Hi Henry,
I am interested in knowing how local businesses are dealing with the changes in the economy. A list of businesses that are downsizing, and even hiring. I , also, want to know which local businesses are giving back to the community or celebrating the loyalty of its customers. I think that this will be a great informative blog.
Listen to salesmen much? Real estate agents always think it is a great time to buy.
I’m dubious as to a rebound anytime soon. Wasn’t there an article just last week stating that there is
a 3 year oversupply of condos in Atlanta? Foreclosures are still going up, credit is still tight and the jobs market now considers it a good news when we only lose less jobs than we did last month.
It seems to me the whole economy of the last 8 years was a fake based on oversupply of loose credit. The oversupply of credit caused housing prices to skyrocket, which led to many people borrowing against their properties for items like new cars, and other big purchases based on the fact that it was free money to them since their houses were now worth so much more than they paid for it. Everyone thought if I just buy a house it will be worth twice as much in 5 years, so why not spend that money I am going to make.
Condos are always a volatile investment. We can not predict the future based on condos. However, we can determine our future based on decreased inventory, housing affordability index, population growth, and unemployment. We have decreasing unemployment, a record high affordability index, declining inventories, and our population is growing. I am a 3rd generation R.E. investor, have been in the bus. for over 10 yrs,and stayed out of the Atlanta Market my entire career(properties in the Carolinas). My portfolio is still doing well. However, Atlanta is looking attractive. A rule of thumb, when you look at a property and wonder how your neighbors can afford it, run. Home values are always tied to employment and salaries.
FYI-not that you might be interested in data accuracy, but it might be useful to know that the consumer confidence index is based on a sample of 5,000 households.
That’s to gauge the confidence level of the entire country.
I’ve seen Steve Palm’s prognostications of housing optimism pop up twice in the AJC in the past week. However, I’m not sold. I have several reservations about his claims. Perhaps, my problems are really due to the lack of information presented by the AJC. However, I think the following issues are worth considering when you hear the bottom calls from the real estate industrial complex:
First, Steve Palm’s SmartNumbers, according to its own website, sells “residential real estate information, analysis and forecasting for brokers, builder/developers, and mortgage and banking professionals.” There’s nothing wrong with that, but it’s quite likely that Palm falls into the trap of rooting for his clients to do well so that they will have the resources to continue to pay for his services. This the same phenomenon you see with the perma-bulls on CNBC.
Second, I would find Palm’s certainty more convincing if there was more color given on what he means by the $10,000 rise in April home prices. Seasonality plays a big part in real estate sales volume and to a lesser extent in sale prices. Go look at the charts on Calculared Risk’s blog for reference. Specifically, the spring buying season always shows improvement over the winter months. However, that does not mean the market has turned. That’s why year-over-year comparisons are thought by many to be more accurate.
Third, a big problem with Palm’s claim that February was the bottom due to the $10,000 uptick in sales price is that it’s quite possible for the median sales price to go up due to changes in the relative sales ratio of lower priced, mid-priced, and high-end homes.
For example, if in February, ten homes that once sold for $125,000 a piece were resold for $100,000 each, the resulting median sales price would be $100,000. Then, if in April, five homes that were once $125,000 each were resold for $100,000 each while another five homes that were once $150,000 each were resold for $120,000, the resulting median sales would be $10,000 higher than February. However, that median price would mask a noteworthy decline of 20% in home prices.
The above example is why the S&P/Case-Shiller Home Price Indices are probably a better indicator than Steve Palm lets on. The S&P/Case-Shiller Home Price Indices are compiled by measuring the change in resell prices for the same homes over many decades. Thus, the index uses exact comps for measuring home prices not a constantly changing, seasonally influenced mix of different houses.
As far as quoting actual real estate agents for an assessment of the housing market, I can only assume the AJC was doing this for the sake of irony.
The bottomline is that even if February was the bottom and the housing market has picked up, real estate markets do not bounce back with V-shaped recoveries like the recent stock market rally. It’s highly likely that prices will stay this depressed for some time to come. Furthermore, Atlanta’s median prices are back to year 2000 levels. On a chronological basis, that’s among the worst for the top 20 MSAs. Ouch.
There is no doubt Neville turned things around at Coke. And his greatest legacy will be the organization he left. I don’t know where you find another Don Keough but that’s exactly what Muhtar needs. Just study Don’s style and performance and PUT THE GUY IN PLACE ASAP so Muhtar can be CEO and not President. The test will be to see if Muhtar learned from Neville to manage his ego. He had the best teacher.
I’m suppose to believe a real estate agent’s anecdotal and single data point opinion?
I’m suppose to believe Palm because he emphatically says “oh, I know it because I know it?. Hey. Mr. Smart Numbers, how about some data to back up your bold assertion.
Case/Shiller is actual data that gives evidence. The other points of view are uncorroborated opinions aka crap.
Henry – Congrats on the new blog and thanks for covering our meeting this week. We’re pleased to hold the meeting right here in Atlanta again for the 3rd year in a row.
We are aware of the concerns raised by International Rivers and I would like to be clear on this for your readers – we are not a party to this issue. They have suggested that we should take a position on a proposed Hydro electric dam in Chile; a matter which needs to be solved by the citizens of Chile and their government. Certainly we take seriously our ability to affect change by doing the right thing in the communities where we do business. We have, in fact, played a key role in previous timber disputes in Chile.
However, in this matter, The Home Depot has no role to play or influence to exert. First, we do not buy any wood within 1,000 miles of this region. The organizations involved in this situation are not directly involved in harvesting any of the wood we purchase and the companies that we do purchase from are in full compliance with our strict wood purchasing policy (http://www.homedepot.com/environment).
The only connection we have to this issue is that the president of our supplier’s parent company owns shares, along with his family, in one of the companies that would work on the project. This puts us several steps away from any ability to affect change, if any were warranted.
We understand that International Rivers, based out of Berkeley, California, needs a high profile company to heighten the awareness of their campaign and we sincerely hope that a sustainable solution is possible. Unfortunately we don’t think it’s our place to weigh in on an issue that we have no expertise or influence over.
This matter is about the future supply of electricity to the citizens of Chile. It is our understanding that the Chilean government is sorting through a variety of options in an effort to determine its future electricity sources, and this decision is best made by the country and its citizens.
I look forward to seeing you tomorrow and hearing your thoughts on our meeting.
First time I checked in- nice blog entry, and getting HD to comment right off. Sure beats the heck out Let’s Shop For the Bomb Shelter Oliver’s column, er, rant.
PRESS RELEASE:
Home Depot has Earth First! activists arrested for action against dams in Patagonia
Denver, CO– Two Earth First! activists were arrested at a Home Depot this morning in Glendale. The arrests followed a banner being hung off the roof of a Home Depot store reading “Dam Home Depot, NOT Patagonia!” Supporters of the arrested activists demand that Home Depot cut all ties and voice their opposition to this project at tomorrows corporate shareholders meeting tomorrow in Atlanta, Georgia.
The banner-drop action was intended to remind both the public and the company: “We’ve fought The Home Depot before and won.” Almost ten years ago, Earth First! groups around the country joined with Rainforest Action Network and others forced Home Depot to adopt wood product policies that removed old growth from their shelves. But their involvement in the HidroAysen project in Patagonia, Chile shows their commitments to ‘green business’ practices looking a lot like empty Public Relations.
International Rivers, an organization working to protect rivers and defend the rights of communities that depend on them, explains that:
The HidroAysen project involves 3 dams on the Pascua River and 2 dams on the Baker River that would flood globally rare forest ecosystems and some of the most productive agricultural land in the Aysen region. Electricity from these dams would be sent thousands of kilometers north to serve Chile’s biggest cities and its mammoth copper industry. More than 1,500 miles of transmission lines would require one of the world’s longest clearcuts–much of it through untouched temperate rainforests found nowhere else on the planet. US retailer The Home Depot is the largest buyer of timber products from the main Chilean interest promoting the dams. The Home Depot has been asked by thousands of people, including socially responsible investors, to stop buying timber from suppliers that plan to destroy the rivers and forests of Patagonia.
According to Ron DeFeo of Home Depot (from a blog post this morning): “we don’t think it’s our place to weigh in on an issue that we have no expertise or influence over.” While DeFeo denies the company’s involvement and refuses to accept the research of International Rivers, his blog post admits that “the president of our supplier’s parent company owns shares, along with his family, in one of the companies that would work on the project.”
Earth First!, which is more of a movement than an organization, has autonomous groups around the world who target corporations that are responsible for devastating the planet. The movement currently has a national Roadshow crossing the country to mobilize people to take action against companies like Home Depot, which is currently featured on their website http://www.earthfirstroadshow.wordpress.com
I will always shop with those who groups like Earth First protests. I encourage everyone to shop at Home Depot, better yet, shop at a locally owned non big box type home improvement store. Support your neighbors business first.
I also strive to have the largest carbon footprint possible just to spite those who belong to the global warming/climate change cult.
Remember folks. Grill out often. Use charcoal. Fill your tank at noon. Remember..it is the SUN that causes global warming. Not much we can do about that.
Oh yeah !! HomeDepot spokespeople have a lot of credibility ( NOT ). If there is ANY source of ANY product they can obtain that’s a fraction of a penny cheaper they will purchase it for resale. The HomeDepot creed:” Buy low Sell VERY HIGH- Screw the planet and especially the consumer” Now, in fairness, this policy is possibly nnot written but it is certainly demonstrated in their business practice. Boycott HomeDepot and support your local lumber yard and neigborhood hardware.
I am going to act like a liberal! There should be a law to recover all expenses but perceived damages over groups like the ACLU, abortion rights activist, gay activists, and the International Rivers. Make the law not ambiguous and simple.
Is some tree-hugger activist-type gonna climb a construction crane at HD headquarters again and drop a HUGE banner over I-285 about this timber issue… like they did a few years back? Hope so! That will make some good YouTube video nowadays.
Jess – you’re talking about something you know nothing about. Take you head out of your a$$. Yes Home Depot buys low and sells very high (NOT). Please go to your local hardware store and you will see their prices are much higher than Home Depot’s. Your logic is very skewed.
I read with eager anticipation the blog about the potential action by International Rivers.
What I find curious is that Home Depot has these canned positions about the environment that fall short of making any real change. Why does not anyone question Home Depot on the materials that they are selling that are cut from the rainforests of the world only to make a buck.
Golden Ply is one of their materials where the face and back veneer originates from illegally harvested sources in Myanmar. Or how about the 5.2mm Lauan they sell day after day where the face veneer is still harvested from the rain forests. I wish someone would ask Mr. DeFeo to comment on the sources of these two products.
Home Depot has made some inroads but their policies and their actual sources are in conflict with one another. Home Depot is still the greatest proliferators of rainforest destruction in the world and for what…….some hyperbole and to make a quick buck from the death of a resource we will never replace.
Home Depot needs to drop the rhetoric and step up and lead like they used to when the founders were at the helm……
I applaud the AJC for delving into this issue in order that their readership be informed about the Patagonia Dams controversy and the relationship that The Home Depot continues to maintain with the Chilean interests that are promoting the damming of wild rivers in Chile’s Patagonia.
By misrepresenting the role that their supplier (CMPC/Matte Group) has in the Patagonia Dams controversy, The Home Depot continues to do a disservice to their customers and, most importantly in this instance, to their shareholders.
The main Chilean partner in the Patagonia Dam joint-venture scheme known as HidroAysén is called Colbún. Colbún owns 49% of HidroAysén (Enel, an Italian energy multi-national corporation, controls the other 51%). The Home Depot supplier Matte Group (CMPC) is considered the “de-facto” owner of Colbún, with a 49% percent share and control of the board of directors.
This economic relationship ties customers of The Home Depot to the proposal to destroy rivers and forests in Chile’s Patagonia, and is clearly contrary to The Home Depot’s stated commitment to help their customers be environmentally conscious shoppers.
A fundamental element to being an environmentally conscious shopper is to know where the consumer dollar is going — and in this case the money that Home Depot customers are spending on wood products from their Chilean suppliers is going to corporate coffers that are working to destroy rivers and flood forests found nowhere else on the planet.
We encourage The Home Depot to take advantage of this opportunity to demonstrate their commitment to a rigorous definition of environmental and corporate responsibility by severing their relationship with the Matte Group/CMPC, and/or by using their influence to help protect pristine river ecosystems in one of the Earth’s last wild places.
Smart numbers data may be technically accurate in the sense that they track all sales, but unless they are able to control for changes in the types, sizes, and condition of houses being bought, they cannot say a whole lot about changes in the value of the typical house. Case Shiller does do this. Comparing simple medians or averages does not tell you how YOUR house price is likely to change. If bigger houses were sold this month than last, medians or averages would show an increase in “price” but that would not mean much.
woo hoo reading for information and basic math.. how about a real job incentive program.. not going behind the public schools where they were left behind.. Another phony solution by Sonny Phony and Thurmond Phony..
It hasn’t helped me yet! I’m 60 and no one will hire me even though I’m at the platinum level. Hum-m-m-m-m-m not sure what good it is other than giving the test takers a job and the rest of us false hope.
Bob Nardelli is an idiot. As a former GE employee (under Nardelli’s rule), I know that he ruined that company in his time there and he did the same to Home Depot. No sympathy for Home Depot, they put this moron in control and got what they deserved. I am surprised that they are still in business at all.
I just can’t beleive anyone hired him after that debacle. Oh wait, it was Chrysler, now it all makes sense. When Detroit is faced with options, they automatically go for the worst one.
smoke and mirrors for everyone I guess that was the true promise made to everyone by our politicians. I couldn’t pay someone to hire me at this point. I actually got a call for a job that made $5hr for 4 hrs a day when i returned there call they never called back.
he will be hired again. what us stupid middle class americans dont know is that the boards of these large companies all have incestuous relationships. i forgot the website, but it tracked board members and their relationships. it was a shock to see how many boards were run by the same people, either the person themselve, a spouse, a board member of their company, etc. nardelli will get hired again because he is one of them.
you ask: what about the shareholders? give me a break. most of the large fortune 100 companies (which your 401k is likely largely based on) are owned in major part by institutional investors, i.e. companies. guess who sits on their boards? yeah, you got it.
i also would like to get to know more about local companies that are big in their community, hire locally (i.e. dont send jobs out to india), and are good companies. basically, i would like to know who to support.
Hi, Henry. I’d like to read about savvy advertising and PR strategies that are working for Atlanta companies during the downturn – doing more on smaller budgets, brilliant ideas that get big bang for the buck. Ranging from the corner dry cleaner to Coke and UPS.
is he the record holder for biggest severance given to a fired CEO? wasn’t it something like $200M? for being FIRED?
I can somewhat comprehend winning $200M in the lottery, I can NOT comprehend getting paid $200M to do A JOB well but $200M for getting FIRED from a job? I remember reading an interview w/Scott Adams (Dilbert) years ago where he said the thing that amazed him most was that no matter how much hyperbole he tried to use in his strips he’d ALWAYS get email from readers saying: “that’s nothing – this REALLY HAPPENED at my office:”. I have a hard time thinking of a better example…
Nardelli was never a consumer-oriented CEO. He had no clue about running a company almost totally dependent on small consumers. No wonder Chrysler is bankrupt – he was not the right choice to run another consumer oriented company as evidenced by his tenure at Home Depot. Home Depot still has poor service, and I go to Lowe’s whenever possible. Evidently so does everyone else.
Our tax and spend congress needs to pass laws to protect stockholders from Scumbag corporate raiders like Bob Nardelli and their board of director lackeys. No CEO at a publicly traded company should get or is worth more than 5 million dollars a year total compensation including stock options unless they have dramatically increased the stock value and INCREASED the NUMBER OF AMERICAN JOBS. Any severence packages should be based on the same percentage of salary and years of service as the average employee of the corporation unless approved my a majority of the individual stockholders, i.e. institutional investors would have one vote for, not one vote per share. The idea that corporations must offer the present outrageous compensation packages whether the executive grow the companies or lose hundreds of millions of dollars for the stockholders and the economy is ludicrous!
I keep hearing that the luxury travel market is really suffering.
The famed Cloister at SeaIsland is no exception. Rumors abound about it’s future. Anyone out there know what is going on? Thanks.
What the arrogant Prince Nardelli did at HD is not much different than what the dunderheads Allen and Mullin did at Delta. Very little regard for customer service, a hallmark of each corporation at one time. Let’s hope Messrs. Blake and Anderson can restore some of the past to these two Atlanta institutions.
Gatorman rethink your statement. Do you really want the government involved in private and public held companies any more that they already are. Presbo Obamalama is making decisions for companies as large as GM and he has never held a job in the public sector. Make perfect sense to me.
I hate to say it but Nardummy did not destroy the customer service. The employees did that by their “I don’t care if you find it or not” attitude. Just because you disagree with the management why would you take it out on the people that buy your products and pay your salary????
The entire Home Depot board of directors should have been indicted after the severence bonus they gave him. I sold my stock in protest
and will not do business…..
Hey Voice, if you don’t appreciate the fact that ‘pride’ in your company, your job and your fellow workers is what drives a service-based corporation – or indeed any corporation – then you just don’t get it. When management’s attitude toward employees changes for the worst, employee morale wanes. When employee morale wanes their enthusiasm for the job becomes apparent to all, especially to customers. Nardelli was the epitome of corporate leadership of the past twenty years – top management greed and a laissez-faire mindset that felt ‘not getting caught in a tax dodge was the same thing as not breaking the law in the first place. He never understood what made Home Depot successful, but what bothers me is that Bernie and Arthur didn’t make sure he did before they made him their successor. The one thing that says, at least to me, the most about Nardelli was that he was one of the most successful fund-raisers for Bush/Cheney. As one of their valued Rangers he accumulated tens of millions for the cause – a cause whose business philosophy has gotten us into this mess. Bob Nardelli should be a poster boy for what’s been wrong with US corporations – along with Ken Lay – both of which, by the way were Bush cronies, or perhaps it was the other way around.
I write from Patagonia. As a Chilean I believe The Home Depot cannot avoid the fact that by purchasing products from one of Chile’s largest wood product company, CMPC, they are aiding in the destruction of our country’s remaining wild areas found in Patagonia. In the last 30 years most of our landscapes and ecosystems have been raped by foreign investors, aided by out of control investment laws endorsed by our own government. Corporations from the USA,Canada, Europe, Australia, Japan and other countries come to Chile to exploit our forests, soil, water, minerals and oceans, they directly or indirectly (by partnering with unscrupulous partners in Chile) mine, clear-cut, overfish, pollute, and in general destroy what little is left in terms of natural beauty. As Home Depot buys from powerful local economic groups like the Matte/CMPC conglomerate, they directly facilitate the expansion of these groups into other sectors of our unregulated extractive economy. It is in part Home Depot’s dollars (and other giant retailers) that allow CMPC investment in other companies like Colbun, the chilean energy giant, formerly owned by the state, now in control, along with italian Enel, of the mega dams project which if approved, will forever defaced one of the world’s remaining wilderness areas. We are running out of these areas, and with them hundreds of animal and plant species, magnificent glaciers, native forests, and local communities for years undisturbed and free of the anxieties and materialistic lives the so called “developed world” enjoys today. If the Home Depot is serious about leading the way in the social and enviro responsibility areas, then it should use its powerful influence as one of the world’s giants and tell suppliers like Matte/CMPC to reassess their involvement in destructive practices and projects like the current 2,700 megawatt proposal to dam the unique Baker and Pascua Rivers in Patagonia. Not doing it and still claim they are taking steps to help protect the world’s forests is nothing but bullshit, and in that case US customers should boycott the Home Depot. It’s pretty simple, so as a chilean I ask you americans to put pressure on this and any other companies destroying our “third world” right to clean water and healthy forests, and of course come and visit Patagonia, you won’t be disappointed
You should be ashamed of yourself! What kind of PR hack posts rebuttals in the comments section? Come back on here and defend your position. This debacle is a perfect example of why you should be fired. Spamming the internet should only be left to the professionals like me!
I second that John on Henry. Not only is Henry a great reporter that is acutely aware of the “markets and systems”, (as you are also well aware of John)….But a great family man to.
Man, I bet Chrysler wishes Iacocca had been at the helm the last few years. He pulled them from the brink of disaster back in the 80’s and stood the best chance for a repeat performance.
Thats too bad. Iacocca saved this sorry lot, from themselves, back in the 80’s with the luxurious “K Car” and now they want to treat him in this manner? Well they all must contribute something to the Kitty.
The Big 3 have had this coming for years and its long over due. I for one have would like to wish them ONE AND ALL a Happy *POOT* in the face.
Lee aint gonna being hurtin’….he will just call W and have a helicoptor sent to taxi him around. As for Bob, he can do the same…when you host the President at your $10M Vinings mansion it is safe to say you do not have to fear for anything the rest of your life.
Nardelli ran Home Depot into the ground but walked away with $200 million. For what?? Sweetheart deals like this are why people think there should be limits on what a CEO can make. I disagree with this concept, but guys like Nardelli make it seem appealing! When you take a highly profitable company and run it into the ground like Nardelli did, you’ve got a lot of nerve walking away with that much money. High levels executives like that should be awarded for how much they improve the company!
One cannot help but think that unlike the corporate executives of today, Mr. Iacocca probably understands why he is losing the car and looks at it as a minor inconvenience for the better good of the company.
In Mr. Iacocca’s day, corporate executives were company leaders who understood their role in guiding the company for the good of its consituencies: shareholders, employees and customers.
Nowadays, corporations mostly have greedy short-timers at the helm. Nowadays, corporate executives mostly look for how much money they can strip from the company and put in their own pockets. Rainy day funds have been treated as piggybanks. Now that the rainy day is here, the executives are rich, but the companies are looking for government bailouts.
Mr. Iacocca was someone who understood cars and car companies. We need more leaders like him – people who understand their industry -and fewer greedy bean counters who think that failed stints at electric goods manufacturer and running a previously successful home improvement center into the ground qualifies one to run a car manufacturer.
After having been passed over for the top job at GE, putting HD into intensive care and killing Chrysler, you-know-who probably still be able to get a job running a company. Look how many times that woman from Delta/Mirant has failed, yet still gotten hired in top posts. Corporate boards hire people with failed track records who do not know their specific industries to run companies and then are surprised when the companies fail.
If management would give the union workers more money and benefits, they would make better cars–very simple. Now, there’s little incentive to make high quality cars because the workers know that management is out for themselves, and not the workers and the union.
WTF!!!! Iacocca was the best thing that happened to Chrysler and after reading the autobiography he pulled that company from beyond the brink. They have alot of nerve. Lee they are doing you WRONG!!!!
UAWBlowes. The unions have run the American car companies into the ground. An example is the Jobs Bank. Union workers getting paid top dollar to do absolutely NOTHING. And this is just one example of how the existance of the unions have had a detrimental affect on American car companies.
Don’t blame the CEO’s. Their compensation is just part of the competitive environment. To limit what they make would be the same as socialism. The government SUCKS at doing everything. Why trust them to run one of the world’s biggest businesses. That is asking for disaster!
Union autoworkers were already making good money and benefits and the quality and fuel-efficiency of American automobiles still lags behind foreign cars. Throwing more money and benefits at them won’t solve the problem. Union workers need a reality check. Spend some time working in the real world and you’ll learn how good you’ve got it.
“If management would give the union workers more money and benefits, they would make better cars” Are you kidding me? You want more?? The union’s lazy workers already get paid way too much for doing way too little! The unions have manipulated Chrysler and GM for decades and they can’t turn things around because of the unreasonable things they’ve already agreed to so auto workers will work (which they still don’t). Good riddance to bad rubbish, I say! I love my VW!
Nardelli ran Home Depot into the ground and walked away with millions. He’s running Chrysler into the ground and he will walk away with millions again.
AND GUESS WHAT: SOME OTHER FOOL COMPANY WILL HIRE HIM TO RUN THEM INTO THE GROUND!
The unions are what ran the automakers in the ground. There is no place for unions in modern times. Only the ignorant support unions in this day and age.
That’s pretty sad considering what he did for this company. question?? what are the idiots that drove the company down the drain geting??? hmmmm….golden parachutes???
Did the government and the unions force Chrysler to make crappy, gas guzzling, unreliable cars that have horrible re-sale value? No! Chrysler had this coming for a long time. Let them go under.
UAWRules you have got to be kidding??? Do you actually believe the way to correct the problem is to, Pay the workers more, they will then build better cars? The UAW sure did wonders for Detriot.
And I am completely anti union. The unions were horribly inefficient , and expenses were way over their value,but you have to blame the right people for the current fiasco.
C.M. is correct. The UAW is to blame and until our Illustrious Idiot In Chief fixes the problem the auto industry will go down just like Eastern Airlines did….all because of worthless unions. This will never be fixed due to the Union support of the Democratic party. They will not get rid of their voting block there…hopefully we will see them just go away. They are idiots, and all their jobs will be sent to China and they will be gone due to lack of jobs….serves them right…in the meantime we as a country will suffer!!!
wow, union rules, I cannot believe you seriously mean this. I am also a UAW member, and most of us always said we would rather give something up to keep a job, than more money, and no job. We as union workers have always been proud in our work, have always build what management wanted us to build. Unfortunately we had nothing to do with the designs. I am proud to be a UAW member, proud of my fellow members. Most of us work hard. I am not saying every one does. There are always 5% bad apples in the bunch, that make the other 95% also look bad.
Jimbo…that was lame dude. You should really check your facts before you post…..you come off sounding like an idiot.Ive got a Magnum with 450hp that gets 23mpg on the highway…not too bad dude….My Viper resale hasnt been killed either so what are you referring to????Check the resale on a 5-7yr old Mercedes and tell me what resale sux
Since when did the UAW have the power to deccide what type of cars a company will make? The big three spent YEARS designing and selling cars that did not show wel vs. the competition. They were pushing Hummers and Excursions while Honda and Toyota were making selling tons of Camrys and Accords. To blame the rank and file Union members is just plain silly. Leadership comes from the top and in he case of the Big Three, Top Management drove them to this point!!
To “The Truth”…Limiting the compensation of CEO’s is “socialism”? NO! It’s called capitalism! You get paid what you’re worth! And most of these idiots driving these companies under with their short term thinking should be ousted, not given millions! What the hell did Nardelli know about running a car company? NOTHING! and yet the board of directors hired him! THEY should be the first to be replaced!
If The Union Workers could make better jobs Then.....
May 29th, 2009 12:36 pm
they are jipping every buyer of American cares. A man with any pride
ALWAYS gives 100%.
A union worker ALWAYS looks to screw over everyone while they beg for more.
You are right on target. The UAW has made concessions to help keep the company afloat. To bad they were over 20 years too late. But if you like the idea of secured debtors not being paid fairly and the UAW receiving more (way more) than it should, then you must really love the UAW. Fact is these people in the UAW need the UAW. They have no other skills or abilities to become productive in the real world. The UAW is the private sectors version of welfare. Time for it to go, too many leeches. Investors are bad people. They provide the capital so these leeches can work. UAW is out of touch with the free market and i personally am glad to see it finally starting to fail.
File BR and close the company down, Let go all the workers, Push the Union to the curb, Open back up and hire the employees at normal wages with normal benefits, Throw regulation out the door and start building cars that people can afford with good gas milage.
If the Big Three manufactured cars that everday folk wanted to buy, it wouldn’t have mattered very much if the line employees are UAW or not. Look at the design cycle time – the last time a saw a WSJ article on it, Honda and Toyota run theirs at two to three years, while Detroit was consistently three to five years minimum. That’s a huge difference, and the Unions have virtually nothing to do with it.
Reality Check…your an idiot also…the big 3 spent their time pushing SUVs because thats what was selling….economics 101 you dolt!…The SUVs would have been quite a bit cheaper if they were not paying UAW labor 45 bucks an hour to turn a screw 5 times to the right every 90 seconds….take a look at the most productive auto assembly plant in the US…Toyota plant in Georgetown, Ky…no union labor period…wouldnt even hire anyone with previous auto experience.
It seems Ford has improved and adapted a bit (veering away from the Expedition-type cars). Chrysler and GM on the other hand have been churning out some sho-nuff crap over the last few years. My sister’s 2006 Pacific virtually explored in a little over a year of ownership. The company had to replace her entire engine at the cost of nearly $5000! Also, the vaunted PT Cruiser is considered by many to be the worst of them all with its tiny, under-powered engine and heavy frame. I’m sticking with Honda.
The unions are what has brought these companies to bankruptcy. They get paid very good money but are the laziest workers in the world. Giving them more money will not improve the quality of american cars. American cars are not worth the money you pay for. And, the quality of the car should not determine on how much money a union worker makes. Believe me, they are WAY OVER PAID.
I’m not pro union but these bankruptcies are clearly the fault of management (who caved in to the union’s every demand). Nothing wrong with American workers – they build great Hondas, Mercedes, BMWs and Toyotas. Who designed this Chrysler and GM schlock?
Don’t we think that 15.00 an hour is a little excessive for people with no experience? I was thinking maybe minimum wage. AND day care. We don’t have daycare at my place of employment!
To understand why GM and Chrysler failed and the mentality of Bob Nardelli just look at what MBA programs teach. Think short-term and max profits regardless of customer service, bad resource management(capital, human, etc) and strategic planning for where the company should be in 10 years.
I worked for a bankrupt company in the 90-’s and all the corporate executives after the crap hit the fan, got executive jobs with other fortune 500 companies such as controller, vp, president after posting million dollar deficits for quarters, eventually filing chapter 11 and accusations of fraud when the bankruptcy hearing started.
As for the unions, now is the time to pay the piper. You overpriced yourselves with your union mentality, which lead to loss of market share. You build crappy cars because you thought you worked for UAW and not GM, Chrysler and did poor QOS. Now go ask UAW for a job, you forgot about the customers who are your real boss.
Real apples to apples there dude. You pick the Viper out of all of Chrysler’s cars to talk about their resale value. What about the rest of their crap? Like the Stratus, Sebring, or PT Cruiser, try trading one of those in. I’m not saying all of their cars suck, just most of them.
WHY did Chrysler hire Nardelli? In what way was he more qualified than the other people on the short list? Was it because he only sent ONE company to the brink of Chapter 11 as opposed to the others that sent 2 or 3 to the edge? I OWN a company. There is NO WAY I would hire someone who managed a failed company! NO WAY! But yet these major corporations do it over and over again. Draw from the same pool of losers.
Both sides are seriously to blame. The automakers need to build a better product and unions need to stop leveraging for better pay and benefits. Look around. A lot of people don’t get pensions these days or make the kind of money these workers make for doing far more strenuous and dangerous jobs. They certainly don’t get paid for not working. For the rest of us average Joe’s the only thing remotely close to a pension is called a 401K and we all know how wonderfully they look these days. Let them fail. Do we really need umteen varieties of the same vehicle? See GMC v. Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, Ford, Mercury, Cadillac and the list goes on and on. . Unions were great when they represented the working man for unsafe working conditions (see Coal Miners). They were not created to fatten thy wallet. See UAW. Also I may be mistaken but I don’t believe the foreign manufacturers creating jobs here in this country allow unions…
You all blame the unions, but what product have the big 3 put out that you really really want to buy. In the 1980s, GM had the Trans Am, Grand Am, and nice Buicks. Ford had the Probe in the 90s. Today, they sell boring cars here. The European Ford Focus is beautiful, but we do not get that here.. The Chinese Buick Park Avenue rivals Mercedes, but not available in the US… blame management and marketing…. I am a business major and management clearly failed at all three companies….
I am the last one to defend the dirty unions. However, they didn’t run these companies in the ground.
You learn in business 101 it is poor management decisions. That is like blaming the janitor at the company because it is a mess. Management made the decision to let him get away with it.
Poor management decisions and superior competition ran the auto industry in the dirt.
Americans just don’t want to admit it. If I let my kid run wild, is it my fault or my kids?
Jimbo…i just gave a couple of examples….your examples were on the low end of the spectrum. Going by what you stated, check the resale on a Toyota Tercel, Nissan Sentra. they both really stink….doesnt mean they were terrible cars. Check Mercedes and Volvo…also terrible, but not bad cars. The Big 3 made a big turnaround in quality since the 80-90s….believe me, I worked for Toyota for 12yrs and was easy to sell against them back then…they were garbage…today its not the case….show me 1 import with 400+ hp that gets 23mpg on the highway…..this is really an amazing stat…..Chrysler has several and GM has the Vette which actually does get 20+mpg and is a sports car. People complain about gas burning AMerican Cars…well hell…we have all models available here and what do people wanna buy? I had a Hummer…loved it…10mpg downhill….never had a minutes problem with it…great vehicle. I dont want some nutbag president dictating to me the MPG my car should get when his dumb a– is campaigning on the AMerican taxpayers dime in a 747 that costs 300k a day to operate….hypocrisy at its finest from this idiot…were all in deep trouble!!!
cmann….take a look at the new Dodge Challenger and tell me thats not pretty cool. Look at the new Camaro(i dont like it) …but pretty cool. What about the Chrysler 300 and Magnum….not too bad and 425hp available….check out the Ford GT….really cool but 150k…the Viper is nasty…just saw a new Impalla SS at Indy…open your eyes and look around
The big 3 has indeed made a turnaround in quality, but Chrysler is still lacking behind GM and Ford in quality big time. Everyone knows that, why are you in denial? Is that you behind the keyboard Nardelli?
I have to agree with “Average Joe”, there’s enough blame to go around for everyone to get some. Management was too concerned about their paychecks (I need 10 more million!)to manage. Designers were 10 years behind the times. The unions were all out for themselves and “to hell” with the company. (Union management did a GREAT job of getting everything they could for their guys…and that was their job!) God only knows what the boards of directors were doing, certainly NOT directing. The stockmarket investor was only interested in a dividend. NO ONE was interested in the longevity of the COMPANY!
If it wasn’t for “nutbag” Presidents insisting on better MPG (to save our environment, atmosphere, use of impoted oil…WHATEVER) we would still be trying to produce 10 MPG “downhill” vehicles here while the rest of the world is producing 35 MPG vehicles.
“If the union workers got higher pay, they’d make better cars.” You kidding right? Fire the people that think that way and get people that want/need a job. I promise you the Asians don’t think that way!
I buy American cars. I want to continue to buy American cars. Last year I went to the car show in search of a good midsize car. I’m sorry, but all the American cars I sat in just seemed like junk compared to similar priced japanese versions. I didn’t want it to be like that. Tried hard to convince myself otherwise, but it was impossible.
American companies have a $7K+ burden of union mandated benefits on each car. It essentially means that the Americans must sell you a $17K car for $24K. The competition gets to sell a car without that burden (ie. a car that should go for 17K is selling for $24K against a car that actually was built as a $24K car). The American car companies will NEVER be able to compete with that albatross around their neck.
Void the UAW contract. Let the ones that want to come back to work under more realistic terms come back. The ones that don’t can go work elsewhere. Sorry, but floor sweepers don’t deserve $32 an hour and healthcare for life. Car companies (or any other company for that matter) just can’t afford it.
Quite honestly, I’m not sure we can justify 3 major car companies in the US anymore. While painful, they may not be viable under any circumstances. They are definitely not viable with the current union agreements.
ncgreybr…..i assume you are a liberal nutbag treehugger also….1 question….how many 35mpg vehicles do Mercedes, Volvo, Saab, BMW, Aston Martin, Ferrari, Porshe, Lamborghini, Maserati, Land Rover, Range Rover etc… produce???
Quick answer none….there are too few tree huggers out there to drive demand….economics 101….law of supply and demand…if there were a demand for these, private companies would build them and profit from them….in a socialist economy like our “nutbag president” is creating, we will all be forced to drive Tatas, Yugos and other socialist wonders like that. There is no market for unsafe overpriced high mileage vehicles, except in the tre huggin markets….hey yall can have um…bless you…..just dont pull out in front of my gas sucking SUV and youll be OK!!!!!
It is very simple…..GM and Chrysler failed because the public did not support their products at the prices they tried to sell them…..just because the government now owns them does not mean these same people will now buy these products….this will go down as a $100 billion dollar diaster and the people repsonsible; Obama, the democrats and the unions will not take any responsibility….remember they are spending taxpayers money….they have no skin in the game……the real investors were screwed…..all Americans should send a message to this government and not purchase any GM or Chrysler products at any price….that is the only thing left for the taxpayers….their voices are not being heard as the pigs at the trough of the government “teat” are drowning out all common sense…….do you think Obama, all the democrats and all the union members would put their own money up as collateral? not a chance in this world……
“If management would give the union workers more money and benefits, they would make better cars–very simple. Now, there’s little incentive to make high quality cars because the workers know that management is out for themselves, and not the workers and the union.”
Give the unions MORE money? Did you honestly say that? The contracts with the UAW were killing them.
j rev said “You people do realize that the UAW has made considerable concessions in order to keep this company afloat. The investors on the other hand……………”
Gee, make concessions or lose everything…tough choice. The investors shouldn’t have to make concessions as they were the ones footing the bills.
“ncgreybr…..i assume you are a liberal nutbag treehugger also….1 question….how many 35mpg vehicles do Mercedes, Volvo, Saab, BMW, Aston Martin, Ferrari, Porshe, Lamborghini, Maserati, Land Rover, Range Rover etc… produce???
Quick answer none….there are too few tree huggers out there to drive demand…”
I think Toyota produces more Cambrys than all the ones you listed together. Yes, there is a market for high mileage vehicles. You’re just too ignorant to see it. Intelligent patriotic people drive high mileage vehicles.
My Silverado has 250,000 miles on the clock. My Trailblazer has 172,000. Both have held up just fine. GMs quality isn’t as bad as many make them out to be. Granted I do also have a Camry and it already has 52,000 miles. The quality of both companies has been pretty good.
I am eyeing the new Camaro as it looks quite nice to me. Though I wouldn’t have a problem if I ended up with a Challenger.
Buzz: I agree about the quality. I have a 98 Ford PU with a little over 200,000 miles on it and the only problem has been a little clutch problem. Not even enough to take in and have fixed. Before that I had a Chev truck. Got 200,000 on that one too. Before that, a FOrd PU that finally died of old age. The only reason I’ve got the Nisson Altima (besides the rear end looking so hot!) is that my head rubbed the liner on the Monte Carlo. I would have bought the Monte Carlo in a heartbeat!
Why doesn’t Detroit go back to the classics and rebuild a few of them using modern technology? I would love to have an old style/but updated Malibu or Cutlass muscle car. How about a 59 Caddy that gets 35 MPG!
O.K. the unions didn’t do it. The management did. GM, Ford, & Chrysler management should have grown some and thrown the unions out years ago. No one deserves that kind of pay and lifetime healthcare for screwing doorknobs on or sweeping floors. No business model will support that. When will the American automakers get a clue and kick the unions out and re-hire a workforce at a reasonable wage commensurate with skills required for the job. Maybe then they would have a chance at being profitable. The democrats and the unions will be the downfall of this country.
current employee of home depot… been with home depot for 11 years and sitll miss bernie and arthur. when this idiot, suck up from ge came to us we all could see problems right away. he tried to run the company like a manufacturing company rather than a retail company. too many reports and stupid base lines. might work in manufacturing but not in retail. the only thing he did was take away from customer satisfaction. i am glad he failed at chrysler. he should be labled as not one of the worst ceo’s in america.. but as the worse. any company hiring him should be forewarned… he will ruin you.
Last time I looked Toyota lost bilions,Nissan was French owned and Honda was scrambling to sell vehicles it could not move off it lots. The union costs that put US manufactors over the top are our health care costs in this country. US manufactors were just to loyal to dealers and its workers, indeed how unamerican.
The stock market is based primarily on investor confidence and loosely on the overall health of the economy . People forgot this little fact over time. Just like when the banks were bailed out and the concept of credit being freed up caused some spikes in the DOW, this move will as well. Once the excitement wears off a little, investors will remember that there are still problems, and add a natural disaster or two in there, and things will drop again. It could be compared to a new store or restaurant that just opened. People get all excited and flock to it, causing demand. Then once they’ve been there, they aren’t as curious any more and excitement drops off. If its a great place, then it will survive. If not, it will fold.
The first reaction could be negative, but it wasn’t. That does say a lot about investors and economic principles. Laissez-faire may be mouthed, but when it comes to plunking down money, people want more control than rogue or incompetent CEOs provide. Maybe if we admitted this before things go South, we could eliminate the convulsions.
This just shows the stock market is evil!!!
I moved most of my 401 money into BOnds last week expecting a good size drop today because of GM filing.
Also I thought OBama was going to do something about speculating in the oil markets, but here we go with oil taking off again,is any one in WASH paying attention???
I was a stock broker for 14 years. There are several reasons why the Dow would go up.
“Buy on the bad news, sell on the good” is an old stock market axiom. The market moves on “expectation” not “realization”. It has had months to prepare for the actual event of GM filing.
The stock market is a “leading indicator”. The market is demonstrating what it senses six months from now, not today.
Re the oil prices, I would suggest that they are rising on the “expectation” that the economy is getting ready to improve. The stock market might just be concurring with potential economic news and considering it more significant than the increase in oil.
DITTO what CJKatl said. That is the entire situation exactly in a nutshell. Corporate greed at any cost. Including employees, neighborhood little league teams and the country.
It is that it was expected, the worst is presumed to be over, and the government is doing something to soften the effects. GM will apparently still be in business and all of the other companies and people who do business with GM will not be left out in the cold. That is GOOD news. Thus, the market goes up.
Good news for now, but my money says GM will not survive without a new and future work force that starts out at about $10 an hour and tops out at about around $30 an hour, no more $80,000 a year for working on an assembly line and pensions of at least half of what they are now and retirees going on medicare and having INS for part B like everyone else.
GM, Delphi and DHL have put 30,000 people out of work in Dayton metro. People desperate to work at NCR. So Bill Nuti, in his ultimate wisdom, decides to move the city’s iconic company to Atlanta? What on earth for? The traffic? The high cost of housing? The shortage of water? The incredible pollen counts? The hour long commute to the airport? Somebody is getting paid off big time. Bill Nuti is ripping the heart out Dayton and squishing it between his toes. Kharma dude. Watch your kharma. Sorry Atlanta, I don’t feel your joy
They wont be providing jobs. The jobs are being filled now. I have a friend who was promoted and will be teaching there at the new office on peachtree street. so, if anything they are bringing more people to the already congested area. NO NEW JOBS. sorry……….
Peachtree City is not Atlanta and is not on Peachtree Street. Peachtree City is surrounded by affordable housing and is about 15 minutes from the airport, not an hour, and the area has enough going on where you don’t have to go to Atlanta. Peachtree City living is as laid back as it comes, you can get from point A to point B on a golf cart. Get your facts straight since you obviously don’t know what your talking about.
Let’s see…if a company is headquartered in Dayton and it brings those jobs to Atlanta (and doesn’t create a single new job at the company), then there will be new jobs in the metro area even if no current residents are hired. These people will buy homes, restaurant meals, automobiles, gasoline, pay taxes, etc. At the margin, moving 1,300 jobs to Atlanta will cause some others to be created among other area companies.
But I’m not a statist so you libs keep thinking this is a bad thing.
There are two locations in GA, one in Duluth, one in PTC. The PTC is where the new Center of Excellence is being constructed which will provide quality training for employees. Facility has been under construction for all of 2009.
I hope you know that if NCR moves, you will be helping to put a lot of people in Ohio out of work. So thanks from us here in Dayton. I hope you can still sleep at night.
I was there in Duluth when NCR was kind enough to sell the building, lease back half of it and actually had the contractors cut our cubicle desks in half. I was also there when my team was me and a dozen people offshore and I was given new and near impossible tasks each day. In spite of all of that and months of excessive overtime to attempt those unrealistic deadlines, I was given a raise that was less than half inflation.
I greatly enjoyed my time with the wonderful people I worked with there and the opportunity they gave me to work w/ massive Fortune100 companies but the cost cutting to the bone and ridiculously bad raises didn’t leave me much option. I left for a position that paid me over 50% more and never looked back.
You may think this is some great boon for GA but NCR likely had far more than 2,000 jobs coming in Georgia just 10-15 years ago before they dumped all their manufacturing on Solectron. When I got there half the cubicles were empty and so much of the company’s talent had already walked out the door. AT&T’s disastrous acquisition and subsequent spin-off nearly destroyed the company from nearly 60,000 employees to under 30,000 by 2000. It’s now 20,000 and revenues are still below what they were in 1990. The company is posed to fall off the Fortune 500 despite being there since its inception in 1955.
The company is storied but its greatest stories are of its failures, missteps, and its near misses with greatness. The single greatest claim to fame is they fired the guy that created IBM. It may be some jobs for Duluth but I am also saddened for the people in Dayton b/c NCR has 100+ years in Dayton only to be dumped for some ridiculous tax credits that Purdue gave them. I can just see Nuti telling facilities to dig up the sawed off cubicle sections to fill up the walled off section of the building.
Sonny, get off your a$$ and do what ever you have to do to bring more tech to the area. See Dallas for an example. I don’t know what Dallas does, but you can’t swing a cat without hitting a high paying tech company.
To the Bill’s, Norris’, vuduchld’s, Keith’s and J’s of the world (in Ohio), only look at yourselves for this NCR move. You and your representatives have make Ohio the 4th highest taxed state in the union. No wonder companies want to move. The place is dark and a mess already…then you tax people and companies to death.
Business is business, and apparently you all (ya’ll in our language) don’t get it. So keep taxing yourselves for a better job, believe the politicans about how this will make things better, and don’t move South. Most of you that moved already has made the mess we have today. Have fun up there!!
I understand the pain and anger of the people in Ohio as we have all felt the same in Georgia as our HQ’s have moved to other areas of the Country recently. Let’s cut them some slack and be appreciative that a Fortune 500 Company sees fit to move to our area and wish the fine friends in Dayton the very best.
Regarding how we convinced NCR to move their HQ and additional facilities to GA, all I would suggest is that our tax dollars are being spent on other things already; why not use some of them to help encourage NCR to relocate here, hire our citizens, pay taxes, etc, so it can generate revenues for the State and eventually pay us back rather than continue to just have money be paid out with nothing in return?
Ohio should wake up and smell the unfriendly business climate. The reason companies continue to move South is because we have lower taxes and aren’t unionized.
While this is positive for the Atlanta area, there is actually a downside. Georgia’s “leadership” will see this relocation as validation of their bone-headed lack of planning. The long term result will be that Atlanta falls farther behind Texas cities which are building roads, public transportation, and planned for water decades ago.
I am in Atlanta…I worked for NCR in Duluth a few years back. If Dayton offered NCR millions to stay, how much did GA offer? There is no free lunch here…GA must have offered enough tax savings to push this through the board of directors as well as perceived future cost savings for NCR to have pursued anything like this. If Dayton was dropping 10 figures, that means GA offered that and more. NCR even owns the country club in Dayton (See NCR Country Club) so it obviously took a lot for the company to move. The Satellite Blvd facility used to be manufacturing and offices before it was converted to nearly 200,000 sqft of offices by consolidating several offices and layoffs. When I was there the cubicles were 7′x10′ and half were empty from the rounds of layoffs. The company as a cost saving move sold the building, leased back half, and proceeded to cut our cubes in half to 7′x5′ which made them taller than they were wide and pretty much a phone booth. The company obviously doesn’t have tremendous foresight b/c they owned the real estate on their planned Duluth HQ until 2006 and to have to come back, knock down all the walls they built to lease back the rest of the building 3 yrs later shows a very short planning horizon.
NCR likely had 4-5,000 jobs in the Atlanta metro in the 90’s. It long ago offshored those jobs and yes they are bringing some jobs to GA but I honestly doubt they are making as much of an impact as Purdue or whoever negotiated the tax breaks for them to show up. The avg salary is $70k…that’s terrible for a tech company given you have senior execs making a few million a year counting toward that salary. GT grads make more than that by their 3rd or 4th year out usually. I realize that Georgia is happy to get any jobs it can but I’d much rather see them pulling companies like Google, Microsoft, et al rather than a relatively has been company whose hometown history is so closely intertwined with it. NCR has sold off both its high tech/growth Teradata product, low tech paper products, tech manufacturing, and all that’s left is a software product company that still thinks its in the business of moving boxes(ATM’s, POS, Kiosks) by giving its software away.
GA isn’t gaining a high tech future here. The money could have been far better spent trying to get a true tech company to build an R&D center in Atlanta near GT. NCR isn’t a growth company and getting 1,300 jobs means they probably shed another 1,000 in the process.
What a joke, NCR is on the way out. Dayton citzen’s built that company and to think that NCR will be good to Georgia think again. Dayton has to get rid of Mayor Franklin friend McLin who’s been inviting her to Dayton to speak all the time while all along she was here courting business’s to move to Georgia. It makes me sick that no company in this country has any loyalty to the community that made them who they are. If it’s all about the profits then God help us all.
Why would any company want to move to the Atlanta area? They most relish high crime, Mexican drug cartels, choking air pollution, unbearable traffic, ignorant politicians, drought, miserable summer heat and a hearty supply of Georgia rednecks.
Ohio is a high tax state and has been losing jobs for years. Haven’t you noticed?
Companies have to relocate where they can survive–whether Atlanta or overseas. If you’d like to prevent other such companies from leaving Ohio, then make your business climate more friendly. Tell Ted you want fewer services and lower taxes. Plus, Ohio is a forced unionism state while Georgia is a right-to-work state. That also says something about the business climate.
In short, at least in this instance, Ohio was not competitive with Georgia. You can get mad or you can get better.
Welcome to 2009, and stop living in the past. If you own your business, and times are what they are today, you know that you can’t run things like it was in the 90’s. Things change…business structures change. In this new market, you have to make changes. I doubt that the decision was done in a matter of days or even weeks. Many changes, along with money that needs to be borrowed to make this move, were observed and compared.
No one is forcing people to stay in Ohio! People have been known to move where the jobs are. In the stone ages, people moved where the animals migrated. If the people did not move where it would bring them food and they go through hard times, it is a matter of choice to me.
60M? That’s a ridiculous sum of money for a company to bring its HQ. I’ll say it again, NCR isn’t a great company anymore. They’ve shrunk every year these last 2 decades and that jobs # will shrink faster than the cost to the taxpayers who pick up their burden. Paying that kind of money to have them lay off another few thousand after the tax break runs out is kind of pointless don’t you think?
Purdue might as well just spent that money adding more lanes to I-85.
The State of Georgia definitely made the right call. Sometimes you have to spend money to make money! Adding another Fortune 500 company to the Atlanta economy will more than pay back for the cost of incentives. Think about it this way. Now that Georgia has landed NCR, many other companies that do business with NCR will consider moving operations to the area. The financial ramifications are huge! This is a BIG WIN for the state of Georgia, and totally worth the initialcost.
Without question it’s GA. Not only will we have the direct impact of the jobs NCR will bring and the added prestige of being home to another Fortune 500 company, but we will also receive the secondary and/or indirect benefits of having a major player like NCR HQ’d here. From the amount of money their employees will spend in the local economy to the partner businesses that will increase their presence here to do business with them to the amount of money the company will spend with local companies (i.e. law firms, infrastructure related costs)
All I hear is that the state has and needs to cut spending. Perdue is not willing to cut property taxes for the Georgia homeowners, but he instead is spending 60M in taxpayers money to lure NCR to Georgia.
WOW! what is wrong with this? Again, tax breaks for corporate america and not the average american.
