Maker of gun used in Sandy Hook tragedy up for sale
Some fast fallout in the business world from the Sandy Hook tragedy.
From CNNMoney: “Private equity firm Cerberus has put U.S. firearms maker Freedom Group up for sale following Friday’s killing of 20 children and six adults at the Sandy Hook school shooting in Connecticut.
“Freedom Group includes Bushmaster, maker of the rifle used in the shooting at the school in Newtown. Cerberus bought Bushmaster in 2006 before adding another 10 makers of firearms, ammunition and accessories to the group.”
In a statement, Cerberus said: “It is apparent that the Sandy Hook tragedy was a watershed event that has raised the national debate on gun control to an unprecedented level.”
For the full story at ajc.com.
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120 comments Add your comment
Dr.Biz
December 18th, 2012
11:00 am
Gun control advocates got what they wanted.
Sammy Dawg
December 18th, 2012
11:00 am
Yea, no sh*t Sherlock.
billy bob from cobb
December 18th, 2012
11:07 am
They are selling on a high. The bushmasters will be flying out of the gun stores for the next several months because of this. It was the same company that made the D.C. snipers rifle and look what happened to their sales after that came out
Douglas
December 18th, 2012
11:07 am
Yep…you too are a bunch of close-minded freaking idiots. What, are you such a poor shot when you go hunting that you need a semi-automatic to kill animals? How many more children have to die? Oh, let’s stay with your ignorant defense: “Guns don’t kill people…people kill people.”
Turkey Slayer
December 18th, 2012
11:08 am
Wow, what a breaking story David Markiewicz. We were all waiting for someone to find out!
Why don’t you minions at AJC try to find something positive and happy to write about?
Mike
December 18th, 2012
11:09 am
Its obvious from the comments above that if thier children had been murdered they would feel the same way they do now! Reminds me of well known Rednecks last words before his peril of stupidity; “watch this!”
right
December 18th, 2012
11:10 am
guns don’t kill people, people kill people. and a person with an assault rifle kills lots and lots of people.
oldman
December 18th, 2012
11:10 am
My guns have killed less people the Ted Kennedy’s car has.
oldman
December 18th, 2012
11:12 am
ergo – My guns have killed less people than Ted Kennedy’s car has, so are you going to outlaw cars?
asdf
December 18th, 2012
11:12 am
why do so many assume that guns are only for hunting? anyone that does has never known the safety a gun provides when living in a high crime neighborhood.
wise willie wingate
December 18th, 2012
11:13 am
Enter your comments here
Qwayshawna
December 18th, 2012
11:14 am
Someone’s going to pick up a very profitable business for a song.
Cerberus wants to do the politically correct thing, I can understand that, but at the end of the day successful investors think with their heads not their hormones.
billy bob from cobb
December 18th, 2012
11:16 am
How many people die from junk food?
Earl
December 18th, 2012
11:18 am
It has been reported that 6 laws were broken by the shooter. I guess 2 or 3 more would have made the difference.
nathan's political arsonist
December 18th, 2012
11:18 am
great news, one down. bad day for redneck guntards
Devil's Advocate
December 18th, 2012
11:19 am
Douglas,
There is nothing ignorant about the statement “Guns don’t kill people…people kill people.” Your only defense is that people are “a bunch of closed-minded freaking idiots” and you question their shooting ability when hunting. Look in the mirror to see who is being ignorant.
I don’t hunt, I don’t currently own a gun (shame on me), but I was raised with guns in the home for home defense. I was allowed to handle guns (never shoot them though). Instead, I was given 2 BB pistols (one air powered, one spring powered) to practice shooting.
Since I don’t own a gun as an adult I’m pretty sure my life represents the argument that guns themselves don’t cause people to be violent considering my upbringing.
I’ll wait for your feedback and potential insults since I disagree with your position.
AR owner
December 18th, 2012
11:20 am
Guns are NOT the problem. Mentally unfit people are the problem.
Laws will not change anything. He broke many other laws besides murder and the next one will break them as well.
The only defense against a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun…
hokie4life
December 18th, 2012
11:20 am
@billy bob from cob: What is your point? I find it VERY hard to find similarities between people eating junk food and the innocent killing of children?
Dwayne
December 18th, 2012
11:21 am
lanza’s Mom is a saint…bought lots of guns, taught her mentally unstable son how to shoot, so they could bond. the assault weapon is to blame? Let a loved one of yours get carjacked at gunpoint, kidnapped then raped. Take my gun/guns? I think not.
John
December 18th, 2012
11:24 am
Douglas…You probably dont know this but the 2nd Amendment to the US constitution enabled all Americans to no limit on their right to protect themselves from a tyrannical government…if the patriots didnt own their own muskets we would still be a backwater British colony….gun ownership is not about hunting and it never has been…take away our guns and only criminals…and the Government will have power…im for the control of military semi-autos and large clips….but the guns that most Americans arent going anywhere…you hardly ever hear, through our liberal media, the large number of cases in which gun owners protected themselves…blowing away an armed, threatening home invaders just doesnt seem to get much ink…yeah im for a discussion on some issues about guns but get your facts straight before you start calling all gun owners “idiots”.
obamaSIN LADEN
December 18th, 2012
11:24 am
when guns are outlawed…only outlaws and the elite will have guns. hunters hunt, shot sportsmen shoot for sport,crazies and murderers kill with their weopon of choice.. what is wrong with the guns? you are correct…nothing. gata nra.
Don't Tread
December 18th, 2012
11:28 am
If guns cause crime, mine are all defective.
Might be a good time to move the company to Texas…
AR owner
December 18th, 2012
11:30 am
What makes you pro-gun control guys think that these insane people are going to abide by any new law? If you want to kill others, then they will find a way to hurt innocent people.
I HATE what heppened, but I personally would like to be prepared when the bad guy shows up and tries to hurt me or my family.
The problem arises when responsible gun owners pay the price for the mentally unstable and evil people get access to these weapons. Especially if they have no previous record of violence.
Again, I am saddened and heartbroken over the events in CT, however laws can not and will not stop evil.
George
December 18th, 2012
11:30 am
Their is nothing wrong with guns it the tiny group that has them.Guns will not stop selling all over the country people get shot every day.Crooks will always have guns.
