Arizona’s immigration law is constitutionally troubling

Arizona’s new immigration enforcement law, just days old, already is sparking challenges and extensive controversy.  Most Republicans, including many self-proclaimed “conservatives” who might otherwise oppose expanding government police powers, have lined up squarely behind this measure.  This is mystifying.

The law is fundamentally at odds with principles of federalism designed to reflect proper spheres of authority as between state and federal governments.  It also is in conflict with traditional notions that the police are not permitted to stop and detain individuals based on mere suspicion.

Many supporters of this measure appear to have concluded that, since the federal government has not been sufficiently vigorous or consistent in its enforcement of federal laws against illegal immigration, it is perfectly permissible for the states to step up to the plate and take on this responsibility.  Interestingly, this argument has rarely, if ever, been employed to justify states stepping into federal law enforcement shoes in any context other than immigration. 

Protecting our borders is in fact a singularly federal function; reflecting the fundamental responsibility of the national government to protect our sovereignty.  Traditionally, and appropriately, states have not been permitted to assume federal government functions; just as Washington should not be permitted to assert powers properly left to the states.  This split of enforcement authority – while in modern times often not honored by the federal government – is codified in the Constitution, including in the Tenth Amendment.

There are any number of federal laws and responsibilities that do not receive the attention many citizens and state governments believe they should; but this is hardly reason to jettison constitutionally-sound principles of federalism, and open the floodgates to states assuming federal functions. 

The vast and virtually unfettered power the new Arizona law grants local law enforcement to stop, question and detain individuals to determine if they are in the country lawfully, is even more troubling.  But here also, many citizens, state legislators, commentators, and of course, members of Congress, appear far too ready to grant police this broad power simply because it purports to address the problem of illegal immigration.

While a number of Republican supporters of the Arizona law claim that its provisions would come into play only after a police officer had lawfully stopped an individual for another offense, the clear language of the law says otherwise.  Under it, an officer need only have “lawful contact” with a person – which can be something as innocuous as passing them on the sidewalk – to provide the officer the justification to demand the person produce papers establishing their lawful status in the United States.  The only predicate then required, is that the officer have a “reasonable suspicion” the person is an unlawful alien – based on what, the statute does not say.

The new law includes many other provisions troubling because of their vagueness and breadth.  For example, a person is subject to arrest without a warrant if an officer has probable cause to believe the person has committed an offense that makes them “removable from the United States.” Determining exactly which offenses make someone “removable” is hardly an exact science.  But, insofar as being in the country unlawfully subjects one to “removal,” this provision in the law becomes completely circular.

Hopefully, the federal courts will quickly avail themselves of the opportunity to determine the constitutionality of this Arizona law.  And hopefully, they will find its exceptionally broad grant of police detention powers to be unconstitutional.  If not, it won’t be long before the same powers are sought and applied to other areas in which police agencies want to enhance their ability to detain and question individuals.  Once released, this genie will not easily be returned to the bottle

252 comments Add your comment

Dave Briggman

May 3rd, 2010
6:30 am

Respectfully, Bob, I must disagree with you on this one.

While the feds do have the responsibility to secure our federal borders, I see nothing wrong with a state “overlay”, codifying federal law, to enable the state (Arizona, in this instance) to secure its own borders.

tim2012

May 3rd, 2010
6:56 am

Go to youtube and check out – cost of illegal immigration – mexican gangs taking over america – new haven ct vietnam veterans memorial – what the local news doesn’t show you – do illegal immigrants help or hinder economic growth – border patrol.

Thom Bing

May 3rd, 2010
7:10 am

As a conservative I would think protecting the citizens of Arizona a States rights issue. When I am in another country I am required to have my passport on me at all times and produce it when asked for any reason. I don’t think that is too much to ask. If affimative action is constitutional, I don’t think there is any problem with this law.

LibraryJim

May 3rd, 2010
7:13 am

When the Federal Government WILL NOT act to secure our borders, the individual states MUST ACT to secure their borders. Arizona is doing this, and I hope other states follow their lead.

There is so much misinformation (and downright lies) around this bill, mostly from people who have NOT read it or just want to incite unreset and contribute to racial tension, that when one does read it, you have to wonder what all the fuss is about.

LibraryJim

May 3rd, 2010
7:15 am

An alternative would be to just adopt Mexico’s immigration law as our standard. Now THAT would be an example of a troubling bill. Mexico wants us to treat ‘their’ citizens who cross our border illegally as ‘human beings’ and extend our constitutional right to them, but they do not do the same for immigrants who cross THEIR border illegally. Nor do we have the same rights of citizenship in their country if we emigrate legally (no rights of property ownership, no voting right, etc.).

will shetterly

May 3rd, 2010
7:18 am

USMC DAWG

May 3rd, 2010
7:24 am

Bob, I know you are “feeling” your new Libertarian “oats”, but you are going way too far with this article. Readers, please google Bob Barr’s article titled “Prez We Need on Illegals is Long Gone” dated 5/3/2006. It is one of the best articles that I have read (it hangs from my refrigerator). BUT now Bob Barr is flip-flopping on the subject. We can no longer allow the anarchy on the southern border to go on. Where is the government of Mexico in all of this? What happened Bob, has money and old age softened you up too much?

Jeff in ATL

May 3rd, 2010
7:24 am

As I understand the law, it mandates law enforcement officers in the State of Arizona to question people they reasonably suspect to be in the country illegally; it also states that determination can not be made based on race. If not by race, then how is an officer to reasonably suspect someone may not be in the country illegally?

stw

May 3rd, 2010
7:28 am

BB: Why don’t you and Jimmy Carter just go away. Far, far away.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

May 3rd, 2010
7:34 am

It shouldn’t take much to make “lawful contact” with a person you think is a illegal. If you’re a cop, you just follow him around till he does something that lets you pull him over. Then you ask for his papers, and when he don’t have none, you haul him off to jail.

Anyhow, we got to have laws to protect us from the Terrists. I been mostly hiding under my bed ever since Fox News showed that bomb thing in Times Square. Us godly Conservatives are mighty brave when we got about 200,000 troops we can send to fight the people out to get us. But when there’s no troops, hiding is the best thing to do. Besides, these illegal Mexicans don’t know how to take decent work breaks and sick days off and such. If we don’t get them out of this country, pretty soon we’ll be the ones mowing the yards and plucking the chickens.

So phooey on Bob Barr. We need that AZ law right here in GA. Have a good day everybody.

Javier

May 3rd, 2010
7:35 am

Bob Barr is off his rocker, he is wrong just as he has flip flopped to becoming a liberal. I now want to be a police officer. Maybe i will move to Arizona!!!!

Doug

May 3rd, 2010
7:46 am

This is easy…With all the protest going on about the new law just start rounding up all the illegals that go to the protests..As for the law only the illegals have something to fear.. If you are in this country lawfully then why would this law bother you at all.. Go AZ!!!!! show um how to take care of this plague…my fix is guard towers every 300 yards with guns and just shoot um and leave um to rot

RxDawg

May 3rd, 2010
7:47 am

Tough times call for tough measures. We have a large influx of populations that aren’t abiding by our laws, that are not assimilating and learning our cultures and languages, and are sending tax free money back to their home country. Something needs to be done and now.

Is every illegal allien bad? Of course not. Unfotunately some of them are and it’s giving them all a bad name. Regardless, a tough stance has to be taken and proper immigration reform needs to happen. This should of been addressed years ago.

Mike D.

May 3rd, 2010
7:54 am

Bravo Mr. Barr for speaking the truth. Racial profiling has no place in our society. All of these so called “conservatives” that want to expand the power of the police and local governments have lost it. This law goes against all of our true values.

Byron Mathison Kerr

May 3rd, 2010
7:54 am

Bob is right. This is the responsibility of the federal government. Arizona has just, unknowingly, upped the priority for national immigration reform — and that is a good thing.

Phil

May 3rd, 2010
7:58 am

Well Mr. Barr, you’re “troubled” that a law has been passed that you feel may not be constitutional. Are you at all troubled that we already had laws that were being openly and blatently broken by tens of millions of illegals? Are you troubled that Phoenix is now the home invasion capital of the country? The media seems so concerned with the rights of the people breaking the laws, but the American citizens who are being victimized by the criminals seems not to count at all.

USMC DAWG

May 3rd, 2010
8:04 am

Georgia needs to enact the same law as Arizona with regard to ILLEGAL immigration and install employer panalties for hiring illegals. We are LOSING our country as we sit back on our high and mighty duffs pontificating on social experiement and human rights. Bring the troops home and put them on the border! Then start monitoring the EMPLOYERS who are hiring these illegals. Come on Bob, just because you are old and have made money don’t throw our country away for the younger generations.

Karl Marx

May 3rd, 2010
8:07 am

Yes it is troubling but the law is not as troubling and the inaction of the federal government to stop the flow of Illegal’s across the border. We should adopt how Mexico handles that problem. Then let Mexico scream about how we mistreat those criminals.

Ron Bowman

May 3rd, 2010
8:08 am

Barr needs to grow a backbone. That is the problem with the federal government these days. No one on Capitol Hill seems to have the fortitude to speak their minds. We have been too concerned with political correctness. While I agree that not all illegals are “bad” the fact remains that each person that is here illegally has knowingly broken the law. I have many friends form different countries that came here legally and each one that I have spoken with agrees that we should crack down on illegals and deport them all. I think that if enough states join Arizona and enact similar legislation it will force the hand of the federal government and then something would be done.

IN THE KNOW

May 3rd, 2010
8:10 am

Healthcare is troubling. The people of arizona have the right to root out these people who come here illegal and then feel free to break the laws and kidnap, bring drugs and murder. It is already a federal law to not come into this country illegally! Why does the federal gov not enforce what already is a law? 70 percent of all people in arizona favors this law. The key word here for people to understand is ILLEGAL NOT IMMIGRANTS! We don’t mind immigrants who sign the guest book and do it the right way, but if you come here the wrong way then you ARE BREAKING THE LAW!! This is not rocket science. Arizona leads the country in kidnapping cases. Gee, big surprise… sounds alot like MEXICO where kidnapping leads in the world and it’s a business for thugs and killers! This is the united states and this country should not tolerate this garbage any longer. Not just in arizona but in california,texas and even florida! They estimate that there are 460,000 illegal immigrants in arizona alone. I bet not a damn one of them pay taxes like the rest of us and that is b.s….Would you treat one of your kids better than the other? no…

TREAT EVERYONE THE SAME AND ENFORCE THE DAMN LAWS THAT ALREADY EXIST! They are required by law to carry papers already in arizona if they are immigrants who got in the right way, so what’s the big deal if they are required to show this document? It’s like most of us show our license when we are pulled over anyway? I don’t cry racist crap when i get pulled over…Can’t wait to hear some liberal idiot put a spin on this post. Nothing wrong with immigrants who come here, but i repeat….ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE BREAKING THE LAW!!! YOU BREAK THE LAW YOU SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE!! THAT’S SIMPLE PEOPLE. IS THAT TOO DIFFICULT FOR SOME OF YOU TO GRASP HERE?? EVEN LIBERALs COULD UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT SOMETIMES YOU CAN’T FIX STUPID!

Baltimore Phil

May 3rd, 2010
8:14 am

In principle, I agree with this law. Nothing wrong with AZ wanting to secure its borders and do the job its taxpayers pay the federal government to do but won’t. I agree with BB that some of the language is a bit vague, but being that an AZ cop can’t stop someone based on their race or nationality and needs probable cause and lawful contact to ask them for their papers (i.e. a traffic stop where someone doesn’t have a driver’s license) I highly doubt that AZ police officers are just going to start arresting brown people at will.
At least, I thought that until I read the comments by Redneck Convert (swell name, by the way, way to make Republicans look educated), Javier and Doug. Apparently, that’s what these folks WANT from this bill: dead bodies, unlimited rights for the police and a facist regime. Way to go, boys!

Jameser

May 3rd, 2010
8:18 am

I don’t often comment, but ended up here on the conservative pages and I must…
The Constitution guarantees against illegal search and seizure. Pulling someone over FOR NO OTHER REASON than that they are suspected of being illegal is in itself illegal. Following them in a car until they do something wrong so that you then have a reason is just as dirty. I agree that illegal immigration is a problem, but laws like this erode the values given us by god and the constitution.
I find it to be ironic that the same conservatives who are supporting this law are the same people who’s fathers raped and pillaged this beautiful land from the first inhabitants, the native americans. How might you have felt if Sitting Bull had asked your great grand father for his papers. As a solution we killed him. Perhaps now that the shoe is on the other foot, it will be okay for them to kill us and simply assert their will? Perhaps not…
“THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.”

Gator Joe

May 3rd, 2010
8:20 am

Bob:
While we probably disagree on most everything political, you are at least reasonable and consistent, in your approach to most issues, as is the case with this issue. Regarding the Arizona law, undoubtedly some of the undocumented immigrants are engaging in criminal activity, however, most are honest and hard working and contribute to, rather than take from, the community. This issue could be, and should have been, addressed in a humane and constitutionally legal manner by Congress. However, much of the opposition is based on (though rarely admitted) racism. If the undocumented immigrants were white and English speaking, no matter the number, it would be doubtful this action would have been taken. Other states will surely follow Arizona’s lead, and those laws will be just as unfair, and unconstitutional. We are a better country, and a better people, than this law and others like it, would indicate.

Tomas

May 3rd, 2010
8:21 am

I wish the feds would actually enforce the law. Instead we get democrats writing laws that sound good but intentionally undercut enforcement mechanisms so that there is no effective control of our borders. While it might be good politics for them, it’s bad policy.

America needs secure borders.

This should be the central conversation about immigration reform at both the federal and state level. Mark my words though, for the democrats, if the AZ law is overturned, they will be just fine with the status quo until they think they can get amnesty through the congress

Mr. Hand

May 3rd, 2010
8:25 am

Barr is right about this, of course. We sacrifice our values and “our” country is truly lost. But this is another example of why it’s past time for a CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. In this case to clarify the 14th Amendment’s citizenship provision which was intended for newly freed slaves not illegal immigrants.

Prof.

May 3rd, 2010
8:25 am

@ Tomas – pulease. enough of the “blame the democrat” crap.

Bush had 8 years to clean up this mess and DID NOTHING.

catlady

May 3rd, 2010
8:26 am

I would support amnesty for those who wish to immediately sign up for the armed forces. Ship their families home, let them serve for 4 years, then, upon leaving the armed forces with an honorable discharge, their wives/husbands and proven biological children can be put in line for legal immigration.

And change the law so that a child does not become a citizen of the US unless born to a parent legally here. Otherwise, you are condoning theft. US citizenship is a prize worth a great deal of money!

Byron Mathison Kerr

May 3rd, 2010
8:28 am

With all the problems facing our state — and legislators obsessed with implanted microchips and the ownership of road kill — I hope Georgia won’t waste valuable time and resources on a copycat immigration law until, at least, Arizona’s new law has a chance to face the scrutiny of the judiciary.

No More Progressives!

May 3rd, 2010
8:29 am

LibraryJim

May 3rd, 2010
7:13 am
When the Federal Government WILL NOT act to secure our borders, the individual states MUST ACT to secure their borders. Arizona is doing this, and I hope other states follow their lead.

Spot on. We don’t have an immigration issue here. We have a full-fledged invasion from another country, ordained by the Donkey’s in Congress. The hope is for instant Democrats that vote, and perpetual control of Congress. At our expense.

Jameser

May 3rd, 2010
8:33 am

Totally agree with you Gator Joe. Very reasonable and logical response. There is no doubt a problem with illegal immigration. This is also undoubtedly law that is already established – it is illegal to enter the country on a whim. My big problem with the law is how radicals jump on the bandwagon and want us to round up everyone at the protest rally’s (because everyone there MUST be an illegal) or follow them around until they don’t signal a lane change or whatever other wacky Brown Shirt technique they can come up with and then ship them off. We are a nation of laws, decided through rational, intelligent debate. Laws given us by god and written by men who take the time to understand the complexity of the issue before they build sniper towers to gun down other humans.
I don’t care how red your neck is, how blue or white your collar is or anything like that. Think before you rant.

Ivory

May 3rd, 2010
8:37 am

Long overdue, Touché, Arizona!

Ernesto

May 3rd, 2010
8:41 am

Even with the changes made on the Arizona new law, SB1070, it still can lead to racial profile. I liked the question made by Jeff in ATL:

“If not by race, then how is an officer to reasonably suspect someone may not be in the country illegally?”

