. Your intellligence is so low it can’t be measured so please get help now.
Michael H. Smith August 12th, 2009 6:28 pm SAID: Chris missed the question, there was no argument. But is there was one it would have been no government Public Option. Wake up Chris!
CHRIS SAYS: Point taken. But #1) this isn’t about a single payer system because that’s not what this reform bill is about. We aren’t going there with this reform bill. #2) I can assure you that the Swiss “Free Market System” is extremely heavily regulated with very stringent quality of care and cost guidelines which is something this reform bill is trying to accomplish and finally, #3) Since poor income groups are heavily subsidized, doesn’t that equal government involvement especially taking into account the stringent Swiss regulations regarding their insurance carriers?
mike, the post office is no longer government run. that’s probably why service has improved over the years, and it’s cheaper for some things than fedex or ups. the post office’s problem is that it has a lot of legacy costs from before privitization, like expensive labor agreements and a lot of unproductive real estate.
a better comparison may be the education business. if we allow the government to get involved in health, will it put the insurance companies out of business? well, we’ve had public education in this country for more than a century, and there seems to be no shortage of private schools at every level. the competition seems to be good for both sectors. perhaps the “public option” isn’t such a bad idea after all.
dave morris August 12th, 2009 6:40 pm SAID: One of the “mandates” jt may be thinking of is the obama proposal that insurance companies can’t deny you coverage for pre-existing conditions. What’s wrong with that?
CHRIS SAYS: According to conservatives, any regulation is bad. You get treatment denied due to pre-existing conditions, then you’re SOL. That’s what conservatives would say (but not too openly).
Murkowski doesn’t like Palin because Palin fought against the old-guard, corrupt Alaska GOP that Murkowski and her father are a part of. Palin could easily take Murkowski’s seat some day. Murkowski’s just trying to attack a potential rival.
You are making the same tired old assumptions that all conservatives (& all liberals for that matter) all march to the same tune.
All conservatives I know realize that bureaucrats already control most of American health care. They are the insurance companies. Examples:
1. We will pay 90% in network; 60% out of network. (Therefore, you probably want to go to one of our doctors, not your doctor.) 2. We (insurance co.) will only pay for 20 sessions. But my wife needs 30 sessions! We will only pay for 20 sessions! – Very few Americans really get their choices in health care. This is a fiction.
Let the rich pay for it? Suits me. But the Treasury department has already determined that any plan being discussed to raise taxes on the rich will not be enough to pay for the baby boomers. And I am only talking about Medicare/Medicaid hospitalization. There are also doctor bills, drug bills, etc, etc, etc. None of these totals are in my totals previously outlined. It’s a puzzlement!
Again, the problem is that NO ONE is addressing the problem.
Chris continues to misunderstand, single payer was not mentioned. Public Option was the term used which will be a government ran, controlled and administered system. On point two: Nothing to the affect was said that the Swiss is not regulated so what is the point of point two? Regulation to bring down costs can take on many forms without this government Public Option proposed in these bills. As to point three: There is a very big difference between involvement in a program to actually owning, controlling and administering a program.
I welcome dialogue about the health care debate but would like to base the discussion on facts.
You have asserted that those with health care today will be worse off and those without health care today will be better off.
Those are opinions but are not supported by facts. I would love to see your arguments and the corresponding facts. But I don’ think we progress the engagement by throwing out assertions that are not supported by facts or at least a rational argument.
I clicked on this headline to find out what Palin lied about and who called her a liar. What I find here, however, is the only lie is the headline of this non-’’story”. Ms. Tucker, this is slimy ‘journalism’. Go find something else to do with your life. If you have a talent, try to figure out what it is and try to get good at something, perhaps something involving a push broom and mop bucket.
TXPatriot512
First of all thank you for engaging in thoughtful dialogue.
I concede that one of the objectives is to extend health care coverage to those without it. If we assume there is greater coverage then those without are arguably better off. Today they get services but in the form of charity care in emergency rooms and the like.
I do not dispute that more people accessing the same limited pool of health care resources is a problem. What I dispute is the assumption that by providing health care coverage to X million (the numbers vary so wildly depending on the source I don’t want to use a number here) will necessarily limits or curb avaiability.
Most of those people get care, in the form of emergency room and urgent care facilities. That cost is subsidized by you and I (I assume you like myself are privileged enough to have good insurance coverage) either through taxes, i.e. Medicaid or higher co-pays or costs for services, i.e. hospitals, etc. have to recover the cost of free care by charging paying patients more.
Yes, these people today aren’t competing for routine physicals, x-rays, etc. and that would change under a reform that provided broader coverage.
But the services that are provided today are at the most expensive touch points in the system, i.e. emergency rooms, etc. If indeed more were covered and had routine physicals, etc. pressure would be relieved from those touch points and be transferred into preventive medicine. People would discover disease, etc. earlier at a time when it is less expensive to treat, etc.
I believe that that projection suggests that while we might need to re-train and refocus our public policy toward more primary care physicians, etc. that over the long haul this would be a prescription whereby there will be less stress on the system. People engaging in more healthful lifestyles, catching disease earlier, etc. should overall reduce the cost and drain on resources for the currently unemployed.
Race card is that all you got…what a truly truly horrible thing to say Tucker about hard working Americans that feel this bill is not all their tellings us…you make me sick…and I am black and tired of hearing the race card did you forget he is also white…you are the TRUE RASIEST….and an IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!! As Michael Jackson said I’m not going to spend my life being a Color…
I don’t care if you dem or rep,one thing that I do know is that healthcare,in America is messed-up. All the bad mouthing about the plan,I say to you people where your is your plan. As great as this country is NO ONE should be without healthcare. It’s a human right.
August 12th, 2009
6:40 pm
“One of the “mandates” jt may be thinking of is the obama proposal that insurance companies can’t deny you coverage for pre-existing conditions. What’s wrong with that?”
About breast cancer preventative care? How about gynocologist visits?
What about pregnancy?
I need none of the above.
Furthermore, once an insurance company is FORCED to accept people with pre-existing conditions, that insurance company CEASES to be an insurance company. It becomes just some goverment welfare program.
I don’t understand Michael Smith’s point. I agree with him that Switzerland’s system is better and cheaper than ours. That’s great. Why don’t we do that ?
If I understand correctly, Switzerland mandates that you have health care and regulates the industry carefully so that insurance comanies don’t fleece you. They also pay for your health care if you lose your job. This solves a lot of the problems we have here: if Americans lose our job we lose coverage, and uninsured Americans often become freeloaders who drive up the cost of insurance. No more of this pre-existing condition descrimination either. Sounds great. Let’s do it.
But if these measures were proposed here, wouldn’t the conservatives be just as freaked out as they are now? Wouldn’t they call this socialism? Wouldn’t they make up the same nonsense they are now?
I really don’t understnad caj’s point. Caj, right now your employer can decide to not cover you if they wish. And then you’re on your own to buy health care – which is exactly what’s going on with my family. I’m covered, but not my wife, or my kids. My wife has coverage through her work, but we’re going to have a second kid. When she stop sworking, we will need to pay for everything out of pocket. That will cost $350/mo for a catastrophic plan. I don’t have that kind of money. Obviously if anyone became ill/got hurt, we’d be in big trouble. This is a very big problem for young families. What are the Republican’s doing to help us? Nothing! They just make up nonsense to scare the senior citizens.
See, what did I tell you all after my earlier burger comment (see page 1). By this point, the thread is past name calling and dumb points, and well into capital letters and bold.
Woo-hoo.
Oh wait, I forgot the Magna Carta-length postings, too, snarf!
Mmm-mmm, I’m going to get a Fuddrucker’s cheddar cheeseburger in the next 72 hours, with freshly toasted bun and fries. Ketchup between the bottom bun and patty, then ketchup on top of the patty. Mayo on the inside of the top bun, followed by mustard. Top with lettuce and tomato, mmm-mmm!
Only have to decide do I want the 1/3-pound or the 1/2 pound? Anyone want to vote? I will post results if this is still open.
I was baiting the liberals Evan. Naturally they didn’t bite. If they had it would reveal something they and the others pushing this Public Option want, that they will die before conceding it: The Public Option in these two bills have more to do with government taking more power and control of healthcare.
There are six Senators working on a bipartisan bill to establish consumer healthcare cooperatives that will be owned, controlled and administered by its consumer members – not the government - which will do what these Public Options bills will not do. I encourage you do some research on your on about the Co Op healthcare plan in the Senate.
Chris continues to misunderstand, single payer was not mentioned. Public Option was the term used which will be a government ran, controlled and administered system. On point two: Nothing to the affect was said that the Swiss is not regulated so what is the point of point two? Regulation to bring down costs can take on many forms without this government Public Option proposed in these bills. As to point three: There is a very big difference between involvement in a program to actually owning, controlling and administering a program.
CHRIS SAYS: Okay, lets move over to the Swiss system. We’ll get strict cost controls because government regulations which will prevent insurance companies from making a profit on basic plans. Also, the fact that they spend almost half of what we already spend so that should save us literally over a TRILLION $$$.
So, in short, the Swiss have a heavily regulated PRIVATE health insurance system with strict cost controls and regulations requiring coverage of pre-existing conditions. Also included, I assume, is the clause to cover unemployed people and their families. Plus, I’m sure health insurance coverage is MANDATORY, right? Excellent. If we can get that I’m all for it. Lets see how your conservatives friends react to this since anything that REGULATES corporations from turning a profit on anything and makes COMPULSORY coverage is anathema to them.
Chris read my last post, then come back. I’ll tell you exactly what I want and that is not the Public Option or any other scheme the government will own, control or administer.
Michael H. Smith August 12th, 2009 9:14 pm SAID: Chris read my last post, then come back. I’ll tell you exactly what I want and that is not the Public Option or any other scheme the government will own, control or administer.
CHRIS SAYS: I don’t care either as long as costs can be controlled, pre-existing conditions are covered, the unemployed, and people living in poverty along with their families can be ensured coverage. If private insurance carriers are forced to do that through strict controls and regulations, I’m all for it.
Still waiting for any takers from the conservatives out there. Tell me of ANY group advertising in the mass media against the Health Reform bill that is not receiving backing in one form or another from the health care, insurance or pharmaceutical industry.
I’m interested of hearing of any such group since it makes my point that most of the so called grass roots organization and their supporters doing this are ignorant tools of corporations and special interests looking out for their profits.
Nope, you didn’t call anything because it is obvious you are clueless to what I or Sen. Conrad has in mind. There will not be any strict controls and regulations of the nature you are probably hoping for but there just might be in all probability some very heavy stacking of the deck so to speak in the favor of Consumer Healthcare Cooperative Exchanges throughout the country which private insurance companies would have to compete with and depending on how healthcare insurance is reformed will determine how the deck gets stacked for Consumer Healthcare Cooperative Exchanges i.e. If the private insurance companies want to keep pre-existing, cherry picking and limiting coverage, then watch out, because Consumer Healthcare Cooperative Exchanges they will be empowered by favorable laws like you would not believe. After that there won’t be any need of strict controls and regulations on private insurers, they will literally be fighting just to survive begging people to take their services.
Palin was and is right. Under the one-payer system (socialized medicine) that Obama and his accomplices plan for us sooner or later, doctors will be working for the government, following government’s orders.
Who in the government? Obama’s Health Care Czar Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel? Dr. Emanuel (also called Dr. Death) has said that “Medical care should not be given to those who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens.”
If doctors report to Dr. Emanuel, they will have to refuse medical care to the elderly and the handicapped because they are “irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens.”
Obama and his Czars, including Science Czar John Holdren, seem to share Dr. Emanuel’s thinking. As a Senator, Obama voted in favor of abortion and infanticide (late-term abortion). And Science Czar John Holdren has called for population-control policies such as forced abortions, mass sterilizations, and mandatory population controls.
We DO NOT want Obama and his accomplices to “take care of us.”
Oh and by the way Chris, this non-sense about who has special interests representing them in this healthcare debate that is taking place, there is plenty of “Astor Turf” being manufactured on both sides, liberal and conservative.
Nope, you didn’t call anything because it is obvious you are clueless to what I or Sen. Conrad has in mind. There will not be any strict controls and regulations of the nature you are probably hoping for but there just might be in all probability some very heavy stacking of the deck so to speak in the favor of Consumer Healthcare Cooperative Exchanges throughout the country which private insurance companies would have to compete with and depending on how healthcare insurance is reformed will determine how the deck gets stacked for Consumer Healthcare Cooperative Exchanges i.e. If the private insurance companies want to keep pre-existing, cherry picking and limiting coverage, then watch out, because Consumer Healthcare Cooperative Exchanges they will be empowered by favorable laws like you would not believe. After that there won’t be any need of strict controls and regulations on private insurers, they will literally be fighting just to survive begging people to take their services.
CHRIS SAYS: And examples of where this has worked before?
“If what Obama wants in Health care ever gets passed….what do you think will happen when there are too few doctors to handle the load?”
This is the saddest argument of all. Isn’t it obvious what this terrible claim implies? Doesn’t it mean that we have a significant number of people in this country who do not have access to health care? Forget implications, this argument explicitly states that we can’t give these unfortunate people access to health care because doing so we may adversely affect those of us who now have access. How selfish! How can anyone use this as an argument against reform? What a profoundly callous argument this is.
Tucker seems unaware that Murkowski and Palin have a rocky history. Specificially, Murkowski cannot stand Palin, who pursued slash and burn politics against her fellow Republicans while campaigning for governor. And she defeated Murkowski’s father.
So the senator is not the most objective critic of the former governor, even though her specific criticism is right on.
Mr Salzmann, I salute you.
Conservative people, have any of you done any research into health care issues? Apparently not enough to have a rational, reason based argument to support your commitment to the current organized crime style of health care insurance. What is really coming through is an inarticulate rage at the fact that a black man is president, coupled with a paranoid notion that he might be looking for revenge on white people for the checkered history of race relations in America. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
And as an Alaskan, Palin is a liar, a crook, and a cartoon. And a quitter. But she’s entertaining as all get out, since Jackass is no longer on the air.
Those of you who would disagree with her statement need to do some homework on these bills and the people who are contributing to them before it is too late…….
Hey Chris,
I have never been politically active, registered independent and went to a few of these rallies. What I have seen is a group of DNC folks driven in by a bus from a different county with fancy preprinted signs and the next day a lady who said ACORN pays her 15 dollars an hour to hand out those signs. The “other” side had obviously home made signs and were in smaller groups. I talked to people and asked them questions. That’s the only reason I know. This is definitely a grass roots thing here in Oregon……
Anyone wants to know why the deficit is over $11,000,000,000,000.00? Bush’s tax cuts and the illegal war-for-profit in Iraq that we the taxpayers paid for over our objections! I didn’t see any of you intellectually lazy brats on the right complain about the cost of a war that Blackwater, Haliburton and KGR has profiteered from!
This is MY AMERICA and I WILL FIGHT THE RADICAL RIGHT! You right wingers have destroyed America long enough! And now you don’t like the fact that we are rebuilding America?
Gee I wonder if the Democrats will ever be called upon to repudiate the hateful comment of Olbermann, Maher and Tucker for their incessant and baseless accusations of racism.
Tucker is world class hypocrite and reading her tripe is a great reminder of why I cancelled this rag.
The objective of all private insurance companies is to collect as much money as possible and to pay out as little as possible. You don’t have to work in the insurance industry to know this, you just need to have a few brain cells and an Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield policy.
You only say that Palin did not talk about euthanasia in her Facebook post because — this is the only explanation unless you are just lying or trying to muddy the waters — you have no idea what the word means. In either of these three cases you do, however, show yourself to be a typical Palin supporter.
Obama needs to resign now before he drags us all down which may be his purpose. I do not trust this man as far as I can throw him. The thugs he has surrounded himself with should have all Americans scard to death.
What a joke. Is detaining these detainees indefinitely in Standish some type of moral improvement to storing them at Gitmo?
Does the current prison “damage our standing in the world” because of its geographical location? Nonsense.
Where the detainees are housed is irrelevant. This whole argument is a re-arranging of the deck chairs and of course Tucker being the good partisan she is, reflexively jumps to support it.
Tell us Cynthia, how will moving these guys to Standish improve our standing in the world?
Also, can you tell us what is being done with detainees these days? Has Obama stopped going after these guys? Is he just having them killed? Is he housing them indefinitely at Bagram? Please tell us about the new “more humane” detention policies.
Ms. Tucker – You deserve some kind of medal. How do you put up with the AJC readership day in and day out? I am a resident of N. Fulton – and I can barely stand to click through any AJC story these days. It’s toxic.
I just hope this doesn’t represent the actual average views and intellect of the ATL metro area populous – just the dittoheads who barage the internet with their views they would never dare to speak out loud to their co-workers. These sociopaths sit there all p***** off in their cubicles “venting” their frustrations on ajc.com for their own miserable lives and failures, blaming Obama and anyone who supports him.
Thank God – the backlash has begun.
What will these pathetic losers whine about when the economy turns back around? Back to the go-to scare tactics – gay marriage and abortion, I suppose.
Where they are confined is relevant. The name “Gitmo” id disturbing to a large number of people worldwide. We need to lessen tensions, not perpetuate them.
I’m just echoing the thoughts of others here, but what Palin has been saying is not a “Lie.” It only makes sense, I don’t understand the rejection of simple truth. If you argue that she’s dumb, then you must accept that her political peers and journalists are outright brain dead.
Unless Obama is promising to pay for “EVERYTHING” (he hasn’t given a speach YET about not offering everything, but we can agree that this is implicit), which would bankrupt the society if not be simply impossible, then somebody somewhere in government needs to determine who gets what healthcare. Therefore, somebody somewhere is also determining who cannot get certain healthcare. If that person or panel (we do love our committees) decides against you then yes, as far as you are concerned, it is a death panel. You may not die, but if they reject a procedure that could allow you to live life to its fullest, then they are bringing you one step closer to death.
So interesting to read these comments. I’ve seen the same rhetoric over and over from the anti-Obama people, but no response to Chris Salzman’s plea for a working health care proposal. I don’t believe the anti-Obama people have a plan beyond shouting “socialism!” or “death panels!”
As has been pointed out ad nauseum, many people already have no insurance and the rest of us have insurance whose bureaucrats tell us whom we can and cannot see and what they will and will not pay for. We wait hours in waiting rooms and weeks, even months for appointments. Hundreds of thousands of people choose between food or medications, rent or doctor’s bills, and medical debt is one of the main reasons for indiviudal bankruptcy. Hell yes, we need reform. Who in their right mind would think otherwise?
PALIN, DIDN’T YOU SAY YOU WILL NOT BE INVOLVED WITH POLITICS NO MORE? WHY ARE YOU CONCERNING ABOUT POLITICS? STILL WANT TO BE FUTURE PRESIDENT? STILL WANT PUBLIC TO REMEMBER YOUR FACE AND WILL VOTE FOR YOU WHEN RUNNING FOR A NEXT PRESIDENCIAL? YOU ARE SUCH A MASTER DEVIL PLANNER………. LIKE I HAVE SAID BEFORE.. YOU SUKKKKKKKKK….. GO AWAY..SHOO…SHOO…SHOOOTTTTTT………
another in a long line of pathetic attempts of cynthia to try to protect her savior, barack. hey cynthia, it aint the dems or the repubs that are keeping the people at Gitmo, its the spineless non-leader you elected into office. he has the power to do a lot of things but can only do something if it is popular. sorry to say, but being president isnt about doing what is popular, thats easy. being president is about making tough decisions that may anger your own party. bush wasnt a leader, he didnt do anything that would anger the repubs…and barack is the same way.
quit trying to make excuses for this mistake of a president.
The really scary part is that some northern industrial wasteland wants people so that “their prison doesn’t shut down”.
Is that a “cherished American principle”.??
Cynthia Tucker, where is your empathy for the world’s largest incarcerated population.? You should at least give the same publicity to these incarcerated Americans because they are disproportionally minorities and the majority of these minorities committed no violent crime.
The only reason Obama et.al…are unhappy about Guantanamo is because some Yemeni Prince’s son is being held there.
And this Prince is paying some NY lawyer a bunch of cash to get him released. They figure if they can generate enough negative publicity amongst the american media and public… that oughta do the trick…
Thats why I always say…. stand for something… or fall for anything.
Now I see why she hadn’t taken comments in the past. All these so-call ‘tough American Patriots’ are running scared. The Unabomber is in an American prison, and hasn’t escaped. I believe the point of bringing them here was to conduct trials or tribunals to release the innocent ones to countries that will take them, and put the rest in prison. You tough guys are so quick to start wars, but don’t want to except the consequences of it. Rather house the prisoners in Cuba. A bunch of Chuck Norris’ you all are. lol.
Sheila Jackson Lee, Democrat congresswoman from Houston, talks on her cell phone while a constituent is making a statement during her town hall. Debbie Stabenow, Democrat Senator from Michigan says that “climate change is very real” because she can “feel it when I’m flying. The storms are more volatile. We are paying the price in more hurricanes and tornadoes.”
And these folks are our “leaders” making policy decisions. Makes one wonder about the intellect of their voters…
Go back to whatever 3rd world country you came from Algonquin J. Calhoun…you and SARA probably hitched a ride over here together in hopes for a “better life”…no wonder your sucking up all of our tax money !
Thought really hard about it as I could get the $4500 and improve my gas mileage by at least 7 MPG. The $4500 would be over twice what I could get selling it or trading it in using a conventional trade-in. However, I like not having a car payment, my “clunker” has less than 90K miles on it and it is 10 years old – so it is just fine except for some minor maintenance and that it is ugly (from unrepaired hail damage dents). I also didn’t want to triple my ad valorem taxes on a vehicle for the next few years. Bottom line was that I really wasn’t going to save that much in the short term and I’m counting on vehicles getting a lot better gas mileage by the time I’m really ready for a new vehicle – and maybe ad valorem will be “fixed”, too.
I see the reich-wing propagandists are out early today.
On topic, I don’t see how the “cash-for-clunkers” program does anything long-term beneficial, either for the environment or the economy. It is a “feel good” program only. The best thing congress could do is slap a huge tax on gas-guzzlers so that Hummer and V-10 behemoth have far less of an incentive. The current gas-guzzler tax is a joke, especially with the tax loophole that still allows a huge tax deduction for buying a monster SUV or truck for some people.
What I can’t figure out is all these so-called Americans, who want to treat murderous, and terrorists, as victims, even if they kill hundreds of innocent people, when these clowns are killing American soldiers, in A WAR, and get caught, they have to be treated with kids glove, because, if treated any other way violation of cherished American principles.
In what fantasy world, are these reporters living in.
War, is not a picnic, stop protecting and feeling sorry for these killer,
they are animals, their soul purpose in this world is to kill American, or anyone else who gets in their way.
If we keep babying these things that imitated a human being, they will be knocking, or should say breaking into your house someday, and lets see how sorry you’ll feel.
The definition of socialism is more than ideology embracing state-run industry, production and businesses. When Obama first came into office, gov’t spending accounted for 33% of GDP. After his stimulus, it jumped to 39%. If health care passes, it will be 45% and if Cap & Trade (aka Cap & Tax) passes, it will be 50%! Ok, so to put that into perspective: Great Britain is at 42%, Germany 47% and France 52%. Why do libs get so offended when people call this what it is: it’s socialism. So what? This Cynthia Tucker is just another liberal making fun of our seniors for not wanting the gov’t to grow any more than it already has. It doesn’t make “grandma” a socialist for using a gov’t program.
Cynthia, you say that Guantanamo, “The facility stands in violation of cherished American principles.” Say what Cynthia? Do mean the white peoples “cherished principals”? You have never given this country credit for anything? Now it’s CHERISHED by you. You are really a peace of crap. The AJC should be done with you altogether.
Customers are not capable of trading in “high-mileage vehicles for just-slightly-lower-mileage Hummers and pick-up trucks.” Under the guidelines of the program, depending the new vehicle must get at least 2 mpg better than the vehicle being traded in.
And relative to the question about who buy’s Hummer, they’re typically highly educated with a high household income. They recognize that Hummer models get the same fuel economy as other trucks and SUVs on the road.
Cash for clunkers – my info is that both Republican & Democratic congressmen from districts with auto factories came up with this idea.
White House did not like & sent Emanuel to kill the bill. Emanuel delayed & by the time he got to the House there were a bunch of co-signers. The bill was for $4 billion. Emanuel talked them into just $1 billion thinking that no one would be buying autos anyway.
reservoirDAWG — I’m not the sensitive, shrinking violet type. I couldn’t have survived the opinion-writing dodge this long if I were. I celebrate the First Amendment. But I do hope you have more to contribute than vulgarity. Your momma would be disappointed in you, I’ll sure.
““For the approximately 600 detainees held in the US air base in Bagram in Afghanistan, the change in US administration has likewise meant little or no change in their situation. Detainees held in the base still have no access to judicial review and no access to legal counsel, with the administration continuing to apply a global “war” legal paradigm and resisting access to the US courts even for those who have been held for years after being arrested as far away from Afghanistan as Thailand and United Arab Emirates.”
Do you think Cynthia is unaware of what is going on at Bagram? Or is she consciously adopting a hypocritical stance for partisan reasons?
I have never udnerstood why Gtmo has such a bad rap as a prison. The detainees get better treatment, better food, and much better working conditions than sailors did when it was a training base for ships in refresher training or on shakedown cruises.
I’m not sure what the point of the move is…seems mostly for publicity. Does Cynthia honsetly think moving these war prisoners will change any terrorist mind?
Moving them seems similar an old army punishment of moving a sandpile from one location to another. Nothing is accomplished other than tiring the person responsible for moving the pile.
There are plenty of “lies” & false information being spread by all parties Democrat, Republic, Political Commentators(like Ms. Tucker) Talking heads on TV, etc. What we are NOT getting is the truth so that we the public can help make an informed decision on the issue as critical as health care. So we will end up with a plan put together by a group of people ( Democrats&Republicans) who are only interested in satisfying enough people to keep being elected year after year.
AND PLEASE STOP lumping all people 65 & over as being “overjoyed” at being on Medicare. A large number of were forced to go Medicare at 65 with no choice allowed. Many of us would have been more that happy to stay with our private insurance even at an increased cost.
I’ve got a guzzler, but have to have it to haul with. I’d love to have a high-mileage vehicle for other driving, though. But, right now, I cannot afford it … because I need to keep the guzzler.
If the Gitmo prisoners are housed in a general prison population somewhere in the USA, what are the chances that they would survive very long? Prisons have the gangs that don’t really care about the terrorists from Gitmo. If the Gitmo prisoners are sent to the Standish prison, would Obama take away the guns that the Standish city manager is referencing?
Well Cynthia, put your money where your mouth is, since you claim that they have done no wrong, tell Obozo that you would be happy to host them at your house. Problem solved.
Doesn’t make you wonder if these are really bad guys? Their own countries won’t even take them back. But don’t worry liberal logic will give them a home. Liberal, and logic in the same sentence, that’s a mistake.
Cynthia, I think you better stick to commentary without a blog. Hardly anyone agrees with you and you seem to bring out the worst evern in good people. You and Michelle finally got to love this country.
I’m disappointed that the program even allows for pick-up trucks and hummers to be purchased. If that’s the case, the program is a joke. Trading in an old car for one that gets 2 mpg less (based on the auto companies mpg data, which is suspect to begin with) is a teeny, tiny band aid on co2 emissions. And kudos to Cynthia for her reply to reservoirDAWG. I wouldn’t have wasted my time.
These poor innocent terrorist, who go to all those bad prisons, and are treated better than in their home country, how about an American solder who become a prisoner in their hands of these innocent terrorist, who will dismember them, and cut them up and throw the body pieces in a river, and keep the head to play with.
I don’t hear these two face, journalists accusing the terrorist of doing anything bad at all.
There is nothing wrong with the prison in Gitmo, already housing these parasite, why bring them here, we have enough trash in this country and enough Anti-America, organization that go by all various names.
American people need to wake-up, and stop letting the other side take over. Has nothing to do that you’re a republican or a democrat.
Stop, being a hypocrite, and complaint about your country, the only thing that’s wrong in America, are the liars, distorted, and small mined, who never can find anything good about America.
Whew! I feel so much better about health care since Oh Holy Knight and Axelgrease are sending out emails that explain the health care stuff. I can slip back into the bliss abyss and take comfort that I will have this gift that is going to just make my life so wonderful.
We thank thee Obama for this government health care that we are about to receive and bless it to the nourishment of our bodies. Take every day our daily bread and distribute it back unto us as you see fit. Amen!
Now… could someone please pass me the end of life counseling? I need a little on my potatoes.
The point that interests me is the statement quoted by Ms. Tucker about them having guns and being hunters. Based on MANY previous columns she has written she is very supportive of ANY gun control bill to get the guns out of the hands of citizens.
Why, then, does Ms. Tucker find that quote relevant to the story, as these sorts of folks who “cling to their guns and religion” are the sort of people she thinks are ruining America. Is it fair to send the detainees to such a backward place full of ignorant, hillbillies (they aren’t rednecks up north)?
I agree with the person that said Cynthia was only concerned about her own job. She HAS to write articles that “go against the grain” to get attention. More readers equal more job security.
Cynthia, don’t take “ReservoirDAWG” personally – or seriously.
He hates anyone slightly left of Mussolini. And his charming manners are always on display.
Ask Jay, his favorite target.
I am astonished at the vitriol in these posts. All Ms. Tucker did in this column was report on the plan to move the prisoners to a supermax prison. I think I sense some good, old Georgia racism here.
I would like to see how a small car would tow a 4000 lb ski boat, with 2 kids, and large dog to the lake each weekend. An intelligent buyer would do research and understand that any of the Hummer line of vehicles (H2, H3, H3T) get very comparable mpg as vehicles in their class. There are reasons some people can afford to own a Hummer. There are reasons people need govt to help hold their hand too.
AJC, please close your comments section or I will stop reading this paper. With the internet, I don’t need you anymore. These comments are completely inappropriate and offensice. You are giving sociopaths a platform to speak.
Feel good is right………What about all the independent small repair shops that serviced those clunkers? Those small businesses have been hung out to dry by this program,
Once again the Obama Adminstration shows they are not the friend of small businesses, they campaigned to be before the election.
The problem with Idealogues like Obama, is that what ever they accomplish will never be enough. They will continue until you live the life they want you to live, while they live the lives everyone dreams of. Essentially a different set of rules for them then what they legislate for you.
Not the “change” most envisioned in the voting booth. Though many dare not admit this truth.
Those that buy into this program are fools. Do the math- Trade a no car note, $30 a month insurance and a $20 a year tag car for a $200+ car note, $80 a month insurance and $300 a year tag. P. T. Barnum said it best- “A fool and his money are soon parted”.
OK, look at the long term ramifications of this program. If the clunkers that were traded in were all driveable, tagged, and insured for the last year as required that means they all passed emissions test. Tell me how long will it be before the cars that were bought under this program will begin to help reduce overall emissions and polution. The engine produce large amounts of smoke before they finally die. Then the crushers run on diesel fuel and produce lots of black smoke while doing the crushing. Then the trucks hauling the dead carcuses to the recycling location use more fuel. Then there’s more fuel consumed in shipping the scrap to China or somewhere else. Then there is more energy used in manufacturing new cars that replace the clunkers, and it goes on and on. This administration that is in place never seems to think of the long term effects of the programs that they shove on the American people. To scrap thousands of perfectly good cars is just ludicris.
People discuss this all the time, I just do not need a gov health plan that states this should be done every five years with me and my doctor.
And do doctors really want to counsel people on living wills ?
Under any of these 4 Bills there will be, there has to be, Committees or Boards, or if you will, Panels that review all aspects of medical care. These Federal employees will make decisions about who gets what when and how. This is unavoidable.
I choose to not be at the mercy of some Federal Board set up like the IRS or worse the Postal Service. Thank you.
We can, Ms. Tucker but our government can’t, and we should never allow government anywhere near this area. That includes making mandates as to what WE SHALL discuss as determined under HR 3200 Sec. 1233.
‘‘Advance Care Planning Consultation
‘‘(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the
term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a con
sultation between the individual and a practitioner de
scribed in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning,
if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has
not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
consultation “shall” include the following:
I’ve noticed that you and Mr. Bookman avoid the House version in favor of using what Senator Isakson offered in the Senate’s version, where the wording is very different.
From Senator Isakson:
Isakson vehemently opposes the House and Senate health care bills and he played no role in drafting language added to the House bill by House Democrats calling for the government to incentivize doctors by offering them money to conduct “end-of-life counseling” with Medicare patients every five years. Isakson also strongly opposed the House bill language calling for doctors to follow a government-mandated list of topics to discuss with patients during the counseling sessions.
By contrast, Isakson took a very different approach in July during the Senate HELP Committee hearings on the Senate version of the health care bill. Isakson’s amendment to the Senate bill says that anyone who participates in the long-term care benefit provided in the bill – if they so choose – may use that benefit to obtain assistance in formulating their own living will and durable power of attorney.
If they are white republicans, they not only should be required a consultation about dying but should be actively encouraged to consider that as an option.If they are white republicans from the South, they should be required to have this done.
I agree. Government certainly shouldn’t be in the business of requiring people to consider their
end-of-life options with their doctor (and wouldn’t be under this bill – it’s not mandated). Nor should government have to take on the job of explaining to kids that sexual intercourse has life-altering consequences, like pregnancy, disease, even death.
But here’s why government gets stuck having to do these things, and yes, on “your dime:”
Because too many of YOU (my apologies if you’re not one of them) simply refuse to have any difficult, painful or embarrassing discussions with loved ones on these topics -
and the consequences run up tabs of MILLIONS of dollars – costs paid by the taxpayers!
All over America, in hospitals, nursing homes and rehab centers, dying people lie helplessly by while their spouses, siblings and offspring battle tooth and nail over what’s to happen to Mom, with Mom unable to voice her wishes in the debate – and as expensive machines, treatments and interventions prolong her life at the cost of thousands per day. If Mom had expressed her desire to fight on, even with terminal pain, to prolong her days and said so in writing, spending those dollars would be a no-brainer. If she can’t express her wishes, continuing treatment is distasteful when it prolongs pain, but still perhaps the safer ethical default. But why can’t we say to the public, “You won’t discuss this issue? Well, fine – but every 5 years, your doctor’s going to remind you that counseling is important and available.”
Same with actual sex education – not the abstinence-only fantasies we’re wasting money on now. Parents just aren’t doing their job at teaching it at home – and God forbid we let schools tell hormone-crazed teens that putting a piece of latex between male and female genitalia might actually keep them from destroying their lives and futures. I guess it’s more “moral” to just keep mass-producing tots without pops, shelling out the Aid to Dependent Families, and raise taxes to build more prisons.
It’s crazy to see the mouth-breathers getting their panties into a twist on this “death panel” nonsense. Wake up, whack-jobs: right now, your insurance company is having real “death panels” every day that condemn people to premature death by refusing cancer treatments, transplants and other necessary procedures. But if you’re a good Repub, guess it’s insurance “death panel” = good, government counseling = bad.
This isn’t about logic – it’s about an industry determined to win at any cost.
Isn’t it ironic that the original end-of-life counseling proposal came from a Republican, Johnny Isakson. But, of course, once the concept becomes part of any proposed health care reform by Democrats, it’s no longer a good idea and it’s twisted into a “death panel.”
I wish my mother’s doctor would talk to her about end of life issues and her wishes. I have a very hard time broaching the subject.
And, also, in our culture where so many people remain unmarried and childless, they may not even have a family member to discuss these issues with.
Yes Pat, YOU certainly could exclude ME from one of those, who as YOU say, have never faced making the very, very, very, difficult decisions.
Given the imperfections of human beings there are no perfect answers, Pat. Given the imperfections in government, combined with the powers government, as history has shown allowing government anywhere near end of life area has resulted in the most horrid events imaginable. This is a slippery slope we should never allow government to step upon, not even the suggestion of taking the first one in that direction which HR 3200 Sec 1233 does.
Think of people like Jack, then think of Germany Pat.
Perhaps YOU are willing to risk to that chance to save a few taxpayer bucks. I will stand with the Jews and say, never again!
I think anyone using this program should trade their fuel efficient vehicle in for a bicycle and a bus pass. And I get to keep my $4,500 worth of taxes!
I agree that the end of life discussions between a patient, doctor & the patients family is not an item that the taxpayer needs to fund.
This is none of the governments business, any government.
My father-in-law is 95 & dying very slowly. The family had a very long discussion with his doctor. The doctor never billed for the time he spent counseling us. Very few will.
Citizen of the World.
“And, also, in our culture where so many people remain unmarried and childless, they may not even have a family member to discuss these issues with.”
———–
Excellent point and entirely correct. I know several people who fit into this category including family members. I still say discussion
can take place with the doctor, minister or anyone in whom you have confidence. I just do not believe that this is something the taxpayer
should fund. As a society, we just cannot continue to rely on government as the savior of all our problems.
I guess you & I will continue to “agree to disagree”.
Funny thing is the GOP, Blue Dogs and their lobbyist supporters have no problem with insurance death panels. They aught to talk to Nataline Sarkisyan’s family
Did you ever stop to realize that the color of their skin makes absolutely no difference in the debate. The reason why black people, in large part, do not show up at these debates is that this would dis their wonder boy and we can’t have that, now can we? For the most part, these people are not plants. They are concerned citizens, not “brown shirt Nazis”, as Howard Dean called them. They don’t trust the system and the people who are running it, plain and simple. They have every right to yell, scream, rant and jump up and down if they want to. It’s call free speech, or maybe you haven’t heard of that.
What really gets me about the whole “death panel to kill Grandma & Down Syndrome children”, is they are easy sound bites that are out and out LIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Perhaps that it of itself explains why the GOP has almost total failed to start any argument against these bills with any dispute of substance, let alone presented a plan of their own. Perhaps salacious gossip and lies are all it takes to get a certain portion of the electorate riles up. They certainly don’t require that any one read any portion of the proposed legislation let alone do any research.
Then don’t, Denny. Pay for private health insurance and do what you want. As for me, I favor a healthcare plan like those in the other Western democracies. Sure, it’ll cut down the obscene profits of the drug companies and other healthcare-related companies to reasonable profits. But, most importantly, it’ll save citizens money and ensure their quality care, so matter where they stand financially at the moment they need it. A person I know had a major health emergency in Australia and he entire bill was less than $5,000, when it would have been tens of thousands of dollars here. And, don’t talk about rationed care. The NHS in Britain gives people the care they need. Insurance companies here work very hard to deny any claim they can. And, they are constantly changing codes, wording, etc. to be able to deny or delay paying claims over improperly filled out paperwork. Bring on a U.S. NHS.
1994 4runner 3.0 V6 for a 2009 Hummer H3 with the Adventure package. Hummer gets 3-5 MPG better than the Toyota and kills my beloved ‘yota off road.
No joke, the ‘yota got solid 15 MPG pretty much all the time. I little less around town, a little more on the freeway if you kept it at 65. The darn Hummer gets 20 MPG at 65 MPH, tows more, and can tackle much harder trains. I love to wheel it.
“They are concerned citizens, not “brown shirt Nazis”, as Howard Dean called them. They don’t trust the system and the people who are running it, plain and simple.”
Yes, and they are also willfully uninformed and responding to the manipulation of the right-wing crazies. Sad.
It does make a difference when you are trying to present these folks as representative of America. Not that none of them aren’t GOP/corporate lobbyists plants who have more of a disagreement with the fact that President Obama is a black man, but they certainly aren’t your average-concerned, up on the fatcs, issue voter.
There are more of the non-homgenoues white persons in this country than there are white folks and I say this as a white person.
Well, it seems to me that if the government is going to provide taxpayer-funded Medicare to seniors, then it’s not much of an overreach for the government to require and pay for some counseling for end-of-life issues — especially with the mixed blessing of modern medicine, which often prolongs suffering and dying as much as it prolongs life.
This requirement would ensure that senior citizens have communicated their wishes to their caregivers and, even though the government has paid for it, actually save taxpayer money in the long run.
Good Point Donnie. The healthcare system is broken. It is funny to me how critical we can become of change especially when the current healthcare system is ALL about profit. We should be outraged at the current healthcare system. How do we so blindly trust the current healthcare system when the only time they will make a profit is when we are sick? And, I am absolutely tired of insurance companies who collect insurance premiums and then deny claims to pre-existing conditions, especially when it is the SAME insurance company just because you change employment! A change is needed. We may not agree on how to go about doing it. However, we need to have a civil discussion about it. No one hears you when you are being rude, disrepectful, and nasty.
If folks would quit buying lotto, cigarettes & beer, they’d have enough money to buy their own health insurance: they wouldn’t have to depend on employers or the government.
Loveyliz is prejudiced. The left cannot stand taht this is not what Americans want. Kayaker71 is correct. There is nothing about skin color in the debate about not wanting the government to control healthcare. Obama lied. He said he favored a single payer system and then later said he did not say he favored a single payer system. He flat out lied. Now I am a corporate brown shirt terrorist for reporting his lie.
What kind of country is this becoming when the White House sets up a site for the public to report others who are giving “scary stories” about healthcare reform. When I was in China, this is what I heard about Mao. Children would turn in their parents for any comment against the supreme leader and then the Parents would be sent to camp during the Cultural Revolution for re-education.
I don’t trust the insurance companies, Angie. I don’t trust the government or drug companies or trial lawyers or these crummy unions that are getting involved and I don’t want the PUBLIC OPTION. I prefer the consumer mutual healthcare non-profit insurance cooperatives now being developed by a bipartisan group of six Senators, which Senator Conrad is mainly advocating. It will take government out of the equation and take other things like end of life, abortion, drug rehab and a host of other things many people object to being forced through their tax dollars to pay for which will be the case under any government ran system.
When it comes to trust Angie, Ludlow Porch, gave the best advice anyone could ever use: Trust nobody but your mama, and you best keep one eye on her.
Speaking of death counseling, has the liberal AJC received death counseling as it is dying a slow death from the once great paper to the rag it is now. It now resembles the Great Speckled Bird in the print size and thickness and has opinions and reporting dominated by the tree hugging looney left such as Tucker and Bookman. I would be remiss if I failed to include the poison pen scribblingss of cartoon boy – Looneyvitch. What a shame that it has come to this. The Journal was a great paper in its day and then lost its identity when the kooks took over and distorted the news.
