Census workers can enter your apartment in your absence
Thousands of census workers, including many temporary employees, are fanning out across America to gather information on the citizenry. This is a process that takes place not only every decade in order to complete the constitutionally-mandated census; but also as part of the continuing “American Community Survey” conducted by the Census Bureau on a regular basis year in and year out.
What many Americans don’t realize, is that census workers — from the head of the Bureau and the Secretary of Commerce (its parent agency) down to the lowliest and newest Census employee — are empowered under federal law to actually demand access to any apartment or any other type of home or room that is rented out, in order to count persons in the abode and for “the collection of statistics.” If the landlord of such apartment or other leased premises refuses to grant the government worker access to your living quarters, whether you are present or not, the landlord can be fined $500.00.
That’s right — not only can citizens be fined if they fail to answer the increasingly intrusive questions asked of them by the federal government under the guise of simply counting the number of people in the country; but a landlord must give them access to your apartment whether you’re there or not, in order to gather whatever “statistics” the law permits.
In fact, some census workers apparently are going even further and demanding — and receiving — private cell phone numbers from landlords in order to call tenants and obtain information from them. Isn’t it great to live in a “free” country?
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1,749 comments Add your comment
NAS
June 1st, 2010
11:46 pm
Don’t believe everything you hear and half a what see! Census workers aren’t allowed to go into your apts, it not necessary. I am a census worker and me doing FBI work ( which I’m not getting paid for) is not going to help because if u r not there respond, how can I confirm the info i find is really represents ur situation w/o u telling me that u live at ur residence on April 1st , I can only assume, which we aren’t allowed to do. We are allowed to get the info from ur neighbors and landlords, we give u the option to give it to 1st and if u dodge us we will keep coming back or get as much info as we can from someone who knows u. We don’t force u 2 answer anything and if lie about the info we really don’t know unless u tell us, nor are we going verify it with anybody, so it best to fill it out so we won’t keep coming back! Honesty is appreciated though!v When ur future ancestors come to look for in 72 years, it may hard to find u due to ur presence wasn’t accounted for 2010 or prior decades.
Lacey
June 2nd, 2010
6:58 am
I think this article is probably a bunch of poop and as an avid geneaologist and statistician, I love the census for the information it gives us.
What I don’t love is that first the Census Bureau sends me a letter telling me that soon they’ll be sending my census form for me to fill out. Then they send the form. I send it back and they start calling me. I’m really bad about returning phone calls so they called approximately once every two days for two weeks before I called them back, only to be asked, essentially a repeat of the census form. It’s all kinda redundant and a waste of money. The prequel letter was uneccesary and a waste of postage. The form wouldn’t have been a waste of money if it weren’t for the time, effort, and money that went into talking to them on the phone. They should have just skipped the printing step for both the letter and the fom, not paid for postage, and simpy called me. Preferably using phone reps with a better command of the english lanugage than the one I talked to.
Bob Ress
June 2nd, 2010
8:46 am
I work for the census bureau. We CANNOT enter an unoccupied apartment or house (how are we supposed to count the occupants if they aren’t there??) in fact we are advised not to enter an OCCUPIED apartment or house. We CAN enter and APARTMENT BUILDING as many have locked entrances, and we need access to knock on doors.
As for the “intrusive questions,” the most personal is whether children are adopted or biological, and whether you have a mortgage or rent. (NOT the amount of your mortgage or rent.)
Wondering . . .
June 2nd, 2010
9:00 am
To Bob Ress:
No offense to you, Bob, but it’s not anyone’s business whether I own or rent, or whether my children are adopted/biological.
I happily informed my lil’ census worker how many people reside in my abode and how long we’ve resided here. She can discern that I am Caucasian and speak English. That’s all the information I am giving.
Why not use tax returns for garnering information?
Linda
June 2nd, 2010
9:05 am
Lacey, there’s a reason the census sent out a heads-up letter before they sent the census forms. According to the head of the census, they found that giving people advance notice boosts voluntary participation by 8 to 12 percent. And for every 1% of people who voluntarily respond to the first census form, the bureau saves, like, $10 million in followup costs (i.e., hiring people like me to visit you). Some neighborhoods (like mine) are known for their low participation rate. So those neighborhoods also automatically got a second form because they’ve found that this saves money in the long run too. All of these steps were designed to get people to send their forms in as soon as they got them, to avoid having huge followup costs.