That is the million dollar question. I would also remind every single one of you that illegal immigrants do not just come from Mexico and South America. Even when illegal immigrants mostly come from Mexico and South America, they also come from Canada, Europe, Asia, Africa, and many other parts of the world. It is such a hypocrisy that an undocumented immigrant from South African (white skin with blue eyes) who is pulled over is treated nice and let go. While an undocumented immigrant from Mexico or South America (Brown skin) who’s pulled over is questioned his/her legal status right away and later arrested.

While many will deny this, this laws do racial profile immigrants. The problem comes when a US citizen gets racial profiled as well. Most Ameicans want immigration enforced even if Constitutional Rights are violated, as long as Americans (not brown) are not directly affected.

Red State Fan

May 3rd, 2010
8:48 am

Heck, why don’t we do what the federal government did during World War II! They can set up concentration camps throughout the country and check everyone’s ID papers! Better yet, round up everyone you suspect is illegal and deport them immediately. That would open up a great deal of jobs in Georgia – carpet mills in North Georgia, and chicken farms, too. How many of you would like to pluck chickens or work in the toxic mills? How about cleaning fish in Brunswick or work as a roofer in the hot July sun in Georgia? Yes, all those folks out of work want these jobs back that the illegals are doing….

Reality

May 3rd, 2010
8:48 am

Mr. Barr! Wow! I am so pleased and shocked! You have hit the nail on the head with the hypocrasy of the republican right that I have been saying for years….

However, I fear that those ditto-heads will not listen to you.

For those WANTING less government, how can you support this law, a law prohibiting gay marrage, a law interfereing with abortion, and so on? All of those ADD to the power of government.

It seems that right wing doesn’t really mean less government. It simply means to “think how I think” and to support “government that promotes how I think.”

Dan

May 3rd, 2010
8:50 am

Easy for you to say, you, like most all other politicians, do not see the problems that face this country in real life. You see it as a game that the rich and sheltered play. This is not a game. This is real life. There are people involved. Where is McCain in all of this? Easy fix to the problem…secure the border, set harsh penalties for those trying to cross the border illegally, issure 3 year visas for those already here as long as they are crime free and working. Done. The federal government is not doing thier job. Not surprised really, how can they, they are too busy lining their own pockets and trying to decide how much each of is entitlted to. NOT their job. Secure the border…that IS their job. Do your job or we will do it for you… I don’t think AZ residents should have to pay federal income taxes…they are getting NOTHING

Richard

May 3rd, 2010
8:50 am

As written, the Arizona law does not allow profiling and does not allow a police officer to question someone’s status as a resident of this country unless there has already been a legal reason to detain that person. By now we should all be quite used to showing identification under many circumstances related and unrelated to law enforcement. This county is occupied by citizens, legal immigrants en route to full citizenship, and those here on temporary visa. A comprehensive immigration policy that allows for the presence of temporary workers would no doubt legitimize many of our “illegal” residents. Nevertheless, in the interest of national security and in order to properly manage our own society we need secure borders, and we must have knowledge of and control over who is here in this country. The time for national identity cards that describe residency status is overdue. Thank you, Arizona, for taking on even a small fraction of what the federal government has failed to do.

Bill

May 3rd, 2010
8:51 am

Phil’s comment is right on the money when he wonders if Bob Barr is troubled that we already have a law that is openly and blatantly being broken by TENS OF MILLIONS of illegals and the fact that Phoenix is the home invasion capital of the country.

As George Will stated in a recent column, since 1952, federal law has said: “Every alien, 18 years of age and over, shall at all times carry with him and have in his personal possession any certificate of alien registration or alien registration receipt card issued to him.”

Mr. Obama, the so-called constitutional scholar, apparently is not aware that this FEDERAL law exists, for if he did he would enforce it, which he does not.
Instead, we get from him such inane and irresponsible blather as this: “Now suddenly if you don’t have your papers and you took your kid out to get ice cream, you’re going to be harassed.” This obvious attempt to play on people’s emotions is exactly what I would expect from the liberal-in-chief, who’s party is particularly adept at demagoguery but not really that comfortable with reality.

Similarly, Mr. Barr seems so much more concerned with protecting the rights of the illegals than he does in allowing Arizona to solve the problem which Obama and his minions ignore.

jconservative

May 3rd, 2010
8:57 am

Number one, the Arizona legislature acted Friday to take out the most “offensive” parts of the original bill. Now waiting on the Governor to sign. Will she?

Number two, getting a bill through congress will be difficult. The Democrats see votes in pandering to the Latino vote. The Republicans fear losing the financial support of the American business community as the Latino workforce is their never ending pool of cheap labor. Bottom line, no immigration control bill.

Number three, the costs of securing the Mexican border will be in the hundreds of billions. Bottom line, no immigration control bill out of Congress.

Number four, the only way to control illegals crossing the border is to eliminate the ability to get jobs. The only way to do that is to lock up in jail any employer who hires an illegal. But that will not happen because employers are the ones who finance the political campaigns of politicians. And employers are the ones who hire the great majority of lobbyists who assist YOU, the American voter, in forming your political opinions. Bottom line, no immigration control bill.

Sorry to be so gloomy but it is a gloomy day.

Thomas

May 3rd, 2010
9:00 am

Wow, a lot of you guys are really missing the point. I don’t know what “facts” you guys are pulling from, but Mr. Barr and I are looking at the language of the bill itself. Oh, and that there Constitution.

If Arizona wants to protect its citizens, then go after the people that are actually causing problems. Not every illegal is in a gang or drug cartel. Get a clue.

Dan

May 3rd, 2010
9:02 am

Any outrage at this law is fabricated nonsense, the people complaining about it aren’t even quoting it correctly. It simply codefies that which a competent officer does all the time. On any traffic stop or interaction with any citizen the officer should be seek to detect and be aware of any other potential crimes or infractions that may be apparent. This simply confirms that to do otherwise simply projects that you have nothing to fear from being here illegally.

Gary

May 3rd, 2010
9:02 am

I have seen many who have asked how this can be enforced without profiling and the answer is simple. Everyone has to carry some form of ID if they operate a motor vehicle or work at a job. If an officer pulls you over and you fail to provide proper identification, then you most likely get arrested. At this time, the arresting officer has to validate your identification for arrest purposes. If you come back identified as an illegal, then you get deported. No profiling is used here because this happens even if you are white or black and don’t carry ID. If you have proper ID – drivers license, green card, etc….then you go to court for the infraction, pay a fine, and then released.

Also, this law is nothing more than Arizona saying they support the current federal law on the books and will enforce it. Nothing unconstitutional about it at all.

R PAGE

May 3rd, 2010
9:03 am

What the H— do you not understand about obeying the law?? Get away from your computer-be a real “reporter” go visit the border.

Marie

May 3rd, 2010
9:07 am

Illegal immigration is not the problem, it is the symptom. The problem is hiring of people who are not in this country legally, renting and selling housing and automobiles to people who are not in this country legally. Use the laws already in place. Go to construction companies, packing plants, restaurants, even the GA DOT work sites and conduct I9 audits, make them prove that they checked the status of their workers. Conduct Sit down audits with each worker and match documents to faces and fingerprints. It would take 5 minutes a person. Fine people who hire illegal immigrants. Fine them heftily, by the worker and by the day. Require landlords to provide proof that the are renting to legal immigrants. Close dealerships that sell vehicles to people who cannot prove they are in this country legally. And we have to take responsibility too on a personal level. Everytime we allow our contractors to work on our yards, our houses, maid services, any services where we want cheap labor and decide to “hire a Mexican” WE are providing the incentive for the illegal person to stay here. Refuse them work, refuse them housing, refuse them services (that includes hospital care and schooling), change the laws so that you must be born to parents legally in this country to be a citizen and you remove the attactiveness of coming here. Give visas for necessary farm labor and that is it. Homeless, unemployed people will move on. Solve the hiring issue and you solve the immigration issue. And if that doesn’t work, take a hard stance. The National Guard should be home guarding the nation. Put them on border patrol with orders to shoot. Let other countries know that we consider a breach of our borders an act of agression, a serious breach of our national security and our troops will shoot all crossers on sight. Take away the incentive, the issue will go away.

THE LAW

May 3rd, 2010
9:08 am

I read Federal Law yesterday about aiding, hiring, transporting of illegal aliens. IT IS A FELONY! So since it it a felony to give them a job, what are they supposed to do for a living one they get here? Go on welfare and food stamps? Many of them are good people just needing work. But we don’t have enough jobs for American taxpayers. Especially since American corporations keep sending them (jobs) overseas. Protect ourselves. Send the illegals back home.

jconservative

May 3rd, 2010
9:10 am

Bob, you are again referring to the 10th Amendment:

“Amendment 10
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor
prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

But I never see you refer to the 9th Amendment, which as a small government conservative, I find much more appealing than the 10th Amendment.

“Amendment 9
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”

Just saying.

Silverchief

May 3rd, 2010
9:11 am

Well Bob, Now you know why you are no longer in congress…..

Ralph Emerson

May 3rd, 2010
9:13 am

“There are any number of federal laws and responsibilities that do not receive the attention many citizens and state governments believe they should…”

This is the 3rd or 4th time recently I’ve seen a Conservative politician/journalist complain that the federal government has not/is not taking care of some responsibility that constitutionally or morally belongs within its purview. At the same time, every one in this wide country is aware these same people represent a huge movement within it that wants lower taxes and therefore a smaller, less potent government.

You’re probably expecting me to follow that up with some statement about hypocrisy and multiple personalities. But I’m not. I understand as I will show below.

I am going to introduce a novel insight into an idea that has been under our noses for thousands of years but has seldom been fully appreciated or understood, especially by Americans.

Probably since before recorded history, if a group of human beings were thrown together for any given purpose or enterprise, and provided with the resources to accomplish that purpose, a certain proportion or fraction of those people would either malinger in their duties, squander the available resources, or outright steal them.

The magnitude of the proportion might vary from locale to locale and over time, but as far as I can determine, corruption is universally a fact of life. I would wager that even in the Vatican you could find some sand baggers, or maybe I should have said “Especially.”

As I said above, I understand the conservative theory. It states that if this corruption were reined in, then the federal government could do its assigned tasks with fewer of our tax dollars. All we need to do is enforce the laws we now have on the books, institute term limits, every now and then hire a special prosecutor, etc., etc.

The first part of novelty here is that, even though we periodically are willing to devote taxpayer funded resources to root out corruption, corruption will always return. Oh, we may succeed for a couple of years or so, but eventually corruption will return.

The second part of the novelty is that many countries have come to terms with this phenomenon. They have recognized that the human animal is capable of only so much order, compliance, and effort on behalf of the common good. The rest gets devoted to corruption and waste. Jesus was surely a fool to have expected us humans to take care of each other, completely ignoring our own greed and self interest, but that’s a subject for another day.

Conservatives only partially understand the paradox that has been forced upon us by modernity and a burgeoning human population. Under present conditions, a certain amount of government is simply indispensable if we are to sustain current standards of living for very long–right or wrong. Again, a subject for another day.

So, Bob. If you want the feds to take care of such constitutional responsibilities as securing our borders, you cannot avoid it. You and your devoted readers are going to have to pay enough taxes, kicking and screaming, to cover the corruption and have enough left over to accomplish those things that we all know must get done.

And if you want fewer people to come into this country from Latin America, write a bunch of articles opposing the Catholic Church’s stand on birth control and promoting Planned Parenthood.

nelsonhoward

May 3rd, 2010
9:13 am

The Supreme Court sharply limits the 1st Amendment rights of illegal immigrants, that people here unlawfully cannot shield themselves from deportation simply because of their political views. The Court’s holding bars anyone who is subject to a deportation hearing from trying to defend himself by saying he was singled out because of political beliefs or activities that any legal resident would be free to express.

That is straight forward to me, that illegal immigrants can be deported and not requiring to hear the illegal immigrants reasons for staying here.

Morrus

May 3rd, 2010
9:14 am

Vote out the incumbents and start over

retiredds

May 3rd, 2010
9:15 am

Bob, I hope you sent a personalized copy of this well written piece to Nathan Deal and Tom Price, not that they care a hoot about the Constitution when it comes to their agendas. The far right is driving the Republicans these days, with few exceptions. The Gov. of Arizona had no choice but to do this to save her political skin. Look at what is happening to John McCain and Senator Grassley. These moderates have had to go far right or be pilloried. To get a reasonable and bi-partisan immigration bill passed is almost an impossibility in the current toxic political climate, so we are left with stupid and unconstitutional state fragmentation. This is what happens when adults regress to adolescent bickering because they can’t manage their emotions of the moment.

Thom Bing

May 3rd, 2010
9:15 am

Affirmative action is racial profiling and its ok

Jim

May 3rd, 2010
9:16 am

To all the idiots here who keep talking about the liberals and democrats – Just who do you think is hiring all of these illegals to work here? Small business people, most of whom are conservative repubs. It is just that they can save some money by hiring these people and make a larger profit. Do you really think people are in some cases dying to get into this country for nothing? You want to stop the problem, stop the business types who pay them and create the market. Wise up people and at least blame the right people for this mess.

Immigration is not illigal aliens

May 3rd, 2010
9:17 am

Heres the problem; illegals are 25 million in strength. Our country is America and although we have immigration, it must be controlled as well as our boarders. They are telling us that terriorists are now here and have been for years and whos fault is that? Its the American governments fault.

The original taxes taken from Americans were to be for roads, military and yes Boarder Security. Americans count on our boarders and our people to be safe and if the Government wont do it, I applaude the states who are taking over. This is a big problem. Americans should always come first in the country but we pay the price and are put last. Illegal is illegal and one who comes to this country by breaking the very first law of crossing over does not deserve the American Dream. Oh course lets not be joyous here. The American Dream is dying the death and its also the governments fault.

I really do hope that other states come onboard. And for those illegals who gather in our hospitals, schools, and take the jobs that (caugh caugh) americans dont want to do, I say this. There are many many americans who will work those jobs and these employers know it. They simply dont want to pay a livable wage and that sirs should also be illegal. Illegals should never EVER come before Americans and if our states must enforse this law then be it. I only hope Georgia comes on board fast. We need all the help we can get.

zeke

May 3rd, 2010
9:22 am

I don’t care if it takes the Army, Marines, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, National Guard and the Reserves, ARREST ALL THE ILLEGALS, THEIR CHILDREN TOO, AND, DEPORT THEM IMMEDIATELY! NO HEARINGS ARE NEEDED, THEY ARE ILLEGAL AND THEREFORE CRIMINAL! The pansy socialist in the fed’l government will not do their Constitutional duty as required by law, therefore each individual state must act to secure it’s own borders! Three cheers for Arizona!

Boys be girly boys.

May 3rd, 2010
9:22 am

I don’t see too many folks on your side Bobby. Look at it this way. If Georgia bordered Mexico like Arizona does, I’d say you might have a different taste in your mouth. Those folks are fed up and rightfully so. Crime and erosion of resources are out of hand there and have to be checked. It’s too bad that the feds have failed to step up and enforce their laws and it’s placed Arizona in this situation. I don’t necessarily think it’s something they wanted or enjoyed implementing but they just can’t stick their head in the sand and do nothing while things crumble around them. They are being over run Bobby. By the way, this article don’t sound much like you. Is somebody filling for you this week?

RealDawg

May 3rd, 2010
9:27 am

Agree in theory but not in practice. That was a great opening statement to a debate that would likely fall to one practical argument after another. In the other cases were the feds aren’t upholding their duties, there is not such a driven political “agenda’. Everybody recognizes more brown people equates to more votes for the democrats. Our immigation enforcement is softer than the majority of the free world. This is not because we are “nice”. It is because we have used their drugs, labor, and votes to drive our economy. Arizona shouldn’t have to attempt to over step its authority.

If we would have started controlling our borders years ago, the health cost ‘crisis” wouldn’t have been nearly as severe. Step into any large emergency room and you quickly see one major issue. Step into any large detention center and you will quickly see a second. Facts not prejudice. We can’t keep letting people illegally pour across the borders and then protest for their rights.

People scream racisim and prejudice left and right and yet we are the most diverse country in the world? Illegal is illegal. If you didn’t follow the legal process to get here, then your only right should be that of a free trip back to the gate. I do agree that the definition of “lawful” contact must be more clearly defined to protect legal citizens. My understanding of lawful is “allowed by the law”. Currently, the law doesn’t allow local enforcement to request i.d. unless associated with some suspected unlawful act with basis.

