Support or oppose Gwinnett airport expansion?
Which side on you on? And why?
Supporters say turning over Gwinnett’s airport to a private operator to add commercial flights could boost the local economy at an opportune time, AJC reporter David Wickert writes. It could also provide an alternative to Hartsfield.
But many Gwinnett residents oppose the move. They cite the added noise, traffic congestion and declining real estate values that would affect the surrounding communities, Wickert reports.
Where do you stand?
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80 comments Add your comment
Walter
June 21st, 2010
7:13 am
I fully support the expansion and did the last time around too. A great example to look at is Stewart Airport in Newburgh NY. This serves the Hudson Valley area with flights and is a great alternative to heading down to NYC. The people who live near the airport know th quality of life they bought into. When you live near an airport there’s always the possibility of it being expanded. You need to look at the benefits to then entire region vs the complaints of the few. That’s a very commercial corridor along 316 and seems perfectly suited for an expanded commercial airport. The interchange of GA20 and 316 will have to be improved but that can be paid for by the new airport owners. I don’t see anything but a win for Gwinnett with an expanded airport.
Jeff
June 21st, 2010
8:01 am
My experience with these “protesters” are that they are also the ones who expect to be able to pick any flight at any time of day to go to their latest trendy vacation spot. They want the convenience that an airport provides, the accolades of being a protester for the community, but none of the side effects. But hey, that’s just my experience.
Paul
June 21st, 2010
8:13 am
For the greater good of the county (equating to an old friend of Charles Bannister’s that owns the property) the Catholic Church in Norcross has had an attempted robbery of their (and the neighborhood’s) lifestyle, in the form of a trash transfer station right next door (a spot rezoning did the trick). The airport isn’t any different, whatever the government tells us, so saith the Bannister Bunch.
ITS JUST ME
June 21st, 2010
8:22 am
I think its good. Atlanta is a busy town and we need more then one airport to support the travel industry. This will bring jobs and good paying ones at that. I used to live in Houston where we had Intercontental to the north and Hobby in the center. It did wonders for the city to have to outbound areas for airports. I think its a good idea to bring another major airport to the north of Atlanta.
Jon
June 21st, 2010
8:28 am
C’mon, NIMBYs, your property values are already tanked, this can’t make it any worse.
Meme
June 21st, 2010
8:35 am
Go for it! I live in some of the condo’s close by and would love the increase in property value.
Airport Supporter
June 21st, 2010
8:36 am
I fully support the exapansion. I live near the airport and am not that concerned about the noise, especially if it is only 20 commercial flights a day. Additionally, a good example of a great small airport is the Canton-Akron Airport in Canton, Ohio. This airport is small, yet it provides daily non-stop flights to places such as Atlanta, Orlando, and other vacation destinations. Delta and Airtran are the largest carriers at the airport. It is a huge convenience when traveling to that part of the state. If anyone has read the website about privatization, they would read that the larger planes are actually quieter than many of the small planes. I have done my research and fully support this plan. It would bring in much needed revenue for the county as well as provide a great service and convenience to travelers who do not want/need to go to Atlanta to catch a flight.
Scott
June 21st, 2010
8:50 am
Comparing a possible airport expansion in Gwinnett county to the oil spill in the Gulf is incredibly stupid. How can the destruction of our gulf ecosystem and the deaths of untold numbers of animals compare? You bought near an airport – expansion at some point is the natural outcome in a growing area.
Vince
June 21st, 2010
9:10 am
I do not support the expansion at all. I live about two miles north of the airport. When I purchased my home in 1992 I specifically contacted the folks at Briscoe about the possibility of expansion and was told they were a “little country airport and would never expand.”
In allowing the expansion of Briscoe Field officials would essentially be rendering useless Dacula Elementary, Dacula Middle School, Dacula High School, Central Gwinnett High School, Dyer Elementary, Lawrenceville Elementary and the new school currently being finished on Highway 29. All of these schools are so close to the airport and right under the flight patterns that it would be senseless to try to carry on with instruction with jets flying right over the rooftops.
Also at stake is Gwinnett Medical Center. I don’t think being about a mile and a half mile from the end of the runway would be a good place for folks to try to recuperate.
With all of that being said, I would be willing to sell my home to the folks that want to privatize Briscoe Field so I could leave the area. Bloggers above who suggest that we sacrifice our homes and property values for the “common good of the community” just so others don’t have to drive to Hartsfield really need to look in the mirror.
Vince
June 21st, 2010
9:19 am
@Meme..
Property values increased??? Take a ride down to Clayton County and look around the community that used to be Mountain View. (It’s no longer there. The FAA had to buy and destroy every home)Take a ride to Peachtree Dekalb and look at the property within a mile or two of the airport.
Airports create a dead zone of about 4 to 5 miles around them. Only businesses or industry can put up with the noise, pollution, traffic and horrific standard of living they cause.
My family lived about 6 miles east of Hartsfield in the 1970’s. I could not wait to get out of the area once I was old enough. You would think you could get used to not hearing the television every few minutes, the ear splitting sound kids are subjected to when playing outside, the walls rattling several times a day….but you would be wrong.
Just take a drive down to Conley, Forest Park, Mountain View or Hapeville. Are you really sure you support that happening to Lawrenceville, Dacula and Grayson?
Vince
June 21st, 2010
9:22 am
@ Walter, Jon, It’s Just Me, and Jeff…
So I assume you would be perfectly okay if an airport was built at the end of your street?
Brian
June 21st, 2010
9:24 am
Enter your comments here
Robert
June 21st, 2010
9:25 am
Expand PDK instead or find a better location. I FULLY OPPOSE THIS DECISION. Which elected official is selling their land for this expansion? That is what this story is really about.