Oh well thank goodness for other sources of information and the laughter I get from reading these silly opinion pages.
Yes, my wife’s H3 is very consistant with getting between 19-20 mpg. Even hit 19 mpg packed full with cargo carrier on top. Safe to say, I’ve been pretty impressed with it towing, and in the snow. Plus if you do some cost of ownership research, you will find it gets a very low cost of ownership rating of “excellent”. We saved tons of money buying the H3 when gas was $4. Again, I did research, and ignored the media hype.
When the Americans with Disability Act was passed in 1990, the provision to include those who were HIV positive became a political hot potato that no one wanted to confront. It was shunned by most legislators and only included because no one wanted to vote against it for fear of being politically incorrect and being call homophobes. Being HIV positive or having contracted AIDS is no more disabling than someone with compromised heart disease or poorly controlled diabetes. But our lawmakers were afraid to confront this dilemma because of loosing the gay vote and being called names. What is to say that in the future, the same thing could not happen with changes in the health care bill that make it more “accommodating”. We just do not trust these elected officials to represent our interests… they are too busy representing their own. The health care debate goes much deeper than just this one issue. America is dissatisfied with having government intrude into their lives and make decisions for them that they are very capable of making themselves…. and we simply do not trust them, none of them.
We can talk about it…. but when the government gets involved thats when we get on that slippery slope that soon turns it into euthenasia.
I don’t wanna find myself in that position like the lady in Oregon who was told she couldn’t get any more medicine for her condition but was offered free pills for her death.
It seems to be the same right wingers who demonstrated concerning Terry Schiavo who also seem to be complaining and protesting the most.
Living wills should be re-evaluated periodically. Situations change, surrogates need to be re-valuated and a persons attitude and beliefs change.
I also don’t understand the fear of government also in the insurance business with private companies. Conservatives claim the government is inefficient, then government won’t be able to compete with private enterprise. However, look at fed Ex and UPS. Then compare them to the Post Office. Crying out loud, why fear the government. Medicare works fine if the politicians wouldn’t raid SS and Medicare funds.
Ever notice how right-wingers who want to claim inclusion bristle at the mere identification of the lack of diversity? Or in this case the almost total lack of diversity coming from those arguing the case most violently?
Guess I’ve been kicked out of the notorious right wing. I raised hell over the GOP getting involved in the Terry Schiavo case. The plan I support on healthcare would be far more inclusive than anything now offered in any of those Public Option plans and would accommodate the plurality of this nation with the least amount of divisiveness.
I can buy a claw hammer for less than $7, government has been known to spend a hundred times that amount for a claw hammer, I should trust government?
It was so good of the President to use the postal service to promote his Public Option.
Not exactly what most would call a cost efficiency success stories.
Of course those stories are not quite as good as the claim he used that the AARP endorsed his Public Option but close.
Oh and did any on the left see the “union muscle” that has been brought into these debates? Just saying…
Hey old farts against universal healthcare, I don’t see you lining up to cancel your govt. provided medicare, not one peep when G.W. was pushing thru Part D. or sending our troops to fight for oil-compassionate conservatism means I got mine turn of the faucet. Please do us all a favor and off yourselves…..
Excuse me if I want to continue my life and it “cost” to do so . . . so be it! I’ve lived my life and and for many years paid for health care when I had none and paid for health care even when I had health insurance (the premiums, the deductibles, the co-insurance, the co-pays and the non-covered). I’ve paid for health care for others through my taxes (i.e., Medicaid, Medicare, Medicare Disability, SSI, etc.) and for all those uninsured who go to the ER. To provide in federal legislation for end-of-life counseling is absurd. Most doctors tell patients and family members what their options are already. There is absolutely no need nor any place for provisions in a federal legislation for this. And, I and my family members should determine if and when we need to confer with our doctor in this regard. My life is as valuable as anyone else’s. Anyway for are seniors the only ones who targeted in this regard . . . why would this counseling not be available to younger people who are terminally ill. It is because there are those who want to eliminate the senior population who by the way pay a great portion of taxes. So, if seniors are eliminated I guess those young . . sit-on-thier butts would have to get out and go to work!
This is getting all too depressing. I can’t even get into the old farts club. Too young for Medicare, I support non-government owned, controlled and administered universal healthcare for every U.S. citizen and tried to get Georgia’s Senators at the time shortly before Part D was passed to vote against it becoming law, though, admitting I’d likely be one who would probably need it eventually. Shucks I don’t even have a lousy oil-compassion!
What an Obumer.
Ah but there is still hope if the Senate six can get sound reason to prevail on non-government consumer non-profit mutual healthcare insurance cooperatives; perhaps I’ll never need Medicare or part D. That would be nice not to put all those entitlement debts onto the backs generations of Americans.
OMG, Rev. Al Sharpton and Republican former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, to push cities to fix failing schools. The dignity of discuss has set a new record. Hopefully it will not require a mandated end of life consultation.
From the AP…
“I think that he has it exactly right, that education has to be the No. 1 civil right of the 21st century and I’ve been passionate about reforming education,” Gingrich said. “And we can’t get it done as a partisan issue.”
Sharpton said the time has come to “change the conversation … to say we need to put everybody’s hands on the table.”
He said he believes that “if there’s anything Americans should be mature enough about to have a decent conversation, it’s the education of their children.”
~
Amazing how in America, ordinary people do the most extraordinary things.
Funny how the right wing that so often demands that abortion providers “shall be required” to talk about all sorts of things before they can actually do what the patient came in for suddenly doesn’t want health care providers to do the SAME THING – talk about *options* without leaving out the ones that are uncomfortable to talk about. If the argument is that the government shouldn’t place guidelines on what a doctor needs to tell a patient, I will be eagerly looking for all of these people to back off their bills requiring just that.
The argument for most on the right is no government Public Option, period. All the opposition to side issues written therein remain basically the same: No government funded abortion and no government imposed euthanasia.
Oops forgot one…. no healthcare for illegal aliens.
The left wing remains looking eagerly disingenuous and equally disappointed.
1) Asked whether he would have handled his verbal confrontation in Douglasville differently, [David] Scott is quick to answer. “Absolutely not,” he said.
2) the video of Sheila Jackson-Lee’s interview with Greta Van Susternen.
Both support the public’s view of the dems as arrogant and pompous. Who do these people think they work for????
Remember the 2003 Medicare prescription drug bill, the one that passed with the votes of 204 GOP House members and 42 GOP Senators? Anyone want to guess what it provided funding for? Did you say counseling for end-of-life issues and care? Ding ding ding!!
So either Republicans were for death panels in 2003 before turning against them now–or they’re lying about end-of-life counseling in order to frighten the bejeezus out of their fellow citizens and defeat health reform by any means necessary. Which is it?
You can’t please everyone, but you do have to determine what the MAJORITY would like. I am not for this healthcare plan. I would agree though, that there should be changes to the system. The largest concern for me about this debate is CHOICE. I want a choice. I want the FREEDOM to choose what healthcare I need. Do you consider that selfish? Maybe, but at what point do you have to concern yourself with what everybody else needs? I think the problem starts at the top. First of all Obama is ramrodding this thing to get it passed. People do not have a clear view of what this bill entails. Why can’t the government be consistent? Why can’t they all be on the same page? Our representatives cannot answer the questions presented to them – and if they do, they give their interpretations. If Obama wants this thing to come to light, he has to be completely open on the subject. They have to CONVINCE the American people that this is a good thing. Evidenced by the town hall meetings, they are not doing it. Come on Obama, gather everyone up. Get them together on the key issues. Present it to the people. Don’t try to hide any facts about your proposal and SELL us on your idea. You need to figure out if the people want this. You need to figure out if this really is a good thing for our people? In current proposal, I would vote NO.
Wouldn’t it have been smarter to have our representatives have Town Hall meetings before a bill was written up? Wouldn’t it have been smarter to ask us – the American people, the ones that pay for this government to operate, what we thought? Ask us what our concerns about healthcare are and what we would like to see changed. Gather the data and gives us a bill that reflects our needs?
It’s all just a big friggen, disgusting mess. More of the same from these idiots – both sides of the aisle.
I’m all for euthanasia for senior citizens. Next time the old farts want to start a war for oil-lets send them to blow up babies. The oldest generation needs to go-they have done enough damage in the name of God, Country, and Religion. We could bury them in their Lincoln Town Cars, think of the savings. Geezers and Clunkers begone.
Can you say…. Ding Dong! Ding Dong! Where is the government mandate in the 2003 Medicare prescription drug bill that would impose end of life counseling parallel to what is found in HR 3200 Sec. 1233?
Is Obamacare about reform or is it really about the government taking over health care? Obama has taken over the auto industry, banking, and housing and now he wants health care. What’s after that, grocery stores? Why not just abolish private ownership of everything in one swoop.
Those who want to can discuss dying with dignity. It should not be amajor tenet of the proposed national health care program. There are much more important facets to be addressed.
Nice try distancing CTucker AJC….you still suck and no one will buy your rag…you still have an Obamite pretending to run the show….AJC is irrelevant and I hope it is replaced by a real paper…
Let us simplify things for the President and the Democrats over this end of life consultation provision: Remove the mandate found in HR 3200 Sec. 1233 and there no longer be a reason or rhyme to oppose end of life consultations being offered pursuant to the individual’s free choosing.
Let us simplify things for the President and the Democrats over this end of life consultation provision: Remove the mandate found in HR 3200 Sec. 1233 and there no longer be a reason or rhyme to oppose end of life consultations being offered pursuant to the individual’s free choosing.
“Advance Care Planning Consultation
‘‘(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the
term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a con
sultation between the individual and a practitioner de
scribed in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning,
if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has
not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
consultation “shall”“MAY” include the following:
There you have it Ms. Tucker, now you or anyone else can talk however long, as dignified or indignant as anyone “MAY” prefer, on any decisions concerning the end of life – Controversy over on end of life.
However, beyond the present scope of this blog topic remains a great deal of controversy in resolving the two fundamental parts of what should be the national healthcare system of our country. The first part is healthcare insurance reform. The second part is reforming the entire healthcare system. The plan Mr. Obama and the Democrats offer fails miserably in achieving that goal, even in so much as another acceptable imperfect government plan.
Presently government owns controls and administers outright Medicare, TRICARE, Medicaid and SCHIP. The only remaining part of healthcare government does not own, control and administers outright is the healthcare of the remaining general population. Like it or not Ms. Tucker for all practical intents and purposes we already have a socialized healthcare system. Should any such Public Option or single payer system or called by any other name government healthcare program be enacted into law, all doubts shall be removed: Healthcare in American will be in the domain of SOCIALISM and as a consequence solely germane to the government.
Considering that she died a horrible and brutal death, prolonged for political purposes by the liberals, of course, I can’t blame you for hoping that you avoid a personal demise such as that.
Seems as though I remember you having no issues with wishing it on her, though.
But the big question is, what business is it of yours or the federal government to usher people along to the afterlife?
There are those that fight for life. And there are those who fight for death.
I’m utterly baffled at people’s attitudes. This new health measure says you CAN have death counseling every 5 years, not that you MUST. And NO ONE is going to tell you if, when, or how you must die. Can’t folks read? Please read the bill before believing what the republican scare machine says.
lovelyliz at 10:45am August 14 — I’m glad that I am not the only one who noticed how singularly caucasian these protesters/plants are.
Can it be that the generational government dependent leeches do not attend because it would be counter to their entitlement way of thinking (giving them credit for thinking). They have more important things to do — like get another cell, plasma, or Escalade; or perhaps pop out another child by yet another different man…
You could not be more right and wrong at the same time. The key is that you chose to designate your brother to make those difficult decisions about your life, not the government. Therein lies the key difference! Don’t try to portray this as anything it is not.
Mary not to be argumentative but HR 3200 Sec. 1233 says the following:
“Advance Care Planning Consultation”
‘‘(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the
term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a con
sultation between the individual and a practitioner de
scribed in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning,
if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has
not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
consultation “shall” include the following:
SHALL is a long ways from the choice of CAN.
With all due respect when a bill uses the word shall there is no option. That is a mandate cast in legal stone.
To me this matters only because of the mandate, as I’ve said previously I oppose any more government ran healthcare programs period.
Why do think they’ve changed their minds? The people of the United States have showed their dismay… that’s why the GOP has changed their stance. Every politician does it. They should listen to us more often.
The government might fund VOLUNTARY consultations on end of life decisions. On your dime? Horrors! Your dime already funds obscene health insurance company profits–the same companies that override your doctor’s decision, reject your claims, and, if you look unprofitable, deny you coverage. If you doubt any of this, have a look at the sort of loot those health insurance company CEOs get (below). Now that’s something to get mad about.
ANNUAL COMPENSATION OF HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANY EXECUTIVES (2006 and 2007 figures):
• Ronald A. Williams, Chair/ CEO, Aetna Inc., $23,045,834
• H. Edward Hanway, Chair/ CEO, Cigna Corp, $30.16 million
• David B. Snow, Jr, Chair/ CEO, Medco Health, $21.76 million
• Michael B. MCallister, CEO, Humana Inc, $20.06 million
• Stephen J. Hemsley, CEO, UnitedHealth Group, $13,164,529
• Angela F. Braly, President/ CEO, Wellpoint, $9,094,771
• Dale B. Wolf, CEO, Coventry Health Care, $20.86 million
• Jay M. Gellert, President/ CEO, Health Net, $16.65 million
• William C. Van Faasen, Chairman, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Massachusetts, $3 million plus $16.4 million in retirement benefits
• Charlie Baker, President/ CEO, Harvard Pilgrim Health Care, $1.5 million
• James Roosevelt, Jr., CEO, Tufts Associated Health Plans, $1.3 million
• Cleve L. Killingsworth, President/CEO Blue Cross Blue Shield of Massachusetts, $3.6 million
• Raymond McCaskey, CEO, Health Care Service Corp (Blue Cross Blue Shield), $10.3 million
• Daniel P. McCartney, CEO, Healthcare Services Group, Inc, $ 1,061,513
• Daniel Loepp, CEO, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, $1,657,555
• Todd S. Farha, CEO, WellCare Health Plans, $5,270,825
• Michael F. Neidorff, CEO, Centene Corp, $8,750,751
• Daniel Loepp, CEO, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, $1,657,555
• Todd S. Farha, CEO, WellCare Health Plans, $5,270,825
• Michael F. Neidorff, CEO, Centene Corp, $8,750,751
Ram it down their throats! Republicans rammed through both of Bush’s tax cuts by way of reconciliation. They also added hundreds of their own amendments to the stimulus bill and then didn’t vote for it. I’m starting to believe Obama is a naive wimp. Do whats in the best interests of the people you voted for, or quit sending me emails when the midterms ramp up. And end-of-life counseling wasn’t socialism when Medicare Part D was passed. At least repubs know they have to make Obama fail, by any means necessary.
Democrats, eager to label themselves bipartisan, water-down legislation in hopes of getting a few Republican votes. When the vote comes up only one or two Republicans support the bill and the People end up financing a corporate give-away while the Democrats end up looking as partisan as ever. When Democrats compromise with Republicans, corporations win.
How do you define bipartisanship? I define it as both sides willing to compromise not just give in and sacrifice their own ideals. The conservative’s ideas about healthcare/health insurance reform have been resoundingly rejected. It appears that the conservatives have been trying to come up with some good ideas that should be incorporated into any healthcare bill, but they have been resoundingly rejected by the democrats and then they portrayed as the “party of no”. Perhaps the republicans will start to refer to the democrats as the “party of my way or the highway”.
Turd Ferguson August 17th, 2009 9:35 am
“The conservatives are not interested in Socialism either…”
I agree that “conservatives” are not interested in Socialism. BUT, Republicans are. That is the rub. Despite all the grandstanding by the Republican Party, this country still has two of the largest Socialist programs in the world – Social Security & Medicare/Medicaid. And 3 Republican presidents, Nixon, Reagan & Bush 43 contributed mightily to both of these Socialist programs. In fact, if not for Reagan, Social Security would probably be gone today.
Name a Republican who is introducing a bill to eliminate either or both of these Socialist programs. You cannot do so. As I continue to point out, talk is easy, actions are another matter.
I have been fighting this encroaching socialism since 1960. For 40 years we conservatives stopped the addition of any new entitlements to the US debt. But then you Republicans decided to elect a “Compassionate
Conservative” to the White House. (Note: compassionate conservative =
Liberal.) So what did Bush 43 do? Another entitlement! He rammed through a Republican controlled congress the Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act (added prescription drugs to Medicare/Medicade). To top that he didn’t even pretend to pay for it.
And all you Republicans voted to re-elect the guy! (If you, in fact, voted against Bush 43, I owe you an apology).
But based on your previous comments to the AJC blogs I would say you are a Republican. But you sir, are no Conservative.
As all administrations, they pick the straws that are thrown on their Camels back. Obama planted and threw the fertilizer into the field, then brought in his own bailers. What other outcome can you expect?
There is no government, only politics. Democrats and Republicans have decided the best way to keep party profits rising and winning elections is to automatically disagree with and demonize the other side.The result is no compromise and the whole country is shafted. Hey, but that’s OK, because it’s corporate warfare: Democrat Inc. vs. Republican Inc.
Good advise for anyone that reads this column. I knew this going in, as I’ve seen Tucker bleat her statist opinions on the Sunday ‘news shows’ with that other facist with a heat of gold Paul Krugman.
Don’t mind me though…I’m white and against UHC which makes me a racist in the eyes of the MSM…somehow.
CT, not to defend Repubs too heavily, since I have left their ranks my ownself, but I find it partisan on your part to lump all GOPers into one hopper. Just because Rush Limbaugh and the other cable TV and radio loudmouths, and a few extreme members of Congress, spread disinformation, that doesn’t mean the whole part is guilty of it. In fact, Sen. Isakson was quick to point out that the whole “death panel” argument was bogus. But you don’t give him or the more reasonable GOPers credit as long as Sarah Palin or Glenn Beck can stir up the nutjobs out there. Don’t paint with such a broad brush, that’s all I’m saying. If the president were decide to go it alone and not reach out to folks who disagree with him honestly and reasonably, he’ll find himself marginalized with the loony left, which remains a decided minority despite popular belief. Most Americans still are in the middle on most issues, and they want consensus. If he ignores that, he’ll be a one-term president. I think he’s smart enough to know that, which is why he’ll continue to reach across the aisle, even when that effort does not bear fruit.
It’s only bipartisanship when REpublicans are called upon to agree with Democrats. While on the way to praising Obama for appointing Republicans to his Cabinet Cynthia, you conveniently overlook the presence of one Rahm Emanuel as Chief of Staff. The former ballet dancer is one of THE most partisans to ever hold the position. Threats, less than nice language, are the Rahmbo way. Then there is Kathleen Seibelius, the most radical to ever serve at HHS. Let’s not forget Eric Holder as Atty General. Here’s a guy so partisan he wants to investigate and prosecute Bush Admin members for interrogation procedures yet cannot see his way to prosecute the New Black Panther Party for its actions at Pennsylvania voting sites in the 2008 elections with complaints, witnesses and video. Hmmmmm, want to talk more about how wonderfully bipartisan Obama has been???
At least this president welcomes open opinion on domestic issues. The GOP option is to change the rules and then ram it down your throat. And if you vote no – they tag you with a superficial label like unpatriotic and liberal. The GOP right was quiet for eight years and now all of a sudden the puppets speak. Keep listening to the conservative radio….dance puppets…dance
Cynthia, President Obama’s claimed attempt at bipartisanhip went out the window immediately when he named Rahm Emanuel his chief of staff. Emanuel makes Hillary Clinton look like Mother Theresa.
The word “Socialist” is used more now than ever and more and more by repubs!!! Noticing the way it is used and and always with racist tones and the mentality of the folks who is using it — is this a new “code word” for the repubs and other crazies replacing the dreaded “N” word? Everyone is talking about Socialism — have any of you lived in a Socialist society? I think not!!!! Is so, please share. All of you know that Healthcare needs to be reformed. I dare any of you to get sick and need a test or medication and your present insurance carrier says no to it. You will will wish for this reform!!! Just keep up the fuss — you know you are only doing it because your President’s name is OBAMA!!! Get over it!!!!
To Captain and David Granger, you’re accounts of Rahm Emanuel would hold some sway if it wasn’t for the fact that Republicans of all stripes have said Emanuel is actually a good negotiator who tries to make win-win compromises for both sides. Don’t ask me, you’re beloved WSJ says so.
I saw forget bipartisanship. To the victor go the spoils. Republicans weren’t interested in bipartisanship for anything. Trying to pander to them will be the dems downfall. They will compromise and still won’t get republican votes.
Barack Obama did end the partisan wrangling – he just does what he wants and ignores any other view point. So how’s that working out for you Mr. President??
Sara, please don’t lump all conservatives together. Some of us merely disagree with the president’s ideas. which doesn’t make us all racist lunkheads (though many are). I happen to admire Mr. Obama personally, and I do acknowledge that he was duly elected by the people; he is my president and I do not wish him ill. However, the concerns about a slide into socialism are real. That’s not to say Obama or the Democrats in power are socialists, but there is concern that an incremental increase in the power of the federal government will lead us down that path. Many of us prefer not to copy the nationalistic approach of Western Europe; our nation was founded by Pilgrims and pioneers who sought to escape such intrusion by the state and forge their own way. This country was founded and made great by rugged individualism, not by ceding our freedoms one by one to the government. And if my insurance company were to deny a test or procedure I needed, which is possible, I would find a way to pay for it out of my own pocket. I don’t look to government, or my neighbor, or you, or anyone else to make life fair for me and ease my troubles. That’s the difference between us.
Same old far left whacko stuff..Has never worked and will not this time!
Obamacare is being torpedoed by his own party! The waterred down version may make it palatable to many? We’ll see–anyway you look at what will be finally voted on, it is a defeat for the far left! Some in America still have some common sense. By the way, sure am happy you took your road show to DC–They might enjoy your politics more than the deep South does?
I don’t get it. The Dems hold both houses of congress and the whitehouse. So why is there a need for bi-partisanship? Perhaps Ms. Tucker should aim her comments at to those who are actually putting up the obstacles; certain members of the Democratic party.
Well, I’m tired of all of you. No one is ever willing to listen to the other side and admit that they just might have valid ideas. Not all conservative ideas are good, not all liberal ideas are bad and vice versa. Most of the advancements we’ve made as a nation have borrowed from the best of each. But now we demonize the other side when we disagree, calling each other socialists, racists or Nazis, the worst insults we can come up with. We no longer can disagree agreeably without making it personal. We gain nothing through this but support the wishes of those who want this country to fail. We are hopelessly divided by ideology, by race, by all manners of demographics. Instead of seeing ourselves as one nation with myriad viewpoints, we see our side as being the “real America” and those who disagree with us as being unworthy of our flag and freedoms. So a pox on all of you. I get tired of trying to introduce a little reason only to be shouted down by the whackjobs on both sides. Everyone should park their little “feelings” once in awhile and use their @#$%ing brains for once. And if you shut up now and again and listened to what people had to say, you might learn something. But then you’d claim to have a headache and find someone else to blame. So chew each other to pieces, see if I care.
When I bought my Jetta Wagon in 2002, the salesman couldn’t understand why I wanted to save a few MPG’s by getting a standard transmission. I said, “We have an oil man in the White House, gas prices are going to go up.”
would someone educate some of these people
that a fascist isn’t a socialist
they are two different critters
one is on the far right and the other
on the far left
Nazis ARE socialists. The acronym in German stood for the National Socialist Party. Hitler’s central government ran every part of everyone’s lives. There were no independent media, no free markets. It was a totalitarian regime. They were at odds with the communists more for ultimate control than over ideological differences, though there were some. Either way, you’re talking about different wings of the same monster. Both are the enemies of freedom and democracy and both should be avoided at all costs. But just because someone is left or right of center in our current debate doesn’t mean they should be lumped into either camp. That’s just wrong.
And communists ARE fascists, at least those in charge of the Soviet Union, China, North Korea, et al. Tell me Kim Jong-Il incorporates the ideals of Marx, Lenin and Engels. Hell no. He’s a two-bit, power mad dictator like all the other chunkheads who came before. Whatever these bozos call themselves, they all came pouring out of the same pit from hell with the same notion of total government control and subjugation of the citizenry. The name-calling is just silly, and what childish minds resort to when they have no reason to offer.
You’ve just mentioned part of why I won’t vote for a Republican again. Add in the transportation bill and the farm bill and you’ve got a complete argument as to why Republicans can’t be trusted to provide small government.
I can’t speak for everyone, but I remember thinking that it was a bad idea and that it was unfair for one generation to dump more debt on future ones to pay for their drugs. I didn’t like it, but I didn’t think it was really a big deal at the time. This new healthcare plan, by contrast, will be more expensive and will probably cost families like mine a lot more than a few extra tax dollars. I think you are seeing more concern because people believe it will affect them directly this time.
I consider myself conservative, and I DO NOT think W was a real conservative. He talked like a Republican, but his programs and policies were too expensive and too intrusive.
As I recall, Dems made a weak (as usual) protest that the prescription plan was unfunded. The press ignored their concerns and all the hubub was about insurance companies getting all the money (which they did).
Never call Rebs racist when your own F Socialist Racist President along with Robert KKK Byrd is a Dem and are racists. The current associations of this president, Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, Rev Wright, Ayers, and the like. It was the Republican vote that allowed the 1964 Civil Rights Act to be passed, not the Racists Dems in office. So please, do not begin to lecture us on racists Republicans as there are good and bad from both sides.
Do not try to spin the Socialist agenda here which is clearly from the DEM side of the isle. These are the same morons who want you to take their new health care but not use it for their own! Sound weird?
If the dems had run a moderate like Joe Lieberman, I would have voted dem. But they ran a moonbat like Al Gore, then a pompous jerk like Kerry. Didn’t like GWB, but you gave me no choice.
It should have been called the Assured Pharmaceutical Company Profitability Act. It hog-tied the federal government by exempting Big Pharma from any controls over outrageous prescription drug pricing. Never mind that these companies continue to sell the same drugs overseas and in Canada at half the price that Americans and the federal government have to pay.
Ms Tucker, I normally disagree with 100% of what you write in your rantings column. This article is no different. I would like to suggest that you return to high school and take some grammar refresher courses; particularly in the area of comma usage.
dear poor and working class white americans continue to vote republican and see where that get you…republicans only care about the rich and big business..as a rich wealthy white male that use to be a big time executive for big insurance i,m here to tell you big insurance and REPUBLICANS WILL SCREW YOU OVER AND OVER AGAIN!!
I don’t understand the argument. If you are saying that Bush did a bad thing, what Obama is doing is even worse. Therefore Obama must equal Bush on Steriods.
Where was all the outrage over so-called rightly-called socialism when George W. Bush and Republicans pushed through the Medicare precription drug plan, another costly entitlement?
Can’t rightly say where all the outrage was over Bush’s socialist Medicare prescription drug plan but it sure felt lonely publically calling on Georgia’s Senators to vote against it, as I recall the time.
However, it is good to see all the absence of rightly due outrage return in full voice after recovering from that nasty bout of Bush-itis. Otherwise, I’d have to file an abandonment complaint against A.W.O.L. conservatives.
Internal Memo Confirms Big Giveaways In White House Deal With Big Pharma
A memo obtained by the Huffington Post confirms that the White House and the pharmaceutical lobby secretly agreed to precisely the sort of wide-ranging deal that both parties have been denying over the past week.
The memo, which according to a knowledgeable health care lobbyist was prepared by a person directly involved in the negotiations, lists exactly what the White House gave up, and what it got in return.
It says the White House agreed to oppose any congressional efforts to use the government’s leverage to bargain for lower drug prices or import drugs from Canada — and also agreed not to pursue Medicare rebates or shift some drugs from Medicare Part B to Medicare Part D, which would cost Big Pharma billions in reduced reimbursements.
In exchange, the Pharmaceutical Researchers and Manufacturers Association (PhRMA) agreed to cut $80 billion in projected costs to taxpayers and senior citizens over ten years. Or, as the memo says: “Commitment of up to $80 billion, but not more than $80 billion.”
Unfortunately, it looks like we’ll end up giving the farm away to Big Pharma and Big Insurance when/if “reform” is passed. I heard on the radio this morning, the UK spend between 100 and 200 billion for they’re entire national insurance system (single payer). America spends more than 10 times that much just on Medicare and Medicaid, which is only a fraction of total health care spending. We’re just spending too much on healthcare!!!
Also, there’s a difference between senior citizens who are retired and have contributed to society their entire life, and providing health care for illegals and people who have 6 kids w/ 6 different babys daddys and don’t plan on getting a job anytime soon.
Medicaid is what needs reforming. I worked as a pharmacy tech for 3 years. I’ve seen first hand how Medicaid is a flawed system right now. People come in driving a Escalade but paying 50 cents for a prescription. Women bragging about getting their nails done for $25, but complaining that they don’t have 50 cents for a prescription.
Dear Ms. Tucker:
Democrats supported Bush on this. Most Republicans opposed, but knew it was pointless to try to stop it. You pick you fights in politics. BTW, Bush was not as conservative as the media portrayed him. Not by a longshot.
Unbelieveable! President Bush fends off a blistering assault from the Democrat Party for 8 years, but still has the compassion to appease them by helping the elder generation with a drug assistance plan. Even though the Dems never took the initiative to help the elderly other than cheap talk during thier years of power, now they use his perscription legislation as a club against the Republican Party. The only thing wrong with President Bush’s initiative was the timing of the legislation and the money involved. However, the comparison and projected amount of money is another fabricated lie of the liberals. They are trying to sell socialized medicine on America and are failing miserably at it. What you are seeing is a lost campaign being sold by left wing kooks like Tucker and Pelosi. Those who agree with the likes of Tucker are mere fools following fools. The Democrat Party in this country has become a rabble of left wing whack jobs and uninformed day dreamers who think that entitlements are an American priveledge. Unfortunately, President Bush fell for the idea of a good cause. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. One thing is for sure…Democrats will turn everything good into bad.
YOU ARE SO RIGHT AND THE FAR RIGHT IS SO WRONG…WITH A CAPITAL “W”..AS IN GEORGE W. BUSH…I AM SO TIRED OF REPUBLICANS USING SCARE TACTICS TO FRIGHTEN AMERICANS WHETHER IT BE TO FIGHT AN UNNECESSARY WAR OR FIGHT HEALTH CARE FOR AMERICANS. IN EITHER CASE THEY WOULD RATHER SEE AMERICANS DIE THAT SIMPLY TELL THE TRUTH….DEMOCRATS, LED BY PRESIDENT OBAMA NEED TO DO THE RIGHT THING ON HEALTH CARE AND NOT THE FAR RIGHT THING…COLLABORATION, YES, BUT COMPROMISE ON PRINCIPLE, NEVER.
I have better things to do than day dream my hours away writing what-ifs and dusting off the pixie dust that your unaccomplished president has thrown around on you people. Face it. You people are following a laughing stock. That’s all you have is a ideology in practice that is being rejected once again by an awakened America. I’m off to do something productive in life. See ya.
The reason there was no out cry is that it benefitted big business at the expense of the taxpayer. The entire W. legacy is one of reverse Robin Hood. Rob from the middle class and give to the rich Friends of Bush. Bush was a conserative. He relied on a base aristocracy, pulled in the religous right with his platitudes, and tried to structure the presidency as a kingship. He was a true “old line” conserative. Why should the Republicans yell about Medicare part D when their main supporters were benefitting? Their hands were in the cookie jar, so they saw nothing wrong with it.
TEA wrote: “I heard on the radio this morning, the UK spend between 100 and 200 billion for they’re entire national insurance system (single payer). America spends more than 10 times that much just on Medicare and Medicaid, which is only a fraction of total health care spending. We’re just spending too much on healthcare!!!”
Would it be that we have a good many MORE people here in the USA than they do in UK?
There was TONS of outrage from the right, myself included. I don’t listen to Rush, but I know radio hosts like Neal Boortz were mightily ticked off, and I consider it Bush’s biggest betrayal of what he was supposed to be. Well biggest until the bailouts began last year.
Unfortunately the best you guys came up with was Kerry, and Bush was still better than that. Don’t blame me because your guy was still more pathetic than Bush.
Yeah Peadawg, I bet NO senior citizen has ever had a baby out of wedlock or was an illegal immigrant during their working years. They are pure, so they deserve every last drop out of Medicare that us people with JOBS pay for. And the younger generation deserves for Medicare to go bankrupt on them because they are SO irresponsible despite the Boomers having created this mess in the first place with their outdated culture wars, poor parenting, and the election of that simpleton Ronald Reagan (and thus the decline of the educational system, which is on full display at the town halls).
There was outrage. There was also outrage when FDR created that other program that is going to sink the budget, Social Security. The same one the Supreme Court was going to find unconstitutional until he threated to pack the Court!
Cynthia,
I’ll answer your question with a question. You express outrage at racism by white people directed at black people. Have you ever expressed outrage at racism directed at whites by black people.
I think the government really just needs to step off the issue entirely.
We were built as a Republic with Rule by Law, not to have majority groups(democracy) or plutocratic business elites tell us what to do.
Especially when it comes to end of life plans.
I don’t agree with playing God and extending people’s lives who are braindead or in deep suffering who should have allowed nature to take course long ago, unless they are physically there to tell us they want to go on.
To have a binding contract that extends life past the point where the individual can cancel the contract is simply illogical and irrational.
Euthanasia is a sick and incorrect term for saying “This person is by all means dead, and we should allow the natural order of things to resume as opposed to hooking them to machines to potentially live out a nightmare in their mind for the remaining duration of existence in their Human Shell”.
In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with that statement.
As society “progresses”, find our population fixating on new issues that completely seem to ignore the natural cycles of life and death.
By the way, I would appreciate some sort of intelligible reply to said argument above. In reflection of this page, I quickly realize I am the only one who has stepped outside the situation, stopped looking Left and Right, and sees the greater picture, I see a 3 Dimensional image of the issue as well as how this issue has corrupted cross time.
Stop arguing about this specifics and this particularly issue, and get to the point.
The point is, this is a lesson on life and death for humankind, and it is time we evolve and step up to the plate. What would Carl Sagan, MLK, or Gandhi say? Or rather, what wouldn’t they talk about.
I have a 2005 hummer H2 SUT, a 1997 Chevrolet Silverado 1/2 ton regular cab shortbox 4×4, a 1998 Chevrolet Tahoe 2dr 4×4 & a 1991 Buick Reatta. The 97 Silverado gets 16-18mpg, the Tahoe 14-17, Reatta 29-31 and the Hummer after my taking all the junk off the outside and doing some modifications to the air intake and exhaust gets 14-17mpg. In other words, the Hummer gets as good gas mileage as does my other two trucks. Nobody has ever asked me what gas mileage my trucks get, but I cannot get into and back out of a gas station without someone asking about the Hummer gas mileage. When I told a Ford Excursion owner what my Hummer got for mileage he laughed and said ” I only wish my Excursion got that kind of mileage, I get around 10-12mpg”. I only use the Hummer when we are all going somewhere so I always have a load of four people on board. I don’t feel so bad hauling four people around getting an avarage of 15mpg. Its like one person driving a vehicle by themselves and getting 60mpg!!
And to Concerned consumer who said:
“I have never understood who EVER buys a Hummer? Big car, Little …….is what I think” Ask my partner about that one, I am quite sure she would disagree with you!! By the way, I own 16 vehicles, worked hard to get ever one of them. I commonly drive a almost 20 year old collector Buick Reatta that gets an average of 30+ mpg. I use the Hummer when we all go somewhere. At 15mpg hauling 4 people I am using less resources to move four people than the guy driving by himself getting 25mpg. And I can haul pretty much anything within reason behind me. I doubt your “clean diesel Jetta, great gas mileage and peppy” vehicle will pull much more than its shadow without that peppy mileage going out the window!
if original testimony has been recanted, then surely a new trial by a jury is in order with the requirement that the prosecution prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. shifting the burden to davis to clearly establish his innocence does not protect the justice system from error or solidify its “integrity.”
[...] to warrant at least another look at any case, even more so for a capital murder case. Thankfully, that is going to happen, but no thanks to Scalia and [...]
Ms Tucker – Please research the name “Michael Cooper”. Mr Cooper is the man that TROY DAVIS was convicted of shooting that same night, hours before HE KILLED Officer MacPhail.
I notice that one can detect the bias of a source by their inclination to totally depend upon the recantation of the eye-witness testimony at the crime scene where Troy Davis shot MacPhail or if the person is willing to expand the crime scene and make note of the continuity of violent behavior by Troy Davis.
The same gun which shot Michael Cooper outside of the party is the same gun which killed the fallen officer.
Why don’t you also seek to overturn Davis’ conviction for shooting Michael Cooper IF you are so strong in your belief that he is an innocent man?
As a former Republican that gave up on the party eight years ago, I am disheartened to see how easily the Democrats are caving. I voted for Obama because I wanted radical healthcare reform with a SINGLE PAYER OPTION. I have an excellent job with good insurance, but if and when I retire, we will not be able to get insurance because my husband has a pre-existing condition. Everyone I know that has lived in Great Britain, France or Cananda have loved their health care system. The last numbers I saw show that Great Britain ranks 18th in healthcare among industrialized nations. The US is 37th. Our representatives are buckling under the screams and rants of idiots that don’t know, and don’t want to know the facts. By the way, the other major reasons I voted for Obama is that I thought he would close Guantanamo and end the war. It is insane that the United State sanctions holding anyone as a prisoner without charging them with a crime and having a trial to decide guilt or innocence. I also want the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan over and done with. They are rat holes down which we are pouring billions that will not serve our interests. That money can be used to fund our deficit. The Dems have caved on these promises also. I am sick that I can no longer trust any representative to do what they promised. I am very disappointed in President Obama. I thought he would be different.
The vast rightwing conspiracy which first showed its head during the Clinton years actually began during the New Deal. It reveals itself when the material interests of a certain ruling group is threatened; then they embark on a scheme to frighten the yahoos in our society, people whose intelligence never rises above vitriol. H.L. Mencken had their number. Now they have re-emerged to challenge O’Bama. The president does threaten their interests: he is a black man who, against all tradition and common sense, was elected president of this white nation. He must be repudiated; the rightwingers are doing a good job of repudiating him, as is O’Bama himself. Had the economy not tanked and had the GOP not picked senile John McCain to run for president with an even more senile Sarah Palin, O’Bama would still be a Senator.
Just to be clear: liberals protesting policies they don’t approve of is admirable, conservatives doing the exact same thing is a “right-wing conspiracy”.
It is amusing that Tucker is such a hypocrite that she can talk about “conspiracies”, yet label those who dare to disagree with her intrinsically correct views as “paranoid”. What a hypocrite.
It’s not republicans who are PAYING people to show up and protest. It’s not republicans PAYING to have people bused in and providing them with professionally painted signs. NO, that’s the CONSIPIRACY of SEIU and AARP and other LIBERAL groups. Since when do a few radio hosts and commentators urging people to express their views to their elected officials constitute a “right-wing” conspiracy. There was no conspiracy then and there’s certainly not one now. Why is it that when the agenda of the left gets questioned, the left attack the questioners? There is no vitriol like that of you people who support this president and this socialist agenda and that is proved by the personal attacks you make to defend yourself. You have shown yourselves for the hypocrites you are.
I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator :-) You Whine :-(
August 19th, 2009 7:42 am
I’m baaaaaccckkk.
A simple minded column for simple minded people, typical Queen Pinko.
More citizens identify themselves as political conservatives than as political liberals in every state in the U.S., according to results of a Gallup Poll announced yesterday.
There’s your conspiracy, right there^^.
If I’m wrong and Tuck is right, perhaps somebody can explain why Obozo kampaigned as a Conservative?
Tax cuts?
More troops in Afghanistan?
These are policy planks of the democrat party?
And why, pray tell, did Sotomayor parrot Clarence Thomas at here Senate Confirmation hearing?
Is she a vast white winger?
Munch on your comfort food, dullards, it’s all ya got.
Justice? Another Hearing? I’ll be honest, I don’t know all the details but any new hearing should start with purgery charges against the witnesses. If they falsely testified to convict a man innocent of the charge; they should go to jail. If they are changing their testimony because of some other agenda; they should go to jail. There is absoluteley no excuse for changing any sworn testimony. These witnesses need to be held accountable for what they have done to either Davis or the MacPhail family.
You ever notice that none of the health care reform’s supporters never make a case for their policy? Instead they just tell us that they hate conservatives. We knew that you felt that way already folks. How about making the case for the policy that you support instead of just trying to demonize its opponents?
Perhaps a few of us have been around long enough to know that when the govt gets involved with most any program, said program turns to shiat.
We support the free enterprise system as its served us seniors well for many years and now that we reach our twilight years the govt wants to screw us over? I dont think so Mister. We built this Country and we are not about to sit around and allow the likes of obama, pelosi, reid, frank ruin it for us and the rest of you.
Yes…we may not know much but we KNOW the govt screws up most anything it touches. All these giveaway and freebies. Nothing is free and thats my hard earned money, as well as yours, going to support a group of freeloaders.
With regard to tucker…she has been out of touch for years.
“But it wouldn’t take much for one of these angry gunslingers to do some real damage at a public gathering.”
Which is secretly what you want, isn’t it Tucker? A little mayham from a civil war reenactor would really seal the deal on gun control, health control, mind control etc. That’s why you would rather sling mud and demonize than ’seek bi-partisanship’ (remember that column? Who wrote that?) I guess if you goad the public long enough you will get what you ask for.
Cynthia –
Please remind us about how President O’bama (thank you, norman) won the election, and has a mandate for change. How he is empowered to fix the climate, and health care. And close Gitmo this year. And no new taxes on the middle class. Please? I need a laugh.
Hey Cynthia, Did you catch your pal, the lovely Shelia Jackson Lee making a damn fool out of her self. She was at a town hall meeting and answering the phone during questions. cz
The goal of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy is to protect the People of the US and our US Constitution from the actions of the Less Vast Left Wing Conspiracy has never stopped.
This story is a great example of type of trash that the AJC allows Cynthia Tucker to print, and is also the reason I haven’t subscribed to the paper for years. I only ran across this story while surfing the net, its free! Let’s be real here, if Troy Davis was a white man, ole Cynthia’s column would probably be on why countries should have no borders and illegal immigrants should be able to come and go as they please.
