U.S. workers lag in vacation time
Memorial Day weekend is widely considered the kickoff of the American vacation season.
But are we taking as many vacations these days — especially when compared with the rest of the industrialized world?
Only 57 percent of U.S. workers use up all of the days they’re entitled to, compared with 89 percent of workers in France, a recent Reuters/Ipsos poll found, according to a CNN story.
What’s more, we get fewer vacation days.
“The United States is the only advanced economy in the world that does not guarantee its workers paid vacation,” writes the Center for Economic and Policy Research in a 2007 report, “No-Vacation Nation.” The center is a progressive think-tank based in Washington, D.C.
By contrast, European countries establish legal rights to at least 20 days of paid vacation per year, the report says.
The gap between paid time off in the U.S. and much of the world grows larger if legally mandated paid holidays are included, the report says. The U.S. offers none, but most of the rest of the world’s rich countries offer between five and 13 paid holidays per year.
Also, the report says, almost one in four Americans have no paid vacation and no paid holidays.
According to government survey data, the average worker in the private sector receives about nine days of paid vacation and about six paid holidays per year, the report says. That’s less than the minimum legal standard set in the rest of world’s rich economies, excluding Japan, the report says.
The paid vacation and paid holidays that employers do make available is distributed unequally, the report says. Lower-wage workers are less likely to have any paid vacation (69 percent) than higher-wage workers are (88 percent).
How’s your situation? In this economy, are you skipping some vacation days? Why?
When you’re on vacation, do you find yourself working? Why?
Here is a link to a PDF of the full report.
- Henry Unger, The Biz Beat
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161 comments Add your comment
Thomas
May 29th, 2011
2:13 pm
I have been at my Job for over 10 years and I have about 25 days off. That includes AAH, VACATION, and Sick days. Also as of this year I have two floating holidays since we are not allowed to have the day after Thanksgiving off .
Bacchus
May 29th, 2011
2:23 pm
Having worked for American subsidiaries of European companies, I am very familiar with the differences in time off between colleagues on either side of The Pond.
Who wouldn’t enjoy the 4-6 weeks that Europeans, Australians, Canadians, and pretty much every other country in the developed world (except the U.S. and Japan) gets. You can schedule 1-2 week segments throughout the year and plan your work around them. You get something to look forward to after working hard on a project, etc. The only drawback is that most of Europe is “on holiday” from July until the end of August, so it is nearly impossible to get things done collectively with colleagues based there.
With 1-2 weeks being the American norm, I feel that the facade of “hard work” tends to become “inefficient work” with week after week after week until you’re completely exhausted without any time off. When it comes time to take a vacation, we try to cram a trip, home improvement projects, etc. all into one week and take the remaining days around Christmas or Thanksgiving. The result is your return to the office saying “I need a vacation from my vacation.”
That being said, I favor the European system, but in no way would support it becoming a legal right in the United States. Free enterprise rules here. The trick is to find a company that offers liberal amounts of time off.
Lazy Fair
May 29th, 2011
2:24 pm
It still amazing me at how many of us are willing to remain blind at the facts.
On the subject of America: this country was founded by immigrants and therefore, what didn’t work for them in their old country certainly isn’t forced upon us here. The flip side of the coin shows that with each new arrival, we embraced changes to our old structure without giving up the fundamental of our Constitutional guaranteed rights. If the European model appears to be working in the case of vacations, let’s adopt it. Corporate entities do this all the time…remember globalization and corporate restructurings? Oh, that’s right, all of us are still working.
Further more, in the Declaration of Independence we have this memorable line: “That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.” This doesn’t just apply to national, sovereign governments, this also apply to “corporate government” as well to the degree that profit taking become supra to the corporation’s responsibilities as a citizen.