John
December 18th, 2012
11:33 am
My guns have killed less people than Barbara Bush’s car.
godawg
December 18th, 2012
11:35 am
They should just take Chris Rock’s suggestion from years ago….make bullets cost $100 each. This sounds crazy but it could work. You could purchase low cost rounds at firing ranges, but you would have to fire them all there. How many rounds do hunters really fire hunting? Sure it would make hunting more expensive, but no more so than golf. If this was the case, do you think the shooter’s mother would have had $5000 worth of rounds in the house? Limit civiian sales to 10 or 20 rounds. Just a thought…..
Pry them from my..
December 18th, 2012
11:36 am
What makes you think that someone intent on MURDER will abide by a firearm law? Get real people.
Pry them from my..
December 18th, 2012
11:38 am
goUGAg,
Taxing ammunition is already a strategy of the anti’s. But again, do you think dollars will stop someone crazy enough to murder someone? Probably not.
Just makes us law-abiding sport shooters, hunters and home-defense guys pay more money to the gov’t.
HardHat
December 18th, 2012
11:45 am
In the USA since Friday mid morning 6 police have died by gun fire. How many of those gun holders got them from a legal source? 12/18/2012 1144 am. No test was given for them to handle guns. How did they get them? Convicted felons always find a way to get them.
Machine Gun
December 18th, 2012
11:47 am
From the Independant The licensing process requires applicants to undergo checks and interviews and police have wide discretion in deciding whether or not to approve them.
Bolt-action rifles are the only firearms which most gun enthusiasts can expect to be able to own. Handguns are classified in the same category as machine guns and semi-automatic rifles and are virtually unobtainable legally, except for organisations such as the police.
Machine Gun
December 18th, 2012
11:47 am
The above is the rules for owning a gun in Great Britain
Donald
December 18th, 2012
11:48 am
To start with, let me say that I agree with the statement that guns don’t kill people, people kill people. Lay a gun on a table and see how many people it kills until someone picks it up. They are an inanimate object that cannot do anything on their own. Second, I don’t need a rifle capable of spitting out a lot of ammunition to kill a deer if I want to, I am a better shot than that. If you need something like that to go hunting game, you’re in trouble. I don’t think guns should be banned but assault rifles and large capacity magazines should be banned for use and purchase by the general public. The only people that need something like that are the military and law enforcement.
southern hope
December 18th, 2012
11:54 am
Hunting guns, fine. I don’t hunt but i”m 100% cool with folks who do.
but these other guns? Ego-builders. Show-off purchases. Paranoid people. All of them the kind of people I don’t want to see with a firearm.
Machine Gun
December 18th, 2012
11:55 am
As you can see handguns are classified in the same category as machine guns…and thus almost impossible to own in Great Britain….
England has a much lower rate of gun violence then here in the U.S…now I believe in the right to bear arms but folks we need some common sense in determining which guns are legal and who can obtain them.
Why in the hell would anyone need to own an Assualt Rifle…. A reader wrote yesterday…should we not have the same guns as the U.S. Govt…
Are you serious…if our own Govt decides to the Armed Forcues against us don’t you think would consider using Nukes and or Chemical Weapons?
There’s no resonable need for anyone other than the U.S. Military and our Govt, State, and local law enforcement personnel to own an assualt weopon……
SUPPORT THE BAN………..LET’S TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY…(OH WRONG SLOGAN)…LET’S USE SOME COMMON SENSE…….
wise willie wingate
December 18th, 2012
11:55 am
It’s unfortunate that the gun control element can now benefit from tragedy that has its roots in the breakdown of the traditional American family. These unwise idiots fail to see and address the true cause of such evil acts. Over 70% of students come from broken families. In many cases single women or grand parents try to raise these children while the real fathers go from crotch to crotch impregnating multiple females with absolutely no intention of providing support for these children. Our society has finally broken down because of our lack of morals and the destruction of traditional marriage and family stucture.This country was founded by Christian men who sought for God’s wisdom and direction in building and establishing our constitution.They knew that there would be many power seekers who would use any means in order to acquire power for the few.Don’t think for one moment that gun control will be limited to only a handful of weapons. Once the erosion of individual rights begins it will eventually lead to a gradual dis-arming of the population, and, as a result will open the door for total elimination of individual rights.Our forefathers knew this when they formed our constitional rights.Beware!
Hooty Goot
December 18th, 2012
11:56 am
If you own guns it is your duty to keep your guns locked away so that only you have access to them. If you leave them laying around where anyone in your house can have access to them bad things can and sometimes do happen.
Nate
December 18th, 2012
11:57 am
@ John
Barbara Bush’s car never killed anyone. You’re thinking of Laura. Snark works better when its factually correct.
Yatsidog
December 18th, 2012
11:58 am
If a gang of robbers are breaking into my house or attack me, my chances are much better if I have an assault weapon. Otherwise, I’m outnumbered and my chances of surviving are bleak. Its, not the guns, its the demented minds behind them.
KingLarry
December 18th, 2012
12:00 pm
godawg is not that far off the mark. While he Constitution guarantees us the right to own a firearm it is silent pertaining to ammo, and a gun with no ammo is nothing more than a fancy rock. Here’s how I see it going down. To avoid a major challenge in the courts, the Feds will place a “surcharge” on any new gun bought. The Gov’t (through Obamacare) has already proven it can levy a tax on anything. The surcharge will be high and they will say the $$ will go to a “Victim’s Fund” (BS – but that’s what they’ll say). Next will be a major surcharge on ALL ammo sales and make sellers jump a bunch of hoops to encourage them to get out of the business since it will be a big hassle. Next, they’ll make a law that will require all existing gun owners to immediately report any loss or stolen guns to the police within 24 hours. Failure to do so would make it mandatory jail time. Then, they’ll require the reporting and registering ALL existing guns and offer an amnesty period to do so. Next, they’ll require ALL gun owners to pay an ANNUAL fee for gun ownership (like your car registration) that will increase steadily over three years. This way, when you fail to pay your annual ownership fee they can demand you surrender your gun, and your failure will allow them to enter your home to seize it, since it is now ILLEGAL. Watch for this to happen. A little chip here, and a little chip there. The 2nd Amendment will still be there but will be ineffective. And guess who will still have the guns? The criminals and gangbangers. Slowly, you’ll see most of your Constitutional rights lost through a similar process. God Bless America!
