Pagan worship at Air Force Academy

I agree Bob Barr and believe the blogger above most likely got up at 0500 hrs and began his usual daily habit of “Nine Before Noon.” That’s tokes to the uninitiated. He’s probably a Scientologist. Wait a minute! This blogger IS L. Ron himself posing as a blogger.

BTW: Second

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I am shocked at your position on this. Who is to say what religious practices can be openly practiced? If you allow open worship of a zombie god/human, why not other beliefs?

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I see you’ve dropped libertarian ideals and are back and redwing rebpublican bigotry, Bob. Guess its time for me to unsubscribe. Peace.

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Now, Bob, you’re seeing why the LP can never succeed in our country. Anthony, John Paul, and Sean, and those like him in the LP will never recognize that this is a Christian-based nation.

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Bob, this sounds like like something you chuckle at over a beer with friends. Easy for me to say, I have no deadlines but..

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Bob, you are being close-minded as usual. Pagans don’t worship the devil and molest kids. They see the divine in nature and (just like Christians) realize we are part of a larger universe. How would those qualities diminish a commanding officer…one who probably would value human life at least as much as, if not more,than someone who follows a “traditional” religion. And speaking of traditional religions, we see how well that’s turned out with the situation in the Middle East, Israel, you name it.

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I’d rather follow a pagan than follow a cannibal (catholic) or demigod in holy underwear (mormon.)

Religion: when your crazy beliefs make perfect sense, and other people’s crazy beliefs are obviously crazy.

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You’re right, Bob. Not to mention the fact that entering combat alongside the sworn enemies of God is never a good idea.

You have obviously stirred the Christ hatred in many readers. He who sits in the heavens laughs.

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Captain America–good point, because we are *not* a Christian nation. It doesn’t take much research to find out that George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin were vehemently opposed to merging church with state. It’s the religious right of modern times that has corrupted the original reasons for the founding of this nation. And like another poster said above, I too would rather be led by a pagan (most of whom value human life and all life on this planet) than a Christian zealot who can’t think for himself.

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Bob, just because some of us are open and accepting of all religious beliefs and don’t blindly follow doesn’t mean we are Jesus haters. I’m sure Jesus would be the first to respect anyone with other beliefs. How conveniently people forget that Jesus loved all humankind, no matter their financial situation, station in life or anything else that people who follow him today would persecute people for.

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Just the point I was going to make Isaac. Not my cup of tea, but since when did we require all religious people to worship like Christians? I don’t think libertarian is freedom as long as you agree with me.
As a matter of fact, the Air Force Academy has quite the record of forcing cadets to accept Jesus as their one and personal savior.

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I thought the post was a good one Bob.
Christian Nation vs Pagan Nation are missing the point. I believe most if not all the founders were Deists and envisioned ALL having the opportunity to worship however they choose.
I don’t see Bob’s post straying from that founder’s vision at all.

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Actually America’s religion is greed…isn’t that one of the seven deadly sins? I suspect Jesus wouldn’t recognize much of this place at all.

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I am a Christian, but I can think of a number of so-called Christians I’d hate to have leading me into battle. I don’t see religious philosophy as particularly important when the bullets are flying and the bombs are falling. There are nutcases and zealots in every religion (and political party), and none of them should be leading anyone.

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No wonder the USA is decaying so fast!

PS. Just a historical fact: the Continental Congress opened every meeting with a prayer to God as did the Constitutional Convention an wrote this fact in their meeting minutes. And for you unintelligent, God is a deity!

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Bob I’m not much worried about which God warriors follow..the Roman legions follow Mitra for hundreds of years and that worked out pretty well…War is its own religion.. “It is well that war is so terrible –lest we should grow too fond of it” Robert E. Lee

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As a Christian, I could care less what you worship. But the AFA taking steps to actually build a wicca worship ring or whatever you call it… That is what is disturbing to me. Not that you’d passively let it happen, but that you’d actively encourage it.

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- I agree with Sean Burke and Captain America (Marvel fan since
the age of five).

The “folk” that seem to think that America is exclusively a Christian
nation, in my experience, are clueless about our military.

Chaplains in the service branches cover several denominations –
Christian (who would have to cover Baptist, Pentecostal, Catholic,
Mormon, etc.), Jewish, and Islamic. The gravesites of fallen soldiers
at every military cemetery reflect these denominations as well.

Whether you think paganism is a religion is open for debate.
But religion itself is not a “one size fits all” belief, as many fringe-right
zealots seem to be convinced of.

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I’m pretty sure the Air Force Academy also has a chapel and come to think of it, a football stadium. Are you suggesting cadets need only worship certain gods? the irony in this non-issue is so amusing. the year-end “Christian” celebration of the birth of Christ has its orgins in the solstice rituals of norther European pagans. in short, Pope Leo (or was it Gregory) “took” the holiday from the pagans and claimed it as Christian (it is accept that Christ was born sometime in the Spring). but, as with all (OK, most) zealots and “people of faith”, why let the facts (science, physics, history) get in the way of a good story (and ANY relgion is just “a good story”). frankly, the idea of warriors praying before battle concerns me. next thing you know, Army recruiters are going to be “pitching” recruits with promises of 73 virgins…

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Okay Bobby B, I don’t have a problem with the rocked out amplitheater Pagan church but this thing with human sacrifices will require more thought before I can enter a critical review. Another double Jack please!

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oh, and one more thing for the “we are a Christian nation” crowd. there is no question our European ancestors were Christian (and pagan before that – see my earlier post). there is not question the Bill of Rights is dervied (in part) from the Magna Carta, which drew from the 10 Commandments. Christianity’s influence – the good and the bad – see BlackAirForce – cannot be ignored. BUT, despite the influence, our Founding Fathers saw the need to documment the importance of religious freedom/tolerance (the 1st Amendment, no less). the superstitions, beliefs and rituals of our forefathers have NO bearing on the 21st century. if you listen to some, we are fighting a “war” against a foe that seems to be “stuck in the past” when it comes to theology and social mores. I don’t know enought about Wicca or pagans, but what I do know suggests that they favor a “less is more” approach to worship.

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I like Mr. Barr and voted for him in ‘08 and would vote for him again. However, this Christian thinks Mr. Barr is putting the emphasis on the wrong syllable. Whether this nation’s military should install shrines for small religions is not the issue. The issue is whether we should have a military so huge that it enables formal attention to small religions such as Wicca or paganism.

Really. Our military-industrial-complex is SO huge that they can spend time installing religious facilities for one of the less popular religions in the US. THAT fact is far worse than the practice of a religion some may consider goofy. Our worship of the war-machine gives me far greater chills than some smelly hippies dancing around a rock-circle.

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Methinks Bob is engaging in a little good-natured rabble rousing. Context is the key to this thing. Everyone recalls the AF Academy has been in the spotlight for some rather aggressive proselytizing by faculty and students. The Academy not only has a Chapel, it’s huge and beautiful (in a modernist sort of way) and the centerpiece of the campus. Letting the fringe put rocks in a circle, somewhere in the half-million acres of woods around Colorado Springs, to dance around or sit on or whatever sounds like a clever compromise on the part of the school administration to mute counterculture grumbling about the Chapel, etc. No big deal — certainly not the weirdest thing going on in Colorado.
And for what its worth, I served with a lieutenant in Afghanistan who claimed to be a Wiccan. He drew strange graffiti, but was pretty much unobtrusive, otherwise. It struck me that he did it to get attention which, ironically, he didn’t get, because we had more important things to worry about.
Nothing to see here; move along.

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I find your lack of religious respect for a major religion of the world, disheartening. But I do agree expressions of any religion in a military setting are not to be fostered, or condoned.

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“Tolerance” means you “tolerate” someone else’s beliefs or opinions. It never means you elevate them to the same level as you own.

This “pagan worship” at the Air Force Acacemy is just one more nail in the coffin of a once great Republic.

“Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord”.