Secondly, the American worker earns (not makes) on par with children in a sweat shop overseas. Earns describes what you are able to acquire in exchange for your labor – makes is the number you tout in employment contract consideration discussions. Think about the declining value dollar over the past 30 years. If you look at the stats the Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA) publishes, you’ll note that real production costs are (and since mechanization began in this country) declining. So, that means pricing via monetary intervention is cause the artificial rise in prices. The difference, therefore, between you and “them” is that you are “assisted” by a central bank to “help” you afford what you have. But you knew this…right?
Barring governmental interventions, the concept of vacations in the US is outdated. There is literally no excuse – literally no reason for you to leave on vacation and come back to a pile of work (unless you have a considerably large pending folder). In your absence, corporate profits continue to rise because there is a larger worker base on which to spread essential, profit driven tasks. Not true if you own your own business, but manageable to the degree that you are efficient in completing important (not urgent) tasks.
It’s time to wake up and see this situation for what is. Let’s stop playing the semantics game and get down to real solutions for real people. Our government needs our help in fixing the many problems it has, our corporations need us provide them with a citizenship class to review civic and economic responsibility, and we need a swift kick in the pants to jump start it. I’m doing my part: how about you?
Grateful
May 29th, 2011
2:29 pm
One of the reasons why leaving my company is unimaginable. I have 23 days of time off not counting the 8 company holidays not counting no specified limit to sick time (attendance is linked to productivity). Anyway–it doesn’t seem like Unger is doing any work. This is a recycled story, not effort to publish.
Chris
May 29th, 2011
2:43 pm
When on vacation management will contact employees with “important questions” or worse yet call you about work or for work on mandated furlough days!
Truth Squad
May 29th, 2011
2:56 pm
The truth is that while American workers have become more productive, their wages have not increased proportionally. Add that to all the tax cuts given to the well-off, and we have the mess that we have now. Working people, and their families, have been robbed now for decades.
Sadly, we still have lots of citizens who still believe in aristocracy, a noble class, who are entitled and empowered to whatever they want, and in return, they grant us a job, if and when they so desire, and pay us what they want rather than what we produced. This mentality is especially strong in the South where it is not hard to see why slavery was so highly regarded. The idea that some people are disposable is still cherished by many.
You can read it in the comments on these blogs. There is a large group of people who really don’t believe in the “we the people” concept. Americans are starting to wake up to it though.
American workers should lead the world in quality of life at home and at work. Individuals and small businesses should have access to a market unruled by huge multinational corporations and their multinational antiworker trade agreements negotiated by politicians scared to do the right thing less they be labeled “liberal” or “socialist”.
But we are now at a crossroads. The era of laissez-faire economics is fast coming to an end. Most people have realized that it is not only their jobs are disposable, but their very survival. This country cannot survive without a thriving and accessible Middle Class and Entrepreneurial Class both of which are under heavy pressure despite what the politicians, and the misguided, hard-hearted voters who keep electing them, tell you.
I predict that after decades of assault on working people, and now retired people, we are going to see more policies such as more mandated paid vacation and sick leave. We’re going to see a return to more unionized workforce and one that works better with employers because they’ve seen and learned from the mistakes made in the past. Look for more and increased collective bargaining rights during President Obama’s second term.
People do not wish to be disposable and will no longer allow the federal and state governments to enact laws and promulgate policies that do not have the best interests of the nation’s workers (and their families) at heart. People also want to be able to retire with dignity and not have to worry that some power-seeking political prostitute (no offense to prostitutes) is going to please his/her rich masters by ripping off retired people.
More vacation time is coming. There simply is no reason other than greed to not have more well rested and well paid workers.
TrishaDishaWarEagle
May 29th, 2011
2:58 pm
OK this is why Europe madates vacation time off and limits legal work week hours…Their socialist economies can NOT compete head to head with the US and ASIA(especially ASIA , now , at least..but with USA in the past) and these policies were implemented to create employment..3 people necessary to handle the job of 2, because without this you get spain today..25% true unemployment..and a populous ready to stick a pitchfork up your but if you are in the government.