Jim

May 3rd, 2010
9:28 am

Another painful lesson people – None other than George F.Will, a noted conservative said yesterday – to remove all illegal aliens would take a caravan of buses that is 1700 miles long and you would need a couple hundred thousand buses. So, arresting and removing is not even close to a realistic goal. Might make you feel better to say it but realize how it ain’t gonna happen. Tighten the borders and come up with an amnesty program. We need real solutions for real problems, not chest thumping and tough guy talk that is meaningless in the real world. Sorry to all the John Waynes everywhere but it don’t work that way.

EJ

May 3rd, 2010
9:30 am

So along this entire process we hold no one accountable to verify that people are lawfully allowed to get a driver’s license, get their kids in school, or get jobs.

Then, the problem becomes so bad that thousands and thousands more come across the border to join in the American way of life because there is nothing that seems to be stopping them.

And the Federal Gov response? We must have immigration reform in addition to closing the border. Why are these two tied together. Can we not shut our borders? Is that not the Constitutional duty of the Federal Government?

I am asked for verifications every day, as are most of you. To say that it is unfair to do so of those here illegally is a farce.

So the state takes action, and everyone is more concerned about the illegal immigrants than they are the legal citizens. Frankly, the citizens should and must come first. Otherwise, what’s the point of any of it?

Dave M

May 3rd, 2010
9:36 am

The problem with advice from Great White Father is many of these old farts in Washington are married to, (or dating), some hot young thing from Central or South America way below their age group. Look for this behind the actions of any elected US official.

No More Progressives!

May 3rd, 2010
9:40 am

Ernesto

May 3rd, 2010
8:41 am
“If not by race, then how is an officer to reasonably suspect someone may not be in the country illegally?”

Simple. Ask every single living soul on the street for identification. You can’t dsicriminate if you ask everybody.

Dan

May 3rd, 2010
9:42 am

The outrage over profiling itself is obtuse. Profiling is police tactics 101, the politically correct nonsense ties their hands. Police are trained to look for trends and tendencies, good street cops can identify with a high level of certainty dealers, prosts etc based on looking at them and where they are. It is an ongoing game of which of these things is not like the other.

Aquagirl

May 3rd, 2010
9:46 am

Bob has decided illegal immigrants need Constitutional protection. However, Air Force Academy Cadets exercising freedom of worship do not. Muslim-bashing Franklin Graham’s government-approved prayers similarly escape Bob’s concerns. Gays and lesbians are SOL too.

Can I please have my 2008 Presidential vote back from this fake-@$$ libertarian?

chris

May 3rd, 2010
9:46 am

Racial Profiling is just a term the opposition uses to explain away why it shouldn’t come to being. but the bigger agreement like taking over our country is the real reason for this bill. we need a nationwide bill. it seriously disappoints me that Obama didn’t have the Brass to do what Jan Brewer did. God Bless Jan Brewer for her courage.

ATLPRINCE

May 3rd, 2010
9:52 am

Yet another PROBLEM that OBAMA is going to have to step in and be the voice of reason for. Another mess we have to clean up because you conservatives are only thinking about yourselves again. The arguments and comments that you are making right now only remind people of how BLACKS in America were treated and how JEWS in Germany were treated. You just don’t get it!

BUSH had 8 years to deal with this and did absolutely nothing. Shame on him and the fat elephants, and he lives in a border state, go figure! Just admit he was pretty dumb.

OK, for the people of AZ, I understand your pain and I am hopeful that the OBAMA administration will step in and help solve this with some FEDERAL LEGISTLATION that directly addresses this problem. Round em up, is not the solution because it leaves too much power in the police officers hands. Make no mistake, this IS a tough issue. But you can’t profile people and or detain folks because of the color of their skin. History need not repeat itself and we should not keep making the same mistakes.

Most of these folks are doing the manual labor jobs like picking crops, construction work, landscaping, etc., that not many of you bloggers would do. So let the Feds secure the borders, create a legal way for these folks to work here and be accounted for, and deport those who can not produce the proper GREEN CARDS if you have a normal reason to inquire.

PULLING PEOPLE OVER CAUSE THEY LOOK HISPANIC IS PROFILING AND BLATANT RACISM! IT SHOULD AND WILL NOT BE TOLERATED BY WE THE PEOPLE! THIS LAW IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL, PERIOD!

Adam

May 3rd, 2010
9:54 am

Bob Barr is absolutely right. Say one looks Hispanic and is arrested for something minor (jay walking). And one forgot one’s wallet. This law gets one arrested for something that would otherwise be a ticket FOR NOT CARRYING ID PAPERS!

If you are for this law, you should be for a national ID card. Think about it.

chris

May 3rd, 2010
9:54 am

ATLPRINCE were thinking about our nation. its your Mexican family jumping the border giving no regard for our laws who think of only themselves you hypocrite. get outa here.

JB

May 3rd, 2010
9:55 am

go to newsmax.com this morning and READ MEXICO’S IMMIGRATION LAWS. I say we just adopt
theirs and enforce them here….That should solve the whole problem. Fair is fair. No democratic country puts up with this……Pretty violent protest also this week-end, and the main stream press …….crickets…………….these are just poor oppressed ” future democratic” voters i guess…..

chris

May 3rd, 2010
9:57 am

i approve of this new law 100000% i hope it spreads across the nation like wildfire. and for you Mexicans to be upset about our laws is stupid. Mexico has the same Laws only stricter. Mexicans are dirty hypocrites.

DK

May 3rd, 2010
9:57 am

I agree with the sentiment that “tough times call for tough measures”. Lately, I’ve seen a bunch of gun toting nuts congregating in various public venues called tea parties, espousing treasonous ideas such as secession and the overthrow of the U.S. Government. In these tough times where we’re under constant terrorist threat, we need to ignore the constitution and raid the homes of these potential homegrown terrorist, bug their phones and e-mail accounts, and seize their computers in an attempt to uncover any terrorist acts that might be in the works.

No real American patriot would ever suggest that we ignore the constitution because they understand that the constitution is the foundation of our country, and when we start suggesting that it does not work, we are backhandedly suggesting that our American experiment doesn’t work and ridding ourselves of these illegals are not worth that.

Kraqakilla

May 3rd, 2010
9:59 am

whites are ignorant thats why obama got elected so much racism led to hispanics voting for obama and blacks as well its a reality you whites are the new minority its time for you all to go back to england or australia or wherever you from immigrants and hispanics will always be in the usa so why try to fight it LOL we will never leave or die keyword NEVER let me give you that one mo g’ain NEVER so you probably wondered why McCain didnt get elected Pfft it’s common sense everyone that was voting for him were hillbillies and everyone voting for obama were the so called “minorities” which are now majorities blacks and hispanics united means you whites are minorities no matter how many cousins you have kids with you are still going to be minorities Kay thankx bye

MarkV

May 3rd, 2010
10:00 am

Bob is absolutely right. Those defending profiling here do it only because they feel they are immune to it. They would turn 180 degrees the moment they would feel its effect.
Writing something like: chris: “it seriously disappoints me that Obama didn’t have the Brass to do what Jan Brewer did” shows only a total lack of rational thinking.

[...] Arizona’s immigration law is constitutionally troubling [...]

scrappy

May 3rd, 2010
10:02 am

“Simple. Ask every single living soul on the street for identification. You can’t discriminate if you ask everybody.”

This is the problem. This is what most people are afraid of, at least I am. I do not want this country turned into a society afraid of and intimidated by the police. This is the first step on a slippery slope.

joe

May 3rd, 2010
10:03 am

Bob, when wild animals are having their way in my garden, they leave behind signs of their activity such as tracks, displaced plants, etc. When I go to investigate, I see the destruction, so I act accordingly to eliminate the problem. The way I handle this problem is I set a trap and wait. The next day I see a neighborhood cat in my trap. Upon seeing him in there, I set him free because I know he is not the culprit, because I have identified him (in the trap) and know he is legal to be in my neighborhood. I reset the trap and wait.

The next day, I catch a skunk in the trap. I know he is the animal making problems in my garden. I decide to take the trap way out in the country and release him to his native land. I don’t harm him or kill him or abuse him in any way…I just release him back to his native land.

Now to me, this seems the best way to treat illegal immigration problems. Set the trap (asking for paperwork, drivers license, etc) and act accordingly (deport them back to their country of origin). This is in a nutshell what the law is anyway, its just not enforced, so let AZ act as needed to correct the problem.

Kraqakilla

May 3rd, 2010
10:04 am

whites are ignorant thats why obama got elected so much racism led to hispanics voting for obama and blacks as well its a reality you whites are the new minority its time for you all to go back to england or australia or wherever you from immigrants and hispanics will always be in the usa so why try to fight it LOL we will never leave or die keyword NEVER let me give you that one mo g’ain NEVER so you probably wondered why McCain didnt get elected Pfft it’s common sense everyone that was voting for him were hillbillies and everyone voting for obama were the so called “minorities” which are now majorities blacks and hispanics united means you whites are minorities no matter how many cousins you have kids with you are still going to be minorities Kay thankx bye

Kraqakilla

May 3rd, 2010
10:05 am

Enter your comments herewhites are ignorant thats why obama got elected so much racism led to hispanics voting for obama and blacks as well its a reality you whites are the new minority its time for you all to go back to england or australia or wherever you from immigrants and hispanics will always be in the usa so why try to fight it LOL we will never leave or die keyword NEVER let me give you that one mo g’ain NEVER so you probably wondered why McCain didnt get elected Pfft it’s common sense everyone that was voting for him were hillbillies and everyone voting for obama were the so called “minorities” which are now majorities blacks and hispanics united means you whites are minorities no matter how many cousins you have kids with you are still going to be minorities Kay thankx bye..

Kraqakilla

May 3rd, 2010
10:05 am

Enter your comments herwhites are ignorant thats why obama got elected so much racism led to hispanics voting for obama and blacks as well its a reality you whites are the new minority its time for you all to go back to england or australia or wherever you from immigrants and hispanics will always be in the usa so why try to fight it LOL we will never leave or die keyword NEVER let me give you that one mo g’ain NEVER so you probably wondered why McCain didnt get elected Pfft it’s common sense everyone that was voting for him were hillbillies and everyone voting for obama were the so called “minorities” which are now majorities blacks and hispanics united means you whites are minorities no matter how many cousins you have kids with you are still going to be minorities Kay thankx bye…

Kraqakilla

May 3rd, 2010
10:06 am

whites are ignorant thats why obama got elected so much racism led to hispanics voting for obama and blacks as well its a reality you whites are the new minority its time for you all to go back to england or australia or wherever you from immigrants and hispanics will always be in the usa so why try to fight it LOL we will never leave or die keyword NEVER let me give you that one mo g’ain NEVER so you probably wondered why McCain didnt get elected Pfft it’s common sense everyone that was voting for him were hillbillies and everyone voting for obama were the so called “minorities” which are now majorities blacks and hispanics united means you whites are minorities no matter how many cousins you have kids with you are still going to be minorities Kay thankx bye….

Kraqakilla

May 3rd, 2010
10:06 am

whites are ignorant thats why obama got elected so much racism led to hispanics voting for obama and blacks as well its a reality you whites are the new minority its time for you all to go back to england or australia or wherever you from immigrants and hispanics will always be in the usa so why try to fight it LOL we will never leave or die keyword NEVER let me give you that one mo g’ain NEVER so you probably wondered why McCain didnt get elected Pfft it’s common sense everyone that was voting for him were hillbillies and everyone voting for obama were the so called “minorities” which are now majorities blacks and hispanics united means you whites are minorities no matter how many cousins you have kids with you are still going to be minorities Kay thankx bye……

Kraqakilla

May 3rd, 2010
10:06 am

whites are ignorant thats why obama got elected so much racism led to hispanics voting for obama and blacks as well its a reality you whites are the new minority its time for you all to go back to england or australia or wherever you from immigrants and hispanics will always be in the usa so why try to fight it LOL we will never leave or die keyword NEVER let me give you that one mo g’ain NEVER so you probably wondered why McCain didnt get elected Pfft it’s common sense everyone that was voting for him were hillbillies and everyone voting for obama were the so called “minorities” which are now majorities blacks and hispanics united means you whites are minorities no matter how many cousins you have kids with you are still going to be minorities Kay thankx bye………

Kraqakilla

May 3rd, 2010
10:06 am

whites are ignorant thats why obama got elected so much racism led to hispanics voting for obama and blacks as well its a reality you whites are the new minority its time for you all to go back to england or australia or wherever you from immigrants and hispanics will always be in the usa so why try to fight it LOL we will never leave or die keyword NEVER let me give you that one mo g’ain NEVER so you probably wondered why McCain didnt get elected Pfft it’s common sense everyone that was voting for him were hillbillies and everyone voting for obama were the so called “minorities” which are now majorities blacks and hispanics united means you whites are minorities no matter how many cousins you have kids with you are still going to be minorities Kay thankx bye……………

Kraqakilla

May 3rd, 2010
10:07 am

whites are ignorant thats why obama got elected so much racism led to hispanics voting for obama and blacks as well its a reality you whites are the new minority its time for you all to go back to england or australia or wherever you from immigrants and hispanics will always be in the usa so why try to fight it LOL we will never leave or die keyword NEVER let me give you that one mo g’ain NEVER so you probably wondered why McCain didnt get elected Pfft it’s common sense everyone that was voting for him were hillbillies and everyone voting for obama were the so called “minorities” which are now majorities blacks and hispanics united means you whites are minorities no matter how many cousins you have kids with you are still going to be minorities Kay thankx bye…………………..

j0hn

May 3rd, 2010
10:07 am

If we were to lower or eliminate income taxes for citizens and then significantly raise sales taxes for everyone, we could essentially tax most of the illegals home, as many have been living here for years, paying virtually no taxes, and a sudden increase would be problematic for many of them. The ones that could afford the new [consumption] taxes would more or less be able to stay, and at that point, it wouldn’t much matter if they were legit citizens or not, so long as they paid the same taxes as everyone else. Further, having a large population of non-citizens paying the same taxes that citizens do, but being prohibited from qualifying for health-care and other nonsense social programs (SS, medicaid, medicare, et cetera) would mean we would actually make money off of illegals being here… they would pay into the system the same as a citizen, but draw far fewer benefits from said system. Why waste blood and treasure militarizing the border when we can use economic sanctions to actually profit off of illegals? Economic sanctions would not only be more effective and more fiscally responsible, but such would also be entirely Constitutional and better for PR as well.

Kraqakilla

May 3rd, 2010
10:08 am

whites are ignorant thats why obama got elected so much racism led to hispanics voting for obama and blacks as well its a reality you whites are the new minority its time for you all to go back to england or australia or wherever you from immigrants and hispanics will always be in the usa so why try to fight it LOL we will never leave or die keyword NEVER let me give you that one mo g’ain NEVER so you probably wondered why McCain didnt get elected Pfft it’s common sense everyone that was voting for him were hillbillies and everyone voting for obama were the so called “minorities” which are now majorities blacks and hispanics united means you whites are minorities no matter how many cousins you have kids with you are still going to be minorities Kay thankx bye,.,.,.

JB

May 3rd, 2010
10:09 am

DK……..No real American Should ignore the Constitution?????How about starting in the white house.

Chris Broe

May 3rd, 2010
10:11 am

The whole issue is troubling.

[...] Barr has a piece this morning in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution about the persistent Constitutional problems with Arizona’s new immigration law: Arizona’s new immigration enforcement law, just days old, already is sparking challenges and [...]

Willibekind

May 3rd, 2010
10:14 am

Kraqakilla

May 3rd, 2010
10:05 am
Well, you got stuck on the submit button did you not? I am ashamed the submit button was not in 12 different languages so you could become more efficient. As far as the whites go, you do see everyone trying to have what the whites have. I mean the government has made laws to distribute what ever the whites have so others could have more. You know like wealth and property! I too wish we all could be white but that was not the Divine plan. Instead we have to love each other for what we are. I am so ashamed of being white. It is a hard burden to bare.

No More Progressives!

May 3rd, 2010
10:15 am

scrappy

May 3rd, 2010
10:02 am
“Simple. Ask every single living soul on the street for identification. You can’t discriminate if you ask everybody.”

This is the problem. This is what most people are afraid of, at least I am. I do not want this country turned into a society afraid of and intimidated by the police. This is the first step on a slippery slope.

I agree, and I really don’t want to see it come to that. But Arizona is on the verge of marshall law in the face of the onslaught. Someone somewhere has to take action, and if “showing my ID” is part of the cure, I’m first in line.

In every medicine there’s a little poison.