Brian
June 21st, 2010
9:28 am
IF you do not want to drive to Hartsfield, then drive to the Athens airport, they already allow commercial flights. The only people for this expansion are the ones that will make $$$, this is a bad deal for the regular people of Lawrenceville and Dacula area. I have not spoken to a single person in favor of this expansion, why dont they conduct these polls whose lives would be impacted the most.
Jim
June 21st, 2010
9:29 am
Moved here in 94 and I heard the same thing. A little county airport is all it was. I live 4.5 miles from there in Richland which is a excellend community once referred to as the golden triangle area.
Home values are poor why make it worse? My daughter is going to GGC college at 316/collins hill road. How can 737s flying over head be good for the expansion and desire of wanting to go to the college? I am sure it would not have been built if the airport was private and flying 737s in and out of there. You will end up with another college park. There is already low income housing in that area by the airport. it will just expand. SAY NO. MAke another airport further out somewhere away from populated areas.
George
June 21st, 2010
9:30 am
The County has already made up its mind. Their comment about reviewing the impact after they get the proposals (which they will be in a hurry to pick and go on contract with) shows their mind set. Anyone within a 10-12 mile radius of the airport can and probably will be affected with higher noise and a poorer standard of living. Anyone who says this is not true is not looking at the examples of communities that had airports grow next door to them. This is a horrible decision and a continued example of the Shag Cates mentalllity of the Gwinnett Commissioners!
Mike
June 21st, 2010
9:34 am
These airport protesters remind me of the folks at PDK watch over at Dekalb P’tree airport area. In both cases their arguments are laughable and don’t have a leg to stand on here. I’m sorry, but when you choose to buy a home near an airport (especially one in a rapidly growing area), anyone with an IQ of 75 or more should realize that the airport might indeed expand in the coming years. That would be akin to buying a house next to a busy interstate and then complaining when the DOT discusses adding additional lanes.
Besides, aircraft are quieter than ever, especially jet aircraft. I’m certain that noise pollution has decreased in the area even with additional traffic in recent years.
Metro
June 21st, 2010
9:35 am
First its minority majority status and now airport expansion: the final nails in the coffin for Gwinnett County.
Jim West
June 21st, 2010
9:35 am
The Atlanta area, and North Georgia, seriously needs a second airport.
The Atlanta Airport is congested and huge, making flying stressful.
A second regional airport would take pressure off of future growth of the Atlanta Airport, and would be extremely popular. The Atlanta City government does not want any competition to the Atlanta Airport, and will do anything possible to kill development of a competiting regional airport. In my opinion, people around Atlanta seriously want an alternative to the huge Atlanta Airport Airport. Even driving to Birmingham is an attractive alternative to fighting crowds at the Atlanta Airport.
Glenn Beck
June 21st, 2010
9:49 am
I am for the expansion because I don’t like the whining bed-wetting liberal protestors and Gwinnett is already a pile of dump.
Atlanta Region Pragmatist
June 21st, 2010
9:55 am
Once again, we in the Atlanta Region have a government entity that is using buzzwords such as privatization to avoid the real issues facing its community, such as higher-paying jobs and meaningful development that is sustainable over the long-term.
For a cash-strapped county government, like Gwinnett County, it may be that the purported stream of income assumed by expanding/leasing/privatizing the Gwinnett General Aviation Airport seems like a sure thing. However, like other “deals” we have seen over the years in the region, the law of unanticipated consequences looms heavily.
Not only are the impacts from having a commerical air facility shoe-horned into a small general aviation airport to be considered, but also the possible impact that a potential default would have upon Gwinnett residents and taxpayers. In many cases, the public entity (in this case Gwinnett County) needs to guarantee uninterrupted operations if the private operator defaults on a privatization arrangement.
More generally, the issues are: Is this the right place for commercial jet service? AND Is this really a true economic development strategy?
In terms of location, the Gwinnett General Aviation Airport is effectively landlocked between Georgia Highway 316 and US Highway 29, and is very close to densely populated areas.
In terms of economic development, gutting a significant portion of Central Gwinnett County doesn’t appear to have conducive long-term effects just to add commercial air service found readily at Hartsfield-Jackson.
Unfortunately for Clayton County, the impact of Hartsfield-Jackson was felt countywide — not just in some perceived corridor. The lesson of these countywide impacts may be something Gwinnett and its residents examine closely.
In short, it appears we have a cash-hungry local government that wants to flip a facility to a company that will expand and commercialize that facility. Haven’t we learned enough already about flipping in this region? We need to focus on what will make us a desirable place to live and work on a sustainable basis into the future — not just generate quick cash without considering long-term consequences.
Vince
June 21st, 2010
10:08 am
@Mike….
I am willing to bet there is an airport within 5 miles of your house where small single engine planes can take off and land. You may not even be aware of it because it is so small.
You would be perfectly happy to suddenly have commercial jets flying just a couple fo hundred feet over your house?
Jason
June 21st, 2010
10:29 am
Like it not airplane noise makes money. An airport generates a large amount of revenue for the surrounding counties. It is a shame that people would complain about the noise from aircraft. They made the conscience decision to move near the airport. THE AIRPORT DID NOT MOVE TO THEM!!!! Plus being a pilot we can abide by noise abatement rules from the airport where as an aircraft will enter and exit over a less populated area. People that complain about an airport only have there own self interest in mind. Shame on them!
Mike
June 21st, 2010
10:37 am
Vince,
I am aware of it as I’m a private pilot, and utilize small fields often. I’ve flown in and out of Briscoe since the late 80’s, and even back then the airport has a great foundation in place (large runway, solid ILS, surrounding land for growth, etc) for further expansion. Simply put, Brisco wasn’t your typical small GA airport going back 25 years—everyone knew it would eventually become more of a regional airport that could handle jet aircraft. I certainly did as a teen during this period living roughly 7 miles away.