That is about 28,000$ per job. It will take a few years to recoup in taxes, but this is still a win for metro Atlanta (and all of us who work in the technical field).
I agree with ATLborn…. .this is a BIG,BIG WIN FOR THE STATE OF GEORGIA AND DULUTH! Ohio’s Gov. screwed up royally! He should have never let NCR get out of the state….
It is unlikely the State is actually spending much of anything. Most of the money is going to be property and other taxes waived for the future. Like it or not, this is how it works today.
Looks like the cat got out of the bag a little soon with AJC printing stories with few details.
CT I agree! You cant give the masses a break but you can shell out 60 million dollars of OUR $ to these people. I wonder how much of that the CEO got and what perks Sonny’s gonna get for this. The state of this country is deplorable…
I HATE HATE HATE Sonny Purdue. I think he’s 75% of the time incompetent and he lets religion cloud his judgment when it comes to running this state. That being said (and I did enjoy typing that), this is HUGE HUGE HUGE for GA. Those of you that disagree need to learn a little something about business.
Georgia definitely made the right call. The benefits of another HQ for Georgia far out weigh the $60 million paid because of the jobs and the revenue it will bring to Georgia. Other companies as a result might consider locating in Georgia too as a result of NCR locating here.
I live in Dayton. In the last 6 Months, We have had a huge GM plant shut down, over 2,000 laid off. Iams has moved a few miles south into Cincinnati, DHL has laid off several thousand and now NCR is gone. The only big employers left are WPAFB and Universities. NCR was founded in Dayton, and developed into a large national company b/c of Daytonians. They have now screwed Dayton, never giving Ohio an opportunity to bid. Ohio did not make a bid until after NCR decided to move. Things are bad in Dayton, and only getting worse. I am now seriously considering into moving out of Dayton. Cincy and Columbus are nearby and doing much better. Dayton will soon be a ghost town.
So, we just spent 60 million bucks to move NCR to Atlanta and all of THEIR employees? You people are idiots if you think this is going to help Atlanta.
I’m in the camp of the fellow posters who say, “Hate Purdue, love this win.”
This is a tremendous win for the metro area and the state.
A few of the posts here are a sad reminder of the “woe is me” group who are never happy with anything. We still have one of the lowest net effect tax rates in the country. You losers have no concept of the idea of “investment”– ie. spending money to make money. It’s always “us versus them” with you guys. It’s sad, really.
I agree with Real Dawg, the state isn’t actually going to spend that much money, but most of that $60M will be in tax breaks. It’s a huge sum to give up in the short-term but in the long run it will be better.
NCR formerly National Cash Registry is a leader in cash registers and ATM and recently Network management. I used to work at NCR and I think bringing business is always good. I feel this company still has a good ole boy network so they will fit right into Ga
It really depends. Will the Company bring their employees with them. If thats the case then it does nothing for the state of Georgia. If the company hires Georgia workers, will they pay a livable wage? I believe that Georgia has a lot to offer Corporations but we should not be paying companies to relocate when they plan to bring most of their employees with them. Thats just money out of our budget for nothing.
I also live in Dayton. I have watched Mead, GM, Iams and now NCR pack up and leave. I cannot list the many businesses that were taken out in the process. Who knows what’s going to happen next.
Blame it on the economy. Blame it on the leadership (trust me Dayton’s mayor is no gem). We have a lot of work to do.
there aren’t any companies left in ohio except honda, especially Dayton. Mayor McClin has chased off
all the corporations. I think we have a higher crime rate than Atlanta. Gov Strickland isn’t much better, but that’s Democrats for ya. According to the Dayton news stations, which just broke the story TODAY NCR has been ignoring the politicians efforts to keep them here. Oh well, maybe we’ll finally get those 2 clowns voted out next election.
Even if they bring their employees here they will have to pay state taxes, purchase things in GA, etc. This will help the economy in the long run. Also they will end up hiring some Georgians
Justice for all…my sentiments exactly. They will bring the majority of their employees because, let’s face it, people will move to keep their job in this economy.
They might bring some employees with them (this is the headquarters after all) but for the most part the employees will come from the state. NCR already has a presence in Duluth and have for years. Some employees will get relocation assistance while others will be left out and be replaced locally. Yes this is a win for Georgia.
Victoria – Thats what I am thinking. They all get pinks and the first thing these employees ask is can they keep their jobs if they pay to move? Well how many of these employees do you think will move? Almost all of them. Ohio has been a bad state for years (I know, I left 25 years ago) and its not hard to leave there and not look back. Most of these employees will follow their jobs at their own expense and that does little to employe the people of Georgia. Thats what I am afraid of.
So if all of you hate Sonny, why did you vote him into office? Was it that confederate flag he was vaving and his newly minted Republican label? That seems to work well in Georgia politics.
NCR 2008 Net Income: $228 million
GA Corp Tax Rate: 6%
Estimated Tax Revenue: $13.68 million
Years to recover investment: 4.39
Years to recover investment when you the income and sales taxes paid by the 2,120 people who get a job in Georgia: probably less than 2 because this will be their corp headquarters and the people working there will have a high average salary. Oh yeah, lets not forget about the home sales this will generate.
Ok, I will give you NCR probably won’t have as good of year in 2009, but this is a steal for Georgia. The people gripping about the $60 million investment are probably the same ones complaining about the lack of jobs.
$60 million for what? HQ for a failing company??? NCR was failing back when AT&T bought it in the 80s. Former AT&T CEO Allen got skewered for buying that POS company. Now Atlanta has lured it with taxpayer dollars that would have been better spent on DOT projects or education or even TAX CUTS. This is a crying shame. Perdue should be impeached.
Purdue doesn’t care… I can’t wait until his term if over. He gave away a 7.5 billion contract to IBM which in turn laid off US workers so they could hire workers in India. Now..he wants praise for this.. forget it. He was just screwing people out of their retirement. thanks gov
So thats where the homeowner’s tax credit went. The company coming here is a good thing, but I believe doubling what Ohio was offering is a bit much. $60M compared to $31.1 seems like OPM was just thrown at the company to get them here. I hope the hiring of Georgians was included in the agreement. NCR is the real winner, not the states.
Well considering that NCR and Georgia did not bargain in good faith, you can say that “Georgia” made the right call. NCR would not even discuss relocation with the state of Ohio until yesterday. Wonder how long Sunny had discussions on-going? NCR won’t comment on how long they were negotiating with the state of Georgia. Maybe do some journalism (I know how all you southerners are challenged in english, spelling, morals, etc.)and find out?
NCR made the right call, because NCR has been planning this move for at least a decade now. Ohio couldn’t have kept NCR if they would have tripled their offer. And Georgia is just doing what it does well… …dangling huge perks to corporations in dying cities like Dayton, Cleveland, Detroit, etc.
People in Dayton all have Southern accents by the way. Most of them are within 1-3 generations of the south to begin with as a result of their ancestors moving north for factory jobs.
C T, you obviously just don’t get it. Breaks to businesses to lure them or keep them here pay off way more than the tax breaks themselves. You have thousands of people moving here, spending their money here, paying taxes here. GA won’t actually pay out much of anything, they will pay in the form of tax incentives. Narrow minded people like yourself think corporations are evil. Without them, no one has a job. Tax breaks for corporate America allow them to sell their products cheaper and help them to employ more people, which in turn benefits everyone. So if you don’t think there’s a benefit from a fortune 500 company locating in GA, you need to go back to school (if you ever went) and take a few economics classes.
Bryan – I think your assumption that all NCR’s income will be taxable in Georgia is incorrect. I’m not a tax attorney or an accountant, but I’m pretty sure the income is taxed according to where the revenue is recognized, meaning all over the country and the world.
Can we get a corporate tax expert to weigh in here?
How many employees move? Try selling their current house – with all the other companies leaving Dayton, no one is buying.
This is a great move – NCR has a prescense in GA already, and this solifies that (would have hated to be Dayton and watch them move – Sonny would have been blamed for that)
Let’s compare to Obama and GM – he gives 20 billion in loans 3 months ago to a company that is now bankrupt and now gives 50 billion more to a “new GM” that has yet to make a car AND puts a 31 year old guy in charge. All for 50,000 jobs. So Obama give Seventy Thousand Million for 50,000 jobs and a bankrupt company, and Sonny gives 60 million in tax credits to gain 2000 jobs. You do the math
When I lived in Dayton, NCR was THE big time corporation, mainly because they were very well managed and were large contributors to local charities and events. I worked for them one summer during college at their worldwide training center, where they had employees coming in for training from all over the world. They are a true global corporation and are definitely a good catch for metro Atlanta, even at the cost of $60M.
Steve – You are correct, its earned where it is recognized. I also didnt point out Tax Income is different than Book or GAAP Income. But regardless, this is good for the state. The $60 million investment is nothing compared to the benefits. Thats what Im trying to point out.
I was a teen in 2000. I’m talking about NCR today. I worked there in ‘05-’06 at the Duluth office and worked on one of their largest clients. I learned a lot and really enjoyed my coworkers and the sense of community that apparently they worked so hard at tearing apart. At the same time, they were a tech company that didn’t believe in tech. They threw all their resources at selling physical boxes rather than the value the software provided. Look at IBM, Oracle, Microsoft…do any of them give the software away for free to make money selling the box and a service contract? The people there had a hardened bitterness to a company that had changed direction so many times and laid off so many. It’s a shell of the company it once was and bringing it to ATL for 60M is a bit ridiculous. NCR has a long history of shortsighted decisions and this one is something that Purdue just handed them a jackpot.
I don’t own my own company…I’m happily employed at another company that pays me over 50% more than NCR did. I’m just being realistic in saying that Purdue obviously is a terrible negotiator b/c they gave away the farm just for NCR to bring a few jobs to the state. Instead of putting that 60M toward turning ATL into a true tech destination, he bought up an old, outdated company that’s beyond its glory days. What’s next? Bring the bankrupted remnants of GM down? The Westin already looks just like their HQ I guess.
The homeowners tax credit did not only go to this. The bulk of the tax credit went to the billions in corporate tax breaks handed out the past 6 years. Most people have cared little as our lawmakers have shifted the tax burden to the property owner.
Look at Gwinnett County for instance, the new home of NCR. County officials tried to raise taxes in large part because of the lack of the state homestead exemption. The county officials are taking the heat for this although it’s the state Republican leaders like Balfour who are responsible.
Btw, did any of those speaking at anti- tax rally mention anything about the 31 million dollar tax subsidy waste given to Gwinnett schools. You know the subsidy that is meant for poor school districts. Why didn’t Sen Balfour fight to end this handout? The republicans all know about the loophole and did nothing. Hypocrites.
Welcome all you NCR employees getting ready to move here! You’re going to be mad as heck when you realize the traffic infested mess you’re about to move to. You’ll love the fact that your tax dollars are being diverted to south Georgia!
All I hear is that the state has and needs to cut spending. Perdue is not willing to cut property taxes for the Georgia homeowners, but he instead is spending 60M in taxpayers money to lure NCR to Georgia
I don’t think Ga is payin cash to them, probably tax incentives for taxes that would have never been paid if the company stayed in Ohio.
Obama’s trying to save existing jobs…NCR coming to ATL aren’t new jobs. Anyone who doesn’t come loses their job in Dayton. It’s a significant difference given we basically handed them the cash to ditch town when they likely would have come for less. The net new jobs from Dayton is probably less than the number of people NCR has laid off in Duluth in the past decade.
It wouldn’t surprise me if this is the single biggest thing helping NCR’s balance sheet this year. They’re shrinking year over year and spun off their only growth division 2 yrs ago.
Purdue has major gall on this one. Furthermore, wait till they get a taste of Atlanta’s traffic. Nobody wants to relocate their company here because of it so we pay them $60M to move here…LOL
Purdue has major gall on this one. Furthermore, wait till they get a taste of Atlanta’s traffic. Nobody wants to relocate their company here because of it so we pay them $60M to move here…LOL
Atlanta does not have the worse traffic in the nation and many, many towns offer incentives for companies to relocate. Why aren’t companies leaving Atlanta then if its so terrible. Chicago paid big to get Boeing to move their headquarters and 1800 jobs. Seems like a win win for Atlanta metro if you ask me.
I’m not fundamentally against using economic incentives to move high tech/high paying jobs here but this isn’t the case w/ NCR. Essentially, they’re moving some HR, admin, and finance over but most of the tech has shifted to overseas sites and what tech is in the US was already in Duluth. Purdue essentially paid them $60M to bring over some jobs that will likely be dumped in a few years as the company continues to shrink. When was the last innovative product you saw from NCR?
The avg salary is $70k which isn’t bad but tech companies generally pay a lot more. A GT grad starting salary is over $60k…how long until they outrun NCR? Ask how many more GT grads will now stay in state to work for them and you’ll realize we paid a very heavy price for minimal long term benefits. The money could have been better used funding some startups or investing in tech incubators.
I can’t stand Perdue, either. With that said, getting NCR is huge.
NCR coming in will also have a positive effect on the housing market here. There will be a mixture of transfers and new local hires. All of the allied of businesses that come here to support NCR and the service and construction industries it will take to support their employees will have a huge, positive impact on our economy. It’s a good day.
I knew Mayor Franklin wasn’t coming to Dayton to speak to the community. Mayor McLin has been drunk for years and now NCR leaves a city that made it who it is. Where is the loyalty from any company these days. Help us if all we care about is profits.
Every time Georgia pays off a company to move here, it is both an immediate success and a long term failure. Georgia is benefiting now, only becuase we’re outbidding other states in giveaways. This means for the next deal to succeed we’ll have to spend more than $60M, and the next one more than that. Its a future that only spirals out of control.
Instead of spending all this money to “steal” jobs from other states, Georgia would get just as much immediate impact – and a lot more long term impact – in creating new jobs from scratch. Business incubators are one approach. Why not spend more money on these?
I live in Maryland so I’m watching this from a nutral site. It seems to me that you fine folks in Georgia may have started something and who knows where it will lead. Do you for one second think that other states aren’t paying attention? Do you think that Ohio, Michigan, Penn and others will just stand aside and do nothing? My guess is that they won’t. So what fine, Georgia based companies will ignore attractive, tax free offers to move? Coke, Simmons, Delta … you might have more to lose than Ohio. So what offers will Georgia need to do to make to Coke and others stay happy? Seems like the Georgia tax base just got a wee bit smaller. Of course services and infrastructure will still neeed to be provided. So someone will have to pick up the bill. Hmm I wonder who that will be? But hey, we at least Georgia gave it to the Unions. But then who is going to look out for for the new, lower paid workers? Not to worry I’m sure NCR executive management has that one all figured out. And it they don’t they can always move in 10 years or so to another state willing to make a sweeter deal.
BS in CS = $60,500 median
BS in CE = $62,000 median
MS in CS = $81,000
MS in EE/CE = $78,000
This isn’t counting the signing bonus either…
I didn’t say there was anything wrong w/ bringing the jobs but we paid a very heavy cost w/o a huge return. NCR isn’t going to open a research campus and build the next supercomputer or paradigm in computing.
They play w/ commodities and service contracts fighting against Fortune500 retailers which is a losing battle. I haven’t seen anything new beyond an NCR scanner in a Walmart since ‘06. IBM undercut NCR on the hardware for new Walmart self checkouts and NCR is stuck supporting the software w/o the hardware sales to make up for it.
Purdue dropped a ton of future tax revenue for a few jobs in a non-growth company. NCR’s dropped its headcount by over 60% in the last 20 years and moved what R&D it has overseas. In ‘05 NCR hired me and 3 other GT grads out of a total of 5 new hires in Duluth. All of us left by ‘07 b/c of stagnant wages that were quickly falling below what new grads made. It will likely take well over a decade to make up the tax break w/ state income taxes from the jobs coming into town. I’m also not counting the other jobs they created at their call center b/c those jobs were coming anyway regardless of the HQ move.
I suspect that there will be a lot of Atlantans hired. Companies like this are moving because a new CEO wants to change the culture, bring in younger, more innovative and flexible workers–and Atlanta is a great city for attracting young high-tech workers. They’ll probably offer buyouts to a bunch of existing workers and leave them in Ohio, because they really don’t want them coming. Same happened a few years ago when Merial moved from NJ to Atlanta–CEO was looking to create a new culture and leave the clock punchers behind.
Noah, I read in your paper “Most of the incentives, $56.9 million, according to the Georgia Department of Economic Development, will come via the so-called Mega Tax Credit legislation intended to entice big companies to move here. Gov. Sonny Perdue signed the bill May 5.
NCR is the first company to benefit from the legislation, said economic development spokeswoman Alison Tyrer. In fact, on Feb. 18, the day the bill (HB 438) was introduced in the Georgia House, Gov. Sonny Perdue called NCR CEO Bill Nuti. Perdue again lobbied Nuti on Feb. 27.”
Seems NCR is the first to use this tax break program. That is what I was referring to when I wrote that you may have started something….
didn’t say there was anything wrong w/ bringing the jobs but we paid a very heavy cost w/o a huge return
What was the cost. If they didnt come here we wouldnt have any more money then if they do.
Most of the incentives, $56.9 million, according to the Georgia Department of Economic Development, will come via the so-called Mega Tax Credit legislation intended to entice big companies to move here. Gov. Sonny Perdue signed the bill May 5.
To avail themselves of the tax breaks, companies must create at least 1,800 new jobs. They must also invest $450 million or create an annual payroll of $150 million or more.
NCR’s payroll will top $150 million, the company says, and roughly 2,000 new jobs will be created. Its investment is pegged at $30 million.
We essentially gave them a free pass on taxes which means that once it runs out they’re likely to jump to the next town that’s willing to cut them a bigger break. There’s nothing anchoring them here compared to how established they were in Dayton. They put 110 yrs and built the city…we handed them 60M in breaks to fill out the other half of a building they used to own.
We’re essentially going for a race to zero b/c now we’ve created a disincentive for large existing companies to stay when other states create similar programs. Home Depot threatened to go to FL and if they left, we’d lose a lot more money than NCR ever brought.
NCR isn’t really bringing jobs that will help the long term development of the state. The R&D jobs were already here and we just handed them a huge tax break to bring a few more. Are you sure the company’s right sized enough already? Do they lose the break if they lay off 300-400 people after they get here? What’s keeping them from parlaying this into 80M to stay in Ohio before they finish knocking down the wall on the other half of the building?
We’re essentially going down a dangerous gambit of stealing dev from other states rather than fostering it on our own. As Michigan and Ohio get more desperate as the rust belt crumbles, it’s likely they’ll sacrifice all taxes just to steal away any businesses we have and its unlikely we can match their desperation.
Not sure this was the right move for Georgia. Tracking Fortune 500 since its original publication (1955), NCR has dropped from #116 to #446 as of 2009. Since 2006, NCR went from #357 to #446 as of 2009, dropping 54 spots in the most recent year alone. Some of the ranking decline is not only attributed to other emerging industries but also global competition. A similar decline in 2010 and NCR is no longer a Fortune 500 company. Would be interesting to hear the Governor’s rationale for bidding almost twice as much as Ohio to lure them here. I am sure some of the incentives reflect relocation costs that Ohio did not have to offer.
We aren’t moving people to GA–Georgians will be getting jobs. Also, Franklin had nothing to do with it–the office is in Duluth. Finally, over 800 jobs will be created in Columbus because of this. This NCR deal is bringing good things to different parts of the state. This is a huge win for the state of Georgia!
The Governor’s going to have to spend a lot of money to catch the big three states for Fortune 500. Georgia has 29 Fortune 500 companies and the leader, Texas, has 118. Even on a per capita basis, Texas has a higher percentage of large companies.
What’s also interesting is that much discussion has occurred about businesses moving to where there is an educated workforce from which to draw. But California/NY/Michigan/Minnesota are states with schools, especially universities that are well respected. However, why do companies not gravitate anymore toward them? Seems that business inducements like Texas Enterprise fund, lower tax rates, cost of living and warm weather mitigate concerns about lacking highly educated workforces. Mobility within the U.S. enables businesses to bring/draw the workers from other regions. So its hast la vista baby to New York, Dayton, and California!
These are not new jobs. These jobs were STOLEN from Ohio with your tax dollars used as a bribe. Shame on NCR and shame on you, Georgia. I hope you can still sleep at night while hard-working Ohio people lose their jobs. The ripple effect of this loss will become a tidal wave of destruction. This is truly un-American.
I generally disapprove of Perdue’s leadership on several fronts but this is an economic win for Georgia and a political win for Perdue who, once again, was able to successfully engineer giving away public tax dollars to private interests alowing both metro Atlanta and central/south Georgia to benefit. What is so frustrating about Perdue is that he has failed to galvanize the resources and political will to implement policies that will bring LONG TERM benefits to Georgia – primary and secondary education, healthcare, transportation, and infrastructure – as well as direct the state to support investment in industries that will provide jobs for future generations of Georgians (biotech, medicine, environment, etc.). I wonder how he explained to the good people at NCR that Georgia doesn’t allow consenting adults over the age of 21 to purchase alcohol on Sunday from their local grocer?
Since I’m not involved I find this situation very interesting. From what I read in the Ohio papers the main point of contention is that NCR did not negotiate in good faith. Actually NCR did not negotiate at all. If the Ohio papers are to beleived NCR refused to return the Governor’s phone calls and the first time the state learned of the deal was the night before the announcement. Very little time to put together a competent offer. They make the point that NCR made the decision to leave months, perhaps over a year ago.
Now NCR says that the incentives were not the only reason for the more. There were other “mitigating” considerations. WOW. This means that Georgia was played big time. Seems to me that the Gorgia tax payer could have offered NCR LESS than what Ohio offered and you still would have received the deal. But then it makes no sense that NCR would not have played Ohio off against Georgia. Why didn’t they? If I’m a shareholder this is a question I would be asking at the next shareholder meeting. What kind of business school did therese guys go to? Very interesting.
Instead of building a state that fosters businesses from the ground up, educates its population to make a good workforce, and has amenities people want when moving, we’re resorting to bribing companies to relocate which likely will fail in the long run. Sniping companies with fat tax breaks will bring in firms like NCR which has been doing financial games to make up for its eroding market share and aging technology. The company won’t even own its future HQ b/c it sold all of its real estate to make quarterly earnings when the economy was good. It tries to play in the world of hardware manufacturing but it doesn’t own many of its own facilities which were sold to Solectron to try to improve their profit margins which are still a dismal 3%.
How long until someone successfully pitches Home Depot, Coke, or UPS to go to Alabama, Florida, or the Carolinas? Are they just a 100M tax break away from running? We certainly don’t have better traffic, schools, or crime levels. What happens if the CEO of HD comes to Purdue and says he wants zero state taxes for the next 50 years or they leave? The 2,000 new people cost this state money in services and their company will pocket a lot of that cash even after paying to relocate many of them.
States competing against each other by throwing money – or tax abatements – at private companies to secure their investments or business is a race to the bottom.
While they may bring some new jobs to the state they do not bring new jobs to the country. So all that happens is the rich or those who spend the least on education and thusly can afford or provide the largest tax breaks gets more business. Ultimately the other states loseing out figure they have to match the tax breaks. And on and on it goes.
Meanwhile if there was some sort of agreement amongst the states Dayton wouldn’t be losing jobs it probably needs more than traffic choked Duluth. Yes along with the additional traffic and pollution Duluth gets more jobs but GA taxpayers end up getting less than they could have if GA wasn’t in the business of undercutting other states.
Get Real – Ohio’s offer was made AFTER the deal with Georgia so you can’t say they paid twice as much. And I’m not real sure what Gov. Strickland is doing with our monies, but you can damn well bet he’s not using it to keep business in Ohio!!!
It’s not sour grapes when two parties collude into a deal then try to make it appear that all negotiations and offers were “above the table”, as is the case in this matter. Just another example of regional economic warfare. So, go ahead and keep them. Just promise that no more Southerners will be allowed to cross north of the Ohio river and I’ll be happy. If I had my way I would give the south to the russians.
Company after company will continue to leave any state that is traditionally Republican and now turning Democratic. Ohio is fast becoming the next Michigan. Furthermore, Unions have virtually destroyed the economies of the Rust Belt as those businesses continue to make their way South. Democrats and Unions are bad for business – let Georgia turn a liberal shade of blue and the South will crumble too.
We need another William Tecumseh Sherman to come down and show Georgia how Ohioians do it. He had the right idea in burning Georgia to cinders. Enjoy those jobs from a company that will never produce the revenues you expect.
Ohio has lost alot of businesses under Gov Strickland. Dublin OH, a suburb of Columbus, lost Wendy’s to Atlanta. DHL practically wiped out an entire county when they left Wilmington, OH high & dry. Ohio used to be a powerhouse of manufacturing and businesses. The ONLY city in Ohio that is not loosing population is Columbus, the rest of the state will become like Michigan if they don’t embrace big business.
NCR isn’t a union shop and I don’t think many of its remaining manufacturing plants (none of which are in Dayton) are union. The Red/Blueness of the state didn’t cause NCR to leave. Maybe the lack of growth in the city but California is as blue as states go and there are still more jobs there despite the massive unemployment than probably most of the midwest outside of Texas.
ATL made a big cash play and won. An Ohio company desperate to bulk up its bottom line in the face of weak sales was easy given its woes. Beating Florida, Alabama, or the Carolinas in winning actual new growth jobs will be a very different story.
JMUgator, you are not very bright now are you. Seems to me that Georgia got played, big time. Based on what NCR has said, incentives were not the whole story. So Georgia paid TWICE what it had to. That’s quite a bit of $$$ left on the table. (That’s a business term … now keep with me…)
And you consider that a win? I guess it’s true, the education in the south is just not that good.
This is about the deal. NCR has been shrinking for decades. Ga. has them until they get a better deal from somewhere else. Then they’ll leave thier empty buildings in your back yard. The CEO of NCR is the whinney sports star who always wants more. When you get em, better put on the lock down.
i love georgia. absolutely in love with tybee island. but i live in dayton and i work (not for long) at this POS company. do i mean Point Of Sale or Piece Of Sh*t? you decide. i could care less about the stupid economy at this point – i’m so sick of hearing about it. what i do care about however is that my fellow 1249 co-workers are either losing their jobs or having to uproot their lives as of today. it’s blood boiling reading some of these comments. i have an entirely different view of georgia now. i hope this is all coming from atlanta and not savannah or tybee. completely heartless. so anyway, now we wait to see if we can keep our job at all, whether or not we get a very SMALL relocation package (like enough to rent a flipping uhaul) and we won’t find out until july. (but in the mean time, we should bust our asses to prove our worth) and oh by the way, what about our houses? the housing market in dayton already sucks and now we’re supposed to try and sell our homes when no one is freaking buying??? and then pay to move to a state where the cost of living is higher and we’ll be making no more than we were here? and if we don’t get offered a package, we have to compete with whoever stays for ohio jobs that don’t EXIST! whatever. trust me georgia, you can have my job. you can have all the stress of never knowing when the next r.i.f. is coming, never know when you’re on the chopping block or what work you’re going to acquire from someone else who got chopped and how much less money you’re going to make for taking on that additional work. good luck to you and your families. i hope you don’t take some of these extra jobs just to have it happen to you when the CEO decides to move it again to New York.
Great post welp! I feel your pain. Wait until you those that do make it here realize what a mess metro Atlanta is in. If it wasn’t clear then it will be, the employees were sold out for a few bucks. Its a disgrace. The metro Atlanta area can’t even deal with what we have. The state has no problem ignoring Atlanta’s growth problems as long as there is a buck to be made.
Great win Columbus and Duluth! That makes 2 Fortune 500 companies for Columbus and 2 Fortune 1000 companies. Atlanta and Columbus continue to lead the way for major companies!
Stuck in Dayton, but with a daughter (soon) in Atlanta
June 2nd, 2009 5:56 pm
The reason that NCR was in Dayton from the beginning is because it was ‘born’ here.
The chances of luring NCR from Dayton to Georgia in the 1950’s and 1960’s were very low, because of the physical committment in Dayton.
When most of what was left was ‘brain power’ it was a lot easier to move it away.
Dayton needs to nurture the innovators that are here, now. That’s who will be the next NCR.
Current policy is pretty hostile to a lot of business, so if I were starting up a company, I doubt I’d do it in Dayton either.
It was easy for Strickland to come in at the last minute and say, ‘wait, here’s some cash,’ knowing (or at least he should have known) that it would be turned down. That way he looks like he tried to save things.
Truth is, Ohio is not business friendly place, and more companies are going to leave (both large and small ones that many will never even know about) until things change.
It’s not entirely about Strickland. It’s the culture at city hall and the permanent politico folks in Columbus.
Dance your happy dance if you want to, but realize that you’re better off creating real NEW jobs, using the brain power that exists in the Atlanta area, because these are the people that care about the community, and will help to grow the culture (and not just their paychecks) in the future.
After losing the Headquarters of Bell South, Scientific Atlanta and Georgia Pacific, Georgia has plenty of people who need jobs but how long will they actually stay? Georgia no longer has the talent to produce growing companies so it seemed like a good idea to pay for one who has reduced employee count every year for two decades! NCR has lost out to the competition to the point they are seeking corporate welfare to stay afloat. Its not as if NCR is a growing company because they are not.
Does anyone have a concept of basic economics? At all? Georgia did not “pay” $60MM for NCR to come. Most of that “payment” comes from tax credits and abatements that the State had not realized and would never realize. If NCR didn’t locate here, then it wouldn’t file corporate income taxes here. In other words, aside from some basic workforce training costs, most of that money is not now nor ever would be in the state treasury. It’s not as if the state wrote a $60MM check to NCR. It simply excused it from taxes that it would owe… so it’s an essential zero-sum proposition for the state…
… for waiving the right to collect certain taxes for a fixed of time, the State gains 2000+ high-paying jobs for its citizens… ALL of whom will pay income tax… and sales tax…. and most likely property tax… and on it goes.
So which do you prefer? If the state didn’t have the statutes in place to provide these tax breaks, then the companies would not locate here. Either way you DO NOT collect the $60MM in taxes. But with this system, in return for a short-term abatement/credit, you grow white-collar jobs in different areas of the state.
The history of NCR is as follows: Established 125 years ago and at the peak had over 60,000 jobs in the Dayton area. Fast forward to the Mark Hurd years where he was bread through growth in the NCR organization. He utlized tax breaks to ship infrastructure positiosn oversea’s which further depleted the corporate number of associates in the Dayton market; he did, however, respect the fact that Patterson created NCR as the backbone of the Dayton area and kept corporate jobs there as a result. Fast forward to Nuti…as a condition of employment he was required to move from NY to Dayton, never happened. He subsequently pulled executive positions to NYC and clearly created a fact finding team to seek out a tax haven to move the corporation. I am a former associate and I can promise you that many of the associates will NOT move with the organization as has been referenced in this document. It’s a sad day for Dayton and Nuti should be ashamed for putting his own stock wealth ahead of the history of this organization. Patterson is rolling over in his grave as we speak.
The AJC should require everyone to take and pass an IQ exam before posting a comment. A lot of these remarks are just plain ignorant. Like Bob stated this basic economics, and those that are posting negative comments don’t get it. I have to give kudos to Gov Perdue on this one.
Sounds like a good deal from here in Dayton. I note that NCR is actually building a manufacturing plant down in Columbus. That will employ 900. I had thought NCR had offshored all their manufacturing by now, so a bit of a suprise to see them building capy. stateside. $70k jobs might be weak for Georgia, but that’s good money in Ohio.
One interesting angle about this deal is that the trend seemed to indicate NCR was already moving ops to the Altanta era. They apparently have a training center and customer service operation out in Peachtree City. So this was the final phase, perhaps, of a multi-stage move? Did Perdue give NCR $$$ to do what they might have been planning –or considering—all along?
But yeah, sounds like a good move in the long run, if NCR can turn itself around. They were a presence in Dayton (in the recent past) more as a donor to charities and arts, not as a force in the local economy. We are driven more by defense spending for IT, R&D, and intel stuff now. Professional, scientific, and technical things.
Bob and so the Laws of Unintended Consequences begins. Who knows where it will lead. Based on your premise it is all upside to recruit companies outside Georgia. It is agreed that you generate jobs which generate income taxes and consumption taxes. At the outset it is indeed a winning proposition. But I think it is just the opening salvo. Today Georgia does reap taxes from established Georgia companies. The taxes that these companies pay are the foundation for the state budget process. These companies have now become fair game to re-locate outside Georgia. Now some would argue that this is war. If you can’t win then hurt your enemy. BTW to I imagine that to Ohioans Georgia is the enemy. So if I’m in corporate development in Ohio I make very aggressive offers. As you point out any company that relocates generates revenue which is gravy. Any monies received is monies that would not be received without the relocation. Now if Georgia wants to keep Coke, or Delta, or Simmons they will have to grant some tax concessions. Now that will create some revenue losses Ohio now has motivation and a blueprint. It will be interesting to watch from Maryland as this plays out.
It’s not a zero sum game b/c those 1,000 – 2,000 people and their families need services, use roads, firefighters, and schools. Sure they pay state income tax but the state gov’t effectively zeroed out NCR’s need to pay income tax for the next decade or so given their 2008 earnings and assuming all domestic income was realized in GA rather than around the country. Sure NCR stands to save millions when or if they make a profit again but I’m getting the feeling that wasn’t the whole story b/c NCR wouldn’t pay anywhere near 56M over 5 yrs in state income tax based on their structure, revenue, etc. Why does my company have to pay these taxes when NCR doesn’t? What’s to keep Home Depot from calling up Purdue now and asking for the same deal or they pull up their 4,000+ employees and head to Florida? What’s to keep Ohio from calling UPS and offering 100M tax credit refunded up front for them to move to the old DHL/Airborne site? Georgia has specifically targeted a company w/ incentives to steal jobs from another state rather than create new ones on its own. We’ve told our neighbors that we’ll fight for the bottom to steal jobs rather than make them ourselves by fostering entrepreneurs, or convincing companies to partner with our schools for more research opportunities.
Georgia already has one of the lowest corporate income taxes in the country and if we needed to wipe that completely to attract a rapidly shrinking has been company, we’re in very sorry shape if Texas, Florida, or the Carolinas figure out they can get our Fortune 500’s to uproot for various tax cuts or incentives.
I worked for NCR for almost 2 years and saw how their corporate mantra was lets make it to the next quarter. They implemented hiring freezes almost every quarter after the 1st month so they could make the next quarter’s earnings regardless of business need. They sold their future HQ location and leased it back so they could book some money for that quarter. The fact that Purdue doubled the incentives of Ohio when he probably didn’t have to is like others have said money he left money on the table. Nuti took it and ran all the way to the next measure that will bump up his bonus for the year.
NCR already had a lot of the remaining R&D jobs left in the states in Duluth. The rest has been shipped off overseas and its not coming back regardless of Purdue’s tax incentives. We’ve also garnered significant ill will to grab some jobs that will likely get laid off soon enough at the rate NCR has been cutting its headcount. The manufacturing plant/training centers were wins but to move the HQ kind of changes things b/c its not about job creation anymore.
So go cheer, celebrate etc…then try to get a job at NCR that pays anything decent. They’re fighting their way off the Fortune 500 faster than those jobs will benefit the GA economy. Georgia may fancy itself business friendly but it appears we’ve made it too friendly and all too many of our homegrown businesses get fat and uncompetitive where they get bought up by more aggressive companies that then dump the thousands of HQ employees they no longer need. Ask yourself how many Bellsouth employees jobs completely disappeared and see if NCR came anywhere near making up for it.
Companies like Coke, AFLAC, Home Depot and Delta aren’t going anywhere. Delta pulled out of Minnesota when the Northwest merger took place to stay in Atlanta. Companies like UPS and NewellRubbermaid recently moved to Georgia–just like NCR is doing. Kia will be making cars by the end of the year in West Point. Georgia is very pro-business and the population is very attractive to businesses. NCR got a good deal, and Georgia (namely Duluth and Columbus) got a great deal more.
It’s certainly a loss for OH as well as other northern states who insist on maintaining an unfriendly business climate through high taxes and regulation. When will they ever learn? Unfortunately not until all the manufacturing is gone. I am originally from CT and the same thing happened there 30 years ago when the manufacturing base left the state. Sadly, people in those small mill towns are waiting for those jobs to come back but they never will. If you want good manufacturing jobs in OH or CT or any other place for that matter then throw the liberal anti-business politicians out and elect some leaders who understand what is needed to make business thrive.
It is not a “northern” problem. It is a problem with the business climate in general, and a result of the Republican leadership that has damaged Ohio’s ability to retain business. Since your obviously don’t know what your talking about (not a surprise for a Republicant). They were in control of the Ohio state house, senate, and governorship for 16 years, so don’t blame “liberal” politicians. The problem is the bottom feeders in the South who can’t grow their own local business into world class operations, so they bribe other companies to relocate there at the expense of their tax base.
Given the financial stewardship of some of your stalwart companies- Home Depot, UPS, etc. you have a lot to learn about business and job creation… Atlanta isn’t the end all, be all. Too many people, too much pollution, poor housing selection, long commutes, and of course that inbred southern ignorance. No thanks, I’ll pass.
Taxes, taxes and more taxes. Per the article this wasn’t the only reason that NCR made the decision to relocate to Atlanta. I do think that the CEO’s No.1 reason to move is because of the skilled labor force is BS. Atlanta, has an International Airport, some of the top colleges in the country and business friendly. People are taking this topic to personal, especially stealing from our neighbors comment. I am grateful to have leadership that understands business. What creative things that Ohio’s leadership are doing to draw businesses there. Maybe they need a bigger airport, set up a business partnership with a China.. oops, Georgia already did that. My point is that, it is not anyone’s fault but the leadership in Ohio for being lame and not get off their asses to ensure economy growth.
You have to realize its a business decision. Georgia doesn’t necessarily have anything Ohio doesn’t have. Our public schools are terrible and we have ridiculous traffic given our population. Cost of living is a bit higher here and most of our top grads get paid better in other states. Hand Home Depot enough money and they’ll leave town. The same goes for UPS and Rubbermaid…they found their way here b/c GA made the business case they were cheaper. The moment that stops being the case, expect them to leave.
NCR is an Ohio institution w/ 125 years of history there. It’s fallen on some serious hard times…much of it management’s fault. Virtually everything but Coca Cola was founded somewhere else. Delta’s first home was Monroe, Lousiana so we are mostly comprised of transplanted industries. Purdue isn’t the first to lure businesses away but to celebrate this like its actually something positive rather than realize its nothing more than a corporate giveaway to a company so willing to walk away from its tradition as a company that was built on the hard work of the Ohio people who made it an international company by the 1890’s, the largest IPO of its time, and a huge innovator through the 1980’s.
Jim,
It has nothing to do w/ liberal or conservative…NCR doesn’t have any real regulation or union issues b/c it doesn’t build anything in Dayton. NCR isn’t GM…although they share some common figures in their past. NCR instead is a company that long ago lost its way as a tech company when it sold its manufacturing but never figured out how to make money off software. The company is far too dependent on building boxes be it ATM’s, Kiosks, Point of Sales, or self checkout to make real economic profits when the product is dominated by a hundred lbs of steel, plastic, and commodity computer parts that any other company can throw together and undercut NCR.
Companies found their way to Georgia even when Democrats were in Office…low employee protections, low taxes, and cheap labor bring companies here. Last time I checked much of Georgia’s relatively light manufacturing base got shipped off long ago to Asia, Mexico, etc. Our remaining industries are carpet which are too low margin/heavy to make overseas, and a single foreign automaker. Honda’s been building cars in Ohio successfully since 1982 and never needed a layoff. Maybe company management has something to do w/ the ability for a company to thrive anywhere.
This is great news for Georgia. I really do feel bad for the people of Dayton I know this loss must greatly hurt their economy. Metro Atlanta has become a mecca for business on a global scale with giants like Coke, Home Depot, Cox, and so much more; and Columbus is the 2nd most important city in Georgia for global business being home to such big compnaies as Aflac, TSYS, Synovous, Carmike, Toms Foods, and much more With the Kia Plant halfway between Columbus & Atlanta I think that these two cities will lead the state in new job growth over the next few years and probaly be the main two stablizers for our states economy.
LoveATL,
NCR coming to ATL has nothing to do w/ flights to Shanghai. NCR can’t compete in China. Kiosks, ATM’s, etc all assume a high cost of labor. An NCR self checkout terminal costs $20,000 w/o service contract. The setup at your avg Home Depot costs $100,000 + service. There isn’t a business case for this level of automation when your cost of labor is sub $0.50/hr. Pretty much all of NCR’s growth has been in high cost areas like the UK, Germany, Japan, and the US. Most people would rather talk to a person than push buttons on a terminal and bag stuff yourself. Much of the design, development, and testing already takes place in Cebu, Philippines where a software engineer makes $5,000-10,000/yr vs. $60,000-$100,000 here. The R&D jobs in Duluth were already here and had survived 2 decades of mismanagement w/o needing $60M in tax incentives.
Georgia may have some top colleges but go look at how many GT or Emory grads leave for other states b/c our local companies aren’t paying competitive salaries. Ask yourself if you’d rather see high paying jobs from Intel/AMD/Cisco for GT EE grads where 6 figures is the norm in 3-5 yrs or $10/hr jobs putting cars together down in south GA? Purdue could have just given tax credits to any companies founded/building R&D centers near GT/Emory/UGA campuses which would have brought/kept far more high paying jobs in Georgia. Instead we bought our way to a slowly dying 125 yr old “tech” company.
I understand business just fine. That’s why I left NCR for a role that pays me 50% more in an industry that has actual growth opportunities. Sure we had layoffs but the avg salary of the engineers, testers, admins, and middle management we laid off averaged $150k. At the same time we manage the same net income as NCR in ‘08 while needing 1/8 as much revenue and 1/10 the # of people. I understand that NCR isn’t competitive against most of its peers and bringing it here is far less of a win than everyone’s making it. This win does have costs as there is no free lunch except maybe for Nuti who probably kept his job by getting this sweetheart deal. Even as an NCR alum that was based in Duluth, I can appreciate how much NCR’s employees prided itself on its Dayton, OH heritage. It was the AT&T merger that really destroyed the heart of the company and ever since it’s been on autopilot.
The old saying the south shall rise again,It has definiatelly in Georgia,Which will out populate Ohio in probally 10 years,Ohio may be down for the count for now,But I have a sneaky feeling well come back
,the question is when GOVENOR STRICKLAND,WE NEED JOBS
When the good people of Dayton and Ohio finally get over their anger, frustration, and bitterness, and actually visit Atlanta and Columbus, GA, they’ll find great, progressive Southern cities that are nice places to live, work, and raise families! Your feelings are understandable, but please quit hammering these cities without knowing anything about them. http://www.visitcolumbusga.com
John F – the Buckeye state is wasting away and you have the arrogance to come here and post absolute nonsense. Your attitude towards others is not what our values are about. I am a proud resident of Upper Arlington, Ohio and I can see for myself, as many millions of others Ohioans can, what the “Brain Drain” and DEMOCRATIC “leadership” and thinking (voting)is doing to our ONCE great state.
As far an inbred arrogance goes, you can travel all over rural OH and see just as many if not more Confederate flags and “rednecks”. The South may take the blame for that, but for someone that tries to project “intelligence” you are NOT well traveled and have no clue what is happening all over the YOUR state.
So John F, since you have all the answers, YOU fix the problems of Ohio. Georgia and the other Southern states are obviuosly doing something RIGHT to attract our former natives and businesses. Ohio will be the next Michigan with an attitude like yours.
John F – loosing your job is hard, but you have to admit that NCR is doing what is best for the company, but unfortunately staying in OH is not what is best. You are going to have to, without the bitter insults, pick yourself up and look for another job.
The one person in Ohio that fights for business is Les Wexner, founder of Limited companies. Wexner is the biggest asset we have, but Stickland can’t use him and Wexner won’t be used. He actually fought and WON to have NetJets, a Warren Buffet gem, stay in Columbus after they threatened to move their base to Raleigh, NC. The irony of all of this is that the Wright brothers are from Dayton, OH. Yes, the two men that started aviation are from Dayton, but did the critical work on the Outer Banks of NC!
Georgia and it’s Gov. deserve congratulations. Gov. Strickland and the citizens of Ohio need to work hard to stop the bleeding, period.
Polls of this ilk appear to suggest an ‘us’ versus ‘them’ approach to growing our state economy as compared to other states in the US. Is that helpful or productive? Are we the United States of America or some ramshackle of smaller nation-states feverishly competing with each other is a survival of the fit mode? Over time sure we’ll gain a few enterprises that seek the advantages that locating in Georgia might provide; and surely we’ll continue to see a few leave Georgia for other states for similar reasons. Can’t we avoid wallowing in gratuitous self congratulation of this sort? Can’t we rather continue to build the intellectual capital, the physical infrastructure, the business climate, and other attributes that are attractive to companies without resorting to puerile back-slapping at the slightest hint of modest success?
Can’t we just all get along?? Now, everyone hold hands and sing around the campfire!
Please!! If you lost your job here due to it moving to another state or country, your attitude would change in a heartbeat. As stated by many, Dayton and Ohio itself would have kept a 125 year old company in place, if they did the right things.
Companies aren’t going to leave GA for the north or west coast it is too expensive these days. The only competition for ATL would be another southern city -chiefly Dallas-centrally located, Intl Airport, very business friendly state, mild weather, workforce, arts and entertainment etc.
Thanks Bone. The fact that we know not each other should inform your assertion regarding the mutability of my attitude when confronted with an altered circumstance. NCR has made its decision (for whatever reasons). Any appearances of smugness on our part – intended or otherwise – as the beneficiaries of that decision should properly be viewed as infantile behavoir. If that sort of behavoir works for you, so be it.
To those who think that Georgia has started something new here by attracting a Fortune 500 company to move, let’s look at what Georgia has lost in the last few years. Bell South was bought by AT&T which was located in San Antonio but then moved to Dallas. Georgia-Pacific was bought by the largest private company in the US (Koch) and is no longer listed on the Fortune 500 list.
Other states and cities are more aggressive in their strategy than Georgia.
Chris – totally agree. The only problem with doing business in TX is that employees are finding the COL is very high. The housing market has remained untouched in cities like Houston. Most native Texans will tell you they are fearful the Lonestar state is destined to become the next CA, with RE skyrocketing.
I am a 28 year employee of NCR corporation. I grew up in Dayton, went to John H. Patterson High School, and started my career with NCR in Dayton after graduate school. In 1995, I was in Chicago field operations and was given a choice of whether to return to Dayton or come to Atlanta. Although all my family and friends were in Dayton, I chose Atlanta because I expected the job market in Ohio and in Dayton specifically would be shrinking. I felt Georgia provided better opportunities for myself and my family. Regardless of my personal choices along the way, I am very proud of NCR for having been a truly sustainable business for the past 125 years. The reason for our longevity is our ability to re-invent ourselves and adjust to changing circumstances. I have many friends in Dayton, and I am truly sorry for their situations, but I applaud our NCR management for continuing the tradition of our founders, that is, to innovate, change and position the company to the best advantage of all our stake-holders worldwide. NCR is not just Dayton, Ohio. It is a global company of 22,000 wonderfully diverse employees. I welcome current employees who choose to relocate to the Atlanta area and our new hires as well.
The Equitable Building “auction” is just the beginning. Funds waiting to pick up distressed properties still are standing on the sidelines, waiting to see “blood in the streets.” As for the Equitable Building, the $49/sq. ft it went for at auction is not expected to set the mark for towers in downtown, though it could put downward pricing pressure on similar, proximate Class B buildings. If Capmark tries to sell the Equitable Building in three or four months, that’s when the sale price could impact market pricing downtown.
Yes. I think that’s a sign of things to come, for sure. Though I’m not directly in the commercial industry — I sell residential real estate here in Atlanta — if the downturn in the residential real estate market over the last 12 months is any indication then it’s going to be a tough situation for folks who are in the commercial market — developers and agents alike.
Atlanta (and Georgia in general) does not create jobs or companies. It raids them from other states who have done all the work. Please note that these comments are in the Atlanta Journal Constitution, a Cox newspaper. And where was Cox founded? Dayton, Ohio, of course.
To Buckeye @June 3
“Yes, the two men that started aviation are from Dayton, but did the critical work on the Outer Banks of NC!” Uh, no, they did the critical work in Dayton. They tested the results in NC because it had favorable winds, soft sand to land on, and was so remote no one would snoop on what they were doing. Also note, nobody in North Carolina came up with the idea of powered flight or had the determination to pursue it.
I’ve seen this before. A change of venue, to change the culture of a dying company. My guess is that not more than 20 percent of the employees will move, so along the way they can shed as many employees as possible, and replace it with “new blood”. This company will be gone in two years.
I am from Dayton (and proud of it) and live 10 minutes from Duluth, you will travel on one of the most congested highways in the USA and your pay will be cut in half. Welcome to Georgia
For the all-too few metro Atlanta citizens who have been trying for many years to call attention to our area’s transportation failings, recent evidence that an increasing number of influential political and business leaders– and media– have finally “got the message” is heartening. Now is past time for meaningful “action”. Years and years of lack of vision, knowledge, true leadership and political courage regarding the need for increased public financial support for all appropriate and proven modes ef transportation–not just highways–have been disappointing and costly for the future. Now there is reason to “hope” that some meaningful “action” is in the offing, sooner than later.
This is funny and sad…funny as in: “How’d he know that? Was he here today”? Sad as in: “Where’s the bottom”?.. I’m in the process of packing to move to our other building Monday to consolidate because my whole department was dissolved. The entire floor will be empty as of Monday. Today there are 3 of us left on this floor. There was 16 people here in January.
It’s a race to the bottom that nobody wants to win. We print money at an alarming rate. Buy physical gold because we’ll be a third world country soon. Can you say Zimbabwe?
Please review your comments before pressing the “submit” button. The downturn is part of the economic cycle. Just relax. If everyone in Atlanta had just “relaxed” a bit instead of going fiscally bonkers, then this part of the cycle would not have come so soon or dropped to such depths.
I’m shocked to see a story about North Dakota’s economy–I’m going back there on business again next week. Also, was in Wyoming just 2 weeks ago. The story really misses the mark–I don’t think anything has changed in either state, (ND or WY); the real story is that things have changed in the OTHER states. Three states that I would put in with ND and WY: OK, AK and TX, again, due to intelligent use of natural resources and smart fiscal management. Again, we don’t hear much about this in the mainstream news–doesn’t fit the NE paradigm (flyover territory?).
Most of the people on my floor have been laid off, and my boss has been looking at me funny lately—I’ll probably be gone in a few weeks too. It’s depressing. I may go to law school to learn how to sue companies for big money.
We’ll have to wait and see. They have given it lip service in the past with no plan. GDOT started the design on many projects when Perdue started his first term based on his comments to address additional funding. All he did was sell bonds for a few initial projects, change the encumbered fund accounting system to a monthly pay out system , then back to the encumbered fund system. That is one reason why there is an immediate shortage of transportation funding. When you move proposed monthly payments to present worth, you hold all your money, leaving little for new projects. The other is due to paying off the bonds; this amounts to about 20% of GDOT’s budget.
The prioritization of projects based on need and not political influence is a must. Would someone PLEASE analyze the GRIP system and see what rate of return we have received on these 4 lane rural projects. Where is the development they were suppose to bring? It appears that there is very low traffic counts on these roads even after widening. Was this a wise investment considering the needs of the rest of the state?????
