This and that in Clayton …

While both issues below are things I wanted to discuss this week, I couldn’t pick just one, as they are both important topics (among many other things) going on in Clayton lately.

In response to a possible second school uniform protest by high school students, I was happy that Superintendent Edmond Heatley opted to dole out detentions in lieu of suspensions. It makes more sense because there’s always a faction who don’t care about missing a day, but who wants to stay late after school?

Further, directly involving parents by having them retrieve their detained child(ren) will hopefully force them to pay attention to what their kids are doing (or not doing). Yes I know school uniforms will not solve all of the problems in Clayton County Public Schools, but they sure can’t hurt.

In addition, I recently attended the joint meeting between Clayton’s legislative delegation and our Board of Commissioners. The turnout was abysmal (as was the weather that day) – there may have been five residents in attendance (not including elected officials).

So some may not know that based on discussions at this meeting, it sounded like C-Tran could still have a shelf life if funding issues can be worked out with MARTA, the state and the federal government. This could be good or bad news depending on which side of the bus shelter you’re standing. Either way, those affected by this will probably want to contact their elected officials and let them know where you stand.

2010 is definitely going to be interesting around here! Wishing you all a safe and blessed Christmas Clayton!

115 comments Add your comment

Claytonian

December 21st, 2009
11:19 am

I agree about the school detention and definitely about C-Tran, that needs to end and I hope our elected officials aren’t trying to pull a fast one to keep C-Tran running. I will contact my Commissionr. You have a Merry Christmas too Kimberly!

Rhonda

December 21st, 2009
2:54 pm

About the uniforms, did anyone ask the Clayton County high school students if they wanted to wear uniforms? Apparently not. These are budding adults here. They should be learning to make their own decisions about life, and choosing what is appropriate to wear is one of them. Instead of giving suspension or detention to mass numbers of students wouldn’t it be easier to give detention to the students who come to school inappropriately dressed? I think that they don’t want to be treated like children, and I, for one, don’t blame them. Let the younger grades wear the uniforms, as they ARE the children, and let the high school students get ready for college and professional jobs by learning how to dress appropriately.

I don’t have strong feelings about C-Tran. My only thoughts on it are that since it’s inception, I have never seen more than 5 or 6 people on them. Maybe we should have started out with smaller buses. It would have been much more cost effective.

Pathetic

December 21st, 2009
3:03 pm

You know CTRAN is going nowhere. They will find a way to keep it, just to get the votes next election. About three of them, including Bell, know they are finished next election, and they will find a way to get the funds. Watch!

True Dat

December 21st, 2009
3:23 pm

The uniform policy is worthless if noone is going to enforce it. I was at Lovejoy High School last week in the office. There standing were two teachers, an assistant AD, a few office workers, and an administrator. Walking in and out of the office were kids sagging with shirts untucked. In walks a female student not even close to uniform policy and wearing not even one article of clothing with school colors. As I stood there and watched, not one of the seven who worked for Principal Colbert said a single thing. Not one word to any of them. When I brought it up and asked why they were not enforcing the policy, two of them said to me, “it’s up to the teachers, it’s not our job”.

Talk to the hand

December 21st, 2009
4:22 pm

to Rhonda: So you think these “budding adults” should learn to make their own decisions when It comes to how they dress. That is the problem. They have no idea what is appropriate dress. That is why when they go for a job interview they dress like a “Hoochie Mama’ in tops so revealing that moreis worn at the pink pony. And cutoffs so short that you can see the dimples in their cheeks. not to mention the flip-flops or “I’m a slut shoes” I have seen so many of the people doing the interviews at job fairs just file their applications in the circular file as soon as they leave. The same goes for the guys who dress like gang bangers or thugs. In pants with the crotch hanging down to their knees. Dirty muscle shirts or clothes no self respecting person who was trying to get a job would wear. Apparently their parents hove no clue what is “appropriate dress” Or they would not pay for what these “Budding Adults” are wearing. Thus the school needs to step in and require Uniform dress. They might as well get used to wearing uniforms since they will soon have to wear them in their working environment. (Yo want fries wit dat?)

jimmy (conservative brother)

December 21st, 2009
4:46 pm

I said it last week. The issue with Chief Turner was a diversion. Everyone was up in arms on one side or the other of that issue while this C-Tran mess was going on. We know that the C-Tran is a hot button issue. If it were known that the C-Tran issue was still hanging around I bet you there would have been more people there in opposition.
Mr. Bell needs to know that we are tired of the same old political games. Saying one thing in public while doing the opposite behind closed doors.

Tell The Truth

December 21st, 2009
5:21 pm

If they’re talking about trying to save C-Tran, I will personally give money to each of their opponents. These commissioners better smarten up or find themselves out of a job.

Bob

December 21st, 2009
5:24 pm

If you observe inappropriate dress at the schools – email the principal and the Superintendent on the same email. If the principal thinks someone is watching whether he/she is doing their job, and reporting to the Superintendent, they will be more likely to do their job.

By the way – the uniform dress came in because your little darlings had more of a desire to look prison-thug or hoochie, not as young adults. My child is there to get an education and college, not street cred. Good luck on your kids chances on BET music and videos, one in a milion.

Wole Ralph – please learn to tell the truth. Bell wants all dept heads to report to him – as it was before you helped bring in Cohilas. Ask Mr. Starr what to do next. All delp heads should be treated the same, either report to Cohilas or Bell. Stop with the BS explanations, your ego is showing.

Shannon, M.Div.

December 21st, 2009
5:26 pm

Kimberly, I respectfully disagree with you. I think uniforms do have at least the potential to hurt. The pro-uniform arguments I have seen begin with how terrible the students looked while not following the old dress code. The simple and obvious solution: enforce the dress code. Allow for individuality while maintaining standards. Rhonda is completely correct here; those young adults need both to be treated as young adults and to be trained in appropriate attire.

Other arguments I have seen include the suggestion that uniforms increase discipline. This begs the question, discipline or groupthink? As I’ve said before, this 1992 graduate of Lovejoy High would have fought uniforms with everything I am. I would’ve poured energy into being allowed to wear what I wanted to wear, as long as it was appropriate. Since there weren’t required uniforms, I was able to focus that energy into AP courses, test scores that made me the school’s STAR student, and a college career that includes two masters degrees even as I pursue a doctorate now.