Mike
June 21st, 2010
10:41 am
…If I knew, as a dumb teenager at the time (late 80’s-early 90’s), that Briscoe was a continuing growing airport that would soon enough become a regional center; you’ll be hard pressed to convince me that some adult who bought there around the same time or later was completely ignorant to that fact. Like Jason said, they moved near the airport…the airport didn’t move to them. My interstate example from earlier applies perfectly here.
Art Vandalay
June 21st, 2010
10:53 am
I spend a lot of time in that area, too much actually, and I don’t see much property value to speak of now. What will decline in value? Closed grocery stores? run down wal-mart supercenter? empty strip malls with weeds growing out of them? The houses that would be deemed uninhabitable if it were down here in the city? Wake up Gwinnett you are not living in the county you moved to in the early 90’s your opposition to things like this and the expansion of MARTA are so laughable to the rest of the region when your county is the largest enclave of illegal immigrants, and the fastest growing area of poverty in the southeastern United States. A perfect example of what this could be, look at Sanford Airport in the Orlando area. Atlanta is the most underserved metropolitan area when it comes to transportation and it stems from residents mostly in Gwinnett county clinging to some by gone idea of utopia. Believe what you want but come look at my quality of life, my commute, the streetscape of Peachtree Road, the amount of time I NEVER spend in traffic, and the number of times mine and my neighbors homes have NOT been broken in to and then go back and take a look at the intersection of GA-316 and 20 and tell me your quality of life is better, you may prefer it but it is not of better quality.
Vince
June 21st, 2010
10:56 am
@Mike…
So if a person, such as myself, bought near the airport 20 years ago..and called to talk to the folks at the airport before my purchase, about the traffic it catered to and any expansion plans….and was told, “We are just a little country airport. we won’t ever expand.”, I should be blamed for their lies?
I have no problem with the expansion as long as the county or the development group buys me out. Otherwise, either can expect a lengthy and expensive legal battle.
This would be akin to buying a home on a dirt road, calling to ask about development plans and being told there were none and then having the road turned into an interstate that ran by your bedroom window.
Art Vandalay
June 21st, 2010
11:01 am
Vince you answered your own question you asked this TWENTY YEARS AGO. As much as some of the restless natives may resist…THINGS CHANGE, your know, like that race of majority in your county.
Art Vandalay
June 21st, 2010
11:02 am
People don’t go to Gwinnett for a bette life anymore, they go there for cheap electronics and some killer Dim Sum.
Vince
June 21st, 2010
11:06 am
@Art Vandalay…
I work in your area and I can say without a doubt that my standard of living in north Lawrenceville is much better than yours. Our schools currently do the impossible: Students score way above the national average even though we are a majority/minority system. It is possible that homes in my neighborhood have been broken into…but I have never heard of it…not in 20 years. I can walk down my street without fear any hour of the day or night…and you know what? I actually appreciate the diversity brought in by our large number of Korean, Latino and Eastern European neighbors. Our schools, and superintendent, win national awards for excellence. Our park system may be the very best in the nation.
Have you ever driven to the north side of 316 in the area that would be under the flight patterns of these jets? You will find brand new shopping centers, restaurants, parks, schools and immaculately kept subdivisions.
Metro
June 21st, 2010
11:07 am
“The only people for this expansion are the ones that will make $$$”
Exactly! Anyone FOR expansion of Briscoe, even here in this blog, is in it for themselves. It is sad to see all the arrognat posts calling people that chose to live near this tony airport stupid.
“a good example of a great small airport is the Canton-Akron Airport in Canton, Ohio”
A good example, that’s a “good” laugh. The economy, expecially in that part of Ohio, is in the toilet.
Mike
June 21st, 2010
11:15 am
Yes, as you took some verbal guarantee of some airport employee to heart and made an important decision (where to buy a home) based on it. Unless you have something in writing from them in regard to this (and their culpability), you’re the sucker. Besides, again as a teenager at the time there taking flight lessons, everyone and their mom knew of Briscoe’s future growth…nobody make any bones about it and in fact Briscoe officials boasted about future plans; thus I seriously doubt such allegations. I’m guessing if anything was said, it was by the real estate agent who was trying to make the sale.
Anytime you’re dealing with anything involved in real estate, land, et al; if you don’t have a contract, deed, or at least something in writing…you’re to blame. I could be wrong, but I suspect you’re looking for an easy way out of your mortgage and the general dump of an area you live in (in terms of some sort of buyout.) Like Art said, the area has been in free fall for quite some time and an expanding airport is the least of your concerns.
I/my family saw what was coming and got out in ‘99, and haven’t looked back.
Common Sense
June 21st, 2010
11:15 am
Keeping Briscoe Field as it is, and developing another “commercial airport” further to the north would add even more additional revenues to the county.
Vince
June 21st, 2010
11:18 am
@ Art Vandalay…
…and we are fiercely proud of our killer dim sun…our wonderful Asian and Latino farmers’ markets, the interesting European cafes and restaurants in Lawrenceville, our plethora of temples and churches, and REAL Mexican restaurants. They make the stores and restaurants inside the perimeter sort of “ho hum.”