Having survived a a layoff my office is rather empty now. In the last 2 years have lost 3 people to moves and positions were not back filled and recently had 4 laid off. On my floor 1/3rd of the seats are now empty.
With a 15% reduction and tele-work to help retain staff, the office is very empty. Too bad they did not move to tele-work sooner to avoid leasing more space before the downturn.
injured on the job dec 2006 laid off mar 2007 (Yeah the had me still working for 3 months while injured,) finally got W/C to give surgery in Nov. 07 recieved release from Temp disbility and permission to return to work may 08, thats 14 mo. out of work folks for an injury Sports Heros get treatment and return to work in 3-4 mo. or less. been web searching jobs may 08 till current and have had 2 interviews and 3rd is scheduled today. been applying to min.2 aday each work day . still not working reg. job.
A lot of people are uses it as an excuse to work at home. People in this generation hate coming to an office anyway. We started with casual Friday, now they are naked at home or at the gym telling their boss they are at home working. This recession will bring some seriousness back into the workplace, through I think people are more concern with personal happiness than success. Glavine the pitcher for the Braves kind of showed the way of the new world. He was upset he was not fired on his terms, never entered his mind he had nothing to offer. Jobs have become entitlement just part of life like paved roads and running water. This recession may allow the employer to put the train back on the track. The auto industry leading the way. A man or woman can be proud of their job again. Isn’t is odd it is coming on a Democrats watch instead of the Republican watch.
So you are one of the people that gets his experience and, instead of investing his/her experience with the company that gave you that, you move on to the next higher paying job. Boy, there’s some loyalty for you!! What are you going to do when they cut your pay and/or don’t give you the bonus you think you deserve?
You talk about companies changing directions…seems people like you change direction and wonder why companies act as they do. Think about your own decisions and ask yourself why a company would want to keep you or someone else.
We have experienced some layoffs but not at an alarming rate and to be honest, the work-load seems to be the same for those of us still here. I have not noticed an influx of work or responsibilites suddenly shifting my way. I think the so called economic recession for some companies afforded the comapny the opportunity to eliminate some people they’d have to probably go court to get rid of but they used the recession as a means to do so without as much of a potential legal battle being involved. They simply eliminated the position and not the person and the person was welcome to apply for another job within the company but I have yet to see the ones that were ‘let go’ in a new position.
No, we haven’t had any layoffs..Sometimes though, I really wish that I was in an office alone..I get so sick of my coworker talking to her Mother 9-10 times a day..Half of those times they talk in baby talk and it drives me crazy..She lives at home with her Mom and I don’t think they ever talk at home..Then there are the times that she calls home to talk to the dog and cat or to ask her Mom what the animals are doing..
My buliding is over half empty. They got rid of 8 departments laying off about 140+ people. They outsourced 3 more departments. Our cubes are just hodge podge and there are whole sections that are just empty floor. (The building is over 10,000 sq ft is 75% empty.) My department went from 50 people to 20. Meanwhile, the company has shown a steady increase in profit quarter after quarter, harbors little debt, and the CEO will, more than likely, receive his bonus this year. Oh, my short term and long term disability was taken away. The company will only match 4% of my 401K instead of the previous 6%.
I guess I shuld be grateful I am still employed (and working 15 hours of overtime a week!)but it’s hard when you watch people who worked here 30 years get laid off and replaced with a $10 per hour temp or not at all. I’m no longer proud of where I work. I didn’t use to feel this way. It was a great company! The clients are upset now b/c it is taking longer to service them and we’re makign more errors. I don’t know if we’re going to make it.
I wouldn’t get too excited about the job market just yet! The jobless numbers are so skewed that they are worthless. They don’t take into account the number of people who are under-employed, in part time positions, those who have given up on looking for work or those that have been out of work so long that they’ve dropped off the government’s accounting. But as usual…the media is spinning the number as a good thing. And the traders are jumping all over the news to manipulate the market accordingly…as witnessed by the DOW surge and then drop as they grabbed some quick profits! I wish I could post stories to CNBC and other outlets to drive the market as I saw fit!
Ga wins for now, but Ohio can win as well. NCR will take the risk of leaving all of its talented workforce behind for new digs in the south.
All you talented engineers, techs and admin people need not roll over and sob. YOU HAVE what the new workers don’t have, that is the know how and inside scoop on what it takes to make a great machine! And for whatever NCR was lacking in manufacturing or marketing you (people of Dayton) have the ability to band together, form your own privately held company and compete with your former employers. NCR may have given up on Dayton, but the people dont have to give up on what they know how to do best. Now look for ways to do it better and COMPETE!
lets go buckeye make it a win win (its third and ten whatcha gonna do?)
Bone is right on the money! Ohio has an anti-business environment that most Ohioans like to ignore. With the uncertain tax liabilities associated to Strickland’s educational reform, if passed, businesses will be even more inclined to expand or move outside of the state of Ohio. Ohio has a very high effective tax rate and does not offer the Right to Work laws that other states do. Ohio needs a consistent long term pro-business policy. Tax incentives should be policy not a last hour inducement. That is why GA has been on the mind of so many business leaders for the past 40 years!
Ohio suffers from problems of its’ own making. Too much protection of union labor, taxes that are too high and a state government that is bloated, full of redundancies and corruption. Until the prideful Buckeyes wake up and realize there are more important issues than a football team in Columbus, states like Georgia are going to be the benefitiary of a more Ohio based companies relocating operations and headquarters. GM-Delphi-DHL-NCR, all offered last hour tax deals by Governor Strickland. All closed up shop or moved. Who’s next? Just to be clear, I was born, raised and once again live in Ohio. Watching this has been painful. Ohio is turning into a suburb of Detroit and it aint pretty! It is unfair and unrealistic to blame GA or Sonny Perdue for Ohio’s problems.
I sense that your heart is just not into blogging. Your posts make the talking heads on CNBC seem enlightening.
If I’m wrong, I would suggest that you study some of the sharper blogs like Calculated Risk, Mish’s Global Economic Trend Analysis, Karl Denninger’s Market Ticker, and Yves Smith’s Naked Capitalism.
Anne,
Mortgage rates are rising and will continue to rise because the yields on U.S. Treasury bonds are rising (which ultimately influence mortgage rates). Despite the Federal Reserve’s foolish attempts at “quantative easing” the Treasury bond market is going to do what it needs to do.
If you believe in “green shoots” and the recovery story, then Treasury bond yields (and mortgage rates as a result) will continue to increase because investors/traders and pulling their money for the safe but low-yield environment of U.S. Treasuries and investing that money in riskier more rewarding assets like stocks. This is the story that CNBC and the Federal Reserve is promoting.
If you don’t believe the spin of CNBC and the Federal Reserve, then you would surmise that U.S. Treasury rates are headed higher (and mortgage rates as a result) because the Obama Administration is selling $1.8 trillion in new goverment debt this fiscal year, plus rolling over several hundred billion of expiring short term government debt. This new supply of U.S. government bonds is flooding the market and driving down the price of U.S. Treasuries. This in turn means that the yields must go up to attract new buyers.
Also, bear in mind that the European Union nations and the United Kingdom are planning to issue $3.4 trillion in new government debt between now and the end of 2010. And, the Obama Administration plans to engage in deficits of over a trillion dollars per year for the next few years. All of this means, that the bond markets will be flooded with a great supply of government bonds than has every happened before. The result will likely be rising yields for U.S. Treasury bonds, and thus rising mortgage rates.
The only way around this if there is a major deflation in the currency supply. However, that would result in a 1930’s economic collapse, and the Federal Reserve and Obama Administration are doing everything in their power to avoid this.
The bottomline is that mortgage must rise. However, can anyone explain to me how the housing market (and by extension the RMBS and CMBS markets) will recover if mortgage rate increases reduce the pool of available buyers and force more home “borrowers” into forclosure because they can’t re-fi or avoid their resetting or recasting mortgage, which in turn will increase the supply of existing homes for sell at distressed prices and further depress the value of other existing homes and discourage new home construction?
I guess the “green shoots” and China’s continued drive to create industrial overcapacity will save us.
lets not count the chickens before the eggs hatch ncr has an uphill battle when they try to hire educated, trainable employees they should be ok with hqrts in gwyt. but o boy when they try in columbus might be different story..
If our Elected Spenders in the Georgia Assembly wanted to save money for their constituents on legal costs there are some simple laws they could actually pass for the benefit of the taxpayers of the State of Georgia.
Here are several ideas that will never become law because lawyers make the laws.
A) Get rid of jury trials for divorce. Georgia is one of the last states that still allow them.
B) When a couple gets a marriage license they should have to file a prenuptial form provided by the court. This would set out separate property and other issues such as agreement or not to alimony from one party to another, agreement or not to joint custody of any and all children, etc. There are many, many questions that could be asked on the form and answered by the parties so that in the event of a future divorce the parties have the prenuptial as evidence of intent at the time of the parties union.
C) Personal Injury Claim: There is a disability grid that provides payment for various injuries. Lose a hand at 24 years of age earning 50K/year – some underwriter has already figured out what that claim is worth. I think GA. should take that grid (or make a new one) and make all insurance companies pay out that sum certain to a victim of an injury within thirty days. Yes, there will be many times when the injury is not determinative in thirty days, but I think there could be a mechanism to get the victim some money soon. If negligence is an issue the money should be deposited in escrow. Why? Because victims will not need lawyers to get that first sum of money. They will not lose a third of it right away. If the victim wants more money than the grid system allows they have the right to sue for more. Lawyers will not be taking cases that they already know will not generate enough money to make their efforts profitable.
D) LOSER PAYS. The first argument we always here is that mean poor people can not bring law suits. That is really not true since if a person has nothing they have no ability to lose anything. The second argument is people will be hesitant to sue because if they lose the costs of litigation would be too overwhelming. The answer to these and all other arguments is for the State of Georgia to create a bond system for Civil Defense Cases. That means an attorney will buy a bond for every case they file. The bond amount will be based on the case and eventually the success of the attorney. Attorneys that win cases would pay a lesser bond amount than attorneys who take every case that comes into the door and hope they win enough to pay the rent. Individuals could buy a bond to protect their assets. People with no ability to pay would file a pauper’s affidavit. But this would weed out a lot of frivolous suits which clog our courts every day.
E) Each County should have forms on line for simple court matters so that we, the Citizens of GA., would not need attorneys. Fulton County actually does a decent job on their web site.
There are a lot of ways to save attorney fee costs that our Elected Spenders in Congress could cause to happen but they are much to busy getting reelected and making sure their friends and family stay employed.
Where is my 401K/IRA bailout? Oh, I forgot. I worked, saved, paid taxes and now I have to bail out unions, pay government employee benefits/retirement that are 1000 times better than a self employed person like me could ever afford, pay for Automobile Manufacturers corporate mistakes, pay for AIG loses and probably pay for California too.
I wish I were a BF of BO. Life would be sweet!!
I think individuals, even bad ones, make better owners of sports franchises than companies. Ted would probably have been a more liberal with the spending than AOL and Liberty Media.
Also, it has deprived us of his antics. Back when he was racing ostriches at the old stadium … those were the days.
I think selling the TV part of his empire to Time Warner was also a mistake. How much more entertaining would it be if Ted and Rupert Murdoch were the respective owners of CNN and Fox News?
No layoffs at my company but the office is empty because everyone works at home now. Its my company’s newest cost saving strategy. In an IT firm, you really don’t need an office building anymore. Everything is done with remote teams. There are pros and cons to this. You are not stuck in an office with a bunch of neurotic people caught up in habitual behavioral patterns. The negative is that you have zilch contact with humans other than the one or two dimensional communication mechanisms of conference calls or email. It would be nice if we could bridge the two a bit better. One is too much humanity and the other is too little humanity (too isolating).
Also, poor transport is the main cause of poor air quality. What intelligent, healthy person wants to live in a community where you can’t go outside because the air is too unhealthy?
While these are and will continue to be challenging times in Atlanta’s real estate industry Cousins couldn’t be in better hands both today and going forward. Best of luck Larry and Tom, thanks for all you have done for Atlanta and the Company.
It sounds like a lot of other “bull” that this admin. has lied about. When first introduced this “cash for your clunker” promised $5,000 for your under 18mpg vehicle, now it’s already down to $3500. If it sounds too good to be true, it is!
I bought a ‘95 Ranger new in ‘96 for $11,300.I’m still driving it.It has 130,000 miles on it and it will last another 10 years.It gets 26 miles to the gallon in all over driving and has not needed any repairs.Even if this vehicle did qualify for a government rebate.I wouldn’t part with it.
Hey you unemployed Union Democrats…here you are unemployed, one step from bankruptsy and your hero is sightseeing in Paris….yes sir…a true man of the people.
Commercial real estate will continue it’s southward descent. There was a real estate “bubble” in commercial real estate, just like housing. Buyers were bidding up prices on properties with low cap rates. Now with jobs sputtering and the consumer in hiding, the engine that drives commercial real estate growth is tapped out.
I am an NCR employee, but work neither in GA or OH. In my work experience, I have been both hired on by a company coming into my geographic area, and fired by an outgoing company. In my tenure here, I have seen employees laid off due to economic constraints and seen employees whose managers CREATED positions in order to keep them. I have spent a great deal of time in Dayton, and a great deal of time all over Georgia. There’s a greta deal of perspective to be had by this man’s opinion.
Dayton has been losing jobs for decades now. Dayton used to be the place to be if you were in the technology, aviation, or tire business. I hate that the employees in Dayton are upset about losing their jobs (or more pointedly, not taking relocation offers), but what NONE of them realize is that theyre not as mad about losing their job as they are about not having many options left. The governor is upset that the state of Ohio did not have the option of offering what the Atlanta area has to offer. The Ohio state government has been saying that ever since my grandfather lost his job from a Dayton plant sixty years ago.
BRAVO to NCR for keeping their company in the US in the face of dwindling respect for the American worker.
BRAVO to Georgia for allowing such a large corporation the opportunity to make that happen.
BRAVO to all the NCR employees that follow the new company in its new direction and migrate from Dayton to Columbus/Gwinnett/wherever it is.
Stop the freakin subsidies !!! If you are considering buying a new car off a lot, I as a penny pinchin’ taxpayer should not be subsidizing you to do so. Buy a used car to save money or pay for the whole damn thing yourself if you insist on a new car. The freakin’ gov needs to stop these crap ideas!
Nobody put a gun to those people’s head when they were buying a gas guzzler in the first place. When I bought my cars, I made a decision that was based on my finances and how much I can afford to spend on gas. If idiots driving gas guzzlers thought it was their birth right to drive those kind of cars, I should be subsidizing their stupidity with my taxes. This insanity has to STOP! Once and for ALL!!
CUZ has under-performed its peer group since the beginning of this decade.
CUZ’s entrance into the condo business at or near the top of the market was a bad management decision and not just in hindsight. CUZ may have a lionized history in Atlanta, but their recent performance and strategic decisions leave nothing to brag about – unless you like bragging about making bad investments and bad management decisions.
Bravo for blowig the corporate executives and making them feel good about their decisions. There is a difference between NCR and the other companies that have left over the years…. NCR was founded in Dayton and had a long standing tradition of aiding its growth. Now it has started a new tradition of catering to the current chief’s whim.
It’s about the environment you dumb *2sses! We have been giving away tax monies for generations to other countries for their causes. It is your small simple minded reasoning that elected Bush. Don’t you learn?!!! Just fools….
Anyway you cut it, its still TAXPAYER funds going into buying a vehicle, ultimately its our children that will have to pay the price for Washington’s idiocy. So go ahead, rob the future to fuel political games and future fiscal stability. Borrowing from Peter to pay Paul only lasts until Peter runs out of money…. and that where we are now……
I do not believe the Gov’t can change the financial destinies of these companies and America since they have not tackled the real problem. That is we, they, and all guilty parties should not live in Debt. You can have this for only this much a month, has to go. Once the wiggle room is gone from a families income, how many new car purchases are we going to see? Not many buyers(ref. supply vs demand), as pay check to pay check gets tighter and tighter. Just think in 5 years if you still have a job, you can own this wore out new car. In just 10 years you can own this wonderful travel trailer, an in just 15 to 30 years you can actually own your home if you continue to pay your taxes and the payments, repairs and such. This type of economy is self defeting, and I hope the youth can learn from where we went wrong to change the policies and actions. Pay with cash.
I think overall this is a higher estimation of declining percentages. Many consumers in this economy would rather do home repairs themselves rather than paying someone else to do it.
Giving someone a dollar to buy a product that costs a hundred dollars does not help. Consumers shouldn’t be lured into buying something they ultimately can’t afford.
Any proceeds from the governments investment will revert back to the government. This is
a long way from reverting back to the taxpayers. No telling how the money that will revert
back will be spent, but the chance of it benefiting the taxpayers if not 100% with how
congress spends money.
It’s pretty funny when you try to slam someone for being dumb and you can’t even spell Bankruptcy right thank you “The Voice” for proving yourself an idiot. And sure you can have Japanese companies build more factories over here but we still won’t see the corporate taxes ever help out because your president set us up for failure.
We’re going to reward people who didn’t see gas prices rising above $2.00 per gallon with an incentive to buy a more fuel-efficient car? Are you joking me? So we’re going to “pay” people to get out of their crappy Explorers and TrailBlazers which were the very vehicles that got the domestic automakers fat and happy before fuel prices shot-up…
Sure makes sense to me…here again, you do right, buy a fuel efficient car so you can plow your savings into things like education and retirement, and for what? What is the incentive for “playing by the rules?”
Punish the stupid I say! Why should anyone get an incentive for NOT making the most of their disposable income?
Other points to consider…The way that the EPA calculates gas mileage just changed for this last model year…what calculation will be used? The one used for when the car was sold new, or this current method? Also, how do I get my Obama money? I’m going on eBay right now and buy a barely running SUV so that I can get $4500 trade in for a new car…more than one way to skin a cat…
I believe the city and the state must work together to attract more corporations to relocate here as in NCR or go the international arena and attract international companies to relocate their offices here like Invesco did from England. Georgia must leverage everything the states officers to beat out states like New York and Califirnia or anywhere else with high taxation, cost of living and office space. When we are able to show the city or state in a competitive light, the real estate markets and job status will begin to improve.
I disagree with your comments about Isakson’s PR stunt proposing the distribution of GM shares to taxpayers (people who pay taxes not just file returns) . However he wouldn’t get covered in the uber liberal MSM if it wasn’t for this “stunt”. And I include the AJC in this category.
Frank D, great idea on the eBay thing. To bad if you read you would have realized it has to be registered and insured for the past year. Typical, read the headline and nothing else and come to a great conclusion like yours….. I really don’t know why people are upset, it is another step towards achieving a better, greener world, but no one wants to pay for it or do anything about it and if they do they’ll complain about wasting taxing payer money. Where else is it going to come from?
If you think about it it replaces at least a million cars, at about say at least 2.5 miles per gallon savings and the average mileage per year according to the AAA is 12,000 miles. So your on average saving 60 gallons per car per year. So 60,000,000 gallons a year. At $4 a gallon, your looking at saving $240,000,000 a year roughly….Then according to the KBB and AAA, a car has a duration of normal use for 10-15 years. Well times 240,000,000 to 10yrs or 15yrs you get about 2.4 Billion to 3.6 Billion in savings. So total cost is 4.5 billion to do all of this plus interest…. So for a little over maybe 900 million plus interest, we’ll sell a lot more cars, get a million clunkers off the road and produce not a substantiation amount less but a decent amount less of carbon emissions.
But hey, we spend a billion every two weeks in Iraq is it?……Lets cry about this 4.5 Billion investment on our kids futures and say that Obama is ruining the USA.
wait I amsorry, my numbers are wrong. For a $4,500 voucher you must get a car that gets at least 13 mpg more….Shoot,we’ll looks like my numbers would work out a lot better with this figure… Almost seems like we would gain A LOT from this proposal……
Equitable bid was a credit bid, or in this case, an under bid by lender related entity. Lenders, just like RE developers, form single asset entities to hold REO. Under bids can happen for a variety of reasons like tax implications or the ability to sue for deficiency later. Too much focus by press on the 56 cents aspect, but that does not establish a “market” value. Doubtful that Lender can get out whole upon disposition, but they will have an opportunity to properly list the property and give investors time to scrutinize the rent roll and inspect the property to make an educated offer. Availability of debt for a purchaser will be the big stumbling block in selling the asset, or any large RE asset these days.
Crescent bankruptcy restructure certainly is a sign of the times, but Phipps plaza will get built with no hitches. Crescent is the Sponsor of the project, but as the article indicates there is always a separatly capitalized entity formed to develop a project of this scope. Additionally, in almost all construction loans, equity is injected prior to debt, and Lender will honor their commitment to finish the project out to protect their interest and future ability to get repaid.
Wilbert News Strategies on behalf of Harold Dawson Jr.
June 11th, 2009 5:46 pm
Here’s a statement from Harold Dawson Jr., president and CEO of The Dawson Co. It has been posted by Tony Wilbert of Wilbert News Strategies.
The Dawson Company is proud of our involvement at Lindbergh City Center, where we have been involved for 10 years. Our development there, eon, is an award-winning multifamily project and a key element of the urban mixed-use development. That said, The Dawson Company is truly disappointed with the state of the real estate market and its negative impact upon eon. Success in the real estate market is largely based on timing. Unfortunately our timing with the eon development in partnership with MARTA, was not perfect. As part of its commitment to Lindbergh City Center, we attempted to restructure its loan agreement with the lenders on eon. The Dawson Company offered to put more money into the development, but the lenders, JPMorgan Chase and Regions Bank, rejected the offer. As a result, they have begun the foreclosure process on eon.
MARTA has invested over $100 million in the revitalization of the Lindbergh area and has been an outstanding partner. Lindbergh is a shining example of what can be achieved through public/private collaboratives; it is how the city of Atlanta was built. Award-winning for its green carbon footprint-reducing construction, attainable entry-level pricing, and aesthetically unique design that complements and respects the surrounding neighborhoods, eon is centerpiece of that vision as the first ownership opportunity at transit oriented development. eon is much larger than a condo loan; it is part of a larger neighborhood vision coming to fruition.
Despite this experience, we remain committed to the redevelopment of urban infill communities in Atlanta and beyond through our ability to create mixed-use, mixed-income, transit-oriented development. Currently, The Dawson Company, in partnership with Carter Real Estate, is continuing its legacy of excellence in urban redevelopment with The Banks, a 17.9 acre mixed-use development located in Cincinnati, Ohio. We are hopeful we will be able to move forward with the remaining development at Lindbergh City Center when market conditions improve. We also remain committed to developing additional award-winning residential development at Lindbergh City Center in collaboration with MARTA and the surrounding neighborhoods when the market and economy improves.
—
Harold Dawson, Jr., President & CEO, The Dawson Company
[...] goods store to give ticket discounts on expired items…the AJC has a great piece on the business for success model created by the Atlanta Braves…and the KC Star has an interesting look at the media secrecy policies being installed by new [...]
Since Obama became president, Isakson has generally reverted back to his moderate self. However, this nonsense about issuing stock certificates is the kind of crack-pot thinking that I’d expect from Tom Price, Lynn Westmoreland, or Dr. Phil G.
the class of 2009 will be called the forgotten class. pretty much every major law firm has either rescinded or delayed start dates for 2009. in fact, a lot will be starting the same year as graduates of 2010. some of the worst offenders have been large shops like Fish and Richardson. they waited until now to tell 1/3 of their class that their offer has been revoked. the market is dead and they waited until these grads had already turned down other offers, till the market was flooded with out of work IP attorneys, and just then said, yeah, we dont want you. talk about pathetic.
unfortunately, their story is not unique. some of the top law firms in the world are delaying starts, offering stipends for people to do pro bono or public service work.
the premise of your column is faulty–in fact there has been massive unemployment for law school grads for several years now. It is not just a recent thing.
But now it is affecting even the higher ranked schools. And since you media types only pay attention to the elite part of the profession, and ignore the lower ranked schools and the fate of their grads, the oversupply in the profession is finally being shoved in your face.
Very few lawyers or grads will talk to you without anonymity. Why not come to some internet sites that talk about the dark side of the legal profession?
My advice to these graduates is to do what a good friend of mine did in Florida. Take any clinicals and internships that will help you learn the logistics of practice. Go pass the bar and then hang out your shingle. Don’t tell me you can’t do it, especially if you want to eat.
I read the report where CCE’s CEO John Brock is the fourth highest paid executive in Atlanta. I happened to work with a number of CCE employees at the local level over the years and recently many of them were laid off. Since the layoffs Coke’s customer service has hit rock bottom and the attention to detail and knowledge of products is non-existent.
How can Mr. Brock justify his salary by laying off people with 15 – 30 years experience in Coke’s business to only replace them with less caring employees, who might cost a lot less in salary but way more in qualitative costs?
I have banned Coke (went to Pepsi)from my house for over a year due to the ripoff pay the board gives big executives at Coke. Now I will boycott the other greedy scammers of consumer money (WE pay for perks). There is NO exec in this country that deserves more than $5 mil for their services. I urge EVERYONE to boycott the following companies products. Oh. I forgot , the thieves at Ga Power have us over a barrel don’t they? Perhaps we should clean house at the PSC!!!
Rank Name Company Total compensation
1 Neville Isdell Coca-Cola Co. $23,132,324
2 Muhtar Kent Coca-Cola Co. $19,628,585
3 Richard H. Anderson Delta Air Lines Inc. $17,442,655
4 John F. Brock Coca-Cola Enterprises Inc. $11,927,626
5 Daniel P. Amos Aflac Inc. $10,783,232
6 Edward H. Bastian Delta Air Lines Inc. $10,774,131
7 Francis S. Blake Home Depot Inc. $9,244,533
8 David M. Ratcliffe Southern Co. $8,132,120
9 James M. Wells III SunTrust Banks Inc. $8,091,887
10 Martin Richenhagen AGCO Corp. $7,695,951
11 Stephen E. Gorman Delta Air Lines Inc. $7,617,930
12 Steven A. Cahillane Coca-Cola Enterprises Inc. $7,072,327
13 Alexander Cummings Coca-Cola Co. $6,728,738
14 Howard S. Cohen BlueLinx Holdings Inc. $6,697,030
15 Edward R. Muller Mirant Corp. $6,061,769
16 Gary Fayard Coca-Cola Co. $6,041,767
17 Irial Finan Coca-Cola Co. $6,031,825
18 Jose Octavio Reyes Coca-Cola Co. $5,921,323
19 Michael H. Campbell Delta Air Lines Inc. $5,908,949
20 Glen W. Hauenstein Delta Air Lines Inc. $5,906,525
Anyone want to guess how many Cokes that have to be sold to recover that outrageous EIGHTY SIX & ONE HALF MILLION DOLLARS top honchos are paid???? Want to guess how many laid off employees could be rehired for all that money???? Damn thieves!!!!
Nice article and info I find useful. I am filing papers this week to start a consulting business that gives corporate board compensation committees comparables for executive pay.
Remember, it is each company’s board of directors that sets executive compensation. If you are not a shareholder, you are not in the game. So, if one thinks executive pay for any company is out of bounds, be a shareholder and let your voice be heard by your company’s board of directors and its compensation committee. This should/will be easier under the forthcoming proposed SEC governance guidelines.
To criticize executive compensation, one must offer an alternative for executives leading these companies, many complex and global.
A few questions for consideration, among many…
Will great leaders be attracted or remain at these companies with lower compensation?
How will shareholders reward exceptional performance and penalize the substandard. And, how does/ should a board measure/weigh all the components of CEO and executive performance?
What will be the cost, including disruption, of replacing company leaders?
How will the markets react to the risk of leadership unknowns?
Base pay for all executives unless you meet sales, expense and profit goals. No profit, no bonus. No more stock options. I know the saying that you can’t get talent unless you use stock options. You can hire people off the street to lose money and not pay them very much.
This is what I consider the ugly side of democracy and capitalism. Like it or not, this is how our society has evolved and unless we collectively seek to make some major cultural changes, this will never stop. It’s not about the freedom to pursue the American dream anymore, it’s about fair play when the american tax payers have to start picking up the bill for the bail out of for profit companies. The question is…would these exectutives do any better or worse at their job is there salaries were 5 or six figures? Perhaps it would bring off their mansions and yachts and back down to earth with the rest of us. I am sure many of these executives do great things with their money as well by supporting charities, but in the end…it’s just not fair.
Gayla, yes it would make a difference. I am not an exec, but do know that most work an exhorbitant number of hours and are under alot of stress. If their pay is cut significantly, and they work less hours because it is not worth 70-80 hours a week, the company will not perform as well. Have you thought about what would happen if these execs (the good ones) left companies? When the companies fail, how many more employees will lose their jobs. This is about the free market. Let the market and the shareholders decide what pay is fair. If it is not fair, the shareholders of the company have the right to change that, not the government.
When companies are paying this kind of money, you know their goods and services are priced way too high. I think we should all quit doing business with them. As a matter of fact, I haven’t drank a coke product in the last year and I doubt I ever have another.
All of you who are talking about fair really have no idea what you are talking about. As long as the companies are owned by the people and not by the government, then the top execs should make what ever the shareholders deem “fair”. And for coca cola fair is 86mil, who are you to argue against that when you have no stake or knowledge in how the company is run. Capitalism is not fair, nor should it be.
Hey, Whine too much, if you really believe that shareholders have a significant influence in determining executive comp, then your candy-cane train to Fairyland is about to leave the station. If you really want executives who are responsive to the shareholders, then make derivative suits much easier to maintain and win.
Agree with “Whine”….Compare the average American who makes $60K/year with a poor person in Sudan or Darfur who makes 6 dollars per year—-What’s “fair” about that. It’s all relative and a lot of class envy.
Just for a little perspective, I worked at a company for 10 years, revenues of about $30B per year and about 100K employees. A co-worker was complaining about a $10M bonus the CEO received one year, (now keep in mind bonuses are intended to drive positive behavior), I then asked what if the company gave you a $100 extra in your annual bonus. Of course she said it would be insulting. Of course. The moral of the story being if you have a leader that motivates and makes sound economic decisions the money is better spent on him/her than giving $100 to every employee which would only tick them off
Only in their own minds are CEO’S worth the money they’re paid.Many of them presided over companies they ruined and still they walked off with huge chunks of money.They’re scamming their shareholders.
So those people not drinking coke any more (which is exactly how capitalism should work), what are you drinking? Unless it is tap water you are probably supporting the same behavior you find distasteful somewhere else.
No stock options? So you would rather the company pay all of the salary instead of letting the market pick up the tab to reward a good job? Precisely why that average $60K person isn’t entrusted to such decesions
I have a simple question. If your performance was unsatisfactory at your present job would you be terminated?
The companies that 20 Greedy Scammers mentions all have considerable debt, most have downsized their workforces and their stock is in the toilet.
The facts are ugly. I don’t believe the US has a moral compass anymore. It’s a pity. What was once the strongest country on the planet has become one filled with greed.
Someone has to make lots of money so makers of high end items can stay in business and pay their employees. So that servers at nice restaurants have someone to serve, etc. We need the wealthy to purchase things we make, stay at resorts that employ us, buy the first class seats, buy the jets, ad nauseum.
I do not see this type of discord about athlete’s salaries.
Also, Mr. Unger do not use the MEDIAN pay. Most people do not know what a median is (I know some of you do) so they think it is the average pay (which 20 Greedy scammers’ list makes clear is not the case).
As for not drinking Coke – did you not already know that $1.46 for 16 oz of fizzy sugar water was a rip-off to begin with? They deserve the money for hoodwinking us all. I mean, come on, they couldn’t just switch from cane sugar to high fructose corn syrup when cane sugar prices went up, they played bait and switch with the spurious “New Coke” deal. Sneaky, but brilliant.
What people do not truly understand is the scale of things in the US and the world. It is hard to step back and realize the breadth of product infiltration. Think about the convenience store nearest you. How many Coca-Cola products are there? How many convenience stores are in your locality? State? The US? The world? How about grocery stores and the like? Now move on to fast food chains. Chain restaurants, privately owned restaurants. Ballfields from Pop Warner and little league on up through to the major leagues in the US. Now thing world wide sports, soccer, cricket, etc. Vending machines. Airports. It never ends. Is it beginning to sink in on the amount of colored sugar syrup these guys sell? They manage to keep us convinced that we need to suck this stuff down with at least on meal a day. Their salary is a pittance in comparison.
PS Do this with jewelry stores and explain to me why diamonds are so valuable. They aren’t.
The free market sets their salaries. If they made a deal with the devil and took stimulus funds, (probably based on an earlier deal with the devil to increase their worth at the expense of the shareholders) we have a right to monitor the financials, including executive pay. If not, then we do not.
If something is going to happen, what we need is shareholder derivative suits. Sue the CEO’s who intentionally hid risky loans for fraud. The victories will be few in the end, but the specter of the expensive suit defense and the victories will keep them thinking (how to cover their tracks, in some cases) about what they do and who their allegiance.
Also – when is the last time someone complained so much about how much Brad and Angelina make? What profit Rhianna made off of “Umbrella”? Simon Cowell’s multi-millions? How long has it been since the “Friends” crew demanded $1 million/episode each? Why are they not demonized by the media and politicians for making so much unneeded money? Why not have caps on their salaries? Hmmmm.
No we should not this is Usa not Russia we a republic if people forget….of course schools say we not….if look in bill of rights n the const. government not supose run auto companys n banks that not what foundin fathers stated in the bills.We free to have rights to spend what have to make money for Me and U n if people stop listen to the papers are Ajc Oh the evil rich did it u wrong
Why focus on business exec pay? how come hollywood gets a free pass from criticism or professional sports players or musicians??? If you use the entertaintment word as a defense its no different from you choosing to see their movie or concert vs choosing to use a company’s particular product (whose CEO gets paid whatever). With Obama in office, seems that class warfare is creeping in as is the attack on anything capatilism (yet, Hollywood gets a free pass…hmmm. oh yea, they’re all liberals..my bad).
Not one of these executives listed are worth the compensation they’re receiving. At the end of the day it is the front line worker and shareholder who keeps the company moving. Why should any Delta executive receive compensation? If they threaten to go somewhere else if they’re not compensated then I say: SHOW THEM THE DOOR. I could care less about their work days or stress. These companies laid off employees why should these scumbag execs be rewarded for failing!?
I have no problem with corporate executives being compensated up to 5 million or so base yearly salary, but all bonus and golden parachutes should be based on positive growth of the company including growth in American jobs and income to the stock holders.
What really chaps my buns is when a CEO leaves a company (either forced out or otherwise) with a 100 million dollar golden parachute and the stock is worth less than half of what was worth when he/she took the job of CEO. That what the government needs to get control of.
Yes, they are overpaid. Just as are Sports stars and celebrities. If you want to cut executive pay, then cut sports salaries and actors/singers/celebrities pay.
Wow, Obama has done a great job bringing about the wealth envy crowd and vilifying corporate executives. For the person who switched to Pepsi over Coke, what do you think Pepsi pays their executives? About the same as Coke does. If you say you don’t care about what they’ve done to get there, then you aren’t a very rational person. It’s pathetic how much people are jealous of other successful people but never seem to blame themselves for anything.
It is NOT the government’s job to set pay/compensation rates. Having said that, anybody that takes taxpayer money SHOULD answer to the taxpayers. Compensation should be based on results, and NOT poor ones!
First we need to reform shareholder voting. Shareholders ballots are a farce because huge blocks of stock are held by giant mutual fund managers like Fidelity, and Franklin Funds. These fund managers seek to get pension management and other business from companies, so of course they vote their shares in favor of whatever management wants. This means they vote in favor of whorey directors who vote for any pay raise the greedy executives want. Any mutual fund seeking business from management should be disqualified for shareholder voting. Then the SEC should require that all companies ask shareholders to at least hold an advisory vote on executive compensation.
the problem with these boards is that they are usually insiders. for gods sake, king and spalding had a powerful board seat and they were coke’s own law firm. wonder how many millions were lost in frivilous litigation and useless transactional work because of that.
What rankles people the most is that CEO pay is not linked to performance: heads I win, tails you lose thats the way it works. Bob Nardelli nearly destroyed Home Depot but he walked away with more than 200 million and went to work destroying Chrysler. The same pattern is being repeated over and over again. The game is rigged and the people have figured out that rank and file workers and shareholders are the only ones not in on the trick. I hope the government steps in becaise the vaunted “free market” has failed over and over again to check and correct itself. Unbridled capitalism has failed in almost every area and brought the world to the brink of economic collapse.Long live Karl Marxx!
I think some people are really missing the point. Atheletes and celebrities are not making millions while rank and file employees are being laid off, losing their job, spouses, minds.
When American employees suffer due to poor company performance it is extremely unreasonable to be paying executives $500 K+ per month and at the same time be laying off employees making 2, 3 or $4,000 per month.
I really don’t understand how these “executives” can live with themselves racking up millions while “their” employees lose everything. THAT IS NOT AMERICAN.
Many executives have opted to be paid one dollar per year until their companies return to profitability. There was a time when people didn’t expect to be paid unless they earned it. That is American.
Kiplinger left out the more interesting symptoms of recession mania:
* Fewer mimes are trying to escape their boxes. They seem to be content to stay exactly where they are in these hard times.
* Local dog pounds finding fewer lost pets. More dogs are taking refuge under hillbilly porches. Reports from rural alabama say that the criteria defining a redneck has been raised from seven dogs under a porch to 13.
* In addition to installing more “ten items or less” lanes, grocery stores now have shoplifter-only lanes. Instead of “paper or plastic”, the bagboys now ask, “Probation or Community service, sir?”.
* Plumbers are experiencing a golden age as more people try to save money by not flushing. This coming at a time when Charmin has introduced a mega-roll (4 rolls in one), and kelloggs has added another scoop to make a total of three scoops of raisins to their cereal.
* Fewer hunters have economists saying that the only thing americans have to fear are deers themselves.
The exact same symptoms appeared during the great depression so hang on america.
Relatively speaking regulations imposed by market forces are consistent, objective and have a discernable motivation, the success of a business. Government regulations are subject to a myriad of motivations that are constantly changing and therefore impossible to predict making such institutions less worthy of investors money. The less interference the better, and any that exists needs to be devoid of political motivation
I honestly believe that no “new” regulations are needed. Rather, we just need to “undo” the deregulation of the last 20 years. Specifically, we should repeal Grahm, Leach, Bliley which would reinstated Glass-Steagel. On top of that, we should repeal the legislation that deregulated teh derivatives markets in the early 1990s.
Given that the government caused the housing bubble – (a) easy money at the Fed, (b) subsidized FNMA and FHLMC corrupting the market, (c) Congress raising FNMA and FHLMC loan limits to $700,000, and of course (d) the Carter era Community Reinvestment Act (which makes regulator-controlled privileges contingent on the quality of service to low- and moderate-income communitites) – I cannot envision a worse “cure” for the economy than more government intervention. I assume the cure will be just as well-conceived as the cause of the current problems.
What efforts the President is making on various issues we are facing appear to be ongoing disapprovals by those who don’t like it. We all are and have face some deep trouble times; and while we sit back and watch big companies get monies; many of thousands have lost their jobs and home, even the so called rich has to move into the soup lines. So we are all looking for a better day but I don’t think we will be getting any help from anyone on our personal troubles we all are havng. We are not going to be help out. We are on our own as tax payers and as things continue, many of us will dig deeper into our savings and our children might not reach college. Jobs are not surfacing as they once did. We are not moving in the right direction because we continue to be pull back from where we started. some body don’t want the President to acheive goals that he set; and we as the United States Citizens should want to live right and give the President a change because no body every questioned the former President when he made decisions and they did not treat him as they are treating President Obama. President Obama is the President and is due every respect. The more we all move toward making America right, no one can disagree with what we as citizens are doing. The more and the longer we continue to down our President, then, do we think that things will get better. I don’t think so! You all who are negative on the President, I asked that you all treat me fairly and be respectful to and about him. Let’s not let this economy make us less than Americans. You all be blessed!
way too much control… their existing levers of power were rendered useless in this fiasco, as well as Katrina, as well as the TRILLION dollars missing from the pentagon which was announced 1 day before 911 then swept under the rug oh so easily thereafter. Let the big companies fail, and the investors will buy them up at a true market price thereafter, but DONT let the govt buy them, then put US on the hook for billions of bailout dollars (IOU’s) just before systematically dismantling the company piece by piece…selling it to China and other countries… wake up people– this is crony capitalism and the FED is a bogus, PRIVATE entity only in existence since 1913…Noticeably enough, that is right before our BIGGEST depression in history, followed by systematic booms and bust cycles and we buy the bust cycle as a legit excuse to give them more power… Are we stupid or what..? This is the hegelian dialectic in action decade after decade…
Adding more regulation to the financial markets is like putting salt and pepper on roadkill. For the past two years, the government, the press, and the financial community have blamed the meltdown in the financial markets on consumers, particularly those who defaulted on sub-prime mortgage payments. In addition, data shows that the decline in our nation’s income has been due to declines in personal consumption and business investment in plant and equipment. Today’s financial regulatory restructuring plan, announced this afternoon by Mr. Obama, has no connection to economic growth. Creating a new consumer protection agency has nothing to do with boosting GDP or lowering the unemployment rate.
If anyone has had any luck with any of these companies, could you please post it for the ones that cannot find one to work with you. We’ve almost lost once and just got a second chance that want last long so I need to get something done now, so if anyone knows the right number to call, i am sure a lot of people that hasn’t found them would appreciate it but check out http://obamamortgage2009.blogspot.com or obamamortgage2009.blogspot.com
I understand that state government had to cut jobs somewhere, but you would think they would cut them somewhere else other than the revenue department at what is their busiest time of year. This was just poor judgment and poor planning on the part of Governor Perdue and the others that lead up government in Georgia.
This is one more example of why government is NOT a business. The myth that government should be run like a business does not consider the fact that governments HAVE to do things that no business would find attractive or profitable. If the world were fair (not that I think it is) then the State Department of Revenue should pay a “Late Refund Penalty” to each taxpayer that does not receive their refund in a timely manner.
Okay Sonny, here’s the deal. Since you don’t have the “staff” to process refunds, it is reasonable to expect that you don’t have the “staff” to accept payments. So we’ll just hold on to our estimate payments until you complete “Job One.” If that presents yopu with a problem, then “Go Fish.”
It’s simple:
The longer Georgia holds onto our refund money, the more interest it makes on it.
To borrow from J.G. Wentworth: “It’s OUR money and we want it NOW!”
I hope the Dept of Revenue plans on paying interest to the people with late refunds at the same interest rate that they charge us when we are late paying our taxes.
It sounds like another class action lawsuit is in the making. Perhaps the Atlanta Water Dept. can give the Dept. of Revenue the names of some good defense attorneys.
I was required to pay a penalty & interest for claiming vendor’s comp
on sales tax return that was one day late…..total over $600.00.
I filed my income tax return on April 13th & have been told it will be
mid-August before I should expect it. Looks like the State of GA thinks that’s ok…..as always the taxpayer is SOL.
Sounds like there was a backroom meeting where the following was stated: “We don’t have the revenue coming in, so we’ll just keep the refund money for a while, bonus is the extra interest, and we’ll plan our layoffs in the Tax Division to give us a good excuse”.
This is unbelievable!!! I go to their web site everyday and they still have nothing in the system with my information. It got sent begining of April!! Maybe we will get in time to go school shopping.
Yes, the state of Georgia has yet to refund me what is due in the form of my state income tax refund. I guess as a private, tax paying citizen I am not able to sue the state of Georgia for any late fees and penalties like they’d be able to sue me for if the situation was reversed. The AJC has a fromt page story on record breaking unemployment numbers in GA. Why not hire these folks to help the IRS? This is a great example of why we need less government and not more of it. The only thing the government is good at running is itself, into the ground.
We need a tax revolt. Why can’t we force a referendum to be put on the ballot and let the tax payers decide on a rollback and also a cap on taxes. The buffoons in government will never do what is right, they are only concerned with preserving their jobs and the power that comes with it.
So, you guys would have rather the state raised taxes to pay for staffers at the Dept of Revenue? I filed mine electronically in February and got it back in about 2 weeks. If you waited til April, and filed by paper, then evidently you didnt need it so bad and you can just wait. I dont want my taxes raised because you refuse to file electronically.
Maybe if some of those deadbeat legislators who are delinquent in paying their taxes paid them, some of the hard working citizens could get their refunds.
Good luck to him. Where are they playing? Bring it to the northern burbs. Rent out high schools and watch the fans come out. Trekking downtown is what killed The Beat the first time.
Well, we’ve known for at least a year that he had an expansion team. It was reported that he is looking to build an 8500-seat soccer stadium in the next year, Irish. We’re not getting MLS anytime soon — if you want professional soccer in Atlanta, the Beat — along with Mexico v Venezuela next week and AC Milan v America next month — need to be supported.
No, the beat did very well when they were at Georgia Tech, it wasn’t the downtown thing. The whole league dried up around the same time, and by that time the Beat had moved to Morehouse’s stadium, and nobody knows where that is (West of Downtown).
The headline/link for this story on the home page reads “Biz Beat: Banks horde TARP funds”
horde /hɔrd, hoʊrd/ Pronunciation [hawrd, hohrd]
noun, verb, hord⋅ed, hord⋅ing.
–noun 1. a large group, multitude, number, etc.; a mass or crowd: a horde of tourists.
2. a tribe or troop of Asian nomads.
3. any nomadic group.
4. a moving pack or swarm of animals: A horde of mosquitoes invaded the camp.
–verb (used without object) 5. to gather in a horde: The prisoners horded together in the compound.
I think you wanted to use hoard.
hoard /hɔrd, hoʊrd/ Pronunciation [hawrd, hohrd]
–noun 1. a supply or accumulation that is hidden or carefully guarded for preservation, future use, etc.: a vast hoard of silver.
–verb (used with object) 2. to accumulate for preservation, future use, etc., in a hidden or carefully guarded place: to hoard food during a shortage.
–verb (used without object) 3. to accumulate money, food, or the like, in a hidden or carefully guarded place for preservation, future use, etc.
well, i guess your right w/the spelling stuff BUT they (the banks) can be compared to a swarm of animals come to think of it. mosquitoes at that! they should have been exterminated and those that fell should have fallen instead of being given money. boy am i sick of this administration… im sick of seeing my friends loose their jobs they’ve had or 20+ years. and folks losing their houses… there needs to be another ‘change’ all right. the folks running the country now are running it into the ground and are destroying America. Obama is a freaking liar. im glad all that voted for him are having to experience it also… thanks for nothing you guys, whiy dont you stay home nxt time sicne your votes were apparently not thought thru.. i mean wtf? where is all that money at any way? transparency my back side. it sure is not creating jobs and keeping business still operating. wake up people
TSO, uhhh, although you’re use of the word “horde” matginally applies to the banks, your assessment of President Obama is way off base. As I recall, and I’m sure those of you who would like to remain in denial recall, it was the response of the sitting President, G. Bush (43), and that incredibly genius, Sec. Treasuty Paulson who pushed the TARP through WITH NO OVERSIGHT. I looked at the application because I was astounded that it was only 2 pages in length. What IS transparent, is that the previous administrations efforts were designed to benefit the banks, not bring them back in line and cause the flow of credit again. The current President has mobilized his administration to focus on many “messes” created by W., and within a realtively short period of time, has started the process of a turnaround. He clearly stated that it would get considerably worse before its gets better and that is proving to be the case. You will continue to have your opinions and aarguments over how this is progressing, but that is our right afforded by our constitution. Jumping on President Obama for an inherited problem and his not having been in office 6 months yet is ridiculous. W. was there for 8 years and this kind of rhetoric was never stated by the right. The power has shifted back to the people and although we’re all taking it on the chin right now, we’re certain that our country will be revived and return to its prominence for all of us. You can wake up from your delusions, and join the rest of the country…
of course its bush’s fault. boo hoo for obama cause he has inherited this big problem… whine, whine whine.. all that crap is ‘obamaology’.. meaning you just keep drinking that kool-aid while walking to the edge of a cliff… it wll all be over in 4 years.
the white house, o-bamA and the media use Bush a scapegoat… its all crap…quit blaming bush for o-bam-a’s failures… he’s in over his head and a pathetic leader….. oh and bush isn’t in office anymore, get over it.. cant wait to see how he deals w/ the gargoyle from north Korea… and the saddest from iran… he’s just going to close his eyes, go to some stupid dinner party that cost YOU thousands of dollars in tax money and pretend it will go away.
what we should do is go Hiroshima on all of them and shut’em up… jezzz, he needs to grow a pair…. i mean im a girl and mine are bigger than his… oh and kool aid is ready
@ TRUTH – The power has shifted back to the people? By people do you mean the government trying to control every aspect of our lives? Think about everything Obama has done or is trying to do:
- Named tax cheat after tax cheat to important political positions
- His idea of “change” was to keep the Clinton Administration
- Fired the GM CEO
- Set pay limits on banks receiving TARP funds
- Trying to set pay limits on executives
- Trying to have socialized healthcare
- Forced Chrysler into bankruptcy
- Being an apologist when he visits foreign nations
- Trying to give terrorists equal rights
- Limiting the line of questioning from the media
- Not providing enough transparency on his “stimulus” plan
- Not providing transparency on the White House visitor log
- Spending too much time on being a celebrity and not enough time on being a President
As far as the problem the country faces now, these were not solely from the last eight years. The issues at hand have piled up for decades and are now showing their face.
If I recall President Bush tried to push for greater oversight of Fannie/Freddie but faced severe opposition from Barney Frank, the same Barney Frank who is now the Chairman of the House Financial Services Committee!
EVERYONE is to blame for the current mess we are in. There are very few innocent parties, despite the fact that the President has completely forgotten to bring up personal responsibility during his daily blame storming sessions.
George Bush was in office for 8 yrs. He did nothing his last 4 years in office. Gave away the first TARP money with no strings attached. How stupid was he for that. He let his administration manipulate him like puppet. Everyone from national security to finance told him a bunch of crap and he went with it. How do you give away the first Tarp with no restrictions. That money is still UNaccounted for. Maintaining status quo is not getting the job done. Where we you commenting on all the job losses before JANUARY. Did you think it was going to stop all of sudden after BUSH left office. When BUSH was in office, how many millions of JOBS were lost doing his last year in office. But you expect jobs to all of a sudden start hiring again in 4 months of the Obama administration. These business plan were in effect long time ago to cut jobs. They didn’t get this idea two or three months ago. L
Obama’s Proposed Sweeping Financial Regulation: What Can We Learn from SOX (Sarbanes Oxley)
Sarbanes Oxley is very expensive: including enormous direct ($80 Billion per year) and indirect costs to our economy and to innovation. It has not met its goals of improving the quality of auditing or preventing fraud. Nor have any of the benefits of these costs materialized. Public companies have not experienced lower capital costs, investors have not been protected from fraud and there has not been faster economic growth due to more efficient allocation of resources. The effects of this law include fewer public companies, fewer companies going public, more companies choosing to go public in foreign markets, absurdly high auditing expenses and a significant decrease in risk capital.