So, to sum it up, the REASON for Europe’s work rules is European inefficiency
VoiceofReason
May 29th, 2011
3:02 pm
Politicalman – you are the same guy who sues when you spill hot coffee on yourself. As human beings we are entitled only to what we earn through hard work. If you want unions, move to Detroit. The economy is thriving there.
TrishaDishaWarEagle
May 29th, 2011
3:02 pm
Goooooo DANICA!!
Big Nick
May 29th, 2011
3:04 pm
Well maybe if we American workers didn’t have to pay for all of Obama’s Leftwing Lazy Looters and Illegals, we could enjoy an extra day of vacation…
Babs
May 29th, 2011
3:09 pm
Glad to see some new comments on this topic over the weekend. Dr. R, you are totally correct. Bob Walters, I love ya and the Tea Party. You had the backbone to say it, and I agree with you, things are going to be a chang’in come 2012. All that feel they’re entitled to what they want will find out that they have to “earn” it first. With a little creativity, they should be able to manage the balance between work and pleasure. Now, LazyFair, don’t you know that your phrase, “corporate government” is an oxymoron. Once again, the government has no right to dictate to corporations how they should run themselves. Corporations are not designed to employee anyone unless they have a need to fulfill, in which they create a position (yes, they own it, not you), and pay someone to perform the duties. Whatever benefits they offer is also up to them. Companies will ultimately compete with each other to attract the “best” employees. Also, where you got the idea that a central bank was responsible for giving people something is absurd. A central bank is nothing more than a cartel made up of the most wealthy individuals in order to control the finances of governments throughout the world. Go back to a previous post where I suggested you read, “The Creature From Jekyll Island”. This explains more about banking, and I do believe it would benefit you and your misunderstanding of what its role is in the world. BTW, it is the most dangerous concept there is.
Truth Squad
May 29th, 2011
3:19 pm
Only people ignorant of facts keep misrepresenting how US. productivity and growth compares to Europe and Asia, and more importantly, why. The idea that if we were mandated a few weeks of vacation time that we could no longer compete is a sad testament to willful ignorance.
European growth has been on par with U.S. growth despite their union, despite their social safety net, despite their more worker-friendly policies. Asia has more growth because there is more room to grow when countries begin to industrialize. The facts are right there for those not too lazy to use Google.
We have people who still believe you live to work rather than work to live. They are also the people who will boast about their beliefs in “family values” and such. Perhaps their overwork is part of the reason their comments are so angry, bitter, and counterfactual?
Grateful
May 29th, 2011
3:24 pm
@ Bob Walters. I work for a Fortune 100 company and you are way off base. Executive levels of management are now running quarterly reports on vacation utilization and reporting down that managers need to manage the their staff better in ENCOURAGING people to take time off. The crunch comes end of 3rd quarter because there is a more insistent tone in regards people taking time off. Why? Because a burned out workforce who has “sacrificed” is a workforce less productive, less happy and more likely to be transient. Talent rentention is important as well as training investment. Since time off is a correlation to productive staff our company has provided more time off than the average American company, flexible summer hours so people can take advantage of the season without eating into earned time off and a push for time off to be used: all of it by end of year.
Truth Squad
May 29th, 2011
3:25 pm
Oh, and I also say, “go Tea Party”!
Please nominate one of your people for president. Palin would be such a wonderful nominee don’t you think? Surely she’ll beat that Hussein guy!
I hope there is a Tea Party candidate on the ticket for every office in the land in 2012. I cannot think of a better way to hasten the kind of change we need in this country.
Go Tea Go! Go Tea Go!