I told you so! I told you so! I knew I smelled the stench of Richard Mellon Scaife. I guess his tawdry second divorce went better than was originally thought (adultery, assault, no prenup) if he still has his family $$$ to throw around his pet causes.
The goal of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy is to rule America by whatever means necessary — totalitarianism or theocracy — in order enable the Big Corporations to make our laws and to keep Americans trembling with fear…
Of course it’s up to the people of the Massachussets 4th congressional district, but after seeing Barney Frank in action last night at a Dartmouth townhall meeting, if I were one of his constituents – regardless of party affiliation – I certainly wouldn’t vote to return him to office. He epitomizes congressional arrogance. It’s time for him & those of his political ilk to go.
Blame it on the “machine” Tucker. In a nut shell folks, Sinthia is telling us that Americans aren’t smart enough to know what’s right and it’s all the talk show hosts fault for spreading lies. Get with the program SISTA!
What is a “admirable conservative” Mike? I’ve never seen one of those. Unless being a hateful, bigoted, scared shi%less, angry at the world cretin is what you are talking about.
Pass health care reform with a public option then pass immigration reform, and vast right wingnut crowd is dead in the water forever. They understand this and therefore their behavior. I am waiting for one of them to draw his gun at one of these meetings. You know it’s coming, and when the Secret Service blows him away these fools will use that as a rallying cry. No more ignorant group has ever been collectively assembled as these right wing ignoramuses. But guess what? They live by the sword and they will die by it. Good riddance to right wing rubbish.
Hmm. Cynthia’s premises are that anything to the political right of Pelosi, Reid and Obama is the result of a “conspiracy,” that health care “reform” is good and that the science behind AGW (”climate change”) is settled. (Hint: Their ‘puter models can’t even ‘predict’ well-known historical weather patterns and cycles, let alone predict future events and cycles. GIGO. Hint #2: If the theory doesn’t match reality and isn’t predictive, the theory’s no good. Hint *3: The IPCC and AlGore overlooked that big yellow thingy in the sky, basically implying that the sun has no effect upon Earth’s climate. So, AlGore got a Nobel Peace prize for ignoring the sun…)
The rest of the logical fallacies in her article are derived from her original false premises. (False premises are a wee bit divorced from factual evidence and proof and even from reality.)
While using logic like that…How the hell did she get a Pulitzer?
It’s amazing how the few white bloggers here scream ” She only b/c he’s black.” Yet, these same white bloggers , I’m sure” said nothing about the white men (in Paris Texas ) that killed black men by dragging them behind their cars/trucks. Regardless of how you feel about justice , I KNOW for a fact it varies pending upon race, the amount you have and gender.
Cynthia, I agree with you. I have no problem seeing murderers executed but I do have a problem with innocent people being executed. Make doubly sure you got the right guy BEFORE YOU PUT HIM ON THE GURNEY OF DEATH!!! You know Cynthia, it’s amazing how all the white trash reads your writings but they all hate the AJC because of what you write. My diagnosis-cognitive dissonance. Keep writing and they’ll keep reading, moving their lips as they do.
Cynthia, your an idiot. When all else fails lets stur the pot once again by claiming racism. People that have legitimate problems with government health care express there views. Do you even know these people? Have you talked to them? On what do you base your comments of racism? Simple because we disagree doesn’t make me a racist. I didn’t vote for Obama because he was black, but because I don’t want to live in a socialist country. I have voted in the past for Dylan Glenn and Herman Cain, two black men, because I agree with their views. Why don’t you have an intelligent conversation about why we don’t like this health care bill instead of resorting to name calling.
The thing is, this so-called reform will be harmful to most Americans, including the people who are working so hard to get it passed. We can’t afford it, and we won’t be pleased with it once it’s in place. I hope the “right-wing conspiracy” can derail this socialist nightmare, but I know reform will probably happen. If you want to know how government healthcare will work out, take a look at the countries that already have it.
In a few years, when you have to wait for six hours in a doctor’s office for routine care, remember that this is what you wanted.
When your doctor is more concerned about following government policy than about your needs and getting a prescription filled is as frustrating as waiting in line at the post office or DMV, remember how glad you are to have Washington running the system.
When your sick kid can’t get the treatment you want for him because there is a cheaper option (never mind that you already tried it and it didn’t work), remember to tell the kid how happy you are to have Obamacare.
When your 93-year-old grandma can’t get a pacemaker because some bureaucrat doesn’t think it’s cost-effective to keep her alive for a few more years, remember that YOU helped push this through.
When you have to wait three years to get the knee surgery you need, remember to thank your lawmakers for “fixing” the system. Your senator, by the way, will NOT be waiting three years for surgery — he will be flying to another country to get it done at a clinic that caters to rich Americans.
The idea that a handful (if that) of loud, gun-toting knuckleheads can shout down Ms. Tucker and the vast left-leaning media empire is downright laughable. So how many “criticizing the critics” columns must we endure before someone as bright and eloquent as Ms. Tucker takes a stab at telling us specifically why they feel that President Obama’s healthcare plan is the answer. And not just because he says it is, please.
You folks ever wonder if Cynthia and Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee’s butt’s glow bright red when their ready to mate? Especially, you left-wing pukes, Bob and Cindy!
Of course Cynthia Tucker/McKinney can’t form a cohesive explanation as to why the protestors are wrong – just resorts to the same lame Democrap luney-tunes strategy of name calling and faux racism.
It would be nice if the AJC employed a writer intelligent enough to actually comment on National matters instead of the tired old crap we’ve gotten from this woman for years. No wonder they can’t sell newspapers anymore!
lovely liz;
The Right Wing would not view me as Right Wing, but I observed the VRWC fighting against Republicans, Democrats and sometimes both (and I helped on some issues) about:
Citizenship for Illegal Residents;
Increasing the size of the Government;
Supreme Court Nominations;
Unwise and un-necessary spending;
Selling Sea Ports to Foreign Governments;
Preventing Iran and N. Korea from developing Nuclear weapons; etc.
I suspect you could add a few more examples. Some of them might even be honest examples.
How said that author Tucker celebrates equally in the protestations of a man, known to have shot one, and linked to the killing of another by ballistic evidence, and the denigration of true American heroes President Bush and Vice President Cheney.
Even sadder that the AJC willingly provides a pulpit for her drivel. Perhaps, the reason that the AJC is going out of business – out of touch with morality, common sense, and the majority of Atlantans.
I find it interesting that it is OK for the dems to leverage Acorn, but it is a conspiracy for ordinary people to ask legitimate questions of their congressman. The problem with Cynthia and her ilk is that they are really afraid of the normal process of governance as defined in that inconvenient document called the constitution. If you think about it, most of the great liberal accomplishments are the result of activity through the courts. Much of the great FDR’s social program was ruled unconsitutional after the court returned to form. Remember, he packed the court to make sure that things would not get stopped. When dems have to deal with the messy process of convincing people that their ideas are good, they resort to exactly what we see here.
Unlike some people who have commented on this blog, there are a whole lot of people who have seen how poorly Obamacare works in places like Canada and England. They don’t want it.
So, they show up in places like town hall meetings with their congress person and they ask questions. They express their opinion.
It’s not a conspiracy, Cynthia dear, it’s a representative democracy and people are telling their representatives what they think.
In fact, if you think about it, Obama has done a great job of uniting the country. Millions of people are united in their opposition to his plan!
mike August 19th, 2009 7:52 am SAID: You ever notice that none of the health care reform’s supporters never make a case for their policy? Instead they just tell us that they hate conservatives. We knew that you felt that way already folks. How about making the case for the policy that you support instead of just trying to demonize its opponents?
CHRIS SAYS: Make a case for the policy we support? Like Health Care Reform? Here’s our case: Read the f*cking bill. Also, go to some truly NON-Partisan websites such as http://www.politifact.co or http://www.factcheck.org to filter out the lies being spread by conservative idiots. You know, like those lies about “Death Panels” spread and backed by conservatives, which have no basis in fact.
While you’re at it, name me one corporation tied to health care, insurance or pharma that is in favor or funding groups SUPPORTING reform? I can name you countless of the same corporate interests that are funding the opposition to reform. Which pretty much confirms the fact that most conservatives cannot think for themselves and are mindless tools to corporate special interests. You know, like those folks holding up signs saying “KEEP GOVT. OUT OF MY MEDICARE!”.
Here’s a fact: You folks in the opposition have the likes of Glenn Beck supporting you, we have FACTS. Enough said.
Pat Phelps August 19th, 2009 10:36 am SAID: People that have legitimate problems with government health care express there views. Do you even know these people? Have you talked to them?
CHRIS SAYS: What legitimate problems? All we progressives hear is talk of “socialism”, which is laughable. So Pat, are you in favor of eliminating Medicare, because that’s a “socialist” government program if there ever was one. Lets not forget the nonsense about “Death Panels”, or rationed care, or that illegals will be provided free health care, etc. Name me a few of those legitimate concerns? PLEASE.
Pat Phelps August 19th, 2009 10:36 am SAID:On what do you base your comments of racism? Simple because we disagree doesn’t make me a racist. I didn’t vote for Obama because he was black, but because I don’t want to live in a socialist country.
CHRIS SAYS: Did you call GW Bush a “socialist” when he introduced the Medicare Prescription Program? No? I didn’t think so? Do you even know what the word “socialist” means??? Look it up and you’ll then understand why each time you conservatives bring it up, we have a good laugh or think you’re retarded.
HERE”S THE DEFINITION: A Socialist state is defined as one where the majority of the means of economic production are in the hands of the State (or in our case, the federal government). In the case of the United States, 99.9% of economic production is in private hands.
BTW, Germany, France, the UK, etc are all countries that are based on market based capitalist economies. They also have some form subsidized health care. You define these countries as socialist???
So, Pat, do you now understand why all us progressives are laughing at you???
Interesting poll being talked about last night. 14% of Republicans don’t know Medicare is a government program and 10% aren’t sure. That is almost 1/4 of Republicans.
ctucker August 19th, 2009 11:23 am SAID: Pat, Where in the world did I say anything about race or racism in that column?
CHRIS SAYS: The only one with the racial issues here is Pat Phelps. Yeah, Pat, PLEASE tell us where Cynthia Tucker say anything about race in her column??? Please enlighten us ………
I would like to say that, I have attended local meeting (on my own dime). I did so because, I have a simple objective. The country may or may not need reform in our health care. That subject is under current vigorous debate.
I would like to see our representatives re-read our founding documents, Declarartion of Independence & the Constitution. They could then explain simply to us the source of their authority to require us to have a governement agency mandate health care/insurance and the invasion into our individual private lives.
I strongly believe that I can make better, more economical decisions regarding my health care than a disconnected government oversight group. For one, I do not believe the government is an efficient deliverer of services to the general population and they do not have the authority to demand I participate.
Thank you.
Peter
“Despite the insistence of Republican leaders that the tea-party crowd and the town-hall protestors are merely concerned individuals who have spontaneously made the decision to shout and yell threats at public meetings, the protests are, in fact, prodded by networks of conservative activists. Richard Mellon Scaife, a Pittsburg billionaire who is the financial lifeblood of ultra-conservative activism, is a contributor, according to The Washington Post.”
Would someone explain the difference between George Soros funding the radical left (moveon.org) and Richard Mellon Scaife funding the conservative movement?
Peter, tell us where in the founding papers the leaders of our country 250 years ago mentioned having the FAA, CDC, the post office, FDA, development of the atomic bomb, regulationg of TV and radio, the interstate road system and the list goes on….
Peter Mokhiber August 19th, 2009 11:42 am SAID: I strongly believe that I can make better, more economical decisions regarding my health care than a disconnected government oversight group. For one, I do not believe the government is an efficient deliverer of services to the general population and they do not have the authority to demand I participate.
CHRIS SAYS: So Peter, you’re against the mandate requiring you to carry an appropriate level of insurance on the car that you drive? So its okay to require you to carry insurance on your car but not on yourself?
BTW, so who ends up paying for your medical care when you choose not to carry any health insurance, or only limited health insurance? WE ALL DO after you declare bankruptcy. BTW, over 50% of all personal bankruptcies in this country are related to health care costs. So, who do you think ends up paying for all these unpaid bills?
I’m Scared’s classic example of wording: the left is “radical” and the right is “conservative movement”.
Considering the lies and deceit we have heard from the “conservative movement” the more apt term is “wacko, off the wall and over the edge, right wing fringe group.”
As for Peter Mokhiber: where in the healthcare bill does it say you “have to participate”? It has been made very clear (but apparently you choose not to listen) that, if you already have health insurance and are happy with it, you can keep your current plan. You may even be surprised when their price goes down to becoome more competative. As for me, I am a single payer (I think that’s the term), with Blue Cross. I pay ONE-THIRD of my income for health insurance. If they decide to drop me, I’m up the creek. Ask me if I want the public option! Go ahead, ask me! (and millions more!)
Peter: What health care plan do you have? Employer participation??
Chris – to question whether people have “legitimate problems” with the bill depicts a level of arrogance. There are a lot of people who have legitimate disagreements with the contents of the bill that is being debated in the house. These include:
a) The whole concept of the CER which will determine which treatments are “effective” and tie doctors to those treatments. If the government decides, like they have in the UK, that cardiac catheterizations and cardiac stents do not offer adequate improvement of quality of life, they can refuse to pay for them after a certain age. In the UK that age is 59. That means that people with cardiac disease cannot get effective treatment. I strongly oppose this.
b) We have a current model for the end of life consulting that is operating in the VA today. The guidebook for this consulting was written primarily by an ardent assisted suicide advocate.
c) In certain kinds of situations, there is a marked difference in the effectiveness of different forms of certain drugs. My spouse responds well to a name brand drug for migraines. The generic equivalent provides no relief. If the plan allows a government board to decide which medicine can be dispensed, I have a legitimate disagreement with that.
Finally, Chris, there are a lot of people who have had interactions with government operations who are literally scared of what would happen to health care in this country. Ever tried to deal with the post office? In addition, there are millions of believe who profoundly believe that market solutions ultimately end up being vastly superior at lower cost.
The real problem with Obamacare is not the words that people use. It is that the dems are unwilling to make their case in the marketplace of ideas and convince people as to why it would be better. The life experiences of many create legitimate reservations that they are expressing to representatives who react with arrogance. This breeds the levels of distrust and resistance that we are seeing from plain old thoughtful everyday citizens.
Cynthia Tucker doesn’t have to mention the word racism for us to know that’s whats in her thoughts. Read her previous columns. Racism is the theme in all but a few. Hillary Clinton cried “vast right-wing conspiracy” until the blue dress showed turned up and blew that away. (No pun intended.)
Does anyone really think that this “debate” is over anything other than a game that’s already rigged? Forget “socialism” or the other hot-button words that get the old fat white folks in a tizzy. Insurance companies have spent $200MM (one would assume from our premiums we faithfully pay each month) to ensure that there will be NO competition, EVER, and they can keep raising their premiums forever.
In the bigger picture, if any kind of meaningful health care reform goes through, the Republicans know they’ll be in the wilderness for a couple decades, just like they were after Social Security passed in the 30s and Medicare passed in the 60s. Americans may talk about “freedom”, but they love their “free” s*** from the government. If the deficit was their main concern, how come they aren’t outraged over the $$trillion that’s already been spent in Iraq? The politicians want to protect their jobs long enough to get to the real brass ring, making big bucks as lobbyists. If they were not convinced that health care reform would become as popular as SS and Medicare and their opposition to it would put them out of a job, they would simply allow the legislation to go forward, watch the Democrats wither, and then change the law when they took power again.
Tucker is up to her prejudices again. She badsshed the bush administration everytime she could and now blast those who stand up for their rights. Al Frankin and George Soros bought the Senate seat, no word. ACLU, AARP, Acorn bus their people into town halss and no word from Tucker. If you believein your freedom and personal rights, do not look for Tucker to be on your side. She wants to be on the government plantation – craddle to grave.
you don’t have to mention race to know you are thinking about it. Your comments to Chris Matthews the other day are proof positive you are thinking that way.
I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator :-) You Whine :-(
August 19th, 2009 12:29 pm
Would someone explain the difference between George Soros funding the radical left (moveon.org) and Richard Mellon Scaife funding the conservative movement?
Heck, what would you call the federal government funding ACORN and other assorted health care supporters?
This lib doesn’t seem to know she’s in a glass house.
proud old guy August 19th, 2009 12:06 pm SAID:
a) The whole concept of the CER which will determine which treatments are “effective” and tie doctors to those treatments. If the government decides, like they have in the UK, that cardiac catheterizations and cardiac stents do not offer adequate improvement of quality of life, they can refuse to pay for them after a certain age. In the UK that age is 59. That means that people with cardiac disease cannot get effective treatment. I strongly oppose this.
CHRIS SAYS: POG (Proud Old Guy), that’s a good point isn’t this is supposition on your part. We don’t know which treatments will be called ineffective. Also, doesn’t Medicare already cover this? Isn’t this reform bill currently meant for those folks who a) Are not on Medicare (b) Have no insurance (c) Are on single payer plans and (d) On single payer plans that exclude pre-existing conditions.
proud old guy August 19th, 2009 12:06 pm SAID:
b) We have a current model for the end of life consulting that is operating in the VA today. The guidebook for this consulting was written primarily by an ardent assisted suicide advocate.
CHRIS SAYS: End of life consulting is primarily meant to ensure everyone has a living will. In fact, many Republicans supported this measure, in one form or another, in the past. This myth of a “death panel” has been debunked various times, again and again. Also, I don’t believe that the VA in any way supports assisted suicide at all, inspite of who wrote it.
proud old guy August 19th, 2009 12:06 pm SAID:
c) In certain kinds of situations, there is a marked difference in the effectiveness of different forms of certain drugs. My spouse responds well to a name brand drug for migraines. The generic equivalent provides no relief. If the plan allows a government board to decide which medicine can be dispensed, I have a legitimate disagreement with that.
CHRIS SAYS: Again, since you’re an “OLD” guy (I’m wildly guessing here), isn’t that already covered under your Medicare Prescription Plan? By the way, many private insurance plans don’t cover many brand drugs. HOWEVER, there is no government board mentioned in this bill that can decide what medicine can be dispensed. I’ve read through the bill and haven’t come across that.
proud old guy August 19th, 2009 12:06 pm SAID:
Finally, Chris, there are a lot of people who have had interactions with government operations who are literally scared of what would happen to health care in this country. Ever tried to deal with the post office? In addition, there are millions of believe who profoundly believe that market solutions ultimately end up being vastly superior at lower cost.
CHRIS SAYS: I think that the Post Office is a pretty bad example. Most people I know, are pretty happy with Medicare, which is a health INSURANCE program. The VA is a bad example since this program involves the ENTIRE HEALTH CARE CYCLE including HOSPITAL and SPECIALIST CARE. The Health Care Reform bill is aimed at health INSURANCE plans and how to pay for them.
proud old guy August 19th, 2009 12:06 pm SAID:
The real problem with Obamacare is not the words that people use. It is that the dems are unwilling to make their case in the marketplace of ideas and convince people as to why it would be better. The life experiences of many create legitimate reservations that they are expressing to representatives who react with arrogance. This breeds the levels of distrust and resistance that we are seeing from plain old thoughtful everyday citizens.
CHRIS SAYS: I agree with some of what you wrote here. I’ve heard some politicians complain that the Bill is over 1,000 pages long. Aren’t they paid to read through this? Why else are they there? HOWEVER, the entire reform bill is available online. There are also NON-PARTISAN websites, not tied to any corporate or political interests that are available to debunk many myths that are thrown around about this reform bill. The two websites that I know of are: http://www.factcheck.org and http://www.politifact.com
FINALLY, please remember that this bill is primarily an INSURANCE bill.
Cynthia is in a tizzy because she found out the protester with the AR-15 was a black guy and the guy that did the Obama-Joker poster was a Palestinian from Chicago.
What you write is true and insightful. However, I sure there are, but am ignorant of the names of the interests on the other side of this political battle and would like to know what those are as well. Thanks for your hard work, Cynthia.
Robyn August 19th, 2009 12:31 pm : It’s alright to take a portion of my money and help the truly needy. It’s not alright to give it to worthless bums and welfare brood mares.
CHRIS SAYS: When talking about “worthless bums”, just remember that many of the homeless are veterans. Also, some compassion should be called for and remember the old saying “But for the grace of God, there go I”.
Chris, Yes the government runs Medicare and has bankrupted the program. Social Security is all but bankrupt and probably will not be around when I retire. The United States Senate could not even run their own cafeteria without screwing it up and bankrupting it. So explain to me how the government will pay for and administer a trillion dollar program without bankrupting it?
The father of moderm day socialism said, “from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs.” How is this program different than that quote from Karl Marx?
Go “vast rightwing conspiracy” – You liberals are nuts!! Republicans are forced to show up and make our representatives listen! It takes a lot of hard work to balance out the liberal mainstream media, all of which should get pay checks cut by the DNC. Instead of thoughtful debate, democrats are always so quick to demonize and blame some “right wing conspiracy.” So as a PROUD member of the “vast right wing conspiracy”, i guess i’m a racist too – right??? It’s always one or the other – and sometimes both with you people! BTW – Love those poll numbers falling faster and faster everyday! Thanks for waking up the sleeping public and giving them a reason to give us back the Whitehouse and Congress!!!
Cynthia, actually the nut case Republicans started back with their non-sense last summer during the presidential campaign. “Hussein” Obama, flag pin, birth certificate, ACORN, Michelle and all of the other non-sense was all Republicans could talk about. Those were their issues.
Now all of the sudden a real issue comes up and they act like a bunch of spoiled brats that had a toy taken away. They still aren’t even focused on the issue. Now we have the Nazi claims, the socialist name game, stuffing guns all over your body to make a point, and still more birther nonsense.
This kind of idiocy on the part of Republicans is very self-destructive. Instead of the Democrats Republicans should be trying to get rid of every last Republican leader for allowing their party to be hijacked.
Of course the Democrats now control the federal government with a super-majority in the House, filibuster-proof Senate, and the Presidency.
Danny X…if I remember correctly the first lady of the Democratic party, the lovely Nancy Polesi, started the Nazi name calling. Were you just as outraged at that? Did you call and complain to her? Of course not, because there is a double standard on the left.
This health care reform is just another option for people to sit around their butts and live off the the government. The people who actually work will have to pay for it but it wont be enough to cover the costs. And although nobody wants to say it, liberals want Doctor’s to make between 50-100k like they do in France….one problem….who would want to be a doctor then? And although we don’t know the entire bill, we do know there will be a panel to determine which health care procedures are appropriate (i.e cost-beneficial). Weird.
CT wrote: “But ideologues like DeMint and Newt Gingrich have made it pretty clear that they’re not interested in finding the best approach on public policy or in helping Americans cope with skyrocketing health care costs. They just want to win political battles.”
And whenever possible bring up the bogeyman Newt Gingrich to get the libs in a tizzy. If Ms. Tucker would take the time to actually listen to Mr. Gingrich, she would know that he has substantial proposals that would address the issue that aren’t just about winning political battles.
Chris…I would not even begin to talk about racism, so you will need to be enlightened somewhere else. I will say that on the Chris Matthews show Cynthia Tucker presumed to judge the people attending these Town Hall meetings by saying that 45% to 65% are there simply because Barak Obama is black. Are you as outraged at those comments as you are at mine? Probably not, because I would say you agree.
I wonder why a racist like Cynthia Tucker can make a living out of being a racist, but if you are white you can’t….. I wonder when we will all live by the same rules?
James Dickey was right about us: Progressives took a wrong turn on the way to “Aintry”, and are ill prepared for the vicious reaction from a world to be left behind.
Clearly Coles shot the police officer. How the police got it so wrong is beyond me. Coles was pistol whipping a homeless man over a bottle of beer when the the off-duty policeman came to find out what was going on. Why Davis would then shoot the policeman with a gun he didn’t own is beyond me. Coles owned a gun, but the police never recovered. They never found Davis with a gun. As far as Cooper is concerned, Davis and Coles were at the party. Again, Coles gun has never been recovered.
The witnesses that are now recanting were clearly not credible. One person said she saw things she could not possibly have seen. Another signed a statement that he couldn’t read.
Coles had a high paid lawyer, Davis didn’t. There’s your justice folks. This is why the S.Ct. granted a motion in this case they haven’t granted in 80 years.
All of liberals on here take 2 minutes to look the constitution up online, I’m sure it’s there. Then copy and paste onto this blog exactly where it says it is the responsibility of government to take tax dollars from my paycheck and pay for healthcare for ANYBODY. Legal residents, illegal aliens, temporary residents, high income earners, low income earners, A N Y B O D Y !!!!!! It is not there.
Here in esence is what we have the right to do and what we OUGHT to do
“That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government”,
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Promote domestic tranquility and promote general welfare seem justification enough for health and health care for all.
Cynthia,
I think your right-wing conspiracy is really just ordinary folks like me. I’m not political. Never been to a rally and don’t listen to talk radio. what I do see is a trillion dollar government plan on top of the hundreds of billions already spent in the last year. This crushing legacy of debt isn’t something I want to leave for my children.
No comments Add your comment
Mr WordPress
June 11th, 2009
3:59 pm
Hi, this is a comment.
To delete a comment, just log in, and view the posts’ comments, there you will have the option to edit or delete them.
Report this comment
Your morning jolt: Michael Thurmond offered U.S. Labor post | Political Insider
July 15th, 2009
9:51 am
[...] Cynthia Tucker says calls to fix traffic sound very familiar. [...]
Report this comment
niremetal
July 24th, 2009
8:40 pm
Why don’t they allow commenting on any of these??
Report this comment
Jerry Hansen
August 2nd, 2009
11:24 am
I do not understand why anyone would say officer Crowley acted stupidly because he responded to a 911 call. If Dr. Gates would have just shown his identification and proved that was his house, it would have been over with. Just like, Al Sharpton he chose to help divide the races once again. And, so what it that lady had told the 911 operator that two black men were breaking into that house, shouldn’t the caller do their best to describe what the perpetrators look like?
I didn’t understand Cynthia’s comments on This Week, until I read more about her. SAD
Report this comment
Larry Hill
August 2nd, 2009
2:26 pm
Your comments on “This Week” relating to Sgt. Crowley were met with a very good reponse by Michelle Maulkin,and it showed on your face.Al Hunt summarized the issue quite well.I suspect that Asthere are Cambridge polive officers who died while reponding to 911 calls in the middle of the night.As a physician,there have been several instances ov the years that ihave been called to the emergency room @3am or so,and when igo to introduce myselfand shake the patients hand,the reponse by the patient has been spit,anattempt at abite,head butt,kick or combinations thereof.
Report this comment
Tania L. Bowman
August 2nd, 2009
2:54 pm
Ms. Tucker did a great job On This Week refocusing the discussion of the Gate/police issue to this question: what was the Gate crime necessitating arrest? It is frightening that we don’t perceive the attack on the first amendment when we allow and encourage a police department to arrest a person for being obnoxiousness or rude.
Report this comment
Emanuel Towns II
August 2nd, 2009
4:01 pm
Congratulations:
Underneath the news radar is a law suit that portends to change the landscape of “too big to fail.”
The Henry Builders (Docket No. 09-0730CV) law suit tests a core American principle, can our national government choose who lives or who dies in the midst of an international financial calamity, or decide which companies are bailed out and which companies are left out.
This law suit is a direct attack upon the national government’s concept of “too small to be included” as embodied in the Economic Stabilization Act of 2008.
A Brooklyn family business and a senior citizen seek to have the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008, declared unconstitutional and forever removing from the American vernacular, “too little to be included.”
This is the only known direct attack on EESA on equal protection grounds.
The entire issue of what has happened to the rest of America as a result of the selective legislation to bail out the financial sector has been completely ignored by the national and local media.
However, the judicial declaration that EESA is unconstitutional will strike at the heart of the national program to bail out the select financial community and others the government claims are “too big to fail.”
It is time that the Henry Builder Case receives as much consideration as cases involving the constitutional rights of those who our government claims are terrorists.
America’s Left Out Campaign does not question the right of those who seek habeas relief to be heard by our courts and media outlets but insists that America’s only law suit that strives to put an end to the bailout of a class of one deserves equal attention.
This case is currently on appeal to the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals.
Three (3) days after the case was filed a District Court judge dismissed this vital action on the spurious grounds that the court did not have Article III standing.
The briefs filed with the 2nd Circuit patently establish that the lower court’s hasty ruling was erroneous.
Emanuel Towns II
P.R. Representative
America’s Left Out Campaign
leftoutcampaign@optonline.net
718-789-9390
Report this comment
Richard Harris
August 2nd, 2009
9:54 pm
Cynthia,
I saw you on ABC today and first I would like to thanks you for your Honest Level Headed Comments today! Michelle Malkin really offended me (being unemployed) with her statement implying that we are lazy and waiting for Unemployment Benefits to run out before we try to get a job. Here’s my stats: I was laid off and my annual salary was 100k plus, why in the hell would I be lying around comfortable with 1k a month and not trying to get back to where I was. Every day I apply for jobs in my field and I know I will finally find something even if I have to take a cut in payor travel to another City! Michelle needs a reality check thinking that she can get on National TV and represent the thoughts of the Unemployed. Maybe she is speaking for her sorry family members, and I’m sure I’m not the only one offended; I just hope they have the motivation to voice their opinion! I didn’t know you until today and I can assure you that you gained my upmost respect!
Thank Again
Regards,
Richard
Report this comment
What They Are Saying: 08.03.09 | AnnotatedOpinions.com
August 3rd, 2009
8:49 am
[...] Sotomayor’s skeptics are wrong [Atlanta Journal-Constitution] [...]
Report this comment
What They Are Saying: 08.05.09 | AnnotatedOpinions.com
August 5th, 2009
8:04 am
[...] Revisiting the American Dream [Atlanta Journal-Constitution] [...]
Report this comment
eli
August 8th, 2009
8:25 pm
related to a different article of yours… why do african-americans always play the race card when people don’t agree with them?? with all of your education and intelligence, can you not think of a better and less “chip on the shoulder” comeback? who do you think perpetuates the race card in these matters??? surely not those always crying “racism!!”
Report this comment
Mike
August 11th, 2009
12:53 pm
Ms. Tucker,
While I can agree with some of what you have said, I think that in practice your remedy will not solve the problem. How exactly does one measure leadership, for instance? Any correct answer to this question must include the word subjective and therein is the rub. There will still be complaints that whites who might be empaneled to judge a candidate’s leadership were biased if they “score high” for white candidates and the same will be said of minority panelists who “score high” for minority panelists. The Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King is generally recognized as a great leader by many Whites as well as many Blacks. On the other hand there are a good many Whites as well as a good many Blacks who do not see him as a great leader. Each reach their own conclusions based on their own subjective criteria.
Many people have written test anxiety and that needs to be acknowledged so that an appropriate mix of oral, verbal and hands-on questions should make up any test, but the test answers must be objective or the problem will not be solved. You seem to suggest that the test as administered was unfair and I think that since this test must be based on technical aspects of firefighting (disregarding how the questions were administered) that your presumption must be based solely on the fact that so few (if any) minorities actually passed the exam. You don’t seem to allow the possibility that they simply for whatever reason failed to pass the test because they did not know the material as well as those that did pass the exam.
I was being deliberately provocative here to make my point that you (I believe) made a subjective judgement as did I and how this is wrong. The military uses a combination of factors to include evaluation reports, test scores (both written and hands-on with very strict go or no-go criteria), physical fitness scores, oral exam scores and several other evaluations to determine one’s fitness for promotion. There are certainly some politics involved, but perhaps the civilian world should look and our well-integrated military as a model of how to do promotion right.
Report this comment
What They Are Saying: 08.12.09 | AnnotatedOpinions.com
August 12th, 2009
8:51 am
[...] Protestors and Medicare: bite the hand that feeds you? [Atlanta Journal-Constitution] [...]
Report this comment
Your morning jolt: A melody of murder and shopping in Atlanta | Political Insider
August 12th, 2009
9:42 am
[...] Cynthia Tucker on protestors who hate Medicare: Part II [...]
Report this comment
Bulling Protester
August 12th, 2009
12:52 pm
So this is your take on the issue and the people’s reaction to something they don’t fully understand or never been explained by the bumbling administration. Your stupid ridicule is just one more example of failure to explain what this flawed bill is about and how it affects everyone. You want to enlighten us “bright star,” explain how we’re going to pay for it without cutting medicare, medicad, or payment for services and remain revenue neutral. You can’t even begin, but you are one fine example of cognitive dissonance masquerading as journalist. The Daily Kos would love to have you explain the fine points of how this bill will benefit us all.
Report this comment
jt
August 12th, 2009
12:53 pm
Mrs. Tucker-
Whatever you do up there in Washington, please help to keep the federal goverment out of the VARSITY.
Report this comment
Get Real
August 12th, 2009
1:01 pm
Bullwinkle Protester, your protester friends DON’T want to understand this bill. Yelling socialism at town halls while taking the interstate there and collecting Medicare is asinine. If there was a legitimate issue with reforming Healthcare, where were these people when Bush was signing Medicare Part D? The costs of the Iraq war are a lot more than instituting health care reform, yet people such as yourself still oppose it. At Claire McCaskill’s town hall meeting yesterday, she asked those who receive Medicare benefits to raise their hands. 2/3rds of those in the frame raised their hands, yet still got up and said they didn’t want socialized medicine. It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.
Report this comment
SaveOurRepublic
August 12th, 2009
1:04 pm
As an independent Constitutionalist, I take issue with the further (big) government empowerment that the proposed socialized medicine plan enables.
- Page 838: ‘Home visitation programs for families with young children and families expecting children’.
Report this comment
terry greene
August 12th, 2009
1:06 pm
I think it’s awful about the outrage and hate expressed over something that we clearly don’t understand. I consider this time period as assessment/and planning prior to implementing. The lies I keep hearing people speak about being cut off machines and how they are going to be allowed to die. They are trying to narrow the bill down to what is good but can we give them a chance to do it. I don’t think congress representatives don’t help the issue also by making false accusations of what the plan is. in the long run they will be the ones who will be out of a seat. my advice. to both the people and congressman. stop listening to everything people say. Gets the facts… express your concerns but not in a hateful manner that makes you worse then them .We can only accomplish good with unity and cooperation not hate mail.outburts and death threats…
Report this comment
William
August 12th, 2009
1:09 pm
jt, believe me there are many more great eateries in D.C. than in this country town. The last thing any federal employee wants to do is visit some nasty roach/rat infested Varsity.
Report this comment
Bill
August 12th, 2009
1:14 pm
Once again white America is running scared. What will be, will be. There is not a thing we can do about it. We can rant and rave all day long, but it will get us no where.
Report this comment
Citizen of the World
August 12th, 2009
1:17 pm
Neither purely capitalist nor purely socialist systems work. That’s why we have a lot of the social programs we do already. We realized long ago that we could not leave the solution to certain challenges to the marketplace when there was no market in it.
The insurance companies have found a way to put the market in health care coverage — by cherry-picking customers, negotiating lower payments with providers, denying claims as often as possible, etc. — but how’s that working for us? It’s to the detriment of our society and, in the ultimate analysis, detrimental to the long-term capitalist interests of American businesses, which can’t compete with businesses in other countries that are not burdened with these costs.
Now, we have an opportunity to take a more socialist approach in this area, because this is the type of area where a socialist approach works best, but so many people are afraid of “socialism” it threatens the possibility.
What they can’t see is that much of the prosperity and quality of life we enjoy as middle-class citizens in the United States is a direct result of the socialist-type programs we already have.
We need to quit being so concerned with labels and more concerned with what will work best for us, and the status quo ain’t workin’.
Report this comment
Kyle
August 12th, 2009
1:18 pm
The issue is not that people don’t like the government provided medicare program…it’s that medicare is well on it’s way to going bankrupt. Most people that I know who are against Obama’s health care reform are worried that it will end up in a similar state. The best way to make health care more affordable for everyone is to give the power back to the people. Do away with HMOs. Health Care plans should more closely resemble PPOs or other High Deductible health plans. Give people the power to shop for their coverage, as well as, shop for their care. Competition is the only true way to slow down the rising costs.
Report this comment
Rickster
August 12th, 2009
1:19 pm
“Lies and loopy conspiracy theories don’t need a thread of logic, of course” – as Ms. Tucker has proven throughout her entire career as a opinion columnist.
Report this comment
Steve
August 12th, 2009
1:20 pm
Bill, why are you bringing Race into this?
Report this comment
Correction
August 12th, 2009
1:22 pm
This author of this article is ignorant of how our government is funded:
“(Please don’t respond that recipients paid into the program with their taxes; all government programs — from the U.S. Army to agricultural subsidies — are paid for with taxes.)”
Our government only derives a portion of its funding from taxes. Much of what the government requires to stay solvent (i.e., current on its obligations) comes from the sale of debt (treasuries). This means that in no small part, Medicare and other government programs are actually funded by bond holders, both domestic and foreign. That’s right – the Chinese are actually paying a good portion of Medicare, in addition to the taxes that only cover a part of the bill.
Report this comment
reservoirDAWG
August 12th, 2009
1:26 pm
Bill, what does this have to do with race. It doesn’t matter. This bill is dead in the water and Obozo will be a one term president. Good riddance.
Report this comment
Citizen of the World
August 12th, 2009
1:37 pm
One reason Medicare is about to go bankrupt is that it is designed only for old people who tend to be sicker than the general population. If we had Medicare for all, which the young, old, sick, well, rich and middle class, would all pay into, that would spread the costs, risks and benefits over most of the population, and it would not go broke. It would cover us all a lot more cheaply than our current system, and we would probably have better outcomes, like other countries.
As it stands now, we have abysmal records of longevity and infant mortality compared to countries with national programs, we spend more, and too many of are going bankrupt due to medical bills be can’t begin to pay.
Report this comment
EJ Moosa
August 12th, 2009
1:37 pm
So you are forced to contribute via taxes, and then because of this diversion of income, you must participate in Medicare.
Then, because you participate in Medicare, you must now support all other more complex and intrusive socialism with question.
Didn’t we hear that same logic with Affirmative Action? That if you benefited you could not be against it in the future?
Sorry, Cynthia, we are going to push back against any more socialism, despite it having been forced upon the public so far.
Report this comment
jt
August 12th, 2009
1:39 pm
William
Then carry your cullinary snob-arse back to the D.C. beltway.
I’m sure the “roach/rat infested” Varsity will not miss your pansy @ss.
Report this comment
the evil rich
August 12th, 2009
1:41 pm
Call it what you want, but when the government gets involved, it’ll SUCK!
Report this comment
Get Real
August 12th, 2009
1:44 pm
So will you be walking home from work EJ, or taking the socialist 285 home? Do you grow your own foods too? People like you should be the commie FDA out of business. Will you be walking on your next vacation since the fascist Air Traffic Controllers are bringing this nation down with their activities. Just pathetic.
Report this comment
Chris Salzmann
August 12th, 2009
1:52 pm
A group called 60 Plus has been attempting to convince senior citizens that national health care reform will require $500 billion in cuts to Medicare and result in denial of life-saving procedures. 60 Plus has even distributed a mailing which includes an out-of-context quote from President Obama saying, “Maybe you’re better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller.”
A few years ago, AARP hired an investigator who looked into 60 Plus and found that it was being was used as a front by the pharmaceutical industry during the 2002-03 push for a Medicare drug benefit.
ANOTHER RIGHT-WING ASTRO-TURF GROUP WITH LINKS TO THE BIG PHARMA!
Report this comment
Healthcare Worker
August 12th, 2009
1:56 pm
I do work in heathcare. I have worked in Canada. Most of you, especially the protesters, rather than thinking about these issues on your own act as ditto heads of your favorite talk show host. Any reasonable individual knows that our current healthcare system is unsustainable. Have you priced premiums for private pay insurance lately? Maybe you are the working class family that saw their average premium jump 9% last year with an average annual cost of more than $4,000 out of pocket. Those who think this is acceptable are in denial. And guess what, I don’t get to chose my own doctor with my current insurance plan nor are decisions often made between me and my doctor. The insurance company decides. Why don’t you get off your duff and ask those of us who actually work in the system how we think it can be improved. Contrary to right-wing propaganda Canada does not have a socialist healthcare system, it’s a social insurance system. Citizens choose any doctor they like and decision making is local. If you want the source for this information I’ll be happy to provide it. Why don’t you also ask Canadians how they like their system. You’d be surprised to know that their satisfaction rates are much higher than here in the U.S. This debate has undertones of anger aimed at the Obama administration that have nothing to do with healthcare reform and that’s a sad state of affairs because we urgently need reform before you and I go bankrupt from a healthcare debt.
Report this comment
Jonathan Gray
August 12th, 2009
1:59 pm
I’ve admired your appearance on T.V. for quite a few years. I don’t think you are being fair when you, using a broad brush, say that Medicare is a “single payer” plan. You leave some confusion in the listeners mind. There is a difference between single payer plans in which the medical staff are hired and paid by the government and those, as in Medicare, that are funded by the government , but the staff is independent.
…
And there, I think, is the problem–and a source of confusion. If the government opted for an universal single payer plan run by he government, the savings could be enormous, but the critics of “single payer” being socialist would have a point. I’m restricting my definition of socialism to include organizations and states that are completely managed by the government as in several Scandinavian nations or Veterans Admin. If the government opted to design a plan similar to Social Security, the plan might be called single player, but the opportunity to control costs might be lost.
Report this comment
Peadawg
August 12th, 2009
2:09 pm
Personally, I think the Democrats are running scared b/c they are being hit w/ so much resistance. They don’t know how to get everyone to agree w/ them.
Report this comment
Peadawg
August 12th, 2009
2:11 pm
Oh yeah…about dang time you let people blog on your columns!
Report this comment
Larry
August 12th, 2009
2:13 pm
At best, most people ain’t too smart. The so-called conservatives (dumb-redneck republicans) are just plain liars. They hate everything about President Obama and Democrats in general, there goal is to destroy our democracy by any means necessary.
Seniors love their Medicare but hate socialized medicine.
Union members love their union pay scale and benefits but hate air traffic controllers and baseball players when THEY have to go on strike.