Interestingly, a number of econometric studies of the effectiveness of the SEC and securities laws before and after Sarbanes Oxley have shown no net effect on investor returns. According to Liu et al. “we find that the conditional mean and variance of monthly total real stock returns were no different during 1940-2007 than during 1871-1925. Consequently, recent claims by high ranking government officials that stock market “stabilization” requires increased federal regulation implies greater faith in this method of protecting investors than is supported by the evidence.” What these studies do not account for is the lost opportunity costs due to all the securities laws. At least in the case of Sarbanes Oxley, the opportunity costs most likely far outweigh the direct costs.
This guys is right. The “green shoots” crowd watch too much CNBC and listen to too many politicians who get an uptick if you buy their upbeat rhetoric.
The bad news far out-weighs the good news right now. Seeing it any other way just doesn’t stand up to the facts.
Of course this guy from GE can’t see any improvement …He is one of the battalions of useless beauracracy at a company that has been run into the ground by its finance division. GE is so big that it will take a lot of recovery to move the needle and start looking healthy again.And you know what ? This guy will be one of the last one to know. With so many direct reports and butt kissing corporate climbers wanting to move into his office, it would be amazing if anyone ever told him the truth ,the real truth , about anything. He has an opinion. Surprisingly , that opinion is shared by all his underlings that tell him what he wants to hear.But if he would actually meet and listen to real customers (and front line employees) he would know that something is stirring out here away from the office that he has imprisoned himself in.
No ,2006 won’t return anytime soon. But that was all an illusion anyway. GE had better rid themselves of this “easy money through finance” mindset and concentrate on their real business that make real products and real profits.John Rice (and others like him) want to make money without the hard work and effort that it requires through what amounts to respectable usury.The economy is coming back ,no matter what this guy says , because people are re-learning the lessons of thrift and saving.It will be slow ,but it is happening with mthematical certainty.
The economy is not improving and is only going to get worse people! Have any of you looked at housing numbers? Forclosures are taking a rest at the moment because the Obama “Socialist” party is telling Fannie and Freddie not to release hundreds of thousands of homes already taken back from banks to the market place. We have well over a million homes my friends that are sooner or later going to be released and put on the market which will further depress home prices across the board.
The housing atomic bomb got us into this nightmare and housing will bring us out folks. We are at least 2 years away from any semblence of stability. Another round of foreclosures both in Commerical and Residental is fast approaching.
All you fools who feel the economy is improving either don’t have a brain or are to busy watching reality TV and reading people magazine.
America once the “Land of the Free” know the home of the “whats the Gov’t giving me today”
Shouldn’t that be Thanks Bush? Wasn’t he the decider for an entire 8 year period before the economy tanked. Obama inherited the problems he made. You should thank Obama for stabilizing the situation.
It should be thanks Mr. Government official. All are to blame for our losses. We should implement term limits so that these pariahs are not allowed to flourish in Washington. We need less entitlement and more autonomy!!
People like to blame which ever opposing leader is in office when things go to crap. However, Bush and Obama have had little to do with the economy (although the stimulus was a bad idea). If you want to point fingers, you should probably start with yourself. People were content with their 401k rising every year and it never occurred to them that the market needed to correct itself. If you look at historic trends it was easy to see we were on a bubble. Most did not believe that housing would be the bubble to pop, but it did. Now everyone wants to blame CEOs when if they had questioned practices all along and practiced hedging/risk management we would not be in as bad of a mess. If you want to point at a group it should be at the representatives on the financial committee. Economies are cyclical so there is no need for everyone to panic causing more chaos.
Oxendine won’t get this corrected and the Fair Tax is never going to happen. We live in an anti-government, Republican state and they can’t get us our money. What a surprise, a bunch of hypocrites.
Think its high time the fare was increased. I’d take it a step further, and implement a pay for a far as you ride also, but that would get the bedwetters n homeless outraged. At least my bus route didn’t get cut, oh yeah, I live on the south side of town, NO wonder!!!
Be ye not duped by the ponzi scam that is (smoke & mirrors) Wall $reet folks! Investments pegged to fiat currency (controlled by the Central Banking Cartel) will continue to falter (along side intentionally weakened currency like the U.S. dollar). Invest in tangible assets with intrinsic value like gold, precious metal coins. Be prepared when the dollar (& stock market) totally bottoms out!
There needs to be an economics course that ALL high school kids should be required to take so they don’t turn out as ignorent as all of you. (Exept for C)
To “The Truth” you’re just getting YOUR money back, which you stupidly lent to the government tax free over the year 2008. Do a better job in your tax planning. The goal is to get as close to 0.00 back without owing any money. Geez!
As usual, the folks who can LEAST AFFORD the rate hike will be the people who will be most adversely affected and will pay the cost. Despite the rate hike, the buses and trains will STILL be late all the time and overly crowded most of the time, the buses, trains and stations will STILL be smelly and dirty, the stations will STILL be unsafe, and the drivers will STILL be rude and surly. Thanks for nothing, MARTA.
The fare increase is not worth it. Considering the average driver in the ATL drives 50 miles per day @ $2.50/ GAL = $5/per day (25 miles/ gal). The $1 savings per day is not worth giving up the convenience of traveling in your own vehicle. Marta is already inefficient and does not meet the needs of the city . This $.25 in greed will ruin the system.
“a quarter of U.S. employers have eliminated matching contributions to employee 401(k) retirement plans since SEPTEMBER to save money amid the economy’s downturn”
The blame Obama crowd only read headlines and chime in. I believe Mr. Obama took office in JAN.
Don’t be a hater Amy! You must be jealous! I have $4,000 coming my way and you probably had to pay out some money for your taxes. Refunds are a good thing! Everyone wants a refund when they file…nobody wants to pay on April 15th!
I purchase a discounted monthly card through my employer. As long as the cost is less than the our monthly parking plus additional gas expense, I’ll keep riding Marta. It’s convenient and I haven’t had any problems. Definitely less stress than the traffic around here.
25 cents is nothing…even the person working a minimum wage job can afford 50 cents more per day. By the way, it is easy to tell which bloggers (Peri) do not ride the system much. During the workweek the trains are almost always right on schedule and so are the buses. I know because I ride both everyday and choose to leave my car parked.
This is the point where I stop taking MARTA to work and start driving. It’s actually less expensive for me to drive, but wanted to help alleviate traffic and air quality issues by taking the train. Unfortunately, I can no longer afford to do that with a fare increase and will resume driving to work.
@Truth…you are truly an idiot. THe goal should be zero. Why would you want to give the government a $4,000 interest free loan. I would rather pay a small amount. I know how to save money so I need to loan the government my hard earned dollars during the year.
Methinks, this is why our country is in trouble. Most folks don’t have a grasp of basic finance.
WHO gets 25 miles/gal during city driving? I would pay more to park in our employee lots than I pay for a monthlly Marta Card. Add on the add’l $7 – 10/day in gas, Marta is a no-brainer for me and most of my co-workers. BTW – I don’t expect the trains to look or smell like the Ritz Carlton. I live in the REAL world – not a fantasy land.
I don’t ride MARTA except to the airport for flights once or twice a year, because it is simply not feasible based on the location of my job (I do carpool, though). I think $2 is a pittance to pay to ride pretty much anywhere it goes, and, despite what one poster thinks, the fare increase is not “greed.” It’s a necessary part of doing business. It was either raise the fare, or cut services and/or jobs.
And the benefits of riding are relative, so $2 may very well still beat the costs of owning a car (it’s not just gas prices).
Now, is MARTA inefficient? For some, yes. Does MARTA need lessons on how to manage money better? Yes. It’s a shame that a city of this size doesn’t have a better mass transit system. But in the grand scheme of things, $2 a ride is CHEAP.
I live in Dekalb and I use Marta everyday. When I pull into Marta, all you see is on the tags are Newton, Clayton, Gwinnett and etc. Dekalb and Fulton are the only ones paying for the use of the system, so why can’t fares go up for the people living outside of the counties. They are getting a break for nothing.
Marta Evangelist: LOL. I actually happen to take MARTA every single day to my job at Emory. So don’t pretend you know something about me, based on a few sentences posted on an internet blog, okay? Good.
I still say that the rate increase is not worth it. It may NOT cause a huge affect MY finances, per se, but there are plenty of low-income and disabled people who ride MARTA who cannot afford another rate increase by MARTA for the cut rate services they offer.
2.00 is a bargain to travel anywhere in Metro Atlanta that is served by MARTA. Too bad MARTA is the only rail system serving a metropolitan area that is not funded by the state. Take Metro Atlanta out of Georgia and you don’t have an economic engine to drive the entire state economy.
@jct…So, you are telling me that if you found out you had a refund coming on April 15th you would not be happy becuase you overpaid the gov’t? You were happier staying flat or close to zero? Don’t tell me that you were hoping for a surprise refund, even a small one. OK, so I I overpaid the government and stumbled across an extra $4,000. It is a heck of a lot better than having to pay a bunch of money on April 15th. I see it as a forced savings plan.
No, we just need to scrap this horrible system and start over.
Marta tries to compare it’s $2 price to New York but in New York you can get anywhere you want to go.
Just try to get to Buckhead at Peachtree & Piedmont on Marta, or a Braves game from Alpharetta. MARTA is a horrible system.
Why do we need buses running until 1am? How many people are on each bus at 1am?
Roxy – I challenge you to post what kind of car you drive, the general area of your home, and the general area of your office. Once you can do that, we can all evaluate together if this extra 50 cents round-trip will make public transportation more expensive than driving. It will be fun!
I understand Atlanta’s transit system does not work for everyone…that is why we need to invest in smart expansion. Its all about choices though…I choose to live in-town and I can take Marta or walk just about everywhere I need to go. I drove less than 3000 miles last year…including a driving trip to Tampa. If you choose to live in Gainesville, you probably got to drive 30,000 miles last year…that is your choice.
If we could get money from Cobb and Gwinnett for the free hook-up to the system, this probably wouldn’t be necessary. MARTA’s real problem is those who don’t pay a dime for upkeep (the state and non-paying Metro counties).
I ride MARTA 3-5 days a week,too. While I don’t expect it to “smell like the Ritz Carlton,” it could definately be cleaner. I have ridden the metro in several European cities and none are as unkempt as MARTA. So what does 25 cents more get the average rider? More dirty and late buses and trains. I agree with the poster who said that MARTA could do better.
To save money and wear and tear on my vehicle, I will continue to ride MARTA, though, and just suck it up.
The Truth: Sorry, that’s not logical thinking you have going on up there. You loaned your money out for free all year and you’re just happy as a clam to get it back interest free?… DON’T GO INTO BANKING!
Peri – I guess the drivers down at Emory are different from the ones I usually see on the northside…I usually get a smile or at least a nod. I’d be curious as to why you think the stations are unsafe…I use the system at all hours of the day and haven’t had a problem worse than loud music or someone asking for change.
Rob – I guess you are being serious?? Peachtree and Piedmont is one third of a mile from the Buckhead station. If that is too far two bus routes come (every 12 minutes during peak times) and would get you there in less than a minute.
Plenty of people ride MARTA at 1 am, Rob — or WOULD if MARTA ran all night like public transportation in MOST international cities. Believe it or not, not ALL people work 9-5. Maybe in YOUR little world they do, but in the REAL world,there are many people who work at Atlanta’s sports venues, hotels, etc. who work until 1, 2, 3 am, etc. and need to get home when their shifts end.
The stations ARE unsafe! People have been robbed and murdered at MARTA stations. Are you kidding me? Do you know how many cars are burglarized at MARTA stations? I know someone, personally, whose car has been broken into TWICE at Kensington. Marta Evangelist, you must live in LaLa Land!
Wouldn’t you rather have a refund instead of having to pony up some unexpected cash every year? Why do you have to be so jealous? I’m debt free with savings in the bank. Don’t tell me I don’t know how to handle money. Wow…another hater.
Marta Evangelist,you must own stock in MARTA. “MARTA is great! MARTA is beautiful! MARTA is affordable! MARTA drivers (on the Northside, at least!) are just peachy-keen!” Arrrghhh (that’s the sound of me throwing up).
Hey Ya Big Dummy: Clark Howard would say it is much better to recieve the $4,000 and have it in the bank than have to come out of pocket and possible having a hard time payint the $4,000. I can see why this country is in such financial turmoil with all these people in credit card debt and having to pay the gov’t on top of that. Whew…I’m glad I can pay my bills and get some fun surprise money coming my way.
Ha! Yeah, I’m over-the-top about Marta…I admit it. Why not, it saves me tons of money and time, it allows me to read while someone else safely gets me where I need to go, and if I have too much to drink at night I don’t have to worry about driving drunk. I have no ulterior motives, other than trying to get people to realize that there are some of us that are well-off, educated, car-owning, and yes…white, and we use Marta because it makes our life better.
And Puhleeze! – if you show me a credible web site that shows where someone has been murdered on MARTA I will gladly meet you at 5 points tonight with a $5 bill for you.
Truth, I think what you don’t understand is that a large refund is not good. But the reality is that your income is low and you qualify for low income tax credits.
Bynum, 44, was just two weeks from getting married when he made a trip to California, leaving his car at a friend’s house near the Lenox MARTA station.
Gordon Bynum, Jr. (44), a marketing executive, returned from the West Coast late on the evening of June 9, 1999, and took MARTA from the airport to the Lenox station and was shot and murdered. The murderer was never convicted because trial ended in a mistrial.
You can give my $5 to any homeless person that you see on MARTA tonight.
Keep it real: I make plenty of money to satisfy my needs and wants. I have no credit card debt and money in the bank. Notwithstanding my income, I am sure I am in a better financial situation than most on this board.
Unreal how narrow the focus of so many people – If you look at history, the 401K program was born out of a tax loophole for a minority of taxpayers – as corporations discovered the benefit of providing LESS benefits to it’s employees than a traditional pension plan; the 401K plan became the defacto standard for “self driven” retirement plans. Now that corporations are making less profit, they are now eliminating their contribution to the employee plans…making it truly a “self driven plan”. If anyone is to get angry about this – get angery at the level of corporate greed that exists in this country. Every coporate benefit has been either cut or retired completely. And we continue to compensate corporate leaders at a rate of 40tiems that of other countries!
Oh! And don’t forget the grandmother who was KIDNAPPED from the Lindbergh station and RAPED in June 2002! Yeah, right. MARTA is safe.
Give another $5 bucks to another homeless rider for me.
The Marta Police Crime Stats for 2005 show 65 robberies, 46 aggravated assaults and 1 rape. The highest number of crimes are related to larceny(332) and auto theft(119).
The MARTA police and MARTA employees are rarely seen on the trains or in the stations along the north-south routes. Instead MARTA places helpful posters on all trains encouraging passengers to “move away from the source of trouble” and call MARTA police, who are practically invisible in the trains or stations.
Still feel safe on MARTA? If so, then, good for you!
I thank God that Marta is still running and have not shut down completely. Rather than complain, i choose to be thankful, at least i can get from point A to B, because i do not have a car.
I second that, msu, I just feel that MARTA’s rate hike is uncessary and penalizes the every-day-low-income-rider-who-doesn’t-have-a-car, not your traveling-to-airport-riders.
The state of georgia and the Governor are the ones to be blamed for Martas wo’s. Marta is the only major public transportation system that is not partially funded with state funds. I totally agree that there is a lot of improvements that need to addressed especially with the perpetially late busses. I will still ride Marta to and from work as it is still convient for me. $.25 is a tollerable increase for me.
I ride MARTA daily, and have been doing so since 1996. I live just over 6 miles from my office. My commute on MARTA is an hour and a half on a good day – it has been as long as 2 hours and 20 minutes. 45 minutes of the 90 minute commute are spent waiting on buses that don’t show up. (It’s not unusual to spend 30-45 minutes waiting on a bus that’s supposed to run every 15 minutes.) Remember – this is on a GOOD day. I have waited over an hour on these buses more times than I care to recall.
This same trip in a car takes 20 minutes in normal traffic.
So no, it’s not worth it. The problem isn’t just having to pay .25 more per ride. The problem is having to waste a minimum of 350 minutes of my life every week on the sick joke that is Atlanta’s public transit system.
Evangelist, I live and work in-town. The parking lots are heavily subsidized, but are a six-block walk from my office. It will be decidedly less expensive to drive, and I won’t have to sit next to anyone drenched in urine, listen to a parent scream obscenities at their toddler, or sit next to a Unabomber lookalike. I’ve taken MARTA for 3 years – mostly reliable – but I’m done.
The MARTA system is terrible compared to mass transit in other cities. The worst part is, it is already a more expensive option than other cities, and less efficient. The system needs a complete overhaul if it wants to seriously have a positive effect on Atlanta traffic.
Congrats to MARTA! Finally they got some sense. Fares have not been raised in forever and have not been adjusted for inflation even when gas was $4. So good for them. And for all the “poor people” who you all say can’t afford the fare increase you tell me how they buy all these fanciful shoes and fast food junk all day. They surely can and will be able to afford to not eat a Big Mac for a week so they can get to work. Not even in a Prius can you go from the Airport to Mansell Road for $1.75 so suck it up and be thankful for the (little) transit we do have in this terribly run state and city.
Well could it be the poor people that live maybe in South Atlanta yet work at North Point Mall? I was referring to the “poor” referenced earlier in this comment section.
If you check any major city of the size of Atlanta you will see that their public transit systems cost the same if not more than the proposed increase. Just keeping up with the times.
I ride MARTA whenever the alternative means paying for parking, and I don’t mind having to pay a quarter extra. But until they find a way to change their funding scheme so they can undertake new expansion projects to serve currently underserved areas, their money problems are going to continue. Of course they need to find a way to expand to Gwinnett, Cobb, and Clayton, but there are a lot of people even within Fulton and DeKalb who are not within walking or short driving distance of a MARTA station, and taking MARTA means a longer travel time for most of them.
To Puhleeze!, The greater majority of MARTA police officers on the trains are plain-clothes officers. If you’d like to see one simply enter a station without paying.
To Roxy, nice comment. I hope you quoted John Rocker’s Sports Illustrated acticle as the source of your remarks. Otherwise it’s plagarism!
Long lines, Clear Card discontinued… I dont feel sorry for any of you that have tolerated being subjected to intrusive illegal (unconstitutional) search of your person or property or detention (arrest) by burger flipper rejects!!!!!!!!!!!!
As long as you tolerate this then you get exactly what you deserve… TSA ISNT about security it’s about showmanship…they search, but not for terrorist, since they arent using profiles….WHen we (USA) search like the Isreali’s then I’ll start flying again!
I will miss Clear in a big, big way. The service was awesome and very worthwhile when you go through Hartsfield twice a week. Now it’s back in line with the hoi polloi. Sigh.
Gordon Bynum may not have been killed at a MARTA station, but he was leaving one — and that still doesn’t diminish the other, verifiable crime stats of incidents that HAVE taken place at MARTA stations.
I was a member in 2008 but did not renew in 2009. I did not see any significant difference between the Delta elite lanes. Clear was a complete waste of money. Does anyone besides Delta fly through Atlanta?
Ugh..no clear lines so back to the extra long lines again. Clear made my airport weekly trips much more tolerable over the last year.
I was thinking how glad I am that they are here yesterday morning when I left ATL now I will have to get to the airports excessively early again to make it through the snake like maze of people.
Maybe ATL can do what a lot of other airports are doing. Break the lines up into expert travlers, holiday travelers and family travelers so that all of the lines do not get overburdened by the less experienced.
If most MARTA riders can afford $200 IPods and $300 sneakers, they can afford an extra 25 cents for a ride to work. If not, they can sell their Hawks or Falcons tickets.
I completely agree with Nichole. I get a discounted card through my employer, and it’s much cheaper than driving twelve miles to work and then paying for parking. I also live in the real world, and I don’t expect MARTA to be like the Ritz either.
This is too bad- I am a Delta platinum skymiles member so it didn’t make too much of a difference to me here in ATL as far as Monday morning wait times go, but clear really came through in airports where Delta doesn’t have a large presence (like Denver). Hopefully someone will eventually fill the void, b/c I think it’s a great idea.
I think there are a lot of folks that need to wake up and support Marta. The fare increase was long over due. Numbers show that it should actually be more than $2 bucks just because of inflation. That is still cheap. I’m glad to see people like Marta Evangelist that still support transit. Puhleeze!, I don’t know why you down the system so much and don’t even have your facts right when you do. Thanks Atl Girl for clarifying that the gentleman was not killed at a Marta station. Unfortunately he was killed walking home but he could have been walking from anywhere, a bar, a lounge, someones house. But because it was a Marta station it was a way to keep fear out there about the system. There are definitely improvements that need to be made and I feel that even the most stearn advocates for transit in ATL will tell you that. But what can you expect for a system that serves 5.6 million people but only about 2 million actually pay into the system and there is no support from the state? The same state that won’t even let Marta control it’s own money. Could Marta train cover more area… they sure could but how when counties like Cobb and Gwinett are so scared that trains are going to bring crime. Like the people here doing crimes don’t have cars or something and can just drive and post up somewhere and wait for their victims. No they’d rather take a train so that the police can be waiting at the next station for them. If you haven’t noticed most Marta station promote dense transit oriented development which is not low income and also business considering moving to the area want to have transit as an option for their employees, especially rail transit. Even in the city itself there are still folks who complain about not having transit but don’t want the train to come through their neighborhoods, scared it is going to bring the criminal element. You can’t expect all of Marta to run every 5 minutes and have 24 hour service if you don’t pay into the system. I would love to see the rail service doubled in size and more buses out there running every 10 minutes and a 24 hour system but 1)no one wants to pay for it and 2) the folks are so scared that they don’t want Marta in their area. They’d rather have their own system that will never run on the same level as Marta and that connects with the rail system. I guess that one extra transfer will deter them from coming out there and robbing. Marta isn’t perfect and even though it is sorely underfunded Marta has made mistakes too but that is just part of the business. Overall Marta is pretty efficient with the resources it has. Just remember no Marta, there is no Atlanta, and no Atlanta, Georgia would just be grass and country folk lost behind the times.
I travel out of Hartsfield every week. There are expert traveler lanes contrary to what AtlantaGuy has posted. At the far end of the south terminal. Never and I mean never has there been a line more than 20 deep at that checkpoint. It is also designated as the expert traveler lane. Yes it is somewhat hidden and a few steps farther away than the main checkpoint but well worth the effort. An associate who travels the same trips I do got ripped by the Clear debacle. I’m glad I didn’t pony up the fee. Lately lines at Hartsfield are easily manageable.
As a weekly traveler flying out of Atlanta since ‘98, I was thrilled when we finally obtained Clear lines in Hartsfield. I had been a platinum member with Delta for years, but the premium line had become so saturated that it really didn’t offer any major advantages in the Monday morning commute. How can it when Hartsfield is the hub for Delta and the line allows all platinum, gold and first class ticket holders?
The Clear line was a welcome alternative and certainly reduced my travel time. It’s greatest beneft tended to be at other airports (got to love traveling through Orlando during tourist season and only having to wait 10 minutes). I’ll definitely miss this service.
I fly on business 2-3 days per week. But, no lines – I keep my own airplane at my home on a private airstrip, walk out the door, hop in and away we go. Learn to fly yourselves folks, get your own airplane and quit whining about what the airlines are doing to you!
I guess the people complaining the most are the ones who ride MARTA on weekends. I use it as my only means of transportation. I must admit it seems like a totally different system on weekends and during off peaks hours. During weekday peak hours the trains and buses do run on time. I gave up my car a few years ago when gas climbed over two bucks a gallon. I have never been late for work. Travel time from Buckhead to Decatur is 40 min. I leave work at 4:30 in Decatur, travel to downtown, transfer northbound, transfer to a bus at Arts Center and occasionally the bus pulls up in front of my apartment at 5. Not bad for 13.00 bucks a week and unlimited rides.
I travel weekly out and in at Harsfield. I’ve always strolled by the Clear lanes and wondered how ripped off the people that paid for that must feel. Really, their timing was bad. Since the economy soured, wait times at ATL are nonexistent. More often than not, I walk through security without waiting at all and even on a busy day, its never more than 5-10 minutes. And now the rip is complete. Sorry to the folks that paid for that. Frankly, if the 10 minute wait in normal security lines is a burden, I think you just need a new alarm clock. On the other hand, I agree that TSA screening is a stunt that accomplishes almost nothing. If I was a terrorist willing to die for my cause, you think I wouldn’t spring for a $75 one way fare so I could get past the checkpoint? Total waste of time and money.
Yeah, clearly not a great business or even a good business plan. That’s why they failed. Nothing about the aviation industry can strike the right balance between cost, convenience, and security.
It was non sense from the start. Why should people be able to get in a fast lane when we are all paying taxes for the same services. Good the end of airport lexus lanes. Now on the the HOV lanes
The clear lanes only caused confusion at the airport and didn’t provide any real advantage when the issue isn’t the lines, it’s the morons that TSA hires to snooze, I mean “screen” passengers and carry on baggage.
It stinks that customers won’t get refunds
It’s bad business to not issue refunds
They were in negotiations with creditors for awhile
However, I don’t know that they could have (or should have) told their customers that they were failing. What would be the message? If they told everyone that they weren’t doing well, potential customers would not buy their product. And while, with the benefit of hindsight, we can now say that would’ve been a good thing for consumers, at the time (during negotiations) Clear, I would have to assume, wasn’t certain that they were shutting down (because they were still in negotiations). So, I don’t think it would’ve made any sense for them to tell customers that they were failing…
But again, I think it stinks that they won’t issue refunds. I would hate that if I was someone who just bought a membership 2 months ago and hadn’t gotten my money’s worth yet. But at the same time, it’s logical – they went out of business because they ran out of money; so it would only follow that they wouldn’t issue refunds, because they don’t have any money!
It never should’ve been allowed in the first place. Though some are clearly profiled within the security guidelines, airport security should be one of the great equalizers in this country. The only folks that deserve a break are those serving in the armed forces. I’m happy to see this particular “service” GONE!!!
No comments Add your comment
Camille Vickers
May 26th, 2009
10:01 am
Hi Henry,
I am interested in knowing how local businesses are dealing with the changes in the economy. A list of businesses that are downsizing, and even hiring. I , also, want to know which local businesses are giving back to the community or celebrating the loyalty of its customers. I think that this will be a great informative blog.
Report this comment
John Sicher
May 26th, 2009
10:04 am
Henry Unger, when he covered the Coke beat, was one of the best business reporters on any paper. Henry, it is good having you writing again.
Report this comment
john
May 26th, 2009
6:45 pm
Listen to salesmen much? Real estate agents always think it is a great time to buy.
I’m dubious as to a rebound anytime soon. Wasn’t there an article just last week stating that there is
a 3 year oversupply of condos in Atlanta? Foreclosures are still going up, credit is still tight and the jobs market now considers it a good news when we only lose less jobs than we did last month.
It seems to me the whole economy of the last 8 years was a fake based on oversupply of loose credit. The oversupply of credit caused housing prices to skyrocket, which led to many people borrowing against their properties for items like new cars, and other big purchases based on the fact that it was free money to them since their houses were now worth so much more than they paid for it. Everyone thought if I just buy a house it will be worth twice as much in 5 years, so why not spend that money I am going to make.
Report this comment
Landlady
May 26th, 2009
8:50 pm
Condos are always a volatile investment. We can not predict the future based on condos. However, we can determine our future based on decreased inventory, housing affordability index, population growth, and unemployment. We have decreasing unemployment, a record high affordability index, declining inventories, and our population is growing. I am a 3rd generation R.E. investor, have been in the bus. for over 10 yrs,and stayed out of the Atlanta Market my entire career(properties in the Carolinas). My portfolio is still doing well. However, Atlanta is looking attractive. A rule of thumb, when you look at a property and wonder how your neighbors can afford it, run. Home values are always tied to employment and salaries.
Report this comment
what_what
May 26th, 2009
9:22 pm
FYI-not that you might be interested in data accuracy, but it might be useful to know that the consumer confidence index is based on a sample of 5,000 households.
That’s to gauge the confidence level of the entire country.
Report this comment
Stump Barnes
May 27th, 2009
1:17 am
I’ve seen Steve Palm’s prognostications of housing optimism pop up twice in the AJC in the past week. However, I’m not sold. I have several reservations about his claims. Perhaps, my problems are really due to the lack of information presented by the AJC. However, I think the following issues are worth considering when you hear the bottom calls from the real estate industrial complex:
First, Steve Palm’s SmartNumbers, according to its own website, sells “residential real estate information, analysis and forecasting for brokers, builder/developers, and mortgage and banking professionals.” There’s nothing wrong with that, but it’s quite likely that Palm falls into the trap of rooting for his clients to do well so that they will have the resources to continue to pay for his services. This the same phenomenon you see with the perma-bulls on CNBC.
Second, I would find Palm’s certainty more convincing if there was more color given on what he means by the $10,000 rise in April home prices. Seasonality plays a big part in real estate sales volume and to a lesser extent in sale prices. Go look at the charts on Calculared Risk’s blog for reference. Specifically, the spring buying season always shows improvement over the winter months. However, that does not mean the market has turned. That’s why year-over-year comparisons are thought by many to be more accurate.
Third, a big problem with Palm’s claim that February was the bottom due to the $10,000 uptick in sales price is that it’s quite possible for the median sales price to go up due to changes in the relative sales ratio of lower priced, mid-priced, and high-end homes.
For example, if in February, ten homes that once sold for $125,000 a piece were resold for $100,000 each, the resulting median sales price would be $100,000. Then, if in April, five homes that were once $125,000 each were resold for $100,000 each while another five homes that were once $150,000 each were resold for $120,000, the resulting median sales would be $10,000 higher than February. However, that median price would mask a noteworthy decline of 20% in home prices.
The above example is why the S&P/Case-Shiller Home Price Indices are probably a better indicator than Steve Palm lets on. The S&P/Case-Shiller Home Price Indices are compiled by measuring the change in resell prices for the same homes over many decades. Thus, the index uses exact comps for measuring home prices not a constantly changing, seasonally influenced mix of different houses.
As far as quoting actual real estate agents for an assessment of the housing market, I can only assume the AJC was doing this for the sake of irony.
The bottomline is that even if February was the bottom and the housing market has picked up, real estate markets do not bounce back with V-shaped recoveries like the recent stock market rally. It’s highly likely that prices will stay this depressed for some time to come. Furthermore, Atlanta’s median prices are back to year 2000 levels. On a chronological basis, that’s among the worst for the top 20 MSAs. Ouch.
Report this comment
Tom Caraney
May 27th, 2009
7:54 am
There is no doubt Neville turned things around at Coke. And his greatest legacy will be the organization he left. I don’t know where you find another Don Keough but that’s exactly what Muhtar needs. Just study Don’s style and performance and PUT THE GUY IN PLACE ASAP so Muhtar can be CEO and not President. The test will be to see if Muhtar learned from Neville to manage his ego. He had the best teacher.
Report this comment
Can't you do any better?
May 27th, 2009
9:15 am
I’m suppose to believe a real estate agent’s anecdotal and single data point opinion?
I’m suppose to believe Palm because he emphatically says “oh, I know it because I know it?. Hey. Mr. Smart Numbers, how about some data to back up your bold assertion.
Case/Shiller is actual data that gives evidence. The other points of view are uncorroborated opinions aka crap.
Report this comment
Ron DeFeo / The Home Depot
May 27th, 2009
9:25 am
Henry – Congrats on the new blog and thanks for covering our meeting this week. We’re pleased to hold the meeting right here in Atlanta again for the 3rd year in a row.
We are aware of the concerns raised by International Rivers and I would like to be clear on this for your readers – we are not a party to this issue. They have suggested that we should take a position on a proposed Hydro electric dam in Chile; a matter which needs to be solved by the citizens of Chile and their government. Certainly we take seriously our ability to affect change by doing the right thing in the communities where we do business. We have, in fact, played a key role in previous timber disputes in Chile.
However, in this matter, The Home Depot has no role to play or influence to exert. First, we do not buy any wood within 1,000 miles of this region. The organizations involved in this situation are not directly involved in harvesting any of the wood we purchase and the companies that we do purchase from are in full compliance with our strict wood purchasing policy (http://www.homedepot.com/environment).
The only connection we have to this issue is that the president of our supplier’s parent company owns shares, along with his family, in one of the companies that would work on the project. This puts us several steps away from any ability to affect change, if any were warranted.
We understand that International Rivers, based out of Berkeley, California, needs a high profile company to heighten the awareness of their campaign and we sincerely hope that a sustainable solution is possible. Unfortunately we don’t think it’s our place to weigh in on an issue that we have no expertise or influence over.
This matter is about the future supply of electricity to the citizens of Chile. It is our understanding that the Chilean government is sorting through a variety of options in an effort to determine its future electricity sources, and this decision is best made by the country and its citizens.
I look forward to seeing you tomorrow and hearing your thoughts on our meeting.
Report this comment
Chris Murphy, Atlanta, GA
May 27th, 2009
10:13 am
First time I checked in- nice blog entry, and getting HD to comment right off. Sure beats the heck out Let’s Shop For the Bomb Shelter Oliver’s column, er, rant.
Report this comment
Panagioti Tsolkas
May 27th, 2009
1:43 pm
For Immediate Release: May, 27, 2009
PRESS RELEASE:
Home Depot has Earth First! activists arrested for action against dams in Patagonia
Denver, CO– Two Earth First! activists were arrested at a Home Depot this morning in Glendale. The arrests followed a banner being hung off the roof of a Home Depot store reading “Dam Home Depot, NOT Patagonia!” Supporters of the arrested activists demand that Home Depot cut all ties and voice their opposition to this project at tomorrows corporate shareholders meeting tomorrow in Atlanta, Georgia.
The banner-drop action was intended to remind both the public and the company: “We’ve fought The Home Depot before and won.” Almost ten years ago, Earth First! groups around the country joined with Rainforest Action Network and others forced Home Depot to adopt wood product policies that removed old growth from their shelves. But their involvement in the HidroAysen project in Patagonia, Chile shows their commitments to ‘green business’ practices looking a lot like empty Public Relations.
International Rivers, an organization working to protect rivers and defend the rights of communities that depend on them, explains that:
The HidroAysen project involves 3 dams on the Pascua River and 2 dams on the Baker River that would flood globally rare forest ecosystems and some of the most productive agricultural land in the Aysen region. Electricity from these dams would be sent thousands of kilometers north to serve Chile’s biggest cities and its mammoth copper industry. More than 1,500 miles of transmission lines would require one of the world’s longest clearcuts–much of it through untouched temperate rainforests found nowhere else on the planet. US retailer The Home Depot is the largest buyer of timber products from the main Chilean interest promoting the dams. The Home Depot has been asked by thousands of people, including socially responsible investors, to stop buying timber from suppliers that plan to destroy the rivers and forests of Patagonia.
According to Ron DeFeo of Home Depot (from a blog post this morning): “we don’t think it’s our place to weigh in on an issue that we have no expertise or influence over.” While DeFeo denies the company’s involvement and refuses to accept the research of International Rivers, his blog post admits that “the president of our supplier’s parent company owns shares, along with his family, in one of the companies that would work on the project.”
Earth First!, which is more of a movement than an organization, has autonomous groups around the world who target corporations that are responsible for devastating the planet. The movement currently has a national Roadshow crossing the country to mobilize people to take action against companies like Home Depot, which is currently featured on their website http://www.earthfirstroadshow.wordpress.com
More information about this campaign at: http://internationalrivers.org/patagonia
xxx
Report this comment
don'tcare
May 27th, 2009
3:57 pm
I will always shop with those who groups like Earth First protests. I encourage everyone to shop at Home Depot, better yet, shop at a locally owned non big box type home improvement store. Support your neighbors business first.
I also strive to have the largest carbon footprint possible just to spite those who belong to the global warming/climate change cult.
Remember folks. Grill out often. Use charcoal. Fill your tank at noon. Remember..it is the SUN that causes global warming. Not much we can do about that.
Report this comment
jess
May 27th, 2009
4:21 pm
Oh yeah !! HomeDepot spokespeople have a lot of credibility ( NOT ). If there is ANY source of ANY product they can obtain that’s a fraction of a penny cheaper they will purchase it for resale. The HomeDepot creed:” Buy low Sell VERY HIGH- Screw the planet and especially the consumer” Now, in fairness, this policy is possibly nnot written but it is certainly demonstrated in their business practice. Boycott HomeDepot and support your local lumber yard and neigborhood hardware.
Report this comment
williebkind
May 27th, 2009
4:22 pm
I am going to act like a liberal! There should be a law to recover all expenses but perceived damages over groups like the ACLU, abortion rights activist, gay activists, and the International Rivers. Make the law not ambiguous and simple.
Report this comment
SpaceyG
May 27th, 2009
4:24 pm
Is some tree-hugger activist-type gonna climb a construction crane at HD headquarters again and drop a HUGE banner over I-285 about this timber issue… like they did a few years back? Hope so! That will make some good YouTube video nowadays.
Report this comment
Charlie
May 27th, 2009
4:56 pm
Jess – you’re talking about something you know nothing about. Take you head out of your a$$. Yes Home Depot buys low and sells very high (NOT). Please go to your local hardware store and you will see their prices are much higher than Home Depot’s. Your logic is very skewed.
Report this comment
Earth Guardian
May 27th, 2009
6:52 pm
I read with eager anticipation the blog about the potential action by International Rivers.
What I find curious is that Home Depot has these canned positions about the environment that fall short of making any real change. Why does not anyone question Home Depot on the materials that they are selling that are cut from the rainforests of the world only to make a buck.
Golden Ply is one of their materials where the face and back veneer originates from illegally harvested sources in Myanmar. Or how about the 5.2mm Lauan they sell day after day where the face veneer is still harvested from the rain forests. I wish someone would ask Mr. DeFeo to comment on the sources of these two products.
Home Depot has made some inroads but their policies and their actual sources are in conflict with one another. Home Depot is still the greatest proliferators of rainforest destruction in the world and for what…….some hyperbole and to make a quick buck from the death of a resource we will never replace.
Home Depot needs to drop the rhetoric and step up and lead like they used to when the founders were at the helm……
Report this comment
SimpleLeap Software
May 27th, 2009
8:12 pm
I think it would be interesting to have a weekly or monthly profile of a small/medium sized local business.
Report this comment
Gary Hughes
May 27th, 2009
8:22 pm
I applaud the AJC for delving into this issue in order that their readership be informed about the Patagonia Dams controversy and the relationship that The Home Depot continues to maintain with the Chilean interests that are promoting the damming of wild rivers in Chile’s Patagonia.
By misrepresenting the role that their supplier (CMPC/Matte Group) has in the Patagonia Dams controversy, The Home Depot continues to do a disservice to their customers and, most importantly in this instance, to their shareholders.
The main Chilean partner in the Patagonia Dam joint-venture scheme known as HidroAysén is called Colbún. Colbún owns 49% of HidroAysén (Enel, an Italian energy multi-national corporation, controls the other 51%). The Home Depot supplier Matte Group (CMPC) is considered the “de-facto” owner of Colbún, with a 49% percent share and control of the board of directors.
This economic relationship ties customers of The Home Depot to the proposal to destroy rivers and forests in Chile’s Patagonia, and is clearly contrary to The Home Depot’s stated commitment to help their customers be environmentally conscious shoppers.
A fundamental element to being an environmentally conscious shopper is to know where the consumer dollar is going — and in this case the money that Home Depot customers are spending on wood products from their Chilean suppliers is going to corporate coffers that are working to destroy rivers and flood forests found nowhere else on the planet.
We encourage The Home Depot to take advantage of this opportunity to demonstrate their commitment to a rigorous definition of environmental and corporate responsibility by severing their relationship with the Matte Group/CMPC, and/or by using their influence to help protect pristine river ecosystems in one of the Earth’s last wild places.
http://internationalrivers.org/en/blog/gary-graham-hughes/hidroays%C3%A9n-and-home-depot-myth-vs-fact
Report this comment
a housing researcher
May 27th, 2009
9:09 pm
Smart numbers data may be technically accurate in the sense that they track all sales, but unless they are able to control for changes in the types, sizes, and condition of houses being bought, they cannot say a whole lot about changes in the value of the typical house. Case Shiller does do this. Comparing simple medians or averages does not tell you how YOUR house price is likely to change. If bigger houses were sold this month than last, medians or averages would show an increase in “price” but that would not mean much.
Report this comment
Bunker
May 27th, 2009
10:17 pm
I am the biggest spammer and troll on the internet. So since this online paper allows links…
http://www.OrangeApron.com
Report this comment
Bunker
May 27th, 2009
10:29 pm
Ron DeFeo,
Are you the guy that wrote this piece of PR garbage also?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9Ww-49XrdU
I bet you are!!! They should fire you. Your PR skills suck.
http://www.OrangeApron.com
Report this comment
ornery
May 28th, 2009
6:08 am
woo hoo reading for information and basic math.. how about a real job incentive program.. not going behind the public schools where they were left behind.. Another phony solution by Sonny Phony and Thurmond Phony..
Report this comment
ornery
May 28th, 2009
6:09 am
Doesn’t he look like Lou Grant? I prefer Maria Saporta better. another useless AJC blogger
Report this comment
Lelo
May 28th, 2009
8:09 am
It hasn’t helped me yet! I’m 60 and no one will hire me even though I’m at the platinum level. Hum-m-m-m-m-m not sure what good it is other than giving the test takers a job and the rest of us false hope.
Report this comment
Name (required)
May 28th, 2009
12:55 pm
The man has an MBA from Sears, what do you expect?
Report this comment
a current employee
May 28th, 2009
1:00 pm
I am a current employee…and I totally agree that he ruined the company.
Report this comment
Pete
May 28th, 2009
1:43 pm
Bob Nardelli is an idiot. As a former GE employee (under Nardelli’s rule), I know that he ruined that company in his time there and he did the same to Home Depot. No sympathy for Home Depot, they put this moron in control and got what they deserved. I am surprised that they are still in business at all.
Report this comment
Ben
May 28th, 2009
1:50 pm
I just can’t beleive anyone hired him after that debacle. Oh wait, it was Chrysler, now it all makes sense. When Detroit is faced with options, they automatically go for the worst one.
Report this comment
Tom Davis
May 28th, 2009
2:00 pm
Would say he ran a Mickey Mouse operation…but that would be an insult to Mickey Mouse. A two bit pirate comes to mind.
Report this comment
Observer
May 28th, 2009
2:05 pm
I doubt if there will be a long list of Fortune 500 companies in line to hire him when he leaves Chrysler. Talk about a legacy of failure…
Report this comment
eric
May 28th, 2009
2:08 pm
smoke and mirrors for everyone I guess that was the true promise made to everyone by our politicians. I couldn’t pay someone to hire me at this point. I actually got a call for a job that made $5hr for 4 hrs a day when i returned there call they never called back.
Report this comment
NEWS: Home Depot, our pension plan, and the Patagonia power project
May 28th, 2009
2:29 pm
[...] More on this at http://blogs.ajc.com/business-beat/2009/05/27/timber-controversy-at-home-depot-annual-meeting-thursd… [...]
Report this comment
Whattheheck
May 28th, 2009
2:34 pm
he will be hired again. what us stupid middle class americans dont know is that the boards of these large companies all have incestuous relationships. i forgot the website, but it tracked board members and their relationships. it was a shock to see how many boards were run by the same people, either the person themselve, a spouse, a board member of their company, etc. nardelli will get hired again because he is one of them.
you ask: what about the shareholders? give me a break. most of the large fortune 100 companies (which your 401k is likely largely based on) are owned in major part by institutional investors, i.e. companies. guess who sits on their boards? yeah, you got it.
Now you know.
Report this comment
Whattheheck
May 28th, 2009
2:36 pm
i also would like to get to know more about local companies that are big in their community, hire locally (i.e. dont send jobs out to india), and are good companies. basically, i would like to know who to support.
Report this comment
Mary Huff
May 28th, 2009
2:42 pm
Hi, Henry. I’d like to read about savvy advertising and PR strategies that are working for Atlanta companies during the downturn – doing more on smaller budgets, brilliant ideas that get big bang for the buck. Ranging from the corner dry cleaner to Coke and UPS.
Report this comment
jakesdad
May 28th, 2009
2:42 pm
is he the record holder for biggest severance given to a fired CEO? wasn’t it something like $200M? for being FIRED?
I can somewhat comprehend winning $200M in the lottery, I can NOT comprehend getting paid $200M to do A JOB well but $200M for getting FIRED from a job? I remember reading an interview w/Scott Adams (Dilbert) years ago where he said the thing that amazed him most was that no matter how much hyperbole he tried to use in his strips he’d ALWAYS get email from readers saying: “that’s nothing – this REALLY HAPPENED at my office:”. I have a hard time thinking of a better example…
Report this comment
CP
May 28th, 2009
3:00 pm
Nardelli was never a consumer-oriented CEO. He had no clue about running a company almost totally dependent on small consumers. No wonder Chrysler is bankrupt – he was not the right choice to run another consumer oriented company as evidenced by his tenure at Home Depot. Home Depot still has poor service, and I go to Lowe’s whenever possible. Evidently so does everyone else.
Report this comment
gatorman770
May 28th, 2009
3:19 pm
Our tax and spend congress needs to pass laws to protect stockholders from Scumbag corporate raiders like Bob Nardelli and their board of director lackeys. No CEO at a publicly traded company should get or is worth more than 5 million dollars a year total compensation including stock options unless they have dramatically increased the stock value and INCREASED the NUMBER OF AMERICAN JOBS. Any severence packages should be based on the same percentage of salary and years of service as the average employee of the corporation unless approved my a majority of the individual stockholders, i.e. institutional investors would have one vote for, not one vote per share. The idea that corporations must offer the present outrageous compensation packages whether the executive grow the companies or lose hundreds of millions of dollars for the stockholders and the economy is ludicrous!
Report this comment
Johnson
May 28th, 2009
3:19 pm
Ken Langone was not going to sleep until he got Nardelli to run HD. Two spineless fools.
Report this comment
HC
May 28th, 2009
3:20 pm
I quit shopping Home Depot after he destroyed customer service. I always shop at Lowe’s now and will never darken a Home Depot door again.
Report this comment
Jesse Sewell
May 28th, 2009
3:50 pm
Do any of you know where I can buy some of that ‘old-growth’ timber for a dog house I’m working on. That sounds like good stuff.
Report this comment
Bill Culpepper, Jr
May 28th, 2009
4:18 pm
I keep hearing that the luxury travel market is really suffering.
The famed Cloister at SeaIsland is no exception. Rumors abound about it’s future. Anyone out there know what is going on? Thanks.
Report this comment
they're just employees
May 28th, 2009
4:21 pm
What the arrogant Prince Nardelli did at HD is not much different than what the dunderheads Allen and Mullin did at Delta. Very little regard for customer service, a hallmark of each corporation at one time. Let’s hope Messrs. Blake and Anderson can restore some of the past to these two Atlanta institutions.
Report this comment
The Voice
May 28th, 2009
4:31 pm
Gatorman rethink your statement. Do you really want the government involved in private and public held companies any more that they already are. Presbo Obamalama is making decisions for companies as large as GM and he has never held a job in the public sector. Make perfect sense to me.
Report this comment
The Voice
May 28th, 2009
4:33 pm
I hate to say it but Nardummy did not destroy the customer service. The employees did that by their “I don’t care if you find it or not” attitude. Just because you disagree with the management why would you take it out on the people that buy your products and pay your salary????
Report this comment
Ex Stockholder
May 28th, 2009
4:44 pm
The entire Home Depot board of directors should have been indicted after the severence bonus they gave him. I sold my stock in protest
and will not do business…..
Report this comment
MountainDawg
May 28th, 2009
4:46 pm
Nardelli is another (grossly) overpaid Corporate shyster/raider with a “platinum parachute” who ran HD into the ground.
Report this comment
DirtyDawg
May 28th, 2009
4:54 pm
Hey Voice, if you don’t appreciate the fact that ‘pride’ in your company, your job and your fellow workers is what drives a service-based corporation – or indeed any corporation – then you just don’t get it. When management’s attitude toward employees changes for the worst, employee morale wanes. When employee morale wanes their enthusiasm for the job becomes apparent to all, especially to customers. Nardelli was the epitome of corporate leadership of the past twenty years – top management greed and a laissez-faire mindset that felt ‘not getting caught in a tax dodge was the same thing as not breaking the law in the first place. He never understood what made Home Depot successful, but what bothers me is that Bernie and Arthur didn’t make sure he did before they made him their successor. The one thing that says, at least to me, the most about Nardelli was that he was one of the most successful fund-raisers for Bush/Cheney. As one of their valued Rangers he accumulated tens of millions for the cause – a cause whose business philosophy has gotten us into this mess. Bob Nardelli should be a poster boy for what’s been wrong with US corporations – along with Ken Lay – both of which, by the way were Bush cronies, or perhaps it was the other way around.
Report this comment
Daniel Gonzalez
May 28th, 2009
5:20 pm
I write from Patagonia. As a Chilean I believe The Home Depot cannot avoid the fact that by purchasing products from one of Chile’s largest wood product company, CMPC, they are aiding in the destruction of our country’s remaining wild areas found in Patagonia. In the last 30 years most of our landscapes and ecosystems have been raped by foreign investors, aided by out of control investment laws endorsed by our own government. Corporations from the USA,Canada, Europe, Australia, Japan and other countries come to Chile to exploit our forests, soil, water, minerals and oceans, they directly or indirectly (by partnering with unscrupulous partners in Chile) mine, clear-cut, overfish, pollute, and in general destroy what little is left in terms of natural beauty. As Home Depot buys from powerful local economic groups like the Matte/CMPC conglomerate, they directly facilitate the expansion of these groups into other sectors of our unregulated extractive economy. It is in part Home Depot’s dollars (and other giant retailers) that allow CMPC investment in other companies like Colbun, the chilean energy giant, formerly owned by the state, now in control, along with italian Enel, of the mega dams project which if approved, will forever defaced one of the world’s remaining wilderness areas. We are running out of these areas, and with them hundreds of animal and plant species, magnificent glaciers, native forests, and local communities for years undisturbed and free of the anxieties and materialistic lives the so called “developed world” enjoys today. If the Home Depot is serious about leading the way in the social and enviro responsibility areas, then it should use its powerful influence as one of the world’s giants and tell suppliers like Matte/CMPC to reassess their involvement in destructive practices and projects like the current 2,700 megawatt proposal to dam the unique Baker and Pascua Rivers in Patagonia. Not doing it and still claim they are taking steps to help protect the world’s forests is nothing but bullshit, and in that case US customers should boycott the Home Depot. It’s pretty simple, so as a chilean I ask you americans to put pressure on this and any other companies destroying our “third world” right to clean water and healthy forests, and of course come and visit Patagonia, you won’t be disappointed
Report this comment
joe biden senior
May 28th, 2009
5:30 pm
nardelli should take the likes of pelosi, reid and a host of other pieces of sewage and just disappear…
Report this comment
Bunker
May 29th, 2009
4:18 am
Ron DeFeo,
You should be ashamed of yourself! What kind of PR hack posts rebuttals in the comments section? Come back on here and defend your position. This debacle is a perfect example of why you should be fired. Spamming the internet should only be left to the professionals like me!
Bunker
Report this comment
Bunker
May 29th, 2009
4:19 am
I hope the AJC doesn’t mind, but we linked this article on…
http://www.OrangeApron.com
Report this comment
Bunker
May 29th, 2009
4:23 am
Looking forward to your updates on The Home Depot!
http://www.OrangeApron.com
Report this comment
Jeff Johnson
May 29th, 2009
9:23 am
Do not get mad at Nardelli for accepting such a generous pay package. Would you have turned it down? Blame them that made the offer.