Babs
May 29th, 2011
3:26 pm
BTW, for all the pro-union people out there, I ran across a book in B&N last year. I’m sure you’ve all read either “Main Street” or “Babbitt”, or both while in school at some point in time. Sinclair Lewis wrote a more obscure book called, “It Can’t Happen Here”. This was written before the other two. It is written as a parody, but totally describes the mentality of the complacent masses. Before the end of the book, people have lost their choices in everything, the media is controlled by the government, and unionized brown-booted thugs are the law enforcement of the land. When these issues were being discussed by characters in the book, the overwhelming conclusion was, “it’ can’t happen here”, meaning the US. Well, it did before anyone acknowledged what was happening. Unions have been outdated for decades and are no longer necessary due to gov’t. regulations. The only reason they’re still in power is because they pay the progressive party to keep them in power. Over 60% of union members do not like to where their dues are going. The fat cats that “represent” the unions don’t care about their members. They’re literally stealing from the members and doing exactly what they want with their forced dues. Reminds me of the gov’t. raising taxes to spend on their welfare/entitlement programs, of which we don’t have control over. Look at what unions did for the American automotive industry. If that isn’t a prime example of a concept gone awry, I don’t know what is.
Iconoclast
May 29th, 2011
3:38 pm
@Truth Squad: You’re spot on! If we don’t stand up for ourselves & our rights, who will?
@ Babs: Yes, the masses are complacent, but not in the way you think. They’ve been brainwashed into thinking that working themselves to the bone to enrich the people at the top is the noblest goal in life, when nothing could be further from the truth.
WTF
May 29th, 2011
3:52 pm
What does this article have to do with Unions?? I take all my vacation days, that’s what they’re there for!! Life is to short to not live it!! We think our jobs are so important that they can’t be done without us, But if you dropped dead today, the company is not going go fold up, it’s going to keep right on going, so they can keep right on going while I take a vacation!!
TrishaDishaWarEagle
May 29th, 2011
3:58 pm
I am more materialistic than most people. Money does buy me happiness, always has, always will. I have only had 1 “employee” job, part time while in college. I have always worked as a contract engineer since graduation, project to project. The harder I work to come in under budget and on time, the more bonus I get. Thats real incentive..a few days off, not so much.
Life is friction..Money is grease..(Trisha)
Bandit
May 29th, 2011
4:00 pm
I work for Ingles a 200 store grocery chain in the southeast. We get only 5 holidays, zero personal days and 5 sick days per year (but you have to be out 5 straight days to qualify to use any of it!).
Really weak!
Babs
May 29th, 2011
4:06 pm
Oh, that age-old class envy about enriching the people at the top. If you strive to do well, you can be at the top too. It’s called land of “opportunity”, not entitlements folks. Why do you think small businesses employ a larger portion of the working class than large corporations? Since so many are intent on bashing the corporate world, then try working for a small business. Oh, I forgot, you may not be able to get all the benefits you want, but you may be a lot happier in your working environment. I place people in the executive search arena. If it weren’t for people at the top that make it possible for the rest of you whiners to have jobs, what would you do, work for the gov’t.? The bottom line is this, it is strictly a company’s goal to make profits, period. They are not professional baby-sitters. If you are part of an organization that increases the company’s productivity, then you are compensated according to what the company deems fair market value. If you rank high in skills, then you have room for negotiation. If you’re average, then you will be compensated accordingly. Life is not fair nor are we all born equal. Living in this country is what has made it possible for people, regardless of background, to achieve what they want.
Joe Biden
May 29th, 2011
4:07 pm
The stimulus is working !!!
Gee
May 29th, 2011
4:15 pm
Babs- you are a complete idiot. Are you on the Tea Party’s payroll? You continually site all these Fox faux facts as if they are truth. And as for Congressman’s Ryan’s plan to terminate Medicare- I must ask you, what profit-driven insurance company out there would want to take a voucher from a 65 year old- even a healthy one? Answer, none!
Keon
May 29th, 2011
4:16 pm
I see we are going back to the industrial revolution. People aren’t important, only profits. If you don’t like it there’s the door…start your own company… Only if you don’t come from money, you don’t have money, and you can’t get a loan for the company…good luck. I’m sure we will hear some people start saying that we need to get rid of anti-trust laws as well. In addition to that. I give you a job, but you need to supply your own equipment and work space. It’s crazy how people keep saying on here you have to earn a vacation and that you only get what you earn. That’s a lie from the right. The people with the vacation don’t necessarily EARN it. How can you truely EARN vacation anyway? You are either granted vacation or you aren’t. You only earn your salary/pay. It’s like they said before… We as Americans are working harder and longer and not seeing the rewards…so it’s crazy that people are saying we have to earn it…when we have already proven our selves worthy!!!