If your form wasn’t received by April 17, they send someone out to visit you. You can hardly complain about all the “time, effort, and money that went into talking to them on the phone” when the interview itself takes less than 10 minutes. If you’re so concerned that this is costing the taxpayers so much, you’re the one who needed to take some personal responsibility, call them back when they left the first phone message and get it over with.
As an enumerator, I’ve run into all kinds of people who are going through major life issues where they weren’t able to make it a priority to fill out their census form. Whatever the reason, I’m more than glad to give people this “curb service” and they often thank me for getting them counted. What frustrates me is when people drag this out, even after I tell them it takes 5 minutes. There are a few people I’ve had to spend major amounts of time emailing back and forth to set a time to talk with them, or who keep having me come back because “now is not a good time.” It would take a fraction of the time for people just to pick up the phone and do it.
You're Wrong
June 2nd, 2010
9:23 am
Just letting you know that you’re entirely wrong in what you are implying. Yes, census workers must be allowed “access” to an apartment building or condominium complex, so they can knock on a person’s door to gain information about how many persons lived in that particular unit on April 1, 2010, Census Day. It’s irresponsible to imply that “access” means that census workers in any capacity have any right to enter personal residences for ANY purpose. That’s a complete and utter fabrication that is fueling this anti-government sentiment that is dividing this country.
You should be ashamed of yourselves for perpetrating this myth instead of just advising people that everyone has a right to refuse to answer any demographic information requested by a census worker, EXCEPT how many people lived in a particular living unit on April 2, 2010.
I would use my name and correct email, but as a 2010 census enumerator, I have promised not to appear in the “media” representing the US Census Bureau.
Honesty is the best policy when it comes to disseminating information.
Good luck in your debate.
You're Wrong
June 2nd, 2010
9:25 am
Slip of the fingers….
“EXCEPT how many people lived in a particular living unit on April 2, 2010.”
Meant to say April 1, 2010…. Census Day
Sorry.
Wondering . . .
June 2nd, 2010
9:31 am
To You’re Wrong:
I’ve already informed my census worker how many people reside in our home and how long we’ve lived here. Why does she continue to hound me? I understand why Hannibal Lecter ate his census taker.
Chuck B
June 2nd, 2010
1:21 pm
I gave the guy a letter which stated that I refused to answer any questions about any thing except number of people in the building. He did not press on the subject. Since my name, birthday, marital status, domicile status, and race have absolutely nothing to do with “Number of people,” the information was not given.
The so-called “Community Survey” has absolutely nothing to do with reapportionment. And the only thing that does is “Number of people” every 10 years. That’s it, that’s all.
Wondering . . .
June 2nd, 2010
1:55 pm
To Chuck B.:
Good for you! Obviously, your census taker didn’t attend “Pit Bull Academy” with my lil’ census enumerator; she’s relentless. I’m considering electrifying my door knocker!
You're Wrong
June 2nd, 2010
4:06 pm
To Wondering: Ask your pit-bull census enumerator for their Crew Leader’s phone number or for the phone number of your LCO (Local Census Office). Contact them and ask them why your enumerator would be pressing you for anything beyond what you have already told them (the number of people living in your home on 1 April 2010). I’d be very interested to hear what the LCO or the Crew Leader tell you in response.
As I’ve said, the only information that you are REQUIRED to give is the number of people living in a domicile on April 1, 2010. All of the demographic information can be politely REFused, including your name (as a respondent) and your phone number. I’ve completed dozens of Enumerator Questionnaires with nothing more than the # of persons occupying a residence and the REFused as a response to every other question and I have not received a single EQ back for correction.
The # of occupants is the only thing you have to divulge. Anyone that thinks that giving that information is invasive is an idiot since that statistic is what will bring the right number of firemen to your door when you dial 911, and will also insure that you have adequate representation in Congress when you decide to vote them all out in the fall.
Also, your property tax records already probably divulge MUCH MORE than the Census Bureau us asking for including your NAME & ADDRESS and internet sources like WhitePages.com and Zabasearch.com will oftentimes give your phone number based on the address and name listed in property tax records.