Report this comment
godoggo ~
May 29th, 2009
10:34 am
I second that John on Henry. Not only is Henry a great reporter that is acutely aware of the “markets and systems”, (as you are also well aware of John)….But a great family man to.
Report this comment
J.D.
May 29th, 2009
11:00 am
Man, I bet Chrysler wishes Iacocca had been at the helm the last few years. He pulled them from the brink of disaster back in the 80’s and stood the best chance for a repeat performance.
Report this comment
Turd Fergusen
May 29th, 2009
11:03 am
Thats too bad. Iacocca saved this sorry lot, from themselves, back in the 80’s with the luxurious “K Car” and now they want to treat him in this manner? Well they all must contribute something to the Kitty.
The Big 3 have had this coming for years and its long over due. I for one have would like to wish them ONE AND ALL a Happy *POOT* in the face.
Report this comment
OZZFEST
May 29th, 2009
11:06 am
Lee aint gonna being hurtin’….he will just call W and have a helicoptor sent to taxi him around. As for Bob, he can do the same…when you host the President at your $10M Vinings mansion it is safe to say you do not have to fear for anything the rest of your life.
Report this comment
TPD
May 29th, 2009
11:16 am
Nardelli ran Home Depot into the ground but walked away with $200 million. For what?? Sweetheart deals like this are why people think there should be limits on what a CEO can make. I disagree with this concept, but guys like Nardelli make it seem appealing! When you take a highly profitable company and run it into the ground like Nardelli did, you’ve got a lot of nerve walking away with that much money. High levels executives like that should be awarded for how much they improve the company!
Report this comment
Last Word
May 29th, 2009
11:20 am
Nardelli’s a tool.
Report this comment
CJKatl
May 29th, 2009
11:23 am
One cannot help but think that unlike the corporate executives of today, Mr. Iacocca probably understands why he is losing the car and looks at it as a minor inconvenience for the better good of the company.
In Mr. Iacocca’s day, corporate executives were company leaders who understood their role in guiding the company for the good of its consituencies: shareholders, employees and customers.
Nowadays, corporations mostly have greedy short-timers at the helm. Nowadays, corporate executives mostly look for how much money they can strip from the company and put in their own pockets. Rainy day funds have been treated as piggybanks. Now that the rainy day is here, the executives are rich, but the companies are looking for government bailouts.
Mr. Iacocca was someone who understood cars and car companies. We need more leaders like him – people who understand their industry -and fewer greedy bean counters who think that failed stints at electric goods manufacturer and running a previously successful home improvement center into the ground qualifies one to run a car manufacturer.
After having been passed over for the top job at GE, putting HD into intensive care and killing Chrysler, you-know-who probably still be able to get a job running a company. Look how many times that woman from Delta/Mirant has failed, yet still gotten hired in top posts. Corporate boards hire people with failed track records who do not know their specific industries to run companies and then are surprised when the companies fail.
Thank you for the space to rant.
Report this comment
UAWRules
May 29th, 2009
11:25 am
If management would give the union workers more money and benefits, they would make better cars–very simple. Now, there’s little incentive to make high quality cars because the workers know that management is out for themselves, and not the workers and the union.
Report this comment
I Wish
May 29th, 2009
11:27 am
I wish GM would take my car back and include it in “THEIR” bankruptcy. That would make me very happy….
Report this comment
JayD
May 29th, 2009
11:37 am
“Little incentive”? – How about keeping your job – Thats my incentive for doing my job well.
Report this comment
cliff zeider
May 29th, 2009
11:39 am
Hey, Don’t worry about Lee Iacocca, I hear he drives a good car, Audi.
Report this comment
EMMA
May 29th, 2009
11:47 am
WTF!!!! Iacocca was the best thing that happened to Chrysler and after reading the autobiography he pulled that company from beyond the brink. They have alot of nerve. Lee they are doing you WRONG!!!!
Report this comment
C.M. Thornton, III
May 29th, 2009
11:48 am
UAWBlowes. The unions have run the American car companies into the ground. An example is the Jobs Bank. Union workers getting paid top dollar to do absolutely NOTHING. And this is just one example of how the existance of the unions have had a detrimental affect on American car companies.
http://wsjclassroom.com/archive/06may/auto2_jobsbank.htm
Unions make the worker LAZY and do NOT provide an incentitive to make high quality cars.
Report this comment
Chief
May 29th, 2009
11:54 am
Thanks for nothing, UNION!
Report this comment
The Truth
May 29th, 2009
11:56 am
Don’t blame the CEO’s. Their compensation is just part of the competitive environment. To limit what they make would be the same as socialism. The government SUCKS at doing everything. Why trust them to run one of the world’s biggest businesses. That is asking for disaster!
Report this comment
UAWSux
May 29th, 2009
11:57 am
Union autoworkers were already making good money and benefits and the quality and fuel-efficiency of American automobiles still lags behind foreign cars. Throwing more money and benefits at them won’t solve the problem. Union workers need a reality check. Spend some time working in the real world and you’ll learn how good you’ve got it.
Report this comment
Susan
May 29th, 2009
12:00 pm
“If management would give the union workers more money and benefits, they would make better cars” Are you kidding me? You want more?? The union’s lazy workers already get paid way too much for doing way too little! The unions have manipulated Chrysler and GM for decades and they can’t turn things around because of the unreasonable things they’ve already agreed to so auto workers will work (which they still don’t). Good riddance to bad rubbish, I say! I love my VW!
Report this comment
blondval
May 29th, 2009
12:00 pm
Nardelli ran Home Depot into the ground and walked away with millions. He’s running Chrysler into the ground and he will walk away with millions again.
AND GUESS WHAT: SOME OTHER FOOL COMPANY WILL HIRE HIM TO RUN THEM INTO THE GROUND!
Report this comment
Bryant
May 29th, 2009
12:01 pm
The unions are what ran the automakers in the ground. There is no place for unions in modern times. Only the ignorant support unions in this day and age.
Report this comment
Jeff
May 29th, 2009
12:05 pm
That’s pretty sad considering what he did for this company. question?? what are the idiots that drove the company down the drain geting??? hmmmm….golden parachutes???
Report this comment
Jimbo Slice
May 29th, 2009
12:06 pm
Did the government and the unions force Chrysler to make crappy, gas guzzling, unreliable cars that have horrible re-sale value? No! Chrysler had this coming for a long time. Let them go under.
Report this comment
G
May 29th, 2009
12:08 pm
UAWRules you have got to be kidding??? Do you actually believe the way to correct the problem is to, Pay the workers more, they will then build better cars? The UAW sure did wonders for Detriot.
Report this comment
j rev
May 29th, 2009
12:09 pm
You people do realize that the UAW has made considerable concessions in order to keep this company afloat. The investors on the other hand……………
Report this comment
j rev
May 29th, 2009
12:12 pm
And I am completely anti union. The unions were horribly inefficient , and expenses were way over their value,but you have to blame the right people for the current fiasco.
Report this comment
Tired of It
May 29th, 2009
12:16 pm
C.M. is correct. The UAW is to blame and until our Illustrious Idiot In Chief fixes the problem the auto industry will go down just like Eastern Airlines did….all because of worthless unions. This will never be fixed due to the Union support of the Democratic party. They will not get rid of their voting block there…hopefully we will see them just go away. They are idiots, and all their jobs will be sent to China and they will be gone due to lack of jobs….serves them right…in the meantime we as a country will suffer!!!
Report this comment
TC6483
May 29th, 2009
12:16 pm
wow, union rules, I cannot believe you seriously mean this. I am also a UAW member, and most of us always said we would rather give something up to keep a job, than more money, and no job. We as union workers have always been proud in our work, have always build what management wanted us to build. Unfortunately we had nothing to do with the designs. I am proud to be a UAW member, proud of my fellow members. Most of us work hard. I am not saying every one does. There are always 5% bad apples in the bunch, that make the other 95% also look bad.
Report this comment
Tired of It
May 29th, 2009
12:27 pm
Jimbo…that was lame dude. You should really check your facts before you post…..you come off sounding like an idiot.Ive got a Magnum with 450hp that gets 23mpg on the highway…not too bad dude….My Viper resale hasnt been killed either so what are you referring to????Check the resale on a 5-7yr old Mercedes and tell me what resale sux
Report this comment
Reality Check
May 29th, 2009
12:28 pm
Since when did the UAW have the power to deccide what type of cars a company will make? The big three spent YEARS designing and selling cars that did not show wel vs. the competition. They were pushing Hummers and Excursions while Honda and Toyota were making selling tons of Camrys and Accords. To blame the rank and file Union members is just plain silly. Leadership comes from the top and in he case of the Big Three, Top Management drove them to this point!!
Report this comment
blondval
May 29th, 2009
12:35 pm
To “The Truth”…Limiting the compensation of CEO’s is “socialism”? NO! It’s called capitalism! You get paid what you’re worth! And most of these idiots driving these companies under with their short term thinking should be ousted, not given millions! What the hell did Nardelli know about running a car company? NOTHING! and yet the board of directors hired him! THEY should be the first to be replaced!
Report this comment
If The Union Workers could make better jobs Then.....
May 29th, 2009
12:36 pm
they are jipping every buyer of American cares. A man with any pride
ALWAYS gives 100%.
A union worker ALWAYS looks to screw over everyone while they beg for more.
Report this comment
If The Union Workers could make better CARS Then.....
May 29th, 2009
12:37 pm
Sorry for the misprint, was so angry at the thief union worker for saying they could make better cars.
What a con artist those guys are.
Report this comment
blondval
May 29th, 2009
12:37 pm
Where are the Lee Iacocca’s of this world when we need them?
Report this comment
SG
May 29th, 2009
12:40 pm
j rev
You are right on target. The UAW has made concessions to help keep the company afloat. To bad they were over 20 years too late. But if you like the idea of secured debtors not being paid fairly and the UAW receiving more (way more) than it should, then you must really love the UAW. Fact is these people in the UAW need the UAW. They have no other skills or abilities to become productive in the real world. The UAW is the private sectors version of welfare. Time for it to go, too many leeches. Investors are bad people. They provide the capital so these leeches can work. UAW is out of touch with the free market and i personally am glad to see it finally starting to fail.
Report this comment
Tired
May 29th, 2009
12:42 pm
File BR and close the company down, Let go all the workers, Push the Union to the curb, Open back up and hire the employees at normal wages with normal benefits, Throw regulation out the door and start building cars that people can afford with good gas milage.
Thats how you fix the Big three car dealers.
Report this comment
kcohen
May 29th, 2009
12:45 pm
If the Big Three manufactured cars that everday folk wanted to buy, it wouldn’t have mattered very much if the line employees are UAW or not. Look at the design cycle time – the last time a saw a WSJ article on it, Honda and Toyota run theirs at two to three years, while Detroit was consistently three to five years minimum. That’s a huge difference, and the Unions have virtually nothing to do with it.
Report this comment
SG
May 29th, 2009
12:45 pm
Tired i agree
Report this comment
Tired of It
May 29th, 2009
12:45 pm
Reality Check…your an idiot also…the big 3 spent their time pushing SUVs because thats what was selling….economics 101 you dolt!…The SUVs would have been quite a bit cheaper if they were not paying UAW labor 45 bucks an hour to turn a screw 5 times to the right every 90 seconds….take a look at the most productive auto assembly plant in the US…Toyota plant in Georgetown, Ky…no union labor period…wouldnt even hire anyone with previous auto experience.
Report this comment
Earl the Plumber
May 29th, 2009
12:48 pm
It seems Ford has improved and adapted a bit (veering away from the Expedition-type cars). Chrysler and GM on the other hand have been churning out some sho-nuff crap over the last few years. My sister’s 2006 Pacific virtually explored in a little over a year of ownership. The company had to replace her entire engine at the cost of nearly $5000! Also, the vaunted PT Cruiser is considered by many to be the worst of them all with its tiny, under-powered engine and heavy frame. I’m sticking with Honda.
Report this comment
Earl the Plumber
May 29th, 2009
12:49 pm
. . .exploded not “explored”–oops
Report this comment
zoehannah
May 29th, 2009
12:49 pm
The unions are what has brought these companies to bankruptcy. They get paid very good money but are the laziest workers in the world. Giving them more money will not improve the quality of american cars. American cars are not worth the money you pay for. And, the quality of the car should not determine on how much money a union worker makes. Believe me, they are WAY OVER PAID.
Report this comment
They've Had It Coming
May 29th, 2009
12:50 pm
I’m not pro union but these bankruptcies are clearly the fault of management (who caved in to the union’s every demand). Nothing wrong with American workers – they build great Hondas, Mercedes, BMWs and Toyotas. Who designed this Chrysler and GM schlock?
Report this comment
blondval
May 29th, 2009
12:51 pm
Does anyone know what the Toyota plant in Georgetown pays their workers?
Report this comment
Tired of It
May 29th, 2009
12:54 pm
blondval…its i tiered system …starts at about 15 hr and goes up
Report this comment
Tired of It
May 29th, 2009
12:56 pm
they also have great benefits along with daycare for kids….things they can afford not having to overpay for labor
Report this comment
blondval
May 29th, 2009
1:12 pm
Don’t we think that 15.00 an hour is a little excessive for people with no experience? I was thinking maybe minimum wage. AND day care. We don’t have daycare at my place of employment!
Report this comment
kremlin
May 29th, 2009
1:12 pm
To understand why GM and Chrysler failed and the mentality of Bob Nardelli just look at what MBA programs teach. Think short-term and max profits regardless of customer service, bad resource management(capital, human, etc) and strategic planning for where the company should be in 10 years.
I worked for a bankrupt company in the 90-’s and all the corporate executives after the crap hit the fan, got executive jobs with other fortune 500 companies such as controller, vp, president after posting million dollar deficits for quarters, eventually filing chapter 11 and accusations of fraud when the bankruptcy hearing started.
As for the unions, now is the time to pay the piper. You overpriced yourselves with your union mentality, which lead to loss of market share. You build crappy cars because you thought you worked for UAW and not GM, Chrysler and did poor QOS. Now go ask UAW for a job, you forgot about the customers who are your real boss.
Without the customer, you have no job.
Report this comment
Michael
May 29th, 2009
1:31 pm
When Chrsyler hired Bob Nardelli they signed their own death warrant. RIP Chrsyler.
Report this comment
Jimbo Slice
May 29th, 2009
1:37 pm
Tired of it
Real apples to apples there dude. You pick the Viper out of all of Chrysler’s cars to talk about their resale value. What about the rest of their crap? Like the Stratus, Sebring, or PT Cruiser, try trading one of those in. I’m not saying all of their cars suck, just most of them.
Report this comment
ncgreybr
May 29th, 2009
1:40 pm
WHY did Chrysler hire Nardelli? In what way was he more qualified than the other people on the short list? Was it because he only sent ONE company to the brink of Chapter 11 as opposed to the others that sent 2 or 3 to the edge? I OWN a company. There is NO WAY I would hire someone who managed a failed company! NO WAY! But yet these major corporations do it over and over again. Draw from the same pool of losers.
Report this comment
Average Joe
May 29th, 2009
1:40 pm
Both sides are seriously to blame. The automakers need to build a better product and unions need to stop leveraging for better pay and benefits. Look around. A lot of people don’t get pensions these days or make the kind of money these workers make for doing far more strenuous and dangerous jobs. They certainly don’t get paid for not working. For the rest of us average Joe’s the only thing remotely close to a pension is called a 401K and we all know how wonderfully they look these days. Let them fail. Do we really need umteen varieties of the same vehicle? See GMC v. Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, Ford, Mercury, Cadillac and the list goes on and on. . Unions were great when they represented the working man for unsafe working conditions (see Coal Miners). They were not created to fatten thy wallet. See UAW. Also I may be mistaken but I don’t believe the foreign manufacturers creating jobs here in this country allow unions…
Report this comment
Justin Kase
May 29th, 2009
1:45 pm
What is justice? Seeing Bob Nardelli’s face on the side of a milk carton.
Report this comment
Cmann
May 29th, 2009
1:45 pm
You all blame the unions, but what product have the big 3 put out that you really really want to buy. In the 1980s, GM had the Trans Am, Grand Am, and nice Buicks. Ford had the Probe in the 90s. Today, they sell boring cars here. The European Ford Focus is beautiful, but we do not get that here.. The Chinese Buick Park Avenue rivals Mercedes, but not available in the US… blame management and marketing…. I am a business major and management clearly failed at all three companies….
Report this comment
David
May 29th, 2009
1:59 pm
I am the last one to defend the dirty unions. However, they didn’t run these companies in the ground.
You learn in business 101 it is poor management decisions. That is like blaming the janitor at the company because it is a mess. Management made the decision to let him get away with it.
Poor management decisions and superior competition ran the auto industry in the dirt.
Americans just don’t want to admit it. If I let my kid run wild, is it my fault or my kids?
Report this comment
Tired of It
May 29th, 2009
2:00 pm
Jimbo…i just gave a couple of examples….your examples were on the low end of the spectrum. Going by what you stated, check the resale on a Toyota Tercel, Nissan Sentra. they both really stink….doesnt mean they were terrible cars. Check Mercedes and Volvo…also terrible, but not bad cars. The Big 3 made a big turnaround in quality since the 80-90s….believe me, I worked for Toyota for 12yrs and was easy to sell against them back then…they were garbage…today its not the case….show me 1 import with 400+ hp that gets 23mpg on the highway…..this is really an amazing stat…..Chrysler has several and GM has the Vette which actually does get 20+mpg and is a sports car. People complain about gas burning AMerican Cars…well hell…we have all models available here and what do people wanna buy? I had a Hummer…loved it…10mpg downhill….never had a minutes problem with it…great vehicle. I dont want some nutbag president dictating to me the MPG my car should get when his dumb a– is campaigning on the AMerican taxpayers dime in a 747 that costs 300k a day to operate….hypocrisy at its finest from this idiot…were all in deep trouble!!!
Report this comment
Tired of It
May 29th, 2009
2:04 pm
cmann….take a look at the new Dodge Challenger and tell me thats not pretty cool. Look at the new Camaro(i dont like it) …but pretty cool. What about the Chrysler 300 and Magnum….not too bad and 425hp available….check out the Ford GT….really cool but 150k…the Viper is nasty…just saw a new Impalla SS at Indy…open your eyes and look around
Report this comment
Jimbo Slice
May 29th, 2009
2:09 pm
Tired of it
The big 3 has indeed made a turnaround in quality, but Chrysler is still lacking behind GM and Ford in quality big time. Everyone knows that, why are you in denial? Is that you behind the keyboard Nardelli?
Report this comment
ncgreybr
May 29th, 2009
2:22 pm
I have to agree with “Average Joe”, there’s enough blame to go around for everyone to get some. Management was too concerned about their paychecks (I need 10 more million!)to manage. Designers were 10 years behind the times. The unions were all out for themselves and “to hell” with the company. (Union management did a GREAT job of getting everything they could for their guys…and that was their job!) God only knows what the boards of directors were doing, certainly NOT directing. The stockmarket investor was only interested in a dividend. NO ONE was interested in the longevity of the COMPANY!
Report this comment
ncgreybr
May 29th, 2009
2:40 pm
If it wasn’t for “nutbag” Presidents insisting on better MPG (to save our environment, atmosphere, use of impoted oil…WHATEVER) we would still be trying to produce 10 MPG “downhill” vehicles here while the rest of the world is producing 35 MPG vehicles.
Report this comment
George
May 29th, 2009
2:47 pm
“If the union workers got higher pay, they’d make better cars.” You kidding right? Fire the people that think that way and get people that want/need a job. I promise you the Asians don’t think that way!
Report this comment
we lose
May 29th, 2009
2:51 pm
I buy American cars. I want to continue to buy American cars. Last year I went to the car show in search of a good midsize car. I’m sorry, but all the American cars I sat in just seemed like junk compared to similar priced japanese versions. I didn’t want it to be like that. Tried hard to convince myself otherwise, but it was impossible.
American companies have a $7K+ burden of union mandated benefits on each car. It essentially means that the Americans must sell you a $17K car for $24K. The competition gets to sell a car without that burden (ie. a car that should go for 17K is selling for $24K against a car that actually was built as a $24K car). The American car companies will NEVER be able to compete with that albatross around their neck.
Void the UAW contract. Let the ones that want to come back to work under more realistic terms come back. The ones that don’t can go work elsewhere. Sorry, but floor sweepers don’t deserve $32 an hour and healthcare for life. Car companies (or any other company for that matter) just can’t afford it.
Quite honestly, I’m not sure we can justify 3 major car companies in the US anymore. While painful, they may not be viable under any circumstances. They are definitely not viable with the current union agreements.
Report this comment
Tired of It
May 29th, 2009
3:28 pm
ncgreybr…..i assume you are a liberal nutbag treehugger also….1 question….how many 35mpg vehicles do Mercedes, Volvo, Saab, BMW, Aston Martin, Ferrari, Porshe, Lamborghini, Maserati, Land Rover, Range Rover etc… produce???
Quick answer none….there are too few tree huggers out there to drive demand….economics 101….law of supply and demand…if there were a demand for these, private companies would build them and profit from them….in a socialist economy like our “nutbag president” is creating, we will all be forced to drive Tatas, Yugos and other socialist wonders like that. There is no market for unsafe overpriced high mileage vehicles, except in the tre huggin markets….hey yall can have um…bless you…..just dont pull out in front of my gas sucking SUV and youll be OK!!!!!
Report this comment
mike
May 29th, 2009
3:29 pm
It is very simple…..GM and Chrysler failed because the public did not support their products at the prices they tried to sell them…..just because the government now owns them does not mean these same people will now buy these products….this will go down as a $100 billion dollar diaster and the people repsonsible; Obama, the democrats and the unions will not take any responsibility….remember they are spending taxpayers money….they have no skin in the game……the real investors were screwed…..all Americans should send a message to this government and not purchase any GM or Chrysler products at any price….that is the only thing left for the taxpayers….their voices are not being heard as the pigs at the trough of the government “teat” are drowning out all common sense…….do you think Obama, all the democrats and all the union members would put their own money up as collateral? not a chance in this world……
Report this comment
Tired of It
May 29th, 2009
3:33 pm
Mike……AMEN!!!!!
Report this comment
Buzz
May 29th, 2009
4:00 pm
“If management would give the union workers more money and benefits, they would make better cars–very simple. Now, there’s little incentive to make high quality cars because the workers know that management is out for themselves, and not the workers and the union.”
Give the unions MORE money? Did you honestly say that? The contracts with the UAW were killing them.
Report this comment
Buzz
May 29th, 2009
4:06 pm
j rev said “You people do realize that the UAW has made considerable concessions in order to keep this company afloat. The investors on the other hand……………”
Gee, make concessions or lose everything…tough choice. The investors shouldn’t have to make concessions as they were the ones footing the bills.
Report this comment
ncgreybr
May 29th, 2009
4:34 pm
Tired of this: “economics 101….law of supply and demand…if there were a demand for these, private companies would build them and profit from them…”
I’m sure Toyota, Nisson and VW are just flukes…and yes, my Nisson Altima safely gets 34 mpg on the highway.
BTW, the name calling and slurs (because you don’t have an arguement)routine doesn’t work with me.
Report this comment
blondval
May 29th, 2009
4:44 pm
“ncgreybr…..i assume you are a liberal nutbag treehugger also….1 question….how many 35mpg vehicles do Mercedes, Volvo, Saab, BMW, Aston Martin, Ferrari, Porshe, Lamborghini, Maserati, Land Rover, Range Rover etc… produce???
Quick answer none….there are too few tree huggers out there to drive demand…”
I think Toyota produces more Cambrys than all the ones you listed together. Yes, there is a market for high mileage vehicles. You’re just too ignorant to see it. Intelligent patriotic people drive high mileage vehicles.
Report this comment
Buzz
May 29th, 2009
4:57 pm
My Silverado has 250,000 miles on the clock. My Trailblazer has 172,000. Both have held up just fine. GMs quality isn’t as bad as many make them out to be. Granted I do also have a Camry and it already has 52,000 miles. The quality of both companies has been pretty good.
I am eyeing the new Camaro as it looks quite nice to me. Though I wouldn’t have a problem if I ended up with a Challenger.
Report this comment
ncgreybr
May 29th, 2009
5:08 pm
Buzz: I agree about the quality. I have a 98 Ford PU with a little over 200,000 miles on it and the only problem has been a little clutch problem. Not even enough to take in and have fixed. Before that I had a Chev truck. Got 200,000 on that one too. Before that, a FOrd PU that finally died of old age. The only reason I’ve got the Nisson Altima (besides the rear end looking so hot!) is that my head rubbed the liner on the Monte Carlo. I would have bought the Monte Carlo in a heartbeat!
Why doesn’t Detroit go back to the classics and rebuild a few of them using modern technology? I would love to have an old style/but updated Malibu or Cutlass muscle car. How about a 59 Caddy that gets 35 MPG!
Report this comment
Daniel
May 29th, 2009
5:41 pm
O.K. the unions didn’t do it. The management did. GM, Ford, & Chrysler management should have grown some and thrown the unions out years ago. No one deserves that kind of pay and lifetime healthcare for screwing doorknobs on or sweeping floors. No business model will support that. When will the American automakers get a clue and kick the unions out and re-hire a workforce at a reasonable wage commensurate with skills required for the job. Maybe then they would have a chance at being profitable. The democrats and the unions will be the downfall of this country.
Report this comment
kevin
May 30th, 2009
3:09 pm
current employee of home depot… been with home depot for 11 years and sitll miss bernie and arthur. when this idiot, suck up from ge came to us we all could see problems right away. he tried to run the company like a manufacturing company rather than a retail company. too many reports and stupid base lines. might work in manufacturing but not in retail. the only thing he did was take away from customer satisfaction. i am glad he failed at chrysler. he should be labled as not one of the worst ceo’s in america.. but as the worse. any company hiring him should be forewarned… he will ruin you.
Report this comment
Joel Green
June 1st, 2009
7:32 am
Last time I looked Toyota lost bilions,Nissan was French owned and Honda was scrambling to sell vehicles it could not move off it lots. The union costs that put US manufactors over the top are our health care costs in this country. US manufactors were just to loyal to dealers and its workers, indeed how unamerican.
Report this comment
MANGLER
June 1st, 2009
12:00 pm
The stock market is based primarily on investor confidence and loosely on the overall health of the economy . People forgot this little fact over time. Just like when the banks were bailed out and the concept of credit being freed up caused some spikes in the DOW, this move will as well. Once the excitement wears off a little, investors will remember that there are still problems, and add a natural disaster or two in there, and things will drop again. It could be compared to a new store or restaurant that just opened. People get all excited and flock to it, causing demand. Then once they’ve been there, they aren’t as curious any more and excitement drops off. If its a great place, then it will survive. If not, it will fold.
Report this comment
PoliticalMan
June 1st, 2009
12:10 pm
The first reaction could be negative, but it wasn’t. That does say a lot about investors and economic principles. Laissez-faire may be mouthed, but when it comes to plunking down money, people want more control than rogue or incompetent CEOs provide. Maybe if we admitted this before things go South, we could eliminate the convulsions.
Report this comment
bushwacker
June 1st, 2009
12:16 pm
This just shows the stock market is evil!!!
I moved most of my 401 money into BOnds last week expecting a good size drop today because of GM filing.
Also I thought OBama was going to do something about speculating in the oil markets, but here we go with oil taking off again,is any one in WASH paying attention???
Report this comment
Randyt
June 1st, 2009
12:29 pm
I was a stock broker for 14 years. There are several reasons why the Dow would go up.
“Buy on the bad news, sell on the good” is an old stock market axiom. The market moves on “expectation” not “realization”. It has had months to prepare for the actual event of GM filing.
The stock market is a “leading indicator”. The market is demonstrating what it senses six months from now, not today.
Re the oil prices, I would suggest that they are rising on the “expectation” that the economy is getting ready to improve. The stock market might just be concurring with potential economic news and considering it more significant than the increase in oil.
Just my two cents anyway.
Report this comment
JMM
June 1st, 2009
12:47 pm
DITTO what CJKatl said. That is the entire situation exactly in a nutshell. Corporate greed at any cost. Including employees, neighborhood little league teams and the country.
Report this comment
rick
June 1st, 2009
1:03 pm
The Dow dropped GM from its index today.
Report this comment
bushwacker
June 1st, 2009
2:02 pm
So RandyT, you’re saying we knew this was coming and the mkt has already adjusted for it.
What’s really scary is that only 5 have responded to this?
Report this comment
Martin
June 1st, 2009
2:25 pm
It is that it was expected, the worst is presumed to be over, and the government is doing something to soften the effects. GM will apparently still be in business and all of the other companies and people who do business with GM will not be left out in the cold. That is GOOD news. Thus, the market goes up.
Report this comment
bushwacker
June 1st, 2009
3:09 pm
Good news for now, but my money says GM will not survive without a new and future work force that starts out at about $10 an hour and tops out at about around $30 an hour, no more $80,000 a year for working on an assembly line and pensions of at least half of what they are now and retirees going on medicare and having INS for part B like everyone else.
Report this comment
Bill Moy
June 1st, 2009
4:51 pm
GM, Delphi and DHL have put 30,000 people out of work in Dayton metro. People desperate to work at NCR. So Bill Nuti, in his ultimate wisdom, decides to move the city’s iconic company to Atlanta? What on earth for? The traffic? The high cost of housing? The shortage of water? The incredible pollen counts? The hour long commute to the airport? Somebody is getting paid off big time. Bill Nuti is ripping the heart out Dayton and squishing it between his toes. Kharma dude. Watch your kharma. Sorry Atlanta, I don’t feel your joy
Report this comment
suzn
June 1st, 2009
8:43 pm
If a Web log is a blog, is a Web link a blink?
Report this comment
NORRIS
June 1st, 2009
9:31 pm
They wont be providing jobs. The jobs are being filled now. I have a friend who was promoted and will be teaching there at the new office on peachtree street. so, if anything they are bringing more people to the already congested area. NO NEW JOBS. sorry……….
Report this comment
David
June 1st, 2009
9:37 pm
New office on Peachtree? The headquarters is supposedly in Duluth…
Report this comment
NCR
June 1st, 2009
9:40 pm
Peachtree City is not Atlanta and is not on Peachtree Street. Peachtree City is surrounded by affordable housing and is about 15 minutes from the airport, not an hour, and the area has enough going on where you don’t have to go to Atlanta. Peachtree City living is as laid back as it comes, you can get from point A to point B on a golf cart. Get your facts straight since you obviously don’t know what your talking about.
Report this comment
RGB
June 1st, 2009
9:41 pm
Let’s see…if a company is headquartered in Dayton and it brings those jobs to Atlanta (and doesn’t create a single new job at the company), then there will be new jobs in the metro area even if no current residents are hired. These people will buy homes, restaurant meals, automobiles, gasoline, pay taxes, etc. At the margin, moving 1,300 jobs to Atlanta will cause some others to be created among other area companies.
But I’m not a statist so you libs keep thinking this is a bad thing.
Report this comment
NCR
June 1st, 2009
9:42 pm
There are two locations in GA, one in Duluth, one in PTC. The PTC is where the new Center of Excellence is being constructed which will provide quality training for employees. Facility has been under construction for all of 2009.
Report this comment
Mike D
June 1st, 2009
9:52 pm
It would be great for Atlanta, but Ohio just keeps getting more and more hammered with bad news.
Report this comment
vuduchld
June 1st, 2009
9:58 pm
Why is the world would any company move to a state where it’s leaders are pushing for succession!? Do yourselves a favor folks, stay in Ohio!!!
Report this comment
Keith
June 1st, 2009
11:41 pm
I hope you know that if NCR moves, you will be helping to put a lot of people in Ohio out of work. So thanks from us here in Dayton. I hope you can still sleep at night.
Report this comment
J
June 2nd, 2009
12:42 am
I was there in Duluth when NCR was kind enough to sell the building, lease back half of it and actually had the contractors cut our cubicle desks in half. I was also there when my team was me and a dozen people offshore and I was given new and near impossible tasks each day. In spite of all of that and months of excessive overtime to attempt those unrealistic deadlines, I was given a raise that was less than half inflation.
I greatly enjoyed my time with the wonderful people I worked with there and the opportunity they gave me to work w/ massive Fortune100 companies but the cost cutting to the bone and ridiculously bad raises didn’t leave me much option. I left for a position that paid me over 50% more and never looked back.
You may think this is some great boon for GA but NCR likely had far more than 2,000 jobs coming in Georgia just 10-15 years ago before they dumped all their manufacturing on Solectron. When I got there half the cubicles were empty and so much of the company’s talent had already walked out the door. AT&T’s disastrous acquisition and subsequent spin-off nearly destroyed the company from nearly 60,000 employees to under 30,000 by 2000. It’s now 20,000 and revenues are still below what they were in 1990. The company is posed to fall off the Fortune 500 despite being there since its inception in 1955.
The company is storied but its greatest stories are of its failures, missteps, and its near misses with greatness. The single greatest claim to fame is they fired the guy that created IBM. It may be some jobs for Duluth but I am also saddened for the people in Dayton b/c NCR has 100+ years in Dayton only to be dumped for some ridiculous tax credits that Purdue gave them. I can just see Nuti telling facilities to dig up the sawed off cubicle sections to fill up the walled off section of the building.
Report this comment
Glad to see Tech coming to the ATL
June 2nd, 2009
1:08 am
Sonny, get off your a$$ and do what ever you have to do to bring more tech to the area. See Dallas for an example. I don’t know what Dallas does, but you can’t swing a cat without hitting a high paying tech company.
Report this comment
Bone
June 2nd, 2009
7:58 am
To the Bill’s, Norris’, vuduchld’s, Keith’s and J’s of the world (in Ohio), only look at yourselves for this NCR move. You and your representatives have make Ohio the 4th highest taxed state in the union. No wonder companies want to move. The place is dark and a mess already…then you tax people and companies to death.
Business is business, and apparently you all (ya’ll in our language) don’t get it. So keep taxing yourselves for a better job, believe the politicans about how this will make things better, and don’t move South. Most of you that moved already has made the mess we have today. Have fun up there!!
Report this comment
Bunker
June 2nd, 2009
8:10 am
Henry Unger,
I read your blog everyday and I live in PA. Keep up the good work!
Bunker
Report this comment
Glenn
June 2nd, 2009
8:49 am
I understand the pain and anger of the people in Ohio as we have all felt the same in Georgia as our HQ’s have moved to other areas of the Country recently. Let’s cut them some slack and be appreciative that a Fortune 500 Company sees fit to move to our area and wish the fine friends in Dayton the very best.
Regarding how we convinced NCR to move their HQ and additional facilities to GA, all I would suggest is that our tax dollars are being spent on other things already; why not use some of them to help encourage NCR to relocate here, hire our citizens, pay taxes, etc, so it can generate revenues for the State and eventually pay us back rather than continue to just have money be paid out with nothing in return?
Report this comment
Breathe
June 2nd, 2009
9:02 am
About the theory of no new net jobs being created… I doubt ALL 1,300 employees will move to Metro Atlanta. There will be openings.
Report this comment
Bubba
June 2nd, 2009
9:08 am
Also, 800 or so jobs coming to Columbus where NCR will open a new manufacturing facility. Good news for Georgia thanks to its pro-business leaders.
Report this comment
ESA
June 2nd, 2009
9:25 am
Ohio should wake up and smell the unfriendly business climate. The reason companies continue to move South is because we have lower taxes and aren’t unionized.
While this is positive for the Atlanta area, there is actually a downside. Georgia’s “leadership” will see this relocation as validation of their bone-headed lack of planning. The long term result will be that Atlanta falls farther behind Texas cities which are building roads, public transportation, and planned for water decades ago.
Report this comment
J
June 2nd, 2009
9:34 am
Bone,
I am in Atlanta…I worked for NCR in Duluth a few years back. If Dayton offered NCR millions to stay, how much did GA offer? There is no free lunch here…GA must have offered enough tax savings to push this through the board of directors as well as perceived future cost savings for NCR to have pursued anything like this. If Dayton was dropping 10 figures, that means GA offered that and more. NCR even owns the country club in Dayton (See NCR Country Club) so it obviously took a lot for the company to move. The Satellite Blvd facility used to be manufacturing and offices before it was converted to nearly 200,000 sqft of offices by consolidating several offices and layoffs. When I was there the cubicles were 7′x10′ and half were empty from the rounds of layoffs. The company as a cost saving move sold the building, leased back half, and proceeded to cut our cubes in half to 7′x5′ which made them taller than they were wide and pretty much a phone booth. The company obviously doesn’t have tremendous foresight b/c they owned the real estate on their planned Duluth HQ until 2006 and to have to come back, knock down all the walls they built to lease back the rest of the building 3 yrs later shows a very short planning horizon.
NCR likely had 4-5,000 jobs in the Atlanta metro in the 90’s. It long ago offshored those jobs and yes they are bringing some jobs to GA but I honestly doubt they are making as much of an impact as Purdue or whoever negotiated the tax breaks for them to show up. The avg salary is $70k…that’s terrible for a tech company given you have senior execs making a few million a year counting toward that salary. GT grads make more than that by their 3rd or 4th year out usually. I realize that Georgia is happy to get any jobs it can but I’d much rather see them pulling companies like Google, Microsoft, et al rather than a relatively has been company whose hometown history is so closely intertwined with it. NCR has sold off both its high tech/growth Teradata product, low tech paper products, tech manufacturing, and all that’s left is a software product company that still thinks its in the business of moving boxes(ATM’s, POS, Kiosks) by giving its software away.
GA isn’t gaining a high tech future here. The money could have been far better spent trying to get a true tech company to build an R&D center in Atlanta near GT. NCR isn’t a growth company and getting 1,300 jobs means they probably shed another 1,000 in the process.
Report this comment
Terri
June 2nd, 2009
9:46 am
What a joke, NCR is on the way out. Dayton citzen’s built that company and to think that NCR will be good to Georgia think again. Dayton has to get rid of Mayor Franklin friend McLin who’s been inviting her to Dayton to speak all the time while all along she was here courting business’s to move to Georgia. It makes me sick that no company in this country has any loyalty to the community that made them who they are. If it’s all about the profits then God help us all.
Report this comment
JW
June 2nd, 2009
10:16 am
Why would any company want to move to the Atlanta area? They most relish high crime, Mexican drug cartels, choking air pollution, unbearable traffic, ignorant politicians, drought, miserable summer heat and a hearty supply of Georgia rednecks.
Report this comment
RGB
June 2nd, 2009
10:40 am
Keith,
We are sleeping well, thank you.
Ohio is a high tax state and has been losing jobs for years. Haven’t you noticed?
Companies have to relocate where they can survive–whether Atlanta or overseas. If you’d like to prevent other such companies from leaving Ohio, then make your business climate more friendly. Tell Ted you want fewer services and lower taxes. Plus, Ohio is a forced unionism state while Georgia is a right-to-work state. That also says something about the business climate.
In short, at least in this instance, Ohio was not competitive with Georgia. You can get mad or you can get better.
It’s your choice.
Report this comment
Bone
June 2nd, 2009
10:53 am
J,
Welcome to 2009, and stop living in the past. If you own your business, and times are what they are today, you know that you can’t run things like it was in the 90’s. Things change…business structures change. In this new market, you have to make changes. I doubt that the decision was done in a matter of days or even weeks. Many changes, along with money that needs to be borrowed to make this move, were observed and compared.
Report this comment
Facing up to own mistakes
June 2nd, 2009
11:22 am
No one is forcing people to stay in Ohio! People have been known to move where the jobs are. In the stone ages, people moved where the animals migrated. If the people did not move where it would bring them food and they go through hard times, it is a matter of choice to me.
Report this comment
Karl Childers
June 2nd, 2009
11:30 am
Do they make dem french fried potaters or biscuits with mustard?
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…….
Report this comment
J
June 2nd, 2009
11:33 am
60M? That’s a ridiculous sum of money for a company to bring its HQ. I’ll say it again, NCR isn’t a great company anymore. They’ve shrunk every year these last 2 decades and that jobs # will shrink faster than the cost to the taxpayers who pick up their burden. Paying that kind of money to have them lay off another few thousand after the tax break runs out is kind of pointless don’t you think?
Purdue might as well just spent that money adding more lanes to I-85.
Report this comment
K-Dogg
June 2nd, 2009
11:33 am
The State of Georgia definitely made the right call. Sometimes you have to spend money to make money! Adding another Fortune 500 company to the Atlanta economy will more than pay back for the cost of incentives. Think about it this way. Now that Georgia has landed NCR, many other companies that do business with NCR will consider moving operations to the area. The financial ramifications are huge! This is a BIG WIN for the state of Georgia, and totally worth the initialcost.
Report this comment
ATLborn
June 2nd, 2009
11:35 am
Without question it’s GA. Not only will we have the direct impact of the jobs NCR will bring and the added prestige of being home to another Fortune 500 company, but we will also receive the secondary and/or indirect benefits of having a major player like NCR HQ’d here. From the amount of money their employees will spend in the local economy to the partner businesses that will increase their presence here to do business with them to the amount of money the company will spend with local companies (i.e. law firms, infrastructure related costs)
This was big win for GA.
Report this comment
C T
June 2nd, 2009
11:40 am
All I hear is that the state has and needs to cut spending. Perdue is not willing to cut property taxes for the Georgia homeowners, but he instead is spending 60M in taxpayers money to lure NCR to Georgia.
WOW! what is wrong with this? Again, tax breaks for corporate america and not the average american.
Report this comment
Mike D
June 2nd, 2009
11:41 am
I say lets kick Ohio while its down and go after all of it companies.
Report this comment
db
June 2nd, 2009
11:47 am
The whole world is upside down.
Report this comment
Adam
June 2nd, 2009
11:47 am
That is about 28,000$ per job. It will take a few years to recoup in taxes, but this is still a win for metro Atlanta (and all of us who work in the technical field).
Report this comment
Tyson
June 2nd, 2009
11:52 am
I agree with ATLborn…. .this is a BIG,BIG WIN FOR THE STATE OF GEORGIA AND DULUTH! Ohio’s Gov. screwed up royally! He should have never let NCR get out of the state….
Report this comment
RealDawg
June 2nd, 2009
11:54 am
It is unlikely the State is actually spending much of anything. Most of the money is going to be property and other taxes waived for the future. Like it or not, this is how it works today.
Looks like the cat got out of the bag a little soon with AJC printing stories with few details.
Report this comment
SirReal
June 2nd, 2009
11:55 am
CT I agree! You cant give the masses a break but you can shell out 60 million dollars of OUR $ to these people. I wonder how much of that the CEO got and what perks Sonny’s gonna get for this. The state of this country is deplorable…
Report this comment
AJ
June 2nd, 2009
11:55 am
I HATE HATE HATE Sonny Purdue. I think he’s 75% of the time incompetent and he lets religion cloud his judgment when it comes to running this state. That being said (and I did enjoy typing that), this is HUGE HUGE HUGE for GA. Those of you that disagree need to learn a little something about business.
Report this comment
JAMES W.
June 2nd, 2009
11:58 am
Georgia definitely made the right call. The benefits of another HQ for Georgia far out weigh the $60 million paid because of the jobs and the revenue it will bring to Georgia. Other companies as a result might consider locating in Georgia too as a result of NCR locating here.
Report this comment
JOHNSON
June 2nd, 2009
11:59 am
I live in Dayton. In the last 6 Months, We have had a huge GM plant shut down, over 2,000 laid off. Iams has moved a few miles south into Cincinnati, DHL has laid off several thousand and now NCR is gone. The only big employers left are WPAFB and Universities. NCR was founded in Dayton, and developed into a large national company b/c of Daytonians. They have now screwed Dayton, never giving Ohio an opportunity to bid. Ohio did not make a bid until after NCR decided to move. Things are bad in Dayton, and only getting worse. I am now seriously considering into moving out of Dayton. Cincy and Columbus are nearby and doing much better. Dayton will soon be a ghost town.
Report this comment
DHW
June 2nd, 2009
12:01 pm
Perdue is the worst, but this is huge. Probably had nothing to do with him. Now stop cutting education funding, moron.
Report this comment
Victoria
June 2nd, 2009
12:06 pm
So, we just spent 60 million bucks to move NCR to Atlanta and all of THEIR employees? You people are idiots if you think this is going to help Atlanta.
Report this comment
Kevin
June 2nd, 2009
12:07 pm
I’m in the camp of the fellow posters who say, “Hate Purdue, love this win.”
This is a tremendous win for the metro area and the state.
A few of the posts here are a sad reminder of the “woe is me” group who are never happy with anything. We still have one of the lowest net effect tax rates in the country. You losers have no concept of the idea of “investment”– ie. spending money to make money. It’s always “us versus them” with you guys. It’s sad, really.
Report this comment
Chris
June 2nd, 2009
12:07 pm
I agree with Real Dawg, the state isn’t actually going to spend that much money, but most of that $60M will be in tax breaks. It’s a huge sum to give up in the short-term but in the long run it will be better.
Report this comment
Soon to be Dr.
June 2nd, 2009
12:08 pm
NCR formerly National Cash Registry is a leader in cash registers and ATM and recently Network management. I used to work at NCR and I think bringing business is always good. I feel this company still has a good ole boy network so they will fit right into Ga
Report this comment
Justice for all
June 2nd, 2009
12:09 pm
It really depends. Will the Company bring their employees with them. If thats the case then it does nothing for the state of Georgia. If the company hires Georgia workers, will they pay a livable wage? I believe that Georgia has a lot to offer Corporations but we should not be paying companies to relocate when they plan to bring most of their employees with them. Thats just money out of our budget for nothing.
Report this comment
TDD
June 2nd, 2009
12:10 pm
I also live in Dayton. I have watched Mead, GM, Iams and now NCR pack up and leave. I cannot list the many businesses that were taken out in the process. Who knows what’s going to happen next.
Blame it on the economy. Blame it on the leadership (trust me Dayton’s mayor is no gem). We have a lot of work to do.
Report this comment
susan
June 2nd, 2009
12:12 pm
there aren’t any companies left in ohio except honda, especially Dayton. Mayor McClin has chased off
all the corporations. I think we have a higher crime rate than Atlanta. Gov Strickland isn’t much better, but that’s Democrats for ya. According to the Dayton news stations, which just broke the story TODAY NCR has been ignoring the politicians efforts to keep them here. Oh well, maybe we’ll finally get those 2 clowns voted out next election.
Report this comment
timthebrave
June 2nd, 2009
12:13 pm
Even if they bring their employees here they will have to pay state taxes, purchase things in GA, etc. This will help the economy in the long run. Also they will end up hiring some Georgians
Report this comment
Victoria
June 2nd, 2009
12:14 pm
Justice for all…my sentiments exactly. They will bring the majority of their employees because, let’s face it, people will move to keep their job in this economy.
Report this comment
Diana
June 2nd, 2009
12:18 pm
Nardelli should be the one getting cut…he screwed Home Depot up and he has done nothing for Chrysler…
Report this comment
Gary
June 2nd, 2009
12:20 pm
They might bring some employees with them (this is the headquarters after all) but for the most part the employees will come from the state. NCR already has a presence in Duluth and have for years. Some employees will get relocation assistance while others will be left out and be replaced locally. Yes this is a win for Georgia.
Report this comment
So What
June 2nd, 2009
12:21 pm
Its only a good deal if they hire Georgia workers. Otherwise its not a good deal for Georgia or our people.
Report this comment
Justice for all
June 2nd, 2009
12:25 pm
Victoria – Thats what I am thinking. They all get pinks and the first thing these employees ask is can they keep their jobs if they pay to move? Well how many of these employees do you think will move? Almost all of them. Ohio has been a bad state for years (I know, I left 25 years ago) and its not hard to leave there and not look back. Most of these employees will follow their jobs at their own expense and that does little to employe the people of Georgia. Thats what I am afraid of.
Report this comment
Frank
June 2nd, 2009
12:31 pm
Congratulations, Atlanta! Your gain is definitely our loss. Hopefully, Dayton will use this as a wake-up call, albeit 10-15 years too late.
Report this comment
sparta_bubba
June 2nd, 2009
12:32 pm
So if all of you hate Sonny, why did you vote him into office? Was it that confederate flag he was vaving and his newly minted Republican label? That seems to work well in Georgia politics.
Report this comment
Bryan
June 2nd, 2009
12:37 pm
NCR 2008 Net Income: $228 million
GA Corp Tax Rate: 6%
Estimated Tax Revenue: $13.68 million
Years to recover investment: 4.39
Years to recover investment when you the income and sales taxes paid by the 2,120 people who get a job in Georgia: probably less than 2 because this will be their corp headquarters and the people working there will have a high average salary. Oh yeah, lets not forget about the home sales this will generate.
Ok, I will give you NCR probably won’t have as good of year in 2009, but this is a steal for Georgia. The people gripping about the $60 million investment are probably the same ones complaining about the lack of jobs.
Report this comment
Art
June 2nd, 2009
12:39 pm
$60 million for what? HQ for a failing company??? NCR was failing back when AT&T bought it in the 80s. Former AT&T CEO Allen got skewered for buying that POS company. Now Atlanta has lured it with taxpayer dollars that would have been better spent on DOT projects or education or even TAX CUTS. This is a crying shame. Perdue should be impeached.
Report this comment
Chris
June 2nd, 2009
12:40 pm
Purdue doesn’t care… I can’t wait until his term if over. He gave away a 7.5 billion contract to IBM which in turn laid off US workers so they could hire workers in India. Now..he wants praise for this.. forget it. He was just screwing people out of their retirement. thanks gov
Report this comment
Daniel
June 2nd, 2009
12:45 pm
Ever heard of the winner’s curse?
Report this comment
Get Real
June 2nd, 2009
12:47 pm
So thats where the homeowner’s tax credit went. The company coming here is a good thing, but I believe doubling what Ohio was offering is a bit much. $60M compared to $31.1 seems like OPM was just thrown at the company to get them here. I hope the hiring of Georgians was included in the agreement. NCR is the real winner, not the states.
Report this comment
John F
June 2nd, 2009
12:47 pm
Well considering that NCR and Georgia did not bargain in good faith, you can say that “Georgia” made the right call. NCR would not even discuss relocation with the state of Ohio until yesterday. Wonder how long Sunny had discussions on-going? NCR won’t comment on how long they were negotiating with the state of Georgia. Maybe do some journalism (I know how all you southerners are challenged in english, spelling, morals, etc.)and find out?
Report this comment
James
June 2nd, 2009
12:49 pm
NCR made the right call, because NCR has been planning this move for at least a decade now. Ohio couldn’t have kept NCR if they would have tripled their offer. And Georgia is just doing what it does well… …dangling huge perks to corporations in dying cities like Dayton, Cleveland, Detroit, etc.
People in Dayton all have Southern accents by the way. Most of them are within 1-3 generations of the south to begin with as a result of their ancestors moving north for factory jobs.
Report this comment
DannyX
June 2nd, 2009
12:50 pm
Lol. Any tax benefit Georgia receives from this will go straight to south Georgia.