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The largest religion on wall street: Worship of the Almighty American Dollar

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Bob’s a chicken Shiite, imho, he would only engage in a courtroom battle, no blood or guts for him.

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Salt & Light, with all due respect to your views, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free excercise thereof…” You see, I don’t seek to “elevate” pagans to the same lofty level of Christians. Our Founding Fathers did. OH, and you are most certainly entitled to your opinion, but “elevate” is a subjective term in this instance.

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I don’t know what is more shocking… the reports of pagan worship at the Academy or the reports of evangelical officers shoving their extremist Christian views down the throats of their students.

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Bob!

An excellent example of Cherry Picking today. You’ve really outdone yourself, digging so deep.

Can you dig up some numbers for us relative to this? Some stats perhaps? A little perspective about the numbers involved here?

My guess is that you won’t, nor could you. Once again, you’re taking an isolated occurrance and generalizing it across a huge system as an example of a real problem.

Why? Dunno. That’s just how you think, I guess….still scared of the thing under the bed that never comes, yet willing to invest massive amounts of time and energy worrying yourself and others about it.

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Mr. Barr:

Please remove the Libertarian party link from your blog if you are going to keep on sullying its name with bigotry.

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They’ll probably get shot down. I don’t think the USAF has foxholes, but if it did, there would probably be “no Wiccans in a foxhole.”

Every service has its crazies; these are more of the same. They’ll fall to the back and wash out.

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An excellent example of why Libertarian beliefs work on paper but often fail in practice. The fact that you’d feel safer having one dilusion lead you rather than another speaks volumes. Myself personally, I’d rather be lead by someone who thinks the same way 7 days a week, not 6 + 1 mulligan of rational thought.

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This just in: Yale University’s “Skull and Bones” secret society has been declared anti-christian and pagan by the right wing jesus freak nut jobs. No more drinking red wine from Jeronimo’s skull you guys, or U R gonna go to hell!

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Chris thanks for your service !

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Now that it’s no longer 2008 I guess Bob can give up that whole Libertarian charade.

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and you thought the Mossad was good, ha, the Tar and Feather Party’s got their own ashes fer ash wednesday!

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Jesus just left Chicago…

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T0 The Tar and Feathers Party : As I said, “Blessed is the Naitin whose God is the Lord”. The reverse of that would be “Unblessed is the nation whose God is not the Lord.” That’s the direction we are headed ………………

To Fix-it: Christians believe in the Trinity (a Triune God – a concept the human mind cannot really comprehend anymore than “eternity”).

“In the beginning God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) created the heavens and the earth.” Therefore, Christianity predates everything because Jesus in God incarnate !

“Jesus, the same yesterday, today and forever”.

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I’m confused Bob. Since we (yep, military here.) already have churches that fit your obviously narrow views of acceptable religions on ALL military installations, where do you wish to draw the line? Catholic and Baptist ok, Methodist bad? Perhaps Islam ok, Buddhism bad? Perhaps you could take your sorry used to claim libertarian wishy washy and keep it to your self? That’d be great, ok? You embarrass the rest of us who actually believe in liberty.

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I don´t have any issues with pagans in the armed forces. But I don´t see why any body that´s not pagan has to pay for their house (ring) of worship. As for battle worthy leaders, well I would imagine and hope that they´re fighting for The United states of America, and their freedom to worship as they please.These people in our armed forces did not join to fight for their specific religions they joined to participate in the defense of the greatest idealogical country in the world´s history. And if they achieved a leadership position through merit, then I would follow them or fight beside them. Bob, you got this one wrong, I think if you reconsider, you may feel compelled to retract.

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I’d be more concerned about depending on a group that had unsuccessfully tried to convert me. I wouldn’t want to have to rely on someone who thinks I’m evil because I won’t join his church. It’s that whole fundamentalist “if you ain’t one of us, you’re against us” mentality.

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Bob doesn’t seem to recall a story a few years back how cadets were being forced to attend Bible study classes by their commanders. I guess this would be OK, because it is Christianity.
BTW, look up Patton’s religious beliefs.

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The Air Force is letting Wiccans in? Damn! Next thing ya know they’ll be letting in Jews and blacks….Huh?

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Sucking the bloof of a god, wearing funny robes and swinging a smoking mace, failing around on the floor like a snake and babbling incoherently. And your laughing at people walking around two stone rings. HA HA HA HA jerk.

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I’m embarrased that I voted for you.

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I see another libertarian has now joined the Christian right wing.

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Pagan (noun) -

1. one of a people or community observing a polytheistic religion, as the ancient Romans and Greeks.
2. a person who is not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim.
3. an irreligious or hedonistic person.

Please do not cherry-pick the definitions of words in order to justify your rants. It should also be pointed out that Wicca is not necessarily an historical pagan religion but is in fact a relatively new form of nature worship incorporating elements of several different pagan religions.

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Damnit Bob, what kind of Libertarian would write an article like this? You don’t believe all people should have religious freedom? Just people who have beliefs close enough to yours?

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Bob, you must be considering another run for office! Looking to get donations from the far right?

What makes one man’s myth better than another?

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@ DRB: Let me address your points as you raise them.

“I first heard of this a few weeks ago from someone actually IN the military. His concern was exactly as you say, and it seems that the grest majority of those he has contact with in the military agree. Based on that, I am inclined to think that this effort may be undermining our best military efforts and I don’t think that the military is a good place for division, not for the military itself, and not for the individuals within it.”

As a former member of the military, an adherent to a non-Christian religion and a defense contractor, let me say that making such an assumption based on a discussion you had with someone who is “in the military” is a ignorant as Mr. Barr’s decision to use a partial definition to justify his argument. If such were the case then the military command would not allow such activities on post. The only people I know who get truly upset about this are civilians who hold to Christian beliefs.

“These young men and women signed up as a part of a military entity of “One Nation Under God” and I believe it reasonable that they should expect that special interests NOT under God, would be discouraged, or at the least not encouraged.”

I most certainly did not sign up for a military entity of “One Nation Under God”. Just because Eisenhower can convince Congress to add that little piece of jingoism to the pledge in the 1950’s does not make it a national policy. Even were that the case, whose God? The God of the Abrahamic faiths? The Kami of Shinto? The Asgard of the Astaru? The Bodhisattva of Buddhism? The Deva of Hindi? Members of those religions can be found in the military today serving their country. Are you telling me that we should violate the Constitution by denying some of them their faith in order to raise one God above the others?

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Oh yeah. On a side note, the other houses of worship(on base) were paid for with tax dollars. Why not this one? Who get to decide who is worthy? Bob Barr?

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That was 1999, Mr. Barr. And you TRIED to take the Army to task for supporing religious pluralism (which is a mandate for the military chaplaincies). In your ignorance our our faith and practices, all you did was stir up a sensational flurry of bigotry and hatred. I find it hilarious that you claim to be a Libertarian. And the fact that you are a consultant on civil rights for the ACLU has influenced me to drop my support for that organization. Just an historical oberservation: Our Fort Hood Open Circle (SWC) is still alive and thriving. Who is occupying your former seat in Congress right now?

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The food was great, the tree plugged in, the meal had gone without a hitch
Till Timmy turned to Amber and said, “Is it true that you’re a witch?”

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Mr. Barr is pretty pompous. Apparently the cadets can spare time to break the record for most air guitar players.

“Apparently, the people over at Guinness World Records take the playing of imaginary instruments quite seriously, or so found the Air Force Academy Athletics department as they planned their most recent and rather wacky promotion: Rock for the Cure, an attempt to break the world record for largest air guitar ensemble during half time of the Air Force Women’s Basketball game against New Mexico on Saturday”

http://www.gazette.com/entertainment/air-94261-world-force.html

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Isn’t war all about human sacrifices? Whether we’re dealing with goblins and ghosties or just your typical Christian soldiers trudging onwards, the military is all about the killing of other people. And the Christians are far more insufferable.

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I just want to set the record straight on two things here.