USC-69
December 18th, 2012
12:01 pm
Twenty children dead. A deranged shooter with access to multiple, powerful, guns. And you what to have an argument about the solution?
King Larry1
December 18th, 2012
12:02 pm
godawg is not that far off the mark. While the Constitution guarantees us the right to own a firearm it is silent pertaining to ammo, and a gun with no ammo is nothing more than a fancy rock. Here’s how I see it going down. To avoid a major challenge in the courts, the Feds will place a “surcharge” on any new gun bought. The Gov’t (through Obamacare) has already proven it can levy a tax on anything. The surcharge will be high and they will say the $$ will go to a “Victim’s Fund” (BS – but that’s what they’ll say). Next will be a major surcharge on ALL ammo sales and make sellers jump a bunch of hoops to encourage them to get out of the business since it will be a big hassle. Next, they’ll make a law that will require all existing gun owners to immediately report any loss or stolen guns to the police within 24 hours. Failure to do so would make it mandatory jail time. Then, they’ll require the reporting and registering ALL existing guns and offer an amnesty period to do so. Next, they’ll require ALL gun owners to pay an ANNUAL fee for gun ownership (like your car registration) that will increase steadily over three years. This way, when you fail to pay your annual ownership fee they can demand you surrender your gun, and your failure will allow them to enter your home to seize it, since it is now ILLEGAL. Watch for this to happen. A little chip here, and a little chip there. The 2nd Amendment will still be there but will be ineffective. And guess who will still have the guns? The criminals and gangbangers. Slowly, you’ll see most of your Constitutional rights lost through a similar process. God Bless America!
southern hope
December 18th, 2012
12:03 pm
John at 11:24 — “you hardly ever hear, through our liberal media, the large number of cases in which gun owners protected themselves…blowing away an armed, threatening home invaders just doesnt seem to get much ink.”
This simply isn’t true. It would be cool if it *were* true but it just isn’t accurate. This article is pretty interesting and I will also look for an overall stats piece to send: http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/30/opinion/frum-guns-safer/index.html
Machine Gun
December 18th, 2012
12:03 pm
@Donald and Southern Hope…I agree with you totally…
I hear it all the time “Guns don’t kill people…people kill people.”
This is true…but if you have something in your character that would make you more likely to commit a violent act; would restrictions on certain guns prevent you in some way.
Think about it folks…if the shooter at Sandyhook only had the two handguns and not the AR15 would it be safe to say that the number of children and adults killed would have been a lot less?
THIS IS CRAZY…..STOP THE MADNESS…….SUPPORT THE BAN ON ASSUALT WEOPONS NOW……..
Hooty Goot
December 18th, 2012
12:04 pm
Good luck disarming people who live in rural Alaska. These folks don’t even take out the trash without having a large caliber pistol strapped on their hip. They live right in amongst bears and wolves and HAVE to protect themselves. Kind of like the streets of Atlanta.
John
December 18th, 2012
12:04 pm
Nate, just google Barbara Bush killed a guy and you will find many articles. This is just one of them:
http://www.bartcop.com/pickles-killer.htm
Now that’s snark.
Pippy
December 18th, 2012
12:08 pm
Suppose the government does start hammering down on gun control…because this should also affect what is shown on primetime tv shows, top selling video games and the internet. Let’s get all of it while we are on the subject. There were guns back in the 40’s, 50’s, 60’s etc…. how many schools got shot up then? hmmmmm? could it be what’s influencing people to have this sort of behavior? IMO, the government has alot of other areas to clean up before they get to the actual gun itself issue.
The Man
December 18th, 2012
12:14 pm
Assault rifles should be banned and rounded up. They should always have been limited to military and law enforcement use. They are human slaughter machines, plain and simple. They are not legitimate hunting weapons as they are not as accurate as long distance hunting rifles. Also, where is the sport in spraying the woods with 40 bullets in 45 seconds. They are overkill for personal protection (a semi-automatic handgun is plenty). This is not about the 2nd Amendment. This is about the assault weapon manufacturers’ economic interests being protected at the cost of slaughtered innocents.
NotYou
December 18th, 2012
12:15 pm
Not too many “redneck guntards” shoot up schools. Correct me if I’ve missed something. The profiles of the last several mass shooters doesn’t really line up with billy bob in the tree stand. But hey, that makes your argument sound better, right? Easy to pigeon hole those you disagree with. That’s the open mindedness talking. Check out the crime rates of legal gun owners compared to general population. I’ll wait. Ban guns, these people will adapt. Sept 11th took place without the use of a single gun.
Just Wondering
December 18th, 2012
12:19 pm
To all of you gun hater, let me ask you this question. Let’s say that you and your family is out having a nice meal and someone busted in the door and started shooting people. I remove my pistol and kill these perps before they kill you and/or your family. Will you Thank me for saving your families life or will you hate me because I carry a gun? Let’s say it is a gang of 10-15 perps, shooting up your home form some reason and I live next door to you and I pull out my AR with a 30 round clip and I take out every one of them and your family is now safe. Will you hate me because I have a rifle with a 30 rd clip or will you Thank me for stopping these people from killing you and your family?
NotYou
December 18th, 2012
12:19 pm
@The Man – I don’t know anyone that hunts like that. Usually those that are into the ARs (no, AR does not stand for assault rifle) are not necessarily hunters and vice versa. These are not automatic rifles as that requires more licensing, tax stamps, etc. The 2nd Amendment has absolutely nothing to do with hunting. At all.
Hooty Goot
December 18th, 2012
12:20 pm
I’ve never owned an assault rifle and don’t want or feel a need for one. I wouldn’t have a problem at all with a ban on them as a matter of fact I think it’s a pretty good idea. Just leave my 12 guage pump shotgun alone.
Let's be realistic
December 18th, 2012
12:21 pm
2 things: ONE – there are 285 million guns in America; if a law was passed tomorrow that required that all 285 million be turned in….would they? of course not – only SOME of the good guys would turn in their guns TWO – the overwhelming majority of these “shooters” are on very strong anti-depressants – in other words they are drugged up – WE NEED TO DEAL WITH DEPRESSION AND AUTISM AND HOW TO PROPERLY TREAT THEM !!