Report this comment
Todd
June 2nd, 2009
12:51 pm
C T, you obviously just don’t get it. Breaks to businesses to lure them or keep them here pay off way more than the tax breaks themselves. You have thousands of people moving here, spending their money here, paying taxes here. GA won’t actually pay out much of anything, they will pay in the form of tax incentives. Narrow minded people like yourself think corporations are evil. Without them, no one has a job. Tax breaks for corporate America allow them to sell their products cheaper and help them to employ more people, which in turn benefits everyone. So if you don’t think there’s a benefit from a fortune 500 company locating in GA, you need to go back to school (if you ever went) and take a few economics classes.
Report this comment
Steve
June 2nd, 2009
12:53 pm
Bryan – I think your assumption that all NCR’s income will be taxable in Georgia is incorrect. I’m not a tax attorney or an accountant, but I’m pretty sure the income is taxed according to where the revenue is recognized, meaning all over the country and the world.
Can we get a corporate tax expert to weigh in here?
Report this comment
Bill
June 2nd, 2009
12:54 pm
How many employees move? Try selling their current house – with all the other companies leaving Dayton, no one is buying.
This is a great move – NCR has a prescense in GA already, and this solifies that (would have hated to be Dayton and watch them move – Sonny would have been blamed for that)
Let’s compare to Obama and GM – he gives 20 billion in loans 3 months ago to a company that is now bankrupt and now gives 50 billion more to a “new GM” that has yet to make a car AND puts a 31 year old guy in charge. All for 50,000 jobs. So Obama give Seventy Thousand Million for 50,000 jobs and a bankrupt company, and Sonny gives 60 million in tax credits to gain 2000 jobs. You do the math
Report this comment
Ex-Daytonian
June 2nd, 2009
12:56 pm
When I lived in Dayton, NCR was THE big time corporation, mainly because they were very well managed and were large contributors to local charities and events. I worked for them one summer during college at their worldwide training center, where they had employees coming in for training from all over the world. They are a true global corporation and are definitely a good catch for metro Atlanta, even at the cost of $60M.
Report this comment
Bryan
June 2nd, 2009
1:01 pm
Steve – You are correct, its earned where it is recognized. I also didnt point out Tax Income is different than Book or GAAP Income. But regardless, this is good for the state. The $60 million investment is nothing compared to the benefits. Thats what Im trying to point out.
Report this comment
J
June 2nd, 2009
1:01 pm
Bone,
I was a teen in 2000. I’m talking about NCR today. I worked there in ‘05-’06 at the Duluth office and worked on one of their largest clients. I learned a lot and really enjoyed my coworkers and the sense of community that apparently they worked so hard at tearing apart. At the same time, they were a tech company that didn’t believe in tech. They threw all their resources at selling physical boxes rather than the value the software provided. Look at IBM, Oracle, Microsoft…do any of them give the software away for free to make money selling the box and a service contract? The people there had a hardened bitterness to a company that had changed direction so many times and laid off so many. It’s a shell of the company it once was and bringing it to ATL for 60M is a bit ridiculous. NCR has a long history of shortsighted decisions and this one is something that Purdue just handed them a jackpot.
I don’t own my own company…I’m happily employed at another company that pays me over 50% more than NCR did. I’m just being realistic in saying that Purdue obviously is a terrible negotiator b/c they gave away the farm just for NCR to bring a few jobs to the state. Instead of putting that 60M toward turning ATL into a true tech destination, he bought up an old, outdated company that’s beyond its glory days. What’s next? Bring the bankrupted remnants of GM down? The Westin already looks just like their HQ I guess.
Report this comment
DannyX
June 2nd, 2009
1:05 pm
The homeowners tax credit did not only go to this. The bulk of the tax credit went to the billions in corporate tax breaks handed out the past 6 years. Most people have cared little as our lawmakers have shifted the tax burden to the property owner.
Look at Gwinnett County for instance, the new home of NCR. County officials tried to raise taxes in large part because of the lack of the state homestead exemption. The county officials are taking the heat for this although it’s the state Republican leaders like Balfour who are responsible.
Btw, did any of those speaking at anti- tax rally mention anything about the 31 million dollar tax subsidy waste given to Gwinnett schools. You know the subsidy that is meant for poor school districts. Why didn’t Sen Balfour fight to end this handout? The republicans all know about the loophole and did nothing. Hypocrites.
Welcome all you NCR employees getting ready to move here! You’re going to be mad as heck when you realize the traffic infested mess you’re about to move to. You’ll love the fact that your tax dollars are being diverted to south Georgia!
Report this comment
Noah
June 2nd, 2009
1:08 pm
All I hear is that the state has and needs to cut spending. Perdue is not willing to cut property taxes for the Georgia homeowners, but he instead is spending 60M in taxpayers money to lure NCR to Georgia
I don’t think Ga is payin cash to them, probably tax incentives for taxes that would have never been paid if the company stayed in Ohio.
Report this comment
J
June 2nd, 2009
1:22 pm
Bill,
Obama’s trying to save existing jobs…NCR coming to ATL aren’t new jobs. Anyone who doesn’t come loses their job in Dayton. It’s a significant difference given we basically handed them the cash to ditch town when they likely would have come for less. The net new jobs from Dayton is probably less than the number of people NCR has laid off in Duluth in the past decade.
It wouldn’t surprise me if this is the single biggest thing helping NCR’s balance sheet this year. They’re shrinking year over year and spun off their only growth division 2 yrs ago.
Report this comment
baptistpreecher
June 2nd, 2009
1:28 pm
Purdue has major gall on this one. Furthermore, wait till they get a taste of Atlanta’s traffic. Nobody wants to relocate their company here because of it so we pay them $60M to move here…LOL
Report this comment
Noah
June 2nd, 2009
1:32 pm
Purdue has major gall on this one. Furthermore, wait till they get a taste of Atlanta’s traffic. Nobody wants to relocate their company here because of it so we pay them $60M to move here…LOL
Atlanta does not have the worse traffic in the nation and many, many towns offer incentives for companies to relocate. Why aren’t companies leaving Atlanta then if its so terrible. Chicago paid big to get Boeing to move their headquarters and 1800 jobs. Seems like a win win for Atlanta metro if you ask me.
Report this comment
J
June 2nd, 2009
1:37 pm
I’m not fundamentally against using economic incentives to move high tech/high paying jobs here but this isn’t the case w/ NCR. Essentially, they’re moving some HR, admin, and finance over but most of the tech has shifted to overseas sites and what tech is in the US was already in Duluth. Purdue essentially paid them $60M to bring over some jobs that will likely be dumped in a few years as the company continues to shrink. When was the last innovative product you saw from NCR?
The avg salary is $70k which isn’t bad but tech companies generally pay a lot more. A GT grad starting salary is over $60k…how long until they outrun NCR? Ask how many more GT grads will now stay in state to work for them and you’ll realize we paid a very heavy price for minimal long term benefits. The money could have been better used funding some startups or investing in tech incubators.
Report this comment
BobDog
June 2nd, 2009
1:42 pm
I can’t stand Perdue, either. With that said, getting NCR is huge.
NCR coming in will also have a positive effect on the housing market here. There will be a mixture of transfers and new local hires. All of the allied of businesses that come here to support NCR and the service and construction industries it will take to support their employees will have a huge, positive impact on our economy. It’s a good day.
Maybe one of them will buy my house!
Report this comment
BobDog
June 2nd, 2009
1:43 pm
J, you raised another positive point if it means Georgia Tech people leaving.
Report this comment
Terri
June 2nd, 2009
1:45 pm
I knew Mayor Franklin wasn’t coming to Dayton to speak to the community. Mayor McLin has been drunk for years and now NCR leaves a city that made it who it is. Where is the loyalty from any company these days. Help us if all we care about is profits.
Report this comment
Bring Me the Head of Deforest Kelley
June 2nd, 2009
1:45 pm
Every time Georgia pays off a company to move here, it is both an immediate success and a long term failure. Georgia is benefiting now, only becuase we’re outbidding other states in giveaways. This means for the next deal to succeed we’ll have to spend more than $60M, and the next one more than that. Its a future that only spirals out of control.
Instead of spending all this money to “steal” jobs from other states, Georgia would get just as much immediate impact – and a lot more long term impact – in creating new jobs from scratch. Business incubators are one approach. Why not spend more money on these?
Report this comment
Noah
June 2nd, 2009
1:48 pm
A GT grad starting salary is over $60k
Not many undergrads are starting out anywhere near $60k in any field, perhaps you are referring to grad school students.
When was the last innovative product you saw from NCR?
I believe they operate in some growth industries, grocery stores and the like are going to more automation.
Essentially, they’re moving some HR, admin, and finance over
Whats wrong with that. If these people relocate they will be buying houses, shopping etc.
Purdue essentially paid them $60M
cash? tax credits is much different then being paid cash.
Report this comment
Ken
June 2nd, 2009
2:05 pm
I live in Maryland so I’m watching this from a nutral site. It seems to me that you fine folks in Georgia may have started something and who knows where it will lead. Do you for one second think that other states aren’t paying attention? Do you think that Ohio, Michigan, Penn and others will just stand aside and do nothing? My guess is that they won’t. So what fine, Georgia based companies will ignore attractive, tax free offers to move? Coke, Simmons, Delta … you might have more to lose than Ohio. So what offers will Georgia need to do to make to Coke and others stay happy? Seems like the Georgia tax base just got a wee bit smaller. Of course services and infrastructure will still neeed to be provided. So someone will have to pick up the bill. Hmm I wonder who that will be? But hey, we at least Georgia gave it to the Unions. But then who is going to look out for for the new, lower paid workers? Not to worry I’m sure NCR executive management has that one all figured out. And it they don’t they can always move in 10 years or so to another state willing to make a sweeter deal.
Report this comment
J
June 2nd, 2009
2:08 pm
http://www.adors.gatech.edu/assessment/adors/commencement/salary_report_result.cfm?college=TOTAL&level=1&surveyid=30&Submit=Submit
BS in CS = $60,500 median
BS in CE = $62,000 median
MS in CS = $81,000
MS in EE/CE = $78,000
This isn’t counting the signing bonus either…
I didn’t say there was anything wrong w/ bringing the jobs but we paid a very heavy cost w/o a huge return. NCR isn’t going to open a research campus and build the next supercomputer or paradigm in computing.
They play w/ commodities and service contracts fighting against Fortune500 retailers which is a losing battle. I haven’t seen anything new beyond an NCR scanner in a Walmart since ‘06. IBM undercut NCR on the hardware for new Walmart self checkouts and NCR is stuck supporting the software w/o the hardware sales to make up for it.
Purdue dropped a ton of future tax revenue for a few jobs in a non-growth company. NCR’s dropped its headcount by over 60% in the last 20 years and moved what R&D it has overseas. In ‘05 NCR hired me and 3 other GT grads out of a total of 5 new hires in Duluth. All of us left by ‘07 b/c of stagnant wages that were quickly falling below what new grads made. It will likely take well over a decade to make up the tax break w/ state income taxes from the jobs coming into town. I’m also not counting the other jobs they created at their call center b/c those jobs were coming anyway regardless of the HQ move.
Report this comment
Noah
June 2nd, 2009
2:09 pm
It seems to me that you fine folks in Georgia may have started something and who knows where it will lead.
This has been going on for years and years. It is not something new that incentives would be provided to lure a company to relocate.
Report this comment
Business Realist
June 2nd, 2009
2:13 pm
I suspect that there will be a lot of Atlantans hired. Companies like this are moving because a new CEO wants to change the culture, bring in younger, more innovative and flexible workers–and Atlanta is a great city for attracting young high-tech workers. They’ll probably offer buyouts to a bunch of existing workers and leave them in Ohio, because they really don’t want them coming. Same happened a few years ago when Merial moved from NJ to Atlanta–CEO was looking to create a new culture and leave the clock punchers behind.
Report this comment
Ken
June 2nd, 2009
2:13 pm
Noah, I read in your paper “Most of the incentives, $56.9 million, according to the Georgia Department of Economic Development, will come via the so-called Mega Tax Credit legislation intended to entice big companies to move here. Gov. Sonny Perdue signed the bill May 5.
NCR is the first company to benefit from the legislation, said economic development spokeswoman Alison Tyrer. In fact, on Feb. 18, the day the bill (HB 438) was introduced in the Georgia House, Gov. Sonny Perdue called NCR CEO Bill Nuti. Perdue again lobbied Nuti on Feb. 27.”
Seems NCR is the first to use this tax break program. That is what I was referring to when I wrote that you may have started something….
Report this comment
Noah
June 2nd, 2009
2:15 pm
didn’t say there was anything wrong w/ bringing the jobs but we paid a very heavy cost w/o a huge return
What was the cost. If they didnt come here we wouldnt have any more money then if they do.
Most of the incentives, $56.9 million, according to the Georgia Department of Economic Development, will come via the so-called Mega Tax Credit legislation intended to entice big companies to move here. Gov. Sonny Perdue signed the bill May 5.
To avail themselves of the tax breaks, companies must create at least 1,800 new jobs. They must also invest $450 million or create an annual payroll of $150 million or more.
NCR’s payroll will top $150 million, the company says, and roughly 2,000 new jobs will be created. Its investment is pegged at $30 million.
Report this comment
J
June 2nd, 2009
2:28 pm
We essentially gave them a free pass on taxes which means that once it runs out they’re likely to jump to the next town that’s willing to cut them a bigger break. There’s nothing anchoring them here compared to how established they were in Dayton. They put 110 yrs and built the city…we handed them 60M in breaks to fill out the other half of a building they used to own.
We’re essentially going for a race to zero b/c now we’ve created a disincentive for large existing companies to stay when other states create similar programs. Home Depot threatened to go to FL and if they left, we’d lose a lot more money than NCR ever brought.
NCR isn’t really bringing jobs that will help the long term development of the state. The R&D jobs were already here and we just handed them a huge tax break to bring a few more. Are you sure the company’s right sized enough already? Do they lose the break if they lay off 300-400 people after they get here? What’s keeping them from parlaying this into 80M to stay in Ohio before they finish knocking down the wall on the other half of the building?
We’re essentially going down a dangerous gambit of stealing dev from other states rather than fostering it on our own. As Michigan and Ohio get more desperate as the rust belt crumbles, it’s likely they’ll sacrifice all taxes just to steal away any businesses we have and its unlikely we can match their desperation.
Report this comment
Kevin
June 2nd, 2009
2:36 pm
Here’s an interesting link for a story about Ohio’s sour-grapes response.
http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/stories/2009/06/01/daily20.html
The most interesting line? “He (Lt. Gov. Lee Fisher) also suggested Georgia is using funds from the federal stimulus bill to poach NCR from Ohio.”
Hmmmm.
Report this comment
KEN
June 2nd, 2009
2:41 pm
Not sure this was the right move for Georgia. Tracking Fortune 500 since its original publication (1955), NCR has dropped from #116 to #446 as of 2009. Since 2006, NCR went from #357 to #446 as of 2009, dropping 54 spots in the most recent year alone. Some of the ranking decline is not only attributed to other emerging industries but also global competition. A similar decline in 2010 and NCR is no longer a Fortune 500 company. Would be interesting to hear the Governor’s rationale for bidding almost twice as much as Ohio to lure them here. I am sure some of the incentives reflect relocation costs that Ohio did not have to offer.
Report this comment
Clay
June 2nd, 2009
2:44 pm
We aren’t moving people to GA–Georgians will be getting jobs. Also, Franklin had nothing to do with it–the office is in Duluth. Finally, over 800 jobs will be created in Columbus because of this. This NCR deal is bringing good things to different parts of the state. This is a huge win for the state of Georgia!
Report this comment
KEN
June 2nd, 2009
2:53 pm
The Governor’s going to have to spend a lot of money to catch the big three states for Fortune 500. Georgia has 29 Fortune 500 companies and the leader, Texas, has 118. Even on a per capita basis, Texas has a higher percentage of large companies.
What’s also interesting is that much discussion has occurred about businesses moving to where there is an educated workforce from which to draw. But California/NY/Michigan/Minnesota are states with schools, especially universities that are well respected. However, why do companies not gravitate anymore toward them? Seems that business inducements like Texas Enterprise fund, lower tax rates, cost of living and warm weather mitigate concerns about lacking highly educated workforces. Mobility within the U.S. enables businesses to bring/draw the workers from other regions. So its hast la vista baby to New York, Dayton, and California!
Report this comment
Skeptic
June 2nd, 2009
2:58 pm
These are not new jobs. These jobs were STOLEN from Ohio with your tax dollars used as a bribe. Shame on NCR and shame on you, Georgia. I hope you can still sleep at night while hard-working Ohio people lose their jobs. The ripple effect of this loss will become a tidal wave of destruction. This is truly un-American.
Report this comment
The Truth
June 2nd, 2009
3:08 pm
I generally disapprove of Perdue’s leadership on several fronts but this is an economic win for Georgia and a political win for Perdue who, once again, was able to successfully engineer giving away public tax dollars to private interests alowing both metro Atlanta and central/south Georgia to benefit. What is so frustrating about Perdue is that he has failed to galvanize the resources and political will to implement policies that will bring LONG TERM benefits to Georgia – primary and secondary education, healthcare, transportation, and infrastructure – as well as direct the state to support investment in industries that will provide jobs for future generations of Georgians (biotech, medicine, environment, etc.). I wonder how he explained to the good people at NCR that Georgia doesn’t allow consenting adults over the age of 21 to purchase alcohol on Sunday from their local grocer?
Report this comment
Ken
June 2nd, 2009
3:13 pm
Since I’m not involved I find this situation very interesting. From what I read in the Ohio papers the main point of contention is that NCR did not negotiate in good faith. Actually NCR did not negotiate at all. If the Ohio papers are to beleived NCR refused to return the Governor’s phone calls and the first time the state learned of the deal was the night before the announcement. Very little time to put together a competent offer. They make the point that NCR made the decision to leave months, perhaps over a year ago.
Now NCR says that the incentives were not the only reason for the more. There were other “mitigating” considerations. WOW. This means that Georgia was played big time. Seems to me that the Gorgia tax payer could have offered NCR LESS than what Ohio offered and you still would have received the deal. But then it makes no sense that NCR would not have played Ohio off against Georgia. Why didn’t they? If I’m a shareholder this is a question I would be asking at the next shareholder meeting. What kind of business school did therese guys go to? Very interesting.
Report this comment
J
June 2nd, 2009
3:18 pm
Instead of building a state that fosters businesses from the ground up, educates its population to make a good workforce, and has amenities people want when moving, we’re resorting to bribing companies to relocate which likely will fail in the long run. Sniping companies with fat tax breaks will bring in firms like NCR which has been doing financial games to make up for its eroding market share and aging technology. The company won’t even own its future HQ b/c it sold all of its real estate to make quarterly earnings when the economy was good. It tries to play in the world of hardware manufacturing but it doesn’t own many of its own facilities which were sold to Solectron to try to improve their profit margins which are still a dismal 3%.
How long until someone successfully pitches Home Depot, Coke, or UPS to go to Alabama, Florida, or the Carolinas? Are they just a 100M tax break away from running? We certainly don’t have better traffic, schools, or crime levels. What happens if the CEO of HD comes to Purdue and says he wants zero state taxes for the next 50 years or they leave? The 2,000 new people cost this state money in services and their company will pocket a lot of that cash even after paying to relocate many of them.
Report this comment
Eric
June 2nd, 2009
3:28 pm
States competing against each other by throwing money – or tax abatements – at private companies to secure their investments or business is a race to the bottom.
While they may bring some new jobs to the state they do not bring new jobs to the country. So all that happens is the rich or those who spend the least on education and thusly can afford or provide the largest tax breaks gets more business. Ultimately the other states loseing out figure they have to match the tax breaks. And on and on it goes.
Meanwhile if there was some sort of agreement amongst the states Dayton wouldn’t be losing jobs it probably needs more than traffic choked Duluth. Yes along with the additional traffic and pollution Duluth gets more jobs but GA taxpayers end up getting less than they could have if GA wasn’t in the business of undercutting other states.
Report this comment
G'ma
June 2nd, 2009
3:33 pm
Get Real – Ohio’s offer was made AFTER the deal with Georgia so you can’t say they paid twice as much. And I’m not real sure what Gov. Strickland is doing with our monies, but you can damn well bet he’s not using it to keep business in Ohio!!!
Report this comment
baptistpreecher
June 2nd, 2009
3:34 pm
Wait till they find out they can’t buy alcohol on Sunday…LMAO
Report this comment
John F
June 2nd, 2009
3:53 pm
To Kevin-
It’s not sour grapes when two parties collude into a deal then try to make it appear that all negotiations and offers were “above the table”, as is the case in this matter. Just another example of regional economic warfare. So, go ahead and keep them. Just promise that no more Southerners will be allowed to cross north of the Ohio river and I’ll be happy. If I had my way I would give the south to the russians.
Report this comment
smjGator
June 2nd, 2009
3:53 pm
SEC 60, Big Ten 31. History repeats.
Report this comment
Buckeye
June 2nd, 2009
4:00 pm
Company after company will continue to leave any state that is traditionally Republican and now turning Democratic. Ohio is fast becoming the next Michigan. Furthermore, Unions have virtually destroyed the economies of the Rust Belt as those businesses continue to make their way South. Democrats and Unions are bad for business – let Georgia turn a liberal shade of blue and the South will crumble too.
Report this comment
JP
June 2nd, 2009
4:07 pm
We need another William Tecumseh Sherman to come down and show Georgia how Ohioians do it. He had the right idea in burning Georgia to cinders. Enjoy those jobs from a company that will never produce the revenues you expect.
Report this comment
neverliveinga
June 2nd, 2009
4:07 pm
Isn’t Duluth in MN and Columbus in Ohio??? Stolen jobs, Stolen cities!!
Keep your frick’n torturous summer heat!
Report this comment
Buckeye
June 2nd, 2009
4:12 pm
Ohio has lost alot of businesses under Gov Strickland. Dublin OH, a suburb of Columbus, lost Wendy’s to Atlanta. DHL practically wiped out an entire county when they left Wilmington, OH high & dry. Ohio used to be a powerhouse of manufacturing and businesses. The ONLY city in Ohio that is not loosing population is Columbus, the rest of the state will become like Michigan if they don’t embrace big business.
Report this comment
J
June 2nd, 2009
4:25 pm
Buckeye,
NCR isn’t a union shop and I don’t think many of its remaining manufacturing plants (none of which are in Dayton) are union. The Red/Blueness of the state didn’t cause NCR to leave. Maybe the lack of growth in the city but California is as blue as states go and there are still more jobs there despite the massive unemployment than probably most of the midwest outside of Texas.
ATL made a big cash play and won. An Ohio company desperate to bulk up its bottom line in the face of weak sales was easy given its woes. Beating Florida, Alabama, or the Carolinas in winning actual new growth jobs will be a very different story.
Report this comment
Ken (Maryland)
June 2nd, 2009
4:27 pm
JMUgator, you are not very bright now are you. Seems to me that Georgia got played, big time. Based on what NCR has said, incentives were not the whole story. So Georgia paid TWICE what it had to. That’s quite a bit of $$$ left on the table. (That’s a business term … now keep with me…)
And you consider that a win? I guess it’s true, the education in the south is just not that good.
Report this comment
Carefulwatyawish4
June 2nd, 2009
4:41 pm
This is about the deal. NCR has been shrinking for decades. Ga. has them until they get a better deal from somewhere else. Then they’ll leave thier empty buildings in your back yard. The CEO of NCR is the whinney sports star who always wants more. When you get em, better put on the lock down.
Report this comment
DannyX
June 2nd, 2009
5:01 pm
Thats right smjGator, put it into football terms so the average Georgian can understand it.
Good job.
Report this comment
welp this blows
June 2nd, 2009
5:04 pm
i love georgia. absolutely in love with tybee island. but i live in dayton and i work (not for long) at this POS company. do i mean Point Of Sale or Piece Of Sh*t? you decide. i could care less about the stupid economy at this point – i’m so sick of hearing about it. what i do care about however is that my fellow 1249 co-workers are either losing their jobs or having to uproot their lives as of today. it’s blood boiling reading some of these comments. i have an entirely different view of georgia now. i hope this is all coming from atlanta and not savannah or tybee. completely heartless. so anyway, now we wait to see if we can keep our job at all, whether or not we get a very SMALL relocation package (like enough to rent a flipping uhaul) and we won’t find out until july. (but in the mean time, we should bust our asses to prove our worth) and oh by the way, what about our houses? the housing market in dayton already sucks and now we’re supposed to try and sell our homes when no one is freaking buying??? and then pay to move to a state where the cost of living is higher and we’ll be making no more than we were here? and if we don’t get offered a package, we have to compete with whoever stays for ohio jobs that don’t EXIST! whatever. trust me georgia, you can have my job. you can have all the stress of never knowing when the next r.i.f. is coming, never know when you’re on the chopping block or what work you’re going to acquire from someone else who got chopped and how much less money you’re going to make for taking on that additional work. good luck to you and your families. i hope you don’t take some of these extra jobs just to have it happen to you when the CEO decides to move it again to New York.
Report this comment
DannyX
June 2nd, 2009
5:27 pm
Great post welp! I feel your pain. Wait until you those that do make it here realize what a mess metro Atlanta is in. If it wasn’t clear then it will be, the employees were sold out for a few bucks. Its a disgrace. The metro Atlanta area can’t even deal with what we have. The state has no problem ignoring Atlanta’s growth problems as long as there is a buck to be made.
Report this comment
UGA1301984
June 2nd, 2009
5:52 pm
Great win Columbus and Duluth! That makes 2 Fortune 500 companies for Columbus and 2 Fortune 1000 companies. Atlanta and Columbus continue to lead the way for major companies!
Report this comment
Stuck in Dayton, but with a daughter (soon) in Atlanta
June 2nd, 2009
5:56 pm
The reason that NCR was in Dayton from the beginning is because it was ‘born’ here.
The chances of luring NCR from Dayton to Georgia in the 1950’s and 1960’s were very low, because of the physical committment in Dayton.
When most of what was left was ‘brain power’ it was a lot easier to move it away.
Dayton needs to nurture the innovators that are here, now. That’s who will be the next NCR.
Current policy is pretty hostile to a lot of business, so if I were starting up a company, I doubt I’d do it in Dayton either.
It was easy for Strickland to come in at the last minute and say, ‘wait, here’s some cash,’ knowing (or at least he should have known) that it would be turned down. That way he looks like he tried to save things.
Truth is, Ohio is not business friendly place, and more companies are going to leave (both large and small ones that many will never even know about) until things change.
It’s not entirely about Strickland. It’s the culture at city hall and the permanent politico folks in Columbus.
Dance your happy dance if you want to, but realize that you’re better off creating real NEW jobs, using the brain power that exists in the Atlanta area, because these are the people that care about the community, and will help to grow the culture (and not just their paychecks) in the future.
Report this comment
billy
June 2nd, 2009
5:58 pm
After losing the Headquarters of Bell South, Scientific Atlanta and Georgia Pacific, Georgia has plenty of people who need jobs but how long will they actually stay? Georgia no longer has the talent to produce growing companies so it seemed like a good idea to pay for one who has reduced employee count every year for two decades! NCR has lost out to the competition to the point they are seeking corporate welfare to stay afloat. Its not as if NCR is a growing company because they are not.
Report this comment
Bob
June 2nd, 2009
8:04 pm
Does anyone have a concept of basic economics? At all? Georgia did not “pay” $60MM for NCR to come. Most of that “payment” comes from tax credits and abatements that the State had not realized and would never realize. If NCR didn’t locate here, then it wouldn’t file corporate income taxes here. In other words, aside from some basic workforce training costs, most of that money is not now nor ever would be in the state treasury. It’s not as if the state wrote a $60MM check to NCR. It simply excused it from taxes that it would owe… so it’s an essential zero-sum proposition for the state…
… for waiving the right to collect certain taxes for a fixed of time, the State gains 2000+ high-paying jobs for its citizens… ALL of whom will pay income tax… and sales tax…. and most likely property tax… and on it goes.
So which do you prefer? If the state didn’t have the statutes in place to provide these tax breaks, then the companies would not locate here. Either way you DO NOT collect the $60MM in taxes. But with this system, in return for a short-term abatement/credit, you grow white-collar jobs in different areas of the state.
Easy choice.
Report this comment
Dee Elizabeth
June 2nd, 2009
8:34 pm
The history of NCR is as follows: Established 125 years ago and at the peak had over 60,000 jobs in the Dayton area. Fast forward to the Mark Hurd years where he was bread through growth in the NCR organization. He utlized tax breaks to ship infrastructure positiosn oversea’s which further depleted the corporate number of associates in the Dayton market; he did, however, respect the fact that Patterson created NCR as the backbone of the Dayton area and kept corporate jobs there as a result. Fast forward to Nuti…as a condition of employment he was required to move from NY to Dayton, never happened. He subsequently pulled executive positions to NYC and clearly created a fact finding team to seek out a tax haven to move the corporation. I am a former associate and I can promise you that many of the associates will NOT move with the organization as has been referenced in this document. It’s a sad day for Dayton and Nuti should be ashamed for putting his own stock wealth ahead of the history of this organization. Patterson is rolling over in his grave as we speak.
Report this comment
Nard
June 2nd, 2009
8:54 pm
Don’t care for Gov. Sonny, he hasn’t accomplished much since he’s been in office. I’m not even a Republican, but the good ole’ boy got this one right.
Report this comment
LoveATL
June 2nd, 2009
8:57 pm
The AJC should require everyone to take and pass an IQ exam before posting a comment. A lot of these remarks are just plain ignorant. Like Bob stated this basic economics, and those that are posting negative comments don’t get it. I have to give kudos to Gov Perdue on this one.
Report this comment
Washington Township
June 2nd, 2009
9:04 pm
Sounds like a good deal from here in Dayton. I note that NCR is actually building a manufacturing plant down in Columbus. That will employ 900. I had thought NCR had offshored all their manufacturing by now, so a bit of a suprise to see them building capy. stateside. $70k jobs might be weak for Georgia, but that’s good money in Ohio.
One interesting angle about this deal is that the trend seemed to indicate NCR was already moving ops to the Altanta era. They apparently have a training center and customer service operation out in Peachtree City. So this was the final phase, perhaps, of a multi-stage move? Did Perdue give NCR $$$ to do what they might have been planning –or considering—all along?
But yeah, sounds like a good move in the long run, if NCR can turn itself around. They were a presence in Dayton (in the recent past) more as a donor to charities and arts, not as a force in the local economy. We are driven more by defense spending for IT, R&D, and intel stuff now. Professional, scientific, and technical things.
Report this comment
Ken (Maryland)
June 2nd, 2009
9:52 pm
Bob and so the Laws of Unintended Consequences begins. Who knows where it will lead. Based on your premise it is all upside to recruit companies outside Georgia. It is agreed that you generate jobs which generate income taxes and consumption taxes. At the outset it is indeed a winning proposition. But I think it is just the opening salvo. Today Georgia does reap taxes from established Georgia companies. The taxes that these companies pay are the foundation for the state budget process. These companies have now become fair game to re-locate outside Georgia. Now some would argue that this is war. If you can’t win then hurt your enemy. BTW to I imagine that to Ohioans Georgia is the enemy. So if I’m in corporate development in Ohio I make very aggressive offers. As you point out any company that relocates generates revenue which is gravy. Any monies received is monies that would not be received without the relocation. Now if Georgia wants to keep Coke, or Delta, or Simmons they will have to grant some tax concessions. Now that will create some revenue losses Ohio now has motivation and a blueprint. It will be interesting to watch from Maryland as this plays out.
Report this comment
J
June 2nd, 2009
10:11 pm
LoveATL and Bob,
It’s not a zero sum game b/c those 1,000 – 2,000 people and their families need services, use roads, firefighters, and schools. Sure they pay state income tax but the state gov’t effectively zeroed out NCR’s need to pay income tax for the next decade or so given their 2008 earnings and assuming all domestic income was realized in GA rather than around the country. Sure NCR stands to save millions when or if they make a profit again but I’m getting the feeling that wasn’t the whole story b/c NCR wouldn’t pay anywhere near 56M over 5 yrs in state income tax based on their structure, revenue, etc. Why does my company have to pay these taxes when NCR doesn’t? What’s to keep Home Depot from calling up Purdue now and asking for the same deal or they pull up their 4,000+ employees and head to Florida? What’s to keep Ohio from calling UPS and offering 100M tax credit refunded up front for them to move to the old DHL/Airborne site? Georgia has specifically targeted a company w/ incentives to steal jobs from another state rather than create new ones on its own. We’ve told our neighbors that we’ll fight for the bottom to steal jobs rather than make them ourselves by fostering entrepreneurs, or convincing companies to partner with our schools for more research opportunities.
Georgia already has one of the lowest corporate income taxes in the country and if we needed to wipe that completely to attract a rapidly shrinking has been company, we’re in very sorry shape if Texas, Florida, or the Carolinas figure out they can get our Fortune 500’s to uproot for various tax cuts or incentives.
I worked for NCR for almost 2 years and saw how their corporate mantra was lets make it to the next quarter. They implemented hiring freezes almost every quarter after the 1st month so they could make the next quarter’s earnings regardless of business need. They sold their future HQ location and leased it back so they could book some money for that quarter. The fact that Purdue doubled the incentives of Ohio when he probably didn’t have to is like others have said money he left money on the table. Nuti took it and ran all the way to the next measure that will bump up his bonus for the year.
NCR already had a lot of the remaining R&D jobs left in the states in Duluth. The rest has been shipped off overseas and its not coming back regardless of Purdue’s tax incentives. We’ve also garnered significant ill will to grab some jobs that will likely get laid off soon enough at the rate NCR has been cutting its headcount. The manufacturing plant/training centers were wins but to move the HQ kind of changes things b/c its not about job creation anymore.
So go cheer, celebrate etc…then try to get a job at NCR that pays anything decent. They’re fighting their way off the Fortune 500 faster than those jobs will benefit the GA economy. Georgia may fancy itself business friendly but it appears we’ve made it too friendly and all too many of our homegrown businesses get fat and uncompetitive where they get bought up by more aggressive companies that then dump the thousands of HQ employees they no longer need. Ask yourself how many Bellsouth employees jobs completely disappeared and see if NCR came anywhere near making up for it.
Report this comment
Clay
June 2nd, 2009
10:28 pm
Companies like Coke, AFLAC, Home Depot and Delta aren’t going anywhere. Delta pulled out of Minnesota when the Northwest merger took place to stay in Atlanta. Companies like UPS and NewellRubbermaid recently moved to Georgia–just like NCR is doing. Kia will be making cars by the end of the year in West Point. Georgia is very pro-business and the population is very attractive to businesses. NCR got a good deal, and Georgia (namely Duluth and Columbus) got a great deal more.
Report this comment
Jim in Atlanta
June 2nd, 2009
10:55 pm
It’s certainly a loss for OH as well as other northern states who insist on maintaining an unfriendly business climate through high taxes and regulation. When will they ever learn? Unfortunately not until all the manufacturing is gone. I am originally from CT and the same thing happened there 30 years ago when the manufacturing base left the state. Sadly, people in those small mill towns are waiting for those jobs to come back but they never will. If you want good manufacturing jobs in OH or CT or any other place for that matter then throw the liberal anti-business politicians out and elect some leaders who understand what is needed to make business thrive.
Report this comment
John F
June 2nd, 2009
11:22 pm
To Jim in Atlanta-
It is not a “northern” problem. It is a problem with the business climate in general, and a result of the Republican leadership that has damaged Ohio’s ability to retain business. Since your obviously don’t know what your talking about (not a surprise for a Republicant). They were in control of the Ohio state house, senate, and governorship for 16 years, so don’t blame “liberal” politicians. The problem is the bottom feeders in the South who can’t grow their own local business into world class operations, so they bribe other companies to relocate there at the expense of their tax base.
Given the financial stewardship of some of your stalwart companies- Home Depot, UPS, etc. you have a lot to learn about business and job creation… Atlanta isn’t the end all, be all. Too many people, too much pollution, poor housing selection, long commutes, and of course that inbred southern ignorance. No thanks, I’ll pass.
Report this comment
LoveATL
June 2nd, 2009
11:56 pm
Taxes, taxes and more taxes. Per the article this wasn’t the only reason that NCR made the decision to relocate to Atlanta. I do think that the CEO’s No.1 reason to move is because of the skilled labor force is BS. Atlanta, has an International Airport, some of the top colleges in the country and business friendly. People are taking this topic to personal, especially stealing from our neighbors comment. I am grateful to have leadership that understands business. What creative things that Ohio’s leadership are doing to draw businesses there. Maybe they need a bigger airport, set up a business partnership with a China.. oops, Georgia already did that. My point is that, it is not anyone’s fault but the leadership in Ohio for being lame and not get off their asses to ensure economy growth.
Report this comment
J
June 3rd, 2009
12:15 am
Clay,
You have to realize its a business decision. Georgia doesn’t necessarily have anything Ohio doesn’t have. Our public schools are terrible and we have ridiculous traffic given our population. Cost of living is a bit higher here and most of our top grads get paid better in other states. Hand Home Depot enough money and they’ll leave town. The same goes for UPS and Rubbermaid…they found their way here b/c GA made the business case they were cheaper. The moment that stops being the case, expect them to leave.
NCR is an Ohio institution w/ 125 years of history there. It’s fallen on some serious hard times…much of it management’s fault. Virtually everything but Coca Cola was founded somewhere else. Delta’s first home was Monroe, Lousiana so we are mostly comprised of transplanted industries. Purdue isn’t the first to lure businesses away but to celebrate this like its actually something positive rather than realize its nothing more than a corporate giveaway to a company so willing to walk away from its tradition as a company that was built on the hard work of the Ohio people who made it an international company by the 1890’s, the largest IPO of its time, and a huge innovator through the 1980’s.
Jim,
It has nothing to do w/ liberal or conservative…NCR doesn’t have any real regulation or union issues b/c it doesn’t build anything in Dayton. NCR isn’t GM…although they share some common figures in their past. NCR instead is a company that long ago lost its way as a tech company when it sold its manufacturing but never figured out how to make money off software. The company is far too dependent on building boxes be it ATM’s, Kiosks, Point of Sales, or self checkout to make real economic profits when the product is dominated by a hundred lbs of steel, plastic, and commodity computer parts that any other company can throw together and undercut NCR.
Companies found their way to Georgia even when Democrats were in Office…low employee protections, low taxes, and cheap labor bring companies here. Last time I checked much of Georgia’s relatively light manufacturing base got shipped off long ago to Asia, Mexico, etc. Our remaining industries are carpet which are too low margin/heavy to make overseas, and a single foreign automaker. Honda’s been building cars in Ohio successfully since 1982 and never needed a layoff. Maybe company management has something to do w/ the ability for a company to thrive anywhere.
Report this comment
Al
June 3rd, 2009
12:23 am
This is great news for Georgia. I really do feel bad for the people of Dayton I know this loss must greatly hurt their economy. Metro Atlanta has become a mecca for business on a global scale with giants like Coke, Home Depot, Cox, and so much more; and Columbus is the 2nd most important city in Georgia for global business being home to such big compnaies as Aflac, TSYS, Synovous, Carmike, Toms Foods, and much more With the Kia Plant halfway between Columbus & Atlanta I think that these two cities will lead the state in new job growth over the next few years and probaly be the main two stablizers for our states economy.
Report this comment
J
June 3rd, 2009
12:36 am
LoveATL,
NCR coming to ATL has nothing to do w/ flights to Shanghai. NCR can’t compete in China. Kiosks, ATM’s, etc all assume a high cost of labor. An NCR self checkout terminal costs $20,000 w/o service contract. The setup at your avg Home Depot costs $100,000 + service. There isn’t a business case for this level of automation when your cost of labor is sub $0.50/hr. Pretty much all of NCR’s growth has been in high cost areas like the UK, Germany, Japan, and the US. Most people would rather talk to a person than push buttons on a terminal and bag stuff yourself. Much of the design, development, and testing already takes place in Cebu, Philippines where a software engineer makes $5,000-10,000/yr vs. $60,000-$100,000 here. The R&D jobs in Duluth were already here and had survived 2 decades of mismanagement w/o needing $60M in tax incentives.
Georgia may have some top colleges but go look at how many GT or Emory grads leave for other states b/c our local companies aren’t paying competitive salaries. Ask yourself if you’d rather see high paying jobs from Intel/AMD/Cisco for GT EE grads where 6 figures is the norm in 3-5 yrs or $10/hr jobs putting cars together down in south GA? Purdue could have just given tax credits to any companies founded/building R&D centers near GT/Emory/UGA campuses which would have brought/kept far more high paying jobs in Georgia. Instead we bought our way to a slowly dying 125 yr old “tech” company.
I understand business just fine. That’s why I left NCR for a role that pays me 50% more in an industry that has actual growth opportunities. Sure we had layoffs but the avg salary of the engineers, testers, admins, and middle management we laid off averaged $150k. At the same time we manage the same net income as NCR in ‘08 while needing 1/8 as much revenue and 1/10 the # of people. I understand that NCR isn’t competitive against most of its peers and bringing it here is far less of a win than everyone’s making it. This win does have costs as there is no free lunch except maybe for Nuti who probably kept his job by getting this sweetheart deal. Even as an NCR alum that was based in Duluth, I can appreciate how much NCR’s employees prided itself on its Dayton, OH heritage. It was the AT&T merger that really destroyed the heart of the company and ever since it’s been on autopilot.
Report this comment
Robert Rayf
June 3rd, 2009
5:43 am
The old saying the south shall rise again,It has definiatelly in Georgia,Which will out populate Ohio in probally 10 years,Ohio may be down for the count for now,But I have a sneaky feeling well come back
,the question is when GOVENOR STRICKLAND,WE NEED JOBS
Report this comment
Bill
June 3rd, 2009
8:35 am
When the good people of Dayton and Ohio finally get over their anger, frustration, and bitterness, and actually visit Atlanta and Columbus, GA, they’ll find great, progressive Southern cities that are nice places to live, work, and raise families! Your feelings are understandable, but please quit hammering these cities without knowing anything about them. http://www.visitcolumbusga.com
Report this comment
Buckeye
June 3rd, 2009
9:36 am
John F – the Buckeye state is wasting away and you have the arrogance to come here and post absolute nonsense. Your attitude towards others is not what our values are about. I am a proud resident of Upper Arlington, Ohio and I can see for myself, as many millions of others Ohioans can, what the “Brain Drain” and DEMOCRATIC “leadership” and thinking (voting)is doing to our ONCE great state.
As far an inbred arrogance goes, you can travel all over rural OH and see just as many if not more Confederate flags and “rednecks”. The South may take the blame for that, but for someone that tries to project “intelligence” you are NOT well traveled and have no clue what is happening all over the YOUR state.
So John F, since you have all the answers, YOU fix the problems of Ohio. Georgia and the other Southern states are obviuosly doing something RIGHT to attract our former natives and businesses. Ohio will be the next Michigan with an attitude like yours.
Report this comment
Buckeye
June 3rd, 2009
10:13 am
John F – loosing your job is hard, but you have to admit that NCR is doing what is best for the company, but unfortunately staying in OH is not what is best. You are going to have to, without the bitter insults, pick yourself up and look for another job.
The one person in Ohio that fights for business is Les Wexner, founder of Limited companies. Wexner is the biggest asset we have, but Stickland can’t use him and Wexner won’t be used. He actually fought and WON to have NetJets, a Warren Buffet gem, stay in Columbus after they threatened to move their base to Raleigh, NC. The irony of all of this is that the Wright brothers are from Dayton, OH. Yes, the two men that started aviation are from Dayton, but did the critical work on the Outer Banks of NC!
Georgia and it’s Gov. deserve congratulations. Gov. Strickland and the citizens of Ohio need to work hard to stop the bleeding, period.
Report this comment
newkid
June 3rd, 2009
10:19 am
Polls of this ilk appear to suggest an ‘us’ versus ‘them’ approach to growing our state economy as compared to other states in the US. Is that helpful or productive? Are we the United States of America or some ramshackle of smaller nation-states feverishly competing with each other is a survival of the fit mode? Over time sure we’ll gain a few enterprises that seek the advantages that locating in Georgia might provide; and surely we’ll continue to see a few leave Georgia for other states for similar reasons. Can’t we avoid wallowing in gratuitous self congratulation of this sort? Can’t we rather continue to build the intellectual capital, the physical infrastructure, the business climate, and other attributes that are attractive to companies without resorting to puerile back-slapping at the slightest hint of modest success?
Report this comment
Bone
June 3rd, 2009
10:26 am
Can’t we just all get along?? Now, everyone hold hands and sing around the campfire!
Please!! If you lost your job here due to it moving to another state or country, your attitude would change in a heartbeat. As stated by many, Dayton and Ohio itself would have kept a 125 year old company in place, if they did the right things.
Their lost…our gain. And so it goes….
Report this comment
Chris
June 3rd, 2009
10:54 am
Thank you “Bob” @june 2nd 8:04pm for explaining this for everyone that thinks GA “gave up” something to get NCR to Duluth.
Report this comment
Chris
June 3rd, 2009
11:09 am
Companies aren’t going to leave GA for the north or west coast it is too expensive these days. The only competition for ATL would be another southern city -chiefly Dallas-centrally located, Intl Airport, very business friendly state, mild weather, workforce, arts and entertainment etc.
Report this comment
newkid
June 3rd, 2009
11:15 am
Thanks Bone. The fact that we know not each other should inform your assertion regarding the mutability of my attitude when confronted with an altered circumstance. NCR has made its decision (for whatever reasons). Any appearances of smugness on our part – intended or otherwise – as the beneficiaries of that decision should properly be viewed as infantile behavoir. If that sort of behavoir works for you, so be it.
Report this comment
Ex-Daytonian
June 3rd, 2009
12:40 pm
To those who think that Georgia has started something new here by attracting a Fortune 500 company to move, let’s look at what Georgia has lost in the last few years. Bell South was bought by AT&T which was located in San Antonio but then moved to Dallas. Georgia-Pacific was bought by the largest private company in the US (Koch) and is no longer listed on the Fortune 500 list.
Other states and cities are more aggressive in their strategy than Georgia.
Report this comment
Buckeye
June 3rd, 2009
1:34 pm
Chris – totally agree. The only problem with doing business in TX is that employees are finding the COL is very high. The housing market has remained untouched in cities like Houston. Most native Texans will tell you they are fearful the Lonestar state is destined to become the next CA, with RE skyrocketing.
Report this comment
Kate Laneve
June 3rd, 2009
2:45 pm
I am a 28 year employee of NCR corporation. I grew up in Dayton, went to John H. Patterson High School, and started my career with NCR in Dayton after graduate school. In 1995, I was in Chicago field operations and was given a choice of whether to return to Dayton or come to Atlanta. Although all my family and friends were in Dayton, I chose Atlanta because I expected the job market in Ohio and in Dayton specifically would be shrinking. I felt Georgia provided better opportunities for myself and my family. Regardless of my personal choices along the way, I am very proud of NCR for having been a truly sustainable business for the past 125 years. The reason for our longevity is our ability to re-invent ourselves and adjust to changing circumstances. I have many friends in Dayton, and I am truly sorry for their situations, but I applaud our NCR management for continuing the tradition of our founders, that is, to innovate, change and position the company to the best advantage of all our stake-holders worldwide. NCR is not just Dayton, Ohio. It is a global company of 22,000 wonderfully diverse employees. I welcome current employees who choose to relocate to the Atlanta area and our new hires as well.
Report this comment
Wilbert News Strategies
June 3rd, 2009
4:10 pm
The Equitable Building “auction” is just the beginning. Funds waiting to pick up distressed properties still are standing on the sidelines, waiting to see “blood in the streets.” As for the Equitable Building, the $49/sq. ft it went for at auction is not expected to set the mark for towers in downtown, though it could put downward pricing pressure on similar, proximate Class B buildings. If Capmark tries to sell the Equitable Building in three or four months, that’s when the sale price could impact market pricing downtown.
Report this comment
Joshua Keen
June 3rd, 2009
4:22 pm
Yes. I think that’s a sign of things to come, for sure. Though I’m not directly in the commercial industry — I sell residential real estate here in Atlanta — if the downturn in the residential real estate market over the last 12 months is any indication then it’s going to be a tough situation for folks who are in the commercial market — developers and agents alike.
Report this comment
Daytonian
June 3rd, 2009
4:30 pm
Atlanta (and Georgia in general) does not create jobs or companies. It raids them from other states who have done all the work. Please note that these comments are in the Atlanta Journal Constitution, a Cox newspaper. And where was Cox founded? Dayton, Ohio, of course.
Report this comment
Daytonian
June 3rd, 2009
4:34 pm
To Buckeye @June 3
“Yes, the two men that started aviation are from Dayton, but did the critical work on the Outer Banks of NC!” Uh, no, they did the critical work in Dayton. They tested the results in NC because it had favorable winds, soft sand to land on, and was so remote no one would snoop on what they were doing. Also note, nobody in North Carolina came up with the idea of powered flight or had the determination to pursue it.
Report this comment
Me
June 3rd, 2009
5:43 pm
Actually, NCR got the better end of the deal!
Report this comment
John F
June 4th, 2009
6:23 am
Phuck Georgia. I hope terrorists nuke Atlanta. I for one would stand up and applaud them.
Report this comment
bigD
June 4th, 2009
12:23 pm
I’ve seen this before. A change of venue, to change the culture of a dying company. My guess is that not more than 20 percent of the employees will move, so along the way they can shed as many employees as possible, and replace it with “new blood”. This company will be gone in two years.
Report this comment
j a
June 4th, 2009
12:52 pm
I am from Dayton (and proud of it) and live 10 minutes from Duluth, you will travel on one of the most congested highways in the USA and your pay will be cut in half. Welcome to Georgia
Report this comment
Dick Hodges
June 4th, 2009
12:55 pm
For the all-too few metro Atlanta citizens who have been trying for many years to call attention to our area’s transportation failings, recent evidence that an increasing number of influential political and business leaders– and media– have finally “got the message” is heartening. Now is past time for meaningful “action”. Years and years of lack of vision, knowledge, true leadership and political courage regarding the need for increased public financial support for all appropriate and proven modes ef transportation–not just highways–have been disappointing and costly for the future. Now there is reason to “hope” that some meaningful “action” is in the offing, sooner than later.
Report this comment
Shanel
June 4th, 2009
4:30 pm
Enter your comments here
Report this comment
Shanel
June 4th, 2009
4:38 pm
This is funny and sad…funny as in: “How’d he know that? Was he here today”? Sad as in: “Where’s the bottom”?.. I’m in the process of packing to move to our other building Monday to consolidate because my whole department was dissolved. The entire floor will be empty as of Monday. Today there are 3 of us left on this floor. There was 16 people here in January.
Report this comment
Michael
June 4th, 2009
5:03 pm
My friend’s office complex where 78 and 124 cross in Snellville is in foreclosure — set for July.
Report this comment
Jane Goodall
June 4th, 2009
5:05 pm
You’re e-mail is hunger (heh, heh).
Report this comment
mark
June 4th, 2009
11:29 pm
no one is commenting because no one is in the office…ECHO!!! ECHO!!! ECHO!!!
Report this comment
gold is honest money
June 5th, 2009
12:32 am
It’s a race to the bottom that nobody wants to win. We print money at an alarming rate. Buy physical gold because we’ll be a third world country soon. Can you say Zimbabwe?