LibraryJim

May 3rd, 2010
10:18 am

For those who cite the failure of W. Bush to act on this, so did Clinton and Bush 41. Reagan did act, but in granting limited amnesty opened the door wider to other illegals who are hoping the Fed. Gov will do so again. Carter did nothing, Ford did nothing, Nixon did nothing, etc. The only President who effectively controlled the border was Ike.

Chelsea

May 3rd, 2010
10:19 am

Let’s call the law what is really is…complete and utter racism. Let’s call the people who support it what they really are…complete and utter racists. Last I checked Mexicans weren’t the only people who are in the US illegally, yet they are the only ones that this law targets. What this law really represents is a hatred of Mexican culture and a fear of the minority becoming the majority.

Danielle

May 3rd, 2010
10:20 am

Laws must exist for the betterment of all Americans. If there is a stench of unfairness to any group of Americans then if must be done away with. We cannot justify taking away the rights of several Americans to catch a few criminals. That is not what our country is about.

I hope more Conservatives speak out against this police state law.

I am an American who is also Hispanic. If asked for my papers I will show a copy of the U.S. Constitution.

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both -Benjamin Franklin

Kelly Wes Kirkconnell

May 3rd, 2010
10:22 am

A common denominator with illegal immigrants is that they start with not following policy. The art of circumventing rules and policy. It makes it OK to not follow laws, policy, rules, specifications and such. That makes more work for those that do follow policy.
It is not true that immigration needs to be reformed. Those calling for refomation do not know the policies. The only real “reform” they will want is to remove the policy that insures the new immigrant will not go on the dole.

mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the LIAR Obama, BEND OVER, here comes the CHANGE!

May 3rd, 2010
10:23 am

Chelsea you are off base, if anyone is here illegally they should be sent back home. Rasims my foot – ILLEAGUE IMMIGRANTS is what it’s about. And, Oh come on Bob. Let’s work on getting the ILLEAGUES OUT of the US, and stop pandering for votes.

Reality

May 3rd, 2010
10:24 am

You guys miss the major THESIS of Bob’s blog…

The right wing republicans run on a platform of less government interference. Right?

However, this same group of individuals DEMAND government interference selectively – only when it suits their need. And, this Arizona law is just one example.

Bob’s point is that the right wing republicans are nothing more than MAJOR HYPOCRITS in politics. They say one things and yet do another.

They WANT less taxes and yet run up spending. They WANT less government and yet pass immigration laws.

MAKE UP YOUR MIND! Let your actions speak louder than your words!

mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the LIAR Obama, BEND OVER, here comes the CHANGE!

May 3rd, 2010
10:25 am

Danille, quoting Ben Franklin is quite a stretch – I doubt he was for Law Breaking ILLEAGULES coming to the US.

mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the LIAR Obama, BEND OVER, here comes the CHANGE!

May 3rd, 2010
10:26 am

Reality, you’re not. The DEMS are the budget busters PERIOD!

Willibekind

May 3rd, 2010
10:26 am

Chris Broe

May 3rd, 2010
10:11 am
What issue? Is it the issue the politicians will allow citizens and the law to be violated so they can keep their constituents. Is it the issue the federal government will take my money but refuse to protect me and mine. The federal government can stop businesses from hiring illegals. The federal government can stop illegal immigrants from crossing our borders at will. The federal government has relented on law enforcement. How many must die or not have a job because of law breakers? Is that the issue that is troubling? I honor the Arizona governor for the courage she has displayed for the citizens. For the love of it all I cannot condon placing illegal immigrants over the rights of the citizens. But we saw how terrorists rights stood over the rights of America to be safe. Yes, you are right these issues are troubling.

Willibekind

May 3rd, 2010
10:32 am

The last time this many Mexicans coming across the border resulted in the Alamo. Sam Houston responded it kind. Texas became a country then a state. I guess this is an invasion but a more progressive liberal type invasion.

steve1952

May 3rd, 2010
10:32 am

I for one like the new law and Gov. Jan Brewer. At least she has a pair… Unlike the Governors of Texas, New Mexico and California

Curious Observer

May 3rd, 2010
10:35 am

Forget about rounding up and deporting illegals. It is such a massive task that no entity could undertake it. Besides, the revolving door would merely turn again.

Tackle the problem at its source—employment. Why do illegals come here? Employment. Why do they stay here? Employment.

Enforce the existing law by targetting those who employ illegals, including homeowners who slip an illegal a twenty for a yard-mowing job. Make employing an illegal so horrendously expensive and consequential that no one will do it. Help enforce employment law by creating a national database of eligible workers. The problem will solve itself. Illegals, no longer able to obtain jobs, will return to their countries of origin. A bonus will be numerous job openings for legal workers and better enforcement of the minimum wage jobs.

And why hasn’t the U.S. cracked down already? The answer is obvious. Those who benefit from illegal labor are also among the most generous donors to political campaigns.

Danielle

May 3rd, 2010
10:38 am

mmmm, if you are going to post the word illegal repeatedly, please learn how to spell it..

And I do think the quote is appropriate. I am not an illegal. I am American and my constitutional rights shall not be dismissed just because there is an immigration problem. If the United States cannot fix the immigration problem without profiling certain ethnic groups, then illegal immigration is the least of our concerns.

Another issue, Hispanics make up a large number of Republican voters in Florida and Texas, especially. I wonder if this new ‘papers law’ will make them vote Left. I am glad our Governor, Rick Perry has already said this law would not be good for Texas.

scrappy

May 3rd, 2010
10:40 am

“I agree, and I really don’t want to see it come to that. But Arizona is on the verge of marshall law in the face of the onslaught. Someone somewhere has to take action, and if “showing my ID” is part of the cure, I’m first in line.

In every medicine there’s a little poison.”

This is why I said it is a slippery slope… First we say it is ok for the cops to ask for ID without probable cause. Then when that stops working, we agree that it is ok for cops to search houses looking for illegals without probable cause…. Then when that stops working we say it is ok to set up road/sidewalk blocks allowing cops to stop every person who comes by and check their status. Where does it end?

I also find it a little ironic that my above rationale is the same rationale used by the NRA when they defend the 2nd amendment. I personally don’t think hunters need full metal jacket automatics, but I do see their point about give a little, give a mile. Also guessing a lot of the same NRA folks are completely for this AZ law, not realizing the similarities.

Not Going To Use My Usual Name

May 3rd, 2010
10:41 am

1) Right-wing radio talk show hosts speak in wide extremes and false dichotomies, training their listeners to do the same. Thus we are met with “if you aren’t with us, you’re against us” talk, like “if you don’t support this law, you must be for illegal immigration.” Wrong. One can see it as the problem it is without finding this *method* of dealing with it to be anything but the first step to an apartheid-like fascism.

2) Prosecute–and FINE–the heck out of anyone who employs an illegal immigrant. Sure, if there’s an illegal immigrant who commits a violent crime (and most of them don’t, any more than most people don’t), then punish and deport. But put the heat on the ones who hire. It’s like prostitution: you get much better results when you embarrass/fine/prosecute the johns than you do when you prosecute the prostitutes. As a bonus, you’re hurting the exploiter more than the exploitee, which satisfies the moral queasiness of stepping on the already-downtrodden.

Martin C

May 3rd, 2010
10:42 am

I live in Phoenix, and the truth is that our current state Govt’ has done nothing to secure the border, Brewer has the option of sending in the National Guard, but has’nt done it, why? Pierce,Brewer and Arpio seem to think that you can secure the border from Maricopa Co, The only reason this bill was passed is purely for political gain, evidently it has nothing to do with securing the border.

George

May 3rd, 2010
10:48 am

If a not too tolerant Bob Barr is saying this law is unconstitutional, this law must be just that! I do not know whether folks who support this law are racist, but after reading Bob Barr’s piece, I am convinced that they want to resurrect the Former Soviet Union…they are a bunch of commie pinkos and dont even know about it! Arizona is a Red State..no doubt about it..communist Red..Arizona Soviet Socialist Republic (ASSR).

A.R. Torres Jr.

May 3rd, 2010
10:55 am

American sovereignty should not be taken for granted. All that I’m hearing about is that “illegals” and their advocates have been protesting vehemently, but what have the American citizens have to say about this too. I haven’t heard the citizens of this country speak out for themselves yet. I’d rather hear from them since they are of the majority and they know best what is good for their own COUNTRY better than advocates from foreign countries, i.e. Mexico, and other latin American countries. If the citizens of this nation held its rally to fight for their sovereignty, then I shall listen and weigh in my opinion with both sides of the spectrum. That’s the only way I know how to best deal with this new law.

George

May 3rd, 2010
10:59 am

“I now want to be a police officer. Maybe i will move to Arizona!!!!”

Even better why dont you pack up and move to China and North Korea. Your ideas will fit well there!

LibraryJim

May 3rd, 2010
11:10 am

George, spoken like a true liberal: “If you can’t argue with fact, blind them with insults!”

Pretty simple...

May 3rd, 2010
11:11 am

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

No More Progressives!

May 3rd, 2010
11:12 am

Chelsea

May 3rd, 2010
10:19 am
Let’s call the law what is really is…complete and utter racism.

Liberal spin 101. If you’re a card carrying fellow traveler, everything is racism, even though she can’t define the word.

Danielle

May 3rd, 2010
11:20 am

Interesting how when you disagree with your own party you are called ‘illegal’. Since when are the conservatives the party that name calls like children?

I suppose Marco Rubio, Connie Mack, Jeb Bush, Rick Perry are illegals as well.

Jefferson

May 3rd, 2010
11:22 am

Those folks in AZ are just making it hard on themselves.

No More Progressives!

May 3rd, 2010
11:33 am

scrappy

May 3rd, 2010
10:40 am
This is why I said it is a slippery slope…

Again, I’m in total agreement with you. It’s not the America I knew growing up. But I just cannot justify standing idly by while hoardes of “undocumented workers” run roughshod over our great Nation.

Ever been overseas? What happens every time you cross a border? “Show us you passport, please.”

Don

May 3rd, 2010
11:35 am

I think Bob has it exactly right. Let’s say you are attending a Tea Party and the local police have decided they don’t like it because they fear that the push to reduce taxes would reduce their ranks and pay. They may be totally wrong in this belief, but that really doesn’t matter. They can decide that YOU are in need of having your papers checked for being a possible illegal alien and haul YOU in to have your residency status checked. The one thing we can count on is that whatever power we give to the government, they will find a way to misuse and abuse it. Freedoms handed over are really hard to win back.

No More Progressives!

May 3rd, 2010
11:37 am

Danielle

May 3rd, 2010
11:20 am

I suppose Marco Rubio, Connie Mack, Jeb Bush, Rick Perry are illegals as well.

Did this post make any sense to anybody?

Pretty simple...

May 3rd, 2010
11:37 am

“Since when are the conservatives the party that name calls like children?”

mmm…I guess you never listen to Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck or Ann Coulter.

Danielle

May 3rd, 2010
11:40 am

No More Progressive, Oversees they don’t require their citizens to ’show me your papers’

Unless your thinking of communism.

Danielle

May 3rd, 2010
11:49 am

In Texas I am only required to have my driver’s license on me when I am driving. That actually makes a lot of sense.
I almost never drive, am usually a passenger, and rarely carry ID. What happens when my white husband is stopped for speeding. Do they look at my skin color and decide to ask for my papers?

scrappy

May 3rd, 2010
11:50 am

Yes, I’ve been overseas, and usually only when you cross a boarder do you have to show your papers. But, when in China, we were stopped and questioned often, not allowed to certain areas and forbidden from certain states. Is this what Arizona will turn into? Showing your passport at the State line? Being afraid of being stopped and questioned by the machine-gun-toting armed police force? Looking a lot like China, yes?

If you don’t want to sit idle, get out there and force politicians and businesses to step up. Stop hiring them, reduce the demand.

David C.

May 3rd, 2010
12:00 pm

So let’s get this straight … American farmers, small business owners and even the government hire illegals and exploit them, yet only the workers are punished? Immigration is not a problem because Mexicans are evil and hate America, its not a problem because we have an “insecure border”, it’s a problem because Americans hire illegals! If there was no work, there would be no immigration.
The companies who hire and exploit these workers get away with paying employees slave labor and they go unpunished. Even if they’re fined, they still come out making giant profits. Why isn’t this an issue? If we started hiring Canadians for higher wages than they make in Canada, we would have a Canadian immigration problem. They have an “insecure border” as well. Bottom line, stop blaming Mexicans. We need to look at ourselves, however, I am afraid we are too naive to actually think we are responsible for the problem. It has to be someone else’s fault right? It’s the American companies who exploit workers that causes this problem– face it.

Danielle

May 3rd, 2010
12:01 pm

I have only voted conservative. As a Christian my main issue was always against abortion. However, if the conservative party cannot care about it’s Hispanic Americans then i cannot believe they truly care about any life.

Republicans are digging their own grave.

No More Progressives!

May 3rd, 2010
12:05 pm

Danielle

May 3rd, 2010
11:49 am
What happens when my white husband is stopped for speeding. Do they look at my skin color and decide to ask for my papers?

Only if there is sufficient probable cause.

Danielle

May 3rd, 2010
12:06 pm

David C., correct illegals keep coming to the US because people will still hire them. There are laws on the books where company’s can be fined up to 10K per illegal worker.
New laws are rarely the answer. We need to enforce the laws we already have.

mit

May 3rd, 2010
12:06 pm

what made you think republicans cared about abortion? They got Danielle hook, line, and sinker.

Danielle

May 3rd, 2010
12:09 pm

no more progressive,

so what would be probable cause? If my husband is ticketed for speeding and I am a passenger does the police officer look at my skin color and decides if i’m brown enough to be questioned?

What does an illegal immigrant look like?

David C.

May 3rd, 2010
12:10 pm

Danielle,
The focus should not be on illegals, it needs to be on American companies. No matter what you do, any self-respecting man with love for his family will do whatever he has to in order to feed his family. Look at the Berlin Wall and their secure border. How well did that work? 10k per illegal immigrant is still not a lot of money when you consider how low their wages are. These companies can still profit. Laws enforced on companies will be faaar more effective than laws placed on workers. If we are going to get upset with anyone, it needs to be companies who exploit workers, not the workers themselves.

mit

May 3rd, 2010
12:11 pm

nmp, Only if there is sufficient probable cause.> i.e. they are brown.
this bill will do nothing for securing the border. I thought you tea baggers were for less govt. control anyway? Now, they are for more, just don’t charge me for it.

Danielle

May 3rd, 2010
12:17 pm

Mit, I agree. Politicians use certain issues to gain voters.
Most my husbands family are Evangelical Christians. But they are all white so this isn’t really effecting them much. My husband on the other hand has questioned if we’re turning into liberals. I don’t think so. I think the Republicans are going against what the conservative party should stand for. Not limiting the freedoms of it’s citizens. Less government not more intrusion.

You Distort/We Deride

May 3rd, 2010
12:19 pm

Bob, you write above the heads of your audience. You propound constitutional law edicts which contradict what conservatives want to hear, though your rationale is sound.

I, for one, would wish that the federal government would simply enforce its own laws relative to border patrol and immigration. The peoples’ remedy, however, is not state seizure of federal obligations, but rather electing federal officials to simply do their jobs.

GoodScout

May 3rd, 2010
12:20 pm

Bob, how dare you challenge the dicta of the Brownshirts! We come for the Mexicans, now, and since you’re not a Mexican you shouldn’t speak up. Next we’ll be rounding up other minorities, but since you’re not one of them, stay quiet. We’ll let you know when the GOP, er, Brownshirts will be coming for you!

Jay

May 3rd, 2010
12:20 pm

These enforcement only efforts are so short-sided, we have been doing that for the past 25 years and the situation has not changed. Unless we reform the immigration system which it does not work the problems at the border will continue. Immigrants do of want to come here illegally but the current system does not allow them to come here legally and as long as a low paying job in america pays 10X better than one in their country the will continue to come however they can… The violence at the border is part of another success of ours the war on drugs, as long as we are the No,! consumer and our dollars then are used to buy guns in the US that turn out all over Mexico in the hands of drug lords well the violence is just going to filter to this side. If we take immigrants out of the equation then the only people trying to cross illegally will be drug dealers and gun runners. In the mean time they will hide amongst immigrants and we will be as successful in this effort as we are in the war on drugs, more enforcement has not done the job on either issue, why are we expecting a different result.

scrappy

May 3rd, 2010
12:23 pm

Danielle – I have to say it, but hope it doesn’t lead the blog astray –

Do you realize the ironic hypocrisy of your posts? I vote conservative because of abortion, but the Republican party should be about less government and intrusion and not limit the freedom of it citizens?