Would it have been the wisest course of action to put energy into fighting uniforms when I should’ve been learning? Of course not, but the human brain isn’t fully matured until age 25. Not only is rebellion is part of the natural order of things, but teenagers also have a built-in BS meter to see when someone’s trying to paint a mural on a trash can. Uniform policy is a mural on a trash can–dangerous schools, decreasing test scores, etc.

Most importantly, the evidence as to the effectiveness of uniforms is inconclusive; peer-reviewed studies have come down on multiple sides of the issue. Since it isn’t a settled question through research, it certainly ought not be policy. Students have enough crap (read: stupid rules) to deal with at their schools without adding even more arbitrary guidelines.

Honestly, if students show up to school on time, don’t flash each other with inappropriate clothing, talk in class only when it’s appropriate, pay attention to their teachers, and do their best to learn something–well, that ought to be quite enough for any school. And if they aren’t doing that, making them wear khaki or navy blue isn’t going to improve any of those things.

Just call me a nonconformist who has NEVER worn a uniform to work and who is extremely proud of that fact! I went on to higher education to avoid just that sort of thing.

SA

December 21st, 2009
6:44 pm

Lovejoy 1992. What I wouldn’t do to have THAT world back.

Carlos

December 21st, 2009
7:12 pm

If this superintendent and board can put the same amount of emphasis on academic rigor, staffing the classes with subject appropriate teachers, books for all students and life skills classes then all of our students will be able to excel.

This obsession with uniforms will not prepare our children for the real world. CCPS is so low on the academic bar. Raise hell about that, call the parents to the school about that. Keep students at their schools for that. Clearly, we do not have the board or superintendent who can help us to become a world class school system yet. Remember election time is coming up.

As for CTRAN let it go!

I Told You So

December 21st, 2009
9:11 pm

You might as well say its 2010 mass transportation is “Simply” good sense even as an emissions decreaser; next a rail system, only common sense. “Protest As One”, we will “WIN” if we get at least 9,000 of our 10,000 protesters to “Act As One” on P-Day. All or None!

Shannon, M.Div.

December 21st, 2009
9:16 pm

Granted, SA–it’s a different world now. My Lovejoy High School didn’t have metal detectors.

Hot Button Issues

December 21st, 2009
9:19 pm

Some of you people will never learn! You can’t have everything your bigotted way all the time. Stop the hate!

Sgt Rock

December 21st, 2009
9:34 pm

Is it possible that the Commissioners will be meeting tomorrow evening, 22 Dec. 2009 at 6 PM to deliver to Chief Jeff Turner an “Adverse Action”?

Is it possible the General Public will turn out to support Chief Jeff Turner at this time???

Isn’t it odd that only a few days ago, the Commission voted to give Honorable Eldrin Bell oversight of the Police Department and now Chief Turner, one of the most effective crime fighters this County has ever seen, will be called before this body???

It is a shame and a sham. We all knew this from the beginning of this so called “restructuring” that there were insidious motives at play and here it is. Effective leadership usurped, a slap in the face of the Citizens, disrespect to the Law Enforcement community in general and the Clayton County Police Department specifically.

Whatcha gonna do Clayton County Citizens?

sjkfd

December 22nd, 2009
12:32 am

I have contacted an attorney about the fascist uniform policy.

NOT AGAIN!

December 22nd, 2009
12:41 am

Secial called BOC meeting tomorrow. Looks like they are going to fire Chief Turner.

Jill

December 22nd, 2009
1:03 am

Good grief, people! Can’t even of you see that all of the shananighans are the manipulations of Wade Starr? Control of the Police Department? Yes, he knows Bell’s weaknesses. He knows that Bell wants this, but that Bell is “Ancient of Days” and won’t be Chairman for too many more years. Then, his coterie of co-conspirators (Wole, Gail, and that other woman) can rule Clayton County with an iron fist, like Josef Stalin in the 1920s and 1930s in the old USSR. Does anyone see this? How elemental. Bell just keeps falling into Wade Starr’s traps. Starr is just smarter than Bell. Bell is playing Chain-gang Checkers while Starr is playing high stakes chess. Starr just uses Cohilas as his “boy” to put another “face” on the political mechanizations. I visit this blog about once every week or two and am amazed at how no one seems to understand what is going on. Quit looking at the outside tapestry and look at all of the cords underneath the rug. That’s where everything is happening. Well, perhaps I did exaggerate the Stalin thing but what about Dick Daley?

Pathetic

December 22nd, 2009
6:08 am

Folks its time to turnout at the BOC meeting tonight and let them know that they can be recalled if necessary! This meeting is an attempt by Wade Starr, and Eldrin to oust Chief Turner.. 6:00pm tonight!

Bob

December 22nd, 2009
8:41 am

Wole Ralph is Wade Starr’s puppet, not Eldrin. Wade is looking to run the county when his protege Wole becomes Chairman. Turner should fear Wole and Wade , not Bell.

Turn around

December 22nd, 2009
8:51 am

My child did not like the implementation of uniform dress, but she hated more having to watch scores upon scores of young men walk the halls of our schools with their jockey underwear showing from their waist to the bottom of their rear end, then their boxer underwear showing from the bottom of their rear end to their knees and then their pants belted at the knees. All the while, holding their pants from falling to the floor with one hand holding their crotch, never letting go, as if it were a security blanket. Go ahead see what your pimp lawyer can come up with. In the meantime, I will check into a sexual harrassment suit. By the way, went your sons go to jail, tell them to be sure to wear those same pants, and wait for their surprise.

kallen

December 22nd, 2009
9:25 am

PUBLIC NOTICE
The Clayton County Board of Commissioners will hold a SPECIAL CALLED MEETING on Tuesday, December 22, 2009, at 6:00 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Conference Room, located at 112 Smith Street/Administration Building in Jonesboro, Georgia. The purpose of this meeting is to discuss personnel issues in Clayton County. An Executive Session will be held as a part of this Special Called Meeting for the purpose of discussing personnel issues. Pursuant to the Open Meetings Act, the public is invited to the Special Called Meeting. Executive Sessions, however, are closed to the public.

Carlos

December 22nd, 2009
9:58 am

If the people only knew, they would be saluting the commissioners for the work that they are doing to keep us safe and improve the quality of life for all Clayton citizens. Do not be fooled by this trickery and keep your eyes open. Turner is an employee, not an elected official and he does not even live in Clayton County, he lives in Henry County. All this crap about Wade Starr is just another attempt to divide the county. Do not fall for it! And if you do not attend the BOC meetings on a regular basis, you have only the AJC and News Daily to inform you of what is going on. They both have a tendency to either get it wrong or be biased. Do not let Willie Lynch continue to live, divide and strive in Clayton County people.