First: The Air Force Academy is not funding this construction. The project is being undertaken by a Wiccan Airman, who has already had to tear down one circle that he built because it had gone through the appropriate approvals process. This new circle has gone through the appropriate approvals process for its location, and is being entirely funded by private citizens.

Second: God is God, in whatever form you believe that to be. For Christians, a triune god is a requirement (though there is no mention of this in the Old Testament – thank you, second College of Cardinals c. 1400s) For some Wiccans, God is a dualistic force (the Goddess/God), for satanists (yes, I mean satanists, not luciferains) – they are their own god, for luciferians – God is Satan. But whatever name you give to it, or pattern of approach you use to understand the divine, it is incumbent upon you as an individual to make your own choices. No one can tell you what to believe or how to practice those beliefs.

And finally, in passing: God doesn’t care whether you believe in Her or not. Just as I don’t care whether or not you agree with me.

Grasshopper

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This article is almost too dumb to be offensive. Any valid opinions he might have (not that I really saw any) are null and void because of his obivously and severely limited understanding —and arguably his unwillingness to understand— a broader meaning of “pagan” and of the Wiccan religion.

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From Bru:

“I don´t have any issues with pagans in the armed forces. But I don´t see why any body that´s not pagan has to pay for their house (ring) of worship.”

Who do you think pays for the academy (christian) chapel? As a taxpayer, I do, and I’m Buddhist. Is somebody going to reimburse me? Of course not.

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I always marvel at the performance of an atheist in the arena of his written words. The temerity of his doubt, gnawing away at the wooden cross like mutant termites immune from pesticides, ant-eaters and those chimpanzees that fashion tools out of sticks and plunge them into termite nests and have a nice lunch.

Monkeys don’t have souls. Atheists don’t have souls. Monkey see, monkey do. See no evil. Hear no evil. Speak no evil.

Hear, Hear! A barrel of monkeys typing on a million typewriters for a million years could produce the gospels, you know.

So enjoy your moment of self aggrandizing theology. We’re all impressed! Some of us are converted. Some are praying for your soul.

Me? I’m grinnin’, and knittin’ a shawl, and every now and then I cry out, “Guillotine!”.

No wait, that was for Marie Antoinette. never mind. If the truth be told, at 59, I’m considering renouncing my catholicism and joining the pagans. I wonder if any of the pagans who join hands and dance around the circle of stones naked have an older sister for me? Um, sir? Um, Tell your sister that I like long walks on the beach, chick-movies, and world peace. (I’ve got beads too. So hush hush. I owe you one bro.)

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Mmmmm Mmmmm roast mutton, food of the Gods. Pass the mint jelly please.

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I would die to defend there beliefs as much as I would whatever yours are…the Bill of Rights, and this was the first thing written in response to the Constitution, clearly states “Congress shall make no law respecting an Establishment of Religion” So I assume that whoever wrote that believed that whatever religious belief or practice one held in private was of no public concern.
I’ve never been in the military, but I would hope in a life or death situation the private affairs of my CO would be the last thing on my mind. I mean if all I could think about in such a situation were things about my CO’s personal life then I would have a defect as a solder.

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Why do we always miss the forest for the trees. The actual question should be why a tax funded university should be catering to ANYONE’S faith. There are surely several places of worship near the Air Force Academy. While I do not share the spiritual views of pagans, I respect their right to worship what and how they choose. However, I do not think that special considerations or meeting places should be created for ANY faith–Christian, Jew, Muslim, Pagan, etc.

No one is making these students attend the Air Force Academy. If your faith clashes with the lack of worship accommodations, choose to go somewhere else for a college education and career.

Libertarian philosophy does not align with forced acceptance of any faith or lifestyle. Nor does it align with the condemnation of a faith or lifestyle. Live and let live also means that you don’t give favor.

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Shame on you, Bob. There is no room for this sort of bigotry in my view of Liberty. The “Barr 2008″ sticker will come off my car, and if you ever get the nod from the LP again, that will be the last time I renew my membership at either the state or federal level. This isn’t the sort of principle I want espoused by my Party of Principle.

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Mr. Barr:

I am a pagan priest. I’m rather disappointed by your characterization of the Neo-Pagan religion. It is sad that you feel the best way to judge a religion is by looking in the dictionary and choosing the third or fourth definition of the most general term describing it.

The term “pagan” is derived from paganus, a Latin term meaning “country dweller”. It refereed to the fact that people in the country tended to keep the old ways longer than than the more sophisticated members of society who adopted monotheism. It’s sort of a synonym for “hick” used this way; ironic since, in Western society, that negative connotation has been transferred to Protestant Christians.

It is also sad that connotation equally misrepresents both pagans and Christians, not just in the validity of their religious practice, but in the thought with which they approach that practice.

Pagans are not necessarily hedonists, though I’ve known a few who are. Very few have “little or no religion” but have strong, deep seated beliefs concerning the nature of the gods and of ethics and of how we should treat one another. Certainly, some self professed pagans match the description you present. Lumping all pagans into that category, however, is akin to lumping all Muslims into the small pool of suicide bombers; it looks good in the headlines, but is a fallacious bit of slander, nothing more.

If you believe that I and my fellow pagans are nothing more than a few chuckle heads who like to party and pass it off as a faith, I fail to see what setting up a couple of circles of stones in any way is an gross over-accommodation. If you see us as members of a valid, First Amendment protected religion, I understand your objection even less. In any case, I would encourage you, should you have to sum up the beliefs of a group of faithful worshipers in a few words, that you look at the first accepted definition or perhaps even ask one of those worshipers how they would define their own faith.

Peace.

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Oh, please! Why so many thick skulls when it comes to the military?! The main concern one soldier can legitimately have about fighting alongside another soldier is if that soldier is an EFFECTIVE soldier. Surely, sexual orientation, race, gender, nationality, etc., and especially religion matters little if that other soldier can save your @$$!

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I knew the libertarian schtick wouldn’t last too long; you’re just too much of a Christian conservative ideologue, wanting to tell other people what Gods they can and cannot worship, based on nothing more than your own personal bigotry and prejudice.

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Huh what?! Pagan=Hedonism? Only if you’re using the term in a slanderous, ethnocentric tone. The etymology is a rural civilian connected to the gods of pre-christianized Roman. Pickup a etymological dictionary at your local bookstore or library before heading onto the Internet with the big boys and girls.

I also fail to see what is any more hilarious about a nature-based religion worshiping outdoors, than a death-cult (Christianity) singing and praying to the effigy of a dead guy on a cross indoors. Let us know Mr. Barr.

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Ra is out today, shining brightly in the blue sky….All bow before the glory of Ra.

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Hey, Mr. Barr, which is more insane?

Dancing around some rocks or sending a bunch of young guys to their deaths for whatever trumped up purpose your politician bosses decided was “worth it”?

I wonder how many people have gone to their deaths because their commander held crazy beliefs that were in the norm, like, oh, I dunno…Christianity…

Is it safe to say it’s in the billions?

Seems to me that rock-dancing is just pissing in a hurricane at that point.

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You know this little article is full of misinformation and an biased opinion. Regardless of this mans’ opinion we are guaranteed freedom of religion as stated by the Consistitution. My greatgrand father, grandfather, father, my self and now my Pagan Army SSGT with four combat tours under his belt serve and fight to protect this mans right to post ignorant statements, as we also fight/fought for our rights to practice our religious beliefs as we see fit as long as they harm none.

So, Mr Bar, when spouting your opinion, kindly do some research and get the facts straight so you don’t sound so misinformed. Bigotry is bad enought without being ignorant of the FACTS.

Blessed Be,
Laura
Pagan USAF Vet

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[...] Libertarian Presidential loser Bob Barr wrote in the Atlantic Journal Constitution a hilarious piece of commentary about how he is shocked SHOCKED I TELL YOU that the military still allows pagans to serve openly in [...]

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[...] tide you over till then, check out this article on the pagan witches and warlocks running the US military. [...]