Report this comment
Correct
June 5th, 2009
5:09 am
Please review your comments before pressing the “submit” button. The downturn is part of the economic cycle. Just relax. If everyone in Atlanta had just “relaxed” a bit instead of going fiscally bonkers, then this part of the cycle would not have come so soon or dropped to such depths.
Report this comment
Dan Agramonte
June 5th, 2009
6:13 am
Not really. No empty cubicles–in fact, we’re hiring and business is great.
Report this comment
Dan Agramonte
June 5th, 2009
6:42 am
I’m shocked to see a story about North Dakota’s economy–I’m going back there on business again next week. Also, was in Wyoming just 2 weeks ago. The story really misses the mark–I don’t think anything has changed in either state, (ND or WY); the real story is that things have changed in the OTHER states. Three states that I would put in with ND and WY: OK, AK and TX, again, due to intelligent use of natural resources and smart fiscal management. Again, we don’t hear much about this in the mainstream news–doesn’t fit the NE paradigm (flyover territory?).
Report this comment
Cubicle Dweller
June 5th, 2009
6:47 am
Most of the people on my floor have been laid off, and my boss has been looking at me funny lately—I’ll probably be gone in a few weeks too. It’s depressing. I may go to law school to learn how to sue companies for big money.
Report this comment
Road Scholar
June 5th, 2009
6:50 am
We’ll have to wait and see. They have given it lip service in the past with no plan. GDOT started the design on many projects when Perdue started his first term based on his comments to address additional funding. All he did was sell bonds for a few initial projects, change the encumbered fund accounting system to a monthly pay out system , then back to the encumbered fund system. That is one reason why there is an immediate shortage of transportation funding. When you move proposed monthly payments to present worth, you hold all your money, leaving little for new projects. The other is due to paying off the bonds; this amounts to about 20% of GDOT’s budget.
The prioritization of projects based on need and not political influence is a must. Would someone PLEASE analyze the GRIP system and see what rate of return we have received on these 4 lane rural projects. Where is the development they were suppose to bring? It appears that there is very low traffic counts on these roads even after widening. Was this a wise investment considering the needs of the rest of the state?????
Report this comment
Vcatron
June 5th, 2009
7:33 am
Having survived a a layoff my office is rather empty now. In the last 2 years have lost 3 people to moves and positions were not back filled and recently had 4 laid off. On my floor 1/3rd of the seats are now empty.
Report this comment
Jo Atlanta
June 5th, 2009
7:55 am
With a 15% reduction and tele-work to help retain staff, the office is very empty. Too bad they did not move to tele-work sooner to avoid leasing more space before the downturn.
Report this comment
john
June 5th, 2009
7:59 am
injured on the job dec 2006 laid off mar 2007 (Yeah the had me still working for 3 months while injured,) finally got W/C to give surgery in Nov. 07 recieved release from Temp disbility and permission to return to work may 08, thats 14 mo. out of work folks for an injury Sports Heros get treatment and return to work in 3-4 mo. or less. been web searching jobs may 08 till current and have had 2 interviews and 3rd is scheduled today. been applying to min.2 aday each work day . still not working reg. job.
Report this comment
GT
June 5th, 2009
8:09 am
A lot of people are uses it as an excuse to work at home. People in this generation hate coming to an office anyway. We started with casual Friday, now they are naked at home or at the gym telling their boss they are at home working. This recession will bring some seriousness back into the workplace, through I think people are more concern with personal happiness than success. Glavine the pitcher for the Braves kind of showed the way of the new world. He was upset he was not fired on his terms, never entered his mind he had nothing to offer. Jobs have become entitlement just part of life like paved roads and running water. This recession may allow the employer to put the train back on the track. The auto industry leading the way. A man or woman can be proud of their job again. Isn’t is odd it is coming on a Democrats watch instead of the Republican watch.
Report this comment
Bone
June 5th, 2009
9:59 am
J,
So you are one of the people that gets his experience and, instead of investing his/her experience with the company that gave you that, you move on to the next higher paying job. Boy, there’s some loyalty for you!! What are you going to do when they cut your pay and/or don’t give you the bonus you think you deserve?
You talk about companies changing directions…seems people like you change direction and wonder why companies act as they do. Think about your own decisions and ask yourself why a company would want to keep you or someone else.
Report this comment
SAR
June 5th, 2009
10:13 am
We have experienced some layoffs but not at an alarming rate and to be honest, the work-load seems to be the same for those of us still here. I have not noticed an influx of work or responsibilites suddenly shifting my way. I think the so called economic recession for some companies afforded the comapny the opportunity to eliminate some people they’d have to probably go court to get rid of but they used the recession as a means to do so without as much of a potential legal battle being involved. They simply eliminated the position and not the person and the person was welcome to apply for another job within the company but I have yet to see the ones that were ‘let go’ in a new position.
Report this comment
Help me
June 5th, 2009
11:00 am
No, we haven’t had any layoffs..Sometimes though, I really wish that I was in an office alone..I get so sick of my coworker talking to her Mother 9-10 times a day..Half of those times they talk in baby talk and it drives me crazy..She lives at home with her Mom and I don’t think they ever talk at home..Then there are the times that she calls home to talk to the dog and cat or to ask her Mom what the animals are doing..
Report this comment
Friday:)
June 5th, 2009
11:52 am
My buliding is over half empty. They got rid of 8 departments laying off about 140+ people. They outsourced 3 more departments. Our cubes are just hodge podge and there are whole sections that are just empty floor. (The building is over 10,000 sq ft is 75% empty.) My department went from 50 people to 20. Meanwhile, the company has shown a steady increase in profit quarter after quarter, harbors little debt, and the CEO will, more than likely, receive his bonus this year. Oh, my short term and long term disability was taken away. The company will only match 4% of my 401K instead of the previous 6%.
I guess I shuld be grateful I am still employed (and working 15 hours of overtime a week!)but it’s hard when you watch people who worked here 30 years get laid off and replaced with a $10 per hour temp or not at all. I’m no longer proud of where I work. I didn’t use to feel this way. It was a great company! The clients are upset now b/c it is taking longer to service them and we’re makign more errors. I don’t know if we’re going to make it.
Report this comment
Jeff
June 5th, 2009
12:39 pm
I wouldn’t get too excited about the job market just yet! The jobless numbers are so skewed that they are worthless. They don’t take into account the number of people who are under-employed, in part time positions, those who have given up on looking for work or those that have been out of work so long that they’ve dropped off the government’s accounting. But as usual…the media is spinning the number as a good thing. And the traders are jumping all over the news to manipulate the market accordingly…as witnessed by the DOW surge and then drop as they grabbed some quick profits! I wish I could post stories to CNBC and other outlets to drive the market as I saw fit!
Report this comment
cc
June 5th, 2009
12:43 pm
Ga wins for now, but Ohio can win as well. NCR will take the risk of leaving all of its talented workforce behind for new digs in the south.
All you talented engineers, techs and admin people need not roll over and sob. YOU HAVE what the new workers don’t have, that is the know how and inside scoop on what it takes to make a great machine! And for whatever NCR was lacking in manufacturing or marketing you (people of Dayton) have the ability to band together, form your own privately held company and compete with your former employers. NCR may have given up on Dayton, but the people dont have to give up on what they know how to do best. Now look for ways to do it better and COMPETE!
lets go buckeye make it a win win (its third and ten whatcha gonna do?)
Report this comment
Devildog
June 5th, 2009
1:01 pm
I’m sure Henry prefers Maria Saporta, too. She’s hot!
Report this comment
Stock market provides hope · Finance Finance Blog, Banking Institutions, Financial Advice, Insurance, Mortgage, Personal Finance & Stock Market
June 6th, 2009
3:07 am
[...] That’s partly because economists were expecting a much worse picture of 500,000 job losses. Read more Courtesy : [...]
Report this comment
joe
June 6th, 2009
8:44 am
Bone is right on the money! Ohio has an anti-business environment that most Ohioans like to ignore. With the uncertain tax liabilities associated to Strickland’s educational reform, if passed, businesses will be even more inclined to expand or move outside of the state of Ohio. Ohio has a very high effective tax rate and does not offer the Right to Work laws that other states do. Ohio needs a consistent long term pro-business policy. Tax incentives should be policy not a last hour inducement. That is why GA has been on the mind of so many business leaders for the past 40 years!
Report this comment
joe
June 6th, 2009
9:01 am
Ohio suffers from problems of its’ own making. Too much protection of union labor, taxes that are too high and a state government that is bloated, full of redundancies and corruption. Until the prideful Buckeyes wake up and realize there are more important issues than a football team in Columbus, states like Georgia are going to be the benefitiary of a more Ohio based companies relocating operations and headquarters. GM-Delphi-DHL-NCR, all offered last hour tax deals by Governor Strickland. All closed up shop or moved. Who’s next? Just to be clear, I was born, raised and once again live in Ohio. Watching this has been painful. Ohio is turning into a suburb of Detroit and it aint pretty! It is unfair and unrealistic to blame GA or Sonny Perdue for Ohio’s problems.
Report this comment
Anne
June 6th, 2009
9:58 pm
Can someone please tell me why mortgage rates are so high??? If they want people to buy shouldn’t there be some relief?
Report this comment
Stump Barnes
June 6th, 2009
11:06 pm
Henry,
I sense that your heart is just not into blogging. Your posts make the talking heads on CNBC seem enlightening.
If I’m wrong, I would suggest that you study some of the sharper blogs like Calculated Risk, Mish’s Global Economic Trend Analysis, Karl Denninger’s Market Ticker, and Yves Smith’s Naked Capitalism.
Anne,
Mortgage rates are rising and will continue to rise because the yields on U.S. Treasury bonds are rising (which ultimately influence mortgage rates). Despite the Federal Reserve’s foolish attempts at “quantative easing” the Treasury bond market is going to do what it needs to do.
If you believe in “green shoots” and the recovery story, then Treasury bond yields (and mortgage rates as a result) will continue to increase because investors/traders and pulling their money for the safe but low-yield environment of U.S. Treasuries and investing that money in riskier more rewarding assets like stocks. This is the story that CNBC and the Federal Reserve is promoting.
If you don’t believe the spin of CNBC and the Federal Reserve, then you would surmise that U.S. Treasury rates are headed higher (and mortgage rates as a result) because the Obama Administration is selling $1.8 trillion in new goverment debt this fiscal year, plus rolling over several hundred billion of expiring short term government debt. This new supply of U.S. government bonds is flooding the market and driving down the price of U.S. Treasuries. This in turn means that the yields must go up to attract new buyers.
Also, bear in mind that the European Union nations and the United Kingdom are planning to issue $3.4 trillion in new government debt between now and the end of 2010. And, the Obama Administration plans to engage in deficits of over a trillion dollars per year for the next few years. All of this means, that the bond markets will be flooded with a great supply of government bonds than has every happened before. The result will likely be rising yields for U.S. Treasury bonds, and thus rising mortgage rates.
The only way around this if there is a major deflation in the currency supply. However, that would result in a 1930’s economic collapse, and the Federal Reserve and Obama Administration are doing everything in their power to avoid this.
The bottomline is that mortgage must rise. However, can anyone explain to me how the housing market (and by extension the RMBS and CMBS markets) will recover if mortgage rate increases reduce the pool of available buyers and force more home “borrowers” into forclosure because they can’t re-fi or avoid their resetting or recasting mortgage, which in turn will increase the supply of existing homes for sell at distressed prices and further depress the value of other existing homes and discourage new home construction?
I guess the “green shoots” and China’s continued drive to create industrial overcapacity will save us.
Report this comment
jt
June 7th, 2009
7:07 am
The two lawyers at my firm are cleaning toilets and washing company vans. Pretty much useless for anything else.
Report this comment
bill
June 7th, 2009
7:18 am
lets not count the chickens before the eggs hatch ncr has an uphill battle when they try to hire educated, trainable employees they should be ok with hqrts in gwyt. but o boy when they try in columbus might be different story..
Report this comment
Hera
June 7th, 2009
8:34 am
If our Elected Spenders in the Georgia Assembly wanted to save money for their constituents on legal costs there are some simple laws they could actually pass for the benefit of the taxpayers of the State of Georgia.
Here are several ideas that will never become law because lawyers make the laws.
A) Get rid of jury trials for divorce. Georgia is one of the last states that still allow them.
B) When a couple gets a marriage license they should have to file a prenuptial form provided by the court. This would set out separate property and other issues such as agreement or not to alimony from one party to another, agreement or not to joint custody of any and all children, etc. There are many, many questions that could be asked on the form and answered by the parties so that in the event of a future divorce the parties have the prenuptial as evidence of intent at the time of the parties union.
C) Personal Injury Claim: There is a disability grid that provides payment for various injuries. Lose a hand at 24 years of age earning 50K/year – some underwriter has already figured out what that claim is worth. I think GA. should take that grid (or make a new one) and make all insurance companies pay out that sum certain to a victim of an injury within thirty days. Yes, there will be many times when the injury is not determinative in thirty days, but I think there could be a mechanism to get the victim some money soon. If negligence is an issue the money should be deposited in escrow. Why? Because victims will not need lawyers to get that first sum of money. They will not lose a third of it right away. If the victim wants more money than the grid system allows they have the right to sue for more. Lawyers will not be taking cases that they already know will not generate enough money to make their efforts profitable.
D) LOSER PAYS. The first argument we always here is that mean poor people can not bring law suits. That is really not true since if a person has nothing they have no ability to lose anything. The second argument is people will be hesitant to sue because if they lose the costs of litigation would be too overwhelming. The answer to these and all other arguments is for the State of Georgia to create a bond system for Civil Defense Cases. That means an attorney will buy a bond for every case they file. The bond amount will be based on the case and eventually the success of the attorney. Attorneys that win cases would pay a lesser bond amount than attorneys who take every case that comes into the door and hope they win enough to pay the rent. Individuals could buy a bond to protect their assets. People with no ability to pay would file a pauper’s affidavit. But this would weed out a lot of frivolous suits which clog our courts every day.
E) Each County should have forms on line for simple court matters so that we, the Citizens of GA., would not need attorneys. Fulton County actually does a decent job on their web site.
There are a lot of ways to save attorney fee costs that our Elected Spenders in Congress could cause to happen but they are much to busy getting reelected and making sure their friends and family stay employed.
Report this comment
Hera
June 7th, 2009
9:10 am
Where is my 401K/IRA bailout? Oh, I forgot. I worked, saved, paid taxes and now I have to bail out unions, pay government employee benefits/retirement that are 1000 times better than a self employed person like me could ever afford, pay for Automobile Manufacturers corporate mistakes, pay for AIG loses and probably pay for California too.
I wish I were a BF of BO. Life would be sweet!!
Report this comment
Buzz
June 8th, 2009
12:24 pm
I think individuals, even bad ones, make better owners of sports franchises than companies. Ted would probably have been a more liberal with the spending than AOL and Liberty Media.
Also, it has deprived us of his antics. Back when he was racing ostriches at the old stadium … those were the days.
I think selling the TV part of his empire to Time Warner was also a mistake. How much more entertaining would it be if Ted and Rupert Murdoch were the respective owners of CNN and Fox News?
Report this comment
Rick
June 8th, 2009
3:29 pm
No layoffs at my company but the office is empty because everyone works at home now. Its my company’s newest cost saving strategy. In an IT firm, you really don’t need an office building anymore. Everything is done with remote teams. There are pros and cons to this. You are not stuck in an office with a bunch of neurotic people caught up in habitual behavioral patterns. The negative is that you have zilch contact with humans other than the one or two dimensional communication mechanisms of conference calls or email. It would be nice if we could bridge the two a bit better. One is too much humanity and the other is too little humanity (too isolating).
Report this comment
Rick
June 8th, 2009
3:32 pm
Also, poor transport is the main cause of poor air quality. What intelligent, healthy person wants to live in a community where you can’t go outside because the air is too unhealthy?
Report this comment
Kenneth Bleakly
June 8th, 2009
5:24 pm
While these are and will continue to be challenging times in Atlanta’s real estate industry Cousins couldn’t be in better hands both today and going forward. Best of luck Larry and Tom, thanks for all you have done for Atlanta and the Company.
Report this comment
Karen
June 9th, 2009
10:35 am
It sounds like a lot of other “bull” that this admin. has lied about. When first introduced this “cash for your clunker” promised $5,000 for your under 18mpg vehicle, now it’s already down to $3500. If it sounds too good to be true, it is!
Report this comment
clyde
June 9th, 2009
11:12 am
I bought a ‘95 Ranger new in ‘96 for $11,300.I’m still driving it.It has 130,000 miles on it and it will last another 10 years.It gets 26 miles to the gallon in all over driving and has not needed any repairs.Even if this vehicle did qualify for a government rebate.I wouldn’t part with it.
Report this comment
Buzz
June 9th, 2009
11:39 am
Once again, our tax dollars are being used for corporate welfare! Why can’t we simply allow bad businesses to FAIL?
And don’t tell me it’s because of jobs … that lie is worn out. Japanese car companies would build more plants here if GM was put out to pasture.
Report this comment
The Voice
June 9th, 2009
11:45 am
O’LiarBama the Arrogant….I wonder if he is getting his descriptions of jobs saved or created and $5000 rebates from George Orwells 1984
Report this comment
The Voice
June 9th, 2009
11:47 am
Hey you unemployed Union Democrats…here you are unemployed, one step from bankruptsy and your hero is sightseeing in Paris….yes sir…a true man of the people.
Report this comment
Import Lover
June 9th, 2009
11:55 am
I wonder if the administration realizes that most of the cars that would qualify for this rebate are 4 cylinder imports!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Report this comment
Candance
June 9th, 2009
12:31 pm
Commercial real estate will continue it’s southward descent. There was a real estate “bubble” in commercial real estate, just like housing. Buyers were bidding up prices on properties with low cap rates. Now with jobs sputtering and the consumer in hiding, the engine that drives commercial real estate growth is tapped out.
Report this comment
deltaEcho
June 9th, 2009
12:40 pm
I am an NCR employee, but work neither in GA or OH. In my work experience, I have been both hired on by a company coming into my geographic area, and fired by an outgoing company. In my tenure here, I have seen employees laid off due to economic constraints and seen employees whose managers CREATED positions in order to keep them. I have spent a great deal of time in Dayton, and a great deal of time all over Georgia. There’s a greta deal of perspective to be had by this man’s opinion.
Dayton has been losing jobs for decades now. Dayton used to be the place to be if you were in the technology, aviation, or tire business. I hate that the employees in Dayton are upset about losing their jobs (or more pointedly, not taking relocation offers), but what NONE of them realize is that theyre not as mad about losing their job as they are about not having many options left. The governor is upset that the state of Ohio did not have the option of offering what the Atlanta area has to offer. The Ohio state government has been saying that ever since my grandfather lost his job from a Dayton plant sixty years ago.
BRAVO to NCR for keeping their company in the US in the face of dwindling respect for the American worker.
BRAVO to Georgia for allowing such a large corporation the opportunity to make that happen.
BRAVO to all the NCR employees that follow the new company in its new direction and migrate from Dayton to Columbus/Gwinnett/wherever it is.
Report this comment
David
June 9th, 2009
1:05 pm
Stop the freakin subsidies !!! If you are considering buying a new car off a lot, I as a penny pinchin’ taxpayer should not be subsidizing you to do so. Buy a used car to save money or pay for the whole damn thing yourself if you insist on a new car. The freakin’ gov needs to stop these crap ideas!
Report this comment
DJ
June 9th, 2009
1:17 pm
Nobody put a gun to those people’s head when they were buying a gas guzzler in the first place. When I bought my cars, I made a decision that was based on my finances and how much I can afford to spend on gas. If idiots driving gas guzzlers thought it was their birth right to drive those kind of cars, I should be subsidizing their stupidity with my taxes. This insanity has to STOP! Once and for ALL!!
Report this comment
Brad Steel
June 9th, 2009
3:03 pm
CUZ has under-performed its peer group since the beginning of this decade.
CUZ’s entrance into the condo business at or near the top of the market was a bad management decision and not just in hindsight. CUZ may have a lionized history in Atlanta, but their recent performance and strategic decisions leave nothing to brag about – unless you like bragging about making bad investments and bad management decisions.
Report this comment
SlimG
June 9th, 2009
5:18 pm
Where were you dumb#@ses during the election? You believed the hype and now see his true colors! Pun intended.
Report this comment
TangoSierra
June 9th, 2009
6:22 pm
Bravo for blowig the corporate executives and making them feel good about their decisions. There is a difference between NCR and the other companies that have left over the years…. NCR was founded in Dayton and had a long standing tradition of aiding its growth. Now it has started a new tradition of catering to the current chief’s whim.
Report this comment
art
June 10th, 2009
4:18 am
It’s about the environment you dumb *2sses! We have been giving away tax monies for generations to other countries for their causes. It is your small simple minded reasoning that elected Bush. Don’t you learn?!!! Just fools….
Report this comment
art
June 10th, 2009
4:20 am
Again you are fools!!!
Report this comment
David Gatch
June 10th, 2009
7:24 am
Anyway you cut it, its still TAXPAYER funds going into buying a vehicle, ultimately its our children that will have to pay the price for Washington’s idiocy. So go ahead, rob the future to fuel political games and future fiscal stability. Borrowing from Peter to pay Paul only lasts until Peter runs out of money…. and that where we are now……
Report this comment
Concerned
June 10th, 2009
7:37 am
I do not believe the Gov’t can change the financial destinies of these companies and America since they have not tackled the real problem. That is we, they, and all guilty parties should not live in Debt. You can have this for only this much a month, has to go. Once the wiggle room is gone from a families income, how many new car purchases are we going to see? Not many buyers(ref. supply vs demand), as pay check to pay check gets tighter and tighter. Just think in 5 years if you still have a job, you can own this wore out new car. In just 10 years you can own this wonderful travel trailer, an in just 15 to 30 years you can actually own your home if you continue to pay your taxes and the payments, repairs and such. This type of economy is self defeting, and I hope the youth can learn from where we went wrong to change the policies and actions. Pay with cash.
Report this comment
abigail
June 10th, 2009
8:39 am
maybe all of our expectations on how bad the economy will be are some what exaggerated.
Report this comment
Rob
June 10th, 2009
8:50 am
I think overall this is a higher estimation of declining percentages. Many consumers in this economy would rather do home repairs themselves rather than paying someone else to do it.
Report this comment
Rob
June 10th, 2009
8:58 am
Giving someone a dollar to buy a product that costs a hundred dollars does not help. Consumers shouldn’t be lured into buying something they ultimately can’t afford.
Report this comment
Rob
June 10th, 2009
9:05 am
Ted doesn’t always make great choices.
Report this comment
Still Bill
June 10th, 2009
9:23 am
Any proceeds from the governments investment will revert back to the government. This is
a long way from reverting back to the taxpayers. No telling how the money that will revert
back will be spent, but the chance of it benefiting the taxpayers if not 100% with how
congress spends money.
Report this comment
nuti is a Nutjob
June 10th, 2009
11:06 am
NCR is a dying company, Nutjob nuti is killing it peice by peice! Nutjob nuti, get ready for some more lawsuits!
Report this comment
gman
June 10th, 2009
12:37 pm
It’s pretty funny when you try to slam someone for being dumb and you can’t even spell Bankruptcy right thank you “The Voice” for proving yourself an idiot. And sure you can have Japanese companies build more factories over here but we still won’t see the corporate taxes ever help out because your president set us up for failure.
Report this comment
Frank D
June 10th, 2009
1:41 pm
Let me see if I understand this…
We’re going to reward people who didn’t see gas prices rising above $2.00 per gallon with an incentive to buy a more fuel-efficient car? Are you joking me? So we’re going to “pay” people to get out of their crappy Explorers and TrailBlazers which were the very vehicles that got the domestic automakers fat and happy before fuel prices shot-up…
Sure makes sense to me…here again, you do right, buy a fuel efficient car so you can plow your savings into things like education and retirement, and for what? What is the incentive for “playing by the rules?”
Punish the stupid I say! Why should anyone get an incentive for NOT making the most of their disposable income?
Other points to consider…The way that the EPA calculates gas mileage just changed for this last model year…what calculation will be used? The one used for when the car was sold new, or this current method? Also, how do I get my Obama money? I’m going on eBay right now and buy a barely running SUV so that I can get $4500 trade in for a new car…more than one way to skin a cat…
Report this comment
ggb
June 10th, 2009
1:55 pm
whats the effective date Feb1 or July1 will foreign produced autos be allowed
Report this comment
Facing up to own mistakes
June 10th, 2009
2:59 pm
I believe the city and the state must work together to attract more corporations to relocate here as in NCR or go the international arena and attract international companies to relocate their offices here like Invesco did from England. Georgia must leverage everything the states officers to beat out states like New York and Califirnia or anywhere else with high taxation, cost of living and office space. When we are able to show the city or state in a competitive light, the real estate markets and job status will begin to improve.
Report this comment
william maniff
June 10th, 2009
3:52 pm
I disagree with your comments about Isakson’s PR stunt proposing the distribution of GM shares to taxpayers (people who pay taxes not just file returns) . However he wouldn’t get covered in the uber liberal MSM if it wasn’t for this “stunt”. And I include the AJC in this category.
Report this comment
tm
June 10th, 2009
6:19 pm
sweet, I will hold on to my 13mpg F150 until the presses start rolling those checks, I appreciate everyone contributing to my new ride.
Report this comment
KC
June 11th, 2009
2:25 am
Frank D, great idea on the eBay thing. To bad if you read you would have realized it has to be registered and insured for the past year. Typical, read the headline and nothing else and come to a great conclusion like yours….. I really don’t know why people are upset, it is another step towards achieving a better, greener world, but no one wants to pay for it or do anything about it and if they do they’ll complain about wasting taxing payer money. Where else is it going to come from?
If you think about it it replaces at least a million cars, at about say at least 2.5 miles per gallon savings and the average mileage per year according to the AAA is 12,000 miles. So your on average saving 60 gallons per car per year. So 60,000,000 gallons a year. At $4 a gallon, your looking at saving $240,000,000 a year roughly….Then according to the KBB and AAA, a car has a duration of normal use for 10-15 years. Well times 240,000,000 to 10yrs or 15yrs you get about 2.4 Billion to 3.6 Billion in savings. So total cost is 4.5 billion to do all of this plus interest…. So for a little over maybe 900 million plus interest, we’ll sell a lot more cars, get a million clunkers off the road and produce not a substantiation amount less but a decent amount less of carbon emissions.
But hey, we spend a billion every two weeks in Iraq is it?……Lets cry about this 4.5 Billion investment on our kids futures and say that Obama is ruining the USA.
Conservatives & Republicans these days……
Report this comment
KC
June 11th, 2009
2:28 am
wait I amsorry, my numbers are wrong. For a $4,500 voucher you must get a car that gets at least 13 mpg more….Shoot,we’ll looks like my numbers would work out a lot better with this figure… Almost seems like we would gain A LOT from this proposal……
Report this comment
GA Lender
June 11th, 2009
9:39 am
Equitable bid was a credit bid, or in this case, an under bid by lender related entity. Lenders, just like RE developers, form single asset entities to hold REO. Under bids can happen for a variety of reasons like tax implications or the ability to sue for deficiency later. Too much focus by press on the 56 cents aspect, but that does not establish a “market” value. Doubtful that Lender can get out whole upon disposition, but they will have an opportunity to properly list the property and give investors time to scrutinize the rent roll and inspect the property to make an educated offer. Availability of debt for a purchaser will be the big stumbling block in selling the asset, or any large RE asset these days.
Crescent bankruptcy restructure certainly is a sign of the times, but Phipps plaza will get built with no hitches. Crescent is the Sponsor of the project, but as the article indicates there is always a separatly capitalized entity formed to develop a project of this scope. Additionally, in almost all construction loans, equity is injected prior to debt, and Lender will honor their commitment to finish the project out to protect their interest and future ability to get repaid.
Report this comment
Wilbert News Strategies on behalf of Harold Dawson Jr.
June 11th, 2009
5:46 pm
Here’s a statement from Harold Dawson Jr., president and CEO of The Dawson Co. It has been posted by Tony Wilbert of Wilbert News Strategies.
The Dawson Company is proud of our involvement at Lindbergh City Center, where we have been involved for 10 years. Our development there, eon, is an award-winning multifamily project and a key element of the urban mixed-use development. That said, The Dawson Company is truly disappointed with the state of the real estate market and its negative impact upon eon. Success in the real estate market is largely based on timing. Unfortunately our timing with the eon development in partnership with MARTA, was not perfect. As part of its commitment to Lindbergh City Center, we attempted to restructure its loan agreement with the lenders on eon. The Dawson Company offered to put more money into the development, but the lenders, JPMorgan Chase and Regions Bank, rejected the offer. As a result, they have begun the foreclosure process on eon.
MARTA has invested over $100 million in the revitalization of the Lindbergh area and has been an outstanding partner. Lindbergh is a shining example of what can be achieved through public/private collaboratives; it is how the city of Atlanta was built. Award-winning for its green carbon footprint-reducing construction, attainable entry-level pricing, and aesthetically unique design that complements and respects the surrounding neighborhoods, eon is centerpiece of that vision as the first ownership opportunity at transit oriented development. eon is much larger than a condo loan; it is part of a larger neighborhood vision coming to fruition.
Despite this experience, we remain committed to the redevelopment of urban infill communities in Atlanta and beyond through our ability to create mixed-use, mixed-income, transit-oriented development. Currently, The Dawson Company, in partnership with Carter Real Estate, is continuing its legacy of excellence in urban redevelopment with The Banks, a 17.9 acre mixed-use development located in Cincinnati, Ohio. We are hopeful we will be able to move forward with the remaining development at Lindbergh City Center when market conditions improve. We also remain committed to developing additional award-winning residential development at Lindbergh City Center in collaboration with MARTA and the surrounding neighborhoods when the market and economy improves.
—
Harold Dawson, Jr., President & CEO, The Dawson Company
Report this comment
NASCAR Stays Relevant With A Pit Stop In The Apple « Sports Marketing and PR Roundup
June 11th, 2009
9:18 pm
[...] goods store to give ticket discounts on expired items…the AJC has a great piece on the business for success model created by the Atlanta Braves…and the KC Star has an interesting look at the media secrecy policies being installed by new [...]
Report this comment
dmac
June 12th, 2009
7:03 am
Since Obama became president, Isakson has generally reverted back to his moderate self. However, this nonsense about issuing stock certificates is the kind of crack-pot thinking that I’d expect from Tom Price, Lynn Westmoreland, or Dr. Phil G.
Report this comment
Power Breakfast: NCR, Coke, Delta, foreclosure, digital TV …
June 12th, 2009
7:20 am
[...] See full article [...]
Report this comment
legalbeaglenot
June 12th, 2009
6:44 pm
the class of 2009 will be called the forgotten class. pretty much every major law firm has either rescinded or delayed start dates for 2009. in fact, a lot will be starting the same year as graduates of 2010. some of the worst offenders have been large shops like Fish and Richardson. they waited until now to tell 1/3 of their class that their offer has been revoked. the market is dead and they waited until these grads had already turned down other offers, till the market was flooded with out of work IP attorneys, and just then said, yeah, we dont want you. talk about pathetic.
unfortunately, their story is not unique. some of the top law firms in the world are delaying starts, offering stipends for people to do pro bono or public service work.
Report this comment
Unperson
June 13th, 2009
1:15 pm
the premise of your column is faulty–in fact there has been massive unemployment for law school grads for several years now. It is not just a recent thing.
But now it is affecting even the higher ranked schools. And since you media types only pay attention to the elite part of the profession, and ignore the lower ranked schools and the fate of their grads, the oversupply in the profession is finally being shoved in your face.
Very few lawyers or grads will talk to you without anonymity. Why not come to some internet sites that talk about the dark side of the legal profession?
http://jdrefuge.ipbfree.com/
http://www.jdunderground.com/forum.php
temporaryattorney.blogspot.com/
Report this comment
Alton E. Drew
June 14th, 2009
10:02 am
My advice to these graduates is to do what a good friend of mine did in Florida. Take any clinicals and internships that will help you learn the logistics of practice. Go pass the bar and then hang out your shingle. Don’t tell me you can’t do it, especially if you want to eat.
Alton E. Drew
http://www.altondrew.com
Report this comment
Steve
June 14th, 2009
2:50 pm
I read the report where CCE’s CEO John Brock is the fourth highest paid executive in Atlanta. I happened to work with a number of CCE employees at the local level over the years and recently many of them were laid off. Since the layoffs Coke’s customer service has hit rock bottom and the attention to detail and knowledge of products is non-existent.
How can Mr. Brock justify his salary by laying off people with 15 – 30 years experience in Coke’s business to only replace them with less caring employees, who might cost a lot less in salary but way more in qualitative costs?
Report this comment
20 Greedy Scammers
June 14th, 2009
4:47 pm
I have banned Coke (went to Pepsi)from my house for over a year due to the ripoff pay the board gives big executives at Coke. Now I will boycott the other greedy scammers of consumer money (WE pay for perks). There is NO exec in this country that deserves more than $5 mil for their services. I urge EVERYONE to boycott the following companies products. Oh. I forgot , the thieves at Ga Power have us over a barrel don’t they? Perhaps we should clean house at the PSC!!!
Rank Name Company Total compensation
1 Neville Isdell Coca-Cola Co. $23,132,324
2 Muhtar Kent Coca-Cola Co. $19,628,585
3 Richard H. Anderson Delta Air Lines Inc. $17,442,655
4 John F. Brock Coca-Cola Enterprises Inc. $11,927,626
5 Daniel P. Amos Aflac Inc. $10,783,232
6 Edward H. Bastian Delta Air Lines Inc. $10,774,131
7 Francis S. Blake Home Depot Inc. $9,244,533
8 David M. Ratcliffe Southern Co. $8,132,120
9 James M. Wells III SunTrust Banks Inc. $8,091,887
10 Martin Richenhagen AGCO Corp. $7,695,951
11 Stephen E. Gorman Delta Air Lines Inc. $7,617,930
12 Steven A. Cahillane Coca-Cola Enterprises Inc. $7,072,327
13 Alexander Cummings Coca-Cola Co. $6,728,738
14 Howard S. Cohen BlueLinx Holdings Inc. $6,697,030
15 Edward R. Muller Mirant Corp. $6,061,769
16 Gary Fayard Coca-Cola Co. $6,041,767
17 Irial Finan Coca-Cola Co. $6,031,825
18 Jose Octavio Reyes Coca-Cola Co. $5,921,323
19 Michael H. Campbell Delta Air Lines Inc. $5,908,949
20 Glen W. Hauenstein Delta Air Lines Inc. $5,906,525
Anyone want to guess how many Cokes that have to be sold to recover that outrageous EIGHTY SIX & ONE HALF MILLION DOLLARS top honchos are paid???? Want to guess how many laid off employees could be rehired for all that money???? Damn thieves!!!!
Report this comment
Mark
June 14th, 2009
5:36 pm
Nice article and info I find useful. I am filing papers this week to start a consulting business that gives corporate board compensation committees comparables for executive pay.
Report this comment
Joel M. Koblentz
June 14th, 2009
5:47 pm
Remember, it is each company’s board of directors that sets executive compensation. If you are not a shareholder, you are not in the game. So, if one thinks executive pay for any company is out of bounds, be a shareholder and let your voice be heard by your company’s board of directors and its compensation committee. This should/will be easier under the forthcoming proposed SEC governance guidelines.
To criticize executive compensation, one must offer an alternative for executives leading these companies, many complex and global.
A few questions for consideration, among many…
Will great leaders be attracted or remain at these companies with lower compensation?
How will shareholders reward exceptional performance and penalize the substandard. And, how does/ should a board measure/weigh all the components of CEO and executive performance?
What will be the cost, including disruption, of replacing company leaders?
How will the markets react to the risk of leadership unknowns?
Report this comment
Glenn H.
June 14th, 2009
10:19 pm
Base pay for all executives unless you meet sales, expense and profit goals. No profit, no bonus. No more stock options. I know the saying that you can’t get talent unless you use stock options. You can hire people off the street to lose money and not pay them very much.
Report this comment
Jerry
June 15th, 2009
5:52 am
Coca Cola pays its executives more than they deserve compared to the other workers. I will not be bringing Coke products into my home!
Report this comment
drago
June 15th, 2009
7:09 am
Please say it again Joel M. Koblentz. Its up to the shareholders and board of directors that decides compensation at public traded companies.
Report this comment
Mike
June 15th, 2009
7:33 am
Lifetime Coke drinker has just had his last coke and I’m still smiling…
Report this comment
Gayla
June 15th, 2009
7:57 am
This is what I consider the ugly side of democracy and capitalism. Like it or not, this is how our society has evolved and unless we collectively seek to make some major cultural changes, this will never stop. It’s not about the freedom to pursue the American dream anymore, it’s about fair play when the american tax payers have to start picking up the bill for the bail out of for profit companies. The question is…would these exectutives do any better or worse at their job is there salaries were 5 or six figures? Perhaps it would bring off their mansions and yachts and back down to earth with the rest of us. I am sure many of these executives do great things with their money as well by supporting charities, but in the end…it’s just not fair.
Report this comment
Ry
June 15th, 2009
4:25 pm
Gayla, yes it would make a difference. I am not an exec, but do know that most work an exhorbitant number of hours and are under alot of stress. If their pay is cut significantly, and they work less hours because it is not worth 70-80 hours a week, the company will not perform as well. Have you thought about what would happen if these execs (the good ones) left companies? When the companies fail, how many more employees will lose their jobs. This is about the free market. Let the market and the shareholders decide what pay is fair. If it is not fair, the shareholders of the company have the right to change that, not the government.
Report this comment
slimpickens
June 15th, 2009
4:26 pm
When companies are paying this kind of money, you know their goods and services are priced way too high. I think we should all quit doing business with them. As a matter of fact, I haven’t drank a coke product in the last year and I doubt I ever have another.
Report this comment
Whine too much
June 15th, 2009
4:30 pm
All of you who are talking about fair really have no idea what you are talking about. As long as the companies are owned by the people and not by the government, then the top execs should make what ever the shareholders deem “fair”. And for coca cola fair is 86mil, who are you to argue against that when you have no stake or knowledge in how the company is run. Capitalism is not fair, nor should it be.
Report this comment
Tom
June 15th, 2009
4:34 pm
Hey, Whine too much, if you really believe that shareholders have a significant influence in determining executive comp, then your candy-cane train to Fairyland is about to leave the station. If you really want executives who are responsive to the shareholders, then make derivative suits much easier to maintain and win.
Report this comment
reservoirDAWG
June 15th, 2009
4:35 pm
I’m having a coke right now.
Report this comment
Pat
June 15th, 2009
4:36 pm
Agree with “Whine”….Compare the average American who makes $60K/year with a poor person in Sudan or Darfur who makes 6 dollars per year—-What’s “fair” about that. It’s all relative and a lot of class envy.
Report this comment
RT
June 15th, 2009
4:43 pm
Interesting that people are finally paying attention. I like the people who say they are not drinking coke any more. It’s why I drive a Toyota too!
Report this comment
Dan
June 15th, 2009
4:43 pm
Just for a little perspective, I worked at a company for 10 years, revenues of about $30B per year and about 100K employees. A co-worker was complaining about a $10M bonus the CEO received one year, (now keep in mind bonuses are intended to drive positive behavior), I then asked what if the company gave you a $100 extra in your annual bonus. Of course she said it would be insulting. Of course. The moral of the story being if you have a leader that motivates and makes sound economic decisions the money is better spent on him/her than giving $100 to every employee which would only tick them off
Report this comment
clyde
June 15th, 2009
4:55 pm
Only in their own minds are CEO’S worth the money they’re paid.Many of them presided over companies they ruined and still they walked off with huge chunks of money.They’re scamming their shareholders.
Report this comment
Dan
June 15th, 2009
4:57 pm
So those people not drinking coke any more (which is exactly how capitalism should work), what are you drinking? Unless it is tap water you are probably supporting the same behavior you find distasteful somewhere else.
Report this comment
Dan
June 15th, 2009
5:08 pm
No stock options? So you would rather the company pay all of the salary instead of letting the market pick up the tab to reward a good job? Precisely why that average $60K person isn’t entrusted to such decesions
Report this comment
Bill
June 15th, 2009
5:16 pm
I have a simple question. If your performance was unsatisfactory at your present job would you be terminated?
The companies that 20 Greedy Scammers mentions all have considerable debt, most have downsized their workforces and their stock is in the toilet.
The facts are ugly. I don’t believe the US has a moral compass anymore. It’s a pity. What was once the strongest country on the planet has become one filled with greed.
Report this comment
Atlanta Native
June 15th, 2009
5:49 pm
Someone has to make lots of money so makers of high end items can stay in business and pay their employees. So that servers at nice restaurants have someone to serve, etc. We need the wealthy to purchase things we make, stay at resorts that employ us, buy the first class seats, buy the jets, ad nauseum.
I do not see this type of discord about athlete’s salaries.
Also, Mr. Unger do not use the MEDIAN pay. Most people do not know what a median is (I know some of you do) so they think it is the average pay (which 20 Greedy scammers’ list makes clear is not the case).
As for not drinking Coke – did you not already know that $1.46 for 16 oz of fizzy sugar water was a rip-off to begin with? They deserve the money for hoodwinking us all. I mean, come on, they couldn’t just switch from cane sugar to high fructose corn syrup when cane sugar prices went up, they played bait and switch with the spurious “New Coke” deal. Sneaky, but brilliant.
What people do not truly understand is the scale of things in the US and the world. It is hard to step back and realize the breadth of product infiltration. Think about the convenience store nearest you. How many Coca-Cola products are there? How many convenience stores are in your locality? State? The US? The world? How about grocery stores and the like? Now move on to fast food chains. Chain restaurants, privately owned restaurants. Ballfields from Pop Warner and little league on up through to the major leagues in the US. Now thing world wide sports, soccer, cricket, etc. Vending machines. Airports. It never ends. Is it beginning to sink in on the amount of colored sugar syrup these guys sell? They manage to keep us convinced that we need to suck this stuff down with at least on meal a day. Their salary is a pittance in comparison.
PS Do this with jewelry stores and explain to me why diamonds are so valuable. They aren’t.
The free market sets their salaries. If they made a deal with the devil and took stimulus funds, (probably based on an earlier deal with the devil to increase their worth at the expense of the shareholders) we have a right to monitor the financials, including executive pay. If not, then we do not.
If something is going to happen, what we need is shareholder derivative suits. Sue the CEO’s who intentionally hid risky loans for fraud. The victories will be few in the end, but the specter of the expensive suit defense and the victories will keep them thinking (how to cover their tracks, in some cases) about what they do and who their allegiance.
Report this comment
Atlanta Native
June 15th, 2009
5:59 pm
“to whom their allegiance is owed” Sorry.
Also – when is the last time someone complained so much about how much Brad and Angelina make? What profit Rhianna made off of “Umbrella”? Simon Cowell’s multi-millions? How long has it been since the “Friends” crew demanded $1 million/episode each? Why are they not demonized by the media and politicians for making so much unneeded money? Why not have caps on their salaries? Hmmmm.
Report this comment
Kevin
June 15th, 2009
6:40 pm
No we should not this is Usa not Russia we a republic if people forget….of course schools say we not….if look in bill of rights n the const. government not supose run auto companys n banks that not what foundin fathers stated in the bills.We free to have rights to spend what have to make money for Me and U n if people stop listen to the papers are Ajc Oh the evil rich did it u wrong
Report this comment
JoeV
June 15th, 2009
6:56 pm
Nail meet hammer.
Well done Atlanta Native.
Report this comment
Tom
June 15th, 2009
6:58 pm
Why focus on business exec pay? how come hollywood gets a free pass from criticism or professional sports players or musicians??? If you use the entertaintment word as a defense its no different from you choosing to see their movie or concert vs choosing to use a company’s particular product (whose CEO gets paid whatever). With Obama in office, seems that class warfare is creeping in as is the attack on anything capatilism (yet, Hollywood gets a free pass…hmmm. oh yea, they’re all liberals..my bad).
Report this comment
vuduchld
June 15th, 2009
7:00 pm
Not one of these executives listed are worth the compensation they’re receiving. At the end of the day it is the front line worker and shareholder who keeps the company moving. Why should any Delta executive receive compensation? If they threaten to go somewhere else if they’re not compensated then I say: SHOW THEM THE DOOR. I could care less about their work days or stress. These companies laid off employees why should these scumbag execs be rewarded for failing!?
Report this comment
gatorman770
June 15th, 2009
7:17 pm
I have no problem with corporate executives being compensated up to 5 million or so base yearly salary, but all bonus and golden parachutes should be based on positive growth of the company including growth in American jobs and income to the stock holders.
What really chaps my buns is when a CEO leaves a company (either forced out or otherwise) with a 100 million dollar golden parachute and the stock is worth less than half of what was worth when he/she took the job of CEO. That what the government needs to get control of.
Report this comment
Larry
June 15th, 2009
7:23 pm
Yes, they are overpaid. Just as are Sports stars and celebrities. If you want to cut executive pay, then cut sports salaries and actors/singers/celebrities pay.
Report this comment
Why all the wealth envy?
June 15th, 2009
7:26 pm
Wow, Obama has done a great job bringing about the wealth envy crowd and vilifying corporate executives. For the person who switched to Pepsi over Coke, what do you think Pepsi pays their executives? About the same as Coke does. If you say you don’t care about what they’ve done to get there, then you aren’t a very rational person. It’s pathetic how much people are jealous of other successful people but never seem to blame themselves for anything.
Report this comment
the evil rich
June 15th, 2009
7:40 pm
It is NOT the government’s job to set pay/compensation rates. Having said that, anybody that takes taxpayer money SHOULD answer to the taxpayers. Compensation should be based on results, and NOT poor ones!
Report this comment
Schuyler
June 15th, 2009
7:47 pm
First we need to reform shareholder voting. Shareholders ballots are a farce because huge blocks of stock are held by giant mutual fund managers like Fidelity, and Franklin Funds. These fund managers seek to get pension management and other business from companies, so of course they vote their shares in favor of whatever management wants. This means they vote in favor of whorey directors who vote for any pay raise the greedy executives want. Any mutual fund seeking business from management should be disqualified for shareholder voting. Then the SEC should require that all companies ask shareholders to at least hold an advisory vote on executive compensation.
Report this comment
legalbeaglenot
June 15th, 2009
8:19 pm
the problem with these boards is that they are usually insiders. for gods sake, king and spalding had a powerful board seat and they were coke’s own law firm. wonder how many millions were lost in frivilous litigation and useless transactional work because of that.
Report this comment
Stick In The Mud
June 15th, 2009
9:22 pm
What rankles people the most is that CEO pay is not linked to performance: heads I win, tails you lose thats the way it works. Bob Nardelli nearly destroyed Home Depot but he walked away with more than 200 million and went to work destroying Chrysler. The same pattern is being repeated over and over again. The game is rigged and the people have figured out that rank and file workers and shareholders are the only ones not in on the trick. I hope the government steps in becaise the vaunted “free market” has failed over and over again to check and correct itself. Unbridled capitalism has failed in almost every area and brought the world to the brink of economic collapse.Long live Karl Marxx!
Report this comment
Rob
June 15th, 2009
9:36 pm
I think some people are really missing the point. Atheletes and celebrities are not making millions while rank and file employees are being laid off, losing their job, spouses, minds.
When American employees suffer due to poor company performance it is extremely unreasonable to be paying executives $500 K+ per month and at the same time be laying off employees making 2, 3 or $4,000 per month.
I really don’t understand how these “executives” can live with themselves racking up millions while “their” employees lose everything. THAT IS NOT AMERICAN.
Many executives have opted to be paid one dollar per year until their companies return to profitability. There was a time when people didn’t expect to be paid unless they earned it. That is American.
Report this comment
Chris Broe
June 17th, 2009
12:14 pm
Kiplinger left out the more interesting symptoms of recession mania:
* Fewer mimes are trying to escape their boxes. They seem to be content to stay exactly where they are in these hard times.
* Local dog pounds finding fewer lost pets. More dogs are taking refuge under hillbilly porches. Reports from rural alabama say that the criteria defining a redneck has been raised from seven dogs under a porch to 13.
* In addition to installing more “ten items or less” lanes, grocery stores now have shoplifter-only lanes. Instead of “paper or plastic”, the bagboys now ask, “Probation or Community service, sir?”.
* Plumbers are experiencing a golden age as more people try to save money by not flushing. This coming at a time when Charmin has introduced a mega-roll (4 rolls in one), and kelloggs has added another scoop to make a total of three scoops of raisins to their cereal.
* Fewer hunters have economists saying that the only thing americans have to fear are deers themselves.
The exact same symptoms appeared during the great depression so hang on america.
Report this comment
Dan
June 17th, 2009
1:00 pm
Relatively speaking regulations imposed by market forces are consistent, objective and have a discernable motivation, the success of a business. Government regulations are subject to a myriad of motivations that are constantly changing and therefore impossible to predict making such institutions less worthy of investors money. The less interference the better, and any that exists needs to be devoid of political motivation
Report this comment
sd
June 17th, 2009
1:02 pm
I honestly believe that no “new” regulations are needed. Rather, we just need to “undo” the deregulation of the last 20 years. Specifically, we should repeal Grahm, Leach, Bliley which would reinstated Glass-Steagel. On top of that, we should repeal the legislation that deregulated teh derivatives markets in the early 1990s.
Thats it. All that needs to be done.
Report this comment
jbmlaw
June 17th, 2009
1:37 pm
Given that the government caused the housing bubble – (a) easy money at the Fed, (b) subsidized FNMA and FHLMC corrupting the market, (c) Congress raising FNMA and FHLMC loan limits to $700,000, and of course (d) the Carter era Community Reinvestment Act (which makes regulator-controlled privileges contingent on the quality of service to low- and moderate-income communitites) – I cannot envision a worse “cure” for the economy than more government intervention. I assume the cure will be just as well-conceived as the cause of the current problems.
Report this comment
cliff zeider
June 17th, 2009
1:45 pm
Hey, I wish we cound put more regulations on this Government. cz
Report this comment
hrw
June 17th, 2009
2:13 pm
What efforts the President is making on various issues we are facing appear to be ongoing disapprovals by those who don’t like it. We all are and have face some deep trouble times; and while we sit back and watch big companies get monies; many of thousands have lost their jobs and home, even the so called rich has to move into the soup lines. So we are all looking for a better day but I don’t think we will be getting any help from anyone on our personal troubles we all are havng. We are not going to be help out. We are on our own as tax payers and as things continue, many of us will dig deeper into our savings and our children might not reach college. Jobs are not surfacing as they once did. We are not moving in the right direction because we continue to be pull back from where we started. some body don’t want the President to acheive goals that he set; and we as the United States Citizens should want to live right and give the President a change because no body every questioned the former President when he made decisions and they did not treat him as they are treating President Obama. President Obama is the President and is due every respect. The more we all move toward making America right, no one can disagree with what we as citizens are doing. The more and the longer we continue to down our President, then, do we think that things will get better. I don’t think so! You all who are negative on the President, I asked that you all treat me fairly and be respectful to and about him. Let’s not let this economy make us less than Americans. You all be blessed!
Report this comment
bp
June 17th, 2009
2:24 pm
Can you say New World Order.