SA

December 22nd, 2009
10:21 am

Now I know Carlos is full of it.

Jill

December 22nd, 2009
12:23 pm

Oh Carlos, you can’t fool a Corleone.

Oh please

December 22nd, 2009
12:26 pm

In response to Shannon, M. Div.

Henry County High 1996. I grew up three miles away from Lovejoy High but because I lived on the other side of the county line I was forced to attend school in McDonough. Lovejoy High had NO dress code throughout the 90’s and it doesn’t sound like they much bother to enforce the county-wide mandated policies now. Your argument that you were a STAR student amid a dress-code lenient environment is not valid against uniform dress policies. ALL schools have STAR students regardless of the enforcement of dress code. The fact of the matter is for every one of you, there were at least 20 or 30 or more other students NOT heading in the same scholarly direction as yourself. Unless every student becomes sucessful entrepreneurs (highly doubtful) at some point in life they will have to report to an authority figure that will dictate how, when, and where they spend their time as well as how to dress. High school is the place where respect for authority is taught; the preparation for adulthood. Life is not fair and neither is high school. Peer pressure is more important to teens than their parents’ concerns. With so many parents not bothering to teach their children what is appropriate, it makes it that much harder for the parents who are. While no one wants to stifle their children’s creativity and sense of individuality, there are other outlets to allow for that than dress and appearance. Let’s teach our children to be less concerned about appearance and focus their passions and energies on the arts.

Progressive African American

December 22nd, 2009
12:26 pm

Politics and organized religion is the best game in town! Let’s face it truth seeking defenders – we have been beat, beat and beat again.

Namaste

Oh please

December 22nd, 2009
12:39 pm

LOL, Turnaround! I have heard that the fashion trend started with jail. If only these little boys pretending to be men knew where the trend started from and what its supposed to mean. Maybe they would be a little less likely to make themselves look so foolish.

Pity The Fools In CC

December 22nd, 2009
12:56 pm

Would the real elected officials please stand up ?

I’ll be darn, I was laying my bets on Number 3; Jeff Turner.

Pity The Fools In CC

December 22nd, 2009
2:24 pm

SA “Now I know Carlos is full of it.”

Where’s The Debate ?

Don’t condemn Carlos for disagreeing on your crush on Turner.

Pity The Fools In CC

December 22nd, 2009
4:14 pm

What is the problem about wearing Uniforms ? One person mentioned preparing the children for the real world. We have uniforms and proper dress codes in all aspects in our society. What is the big deal ?

Pity The Fools in CC

Pity The Fools In CC

December 22nd, 2009
4:57 pm

I hope and pray that our county commissioners will find some way to keep our C-Tran Buses. Public Transportation some us less unfortunates have a way to get back and forth. I must asked of you to Help support our public transportation in this county; please.

SA

December 22nd, 2009
5:55 pm

If the people only knew. Do not be fooled by this trickery. Do not fall for it! Willie Lynch. Sounds pretty much like a snake-oil salesman. Nothing to debate.

Pity The Fools In CC

December 22nd, 2009
6:32 pm

“Nothing to debate.”

Do you know what Debate means ?

Look it up.

Pity The Fool

Jonesboro

December 22nd, 2009
6:41 pm

I feel for the C-Tran bus riders…….but C-Tran needs to go…its underutilized, expensive and trashy…look at fayette and henry…they don’t have it and the people do just fine and theose counties are 10 times better than Clayton.
Maybe people can start van pools…spark some new business.

Pity The Fools In CC

December 22nd, 2009
6:42 pm

Jeff Turner : Tick, Tock, Tick, Tock, Tick

Pity The Fool

Jonesboro

December 22nd, 2009
6:43 pm

How many terms can a commissioner serve? Eldrin is on his 2nd….please don’t re-elect him. He only won because they didn’t want Lee Scott to win…Bell was the lesser of the two evils.
We need balance in Clayton…we need a better mix and class of citizen to reside here..PERIOD. Thats the only way to improve the county

Jonesboro

December 22nd, 2009
6:55 pm

Carlos made a good point..THE PUSH SHOULD BE TOWARDS ACADEMIC RIGOR. The uniforms are a good idea…those who don’t like them are the type to dress too sexy for work…go to Kroger in their pajamas and house slippers….and definitely the pant saggers.

ITS A DAMN SHAME STUDENTS ORGANIZE TO FIGHT UNIFORMS BUT WONT ORGANIZE TO FIGHT THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE THE LOWEST TEST SCORES IN METRO ATLANTA….IS ANYBODY LISTENING

Jonesboro

December 22nd, 2009
6:58 pm

Voting the BOC out wont help unless you have a viable opponent to replace them…some of these people run unopposed. A lot of people don’t vote so it doesn’t take a lot to win an election….two mega churches might secure it. Put a good candidate up…preferably someone who isn’t from the usual CC mix.

NOT AGAIN!

December 22nd, 2009
7:06 pm

RECALL: Wole Ralph
RECALL: Sonia Singleton
RECALL: Gail Hambrick

I Told You So

December 22nd, 2009
9:01 pm

Are you “Serious” pink clowns like “NOT AGAIN” and his other lemmings running around screaming “RECALL” “Again Are You Serious”! You pinkos couldn’t even get those old final four BOE members recalled. You better go see Sonny again to remove them! Hahahaha!!! Or leave the county!

Whimper from Fayetteville

December 22nd, 2009
9:18 pm

I wonder with all the school system issues in Clayton County that affect a teacher’s ability to teach and appropriately manage classrooms, why MACE and Trotter aren’t backing Clayton teachers for better teaching conditions. I guess the lion’s roar from Fayetteville is now a whimper and the King of the Jungle is sitting in Fayetteville with its tail between its legs.