Insurance companies say they can do a better job of supplying healthcare if we just give them a little more time. They’ve had over 50 years to improve, but still deny coverage, deny claims and add their profit to whatever the doctors decide to charge.
The bush-lovers didn’t mind spending a billion dollars a week on the phony war, but now spending money on our own people is socialism, a fate worse than death to them!
Report this comment
Kyle
August 12th, 2009
2:26 pm
Citizen of the World…What is your excuse for Social Security going bankrupt then? Until the Federal Government can run any large social program without busting the budget, I will be opposed to new social programs.
Adding a minimum of 46 million low income citizens to a government run “public option” of healthcare is a recipe for economic disaster. Especially when the government sets controls on how much doctors, hospitals, etc. can charge for services (maybe it’s not in this bill, but it is inevitable, see medicare). Many of our best and brightest will venture into different fields to support their familys instead of going to medical school because they will be able to make more money with less hassle in another line of business. The result will be declining levels of care and an eventual shortage of doctors resulting in longer wait times for procedures.
Report this comment
Don't tread on me
August 12th, 2009
2:28 pm
Ms. Tucker, could you do all of the south a favor and just stay in Washington for eternity? You don’t understand America or it’s founding principles. You tout welfare and should therefore move to Europe.
Oh, you and Jay Bookman have also caused readership to decline by 90%.
Report this comment
itstrue
August 12th, 2009
2:28 pm
They’re not a real movement, just a noise machine. Real movements have mass appeal, offer some kind of positive vision, and usually have support from big power players like business, trade associations, or national non-profits. They have none of these things, just some vague notion of socialism and a lot of fear. It’s not even a disagreement.
Only reasonable people can disagree with one another. If the pro-reform side wasn’t reasonable they would have already rammed single payer through without all this negotiation. For having a Democratic president, and sizable majorities in the senate and house, they’ve been pretty kind and welcoming to the opposition.
We’ve seen the high point of the anti-reform people. They jumped the shark when Palin started in about “death panels.” There’s no reasonable disagreement there. Just a bunch of craziness.
It’s time for the GOP to come to the table and answer the question, “What will it take to get you on board?”
With public opinion and political power the way it is, health reform will happen. Industry is on board, most of the public is on board, at least in a general sense.
As they say in DC, you’re either at the table or you’re on the menu. Despite how it may look in the Right Wing side of the media, blogosphere, or whatever, it’s political suicide to oppose this without at least looking like you want to work on it.
Once August dies down, and congress gets back to work, all this ’socialist’ rhetoric will sound pretty silly on the Senate floor, or in sitting down with the American Medical Association.
A bill will come together in September. Hopefully it’ll be a good one that covers everyone and brings costs down, while giving maximum consumer choice.
You can’t please everyone, but you can pass sensible legislation that helps to tackle some of the problems that America faces. And they will. I’ve never felt as sure as I do now.
Report this comment
Sunshine and Thunder
August 12th, 2009
2:29 pm
William:
So don’t eat at the Varsity. You’re going to get yourself sued posting such accusations about a business.
Chris Saltzman:
We don’t have a private health insurance market in the U.S. And you know it. We have a broken system so loaded down with governmental mandates and rules that it hardly works.
Report this comment
Don't tread on me
August 12th, 2009
2:30 pm
Ms. Tucker, by the way, did you know that your pal Chris Matthews gets less viewership than Larry King and PBS COMBINED? I saw Michelle Malkin school you a week ago on and could not help but wonder how anyone would ever listen to your opinion. Especially one of whom constantly brings race into issues where race is not a factor.
Report this comment
Don't tread on me
August 12th, 2009
2:31 pm
Quick question for the libs.
If these townhalls are are staged like you all say, please provide facts on WHO in the GOP has organized these protesters.
Also, if these “idiot racist townhallers” as you call them are so irrelevant then why are you talking about them?
Report this comment
Don't tread on me
August 12th, 2009
2:35 pm
Ms. Tucker, since you are an “objective” journalist, nudge nudge wink wink, why are you not concerned with democrats who have no idea what is in the bill?
Report this comment
oldmac
August 12th, 2009
2:37 pm
Funny how Obie said the (govt run) postal service was strugglin’ yet Fedex and UPS are doin’ just fine. Kinda makes a good point don’t he?
JB
Report this comment
Jimma Cata
August 12th, 2009
2:39 pm
Mr. Obama is making me look like Ronald Reagan.
Report this comment
itstrue
August 12th, 2009
2:40 pm
Don’t tread on me–
Why do you expect a newspaper columnist to be “objective?” Are Kyle Wingfield or Jim Wooten objective? It’s a point of view. Take it or leave it… or at least say what it is you disagree with.
Also, since when did a TV show’s ratings make them smarter or better? Sex and violence get ratings, not civil discussion.
Report this comment
Jimma Cata
August 12th, 2009
2:40 pm
oldmac, yeah, Mr. Obama just killed his own argument. I guess his teleprompter broke down. I’m sure Axelrod was steaming mad in the staged Obamacare audience.
Report this comment
I don't think so, honey
August 12th, 2009
2:41 pm
Has this woman looked up the definition of socialism ? Do you own a dictonary by chance ? Internet access for webster.com ? Nice try. You didn’t convince me of anything Cynthia Tucker… You’re just as snowed as the rest of them.
Report this comment
Don't tread on me
August 12th, 2009
2:43 pm
itstrue, I expect every newspaper columnist to be objective. If you want to know why the public has such disdain for journalism its because they have become the DNC talking points spokesmen.
And again, you fail to understand my point. Liberal shows tank. America is not liberal and the townhalls prove it. Thanks for playing.
Report this comment
nowretired
August 12th, 2009
2:43 pm
1. Because it is easier to get 10 second sound bites passed around the water cooler.
2. Dehumanize the opposition so the conspiracy seems more believable.
Report this comment
Chess
August 12th, 2009
2:47 pm
GOP = Dance puppets…dance
Report this comment
Fitzgerald
August 12th, 2009
2:49 pm
I get more entertainment from the bloggers than from the original article and writer. Way to go folks. Making my day.
Report this comment
Don't tread on me
August 12th, 2009
2:49 pm
DNC=uneducated welfare babies who can’t make a living on their own so they have to take from hard working people…
Report this comment
FightTheSmears
August 12th, 2009
2:49 pm
STOP MAKING THINGS UP. Nowhere did Palin talk about euthanasia in her statement on Facebook.
Report this comment
I don't think so, honey !
August 12th, 2009
2:50 pm
Healthcare Worker,
If Canada has such a wonderful healthcare system, why are you here in the United States ? If you don’t like our healthcare system, why are you a “healthcare worker” ? If you are in so much debt because of healthcare here, go back to Canada !!!! By the way, since you obviously don’t have a dictionary either, Canada does indeed have socialized medicine.
Report this comment
Robert Byrd (democrat) KKK member since 1952
August 12th, 2009
2:50 pm
The GOP is racist! Ah mean, Ah’ve been a KKK member for decades but that is nothing compared to the evil GOP!
Report this comment
itstrue
August 12th, 2009
2:51 pm
Don’t tread, you’re just plain wrong.
From Wikipedia, “column (newspaper)”
* It is a regular feature in a publication
* It is personality-driven by the author
* It explicitly contains an opinion or point of view
from thefreedictionary dot com:
Noun 1. newspaper column – an article giving opinions or perspectives
Liberals just go online more, and they’ve been showing up in droves at these town halls. I guess you’ll just call me a liberal know-it-all now. Whatever.
Report this comment
Bull Conor (Democrat)
August 12th, 2009
2:51 pm
Robert Byrd (democrat) KKK member since 1952, I’m with you, sur! I hosed down those crazy colored people in the 60s but the GOP is evil!
Report this comment
dan
August 12th, 2009
2:53 pm
Once again Cynthia hits the nail on the head….I agree with you as usual! And love seeing you on sundays “This Week” …you represent Atlanta at its best! YOU should be on Part 3 of the Real Housewives of Atlanta !!!
Report this comment
ThaMan
August 12th, 2009
2:54 pm
What happened to all of the passenger railroad companies when the government took over and started AmTrak? How much money does AmTrak make? Once the government gets it’s fingers in the health insurance industry, we’ll call it MedTrak. A liberal never met somebody elses money he didn’t want.
Report this comment
itstrue
August 12th, 2009
2:54 pm
“DNC=uneducated welfare babies who can’t make a living on their own so they have to take from hard working people…”
… just proves Tucker’s point re:
“They are fueled by emotion — anger, paranoia, anxiety.”
Report this comment
Don't tread on me
August 12th, 2009
2:55 pm
itstrue, again, go back and try to comprehend my point. (sigh) Again, my point is, Ms. Tucker has always been quick to post her rhetoric only to have it rebuked by facts. She has NOT read the bill nor does she realize that the backlash against the DNC will be catastrophic next year. She also has been known to play the race card against GOP members all while ignoring democrat racism.
HELLO ROBERT BYRD!
Report this comment
I don't think so, honey !
August 12th, 2009
2:56 pm
Ahhh…the old “racist” comeback….can’t you socialists come up with a MORE ORIGINAL comeback for once ? I mean, the “racist” thing is getting kind of old, don’t ya think !? LOL
Report this comment
Jimmy62
August 12th, 2009
2:56 pm
Actually it’s pretty obvious that the only way to meet all of what Obama is promising is to limit services to certain people, and the greatest cost savings are found at end of life care. So if you ahve to cut costs, eventually you end up with some group of bureacrats studying numbers and telling doctors what they can and can’t do. Is it a panel sitting there decided who lives and who dies on a case by case basis? No. But if your Grandmother cannot get the medication she needs to love longer because the government decided it’s not cost-effective…. You will probably think of it as a death panel somewhere, just as now when peoples’ needed care is rejected by their insurance company, they think of some jerk number cruncher somewhere who has no compassion.
The difference is that now we can, if we’re willing to spend the money, move to a different insurance company that has more compassion. But if the government starts decided what can and cannot be done in certain situations, the only other options will be to go outside the system illegally, or move to a different country. Except, of course, there aren’t many places left to move to where you can live your life without a government telling you how to do so.
At any rate, what Palin said was hardly a lie. Overdone, maybe, but simply a logical follow through from Obama has been saying about his plan.
Report this comment
Don't tread on me
August 12th, 2009
2:57 pm
itstrue, look up the statistics on democrat voters. The quality of a democrat voter tends to be the uneducated.
Oh, and no, I’m not angry or paranoid. I’m getting a “thrill up my leg” from all the backlash against the DNC and Obama.
Report this comment
Don't tread on me
August 12th, 2009
2:59 pm
dan, why would she want to be a real housewife of Atlanta? She hates rich people!
Report this comment
I don't think so, honey !
August 12th, 2009
2:59 pm
Here’s the shallow liberal thought process:
If you can’t think of something better to say, claim…..RACISM !
Report this comment
I don't think so, honey !
August 12th, 2009
3:03 pm
Oh…here we go again..playin the race card AGAIN. (yawn)
Report this comment
The Snark
August 12th, 2009
3:04 pm
Here’s another point, documented in Fareed Zakaria’s new book: Other western nations without mortgage interest deductions — including Canada — have homeownership rates that are as high or higher than the USA (currently a shade under 68%.)
Time to phase it out?
Report this comment
ThaMan
August 12th, 2009
3:04 pm
Cynthia and her cousin, the other Cynthia, never let facts get in the way of their arguments. Affirmative action at it’s best!
Report this comment
Don't tread on me
August 12th, 2009
3:06 pm
ThaMan, yeah, except this Cynthia has not blamed anything on the J-E-W-S.
Report this comment
I don't think so, honey !
August 12th, 2009
3:06 pm
You gotta love affirmative action! Cynthia must be proud….
Report this comment
coloneldoogle
August 12th, 2009
3:06 pm
yep anything the government runs is sh*t. Like the military…..
Report this comment
Don't tread on me
August 12th, 2009
3:09 pm
I wonder if Ms. Tucker ever thinks about how the DNC is screwing over her and her family. Nah, they would never do that. Democrats are too perfect.
Report this comment
Don't tread on me
August 12th, 2009
3:11 pm
coloneldoogle, funny you mention the military because libs want to end the military. Priceless.
Report this comment
BiteMe
August 12th, 2009
3:15 pm
Fitzgerald, I agree – CLASSIC entertainment!
Report this comment
Atlanta Native
August 12th, 2009
3:15 pm
So . . If the Bush administration was going to run the “new healthcare system” would all of you be in favor of it? In 4 to eight years (12 at the outside, though Biden is unelectable) the Republicans will be running the show, history shows it. Is that what you want? I see all the rants against Bush as an idiot, etc., but would you want someone like him, or the next republican president, in charge of your life? Remember FEMA?
I am for an expanded safety net of Medicare and Medicaid. That is not what is being pushed here. As for me being an ignorant redneck who does not understand the progressive values of the promoters of this system, I will tell you why it will end up as an oppressive monopoly. I present the following:
Do you remember learning about Teddy Roosevelt (a TRUE progressive)and the other “trust busters”? Do you recall the Miller Anti-Trust Act? It kept entities from creating monopolies by underselling all competition until they were all that were left. The government’s ability to outspend without a profit is the government doing what the progressives of the last century fought so hard to end. When monopolies were created it was not because the competitors had a flawed business model, it was because the aspiring trust could outspend them and then do whatever they wanted as a monopoly.
The assumption is that government will give better service. Ask yourself this: Do I get compassionate service from my monopoly cable company? Did the government split up Bell and AT&T in the 80’s because of their great service? Think of any single provider of s product or service – do they care about the customer? Of course not, they are the only game in town.
Also, power corrupts and those in power will do what is necessary to stay there. Arlen Specter switched parties so he could stay in power, no other reason. Most there wish to remain for the power, regardless of political affiliation. Also – regardless of initial promises of restraint, government always grows. Look at the social security number, the tax code, OSHA regulations, the ADA, and many others. Once government is in the business it will grow like a fungus.
Also, government jobs are a property right – so the people managing your health care will know they cannot be fired without a long and costly bureaucratic process. SO the cost of care will be balanced against the legal costs to fire the inept. Does that sound appealing to you? Remember the 911 operator slept on the job and caused people to die by delaying ambulances here? Her supervisors did not want to try to fire her because of the hassle involved. Coming to a clinic near you!
Do I not care about the unfortunate, the disabled, the chronically poor, the recently unlucky or the just plain lazy? No! As I said before, what we need is a safety net. Medicaid needs to be re-vamped to provide clinics so the emergency room can be for emergencies. For those who cannot pay – diagnostic tools need to be available at central locations. This is needed.
Read the Canadian and British newspapers – for a few weeks and you will see what is coming. I do. I am frightened. Cynthia – you should try it. Before you left for Washington you seemed to be growing up and thinking independently. Washington seems to have set you back, though your column does point out our slow, sad march into the soft tyranny of socialism.
Report this comment
itstrue
August 12th, 2009
3:16 pm
Don’t tread– Re: education and voting, wrong again. Nice dodge, BTW on the columnist thing. Facts is facts, after all.
Go to gallup dot com and look up the ‘08 elections.
‘08 Obama vs. McCain
College: 55 45
Postgrad: 65 35
In McCain’s defense, Obama did crush him in the “grade school” category, but how many people just went to grade school?
…more generally, Obama won and McCain lost. 53 to 46.
If you’re not angry yet, just wait. Enjoy that thrill while it lasts.
I’m done here. Gotta go “end the military.”
Report this comment
reservoirDAWG
August 12th, 2009
3:18 pm
“end the military”? What an idiotic statement.
Report this comment
bobs
August 12th, 2009
3:20 pm
If what Obama wants in Health care ever gets passed….what do you think will happen when there are too few doctors to handle the load? of course there will be rationing! Have you not seen how the current “government run” medical system works?
Less money and fewer doctors will most certainly lead to picking and choosing, which will lead to less care for the elderly. It’s how it works in other countries with socialized medicine.
A little logic is all that is required to deduce such an outcome.
Report this comment
ThaMan
August 12th, 2009
3:24 pm
And while you are at it, end the poe leece too! Dey always stickin dem noses in our killins and drug deals!
Report this comment
ThaMan
August 12th, 2009
3:25 pm
Don’t tread – give her awhile!
Report this comment
I don't think so, honey !
August 12th, 2009
3:25 pm
Itstrue,
Whew! I gotta hand it to ya, you’re almost as sarcastic as I am ! But you did forget to address one more insult to liberals…
the tired, worn-out “RACISM” accusations of people who dare to oppose Obamamunism…
Report this comment
Citizen of the World
August 12th, 2009
3:26 pm
Kyle, I don’t have an “excuse” for Social Security going bankrupt, but I can posit some possible reasons: One, when Social Security was first established, it kicked in at age 65, which was beyond the average life expectancy. Now, even though average life expectancy has gone up considerably, politicians don’t have the guts to raise the age of eligibility, so the payouts extend for many more years than what was originally calculated for. Also, people don’t have Social Security taxes taken out beyond a certain income (it’s cut off around $100,000 or so) so there’s not enough money coming in.
There may be other reasons of which I’m unaware, but just because there are problems with a program, we shouldn’t throw the baby out with the bath water. We recognized that our seniors were living in abject poverty and this program was a way to keep this from continuing on a massive scale. It could be fixed if politicians would “man up” to seniors and tell them things have to change to preserve the program.
Now, we see citizens going under on a massive scale because of our current health care system and we’re trying to do something about that. Will the solution be perfect? No, but it will be a step in the right direction.
Report this comment
ncgreybr
August 12th, 2009
3:29 pm
Healthcare Worker: I get Canadians in my store all the time. I ALWAYS ask them about their healthcare and immediately they will start shaking their heads. “You Americans need to stop listening to Limbaugh and those other people and learn something for yourselves. I have my own doctor. No one decides what I can do or can’t do. I don’t have to wait any longer for surgery in Canada than you do here in the US.”
I have NEVER met a Canadian who had anything bad to say about their healthcare plan BUT who says we have to pattern ours after theirs? Why not take the best of each of the plans around the world? After all, EVERY major country in the world, except us, has some form of universal healthcare AND every country around the world gives better care than we get in the USA.
Google: healthcare ratings.
Report this comment
Huckleberry
August 12th, 2009
3:36 pm
Speaking of Washington & Atlanta restaurants… Five Guys Burgers is highly over-rated. Those old DC-area reviews about being the best burger yadda yadda tat they post on the walls must have come from a town sorely lacking in burger options.
The cut-on-the premises greasy fries are very good. The brownbag gimmick is lame, and messy as well. As for the burger, well, something eatable? Sure. The best burger? Not even close. I’d take a Fuddruckers any day over a Five Guys, and I’m willing and do drive longer and pay more for it.
Yeah, I’m off topic but so what, it’s late in the thread anyway, it’s all dumb points and name-calling by now. I skipped lunch today and now I’m starving and only thinking about food.
Report this comment
just the facts
August 12th, 2009
3:43 pm
Dear “I don’t think so” – Like Canada, Japan also has universal healthcare coverage. I lived there for a year and much of my family still does. It is not flawless, but last time I checked, it seems to be working – they spend approximately one third per capita (let me repeat that – ONE THIRD PER CAPITA) compared to the United States. Yet the Japanese have one of the longest life expectancies in the world. And last time I checked, Japan is far from being a “socialist” country. I lived there, its a great system and a great country. Before you start with your spurious personal attacks to undermine my credibility, don’t get me wrong, I love this country. But the argument that a government run healthcare system (much less the one which is currently being proposed, which is far from that) will be an unmitigated disaster, is hyperbole at best but more likely, disengenuous panic mongering.
Report this comment
Thomas - Los Angeles
August 12th, 2009
3:43 pm
The real reason the Senator is so quick to comment negatively on Sarah Palin is because Sarah Palin fights for free-market American individualism. Obviously the Senator believes a handful of elites in Washington can make better decisions than average American Citizens. The Senator must think that transfering life and death health treatment decisions from American Citizens to the State is a good idea. We the People do not. Neither does Citizen Sarah. Had the Senator taken the extra step to check the facts she would have found that Citizen Sarah attatched a bibliography to her statement on ” Health ” Care backing up her statement. Sarah Palin is the only person who is making any sense right now on this issue. Common Sense. GO SARAH !
Report this comment
Class of '98
August 12th, 2009
3:47 pm
It’s amazing Liberals go on ad naseum about how irrelevant Palin is, and then proceed to write multiple columns about her every week. For someone they claim to be so “unconcerned” about, they certainly are concerned with her.
This now-unemployed lady in Alaska now gets roughly a thousand times more media attention that the idiot whose title is Vice President of the United States.
Any good illusionist will tell you it’s all about misdirection, misdirection, misdirection. Pay no attention to what my right hand is doing, just focus on my left hand.
Report this comment
Chris Salzmann
August 12th, 2009
3:48 pm
FightTheSmears August 12th, 2009 2:49 pm SAID: STOP MAKING THINGS UP. Nowhere did Palin talk about euthanasia in her statement on Facebook.
CHRIS SAYS: “”"The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s “death panel” so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level of productivity in society,” whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.”"”"____Sarah Palin
So what don’t you understand regarding Palin’s statement about people having to stand in front of “Obama Death Panels” where their worth to society is measured and whether they are therefore worthy to be treated or left untreated (and by implication left to die). Why use “Death Panels”??? Uhhhh, that seems pretty clear to me and also to a host of Republicans who called her statement “NUTS” or “SCARE TACTICS”.
The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s “death panel” so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level of productivity in society,” whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.____Sarah Palin
Report this comment
Kyle
August 12th, 2009
3:50 pm
Citizen of the World…the politicians have done more than just not “man up.” They have made decisions that have helped push it towards bankruptcy…it is as simple as that. What makes you think they will make better decisions when running a public health care option?
If health care coverage was simplified (eliminate HMOs, health insurance pays a % of costs, never 100%) and people were given enough information to shop for care (mandated price lists), the rising health care costs would be stabalized due to the added competition. Unfortunately, the insurance lobbyists on K-street don’t want this solution because it will increase competition for their constituents…additionally the dems/repubs won’t push for this kind of solution because it will decrease some of their power.
Report this comment
Jake
August 12th, 2009
3:51 pm
Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security are all socialistic. While that approach may not be ideal for say farming, it’s auperior to the rampant capitalism gone amok that is the cause of our current economic problems. Okay, capitalism and government gone amok.
Report this comment
Citizen of the World
August 12th, 2009
3:52 pm
I don’t know why everyone is so upset that there might be some sort of sensible cut backs on end-of-life care, when well there should be.
My father-in-law was obviously only hours away from drawing his last breath when a doctor came in wanting to “check his electrolytes.” Was this going to make my father-in-law better or extend his life in any way? No, but it was going to add to his suffering and it was a way for the hospital to rack up another bill. We told the doctor no, no more, but if we hadn’t been there, they would have carried out this painful, unnecessary procedure just to try to make more money.
Report this comment
Chris Salzmann
August 12th, 2009
3:54 pm
Jimmy62 August 12th, 2009 2:56 pm SAID:
Actually it’s pretty obvious that the only way to meet all of what Obama is promising is to limit services to certain people, and the greatest cost savings are found at end of life care. So if you ahve to cut costs, eventually you end up with some group of bureacrats studying numbers and telling doctors what they can and can’t do.
CHRIS SAYS:
So Jimmy, I presume you’ve read the bill? Good, so for once we can have a substantive discussion because I too have read the bill. Where in the bill does it say that bureaucrats will tell doctors how to treat their patients. Also, isn’t this what is done right now by insurance companies?
Report this comment
Harold
August 12th, 2009
3:55 pm
Sarah Palin is not lying.
But this article like many in the liberal media community spend most of their time twisting the words of people like Sarah Palin. Nothing in this article describes who Sarah Palin was actually talking about which is typical of the liberal media.
Sarah Palin was talking about Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel who is a key health care advisor to the Obama administration. Well who the heck is this character? I know who he is, but does Cynthia Tucker know? Of course she doesn’t know who he is.
Anyway, that’s the way the state run media works and that’s the way the town hall meetings will be reported. Anger, gun toting, pickup truck driving, religious bible toting, ignorant Nazi sympathizers crowding the arena’s spewing misinformation about a kindly sincere health care bill designed to simply protect the masses from themselves.
Yes the bill itself is very entertaining just like this article, a work of fiction just the same.
Report this comment
Ray Pugh
August 12th, 2009
3:57 pm
Pure capitalism isn’t ideal for farming either Jake…
Report this comment
Chris Salzmann
August 12th, 2009
3:59 pm
Thomas – Los Angeles August 12th, 2009 3:43 pm SAID:
The real reason the Senator is so quick to comment negatively on Sarah Palin is because Sarah Palin fights for free-market American individualism. Obviously the Senator believes a handful of elites in Washington can make better decisions than average American Citizens. The Senator must think that transfering life and death health treatment decisions from American Citizens to the State is a good idea. We the People do not. Neither does Citizen Sarah.
CHRIS SAYS: Hmmmm interesting. So, you’re saying that citizens who have health insurance right now are making decisions on what treatments to have or not to have. The private health insurance companies allow that? Which planet do you live on?
Thomas – Los Angeles August 12th, 2009 3:43 pm SAID: Had the Senator taken the extra step to check the facts she would have found that Citizen Sarah attatched a bibliography to her statement on ” Health ” Care backing up her statement. Sarah Palin is the only person who is making any sense right now on this issue. Common Sense. GO SARAH !
CHRIS SAYS: Yeah, this lady who couldn’t name one newspaper she reads when asked about it. Heck, she didn’t even think of naming her hometown Wasilla paper.
Report this comment
The Last Believer
August 12th, 2009
4:02 pm
The AJC should print your entire column – I can’t find your usual direct or indirect remarks that this, like all bad things, are the fault of George W. Bush and that the only entity on the planet that can save us from this horrible crisis is Obama.
Report this comment
lovelyliz
August 12th, 2009
4:03 pm
I guess lying okay if you doing in the name of Jesus Christ, Ronald Reagan and the wallet?
Report this comment
whynot
August 12th, 2009
4:07 pm
Sarah Palin – for love of God – quit blogging all day long and pick up a book and educate yourself.
You are an embarrassment to the Republican Party.
Report this comment
Chris Salzmann
August 12th, 2009
4:07 pm
bobs August 12th, 2009 3:20 pm SAID: If what Obama wants in Health care ever gets passed….what do you think will happen when there are too few doctors to handle the load? of course there will be rationing! Have you not seen how the current “government run” medical system works?
CHRIS SAYS: Yes I have. My mother lives in Germany, is on the government health care and the only complaint she has is that she has to pay a copay of 10 Euros for medication and 15 Euros to see her physician. Have you lived in a country with “socialized” medicine?
bobs August 12th, 2009 3:20 pm SAID:Less money and fewer doctors will most certainly lead to picking and choosing, which will lead to less care for the elderly. It’s how it works in other countries with socialized medicine.
CHRIS SAYS: My mother in Germany, lives in a big city, but can make an appointment and see her physician the next day with an appointment. When she gets there, she usually has a wait of approximately 10-15 minutes. I know this because I’ve taken her on numerous occasions. I, on the other hand, living in Atlanta, using my employer provided group plan, usually have to wait a week for an appointment, to see my primary care physician. And once I get there, the wait times can be anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour.
Yeah, our system is just peachy. BTW, name me one industrialized western country with “socialized” medicine that wants to do it the American way?
Report this comment
Atlanta Native
August 12th, 2009
4:08 pm
Just the Facts – I think the life expectancy in Japan has a lot more to do with diet, exercise and lifestyle than the health care. Think about it – the Sumo wrestlers are the only people generally that big there. One Wal-Mart on Saturday has more corpulent people than all the Sumo in Osaka.
Report this comment
Harold
August 12th, 2009
4:09 pm
Sarah Palin is lying.
But many of those commenting here spend most of their time listening to people like Sarah Palin. Clearly these conservative posters here haven’t actually bothered to educate themselves on the issues they whine about – typical of those who love conservative media.
Sarah Palin was rambling about a fictitious governmental death panel in an attempt to frighten stupid conservatives and to prop up support from her clueless base.
Anyway, that’s the way the conservative media works and that’s the way the town hall meetings will be reported. Fun loving, educated, spontaneous, unscripted, decent, logical, true Americans calmly joining town hall meetings to engage in a honest discussion.
Yes conservatives are very entertaining; however everything they say is pure fiction.
Report this comment
righty
August 12th, 2009
4:09 pm
“At long last, a few responsible Republicans are chastising their conservative colleagues for the distortions, exaggerations and outright lies they have used to denounce healthcare reform.”
So apparently only those RINOs who smear conservative principles can be counted as those “telling the truth”? What a pathetic, partisan statement. It is obvious from the townhall meetings and in news reports that many conservatives are the only ones who have actually taken the time to read what’s in the bill and we do not want the ideas spelled out in the bill to come to fruition. All they’re doing is repeating and commenting on what’s in the bill, but I guess that makes them “liars” in the minds of democrats.
And let’s get one thing straight, conservatives are not opposed to health care reform in the general sense of the term. What they are opposed to is the government-run-path-to-single-payer-system proposed by Obama, Pelosi, and Ried. Conservatives are simply trying to voice their belief that the government is not the end-all solution to healthcare problems. So do not say that conservatives are opposed to healthcare reform; what they are opposed to is the “reform” spouted by the democrats which everyone has now begun to associate with the term.
Report this comment
Harold
August 12th, 2009
4:16 pm
“Conservatives are simply trying to voice their belief that the government is not the end-all solution to healthcare problems.”
Conservatives don’t actually know what they are saying. Remember they are just reading a script written for them by insurance companies. Try actually talking to them. They don’t even understand the simple basics of healthcare are the options available.
Conservatives simply cannot backup their statements on healthcare reform with actual facts or even civil dialogue.
Report this comment
CJ - Atlanta
August 12th, 2009
4:17 pm
Cynthia your writings are just full of crap!! You not only hate your own race, whites and now you hate the elderly. Thank God the AJC dumped your butt.
Report this comment
Chris Salzmann
August 12th, 2009
4:19 pm
righty August 12th, 2009 4:09 pm SAID: And let’s get one thing straight, conservatives are not opposed to health care reform in the general sense of the term. What they are opposed to is the government-run-path-to-single-payer-system proposed by Obama, Pelosi, and Ried.
CHRIS SAYS: And where did you read that this is a “government-run-path-to-single-payer-system”??? According to this plan, private health insurance companies will be allowed to enroll customers, though, after a 5 year period, they will be required to follow minimum care standards. Most people will continue being enrolled in private health insurance plans. Even President Obama has said that he is opposed to having a Canadian style single payer system in this country.
Report this comment
JackLeg
August 12th, 2009
4:20 pm
You seem to start out your opiniated drivel with exactly what you accuse others of doing, lies and loopy conspiracy theories. You obviously live in an alternate reality; Medicare is a scam and does not work. According to the GOA it is rife with fraud and the care IS sub-par. But I guess you would not know anything about that. Are you on Medicare? Then how could you possibly say “It is generous to its recipients, probably more generous than it should be”; and better yet here is an out right lie” And its recipients report high levels of satisfaction with the program, so they clearly believe that the government is running the program well.” You obviously have never had to deal with the Medicare or Medicaid, and you don’t know anybody that is on either. That is one of the big reasons all of these senior citizens are in an uproar. They are old not stupid.
Now more lies from you” Perhaps some of them don’t even realize that Medicare is a government program. Rep. Robert Inglis (R-S.C.) told The Washington Post that, at a recent town-hall meeting, a man stood up and told him to “keep your government hands off my Medicare.” Did you know that the monies allocated to Medicare and Medicaid is NOT held for that purpose? It is spent by our government on whatever project they want. That is what he was speaking about. So please stop the lies.
Here is another lie, by you, have you even read this bill? If you had then maybe you could tell the truth about it. “That brings me to my second favorite bit of cognitive dissonance — the idea that Democrats would approve “death panels,” as Sarah Palin put it, to decide whether the frail and the elderly should be euthanized. Hogwash. Conservatives who say so are simply lying outright.” This is not hogwash as you put it, it is in the bill that they would try to talk to the elderly to see if they should get the prescribed treatment, or would it be in the “Best interest of society for you to NOT get the prescribed treatment”
You and your kind are the exact reason people do not want this bill. Not a single democrat; including you, have read this bill. You expect us to follow Obozo blindly over the cliff, sorry we won’t. So tell me where is Obozo going to get the trillions of dollars to pay for this? Even the GAO says it is unsustainable.
Bottom line the, there is a difference between reform and take over. Obozo is looking for a take over, and if he gets it then the government will control close to 52% of our GDP, that is on par with every socialist country in the world, and more than some.
To do a true “Healthcare Reform” there is several things that can be done. First make laws that providers can cross state lines. Make the court system a loser pays, especially in the medical field. Then the big one, how about money that is deducted from our pay for these services is available ONLY for these services.
Report this comment
Joe
August 12th, 2009
4:22 pm
Hey Tucker. I forgot to drop you a line and congradulate you on your demotion. LOL… Thats what one gets for being so far left in such a bright red state…..
Report this comment
Citizen of the World
August 12th, 2009
4:23 pm
I’d like to know, specifically, what the conservatives on this blog would like to see in the way of health care reform.
Report this comment
Brad Steel
August 12th, 2009
4:23 pm
Sarah Palin should be thankful that you can’t be euthanized for terminal stupidity.
Report this comment
Nan
August 12th, 2009
4:24 pm
Say what you want about socialized medicine, you won’t see people in Sweden or Canada holding bake sales and spaghetti feeds trying to raise money to pay for a sick kid’s cancer treatments. If the U.S. system is so great, why are so many people denied care or dying because they can’t afford their medications?
Report this comment
Chris Salzmann
August 12th, 2009
4:25 pm
Name me one conservative “grass roots” (though the term should be “astro-turf”) organization lobbying, protesting, organizing against Health Care Insurance Reform that is not financially backed by corporate health care, insurance or pharmaceutical interests. MOST, if not ALL, are essentially offshoots of corporations trying to protect their profits at the cost of the general good of the public.
So there’s your challenge folks.
Report this comment
Californication
August 12th, 2009
4:25 pm
I wonder why we are trying to penalize 90% of the population so that the 10% can have healthcare. Isn’t that the opposite of a democracy? By the way if we were not paying for the illegal alien care then we would not have this issue, your rates are high to cover the uninsured…
Report this comment
Californication
August 12th, 2009
4:26 pm
I don’t want my tax dollars going for abortions.
Report this comment
George American
August 12th, 2009
4:26 pm
MS. TUCKER, YOUR RESERVE-RACIST RANTS PROMOTING SOCIALISM ARE NOT WELCOME HERE IN THE SOUTH!!!
Report this comment
itstrue
August 12th, 2009
4:29 pm
I don’t think so, honey– re: racism, I thought tha man’s comments proved that point for me. No need to rehash.
Report this comment
jt
August 12th, 2009
4:30 pm
CHRIS SAYS: My mother in Germany, lives in a big city, but can make an appointment and see her physician the next day with an appointment. When she gets there, she usually has a wait of approximately 10-15 minutes. I know this because I’ve taken her on numerous occasions. I, on the other hand, living in Atlanta, using my employer provided group plan, usually have to wait a week for an appointment, to see my primary care physician. And once I get there, the wait times can be anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour.
jt says- well most women in Germany have hairy armpits.
That don’t mean that American women should have them.
Report this comment
Had-enough
August 12th, 2009
4:31 pm
Cynthia you are nothing less then a liar!! Let’s not forget that Medicare was intended as a safety net for those seniors who couldn’t afford coverage because they “worked” all their lives and where for the most part unable to work and did pay into the fund.
Medicare’s sister program “MEDICAID” for citizens UNDER 65 have distroyed Medicare because the lazy young people won’t work and spend all the money they DON’T have!!! Period, end of story
Report this comment
Trig Palin - The Trig Palin 5K Fun Fund Run
August 12th, 2009
4:32 pm
Will you please run in the 1st Annual Trig Palin 5K Fun Fund Run?
The funds raised will be used to insure long-term health care for me that after my mother’s certain euthanasia after age 65.
Report this comment
jconservative
August 12th, 2009
4:34 pm
Harold said: “Sarah Palin was talking about Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel…”
jconservative said:
Emanuel is a cancer speccialist & a medical ethicist who is the man most responsible in this country for fighting the efforts of those who want to use euthanasia as an end of life medical practice. He has been the main warrior fighting the battle against euthanasia for over 20 years.
Read his books. He has published about 5 on the subject.
They are easy reads written in plain English with a minimum of medical jargon. If I can understand them anyone can.
Unlike his brother he is a somewhat conservative fellow.
Report this comment
dw
August 12th, 2009
4:36 pm
Cynthia,
You mention “They are fueled by emotion — anger, paranoia, anxiety”. Kinda like the election of a Democrat last election. That must have been a wrong move too.
Report this comment
tj
August 12th, 2009
4:44 pm
What would Miss Tucker know, she hasn’t read the bill either, most of the Dummycrats in congress havent read the bill, at least thats how they answer thier questions when someone backs them in the corner with a question that pertains to something written in the bill, or they just plain out lie about it!
Miss Tucker, you should not anger the grey hairs, they are the ones who swung the vote in favor of your supreme leader. They are the exact ones who are going to vote all dummycrats out of office in 2010, and NOBAMA in 2012.
Miss Tucker, You are the Racist Socialist here, Not any of us!
Report this comment
Jackie
August 12th, 2009
4:47 pm
A bit of research by anyone caring to find out if those rants about “socialized medicine” and “taking away our rights to medical care” would reveals one universal truth from all those countries that have single payer systems; has anyone ever read a report about citizens of any of those countries rioting and publicly demonstrating about how ineffective their medical care happens to be?
Report this comment
dw
August 12th, 2009
4:50 pm
Cynthia,
Answer who gets treatment when there isn’t enough available to be done in a timely manner for all who need it. Who decides who gets and who doesn’t. Government bureaucracy and bureaucrats! That is why people don’t like this proposal. Also the huge tax burden.
You came up with a 46 million uninsured “number” in a recent opinion of your’s in the AJC. Did you go count all 46 million? Are you counting illegal aliens. Because of the status of “illegal” they should not be given services. Too bad so sad.
But if you and your like-minded get this pushed through, they will make a nice addition to the liberal voting base. Not that Dems would ever have ulterior motives. They are incapable of such (LOL).
Also BHO says “no pulling the plug on grandma”. I don’t believe it. This proposal and supporters (including BHO) are good to go on pulling the plug on unborn children that are full of potential. So what would stop those people from eventually supporting the same for grandma, who’s potential is going down daily. And don’t tell me the unborn aren’t alive, because then nothing would come from an non-living being and you wouldn’t be so worried about having the ability to get rid of them as you see fit.
I know this will fall on your “deaf” ears, but it is my 2 cents.
Report this comment
jconservative
August 12th, 2009
4:52 pm
Citizen of the World August 12th, 2009 4:23 pm
I’d like to know, specifically, what the conservatives on this blog would like to see in the way of health care
————
I would like to see the costs associated with the 30 million baby boomers who will go on Medicare & Medicaid in the next 20 years brought under some control. This year we will spend about 1 trillion dollars on Medicare/Medicaid hospitalization. If the costs remain the same as this year, by the year 2029 we will have spent 30 trillion dollars
on Medicare/Medicaid hospitalization. But, of course, the cost will not be the same, cost are going up 12% a year.
Question to you Citizen of the World: If you are an American taxpayer, are you prepared to pay this?
2nd question: Medicare/Medicaid hospitalization will have no money in the year 2019. What will you do with the 20 million old people on non-existent Medicare/Medicaid?
That is what this conservative would like to see in the way of health care reform.
So far not one member of congress or member of the administration has addressed the issue.
The figures are on the Treasury Dept website. Look them up for yourself.
Good day!
Report this comment
Captain Midnight
August 12th, 2009
4:54 pm
When all else fails, cry racism. If that doesn’t work, graffiti yourself.
Report this comment
Bromack
August 12th, 2009
4:55 pm
Ms Tucker,
That group of 40 to 65 percent white protesters who you claim have a problem with Obama because he is a “black President”, have no problem with Michael Steele who is the Chairman of the RNC. I think somehow, you’re minimizing policy disagreements in order to promote a racial agenda (BTW..I’m black and have mixed feelings about this bill).
On your point regarding “death panels,” its my understanding the “Obama end of life counseling” starts when you’re 65…. not two minutes after you’ve been declared terminally ill… but then again, it sounds like you’ve spent as much time reading this bill as I have.
Report this comment
Timothy Horrigan
August 12th, 2009
4:56 pm
Maybe Lisa Murkowski just doesn’t like QUITTERS!
Report this comment
ncgreybr
August 12th, 2009
4:57 pm
Hey Jack Leg: Are you on Medicare? My mother was on Medicare for 20+ years and NEVER had a problem. Gall bladder surgery and cataract surgery when she was in her late 80’s. Hip surgery in her early 80’s NEVER a problem! Her care was NEVER “sub-par”. Talk about something that you know about.
Report this comment
ncgreybr
August 12th, 2009
4:59 pm
Bromack: I’ll guarantee you that if Michael Steele was President, they would have a problem. Kind of like that woman the other night lamenting about how “It’s not our America any more”.
Report this comment
SARA
August 12th, 2009
5:00 pm
I briefly looked through the blogs today and notice the posting time — What has that got to do about anything — either all of you are on some type of government “assistance”/unemployed and getting checks/or you are just filty rich and you think that you have the right to complain about health reform. You should also read the article that the CEO of Coca-Cola wrote today supporting the health care reform. I said it once and I say it again — Health reform is not the reaaaal issue. This all started last year in November when the best candidate WON!!! get over it!! and you need to start looking for potential candidates because he is going to have a SECOND term and all the blogging in the world won’t stop that!!! LOOSERS!!!!
Report this comment
George American
August 12th, 2009
5:05 pm
SARAH PALIN WAS RIGHT TO DEFEND HER RETARDED CHILD AGAINST THE THREAT OF GOVERNMENT SPONSORED EUTHANASIA.
THE DEMOCRATS HAVE NO PROBLEMS KILLING BABIES!!!
Report this comment
Captain Midnight
August 12th, 2009
5:06 pm
Sara, quick,while you got your crystal ball out give us the lottery numbers!