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I just wanted to thank all the Pagans and non-Pagans who support us here at the USAF Academy. Freedom of Religion is a great thing to have here in the United States of America…even if former Congressmen don’t believe in it.

Obtaining the Stone Circle was a great victory and we can’t wait to dance around our circle of stones in the woods carrying lighted candles.

Many Blessings to you All,
Brandon Longcrier -

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Christian nation? From the founding fathers themselves:

It always helps to look at the words of those who were the actual founders and creators of this nation two hundred and twenty six years ago. Witness the truth of the matter.

I have examined all the known superstitions of the Word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the world …

The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind … to filch wealth and power to themselves. [They], in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.
Thomas Jefferson

The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes; fools and hypocrites. To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson

Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins … and you will have sins in abundance. I would not dare to dishonor my Creator’s name by [attaching] it to this filthy book [the Bible].
Thomas Paine

For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor to tolerate error so long as reason is free to combat it.
Thomas Jefferson

It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God.
Thomas Jefferson

Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson

Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon than the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.
Thomas Paine

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.
Thomas Paine

My country is the world, and my religion is to do good.
Thomas Paine

Let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religions.
George Washington

Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be deprecated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society.
George Washington, letter to Edward Newenham, October 20, 1792; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 726]

There is nothing which can better deserve our patronage than the promotion of science and literature. Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness.
George Washington, address to Congress, 8 January, 1790

Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause.
George Washington, letter to Sir Edward Newenham, June 22, 1792

…the path of true piety is so plain as to require but little political direction.
George Washington, 1789, responding to clergy complaints that the Constitution lacked mention of Jesus Christ, from The Godless Constitution: The Case Against Religious Correctness, Isacc Kramnick and R. Laurence Moore W.W. Norton and Company 101-102

If they are good workmen, they may be from Asia, Africa or Europe; they may be Mahometans, Jews, Christians of any sect, or they may be Atheists….
George Washington, to Tench Tighman, March 24, 1784, when asked what type of workman to get for Mount Vernon, from The Washington papers edited by Saul Padover

To give opinions unsupported by reasons might appear dogmatical.
George Washington, to Alexander Spotswood, November 22, 1798, from The Washington papers edited by Saul Padover

…I beg you be persuaded that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution. George Washington, to United Baptists Churches of Virginia, May, 1789 from The Washington papers edited by Saul Padover

As the contempt of the religion of a country by ridiculing any of its ceremonies, or affronting its ministers or votaries, has ever been deeply resented, you are to be particularly careful to restrain every officer from such imprudence and folly, and to punish every instance of it. On the other hand, as far as lies in your power, you are to protect and support the free exercise of religion of the country, and the undisturbed enjoyment of the rights of conscience in religious matters, with your utmost influence and authority.
George Washington, to Benedict Arnold, September 14, 1775 from The Washington papers edited by Saul Padover

—-from http://www.anotherperspective.org

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Given the recent practices at the AFA: anti-semitism, racism and sexual assaults on female cadets (I now refer to the AFA as the “Christian-Rapists Flight School”) a little tolerance of pagans is a trend in the right direction.

Now if we can only get the cadets to keep their anti-semitic comments to themselves, and to stop sexually assaulting the female cadets, we might be on to something.

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Good grief. Well, tables are slowly turning. I just gave a lecture at 3 different universities on Christian Intolerance, and Mr. Barr was one of the stars discussed. I’m Pagan, part of that definition being Cherokee, and I agree with Black Air Force as well (think missionary schools, Trail of Tears, etc.). Historically, Christians have never played well with others. It’s difficult to be tolerant of others while your heel is pressing down on their necks, and you have the one and only “truth” and only YOUR God is “real”, etc. Common sense, common courtesy should rule, but as the saying goes, some people have just enough religion to hate. Where’s the love of Christ, Bob? Who is your neighbor? And if non-Christians can pay for Christian chapels, Bru, and Christian chaplains, etc., non-Pagans can support Pagan Circles as well. Fair is fair. One or the other, all or nothing. And when ANY prayer that holds one religious tradition over any other is forced upon anyone who is not of that tradition, and no consideration is given equally to others – not fair. Not equitable. People like Bob Barr should stop trying to legislate intolerance and ignorance, stop trying to legislate personal beliefs, and focus on legislating behaviors instead. As an ex-cop, I arrested people for what they did, not what they were thinking of doing. I know, I’m ranting on several topics raised in these blogs a bit erratically, but the bottom line is that Christians like Mr. Barr have none of my respect, and just as he was utterly impotent to stop Pagan practice at Ft. Hood when he came up against Dr. Oringderff, Christians in general have no power over us in general. As John Morley once said “You have not converted a man by silencing him”. Some Christians are nice, but many need to get a life. I have NEVER been so arrogant, presumtuous or bored as to meddle in the beliefs of others. Many Christians cannot say the same. The inherent arrogance of being “right” and owning the only “truth” there is gets in their way. We’ll not be silent any longer. And we are everywhere. Get used to it. Lianna Costantino

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God damn…I’m disgusted that I actually voted for you. If I wanted a close-minded fundy for president, I woulda voted for Palin.

*shakes head*

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I feel his comments about the stone circle divisive. I feel that the soldiers should be able to practice openly their religion. I don’t say this because I happen to be Pagan myself. I would be just as upset if it were someone with the believes of Mr. Barr. This is not the first time he’s come out against Pagans. Like John K. says, what makes one man’s myth better than another. Mr. Barr’s attitude is exactly what the founding fathers were trying to avoid. For those of the “this is a christian nation” crowd, Jefferson was a deist. Futhermore, what if it were your beliefs that were being treated as second tier?

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Bob, you make me sick! It was a pleasure seeing your ass get the boot out of washington. your career in politics is dead. no one gives a sh&t what you think, Wiccans still worship in ft hood 10 years later, now wiccans have a place in the AF, wicca also has their pentacle used on graves stones for wiccans who lost their lives fighting for the freedom for you to write this bigoted letter. when supporting the troops doesn’t mean support christians troops only it means actually what is say support the troops all troops of all faiths, wiccan soldiers aren’t putting their lives on the line to be discriminated by ignorant idiots like you.

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Mr. Barr’s error is the logical fallacy of equivocation, where the inappropriate definition of a word is used; in this case substituting the contextually incorrect definition “has little or no religion and delights in sensual pleasures and material goods” and “who practices hedonism as a religion” with the contextually accurate definition “a person who follows a polytheistic or pre-Christian religion.”

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Yeah, dancing around stones is simply stupid. Waiting in line to get a cracker – now THAT’S religion! Kneeling down every 10 minutes – sounds like religion to me! How about being dunked in water – yep, must be religion.

Get the point? Or, maybe since this is a ‘conservative’ blog I will need to spell it out since you guys just don’t get the most obvious things….

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It really horrifies me that I voted for you. I won’t make that mistake again. You fake libertarian. I don’t vote on people based on opinion, but based on a candidates overall platform. However, the religious intolerance that you just spewed is completely unacceptable. My understanding of the libertarian Platform is the government has no place in religion. So why do you think you can dictate what religion our soldiers can be?

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To Salt and Light

In the beginning there was Muspell (full of fire and blinding light) and Niflheim ( fill of ice and snow), in between was Gin-nun-ga-gap. The melting snow formed the ice giant Imir. He feel asleep and from his armpit came the first woman and the first man.
This is the begininng of the world, makin the Asatru the “right” religion.
You should read In The Beginning, by Virginia Hamilton.

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Every one of you Libertarian party people who voted for Barr are sheep – the wolf only changed his clothes.

When I heard the LP say Barr was their candidate, I asked my friends who are members of the LP why, given his actions against the Ft. Hood Open Circle in 1999.

“Oh, he apologized, it’s all good, don’t worry about that!”

None of them were Wiccan or Pagan – they didn’t have to worry back then that Bobby-boy’s actions would endanger them.

Mr. Barr, you are a disgrace.