Iconoclast
May 29th, 2011
4:16 pm
“I place people in the executive search arena.”
That tells me everything I need to know.
TrishaDishaWarEagle
May 29th, 2011
4:20 pm
@Babs “Life is not fair nor are we all born equal. Living in this country is what has made it possible for people, regardless of background, to achieve what they want.”
100% agree’d ,and as Ferris Bueller might put it, It’s our free market principles which make it possible for people like us, to tolerate people like them
Babs
May 29th, 2011
4:20 pm
Hey Gee, you must watch Fox News to be so knowledgeable about it. What I really find interesting is that Truth Squad singles out Sarah Palin to possibly be the Republican candidate. Evidently, someone is NOT keeping up with the news. Now Trisha understands how the world works and becomes successful.
Gee
May 29th, 2011
4:31 pm
Babs, I do watch Fox News to try to understand nut cases like yourself. I do NOT undersand you people however. Don’t you realize that you are being manipulated by the corporations and/or people who make over $300,000 a year? Your philosophy simply does not work for most of us. You can yell “Liberty & Freedom” all you want but you are being USED and don’t even know it!
Babs
May 29th, 2011
4:39 pm
Trish, you and I think alike. In my business, I have to work according to the times I can speak to prospective candidates for jobs. Therefore, I work with clients during the day and a bit during evenings and weekends with candidates. Guess what, it’s what I choose to do. Believe me, putting in those extra hours pays off. If people want 9-5 jobs, that’s great because they are needed, but they shouldn’t complain about those “at the top” making more money. After all, those at the top have a much greater responsibility and huge pressures to keep or get a company moving in the right direction to be competitive and profitable. It’s American, we’re a free-market society, and that’s why so may have flocked here in hopes of a better life. For those that think it’s better in other countries, hit the road, then let us know how it’s working for ya! BTW, Gee, Ryan’s plan is NOT to do away with Medicare. If you have reviewed it, you would know that. Sounds like a parrot is running around somewhere.
Freddy The Freeloader
May 29th, 2011
4:42 pm
I wonder is foreign workers are able to “Cash In” like California state employees can –A California Prison Doc was able to cash in his leave for over $620,000 when he retired.
Some State of California lifeguards make over $100,000/year and are able to take their vacation days during the peak summer seasons and some lifeguards have been able to cash in their vacation time at retirement for lump some payments of over $200,000.
Babs
May 29th, 2011
4:51 pm
It’s okay Gee, I can see the wealth envy flowing from those words. I don’t understand the entitlement mindset anymore than you understand my “work for what you want” attitude. When you mention being used, just remember the term, “useful idiots”, coined by Stalin. In your redistribution of wealth mindset, keep in mind what a wonderful guy he was, not to mention the numbers of people he had killed! Hey Freddy, we’d all be better off if CA would just slide into the Pacific. Their radical liberal views have just about put them in bankruptcy, then they’ll yell and scream for the Feds (our tax money) to bail them out.
TrishaDishaWarEagle
May 29th, 2011
4:52 pm
@Babs..yep I am working on a project today, and will be tommorrow.. I average about 70-75 hr weeks, but so does my Fiance..thats why we get along and I love him. I do this because I intend to retire between 45 and 50 (and don’t make me laugh about Social Security…I mean real retirement ).
If some people want to unionize, hey ..its a free country, unionize..but we should have a clear law that nobody has to join as a precondition of work at a particular firm. No closed union shops..although I have to say, I think market competition from Asia will kill those off soon enough. I have an upcoming project which will involve me going to Macau at least once, probably twice..You can enjoy life AND make money, people.