Art Vandalay
June 21st, 2010
11:21 am
Believe what you want Vince but I have been all over this state including places with little economy to speak of in South Georgia and the intersection of GA-316 and Highway 20 is one of the most blighted looking areas in the entire state. Also there are plenty of new shopping centers, you are right, but they are still empty. And if you think areas around that part of Lawrenceville are more inviting than Peachtree Road in Buckhead then you are lieing. There are parts of Lawrenceville I will not stop in during the day, Highway 29 for example. Also, please if you like the diversity, which I do as well, but you know good and well that many in your area including many of those opposed to this airport are not as accepting as you, then what is the push back towards having MARTA in your area? It would be a huge asset to these neighbors whom you claim to welcome with open arms, many of whom can’t or don’t drive. This is not coming from a anti-Gwinnett mind set by any means, I love parts of Buford, Suwannee, Duluth, but from a trained eye Gwinnett is also home to some of the more blighted areas in our state, Highway 78 in Snellville, and that stretch of 316 in Lawrencevile, for example.
Mike
June 21st, 2010
11:30 am
Metro, sorry but that’s a tired, lame argument. I have no vested interest in Briscoe and, since I no longer fly in/out of there, couldn’t care less what happens to the place…they could turn it into an amusement park for all I care (though I always hate to see GA airports close) But facts are facts: people CHOSE to buy near a growing GA airport, and now those same people are complaining about expansion. When we bought ski property in Snowshoe, WV back in ‘01, it was a quiet getaway with no lift lines. Since then roughly 8 new condo developments have gone in near us and the crowds are often unbearable during many weekends. But we knew that might happen going in, and we have nobody to blame but ourselves.
Vince
June 21st, 2010
11:32 am
@Mike…
It was an airport official…not an agent.
Here’s my concern: I grew up near Hartsfield. I know what an airport does to an area. I chose to move as far away from Hartsfield as I could while still being in the metro area. I checked with airport and county officials before buying. My home would still sell for considerably more now than its original price. For you to describe the area north of Lawrenceville as a dump is laughable. You’ve actually been to the Hamilton Mill and Dacula area??
My contention is the idea that it is okay to destroy people’s lives, their homes and their lifestyle without even an apology. At least with Hartsfield they ended up buying out the neighborhoods and razing the houses.
Vince
June 21st, 2010
11:39 am
@ Art Vandalay
No, I am not lying about prefering Gwinnett to Buckhead. I have never been to Buckhead when I didn’t get completely fed up with traffic…even on weekends. Whenever I am there I cannot wait to escape. I also dislike the phony/trendy/plastic feel of it.
Marta? Okay by me.
@Mike… One thing wrong with your argument: People did not choose to move near a “growing” airport. They chose to move near a small, country airport that did not allow commercial jets. HUGE difference.
Art Vandalay
June 21st, 2010
11:39 am
Vince, Hamilton Mill and Dacula are not Lawrenceville, and also not close enough to have any sort of extreme effects from an airport expansion. Some of the most expensive areas in Orlando like Lake Nona are about that distance from OIA. Not to mention you don’t even know how the flight patterns will change.
Mike
June 21st, 2010
11:39 am
Vince,
I’m born (’73)/raised in Lawrenceville, and while the diversity of restaurants has improved, much of everything else has gone far downhill. Crime is much worse now, as is the traffic, schools, overall blight…I can go on and on. Heck, Compton has a diverse selection of restaurants too, but I certainly wouldn’t want to live/raise a family there. Its really sad what has happened to much of Gwinnett County, but all you can really do these days is keep outrunning it and continue to find solid places for your family to live.
Art Vandalay
June 21st, 2010
11:45 am
Hamilton Mill Golf club is 11 miles from Briscoe Field, Thats 1 mile difference than the distance from Midtown to Hartsfield, no complaints from residents there.
Vince
June 21st, 2010
12:07 pm
Boy…Mike and Art… You took my statement that the areas north of Lawrenceville (Hamilton Mill/Dacula/North Lawrenceville) are nice and not “dumps” to mean that they are near the airport…though certainly much of the Hamilton Mill area south of the clubhouse, would be affected.
I don’t think the flight patterns would change much unless they plan to turn the runways perpendicular to what they are now. The flight patterns would run right over the Dacula cluster schools (about two miles from the airport) and over Gwinnett Medical Center, again about two miles from the runway. If the jets bank even slightly after takeoff they would fly right overhead of the courthouse, Central Gwinnett High School, Lawrenceville Elementary and Georgia Gwinnett College.
There are so many subdivisions within two miles of Briscoe Field with houses in the 250,000 – 500,000 price range. However, price of the homes should not make a difference. We are talking about people’s lives.
AH
June 21st, 2010
12:54 pm
@ Vince Mike and Art are full of it. Mike is living in some fantasy world and Art is pulling “facts” out of his rear end. Bets are they both live very close to Briscoe and are looking for an easy way out.
Expansion at Briscoe won’t “fly”! Two very recent plane crashes in residential areas not far from Briscoe will be very hard to ignore. Mike & Art, good luck with your “flight” out of Gwinnett, your going to need it!
Jason
June 21st, 2010
12:56 pm
Vince,
The same argument lies in the fact that the people whom own those 200,000 -300,000 dollar homes who decided to build those homes near the airport. THE AIRPORT DID NOT MOVE TO THEM!!! Guys, this issue has always and will always be around airports that “like LZU-Lawrenceville” was planned to be expanded. Pilots per the FAA have to abide by noise abatement rules governing over a specific airport. Departing off of runway 25 a aircraft can easily depart to the north and avoid the majority of Lawrenceville. Newer regulation of aircraft engines have also made them much less noisy and efficient than in the past. Again airplane noise means money coming into a cash strapped area!!!
Art Vandalay
June 21st, 2010
1:51 pm
AH assuming i live in gwinnett county is perhaps the most offensive thing anyone has ever thought about me.
AH
June 21st, 2010
1:52 pm
Briscoe has no place to expand … that is unless there are plans to bulldoze houses belonging to Mike, Art & Jason.