All of this nonsense about how invasive the Census Questionnaire’s are is a bit paranoid. Yes, the “Community Survey” is a lot more detailed (28 pages) document that was SENT to homes to be filled out, sometimes in addition to a normal census questionnaire being sent, but the Enumerator Questionnaire being carried door to door is minimalistic. How many people here on 1 APR 2010?, names?, relationships of people in the home to the respondent?, ages on 1 April 2010 & Dates of Birth?, any one of Hispanic/Latino/Spanish origins?, race?, anywhere else you sometimes live?, anyone that you might have forgotten?, rent/own?, name again?, phone number? AND THAT’S IT!
2 people – REFuse – REFuse – REFuse – REFuse, etc. …
YOU’RE DONE!
Thanks and go back to what you were doing – see you again in ten years if you haven’t fallen off the earth….
You’re Wrong
PS …we’re all American idiots for fighting over this nonsense while the real enemies laugh at our idiocy and in-house bickering.
seanmom
June 2nd, 2010
4:22 pm
“use tax reforms to garner information and eliminate the census! Way to save money, Uncle Sam!”
I assume you mean “tax forms.” Nice idea, but the Supreme Court has ruled that the Constitution requires an actual enumeration–a physical head count, not an assumption from documents or statistical tricks.
Also, to those claiming that only “number of people” is Constitutionally required, the Court has upheld the right of the Bureau of the Census to devise its own questions. There are many different surveys that are now done by the Census that used to be done by other entities, and all of them (including the ACS) carry penalties for refusal to answer (”willful” refusal).
Whether there is a mortgage on the house in which you live, whether it is owned or rented–these are important statistics for the city planners to know–not necessarily where YOU live, but what the economic character of your NEIGHBORHOOD as a whole is. Rentals and owned houses carry different connotations for the future of the community. A spike in rentals signals a downturn in home values, which local officials need to anticipate when looking at long-term funding for schools and city services.
You may not understand why this info is important, but it is to those who are trying to understand how to serve your communities. It is public information. Just because YOU have it does not make it YOUR information. This information resides in a number of different places in public records, but it is the census that is tasked with gathering it into one place so it can be collectively processed.
The census is not “coming” for you. What particular aspect of census information is it that you think they could use “against” you, and why would President Bush have wanted to do such a thing, anyway?
Whoever is elected president in 2016 will shape the NEXT census, so if there’s something you want changed, be sure and let that person know. Or press your Congress to take stronger control over the process and the questions (I’m sure Pelosi would just LOVE some more control over something). But, this go-round, you have to answer the questions. And if you don’t, your community will look a lot smaller, and your congressional representation will get a lot bigger. Or you can just depend on your state-wide elected Senators (no more than 2 to a state) to make up for the House representatives you lose by hiding.
Wondering . . .
June 2nd, 2010
4:36 pm
To Seanmom:
Yes, I meant tax FORM (or tax return form).
You stated: “The census is not ‘coming’ for you. What particular aspect of census information is it that you think they could use ‘against’ you, and why would President Bush have wanted to do such a thing, anyway?”
You are arguing a point I never made. Please show me where I stated the census was “coming” for me or that the census could use information “against” me.
Why are you making such incendiary remarks?
Wondering . . .
June 2nd, 2010
4:47 pm
To You’re Wrong:
Thank you for your assistance. I will, indeed, ask my census taker for her crew leader’s number or the LCO number. As I mentioned, I have revealed how many reside here and for how long. Surely she has determined that I am Caucasian and speak English fluently (despite misusing “reform” for “form.”)
I have been very polite to my lil’ census taker, and she to me. However, her frequent visits are becoming tedious. Perhaps I’ll set-up a pest strip.
Ben
June 2nd, 2010
7:56 pm
Linda, Now tell the truth, be honest; you’d love to be involved in the Indian census wouldn’t you? Just think, finger prints,photographs, all sorts of personal information, etc., etc., Admit it. A little authority…….
jahway
June 2nd, 2010
8:18 pm
Hmm…. Where did you get your information? I worked for the census and there is nothing about requirement to go INTO people’s houses when they are not home, or even if they are. Why would a census worker need to go into someone’s apartment when they are not there? That doesn’t make sense, since the job is to count people. (someone stated this already)
From my knowledge people do refuse to do the census. Furthermore, some fill it out late, and when the census worker comes the person can and does refuse to interview.