Yes Me
December 18th, 2012
12:23 pm
Guns have been in this country forever. In the past they were way more common and accessible to kids (in the home). We can easily blame the changes in the media, society, etc but the fact is those are “hard” issues to solve. Gun control is a seemingly “easy” fix. Until it’s in place.
Yes Me
December 18th, 2012
12:24 pm
@Hooty Goot – Slippery slope.
Devil's Advocate
December 18th, 2012
12:25 pm
Machine Gun,
1 student dying is 1 too many. Are you really going to try to quantify the degree of tragedy?
Hooty Goot
December 18th, 2012
12:38 pm
Yes Me — I agree. Nobody wants to come right out and say it for fear of hurting feelings. But we can ask the question. How could this tragic incident have been avoided or at least postphoned?
Justineisu
December 18th, 2012
12:41 pm
It never ceases to amaze me how we have such nonsensical arguments over guns and their distriburtion to the civilian population. The fact a gun manufacturer is sold has not to do with whether or not guns will be sold. It merely means they will be sold by a different manufacturer and probably under a different name.
I cannot understand why people are expressing shock that a person walked into a public place and killed 26 people. We fail to acknowledge the news media had been keeping weekly counts on the number of people murdered with firearms in such cities as Los Angeles. Chicago and New York.
This is not the first school shooting of young children. Have we forgotten a man walked into a rural Amish school and killed students.
But here is one difference. In the past NRA and other supporters had said in certain situation if persons had been armed, they could have prevented such massacres. WELL .HERE IS THE FACT NANCY LANZ WAS A GUN EXPERT AND SHE WAS THE FIRST PERSON KILLED. HER LEGALLY PURCHASED GUNS WERE THEN USED TO KILL 26 PEOPLE. ONE OF THEM WAS THEN USED TO FACILITATE THE SUICIDE OF HER PERPETRATOR SON.
onlyinamerica
December 18th, 2012
12:48 pm
A tiny portion of the population own guns? Better re think that statement. You don’t hear about who has guns until the media runs rampant with stories like this. I still don’t think we have even heard an accurate account of what went on in that school. Why? Because every media ho’ has to be the first to report or get an exclusive that they end up reporting false information. It needs to be noted also, that when these “mass shootings” happen – they happen in places where the coward perp has a pretty good idea that no one is armed. Why don’t you go to a gun show and see how nice and respectful everyone is there – because everyone is packing. And to all of you against the “evil guns and the hunters, etc” let me tell you something. I wonder what the outcome of this shooting would have been if that a**hole was met with a bullet on the other side of that door? There would be 20 children who would be alive right now. That’s what. And, let me know how that baseball bat works when someone attacks you or your family.
Sparta_Bubba
December 18th, 2012
12:49 pm
Oldman, guns are designed to kill people. Cars are not. Ted was not using the car for it’s intended purpose. Mass murders are using the guns for their intended purpose. Of course like most ‘backer chewing, two tooth gun nuts you probably can’t comprehend that.
Pilgrim
December 18th, 2012
12:52 pm
Why Kids Kill?
Tragedies attributed to People on Mind-Altering SSRI Drugs
(Drugs involved in the following incidents are indicated by parentheses.)
http://www.totalityofbeing.com/FramelessPages/Articles/violence.html
AR Owner
December 18th, 2012
12:55 pm
Sparta, first I own an AR 15.
Second, murderers are NOT using guns for their intended purpose.
Third, if you are defending Ted K, then you might want to reconsider who is the nut.
By the way, AR’s are good varmit guns – hogs, coyotes, etc…
AR Owner
December 18th, 2012
12:56 pm
Not to mention home-defense.
onlyinamerica
December 18th, 2012
12:59 pm
Actually Bubba, I comprehend that just fine. You might want to stop listening to CNN or FOX News or whomever you get your information from. Maybe you don’t comprehend two of the biggest catylsts of the reasons these incidents keep happening. The first is Moral Decay. Anything goes! Simulated sex on primetime television, violent video games, gangsta rap, etc. This is being fed to anyone that will take it – and they make sure you get it by the news crawls at the bottom of the screen and then repeat reels over and over. It’s mind control. Comprende? Second is the epidemic of mental illness and anti psychotic drugs that are being prescribed like candy. THESE are the real issues. When you decide you can handle the truth – which is that the media is designed to shock and terrify you. Think for yourself. Educate yourself on who are gun owners – LEGAL gun owners. And it may surprise you. In the meantime, I pity you, and hope you don’t ever look to my gun toting a** to save yours if you ever get in trouble! Good luck!
Sparta_Bubba
December 18th, 2012
1:01 pm
Hooty Goot that is the whole point. The Alaskans may have large caliber pistol strapped to their hip, not a 30 round automatic rifle. I’m not aware of anyone proposing control of pistols such as that. It’s the guns like what was used last Friday. You gun nuts go ballistic at the mere mention of any thing reasonable that involves restricting guns. You probably think it’s OK to park a tank or an anti aircraft gun in your driveway and is guaranteed by the 2nd amendment.
AR Owner
December 18th, 2012
1:03 pm
Bubba,
You simply are ignorant.
Buford Sowega
December 18th, 2012
1:03 pm
Oh, no–don’t let these ba’tards off the hook. Freedom Group was your dream conglomerate. These kings of the strip-and-flip tried to kill off Chrysler. Now they’ve ruined Marlin by closing the Connecticut plant and getting rid of “expensive” labor that actually knew how to build high quality traditional lever action rifles. They went for the big bucks and AR craze, so let them stew in the mess. Ba’tards.
Pilgrim
December 18th, 2012
1:15 pm
* Guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year — or about 6,850 times a day.1 This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.2
References:
1. Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, “Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense With a Gun,” 86 The Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Northwestern University School of Law, 1 (Fall 1995):164.
Dr. Kleck is a professor in the school of criminology and criminal justice at Florida State University in Tallahassee. He has researched extensively and published several essays on the gun control issue. His book, Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America, has become a widely cited source in the gun control debate. In fact, this book earned Dr. Kleck the prestigious American Society of Criminology Michael J. Hindelang award for 1993. This award is given for the book published in the past two to three years that makes the most outstanding contribution to criminology.