Jason
June 21st, 2010
1:58 pm
AH,
There is plenty of room for growth for LZU, please do not comment on things in which you know nothing about!
Meme
June 21st, 2010
2:00 pm
Vince, I bought my condo 22 years ago and I would love for the FCC or anyone else to buy it so that I could move.
Jason
June 21st, 2010
2:35 pm
Guys…
The real point is to make the growth of LZU into an airport that would be for the use of smaller regional aircraft i.e. a CRJ 700 regional jet. This would lessen the burden of having the trouble of driving to Hartsfield to catch a smaller regional to catch a direct or connecting flight. The noise that two of the engines on the CRJ-700, the General Electric CF34-8C1 is comparable to the same noise output as a Rolls Royce Tay Mk 611-8C turbofan/Honeywell TFE731-20 turbofan engines which is in the Gulfstream/Learjet aircraft which commonly go in and out of LZU daily. Boeing 737 are rarely used for regional flights.
Ben
June 21st, 2010
2:42 pm
I lived in Gwinnett long before Briscoe Field was in existence. The noise level is terrible. In the morning the flights leaving Briscoe comes right over my home and is verry exasperating. Most of you people wanting this expansion will not profit one thin dime. people You only want to control what happen to other people in the name of prosperity as you see it.
Vince
June 21st, 2010
3:09 pm
@ Jason… So you mean the jets that land here will be quieter than the ones that take off about once a month now that rattle my walls and make it sound as if a train is running across my roof?
I find that difficult to believe.
@Art…
I thought your assertion that Hamilton Mill is 11 miles from Briscoe sounded a bit far fetched…so I took a drive. From the end of the runway on Cedars Road to Hamilton Mill’s entrance on Jim Moore Road it is 5.4 miles….and that is taking winding semi-rural roads. Or, by your terms, about the distance from the Bobby Jones Gold Course on Northside Drive to Phipps Plaza. I would imagine the folks along West Paces, West Wesley and Wieuca Road would be equally unhappy if Fulton County wanted to land jets several times a day at Phipps.
Also, Art….go ahead and insult the 800,000 people who call Gwinnett home. We really don’t care. Our school system is among the nation’s finest, proven so with test scores and national awards. Our park system, recreational facilities and sports programs are among the nation’s finest. We have excellent shopping, restaurants, concert venues close by. We moved here for many reasons and your jealousy doesn’t bother us.
However, since you have nothing to do with Gwinnett why should you even care if an airport is shoved down our throats?
Vince
June 21st, 2010
3:13 pm
@Jason…
Your argument that people moved near an airport has no merit. It would be the same as saying. You moved next door to a house so you have no right to complain if the house changes to a skyscraper. Get real.
Jason
June 21st, 2010
3:49 pm
@ Vince,
My comment about the homes and the proximity to the airport holds a lot of water…. Again it is not the fault of the airport and the business that operate at the airport that you decided to settle miles from the runway. How smart is it to buy so close. This is the same problem that happen at Witham airport KSUA in Flordia where the airport butts up to multi-millon dollars homes on the ICW. the airport was able it establish a noise abement solution for the noise. They lost the battle because thay decided to build there. Location, location location did real estate not teach any of you any lesson. If you don’t like airplane noise don’t live by a flippin airport simple solution!
David
June 21st, 2010
4:21 pm
NO TO THE AIRPORT EXPANSION, WE ALREADY HAVE LOW FLYING JETS OVER OUR HOUSE EVERY EVENING AT 11:00 PM, LOW ENOUGH AND ENOUGH NOISE TO WAKE FROM SLEEP. I HATE TO IMAGE WHAT THE LARGER JETS WILL DO.
NOT ONLY THAT BUT HOW MANY MORE WILL CRASH INTO THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOODS.
DEFINITELY NO!!
David Smith
June 21st, 2010
4:28 pm
Really Vince? “People’s Lives”?
Can’t you make it more dramatic?
The truth is, that unless you haven’t flown in the last 5-10 years, you’re argument regarding the the noise level of modern jets is simply ignorant. The new 737s are FAR more quiet than the current planes flying in and out of Briscoe now.
Additionally… for anyone to even bring up ATL in this discussion is just NIMBY sensationalizing. Really? You’re suggesting that a couple more flights an hour (the airport currently has ~15 per hour) is going to cause a Hapeville? LZU had an average of 228 flights per day in 2009…. They are talking about going up to 250 or 260 a day?
For comparison, ATL has ~3000 flights per day… That’s 12 times the total volume being considered for LZU… AND AT LZU 80%+ OF THE FLIIGHTS WILL CONTINUE TO BE SMALL PLANES AS THEY ARE NOW!
Instead of letting your emotions get the best of you because you are just coming off of going nuts over the garbage program and are just looking for your next boogie man, step back and look at this from a logical standpoint leaves out the “for the children” and “we’re talking about people’s lives” crap.
Seriously…. anyone comparing LZU and ATL is guilty of dishonest and ignorant propaganda…. and I mean that in the nicest possible way.
David Smith
June 21st, 2010
4:31 pm
2nd to last paragraph was supposed to finish out with:
“step back and look at this from a logical standpoint. Leave out the “for the children” and “we’re talking about people’s lives” crap.
John Coktoasten
June 21st, 2010
5:41 pm
This is all Propaganda. The decision WILL be made by the CITIZENS and their ELECTED officials of Gwinnett County.
Vince
June 21st, 2010
6:28 pm
@David Smith…
It doesn’t really matter what your last paragraph was supposed to say. It’s all a load of crap. No way that commercial jets are quieter than the little single engine planes that take off there now.
David Smith
June 21st, 2010
7:29 pm
@ Vince….