What reports are there of census workers stealing things when they are in people’s houses? Does it happen? Maybe but so do your children’s friends sometimes. Are you going to bar them from coming in?
Of all the things that this nation does, you are pointing out the census as something that restricts your freedom? Since when did answering a few questions bar you from freedoms?
Stop with the fearmongering please… it doesn’t help anything. As I look through the messages on this board what it is doing for some is cultivating hate for the government and particularly the Obama administation. As well as census workers who are just doing their job to have people counted. geez.
(Yes this is the first census ever! Its all Obama’s fault. Actually no, it has been going on since 1790 (WAY before Obama was ever thought of, as before the Democratic party as well)… come on people, are you really that prejudice against another political party to blame the census on them? the irrationality is dumbfounding…)
Census Taker
June 2nd, 2010
8:26 pm
I wonder what you wingnut dips did in the past censuses, that were far longer and more intrusive than the one we’re doing now?
There’s no need to get mad at us, we’re only doing our job (not really worth $12 an hour to deal with the occasional surly respondent or overgrown dog)
Though it seems the maps done in update/leave (leaving the census back in March) are inaccurate everywhere in Georgia. I’ve had people tell me I was the 2nd or 3rd person to come by, and I don’t blame those people for being tired of it.
Matt
June 2nd, 2010
11:46 pm
Wow, some of you need to relax. I am not sure exactly what you are proving by not providing the information that is asked. All it does is help the government best utilize its funds. No other reason. By refusing to answer those questions you are only hurting the government, which is in turn hurting you.
Oh, and no census enumerators are not allowed to enter your apartment without your permission. And apartments managers are in fact required to give at the very least access to the apartment building (the building, not the specific apartments) and to supply names of those living there. See United States Code, Title 13, Section 223.
Linda
June 3rd, 2010
9:43 am
Matt: “I am not sure exactly what you are proving by not providing the information that is asked. All it does is help the government best utilize its funds.”
Good point, Matt! Some folks have been complaining about the American Community Survey here, how that’s so intrusive. However, if you’re chosen to fill that out, the government actually plans their services around the data from YOUR HOUSEHOLD and the other ACS respondents in your community. It’s kind of like being picked to be a Nielsen family, where TV shows are extended or dropped depending on what you and the other chosen families watch.
For those of you who doubt this, talk to your state and local government agencies; heck, even if you check out their websites, you will see references to the ACS for long-range planning. Good community services just don’t happen by themselves, planners have to know their population.
Too bad there’s not better civics education about how society works, or at least training in critical thinking skills. That would help drive away some of this rampant irrational fear. (Like the fear that Muslim terrorists are going to wait around and sift through census data to figure out where they’re going to strike next. I’m still shaking my head over that one.)
Linda
June 3rd, 2010
9:58 am
@ You’re Wrong: You’re wrong, it’s not that simple. We are supposed to go to the door several times to try to get all or most of the information. If we’ve attempted that too few times and recorded refusals, then turn in the forms, the crew leaders return them to us to work harder to get complete information. Directing someone to contact the supervisor to complain about this is probably not going to help, and will only frustrate and anger the respondent.
It’s probably best not to make blanket recommendations to respondents about this, as it seems to be kind of a gray area. I think there are stronger or more lax policies about this depending on what area you’re in.
so
Wondering . . .
June 3rd, 2010
11:15 am
To Census Taker:
You stated: “I wonder what you wingnut dips did in the past censuses, that were far longer and more intrusive than the one we’re doing now?
There’s no need to get mad at us, we’re only doing our job (not really worth $12 an hour to deal with the occasional surly respondent or overgrown dog)”
You sound really angry, Census Taker. Why take the $12 an hour job to deal with “wingnut dips”?
Wondering . . .
June 3rd, 2010
11:17 am
To Linda:
So, my lil’ census taker wants the entire form completed, eh? That’s what I suspected. May I refuse to answer additional questions without penalty? TIA.
Ben
June 3rd, 2010
3:25 pm
Wondering, If you have provided the number of individuals residing at you address, you certainly may refuse to answer additional questions from your lil’ census taker. That is all the information to which the Census Bureau is Constitutionally entitled and all you are Constitutionally required to provide. Any talk of fines and other penalties are simply empty threats.