Report this comment
Trig Palin 5K Fun Fund Run
August 12th, 2009
5:07 pm
Will you please run in the 1st Annual Trig Palin 5K Fun Fund Run?
The funds raised will be used to insure long-term health care for me that after my mother’s certain euthanasia after age 65.
Report this comment
jt
August 12th, 2009
5:07 pm
Citizen of the World
August 12th, 2009
4:23 pm
“I’d like to know, specifically, what the conservatives on this blog would like to see in the way of health care reform.”
President Obama himself described 100’s of billions in fraud, waste, and abuse in the current system.
Any “reform” should address AND remedy this before throwing MORE money at the problem.
Report this comment
the evil rich
August 12th, 2009
5:07 pm
“tax the rich, healthcare for the poor, ’til there are rich no more”
(revised, 10 Years After, 1971)
Report this comment
Citizen of the World
August 12th, 2009
5:08 pm
But, jconservative, how are Medicare & Medicaid costs to be brought under control if we don’t have the dreaded (acc. to conservatives) “bureaucrat coming between you and your doctor”?
I’m prepared to pay more taxes, but actually, I’d prefer that those in the highest income brackets (whose taxes were cut by Bush) pay more taxes. They can afford it more than I can and still maintain a very high quality of life.
Report this comment
Brad Steel
August 12th, 2009
5:08 pm
Does the health care plan euthanize people for stupidity?
Maybe that’s Palin’s issue.
Report this comment
ThaMan
August 12th, 2009
5:08 pm
Brad Steele – you’d better be thankful too!
Report this comment
Citizen of the World
August 12th, 2009
5:11 pm
But, jt, how does eliminating waste, fraud and abuse ensure that your family will be able to buy into an affordable policy if you get laid off from your job — or even be able to buy into a policy at all if you should be so unfortunate as to have a pre-existing condition?
Report this comment
Algonquin J. Calhoun
August 12th, 2009
5:12 pm
Bullwrinkle, shut your mouth and listen and you might actually learn what the health care bill is about. Your vehement opposition to it has nothing to do with increasing the deficit. It only has to do with the color the President sports. You are one of the morons running around , screaming he wasn’t born in the United States. Now, hear this penis breath, the bill will pass! Screw off!
Report this comment
MikeB
August 12th, 2009
5:13 pm
Its one thing to go on Medicare when you have paid taxes, plus have had your own health insurance during your working years.
Its quite another to not pay taxes and go on the country’s healthcare roles well before those people who are satisfied with Mediacare have.
I too am ticked off tho only in my 40’s, I have worked and paid into both private health insurance, and taxes. Why should able bodied people who could do likewise but have not, get similar to what I have worked for?
Why should my standard of care diminish to absorb the increased proposed population that would be covered by this new “healthcare reform”?
The medical community can hardly cover the present situation, how would they cover the needs of more people? Why would they be motivated to do so givin that a component of this reform is to manage what doctors can charge for operations, and other care, more than at present.
The proposed healthcare reforms will negatively effect the quality of care for the presently insured, it will scare away students from a career in medecine, all to provide care to a segment of people that are on the dole and always will be, and would show their thanks to the bureaucrats responsible for this fiasco, by voting them into another term.
I am not saying that people who cannot take care of themselves should be ignored, but if you are a lazy do nothing, why are you entitled to what I work for, and what a good majority of those retired folks on medicare have? And why Ms. Tucker do you continue to play this issue like “its no big deal” “Idon’t see what all the fuss is about”. Sorry, but you are very wrong on this one. Obama and his machine has his hooks in you good.
Report this comment
ncgreybr
August 12th, 2009
5:14 pm
ALSO Bromack: Ask Johnny Issacson when the counseling starts. He’s the one that put it in the bill. It starts when THE PATIENT requests it. He put it in so people would get “living will counseling” and not be charged for it. YOU scare mongers created the “Death squad” hoax!
Report this comment
ncgreybr
August 12th, 2009
5:17 pm
MikeB: Do you privately have health iinsurance or is it with your employeer?
Report this comment
Captain Midnight
August 12th, 2009
5:21 pm
Algonquin,If I had to guess I’d say your vehement support to it has nothing to do with the actual contents of the bill. It only has to do with the color the President sports.
Report this comment
ncgreybr
August 12th, 2009
5:23 pm
Since I have other things to do…like go to an early dinner with friends.
MikeB: Either way…if your employer fires you what are you going to do for healthcare? Take a Vobra package? Then you will have to pay your share AND their share.
If you have private insurance, what if you get colon cancer next year and the insurance company decides it is a “preexisting condition? An employee of mine (I can’t afford to offer insurance and she couldn’t afford to buy it privately) found out she has colon cancer and just had it removed. She and her husband will lose their house and any money they have in savings to pay for it and will still owe probably one hundred thousand dollars. What will you do? Die?
Report this comment
jt
August 12th, 2009
5:29 pm
Citizen of the World -
Eliminating fraud, waste, and abuse will NOT ensure that my “family will be able to buy into an affordable policy if you get laid off from your job — or even be able to buy into a policy at all if you should be so unfortunate as to have a pre-existing condition?”
To make health insurance a tax credit for individuals, to allow interstate shopping, and to end stupid mandates WILL.
In short, the goverment needs to keep their involvment to a minimum. Then you will see prices decrease and quality increase.
The pre-existing condition people should have their own program.
Report this comment
Captain Midnight
August 12th, 2009
5:29 pm
Mike B, You “evil rich” productive member of society, How Dare You have a problem subsidizing illegals,unwed multi-birthing broodmares and general deadbeats who expect you to finance their existence. I hope you oversleep tomorrow morning and get in trouble at work! Right yall?? Racist.
Report this comment
I don't think so, honey !
August 12th, 2009
5:31 pm
SARA,
“either all of you are on some type of government “assistance”/unemployed and getting checks/or you are just filty rich and you think that you have the right to complain about health reform” Wow- did you really say that ? I don’t know who you think you are, but last time I checked, I do have a “RIGHT” to complain about this government takeover and no, it is not a “reform”. I find it funny that you are up there on your high horse and you can’t even SPELL !! It’s not “LOOSER”, it’s LOSER ! (Look in the mirror) Are you sure YOU’RE not the one on government assistance? LOL
Report this comment
Harold
August 12th, 2009
5:32 pm
Okay folks, what are the key points of this bill?
One is the cut in Medicare benefits which will be 10% or 500 billion dollars to pay for half of the costs of the bill over the next decade. The other half will be payed through tax increases. Obama of course does not tell you that there will be a 30% increase in Medicare usage because of retiring baby boomers. So retirees get screwed in this deal.
Who can tell me about the IRS involvement in this plan?
What about the conflict of interest of hospitals and doctors who just want to treat the patients?
[ There is a fellow on this blog calling himself " Harold" as well who posted this:
"Conservatives are simply trying to voice their belief that the government is not the end-all solution to healthcare problems....” Blah, Blah Blah."
Please disregard, thank you. ]
Regarding Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel who is a key health care advisor to the Obama administration. Please take the time to read, “Principles for Allocation of Scarce Medical Interventions”, particularly the section involving “The Complete Lives System.” This is the type of person you don’t want giving advice to a president.
Report this comment
Algonquin J. Calhoun
August 12th, 2009
5:36 pm
Leave Sara alone Pinhead. The only reason you can spell ‘loser’ is because you’ve been called that so often. You are a pinheaded republinazi fascist! Goose step all you want. Wear your brown shirt proudly but the health care bill will pass!
Report this comment
Chris Salzmann
August 12th, 2009
5:43 pm
jt August 12th, 2009 4:30 pm SAID: jt says- well most women in Germany have hairy armpits.
That don’t mean that American women should have them.
CHRIS SAYS: That’s retarded logic coming from a retard. Enough said………..
Report this comment
SwedeAtlanta
August 12th, 2009
5:47 pm
This blog would be humorous if the topic were not so serious.
Both sides need to ratchet down the rhetoric and engage in healthy democratic dialogue based on facts, not rumors or the latest from the mouths of the radio and tv shock jocks and jockettes.
The basic facts are:
1. There is NO BILL
There are several bills moving through Congress on this topic just like there is in any legislation of this complexity. There are multiple bills in each house. Eventually both houses of Congress will need to harmonize their respective bills and vote on them. The House and Senate will then go to Conference to work out the final bill that is a negotiation between the two chambers. Only then will there be A BILL for each house to vote on and depending on the outcome the bill moves to the President for signature.
2. No ’socialized medicine’
There are no proposals for “socialized” medicine. The government would own and operate all aspects of the health care delivery system in a socialized system. The hospitals would be government owned, the doctors, nurses, etc. would be government employees. That is not on the table.
3. Medicare and Medicaid
Bothare public government insurance programs. So the uneducated that suggest that the government keep their hands off of Medicare need to be educated.
4. Single Payer
A Single Payer system itself is much closer to ’socialized’ medicine but that is not on the table. Some in Congress favor it but it will not be in any final legislation. In such a system only the government insurance program would exist. That doesn’t mean the delivery system is also government owned. Hospitals could continue to be privately owned and operated and doctors and nurses would not necessarily work for the government. That type of system is more likely in my view to eventually progress to a government run delivery system but it is not a foregone conclusion.
5. Public Option
This is indeed not socialized medicine. It is simply a government administered insurance program that would serve as an alternate to private insurance. Subscribers would pay premiums to this system as they would to a private insurer. The public program would then reimburse providers based on contracts just like Medicare/Medicaid do as well as all private insurance programs.
6. You are not going to be forced out of your current coverage. If you like your doctor and you insurance you keep them. Large employers will have a disincentive to drop coverage and force employees onto the public option (believe it is an 8% payroll tax penalty that would then be used to pay for the employees’ public option insurance). True if the private companies do not compete with the public option more people will move to the public option. That is what free markets are all about…the one with the best product and value wins. Keep in mind as well that most large employers are “self insured” which means they pay an insurance company only to manage their health care plan. It is the company that pays for all of the services provided under the plan.
7. No abortions or death panels
I have looked at the bills and none of them contain funding for abortions. None contain anything about forced abortions. None contain anything about death panels. Cynthis addressed this issue in her blog
8. Rationing
Let’s face it, health care is rationed today. Every single commodity and service is subject to the laws of the market. There is always going to be a limited quantity of everything. Today that rationing is done by the private insurance companies who are in the business to maximize return for their shareholders. As part of their business they pay huge salaries to executives, spend lots of money on advertising, etc. That money could be channeled to improve health care. Private insurers are not interested in providing you with insurance, they are interested in taking your premiums and investing them and then paying for as little health care as possible in order to maximize yields. So while we may talk about someone making a decision on rationing health care let’s not fool ourselves into thinking it isn’t rationed today.
9. Funding
This is probably the most contentious issue. I agree we need to address the potential for impact on the deficit but let’s keep in mind that the estimates are around 1.6 trillion over 10 years. The President and Congress have agreed that any final legislation must be deficit neutral. If they don’t deliver then let’s throw the bums out in the next election cycle.
Report this comment
Chris Salzmann
August 12th, 2009
5:47 pm
Chris Salzmann August 12th, 2009 SAID: 4:25 pm
Name me one conservative “grass roots” (though the term should be “astro-turf”) organization lobbying, protesting, organizing against Health Care Insurance Reform that is NOT financially backed by corporate health care, insurance or pharmaceutical interests. MOST, if not ALL, are essentially offshoots of corporations trying to protect their profits at the cost of the general good of the public.
So there’s your challenge folks.
CHRIS SAYS: Still no takers, eh? NOW THAT SPEAKS VOLUMES WHERE CONSERVATIVE INTERESTS ARE………………….
Report this comment
Michael H. Smith
August 12th, 2009
5:56 pm
Things must be getting desperate Cynthia has opened up her blog. You got to love some of those Cynthia words applied to everyone who disagrees with her: Like, rant!
Anyone who thinks Medicare is not the greatest thing since sliced bread is automatically deemed a hater of all things holy and certainly has resorted, to heavens forbid, bashing! Never mind calling government control of industry, or government competing against private sector companies in an industry socialism, that is simply not the case. Remember, our President cited the example of our postal service and how UPS and Fed Ex are doing just fine despite the government competition: Yeah, but he didn’t say how badly the postal service is doing, did he?
Here’s a real simple question the liberals have yet to answer, Ms. Tucker: Why does our government have to be in the healthcare business?
Liberals love to bash America’s healthcare. They are quick to recite how great other nations are doing in healthcare compared to how lousy the U.S. is doing with healthcare in our system.
How many of the liberals would like to see America go to a system like that of Switzerland?
Everyone in Switzerland has to buy health insurance on their own. And there are about 60 different insurance companies to choose from. Premiums run between six and $7,000 a year for a typical family. The government subsidizes lower-income people for their coverage, about one-third of the population. Because premiums are not tied to income, people in the middle income range bear a heavier burden. Insurers cannot fleece customers. In fact, insurers are not allowed to make money on basic health care coverage.
For the basic package, the insurance companies cannot make a profit. But they can sell supplemental insurance for better, you know, single rooms or better eyeglasses, and on those they can make profit.
For most people, the real choice in the system is what kind of deductible to select. Deductibles run from $300 all the way up to 2,000. Insurance funds with large numbers of chronically ill people are compensated through a risk equalization fund. The price for major procedures are below those in the United States because the government enforces price controls.
Nonetheless, the whole system is expensive, the third highest behind the United States and France. The Swiss spends 11 percent of GDP on health care versus 16 percent in the U.S. Per capita that works out to $4,417 on health care versus 7,290 in the U.S. There is one doctor for every 256 people versus in the United States, one doctor for every 416 people. Life expectancy in Switzerland is 81.7 years versus 78 years in the United States.
Footnote: Taxes can be higher in Switzerland, as high as 41.5 percent.
Report this comment
the evil rich
August 12th, 2009
5:59 pm
What’s a president’s SPORTS? Public education?
Report this comment
dfdsfdsf
August 12th, 2009
6:00 pm
Enter your comments here
Report this comment
SARA
August 12th, 2009
6:03 pm
Captian Midnight
The lottery number is 2012 — President OBAMA wins second term!! MORON!
Report this comment
Thogwummpy
August 12th, 2009
6:04 pm
Typical. Given that Tucker’s positions over the years identify her solidly as a Socialist (and a pro-minority BIGOT), this column was expected. And gee…if it opposition is only about the President’s race…how is it that black people are seen speaking out against the plan too? In fact, one African-American fellow was beaten by an SEIU thug outside one of the townhall meetings last week (see the video on YouTube). Tucker is a dolt.
Report this comment
Chris Salzmann
August 12th, 2009
6:04 pm
jt August 12th, 2009 5:29 pm SAYS:
Citizen of the World -
Eliminating fraud, waste, and abuse will NOT ensure that my “family will be able to buy into an affordable policy if you get laid off from your job — or even be able to buy into a policy at all if you should be so unfortunate as to have a pre-existing condition?”
CHRIS SAYS: No, that won’t pay for it but its going to help.
jt August 12th, 2009 5:29 pm SAYS: To make health insurance a tax credit for individuals, to allow interstate shopping, and to end stupid mandates WILL.
CHRIS SAYS: Hahahaha. I;m surprised you didn’t mention tort reform! Obviously, someone who doesn’t have a clue how health insurance works. Parroting conservative talking points doesn’t really help your cause.
1) Tax credits do nothing against insurance firms raising costs and pricing target individuals out of the market PLUS if you’re unemployed or taking care of a sick relative then a tax credit is useless.
2) to allow interstate shopping: Insurance regulations are governed by the individuals states. Since there is minimal difference in costs between states invalidates that argument.
3)end stupid mandates WILL: What mandates are you talking about. Please specify so I can shoot this down too.
4) The pre-existing condition people should have their own program: This is the stupidest one of all. Yeah, lets have all the high risk folks in one pool. So, which insurance company is going to be willing to insure them??? And who’s going to be able to afford to pay for that, even with your lame idea concerning tax credits! Health Insurance works on the 80-20 principle. 80% pay for the 20% who actually use the system (another reason why medicare is going bankrupt).
jt August 12th, 2009 5:29 pm SAYS: In short, the goverment needs to keep their involvment to a minimum. Then you will see prices decrease and quality increase.
CHRIS SAYS: Another good one! Remember when California deregulated its electricity? Prices went through the roof. Remember when gas got deregulated? Same thing! Yeah, the free market will regulate itself, right? We’ve had such a wonderful experience with that theory, correct?
So, jt, stop parroting conservative ideas and come up with a few of your own. You obviously don’t have a clue about anything at all.
Report this comment
SARA
August 12th, 2009
6:07 pm
To I don’t think so honey!!
No I pay taxes for your D@##@M medicare and Social Security YUP! your existence!!! Gray-headed lady you need to stay away from the town hall meetings because all look real stupid! Stop complaining and go read your BIBLE — you need Jesus!!!!
Report this comment
Algonquin J. Calhoun
August 12th, 2009
6:10 pm
Captain Midnight, I doubt you’re a captain. You’re probably still private Midnight. No, I’m not black. His color is of no significance to me. He’s a good guy and a good president. Go spray up some more swastikas fool!
Report this comment
Chris Salzmann
August 12th, 2009
6:16 pm
Michael H. Smith August 12th, 2009 5:56 pm SAYS: ….Nonetheless, the whole system is expensive, the third highest behind the United States and France. The Swiss spends 11 percent of GDP on health care versus 16 percent in the U.S. Per capita that works out to $4,417 on health care versus 7,290 in the U.S. There is one doctor for every 256 people versus in the United States, one doctor for every 416 people. Life expectancy in Switzerland is 81.7 years versus 78 years in the United States.
CHRIS SAYS: You just shot down your own argument. So, the Swiss spend about 60% per capita of what the we spend yet have a better health care system? So, if we spend a higher amount even with lower taxes, then this begs the question regarding what we’re spending all this excess money on??? Also keep in mind that Switzerland has a much higher standard of living than the United States which artificially inflates costs for them.
So again, even with lower taxes and cost of living, we spend almost twice the amount on health care than the Swiss and still have a messed up system. Where’s all this extra money going?
Report this comment
mike
August 12th, 2009
6:24 pm
Saw you on the News Hour gushing about the big “O’s” staged presentation in N.H.. We know the promises he makes he cannot keep. He is like a used car salesman telling you what you want to hear.
Love his witty analogy about the UPS, FEDEX, USPS. Isn’t the post office government run. I see the same type of operation if we turn over healthcare to this nimrod and his court. Pharmaceuticals have already cut a deal with him because they know they need the elderly block of voters or this won’t pass. Why do we insist on passing a bill that is so complicated just for the sake of passing it, see the 2012 process already in effect…I think I will cling to my religion and guns, they never let me down.
Report this comment
Michael H. Smith
August 12th, 2009
6:24 pm
No the so-called free market will not regulate itself. Using the deregulation of electricity and gas are not good arguments, they really are flawed. Allowing the interstate selling and buying of healthcare insurance should happen but it is only a small piece of the American answer to reforming the “healthcare system”. Deregulating the interstate selling and buying of healthcare insurance, is “healthcare insurance” reform that does not reform the system. More has to be done beyond the reform of healthcare insurance but government is not the one to own, control or administer the non-profit competition that will be necessary to bring pressure to bear against private sector insurers in “reforming the healthcare system”.
The debate actually has two parts: Insurance reform and system reform.
Report this comment
Larry (part of the mob)
August 12th, 2009
6:27 pm
This bill is bad for America!
1. Social Security was solvent and now is broke.
2. Medicare was solvent and now is broke.
3. America was solvent and now is broke.
The United States is currently 11 Trillion is Debt and counting. We can not afford another open ended program that the President knows will drive us deeper into debt.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Report this comment
Michael H. Smith
August 12th, 2009
6:28 pm
Chris Salzmann
August 12th, 2009
6:16 pm
Chris missed the question, there was no argument.
But is there was one it would have been no government Public Option. Wake up Chris!
Report this comment
BiteMe
August 12th, 2009
6:30 pm
Gawd…you people are very angry. I hope you don’t die with that hate!
Report this comment
mwhite2k
August 12th, 2009
6:35 pm
There are two truisms of the proposed healthcare plan:
1) If you already have health insurance and the means to take care of yourself and your family, your options and the quality of your healthcare will get worse.
2) If you are not currently covered and have no means by which to procure health insurance (or simply choose not to pursue same), your options and the quality of your healthcare will improve.
This is yet another attempt to take away from those who worked to provide for themselves and their families to subsidize those who didn’t.
I’m tired of subsidizing Tucker’s readers….
Report this comment
caj
August 12th, 2009
6:38 pm
I think what Mrs. Palin has said is accurate as it can be. The lib’s/Dem’s are in the business of lying to the American people so of course they are going to say everybody else is wrong and they are right. For me and my family this is what I see……Say for example that this communist healthcare bill becomes law and my employer is under a mandate to offer a public option. Now lets say that all of the employees decided against the public option. The powers that be in my company are in the business of making money so they, from a purely business viewpoint, look at what they pay for their employees healthcare. In that review they see that they could save x amount of dollars a year if they discontinued employer sponcered healthcare under the guise that healthcare is just too expensive. So I lose my healthcare and am forced into a communist plan. This will happen to millions of Americans as the businesses they work for find it cheaper to go with a communist plan. So contrary to what oblow says I will not be able to keep my current plan. The only difference is that oblow, the lib’s and the dem’s will be able to say we didnt do it, it was your employer. All the while knowing full well that it was the communist plan caused the problem.
Report this comment
dave morris
August 12th, 2009
6:40 pm
One of the “mandates” jt may be thinking of is the obama proposal that insurance companies can’t deny you coverage for pre-existing conditions. What’s wrong with that?
Report this comment
Bullying Protester
August 12th, 2009
6:46 pm
Algonquin, you’re terminally stupid and really don’t have anything to offer other than your unimaginative name calling. Your intellligence is so low it can’t be measured so please get help now.
Report this comment
Chris Salzmann
August 12th, 2009
6:47 pm
Michael H. Smith August 12th, 2009 6:28 pm SAID: Chris missed the question, there was no argument.
But is there was one it would have been no government Public Option. Wake up Chris!
CHRIS SAYS: Point taken. But #1) this isn’t about a single payer system because that’s not what this reform bill is about. We aren’t going there with this reform bill. #2) I can assure you that the Swiss “Free Market System” is extremely heavily regulated with very stringent quality of care and cost guidelines which is something this reform bill is trying to accomplish and finally, #3) Since poor income groups are heavily subsidized, doesn’t that equal government involvement especially taking into account the stringent Swiss regulations regarding their insurance carriers?
Report this comment
dave morris
August 12th, 2009
6:47 pm
mike, the post office is no longer government run. that’s probably why service has improved over the years, and it’s cheaper for some things than fedex or ups. the post office’s problem is that it has a lot of legacy costs from before privitization, like expensive labor agreements and a lot of unproductive real estate.
a better comparison may be the education business. if we allow the government to get involved in health, will it put the insurance companies out of business? well, we’ve had public education in this country for more than a century, and there seems to be no shortage of private schools at every level. the competition seems to be good for both sectors. perhaps the “public option” isn’t such a bad idea after all.
Report this comment
Chris Salzmann
August 12th, 2009
6:49 pm
dave morris August 12th, 2009 6:40 pm SAID: One of the “mandates” jt may be thinking of is the obama proposal that insurance companies can’t deny you coverage for pre-existing conditions. What’s wrong with that?
CHRIS SAYS: According to conservatives, any regulation is bad. You get treatment denied due to pre-existing conditions, then you’re SOL. That’s what conservatives would say (but not too openly).
Report this comment
Craig
August 12th, 2009
6:50 pm
Murkowski doesn’t like Palin because Palin fought against the old-guard, corrupt Alaska GOP that Murkowski and her father are a part of. Palin could easily take Murkowski’s seat some day. Murkowski’s just trying to attack a potential rival.
Report this comment
jconservative
August 12th, 2009
6:51 pm
Citizen of the World –
You are making the same tired old assumptions that all conservatives (& all liberals for that matter) all march to the same tune.
All conservatives I know realize that bureaucrats already control most of American health care. They are the insurance companies. Examples:
1. We will pay 90% in network; 60% out of network. (Therefore, you probably want to go to one of our doctors, not your doctor.) 2. We (insurance co.) will only pay for 20 sessions. But my wife needs 30 sessions! We will only pay for 20 sessions! – Very few Americans really get their choices in health care. This is a fiction.
Let the rich pay for it? Suits me. But the Treasury department has already determined that any plan being discussed to raise taxes on the rich will not be enough to pay for the baby boomers. And I am only talking about Medicare/Medicaid hospitalization. There are also doctor bills, drug bills, etc, etc, etc. None of these totals are in my totals previously outlined. It’s a puzzlement!
Again, the problem is that NO ONE is addressing the problem.
Report this comment
Michael H. Smith
August 12th, 2009
6:59 pm
Chris Salzmann
August 12th, 2009
6:47 pm
Chris continues to misunderstand, single payer was not mentioned. Public Option was the term used which will be a government ran, controlled and administered system. On point two: Nothing to the affect was said that the Swiss is not regulated so what is the point of point two? Regulation to bring down costs can take on many forms without this government Public Option proposed in these bills. As to point three: There is a very big difference between involvement in a program to actually owning, controlling and administering a program.
Report this comment
Cubfan515
August 12th, 2009
7:03 pm
Sarah Palin was lying. AND she’s nuts.
Report this comment
SwedeAtlanta
August 12th, 2009
7:03 pm
Re: mwhite2K @ 6:30
I welcome dialogue about the health care debate but would like to base the discussion on facts.
You have asserted that those with health care today will be worse off and those without health care today will be better off.
Those are opinions but are not supported by facts. I would love to see your arguments and the corresponding facts. But I don’ think we progress the engagement by throwing out assertions that are not supported by facts or at least a rational argument.
Let’s have an honest debate
Report this comment
Michael H. Smith
August 12th, 2009
7:04 pm
Chris Salzmann
August 12th, 2009
6:49 pm
Chris should try to become a better guesser. Many conservative like regulations where and when they are truly needed.
Report this comment
mwhite2k
August 12th, 2009
7:14 pm
Fair enough, SwedeAtlanta,
First of all, there are no “facts” until a bill becomes law. Everything debated here is hypothetical, including your position and mine.
We can agree that those without current coverage will be better off, yes? If not, what’s the point?
More people accessing finite health care resources does, by definition, limit or curb the availability of same. Surely you won’t dispute this.
It’s not a matter of politics. It’s more simple than that.
Report this comment
Michael H. Smith
August 12th, 2009
7:21 pm
We don’t have enough rich people to pay for it, jconservative. The rest of us don’t have enough income to pay for it, either.
Report this comment
TXPatriot512
August 12th, 2009
7:23 pm
I clicked on this headline to find out what Palin lied about and who called her a liar. What I find here, however, is the only lie is the headline of this non-’’story”. Ms. Tucker, this is slimy ‘journalism’. Go find something else to do with your life. If you have a talent, try to figure out what it is and try to get good at something, perhaps something involving a push broom and mop bucket.
TXPatriot512
Report this comment
SwedeAtlanta
August 12th, 2009
7:33 pm
Ref: mwhite2k @ 7:14
First of all thank you for engaging in thoughtful dialogue.
I concede that one of the objectives is to extend health care coverage to those without it. If we assume there is greater coverage then those without are arguably better off. Today they get services but in the form of charity care in emergency rooms and the like.
I do not dispute that more people accessing the same limited pool of health care resources is a problem. What I dispute is the assumption that by providing health care coverage to X million (the numbers vary so wildly depending on the source I don’t want to use a number here) will necessarily limits or curb avaiability.
Most of those people get care, in the form of emergency room and urgent care facilities. That cost is subsidized by you and I (I assume you like myself are privileged enough to have good insurance coverage) either through taxes, i.e. Medicaid or higher co-pays or costs for services, i.e. hospitals, etc. have to recover the cost of free care by charging paying patients more.
Yes, these people today aren’t competing for routine physicals, x-rays, etc. and that would change under a reform that provided broader coverage.
But the services that are provided today are at the most expensive touch points in the system, i.e. emergency rooms, etc. If indeed more were covered and had routine physicals, etc. pressure would be relieved from those touch points and be transferred into preventive medicine. People would discover disease, etc. earlier at a time when it is less expensive to treat, etc.
I believe that that projection suggests that while we might need to re-train and refocus our public policy toward more primary care physicians, etc. that over the long haul this would be a prescription whereby there will be less stress on the system. People engaging in more healthful lifestyles, catching disease earlier, etc. should overall reduce the cost and drain on resources for the currently unemployed.
Can you agree with any of that analysis?
Report this comment
SwedeAtlanta
August 12th, 2009
7:37 pm
Ref: mwhite2K @ 7:14
Clarification to my last point…that should read…’should overall reduce the cost and drain of resources for the currently UNINSURED’.
Thanks.
Report this comment
SICK OF TUCKER
August 12th, 2009
8:02 pm
Race card is that all you got…what a truly truly horrible thing to say Tucker about hard working Americans that feel this bill is not all their tellings us…you make me sick…and I am black and tired of hearing the race card did you forget he is also white…you are the TRUE RASIEST….and an IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!! As Michael Jackson said I’m not going to spend my life being a Color…
Report this comment
dean
August 12th, 2009
8:06 pm
I don’t care if you dem or rep,one thing that I do know is that healthcare,in America is messed-up. All the bad mouthing about the plan,I say to you people where your is your plan. As great as this country is NO ONE should be without healthcare. It’s a human right.
Report this comment
jt
August 12th, 2009
8:06 pm
dave morris
August 12th, 2009
6:40 pm
“One of the “mandates” jt may be thinking of is the obama proposal that insurance companies can’t deny you coverage for pre-existing conditions. What’s wrong with that?”
About breast cancer preventative care? How about gynocologist visits?
What about pregnancy?
I need none of the above.
Furthermore, once an insurance company is FORCED to accept people with pre-existing conditions, that insurance company CEASES to be an insurance company. It becomes just some goverment welfare program.
Report this comment
Evan Smith
August 12th, 2009
8:24 pm
I don’t understand Michael Smith’s point. I agree with him that Switzerland’s system is better and cheaper than ours. That’s great. Why don’t we do that ?
If I understand correctly, Switzerland mandates that you have health care and regulates the industry carefully so that insurance comanies don’t fleece you. They also pay for your health care if you lose your job. This solves a lot of the problems we have here: if Americans lose our job we lose coverage, and uninsured Americans often become freeloaders who drive up the cost of insurance. No more of this pre-existing condition descrimination either. Sounds great. Let’s do it.
But if these measures were proposed here, wouldn’t the conservatives be just as freaked out as they are now? Wouldn’t they call this socialism? Wouldn’t they make up the same nonsense they are now?
Report this comment
Evan Smith
August 12th, 2009
8:34 pm
I really don’t understnad caj’s point. Caj, right now your employer can decide to not cover you if they wish. And then you’re on your own to buy health care – which is exactly what’s going on with my family. I’m covered, but not my wife, or my kids. My wife has coverage through her work, but we’re going to have a second kid. When she stop sworking, we will need to pay for everything out of pocket. That will cost $350/mo for a catastrophic plan. I don’t have that kind of money. Obviously if anyone became ill/got hurt, we’d be in big trouble. This is a very big problem for young families. What are the Republican’s doing to help us? Nothing! They just make up nonsense to scare the senior citizens.
Report this comment
relaaxx
August 12th, 2009
8:44 pm
how many idiots does it take to screw in a light bulb? 2. one to hold the bulb and sarah palin to spin her around.
Report this comment
Tank
August 12th, 2009
8:57 pm
Cynthia writes, “But, according to my colleague Jay Bookman, …” What she meant to write was, “But, according to my COMRADE Jay Bookman, …”
Report this comment
Huckleberry
August 12th, 2009
9:02 pm
See, what did I tell you all after my earlier burger comment (see page 1). By this point, the thread is past name calling and dumb points, and well into capital letters and bold.
Woo-hoo.
Oh wait, I forgot the Magna Carta-length postings, too, snarf!
Mmm-mmm, I’m going to get a Fuddrucker’s cheddar cheeseburger in the next 72 hours, with freshly toasted bun and fries. Ketchup between the bottom bun and patty, then ketchup on top of the patty. Mayo on the inside of the top bun, followed by mustard. Top with lettuce and tomato, mmm-mmm!
Only have to decide do I want the 1/3-pound or the 1/2 pound? Anyone want to vote? I will post results if this is still open.
Report this comment
Michael H. Smith
August 12th, 2009
9:03 pm
I was baiting the liberals Evan. Naturally they didn’t bite. If they had it would reveal something they and the others pushing this Public Option want, that they will die before conceding it: The Public Option in these two bills have more to do with government taking more power and control of healthcare.
There are six Senators working on a bipartisan bill to establish consumer healthcare cooperatives that will be owned, controlled and administered by its consumer members – not the government - which will do what these Public Options bills will not do. I encourage you do some research on your on about the Co Op healthcare plan in the Senate.
Sen. Conrad the main advocate of this plan.
Report this comment
Chris Salzmann
August 12th, 2009
9:11 pm
Michael H. Smith August 12th, 2009 6:59 pm SAYS:
Chris continues to misunderstand, single payer was not mentioned. Public Option was the term used which will be a government ran, controlled and administered system. On point two: Nothing to the affect was said that the Swiss is not regulated so what is the point of point two? Regulation to bring down costs can take on many forms without this government Public Option proposed in these bills. As to point three: There is a very big difference between involvement in a program to actually owning, controlling and administering a program.
CHRIS SAYS: Okay, lets move over to the Swiss system. We’ll get strict cost controls because government regulations which will prevent insurance companies from making a profit on basic plans. Also, the fact that they spend almost half of what we already spend so that should save us literally over a TRILLION $$$.
So, in short, the Swiss have a heavily regulated PRIVATE health insurance system with strict cost controls and regulations requiring coverage of pre-existing conditions. Also included, I assume, is the clause to cover unemployed people and their families. Plus, I’m sure health insurance coverage is MANDATORY, right? Excellent. If we can get that I’m all for it. Lets see how your conservatives friends react to this since anything that REGULATES corporations from turning a profit on anything and makes COMPULSORY coverage is anathema to them.
Report this comment
Michael H. Smith
August 12th, 2009
9:14 pm
Chris read my last post, then come back. I’ll tell you exactly what I want and that is not the Public Option or any other scheme the government will own, control or administer.
Report this comment
Chris Salzmann
August 12th, 2009
9:24 pm
Michael H. Smith August 12th, 2009 9:14 pm SAID: Chris read my last post, then come back. I’ll tell you exactly what I want and that is not the Public Option or any other scheme the government will own, control or administer.
CHRIS SAYS: I don’t care either as long as costs can be controlled, pre-existing conditions are covered, the unemployed, and people living in poverty along with their families can be ensured coverage. If private insurance carriers are forced to do that through strict controls and regulations, I’m all for it.
There, now I called your bluff.
Report this comment
Chris Salzmann
August 12th, 2009
9:30 pm
Still waiting for any takers from the conservatives out there. Tell me of ANY group advertising in the mass media against the Health Reform bill that is not receiving backing in one form or another from the health care, insurance or pharmaceutical industry.
I’m interested of hearing of any such group since it makes my point that most of the so called grass roots organization and their supporters doing this are ignorant tools of corporations and special interests looking out for their profits.
STILL WAITING!!!
Report this comment
Michael H. Smith
August 12th, 2009
9:38 pm
Nope, you didn’t call anything because it is obvious you are clueless to what I or Sen. Conrad has in mind. There will not be any strict controls and regulations of the nature you are probably hoping for but there just might be in all probability some very heavy stacking of the deck so to speak in the favor of Consumer Healthcare Cooperative Exchanges throughout the country which private insurance companies would have to compete with and depending on how healthcare insurance is reformed will determine how the deck gets stacked for Consumer Healthcare Cooperative Exchanges i.e. If the private insurance companies want to keep pre-existing, cherry picking and limiting coverage, then watch out, because Consumer Healthcare Cooperative Exchanges they will be empowered by favorable laws like you would not believe. After that there won’t be any need of strict controls and regulations on private insurers, they will literally be fighting just to survive begging people to take their services.
Report this comment
AntonioSosa
August 12th, 2009
9:39 pm
Palin was and is right. Under the one-payer system (socialized medicine) that Obama and his accomplices plan for us sooner or later, doctors will be working for the government, following government’s orders.
Who in the government? Obama’s Health Care Czar Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel? Dr. Emanuel (also called Dr. Death) has said that “Medical care should not be given to those who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens.”
If doctors report to Dr. Emanuel, they will have to refuse medical care to the elderly and the handicapped because they are “irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens.”
Obama and his Czars, including Science Czar John Holdren, seem to share Dr. Emanuel’s thinking. As a Senator, Obama voted in favor of abortion and infanticide (late-term abortion). And Science Czar John Holdren has called for population-control policies such as forced abortions, mass sterilizations, and mandatory population controls.
We DO NOT want Obama and his accomplices to “take care of us.”
Report this comment
Michael H. Smith
August 12th, 2009
10:53 pm
Oh and by the way Chris, this non-sense about who has special interests representing them in this healthcare debate that is taking place, there is plenty of “Astor Turf” being manufactured on both sides, liberal and conservative.
Report this comment
Chris Salzmann
August 12th, 2009
11:18 pm
Michael H. Smith August 12th, 2009 9:38 pm SAID:
Nope, you didn’t call anything because it is obvious you are clueless to what I or Sen. Conrad has in mind. There will not be any strict controls and regulations of the nature you are probably hoping for but there just might be in all probability some very heavy stacking of the deck so to speak in the favor of Consumer Healthcare Cooperative Exchanges throughout the country which private insurance companies would have to compete with and depending on how healthcare insurance is reformed will determine how the deck gets stacked for Consumer Healthcare Cooperative Exchanges i.e. If the private insurance companies want to keep pre-existing, cherry picking and limiting coverage, then watch out, because Consumer Healthcare Cooperative Exchanges they will be empowered by favorable laws like you would not believe. After that there won’t be any need of strict controls and regulations on private insurers, they will literally be fighting just to survive begging people to take their services.
CHRIS SAYS: And examples of where this has worked before?
Report this comment
CURick1994
August 13th, 2009
12:56 am
“If what Obama wants in Health care ever gets passed….what do you think will happen when there are too few doctors to handle the load?”
This is the saddest argument of all. Isn’t it obvious what this terrible claim implies? Doesn’t it mean that we have a significant number of people in this country who do not have access to health care? Forget implications, this argument explicitly states that we can’t give these unfortunate people access to health care because doing so we may adversely affect those of us who now have access. How selfish! How can anyone use this as an argument against reform? What a profoundly callous argument this is.
Report this comment
Myron Pitts
August 13th, 2009
2:05 am
Tucker seems unaware that Murkowski and Palin have a rocky history. Specificially, Murkowski cannot stand Palin, who pursued slash and burn politics against her fellow Republicans while campaigning for governor. And she defeated Murkowski’s father.
So the senator is not the most objective critic of the former governor, even though her specific criticism is right on.
Report this comment
Craig Spinks /Augusta
August 13th, 2009
2:57 am
Cynthia, glad to see your column with attached blog. Wish you were writing from the ATL. Don’t allow yourself to succumb to Potomac fever.
Report this comment
Kent Clark
August 13th, 2009
3:07 am
Mr Salzmann, I salute you.
Conservative people, have any of you done any research into health care issues? Apparently not enough to have a rational, reason based argument to support your commitment to the current organized crime style of health care insurance. What is really coming through is an inarticulate rage at the fact that a black man is president, coupled with a paranoid notion that he might be looking for revenge on white people for the checkered history of race relations in America. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
And as an Alaskan, Palin is a liar, a crook, and a cartoon. And a quitter. But she’s entertaining as all get out, since Jackass is no longer on the air.
Report this comment
Julie White
August 13th, 2009
3:32 am
Those of you who would disagree with her statement need to do some homework on these bills and the people who are contributing to them before it is too late…….
Report this comment
Julie White
August 13th, 2009
3:37 am
Hey Chris,
I have never been politically active, registered independent and went to a few of these rallies. What I have seen is a group of DNC folks driven in by a bus from a different county with fancy preprinted signs and the next day a lady who said ACORN pays her 15 dollars an hour to hand out those signs. The “other” side had obviously home made signs and were in smaller groups. I talked to people and asked them questions. That’s the only reason I know. This is definitely a grass roots thing here in Oregon……
Report this comment
jovan
August 13th, 2009
6:05 am
Anyone wants to know why the deficit is over $11,000,000,000,000.00? Bush’s tax cuts and the illegal war-for-profit in Iraq that we the taxpayers paid for over our objections! I didn’t see any of you intellectually lazy brats on the right complain about the cost of a war that Blackwater, Haliburton and KGR has profiteered from!
This is MY AMERICA and I WILL FIGHT THE RADICAL RIGHT! You right wingers have destroyed America long enough! And now you don’t like the fact that we are rebuilding America?
Spare me your false outrage!
Report this comment
mike
August 13th, 2009
7:05 am
Gee I wonder if the Democrats will ever be called upon to repudiate the hateful comment of Olbermann, Maher and Tucker for their incessant and baseless accusations of racism.
Tucker is world class hypocrite and reading her tripe is a great reminder of why I cancelled this rag.
Report this comment
mike
August 13th, 2009
7:07 am
Chris Salzmann -
“And examples of where this has worked before?”
Let’s see some examples of where cap and trade has worked before and produced results.
Report this comment
Sonia Kermaz
August 13th, 2009
7:13 am
The objective of all private insurance companies is to collect as much money as possible and to pay out as little as possible. You don’t have to work in the insurance industry to know this, you just need to have a few brain cells and an Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield policy.
Report this comment
frank burns
August 13th, 2009
7:39 am
Dear FightThe Smears,
You only say that Palin did not talk about euthanasia in her Facebook post because — this is the only explanation unless you are just lying or trying to muddy the waters — you have no idea what the word means. In either of these three cases you do, however, show yourself to be a typical Palin supporter.
Report this comment
big dog
August 13th, 2009
8:21 am
Obama needs to resign now before he drags us all down which may be his purpose. I do not trust this man as far as I can throw him. The thugs he has surrounded himself with should have all Americans scard to death.
Report this comment
mike
August 13th, 2009
8:34 am
What a joke. Is detaining these detainees indefinitely in Standish some type of moral improvement to storing them at Gitmo?