Pathetic

December 22nd, 2009
10:04 pm

GREAT IDEA! PLAY TIME IS OVER!
RECALL: Wole Ralph
RECALL: Sonia Singleton
RECALL: Gail Hambrick

Fed Up

December 22nd, 2009
10:32 pm

RECALL these idiots. and if Bell and Edmundson cannot grow some balls – then get rid of them too. This is nothing but gutter politics. Look at those involved and you understand why. Congratulations BOC – you have Clayton back in the news – just like old times. The news is saying – look at those fools down there – they are at it again. I cannot believe these BOC fools are pulling this – ” it has come to our attention” BS. If there were issues – then why didn’t Wole’s (Wade Starr’s) handpicked Cohilas do anything to make changes to remedy them. Is Cohilas’ only job to kiss the rear ends of these 3 moron, idiot, commissioners,who gave him the position, Wole, Gail and Sonia – don’t forget Wade too. You all had a chance to bring our county forward, but you give more ammunition to those who say Clayton is a laughingstock for these stupid petty political dealings. We deserve better, where can we find people who really what to work for the betterment of the county and not for their own egos and the enrichment of their friends. Wole Ralph, Sonia Singleton, Gail Hambrick – you are all a great disappointment. Someone should teach you all what real public service is, because what you are doing – IS NOT. Enjoy your term – it will be your last.

Resolute

December 22nd, 2009
10:36 pm

Chief Turner for Commission Chairman!!!! He would kick Wole’s butt 3 to 1.

oldtimer

December 22nd, 2009
10:36 pm

After my husband had a 35 year career in the south metro area and had known Jeff Turner since he was a yooung man…He has been done dirty. he has done a good job and many respect him….I say recall the board.

Carlos

December 22nd, 2009
10:41 pm

Not Again and Pathetic recall these people for what? You can not get citizens to attend a meeting to understand the process. Come up with a real strategy please.

Pity The Fools In CC

December 22nd, 2009
10:42 pm

RECALL: Wole Ralph
RECALL: Sonia Singleton
RECALL: Gail Hambrick

A Recall Takes More Than Two Signatures.

“Put a good candidate up…preferably someone who isn’t from the usual CC mix.”

I have a much better idea; Elect People from another county, and the let the voters from that same county do the voting.

Pity The Fools

Carlos

December 22nd, 2009
10:47 pm

Resolute, Turner does not live in Clayton County.

oldtimer

December 22nd, 2009
10:49 pm

I am sorry to here about Turner….I think he did a god job.

Pity The Fools In CC

December 22nd, 2009
11:10 pm

Double A ; You sure called that one !!!

Pity The Rest of The Fools

Insider

December 22nd, 2009
11:12 pm

Just in! New chief to back a ban all handguns in Clayton County! Way to go!

BB

December 22nd, 2009
11:13 pm

DA – your moniker fits DumbA–

RayJay

December 22nd, 2009
11:26 pm

We will again be the butt of jokes throughout Georgia. How foolish can our elected officials be. Why can’t Wade Starr’s three stooges Wole, Gail and Sonia – and now Bell and Edmundson do what is right. If there are perceived issues, work on them – this is a good man, with the county good in him. Wole your marriage in shambles, you are Wade Starr’s do-boy, surely that knocks you out of being commissoner, Gail – well you know why you should not be there and Sonia your association with Victor Hill should knock you out of this job. None of you deserve to be in your positions. so much promise not delivered. But you do have these jobs, the voters gave you all a chance – despite your issues and the monkeys on your backs. Do not take this man from the citizens who knows our county is better with him than without.

Resolute

December 22nd, 2009
11:32 pm

So Cohilas job was, what. Go do a hatchet job on whoever Wade Starr wanted to discredit. Hey – Wade – why don’t you run for the office. Oh yea, you would not win.

NOT AGAIN!

December 23rd, 2009
12:14 am

This is some seriously dirty politics at play here. The BOC has lost their everlastin’ mind. Personal vendetta because Turner wounld’nt go along with their misdeeds! So, now, they will just go and find a new chief who will. A yes man to hide their dirty deeds even more. This is a mess!

Taxpayer

December 23rd, 2009
5:29 am

He should be relieved of his duties immediately. Turner is not a manager and should be removed from ANY high-level position. I am disappointed that he accepted a job for which he was clearly unprepared. We need a chief with a proven track record.

And for those suggesting that Turner run for chairman. This suggestion is indicative of who lives in Clayton — an uneducated and under-educated electorate. Turner doesn’t live in Clayton County. Granted, he could move here and satisfy that requirement. But if he didn’t move here while he was chief, one would think it would be less of an option for him now.

GREAT job Sonna, Wole and Gail. Your leadership is what this county needs. Can’t wait to see you in person to tell you so. Good looking out!

Resolute

December 23rd, 2009
7:11 am

Why did Bell and Edmundson roll over – what has Wade Starr got on them. Crime is down in Clayton while Chief Turner has been over the Police dept – that is the measure to use here. The incidents the BOC has brought forward were dealt with. DO they really think for the Chief to be perfect – that everyone under him also has to be perfect,. Do the commissioners really want their own dirty laundry brought forth – they would just whither away. Nobody is perfect – but the Chief is a better person than any BOC member and better than the vast majority of Claton public officials, The Chief has great support amongst all your constituents. Tread lightly here, BOC, you own jobs are at stake here, not just the Chief’s.

Pity The Fools In CC

December 23rd, 2009
7:26 am

Resolute : Please Quit with the whimpering.

Insider

December 23rd, 2009
7:44 am

The board better tread lightly now, and legally.One slip up is all it takes, and the public is watching intently.

Pity The Fools In CC

December 23rd, 2009
7:45 am

Resolute

December 22nd, 2009
10:36 pm
“Chief Turner for Commission Chairman!!!! He would kick Wole’s butt 3 to 1.”

Well; Turner is not The Commission Chairman, and If was you, I would forget about this silly notion and get on with your life.

Pity The Fools In CC

December 23rd, 2009
7:51 am

Insider “The board better tread lightly now, and legally.One slip up is all it takes, and the public is watching intently.”

WOW Insider, That sounds to be Scary !!! Ha, Ha, Ha

Pity The Fool

Shannon, M.Div.

December 23rd, 2009
7:57 am

Just one question for you pro-uniform folks. If you can adequately answer this, I’ll admit I’m completely wrong. :)

Here’s the question: why is a uniform policy superior to actual enforcement of a dress code?

Seems to me like the problem is the adults at the schools didn’t want to enforce the dress code, and uniform policy is the lazy way out.

Shannon, M.Div.

December 23rd, 2009
7:59 am

By the way, “Oh please,” it’s cute how you denigrate my accomplishments. 1420 was a pretty decent SAT score back when it was only two sections.