If she continues to insist that you must answer other questions, order her off your property and call the police if she refuses to leave.
Wondering . . .
June 3rd, 2010
3:46 pm
Ben, thank you for responding. My lil’ census taker—I doubt she’s over 5′—is very tenacious. I’ve lost count how many times she has visited. I told her how many reside here and for how long, but she wants more information.
I’m never late paying my bills/taxes, am a law-abiding citizen, but am being hounded for not answering questions I deem too personal. Go figure.
Again, thank you for your help.
VB-lco-clerk
June 3rd, 2010
4:48 pm
I am a clerk in the VA Beach VA LCO. No, people cannot simply enter a dwelling. However, enumerators were told that as of today “non-responses (from citizens) are not permitted.” The general vibe in my office is based on fear and intimidation. Some of us feel we are being asked to do “wrong” things. Any other comments from other offices?
billybob
June 3rd, 2010
5:37 pm
My cell phone rang today. When I answered it, a women Id herself as a census worker who had come by my house last week while I was out of town. I asked how she got my cell number. She replied she got it off a package on my front porch (had been delivered while I was out of town). Seems they now read your mail to gain info on you. Isn’t that a violation of federal law? Oh, she is a federal employee so it’s okay. I told she already had enough info on me. She got very nasty with me and asked if she could mark down I refused to answer. By then I was pretty pissed off, so I told her “yeah”. She then sarcastically told me “You do know someone else will contact you. I replied “Fine!!” and hung up. You think the”ll arrest me…or maybe fine me $100.00 bucks. What’s this country coming to?????
Wondering . . .
June 3rd, 2010
6:23 pm
To billybob:
Too bad your caller ID didn’t record your census taker’s phone number. You could give her a ringy-ding during the wee hours to inquire her blood type, color of underwear, number of daily bowel movements, etc.
Why anyone would want such an intrusive, nosy job is beyond me.
Wondering . . .
June 3rd, 2010
6:35 pm
My lil’ census taker just left a note wedged in my front door frame: “Please call me asap.”
I guess I’ll play cat-and-mouse with her for another two months. You think she’d take a hint. What a pest!
Ben
June 3rd, 2010
6:44 pm
Wandering, watch this.
http://atlah.org/atlahworldwide/?p=6568
Wondering . . .
June 3rd, 2010
7:32 pm
To Ben:
Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for that link! I love it! I’ll definitely remember “Miranda warning”!
Ben
June 3rd, 2010
8:01 pm
More.
To Whom it May Concern,
Pursuant to Article I, Section 2, Clause 3 of the Constitution, the only information you are empowered to request is the total number of occupants at this address. My “name, sex, age, date of birth, race, ethnicity, telephone number, relationship and housing tenure” have absolutely nothing to do with apportioning direct taxes or determining the number of representatives in the House of Representatives. Therefore, neither Congress nor the Census Bureau have the constitutional authority to make that information request a component of the enumeration outlined in Article I, Section 2, Clause 3. In addition, I cannot be subject to a fine for basing my conduct on the Constitution because that document trumps laws passed by Congress.
Interstate Commerce Commission v. Brimson, 154 U.S. 447, 479 (May 26, 1894)
“Neither branch of the legislative department [House of Representatives or Senate], still less any merely administrative body [such as the Census Bureau], established by congress, possesses, or can be invested with, a general power of making inquiry into the private affairs of the citizen. Kilbourn v. Thompson, 103 U.S. 168, 190. We said in Boyd v. U.S., 116 U. S. 616, 630, 6 Sup. Ct. 524,―and it cannot be too often repeated,―that the principles that embody the essence of constitutional liberty and security forbid all invasions on the part of government and it’s employees of the sanctity of a man’s home and the privacies of his life. As said by Mr. Justice Field in Re Pacific Ry. Commission, 32 Fed. 241, 250, ‘of all the rights of the citizen, few are of greater importance or more essential to his peace and happiness than the right of personal security, and that involves, not merely protection of his person from assault, but exemption of his private affairs, books, and papers from inspection and scrutiny of others. Without the enjoyment of this right, all others would lose half their value.’”
Note: This United States Supreme Court case has never been overturned.