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I can’t wait till the Associated Press gets a hold of this.

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So just who would you follow into battle, Bob? You had plenty of opportunity to serve in the Vietnam years, when I daresay there were no Wiccan officers, and probably no Wiccan enlisted either. I guess you got too busy with the college deferrments and political theories and living on Dad’s dime. Like 99% of today’s chickenhawk Republicans, you’re military experts and your warriorhood only works remote control via other people’s kids.

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Too bad the person who wrote this article doesn’t have the journalistic integrity to look up the etymology of the term “pagan”. What a joke to the profession.

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I love Christians! Remember when Jesus rode the dinosaurs? That was my favorite part of the Bible.

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“But I have to tell you, if I were in the Air Force and was being commanded by an officer who practices hedonism as a religion (another part of the definition of “pagan”), and who dances around a circle of stones in the woods carrying a lighted candle, I would be more than a little worried about following him into battle.”

Nice to see your cultural sophistication, Bob. The use of pagan as a pejorative (as in hedonist) is not to define it in a way that’s meaningful to practitioners. Furthermore, if dancing around outdoors disqualifies one for military leadership, then I guess you’ll be purging all the Jews next, since at Simchat Torah, dancing outdoors in celebration is part of the religious ritual. And let’s make sure to ban the use of candles in all our churches and synagogues because they are “hilarious.”

One more demonstration that Bob Barr is an intellectual lightweight, a superficial grabber at publicity and someone who goes for the cheap applause line.

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If you don’t know what neopaganism is about, don’t make up stuff and pull it out of your fundament, Bob. Ask a real neopagan. Ask a Wiccan.
I suppose any religious practice looks silly to those who don’t practice it. Muslims kneel and bow to their god. Catholics play with beads and light candles, and follow men in dresses. Pentecostals “dance in the spirit.” Buddhists do a variety of things in the name of their religion.
What do you do, Bob? If you have a ritual, would you like it ridiculed the way you’re ridiculing ours? Are you in a position to point fingers? I think not.
Bob, you don’t have to like anyone else’s religion–or nonreligion. But ridiculing it as you’ve just done is beyond the pale. You owe neopagans and Wiccans in particular an apology. This has nothing to do with political correctness, it has to do with manners, and the appalling lack of them you’re showing, as well as your own illogic. Grow up, Bob. Your myth isn’t better than ours. It’s just different.

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Fascinating how it’s expected that the non-christian officers are expected to not only tolerate Christianity, but also accept it, and yet non-Christians are not afforded even the slightest tolerance. There are more of us than many of you know. The USAF decision is to be applauded. It’s a victory for the thousands of Pagan men and women who serve our country.

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Yes sjcr, and I hope the thousands of Pagans out there who are still in the closet will now decide to come out and stand up for their rights and demand what’s rightfully theirs.

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So, do you think it’s hysterical that a bunch of people gather up inside a building and pretend to eat flesh and drink blood? How ghoulish! I wouldn’t want to follow such a person into battle! And, yes, I’m Pagan. No, I don’t have a religion. Religions are for programmable robots. I have a spirituality and a code of ethics. That means I do the right thing because it’s the right thing, not because I fear some vengeful god punishing me for doing otherwise. No religion is more valid than another except in the minds of the people practicing them. In the end, none of them are totally right or totally wrong because they are subjective and shaped by the people in them.

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“The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion…” – John Adams, 2nd US President

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When I google; “Wiccan Terrorist groups” I get nothing. When I google; “Christian Terrorist groups” I get an entire list! Army of God, Christian Identity, Lambs of Christ, Ku Klux Klan, and many more. These people have been committing domestic terrorist acts, killing other Americans for years and get no publicity. But the lack of attention they receive has not kept every blind, some of us know how evil this religion can be. Some of us would much more readily trust a pagan commanding officer, than a Christian one who might turn around shoot down one of his own… Bigotry, hatred and exclusivity are a learned behavior, Mr. Barr. I was an accomplished seminarian, serving an internship toward priesthood, when a Christian Terrorist group threatened to firebomb my Church because they didn’t like the way we were running things. That was my first lesson. Your bigotted and hateful post here has been my latest lesson, but I’m sure it won’t be my last. Every day I see another reason to marginalize Christians out of my life.

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i would love for the military to boot out every non christian, just so the waterheads who think that the military is a christian group would see just how few there really are in there in there, and then they should boot out the catholics, and then the mormons and then the lutherians, and then ,,,, and then ,,, and then,, and then,,,

i guess bob has no plans to run for office again because this kind of hate will insure that he never gets a seat in any office.

i am so glad to know that the 15 years i spent protecting your rights didnt count because i dont bow down to your god,

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@Salt & Light: No one is mocking your triple deity–only those of his followers who insist that they are the only “right” ones, that they have the only spiritual truth, etc. Such arrogance and disrespect for others doesn’t exactly endear you to others.

I thought your Messiah taught humility and “the last will be first.” Not to BE served, but to SERVE. Is that missing from your Bible, perhaps?

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“Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone. Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life: if it has been honest and dutiful to society the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one”. ~ Thomas Jefferson

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Jose Rizal: “No one has a monopoly of the true God, nor is there a nation or religion that can claim, or at any rate prove, that it has been given the exclusive right to the Creator or sole knowledge of His Being.”

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Bob- Have you ever criticized the Air Force Academy or the military for forcing evangelical Christianity on the students? This practice has been repeatedly reported in the past.

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I had to laugh at what Ralph said. I may not be in the military, but if I was I would rather work with the person who is the best LEADER, not the most religious OR christian. And as you can probably tell by mu name, I myself am Pagan. I think that all branches of the military should respect ALL faiths….

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this ‘wiccan’ thing should be stopped ASAP! and everybody should worship my main man Lucifer, heil satan!

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Dont forget that religion that has all those snakes on a plane thingie. What about that? Snakes would be a good thing in battle. You could scare the bediddle daddle out of a enemy captive and get him to sing like a canary.

Like a bunch of priest candidates at a retreat. The bishop asks them, “What have you been doing all night?” The reply: “Army Training, Sir”.

or something equally idiotic.

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Enter your comments here Wow, such ignorance coming from an educated, worldly man. Shame on you, Please don’t forget that Freedom of Religion means ALL religions, not just the ones YOU recognize as religion. I respecy you right to free speech, but you would do yourself favor by showing a little tolerance and respect. People have died so that we may practice our religion the way we see fit.

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I am pantheistic and Buddhist(which makes me pagan). I have 3 points to make to Bob and my fellow readers.
1st. My Air Force family members share similar views to mine. Their service to their country is as honorable as anyone elses. In a free country, like ours is supposed to be, anyone is free to their religious beliefs or lack of beliefs as they are comfortable with. (They ARE tired of Christian religion being shoved down their throat EVERYWHERE in the Air Force.)
2nd. If the US pays to build a place of worship for Christians, they should for everyone, if not it would mean that the govt. is endorcing one religion over others and THAT is unconstitutional. But seriously folks, do you think a circle of stones cost as much as a church building. Be glad they didn’t want a temple! BTW, Knowing pagans, I imagine that the cadets did the work on this themselves.
3rd. Buddhist and Native Americans are pagan, and yet are not known for their “silly hedonistic” religious practice. Also, by one of the definitions of pagan; Hindus, Taoist, The non-Christian or Muslim African traditional religions, etc. are pagan. They are not so much of a minority, even in this nation, when taken as a whole.
Lastly, Barr, (who is from my Religious Right neck of the woods), demonstrated more than once his bigoted REPUBLICAN, not Libertarian, ideas years ago when he wanted to remove Wiccans from the military. My Wiccan military (Air Force) friends all freaked. They swore to uphold the Constitution and felt as though they were being betrayed by Barr and his ilk.
I have read and agreed with much Barr has written here and in CL, but I have never quite believed that he really believed in freedom due to these religious bigotries that he has.