Resolute

December 23rd, 2009
9:40 am

Carlos – you are so right – I would encourage him to move, then kick Wole butt.

Resolute

December 23rd, 2009
9:41 am

Shannon – 1420 is great – past or present for the 2 sections on SAT

Resolute

December 23rd, 2009
9:44 am

Pity the Fools – I do pity the fools of this county who think just cause they are black officials they can do no wrong, corruption knows no color. But in this instance – Clayton knows corruption.

Black Rain

December 23rd, 2009
10:02 am

Taxpayer – you should not give kudos to the three stooges for leadership – give it to the proper person – Wade Starr. They follow this unelected leader. Observers from outside our county are saying – “Clayton County – there they go again.” Forrest Gump said “Stupid is as stupid does” – our BOC has shown this to be all too true.

So So

December 23rd, 2009
10:14 am

DA – do you advocate the removal of all black Clayton officials? A survey of these would show 90% favor gun control – your pet peeve. Or maybe the forceable removal of all blacks in the county – because 70% are for gun control. Just how far would you take it?

Tamra G.

December 23rd, 2009
10:41 am

Jeff Turner would make a great Commission Chairman. He would demolish that wimp Wole (even with Wade Starr telling him everything that he needs to say). What is Wade Starr’s official job? I hear he is in charge of fleet maintenance. Is this car supervisor running our County? Mr. Bell, what are you allowing to happen to our County? Didn’t you beat Wade Starr very badly when you ran against him? If so, why is Wade Starr running Clayton County?

Mojo Mist

December 23rd, 2009
10:43 am

Shannon,

Great job on the SAT but if you’re still talking about things you did yesterday, you’ve done nothing today. Test scores, degrees, and accolades mean nothing. It’s the road we take to earn them that is most important.

Also, one reason uniforms are superior is identification such as with non-students and gangs. Uniforms help administrators and teachers know who should and shouldn’t be on campus and provides a first line of defense. Your school (Lovejoy) had serious problems with this a few years ago.

Lovejoy

December 23rd, 2009
10:54 am

@Shannon to answer your question

The uniform policy is the dress code…if you can’t regulate khakis and a golf shirt…how can you regulate how tight jeans should be….how low can they hang? What is too much clevege?

Its a dress code…follow rules……are u gonna protest the baggy pants thing and see its a violation of your right to freedom of expression? If you have a job you have an office dress code….the lesson here is FOLLOWING RULES. Maybe when the vast MAJORITY of students can pass a competency test they will have some leverage to make demands.

Lovejoy

December 23rd, 2009
10:58 am

@Shannon and any other anti uniform person.

Do you guy remember the Jonesboro dance troop mess? A lap dance at a highschool basketball game…..THE KIDS DON’T HAVE ANY COMMON SENSE OR DISCRETION. Thats why you need rules…to some what keep them in order. They will come to school naked if you didn’t say anything. Why do private schools enforce uniforms? Its a form of discipline.
The uniforms are equivalent to a dress code…so if 1500 students don’t want to where uniforms…its safe to say that 1500 student probably wont pull their pants up given the choice.

Lovejoy

December 23rd, 2009
11:03 am

Do you people know how much regular school clothes cost? seen the price of sneakers recently? How about jeans? Its to the point that you have a group known as the blue jean bandits..ripping of stores.

The school uniform is 100 times cheaper than purchasing regular clothes. It makes kids look like kids..not amateur strippers or convicts. You can wear your normal clothes on the weekends and show off at the mall or perhaps every month the school would allow kids to where regular stuff.

If the kids in this county did better scholastically then this would be a non issue. This isn’t the fix for all of the school systems woes…but its a good start.

Straight No Chaser

December 23rd, 2009
11:06 am

@DA the reason why your posts were removed is because they looked like money shots from a porn movie after you heard the news about Turner. A little premature on the rejoicing huh?

Resolute

December 23rd, 2009
11:12 am

Funny – I have watched this blog closely since 9 pm last night – most are still there – if your posts were removed maybe it was for their insignificance.

T G

December 23rd, 2009
11:20 am

The Atlanta Police Department is looking for a new Chief.. Please take Eldgin Bell back.. He is a fraud and a phony… First Vic Hill, which I am not a fan of, and now Jeff Turner… HMMMMMMMM..

So So

December 23rd, 2009
11:25 am

Hey Pity – DA can answer the question right here. It is obvious his website still leaves him plenty of spare time. Tt is a little over the top tho.

Downtown

December 23rd, 2009
11:29 am

Bell and Edmundson – we thought at least you two could think for yourelves. We know the other three are in someones hip pocket. So are we now to get another official beholding to Wade and Wole. Sad situation.

Rev Billy Bob Whiskey

December 23rd, 2009
11:34 am

Hey John – you and Glen on vacation. I miss you both.
JT meet Wade Starr — each manipulators in their own right.

What You Talking Bout

December 23rd, 2009
11:39 am

All of you (Whining) people will never learn! You can’t have everything your bigotted pink way all the time. Stop the hate! Our educated elected officials know Turner is no-good! Replace him immediately, if not sooner! School uniforms are for the pleasure of the scary pinkos; who say can’t trust those kids, to them three HS basketball players walking home from practice is a gang. C-Tran will survive– believe me. Its 2010; its a new day!

Claytonian

December 23rd, 2009
11:49 am

Speak for yourself, I for one never thought Bell or Edmondson were capable of independent thought. They’re just outnumbered is all.

Jackie

December 23rd, 2009
12:12 pm

Requiring students to wear uniforms is a good policy. Let’s face it, most of the students in Clayton County don’t have a clue about what appropriate dress is. The younger girls dress like future strippers, and the younger boys dress like thugs in training. I blame the parents because they purchase the clothes. Little boys have no business wearing braids and earrings to school. What kind of values are our parents teaching their children. Parents cannot go to the CCDC and demand that their children wear street clothes, so why do they insist on violating school policies?

While they are wasting their time on trivial issues, they need to be working with their children so that they will pass the CRCT. Clayton County is in danger of being taken over by the state if the county fails to make AYP. Clayton County BOE is not concerned about the students. The BOE and the central office personnel are only concerned about playing politics. Maybe being taken over by the state wouldn’t be such a bad thing at all.

Say not to CTRAN.

Jackie

December 23rd, 2009
12:16 pm

Eldrin Bell needs to go back to Atlanta or to a retirement home. Whichever comes first.