Even those who don’t like the conclusions Dr. Kleck reaches, cannot argue with his impeccable research and methodology. In “A Tribute to a View I Have Opposed,” Marvin E. Wolfgang writes that, “What troubles me is the article by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz. The reason I am troubled is that they have provided an almost clear-cut case of methodologically sound research in support of something I have theoretically opposed for years, namely, the use of a gun in defense against a criminal perpetrator…. I have to admit my admiration for the care and caution expressed in this article and this research. Can it be true that about two million instances occur each year in which a gun was used as a defensive measure against crime? It is hard to believe. Yet, it is hard to challenge the data collected. We do not have contrary evidence.” Wolfgang, “A Tribute to a View I Have Opposed,” The Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, at 188.
Wolfgang says there is no “contrary evidence.” Indeed, there are more than a dozen national polls — one of which was conducted by The Los Angeles Times — that have found figures comparable to the Kleck-Gertz study. Even the Clinton Justice Department (through the National Institute of Justice) found there were as many as 1.5 million defensive users of firearms every year. See National Institute of Justice, “Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms,” Research in Brief (May 1997).
As for Dr. Kleck, readers of his materials may be interested to know that he is a member of the ACLU, Amnesty International USA, and Common Cause. He is not and has never been a member of or contributor to any advocacy group on either side of the gun control debate.
2. According to the National Safety Council, the total number of gun deaths (by accidents, suicides and homicides) account for less than 30,000 deaths per year. See Injury Facts, published yearly by the National Safety Council, Itasca, Illinois.
Devil's Food Cake
December 18th, 2012
1:21 pm
1 child dying from obesity is 1 too many. Are you really going to try to quantify the degree of tragedy? Cmon, let them eat cake!
George
December 18th, 2012
1:31 pm
Well,Lets see how long this holds up,And for Mrs.Bush power and money rules this country.
That is not the only incident so please leave her alone thats happened a million times.Their is no criminal Justice system in this Country.Sad thing that happened in CT but it will not be the last.You can ban any weapon you but mass killings will continue it has be that way since the mass killing of the Indians.
Grumps
December 18th, 2012
1:34 pm
Will you people think!!!
Define “assault rifle”. If you mean the kind of weapon the military carries, a civilian can’t own most of them. They have a fully automatic mode, which means they shoot as long as you squeeze the trigger. Most civilians can’t own fully automatic weapons. You have to have a federal firearms license and that ain’t easy to get. The civilain version of the military weapons are single shot only. You have to pull the trigger once for each shot. They just look like military weapons.
“Lock your guns away”. Come on, man. An intruder is in your house and you have to say, “Will you please wait a minute. I need to get my gun from my gunsafe. Oh, and I need to get ammunition and load the gun, because I never keep a loaded gun in the house.” Get real. If you have a gun for home protection, you need it right there beside you. I prefer a shotgun for home defense,preferably a pump — the distinctive sound of a pump shotgun will run a lot of intruders off. Also, with an appropriately loaded shotgun, I have to worry less about my shot goint through a wall and killing an innocent by-sitter. But a handgun is certainly more portable. It’s not easy to carry a shotgun when you go for a walk. And carrying the shotgun might raise a few eyebrows. But a pocket pistol.. or a glock under your jacket in the small of your back? Nobody will know except the bad guys. And they will find out the hard way.
Devil's Food Cake
December 18th, 2012
1:34 pm
No assault riffles were used in the tragedy that occured on September 11, 2001
Grumps
December 18th, 2012
1:36 pm
going, not goint… typo
Devil's Food Cake
December 18th, 2012
1:39 pm
I am all for an assault riffle ban IF we can ban the millions of Illegal Aliens that are destroying our country. Sounds like an fair compromise to me!
Tag
December 18th, 2012
1:40 pm
Should we ban newspapers if they print things we don’t like?
Should we ban free speech if people say they don’t approve of the government?
Should we ban religions if they don’t conform?
Should we ban protest if they are unpopular?
Should we ban guns if madmen do mad things?
Machine Gun
December 18th, 2012
1:41 pm
Devils Advocate.
What I am trying to illustrate is that we are never going to be able to prevent a crazed person from getting a gun and shooting folks (sort of like –how do you stop a suicide bomber); however, it we make it harder for these CRAZED folks from obtaining Assault Weapons – then maybe just maybe their violent outburst will not have as much devisation as we have seen in Sandyhook.
I mean – this guys mother was able to buy a gun like this from Dicks sporting goods for god sake…….
We need to have some restrictions …that’s what I was trying to say..you’re right 1 child killed is 1 too many.
SUPPORT THE BAN ON ASSUALT WEAPONS NOW………
joet
December 18th, 2012
1:43 pm
Nerve gas. Thats the answer. Every one should be allowed to ARM themselves with nerve gas or a similar chemical weapon. You can’t miss that way. I’m sure that will fall under the 2nd amendment. teach all the good people to use and carry gas masks.
g
December 18th, 2012
1:49 pm
I know this will come off as a crazy statement, but one thing that is true of all of these school shootings is that the killer or killers eventually commit suicide. They are unable to face the world because they know what they are in the process of doing is wrong. I encourage anyone that is thinking of committing an atrocity like this to please just kill yourself now. I don’t feel sorry for you. I don’t want to attempt to heal your sick mind. I don’t care what your excuse is. I don’t care if you have parent issues. I don’t care if you have any number of mental problems that would “cause” this behavior. I want you and your sick mind gone from this world forever. But you are a coward that believes committing such acts will leave your sick mark on the world. You are wrong. Please just kill yourself ASAP.
Hooty Goot
December 18th, 2012
1:52 pm
Justineisu@12:41 — Nancy Lanz was a gun expert –
I beg to differ sir. If she was a gun expert she would have had her guns locked away where her mentally ill son could’nt have gotten to them.
Unintended Consequences .... Duh!!!
December 18th, 2012
1:58 pm
The real irony in the proposed gun control measures is the frenzied buying it has and will create. Is that what Barbara Feinstein intended when she proposed to reinstate the assault weapons ban? Well there you go. Good intentions gone bad. 30 million more assault weapons on the street.