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I thought you were supposed to be a libertarian. Clearly you don’t understand the concept. Go back to the republican party and you can surely find some psychotic christians to join in your religion bashing. While you are at it why not start gay bashing too?

I cannot believe you were ever associated with libertarianism. You make us all look bad!

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Don’t get me wrong, if someone “has little or no religion and delights in sensual pleasures and material goods,” which is the definition of a “pagan,” then I say live and let live. – Barr

Where the hell did he get his definitions from? Paganism’s definition for those that actually own a book or have access to the internet these days seems a little different-
1. (Christian Religious Writings / Theology) a member of a group professing a polytheistic religion or any religion other than Christianity, Judaism, or Islam
2. a person without any religion; heathen
adj
1. (Christian Religious Writings / Theology) of or relating to pagans or their faith or worship
2. heathen; irreligious
[from Church Latin pāgānus civilian (hence, not a soldier of Christ), from Latin: countryman, villager, from pāgus village]

Ya know, you think that with age would hopefully come wisdom. Good to see Mr. Barr continues to set fine examples of ignorance and bigotry many others will no doubt continue to follow.

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Pagan: a person who does not belong to any of the major world religions. This too is a definition of pagan! You should really get your facts straight before you spout your impressions of ’sacred space’ and ritual practice. If you know anything at all about religious practice, you would know that all of the rituals practiced by ‘book religions’ have their roots in paganism (from that Latin “country dweller).

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I’d just like to add a few more definitions to some additional terms that are very misunderstood today.

Many people associate Pagans with the Occult and/or Cult. Let’s define those terms real quick.

Occult: “beyond the range of ordinary knowledge or understanding”. 

To believe in God, miracles, or anything else that can’t be explained by science alone is “beyond the range of ordinary knowledge or understanding”, which includes every single religion / spirituality on the planet.

Cult: “a group or sect bound together by veneration (or belief) of the same thing, person, ideal, etc…“

Anything (the military, your job, your religion / spirituality, etc…) could easily fall under the definition of “Cult”. So when you get ready to write your next blog, don’t be so quick to throw words around you don’t fully understand as you clearly did in this one.

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Isn’t it just awesome that these guys are fighting and dying for you to have the freedom to call them hedonists and for you to belittle their religion?

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Bob must be gearing up for something. He knows the Fundies will throw money at anyone who can convince them that their Jesus is under attack.

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F*** you Bob Barr.
One persons belief system does not determine their combat abilities.
To all you people who agree, F*** you too. Just F*** you.
You’re the reason people kill each other. You’re the reason why this country isn’t progressing.
You people need to get off you’re f***ing high and mighty holier-than-thou attitude and accept the fact that people, y’know, think differently than you!
Get out of the f***ing 1600’s people. Welcome to the 21st century, where blacks can own property, women can vote, and you can be any religion you want.

And by the way, to all you moralfags who are too sheep-like to look up the definition of ‘Pagan’ for themselves, Bob Barr strategically uses the SECOND definition listed of pagans.
In the Webster definition, the FIRST one is: 1; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome) http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pagan
So yeah. F*** you. And don’t bother responding to this, I most likely will never look at this page again, so just rage at it.

And yes I’m Pagan- not Wiccan- and i’m going to pray about you to the devil while I’m sacrificing babies tonight.

If you didn’t realize I was joking about the devil and babies, f*** you for being an idiot.

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One more comment-
He thinks Pagans can’t fight wars?
Who does he think ruled the planet until ‘Jesus’ was ‘born’?
The Barbarians, the Celts, the Vikings, the Goths, the Vandals, the Greeks, the Romans, the Egyptians, the Mayans, the Aztecs, the ancient Chinese. Some of the most war-torn savage people. They ruled the planet until Christianity came along.
They were all Pagan. And they liked to frolic naked in the woods with candles and rocks and with whatever other misconception people have.
And before people comment about how they’re gone now and how Christianity won- they didn’t BEAT the Pagans. They force-converted them.

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ugh, couldn’t edit but spening=spending and the word an shouldn’t have been in there.

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How did Bob Barr ever get the libertarian nomination? He is a neo-con and this article is nothing but lame. Imagine how the world would be if Bob Barr got to opportunity to outlaw anything he doesn’t like or in this case understand. Way to respect freedom of religioun Bob, get out of politics or at least go back to your neo-con republican party and stop pretending to be a libertarian.

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And by the way even my atheist friend thinks you’re an idiodic, self centered, prejudiced, unenlightened prick. His words not mine but I agree totally.

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“if I were in the Air Force and was being commanded by an officer who practices hedonism as a religion (another part of the definition of “pagan”), and who dances around a circle of stones in the woods carrying a lighted candle, I would be more than a little worried about following him into battle”

Interesting comment from someone who, as far as I can see, has never followed anyone into battle, or even onto a parade field…

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I think it’s unfortunate a Libertarian has joined up with the far right wing Evangelical fringe on this one. I guess if we want to know who the bigots are we need to really pay attention to voting records and public comments like this when it comes time to vote. Party affiliation seems to be something one can change like clothing depending on the look they’re going for to attract the most money or voters. For the record I’m Pagan and proud (and really dislike your ignorant remarks about Pagan religions) and I’m sharing your ignorance and bigotry with all my pagan friends.

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Well, I guess I have to ask then, Mr. Barr… Who WOULD you follow into combat? Seems to me like you were the right age to serve in the military in Viet Nam? Especially when there were all those good, upstanding, white Christians leading troops there. How was it that you managed to get out of serving? Since when does being a coward qualify you to criticize the brave? Since when did you earn that right? How many coffee machines did you have to shoot in order to rise through the ranks of the CIA? How many bags of weed did you have to burn up in order to survive college? I find it ironic that those that tend to speak up the loudest concerning things like religious tolerance toward religions other than their own are ALWAYS the people with the biggest doubts about their faith… Those who speak loudest about morality and decency are ALWAYS the most immoral and disgusting people. Congratulations, Mr. Barr! You are no exception!
As a 21-year service member (who is STILL serving, by the way,) AND a practicing Pagan, I’ve served in some pretty scary situations and followed some very good leaders and some very bad ones. And let me tell you that RELIGION makes a difference in terms of leadership ability. Most “religious” leaders I’ve encountered, simply don’t understand the difference between right and wrong from an objective viewpoint, and are incapable of rational decision-making, unless they are capable of setting their religious beliefs aside (which MOST are decidedly NOT!) Nearly all of them have no understanding of the freedoms that are guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States… And these are supposedly the leaders of those of us that are sworn to support and defend it! Several times, I’ve questioned the leadership abilities of religious types, who simply couldn’t understand that the “welfare of their soldiers” doesn’t mean trying to forcibly convert them, no matter what their religion’s doctrine says…
As a member of Congress, you supposedly took a similar oath. Judging by all the hard work you have done stepping all over basic freedoms and Constitutional Rights, it certainly shows how little your oath has meant to you.

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“Shall we suffer a Pagan to deal with us and not suffer him to pray to his god? . . . . It is the refusing toleration to those of different opinion which has produced all the bustles and wars on account of religion.” – Thomas Jefferson

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JEWGAN,
If your Chaplains aren’t accommodating you, then you definitely need to take it up the Chain-of-Command, but keep in mind that there may be better and more private places for you and your group to meet other than Chapel facilities. If you have office space near where you work, then that might be an option for you. Here at the Air Force Academy, we meet in a conference room for now. Of course once the weather gets better and I finish the Circle, then we’ll be meeting up there as much as possible. Just try to keep a good relationship with your Chaplains, and work with your leadership to see if there’s another place where you and your group can meet.

And if all else fails, look me up and we can discuss your options.

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Thank you, Mr. Barr. Thank you for once again opening your mouth, and confiming that I made the right decision in 2008, to vote Republican and cast my ballot, so that I, among many, helped send you back into the private sector, where you are FAR from the levers of power in this great nation. I note with amusement the tag line at the top of this web page regarding The Barr Code… but shouldn’t it read instead: “Where willful ignorance, bigotry, and self-serving ideology reveal that Bob’s talking out of his @$$ AGAIN!”