Pity The Fools In CC

December 23rd, 2009
12:19 pm

So So : “Hey Pity – DA can answer the question right here. It is obvious his website still leaves him plenty of spare time. Tt is a little over the top tho.”

So So; There is no guarantee that Double A would be able answer your question without it being deleted by the moderators of this forum.

Pity The Fools In CC

December 23rd, 2009
12:22 pm

So So : “Hey Pity – DA can answer the question right here. It is obvious his website still leaves him plenty of spare time. Tt is a little over the top tho.”

So So; There is no guarantee that Double A would be able answer your question without it being deleted by the moderators of this forum.

This second time I had to this message, I only hope that it goes through this time.

Shannon, M.Div.

December 23rd, 2009
12:41 pm

Mojo Mist, if you read all my posts, you’ll know that the only reason I’m talking about what I did in high school is because… we’re talking about high school. My basic point is that when I was in high school, I did pretty well–but if I had been dealing with a uniform policy, I’d have been fighting that rather than focusing on my academics. Didn’t like stupid rules then, don’t much care for ‘em now.

Mojo, gang identification is a serious problem, but I’d ban the relevant colors before I went to uniforms. (There used to be a word for countries that dressed up their students in uniforms to receive instruction… oh, right, fascist. I remember seeing students in school when I was in Cuba a few years ago). As regards people who are on campus and shouldn’t be, why should the students be punished for a security issue? Tighten the penalties for anyone caught on campus and you’ll see far fewer folks sneaking in.

Lovejoy, wouldn’t the students be better served to learn how to dress by being given freedom within rules? They aren’t learning anything by being in uniforms, but they could seriously learn something if the prior dress code were enforced. Before I was at Lovejoy, I was at a private school with skirt length rules. Very simple: if you were wearing a skirt, there was a length above the knee that it was required to be. If a student’s skirt was too short, parents were called to pick up the student. That’s far more educational than simply specifying what is to be worn.

If there’s a baggy pants rule, then students whose pants are hanging below a specified area are sent home. I’m certainly NOT saying that the school shouldn’t have a dress code. The whole uniform debacle is occurring because the schools *did* have a dress code–one which they failed to enforce. I say before going to uniforms, they ought to have enforced that existing policy. Uniforms are *not* equivalent to a dress code. A dress code sets boundaries within which one has freedom.

It’s a truth of our society that some people are wealthier than others. Best to adjust to it when one is a youth rather than try to pretend it doesn’t exist. In fact, wealth is a strong motivator for people to learn–so they can get a better job in order to (among other things) dress better. The Republicans & Libertarians among you ought to be especially swayed by this argument.

But the bottom line for me is two truths. First, the jury is out on the research; it is not a settled question as to whether uniforms are helpful. Second, this is a stupid issue that distracts students away from what is important–academics. Sitting in a sea of boring neutral colors during class is not going to help anybody learn to think creatively.

Nobleblue32

December 23rd, 2009
12:57 pm

I’ve purchased a home in CC in 2001 and have seen my property value drop consistently even though I live in a so called good community near Lake Spivey. I can honestly say that I’m so glad I recently received a promotion and will be relocating (I know I couldn’t sell my house if I were to remain here). After this experience I’ve learned alot and will seek residence in the best school district of my new city. I thought that CC would be a progressive place to live when I first moved here but it’s nothing close to it….where are all of the wealthy folks that live on/in the Lake Spivey area and surrounding communities? A bunch of their houses are up for sale on Georgia MLS as well so I guess they are ready to leave the county as well? There are a plenty of very well educated folks in CC but for the most part it seems that we’re too busy raising our kids, participating their events (School, Cub/Girl Scouting, Coaching their sporting events), furthering our education, and working to attend the board meetings. I guess the demise of the county is partially our fault for not being more involved. One of the major concerns that I see is that CC is still divided among racial lines and it will never prosper until folks just accept people for who they are. If you want to go get a gun permit (which I did) and carry a gun, then good for you; and if you don’t good for you as well. My kids are in elementary school and wear the uniforms which makes our expenses for clothing lower. I have no problem with uniforms and my kids are at the top of their respective classes. Overall the entire county is bad. What makes it bad is the folks who move in and rent houses and have no respect for the neighborhood, the lack of upscale housing for successful folks, and the BOC/BOE issues that always seem to be the “top” story on the local news. I was shocked when I turned on the news yesterday. I guess CC will continue to be more of the same…..glad I was blessed with an opportunity to leave!!

Nobleblue32

December 23rd, 2009
1:18 pm

glad I will be relocating from CC very soon….how else could I get rid of my house which has lost value consistently since I had it built in 2001….I will do my research about the demographics of the new area I’m moving (especially the school system) this time.

watchingfromsidelines

December 23rd, 2009
1:52 pm

the people working for the county know that wade starr is still mad at chief turner because starr got a ticket for parking in the handicapp space. he kept saying he would park where he wanted to park…! is wade starr above the law??? is he the chief potentate of clayton county??? yeah…you put wole ralph in charge of county and then it really wade starr in control because he control wole ralph gail hamrick and sonna sigleton!!! is this county clayton wade starr county??? is wade still mad about the land deal for drew high school??? he was cut out of any real estate commission right???? people working for the county know whatr is going on…wade starr using his influence with the three amigos to get his way. he still mad at chief turner. alex cohilas just is a goofus…little boy for wade starr. yes!!! jeff turner for clayton county commission chief. don’t give up chief!!! we are with you!!!

Taxpayer

December 23rd, 2009
2:02 pm

As a taxpayer for more than 20 years, I am absolutely livid about the costly judgments I will have to pay because of the behavior of a few officers and a chief who couldn’t manage his department. What is even more upsetting is that this chief lives in Henry County, and will not contribute to the cost of these judgments.I am LIVID!!! Give the man due process and let’s move on with cleaning up this county!!

To Chief Turner and all other new managers, let me give you a word of advice. When you assume the responsibility of an agency or company, ALWAYS conduct an audit to assess operations and finances. When you fail to that, you own all of the problems the organization brings. You can’t come back three years later and say the problems were there when you took over. YOU own those problems.

Chief Turner, do us a favor and accept the new position and retain your dignity. Allow this county to have a chief who understands and knows how to lead, has a track record of TRULY reducing ALL crime; who lives in Clayton; etc. Give us what you have in Henry County, which is a police department that is proactive and welll-managed.