And this is your “expert” opinion? Because you “know” this to be a fact…. or is it what you have to say in order to have this issue fit what you have predetermined to be your position on the airport?
Ed
June 22nd, 2010
9:24 am
I expect that just about everyone near the airport moved there after the airport was built. Thinking that it would never expand is like moving next to an Interstate exit and not thinking that any business would move in there.
We dramatically need the airport expanded. It would be good for just about everyone’s property values in the county. Atlanta needs a second airport. It needs Delta’s monopoly relaxed. It wasn’t the residents of Gwinnett who defeated the expansion last time, it was Delta.
The area around the approach to the airport is mostly commercial already. Neighborhoods to the North and South of the airport don’t have to worry about traffic, airplanes usually fly straight into the runways. It’s mainly the areas next to 316 that will even know the airport exists.
For those who worry about property values, NOT having the airport expansion is probably a bigger issue for you. If Gwinnett County grows stagnant, that’s what kills the property values. A county that is growing is what drives property values up. Access to transportation is a big factor, look at those who move next to subway stops or downtown, just to reduce travel time. That will happen to Gwinnett as well. Look at organizations who are looking at Cobb, N Fulton, or Gwinnett for their new location. With a commercial airport near you, that makes the deal look a LOT sweeter!
Vince
June 22nd, 2010
9:39 am
@David Smith
It is what I know. An occasional small jet takes off from Briscoe every once in a while. When it does, my walls shake, the sound is deafening and it sounds as if a train is running across my roof. I do not usually even hear the smallplanes that take off from there unless I am outside and they fly directly overhead.
@Ed
That argument of “people who move close to an airport should expect expansion” is hogwash. That is like saying, “People who move next to a playground should expect an amusement park to be built there” or “People who move next to an empty lot should expect a garbage dump to be put there” or “People who move next to a house should expect a skyscraper to be built there some day.” Get the picture?
A pilot
June 22nd, 2010
9:55 am
I been at the Airport for about 12-14 years now and During that time I have seen it all. the smaller jets come and go the Loud single engine planes flying below what there published altitude to fly over their or someones house. Lear Jets come and Go and they are Known to be the loudest plane in the sky! there is roughly 6 Loud jets coming and going out of Gwinnett on a regular basis.
Here is your problem None of you that are complaining have a clue what goes on at the Airport!
the Jets they would be able to bring in are NOT 737’s or the bigger Jets but the much smaller commuter type Planes either twin Prop or Jet, 20-30 passenger tops. the runway and taxiways and not stressed to Handle much Bigger. Look it up!!
20-30 flights Ha that is nothing, Lawrenceville airport has to average between 300-400 movements a day as it is now. with about 20-30 of those being Jets already!
Get a Grip folks, Athens hasn’t changed and they have commuter flights in there and have had them for years.
Vince
June 22nd, 2010
10:15 am
@ A Pilot
Actually, the company that wants to privatize Briscoe states 737’s will be landing at Briscoe. So will the Boeing 717 and the Airbus 319 and the MD 90.
I know enough about the airport to know there have been three crashes into residential areas in the last couple of years.
Okay, for those of you who care nothing about the tens of thousands of people who live within two miles of the runway, here is something else to consider.
All of the roads around Briscoe are currently little two lane roads that don’t even have curbs. These roads will have to be upgraded. The company itself states that road improvements would be paid for with “local and state funds.”
Maybe money means more to you than people.
sam
June 22nd, 2010
1:59 pm
While I see that that the airport privatiztion might have some economic benifits I also believe it’s also going to reduce the quality of live in Gwinnett. The airport expansion will bring more airplane noice and more traffic congestion which will reduce property values in Lawrenceville. Look at Lawrenceville now and look then at College Park…Lawernceville will look like College Park if this thing goes through.
John Hennecy
June 22nd, 2010
3:22 pm
Enter your comments here
Oppose-Oppose-Oppose- Expansion of Briscoe field would create intolerable Levels of Traffic and Noise which would have a disastrous Effect on the Local Schools, Churches, Hospitals, Residences and quality of life for the citizens of Gwinnett county. This is just another step in the long line of miserable decisions made the Gwinnett County Board of Commisioners that eventually cost the taxpayers more and more each year.
Jason
June 22nd, 2010
3:59 pm
Folks,
If the Athens airport can somehow handle small and I stress small regional aircraft than Lawrenceville can handle this type of traffic.
Like all airports that are surrounded by communities there are NOISE ABATEMENT PROCEDURES. And somehow the athens economy in the surrounding area is still surviving… Ha what a surprise. millions of dollars going into the city… amazing! Here is what a pilot would see in a noise abatement procedure. And as a pilot we do follow all procedures and protocols.
Good Neighbor Program
NOISE ABATEMENT PROCEDURES
Fixed Wing Aircraft
Athens Ben Epps Airport is located in a noise-sensitive area surrounded by residential communities. The Good Neighbor Program has been developed to further reduce noise levels in the vicinity of the airport. We ask that all operators participate to their fullest.
Important: These procedures are recommened for arrivals and departures at AHN. However, they are not intended to abrogate safe aircraft operations and compliance with overriding directives.
NBAA Standard Departure Procedure (for business jets only)
The prime requirement for an acceptable noise abatement procedure is that it will ensure operational safety. Secondly, it should provide the lowest sound level for noise-sensitive areas surrounding AHN.
NBAA Approach and Landing Procedure (for business jets only)
Initial inbound altitude for noise abatement areas will be a descending path from 3,300′ MSL or higher. Maintain a minimum airspeed (1.3 V + 20 KIAS) with gear retracted and minimum approach flap setting.