Pandora’s box is open and each time one of the talking heads mentions gun control it feeds the frenzy. I promise you that you will be reading in the paper in February about record gun and ammunition sales in December and January. It’s inevitable.
southern hope
December 18th, 2012
1:59 pm
“just wondering” at 12;19. Thank you for (inadvertently) summing up why folks think they need guns.
Some people own guns because they are delusional (sorry for the harshness but I can’t think of another way to word it).
They imagine some moment when they can play the white knight, and rescue themselves or others from some bogeyman who will never appear, or at least appear in ideal circumstances.
And we endure all of the gun violence around us just for this: so someone can fantasize about being a hero.
beerad
December 18th, 2012
2:01 pm
That evil gun I can’t believe it did that. I’m so thankful my guns know better than to act like that.
Just Wondering
December 18th, 2012
2:01 pm
Sorry but they are already talking about the record numbers of guns being sold and that has been sold since last Friday.
dude
December 18th, 2012
2:09 pm
As someone working in Law enforcement for over 20 years, the laws banning high capacity magazines and assault rifles should be reinstated. I don’t belong to the NRA, and find the organization too right wing.
When I started as a cop in 1991, I was issued a S&W 9 mm, that was it. 20 something years later, I have to carry a 40 caliber sidearm on my belt, a backup gun on my ankle, Shotgun in the front seat, and a AR-15 in the trunk. plus I carry 2 boxes of extra ammo for each weapon. The streets have got more crazy and violent. I still worry about being ‘outgunned” when I am on the streets, as people in general are more violent and have less respect for authority. let’s hope we can move forward as a country and prevent anymore Sandy Hooks!
G19
December 18th, 2012
2:18 pm
I think there should be a national database for crimes like this and the perpetrators. In this data base all medical issues, all medications (for ADD, depression, psychotropic drugs, DUI, etc) video game use, music like violent rap music, family history, sexual abuse or child molestation, bullying can all be down loaded to show us the common link between all these murders. The link is NOT the gun, the link is in their mentally disturbed heads.
Guns are a tool and did not cause the murder. I think there is more of a link between the items noted above and these issues that should be analyzed and a common link found.
BTW, he did not get these guns legally. His mother should be blamed for his access to them. Lastly, the mall shooter last week killed himself when he saw a 22 year old with a concealed carrier license pull. The guy with the legal gun had the shooter in his sights and was assesing the surrounding to make sure he had a clear shot. This may not have been the reason he killed himself, but I’ll bet he knew he was about to go down one way or another.
G19????
December 18th, 2012
2:27 pm
What are your sources for the 22 year old with the CCW? I have not read that.
Just Wondering
December 18th, 2012
2:28 pm
@Southern Hope, Yes, I think you used the correct word for yourself (delusional) to think that these things will not happen to you. Just answer the question I asked and stop beating around the bush. Would you hate or Thank? Do you think I own and carry because I am looking to be a hero? If I protect my family from someone trying to harm them, then I do not consider myself a hero. I consider my self as being a FATHER, protecting his family. If by some reason I jump in to help my neighbor or someone else, do I consider myself to be a hero, no, I consider myself as being a FRIEND and a concerned citizen.
Does the bogeyman exist? Yes, he does. How do I know? I saw him first hand and you know what, when he saw my gun, what did he do? He pissed and crapped his pants, dropped his gun while running away and there was never a shot fired.
Keep believing this is a safe free world but I would gladly love to pick out a neighborhood for you to walk down, by yourself, at 2 AM and see just how many of the “residents” will come out to shake your hand and offer you a cup of coffee. If you last 5 minutes, I would gladly hand you a $100 bill. Let’s see if the bogeyman is real! Oh yea, don’t call on anyone, except the police, for help.
My guns protect and feed my family, friends and neighbors. I am no hero but rather I am a FATHER and a MAN that will not run, be a coward while someone else is trying to harm my Family,
Don'tLetMediaGuideYourThinking
December 18th, 2012
2:30 pm
Where’s there a ‘crazy’ will, there’s a way…
The Happy Land fire was an arson fire that killed 87 people trapped in an unlicensed social club called “Happy Land” (at 1959 Southern Boulevard) in the West Farms section of The Bronx, New York, on March 25, 1990. Most of the victims were young ethnic Hondurans celebrating Carnival.[1] Unemployed Cuban refugee Julio González, whose former girlfriend was employed at the club, was arrested shortly after and ultimately convicted of arson and murder.
Quake
December 18th, 2012
2:32 pm
I have a question for everyone, pro and not so pro gun. I understand owning a gun for protection of ones property and person. Totally get it. What I don’t get is what and why on earth anyone would need a gun with the capacity to fire 30 or 100 or however many rounds in 30 or 60 seconds. (Please forgive my obvious lack of specifics.) What is the purpose? Don’t flame me folks, it’s an honest question asking for an honest answer. Thanks.
G19
December 18th, 2012
2:36 pm
Clackamas mall shooter faced man with concealed weapon @ http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html
by: Molṑn Labé
seaann
December 18th, 2012
2:43 pm
After reading your comments. It is very clear that people are concerned about the terrible things that are happening because of this attachment to guns.
The bottom line is this, guns kill, animals, and people. No matter the circumstances. They were designed for that purpose.
You cannot legislate laws, into people’s heart. Proverbs 4:23 “safe guard the heart for out of it are the sources of life.” What is in a persons heart is what comes out. Jeremiah 17: 9 “the heart is treacherous and desperate.”
The world we live in is wicked.
1 John 5:19: the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” This evil force does not care how many people are killed; see what He did to Job’s children in Job 1:13-20. All 10 children were killed. Job had no idea why this was happening to him. Read the account Job Chapters 1& 2. That same force that caused that mess is the same one responsible for the untold violence today.
Does it really matter what laws are passed and what man tries to do, many are very sincere. Whatever they do is limited.
This evil force is behind the woes of the entire earth. The only one to correct this matter is the Maker of The Universe. “Jehovah God” Psalms 83:18. He is going to cut all of this off soon. Psalms 37: 10.