Again, thank you Wole, Sonna and Gail and all others who have made a very difficult decision to LEAD. It may be months or years before people understand the wisdom of your decision. But stand strong, even if it means you stand alone. When you choose to lead, there is always the risk that you may have to stand alone. Please know that there are many who support you.

I'm Not Fooled By You

December 23rd, 2009
2:45 pm

Don’t be fooled by ‘Taxpayer’ and her other Anti-Chief Turner, Pro three amigos (Wole, Sonia, Gail)propaganda personas. It’s none other than Synannon Baldwin, CCHOWA. LOL!

Taxpayer

December 23rd, 2009
3:27 pm

My fellow Clayton Taxpayers,

Please be aware of the anti-intellectual sub-culture that permeates our county. When forced to consider the issues, they resort to name-calling and intentionally maligning people.

It is past time that those who came to Clayton as part of the “Bright Flight” begin to speak up. You all know the saying, if you don’t speak up, the village idiot will.

And by the way, I am not anti-Turner. I support competent leadership.

Turn around

December 23rd, 2009
3:42 pm

Bright Flight to Clayton County ? Who are you kidding? The dumbing down of Clayton has been going on since the Olympics came to Atlanta 15 years ago and the Great black leaders of Atlanta decided to push all the bloack folk in the projects out – and into Clayton. The Bright Flight from Clayton has been going on that same amount of time. The Brighter ones left early.

So So

December 23rd, 2009
3:45 pm

i am just saying you continue to post – even tho you cry about being blacklisted. I do commend you on the website you run. looks well organized and thought out.

Carlos

December 23rd, 2009
4:56 pm

Well said Taxpayer! Ditto on every single point.

SynamonSays!

December 23rd, 2009
5:03 pm

Hey, I am not fooled by you,
I blog under my own name. If you want to have some real dialogue on the subject tune into my show, Saturday night at 7pm. SynamonSays! Go to http://www.newroadsvideo.com and view some of my archived shows. You can see and hear what SynamonSays!

Righteousness is always Wrong

December 23rd, 2009
6:25 pm

Everybody needs to step back and observe what is truly going on in Clayton County. It is sad that the people of Clayton County has to pay for the actions of a few. If the CC have justifable reasons to remove Chief Turner then they should. They should all vote and do what they feel is right not what someone else want them to do. We must realize that We all will be Judged by God for what we do so, we should be mindful in accussing people of illegal and wrongful acts against another. They all must realize that we all live in glass houses and that Glass do break so they must be careful with their actions. I pray that the elected officials of CCounty and around the world will do the Right thing. Righteousness is and should be the way. They all goes to Church and say that they know God – then they all should respect each other and do what is Right for this County. God is watching and that is who they will give an account too. So, to the people of CCounty pray for your Leaders and when its time to cast your vote vote for the person of your choice. It is your Right.
Merry Christmas – Love your Neighbor and Pray for Your Enemy

watchingfromsidelines

December 23rd, 2009
6:51 pm

taxpayer is alex cohilas just getting on here to protect wade starr and the 3 amigos on the boc. alex talks about “owning” the problem and so forth. sounds just like a bureaucrat!!! how did alex become fire chief??? he was just some rabble roising union man who was a sgt or lt and jumped all the way up to chief. alex will you “own ” up to a behind-the-closed-doors “deal” made among commissioners for you to become the fire chief??? it was worse deal cutting than barack obama and harry reed!!!! now alex is wade starr’s waterboy. wade starr is mad at chief turner and is determined to fire him. we the real taxpayers who live here will remember how wade starr has been the pupiteer and controls the three amigos on the board…eespcially wole ralph!!!

Insider

December 23rd, 2009
7:02 pm

I’m Not Fooled By You

I think you are correct. I wonder what interest she has in this with Wade Starr? She has no authority in this county, but she thinks she does. She is nothing but a failing group leader. Her members are leaving in droves from foreclosures.

Pity The Fools In CC

December 23rd, 2009
7:03 pm

I can see what Double A was about; There people talking about everything under the sun here.

So So; DA told me that he would be more than happy to talk to you by going into the Visitors message boards. You don’t have to be member there. So long.

Merry Christmas Everyone !!!!

Insider

December 23rd, 2009
7:54 pm

Who cares about Double Action and his crappy forum? No one!

Taxpayer

December 23rd, 2009
8:21 pm

Sorry — I am an independent thinker, with emphasis on the word “thinker.” And yes, many of those who came as part of “Bright Flight” are gone. But you would be surprised at how many remain. Unfortunately, we’re too quiet. We get together at our children’s private schools, but rarely get together to discuss issues where we live. We have been complicit in allowing the village idiots to determine our agenda. That needs to end TODAY.

And who is Synannon Baldwin? Sorry, I am not a bureaucrat, just a lover of books who is an avid reader. You should try it. Pick up a book on management and leadership. Read it and then let’s have an intelligent coversation. Or, you can continue to throw out names and insults. It’s certianly your call.

Pity The Fools In CC

December 23rd, 2009
8:38 pm

Hey Insider; Enough is Enough. You know that Double A is forbidden for posting on this site, but yet you want persist in back stabbing him. He was right about you being a back stabbing coward.

“Who cares about Double Action and his crappy forum? No one!”

There are total of “429″ members, who might disagree with you.

watchingfromsidelines

December 23rd, 2009
11:08 pm

i have wrote books on managment and leadershp. “certianly” i speak on syana mon’s forum and u don’t even no her. for shame alex cohilas…wade starr “do boy”..

watching from the press box

December 23rd, 2009
11:15 pm

watchingfromsidelines,

Your editor must be thrilled with the work you save them.

Time for the Shoe to Fall

December 23rd, 2009
11:21 pm

DoubleAction,

Spongebob Squarepants has more followers than you. 427 members is nothing especially when 410 no longer post there.

SynamonSays!

December 23rd, 2009
11:47 pm

Insider at least spell my name right. Stop the stupidity and lets have constructive dialogue. Your insidious remarks reveal your obvious lack of knowledge and attempts to marginalize homeowners.

Resolute

December 24th, 2009
12:11 am

Funny how a “blacklisted” blogger still blogs with impunity.

Concerned

December 24th, 2009
4:22 am

Just wanted to put this out there. If the kids had decided to push the envelope again and not come in uniform dress. Who was suppose to watch them? Each school had an average of about 200 kids who didn’t come in uniform dress last time. If the same number of kids did the same thing who was going t stay with them after school. remeber it was a furlow day for the teachers on the last day! It was only a half dau of school. That leaves only the admin to watch kids. Was central office going to dispatch people to each school to watch the kids?

