Student loan debt is now more than credit card debt
Student loan debt — totaling more than $800 billion — outpaced credit card debt for the first time last year and is likely to top a trillion dollars this year, the New York Times reports.
“In the coming years, a lot of people will still be paying off their student loans when it’s time for their kids to go to college,” Mark Kantrowitz, publisher of FinAid.org, told the Times.
Two-thirds of bachelor’s degree recipients graduated with debt in 2008, compared with less than half in 1993, the Times writes. Last year, graduates who took out loans left college with an average of $24,000 in debt.
The mountain of debt is likely to grow more quickly with the coming round of budget-slashing, the Times writes.
In Georgia, cuts in the HOPE scholarship program will mean increased borrowing costs for many students in the future. And federal Pell grants for low-income students are expected to be cut, the Times writes.
Some education policy experts told the Times that the mounting debt has broad implications for the current generation of students.
“If you have a lot of people finishing or leaving school with a lot of debt, their choices may be very different than the generation before them,” Lauren Asher, president of the Institute for Student Access and Success, told the Times. “Things like buying a home, starting a family, starting a business, saving for their own kids’ education may not be options for people who are paying off a lot of student debt.”
What’s your situation or what will it be?
Have you changed your college or career plans for financial reasons? For example, is going to a technical college to learn a trade more appealing than it was a few years ago?
Are you trying to keep things in perspective by looking at the long-term value of a college education? Or is the tough job market for graduates in recent years changing your view?
- Henry Unger, The Biz Beat
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123 comments Add your comment
Michael
April 12th, 2011
9:31 am
Probably 95% of law schools exist just to pay staff, faculty and return all their unspent tuition to the larger University. There are no labs, no experiments, no broad based studies or surveys. You just read books in classes with 100 other students. That will be $30,000 per year, please.
TnGelding
April 12th, 2011
9:35 am
Destin Dawg
April 12th, 2011
6:57 am
In my day parents assumed that responsibility and we did for our son . It’s a matter of planning and priorities.
yeah
April 12th, 2011
9:35 am
Ultimate success depends on what school you chose and the grades you make while you are there. Going to KSU for 4 or 5 years and making mediocre grades doesn’t do many people good. Going to GT and making great grades (which is anything above a 3.3 at that school) will set you up nicely and open doors that would otherwise be closed. After you get work experience…the degree becomes somewhat of a formality. KSU, GSCU, Valdosta State, etc degrees are dime a dozen….they cant all get good jobs. The college degree is becoming the new high school degree….I feel for anyone who didn’t finish high school.
TnGelding
April 12th, 2011
9:38 am
One of my early bosses used to say it was a good thing we all didn’t have degrees, we’d never get anything done.
Mishap
April 12th, 2011
9:41 am
You all realize that tuition went up nationwide right? It’s not like HOPE paid tuition at all those schools. GA schools have to compete to get good faculty in order to maintain their rankings and attractiveness to students which is why you have professors getting 300k/yr to lecture a few hours a week and give the test key to their TA’s. Student loans and lax standards are allowing people to borrow far more money than a degree is worth. This is all b/c we tell every kid that the only way to a future is through a college degree whether or not the kid can even read. Then we wind up w/ 3rd tier/4th tier private schools that accept anyone w/ a pulse and the ability to sign a finaid form. It’s subprime mortgages all over again.
Taking a 10-15k loan out of GT/GSU/UGA etc is more than likely sustainable since you can come out and make a decent enough salary (even 35k is enough to pay that down). If you work part time, you can probably do just fine if you hang onto HOPE. On the other hand, taking out 40-50k to go to a supposedly elite private liberal arts school w/ a 95% acceptance rate to get a degree in leisure studies will most likely end in financial ruin but not for 5-10yrs while they defer the loan, go to grad school, or live in their parents basement to scrape together payments.
If you want to stop the excessive borrowing that is fueling $40-50M gym/student centers (GT & UGA are guilty of this), then publish student loan default rates and adjust student loan interest rates based on that. Good schools will stand out and bad schools will fall off the face of the earth. Unfortunately, this will shine far too much light on the education industry’s profit centers and probably go very negatively against underrepresented minorities (they do need access to education…just not blanket loans to sketchy schools). Sure no one is forcing you to sign on the dotted line but once you’ve started, your education up till that point is worthless until you get the sheet of paper saying you’ve finished. That’s a big incentive for people to take on private loans once they’ve exhausted even subsidized loans.