2 Timothy 3:1-5 fore told the times we are seeing. What we are seeing is the fulfillment of the prophecies written long ago. Very soon we will see and end to the violence that exists.
Genesis 6:11 shows the earth was filled with violence, just as today. The flood cleared up that mess and very soon Psalms 37:34 will be fulfilled.
All of this is out of man’s hands, they are only human, and cannot get to the root of the problem, only the Creator can.
You may not want to hear this, but that is the truth.” The whole truth and nothing but the truth”
G19
December 18th, 2012
2:46 pm
To G19???? You have not read it because it has not been widely reported. That is the problem. I personally know two people in ATL who shot intruders. One was in the storeroom of the vics business and the 2nd and totally seperate victim / incident was a home invasion. If i am not mistaken both intruders are no longer intruding.
That is enough reason for me to have CC.
kevrock
December 18th, 2012
2:48 pm
If guns kill people how do all those people that attend gun shows get out of there alive?
Dickie
December 18th, 2012
2:51 pm
You can’t ban assault weapons because the Justice Dept & the Attorney General won’t have anything to sell to the Mexican Drug Cartels.
Just Wondering
December 18th, 2012
2:53 pm
Quake, I did not buy my guns and ask for a large clip to go with the gun. It was already part of the package. There are a lot of people that may order larger clips and if so, that is fine with me.
Do I see a need for high capacity magazine’s, no, I do not see a reason for them except for Law Enforcement and the Military. Do I use my 30 rd clips, sure I do because first, that is all I have and second, when I target practice, I can shoot three times longer than I could with a 10 rd clip.
My guns are in a gun safe with locks on the triggers and if you would like to try to get into my safe, find it first and if you do, I will watch you try to open it. My ammo is in the open but what good is that going to do me? What am I going to do, throw a bullet at you?
Halftrack
December 18th, 2012
2:54 pm
People do not understand about evil. When 2 States legalize marijuana and vehicles began to kill innocents including families & children; what then? Our own government is complicit in gun violence. Look at the fast and furious program that it ran. Our own Attorney General is responsible for Border Agent deaths. How can we trust the Government with new laws when they are at fault for creating more evil by poor judgement.
rightwingextreme
December 18th, 2012
2:54 pm
Donald
December 18th, 2012
11:48 am
I don’t think guns should be banned but assault rifles and large capacity magazines should be banned for use and purchase by the general public.
You just banned them!
The Obamites are defining a large capacity magazine as anything over 10 rounds. Hope you don’t have any of these.
rightwingextreme
December 18th, 2012
2:56 pm
seaann
December 18th, 2012
2:43 pm
your post: AMEN!
Quake
December 18th, 2012
2:57 pm
Thanks, Just Wondering. I appreciate your taking the time to answer my question.
rightwingextreme
December 18th, 2012
3:00 pm
Quake
December 18th, 2012
2:32 pm
I have a question for everyone, pro and not so pro gun. I understand owning a gun for protection of ones property and person. Totally get it. What I don’t get is what and why on earth anyone would need a gun with the capacity to fire 30 or 100 or however many rounds in 30 or 60 seconds. (Please forgive my obvious lack of specifics.) What is the purpose? Don’t flame me folks, it’s an honest question asking for an honest answer. Thanks.
It’s three o’clock in the am…you hear your door being kicked in. You’re a whole lot scared and your nerves are shaking. You reach for your weapon. How many shots will it take to stop the bad guy? One? two? Are you good enough to stop with just a few or do you want the most you can get aimed at the bad guy?
debulker
December 18th, 2012
3:02 pm
Let’s be like Japan and ban all guns, so nothing will ever happen to their kids in school:
–
The Osaka School Massacre took place on June 8, 2001, at Ikeda Elementary School, an elite primary school affiliated with Osaka Kyoiku University in Osaka Prefecture, Japan.
At 10:15 that morning, 37-year-old former janitor Mamoru Takuma entered the school armed with a kitchen knife and began stabbing numerous school children and teachers. He killed eight children, mostly between the ages of seven and eight, and seriously wounded thirteen other children and two teachers.
–
Oops, I meant ban ALL GUNS AND Kitchen Knives.
G19, Got it. Thanks!
December 18th, 2012
3:05 pm
.
Just Wondering
December 18th, 2012
3:07 pm
rightwingextreme,
Just get a pump shotgun and when you chamber that first round, my guess is that you will not have to pull the trigger.
Quake
December 18th, 2012
3:07 pm
RWX – thanks. I’d like to think that it wouldn’t take 30 or 100 shots to at least scare the hell out of someone who probably isn’t expecting me to be armed. I certainly hope that none of us are ever in the situation that you describe.
debulker
December 18th, 2012
3:08 pm
Oops, also forgot, to protect all kids from future tragedies:
Also Ban GASOLINE!
Also:
Horrible school attack that occurred in China in 2006, when Bai Ningyang entered a kindergarten and killed 12 people, mostly small kids. During the Shiguan kindergarten attack, Ningyang poured gasoline on the floor, locked the door, and started a fire. The rampage of Mamoru Takuma has spawned a series of copycat crimes where spree killers have used knives.
G19
December 18th, 2012
3:28 pm
Quake, actually there are events and competition with AR’s, handguns and shotguns like Three Gun Nation. There are events that center around pistols and dont forget biathlon and skeet and trap shooting. There are also unsponsored events with a bunch of folks that just like to shoot. I have not hunted since I was a kid, there is just no reason for me to kill something I most likely will not eat. But I love the sport of guns. I think you either “get it” or you don’t. When I see an original Shelby Cobra, Ferrari or XK140 I appreciate them for more than just their speed. Same with guns, I appreciate them for more than just hunting or protection, but both are great reasons not to ban Competition Sport Rifles (thats what I call AR’s).
jimjones
December 18th, 2012
3:41 pm
Unbelievable how the AJC has covered this story. Pure left wing politics. I’ve been subscribing to the Sunday paper purely for the coupons, but now, even that will stop. I just can’t support their agenda any longer.
If you want to talk about killing innocent citizens, lets talk about the CAFE standards, and what it has done to the safety of the automobile. How many thousands of people have died for lower gas mileage in the name of clean air. If the Left really cared about human life they could easily ask for mandates to have safer, heavier cars, rather than fuel efficient cars. But I seriously doubt the AJC, or anyone else on the left has uttered a singe syllable toward that end.