To all veterans and active duty personnel of the Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force, and Coast Guard, regardless of your religious or spiritual affiliation, or the lack thereof… thank you for your service to this great nation, thank you for your sacrifice of your time with your families, for your defense of Liberty, for willingly stepping into harm’s way so that every American can say what they wish, worship how they wish, and do what they wish for a living without having to get anyone’s of Bob Barr’s ilks approval or sanction of those decisions. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart for defending my life, and the lives of every member of my family. Words fail me now…

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Worried about following a neo-pagan into battle? Stop and think: Norse berserkers and the pre-Christian Celts were considered some ominous foes in their time. And they were basically pagan cultures, just to add to many examples of this already. I wish people would just stop and THINK about history.
Personally, I don’t care what someone believes if they’re competent and respect my right to my own personal beliefs as I respect theirs. The military is no place for religion, in my opinion, in terms of dictated policy that soldiers should believe one thing or another. That is a slippery slope to becoming some of the very things our founders rejected outright, not to mention the foes we are fighting who are using twisted religious rhetoric.
From what I’ve read, there has been basic support for neopagan/Wiccan worship in the military for quite a long time (Army Chaplain’s book has information, for instance). These folks may have a space for worship and there has certainly been backlash about that–I seem to remember a Fort Hood incident where a newly installed altar was destroyed by presumed Christians. An outrageous and intolerant act that would have been all over the news had this been a Christian altar.
Neopagan worship is no big deal, just different. It is protected by the First Amendment, plain and simple. To my mind, this is more a case of that which some don’t understand soon becomes demonized, kind of like the Dark Ages.
These are people who find strength and sustenance in their worship and understand people have a personal relationship to their god. As one acquaintance once said, “Polytheism includes monotheism, but monotheism doesn’t include polytheism.” Therein lies the problem. Neopagans by their very nature WILL be tolerant of others who worship differently. If only the monotheists weren’t so busy making sure everyone knew they were right.

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I’m actually very conservative on most issues, and consider myself a Libertarian based on my views. Religion, however, is one of the three issues I am not conservative on, being a practicing pagan myself. This is exactly the attitude that contributed to me not voting for you in the last presidential election.

No one has an issue with providing a church or chapel for Christian soldiers to worship in. If there is a significant number of pagans on a particular base, I see no reason why their requests for a place to practice their religion shouldn’t be accommodated. Pagans are citizens, voters, and taxpayers to.

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Bobby boy, you have not a clue what you are talking about and to use the Air Force Academy as an example?? Have you not been paying attention of past coercive CHRISTIAN proselytizing there? Yes, please read up on what the Pagan religions really are…and, oh yes, study the horrific and brutish ways your Christian ancestors did away with them as Christianity was FORCED into central and northern Europe. Your diatribe here is an ill-informed joke.

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Bob, you might want to educate yourself on a topic before you open mouth and insert foot. I echo those who stated they are ashamed to have supported your run in 2008.

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I’m not going to bark out Bob Barr’s unfortunate stupidity, since so many others have already done it. Instead, I’m going to do what I’ve read only one other person did, and I don’t recall their name (sorry about that).

To you who put your morals aside-regardless of your religion- to protect me, my daughter, and my rights as an American citizen, thank-you. With all that I am, thank-you for the personal sacrifice you must make whenever you’re forced to use your weapon; thank-you for the emotional pain of being away from your families, thank-you for the physical pain of your injuries, and here’s a thank-you to the dead who have given your lives throughout the history of this country so that I, today, may wear my pentagram openly. Because of these brave men and women, I don’t have to lie to my child and tell her “this is just a different way of attending Church” when I cast a circle, I can walk out my front door without a cowl and not fear being stoned or beaten to death, I can drive and have a car in my name, my daughter can recieve the best education I can afford to give her, she’ll someday be able to drive, vote, hold a job, own a house, and practise any religion that best fits her if one at all. Thank-you to all branches of the US Military.

I’m talking out my ass, but this is something I believe: when war stops being ugly to you, you are damned (religion has nothing to do with this). Because of this particular belief of mine, for all of your sakes I hope war will forever be ugly, and I also hope that there will someday be no need for it. Another thank-you to those who witness and commit the ugliness of war so pussies like me don’t have to. *hugs*

As far as the sacred circle in Ft. Hood…. Sure, tear it down for all I care, so long as you tear down the monotheistic chapel as well. If you won’t tear down the chapel, then you shouldn’t tear down the sacred circle.

~M. J. Fowlie

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Couldn’t disagree with you more Bob, you un-American prick.

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What a waste of space! Isn’t there ANYTHING more important to talk about?!! This is a Jerry Springer Show topic, not something newsworthy…

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Bob Barr is yet ANOTHER Republican Chicken Hawk who has NEVER served a day in the military. As a former USAFA Cadet with over 20 years in the Air Force; Dear Bob really has little to say about the silly circle of rocks on the Academy Grounds. Here is my idea: Call in Controlled Demolition to implode the Cadet Chapel and GET RELIGION OUT of the military!

People like Bob Barr have too much time on their hands with their “Do as I say and not as I do” mentality.

Bob Barr is damaged goods.

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Bob Barr’s failed libertarianism:

http://open.salon.com/blog/jay_nunenkamp/2010/02/18/bob_barrs_failed_libertarianism

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Mr. Barr,

You seem like an intelligent man, but you would have be deliberately ignoring reality to equate paganism (a slippery thing to define, I’ll grant you) with hedonism. In other words, you are being deliberately disingenuous. The moral tenets that underpin Wicca, for example place far more of a burden on the individual than those of Christianity, for example. No, there isn’t a set list of things “thou shalt not” do, but there is an all encompassing charge to be mindful of the consequences of once’s actions. No doctrine of forgiveness by being “washed in the blood of the lamb”, no get out of hell free card. You are responsible, always, for what you do or fail to do. Now, does that sound anything like the carefree “hedonistic” life that you have painted paganism to be?

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My comments ran overlong for this space, so I put them in the form of an open letter to Bob Barr here: http://cuumbaya.blogspot.com/2010/02/open-letter-to-bob-barr.html

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Barr needs an editor. He has extraneous commas after military leaders in the first graf, in “witchcraft, was” also in the first graf, in “new level, in” in the second graf, and after the parentheses in the third graf.

I think Bob Barr’s worst nightmare would be a gay Wiccan Arab as a general.

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Mr. Barr, whatever happened to religious freedom, one of the founding principles of our country? Why should having a pagan circle (by the way, you incorrectly defined “pagan”) threaten anyone? Wouldn’t the Christians who desecrated the pagan circle be the threatening ones? Would you have the same response if someone desecrated a Christian church? Or is there only freedom of religion if you happen to agree with that religion. Mr. Barr, why do you hate America and it’s freedoms so much?

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I voted for (and volunteered for the campaign of) Mr. Barr in ‘08- and I would do it again. The above post shows the difference between tolerance and agreement- and is totally libertarian (big and little L!). Just because I tolerate your silly religions (any of them) doesn’t mean I can’t think they aree, well, silly.

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Frankly any and all religion should be “barred” from government expenditures. Pun intended. I don’t think this was on my approved list of tax expenditures. WTH? Keep christianity out as well. People should practice these things at home…not a work environment, paid for compliments of the american taxpayer.

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I have one thing to say. If you are going to allow Christians to have “places of worship” on military bases, in the line of “all men are created EQUAL” by default, you have to allow ALL religions the same opportunity to worship…Oh and it might say “One Nation Under God” but it never specifies which one. If you expect everyone to acknowledge and tolerate YOUR religion, shouldn’t you do the right thing and respect someone else’s?