Does the current prison “damage our standing in the world” because of its geographical location? Nonsense.
Where the detainees are housed is irrelevant. This whole argument is a re-arranging of the deck chairs and of course Tucker being the good partisan she is, reflexively jumps to support it.
Tell us Cynthia, how will moving these guys to Standish improve our standing in the world?
Also, can you tell us what is being done with detainees these days? Has Obama stopped going after these guys? Is he just having them killed? Is he housing them indefinitely at Bagram? Please tell us about the new “more humane” detention policies.
Report this comment
Shawn
August 13th, 2009
8:41 am
Ms. Tucker – You deserve some kind of medal. How do you put up with the AJC readership day in and day out? I am a resident of N. Fulton – and I can barely stand to click through any AJC story these days. It’s toxic.
I just hope this doesn’t represent the actual average views and intellect of the ATL metro area populous – just the dittoheads who barage the internet with their views they would never dare to speak out loud to their co-workers. These sociopaths sit there all p***** off in their cubicles “venting” their frustrations on ajc.com for their own miserable lives and failures, blaming Obama and anyone who supports him.
Thank God – the backlash has begun.
What will these pathetic losers whine about when the economy turns back around? Back to the go-to scare tactics – gay marriage and abortion, I suppose.
Report this comment
What They Are Saying: 08.13.09 | AnnotatedOpinions.com
August 13th, 2009
8:52 am
[...] GOP senator doesn’t like Palin’s lies [Atlanta Journal-Constitution] [...]
Report this comment
Rickster
August 13th, 2009
9:28 am
The only job Cynthia’s concerned about is her own!
Report this comment
arnold
August 13th, 2009
10:24 am
Where they are confined is relevant. The name “Gitmo” id disturbing to a large number of people worldwide. We need to lessen tensions, not perpetuate them.
Report this comment
Brian
August 13th, 2009
10:52 am
I’m just echoing the thoughts of others here, but what Palin has been saying is not a “Lie.” It only makes sense, I don’t understand the rejection of simple truth. If you argue that she’s dumb, then you must accept that her political peers and journalists are outright brain dead.
Unless Obama is promising to pay for “EVERYTHING” (he hasn’t given a speach YET about not offering everything, but we can agree that this is implicit), which would bankrupt the society if not be simply impossible, then somebody somewhere in government needs to determine who gets what healthcare. Therefore, somebody somewhere is also determining who cannot get certain healthcare. If that person or panel (we do love our committees) decides against you then yes, as far as you are concerned, it is a death panel. You may not die, but if they reject a procedure that could allow you to live life to its fullest, then they are bringing you one step closer to death.
Go Palin for speaking the TRUTH!
Report this comment
Robert
August 13th, 2009
11:57 am
Cynthia, you scare me much more than GITMO….
Report this comment
Katie
August 13th, 2009
12:03 pm
So interesting to read these comments. I’ve seen the same rhetoric over and over from the anti-Obama people, but no response to Chris Salzman’s plea for a working health care proposal. I don’t believe the anti-Obama people have a plan beyond shouting “socialism!” or “death panels!”
As has been pointed out ad nauseum, many people already have no insurance and the rest of us have insurance whose bureaucrats tell us whom we can and cannot see and what they will and will not pay for. We wait hours in waiting rooms and weeks, even months for appointments. Hundreds of thousands of people choose between food or medications, rent or doctor’s bills, and medical debt is one of the main reasons for indiviudal bankruptcy. Hell yes, we need reform. Who in their right mind would think otherwise?
Report this comment
SARAH PALIN
August 13th, 2009
12:15 pm
PALIN, DIDN’T YOU SAY YOU WILL NOT BE INVOLVED WITH POLITICS NO MORE? WHY ARE YOU CONCERNING ABOUT POLITICS? STILL WANT TO BE FUTURE PRESIDENT? STILL WANT PUBLIC TO REMEMBER YOUR FACE AND WILL VOTE FOR YOU WHEN RUNNING FOR A NEXT PRESIDENCIAL? YOU ARE SUCH A MASTER DEVIL PLANNER………. LIKE I HAVE SAID BEFORE.. YOU SUKKKKKKKKK….. GO AWAY..SHOO…SHOO…SHOOOTTTTTT………
Report this comment
gatorman770
August 13th, 2009
12:28 pm
Cynthia I thought I heard the AJC was going to try to be more fair and balanced by you leaving the AJC and moving to DC. When you leaving?
Report this comment
Jim morrison
August 13th, 2009
12:31 pm
Hey Cynthia,
You are the biggest Racist Moron at AJC.
Why don’t you QUIT, you liberal Socialist!
Enough Said!
Report this comment
whatever
August 13th, 2009
12:39 pm
another in a long line of pathetic attempts of cynthia to try to protect her savior, barack. hey cynthia, it aint the dems or the repubs that are keeping the people at Gitmo, its the spineless non-leader you elected into office. he has the power to do a lot of things but can only do something if it is popular. sorry to say, but being president isnt about doing what is popular, thats easy. being president is about making tough decisions that may anger your own party. bush wasnt a leader, he didnt do anything that would anger the repubs…and barack is the same way.
quit trying to make excuses for this mistake of a president.
Report this comment
Steve
August 13th, 2009
12:40 pm
Cynthia for head prison guard in Standish.
Report this comment
jt
August 13th, 2009
12:46 pm
The really scary part is that some northern industrial wasteland wants people so that “their prison doesn’t shut down”.
Is that a “cherished American principle”.??
Cynthia Tucker, where is your empathy for the world’s largest incarcerated population.? You should at least give the same publicity to these incarcerated Americans because they are disproportionally minorities and the majority of these minorities committed no violent crime.
Report this comment
Jack
August 13th, 2009
1:03 pm
Nope, didn’t buy cash-for-cluker car. But I am concerned about the new program coming out that allows cash-for-grandpa.
Report this comment
reservoirDAWG
August 13th, 2009
1:05 pm
You suck Cynthia. How did you even graduate college?
Report this comment
Jack
August 13th, 2009
1:09 pm
Oops! Betcha Tucker won’t allow any more comments.
Report this comment
bromack
August 13th, 2009
1:14 pm
Ms Tucker,
The only reason Obama et.al…are unhappy about Guantanamo is because some Yemeni Prince’s son is being held there.
And this Prince is paying some NY lawyer a bunch of cash to get him released. They figure if they can generate enough negative publicity amongst the american media and public… that oughta do the trick…
Thats why I always say…. stand for something… or fall for anything.
Bromack.
VRM
Report this comment
Get Real
August 13th, 2009
1:23 pm
Now I see why she hadn’t taken comments in the past. All these so-call ‘tough American Patriots’ are running scared. The Unabomber is in an American prison, and hasn’t escaped. I believe the point of bringing them here was to conduct trials or tribunals to release the innocent ones to countries that will take them, and put the rest in prison. You tough guys are so quick to start wars, but don’t want to except the consequences of it. Rather house the prisoners in Cuba. A bunch of Chuck Norris’ you all are. lol.
Report this comment
Question
August 13th, 2009
1:28 pm
Sheila Jackson Lee, Democrat congresswoman from Houston, talks on her cell phone while a constituent is making a statement during her town hall. Debbie Stabenow, Democrat Senator from Michigan says that “climate change is very real” because she can “feel it when I’m flying. The storms are more volatile. We are paying the price in more hurricanes and tornadoes.”
And these folks are our “leaders” making policy decisions. Makes one wonder about the intellect of their voters…
Report this comment
I don't think so, honey !
August 13th, 2009
1:30 pm
Go back to whatever 3rd world country you came from Algonquin J. Calhoun…you and SARA probably hitched a ride over here together in hopes for a “better life”…no wonder your sucking up all of our tax money !
Report this comment
Bhorsoft
August 13th, 2009
1:34 pm
Thought really hard about it as I could get the $4500 and improve my gas mileage by at least 7 MPG. The $4500 would be over twice what I could get selling it or trading it in using a conventional trade-in. However, I like not having a car payment, my “clunker” has less than 90K miles on it and it is 10 years old – so it is just fine except for some minor maintenance and that it is ugly (from unrepaired hail damage dents). I also didn’t want to triple my ad valorem taxes on a vehicle for the next few years. Bottom line was that I really wasn’t going to save that much in the short term and I’m counting on vehicles getting a lot better gas mileage by the time I’m really ready for a new vehicle – and maybe ad valorem will be “fixed”, too.
Report this comment
mimi
August 13th, 2009
1:35 pm
everyone calm down..
Report this comment
Edward
August 13th, 2009
1:40 pm
I see the reich-wing propagandists are out early today.
On topic, I don’t see how the “cash-for-clunkers” program does anything long-term beneficial, either for the environment or the economy. It is a “feel good” program only. The best thing congress could do is slap a huge tax on gas-guzzlers so that Hummer and V-10 behemoth have far less of an incentive. The current gas-guzzler tax is a joke, especially with the tax loophole that still allows a huge tax deduction for buying a monster SUV or truck for some people.
Report this comment
Concerned consumer
August 13th, 2009
1:41 pm
If I was in the buying market I would have purchased the new clean diesal Jetta, great gas mileage and peppy.
Report this comment
Mac
August 13th, 2009
1:42 pm
I think they’d be welcome in northwest Georgia’s carpet country if it meant some people could go back to work.
And, I stand corrected. Welcome to blogging. Hope all goes well.
Report this comment
Concerned consumer
August 13th, 2009
1:43 pm
I have never understood who EVER buys a Hummer? Big car, Little …….is what I think
Report this comment
Stan
August 13th, 2009
1:45 pm
GITMO is HOT as “H” and Why are We Stuck on HATE?
Report this comment
Rufus
August 13th, 2009
1:53 pm
What I can’t figure out is all these so-called Americans, who want to treat murderous, and terrorists, as victims, even if they kill hundreds of innocent people, when these clowns are killing American soldiers, in A WAR, and get caught, they have to be treated with kids glove, because, if treated any other way violation of cherished American principles.
In what fantasy world, are these reporters living in.
War, is not a picnic, stop protecting and feeling sorry for these killer,
they are animals, their soul purpose in this world is to kill American, or anyone else who gets in their way.
If we keep babying these things that imitated a human being, they will be knocking, or should say breaking into your house someday, and lets see how sorry you’ll feel.
Report this comment
Dr. J.D.Taylor
August 13th, 2009
1:56 pm
The definition of socialism is more than ideology embracing state-run industry, production and businesses. When Obama first came into office, gov’t spending accounted for 33% of GDP. After his stimulus, it jumped to 39%. If health care passes, it will be 45% and if Cap & Trade (aka Cap & Tax) passes, it will be 50%! Ok, so to put that into perspective: Great Britain is at 42%, Germany 47% and France 52%. Why do libs get so offended when people call this what it is: it’s socialism. So what? This Cynthia Tucker is just another liberal making fun of our seniors for not wanting the gov’t to grow any more than it already has. It doesn’t make “grandma” a socialist for using a gov’t program.
Report this comment
Had-enough
August 13th, 2009
2:16 pm
Cynthia, you say that Guantanamo, “The facility stands in violation of cherished American principles.” Say what Cynthia? Do mean the white peoples “cherished principals”? You have never given this country credit for anything? Now it’s CHERISHED by you. You are really a peace of crap. The AJC should be done with you altogether.
Report this comment
Nick
August 13th, 2009
2:17 pm
Customers are not capable of trading in “high-mileage vehicles for just-slightly-lower-mileage Hummers and pick-up trucks.” Under the guidelines of the program, depending the new vehicle must get at least 2 mpg better than the vehicle being traded in.
And relative to the question about who buy’s Hummer, they’re typically highly educated with a high household income. They recognize that Hummer models get the same fuel economy as other trucks and SUVs on the road.
Report this comment
Gordon
August 13th, 2009
2:27 pm
Wow. Now I know why Cynthia never let people blog until recently. I don’t agree with her either, but there is a lot of pent-up anger here.
Report this comment
reservoirDAWG
August 13th, 2009
2:28 pm
I drive a new car and it is not a clunker. By the way Cynthia, you suck.
Report this comment
jconservative
August 13th, 2009
2:48 pm
Cash for clunkers – my info is that both Republican & Democratic congressmen from districts with auto factories came up with this idea.
White House did not like & sent Emanuel to kill the bill. Emanuel delayed & by the time he got to the House there were a bunch of co-signers. The bill was for $4 billion. Emanuel talked them into just $1 billion thinking that no one would be buying autos anyway.
It’s easy to be wrong.
Report this comment
ctucker
August 13th, 2009
2:49 pm
reservoirDAWG — I’m not the sensitive, shrinking violet type. I couldn’t have survived the opinion-writing dodge this long if I were. I celebrate the First Amendment. But I do hope you have more to contribute than vulgarity. Your momma would be disappointed in you, I’ll sure.
Report this comment
mike
August 13th, 2009
3:06 pm
According to Amnesty International:
““For the approximately 600 detainees held in the US air base in Bagram in Afghanistan, the change in US administration has likewise meant little or no change in their situation. Detainees held in the base still have no access to judicial review and no access to legal counsel, with the administration continuing to apply a global “war” legal paradigm and resisting access to the US courts even for those who have been held for years after being arrested as far away from Afghanistan as Thailand and United Arab Emirates.”
Do you think Cynthia is unaware of what is going on at Bagram? Or is she consciously adopting a hypocritical stance for partisan reasons?
Report this comment
Kirkfish
August 13th, 2009
3:10 pm
I have never udnerstood why Gtmo has such a bad rap as a prison. The detainees get better treatment, better food, and much better working conditions than sailors did when it was a training base for ships in refresher training or on shakedown cruises.
Report this comment
Steve
August 13th, 2009
3:10 pm
I’m not sure what the point of the move is…seems mostly for publicity. Does Cynthia honsetly think moving these war prisoners will change any terrorist mind?
Moving them seems similar an old army punishment of moving a sandpile from one location to another. Nothing is accomplished other than tiring the person responsible for moving the pile.
Report this comment
Chris Broe
August 13th, 2009
3:21 pm
At least Cynthia doesn’t coddle trolls the way Bookman does. There’s nothing lower than coddling trolls.
Nothing.
Report this comment
kelly
August 13th, 2009
3:24 pm
There are plenty of “lies” & false information being spread by all parties Democrat, Republic, Political Commentators(like Ms. Tucker) Talking heads on TV, etc. What we are NOT getting is the truth so that we the public can help make an informed decision on the issue as critical as health care. So we will end up with a plan put together by a group of people ( Democrats&Republicans) who are only interested in satisfying enough people to keep being elected year after year.
AND PLEASE STOP lumping all people 65 & over as being “overjoyed” at being on Medicare. A large number of were forced to go Medicare at 65 with no choice allowed. Many of us would have been more that happy to stay with our private insurance even at an increased cost.
Report this comment
Harold
August 13th, 2009
3:29 pm
It worked , they dropped the provision. Now they need to scuttle the whole bill.
Report this comment
Mac
August 13th, 2009
3:31 pm
I’ve got a guzzler, but have to have it to haul with. I’d love to have a high-mileage vehicle for other driving, though. But, right now, I cannot afford it … because I need to keep the guzzler.
Report this comment
Mac
August 13th, 2009
3:32 pm
high mpg I should have said.
Report this comment
Fitzgerald
August 13th, 2009
3:34 pm
If the Gitmo prisoners are housed in a general prison population somewhere in the USA, what are the chances that they would survive very long? Prisons have the gangs that don’t really care about the terrorists from Gitmo. If the Gitmo prisoners are sent to the Standish prison, would Obama take away the guns that the Standish city manager is referencing?
Report this comment
Californication
August 13th, 2009
3:47 pm
Well Cynthia, put your money where your mouth is, since you claim that they have done no wrong, tell Obozo that you would be happy to host them at your house. Problem solved.
Report this comment
JackLeg
August 13th, 2009
3:49 pm
Doesn’t make you wonder if these are really bad guys? Their own countries won’t even take them back. But don’t worry liberal logic will give them a home. Liberal, and logic in the same sentence, that’s a mistake.
Report this comment
WBK
August 13th, 2009
3:50 pm
Cynthia, I think you better stick to commentary without a blog. Hardly anyone agrees with you and you seem to bring out the worst evern in good people. You and Michelle finally got to love this country.
Report this comment
Florida Fan
August 13th, 2009
3:52 pm
I’m disappointed that the program even allows for pick-up trucks and hummers to be purchased. If that’s the case, the program is a joke. Trading in an old car for one that gets 2 mpg less (based on the auto companies mpg data, which is suspect to begin with) is a teeny, tiny band aid on co2 emissions. And kudos to Cynthia for her reply to reservoirDAWG. I wouldn’t have wasted my time.
Report this comment
Rufus
August 13th, 2009
4:08 pm
These poor innocent terrorist, who go to all those bad prisons, and are treated better than in their home country, how about an American solder who become a prisoner in their hands of these innocent terrorist, who will dismember them, and cut them up and throw the body pieces in a river, and keep the head to play with.
I don’t hear these two face, journalists accusing the terrorist of doing anything bad at all.
There is nothing wrong with the prison in Gitmo, already housing these parasite, why bring them here, we have enough trash in this country and enough Anti-America, organization that go by all various names.
American people need to wake-up, and stop letting the other side take over. Has nothing to do that you’re a republican or a democrat.
Stop, being a hypocrite, and complaint about your country, the only thing that’s wrong in America, are the liars, distorted, and small mined, who never can find anything good about America.
Report this comment
ben quiet
August 13th, 2009
4:28 pm
OUCH!
Report this comment
Michael
August 13th, 2009
4:30 pm
Whew! I feel so much better about health care since Oh Holy Knight and Axelgrease are sending out emails that explain the health care stuff. I can slip back into the bliss abyss and take comfort that I will have this gift that is going to just make my life so wonderful.
We thank thee Obama for this government health care that we are about to receive and bless it to the nourishment of our bodies. Take every day our daily bread and distribute it back unto us as you see fit. Amen!
Now… could someone please pass me the end of life counseling? I need a little on my potatoes.
Report this comment
Atlanta Native
August 13th, 2009
4:53 pm
The point that interests me is the statement quoted by Ms. Tucker about them having guns and being hunters. Based on MANY previous columns she has written she is very supportive of ANY gun control bill to get the guns out of the hands of citizens.
Why, then, does Ms. Tucker find that quote relevant to the story, as these sorts of folks who “cling to their guns and religion” are the sort of people she thinks are ruining America. Is it fair to send the detainees to such a backward place full of ignorant, hillbillies (they aren’t rednecks up north)?
Report this comment
Closed Comments
August 13th, 2009
5:02 pm
ctucker – If you’re “not the sensitive, shrinking violet type”, why are most of your comment sections closed?
Report this comment
Atlanta Native
August 13th, 2009
5:09 pm
resevoirDAWG:
That’s graduate FROM college. By saying “graduate college” your comment loses any impact. Kinda like when an ath-a-lete axes a question.
Report this comment
Tru
August 13th, 2009
5:12 pm
Love thy enemy
pray for those that persecute you.
Report this comment
Roger
August 13th, 2009
5:27 pm
I agree with the person that said Cynthia was only concerned about her own job. She HAS to write articles that “go against the grain” to get attention. More readers equal more job security.
Report this comment
Pat
August 13th, 2009
5:31 pm
Cynthia, don’t take “ReservoirDAWG” personally – or seriously.
He hates anyone slightly left of Mussolini. And his charming manners are always on display.
Ask Jay, his favorite target.
Report this comment
Fang1944
August 13th, 2009
5:58 pm
I am astonished at the vitriol in these posts. All Ms. Tucker did in this column was report on the plan to move the prisoners to a supermax prison. I think I sense some good, old Georgia racism here.
And apparently the President can do no right.
Report this comment
Jeff
August 13th, 2009
7:09 pm
I would like to see how a small car would tow a 4000 lb ski boat, with 2 kids, and large dog to the lake each weekend. An intelligent buyer would do research and understand that any of the Hummer line of vehicles (H2, H3, H3T) get very comparable mpg as vehicles in their class. There are reasons some people can afford to own a Hummer. There are reasons people need govt to help hold their hand too.
Report this comment
Atlanta Native
August 13th, 2009
8:16 pm
Not me. I have believed in safe, high mpg cars for years.
Report this comment
Atlantan
August 13th, 2009
8:21 pm
AJC, please close your comments section or I will stop reading this paper. With the internet, I don’t need you anymore. These comments are completely inappropriate and offensice. You are giving sociopaths a platform to speak.
Report this comment
Carter is a Fool
August 13th, 2009
9:13 pm
Speaking of Cash for Clunkers, how much did we get by trading you to Washington? Wait, you still writing this drivel. Drat.
Report this comment
Fang1944
August 13th, 2009
9:29 pm
I’m already driving a hybrid when I’m not on my motorcycle.
Report this comment
MikeB
August 13th, 2009
10:42 pm
Feel good is right………What about all the independent small repair shops that serviced those clunkers? Those small businesses have been hung out to dry by this program,
Once again the Obama Adminstration shows they are not the friend of small businesses, they campaigned to be before the election.
The problem with Idealogues like Obama, is that what ever they accomplish will never be enough. They will continue until you live the life they want you to live, while they live the lives everyone dreams of. Essentially a different set of rules for them then what they legislate for you.
Not the “change” most envisioned in the voting booth. Though many dare not admit this truth.
Report this comment
Greg in Virginia Highlands
August 14th, 2009
2:47 am
Those that buy into this program are fools. Do the math- Trade a no car note, $30 a month insurance and a $20 a year tag car for a $200+ car note, $80 a month insurance and $300 a year tag. P. T. Barnum said it best- “A fool and his money are soon parted”.
Report this comment
Craig Spinks /Augusta
August 14th, 2009
2:48 am
Did the feds reinstitute the tax credit for Hummer buyers?
Report this comment
Russ
August 14th, 2009
6:41 am
OK, look at the long term ramifications of this program. If the clunkers that were traded in were all driveable, tagged, and insured for the last year as required that means they all passed emissions test. Tell me how long will it be before the cars that were bought under this program will begin to help reduce overall emissions and polution. The engine produce large amounts of smoke before they finally die. Then the crushers run on diesel fuel and produce lots of black smoke while doing the crushing. Then the trucks hauling the dead carcuses to the recycling location use more fuel. Then there’s more fuel consumed in shipping the scrap to China or somewhere else. Then there is more energy used in manufacturing new cars that replace the clunkers, and it goes on and on. This administration that is in place never seems to think of the long term effects of the programs that they shove on the American people. To scrap thousands of perfectly good cars is just ludicris.
Report this comment
jt
August 14th, 2009
8:02 am
“Why can’t we discuss dying with dignity?”
No one is stopping you from discussing this issue. You can even discuss it with a goverment bureaucrat or goverment lawyer if you like.
At the moment, you just can’t do it on my dime.
Report this comment
Bob
August 14th, 2009
8:03 am
People discuss this all the time, I just do not need a gov health plan that states this should be done every five years with me and my doctor.
And do doctors really want to counsel people on living wills ?
Report this comment
Denny
August 14th, 2009
8:24 am
Under any of these 4 Bills there will be, there has to be, Committees or Boards, or if you will, Panels that review all aspects of medical care. These Federal employees will make decisions about who gets what when and how. This is unavoidable.
I choose to not be at the mercy of some Federal Board set up like the IRS or worse the Postal Service. Thank you.
Report this comment
Michael H. Smith
August 14th, 2009
8:43 am
Why can’t “we” discuss dying with dignity?
We can, Ms. Tucker but our government can’t, and we should never allow government anywhere near this area. That includes making mandates as to what WE SHALL discuss as determined under HR 3200 Sec. 1233.
‘‘Advance Care Planning Consultation
‘‘(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the
term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a con
sultation between the individual and a practitioner de
scribed in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning,
if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has
not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
consultation “shall” include the following:
I’ve noticed that you and Mr. Bookman avoid the House version in favor of using what Senator Isakson offered in the Senate’s version, where the wording is very different.
From Senator Isakson:
Isakson vehemently opposes the House and Senate health care bills and he played no role in drafting language added to the House bill by House Democrats calling for the government to incentivize doctors by offering them money to conduct “end-of-life counseling” with Medicare patients every five years. Isakson also strongly opposed the House bill language calling for doctors to follow a government-mandated list of topics to discuss with patients during the counseling sessions.
By contrast, Isakson took a very different approach in July during the Senate HELP Committee hearings on the Senate version of the health care bill. Isakson’s amendment to the Senate bill says that anyone who participates in the long-term care benefit provided in the bill – if they so choose – may use that benefit to obtain assistance in formulating their own living will and durable power of attorney.
Report this comment
jack
August 14th, 2009
8:54 am
If they are white republicans, they not only should be required a consultation about dying but should be actively encouraged to consider that as an option.If they are white republicans from the South, they should be required to have this done.
Report this comment
What They Are Saying: 08.14.09 | AnnotatedOpinions.com
August 14th, 2009
8:55 am
[...] Why can’t we discuss dying with dignity? [Atlanta Journal-Constitution] [...]
Report this comment
Pat
August 14th, 2009
9:13 am
Jt, Bob, Mike & Co:
I agree. Government certainly shouldn’t be in the business of requiring people to consider their
end-of-life options with their doctor (and wouldn’t be under this bill – it’s not mandated). Nor should government have to take on the job of explaining to kids that sexual intercourse has life-altering consequences, like pregnancy, disease, even death.
But here’s why government gets stuck having to do these things, and yes, on “your dime:”
Because too many of YOU (my apologies if you’re not one of them) simply refuse to have any difficult, painful or embarrassing discussions with loved ones on these topics -
and the consequences run up tabs of MILLIONS of dollars – costs paid by the taxpayers!
All over America, in hospitals, nursing homes and rehab centers, dying people lie helplessly by while their spouses, siblings and offspring battle tooth and nail over what’s to happen to Mom, with Mom unable to voice her wishes in the debate – and as expensive machines, treatments and interventions prolong her life at the cost of thousands per day. If Mom had expressed her desire to fight on, even with terminal pain, to prolong her days and said so in writing, spending those dollars would be a no-brainer. If she can’t express her wishes, continuing treatment is distasteful when it prolongs pain, but still perhaps the safer ethical default. But why can’t we say to the public, “You won’t discuss this issue? Well, fine – but every 5 years, your doctor’s going to remind you that counseling is important and available.”
Same with actual sex education – not the abstinence-only fantasies we’re wasting money on now. Parents just aren’t doing their job at teaching it at home – and God forbid we let schools tell hormone-crazed teens that putting a piece of latex between male and female genitalia might actually keep them from destroying their lives and futures. I guess it’s more “moral” to just keep mass-producing tots without pops, shelling out the Aid to Dependent Families, and raise taxes to build more prisons.
It’s crazy to see the mouth-breathers getting their panties into a twist on this “death panel” nonsense. Wake up, whack-jobs: right now, your insurance company is having real “death panels” every day that condemn people to premature death by refusing cancer treatments, transplants and other necessary procedures. But if you’re a good Repub, guess it’s insurance “death panel” = good, government counseling = bad.
This isn’t about logic – it’s about an industry determined to win at any cost.
Report this comment
ctucker
August 14th, 2009
9:35 am
Jack,
I’d like this discussion to continue civilly without advocating the demise of those with whom we disagree. Thanks much.
Report this comment
Citizen of the World
August 14th, 2009
9:36 am
Isn’t it ironic that the original end-of-life counseling proposal came from a Republican, Johnny Isakson. But, of course, once the concept becomes part of any proposed health care reform by Democrats, it’s no longer a good idea and it’s twisted into a “death panel.”
I wish my mother’s doctor would talk to her about end of life issues and her wishes. I have a very hard time broaching the subject.
And, also, in our culture where so many people remain unmarried and childless, they may not even have a family member to discuss these issues with.
Report this comment
Michael H. Smith
August 14th, 2009
9:43 am
Yes Pat, YOU certainly could exclude ME from one of those, who as YOU say, have never faced making the very, very, very, difficult decisions.
Given the imperfections of human beings there are no perfect answers, Pat. Given the imperfections in government, combined with the powers government, as history has shown allowing government anywhere near end of life area has resulted in the most horrid events imaginable. This is a slippery slope we should never allow government to step upon, not even the suggestion of taking the first one in that direction which HR 3200 Sec 1233 does.
Think of people like Jack, then think of Germany Pat.
Perhaps YOU are willing to risk to that chance to save a few taxpayer bucks. I will stand with the Jews and say, never again!
Report this comment
Bicycles
August 14th, 2009
9:46 am
I think anyone using this program should trade their fuel efficient vehicle in for a bicycle and a bus pass. And I get to keep my $4,500 worth of taxes!
Report this comment
How Sarah Palin May Have (or not) Indirectly Saved Journalism, Scored a HUGE Political Victory, and Stole the Show, Again « The Now Media Reporter
August 14th, 2009
9:59 am
[...] 1.) Atlanta Journal Constitution: GOP Senator Doesn’t Like Palin’s Lies [...]
Report this comment
jconservative
August 14th, 2009
10:12 am
I agree that the end of life discussions between a patient, doctor & the patients family is not an item that the taxpayer needs to fund.
This is none of the governments business, any government.
My father-in-law is 95 & dying very slowly. The family had a very long discussion with his doctor. The doctor never billed for the time he spent counseling us. Very few will.
This does not need to be in any bill.
Report this comment
jconservative
August 14th, 2009
10:24 am
Citizen of the World.
“And, also, in our culture where so many people remain unmarried and childless, they may not even have a family member to discuss these issues with.”
———–
Excellent point and entirely correct. I know several people who fit into this category including family members. I still say discussion
can take place with the doctor, minister or anyone in whom you have confidence. I just do not believe that this is something the taxpayer
should fund. As a society, we just cannot continue to rely on government as the savior of all our problems.
I guess you & I will continue to “agree to disagree”.
Report this comment
lovelyliz
August 14th, 2009
10:43 am
Funny thing is the GOP, Blue Dogs and their lobbyist supporters have no problem with insurance death panels. They aught to talk to Nataline Sarkisyan’s family
Report this comment
lovelyliz
August 14th, 2009
10:45 am
jack
I’m glad that I am not the only one who noticed how singularly caucasian these protesters/plants are.
Report this comment
Kayaker 71
August 14th, 2009
11:02 am
liz,
Did you ever stop to realize that the color of their skin makes absolutely no difference in the debate. The reason why black people, in large part, do not show up at these debates is that this would dis their wonder boy and we can’t have that, now can we? For the most part, these people are not plants. They are concerned citizens, not “brown shirt Nazis”, as Howard Dean called them. They don’t trust the system and the people who are running it, plain and simple. They have every right to yell, scream, rant and jump up and down if they want to. It’s call free speech, or maybe you haven’t heard of that.
Report this comment
lovelyliz
August 14th, 2009
11:03 am
What really gets me about the whole “death panel to kill Grandma & Down Syndrome children”, is they are easy sound bites that are out and out LIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Perhaps that it of itself explains why the GOP has almost total failed to start any argument against these bills with any dispute of substance, let alone presented a plan of their own. Perhaps salacious gossip and lies are all it takes to get a certain portion of the electorate riles up. They certainly don’t require that any one read any portion of the proposed legislation let alone do any research.
Report this comment
Mac
August 14th, 2009
11:05 am
Then don’t, Denny. Pay for private health insurance and do what you want. As for me, I favor a healthcare plan like those in the other Western democracies. Sure, it’ll cut down the obscene profits of the drug companies and other healthcare-related companies to reasonable profits. But, most importantly, it’ll save citizens money and ensure their quality care, so matter where they stand financially at the moment they need it. A person I know had a major health emergency in Australia and he entire bill was less than $5,000, when it would have been tens of thousands of dollars here. And, don’t talk about rationed care. The NHS in Britain gives people the care they need. Insurance companies here work very hard to deny any claim they can. And, they are constantly changing codes, wording, etc. to be able to deny or delay paying claims over improperly filled out paperwork. Bring on a U.S. NHS.
Report this comment
Frank Falcone
August 14th, 2009
11:06 am
1994 4runner 3.0 V6 for a 2009 Hummer H3 with the Adventure package. Hummer gets 3-5 MPG better than the Toyota and kills my beloved ‘yota off road.
No joke, the ‘yota got solid 15 MPG pretty much all the time. I little less around town, a little more on the freeway if you kept it at 65. The darn Hummer gets 20 MPG at 65 MPH, tows more, and can tackle much harder trains. I love to wheel it.
Report this comment
Nerlman
August 14th, 2009
11:08 am
“They are concerned citizens, not “brown shirt Nazis”, as Howard Dean called them. They don’t trust the system and the people who are running it, plain and simple.”
Yes, and they are also willfully uninformed and responding to the manipulation of the right-wing crazies. Sad.
Report this comment
jack
August 14th, 2009
11:09 am
lovely liz, i am glad that you share my fondness for genocide.
Report this comment
lovelyliz
August 14th, 2009
11:10 am
Kayaker 71
It does make a difference when you are trying to present these folks as representative of America. Not that none of them aren’t GOP/corporate lobbyists plants who have more of a disagreement with the fact that President Obama is a black man, but they certainly aren’t your average-concerned, up on the fatcs, issue voter.
There are more of the non-homgenoues white persons in this country than there are white folks and I say this as a white person.
Report this comment
Citizen of the World
August 14th, 2009
11:17 am
Well, it seems to me that if the government is going to provide taxpayer-funded Medicare to seniors, then it’s not much of an overreach for the government to require and pay for some counseling for end-of-life issues — especially with the mixed blessing of modern medicine, which often prolongs suffering and dying as much as it prolongs life.
This requirement would ensure that senior citizens have communicated their wishes to their caregivers and, even though the government has paid for it, actually save taxpayer money in the long run.
Report this comment
Donnie
August 14th, 2009
11:45 am
Did you know insurance company employees are paid bonuses for denying claims? The system is broken. Let’s fix it.
Report this comment
Angie
August 14th, 2009
12:17 pm
Good Point Donnie. The healthcare system is broken. It is funny to me how critical we can become of change especially when the current healthcare system is ALL about profit. We should be outraged at the current healthcare system. How do we so blindly trust the current healthcare system when the only time they will make a profit is when we are sick? And, I am absolutely tired of insurance companies who collect insurance premiums and then deny claims to pre-existing conditions, especially when it is the SAME insurance company just because you change employment! A change is needed. We may not agree on how to go about doing it. However, we need to have a civil discussion about it. No one hears you when you are being rude, disrepectful, and nasty.
Report this comment
Jack
August 14th, 2009
1:09 pm
If folks would quit buying lotto, cigarettes & beer, they’d have enough money to buy their own health insurance: they wouldn’t have to depend on employers or the government.
Report this comment
Carter is a Fool
August 14th, 2009
1:19 pm
Loveyliz is prejudiced. The left cannot stand taht this is not what Americans want. Kayaker71 is correct. There is nothing about skin color in the debate about not wanting the government to control healthcare. Obama lied. He said he favored a single payer system and then later said he did not say he favored a single payer system. He flat out lied. Now I am a corporate brown shirt terrorist for reporting his lie.
What kind of country is this becoming when the White House sets up a site for the public to report others who are giving “scary stories” about healthcare reform. When I was in China, this is what I heard about Mao. Children would turn in their parents for any comment against the supreme leader and then the Parents would be sent to camp during the Cultural Revolution for re-education.
Seems like the first step on the same same road.
Report this comment
Michael H. Smith
August 14th, 2009
1:21 pm
I don’t trust the insurance companies, Angie. I don’t trust the government or drug companies or trial lawyers or these crummy unions that are getting involved and I don’t want the PUBLIC OPTION. I prefer the consumer mutual healthcare non-profit insurance cooperatives now being developed by a bipartisan group of six Senators, which Senator Conrad is mainly advocating. It will take government out of the equation and take other things like end of life, abortion, drug rehab and a host of other things many people object to being forced through their tax dollars to pay for which will be the case under any government ran system.
When it comes to trust Angie, Ludlow Porch, gave the best advice anyone could ever use: Trust nobody but your mama, and you best keep one eye on her.
Report this comment
Carter is a Fool
August 14th, 2009
1:24 pm
Speaking of death counseling, has the liberal AJC received death counseling as it is dying a slow death from the once great paper to the rag it is now. It now resembles the Great Speckled Bird in the print size and thickness and has opinions and reporting dominated by the tree hugging looney left such as Tucker and Bookman. I would be remiss if I failed to include the poison pen scribblingss of cartoon boy – Looneyvitch. What a shame that it has come to this. The Journal was a great paper in its day and then lost its identity when the kooks took over and distorted the news.
Oh well thank goodness for other sources of information and the laughter I get from reading these silly opinion pages.
Report this comment
Jeff
August 14th, 2009
1:50 pm
Yes, my wife’s H3 is very consistant with getting between 19-20 mpg. Even hit 19 mpg packed full with cargo carrier on top. Safe to say, I’ve been pretty impressed with it towing, and in the snow. Plus if you do some cost of ownership research, you will find it gets a very low cost of ownership rating of “excellent”. We saved tons of money buying the H3 when gas was $4. Again, I did research, and ignored the media hype.
Report this comment
Kayaker 71
August 14th, 2009
1:51 pm
When the Americans with Disability Act was passed in 1990, the provision to include those who were HIV positive became a political hot potato that no one wanted to confront. It was shunned by most legislators and only included because no one wanted to vote against it for fear of being politically incorrect and being call homophobes. Being HIV positive or having contracted AIDS is no more disabling than someone with compromised heart disease or poorly controlled diabetes. But our lawmakers were afraid to confront this dilemma because of loosing the gay vote and being called names. What is to say that in the future, the same thing could not happen with changes in the health care bill that make it more “accommodating”. We just do not trust these elected officials to represent our interests… they are too busy representing their own. The health care debate goes much deeper than just this one issue. America is dissatisfied with having government intrude into their lives and make decisions for them that they are very capable of making themselves…. and we simply do not trust them, none of them.
Report this comment
bromack
August 14th, 2009
3:13 pm
We can talk about it…. but when the government gets involved thats when we get on that slippery slope that soon turns it into euthenasia.
I don’t wanna find myself in that position like the lady in Oregon who was told she couldn’t get any more medicine for her condition but was offered free pills for her death.
Report this comment
arnold
August 14th, 2009
4:29 pm
It seems to be the same right wingers who demonstrated concerning Terry Schiavo who also seem to be complaining and protesting the most.
Living wills should be re-evaluated periodically. Situations change, surrogates need to be re-valuated and a persons attitude and beliefs change.
I also don’t understand the fear of government also in the insurance business with private companies. Conservatives claim the government is inefficient, then government won’t be able to compete with private enterprise. However, look at fed Ex and UPS. Then compare them to the Post Office. Crying out loud, why fear the government. Medicare works fine if the politicians wouldn’t raid SS and Medicare funds.
Report this comment
lovelyliz
August 14th, 2009
4:42 pm
Ever notice how right-wingers who want to claim inclusion bristle at the mere identification of the lack of diversity? Or in this case the almost total lack of diversity coming from those arguing the case most violently?
Report this comment
Michael H. Smith
August 14th, 2009
5:29 pm
Guess I’ve been kicked out of the notorious right wing. I raised hell over the GOP getting involved in the Terry Schiavo case. The plan I support on healthcare would be far more inclusive than anything now offered in any of those Public Option plans and would accommodate the plurality of this nation with the least amount of divisiveness.
I can buy a claw hammer for less than $7, government has been known to spend a hundred times that amount for a claw hammer, I should trust government?
It was so good of the President to use the postal service to promote his Public Option.
Not exactly what most would call a cost efficiency success stories.
Of course those stories are not quite as good as the claim he used that the AARP endorsed his Public Option but close.
Oh and did any on the left see the “union muscle” that has been brought into these debates? Just saying…
Report this comment
Uncle Fester
August 14th, 2009
6:47 pm
Hey old farts against universal healthcare, I don’t see you lining up to cancel your govt. provided medicare, not one peep when G.W. was pushing thru Part D. or sending our troops to fight for oil-compassionate conservatism means I got mine turn of the faucet. Please do us all a favor and off yourselves…..
Report this comment
Just because
August 14th, 2009
7:40 pm
Excuse me if I want to continue my life and it “cost” to do so . . . so be it! I’ve lived my life and and for many years paid for health care when I had none and paid for health care even when I had health insurance (the premiums, the deductibles, the co-insurance, the co-pays and the non-covered). I’ve paid for health care for others through my taxes (i.e., Medicaid, Medicare, Medicare Disability, SSI, etc.) and for all those uninsured who go to the ER. To provide in federal legislation for end-of-life counseling is absurd. Most doctors tell patients and family members what their options are already. There is absolutely no need nor any place for provisions in a federal legislation for this. And, I and my family members should determine if and when we need to confer with our doctor in this regard. My life is as valuable as anyone else’s. Anyway for are seniors the only ones who targeted in this regard . . . why would this counseling not be available to younger people who are terminally ill. It is because there are those who want to eliminate the senior population who by the way pay a great portion of taxes. So, if seniors are eliminated I guess those young . . sit-on-thier butts would have to get out and go to work!
Report this comment
Michael H. Smith
August 14th, 2009
8:01 pm
This is getting all too depressing. I can’t even get into the old farts club. Too young for Medicare, I support non-government owned, controlled and administered universal healthcare for every U.S. citizen and tried to get Georgia’s Senators at the time shortly before Part D was passed to vote against it becoming law, though, admitting I’d likely be one who would probably need it eventually. Shucks I don’t even have a lousy oil-compassion!
What an Obumer.
Ah but there is still hope if the Senate six can get sound reason to prevail on non-government consumer non-profit mutual healthcare insurance cooperatives; perhaps I’ll never need Medicare or part D. That would be nice not to put all those entitlement debts onto the backs generations of Americans.
Report this comment
Michael H. Smith
August 14th, 2009
8:43 pm
OMG, Rev. Al Sharpton and Republican former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, to push cities to fix failing schools. The dignity of discuss has set a new record. Hopefully it will not require a mandated end of life consultation.
From the AP…
“I think that he has it exactly right, that education has to be the No. 1 civil right of the 21st century and I’ve been passionate about reforming education,” Gingrich said. “And we can’t get it done as a partisan issue.”
Sharpton said the time has come to “change the conversation … to say we need to put everybody’s hands on the table.”