Dewaine
May 29th, 2011
4:52 pm
Yes, The US does lag in vacation time. It also lags behind in work performance. People do not stay on the job long enough to have adequate vacation time. Also, we are somewhat competitive. We cannot hire the people who are not qualified for work – ie students who can barely make it in high school. The high schools of today are glorified kindergartens.
Babs
May 29th, 2011
5:00 pm
Trisha, do you work in the IT industry? Most of my experience in the placement business has been in the IT arena. Dewaine is correct about high schools, and we won’t even go on about college educations, or should I say, indoctrinations.
Truth Squad
May 29th, 2011
5:11 pm
I didn’t “single out” Sarah Palin, I asked a question. “Wouldn’t she be a wonderful nominee?” If you disagree, then say so. If you agree, then tell us. It’s real simple, and you don’t have to lie and say people said something they didn’t say.
I don’t care which candidate get’s the nomination because they are going to lose, and it’s appears they will lose big time.
Citizens in other states do not like stripping others of their right to bargain for things like vacation time and pay. People around the nation are not buying into the “entitlement reform” scam any longer either and it’s a dumb political move.
Americans want sound fiscal policy and they know this country isn’t really too broke to take care of retired workers, the disabled, widows and orphans, the long-term unemployed. No, if we can afford to give tax breaks to the rich and well-connected, then that money can be just as easily used for other purposes. Americans also are tired of shifting the tax burden onto working people while big government pursues policies that rob workers for the wages and benefits they earn.
There are lots of people who did the right things, played by the rules, worked hard, and are now getting screwed. Some before they retired, others after they retired, others before they even got a foothold in the workforce. That doesn’t add up and it puts the country on unsound footing.
More and more, Americans are rejecting Social Darwinism because it will destroy this country from the inside out. Some people were ok with it until it was their turn to get the short end. I look forward to 2012 and beyond as the country begins to right itself from decades of darwinistic social and economic policies. The country has been here before, and always chooses to do right by workers in the end. But don’t worry, doing right by workers means there will be more money to be made and the rich will be just fine.
Babs
May 29th, 2011
5:23 pm
You did single out Palin in your question, but that doesn’t matter. What does is that you don’t have a clear view of what Socialism is. It’s what our Marxist president is attempting at every step. That old, worn out mantra of tax breaks is bogus. The wealthy are paying a ton for the 47% that don’t pay any tax, yet are living off the country in the welfare services provided. What the progressives call tax breaks equates to not raising the percentage of taxes already being paid. Speaking of tax breaks, if the Feds wouldn’t tax corporations so much (as we are the highest taxed in the world), we could have jobs and manufacturing coming back to this country in a heartbeat. You have fallen on the “big bad corporate America” bandwagon. If you read, “The Road to Serfdom” by Hayek, it goes into great detail regarding what happens when Socialism bleeds into the free market.
Gee
May 29th, 2011
5:34 pm
OK Babs. I shouldn’t call you a nut job- that doesn’t help the situation. But you shouldn’t equate me with “Stalin”. And don’t acuse me of wealth envy either- I make over six figures a year and do OK considering the economy. I am certainly not jealous of rich people. I like my life. I am only stating what I see as fair and balanced. Corporations get by with little regulation & do not pay a fair share of taxes in this country and they skew the conversation on Fox and in your Tea Party blogs with enormous unreported sums of money. Oh & by the way, CA is on the way back- revenues are up signiificantly this year. Their problems stem from a Property Tax propostition years ago which keeps them from raising property taxes-even when land values have skyrocketed-not from overspending.