George

May 3rd, 2010
12:27 pm

“George, spoken like a true liberal: “If you can’t argue with fact, blind them with insults!””

If I speak like a true liberal, you and your so-called conservative friends here speak like true commie pinkos.

Danielle

May 3rd, 2010
12:28 pm

Scrappy, I believe an unborn child is a human being w/ a beating heart.

So no i do not see the hypocrisy.

George

May 3rd, 2010
12:30 pm

“But, when in China, we were stopped and questioned often, not allowed to certain areas and forbidden from certain states. Is this what Arizona will turn into? Showing your passport at the State line? Being afraid of being stopped and questioned by the machine-gun-toting armed police force? Looking a lot like China, yes?’

Yes, that is why they are a Red State, with Pearce being the chief of politburo..Soviet style commie pinkos and they have the gall to call Obama a Socialist, when they are the biggest commies.

jconservative

May 3rd, 2010
12:33 pm

“If you come back identified as an illegal, then you get deported.”

Incorrect. If local law enforcement finds someone who may be illegal they turn them over to ICE.

This is the big fallacy in the Arizona law, local police have their hands tied by Federal law. The State of Arizona is not going to “deport” anyone. Pima County is not going to “deport” anyone. This law is just for show.

And Arizona taxpayers are not going to allow the local taxpayer funded jails to be filled with illegals at $20 to $30 dollars a head per day.
Arizona, like most States, is broke. You either raise taxes or decide not lock up illegals. Most cities and counties decided a long time ago not to lock up illegals. They turn them over to ICE and forget about them.

DawgDad

May 3rd, 2010
12:33 pm

Some of the posts here are really perplexing. Since when does passage of a law, any law, have ANYTHING to do with ENFORCING the law? The problem here is that the federal government is not enforcing EXISTING laws. So let’s pass more laws? Give me a break.

I do not in ANY way see this as a racial profiling issue, and quite frankly any attempt to cast it that way immediately discredits the person casting those dispersions as a race-baiter.

We have experience with the effects of past amnesty bills. Not a good idea. We also now have a serious problem with the open border to our south as it is a conduit for illegal workers, illegal squatters, and hard criminals. Giving these people amnesty is a travesty and a sellout of our national security and identity. Let them come through the established legal channels or send them packing.

The labor racketeering in high business and government halls has got to stop and stop now.

George

May 3rd, 2010
12:34 pm

“Scrappy, I believe an unborn child is a human being w/ a beating heart.”

The real hypocrits are people like Nathan Deal who want to speak from both sides of their mouths on these issues.

George

May 3rd, 2010
12:35 pm

Everyone talks about enforcing the law? I live in a big city. Do they enforce traffic laws? Do drivers obey the traffic laws? Do pedestrians not Jaywalk? Where is the police when we need them?

scrappy

May 3rd, 2010
12:38 pm

A more honest post would have been – I note the hypocrisy but choose to ignore that because these are my beliefs.

No More Progressives!

May 3rd, 2010
12:40 pm

Danielle

May 3rd, 2010
12:09 pm
no more progressive,

so what would be probable cause? If my husband is ticketed for speeding and I am a passenger does the police officer look at my skin color and decides if i’m brown enough to be questioned?

What does an illegal immigrant look like?

Proable cause is a legal term that stems from the 5th Amendment: “Its guarantees stem from English common law which traces back to the Magna Carta in 1215. For instance, grand juries and the phrase “due process” both trace their origin to the Magna Carta.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Go hire a lawyer. And for all I know, you look like an “undocumented worker.”

Danielle

May 3rd, 2010
12:45 pm

Scrappy 4 years ago I was pregnant. I had already been to my dr. for 3 visits and had seen my baby on ultrasound. I saw the heart beating. At 12 weeks I had complications and had to see my dr. where on that ultrasound the heart was no longer beating. After a D&C we had that child buried.

To you that may have been just a mass of tissue. But not to me. I still see no hypocrisy.

scrappy

May 3rd, 2010
12:52 pm

I’ve had similar issues complete with D&C and it is sad, but that does not mean that I profess to know what each woman should do and I certainly don’t want legislators preaching to me/any woman either.
Sad stories aside, being for a group that is supposed to want less government but then takes away rights of women – is hypocrisy. That is all I will say – back to immigration.

Danielle

May 3rd, 2010
12:55 pm

Again scrappy, maybe i’m a little too conservative. But what about the rights of men. I mean a woman can have an abortion.. but if she chooses to keep the child the you bet he better pay up.

Dan

May 3rd, 2010
12:56 pm

Most immigrants I know, are ticked off that many are here illegally after they worked their butts off to go through the process and become legal immigrants. As for the illegals complaing, it is 100% a politcal complaint they know the louder they squawk the less likely the enforcement agencies will be to send them back, as for the actual questioning, I am sure they find it laughable as they were most certainly subject to far worse governmental intrusions in their own country

No More Progressives!

May 3rd, 2010
12:58 pm

Danielle

May 3rd, 2010
11:40 am
No More Progressive, Oversees they don’t require their citizens to ’show me your papers’

“Illegal” immagrants, by whatever name you call them, are illegal, therefore, not citizens.

What is so frickin’ hard to understand here?

Danielle

May 3rd, 2010
1:01 pm

What is hard to understand is why so many people think that US citizens will not be effected by this law. Not just ‘illegals’ will be asked for their papers.

Jay

May 3rd, 2010
1:13 pm

These enforcement only efforts are so short-sided, we have been doing that for the past 25 years and the situation has not changed. Unless we reform the immigration system which it does not work the problems at the border will continue. Immigrants do of want to come here illegally but the current system does not allow them to come here legally and as long as a low paying job in america pays 10X better than one in their country the will continue to come however they can… The violence at the border is part of another success of ours the war on drugs, as long as we are the No,! consumer and our dollars then are used to buy guns in the US that turn out all over Mexico in the hands of drug lords well the violence is just going to filter to this side. If we take immigrants out of the equation then the only people trying to cross illegally will be drug dealers and gun runners. In the mean time they will hide amongst immigrants and we will be as successful in this effort as we are in the war on drugs, more enforcement has not done the job on either issue, why are we expecting a different result.

Danielle

May 3rd, 2010
1:14 pm

Jeff in ATL

May 3rd, 2010
1:20 pm

“As written, the Arizona law does not allow profiling and does not allow a police officer to question someone’s status as a resident of this country unless there has already been a legal reason to detain that person.”

That already existed and had for years. No new law was needed to provide law enforcement officers the ability to ask someone about his or her immigration status after probable cause established of breaking another law.

The new law mandates law enforcement officers question people they reasonably suspect are in the country illegally.

I’ll ask again: If not by race, then how is an officer to reasonably suspect someone may not be in the country legally?

Jeff in ATL

May 3rd, 2010
1:22 pm

“Everyone talks about enforcing the law? I live in a big city. Do they enforce traffic laws? Do drivers obey the traffic laws? Do pedestrians not Jaywalk? Where is the police when we need them?”

Hahaha. I jaywalk. All. The. Time!

HDB

May 3rd, 2010
1:23 pm

jconservative May 3rd, 2010
9:10 am
“Amendment 9
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”

The Airzona law attempts TO deny the 4th, 5th and 14th Amendment rights of ALL the people under the guise of protecting the border. Under this law, not ALL drivers’ licenses would be construed as proof of citizenship; therefore, EVERYONE would need a passport!!

Curious Observer

May 3rd, 2010
1:29 pm

If enforcement of labor law proves impractical, there is another, less intrusive way to deal, at least in part, with illegal immigration: states can update their motor vehicle laws to require proof of legal residency as a condition of obtaining or renewing drivers licenses.

hryder

May 3rd, 2010
1:30 pm

Having been a resident of Arizona and New Mexico for many years, I am well aware that the vast majority of U.S. citizens have no concept of the border situation. Douglas, Arizona, my one time home has an over twenty foot high cyclone fence and a deep ditch on the border. Similar to the former Berlin Wall except it is metal instead of concrete. Hugh spot lights at night with ICE vehicles between every two or three lights which illuminate the fence. The vehicles windows are covered with steel for protection against the various objects which strike them from people breaking immigration laws on both sides of the border. People with adobe fences place glass bottles on top while masonry is drying, breaking them when permanently in place, so people attempting to enter illegally will cut their hands. If I had not seen and/or experienced the described I would say to void the Arizona law. But, since I did, I agree with the law, recently tweaked, as do most of my former home town’s legally registered voters. They are descriptively under siege.

Danielle

May 3rd, 2010
1:31 pm

does everyone carry their i.d. if they are not driving.. I don’t.
walking, passenger, bus? seems silly.

DDJ

May 3rd, 2010
1:48 pm

When the economy bottoms out everyone points a finger and scapegoats those that are most defenseless. Its instinctive blame game…This kinda reminds me of what Hitler did to Jews because they were more successful than the Germans during one of their worst economic crisis in history. We basically are missing the larger picture and instead of looking at politicians who are corrupt as hell and do whatever they choose, we point fingers at undocumented workers who have been here for decades (only now we need to them for our miserable economic state..woe to us is what I say) Reality check is in dire need! Bottom line…I like Barr and I like what Jconservative had to say…Right on the money.
We need to look at ways to protect our boarders that does not involve such laws as this one targeting one ethnic group..the other thing we need to do is start accepting that Hispanics are not all illegal aliens. Puertoricans are American citizens.

Mexico has great natural resources we can use and vice versa so why not find a way to resolve this so that everyone gains? It won’t happen while we fight over stupid laws like this that distract us from the more important and pressing issues at hand..that is to find a working solution..there is no need for hate or name calling as that too is another distraction from the more critical issues we need to address.

No More Progressives!

May 3rd, 2010
2:14 pm

ATLPRINCE

May 3rd, 2010
9:52 am
Yet another PROBLEM that OBAMA is going to have to step in and be the voice of reason for. Another mess we have to clean up because you conservatives are only thinking about yourselves again.

Ne feceris ut rideam.

Take a hike.

RealDawg

May 3rd, 2010
2:16 pm

Oh well, I don’t want to be a racist so just let them all stay, bring their families over and their drugs. I will pay for their health care, extra car insurance for the wrecks they cause, and more taxes to support the jails we hold them in. Now, everybody happy?

No More Progressives!

May 3rd, 2010
2:17 pm

HDB

May 3rd, 2010
1:23 pm
Under this law, not ALL drivers’ licenses would be construed as proof of citizenship; therefore, EVERYONE would need a passport!!

Why is having a “passport” such a nefarious act, yet Queen Nancy & Congress are all for a National ID Card.

No More Progressives!

May 3rd, 2010
2:21 pm

Danielle

May 3rd, 2010
1:01 pm
What is hard to understand is why so many people think that US citizens will not be effected by this law. Not just ‘illegals’ will be asked for their papers.

I can’t see a Doctor, get a drivers license, obtain insurance, get a job, buy an airline ticket, write a check and a handfull of other daily functions without showing some form of identification. It doesn’t bother me at all. And yes, I am a Citizen of these United States.

Danielle

May 3rd, 2010
2:25 pm

no more progress, you can ask yourself that same question.

a national id is bad but forcing americans to carry a passport is ok w/ you?

me thinks, both are bad idea.

Danielle

May 3rd, 2010
2:32 pm

no progress, you do all those things but it’s not to prove yourself innocence of a crime. illegal until proven legal.

Chris Broe

May 3rd, 2010
3:28 pm

Arizona’s new immigration bill could be called “Vigilante Legislation” because the state is taking federal law into it’s own hands, as a lynch mob does, or any posse would. Because the tone of law and order is set from the top at the legislature, the trickle down of this anarchy could ignite vigilante fever in Arizona.

The illegals will not change their behavior. The change will be Arizona’s reaction to the same illegal aliens’ behavior.

A recipe for catastrophe?. Maybe. Or maybe all the illegals will come out of their hiding places with their hands in the international sign of surrender and say, “Gringo, don’t shoot, we are surrendering. We will go back to Mexico. Give us three steps, give us three steps mister and you wont see us no more.”

or not.

Rational Person

May 3rd, 2010
3:50 pm

For once, Bob takes a rational, freedom-affirming, Constitutionally sound position—and everybody starts knocking him. Sad.

No More Progressives!

May 3rd, 2010
3:52 pm

Danielle

May 3rd, 2010
2:32 pm
no progress, you do all those things but it’s not to prove yourself innocence of a crime. illegal until proven legal.

If an “undocumented worker” or an “illegal alien” aplies for a loan in the US using forged documents, that’s a crime. It probably is a crime in Mexico, Belgium, Egypt and Australia as well.

So, if you’re here illegally, and you fill out the application for an apartment, what form of identification to you use for the application? If you’re here illegally, explain how you obtained your drivers license.

Again: Why is this so frickin’ hard to understand?

ugaaccountant

May 3rd, 2010
4:43 pm

I’m done with this blog. If you can’t see that deporting illegal aliens is a vital police function that every city, state, and federal cop should be doing, then you’re platform just isn’t for me.

George

May 3rd, 2010
4:43 pm

“For once, Bob takes a rational, freedom-affirming, Constitutionally sound position—and everybody starts knocking him. Sad.”

Not everybody! Just some commies masquerading as conservatives! Bob is a true conservative!

Danielle

May 3rd, 2010
5:48 pm

No more progressives,

This has nothing to do with illegal immigrants. Why can’t you understand that.?

The only thing this law allows is to ask Americans to prove they are American and to force American citizens to carry ID at all times or risk being arrested.

This law does nothing to stop illegal immigration.

Also, you say you don’t want a national ID. Yet you also say you don’t mind carrying around ID even suggesting we shouldn’t all mind carrying around a passport. Just proves you don’t care about the issue you only care what the pundits tell you to think.

The conservative party is very much divided right now.

LOL

May 3rd, 2010
6:41 pm

mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the LIAR Obama, BEND OVER, here comes the CHANGE! – You are correct on Ben Franklin and immigrants. Here’s a quote:

Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our Language or Customs, any more than they can acquire our Complexion.

So he was right. I can’t even go to Pennsylvania and read the signs. It’s all in German.

dom youngross

May 3rd, 2010
8:52 pm

Barr’s arguments would have substantial merit on paper and in real life if it was a case of the Feds trying to augment federal police powers to then exercise such in Arizona rather than the staties in Arizona attempting to parallel federal law without pre-empting it. If you want to talk about traditions, FEDERAL encroachment upon the states and individual liberties is what raises a Supreme Court hackle the most.

Any law that cannot or will not be enforced is only a suggestion — or more likely, a capricious political tool. It could turn out that the Supreme Court takes a dim view of the federal government squatting on a responsibility and duty traditionally ceded to it by the states rather than vigorously exercising both, essentially saying to President Obama and AG Holder, “Tough nuts. You snooze, you lose. Ketchup.”

For those who support Arizona’s immigration law — don’t get upset about anything. Celebrate! The cat is out of the bag. The Feds wouldn’t (and likely won’t) do it, a state did, now the Feds are left in the dust — legally. Arizona’s immigration law has everything to do with illegal immigration. Illegals already are self-deporting from AZ. They know the gig is up — both the Feds and the illegals.

Arizona showed that a real PERCEIVED threat of getting caught and subsequently deported is all it really takes. Not another 10,000 new border guards. Not another 1000 km of new fence. Not another 100,000 new ICE agents.

Law enforcement in any area works only when 95% self-enforced, meaning 19 out of 20 people don’t break the law to begin with. It’s not going to be any different with immigration law, be it 19 out of 20 immigrants deciding not to cross the border illegally — or self-deporting if they already did — or 19 out of 20 potential employers of illegal immigrants deciding not to employ them. With the 19 obeying the law on their own steam, you have the manpower and resources to effectively catch and punish the errant 20th to fulfill the law.

Arizona police officers won’t have to ascertain citizenship status beyond the most clear-cut situation of reasonability for the law to have it’s desired deterrent effect, AND to keep them from being sued for either not enforcing the law toughly enough, or too toughly. Everybody against this law is citing being stopped for a broken tail light as inevitably provoking a Gestapo response. NOT LIKELY GONNA HAPPEN!!! Arizona police know the whole world is watching. And get real, they also know they will likely be set up for ’sting’ operations by opposition groups whereby completely-legit Latinos (probably lawyers!) will try to portray themselves as seemingly-illegal immigrants (seemingly according to THEIR most insidiously racist views that is), deliberately violate a pissant municipal ordinance as a fine-only misdemeanor act of political civil disobedience, and goad the responding officer into making a mistake.