Ultimately, none of what the left wants will come to pass as far as gun control is concerned, unless they’re able to turn over the second amendment with a 2/3 vote of Congress. And that won’t happen any time soon.
Hooty Goot
December 18th, 2012
3:42 pm
justwondering@3:07 — That’s what I’ve got. 12 guage magnum chamber. I keep mine locked away in the gun safe with the key close by. Yes ! It is loaded with #1 buckshot in the magazine but does not have a round in the chamber. I also have a .357 mag that I keep by my bedside at night and in the safe during the day. I also realize that in the event of a home invasion or any other life threatening trouble it is MY JOB to protect my family.
Quake
December 18th, 2012
3:47 pm
Thanks, G19. While I was thinking more in terms of protection and defense, it absolutely didn’t occur to me that there is a sporting component to guns. Guess I’m in the “doesn’t get it” category. Again, thanks.
sam
December 18th, 2012
3:51 pm
No one would have even dreamed of shooting a child in the 1950’s, much less dozens. It is our culture, or lack of it, now that has caused young people to be disassociated from those around them, unaware of appropriate responses to civil conversation. People with their noses in their i-Phones better wake up, look around, raise their children, care about the guy next door. Until those things happen, all heck is going to continue to break loose, multi-firing weapons or not.
Another AR Owner
December 18th, 2012
4:17 pm
The semi auto AR type rifle has been available for civilian ownership since the early 1960’s. Why is it now that it is 50 years old that it has suddenly become a scourge to society? The issue is obviously not the weapon, but the social denigration of our youth. Oh, he had a “personality disorder.” I don’t think so. Crazy is crazy and it needs to be called what it is, even if it isn’t correct medical or psychological terminology.
I bought an AR in 2008 because I was authorized to carry one as a certified police officer. The department required the weapons to be personally owned by the officer possessing it. Does this mean now that I’m retired from law enforcement that I have to give it up? I still have it for home defense and for target shooting. I don’t hunt, but I’ve been trained on it by some of the best combat firearms instructors in the country.
We need to rely less on pure emotion and figure out a solution to the senseless violence some other way than immediately screaming to get rid of something that criminals will always have available. Mexico is an example. These types of weapons and the ammunition are illegal there, but the cartels still manage to massacre citizens by the dozens at a time.
I’m done and someone else can have my soap box.
defend life and property
December 18th, 2012
4:22 pm
If one of the teachers had been carrying a gun and shot the evil dead, we wouldnt be having this discussion and you LEFT wing idiots would be talking about Global warming. Thank you and God Bless Newtown
G19
December 18th, 2012
4:29 pm
To Another AR Owner, you are correct and the last paragraph says it all. We have a US Marine chained to his bed in one of the worst prisons in Mexico. His crime, he had an antique shotgun. Declared it to the border guard and the guard gave him a form to complete. After he had crossed the border he showed the form he had been given to a Mexican official…….He has been in a Mexican prison since August.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/12/17/gun-that-landed-marine-jon-hammar-in-mexican-prison-was-legal-says-veteran/
Contractor
December 18th, 2012
4:29 pm
Douglas,
I’ve got news for you bubba, a shot gun, rifle, revolver, or any gun with a clip can kill just as many and just as easy as an assault rifle. It has nothing to do with aim or any of your other pathetic excuses. The day people like yourself question the Constitution is the day your vote should not count. Who are you to question the very foundations of this country, things citizens of this country have died to protect? It just goes to show your uneducated insane opinion on the matter when you start questioning the ideals that made this the greatest country to ever exist. Go warm you up a bottle and take a nap.
blkshepherd
December 18th, 2012
4:30 pm
Too little Too Late..there are 26 people DEAD because folks who find it a Must to have high performance weapons laying around in their homes. Sounds more like stroke my ego with a K47. I own a 38special which is hidden out of sight. That is MORE than enough to handle anyone Not invited to my home. I dont need a high powered weapon to take you out if your trying to harm me. No One unless you are on a SWAT team and a mission should have access to high powered weapons. This lady knowing she had a disturbed son kept those weapons at her home all the while KNOWING she has a disturbed individual living in the same house. That was Dumb Crazy and Sad. I grieve for the children and their parents..but not so much for her because She simply should have had all those weapons REMOVED from the premises.
1776
December 18th, 2012
5:08 pm
To all you collectivist, authoritarian, sheeplized lemmings whining about “rounding up guns”….you’ll make wonderful slaves. The 2nd Amendment was devised to protect citizens from an overly empowered, over-reaching government. The 2nd Amendment protects the 1st you sanctimonious, limp wristed bedwetters! Learn your history ! Thomas Jefferson wisely stated…..”When the People fear the government, it is tyranny & when the government fears the people, there is liberty!”.
NewsToMe
December 18th, 2012
6:07 pm
*we wouldnt be having this discussion and you LEFT wing idiots would be talking about Global warming*
———————————————————————————————-
Global warming is a liberal problem due to all the hot air their mouths pollute our planet with
… ad naseum.
eljeran
December 19th, 2012
11:17 am
guns dont kill people. people with guns kill people. ignorant, fear driven, angry, ugly, hateful, spiritually dead, selfish, people with guns. Those children would be alive today if it werent for guns. Adam would not have tried to figure out another way to kill them if he had not had guns.
Hermanator
December 24th, 2012
10:43 pm
Hey guys one thing that the media has not really mentioned is that the AR was never in the school. All the people who lost their lives were shot with one of pistols that he had with him. The AR was in the car that he drove to the school and it was found by the police after the shooting.
Q
December 25th, 2012
8:01 am
Just because you only hear about the guns from the news when kids get shot, does not mean that this is what they are for. Just keep watching the show and step to the puppet masters tunes, your ideas aren’t yours anymore.
lourox
December 25th, 2012
2:35 pm
The 2nd amendment is outdated. It was created in 1791, lol… when the most popular gun was the flintlock. The amendment needs upgraded tp modern reality. Comments posted here is proof that defense of the second amendment is merely being used self-delusional gun lovers to justify their extraordinarily hazardous fetish.