Babs
May 29th, 2011
5:52 pm
Let’s look at who represents CA, Pelosi, Boxer, Feinstein, among others. They’ve just done an excellent job of handling CA’s economy. Corporations are being regulated more and more every day. Now that’s not to say it isn’t totally their fault. They’ve fallen into the PC mindset of government mandates. What do you think a “fair share” of payment should be for taxes on a percentage basis? We are the most highly taxed of any industrialized nation. A poll was recently taken of corporate CEOs, with results being: 1) over 60% said they would put offices back in the US if taxes were cut, and 2) over 40% said they would bring back manufacturing facilities – those heavy taxes are the main reason for down-sizing, and levying taxes is nothing more than legalized theft (some would interpret the Constitution as saying it’s illegal). Our current president is as anti-corporate as any that have come before him. He’s more than a duplicate of Woodrow Wilson, whom tried all of this before, from the bogus health care scare to the global warming indoctrination. All means of draining the masses of buying power making it easier to bring the US into Soros’ “one world government” where he is God. If you’ve ever listened to Soros, he sincerely believes he is a god.
Truth Squad
May 29th, 2011
5:57 pm
Hayek, really? First of all, you shouldn’t assume that I have or have not read. It might clue us in on how it can be that you cannot tell the difference between asking a question and “singling out” someone. Inquisition,is not exclusion, especially given that the context of the question dealt with an entire party’s slate of candidates. One so well read should be able to discern the difference, no?
Are you now going to extol the virtues of known sociopath Ayn Rand as well? You can save it for those easily impressed.
Like, I said, distractions such as hurling labels such as “Marxist”,and “socialist”, just demonstrates that you either do not know what those terms mean, or you have suboptimal understanding of this country’s political system, it’s people, and the Constitution.
2012 is coming and we’ll all bare witness as to whether or not more people vote against their interests, than for them. My money is on the latter.
TrishaDishaWarEagle
May 29th, 2011
6:01 pm
no, their problem stems from increased social spending beyond those revenues which are provided by the taxpayer. Government always expects You to do with less income(after they increase taxes and steal more of your income) but they never expect to have to scale back services to fit into the revenue window provided. CA is not on the way back..they are continuing to rack up huge debt in the form of federal shortfall funding but that has to be paid back eventually , the same as the state and muni bonds that CA will default on (I recommend reading Merideth Whitney’s gloomy forecast for state and Municipal bond defaults in the coming years
Gee
May 29th, 2011
6:02 pm
Babs- you have got to quit quoting Glenn Beck or I will have to call you a nut job again. And please don’t ask US corporate CEO’s what they think. The CEO’s here rake in twice as much money as the CEO’s in any of the other Western countries. They will say anything and you and Glenn Beck with quote them.
Truth Squad
May 29th, 2011
6:04 pm
And yet California use to be a red state. Now it will never be red for a long time (and there still is no shortage of people who would live there if they could despite all the craziness).
The same process will repeat itself in several large states including Texas. At that point, the road to the White House becomes blocked to Republicans for at last a generation or two.
So get all the talking points out that you can. Destiny is calling and it doesn’t look good for the social darwin sect in this country. Perhaps the Koch’s and others will buy y’all a small country, or nice island to live on and you can live in bliss as you demonstrate to the world a superior economic and political system unencumbered by liberal bias and all that?
TrishaDishaWarEagle
May 29th, 2011
6:19 pm
@Truth Squad
“Destiny is calling and it doesn’t look good for the social darwin sect in this country”
People who exist at the mercy of government fat(public assistance) will always be lifes losers. The sad thing is, many are content with that. Darwinian theory exists intra-species as well as between species. The fact that you, or even a majority of voters,may decide that you want to subsidize the failed lives of others, does not change the laws of nature. Life choices and Nature have picked , to a large degree, the winners and losers in life. Welfare does not end natural selection by artificially protecting those that nature desires to weed out…it only prolongs the inevitable.
TrishaDishaWarEagle
May 29th, 2011
6:21 pm
The more that the leech crowd vote themselves from the productive, the more the productive will avoid, shelter, and flat out evade taxation..so knock yourselves out.
Babs
May 29th, 2011
6:23 pm
I find it interesting that one of you mentions Rand, and the other Glenn Beck, of which I’ve not said a word. I guess you’re on the offensive now. No, Truth Squad, I didn’t insinuate whether you read or not, just mentioned the Serfdom because it explains, so well, what happens when government mandates what the private sector can and cannot do. Gee, what’s your point regarding American CEOs making more than others?