I have ~27k in student loans left from about a peak of 37k (22k of that from an MBA I’m finishing in 3 weeks) that I should be out of in ~4yrs but it’s not an undue burden given the payment is less than 5% of my monthly gross and my salary growth over the last 2 yrs is more than the entire program’s cost. In my travels interviewing, I met more than a few full time MBA students that bet it all (100k+ in loans + 2yrs of lost income) to go for the same level jobs I’m looking at. Even w/ a fat six figure paycheck, it’ll take quite a while to work that debt down.
Alto2
April 12th, 2011
9:41 am
Mercer………………..you obviously didn’t major in English. Check your spelling and grammar and you’ll be a lot more credible.
Michael
April 12th, 2011
9:43 am
All these for-profit colleges like Phoenix and the bartending schools that have existed for years have greatly increased the bottom line on student loan debt. 20 years ago Southern Tech in Marietta was the degree granting center. There was a Computer Learning Center school in Norcross that got shut down in Norcross 10 years ago when the Dept of Education (finally) determined it was letting anyone in just so they could get student loans that would finance the school’s existence.
The for-profit and the traditional schools often sell “college degree gets you more money” but nothing about a political science degree will get you there. If you must go to trade school then do something related to jobs that cannot be outsourced and must be done here. Medical, electrical, automotive, computer repair (mainframes, not PC’s), construction, landscaping — you can’t send those jobs to China.
Mercer
April 12th, 2011
9:45 am
@Alto2 let me guess… you only finished your GED right????? Get off my back it’s a blog not a critical essay…
yeah
April 12th, 2011
9:46 am
And for the record, parents are partly to blame for this problem. They pamper and take care of many college students by paying bills for them while they just go out and party every night. As a student at GT, I saw so many of these free loaders, mostly greek of course, who would just get drunk every night and make piss poor grades. If you make your kid pick up their own slack…I guarantee you they will take it more seriously. I know this isn’t the case for all college kids, but I was one of the few people from my group of friends who had a job during college and paid all my own bills. At 18 your an adult…quit giving your kids a reason to never grow up and maybe they will make something of their education.
TnGelding
April 12th, 2011
9:48 am
Can’t anyone besides me see that these loans are a big drag on our economy?
GPS
April 12th, 2011
9:51 am
Take a look at the Georgia Professional Standards and you will see that personal finance IS part of the Economics curriculum in high school. It’s not just the schools job to educate your children.
Grammar Patrol
April 12th, 2011
9:53 am
Mercer…. Please try to use more commas and periods in your sentences. If have to write you a ticket, it will be ugly!
TnGelding
April 12th, 2011
9:54 am
YOU ARE an adult at 21 in my book. Enjoy YOUR youth, YOU’RE only young once! I only have a College GED even though I grew up in the shadow of UT and had the highest GPA in my class in the 7th grade among children of scientists. And then along came puberty! Of course I attended numerous training classes in my working career and attended an excellent tech school in the USAF. We need to utilize our military schools to train civilians instead of closing them.
KSU and Beyond
April 12th, 2011
9:57 am
Don’t get me wrong, I have debt from school and I received HOPE. I did not get a worthless degree. I got a Science degree that was worth it and has allowed me to get the job I have now. However, in order to go further, I being the only female in an entirely all male environment for technical positions and above I will need a Graduate degree to assure that I will not be overlooked for promotions. I work for a company where even as a male with 20 plus years for the company, if you like comics and don’t hide it you may not be recognized for a promotion that you deserve. So now I am having to weight the options and it scares me that it will cost $35K to get an MBA in a program geared for working individuals. $35K for a 16 month program; when you break that down to per month that is equivalent to my monthly bills not including my husband’s student debt already, how can I afford to add that to my existing student debt. I will be working my entire life to pay for the education that got me my job, that just allows me to survive, not enjoy life or prepare for my children, so they don’t end up where I am now in 25 years.
KSU and Beyond
April 12th, 2011
10:10 am
To Yeah… Wow just because you seem to have graduated from GT, does not mean someone from KSU or GSCU cannot hold their own. Frankly I remember while I was in college and working a particular GT Chemistry major coming to me for tutoring and help understanding what she was doing at work.
Amazing
April 12th, 2011
10:22 am
I paid for my college through a combination of scholarships, and work study programs. My parents covered room and board. Of the 3 children, only my yougest brother did not attend college as he decided he wanted to serve in the Marines.