Use of Reverse Thrust
Limit the use of thrust reverse at other than idle power and limit the use of reverse thrust to perform early runway turnoff. Full length taxiways are availble.
Maintenance Runups
Runups for maintenance are discouraged from 10 PM to 7 AM.
Preferential Runway Use
When the tower is closed and safety permits, Runway 9 is the preferred runway for departure..
Intersection Takeoffs
For noise abatement, intersection takeoffs are not recommended.
Departure Routes
Aircraft departing the Athens Airport are strongly encouraged to fly routes avoiding noise-sensitive areas. (See map below.)
Military Operations
The use of afterburners is strongly discouraged.
Jason
June 23rd, 2010
2:05 pm
@ Vince,
You are problably so mad because you may have read the same article that I read showing that a survey conducted shows 70% agree with the airport expansion. bummer!
Alison
June 24th, 2010
10:01 pm
I leave about 4 miles from the airport and we will be affected by it as will people who live in Grayson, Dacula, Suwanee, Lawrenceville, Hall County, Barrow County and Jackson County. Wake up people, there is no undeveloped property around here. The airport would only benefit those who are not protesting it and those who will make money from it. People who live here do not want it. Jets are quieter but they are still noisy, we hear the ones that come over going to Hartsfield. To the person who said that 20 at 316 was run down that is correct but that is not the story on the north side of 316. We have nice homes, good neighborhoods with little crime, nice shopping centers and good schools. Many of the schools will be in the flight path as will Gwinnett Medical, the Justice center, the historic courthouse and the new college. If you want an airport put it in your backyard. And if you live in Gwinnett, Barrow, Hall or Jackson it will affect you by noise, traffic, lower property values( yes ours dropped but not as much as other areas) in other words quality of life. The city of Lawrenceville doesn’t even want it expanded. The difference with Athens and Gwinnett is that they won’t stop at small, they will want to keep expanding it. Wonder who they sent the survey too, no one in my neighborhood or my church has every seen it. .
LZU Pilot
June 24th, 2010
10:34 pm
If Atlanta needs another airport, why not consider Dobbins? Dobbins already has a more than adequate runway for commercial operators and space to expand. The Naval Air Station is now gone from there so that leaves plenty of space for commercial terminals, etc. There are *lots* of joint use (military and civilian) airports around the country.
The fact remains that Propeller, Inc. basically wants the county to GIVE them the airport on a silver platter. This plan has nothing to do with fulfilling the needs of the Atlanta area, it’s about Propeller Inc. getting a sweetheart deal. They’ve done they’re homework and they know that here in very red Gwinnett any mention of the word ‘privatization’ is met with open arms.
There is no mention in their plans of the 400+ airplanes that are currently based at LZU that pay property taxes to the county. When those airplanes get ran off, so will the property taxes and Barrow, Jackson, etc. will get our taxes.
Also not mentioned is the fact that the airport will need to close for a year for runway expansion and building of the terminals. How much will that cost? Hmm…
Lori Patrick
June 25th, 2010
8:12 am
I fully support the expansion of briscoe field. I live off of hurricane shoals & as faR as the noise issue, It can’t be any different than the police & fire trucks that go out at all hours of the night, trying to keep peace in gwinnett. However if all the people that were loosing homes & personal self asteem because they can’t support their families due to lost jobs. I PERSONALLY THINK THAT THE PUBLIC OFFICIALS THAT OPPOSE THIS EXPANSIONS SHOULD SHUT UP SIT BACK & AND WELCOME THE INCREASED REVENUE THAT THIS WOULD CREATE FOR FOLKS IN GWINETT COUNTY. NOT EVERYONE CAN SIT BACK AND HAVE THE LITTLE GUY SUPPORT THERE FAMILIES.(PUBLIC OFFICIALS THAT SIT BEHIND A DESK AND STIR UP THE MIDDLE CLASS ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO TRYING TO STOP THE COMMON PERSON THAT HAS THE GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO SUPPORT THEIR FAMILIES).they wouldn’t know what to do if the bank showed up on their front door & threw their personal items out on the street just for the unemployed & homeless to pick apart their life & lock the door behind them. They hav no idea what if feels like to have to start over especially when their use to making hundreds & thousands of dollars a year. So for once do something that means alot to more than just 1 person. I SAY ON WITH THE EXPANSION WHAT TOOK YOU SO LONG.
Cheryl
June 25th, 2010
2:59 pm
There is more to this issue than just NOISE people! NO I do not want this airport to expand. I love Lawrenceville. It is my home and I will HATE what this is going to do to the town. This is a beautiful residential community with a small country airport. If you turn it in a large commercial airport then you also expand, traffic, air pollution, eye pollution, noise pollution and an increase crime. Everything that I moved here for will be threatened. Home values anywhere close to the noise and pollution will decrease even more than they already have. We will loose our schools and the top rated teachers that work here. We will see a decline in services in the area because the property values are so low. We will see an increase in the types of low paying businesses we don’t need in the area while larger more stable business will move away from the noise and congestion.
All of you people that are so for this expansion would be right here saying NO if it was your home and your way of life that was threatened. We are not a bunch of whiney NIMBY people. THIS IS HOME. THIS IS A WAY OF LIFE. Do you understand that? Don’t give me that TRIPE about “well you moved near an airport”. That is just a bunch of hogwash and you know it. The people here in Lawrenceville have just as many rights as everyone else. The real problem here is that we have a bunch of County Commissioners that think they can push through major way of life changes without giving their constituents the right to vote on it. It makes me wonder exactly how much money is going into the pockets of our commissioners from outside sources? What promise have they made in exchange for promises made to them? How much money did they make personally for that Ball Park? And the garbage companies that were selected, how much under the table money did they have to pay? Now we have this Airport. What kind of a sweet deal are they getting from the Commissioners? This whole year of BOC decisions just STINKS of money and how much is in it for them.