Babs
May 29th, 2011
6:31 pm
TruthSquad, you can call Rand anything you want. I don’t agree with her on a couple of things and believe she does contradict herself some. While not being a member of her cult following, I will say that she knew better than anyone the rewards of capitalism vs. communism because she lived in both. Amazing that the story she tells in “Atlas” is coming true after 50 years. There are already people taking their savings and putting it in other countries in the event they have to move to avoid living in an all-out Socialist state. Condemn wealth all you want, but once it leaves, the only things left are the sycophants that have perpetually lived off the backs of the working class. They will then have the government they put in office, one that will turn them out as fast as they reeled them in.
Babs
May 29th, 2011
6:44 pm
Trish, you’re correct, once again. Okay gang, for that looming question about Palin, my answer is no. I really like her and her values, but I don’t think she is the person for the position. I think she serves the conservatives in the best light by doing what she does best, keeping the message going and having the freedom to do it without being in the confines of a political position.
Truth Squad
May 29th, 2011
6:46 pm
People who go around talking in code (i.e, “social spending”) is what is wrong. Instead of saying social spending, just say which programs you’re talking about. Police and firefighters are social spending are they not? Well you guys are cutting them out. Teachers; they are social spending and you’re cutting them too. But the holy grail is really the New Deal and Great Society programs, isn’t it?
Well people don’t want cuts to programs like Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid.Granny doesn’t want a voucher or coupon to take to the doctor’s office. Workers under 55 don’t want to destroy a program they know is working and they’ll need some day. The vast majority of people do not want to turn Social Security over to Wall Street.
And yes, starting in 2014, people will not want to give up their “Obamacare” and return to the days when health insurance companies dictated to people instead of the other way around.
That you folks cannot just skip all the code and talking points and just say that you believe in “every man your himself” demonstrates they you know, at some level, you are wrong. So you do things like call people socialist, or insist that there is a liberal boogeyman on every corner trying to let in illegal immigrants to drop “anchor babies”, “leech” off you and turn your children gay!
The real leeches are those that seek to pervert the free market by buying politicians to interfere with access and information dissemination to the public.The real leeches are those who go around spouting off about the perils of government, yet are dependent on the same government to ensure their quality of life. The real leeches are those that skim off the wages of working people and distribute them to political benefactors. The real leeches are people who cannot stand people who are different than them and elect politicians to go after those people. The real leeches are people who say they are fiscal conservatives, yet vote for people that don’t balance budgets or don’t do so fairly. The real leeches are those who say they want “small government”, but then vote for politicians who try to legislate morality while living corrupt and immoral lives in private.
Babs
May 29th, 2011
6:49 pm
Wow, sounds like you’re coming around TruthSquad.
Babs
May 29th, 2011
6:58 pm
It’s been fun, and since we’ve detoured off the main topic of conversation, it’s time for me to eat, have some wine, and thank those military personnel that have allowed us to keep our freedom in order to have this discussion. Have a great Memorial Day!
Truth Squad
May 29th, 2011
7:00 pm
TruthSquad, you can call Rand anything you want. I don’t agree with her on a couple of things and believe she does contradict herself some. While not being a member of her cult following, I will say that she knew better than anyone the rewards of capitalism vs. communism because she lived in both.
Well there you go, we can agree on something. Rand talked a good game, but in the end, she willfully took her government check didn’t she? That’s all one needs to know.
Lastly, I again caution people to not use terms they don’t fully comprehend and cannot factually substantiate. I will say that if we do not fix what is broken with our current system, then we willfully create the conditions from which people might look to alternatives such as Marxism. I don’t agree with the guy, but he didn’t get everything wrong.
That is why I believe in supporting American workers first. I care not what political label is attached to the politicians who champion such polices. I am no more invested in one cable network than the other, but I don’t watch any network that creates fictions such as “terrorist fist bump”.