Respectfully,
A Citizen of the United States of America
Ben
June 3rd, 2010
8:06 pm
If she wants entrance, demand to see her warrant, issued by a
Submitted by austrianschool on Wed, 12/03/2008 – 14:03.
court of competent jurisdiction, bearing the seal of the court and the signature of the clerk thereof, supported by oath or affirmation and particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized. Otherwise, “good day” and shut the door. Do right. Fear not.
“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”
____________
seanmom
June 3rd, 2010
9:07 pm
Ben,
You are not a lawyer, and you are giving bad advice. The idea that you don’t have to answer the questions was dealt with in the 2000 census, regarding both the short- and long-form census (now the American Communities Survey), and the Court found in favor of the government. This is the latest case law on this question. Here is the link to the case: http://www.txs.uscourts.gov/news/mh/mh00-1010op.pdf
Usually, the penalty is not imposed and the case is handled as a refusal. But making a big deal out of it may well make you the lucky one that becomes the example of what happens when you don’t answer the legally required questions.
Ben
June 3rd, 2010
9:23 pm
Seanmom, Exactly how is it that you know I am not an attorney?
Wondering . . .
June 3rd, 2010
10:00 pm
To Ben:
Thank you for your help. I appreciate your encouragement.
Ya know, I am willing to go to jail for not answering the remaining census questions. If I have access to a computer in the pokey, I’ll keep you posted.
seanmom
June 3rd, 2010
10:01 pm
Ben, I recant. I do not in fact know that you are not a lawyer. I was merely assuming that, based on the fact that most of your legal responses appear to be incorrect. However, I could be wrong. After all, if Fred Phelps and Barack Obama can be lawyers, I suppose anybody can.
Wondering . . .
June 3rd, 2010
10:08 pm
To seanmom:
Still waiting for you to clarify your remarks . . .
seanmom: “The census is not ‘coming’ for you. What particular aspect of census information is it that you think they could use ‘against’ you, and why would President Bush have wanted to do such a thing, anyway?”
Really, seanmom, where did you ever come up with such notions? I never mentioned any of the above.
It appears those in defense of the census are a bit angry/hyper. Why do you care who completes the census?
seanmom
June 3rd, 2010
10:15 pm
You can claim your race is “human” or “American.” hide in the basement, and call your dogs all you like. But this is the actual law mandating answers to not just THIS census, but the ACS and any other survey from the Department of Commerce:
(a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or
willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any
other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce
or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the
Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his
knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in
connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I,
II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to
the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or
farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not
more than $100.
(b) Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a)
of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances
described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is
false, shall be fined not more than $500.
(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person
shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his
religious beliefs or to membership in a religious body.
(13 U.S.C. § 221 : US Code – Section 221: Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers)
Wondering . . .
June 3rd, 2010
10:27 pm
To seanmom:
You wrote: “You can claim your race is ‘human’ or ‘American.’ hide in the basement, and call your dogs all you like. But this is the actual law mandating answers to not just THIS census, but the ACS and any other survey from the Department of Commerce. . . .”
Was the above addressed to me? If so, you must have me confused with another poster. I have never claimed “human” or “American” as my race. Never mentioned anything about a basement or dogs, either.
I don’t have anything to hide, seanmom. I just prefer not answering questions that are clearly nobody’s business.
seanmom
June 3rd, 2010
11:55 pm
“Really, seanmom, where did you ever come up with such notions? I never mentioned any of the above”
Perhaps you should read the entire thread. Many have expressed the attitude I am addressing. I am writing for all the readers, not just for you.
“It appears those in defense of the census are a bit angry/hyper. Why do you care who completes the census?”
Maybe some of the census workers are a bit angry because they have been dealing with this idiocy anywhere from a few weeks to (as in my case) seven months, knowing how the census operates, and spending countless hours clearing up misunderstandings, and dealing with members of the public whose mindless hostility borders on insanity. And, in my case, as a conservative, it is rather frustrating to be assumed a liberal, when I have spent literal YEARS in the cyberspace wars fighting for conservatism and exposing the tricks of liberalism. I’m not doing this job because of the man in the White House. I am doing this job because it’s in the Constitution. I am saddened by the number of my fellow conservatives–including commentators I respect and listen to every day–whose paranoia could end up taking representation AWAY from conservative areas. If your goal is to end up with places like California getting even MORE liberal Congressmen, and places like Texas and Idaho and Montana LOSING representation, keep avoiding the census.