He said he believes that “if there’s anything Americans should be mature enough about to have a decent conversation, it’s the education of their children.”
~
Amazing how in America, ordinary people do the most extraordinary things.
Report this comment
Laura Antoniou
August 14th, 2009
9:52 pm
Funny how the right wing that so often demands that abortion providers “shall be required” to talk about all sorts of things before they can actually do what the patient came in for suddenly doesn’t want health care providers to do the SAME THING – talk about *options* without leaving out the ones that are uncomfortable to talk about. If the argument is that the government shouldn’t place guidelines on what a doctor needs to tell a patient, I will be eagerly looking for all of these people to back off their bills requiring just that.
Report this comment
Craig Spinks /Augusta
August 14th, 2009
11:52 pm
THANKS, Cynthia, for confronting us with our inevitable fate and for challenging us to plan accordingly.
Report this comment
Micahel H. Smith
August 15th, 2009
7:40 am
The argument for most on the right is no government Public Option, period. All the opposition to side issues written therein remain basically the same: No government funded abortion and no government imposed euthanasia.
Oops forgot one…. no healthcare for illegal aliens.
The left wing remains looking eagerly disingenuous and equally disappointed.
Report this comment
Question
August 15th, 2009
10:37 am
Take a look at the following two items
1) Asked whether he would have handled his verbal confrontation in Douglasville differently, [David] Scott is quick to answer. “Absolutely not,” he said.
2) the video of Sheila Jackson-Lee’s interview with Greta Van Susternen.
Both support the public’s view of the dems as arrogant and pompous. Who do these people think they work for????
Report this comment
Sherl
August 15th, 2009
11:03 am
Remember the 2003 Medicare prescription drug bill, the one that passed with the votes of 204 GOP House members and 42 GOP Senators? Anyone want to guess what it provided funding for? Did you say counseling for end-of-life issues and care? Ding ding ding!!
So either Republicans were for death panels in 2003 before turning against them now–or they’re lying about end-of-life counseling in order to frighten the bejeezus out of their fellow citizens and defeat health reform by any means necessary. Which is it?
Report this comment
Jeff in Roswell
August 15th, 2009
11:16 am
You can’t please everyone, but you do have to determine what the MAJORITY would like. I am not for this healthcare plan. I would agree though, that there should be changes to the system. The largest concern for me about this debate is CHOICE. I want a choice. I want the FREEDOM to choose what healthcare I need. Do you consider that selfish? Maybe, but at what point do you have to concern yourself with what everybody else needs? I think the problem starts at the top. First of all Obama is ramrodding this thing to get it passed. People do not have a clear view of what this bill entails. Why can’t the government be consistent? Why can’t they all be on the same page? Our representatives cannot answer the questions presented to them – and if they do, they give their interpretations. If Obama wants this thing to come to light, he has to be completely open on the subject. They have to CONVINCE the American people that this is a good thing. Evidenced by the town hall meetings, they are not doing it. Come on Obama, gather everyone up. Get them together on the key issues. Present it to the people. Don’t try to hide any facts about your proposal and SELL us on your idea. You need to figure out if the people want this. You need to figure out if this really is a good thing for our people? In current proposal, I would vote NO.
Wouldn’t it have been smarter to have our representatives have Town Hall meetings before a bill was written up? Wouldn’t it have been smarter to ask us – the American people, the ones that pay for this government to operate, what we thought? Ask us what our concerns about healthcare are and what we would like to see changed. Gather the data and gives us a bill that reflects our needs?
It’s all just a big friggen, disgusting mess. More of the same from these idiots – both sides of the aisle.
Report this comment
Uncle Fester
August 15th, 2009
11:42 am
I’m all for euthanasia for senior citizens. Next time the old farts want to start a war for oil-lets send them to blow up babies. The oldest generation needs to go-they have done enough damage in the name of God, Country, and Religion. We could bury them in their Lincoln Town Cars, think of the savings. Geezers and Clunkers begone.
Report this comment
Michael H. Smith
August 15th, 2009
12:06 pm
Can you say…. Ding Dong! Ding Dong! Where is the government mandate in the 2003 Medicare prescription drug bill that would impose end of life counseling parallel to what is found in HR 3200 Sec. 1233?
Report this comment
Eloy Villa
August 15th, 2009
1:32 pm
Is Obamacare about reform or is it really about the government taking over health care? Obama has taken over the auto industry, banking, and housing and now he wants health care. What’s after that, grocery stores? Why not just abolish private ownership of everything in one swoop.
Report this comment
david wayne osedach
August 15th, 2009
2:18 pm
Those who want to can discuss dying with dignity. It should not be amajor tenet of the proposed national health care program. There are much more important facets to be addressed.
Report this comment
Thomas Jefferson
August 15th, 2009
6:48 pm
Nice try distancing CTucker AJC….you still suck and no one will buy your rag…you still have an Obamite pretending to run the show….AJC is irrelevant and I hope it is replaced by a real paper…
Report this comment
Michael H. Smith
August 16th, 2009
6:27 am
Let us simplify things for the President and the Democrats over this end of life consultation provision: Remove the mandate found in HR 3200 Sec. 1233 and there no longer be a reason or rhyme to oppose end of life consultations being offered pursuant to the individual’s free choosing.
Let us simplify things for the President and the Democrats over this end of life consultation provision: Remove the mandate found in HR 3200 Sec. 1233 and there no longer be a reason or rhyme to oppose end of life consultations being offered pursuant to the individual’s free choosing.
“Advance Care Planning Consultation
‘‘(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the
term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a con
sultation between the individual and a practitioner de
scribed in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning,
if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has
not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
consultation
“shall”“MAY” include the following:There you have it Ms. Tucker, now you or anyone else can talk however long, as dignified or indignant as anyone “MAY” prefer, on any decisions concerning the end of life – Controversy over on end of life.
However, beyond the present scope of this blog topic remains a great deal of controversy in resolving the two fundamental parts of what should be the national healthcare system of our country. The first part is healthcare insurance reform. The second part is reforming the entire healthcare system. The plan Mr. Obama and the Democrats offer fails miserably in achieving that goal, even in so much as another acceptable imperfect government plan.
Presently government owns controls and administers outright Medicare, TRICARE, Medicaid and SCHIP. The only remaining part of healthcare government does not own, control and administers outright is the healthcare of the remaining general population. Like it or not Ms. Tucker for all practical intents and purposes we already have a socialized healthcare system. Should any such Public Option or single payer system or called by any other name government healthcare program be enacted into law, all doubts shall be removed: Healthcare in American will be in the domain of SOCIALISM and as a consequence solely germane to the government.
Report this comment
Michael H. Smith
August 16th, 2009
6:33 am
My apologies for the editing error, though, for the liberal left wingers my errant duplication really does merit the use of vain repetition.
Report this comment
Bob
August 16th, 2009
7:46 am
Pat, what world do you live in to think that these 16 year olds don’t know what sex is and what will happen if they do it.
Report this comment
I Report/ I Am The Mob :-) You Whine :-(
August 16th, 2009
7:49 am
Actually, it’s Terri Schiavo, but whatever.
Considering that she died a horrible and brutal death, prolonged for political purposes by the liberals, of course, I can’t blame you for hoping that you avoid a personal demise such as that.
Seems as though I remember you having no issues with wishing it on her, though.
But the big question is, what business is it of yours or the federal government to usher people along to the afterlife?
There are those that fight for life. And there are those who fight for death.
Think about that for a moment.
Report this comment
Mary Davidson
August 16th, 2009
8:18 am
I’m utterly baffled at people’s attitudes. This new health measure says you CAN have death counseling every 5 years, not that you MUST. And NO ONE is going to tell you if, when, or how you must die. Can’t folks read? Please read the bill before believing what the republican scare machine says.
Report this comment
Real
August 16th, 2009
8:27 am
lovelyliz at 10:45am August 14 — I’m glad that I am not the only one who noticed how singularly caucasian these protesters/plants are.
Can it be that the generational government dependent leeches do not attend because it would be counter to their entitlement way of thinking (giving them credit for thinking). They have more important things to do — like get another cell, plasma, or Escalade; or perhaps pop out another child by yet another different man…
Report this comment
Charles Jensen
August 16th, 2009
8:37 am
Ms Tucker:
You could not be more right and wrong at the same time. The key is that you chose to designate your brother to make those difficult decisions about your life, not the government. Therein lies the key difference! Don’t try to portray this as anything it is not.
Regards,
Charles
Report this comment
Michael H. Smtih
August 16th, 2009
9:12 am
Mary Davidson
August 16th, 2009
8:18 am
Mary not to be argumentative but HR 3200 Sec. 1233 says the following:
“Advance Care Planning Consultation”
‘‘(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the
term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a con
sultation between the individual and a practitioner de
scribed in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning,
if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has
not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
consultation “shall” include the following:
SHALL is a long ways from the choice of CAN.
With all due respect when a bill uses the word shall there is no option. That is a mandate cast in legal stone.
To me this matters only because of the mandate, as I’ve said previously I oppose any more government ran healthcare programs period.
Report this comment
ASK WHY
August 17th, 2009
9:09 am
Why do think they’ve changed their minds? The people of the United States have showed their dismay… that’s why the GOP has changed their stance. Every politician does it. They should listen to us more often.
Report this comment
Bob
August 17th, 2009
9:25 am
Bipartisanship! Cynthia, your are the poster child for bipartisanship.
Report this comment
Your morning jolt: Health care and the return of Ralph Reed | Political Insider
August 17th, 2009
9:31 am
[...] Cynthia Tucker wonders why we can’t discuss dying with dignity. [...]
Report this comment
Turd Ferguson
August 17th, 2009
9:35 am
The conservatives are not interested in Socialism either so whats your point?
Report this comment
Alan Wallach
August 17th, 2009
9:46 am
The government might fund VOLUNTARY consultations on end of life decisions. On your dime? Horrors! Your dime already funds obscene health insurance company profits–the same companies that override your doctor’s decision, reject your claims, and, if you look unprofitable, deny you coverage. If you doubt any of this, have a look at the sort of loot those health insurance company CEOs get (below). Now that’s something to get mad about.
ANNUAL COMPENSATION OF HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANY EXECUTIVES (2006 and 2007 figures):
• Ronald A. Williams, Chair/ CEO, Aetna Inc., $23,045,834
• H. Edward Hanway, Chair/ CEO, Cigna Corp, $30.16 million
• David B. Snow, Jr, Chair/ CEO, Medco Health, $21.76 million
• Michael B. MCallister, CEO, Humana Inc, $20.06 million
• Stephen J. Hemsley, CEO, UnitedHealth Group, $13,164,529
• Angela F. Braly, President/ CEO, Wellpoint, $9,094,771
• Dale B. Wolf, CEO, Coventry Health Care, $20.86 million
• Jay M. Gellert, President/ CEO, Health Net, $16.65 million
• William C. Van Faasen, Chairman, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Massachusetts, $3 million plus $16.4 million in retirement benefits
• Charlie Baker, President/ CEO, Harvard Pilgrim Health Care, $1.5 million
• James Roosevelt, Jr., CEO, Tufts Associated Health Plans, $1.3 million
• Cleve L. Killingsworth, President/CEO Blue Cross Blue Shield of Massachusetts, $3.6 million
• Raymond McCaskey, CEO, Health Care Service Corp (Blue Cross Blue Shield), $10.3 million
• Daniel P. McCartney, CEO, Healthcare Services Group, Inc, $ 1,061,513
• Daniel Loepp, CEO, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, $1,657,555
• Todd S. Farha, CEO, WellCare Health Plans, $5,270,825
• Michael F. Neidorff, CEO, Centene Corp, $8,750,751
• Daniel Loepp, CEO, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, $1,657,555
• Todd S. Farha, CEO, WellCare Health Plans, $5,270,825
• Michael F. Neidorff, CEO, Centene Corp, $8,750,751
Report this comment
Wow
August 17th, 2009
9:53 am
Ram it down their throats! Republicans rammed through both of Bush’s tax cuts by way of reconciliation. They also added hundreds of their own amendments to the stimulus bill and then didn’t vote for it. I’m starting to believe Obama is a naive wimp. Do whats in the best interests of the people you voted for, or quit sending me emails when the midterms ramp up. And end-of-life counseling wasn’t socialism when Medicare Part D was passed. At least repubs know they have to make Obama fail, by any means necessary.
Report this comment
Hilary
August 17th, 2009
10:04 am
Democrats, eager to label themselves bipartisan, water-down legislation in hopes of getting a few Republican votes. When the vote comes up only one or two Republicans support the bill and the People end up financing a corporate give-away while the Democrats end up looking as partisan as ever. When Democrats compromise with Republicans, corporations win.
Report this comment
Jeff
August 17th, 2009
10:06 am
How do you define bipartisanship? I define it as both sides willing to compromise not just give in and sacrifice their own ideals. The conservative’s ideas about healthcare/health insurance reform have been resoundingly rejected. It appears that the conservatives have been trying to come up with some good ideas that should be incorporated into any healthcare bill, but they have been resoundingly rejected by the democrats and then they portrayed as the “party of no”. Perhaps the republicans will start to refer to the democrats as the “party of my way or the highway”.
Report this comment
jconservative
August 17th, 2009
10:15 am
Turd Ferguson August 17th, 2009 9:35 am
“The conservatives are not interested in Socialism either…”
I agree that “conservatives” are not interested in Socialism. BUT, Republicans are. That is the rub. Despite all the grandstanding by the Republican Party, this country still has two of the largest Socialist programs in the world – Social Security & Medicare/Medicaid. And 3 Republican presidents, Nixon, Reagan & Bush 43 contributed mightily to both of these Socialist programs. In fact, if not for Reagan, Social Security would probably be gone today.
Name a Republican who is introducing a bill to eliminate either or both of these Socialist programs. You cannot do so. As I continue to point out, talk is easy, actions are another matter.
I have been fighting this encroaching socialism since 1960. For 40 years we conservatives stopped the addition of any new entitlements to the US debt. But then you Republicans decided to elect a “Compassionate
Conservative” to the White House. (Note: compassionate conservative =
Liberal.) So what did Bush 43 do? Another entitlement! He rammed through a Republican controlled congress the Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act (added prescription drugs to Medicare/Medicade). To top that he didn’t even pretend to pay for it.
And all you Republicans voted to re-elect the guy! (If you, in fact, voted against Bush 43, I owe you an apology).
But based on your previous comments to the AJC blogs I would say you are a Republican. But you sir, are no Conservative.
Report this comment
Pip
August 17th, 2009
10:21 am
As all administrations, they pick the straws that are thrown on their Camels back. Obama planted and threw the fertilizer into the field, then brought in his own bailers. What other outcome can you expect?
Report this comment
Mac
August 17th, 2009
10:23 am
There is no government, only politics. Democrats and Republicans have decided the best way to keep party profits rising and winning elections is to automatically disagree with and demonize the other side.The result is no compromise and the whole country is shafted. Hey, but that’s OK, because it’s corporate warfare: Democrat Inc. vs. Republican Inc.
We’re doomed.
Report this comment
Davo
August 17th, 2009
10:33 am
“Abandon bipartisanship, all ye who enter here”
Good advise for anyone that reads this column. I knew this going in, as I’ve seen Tucker bleat her statist opinions on the Sunday ‘news shows’ with that other facist with a heat of gold Paul Krugman.
Don’t mind me though…I’m white and against UHC which makes me a racist in the eyes of the MSM…somehow.
Report this comment
Peadawg
August 17th, 2009
10:44 am
Hey Cynthia, where was all this bipartisan whining the past 8 years? Or is it just happening now b/c you have a democrat in office?
Hypocrite!
Report this comment
Peadawg
August 17th, 2009
10:46 am
Look up hypocrite and racist in the dictionary and Cynthia’s face is right beside them.
Report this comment
Jim morrison
August 17th, 2009
11:22 am
Yeah the great stimulus bill,
That did nothing for America just like all of the other Socialist Racist Ideas from the Obama Camp!
Barry is a joke!
Enough Said!
Report this comment
Dr. R
August 17th, 2009
11:49 am
CT, not to defend Repubs too heavily, since I have left their ranks my ownself, but I find it partisan on your part to lump all GOPers into one hopper. Just because Rush Limbaugh and the other cable TV and radio loudmouths, and a few extreme members of Congress, spread disinformation, that doesn’t mean the whole part is guilty of it. In fact, Sen. Isakson was quick to point out that the whole “death panel” argument was bogus. But you don’t give him or the more reasonable GOPers credit as long as Sarah Palin or Glenn Beck can stir up the nutjobs out there. Don’t paint with such a broad brush, that’s all I’m saying. If the president were decide to go it alone and not reach out to folks who disagree with him honestly and reasonably, he’ll find himself marginalized with the loony left, which remains a decided minority despite popular belief. Most Americans still are in the middle on most issues, and they want consensus. If he ignores that, he’ll be a one-term president. I think he’s smart enough to know that, which is why he’ll continue to reach across the aisle, even when that effort does not bear fruit.
Report this comment
Captain
August 17th, 2009
11:55 am
It’s only bipartisanship when REpublicans are called upon to agree with Democrats. While on the way to praising Obama for appointing Republicans to his Cabinet Cynthia, you conveniently overlook the presence of one Rahm Emanuel as Chief of Staff. The former ballet dancer is one of THE most partisans to ever hold the position. Threats, less than nice language, are the Rahmbo way. Then there is Kathleen Seibelius, the most radical to ever serve at HHS. Let’s not forget Eric Holder as Atty General. Here’s a guy so partisan he wants to investigate and prosecute Bush Admin members for interrogation procedures yet cannot see his way to prosecute the New Black Panther Party for its actions at Pennsylvania voting sites in the 2008 elections with complaints, witnesses and video. Hmmmmm, want to talk more about how wonderfully bipartisan Obama has been???
Report this comment
Chess
August 17th, 2009
11:57 am
At least this president welcomes open opinion on domestic issues. The GOP option is to change the rules and then ram it down your throat. And if you vote no – they tag you with a superficial label like unpatriotic and liberal. The GOP right was quiet for eight years and now all of a sudden the puppets speak. Keep listening to the conservative radio….dance puppets…dance
Report this comment
David Granger
August 17th, 2009
11:57 am
Cynthia, President Obama’s claimed attempt at bipartisanhip went out the window immediately when he named Rahm Emanuel his chief of staff. Emanuel makes Hillary Clinton look like Mother Theresa.
Report this comment
The Truth Hurts
August 17th, 2009
11:58 am
It is truely a shame the at this time our nations history that all we have is politicians and no patriots.
Report this comment
The Truth Hurts
August 17th, 2009
12:02 pm
Cynthia Tucker rah rahing for bipartinship…..WOW that is the pot calling the kettle…hmmmmmmmm ebony.
Report this comment
SARA
August 17th, 2009
12:08 pm
The word “Socialist” is used more now than ever and more and more by repubs!!! Noticing the way it is used and and always with racist tones and the mentality of the folks who is using it — is this a new “code word” for the repubs and other crazies replacing the dreaded “N” word? Everyone is talking about Socialism — have any of you lived in a Socialist society? I think not!!!! Is so, please share. All of you know that Healthcare needs to be reformed. I dare any of you to get sick and need a test or medication and your present insurance carrier says no to it. You will will wish for this reform!!! Just keep up the fuss — you know you are only doing it because your President’s name is OBAMA!!! Get over it!!!!
Report this comment
I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator :-) You Whine :-(
August 17th, 2009
12:15 pm
This is the same person that thinks Republicans are “ultra right wing religious extremists and war mongers environment haters, blah, blah, blah.”
And after 8 years of the most rancorous hectoring, insane babbling and mindless sneering in history, now the lib wants “bipartisanship.”
Phhhhbbbbttttttttttt.
Report this comment
ken
August 17th, 2009
12:18 pm
Harry and Nancy, say no more.
Report this comment
Wow
August 17th, 2009
12:20 pm
To Captain and David Granger, you’re accounts of Rahm Emanuel would hold some sway if it wasn’t for the fact that Republicans of all stripes have said Emanuel is actually a good negotiator who tries to make win-win compromises for both sides. Don’t ask me, you’re beloved WSJ says so.
Report this comment
Get Real
August 17th, 2009
12:22 pm
I saw forget bipartisanship. To the victor go the spoils. Republicans weren’t interested in bipartisanship for anything. Trying to pander to them will be the dems downfall. They will compromise and still won’t get republican votes.
Report this comment
dave
August 17th, 2009
12:24 pm
Barack Obama did end the partisan wrangling – he just does what he wants and ignores any other view point. So how’s that working out for you Mr. President??
Report this comment
Dr. R
August 17th, 2009
12:24 pm
Sara, please don’t lump all conservatives together. Some of us merely disagree with the president’s ideas. which doesn’t make us all racist lunkheads (though many are). I happen to admire Mr. Obama personally, and I do acknowledge that he was duly elected by the people; he is my president and I do not wish him ill. However, the concerns about a slide into socialism are real. That’s not to say Obama or the Democrats in power are socialists, but there is concern that an incremental increase in the power of the federal government will lead us down that path. Many of us prefer not to copy the nationalistic approach of Western Europe; our nation was founded by Pilgrims and pioneers who sought to escape such intrusion by the state and forge their own way. This country was founded and made great by rugged individualism, not by ceding our freedoms one by one to the government. And if my insurance company were to deny a test or procedure I needed, which is possible, I would find a way to pay for it out of my own pocket. I don’t look to government, or my neighbor, or you, or anyone else to make life fair for me and ease my troubles. That’s the difference between us.
Report this comment
stands for decibels
August 17th, 2009
1:05 pm
This is the same person that thinks Republicans are “ultra right wing religious extremists and war mongers environment haters, blah, blah, blah.”
Poor Whiner. He’s waiting all these years to get a chance to comment on Cynthia’s blog, and now that he’s here, he can’t think of anything to say.
Don’t you have any ACTUAL QUOTES from Ms. Tucker, Whiner? Cat got your ctrl-C/ctrl-V keys?
Report this comment
ck hall
August 17th, 2009
1:13 pm
Same old far left whacko stuff..Has never worked and will not this time!
Obamacare is being torpedoed by his own party! The waterred down version may make it palatable to many? We’ll see–anyway you look at what will be finally voted on, it is a defeat for the far left! Some in America still have some common sense. By the way, sure am happy you took your road show to DC–They might enjoy your politics more than the deep South does?
Report this comment
nowhereman
August 17th, 2009
1:13 pm
I don’t get it. The Dems hold both houses of congress and the whitehouse. So why is there a need for bi-partisanship? Perhaps Ms. Tucker should aim her comments at to those who are actually putting up the obstacles; certain members of the Democratic party.
Report this comment
Dr. R
August 17th, 2009
1:20 pm
Well, I’m tired of all of you. No one is ever willing to listen to the other side and admit that they just might have valid ideas. Not all conservative ideas are good, not all liberal ideas are bad and vice versa. Most of the advancements we’ve made as a nation have borrowed from the best of each. But now we demonize the other side when we disagree, calling each other socialists, racists or Nazis, the worst insults we can come up with. We no longer can disagree agreeably without making it personal. We gain nothing through this but support the wishes of those who want this country to fail. We are hopelessly divided by ideology, by race, by all manners of demographics. Instead of seeing ourselves as one nation with myriad viewpoints, we see our side as being the “real America” and those who disagree with us as being unworthy of our flag and freedoms. So a pox on all of you. I get tired of trying to introduce a little reason only to be shouted down by the whackjobs on both sides. Everyone should park their little “feelings” once in awhile and use their @#$%ing brains for once. And if you shut up now and again and listened to what people had to say, you might learn something. But then you’d claim to have a headache and find someone else to blame. So chew each other to pieces, see if I care.
Report this comment
Thyra
August 17th, 2009
1:44 pm
When I bought my Jetta Wagon in 2002, the salesman couldn’t understand why I wanted to save a few MPG’s by getting a standard transmission. I said, “We have an oil man in the White House, gas prices are going to go up.”
Report this comment
Thyra
August 17th, 2009
1:48 pm
Don’t blame me. I voted for Al Gore.
Report this comment
roland heath
August 17th, 2009
1:53 pm
would someone educate some of these people
that a fascist isn’t a socialist
they are two different critters
one is on the far right and the other
on the far left
Report this comment
nowhereman
August 17th, 2009
2:05 pm
Roland, please educate yourself. Google “nazi” and see what it stands for in German.
Report this comment
Road Scholar
August 17th, 2009
2:28 pm
The Repubs have selective memories…say Ronald Reagan 3 times and all is well!
Report this comment
Dr. R
August 17th, 2009
2:31 pm
Nazis ARE socialists. The acronym in German stood for the National Socialist Party. Hitler’s central government ran every part of everyone’s lives. There were no independent media, no free markets. It was a totalitarian regime. They were at odds with the communists more for ultimate control than over ideological differences, though there were some. Either way, you’re talking about different wings of the same monster. Both are the enemies of freedom and democracy and both should be avoided at all costs. But just because someone is left or right of center in our current debate doesn’t mean they should be lumped into either camp. That’s just wrong.
Report this comment
Dr. R
August 17th, 2009
2:45 pm
And communists ARE fascists, at least those in charge of the Soviet Union, China, North Korea, et al. Tell me Kim Jong-Il incorporates the ideals of Marx, Lenin and Engels. Hell no. He’s a two-bit, power mad dictator like all the other chunkheads who came before. Whatever these bozos call themselves, they all came pouring out of the same pit from hell with the same notion of total government control and subjugation of the citizenry. The name-calling is just silly, and what childish minds resort to when they have no reason to offer.
Report this comment
Wes
August 17th, 2009
2:48 pm
You’ve just mentioned part of why I won’t vote for a Republican again. Add in the transportation bill and the farm bill and you’ve got a complete argument as to why Republicans can’t be trusted to provide small government.
Report this comment
Jessica
August 17th, 2009
3:07 pm
I can’t speak for everyone, but I remember thinking that it was a bad idea and that it was unfair for one generation to dump more debt on future ones to pay for their drugs. I didn’t like it, but I didn’t think it was really a big deal at the time. This new healthcare plan, by contrast, will be more expensive and will probably cost families like mine a lot more than a few extra tax dollars. I think you are seeing more concern because people believe it will affect them directly this time.
I consider myself conservative, and I DO NOT think W was a real conservative. He talked like a Republican, but his programs and policies were too expensive and too intrusive.
Report this comment
JimF
August 17th, 2009
3:38 pm
As I recall, Dems made a weak (as usual) protest that the prescription plan was unfunded. The press ignored their concerns and all the hubub was about insurance companies getting all the money (which they did).
Report this comment
George W Bush
August 17th, 2009
3:42 pm
If President Bush said it was a good idea then it WAS A GOOD IDEA!
Report this comment
Jim morrison
August 17th, 2009
4:03 pm
Never call Rebs racist when your own F Socialist Racist President along with Robert KKK Byrd is a Dem and are racists. The current associations of this president, Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, Rev Wright, Ayers, and the like. It was the Republican vote that allowed the 1964 Civil Rights Act to be passed, not the Racists Dems in office. So please, do not begin to lecture us on racists Republicans as there are good and bad from both sides.
Do not try to spin the Socialist agenda here which is clearly from the DEM side of the isle. These are the same morons who want you to take their new health care but not use it for their own! Sound weird?
Enough Said!
Report this comment
Pennsylvanian
August 17th, 2009
4:14 pm
If the dems had run a moderate like Joe Lieberman, I would have voted dem. But they ran a moonbat like Al Gore, then a pompous jerk like Kerry. Didn’t like GWB, but you gave me no choice.
Report this comment
Curious Observer
August 17th, 2009
4:14 pm
It should have been called the Assured Pharmaceutical Company Profitability Act. It hog-tied the federal government by exempting Big Pharma from any controls over outrageous prescription drug pricing. Never mind that these companies continue to sell the same drugs overseas and in Canada at half the price that Americans and the federal government have to pay.
Report this comment
roland heath
August 17th, 2009
6:07 pm
many moons ago
i taught u.s. history and gov’t
believe me there is a difference
Report this comment
Peppa Sensei
August 17th, 2009
6:17 pm
Ms Tucker, I normally disagree with 100% of what you write in your rantings column. This article is no different. I would like to suggest that you return to high school and take some grammar refresher courses; particularly in the area of comma usage.
Report this comment
scott
August 17th, 2009
7:25 pm
dear poor and working class white americans continue to vote republican and see where that get you…republicans only care about the rich and big business..as a rich wealthy white male that use to be a big time executive for big insurance i,m here to tell you big insurance and REPUBLICANS WILL SCREW YOU OVER AND OVER AGAIN!!
Report this comment
TDone
August 17th, 2009
7:40 pm
I don’t understand the argument. If you are saying that Bush did a bad thing, what Obama is doing is even worse. Therefore Obama must equal Bush on Steriods.
Report this comment
Dalton
August 17th, 2009
7:50 pm
Medicare helps old folks: It’d be best if politicians don’t try to mess with their health coverage if they want to get re-elected.
Report this comment
Michael H. Smith
August 17th, 2009
8:52 pm
Where was all the outrage over
so-calledrightly-called socialism when George W. Bush and Republicans pushed through the Medicare precription drug plan, another costly entitlement?Can’t rightly say where all the outrage was over Bush’s socialist Medicare prescription drug plan but it sure felt lonely publically calling on Georgia’s Senators to vote against it, as I recall the time.
However, it is good to see all the absence of rightly due outrage return in full voice after recovering from that nasty bout of Bush-itis. Otherwise, I’d have to file an abandonment complaint against A.W.O.L. conservatives.
Report this comment
Michael H. Smith
August 17th, 2009
9:08 pm
Internal Memo Confirms Big Giveaways In White House Deal With Big Pharma
A memo obtained by the Huffington Post confirms that the White House and the pharmaceutical lobby secretly agreed to precisely the sort of wide-ranging deal that both parties have been denying over the past week.
The memo, which according to a knowledgeable health care lobbyist was prepared by a person directly involved in the negotiations, lists exactly what the White House gave up, and what it got in return.
It says the White House agreed to oppose any congressional efforts to use the government’s leverage to bargain for lower drug prices or import drugs from Canada — and also agreed not to pursue Medicare rebates or shift some drugs from Medicare Part B to Medicare Part D, which would cost Big Pharma billions in reduced reimbursements.
In exchange, the Pharmaceutical Researchers and Manufacturers Association (PhRMA) agreed to cut $80 billion in projected costs to taxpayers and senior citizens over ten years. Or, as the memo says: “Commitment of up to $80 billion, but not more than $80 billion.”
Excerpt taken from the Huffington Post
Report this comment
mike
August 18th, 2009
7:05 am
scott –
That is a fine recitation of liberal talking points. Keep on bleating!
Report this comment
What They Are Saying: 08.18.09 | AnnotatedOpinions.com
August 18th, 2009
7:34 am
[...] Where was the outrage over Medicare prescription bill? [Atlanta Journal-Constitution] [...]
Report this comment
Tea
August 18th, 2009
8:01 am
Unfortunately, it looks like we’ll end up giving the farm away to Big Pharma and Big Insurance when/if “reform” is passed. I heard on the radio this morning, the UK spend between 100 and 200 billion for they’re entire national insurance system (single payer). America spends more than 10 times that much just on Medicare and Medicaid, which is only a fraction of total health care spending. We’re just spending too much on healthcare!!!
Report this comment
bob
August 18th, 2009
8:06 am
Tea, Head on over ! Everything is better in Europe.
Report this comment
bob
August 18th, 2009
8:08 am
The best thing to do would be to roll back Bush’s plan, he was no conservative and dems have the votes to cancel the plan, will they do it. ?
Report this comment
Peadawg
August 18th, 2009
8:12 am
“But they ran a moonbat like Al Gore, then a pompous jerk like Kerry. Didn’t like GWB, but you gave me no choice.”
Exactly. The lesser of 2 evils.
Report this comment
Peadawg
August 18th, 2009
8:19 am
Also, there’s a difference between senior citizens who are retired and have contributed to society their entire life, and providing health care for illegals and people who have 6 kids w/ 6 different babys daddys and don’t plan on getting a job anytime soon.
Report this comment
SouthernGal
August 18th, 2009
8:22 am
This former Repub is against ALL entitlements.
Report this comment
Peadawg
August 18th, 2009
8:32 am
Medicaid is what needs reforming. I worked as a pharmacy tech for 3 years. I’ve seen first hand how Medicaid is a flawed system right now. People come in driving a Escalade but paying 50 cents for a prescription. Women bragging about getting their nails done for $25, but complaining that they don’t have 50 cents for a prescription.
Report this comment
Jim O'Sullivan
August 18th, 2009
8:39 am
Dear Ms. Tucker:
Democrats supported Bush on this. Most Republicans opposed, but knew it was pointless to try to stop it. You pick you fights in politics. BTW, Bush was not as conservative as the media portrayed him. Not by a longshot.
Report this comment
Donovan
August 18th, 2009
8:41 am
Unbelieveable! President Bush fends off a blistering assault from the Democrat Party for 8 years, but still has the compassion to appease them by helping the elder generation with a drug assistance plan. Even though the Dems never took the initiative to help the elderly other than cheap talk during thier years of power, now they use his perscription legislation as a club against the Republican Party. The only thing wrong with President Bush’s initiative was the timing of the legislation and the money involved. However, the comparison and projected amount of money is another fabricated lie of the liberals. They are trying to sell socialized medicine on America and are failing miserably at it. What you are seeing is a lost campaign being sold by left wing kooks like Tucker and Pelosi. Those who agree with the likes of Tucker are mere fools following fools. The Democrat Party in this country has become a rabble of left wing whack jobs and uninformed day dreamers who think that entitlements are an American priveledge. Unfortunately, President Bush fell for the idea of a good cause. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. One thing is for sure…Democrats will turn everything good into bad.
Report this comment
Howard
August 18th, 2009
8:59 am
YOU ARE SO RIGHT AND THE FAR RIGHT IS SO WRONG…WITH A CAPITAL “W”..AS IN GEORGE W. BUSH…I AM SO TIRED OF REPUBLICANS USING SCARE TACTICS TO FRIGHTEN AMERICANS WHETHER IT BE TO FIGHT AN UNNECESSARY WAR OR FIGHT HEALTH CARE FOR AMERICANS. IN EITHER CASE THEY WOULD RATHER SEE AMERICANS DIE THAT SIMPLY TELL THE TRUTH….DEMOCRATS, LED BY PRESIDENT OBAMA NEED TO DO THE RIGHT THING ON HEALTH CARE AND NOT THE FAR RIGHT THING…COLLABORATION, YES, BUT COMPROMISE ON PRINCIPLE, NEVER.
Report this comment
Donovan
August 18th, 2009
9:38 am
I have better things to do than day dream my hours away writing what-ifs and dusting off the pixie dust that your unaccomplished president has thrown around on you people. Face it. You people are following a laughing stock. That’s all you have is a ideology in practice that is being rejected once again by an awakened America. I’m off to do something productive in life. See ya.
Report this comment
lovelyliz
August 18th, 2009
9:44 am
Ms Tucker you’ve forgotten the GOP, neo-conservative mantra:
social welfare – BAD
corporate welfare – GOOD
In this case it really is that simple and the reason they have lost credibility when it comes to spending issues.
Report this comment
Turd Ferguson
August 18th, 2009
9:52 am
Howard
August 18th, 2009
8:59 am
I guess you guys/gals are just stupid enough to believe said scare tactics…lol.
Report this comment
Charlton Allen
August 18th, 2009
10:00 am
The reason there was no out cry is that it benefitted big business at the expense of the taxpayer. The entire W. legacy is one of reverse Robin Hood. Rob from the middle class and give to the rich Friends of Bush. Bush was a conserative. He relied on a base aristocracy, pulled in the religous right with his platitudes, and tried to structure the presidency as a kingship. He was a true “old line” conserative. Why should the Republicans yell about Medicare part D when their main supporters were benefitting? Their hands were in the cookie jar, so they saw nothing wrong with it.
Report this comment
Newton
August 18th, 2009
10:21 am
What is your point? Two wrongs still don’t make a right.
Report this comment
Bruce
August 18th, 2009
11:21 am
TEA wrote: “I heard on the radio this morning, the UK spend between 100 and 200 billion for they’re entire national insurance system (single payer). America spends more than 10 times that much just on Medicare and Medicaid, which is only a fraction of total health care spending. We’re just spending too much on healthcare!!!”
Would it be that we have a good many MORE people here in the USA than they do in UK?
Report this comment
ER Barker
August 18th, 2009
11:24 am
Cynthia hon, if it is your end of life counseling we are talking, or canceling. I am all for it sweetie.
Report this comment
Jimmy62
August 18th, 2009
11:44 am
There was TONS of outrage from the right, myself included. I don’t listen to Rush, but I know radio hosts like Neal Boortz were mightily ticked off, and I consider it Bush’s biggest betrayal of what he was supposed to be. Well biggest until the bailouts began last year.
Unfortunately the best you guys came up with was Kerry, and Bush was still better than that. Don’t blame me because your guy was still more pathetic than Bush.
Report this comment
JB
August 18th, 2009
1:06 pm
Yeah Peadawg, I bet NO senior citizen has ever had a baby out of wedlock or was an illegal immigrant during their working years. They are pure, so they deserve every last drop out of Medicare that us people with JOBS pay for. And the younger generation deserves for Medicare to go bankrupt on them because they are SO irresponsible despite the Boomers having created this mess in the first place with their outdated culture wars, poor parenting, and the election of that simpleton Ronald Reagan (and thus the decline of the educational system, which is on full display at the town halls).
Really great logic.
Report this comment
Jim163
August 18th, 2009
1:15 pm
There was outrage. There was also outrage when FDR created that other program that is going to sink the budget, Social Security. The same one the Supreme Court was going to find unconstitutional until he threated to pack the Court!
Report this comment
Ray
August 18th, 2009
1:40 pm
Cynthia,
I’ll answer your question with a question. You express outrage at racism by white people directed at black people. Have you ever expressed outrage at racism directed at whites by black people.
Report this comment
Justin
August 18th, 2009
3:49 pm
I think the government really just needs to step off the issue entirely.
We were built as a Republic with Rule by Law, not to have majority groups(democracy) or plutocratic business elites tell us what to do.
Especially when it comes to end of life plans.
I don’t agree with playing God and extending people’s lives who are braindead or in deep suffering who should have allowed nature to take course long ago, unless they are physically there to tell us they want to go on.
To have a binding contract that extends life past the point where the individual can cancel the contract is simply illogical and irrational.
Euthanasia is a sick and incorrect term for saying “This person is by all means dead, and we should allow the natural order of things to resume as opposed to hooking them to machines to potentially live out a nightmare in their mind for the remaining duration of existence in their Human Shell”.
In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with that statement.
As society “progresses”, find our population fixating on new issues that completely seem to ignore the natural cycles of life and death.
Report this comment
Justin
August 18th, 2009
3:53 pm
By the way, I would appreciate some sort of intelligible reply to said argument above. In reflection of this page, I quickly realize I am the only one who has stepped outside the situation, stopped looking Left and Right, and sees the greater picture, I see a 3 Dimensional image of the issue as well as how this issue has corrupted cross time.
Stop arguing about this specifics and this particularly issue, and get to the point.
The point is, this is a lesson on life and death for humankind, and it is time we evolve and step up to the plate. What would Carl Sagan, MLK, or Gandhi say? Or rather, what wouldn’t they talk about.
My point is made
Report this comment
Marc
August 18th, 2009
5:26 pm
I have a 2005 hummer H2 SUT, a 1997 Chevrolet Silverado 1/2 ton regular cab shortbox 4×4, a 1998 Chevrolet Tahoe 2dr 4×4 & a 1991 Buick Reatta. The 97 Silverado gets 16-18mpg, the Tahoe 14-17, Reatta 29-31 and the Hummer after my taking all the junk off the outside and doing some modifications to the air intake and exhaust gets 14-17mpg. In other words, the Hummer gets as good gas mileage as does my other two trucks. Nobody has ever asked me what gas mileage my trucks get, but I cannot get into and back out of a gas station without someone asking about the Hummer gas mileage. When I told a Ford Excursion owner what my Hummer got for mileage he laughed and said ” I only wish my Excursion got that kind of mileage, I get around 10-12mpg”. I only use the Hummer when we are all going somewhere so I always have a load of four people on board. I don’t feel so bad hauling four people around getting an avarage of 15mpg. Its like one person driving a vehicle by themselves and getting 60mpg!!
Report this comment
Marc
August 18th, 2009
5:34 pm
And to Concerned consumer who said:
“I have never understood who EVER buys a Hummer? Big car, Little …….is what I think” Ask my partner about that one, I am quite sure she would disagree with you!! By the way, I own 16 vehicles, worked hard to get ever one of them. I commonly drive a almost 20 year old collector Buick Reatta that gets an average of 30+ mpg. I use the Hummer when we all go somewhere. At 15mpg hauling 4 people I am using less resources to move four people than the guy driving by himself getting 25mpg. And I can haul pretty much anything within reason behind me. I doubt your “clean diesel Jetta, great gas mileage and peppy” vehicle will pull much more than its shadow without that peppy mileage going out the window!
Report this comment
I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator :-) You Whine :-(
August 18th, 2009
6:11 pm
And if that don’t work maybe we could say that he is retarded and get another twenty years hearings started?
You know, give that cop’s family a good vivid memory of the injustice that was meted out to him.
Report this comment
san francisco perspective
August 18th, 2009
9:18 pm
if original testimony has been recanted, then surely a new trial by a jury is in order with the requirement that the prosecution prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. shifting the burden to davis to clearly establish his innocence does not protect the justice system from error or solidify its “integrity.”
Report this comment
Charles Jackson
August 18th, 2009
9:36 pm
Troy Davis gets his day in court. Again.
Troy Davis was convicted 20 years ago of killing a Savannah police officer.
Troy Davis has had multiple court hearings.
Troy Davis has had three stays of execution.
Troy Davis’ Death Penalty Circus continues ad nauseam.
Report this comment
Jay "Numbnuts" Bookwoman
August 18th, 2009
10:12 pm
Are you serious Ray? Your typical Black person never displays racism towards Whitey… Nuh UHHH! Never EVER! Watcha Talkin bout Willis?