Just a question.

Taxpayer

December 24th, 2009
7:45 am

Apologies for the typos — didn’t have my glasses on. That’s “conversation” and “certainly”. Thanks watchingfromsidelines. Now, explain your typos. “I have wrote” and “don’t even no.”

Bless your heart, you are an author. And obviously, Wade Starr gets under your skin.

It’s a shame that the conversation has shifted from the 12 findings reported in the audit (some of which could cost the county millions AND drive county insurance costs up when we have no EXTRA money) to focus on Wade Starr. You and the people who speak for Turner villified Victor Hill for costing this county millions for his incompetence and arrogance, but you want to give Turner a break. If the findings are true, he deserves the same treatment that Victor received, which is removal from the position. With Victor, voters removed him. With Turner, we should expect the people we elected to office to fulfill their fudiciary responsbility and act in this county’s best interest. He would be employed as the director of training and will be given an opportunity to complete his career with the county. That is more than some people who have been accused of far less have received. Turner IS a decent man, but this is about the ability to lead, not personality or people’s fondness for a decent man. We should all stop getting emotional about business decisions. It’s why our county schools are so jacked up!

My final comment.

Have a wonderful holiday with your families everybody.

Nemesis

December 24th, 2009
8:21 am

SIGH……… I see where Double Action keeps saying he is banned from this site. But then he posts again and again and again spewing his garbage like the hate filled bigot that he is. He wants people to go to his forum I just want to know Why would any sane person go there when they have to wade through so much of his trash on here. When he was on the “Boot” We had to scroll down through his posts to get to the interesting material that others were saying.. All I can say is if he were an Honest man he would no longer post when he promises that ‘This is my last post’. Oh well it shows everybody what his word is worth By the way has anybody else realized that Pity The Fools In CC is also Double action? .

i like to watch

December 24th, 2009
8:47 am

this is to the idiot calling everyone a pinko. how you gonna get to work cleanin them buildings when they shut down c tran …..fool

Jill again...

December 24th, 2009
10:50 am

Taxpayer (Alex Cohilas): Come on, now, Alex. We all know who you are. We remember when you (and Wade Starr, for that matter) flirted with the Republican Party in the 1980s and the 1990s. You ran against one of our favorite incumbents, Frank Bailey, and Frank wore you out. I think that you ran again, but, to tell you the truth, you were so non-threatening to us that we didn’t take you seriously. We well remember when Wade Starr was all in the newspaper because of his snuggling up with the Republicans here in Clayton…with the likes of Johnny White and Jim Burton. I think that Wade even served on the GOP Executive Committee. Now we see that you two Republicans are running (and ruining?) our county. Well, I suppose that if you cannot get control through one door, you go around to another door or force yourselves through a window.

I remember when we (and I say “we” meaning those of us who were raised in the County and never left; for the record, my husband and I graduated from Forest Park High when Mr. Stroud was the principal there and Milton McDonald was the football coach — Milton’s son, by the way, did a great job coaching the Newnan Cougars to the semis this year) were upset when Charley and his gang took out Chief Parker in the early eighties. You wouldn’t have been able to find a finer man than Chief Parker. But, they gave him another “job” like you and Wade are trying to do to Chief Turner. Jeff Turner is also one of the “good guys” like Chief Parker. This is about power and control. It was about power and control back then too. Ronnie Clackum was brought over to be the new chief. Again, this is about control. The word among my acquaintances is that Wade Starr is mad at Chief Turner because he apparently got ticketed for parking in a Handicapped parking place. I hear that he was warned repeatedly but his response was, “I’ll park wherever I want to park.” Hooray for Chief Turner’s police force for treating everyone equitably! No one — even Wade Starr — is not above the law.

“No good deed goes unpunished,” as the saying goes. I guess Chief Jeff Turner is being punished for treated all citizens equitably. Chairman Bell, I applaud you for insisting on due process being followed. We are neighbors. (My family does not live in North Shore but around the corner. We moved to Jonesboro in the early 1970s, and my mother is still living in the same house in Forest Park.) Please, Chairman Bell, do not fall for Wade and Alex’s (oh, I forgot, Alex, that I am actually addressing this to you in second person) nefarious schemes. I can’t believe that they had the nerve to actually dump the “decision” in your lap, trying to make you the “fall guy.” I suppose that Alex had gotten himself one of those internet degrees in “Organization,” and no one can tell him anything. You can’t tell the “nouveau[ly]” educated anything. I guess that Alex was hanging out with “cold-blooded lawyers” (at Parks, Chesin & Walbert where he moonlighted as an “investigator”) for too long. This firm sought in Federal Courts to overturn many progressive gains by minorities (e.g., admission policies at UGA and the U. S. Congressional map). A leopard can’t change its spots. This move on Chief Jeff Turner is not so much a move by Chairman Eldrin Bell or the three little commission “stooges” (the ones who are willingly manipulated by Alex and Wade), but about power and control obviously desired by “Republicans” Wade Starr and Alex Cohilas. Wade controls you, Alex (see, I switched back to second person; forgive my constant changes because I know that you are a grammatical and syntactical genius), and he controls “his” three votes on the Commission. I can’t believe that the Commission could actually make the Board of Education look so sane. LOL.

Chairman Bell: We have elected you twice to lead our county. Please stand up to Wade and Alex’s (note, Alex, that I used only one apostrophe since the action connotes joint action on the part of you and Wade; this is rule, dear one — and unlike “watchingfromthesidelines,” I actually taught Englisn on the university level for years) determination to move this county away from a democracy to an oligarchy. I know that Chief Turner has retained two of the County’s finest lawyers, Steve Frye and Keith Martin to defend him against Alex’s public smearing of him. Any police department will have some things “out of order.” This is the nature of a big organization. Not everything that goes awry within a large organzation can be put at the feet of a chier, or a CEO, or a superintendent. You shouldn’t fire a superintendent just because an employee has been acused of sexual harassment. But, let’s not go there lest I step on toes.

I hope that everyone has a festive Holiday Season! Merry Christmas to all and to all a good day! Cheers to you, Chief!

DA Smackdown

December 24th, 2009
11:44 am

Check out the Google Fight!!!

http://tiny.cc/2VDNi

(Press “make a fight” button once there)

Nuff said