It is frustrating to see a drive-by article like this (again, coming from a “conservative” who wants to repeal the Defense of Marriage Act) go out into cyberspace with never any official clarification or apology.
Census workers are doing a job that’s a lot harder than it looks. Yes, some of them don’t do the work assigned, but those people are (to the best of our knowledge) caught by the quality checks that are annoying you all so much. I’ve never seen anything so double-checked in my whole life. And I’m sorry if it disrupts your life to have someone stand on your porch for ten minutes and ask your race, but this will never happen to you more than ten times in your entire life. (By the way, in this census, the enumerator is supposed to ask your race, not presume it, and allow you to describe yourself. They’re hoping YOU know what it is.)
Census workers all over the nation are working day and night, and the
Cargosquid
June 3rd, 2010
11:59 pm
Seanmom and Linda have done a good job in describing the Census process.
As a conservative, I am ashamed at my fellow “conservatives”, if that’s what they are trying to be, in their complete and utter failure to comprehend basic reading. Instead of blindly believing the worst of their fellow Americans and believing a fear mongering article that doesn’t even have a link to a source, I thought that conservatives would make sure of the law before stating threats of violence.
No wonder the liberals think we’re all gun-toting rednecks waiting to shoot someone. And I say that as a gun-toting redneck. Would you all rather be seen as blustering buffoons hiding behind a keyboard? Do you all really and truly think that the enumerators are out to get your personal information so that the government will come get you personally? Really? Even though they have this info from other sources already? Do you really think that any enumerator is going to enter an empty apartment? For what reason? Has anyone, anywhere, EVER seen evidence of this happening? What has happened to Americans that they are falling for this tripe?
For all of you stating that all you have to do is state the number living there, fine. Go ahead. Guess what? You will now force the government to spend more of YOUR money to track down the info they need to satisfy constitutional requirements:
The U.S. Constitution empowers the Congress to carry out the census in “such manner as they shall by Law direct” (Article I, Section 2). In 1954, Congress codified earlier census acts and all other statutes authorizing the decennial census as Title 13, U.S. Code. Title 13, U.S. Code, does not specify which subjects or questions are to be included in the decennial census. However, it does require the Census Bureau to notify Congress of general census subjects to be addressed 3 years before the decennial census and the actual questions to be asked 2 years before the decennial census.
Questions beyond a simple count are Constitutional
It is constitutional to include questions in the decennial census beyond those concerning a simple count of the number of people. On numerous occasions, the courts have said the Constitution gives Congress the authority to collect statistics in the census. As early as 1870, the Supreme Court characterized as unquestionable the power of Congress to require both an enumeration and the collection of statistics in the census. The Legal Tender Cases, Tex.1870; 12 Wall., U.S., 457, 536, 20 L.Ed. 287. In 1901, a District Court said the Constitution’s census clause (Art. 1, Sec. 2, Clause 3) is not limited to a headcount of the population and “does not prohibit the gathering of other statistics, if ‘necessary and proper,’ for the intelligent exercise of other powers enumerated in the constitution, and in such case there could be no objection to acquiring this information through the same machinery by which the population is enumerated.” United States v. Moriarity, 106 F. 886, 891 (S.D.N.Y.1901).
So, for all of you Constitutional scholars out there, here is your info.
Of course, your personal identifiable info is considered confidential to any other agency for 72 years. It is only the aggregate that is used. And for those that are worried that certain information will be used to slant political influence, then why is withholding your information going to prevent that? You just withheld any input that slants it to your side, whichever that is.
To the people that are “stringing along” their enumerators, grow up. If you don’t want to answer the questionnaire, then tell them that you refuse to answer. Then, at least they can turn that in. I mean, its so dangerous that you tell them the minimum of: the number of residents, name, male/female, hispanic or not, and race. Pick 3.
This is one of the few Constitutionally mandated things that the Congress does do. And you people want to make it harder? To make Congress think that it needs more laws to enforce it? You think that by not answering a few questions that you’re fighting back against the goverment? Did you feel this way in 1960, 70,80, 90, or 2000? Or earlier, did your parents think that? C’mon, get a grip.
seanmom
June 4th, 2010
12:19 am
Sorry about that. Something blinked my computer. Anyway, you have no idea how many people are working 24 hours a day (literally) to get this project done. We would like to fulfill the Constitutional mandate to get an accurate count. Undermining the accuracy of that count just adds ammo to the people who want to argue for taking the census through imputed statistics rather than a direct head count. I don’t think you can imagine how easy that would be to manipulate for nefarious purposes.