Long story short, the 19 out of 20 otherwise ‘law-abiding’ illegal immigrants won’t be able to sweat the increased perceived threat of getting caught for being in Arizona (and the US) illegally. So they will continue to self-deport. The one out of twenty bad apple who doesn’t sweat anything as being both an overt criminal and illegal immigrant will likely stay put — then get nabbed when he/she eventually does what he/she is already spring-loaded to do — commit or attempt to commit a crime — or get pinched by a specific and dedicated illegal-immigrant law-enforcement actions as led by Arpaio.

Now is that fair, that an otherwise ‘law-abiding’ illegal immigrant has that duress hanging over him/her? THAT’S ALREADY BEEN ADDRESSED BY FEDERAL LAW! That’s what it means to be illegal. If you get away with something initially you still have the threat of getting caught hanging over your head. The main thing Arizona’s immigration law does is increase the perceived likelihood of an illegal being caught. You have the right to be secure in your papers, possessions, and things and against self-incrimination, among other things. Constitutionally, you have no right to be secure in your illegality.

The right-down-the-middle, cross-T’s-and-dot-I’s route to fulfilling the legal will of Arizonans has a whopping-big spotlight on it, and Arizona police officers don’t have to do anything more than follow that spotlight. The facts that the law is already effective before even taking effect via self-deportation — and would continue to be so — and that Arizona police have every reason not to go ape-sh*t enforcing it is what REALLY bunches up so many panties. Pre-emptive lawsuits based on the supposed potential for abuse in Arizona’s immigration law could very well be overruled by a court determination that there is a greater likelihood of non-abuse. Arguing what COULD happen is a two-way street. Look both ways before crossing it.

So, BRING ON THE LAWSUITS! Get this to the Supreme Court as soon as possible! I think it will survive constitutional scrutiny. And I think right now some of the Supreme Court justices are having a good chuckle while reading all the pundit arguments trying to say Arizona’s immigration law is unconstitutional.

Now though I applaud Arizona’s immigration law, if the Supreme Court finds it unconstitutional, I can live with that. That’s their job. That’s their expertise. They don’t tell me how to do my job, and I don’t tell them how to do theirs. The question is, for all those who THINK Arizona’s immigration law is unconstitutional — especially President Obama — if the Supreme Court RULES that it is, will such be able to live with it? As we’ve seen with the Citizens United decision, the answer for President Obama is a likely NO. And THAT’s something Bob Barr should raise an eyebrow over.

Dabid

May 3rd, 2010
8:55 pm

As a Native American and a natural citizen of America, All I can say we had very poor imagration laws, look at what has and is still happening to us.

Reid Adair

May 3rd, 2010
9:13 pm

The law has been revised, Bob, to say that the individual must have been stopped by a police officer for an offense of some nature. They cannot stop someone simply because they appear to be an illegal immigrant.

I’m curious also, Bob, how you would propose the citizens of this country who are very concerned about illegal immigration address the issue? Clearly, the President and Congress have no intentions of dealing with this.

Mike

May 3rd, 2010
9:17 pm

Bob, grow a pair. Nobody gives a crap if anybody wants to immigrate to this country if they will go by the rules that the USA has put forth. If they don’t, then by all means should each state have the right to secure their borders if the US government won’t. I’m so sick of all the BS every freaking bleeding heart liberal starts crying about when somebody that is not even legal to be in this country is questioned about their status. Give me a freaking break. If you don’t want to do what it takes to become a legal immigrant of this great country, then please just stay out.

Brakeman

May 3rd, 2010
9:55 pm

Welcome to the UNITED STATES OF IMPOTENCE.

Sharon

May 3rd, 2010
10:05 pm

Coming up to every election there is always an uproar over why registered voters have to present ID in order to vote. There is opposition by some people in every state, of every race, political view, etc. So now you want to make everyone have a national ID card required to be presented upon order by the always infallible law enforcement officer.

And by the way, where is the money going to come from to fund this all of this activity? As one poster stated, Arizona, like every other state, is broke and so is the federal government.

I guess it makes for entertaining blogging though.

patrick sulley

May 3rd, 2010
10:14 pm

Jameser
May 3rd, 2010
8:18 am

I don’t often comment, but ended up here on the conservative pages and I must…
The Constitution guarantees against illegal search and seizure. Pulling someone over FOR NO OTHER REASON than that they are suspected of being illegal is in itself illegal.
==================================================

Oh contraire. The law consistently sets up sobriety check points….insurance check points and DL check points. Is this also a violation of the constitution? Dont they stop people for no reason and check them for papers then. You clearly dont know the law or the constitution

patrick sulley

May 3rd, 2010
10:17 pm

you idiots compare the systematic round up and execution of jews to a state protecting its borders from invaders from the south

patrick sulley

May 3rd, 2010
10:23 pm

Danielle
May 3rd, 2010
1:31 pm

does everyone carry their i.d. if they are not driving.. I don’t.
walking, passenger, bus? seems silly.
——————————-

seems silly? Immigrate to any other country and you will by law. Seems silly for us not to do the same thing

Jeff

May 3rd, 2010
10:25 pm

Bob, I must respectfully disagree with you. The whole issue for me boils down to this: our government, ANY government, be it national, state, or local, MUST to ANYTHING to protect our nation from illegal immigrants coming into our country. The safety and security risk for our future is too great to get hung up on some obscure way to look at this issue.

I say we protect our borders, our citizens, and our national security by ANY MEANS NECESSARY. If you are a LEGAL citizen or even a LEGAL immigrant, you have no worries. You won’t get sent back to your home country because some police officer in Mesa, Ariz., looks at you funny. But if you are ILLEGAL and BREAKING FEDERAL LAW, then by all means, I want them to strip search you on the street and find out why the crap you are in MY country illegally.

I don’t think it’s too much to ask, for what this country provides, to ask anyone who wants to join us to come here LEGALLY and follow the necessary steps to become a citizen. Learn the language, get your paperwork in order, get a government-sanctioned ID, take a citizenship test, get a driver’s license, pay your taxes, and do what the REST of us are required to do to be citizens in our great country.

God bless the United States of America… and for you ACLU-minded, liberal, illegal-immigrant-sympathizers, I give you this warning: If we DO NOT tighten up our borders in the next 10 years, then our country will be in SERIOUS danger of some sort of attack or destruction from within our own borders in the next 20 years. There are millions of people on this planet who would love nothing more than to sneak into the U.S. and help destroy it from within…. why don’t we make it a LITTLE harder for those people to accomplish that?

patrick sulley

May 3rd, 2010
10:28 pm

GoodScout
May 3rd, 2010
12:20 pm

Bob, how dare you challenge the dicta of the Brownshirts! We come for the Mexicans, now, and since you’re not a Mexican you shouldn’t speak up. Next we’ll be rounding up other minorities, but since you’re not one of them, stay quiet. We’ll let you know when the GOP, er, Brownshirts will be coming for you!
============================

wrong analogy. Mexicans are not suppose to be here anyway without permission. If you are trespassing on my land I can remove you with what ever force I deem necessary. If you are there legally I can not. See the difference?

Concerne for California

May 3rd, 2010
10:42 pm

If you believe strongly that Arizona has this wrong, then you should stand up for what you beleive. You should go to Arizona now. Pick up a car load of illegals and bring them to their new home, in your community, where they will be cherished for the vibrancy and diversity they will undoubtedly add. Yes. I thought so. Not a single taker. Why is that?

Bruno3

May 4th, 2010
1:15 am

Bob Barr, what about the states responsibility to its legal citizens in this case Arizona and the lack of enforcement of the law and its constitutional duties by the federal government to protect the state of Arizona and its citizens from unlawful entry into this country. That include all crimes associated with this unlawful entry, state and federal violations and crimes. I do not agree with some of Arizona’s provisions in this new state law and the potential for abuse of authority; however is it not the duty of a state when the federal government does not enforce its own law to take appropriate action to protect its sovereignty by persons committing a unlawful action against the people of that state?

Gideonsword

May 4th, 2010
1:46 am

Sir, I think you should reexamine this issue from another perspective. As some of the other bloggers have noted, this is not a “wildcat” piece of legislation without precident. It mirrors the Federal laws that are being “unconstitutionally” ignored by the Federal Government.
The Federal Government was established with only a few responsibilities: Provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, establish justice… You get the idea. Well, Washington has just about crapped out on all of the things that it was supposed to do, and instead, has taken on a plethera of new responsiblities it was actually prohibited from, like the “income tax” that it unconstitutionally rapes from Americans every year to pay for the things it wasn’t supposed to do!
So, yes, if the Fed refuses to do its job, it is left up to the States to fill the void. May God preserve our Nation, and protect it from enemies, both foreign and DOMESTIC! Gideonsword.

carl aven

May 4th, 2010
3:43 am

Mr Barr ;
I have generally been in your corner on political views but I take exception to you on this one
[1] The public was assured originally that profiling would only take place if a perpetrator was caught or apprehended for a crime. That would seem perfectly normal
[2] The borders are still open crime does prevail and our reps continue to do nothing regarding it
What is it about the words illegal immigrant one does not understand..
kindest Regards
Carl M Aven

Retta

May 4th, 2010
4:15 am

If ONLY we had had this anti-immigrant fervour during Plymouth Rock … or maybe during African slavery !!

By the way, … didn’t Europeans ALWAYS have preference for YEARS over non-white immigrants ?? Where is the blacklash against Canadians who live here without dou\cumentation … and how will a police offficer profile THEM ??

Chris Broe

May 4th, 2010
6:51 am

Bob Barr is so right: Arizona’s immigration law is constitutionally troubling.

However there is danger in overstating the illegality because although the Arizona bill is troubling, it’s not upsetting. It’s a little discombobulating, to be sure, but it doesn’t give me the heebee jeebies, okay?

The constitutionality of any law is a fine, fine line between Marshall Law, anarchy, and the worst case scenario of matriarchal dominatrixism. (see 2008’s GOP Veep candidate).

Look, it just wouldn’t be fair to the GOP if we dismiss this new immigration bill out of hand. Liberals claim to be tolerant of other’s ideas. Democrats should be open to admit it when they are wrong. Let Arizona play this law out, and attempt to gain some measure of control over the Ole leak on our southern border. (my kingdom for an accent grave key). Then, when it blows up in their face, and they blow the November landslide victory they are certain to win, the democrats all across this great land can look across the aisle and say, “I’ll be seeing you in all the old familiar places….”

Why can’t I get an umlaut or an accent grave key? I can never type the diacritical marks I need. I hate blogging. I hate myself. I hate the world.

Nuke IRAN!!!!

Drawing Black Lines

May 4th, 2010
8:23 am

Who is organizing all the protests? Seems like an awful lot of people to organize so quickly? Is this an astroturf movement? All we need is some bricks to be thrown and then complete hypocrisy can begin.

Don

May 4th, 2010
8:45 am

I am all for:

1. Defending our boarders
2. Deporting known illegal aliens
3. Requiring employers to verify residency before hiring
4. Checking residency status after any arrest
5. Pushing the Federal gov’t to do their job and fix the immigration system.

I am against:

1. Poorly written, but well intentioned laws
2. Broad police/gov’t powers to detain virtually anyone not carrying proof of citizenship with them
3. National ID cards
4. Citizens being required to carry ID with them at all times.

We are giving our freedoms away much, much too easily. It will come back to haunt us.

George

May 4th, 2010
8:54 am

The way some of the clowns on this board are arguing one would think that the Hispanics tried to bomb Time Square. If you look at the political commercials one would think that Hispanics ran the plane into WTC…not radical moslems…get a life and get over your bigotry and focus on what needs to be done when we have limited resources…tackle Islamic terrorism…and to those who say they want their country back…pay the national debt and you will have your country back. A nation nose deep in debt has no sovereignty, however which you might all try to protest. Bob Barr is right…this law smacks of communism and people who support it are commie-KGB sympathizers, whether they are smart enough to know it or not! End of story!

Roger

May 4th, 2010
9:26 am

Respectively Bob, when the Federal government abandons it responsibility to enforce the existing laws of the land, States have the right and obligation to protect its citizens. Regardless of old laws or new laws it comes down to the practical matter of enforcement in tangible and practical ways. You would not permit a group of homeless people to camp out on your lawn or around your house. You would call for enforcement. Our country is no different than your home. Mexicans are coming across the border illegally therefore profiling to some degree is a no-brainer. One does not turn their head to a situation to follow a self-destruction abandonment of the basic premise to secure the land and its citizens.

Jess

May 4th, 2010
10:00 am

This law does not “smack” of communism, it “smacks” of Europe. I lived and worked in two different Europeon countries, and traveled extensively in Europe and the far east. While there I was required to have my passport, with appropriate visas, with me at all times. While living in the London area I was required to register with local officials as an alien anytime I moved. Although I did not test it, I fully understood if I violated any of the rules for aliens, I could lose my visa and be deported. It never once occured to me that these rules are overbearing. I really do not see a problem with asking someone to show they are in the country legally.

No More Progressives!

May 4th, 2010
10:47 am

Danielle

May 3rd, 2010
5:48 pm
No more progressives,

Also, you say you don’t want a national ID. Yet you also say you don’t mind carrying around ID even suggesting we shouldn’t all mind carrying around a passport. Just proves you don’t care about the issue you only care what the pundits tell you to think.

No one, literally no one, “tells” me what to think. Including limp-wristed anti-American folks like you.

It is already a Federal requirement (a law) for Foreign nationals to carry identification with them at all times when in the US. That wasn’t a problem a month ago before the Arizona issue came up. This nation (tries) to enact legislation that is for the good of all. You do NOT get a pass simply because your “special.”

Phillip

May 4th, 2010
12:54 pm

Problem is with Progressive Democrats and yes Progressive Republicans running Washington DC for their own personal power and needing the Hispanic vote. The Progressive Democrats and Republicans will not protect the borders. Gee, Where did i read about the governments responsibility in protecting our country? Oh! That’s right the Constitution.

No More Progressives!

May 4th, 2010
1:16 pm

Well said, Phillip.

Another Problem in America

May 4th, 2010
1:20 pm

I kind of agree with some of almost everyone, but what is the answer. This problem just didn’t start, its been going on forever. What really makes me mad is if I who was borned & raised in GA. want to enroll my granddaughter who is also an AMERICAN CITIZEN in school where WE reside than I have to have all of this paperwork and proof, everything short of a letter from the President, but parents that are here ILLEGALLY can enroll their kids in school, no problems at all. NOT FAIR! I am STRUGGLING to pay the IRS taxes & back taxes, plus penalty & interest, which is killing my pockets, but people that are here ILLEGALLY can work and keep every dime they make. NOT FAIR!!

babrad

May 4th, 2010
1:23 pm

Mr. Barr: I agree with you completely. I am mystified that any true conservative would support giving such breathtaking power to the government. I am equally mystified at the prevalence of the “polls support it, so it must be right” theory, when part of the purpose of the Constitution is to protect our rights from majority rules that would infringe on those rights. As a former prosecutor, I’m sure you are also aware of the inevitable temptation for prosecutors and police to stretch a vague criminal statute so it can be applied to heretofore unforeseen situations. Another commenter stated in part “I highly doubt that AZ police officers are just going to start arresting brown people at will.” That’s probably correct. The problem is precisely that the police COULD do that under this law, while giving some other justification. Almost all the defenses of this law I’ve seen rely in part on the “reasonable enforcement” theory. I’m an attorney. Take it from me–90% of cops are dedicated (and badly underpaid) public servants, but if the law can be stretched or abused, it will be.

Not Palin

May 4th, 2010
1:55 pm

Marie you said it perfectly. I am tired of riding past construction sites and seeing most of the crew that is probably illegal. I say do a ssn verification and have the employer check those eligible to work and if they cant be verified the first and second time. They have to be manually researched those found to be illegal can be sent home.

jarvis

May 4th, 2010
2:03 pm

I would never show my identification to anyone without proper cause, and me hanging out isn’t proper cause.

It will only take the arrest of one citizen for refusing to present identification, and this entire debate will become moot very quickly. It will only take one lawsuit to have this thrown out.

We have the right to go about our business every day without being questioned by the local police because we might have the physical characteristics of law breakers.

George

May 4th, 2010
2:08 pm

“This law does not “smack” of communism, it “smacks” of Europe. I lived and worked in two different Europeon countries, and traveled extensively in Europe and the far east.”

Eastern Europe! If it smells like communism, it is communism! And we are talking about impact on citizens and legal residents…and next time try catching an Islamic terrorist and stop focusing on good Christians because their skin color is different!

Jefferson

May 4th, 2010
2:11 pm

Big party tomorrow. Mexican Christmas.