My wife and I saved and prepared for our children’s college education. We have one child attending a private university in the Northeast (not an Ivy League school). She is happy and thriving while pursuing a worthwhile degree. We foot the entire bill. However, we have taught her responsibility and she has been working hard to find a part time job to contribute. She has been unsuccessful in that endeavor so far. We also did something a little different. When she turned 18, we had her sign a legal contract to repay us for part of her education (interest free). The amount she has to repay represents 7% of the total cost. She now has skin in the game. We have not told her this but when she graduates successfully, we will forgive the debt. We will be taking the same approach with our youngest daughter when she starts college next year.
In my opinion, all college degrees are useful. That does not mean everyone should or must go to college. It is our job as parents to help guide our children down the right path while they make their life choices. If you can not afford to attend a $50,000 a year institution, then our job as a parent is to inform the child of the limitations.
I have seen people with questionable work ethics throughout my career. Some were college educated and some were not. I have worked with people who have great work ethics. Some were college educated and some were not. It is also unfair to make some of the generalizations that have been in this post about those with college degrees and their work ethnic.
UgaAllTheWay
April 12th, 2011
10:23 am
There is a lot of ignorance and assumptions about degrees. I went to UGA for a computer science degree. I graduated with honors out of high school with a dual seal diploma and two professional technical certifications. I started college with 3 credits. I took no summer classes. I graduated in four years, on time, and with NO DEBT. My first job paid less than $44k with no benefits (Spring 2009). After raises, promotions, and job hops, I am now at $72k with full benefits and still no debt other than my mortgage at age 24. Without college, none of this would have been possible.
sven
April 12th, 2011
10:24 am
Playing the blame game. It’s the way of America. Embrace socialism. Free healthcare and education. Although, I must say I prefer your bathing suits to my European huggers.
Tyrone Biggums
April 12th, 2011
10:25 am
You’ll start seeing the quality of public schools increase, as smart kids who normally would go to private schools are going to be steered towards the cheaper in-state school by their parents.
SR
April 12th, 2011
10:30 am
No one minds going into debt for an education that will help you land a job with a decent salary. You know, a salary that pays the basics of the overhead of life and then leaves you with something to save, and build a life with. AFTER TAXES. However, in recent years, before the financial collapse the truth was that salaries were NOT GOING UP. In all of that windfall that banks and builders, and mortgage reps were taking…all of the greasing of palms…workers were not getting better raises, wages were really more or less stagnant. This is not greed…it’s STINGINESS. And it’s a sin. And IT’S THE ONE we’re all paying for most. You have to live with an open hand and let the blessing flow on to others or the economy will DIE.
As for the government paying for college. NO. We can NOT pay for everyone’s healthcare, and their pre-natal care, and their food stamps, and their college. HOW ABOUT we create a growing thriving economy, of low taxes, where people who are able can work and earn a wage and put away for their own things. If we do that then we’ll have services for the truly NEEDY.
lars
April 12th, 2011
10:31 am
Liberal arts is the last bastion of civilization. Many on this blog would prefer everyone sell insurance for sustenance and watch t.v. for culture.
Athens Mike
April 12th, 2011
10:40 am
I don’t think everyone needs to go the traditional college route. I did, and although I have done just fine for myself, I would have happily gone to a place like UTI, which trains Porsche and other manufacturer specific mechanics. These people do well for themselves because they are specialized and technical. A normal four year degree is not for everyone and we should not all be convinced of that.
I have college loans, which I have no problem paying each month. I lost hope, because I skipped too many classes and held on with 2.95 GPA at graduation. I could not get scholarships because I was not poor or a minority. All that said, I have been just fine with the loans I took out and the four year degree I have, but the options were never made very clear to me in High school. Had they have been, I might have taken a different route.
We don’t all need a four year marketing degree.
Discussion: is higher education worth it? | LearningIsAwesome
April 12th, 2011
10:44 am
[...] to college (University of Wisconsin-Green Bay) Student loan debt is now more than credit card debt (AJC) Is college education worth the debt (NPR) Balancing debt against college choice (NYT) The project [...]
nestle
April 12th, 2011
10:44 am
I received a 4yr degree and I’m working at at Masters degree in my hometown. The college is private and the only one in the area. I have thousands of dollars in student loans. If I could change it around I would have went to a technical college for 2 years and went into health care. It’s awful that you now have to choose buying a house verses paying student loans because you want to better yourself and provide a decent living yourself and your family.