Report this comment
OBSUC
June 17th, 2009
2:41 pm
q#1–yes
q#2– no
Report this comment
hegelian71
June 17th, 2009
2:43 pm
way too much control… their existing levers of power were rendered useless in this fiasco, as well as Katrina, as well as the TRILLION dollars missing from the pentagon which was announced 1 day before 911 then swept under the rug oh so easily thereafter. Let the big companies fail, and the investors will buy them up at a true market price thereafter, but DONT let the govt buy them, then put US on the hook for billions of bailout dollars (IOU’s) just before systematically dismantling the company piece by piece…selling it to China and other countries… wake up people– this is crony capitalism and the FED is a bogus, PRIVATE entity only in existence since 1913…Noticeably enough, that is right before our BIGGEST depression in history, followed by systematic booms and bust cycles and we buy the bust cycle as a legit excuse to give them more power… Are we stupid or what..? This is the hegelian dialectic in action decade after decade…
Report this comment
Murphy
June 17th, 2009
3:02 pm
How about regulating Fannie Mae? They still allow 3.5% down payment, don’t they? That was the crux of the housing crisis.
One regulation of the mortgage industry is all that is required: demand 20% down payment, as used to be the norm.
Report this comment
RealityKing
June 17th, 2009
3:14 pm
If you need government for common sense then your in deep dodo no matter how well Obama reads from his teleprompter.
Report this comment
Alton E. Drew
June 17th, 2009
9:21 pm
Adding more regulation to the financial markets is like putting salt and pepper on roadkill. For the past two years, the government, the press, and the financial community have blamed the meltdown in the financial markets on consumers, particularly those who defaulted on sub-prime mortgage payments. In addition, data shows that the decline in our nation’s income has been due to declines in personal consumption and business investment in plant and equipment. Today’s financial regulatory restructuring plan, announced this afternoon by Mr. Obama, has no connection to economic growth. Creating a new consumer protection agency has nothing to do with boosting GDP or lowering the unemployment rate.
Alton Drew
http://www.altondrew.com
Report this comment
lilliepurcell
June 18th, 2009
12:58 am
If anyone has had any luck with any of these companies, could you please post it for the ones that cannot find one to work with you. We’ve almost lost once and just got a second chance that want last long so I need to get something done now, so if anyone knows the right number to call, i am sure a lot of people that hasn’t found them would appreciate it but check out http://obamamortgage2009.blogspot.com or obamamortgage2009.blogspot.com
Report this comment
The Truth
June 18th, 2009
10:07 am
The state of GA owes me over $4,000. I’m sure I will get it before the end of July. It will be a nice financial windfall!
Report this comment
JM
June 18th, 2009
10:07 am
I understand that state government had to cut jobs somewhere, but you would think they would cut them somewhere else other than the revenue department at what is their busiest time of year. This was just poor judgment and poor planning on the part of Governor Perdue and the others that lead up government in Georgia.
Report this comment
Tom
June 18th, 2009
10:20 am
This is one more example of why government is NOT a business. The myth that government should be run like a business does not consider the fact that governments HAVE to do things that no business would find attractive or profitable. If the world were fair (not that I think it is) then the State Department of Revenue should pay a “Late Refund Penalty” to each taxpayer that does not receive their refund in a timely manner.
Report this comment
reservoirDAWG
June 18th, 2009
10:28 am
I like it Tom.
Report this comment
ugacpa02
June 18th, 2009
10:33 am
I would not expect anything different. Tax collection will never be fair, easy, or equitable.
Report this comment
Base
June 18th, 2009
10:34 am
Failed Sonny and the goofy legislature don’t know what they are doing.
Report this comment
reservoirDAWG
June 18th, 2009
10:37 am
Does any government agency know what they are doing?
Report this comment
Frodo Baggins
June 18th, 2009
10:43 am
Okay Sonny, here’s the deal. Since you don’t have the “staff” to process refunds, it is reasonable to expect that you don’t have the “staff” to accept payments. So we’ll just hold on to our estimate payments until you complete “Job One.” If that presents yopu with a problem, then “Go Fish.”
Report this comment
Tom
June 18th, 2009
10:47 am
Nice financial windfall? Since when does the late receipt of repayment of an interest-free “loan” to the State constitute a “windfall”?
Report this comment
Anonymous
June 18th, 2009
11:04 am
It’s simple:
The longer Georgia holds onto our refund money, the more interest it makes on it.
To borrow from J.G. Wentworth: “It’s OUR money and we want it NOW!”
Report this comment
John
June 18th, 2009
11:10 am
I hope the Dept of Revenue plans on paying interest to the people with late refunds at the same interest rate that they charge us when we are late paying our taxes.
Report this comment
fair tax
June 18th, 2009
11:11 am
Tom for President.Frodo too. Ready for a tea party?
Report this comment
fair tax
June 18th, 2009
11:13 am
Obama Sin Laden. nuff said.
Report this comment
Peter
June 18th, 2009
11:14 am
It sounds like another class action lawsuit is in the making. Perhaps the Atlanta Water Dept. can give the Dept. of Revenue the names of some good defense attorneys.
Report this comment
Dave
June 18th, 2009
11:18 am
I was required to pay a penalty & interest for claiming vendor’s comp
on sales tax return that was one day late…..total over $600.00.
I filed my income tax return on April 13th & have been told it will be
mid-August before I should expect it. Looks like the State of GA thinks that’s ok…..as always the taxpayer is SOL.
Report this comment
Ed
June 18th, 2009
11:20 am
Sounds like there was a backroom meeting where the following was stated: “We don’t have the revenue coming in, so we’ll just keep the refund money for a while, bonus is the extra interest, and we’ll plan our layoffs in the Tax Division to give us a good excuse”.
Report this comment
lisaw
June 18th, 2009
11:24 am
This is unbelievable!!! I go to their web site everyday and they still have nothing in the system with my information. It got sent begining of April!! Maybe we will get in time to go school shopping.
Report this comment
SAR
June 18th, 2009
11:33 am
Yes, the state of Georgia has yet to refund me what is due in the form of my state income tax refund. I guess as a private, tax paying citizen I am not able to sue the state of Georgia for any late fees and penalties like they’d be able to sue me for if the situation was reversed. The AJC has a fromt page story on record breaking unemployment numbers in GA. Why not hire these folks to help the IRS? This is a great example of why we need less government and not more of it. The only thing the government is good at running is itself, into the ground.
Report this comment
Jane
June 18th, 2009
12:37 pm
We need a tax revolt. Why can’t we force a referendum to be put on the ballot and let the tax payers decide on a rollback and also a cap on taxes. The buffoons in government will never do what is right, they are only concerned with preserving their jobs and the power that comes with it.
Report this comment
The Truth
June 18th, 2009
1:33 pm
Wooohooo! I don’t care…I’M HAPPY!!! I have my $4,000 financial windfall from the state of GA tax refund coming soon! Yeah!!!
Report this comment
The Truth
June 18th, 2009
1:45 pm
Hey Tom…Don’t be a “hater” just because your jealous.
Report this comment
Mitch
June 18th, 2009
7:18 pm
So, you guys would have rather the state raised taxes to pay for staffers at the Dept of Revenue? I filed mine electronically in February and got it back in about 2 weeks. If you waited til April, and filed by paper, then evidently you didnt need it so bad and you can just wait. I dont want my taxes raised because you refuse to file electronically.
Report this comment
truth
June 18th, 2009
9:29 pm
Oxendine willget this corrected FAIR TAX
Report this comment
Bob
June 18th, 2009
11:09 pm
Maybe if some of those deadbeat legislators who are delinquent in paying their taxes paid them, some of the hard working citizens could get their refunds.
Report this comment
IrishForEver
June 18th, 2009
11:14 pm
Good luck to him. Where are they playing? Bring it to the northern burbs. Rent out high schools and watch the fans come out. Trekking downtown is what killed The Beat the first time.
Report this comment
IrishForEver
June 18th, 2009
11:15 pm
Enter your comments here
Report this comment
RK
June 18th, 2009
11:40 pm
Well, we’ve known for at least a year that he had an expansion team. It was reported that he is looking to build an 8500-seat soccer stadium in the next year, Irish. We’re not getting MLS anytime soon — if you want professional soccer in Atlanta, the Beat — along with Mexico v Venezuela next week and AC Milan v America next month — need to be supported.
Report this comment
MOTS
June 19th, 2009
12:06 am
No, the beat did very well when they were at Georgia Tech, it wasn’t the downtown thing. The whole league dried up around the same time, and by that time the Beat had moved to Morehouse’s stadium, and nobody knows where that is (West of Downtown).
Report this comment
Steph
June 19th, 2009
1:10 am
I sent in my tax papers mid-February and I still have not gotten my tax return back.
Report this comment
Lundy
June 19th, 2009
8:16 am
The headline/link for this story on the home page reads “Biz Beat: Banks horde TARP funds”
horde /hɔrd, hoʊrd/ Pronunciation [hawrd, hohrd]
noun, verb, hord⋅ed, hord⋅ing.
–noun 1. a large group, multitude, number, etc.; a mass or crowd: a horde of tourists.
2. a tribe or troop of Asian nomads.
3. any nomadic group.
4. a moving pack or swarm of animals: A horde of mosquitoes invaded the camp.
–verb (used without object) 5. to gather in a horde: The prisoners horded together in the compound.
I think you wanted to use hoard.
hoard /hɔrd, hoʊrd/ Pronunciation [hawrd, hohrd]
–noun 1. a supply or accumulation that is hidden or carefully guarded for preservation, future use, etc.: a vast hoard of silver.
–verb (used with object) 2. to accumulate for preservation, future use, etc., in a hidden or carefully guarded place: to hoard food during a shortage.
–verb (used without object) 3. to accumulate money, food, or the like, in a hidden or carefully guarded place for preservation, future use, etc.
Report this comment
Clark-Atlanta University
June 19th, 2009
8:26 am
It wasn’t actually Morehouse’s stadium, it was Clark-Atlanta University’s which is on MLK about 5 blocks west of the Georgia Dome
Report this comment
tso
June 19th, 2009
8:33 am
well, i guess your right w/the spelling stuff BUT they (the banks) can be compared to a swarm of animals come to think of it. mosquitoes at that! they should have been exterminated and those that fell should have fallen instead of being given money. boy am i sick of this administration… im sick of seeing my friends loose their jobs they’ve had or 20+ years. and folks losing their houses… there needs to be another ‘change’ all right. the folks running the country now are running it into the ground and are destroying America. Obama is a freaking liar. im glad all that voted for him are having to experience it also… thanks for nothing you guys, whiy dont you stay home nxt time sicne your votes were apparently not thought thru.. i mean wtf? where is all that money at any way? transparency my back side. it sure is not creating jobs and keeping business still operating. wake up people
Report this comment
TRUTH
June 19th, 2009
8:47 am
TSO, uhhh, although you’re use of the word “horde” matginally applies to the banks, your assessment of President Obama is way off base. As I recall, and I’m sure those of you who would like to remain in denial recall, it was the response of the sitting President, G. Bush (43), and that incredibly genius, Sec. Treasuty Paulson who pushed the TARP through WITH NO OVERSIGHT. I looked at the application because I was astounded that it was only 2 pages in length. What IS transparent, is that the previous administrations efforts were designed to benefit the banks, not bring them back in line and cause the flow of credit again. The current President has mobilized his administration to focus on many “messes” created by W., and within a realtively short period of time, has started the process of a turnaround. He clearly stated that it would get considerably worse before its gets better and that is proving to be the case. You will continue to have your opinions and aarguments over how this is progressing, but that is our right afforded by our constitution. Jumping on President Obama for an inherited problem and his not having been in office 6 months yet is ridiculous. W. was there for 8 years and this kind of rhetoric was never stated by the right. The power has shifted back to the people and although we’re all taking it on the chin right now, we’re certain that our country will be revived and return to its prominence for all of us. You can wake up from your delusions, and join the rest of the country…
Report this comment
Admiral Yamamoto
June 19th, 2009
8:57 am
Heh heh. Your e-mail address is hunger@ajc.com. You should work in the food section. Ha! I slay me!
Report this comment
tso
June 19th, 2009
9:17 am
of course its bush’s fault. boo hoo for obama cause he has inherited this big problem… whine, whine whine.. all that crap is ‘obamaology’.. meaning you just keep drinking that kool-aid while walking to the edge of a cliff… it wll all be over in 4 years.
the white house, o-bamA and the media use Bush a scapegoat… its all crap…quit blaming bush for o-bam-a’s failures… he’s in over his head and a pathetic leader….. oh and bush isn’t in office anymore, get over it.. cant wait to see how he deals w/ the gargoyle from north Korea… and the saddest from iran… he’s just going to close his eyes, go to some stupid dinner party that cost YOU thousands of dollars in tax money and pretend it will go away.
what we should do is go Hiroshima on all of them and shut’em up… jezzz, he needs to grow a pair…. i mean im a girl and mine are bigger than his… oh and kool aid is ready
Report this comment
TBizzle
June 19th, 2009
9:24 am
@ TRUTH – The power has shifted back to the people? By people do you mean the government trying to control every aspect of our lives? Think about everything Obama has done or is trying to do:
- Named tax cheat after tax cheat to important political positions
- His idea of “change” was to keep the Clinton Administration
- Fired the GM CEO
- Set pay limits on banks receiving TARP funds
- Trying to set pay limits on executives
- Trying to have socialized healthcare
- Forced Chrysler into bankruptcy
- Being an apologist when he visits foreign nations
- Trying to give terrorists equal rights
- Limiting the line of questioning from the media
- Not providing enough transparency on his “stimulus” plan
- Not providing transparency on the White House visitor log
- Spending too much time on being a celebrity and not enough time on being a President
As far as the problem the country faces now, these were not solely from the last eight years. The issues at hand have piled up for decades and are now showing their face.
If I recall President Bush tried to push for greater oversight of Fannie/Freddie but faced severe opposition from Barney Frank, the same Barney Frank who is now the Chairman of the House Financial Services Committee!
EVERYONE is to blame for the current mess we are in. There are very few innocent parties, despite the fact that the President has completely forgotten to bring up personal responsibility during his daily blame storming sessions.
Report this comment
derick
June 19th, 2009
9:32 am
George Bush was in office for 8 yrs. He did nothing his last 4 years in office. Gave away the first TARP money with no strings attached. How stupid was he for that. He let his administration manipulate him like puppet. Everyone from national security to finance told him a bunch of crap and he went with it. How do you give away the first Tarp with no restrictions. That money is still UNaccounted for. Maintaining status quo is not getting the job done. Where we you commenting on all the job losses before JANUARY. Did you think it was going to stop all of sudden after BUSH left office. When BUSH was in office, how many millions of JOBS were lost doing his last year in office. But you expect jobs to all of a sudden start hiring again in 4 months of the Obama administration. These business plan were in effect long time ago to cut jobs. They didn’t get this idea two or three months ago. L
Report this comment
Dale B. Halling
June 19th, 2009
5:39 pm
Obama’s Proposed Sweeping Financial Regulation: What Can We Learn from SOX (Sarbanes Oxley)
Sarbanes Oxley is very expensive: including enormous direct ($80 Billion per year) and indirect costs to our economy and to innovation. It has not met its goals of improving the quality of auditing or preventing fraud. Nor have any of the benefits of these costs materialized. Public companies have not experienced lower capital costs, investors have not been protected from fraud and there has not been faster economic growth due to more efficient allocation of resources. The effects of this law include fewer public companies, fewer companies going public, more companies choosing to go public in foreign markets, absurdly high auditing expenses and a significant decrease in risk capital.
Interestingly, a number of econometric studies of the effectiveness of the SEC and securities laws before and after Sarbanes Oxley have shown no net effect on investor returns. According to Liu et al. “we find that the conditional mean and variance of monthly total real stock returns were no different during 1940-2007 than during 1871-1925. Consequently, recent claims by high ranking government officials that stock market “stabilization” requires increased federal regulation implies greater faith in this method of protecting investors than is supported by the evidence.” What these studies do not account for is the lost opportunity costs due to all the securities laws. At least in the case of Sarbanes Oxley, the opportunity costs most likely far outweigh the direct costs.
For more information see:
Sarbanes Oxley – The Medicine is worse than the Disease: Part 1 Background (http://hallingblog.com/2009/06/17/sarbanes-oxley-%e2%80%93-the-medicine-is-worse-than-the-disease-part-1-background/)
Sarbanes Oxley – The Medicine is worse than the Disease: Part 2 (http://hallingblog.com/2009/06/18/sarbanes-oxley-%e2%80%93-the-medicine-is-worse-than-the-disease-part-2/)
Report this comment
Big Fan
June 19th, 2009
6:53 pm
Fitz is truly a great guy. He coached one of my boys. I know we’ll be going to some of the games.
Report this comment
Brad Steel
June 20th, 2009
11:43 am
This guys is right. The “green shoots” crowd watch too much CNBC and listen to too many politicians who get an uptick if you buy their upbeat rhetoric.
The bad news far out-weighs the good news right now. Seeing it any other way just doesn’t stand up to the facts.
Report this comment
Charles Boarden
June 21st, 2009
7:59 am
John Rice can stick his opinion where the sun don’t shine. The economy is improving a lot.
Charles Boarden
charles__boarden@homedepot.com
Home Depot – Atlanta, GA
Report this comment
Charles Boarden
June 21st, 2009
8:05 am
That place is up his ass.
Report this comment
The truth hurts
June 21st, 2009
8:19 am
Of course this guy from GE can’t see any improvement …He is one of the battalions of useless beauracracy at a company that has been run into the ground by its finance division. GE is so big that it will take a lot of recovery to move the needle and start looking healthy again.And you know what ? This guy will be one of the last one to know. With so many direct reports and butt kissing corporate climbers wanting to move into his office, it would be amazing if anyone ever told him the truth ,the real truth , about anything. He has an opinion. Surprisingly , that opinion is shared by all his underlings that tell him what he wants to hear.But if he would actually meet and listen to real customers (and front line employees) he would know that something is stirring out here away from the office that he has imprisoned himself in.
No ,2006 won’t return anytime soon. But that was all an illusion anyway. GE had better rid themselves of this “easy money through finance” mindset and concentrate on their real business that make real products and real profits.John Rice (and others like him) want to make money without the hard work and effort that it requires through what amounts to respectable usury.The economy is coming back ,no matter what this guy says , because people are re-learning the lessons of thrift and saving.It will be slow ,but it is happening with mthematical certainty.
I had no idea that GE hired people this dumb.
Report this comment
Get a grip people
June 21st, 2009
12:17 pm
The economy is not improving and is only going to get worse people! Have any of you looked at housing numbers? Forclosures are taking a rest at the moment because the Obama “Socialist” party is telling Fannie and Freddie not to release hundreds of thousands of homes already taken back from banks to the market place. We have well over a million homes my friends that are sooner or later going to be released and put on the market which will further depress home prices across the board.
The housing atomic bomb got us into this nightmare and housing will bring us out folks. We are at least 2 years away from any semblence of stability. Another round of foreclosures both in Commerical and Residental is fast approaching.
All you fools who feel the economy is improving either don’t have a brain or are to busy watching reality TV and reading people magazine.
America once the “Land of the Free” know the home of the “whats the Gov’t giving me today”
Report this comment
John Rice's ass
June 21st, 2009
10:14 pm
Even from John Rice’s ass, the economy still sucks. And Charles Boarden is a clueless shelf-stocking peon.
Report this comment
Hsuowxko
June 22nd, 2009
7:25 am
AKFNkz comment1 ,
Report this comment
BG
June 22nd, 2009
2:07 pm
Thanks Obama!
Report this comment
JF McNamara
June 22nd, 2009
2:10 pm
Shouldn’t that be Thanks Bush? Wasn’t he the decider for an entire 8 year period before the economy tanked. Obama inherited the problems he made. You should thank Obama for stabilizing the situation.
Report this comment
jarvis
June 22nd, 2009
2:45 pm
What’s stable?
Report this comment
DJ
June 22nd, 2009
2:54 pm
What has Obama to do with this? You people are ignorant.
Report this comment
Yep
June 22nd, 2009
2:58 pm
It should be thanks Mr. Government official. All are to blame for our losses. We should implement term limits so that these pariahs are not allowed to flourish in Washington. We need less entitlement and more autonomy!!
Report this comment
c
June 22nd, 2009
2:58 pm
People like to blame which ever opposing leader is in office when things go to crap. However, Bush and Obama have had little to do with the economy (although the stimulus was a bad idea). If you want to point fingers, you should probably start with yourself. People were content with their 401k rising every year and it never occurred to them that the market needed to correct itself. If you look at historic trends it was easy to see we were on a bubble. Most did not believe that housing would be the bubble to pop, but it did. Now everyone wants to blame CEOs when if they had questioned practices all along and practiced hedging/risk management we would not be in as bad of a mess. If you want to point at a group it should be at the representatives on the financial committee. Economies are cyclical so there is no need for everyone to panic causing more chaos.
Report this comment
Eric
June 22nd, 2009
3:27 pm
Oxendine won’t get this corrected and the Fair Tax is never going to happen. We live in an anti-government, Republican state and they can’t get us our money. What a surprise, a bunch of hypocrites.
Report this comment
Kristin
June 22nd, 2009
3:31 pm
Thanks Alan Greenspan!
Report this comment
The Truth
June 22nd, 2009
3:42 pm
Who cares! I don’t need it because I’m gettin’ over $4,000 back from my 2008 tax return. Wooohooo!
Report this comment
YOUpayformybadchoices
June 22nd, 2009
3:50 pm
Think its high time the fare was increased. I’d take it a step further, and implement a pay for a far as you ride also, but that would get the bedwetters n homeless outraged. At least my bus route didn’t get cut, oh yeah, I live on the south side of town, NO wonder!!!
Report this comment
SaveOurRepublic
June 22nd, 2009
3:50 pm
Be ye not duped by the ponzi scam that is (smoke & mirrors) Wall $reet folks! Investments pegged to fiat currency (controlled by the Central Banking Cartel) will continue to falter (along side intentionally weakened currency like the U.S. dollar). Invest in tangible assets with intrinsic value like gold, precious metal coins. Be prepared when the dollar (& stock market) totally bottoms out!
Report this comment
amy
June 22nd, 2009
3:53 pm
Right on, C!
There needs to be an economics course that ALL high school kids should be required to take so they don’t turn out as ignorent as all of you. (Exept for C)
Report this comment
amy
June 22nd, 2009
3:55 pm
To “The Truth” you’re just getting YOUR money back, which you stupidly lent to the government tax free over the year 2008. Do a better job in your tax planning. The goal is to get as close to 0.00 back without owing any money. Geez!
Report this comment
BG
June 22nd, 2009
3:57 pm
NOBAMA
Report this comment
Peri
June 22nd, 2009
3:58 pm
As usual, the folks who can LEAST AFFORD the rate hike will be the people who will be most adversely affected and will pay the cost. Despite the rate hike, the buses and trains will STILL be late all the time and overly crowded most of the time, the buses, trains and stations will STILL be smelly and dirty, the stations will STILL be unsafe, and the drivers will STILL be rude and surly. Thanks for nothing, MARTA.
MARTA sucks!
Report this comment
jesse
June 22nd, 2009
4:00 pm
good any one did not loose their jod
Report this comment
Mark
June 22nd, 2009
4:00 pm
The fare increase is not worth it. Considering the average driver in the ATL drives 50 miles per day @ $2.50/ GAL = $5/per day (25 miles/ gal). The $1 savings per day is not worth giving up the convenience of traveling in your own vehicle. Marta is already inefficient and does not meet the needs of the city . This $.25 in greed will ruin the system.
Report this comment
Ben
June 22nd, 2009
4:08 pm
Yeah, I get why they would do this financially but in the end, the numbers just don’t add up to making it worth it.
Report this comment
DJ
June 22nd, 2009
4:09 pm
All these comments and BG still doesn’t get it.
Report this comment
Reality
June 22nd, 2009
4:16 pm
“a quarter of U.S. employers have eliminated matching contributions to employee 401(k) retirement plans since SEPTEMBER to save money amid the economy’s downturn”
The blame Obama crowd only read headlines and chime in. I believe Mr. Obama took office in JAN.
Report this comment
The Truth
June 22nd, 2009
4:18 pm
Don’t be a hater Amy! You must be jealous! I have $4,000 coming my way and you probably had to pay out some money for your taxes. Refunds are a good thing! Everyone wants a refund when they file…nobody wants to pay on April 15th!
Report this comment
Nichole
June 22nd, 2009
4:20 pm
I purchase a discounted monthly card through my employer. As long as the cost is less than the our monthly parking plus additional gas expense, I’ll keep riding Marta. It’s convenient and I haven’t had any problems. Definitely less stress than the traffic around here.
Report this comment
Marta Evangelist
June 22nd, 2009
4:21 pm
25 cents is nothing…even the person working a minimum wage job can afford 50 cents more per day. By the way, it is easy to tell which bloggers (Peri) do not ride the system much. During the workweek the trains are almost always right on schedule and so are the buses. I know because I ride both everyday and choose to leave my car parked.
Report this comment
Roxy
June 22nd, 2009
4:22 pm
This is the point where I stop taking MARTA to work and start driving. It’s actually less expensive for me to drive, but wanted to help alleviate traffic and air quality issues by taking the train. Unfortunately, I can no longer afford to do that with a fare increase and will resume driving to work.
Report this comment
jct
June 22nd, 2009
4:23 pm
@Truth…you are truly an idiot. THe goal should be zero. Why would you want to give the government a $4,000 interest free loan. I would rather pay a small amount. I know how to save money so I need to loan the government my hard earned dollars during the year.
Methinks, this is why our country is in trouble. Most folks don’t have a grasp of basic finance.
Report this comment
Nichole
June 22nd, 2009
4:26 pm
WHO gets 25 miles/gal during city driving? I would pay more to park in our employee lots than I pay for a monthlly Marta Card. Add on the add’l $7 – 10/day in gas, Marta is a no-brainer for me and most of my co-workers. BTW – I don’t expect the trains to look or smell like the Ritz Carlton. I live in the REAL world – not a fantasy land.
Report this comment
Shanel
June 22nd, 2009
4:27 pm
Uh,Amy…you spelled ignorant wrong. You spelled except wrong as well.
Report this comment
Troglodyke
June 22nd, 2009
4:30 pm
I don’t ride MARTA except to the airport for flights once or twice a year, because it is simply not feasible based on the location of my job (I do carpool, though). I think $2 is a pittance to pay to ride pretty much anywhere it goes, and, despite what one poster thinks, the fare increase is not “greed.” It’s a necessary part of doing business. It was either raise the fare, or cut services and/or jobs.
And the benefits of riding are relative, so $2 may very well still beat the costs of owning a car (it’s not just gas prices).
Now, is MARTA inefficient? For some, yes. Does MARTA need lessons on how to manage money better? Yes. It’s a shame that a city of this size doesn’t have a better mass transit system. But in the grand scheme of things, $2 a ride is CHEAP.
Report this comment
Al
June 22nd, 2009
4:31 pm
I live in Dekalb and I use Marta everyday. When I pull into Marta, all you see is on the tags are Newton, Clayton, Gwinnett and etc. Dekalb and Fulton are the only ones paying for the use of the system, so why can’t fares go up for the people living outside of the counties. They are getting a break for nothing.
Report this comment
Peri
June 22nd, 2009
4:34 pm
Marta Evangelist: LOL. I actually happen to take MARTA every single day to my job at Emory. So don’t pretend you know something about me, based on a few sentences posted on an internet blog, okay? Good.
I still say that the rate increase is not worth it. It may NOT cause a huge affect MY finances, per se, but there are plenty of low-income and disabled people who ride MARTA who cannot afford another rate increase by MARTA for the cut rate services they offer.
Have a nice day!
Report this comment
janet
June 22nd, 2009
4:34 pm
2.00 is a bargain to travel anywhere in Metro Atlanta that is served by MARTA. Too bad MARTA is the only rail system serving a metropolitan area that is not funded by the state. Take Metro Atlanta out of Georgia and you don’t have an economic engine to drive the entire state economy.
Report this comment
The Truth
June 22nd, 2009
4:34 pm
@jct…So, you are telling me that if you found out you had a refund coming on April 15th you would not be happy becuase you overpaid the gov’t? You were happier staying flat or close to zero? Don’t tell me that you were hoping for a surprise refund, even a small one. OK, so I I overpaid the government and stumbled across an extra $4,000. It is a heck of a lot better than having to pay a bunch of money on April 15th. I see it as a forced savings plan.
Report this comment
Rob
June 22nd, 2009
4:35 pm
No, we just need to scrap this horrible system and start over.
Marta tries to compare it’s $2 price to New York but in New York you can get anywhere you want to go.
Just try to get to Buckhead at Peachtree & Piedmont on Marta, or a Braves game from Alpharetta. MARTA is a horrible system.
Why do we need buses running until 1am? How many people are on each bus at 1am?
Report this comment
Marta Evangelist
June 22nd, 2009
4:35 pm
Roxy – I challenge you to post what kind of car you drive, the general area of your home, and the general area of your office. Once you can do that, we can all evaluate together if this extra 50 cents round-trip will make public transportation more expensive than driving. It will be fun!
I understand Atlanta’s transit system does not work for everyone…that is why we need to invest in smart expansion. Its all about choices though…I choose to live in-town and I can take Marta or walk just about everywhere I need to go. I drove less than 3000 miles last year…including a driving trip to Tampa. If you choose to live in Gainesville, you probably got to drive 30,000 miles last year…that is your choice.
Report this comment
scooby
June 22nd, 2009
4:36 pm
If we could get money from Cobb and Gwinnett for the free hook-up to the system, this probably wouldn’t be necessary. MARTA’s real problem is those who don’t pay a dime for upkeep (the state and non-paying Metro counties).
Report this comment
Democrat Girl
June 22nd, 2009
4:39 pm
I ride MARTA 3-5 days a week,too. While I don’t expect it to “smell like the Ritz Carlton,” it could definately be cleaner. I have ridden the metro in several European cities and none are as unkempt as MARTA. So what does 25 cents more get the average rider? More dirty and late buses and trains. I agree with the poster who said that MARTA could do better.
To save money and wear and tear on my vehicle, I will continue to ride MARTA, though, and just suck it up.
Report this comment
Shanel
June 22nd, 2009
4:42 pm
The Truth: Sorry, that’s not logical thinking you have going on up there. You loaned your money out for free all year and you’re just happy as a clam to get it back interest free?… DON’T GO INTO BANKING!
Report this comment
Marta Evangelist
June 22nd, 2009
4:45 pm
Peri – I guess the drivers down at Emory are different from the ones I usually see on the northside…I usually get a smile or at least a nod. I’d be curious as to why you think the stations are unsafe…I use the system at all hours of the day and haven’t had a problem worse than loud music or someone asking for change.
Rob – I guess you are being serious?? Peachtree and Piedmont is one third of a mile from the Buckhead station. If that is too far two bus routes come (every 12 minutes during peak times) and would get you there in less than a minute.
Report this comment
Javahna
June 22nd, 2009
4:45 pm
Plenty of people ride MARTA at 1 am, Rob — or WOULD if MARTA ran all night like public transportation in MOST international cities. Believe it or not, not ALL people work 9-5. Maybe in YOUR little world they do, but in the REAL world,there are many people who work at Atlanta’s sports venues, hotels, etc. who work until 1, 2, 3 am, etc. and need to get home when their shifts end.
Report this comment
Puhleeze!
June 22nd, 2009
4:48 pm
The stations ARE unsafe! People have been robbed and murdered at MARTA stations. Are you kidding me? Do you know how many cars are burglarized at MARTA stations? I know someone, personally, whose car has been broken into TWICE at Kensington. Marta Evangelist, you must live in LaLa Land!
Report this comment
Ya Big Dummy
June 22nd, 2009
4:49 pm
The Truth- Check to see what Clark Howard says about giving the government an interst free $4000 loan. Geez.
Report this comment
The Truth
June 22nd, 2009
4:51 pm
Wouldn’t you rather have a refund instead of having to pony up some unexpected cash every year? Why do you have to be so jealous? I’m debt free with savings in the bank. Don’t tell me I don’t know how to handle money. Wow…another hater.
Report this comment
A.J. in Decatur
June 22nd, 2009
4:52 pm
Marta Evangelist,you must own stock in MARTA. “MARTA is great! MARTA is beautiful! MARTA is affordable! MARTA drivers (on the Northside, at least!) are just peachy-keen!” Arrrghhh (that’s the sound of me throwing up).
Report this comment
The Truth
June 22nd, 2009
4:57 pm
Hey Ya Big Dummy: Clark Howard would say it is much better to recieve the $4,000 and have it in the bank than have to come out of pocket and possible having a hard time payint the $4,000. I can see why this country is in such financial turmoil with all these people in credit card debt and having to pay the gov’t on top of that. Whew…I’m glad I can pay my bills and get some fun surprise money coming my way.
Report this comment
Marta Evangelist
June 22nd, 2009
4:57 pm
Ha! Yeah, I’m over-the-top about Marta…I admit it. Why not, it saves me tons of money and time, it allows me to read while someone else safely gets me where I need to go, and if I have too much to drink at night I don’t have to worry about driving drunk. I have no ulterior motives, other than trying to get people to realize that there are some of us that are well-off, educated, car-owning, and yes…white, and we use Marta because it makes our life better.
And Puhleeze! – if you show me a credible web site that shows where someone has been murdered on MARTA I will gladly meet you at 5 points tonight with a $5 bill for you.
Report this comment
keep it real
June 22nd, 2009
5:00 pm
Truth, I think what you don’t understand is that a large refund is not good. But the reality is that your income is low and you qualify for low income tax credits.
Report this comment
Xachxrek
June 22nd, 2009
5:18 pm
c6VeME comment1 ,
Report this comment
Puhleeze!
June 22nd, 2009
5:18 pm
Bynum, 44, was just two weeks from getting married when he made a trip to California, leaving his car at a friend’s house near the Lenox MARTA station.
Gordon Bynum, Jr. (44), a marketing executive, returned from the West Coast late on the evening of June 9, 1999, and took MARTA from the airport to the Lenox station and was shot and murdered. The murderer was never convicted because trial ended in a mistrial.
You can give my $5 to any homeless person that you see on MARTA tonight.
.
Report this comment
The Truth
June 22nd, 2009
5:18 pm
Keep it real: I make plenty of money to satisfy my needs and wants. I have no credit card debt and money in the bank. Notwithstanding my income, I am sure I am in a better financial situation than most on this board.
Report this comment
Anastasia Beaverhausen
June 22nd, 2009
5:25 pm
Unreal how narrow the focus of so many people – If you look at history, the 401K program was born out of a tax loophole for a minority of taxpayers – as corporations discovered the benefit of providing LESS benefits to it’s employees than a traditional pension plan; the 401K plan became the defacto standard for “self driven” retirement plans. Now that corporations are making less profit, they are now eliminating their contribution to the employee plans…making it truly a “self driven plan”. If anyone is to get angry about this – get angery at the level of corporate greed that exists in this country. Every coporate benefit has been either cut or retired completely. And we continue to compensate corporate leaders at a rate of 40tiems that of other countries!
Report this comment
Puhleeze!
June 22nd, 2009
5:26 pm
Oh! And don’t forget the grandmother who was KIDNAPPED from the Lindbergh station and RAPED in June 2002! Yeah, right. MARTA is safe.
Give another $5 bucks to another homeless rider for me.
The Marta Police Crime Stats for 2005 show 65 robberies, 46 aggravated assaults and 1 rape. The highest number of crimes are related to larceny(332) and auto theft(119).
The MARTA police and MARTA employees are rarely seen on the trains or in the stations along the north-south routes. Instead MARTA places helpful posters on all trains encouraging passengers to “move away from the source of trouble” and call MARTA police, who are practically invisible in the trains or stations.
Still feel safe on MARTA? If so, then, good for you!
Report this comment
msu
June 22nd, 2009
5:27 pm
I thank God that Marta is still running and have not shut down completely. Rather than complain, i choose to be thankful, at least i can get from point A to B, because i do not have a car.
Report this comment
Peri
June 22nd, 2009
5:32 pm
I second that, msu, I just feel that MARTA’s rate hike is uncessary and penalizes the every-day-low-income-rider-who-doesn’t-have-a-car, not your traveling-to-airport-riders.
Report this comment
Tony
June 22nd, 2009
5:32 pm
The state of georgia and the Governor are the ones to be blamed for Martas wo’s. Marta is the only major public transportation system that is not partially funded with state funds. I totally agree that there is a lot of improvements that need to addressed especially with the perpetially late busses. I will still ride Marta to and from work as it is still convient for me. $.25 is a tollerable increase for me.
Report this comment
Sara
June 22nd, 2009
5:33 pm
I ride MARTA daily, and have been doing so since 1996. I live just over 6 miles from my office. My commute on MARTA is an hour and a half on a good day – it has been as long as 2 hours and 20 minutes. 45 minutes of the 90 minute commute are spent waiting on buses that don’t show up. (It’s not unusual to spend 30-45 minutes waiting on a bus that’s supposed to run every 15 minutes.) Remember – this is on a GOOD day. I have waited over an hour on these buses more times than I care to recall.
This same trip in a car takes 20 minutes in normal traffic.
So no, it’s not worth it. The problem isn’t just having to pay .25 more per ride. The problem is having to waste a minimum of 350 minutes of my life every week on the sick joke that is Atlanta’s public transit system.
Report this comment
Roxy
June 22nd, 2009
5:40 pm
Evangelist, I live and work in-town. The parking lots are heavily subsidized, but are a six-block walk from my office. It will be decidedly less expensive to drive, and I won’t have to sit next to anyone drenched in urine, listen to a parent scream obscenities at their toddler, or sit next to a Unabomber lookalike. I’ve taken MARTA for 3 years – mostly reliable – but I’m done.
Report this comment
JB
June 22nd, 2009
5:44 pm
The MARTA system is terrible compared to mass transit in other cities. The worst part is, it is already a more expensive option than other cities, and less efficient. The system needs a complete overhaul if it wants to seriously have a positive effect on Atlanta traffic.
Report this comment
Joseph B
June 22nd, 2009
5:50 pm
Congrats to MARTA! Finally they got some sense. Fares have not been raised in forever and have not been adjusted for inflation even when gas was $4. So good for them. And for all the “poor people” who you all say can’t afford the fare increase you tell me how they buy all these fanciful shoes and fast food junk all day. They surely can and will be able to afford to not eat a Big Mac for a week so they can get to work. Not even in a Prius can you go from the Airport to Mansell Road for $1.75 so suck it up and be thankful for the (little) transit we do have in this terribly run state and city.
Report this comment
Roxy
June 22nd, 2009
5:56 pm
Joseph, what poor people do you have up there on Mansell Road??
Report this comment
Joseph B
June 22nd, 2009
6:04 pm
Well could it be the poor people that live maybe in South Atlanta yet work at North Point Mall? I was referring to the “poor” referenced earlier in this comment section.
Report this comment
The Boykin
June 22nd, 2009
6:17 pm
How dumb do you have to be to sit on Marta for two hours to get six miles. You could get pushed in a wheel barrel faster than that.
Report this comment
Wendy
June 22nd, 2009
9:04 pm
If you check any major city of the size of Atlanta you will see that their public transit systems cost the same if not more than the proposed increase. Just keeping up with the times.
Report this comment
Atl Girl
June 22nd, 2009
9:35 pm
To Puhleeze, please check your facts again, Gordon Bynum was not shot at the MARTA station
Report this comment
Najeh Davenpoop
June 22nd, 2009
10:20 pm
I ride MARTA whenever the alternative means paying for parking, and I don’t mind having to pay a quarter extra. But until they find a way to change their funding scheme so they can undertake new expansion projects to serve currently underserved areas, their money problems are going to continue. Of course they need to find a way to expand to Gwinnett, Cobb, and Clayton, but there are a lot of people even within Fulton and DeKalb who are not within walking or short driving distance of a MARTA station, and taking MARTA means a longer travel time for most of them.
Report this comment
EmMeThree
June 22nd, 2009
10:53 pm
To Puhleeze!, The greater majority of MARTA police officers on the trains are plain-clothes officers. If you’d like to see one simply enter a station without paying.
To Roxy, nice comment. I hope you quoted John Rocker’s Sports Illustrated acticle as the source of your remarks. Otherwise it’s plagarism!
Report this comment
BMac
June 22nd, 2009
10:57 pm
MARTA…the subway to nowhere…..
Report this comment
Homeless poor people suck!
June 23rd, 2009
12:07 am
BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
THE POOR PEOPLE CAN’T AFFORD IT! WELL I SAY, BOO FREAKING HOO!!!!! IN THE WORDS OF FDR, “YOU ARE POOR BECAUSE YOU CHOOSE TO BE!”
Report this comment
John Galt
June 23rd, 2009
9:11 am
For someone who travels ever week for work, this is a sad, sad day…
Clear really made a difference in the quality of my life.
Report this comment
David Gordon
June 23rd, 2009
9:11 am
I want a refund on the fee i recently paid for this service. I’m sure that won’t happen.
Report this comment
Charlie
June 23rd, 2009
9:15 am
By Charlie
Jun 23, 2009 9:08 AM | Link to this
Long lines, Clear Card discontinued… I dont feel sorry for any of you that have tolerated being subjected to intrusive illegal (unconstitutional) search of your person or property or detention (arrest) by burger flipper rejects!!!!!!!!!!!!
As long as you tolerate this then you get exactly what you deserve… TSA ISNT about security it’s about showmanship…they search, but not for terrorist, since they arent using profiles….WHen we (USA) search like the Isreali’s then I’ll start flying again!
Report this comment
Steven
June 23rd, 2009
10:12 am
I will miss Clear in a big, big way. The service was awesome and very worthwhile when you go through Hartsfield twice a week. Now it’s back in line with the hoi polloi. Sigh.
Report this comment
A.J. in Decatur
June 23rd, 2009
10:19 am
Gordon Bynum may not have been killed at a MARTA station, but he was leaving one — and that still doesn’t diminish the other, verifiable crime stats of incidents that HAVE taken place at MARTA stations.
Report this comment
Wilbert News Strategies
June 23rd, 2009
10:19 am
I’ll miss the Clear lanes. They were well worth the $150/year.
Report this comment
Alton E. Drew
June 23rd, 2009
10:24 am
This was a very insightful piece. We hear more and more about branding but this article laid out some clear guidelines from a good example.
Alton Drew
http://www.altondrew.com
Report this comment
Ray
June 23rd, 2009
10:43 am
I was a member in 2008 but did not renew in 2009. I did not see any significant difference between the Delta elite lanes. Clear was a complete waste of money. Does anyone besides Delta fly through Atlanta?
Report this comment
AtlantaGuy
June 23rd, 2009
10:48 am
Ugh..no clear lines so back to the extra long lines again. Clear made my airport weekly trips much more tolerable over the last year.
I was thinking how glad I am that they are here yesterday morning when I left ATL now I will have to get to the airports excessively early again to make it through the snake like maze of people.
Maybe ATL can do what a lot of other airports are doing. Break the lines up into expert travlers, holiday travelers and family travelers so that all of the lines do not get overburdened by the less experienced.
Report this comment
Mike
June 23rd, 2009
10:52 am
If most MARTA riders can afford $200 IPods and $300 sneakers, they can afford an extra 25 cents for a ride to work. If not, they can sell their Hawks or Falcons tickets.
Report this comment
Melody
June 23rd, 2009
11:09 am
I completely agree with Nichole. I get a discounted card through my employer, and it’s much cheaper than driving twelve miles to work and then paying for parking. I also live in the real world, and I don’t expect MARTA to be like the Ritz either.
Report this comment
Cew5x
June 23rd, 2009
11:23 am
This is too bad- I am a Delta platinum skymiles member so it didn’t make too much of a difference to me here in ATL as far as Monday morning wait times go, but clear really came through in airports where Delta doesn’t have a large presence (like Denver). Hopefully someone will eventually fill the void, b/c I think it’s a great idea.
Report this comment
Lance
June 23rd, 2009
11:34 am
Just signed a 3 year contract in Feb. Guess I got burned. Hopefully someone will buy them and keep the service around because it was great.
Report this comment
Bryan
June 23rd, 2009
12:08 pm
I think there are a lot of folks that need to wake up and support Marta. The fare increase was long over due. Numbers show that it should actually be more than $2 bucks just because of inflation. That is still cheap. I’m glad to see people like Marta Evangelist that still support transit. Puhleeze!, I don’t know why you down the system so much and don’t even have your facts right when you do. Thanks Atl Girl for clarifying that the gentleman was not killed at a Marta station. Unfortunately he was killed walking home but he could have been walking from anywhere, a bar, a lounge, someones house. But because it was a Marta station it was a way to keep fear out there about the system. There are definitely improvements that need to be made and I feel that even the most stearn advocates for transit in ATL will tell you that. But what can you expect for a system that serves 5.6 million people but only about 2 million actually pay into the system and there is no support from the state? The same state that won’t even let Marta control it’s own money. Could Marta train cover more area… they sure could but how when counties like Cobb and Gwinett are so scared that trains are going to bring crime. Like the people here doing crimes don’t have cars or something and can just drive and post up somewhere and wait for their victims. No they’d rather take a train so that the police can be waiting at the next station for them. If you haven’t noticed most Marta station promote dense transit oriented development which is not low income and also business considering moving to the area want to have transit as an option for their employees, especially rail transit. Even in the city itself there are still folks who complain about not having transit but don’t want the train to come through their neighborhoods, scared it is going to bring the criminal element. You can’t expect all of Marta to run every 5 minutes and have 24 hour service if you don’t pay into the system. I would love to see the rail service doubled in size and more buses out there running every 10 minutes and a 24 hour system but 1)no one wants to pay for it and 2) the folks are so scared that they don’t want Marta in their area. They’d rather have their own system that will never run on the same level as Marta and that connects with the rail system. I guess that one extra transfer will deter them from coming out there and robbing. Marta isn’t perfect and even though it is sorely underfunded Marta has made mistakes too but that is just part of the business. Overall Marta is pretty efficient with the resources it has. Just remember no Marta, there is no Atlanta, and no Atlanta, Georgia would just be grass and country folk lost behind the times.
Report this comment
ugacpa02
June 23rd, 2009
12:11 pm
Yeah, I’m not a big fan of businesses that take a yearly fee and then can be gone tommorow. Might explain why I never used their service.
Report this comment
rip & read
June 23rd, 2009
12:23 pm
I travel out of Hartsfield every week. There are expert traveler lanes contrary to what AtlantaGuy has posted. At the far end of the south terminal. Never and I mean never has there been a line more than 20 deep at that checkpoint. It is also designated as the expert traveler lane. Yes it is somewhat hidden and a few steps farther away than the main checkpoint but well worth the effort. An associate who travels the same trips I do got ripped by the Clear debacle. I’m glad I didn’t pony up the fee. Lately lines at Hartsfield are easily manageable.
Report this comment
JT
June 23rd, 2009
12:28 pm
As a weekly traveler flying out of Atlanta since ‘98, I was thrilled when we finally obtained Clear lines in Hartsfield. I had been a platinum member with Delta for years, but the premium line had become so saturated that it really didn’t offer any major advantages in the Monday morning commute. How can it when Hartsfield is the hub for Delta and the line allows all platinum, gold and first class ticket holders?
The Clear line was a welcome alternative and certainly reduced my travel time. It’s greatest beneft tended to be at other airports (got to love traveling through Orlando during tourist season and only having to wait 10 minutes). I’ll definitely miss this service.
Report this comment
Jeff
June 23rd, 2009
12:30 pm
I fly on business 2-3 days per week. But, no lines – I keep my own airplane at my home on a private airstrip, walk out the door, hop in and away we go. Learn to fly yourselves folks, get your own airplane and quit whining about what the airlines are doing to you!
Report this comment
Reality
June 23rd, 2009
1:07 pm
I guess the people complaining the most are the ones who ride MARTA on weekends. I use it as my only means of transportation. I must admit it seems like a totally different system on weekends and during off peaks hours. During weekday peak hours the trains and buses do run on time. I gave up my car a few years ago when gas climbed over two bucks a gallon. I have never been late for work. Travel time from Buckhead to Decatur is 40 min. I leave work at 4:30 in Decatur, travel to downtown, transfer northbound, transfer to a bus at Arts Center and occasionally the bus pulls up in front of my apartment at 5. Not bad for 13.00 bucks a week and unlimited rides.
Report this comment
Wally
June 24th, 2009
4:42 am
I travel weekly out and in at Harsfield. I’ve always strolled by the Clear lanes and wondered how ripped off the people that paid for that must feel. Really, their timing was bad. Since the economy soured, wait times at ATL are nonexistent. More often than not, I walk through security without waiting at all and even on a busy day, its never more than 5-10 minutes. And now the rip is complete. Sorry to the folks that paid for that. Frankly, if the 10 minute wait in normal security lines is a burden, I think you just need a new alarm clock. On the other hand, I agree that TSA screening is a stunt that accomplishes almost nothing. If I was a terrorist willing to die for my cause, you think I wouldn’t spring for a $75 one way fare so I could get past the checkpoint? Total waste of time and money.
Report this comment
ugacpa02
June 24th, 2009
10:47 am
Yeah, clearly not a great business or even a good business plan. That’s why they failed. Nothing about the aviation industry can strike the right balance between cost, convenience, and security.
Report this comment
Rod
June 24th, 2009
10:49 am
It was non sense from the start. Why should people be able to get in a fast lane when we are all paying taxes for the same services. Good the end of airport lexus lanes. Now on the the HOV lanes
Report this comment
Derek
June 24th, 2009
11:25 am
The clear lanes only caused confusion at the airport and didn’t provide any real advantage when the issue isn’t the lines, it’s the morons that TSA hires to snooze, I mean “screen” passengers and carry on baggage.
Report this comment
Bravedawg
June 24th, 2009
12:16 pm
First, the things on which I agree with you:
It stinks that customers won’t get refunds
It’s bad business to not issue refunds
They were in negotiations with creditors for awhile
However, I don’t know that they could have (or should have) told their customers that they were failing. What would be the message? If they told everyone that they weren’t doing well, potential customers would not buy their product. And while, with the benefit of hindsight, we can now say that would’ve been a good thing for consumers, at the time (during negotiations) Clear, I would have to assume, wasn’t certain that they were shutting down (because they were still in negotiations). So, I don’t think it would’ve made any sense for them to tell customers that they were failing…
But again, I think it stinks that they won’t issue refunds. I would hate that if I was someone who just bought a membership 2 months ago and hadn’t gotten my money’s worth yet. But at the same time, it’s logical – they went out of business because they ran out of money; so it would only follow that they wouldn’t issue refunds, because they don’t have any money!
Report this comment
Tyree
June 24th, 2009
12:49 pm
Maybe this company should have pursued a government hand/bailout out like so many others.
Report this comment
CommonSense
June 24th, 2009
1:00 pm
What’s the problem? Pay by credit card and then dispute the charge on the basis the services were not delivered.
Report this comment
Keisha Waites
June 24th, 2009
1:53 pm
unbelievable
Report this comment
Glad
June 24th, 2009
2:11 pm
It never should’ve been allowed in the first place. Though some are clearly profiled within the security guidelines, airport security should be one of the great equalizers in this country. The only folks that deserve a break are those serving in the armed forces. I’m happy to see this particular “service” GONE!!!
Report this comment
Maryanne
June 24th, 2009
2:13 pm
I agree