Juan Carlos Diego Raul Sanchez

May 4th, 2010
2:14 pm

You stupid douche bag. It’s a federal freaking law that AZ is going to adhere to. I wish we could box up all of the brown leeches and send them back. They are a threat to our national security, they take jobs from us that are citizens, and the fact that we have to pay for their stupid a** kids to go to school. They just sit there “si” “no”. Go to Mexico on vacation and leave the resort – see how many times you get asked to show your passport…you are a foot fungus troglodyte

You can call me Al-Quaida

May 4th, 2010
2:15 pm

Bob Barr is an honorable man & is absolutely correct on this one. Leaving US borders open can only help my fellow terrorists in coming to America. I have already spent the last several months learning Spanish, I’ve shaved my beard (kept my mustache though), worked on my tan, wear cowboy boots & I am now going by the name Jesus (ironic no?). So hopefully the US gov’t. will overturn this law, so we can continue to build our terrorist cells in your country & someday perpetrate mass Jihad on all you infidels.

jarvis

May 4th, 2010
2:19 pm

You guys can get as mad as you want. This law doesn’t stand a chance.

Get Real

May 4th, 2010
2:21 pm

Even the Liberal news CNN showed and discussed the amount of mid-easterners found trying to cross the border. That’s how the dirty bomb will be brought into the USA, via open border! The way these hispanics reproduce when in the USA they will soon be the majority and we will be like the American Indians once were. Seal up the borders now and Arizona won’t have to resort to these measures. Seal the borders and deport all illegals immediately!

Get Real

May 4th, 2010
2:24 pm

BTW Bob, enter Iran, North Korea, China, Vennezula, Cuba, etc. and see what you get! It’s won’t be a government handout and freedom to do as you wish! And, I don’t think you will be protesting the unfairness of the welcome you received!

jarvis

May 4th, 2010
2:31 pm

It must be terrible going through life as scared as all of you are.

You are too chicken-sh*t to realize that every tiny bit of freedom you give up isn’t ever going to come back.

I would rather be dead than give up my freedoms to government control. Thank God this isn’t a police state. The local authorities have no right to ask me for anything unless they have probable cause.

You call yourselves conservatives? You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Danielle

May 4th, 2010
2:46 pm

No progress,,

’special’?
Is that sorta ’separate but equal’?
As long as you have ID everything should be fine..

So I have to carry ID at all times because I’m Hispanic even though I am an American and my family has lived in TX for almost forever.. No one in my family ever crossed any borders. Notice all the Spanish surnames at the Alamo.. But to PROVE to some cop who thinks I ‘Look Mexican’ that I am a US citizen.?!

I have to carry ID at all times for fear of being questioned/detained.

And maybe a driver’s license won’t be enough..

Check out this video link below… Is this what you hope for our country to become? Have Conservatives become so completely racist that they would rather have a Nazi like Police State government all in the name of getting rid of all the little brown people.

http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Man-says-he-was-racially-targeted-forced-to-provide-birth-certificate-91769419.html

sam adams

May 4th, 2010
2:47 pm

i’m glad someone has finally awakened to the fact that the “conservative” wing of the republican party has been giving away my rights for years now! fear of terrorists, fear of foreigners, fear of financial ruin — they always have some excuse to scare themselves into giving away my rights…when did AMERICANS become such wussies???

Conservative?

May 4th, 2010
2:55 pm

Why is it that so-called conservatives are all about “Less gov’t., more freedom”, yet they want our gov’t. to force a woman to have a baby, drill for oil on pristine land or on our coasts (where’s the conservation in that?), tell me I am not responsible enough to purchase alcohol on Sunday and continue to allow our borders to remain porous, while spending billions on a war in Iraq, when everyone knows it was the Saudi’s (whom Barack bows down to) that we should be dealing with. I will gladly carry & show my ID in order for the US to remain a safe & free country!

THE TRUTH

May 4th, 2010
3:08 pm

Is this the same Bob Barr who spoke at a Minutemen Rally in D.C. 2 years ago when he was running for President?

Eat the Immigrants

May 4th, 2010
3:15 pm

The national government is not going to do anything right now, so it’s good to see that a state is taking action. If the illegals want to pay my taxes for me, then I’m ok if they want to stay.

Danielle

May 4th, 2010
3:16 pm

Juan Carlos Diego Raul Sanchez
May 4th, 2010
2:14 pm

You stupid douche bag. It’s a federal freaking law that AZ is going to adhere to. I wish we could box up all of the brown leeches and send them back. They are a threat to our national security, they take jobs from us that are citizens, and the fact that we have to pay for their stupid a** kids to go to school. They just sit there “si” “no”. Go to Mexico on vacation and leave the resort – see how many times you get asked to show your passport…you are a foot fungus troglodyte

Juan Carlos,,,
Why don’t you do something with your life if you have to compete with the work the illegal immigrants are doing.

jarvis

May 4th, 2010
3:44 pm

He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither. – Benjamin Franklyn

Bart

May 4th, 2010
4:36 pm

Our government is supposed to protect it’s citizens. Yet Rob Krentz among others have lost their lives due to illegal immigration.
Arizona did the right thing. Most Americans are pro-SB 1070.

Honest Abe

May 4th, 2010
4:38 pm

Everyone should read this by attorney Walter Moore!

The Dishonest Debate about Arizona and amnesty.

http://web.mac.com/waltermoore/WalterMooreSays.com/Blog/Entries/2010/5/2_The_Dishonest_Debate_About_Arizona_And_Amnesty.html

Redshirt

May 4th, 2010
4:49 pm

The Arizona will be found to be Constitutional. While the Feds claim that the Constitution gives the Feds the sole right to control Immigration, and base that claim on the short statement in the Constitution- the process of Naturalization is reserved to the Federal government. The process reserved to the Feds is the issue of Legal immigration and how someone, an aien, will be admitted to citizenship.

The criminalization of the act of invading this nation, as an illegal alien, is no where reserved to the Feds. No where in the Constitution are the states pre-empted from enacting criminal statutes. As an example, bank robbery is a State and Federal Crime- the prosecution of which, in many instances, is left in the hands of state prosecutors.

As for Bobby Barr, he has his own ax to gring. As for the law abiding citizens of the country– we no longer trust Bobby and those of his ilk, that being the political class, to protect US.

No More Progressives!

May 4th, 2010
5:18 pm

Danielle

May 4th, 2010
2:46 pm
No progress,,

So I have to carry ID at all times because I’m Hispanic even though I am an American and my family has lived in TX for almost forever.. No one in my family ever crossed any borders. Notice all the Spanish surnames at the Alamo.. But to PROVE to some cop who thinks I ‘Look Mexican’ that I am a US citizen.?!

For the last time, the way the Arizona law was written, a police officer cannot stop you “because you look Mexican.”

If you ran a red light, caused a disturbance, shoplifted, etc., and the police officer has engaged you for a legal reason (probable cause, the phrase you’re having so much trouble with) then he can proceed by searching your trunk, asking you for ID, etc. If, in the course of his legal contact with you, he discovers that you’re here illegally, action may be taken.

And I’m glad you’re an American. But you’re taking this way too personally. Mention has been made about the rancher Kertz, who was killed. Arizona is under seige! They have to do something!

levotb

May 4th, 2010
5:26 pm

I disrespectfully disagree. This commentary shows just how far into the abyss of Libertarianism (where “laissez faire” rules over common sense) the once-conservative Bob Barr has fallen.

Honest Abe

May 4th, 2010
5:27 pm

Contact every politician or City such as West Hollywood, City of Carson, Los Angeles,
and San Diego for opposing Arizona’s new law. Give them hell!

The law is Constitutional!

Bradwhg

May 4th, 2010
5:28 pm

When they came for the agricultural jobs, I said nothing because I didn’t pick strawberries or tomatoes. When they came for the service jobs, I didn’t say anything because I didn’t bus tables or wash dishes.
When they came for the construction jobs I was silent because I didn’t build houses.
When they exported my neighbors job to India, I was quiet because it wasn’t my job.
When my boss replaced me with a legal H-1a visa holder, there was no one left to speak for me.

Diane

May 4th, 2010
5:31 pm

I am Hispanic and I do not fear being asked about my legality. It’s the damn illegals
that are in an uproar because they know they are not supposed to be here.
The Hispanic groups are in an uproar because their TAKE OVER PLANS may be
ruined!
Don’t be stupid white people the Mexicans want to take over and have been planning it
for about 4 decades!
U are all so stupid to have allowed this crap to happen!

Rachel

May 4th, 2010
6:01 pm

Mr. Barr,

You are not correct in your assumption that it is a federal responsibility only. While it is a federal responsibility, most laws are actually repeated in state laws as well, such as robbery and kidnapping. This is no different. The below link shows the law relating to the arrest of an illegal alien. It is in the US Code, Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter II, Part VIII > § 1324.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/usc_sec_08_00001324—-000-.html
(c) Authority to arrest
No officer or person shall have authority to make any arrests for a violation of any provision of this section except officers and employees of the Service designated by the Attorney General, either individually or as a member of a class, and all other officers whose duty it is to enforce criminal laws.

“All other officers whose duty it is to enforce criminal laws” includes both state and municipal law enforcement officers.

jackbenimble

May 4th, 2010
7:38 pm

The Constitution gives USA Congress the authority to establish a uniform rule of naturalization. The Constitution also requires the Federal Government to GUARANTEE each state freedom from invasion.

I don’t see anything in there that prevents the State Government from enforcing Federal Law.

I further think that “GUARANTEE” is about the STRONGEST word in the Constitution and if the Federal Government won’t live up to that obligation that they can STFU.

gmac

May 4th, 2010
7:57 pm

As one that lives in the Border State of Texas, I applaud Arizona for stepping up to the plate to protect their citizens. The MSM will not provide the real truth about what is going on, not just at the border but beyond. What the MSM will not tell you is there are a lot of Hispanics that are in favor of this law as well.They intend on lumping all Hispanics into a box to further their agenda.
Immigration and Naturalization Law passed in 1952. It made it a Felony for anyone to aid, abet or provide comfort to those in this country illegally. That included elected officials and law enforcement. What Arizona has done is nothing new however the open border groups that staged the May 1st protest along with Communist, Socialist and other groups calling for a Revolution in the US know this very well but they count of the forever silent American Citizens,many who are the real victims of Illegal Immigrants, to remain silent.As one that is in the Mortage Industry I can attest to the fact millions of illegals falsely claimed to be an American Citizen in order to obtain a home under the same guidelines as Citizens/Legal Immigrants.This is another Felony. So when those the speak the loudest try to proclaim illegal immigration is a victimless crime, stop and think of the additional crimes they commit once then illegally enter this country. I personally turned a man from the Dominican Republic into the FBI for his mortgage fraud committed against a retiree. The man racked over 3 million in fraudulent mortgages..all cash out under the SS# of a woman drawing SS. It was up to her to prove she did not take out these mortgages and had her SS suspended and bank account frozen all the while the illegal took the millions and ran…..
Rape, robbery, identity theft, voter fraud, murder…these are all acts committed against American Citizens/Legal immigrants by those that should not be here in the first place. So when Mr. Barr states it should be the Federal Governments job, they have failed ,not only this country but every citizen/legal immigrant.
If we are a nation of laws, we need to stand up, if we are not, then just open the border and become what many illegals have left.
As for the “racial profiling” Hispanics are classified as White…maybe I should revert to my Ethnicity which would make me a minority, and refuse to “show my papers” somehow, I don’t think I will get a free gratias….I show my “papers” everyday including not being able to write a check without proving who I am…do you think if I refuse Mr. Al will march in protest?

jimmy martin

May 4th, 2010
8:16 pm

What’s the problem? All interstate and local class A truck drivers have national ID’s and have to show them, sometimes, several times a day. It is the illegals (ALL felons) who are fighting this new law in AZ. I hear no problem from the American citizens showing their ID’s. They are proud to show they are American citizens and NOT Illegal felons who are stealing our jobs and benefits. With a coward “president” we must do what we must do. Arizona is just the first step. People of color (non caucasian) who are legal citizens are screaming for something to be done to get the illegals out of the jobs they used to have. First it was the elevator operators in California….as for agriculture…use prison labor!!!

lance sjogren

May 4th, 2010
8:19 pm

reality:

Don’t play dumb. Everyone believes government has certain roles, but people who fall on different places on the political spectrum differ on what those roles are.

Libertarians do believe in little or no government, in fact I would say they are borderline anarchists. Conservatives are not the same as Libertarians, however. They believe there are certain functions that the government not only should perform but has an obligation to perform. One of those functions is securing our borders.

Danielle

May 4th, 2010
8:29 pm

no progress,,

if a driver fails to come to a complete stop, receives a ticket, and then the police officer looks in the car and sees a Hispanic in the passenger side, then do they have reason to ask for the passengers ID? which i never carry, i don’t care how many times you say you need yours daily.. I don’t. nor am I required to carry ID on me, but if i don’t have it then poss. off to detention?! Of course, I would sue as I’m sure many others would too. Which might be a much larger problem for AZ than the illegals.

If not by skin color, then how do police officers decide whose legal status to check.?

I notice you didn’t comment on the video.. That’s the problem with this law. I don’t believe that police officers will always just stop for a ‘first offense’. And I don’t believe a Drivers License will always be sufficient enough to ‘prove’ one is American. Look for yourself all the police brutality videos on you tube. AZ is giving too much power to their police.

And it’s not personal, I just can’t believe so many cannot see how much room for abuse there is. Normally, if one jaywalks do you think an officer would arrest them? Well, now they can if you can’t prove right then and there that you’re a US citizen.

People from all over keep saying the constitution does not apply to illegals, that’s fine. My argument is that there is still room for many upon many of American’s that can be jailed under this unjust law. And the full constitutional rights should still apply to all Americans whether they look legal or not.

gmac

May 4th, 2010
8:53 pm

Danielle….would that be like my ITALIAN Grandfather that interned during WWII…a US Citizen with 2 sons serving in the US Military?
Guess what…..after he was released..he moved on and never deamonized the US for what they did…..the “racist” word never left his mouth for, regardless of what he went through, he knew the US was acting in the best interest of the American Citizens/Legal Immigrants. That is the difference between the Immigrants of old and the new found Illegal Immigrants that think for some reason they are “owed” because they came here illegally…..

gmac

May 4th, 2010
8:53 pm

Danielle….would that be like my ITALIAN Grandfather that interned during WWII…a US Citizen with 2 sons serving in the US Military?
Guess what…..after he was released..he moved on and never deamonized the US for what they did…..the “racist” word never left his mouth for, regardless of what he went through, he knew the US was acting in the best interest of the American Citizens/Legal Immigrants. That is the difference between the Immigrants of old and the new found Illegal Immigrants that think for some reason they are “owed” because they came here illegally…..

Jimi

May 4th, 2010
11:09 pm

The Feds haven’t followed the Constitution for years. Meanwhile, a showdown is brewing over state’s rights. First, you have state overlay of immigration enforcement in AZ. Next, you have 1/2 dozen states that have passed in state firearm manufacturing exemptions from Federal firearms laws. Third, California will legalize marijuana next November.
All are in direct violation of Federal laws and statutes. Montana passed a law allowing the imprisonment of any Federal agent up to 2 years in state prison that attempts to interfere with Montana gun laws.
Something must give. What an exciting time to be alive.

agrneydgrl

May 5th, 2010
12:39 am

Congress has been granted power “To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization”. What specifically does this mean? Naturalization is the act by which an alien is made a citizen of the united States. Sherman, who attended the Convention which framed our Constitution notes the intentions for which the power was granted. He says: “that Congress should have the power of naturalization, in order to prevent particular States receiving citizens, and forcing them upon others who would not have received them in any other manner. It was therefore meant to guard against an improper mode of naturalization, rather than foreigners should be received upon easier terms than those adopted by the several States.” see CONGRESSIONAL DEBATES, Rule of Naturalization, Feb. 3rd, 1790, page 1148

Indeed, the power over naturalization granted to Congress is very limited in its scope and merely determines who shall or shall not be a Citizen of the united States.