It Can Be Done
April 12th, 2011
10:45 am
When my child was born in 1985 we started putting money aside for college. We also funded our retirement. In 2003, our daughter graduated from high school, and chose to go to an out of state college, so no HOPE. She received a BS in exercise science. This May she graduates with a Doctorate in Physical Therapy, and has a job lined up. She worked part time/full time in her undergrad years but not during the 9 semesters of graduate school. She has ZERO student loans. We made her education a priority. Granted, we only had one child, but we did it. We are average middle class people, both primarily school teachers. However, I quit teaching in 2002, and we still managed things on one income. I am certain many will criticize me, but we have managed our income and weathered all the ups and downs of the economy like everyone else.
Homer
April 12th, 2011
10:45 am
“I work for a company where even as a male with 20 plus years for the company, if you like comics and don’t hide it you may not be recognized for a promotion that you deserve.”
What is that all about? I’m getting the impression that the “K” in KSU stands for Kooky.
Just sayin
April 12th, 2011
10:50 am
Many have mentioned earlier that the for-profit and online degree diploma mills have made a mockery of higher education. The biggest joke is the online doctoral degrees. Ughh. I know several teachers who are in six figure student loan debt from an online degree program. If you talk to them for ten minutes you realize they do not have the skill set to work in a pie factory. Then, we ask what is happening to public education. Their poor children will not be able count on mam or dad for assistance for college because they will be paying for their student laon mess. It amkes you think….what is going to happen when this education bubble bursts or shall i say BUST?
a real mother and teacher
April 12th, 2011
10:52 am
As a mother of two and an educator, I tell my kids now ( and they are elementary age) that the only degrees we will pay for will be science, math, engineering, technology. Case closed….
Mishap
April 12th, 2011
10:53 am
Mercer,
50k of debt is almost $600/mon for a decade. I hope you’ve got a line on some six figure jobs right after graduation. The student loan interest deduction is also subject to a phase out above 60k so it’s actually closer to $800/mon since you’d have to pay from after tax income if you make above 75k AGI.
If you’re looking at an income under 60k, then it’s not taxable but that’s at least ~12% of your annual gross. If you need to buy a home or a car, you’re going to be seriously squeezed. It’s going to be a lot of ramen to be able to save for a house. If you stretch the loan beyond 10 yrs, that 50k is going to still be around when you should be looking toward your own kids’ college funds. As it is, I feel like I’m spending too much and my car (only 4 payments left)/mortgage/student loan@5yr repayment only add up to 16% of my gross.
Student loan debt can be ok debt but it still goes against limits toward mortgages. Normally, you shouldn’t exceed 36% of your gross against recurring debt but that doesn’t leave a whole lot to actually save for a 20% down or to find much house that fits in under the limits.
I’m not trying to be really negative but you’re taking on a similar folly that thousands of people have done before. I thought long and hard about taking on my current debt (27k across 3 degrees) but given I was getting badly squeezed on taxes being single w/o dependents, I decided to buy a home in ‘09 w/ 20% down and had to take a loan to cover my tuition when I changed jobs and lost about 10k in tuition reimbursements but since made up in salary increases.
Debra
April 12th, 2011
10:58 am
After 6 years of College and $30,000 worth of loans yet to pay off, my son is working at Kroger.
a real mother and teacher
April 12th, 2011
10:59 am
….and you will work while in school and make decent grades. If you don’t work and flunk out, you will have to work a minimum of 2 jobs if plan to come live in my home. No adults will waste my money in school and then expect to come and be a grown burden to me…..
Mercer
April 12th, 2011
11:10 am
@Mishap I don’t plan on paying off my loan in 10 years. 600.00 a month is impossible for me. I don’t make 75K . I make under 40K. I already brought a house and didn’t like home ownership so I sold it and now I rent. I plan on being a professional student so that I can play a little as I can on my loan. I will pay it off when I turn 90…. I am just glad to have a degree. I was not lucky enough for my parents to pay my way through school because they didn’t want me to go to college in the first place….. I am happy I went though. I wanted a degree and now I have one.