Report this comment
And We Were Supposed To Be Afraid of Sotomayor??? « Steve Guggenheimer
August 18th, 2009
10:28 pm
[...] to warrant at least another look at any case, even more so for a capital murder case. Thankfully, that is going to happen, but no thanks to Scalia and [...]
Report this comment
thomas chisolm
August 18th, 2009
11:13 pm
read page 425 of health bill and get back to us.
Report this comment
Constructive Feedback
August 19th, 2009
3:56 am
Ms Tucker – Please research the name “Michael Cooper”. Mr Cooper is the man that TROY DAVIS was convicted of shooting that same night, hours before HE KILLED Officer MacPhail.
I notice that one can detect the bias of a source by their inclination to totally depend upon the recantation of the eye-witness testimony at the crime scene where Troy Davis shot MacPhail or if the person is willing to expand the crime scene and make note of the continuity of violent behavior by Troy Davis.
The same gun which shot Michael Cooper outside of the party is the same gun which killed the fallen officer.
Why don’t you also seek to overturn Davis’ conviction for shooting Michael Cooper IF you are so strong in your belief that he is an innocent man?
Report this comment
DeborahinAthens
August 19th, 2009
7:13 am
As a former Republican that gave up on the party eight years ago, I am disheartened to see how easily the Democrats are caving. I voted for Obama because I wanted radical healthcare reform with a SINGLE PAYER OPTION. I have an excellent job with good insurance, but if and when I retire, we will not be able to get insurance because my husband has a pre-existing condition. Everyone I know that has lived in Great Britain, France or Cananda have loved their health care system. The last numbers I saw show that Great Britain ranks 18th in healthcare among industrialized nations. The US is 37th. Our representatives are buckling under the screams and rants of idiots that don’t know, and don’t want to know the facts. By the way, the other major reasons I voted for Obama is that I thought he would close Guantanamo and end the war. It is insane that the United State sanctions holding anyone as a prisoner without charging them with a crime and having a trial to decide guilt or innocence. I also want the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan over and done with. They are rat holes down which we are pouring billions that will not serve our interests. That money can be used to fund our deficit. The Dems have caved on these promises also. I am sick that I can no longer trust any representative to do what they promised. I am very disappointed in President Obama. I thought he would be different.
Report this comment
norman ravitch
August 19th, 2009
7:33 am
The vast rightwing conspiracy which first showed its head during the Clinton years actually began during the New Deal. It reveals itself when the material interests of a certain ruling group is threatened; then they embark on a scheme to frighten the yahoos in our society, people whose intelligence never rises above vitriol. H.L. Mencken had their number. Now they have re-emerged to challenge O’Bama. The president does threaten their interests: he is a black man who, against all tradition and common sense, was elected president of this white nation. He must be repudiated; the rightwingers are doing a good job of repudiating him, as is O’Bama himself. Had the economy not tanked and had the GOP not picked senile John McCain to run for president with an even more senile Sarah Palin, O’Bama would still be a Senator.
Report this comment
Mr. Tee
August 19th, 2009
7:33 am
Why not tell the whole story Ms. Tucker? Let me guess, Troy Davis is black. If he were white you would never bring this up.
Report this comment
mike
August 19th, 2009
7:34 am
Typical Tucker hypocrisy.
Just to be clear: liberals protesting policies they don’t approve of is admirable, conservatives doing the exact same thing is a “right-wing conspiracy”.
It is amusing that Tucker is such a hypocrite that she can talk about “conspiracies”, yet label those who dare to disagree with her intrinsically correct views as “paranoid”. What a hypocrite.
Report this comment
mike
August 19th, 2009
7:36 am
norman ravitch –
I don’t know which is more embarrassing, your baseless claims of racism or your inability to spell the name of the President of the United States.
Report this comment
M Sharp
August 19th, 2009
7:38 am
It’s not republicans who are PAYING people to show up and protest. It’s not republicans PAYING to have people bused in and providing them with professionally painted signs. NO, that’s the CONSIPIRACY of SEIU and AARP and other LIBERAL groups. Since when do a few radio hosts and commentators urging people to express their views to their elected officials constitute a “right-wing” conspiracy. There was no conspiracy then and there’s certainly not one now. Why is it that when the agenda of the left gets questioned, the left attack the questioners? There is no vitriol like that of you people who support this president and this socialist agenda and that is proved by the personal attacks you make to defend yourself. You have shown yourselves for the hypocrites you are.
Report this comment
Turd Ferguson
August 19th, 2009
7:41 am
Yet again Tucker is incorrect and presents baseless arguments.
Report this comment
I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator :-) You Whine :-(
August 19th, 2009
7:42 am
I’m baaaaaccckkk.
A simple minded column for simple minded people, typical Queen Pinko.
More citizens identify themselves as political conservatives than as political liberals in every state in the U.S., according to results of a Gallup Poll announced yesterday.
There’s your conspiracy, right there^^.
If I’m wrong and Tuck is right, perhaps somebody can explain why Obozo kampaigned as a Conservative?
Tax cuts?
More troops in Afghanistan?
These are policy planks of the democrat party?
And why, pray tell, did Sotomayor parrot Clarence Thomas at here Senate Confirmation hearing?
Is she a vast white winger?
Munch on your comfort food, dullards, it’s all ya got.
Report this comment
Turd Ferguson
August 19th, 2009
7:43 am
Agreed Sharp…was watching local news and they actually had footage of ACORN groupies being bussed in to some town hall meeting.
Tucker and her ilk are shameless and arrogant.
Report this comment
highly amused
August 19th, 2009
7:45 am
Justice? Another Hearing? I’ll be honest, I don’t know all the details but any new hearing should start with purgery charges against the witnesses. If they falsely testified to convict a man innocent of the charge; they should go to jail. If they are changing their testimony because of some other agenda; they should go to jail. There is absoluteley no excuse for changing any sworn testimony. These witnesses need to be held accountable for what they have done to either Davis or the MacPhail family.
Report this comment
Steven Adams
August 19th, 2009
7:47 am
You misspelled Pittsburgh.
Report this comment
mike
August 19th, 2009
7:52 am
You ever notice that none of the health care reform’s supporters never make a case for their policy? Instead they just tell us that they hate conservatives. We knew that you felt that way already folks. How about making the case for the policy that you support instead of just trying to demonize its opponents?
Report this comment
Peadawg
August 19th, 2009
7:52 am
Holy crap!!! Me and Cynthia agree on something! Usually I couldn’t disagree w/ you more…but I think Mr. Davis is innocent.
Report this comment
What They Are Saying: 08.19.09 | AnnotatedOpinions.com
August 19th, 2009
8:10 am
[...] The return of the vast rightwing conspiracy [Atlanta Journal-Constitution] [...]
Report this comment
Uncle Jake
August 19th, 2009
8:19 am
Perhaps a few of us have been around long enough to know that when the govt gets involved with most any program, said program turns to shiat.
We support the free enterprise system as its served us seniors well for many years and now that we reach our twilight years the govt wants to screw us over? I dont think so Mister. We built this Country and we are not about to sit around and allow the likes of obama, pelosi, reid, frank ruin it for us and the rest of you.
Yes…we may not know much but we KNOW the govt screws up most anything it touches. All these giveaway and freebies. Nothing is free and thats my hard earned money, as well as yours, going to support a group of freeloaders.
With regard to tucker…she has been out of touch for years.
Report this comment
Atlanta_Tiger_Fan
August 19th, 2009
8:28 am
Great comment CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK! Ms. Tucker is just another racist and doesn’t want to admit that a one of her “brothers” killed that poor cop.
Report this comment
Davo
August 19th, 2009
8:32 am
“But it wouldn’t take much for one of these angry gunslingers to do some real damage at a public gathering.”
Which is secretly what you want, isn’t it Tucker? A little mayham from a civil war reenactor would really seal the deal on gun control, health control, mind control etc. That’s why you would rather sling mud and demonize than ’seek bi-partisanship’ (remember that column? Who wrote that?) I guess if you goad the public long enough you will get what you ask for.
Report this comment
Pennsylvanian
August 19th, 2009
8:38 am
I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator
You Whine 
@ 7:42
norman ravitch reports the president is Irish. That is O’bozo to you.
Report this comment
Pennsylvanian
August 19th, 2009
8:42 am
Cynthia –
Please remind us about how President O’bama (thank you, norman) won the election, and has a mandate for change. How he is empowered to fix the climate, and health care. And close Gitmo this year. And no new taxes on the middle class. Please? I need a laugh.
Report this comment
cliff zeider
August 19th, 2009
8:54 am
Hey Cynthia, Did you catch your pal, the lovely Shelia Jackson Lee making a damn fool out of her self. She was at a town hall meeting and answering the phone during questions. cz
Report this comment
Joey
August 19th, 2009
8:55 am
The goal of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy is to protect the People of the US and our US Constitution from the actions of the Less Vast Left Wing Conspiracy has never stopped.
It never will.
Report this comment
Michael W. Fender
August 19th, 2009
8:58 am
This story is a great example of type of trash that the AJC allows Cynthia Tucker to print, and is also the reason I haven’t subscribed to the paper for years. I only ran across this story while surfing the net, its free! Let’s be real here, if Troy Davis was a white man, ole Cynthia’s column would probably be on why countries should have no borders and illegal immigrants should be able to come and go as they please.
Report this comment
lovelyliz
August 19th, 2009
9:00 am
I told you so! I told you so! I knew I smelled the stench of Richard Mellon Scaife. I guess his tawdry second divorce went better than was originally thought (adultery, assault, no prenup) if he still has his family $$$ to throw around his pet causes.
Report this comment
lovelyliz
August 19th, 2009
9:01 am
Joey
Where were you guys from 2000-2008??????????????????
Report this comment
mike
August 19th, 2009
9:02 am
lovelyliz –
Hmm. Another liberal judging the morality of others. Such hypocrisy.
Report this comment
Goldie
August 19th, 2009
9:08 am
The goal of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy is to rule America by whatever means necessary — totalitarianism or theocracy — in order enable the Big Corporations to make our laws and to keep Americans trembling with fear…
Report this comment
Jeff
August 19th, 2009
9:12 am
Of course it’s up to the people of the Massachussets 4th congressional district, but after seeing Barney Frank in action last night at a Dartmouth townhall meeting, if I were one of his constituents – regardless of party affiliation – I certainly wouldn’t vote to return him to office. He epitomizes congressional arrogance. It’s time for him & those of his political ilk to go.
Report this comment
Cindy
August 19th, 2009
9:20 am
Mike’s room temperature IQ and associated Rush Limbaugh talking points are pretty typical are they not?
Report this comment
Jay "Numbnuts" Bookwoman
August 19th, 2009
9:21 am
Blame it on the “machine” Tucker. In a nut shell folks, Sinthia is telling us that Americans aren’t smart enough to know what’s right and it’s all the talk show hosts fault for spreading lies. Get with the program SISTA!
Report this comment
Cindy
August 19th, 2009
9:22 am
What is a “admirable conservative” Mike? I’ve never seen one of those. Unless being a hateful, bigoted, scared shi%less, angry at the world cretin is what you are talking about.
Report this comment
Your morning jolt: Republicans undecided on whether co-ops are evil | Political Insider
August 19th, 2009
9:24 am
[...] Cynthia Tucker on the return of the vast rightwing conspiracy. [...]
Report this comment
Jay "Numbnuts" Bookwoman
August 19th, 2009
9:25 am
ilk – I really hate that word. It’s completely overused in these political discussions.
Report this comment
Jay "Numbnuts" Bookwoman
August 19th, 2009
9:28 am
Look in the mirror “Cindy” Lou Whoo.
Report this comment
Bob
August 19th, 2009
9:29 am
Pass health care reform with a public option then pass immigration reform, and vast right wingnut crowd is dead in the water forever. They understand this and therefore their behavior. I am waiting for one of them to draw his gun at one of these meetings. You know it’s coming, and when the Secret Service blows him away these fools will use that as a rallying cry. No more ignorant group has ever been collectively assembled as these right wing ignoramuses. But guess what? They live by the sword and they will die by it. Good riddance to right wing rubbish.
Report this comment
norman ravitch
August 19th, 2009
9:29 am
I always try to refer to our president as O’Bama because if I can pretend he is Irish I can curb my dismay at who he really is.
Report this comment
Cindy
August 19th, 2009
9:35 am
Jay “Numbnuts” Bookwoman
August 19th, 2009
9:28 am
Look in the mirror “Cindy” Lou Whoo
If I do that I will see you looking back at me and the thought of that is way too horrible to contemplate.
Report this comment
Sam S.
August 19th, 2009
9:37 am
lovelyliz
August 19th, 2009
9:01 am
Joey
Where were you guys from 2000-2008??????????????????
They obviously spent them with their heads up their azzez lovelyliz.
Report this comment
Jay "Numbnuts" Bookwoman
August 19th, 2009
9:41 am
Hey – I resemble that remark!!!
Report this comment
Sam S.
August 19th, 2009
9:44 am
Where were you morons when Bush did the medicare prescription bill?
Report this comment
Jay "Numbnuts" Bookwoman
August 19th, 2009
9:58 am
Where were you Sam S?
Report this comment
Warren Bonesteel
August 19th, 2009
10:07 am
Hmm. Cynthia’s premises are that anything to the political right of Pelosi, Reid and Obama is the result of a “conspiracy,” that health care “reform” is good and that the science behind AGW (”climate change”) is settled. (Hint: Their ‘puter models can’t even ‘predict’ well-known historical weather patterns and cycles, let alone predict future events and cycles. GIGO. Hint #2: If the theory doesn’t match reality and isn’t predictive, the theory’s no good. Hint *3: The IPCC and AlGore overlooked that big yellow thingy in the sky, basically implying that the sun has no effect upon Earth’s climate. So, AlGore got a Nobel Peace prize for ignoring the sun…)
The rest of the logical fallacies in her article are derived from her original false premises. (False premises are a wee bit divorced from factual evidence and proof and even from reality.)
While using logic like that…How the hell did she get a Pulitzer?
Report this comment
Ed
August 19th, 2009
10:28 am
It’s amazing how the few white bloggers here scream ” She only b/c he’s black.” Yet, these same white bloggers , I’m sure” said nothing about the white men (in Paris Texas ) that killed black men by dragging them behind their cars/trucks. Regardless of how you feel about justice , I KNOW for a fact it varies pending upon race, the amount you have and gender.
Report this comment
Algonquin J. Calhoun
August 19th, 2009
10:28 am
Cynthia, I agree with you. I have no problem seeing murderers executed but I do have a problem with innocent people being executed. Make doubly sure you got the right guy BEFORE YOU PUT HIM ON THE GURNEY OF DEATH!!! You know Cynthia, it’s amazing how all the white trash reads your writings but they all hate the AJC because of what you write. My diagnosis-cognitive dissonance. Keep writing and they’ll keep reading, moving their lips as they do.
Report this comment
Pat Phelps
August 19th, 2009
10:36 am
Cynthia, your an idiot. When all else fails lets stur the pot once again by claiming racism. People that have legitimate problems with government health care express there views. Do you even know these people? Have you talked to them? On what do you base your comments of racism? Simple because we disagree doesn’t make me a racist. I didn’t vote for Obama because he was black, but because I don’t want to live in a socialist country. I have voted in the past for Dylan Glenn and Herman Cain, two black men, because I agree with their views. Why don’t you have an intelligent conversation about why we don’t like this health care bill instead of resorting to name calling.
Report this comment
Jessica
August 19th, 2009
10:37 am
The thing is, this so-called reform will be harmful to most Americans, including the people who are working so hard to get it passed. We can’t afford it, and we won’t be pleased with it once it’s in place. I hope the “right-wing conspiracy” can derail this socialist nightmare, but I know reform will probably happen. If you want to know how government healthcare will work out, take a look at the countries that already have it.
In a few years, when you have to wait for six hours in a doctor’s office for routine care, remember that this is what you wanted.
When your doctor is more concerned about following government policy than about your needs and getting a prescription filled is as frustrating as waiting in line at the post office or DMV, remember how glad you are to have Washington running the system.
When your sick kid can’t get the treatment you want for him because there is a cheaper option (never mind that you already tried it and it didn’t work), remember to tell the kid how happy you are to have Obamacare.
When your 93-year-old grandma can’t get a pacemaker because some bureaucrat doesn’t think it’s cost-effective to keep her alive for a few more years, remember that YOU helped push this through.
When you have to wait three years to get the knee surgery you need, remember to thank your lawmakers for “fixing” the system. Your senator, by the way, will NOT be waiting three years for surgery — he will be flying to another country to get it done at a clinic that caters to rich Americans.
Report this comment
Robby
August 19th, 2009
10:41 am
The idea that a handful (if that) of loud, gun-toting knuckleheads can shout down Ms. Tucker and the vast left-leaning media empire is downright laughable. So how many “criticizing the critics” columns must we endure before someone as bright and eloquent as Ms. Tucker takes a stab at telling us specifically why they feel that President Obama’s healthcare plan is the answer. And not just because he says it is, please.
Report this comment
Peter
August 19th, 2009
10:42 am
Here we are in the great state of Georgia where EDUCTION, is not a Big Priority !
Read the Blog, it will sum up that Point !
Report this comment
Class of '98
August 19th, 2009
10:52 am
Be honest, Cynthia… how frustrated were you that the guy carrying the machine gun at the townhall meeting was black?
YOU COULDN’T ACCUSE HIM OF RACISM!!!!! Because, after all, that’s the ONLY reason someone would disagree with messiah Obama, right?
Report this comment
Michael(NorthGA)
August 19th, 2009
10:59 am
You folks ever wonder if Cynthia and Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee’s butt’s glow bright red when their ready to mate? Especially, you left-wing pukes, Bob and Cindy!
Report this comment
Pompano
August 19th, 2009
11:02 am
Of course Cynthia Tucker/McKinney can’t form a cohesive explanation as to why the protestors are wrong – just resorts to the same lame Democrap luney-tunes strategy of name calling and faux racism.
It would be nice if the AJC employed a writer intelligent enough to actually comment on National matters instead of the tired old crap we’ve gotten from this woman for years. No wonder they can’t sell newspapers anymore!
Report this comment
Joey
August 19th, 2009
11:06 am
lovely liz;
The Right Wing would not view me as Right Wing, but I observed the VRWC fighting against Republicans, Democrats and sometimes both (and I helped on some issues) about:
Citizenship for Illegal Residents;
Increasing the size of the Government;
Supreme Court Nominations;
Unwise and un-necessary spending;
Selling Sea Ports to Foreign Governments;
Preventing Iran and N. Korea from developing Nuclear weapons; etc.
I suspect you could add a few more examples. Some of them might even be honest examples.
Report this comment
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
August 19th, 2009
11:10 am
How said that author Tucker celebrates equally in the protestations of a man, known to have shot one, and linked to the killing of another by ballistic evidence, and the denigration of true American heroes President Bush and Vice President Cheney.
Even sadder that the AJC willingly provides a pulpit for her drivel. Perhaps, the reason that the AJC is going out of business – out of touch with morality, common sense, and the majority of Atlantans.
Report this comment
proud old guy
August 19th, 2009
11:19 am
Fascinating commentary by the unabashed liberal.
I find it interesting that it is OK for the dems to leverage Acorn, but it is a conspiracy for ordinary people to ask legitimate questions of their congressman. The problem with Cynthia and her ilk is that they are really afraid of the normal process of governance as defined in that inconvenient document called the constitution. If you think about it, most of the great liberal accomplishments are the result of activity through the courts. Much of the great FDR’s social program was ruled unconsitutional after the court returned to form. Remember, he packed the court to make sure that things would not get stopped. When dems have to deal with the messy process of convincing people that their ideas are good, they resort to exactly what we see here.
Unlike some people who have commented on this blog, there are a whole lot of people who have seen how poorly Obamacare works in places like Canada and England. They don’t want it.
So, they show up in places like town hall meetings with their congress person and they ask questions. They express their opinion.
It’s not a conspiracy, Cynthia dear, it’s a representative democracy and people are telling their representatives what they think.
In fact, if you think about it, Obama has done a great job of uniting the country. Millions of people are united in their opposition to his plan!
Report this comment
Algonquin J. Calhoun
August 19th, 2009
11:19 am
You meant zeroes, didn’t you?
Report this comment
ctucker
August 19th, 2009
11:23 am
Pat, Where in the world did I say anything about race or racism in that column?
Report this comment
Chris Salzmann
August 19th, 2009
11:24 am
mike August 19th, 2009 7:52 am SAID: You ever notice that none of the health care reform’s supporters never make a case for their policy? Instead they just tell us that they hate conservatives. We knew that you felt that way already folks. How about making the case for the policy that you support instead of just trying to demonize its opponents?
CHRIS SAYS: Make a case for the policy we support? Like Health Care Reform? Here’s our case: Read the f*cking bill. Also, go to some truly NON-Partisan websites such as http://www.politifact.co or http://www.factcheck.org to filter out the lies being spread by conservative idiots. You know, like those lies about “Death Panels” spread and backed by conservatives, which have no basis in fact.
While you’re at it, name me one corporation tied to health care, insurance or pharma that is in favor or funding groups SUPPORTING reform? I can name you countless of the same corporate interests that are funding the opposition to reform. Which pretty much confirms the fact that most conservatives cannot think for themselves and are mindless tools to corporate special interests. You know, like those folks holding up signs saying “KEEP GOVT. OUT OF MY MEDICARE!”.
Here’s a fact: You folks in the opposition have the likes of Glenn Beck supporting you, we have FACTS. Enough said.
Report this comment
ncgreybr
August 19th, 2009
11:26 am
Pat Phelps said: “Cynthia, your an idiot. When all else fails lets stur the pot once again by claiming racism.”
I guess I missed that part in the column. Please, Pat, tell us where she mentions race in her column today.
Report this comment
Joey
August 19th, 2009
11:30 am
Don’t come here much, but ncgrebr’s 11:26 was interesting.
“…tell us where she mentions race in her column today.”
Today. Very good.
Report this comment
ncgreybr
August 19th, 2009
11:35 am
Sorry, Joey. I thought today’s discussion was about today’s column.
I forgot there are ventors that are like my ex and go back years to briing up things in an arguement.
Report this comment
Chris Salzmann
August 19th, 2009
11:36 am
Pat Phelps August 19th, 2009 10:36 am SAID: People that have legitimate problems with government health care express there views. Do you even know these people? Have you talked to them?
CHRIS SAYS: What legitimate problems? All we progressives hear is talk of “socialism”, which is laughable. So Pat, are you in favor of eliminating Medicare, because that’s a “socialist” government program if there ever was one. Lets not forget the nonsense about “Death Panels”, or rationed care, or that illegals will be provided free health care, etc. Name me a few of those legitimate concerns? PLEASE.
Pat Phelps August 19th, 2009 10:36 am SAID:On what do you base your comments of racism? Simple because we disagree doesn’t make me a racist. I didn’t vote for Obama because he was black, but because I don’t want to live in a socialist country.
CHRIS SAYS: Did you call GW Bush a “socialist” when he introduced the Medicare Prescription Program? No? I didn’t think so? Do you even know what the word “socialist” means??? Look it up and you’ll then understand why each time you conservatives bring it up, we have a good laugh or think you’re retarded.
HERE”S THE DEFINITION: A Socialist state is defined as one where the majority of the means of economic production are in the hands of the State (or in our case, the federal government). In the case of the United States, 99.9% of economic production is in private hands.
BTW, Germany, France, the UK, etc are all countries that are based on market based capitalist economies. They also have some form subsidized health care. You define these countries as socialist???
So, Pat, do you now understand why all us progressives are laughing at you???
Report this comment
ncgreybr
August 19th, 2009
11:37 am
Interesting poll being talked about last night. 14% of Republicans don’t know Medicare is a government program and 10% aren’t sure. That is almost 1/4 of Republicans.
That’s scarey!
Report this comment
Chris Salzmann
August 19th, 2009
11:41 am
ctucker August 19th, 2009 11:23 am SAID: Pat, Where in the world did I say anything about race or racism in that column?
CHRIS SAYS: The only one with the racial issues here is Pat Phelps. Yeah, Pat, PLEASE tell us where Cynthia Tucker say anything about race in her column??? Please enlighten us ………
Report this comment
Peter Mokhiber
August 19th, 2009
11:42 am
I would like to say that, I have attended local meeting (on my own dime). I did so because, I have a simple objective. The country may or may not need reform in our health care. That subject is under current vigorous debate.
I would like to see our representatives re-read our founding documents, Declarartion of Independence & the Constitution. They could then explain simply to us the source of their authority to require us to have a governement agency mandate health care/insurance and the invasion into our individual private lives.
I strongly believe that I can make better, more economical decisions regarding my health care than a disconnected government oversight group. For one, I do not believe the government is an efficient deliverer of services to the general population and they do not have the authority to demand I participate.
Thank you.
Peter
Report this comment
I'm Scared
August 19th, 2009
11:44 am
“Despite the insistence of Republican leaders that the tea-party crowd and the town-hall protestors are merely concerned individuals who have spontaneously made the decision to shout and yell threats at public meetings, the protests are, in fact, prodded by networks of conservative activists. Richard Mellon Scaife, a Pittsburg billionaire who is the financial lifeblood of ultra-conservative activism, is a contributor, according to The Washington Post.”
Would someone explain the difference between George Soros funding the radical left (moveon.org) and Richard Mellon Scaife funding the conservative movement?
Report this comment
ncgreybr
August 19th, 2009
11:46 am
Peter, tell us where in the founding papers the leaders of our country 250 years ago mentioned having the FAA, CDC, the post office, FDA, development of the atomic bomb, regulationg of TV and radio, the interstate road system and the list goes on….
Report this comment
Chris Salzmann
August 19th, 2009
11:50 am
Peter Mokhiber August 19th, 2009 11:42 am SAID: I strongly believe that I can make better, more economical decisions regarding my health care than a disconnected government oversight group. For one, I do not believe the government is an efficient deliverer of services to the general population and they do not have the authority to demand I participate.
CHRIS SAYS: So Peter, you’re against the mandate requiring you to carry an appropriate level of insurance on the car that you drive? So its okay to require you to carry insurance on your car but not on yourself?
BTW, so who ends up paying for your medical care when you choose not to carry any health insurance, or only limited health insurance? WE ALL DO after you declare bankruptcy. BTW, over 50% of all personal bankruptcies in this country are related to health care costs. So, who do you think ends up paying for all these unpaid bills?
Report this comment
ncgreybr
August 19th, 2009
11:59 am
I’m Scared’s classic example of wording: the left is “radical” and the right is “conservative movement”.
Considering the lies and deceit we have heard from the “conservative movement” the more apt term is “wacko, off the wall and over the edge, right wing fringe group.”
As for Peter Mokhiber: where in the healthcare bill does it say you “have to participate”? It has been made very clear (but apparently you choose not to listen) that, if you already have health insurance and are happy with it, you can keep your current plan. You may even be surprised when their price goes down to becoome more competative. As for me, I am a single payer (I think that’s the term), with Blue Cross. I pay ONE-THIRD of my income for health insurance. If they decide to drop me, I’m up the creek. Ask me if I want the public option! Go ahead, ask me! (and millions more!)
Peter: What health care plan do you have? Employer participation??
Report this comment
proud old guy
August 19th, 2009
12:06 pm
Chris – to question whether people have “legitimate problems” with the bill depicts a level of arrogance. There are a lot of people who have legitimate disagreements with the contents of the bill that is being debated in the house. These include:
a) The whole concept of the CER which will determine which treatments are “effective” and tie doctors to those treatments. If the government decides, like they have in the UK, that cardiac catheterizations and cardiac stents do not offer adequate improvement of quality of life, they can refuse to pay for them after a certain age. In the UK that age is 59. That means that people with cardiac disease cannot get effective treatment. I strongly oppose this.
b) We have a current model for the end of life consulting that is operating in the VA today. The guidebook for this consulting was written primarily by an ardent assisted suicide advocate.
c) In certain kinds of situations, there is a marked difference in the effectiveness of different forms of certain drugs. My spouse responds well to a name brand drug for migraines. The generic equivalent provides no relief. If the plan allows a government board to decide which medicine can be dispensed, I have a legitimate disagreement with that.
Finally, Chris, there are a lot of people who have had interactions with government operations who are literally scared of what would happen to health care in this country. Ever tried to deal with the post office? In addition, there are millions of believe who profoundly believe that market solutions ultimately end up being vastly superior at lower cost.
The real problem with Obamacare is not the words that people use. It is that the dems are unwilling to make their case in the marketplace of ideas and convince people as to why it would be better. The life experiences of many create legitimate reservations that they are expressing to representatives who react with arrogance. This breeds the levels of distrust and resistance that we are seeing from plain old thoughtful everyday citizens.
Report this comment
Roy
August 19th, 2009
12:07 pm
Cynthia Tucker doesn’t have to mention the word racism for us to know that’s whats in her thoughts. Read her previous columns. Racism is the theme in all but a few. Hillary Clinton cried “vast right-wing conspiracy” until the blue dress showed turned up and blew that away. (No pun intended.)
Report this comment
Roy
August 19th, 2009
12:08 pm
Delete either showed or turned.
Report this comment
Rita
August 19th, 2009
12:10 pm
Does anyone really think that this “debate” is over anything other than a game that’s already rigged? Forget “socialism” or the other hot-button words that get the old fat white folks in a tizzy. Insurance companies have spent $200MM (one would assume from our premiums we faithfully pay each month) to ensure that there will be NO competition, EVER, and they can keep raising their premiums forever.
In the bigger picture, if any kind of meaningful health care reform goes through, the Republicans know they’ll be in the wilderness for a couple decades, just like they were after Social Security passed in the 30s and Medicare passed in the 60s. Americans may talk about “freedom”, but they love their “free” s*** from the government. If the deficit was their main concern, how come they aren’t outraged over the $$trillion that’s already been spent in Iraq? The politicians want to protect their jobs long enough to get to the real brass ring, making big bucks as lobbyists. If they were not convinced that health care reform would become as popular as SS and Medicare and their opposition to it would put them out of a job, they would simply allow the legislation to go forward, watch the Democrats wither, and then change the law when they took power again.
Report this comment
Cosby Smith
August 19th, 2009
12:17 pm
Tucker is up to her prejudices again. She badsshed the bush administration everytime she could and now blast those who stand up for their rights. Al Frankin and George Soros bought the Senate seat, no word. ACLU, AARP, Acorn bus their people into town halss and no word from Tucker. If you believein your freedom and personal rights, do not look for Tucker to be on your side. She wants to be on the government plantation – craddle to grave.
Report this comment
Pat Phelps
August 19th, 2009
12:24 pm
Cynthia,
you don’t have to mention race to know you are thinking about it. Your comments to Chris Matthews the other day are proof positive you are thinking that way.
Report this comment
I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator :-) You Whine :-(
August 19th, 2009
12:29 pm
Would someone explain the difference between George Soros funding the radical left (moveon.org) and Richard Mellon Scaife funding the conservative movement?
Heck, what would you call the federal government funding ACORN and other assorted health care supporters?
This lib doesn’t seem to know she’s in a glass house.
Report this comment
Robyn
August 19th, 2009
12:31 pm
It’s alright to take a portion of my money and help the truly needy. It’s not alright to give it to worthless bums and welfare brood mares.
Report this comment
Chris Salzmann
August 19th, 2009
12:34 pm
proud old guy August 19th, 2009 12:06 pm SAID:
a) The whole concept of the CER which will determine which treatments are “effective” and tie doctors to those treatments. If the government decides, like they have in the UK, that cardiac catheterizations and cardiac stents do not offer adequate improvement of quality of life, they can refuse to pay for them after a certain age. In the UK that age is 59. That means that people with cardiac disease cannot get effective treatment. I strongly oppose this.
CHRIS SAYS: POG (Proud Old Guy), that’s a good point isn’t this is supposition on your part. We don’t know which treatments will be called ineffective. Also, doesn’t Medicare already cover this? Isn’t this reform bill currently meant for those folks who a) Are not on Medicare (b) Have no insurance (c) Are on single payer plans and (d) On single payer plans that exclude pre-existing conditions.
proud old guy August 19th, 2009 12:06 pm SAID:
b) We have a current model for the end of life consulting that is operating in the VA today. The guidebook for this consulting was written primarily by an ardent assisted suicide advocate.
CHRIS SAYS: End of life consulting is primarily meant to ensure everyone has a living will. In fact, many Republicans supported this measure, in one form or another, in the past. This myth of a “death panel” has been debunked various times, again and again. Also, I don’t believe that the VA in any way supports assisted suicide at all, inspite of who wrote it.
proud old guy August 19th, 2009 12:06 pm SAID:
c) In certain kinds of situations, there is a marked difference in the effectiveness of different forms of certain drugs. My spouse responds well to a name brand drug for migraines. The generic equivalent provides no relief. If the plan allows a government board to decide which medicine can be dispensed, I have a legitimate disagreement with that.
CHRIS SAYS: Again, since you’re an “OLD” guy (I’m wildly guessing here), isn’t that already covered under your Medicare Prescription Plan? By the way, many private insurance plans don’t cover many brand drugs. HOWEVER, there is no government board mentioned in this bill that can decide what medicine can be dispensed. I’ve read through the bill and haven’t come across that.
proud old guy August 19th, 2009 12:06 pm SAID:
Finally, Chris, there are a lot of people who have had interactions with government operations who are literally scared of what would happen to health care in this country. Ever tried to deal with the post office? In addition, there are millions of believe who profoundly believe that market solutions ultimately end up being vastly superior at lower cost.
CHRIS SAYS: I think that the Post Office is a pretty bad example. Most people I know, are pretty happy with Medicare, which is a health INSURANCE program. The VA is a bad example since this program involves the ENTIRE HEALTH CARE CYCLE including HOSPITAL and SPECIALIST CARE. The Health Care Reform bill is aimed at health INSURANCE plans and how to pay for them.
proud old guy August 19th, 2009 12:06 pm SAID:
The real problem with Obamacare is not the words that people use. It is that the dems are unwilling to make their case in the marketplace of ideas and convince people as to why it would be better. The life experiences of many create legitimate reservations that they are expressing to representatives who react with arrogance. This breeds the levels of distrust and resistance that we are seeing from plain old thoughtful everyday citizens.
CHRIS SAYS: I agree with some of what you wrote here. I’ve heard some politicians complain that the Bill is over 1,000 pages long. Aren’t they paid to read through this? Why else are they there? HOWEVER, the entire reform bill is available online. There are also NON-PARTISAN websites, not tied to any corporate or political interests that are available to debunk many myths that are thrown around about this reform bill. The two websites that I know of are: http://www.factcheck.org and http://www.politifact.com
FINALLY, please remember that this bill is primarily an INSURANCE bill.
Report this comment
Roy
August 19th, 2009
12:37 pm
Cynthia is in a tizzy because she found out the protester with the AR-15 was a black guy and the guy that did the Obama-Joker poster was a Palestinian from Chicago.
Report this comment
Mac
August 19th, 2009
12:38 pm
What you write is true and insightful. However, I sure there are, but am ignorant of the names of the interests on the other side of this political battle and would like to know what those are as well. Thanks for your hard work, Cynthia.
Report this comment
Chris Salzmann
August 19th, 2009
12:39 pm
Robyn August 19th, 2009 12:31 pm : It’s alright to take a portion of my money and help the truly needy. It’s not alright to give it to worthless bums and welfare brood mares.
CHRIS SAYS: When talking about “worthless bums”, just remember that many of the homeless are veterans. Also, some compassion should be called for and remember the old saying “But for the grace of God, there go I”.
Report this comment
Pat Phelps
August 19th, 2009
12:43 pm
Chris, Yes the government runs Medicare and has bankrupted the program. Social Security is all but bankrupt and probably will not be around when I retire. The United States Senate could not even run their own cafeteria without screwing it up and bankrupting it. So explain to me how the government will pay for and administer a trillion dollar program without bankrupting it?
The father of moderm day socialism said, “from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs.” How is this program different than that quote from Karl Marx?
Report this comment
Jim
August 19th, 2009
12:43 pm
Go “vast rightwing conspiracy” – You liberals are nuts!! Republicans are forced to show up and make our representatives listen! It takes a lot of hard work to balance out the liberal mainstream media, all of which should get pay checks cut by the DNC. Instead of thoughtful debate, democrats are always so quick to demonize and blame some “right wing conspiracy.” So as a PROUD member of the “vast right wing conspiracy”, i guess i’m a racist too – right??? It’s always one or the other – and sometimes both with you people!
BTW – Love those poll numbers falling faster and faster everyday! 
Thanks for waking up the sleeping public and giving them a reason to give us back the Whitehouse and Congress!!!
Report this comment
DannyX
August 19th, 2009
12:45 pm
Cynthia, actually the nut case Republicans started back with their non-sense last summer during the presidential campaign. “Hussein” Obama, flag pin, birth certificate, ACORN, Michelle and all of the other non-sense was all Republicans could talk about. Those were their issues.
Now all of the sudden a real issue comes up and they act like a bunch of spoiled brats that had a toy taken away. They still aren’t even focused on the issue. Now we have the Nazi claims, the socialist name game, stuffing guns all over your body to make a point, and still more birther nonsense.
This kind of idiocy on the part of Republicans is very self-destructive. Instead of the Democrats Republicans should be trying to get rid of every last Republican leader for allowing their party to be hijacked.
Of course the Democrats now control the federal government with a super-majority in the House, filibuster-proof Senate, and the Presidency.
Report this comment
the evil rich
August 19th, 2009
12:46 pm
Yeah, but when leftist do it you NEVER report it, do you? Your credibilty is ZERO on this.
Report this comment
billy bob
August 19th, 2009
12:48 pm
People still read this paper?
Report this comment
sue bob
August 19th, 2009
12:51 pm
2009 – First black U. S. President enters the White House
2013 – First Communist U. S. President leaves the White House
(Hopefully sooner)
Report this comment
Pat Phelps
August 19th, 2009
12:55 pm
Danny X…if I remember correctly the first lady of the Democratic party, the lovely Nancy Polesi, started the Nazi name calling. Were you just as outraged at that? Did you call and complain to her? Of course not, because there is a double standard on the left.
Report this comment
Scott
August 19th, 2009
12:56 pm
This health care reform is just another option for people to sit around their butts and live off the the government. The people who actually work will have to pay for it but it wont be enough to cover the costs. And although nobody wants to say it, liberals want Doctor’s to make between 50-100k like they do in France….one problem….who would want to be a doctor then? And although we don’t know the entire bill, we do know there will be a panel to determine which health care procedures are appropriate (i.e cost-beneficial). Weird.
Report this comment
godless heathen
August 19th, 2009
12:56 pm
CT wrote: “But ideologues like DeMint and Newt Gingrich have made it pretty clear that they’re not interested in finding the best approach on public policy or in helping Americans cope with skyrocketing health care costs. They just want to win political battles.”
And whenever possible bring up the bogeyman Newt Gingrich to get the libs in a tizzy. If Ms. Tucker would take the time to actually listen to Mr. Gingrich, she would know that he has substantial proposals that would address the issue that aren’t just about winning political battles.
Report this comment
Peter
August 19th, 2009
12:57 pm
What are you Bobbing on ……..sue bob ? Obviously not a book !
2009 Dumbest President “ever” leaves office…..Probably made you Cry !
Report this comment
Pat Phelps
August 19th, 2009
1:02 pm
Chris…I would not even begin to talk about racism, so you will need to be enlightened somewhere else. I will say that on the Chris Matthews show Cynthia Tucker presumed to judge the people attending these Town Hall meetings by saying that 45% to 65% are there simply because Barak Obama is black. Are you as outraged at those comments as you are at mine? Probably not, because I would say you agree.
Report this comment
JackLeg
August 19th, 2009
1:04 pm
I wonder why a racist like Cynthia Tucker can make a living out of being a racist, but if you are white you can’t….. I wonder when we will all live by the same rules?
Report this comment
Azazel
August 19th, 2009
1:08 pm
James Dickey was right about us: Progressives took a wrong turn on the way to “Aintry”, and are ill prepared for the vicious reaction from a world to be left behind.
Report this comment
Muriel
August 19th, 2009
1:08 pm
Clearly Coles shot the police officer. How the police got it so wrong is beyond me. Coles was pistol whipping a homeless man over a bottle of beer when the the off-duty policeman came to find out what was going on. Why Davis would then shoot the policeman with a gun he didn’t own is beyond me. Coles owned a gun, but the police never recovered. They never found Davis with a gun. As far as Cooper is concerned, Davis and Coles were at the party. Again, Coles gun has never been recovered.
The witnesses that are now recanting were clearly not credible. One person said she saw things she could not possibly have seen. Another signed a statement that he couldn’t read.
Coles had a high paid lawyer, Davis didn’t. There’s your justice folks. This is why the S.Ct. granted a motion in this case they haven’t granted in 80 years.
Report this comment
norman ravitch
August 19th, 2009
1:09 pm
It is true that Newt Gingrich has many interesting ideas. He is a man of ideas. But he is totally devoid of moral and ethical considerations.
Report this comment
ncgreybr
August 19th, 2009
1:13 pm
If the guy at the meeting with the AR-15 was a black guy, he was the whitest black guy I ever saw.
As for the guy that was interviewed with the handgun, he was flakier than my mother’s pie crust!
Report this comment
Randyinathens
August 19th, 2009
1:14 pm
All of liberals on here take 2 minutes to look the constitution up online, I’m sure it’s there. Then copy and paste onto this blog exactly where it says it is the responsibility of government to take tax dollars from my paycheck and pay for healthcare for ANYBODY. Legal residents, illegal aliens, temporary residents, high income earners, low income earners, A N Y B O D Y !!!!!! It is not there.
Report this comment
Randyinathens
August 19th, 2009
1:15 pm
Here in esence is what we have the right to do and what we OUGHT to do
“That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government”,
Report this comment
Azazel
August 19th, 2009
1:18 pm
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Promote domestic tranquility and promote general welfare seem justification enough for health and health care for all.
Report this comment
jms
August 19th, 2009
1:20 pm
Cynthia,
I think your right-wing conspiracy is really just ordinary folks like me. I’m not political. Never been to a rally and don’t listen to talk radio. what I do see is a trillion dollar government plan on top of the hundreds of billions already spent in the last year. This crushing legacy of debt isn’t something I want to leave for my children.
Report this comment
what?
August 19th, 2009