In 1824, Chief Justice Marshall pointed out:

“A naturalized citizen is indeed made a citizen under an Act of Congress, but the Act does not proceed to give, to regulate, or to prescribe his capacities. He becomes a member of the society, possessing all the rights of a native citizen, and standing, in the view of the Constitution, on the footing of a native. The Constitution does not authorize Congress to enlarge or abridge those rights. The simple power of the national legislature, is to prescribe a uniform rule of naturalization, and the exercise Of this power exhausts it, so far as regards the individual. The Constitution then takes him up, and, among other rights, extends to him the capacity of suing in the Courts of the United States, precisely under the same circumstance under which a native might sue. He is distinguishable in nothing from a native citizen, except so far as the Constitution makes the distinction. The law makes none.” ___ OSBORN V. BANK OF THE UNITED STATES, 22 U. S. 738 (1824)

In debating naturalization, Rep. WHITE notes the narrow limits of the power in question and ”doubted whether the constitution authorized Congress to say on what terms aliens or citizens should hold lands in the respective States; the power vested by the Constitution in Congress, respecting the subject now before the House, extend to nothing more than making a uniform rule of naturalization. After a person has once become a citizen, the power of congress ceases to operate upon him; the rights and privileges of citizens in the several States belong to those States; but a citizen of one State is entitled to all the privileges and immunities of the citizens in the several States…..all, therefore, that the House have to do on this subject, is to confine themselves to an uniform rule of naturalization and not to a general definition of what constitutes the rights of citizenship in the several States.” see: Rule of Naturalization, Feb. 3rd, 1790, page 1152

Also see:

“MR. STONE … concluded that the laws and constitutions of the States, and the constitution of the United States; would trace out the steps by which they should acquire certain degrees of citizenship [page 1156]. Congress may point out a uniform rule of naturalization; but cannot say what shall be the effect of that naturalization, as it respects the particular States. Congress cannot say that foreigners, naturalized, under a general law, shall be entitled to privileges which the States withhold from native citizens.[page 1157] Rule of Naturalization, Feb. 3rd, 1790, pages 1156 and 1157

Listening to the assertions made today regarding the supremacy of our federal government’s powers over aliens, and particularly an alleged federal supreme power over those who have invaded the borders of any one of the united States, it is stunning to study the Naturalization Debates of 1790 which repeatedly confirms our States have retained a policing power and power to legislate upon the rights and privileges of citizens and persons within their borders. In fact, they delegated a limited power to Congress to merely establish how an alien might become a citizen of the united states which then extended the rights and privileges of each State to those declared to be citizens of the united states by Congress‘s rule of Naturalization.

The 14th Amendment: its legislative intent

After studying the debates which framed the 14th Amendment it is found that to secure rights and privileges to Blacks as were secured to White citizens prior to the adoption of the 14th Amendment under each State’s laws, the objective of the 14th Amendment was to secure and extend these same rights and privileges to all people without distinction based upon race, color or previous condition of slavery. This was the narrow objective of the 14th Amendment and was never intended to enlarge or establish new rights and privileges under a State‘s laws.

The 14th Amendment accomplishes this by first making Blacks Citizens of the united states and of the State wherein they resided, and then forbid every State to make or enforce any law which abridged its recognized privileges or immunities, or deprives any “Citizen” or any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process under state law; nor allowed any State to deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of its laws, which included a State‘s Bill of Rights. In fact, whatever a state’s Bill of Rights was, the 14th Amendment was intended to make those rights equally applicable to Blacks as they were to Whites! The legislative intent of the 14th Amendment is summed up by Rep. Shallabarger, in the following words:

“Its whole effect is not to confer or regulate rights, but to require that whatever of these enumerated rights and obligations are imposed by State laws shall be for and upon all citizens alike without distinctions based on race or former condition of slavery…It permits the States to say that the wife may not testify, sue or contract. It makes no law as to this. Its whole effect is to require that whatever rights as to each of the enumerated civil (not political) matters the States may confer upon one race or color of the citizens shall be held by all races in equality…It does not prohibit you from discriminating between citizens of the same race, or of different races, as to what their rights to testify, to inherit &c. shall be. But if you do discriminate, it must not be on account of race, color or former conditions of slavery. That is all. If you permit a white man who is an infidel to testify, so you must a colored infidel. Self-evidently this is the whole effect of this first section. It secures-not to all citizens, but to all races as races who are citizens- equality of protection in those enumerated civil rights which the States may deem proper to confer upon any race.” ___ SEE: Rep. Shallabarger, Cong. Globe, 1886, page 1293

So, with regard to aliens who are not “citizens of the united States“, and especially with regard to aliens who have invaded a State’s borders, the 14th Amendment actually confirms Arizona is free to enact their own legislation dealing with aliens who are not entitled to the privileges and immunities as bestowed upon “citizens” of the united States. The exception to a state’s policing power is, that no person, alien or not, within a particular State, may be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law as determined under the State’s statutory laws which must be applied equally to aliens as they are applied to any “person“.

PROTECTING OUR BORDERS

Unlike Congress’ power “To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization”, meant to say who is and who is not a citizen of the united States, and there the power ends, our Constitution charges our federal government with the duty To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions

Those who point to Congress’s power over Naturalization and clamor in support of “comprehensive immigration reform” so as to have Congress reward those who have invaded a State’s borders with “citizenship“, thereby granting them the same rights and privileges of “citizens” of the particular state they are found in, are attempting to have the federal government subjugate those powers retained by the States under the Tenth Amendment by misapplying Congress‘s power “To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization” and are very much in favor of violating the very intentions and beliefs for which the power was granted!

No More Progressives!

May 5th, 2010
4:55 am

Danielle

May 4th, 2010
8:29 pm

Believe what ever you want, Danielle. Your obstinence is exactly what will draw attention when you ultimately do run the stop sign and get pulled over. If you’ve made a conscious decision to NOT carry any form of identification, how do you drive/buy a beer/write a check? Wal Mart ID’s everbody for alcohol and tobacco; what do you do then?

Not only are you a liberal, you’re on my “hammerhead” list. Nothing I say will placate you. You expect the entire Nation to change just to suit you. It ain’t gonna happen.

The Alamo was in 1836. It’s now 2010. Your Mexican “countrymen” have brought this on themselves by virtue of the invasion we’ve watched.

Qui habet aures audiendi audiat. Sagely advice from our Roman friends.

Chris Broe

May 5th, 2010
5:40 am

The GOP loves big government. To protect our coastlines from big oil. To patrol our borders for Mexican aliens. I guess you could say the the GOP is having their “Baja” moment.

Oh, and WIndows 7 was their idea.

just kiddin…….Welcome to the big tent democrats, you silly little repudlickan pudwits, what took you so long?

just kiddin’

John Nordman

May 5th, 2010
9:31 am

I have to disagree with you on this one as well Bob.
The new law doesn’t give the Police the right to pull anyone over for no reason to ask for proof of citizenship. Only after they have a reason to pull you over can they ask for the info.
Since our carrier Politions in Washington didn’t want to enforce the Federal Imigration Laws, Arizona decided to do it, at least for thier State. Kind of like the law that states that if your local law enforcement won’t keep the people safe the people may take matters into thier own hands.
(Of course you had better be able to prove it.)
Personnally I don’t think the Law goes far enough, we have become so politically correct that we as a nation are commiting suicide! It’s time to say enough!

June

May 5th, 2010
10:34 am

Mr. Barr, the only thing “mystifying” about this is the fact that it’s Arizona’s business even though everyone else has seen fit to add their two cents. So here’s mine: Can you say you approve of the invasion of our country by millions of terrotists? There is no difference in a Muslim extremist murdering Americans and illegal aliens murdering Americans. The end result is the same. Arizona’s bill, which is patterned on Federal law, needs to be implemented in every state in the Union. We either defend our country from invasion, or we wave a white flag which we’ve done for two decades. People who believe in the Constitution and who love their country will keep fighting. Those who are ready to wave the white flag…well, they can continue to pander to both and aid and abet in destroying our nation.

Thom Bing

May 5th, 2010
12:06 pm

If criminals are going to break into your house anyway why lock the door. Why not just put a sign up in the front yard saying “House unlocked come on in and take what you want”. What if me and ten of my friends decided to come and live in your house for as long as we want and even though there are laws against it they decide not to enforce them. Is that ok with you? That is exactly what ignoring illegal immigration is. A sign that says come on in and we will do nothing. When 20 mexicans take over your house you will be the first to call the police and scream for justice. There are 50 million in my house and I am supposed to do nothing.

Danielle

May 5th, 2010
12:37 pm

No progress, You obviously don’t care to listen to any of the points I’ve been making as to how this law has miles of room open for American’s to be unjustly ‘detained’. I am amazed many of you so blindly trust the police with much of your freedoms.

For the tenth time, I carry a drivers license when I drive… That is the only time it is needed here in TX.

BTW, I do not drink or smoke. And my debit card, I use a pin number so no ID needed.. We write checks when we send payment in the mail. But pay majority of bills via Internet. I do tons of shopping via Amazon. Have a package arrive about every other day, no ID needed. Go grocery shopping once a week as a family.. So my husband drives. The last time I needed to drive was when my son needed to be picked up from school early because he was sick.. That was in September and the school is just a few blocks away, so I could have walked if I wanted to. Point is, not everybody lives their lives exactly as you do… But even if ID were present, by the Video example, it doesn’t look like that would always be enough..

Also, if I were to try to purchase alcohol without proper ID I would not be arrested for doing so.. See the difference?

And I’m about as conservative as anyone can be. But call me a liberal, that no longer bothers me.. In fact it is now an embarrassment to be known as a republican. I guess I am with the liberals on this one.

Nicky

May 8th, 2010
4:30 am

i think the new law is great, what these illegal immigrants and people that support them dont understand is that their stealing our identities and working under names that are not even theirs. they want us to treat them fair but they are breakin our laws and not paying taxes most of them. unfortunately we have to suffer for their choices, it is not our fault their county is bad, you want to be a citizen pay taxes and quit making us feel bad for you, not the only one struggling.

Connie A

May 9th, 2010
2:47 pm

Why would any one want to boycott a state that simply wishes to enforce the law? Being in this country illegally is against the law. Why then should we attempt to penalize the state of Arizona for upholding the law. What’s the point of laws if they aren’t enforced?

ima

May 17th, 2010
3:51 am

First of all I think this law is not fair for the fact that I might be at risk of being stopped by the police just simply by the way I look?That for me is racial profiling and some what of an insult to me. Next I agree with Nicky in that there are many illegal immigrants who steal identities, and lie just to get financial and other benefits. But then there are many others who dont. In addition, I do not know what goes through Diane’s mind. She says she is hispanic, therefore someone in her family must have been an immigrant at some point right?And she is talking about the immigrants and their take over plans and I guess you are right because the prove of this is that you are here in the U.S.(for if you haven’t noticed you, yourself took over this country!)You are an embarresment to all hispanics.

Red AZ

May 17th, 2010
10:24 pm

Stand with Arizona! Maricopa County is ground zero for illegal immigration in Arizona – and there is a Special Election this year for County Attorney (District Attorney elsewhere) who will be responsible for implementing SB1070. The two candidates are Bill Montgomery, a West Point Graduate and career prosecutor who has pledged to enforce SB1070 fully and fairly and Rick Romley, who called for a veto of SB1070. Show support for Arizona and for SB1070 by donating $10.70 to Bill’s campaign. Everyone can afford it and it gives people a chance to show support in an active way. You can donate online at: https://montgomery2010.com/contribute.asp Let’s take a united stand for the rule of law!

ryan

May 31st, 2010
3:52 pm

This is a hot button for an election if ever there was one, but instead of overs stepping their rights as a state making laws that that make no sense “illegal to be illegal” work the laws you have better documents for workers to start! If they want to build a wall the do it but don’t stop until all the boarders are covered other countries you need to show papers but this county is not one of those if you like there ideas then go there but they also don’t have the freedom.
States taking over if the ferderal government can’t do something then call back the arizona troops invade mexico and raid their country see if those will work.
Hard times call for hard measures said by thoses that have giving up or never wanted the best we are a country made on dreams not reality we strive for the best locking people up because they are hired by greedy people braking the law on jobs many of you would refuse to work what a quagmire so sellrightousness.
Why didn’t you fight this hard when america started using another language other then english on offical documents. Wouldn’t that have made it harder for illegals forcing them to speak english what about the cubans wet foot rule but anyone else is deported. There are problems all around us stop blaming others and start fixing it! But with in the rights the law afords you. What if arizona had a kill on stight illegal law would that make murder okay what about the ones killed by accident because they were to tan? Is killing a bad word replace it with detaining infact replace illegal with the word you because anyone could be from another country look like a terrorist or be one. You are seeing a problem and letting your xenophoida get in the way because it can’t be your fail you didn’t do anything. I say find the steam of the weed not the flower

[...] addition, some analysts say Arizona’s legislation crosses the division of power lines between state and federal enforcement. Examining potential challenges to the law, the Wall [...]

byetheway77

June 22nd, 2010
5:10 am

Seems like a dilemma: jail an illegal immigrant for repeat offences of deport him. He may return soon after deportation or join one of the gangs or cartels in Mexico. Mexico should help secure the shared border that exists between us. The Mexican soldiers did rally at the border waving their guns in show of support for the illegal immigrants crossing over into the United States after a boy illegal immigrant was shot for throwing rocks at a U S Border Patrol agent. The Mexican authorities could make it harder for the drug runners by strategically placing their troops at the International Borderline.

byetheway77

June 22nd, 2010
5:13 am

The Fourteenth Amendment of the US Constitution might be changed if the combined Congress would do that. I suppose, since many illegal immigrants give birth in the United States, our Congress might re-consider Section One of the 14th Amendment. President Abraham Lincoln would have liked to leave the US Constitution the way it stands but the 14th was drafted after Lincoln passed away. I believe that the 14th amendment was ratified for protecting the rights of the former slaves, some who lived in the United States for generations, after the trauma of the Civil War that ended human slavery.

Tyler Rieves

July 2nd, 2010
10:25 pm

“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” This means that if the Constitution doesn’t have anything about enforcing immigration laws, the Federal government cannot step in. Therefore, any immigration law created by a State is Constitutionally valid.

dog

July 7th, 2010
8:19 am

wet back you love mexico so much then go home you f up your gov now you want to f ours up

Titaniavotress

August 22nd, 2010
8:43 pm

What is most troubling about the Arizona Law is the majority of the comments posted here about the very valid issues this article illuminates. I am an American citizen, born and raised on this soil. Most people, who commented in favor of the Arizona law are assuming that the police will be 100% correct in their selection of who to detain as illegal immigrants. As I stated, I am an American citizen, but when in Arizona I may be detained until I can prove it. How many of you carry your United States passport while traveling in the U.S. so you can prove to any law enforcement officer that you are indeed a citizen? How many of you American citizens could prove at that very moment, if stopped on the street by a police officer that you truly are a citizen? How many of you citizens carry your birth certificate in your wallet or on your person. How many of you want to do so or be subjected to being detained or arrested by law enforcement for not doing so? Let’s hope all of your family members and future grandchildren look “American” ,what ever that means to every random Joe Officer on the beat or you can be sure that, if this law stands, no American citizen is safe from Constitutional Rights violation. Bob you hit the mark. Unfortunately, most Americans, politicians included, are Tunnel Visionaries and fail to see the consequences to freedom of their support, actions and legislation. I believe it was Thomas Jefferson, who said it best, “Those who are willing to trade freedoms for security deserve neither.” God help us because this nation is full of people willing to do just that.

WALK MILLS

September 8th, 2010
11:51 pm

Odd that all this discussion about the Constitutionality of this States Law.
Read Article III, Section II, Clause 2; This issue can not be heard in a district court; The Supreme Court is the court of original jurisdiction and only they can rule on this States issue.

Luis V.

September 20th, 2010
10:15 pm

The problem with this law does not lie within the police’s ability to check for documents proving legal citizenship or right to be in the country. The problem does not lie in Arizona wanting to protect its borders and its citizens. Arizona has every right to protect its borders and keep illegal immigrants out of the country. The problem comes in when police officers are given the power to check for these legal documents by simply having, “lawful contact” with a person. Police officers should not be given that right. This opens the doors to all sorts of stereotypes. How can a police officer tell if a person is legal or illegal? They cannot do so by simply looking at a person. How do we know that a police officer won’t be driving around simply looking for someone to commit the smallest crime just to give them a ticket and check their citizenship status? We can’t preven these biases from occuring. If Arizona is concerned about illegal immigrants within the state then they should conduct a check for citizenship to all its citizens regardless of race, ethnicity, and skin color instead of opening up the possibility for police officers to racially profile a specific race of people.

Luis V.

September 20th, 2010
10:18 pm

One last thing, it is completely STUPID to think that an illegal immigrant will return to the United States and join a gang or cartel. You cannot stereotype a race like that. You cannot make the assumption that illegal Mexicans will join a gang. This is why History is so important; we keep making the same mistakes over and over.