MKS
June 26th, 2010
11:31 pm
There are a at least 7- 12 schools in the immediate area of the airport. The only mass commercial part is the Mall of Georgia which already causes congestion on the roads. There are soccer fields right across from 316. This is a family-friendly area and a great place to bring up kids. I hope the county government doesn’t ruin our community just because they want to bring in more revenue. People who need to commute using airlines can drive to Hartsfield in 45 minutes. The vast majority of Gwinnett residents work in this area and want to keep our homes safe and free of noise pollution.
Cathy
June 29th, 2010
1:29 am
I am totally against the airport expansion. I don’t live near the airport, I live near Lawrenceville. The noise, pollution and increased traffic will all affect me. I chose to live near Lawrenceville because of the small town Americana feel of downtown Lawrenceville. The surrounding tree lined roads are beautiful and make you feel like you are out of all the hussle and bussle of metro Atlanta. This is a residential area, it is not light industrial. These are established neighborhoods and lives that you will be tearing apart and once again in the name of money. Most of those jobs that they talk about at a new airport will be minimum wage. Not enough to make a mortgage payment. Don’t be fooled again with the major promise of riches. You will end up having to pay for this airport in higher taxes and still have to put up with all the inconveniences that it will bring. Please take a stand against this.
Diane
June 29th, 2010
11:01 am
Totally opposed! Property values will sink even lower!
Kathy
July 1st, 2010
10:17 am
Assurances were made in the mid-90s that Briscoe would “never” expand. Otherwise I would have moved elsewhere, rather than choosing Lawrenceville in 1997. Any new airport on the northside should be near I-85, not 316, and should be placed in a less developed or commercial-industrial area, not near thousands of homes. At a time when no one can sell their homes, this is just one more terrible blow.
Matt
July 15th, 2010
10:05 am
No one has brought up the pathetic state of traffic on 316. If you are in Duluth and have a 5pm flight at Briscoe, you are going to have to leave at 3p, you might as well drive to Hartsfield, it will take less time.
If you have a flight on the same day as a Bulldogs game you are screwed.
NVD
July 20th, 2010
6:20 pm
I live under the pattern and I support expansion. My only problem is that this airport is self-sufficient, which is rare for a general avaition (non-airline) airport, so why privatize? If airlines really are in the county’s best interest (and I think it is), then the commisioners just need to grow a pair and do it themselves rather than privatize. Privatization just gives them someone else to blame if things go wrong.
Weyman
July 28th, 2010
8:37 pm
I worked for Gwinnett County for 30 years. I have watched the airport grow; I have watched Ga 316 go well beyond it’s capacity as well as all the other roads in the area; I have watched the schools go beyond their capacity and business crowd out residences well over 100 years old. This county is not improving from what is was…it is going down hill and will continue to do so. We have been running about ten years behind Dekalb County. You only need to drive that direction to see what it has become and what Gwinnett will look like. The county never considers the infrastructure before bringing in more and more. I along with others have testified before planning commissions to tell them what the problems are but they did refuse to listen and will continue to do so. Each new set of commissioners that come in promises something new or different. None of them have made any improvements. The airport will be no different. Once they screw that up along with the community around it, another set of commissioners will come along and find something else to destroy. The problem with this area is that non-natives have moved in bringing with them the garbage they moved away from. Life here was very good for many years but it will never be the same again. We who have families back into the early 1800s can thank those that moved here. They have done more damage in 30 years than was done the previous 200 years. So let the airport expand; let Ga 316 and other roads become grid locked; let the schools continue to go downhill as they surely are; then sit back in your cars while standing on the highway; or sit in your homes while the power flickers off and on due to overload; let the judges tell us we can’t have water from the lakes and rivers and enjoy your life for soon there won’t be anything left to enjoy. Have your fun while to you can.
Cathy
September 4th, 2010
7:03 pm
So many of the comments site the fact that the airport will not affect homes out of the general area of the airport, but that is so wrong. I live fairly far from the airport, but I know that I am on some sort of flight plan. I can hear, especially as it gets into the evening, the flights going over my house. I did not move near the airport, but the airplanes will find you no matter where you are. This will affect a much larger area than we are being told. Also, who is going to pay to expand 316 so that all this new traffic can get to the airport. Guess what citizens, the Commisioners and Gwinnett will both be in our pockets looking for more money as soon as this gets started. Also, if the buyer goes under, we will be asked to cover that expense also. Think about this before you buy the old more jobs, more money for the community lie.
Marie
September 7th, 2010
1:44 pm
We live in Dacula, 5 miles from the airport. We have been residents of Gwinnett County for over 45 years, most of our life. We have been researching the airport privatization/expansion since it was first mentioned to the public months ago. We helped fight the battle in ‘93 when the expansion was billed as “Hartsfield Reliever”. At that time, EVERYONE in the county was opposed because they knew how devastating it would be to the entire county. Seems they are just calling it something different this time so people won’t really pay attention to the facts. Where are all those people now? We are strongly opposed to any expansion of the airport that will bring in 737’s, MD90’s and planes such as this. If you will research and read the information from Propeller Investments and also the official documents from Gwinnett County that were submitted to the FAA (over 300 pages long-you can link to this from the Gwinnett County government website) you will know that this will be an origin/destination airport – not a commuter airport. Plans are to tear up the existing runway and build a new runway that will accommodate large jets. I urge everyone to educate themselves on this issue and just not post what is speculation – facts speak for themselves. If you are opposed, please support us at the Commission Planning and Zoning meeting on Sept. 21st at 7:00.