Miss Manners
April 12th, 2011
11:11 am
Something is backwards here, it seems that if women have children out of wedlock and have multiply children with different daddies (no offense) to the children for they are a blessing, it seems the government will find a way to support these women, yet on the other hand you have women who go to college and possible be the first one in their generation or family and bleieving they will be able to pay back loans because they didn’t know how to look for scholarships about time they receive their degree its almost like they should buy it and it’s hard to find a good paying job to be able to pay the loan back. SMH. There is something seriously wrong with the system.
Eric
April 12th, 2011
11:14 am
So I realize that my career path is NOT typical but I want to share that you can have a good career without a degree, it’s harder, but possible. I am a high school drop out who took GED classes, passed and then went to a small business school for 9 months in 1990 and took some accounting classes. Then I was hired as an Accounts Payable Clerk for a large company. I now have over 20 years of professional experience, I’m a Senior Manager and an Anaylst and make a very respectable salary. Both of the companies I have worked for valued my intelligence and willingness to take on new responsibilities while learning all of the in’s and out’s of the business. Now I’m the guy they come to when there is a problem that needs a solution.
I’m not saying this is the right career path by any means. I am actually going back to school this summer to finally work on my degree. Not so much because it will help me in my career at this point, but because it’s a personal goal of mine. I will say that times have changed in the employment market and there are definitely less opportunities to get in the door without a degree, but it is still possible. My company would probably not hire someone without a degree right now, but that is more a product of this economy. There are thousands of people with a degree in search of a job, so companies can be more picky. When the economy turns around, and it will, there will be more options. I still think college is the right choice if you plan on working in a white collar field, because without it you have to work twice as hard to prove yourself, or the doors of opportunity will slam shut in your face.
College is definitely not for every child, but for those in search of a professional job, it’s damn near a requirement these days. That said, the amount of debt college grads have when leaving college is just the cost of doing business. In years past college tuition was kept low through government help. Right now our government is deeper in debt than ever before and can’t afford to pay for college education. If you think it’s your right to a college degree at the expense of the government, you are no different than a single welfare mom sitting on her butt collecting a check each month. Nobody is entitled to an education unless you are willing to pay for it. Yes college is seriously expensive, but it’s the right option for those that want a professional career that spans a lifetime. If you are unsure about your career path, I would hold off on college because it’s not worth the expense if you can’t put it to use.
Now one more comment…I’ve seen a lot of people say that “internet” degrees are worthless. You really need to open your eyes a little bit. Just about EVERY college is now offering classes online, including major two and four year colleges. I would have agreed with that statement a number of years ago when they first hit the market. But things are shifting in education, and it’s actually a lot harder to pass classes offered online through a real college because you have to have serious self discipline. The classes require self motivation and focus and the testing requirements are the same as a traditional class. This option is NOT for everyone. Most young students do not have the focus to take on these classes and be successful. I will be attending a MAJOR college for the summer semester and will be taking approximately 65% of my classes online. During my counseling session I was told that I should only take online courses if I am committed and focused because the success rate for these classes is much lower. I will say there are internet based degrees that are crap, but if you stick with a major university, like GA State, it provides more flexibility for adult students who have a career, but are also self motivated.
The bottom line is you have to weigh your options carefully and do a risk/reward assessment when deciding on a career path. College isn’t right for everyone, but still a great option for some. You also have to be careful when looking at a technical school because many of those jobs have dried up, and a lot of the one’s that still exist are only open to college grads with a technical degree.
Best of luck to all of those in search of a job.
True Trans
April 12th, 2011
11:15 am
“We care about education” is just another hot political catch phrase. With all the liberal teachers(and their semi-worthless social studies classes) and their taxpayer money leaching unions(some teachers are still under paid); it is a joke nowadays. I had over $130,000 student loan debt, that I have been slowly chipping away at the low, low price of $700/month for 30 years. What is worse, I have a friend with over $250,000 student loan debt. All my friends have had their salaries cut or kept neutral for 2-3 years now, but college tuition keeps going up(waaaaaayyyyyyy uppppppp). America though keeps falling behind China and Europe. We care about education? I have multiple international friends, their high school education is very comparable to our college courses!!! They were taking histology and microbiology, while I was forced to complete my university studies required classes. One the classes I had to choose from was called, “Men, Women and Society.” It was taught by a lesbian female boxer and one of her best friends and a guest speaker was a woman who was arrested for breaking out a prisoner that she was responsible for guarding in jail. But wait there is more, she had us watch a video on African American homosexual male relationships, and it had a 10 minute XXX scene in it (which felt like an hour). I am sure there is a place and time for such classes; and addressing tolerance and prejudices is extremely important; but at $258 a credit hour(3-4 credit hour class), I just don’t know??? The problems are many and the solutions are not as easy to come up with. We need to constantly debate, discuss, and reinvent new ways and ideas to teach. My best teachers were the ones that kept my interest and instilled passion into the subject matters; not just reading from a text book. The governments solution at throwing billions at the problem doesn’t work, the government uses their naked eyes, when the problems need to looked at with an electron microscope. I think private schools succeed because they are smaller, their is better supervision, and if they stink, they go out of business. I think these are potential models for future consideration. When I come home from work and the entire subdivision has kids running and screaming around and through everyone’s yards, I think we have a problem with our schools and the parents.