Some census workers may be a bit frustrated because this isn’t some game to them. It’s their job, and they take it seriously. And it’s a Constitutional mandate, and that means something, too. They don’t care about your personal information, and they don’t understand why you want to feed them to the dogs for asking how many people live in your house. For some of them, it’s their first exposure on a wide scale to the general public, and they are somewhat disillusioned and disappointed to learn how much of it operates without much concern for or connection to facts and reality. Many of them have never been threatened before in their lives, never met really mean people, and are just now finding out that there really are a lot of deranged people free in America.
And then they come home to relax and surf the net (which they can’t do in the census office, by the way), and they find that some moron is disseminating false information that not only makes their job harder, it endangers their lives. And when they go back to the job the next day, they get a call from the crew leader informing them of things they have to do over again because they weren’t technically perfect. Or they have to drive an hour each way to a place to get re-fingerprinted because the first set were smudged. Or they read in the paper that some previously unremarkable individual used false credentials to get himself a census job and rape somebody. Meanwhile, they personally know people who didn’t get hired because they had a DUI six years ago and had almost forgotten about it–until they applied for an 8-week government job and ran into a brick wall.
It is a rewarding job, but it can also be extremely frustrating. Please excuse the census workers if they are not polite to you on this site when people are threatening to sic dogs on them, arrest them (the police will just tell you to answer the questions), and, in this forum, kill and even EAT them. Some people just don’t take well to that sort of thing.
Ley
June 4th, 2010
5:34 am
Seriously who said they were hiring black and poor workers…haha. The ones harassing me are white like me!! I don’t care about their race I just want them to know I’m not filling out that silly form.
Ben
June 4th, 2010
9:36 am
Seanmom, if, as you claim, one can be fined or otherwise punished for either refusing or providing incorrect answers to a census worker, one may certainly invoke his fifth amendment rights.
Also, it is disturbing that some of you think anyone unwilling to answer the terribly intrusive questions found in the American Community Survey are “mindlessly hostile”. Actually, my reasons for refusing to submit the ACS are very simple. The number of flush toilets in my house; the number of vehicles in my driveway; how much I pay for my utilities; my mortgage payment; what time I leave for work; etc. are simply nobody’s business. It seems that rather than accept this reasoning you would prefer to think that I see come sort of government plot, want to shoot me a census worker, or who knows what else you conjure up. I just really don’t know why it is so difficult to understand why some of us will not provide information to a total stranger that we would probably not reveal to anyone other than immediate family members.
Wondering . . .
June 4th, 2010
9:52 am
To Ben:
Exactly! Some of the census/ACS questions are clearly too personal.
I don’t understand the exaggerated tone and downright hostility displayed by a few of the census enumerators here.
Do you really think any census takers are in jeopardy of being eaten? When I joked about Hannibal Lecter eating his census taker . . . it was just that . . . a joke. Lolol.
Wondering . . .
June 4th, 2010
9:53 am
To Ben:
Just to clarify . . . I know you didn’t think census workers were in jeopary of being eaten. I meant to address the census enumerators here. My apology.
Wondering . . .
June 4th, 2010
9:55 am
Oopsie! I meant “jeoparDy”!
Ben
June 4th, 2010
10:11 am
Wondering,
I honestly believe that some of the enumerators posting here think we should feel honored to answer such questions and simply can’t understand why we wouldn’t.
Wondering . . .
June 4th, 2010
10:47 am
Ben, do you get the impression that there may be control issues at play here? I mean, why are some of the census enumerators getting all worked up over our refusal to answer personal questions?
I wonder who would even apply to be a census taker. I would never wish to infringe on someone’s privacy.
Wondering . . .
June 4th, 2010
10:51 am
seanmom,
You wrote: “Please excuse the census workers if they are not polite to you on this site when people are threatening to sic dogs on them, arrest them (the police will just tell you to answer the questions), and, in this forum, kill and even EAT them. Some people just don’t take well to that sort of thing.”
Thank you for that hilarious post! I have been laughing non-stop!