Eric
April 12th, 2011
11:17 am
Miss Manners…you need a little more education yourself if you thought that post was legible. Does anyone even know what she was trying to say?
Dee
April 12th, 2011
11:18 am
How many college kids would apply for a job working at a canning company or any other manufacturing or factory type industry (like any are available or hiring) to pay for college?…absolutely NONE…don’t blame illegal aliens for doing the jobs our kids wouldn’t dare consider even if that was the only option to pay for their education…they would rather choose not to attend college…BANK ON IT…most kids are going to college, boring money, so they can put off working and paying bills…you blame them? Face it, kids these days are lazy…period.
kmmmm
April 12th, 2011
11:19 am
I think society is placing tooo much emphasis on kids getting a college degree. It places a false since of security to the student and create the possiblity of feeling time wasted when you have all these degrees but no job. I started attending college partime, because I had to work to pay for it. I was lucky enough to be offered a full time position and had to quit school becasue the money was good. Now, I’ see friends of mine who turned down the opportuntiy to work and continued their education with hopes that it will pay off in the end. Many Years later I now, make around $60,00 a year( which is not much) and they are still looking for the right job that will pay what they are entitle to for the degree they’ve received. I encourged my kids to attend college, but work like i did’ but both were asked to work full time what started as a part-time job with decent money and had to let college go. I did not have a problem with it.
Ms. Obvious
April 12th, 2011
11:24 am
If the HOPE scholarship was such a curse that created such a mega bubble for tuition rates, then why are GA colleges year after year considered to be some of the most affordable in the nation? I must agree that we need to stop sending our kids to school to get psychology, art, and history degrees. We need to focus our kids who want to go to college, and encourage math, science and engineering degrees since this is what will help our country the most, and it is where the job markets are growing. If you love art, do art on the side, if you love to write, write on the side. I got a degree in Education so that I could teach writing during the school year, and spend my summers indulging in my true passion, and I am able to still get a pay check. It kills me to see kids going to school for art, rack up $40,000 in debt, and at best be able to get a job making $35K a year. If my kid decides to go to school for something like art, she is paying her own way. The HOPE scholarship is not to blame. The blame should be put on people putting down technical education, and real degrees in favor of party degrees.
counterpoint
April 12th, 2011
11:31 am
We need to get over the myth that college is for everyone and it is the only way to break through the poverty ceiling. Our federal government also needs to cut grants and funding for some of these folks to go to college, we cannot continue to go in debt for the unknown. Our nation’s youth needs to find out how to work for something and not have it given to them. And yes, this is another reason to get rid of illegals, put our college students back to work!
And sorry Bill, Sue is right! HOPE has perpetuated the myth that college is a must for the poor. Also, HOPE has caused our tuition here in GA to spiral out of control. Look at other states and their university systems and you will see what HOPE has done to tuition here. I could send my kid to better schools in the University of NC system and even pay out of state tuition and still get a better deal that here in GA.
Has anyone ever seen how little a monthly payment can be on a college loan debt? It is not like credit card debt where the interest rate is huge. You can take your entire life to pay off student loans as long as you pay it back!
George
April 12th, 2011
11:33 am
Another great Government Scam!! The big 4 things gov. is involved in just keeps going up in cost. Education, HealthCare, Government itself and Oil.
counterpoint
April 12th, 2011
11:39 am
“America though keeps falling behind China and Europe.”
That’s because the USA has a myriad of cultures and nationalities to attempt to educate. Other countries don’t have the problems we do because for the past several decades, our immigration policies have let whoever in into our country without regards to it’s impact.
Immigration into this country has destroyed our public education system. It will not get better until we don’t have to educate the World for FREE!
@Dee You are so WRONG with your opinions and you know it! The reality is illegals have shown our youth and many adults how to buck the system and it’s laws. Illegals have taught our citizens its okay to be dishonest, you don’t have to pay for your mistakes! If an illegal can get away with “it”, why can’t I?
Mishap
April 12th, 2011
11:41 am
True Trans,
Did your degree include a Lexus in there? I’m hoping that includes a JD or MD in the totals. What school in good conscience hand you that kind of debt load unless you have the definite ability to pay for it? My alma mater was $35k/yr in tuition but they handed out 10-20k/yr in grants/scholarships based on need. The secret to avoiding too much debt was taking more classes. I finished in 3 yrs and my younger brother did his in 2.5 there. The only people I know w/ six figures of school debt tend to be medical professionals or lawyers and most of them clear 200-500k so a 10yr payoff is within reach.
As for private schools…they aren’t models for success b/c they’re often dependent on gov’t grants that mask their true cost. They also lobby heavily for vouchers to reduce their costs and obfuscate accountability by gaming the system in similar ways to public schools (drop outs are “transfers” etc). Private schools are at best marginally more successful than public counterparts given they’re often allowed to cherry pick their students to those that would succeed regardless and those that don’t often hang on for years playing with kids futures.
The Domino Effect
April 12th, 2011
11:45 am
Dee you are full of crap! Illegals have been degrading our society little by little for quite a while. Their world of fake documents and lies to obtain a job here in the US have showed many that it was easy to falsify documents to get a house, etc. The actions of illegals have caused our citizens to cop the attitude – if they can get away with it, then I should too. Entitlement is a disease that is now widespead in our country and illegals have show our once good citizens all the tricks of the trade!
lance
April 12th, 2011
11:55 am
The Obama administration has a plan for low-earning student borrowers to get out of debt, with income-based repayment that forgives remaining federal student debt for those who pay 15 percent of their income for 25 years — or 10 years, if they work in public service.
Ahhh… the public sector – let’s get more working for the government – and produce more of “nothing” of value other than more debt and taxes so we can finally force anyone out of America who has money. Heck, we need more dirt roads and shanty towns anyway.
Worth Repeating ...
April 12th, 2011
11:59 am
…. The biggest joke is the online doctoral degrees. Ughh. I know several teachers who are in six figure student loan debt from an online degree program. If you talk to them for ten minutes you realize they do not have the skill set to work in a pie factory. Then, we ask what is happening to public education.
Amen!
Worth Repeating ...
April 12th, 2011
12:06 pm
… Private schools are at best marginally more successful than public counterparts given they’re often allowed to cherry pick their students to those that would succeed regardless and those that don’t often hang on for years playing with kids futures …
Also, private schools are a waste of money for alot of people as that money could be spent on a college education and/or the parent’s retirement fund. People through good money away with the myth their little darlings are getting superior and premium when they are only getting better that average. Private schools are also set up for the student not to fail, something you don’t get when the real world knocks you down.
Mishap
April 12th, 2011
12:25 pm
counterpoint,
Europe isn’t a monolithic race/religion. They have plenty of immigrants they like to demonize as well. Asia tends to have less diversity but the real reason why Asian countries are more successful in education is because they separate out those suited for college from those that are not much earlier. They push education really hard but by the time you reach HS, you know who is headed for vocational training and who is going to college. Coupled w/ the massive populations in China/India and you’re going to have a lot of very smart people and that’s why we are having trouble competing. Close to 1/3 of India is illiterate but those aren’t the people fighting for our jobs…it’s the 300M+ people in that top quarter of the intelligence spectrum that are going to drink our milkshake.
mum
April 12th, 2011
12:39 pm
Lance, you do realize the the public service means the military, police officers, firefighters, scientists doing research at the CDC don’t you? Are you saying that these people are freeloaders? Unfortunately, politicians are supposed to be public servants and we pay their salaries, but they seem to only serve themselves, but that’s another conversation. So, what’s your point??????
counterpoint
April 12th, 2011
12:51 pm
@ Mishap The “diversity” in the US is unmatched by anyone in the World. And you can’t break immigration laws in those counties like you can here in the US. Truth is we are not a melting pot, our politically correct society does not encourage conformity. We cannot continue to attempt to educate the World here in our public schools. When the masses include dozens of cultures, that is what happens – FAILURE.