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I feel perhaps the words Pagan, Hedonism, Wicca is used contemptuously and pejoratively by the Western religionists, practicing some form of “Desert Religions”. It is a misfortune. As it portrays the complete ignorance of the Eastern Religious practices which is the mother of all the religions of the World. Secondly, it also appears that the organised form of ‘Religions’ practiced today is more a business than a religion, which is the root cause of all these evils in the name of ‘Religion’. Therefore the ‘Religion’ is transformed into a cult of Politics preached in complicity with Religion. That is where the things are going wrong.
Dr. O. P. Sudrania

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I would like the Christofascists who agree with Mr. Barr to answer me one question:

Since this is a “Christian nation”, what should be done with all of us non-Christians? Seriously, I want you to actually exercise those higher cognitive processes that you neglected on the orders of your god and actually explain to me in detail what you think needs to be done to enforce the “Christian nation” mindset…since you apparently feel that such was intended to be the law of the land, I’m genuinely curious to know what you think should be done about those of us who are citizens and happen to worship other gods.

Note please that I am not holding my breath waiting for your reply, because I know that it will never come.

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I run the Pagan group at the AF Academy and even though Bob Barr probably hasn’t read any of our comments, I’ll go ahead and post this anyway.

The following is the working description of Paganism that I’ve come up with from the research that I’ve done over the past few years.

Disclaimer: One can never speak for all Pagans due to the wide range of beliefs and I’m no exception. I’m only posting about what many or most believe in.

Earth-Centered spirituality (Paganism) has been around since the beginning of time and has been practiced by cultures the world over. It is unclear when the term “Pagan” (Latin “Paganus”) was first used, but according to historians, the 4th Century seems most plausible. Even though the term is fairly new in terms of how old the Earth is (~4 billion yeas old), the spiritual aspect is not. For example, the oldest evidence of supernatural worship comes from the remains of what archeologist are calling a female Shaman who was found in what is now the Czech Republic and dates back to ~30,000 BCE. You heard correct, I did say “female Shaman”. It is actually thought that females may have been the spiritual leaders before men. This was most likely due to the fact that women were (and still are by many) seen as magical beings. They were seen as such because they had cycles, their bellies grew, and then they created life. Modern Earth-Centered spirituality is very similar to ancient and modern-day Shamanism and Native American spirituality and it would not be uncommon to find Earth-Centered practitioners (Pagans) who incorporate Shamanism and/or Native American practices into their own practice. Each (Shamanism, Native American, and Earth-Centered) have their own way of doing things, but are similar because they all see the Earth, Plants, Trees, Animals, and every other living thing as spiritual or divine.

Like many other faiths out there, Earth-Centered spirituality is also made up of many different traditions (denominations). Take Christianity for example. Christianity is the umbrella term that many different denominations such as Catholic, Baptist, Church of Christ, Lutheran, etc… fall under. The same is true for Earth-Centered spirituality. Paganism is the umbrella and various traditions including but not limited to Wicca, Druidism, Heathenism, Celtic, Egyptian, Stregheria, and many others fall under that umbrella.

Most Pagan traditions involve the worship of both Gods and Goddesses, but not all. Some traditions of Paganism only worship one God or Goddess and others may not worship Gods or Goddesses at all. Instead, they may find that they have more of a conneciton with nature, the Earth, the Universe, or just energy in general. Pagans may be all over the board with the way they all worship, but being able to worship whoever or whatever works for you is what makes Paganism so wonderful. This path is a very personal path, but many still choose to gather in groups to add a sense of community to their worship practices.

Mythology, folklore, and legends are very common among Earth-Centered practitioners and the psychology of spirituality plays a very important role as well. For example: Many believe that Gods and Goddesses aren’t “real”. Their energy and what they stand for is real, but they themselves are not. Meaning that many don’t believe that there are these puppetmaster like beings in the heavens pulling our stings. Instead, many of us believe that in order for the ancients to better relate to the things happening around them, they created myths to help expalin things more clearly. This is when Gods and Goddesses were created. And when they were created, they were given names and faces, which personified them so that people could better realate to them. These faces and names still remain today and many of those ancient Gods and/or Goddesses are still called upon by Pagans all over the world. A large number of Pagans believe also believe that the Gods and/or Goddesses reside within every human being and that calling upon them is basically looking within yourself for the answers that you seek. Accessing the Gods / Goddesses can be tricky though and is where vehicles such as medition, prayer, ritual, etc… come into play.

Many people believe that Pagans worship the Devil, but that couldn’t be further from the truth. Then again, I guess that all depends on what you think is the Devil. Do Pagans worship the Devil described in Christian mythology? No. But if you’re Christian and you believe that people are Devil Worshippers just because they worship anything (Mother Earth, Nature Spirits, etc…) other than the God of Abraham, then I guess in your own little world that you’re right. We believe that the Devil is just another myth created by a faith group to personify evil. Is the Devil real? Definitely, but only to those who believe in it. Some traditions of Paganism (Egyptian) do have concepts of final judgment like in Christianity, but others do not. Most Pagans believe in rebirth and/or reincarnation of some kind vs. final judgement, so eternal salvation and/or damnation isn’t really talked about that much in the Pagan community.

Some faiths claim to be the “Truth”, the “Way”, etc…, but not Paganism. We do not claim to have all the answers. We only worship in ways that feel right and good to us and if that should ever change, then chances are, so will our practices.

As you probably gathered already, Earth-Centered spirituality involves having a connection with the Earth. Many also strive to have a similar connection with the rest of the Universe as well. Each tradition under the umbrella of Paganism practices differently, but having a connection with and seeing all things as blessed and interconnected could be seen as a common theme that is shared between most Earth-Centered traditions. This connection with all things is many times accomplished by incorporating the sacred Elements of Earth, Air, Fire, and Water into one’s spiritual practice. There are many Gods, Goddesses, Spirits, Animals, etc… associated with each of the four Elements. Becoming one with those Elements is how many connect with the fifth Element, which is Spirit. These five Elements are represented in the Pentacle (Upward pointing Star with Circle around it). Many assume that the Pentacle is a symbol of Devil worship, but again, that would be an extremely wrong assumption to make. Each of the five points of the Pentacle represents one of the five Elements and the circle surrounding the Pentacle represents the connection between the Elements and eternal life; much like what a wedding band represents. It is no coincidence that the Star is a perfectly balanced object.

The Wheel of the Year is a modern term used to describe the cycles of the Earth over a year. It is made up of eight holy days that many refer to as Sabbats. It is debated which Sabbats were celebrated by whom and how far back, but many modern-day Pagans choose to celebrate them all. Two of the Sabbats are Solstices (Yule and Midsummer/Litha), two are Equinoxes (Ostara and Mabon), and the other four (Beltane, Lughnasadh, Samhain, and Imbolc) mark other important and sacred times of the year. Sabbats follow myths that explain how the seasons come and go and may even be acted out like a Play during rituals. The rituals that are performed by Pagans to celebrate the Sabbats can be very elaborate or very simple. Some people choose to practice alone, where others may form small to large groups called Covens, Groves, Circles, etc…

Circles represent infinity, interconnectedness, and even protection. For these reasons, Earth-Centered practitioners have been using Circles as places of worship for thousands of years. Prior to starting a ritual, many Earth-Centered practitioners will cast a Circle, which is done to symbolically create a sacred place for worship and protection against all things (energy, spirits, etc…)negative or unwanted. Other faiths perform similar rituals using sensors with incense or maybe even holy water to “cleanse” their places of worship.

Outdoor worship circles have been used since ancient times in many places around the world and by those of many spiritual traditions. Some of these ancient circles, such as Stonehenge, Castlerigg, and Avebury in England, are among the outdoor worship circles used for present day spiritual services. Many of these outdoor worship circles are found throughout the United States. Some, such as the Bighorn Medicine Wheel in Wyoming, Cahokia Henge in Missouri, and Newark Circle in Ohio, are pre-historic and have astronomical alignments as is the case with many of the stone circles of old Europe. Most outdoor worship circles presently in use in the USA have been created within the past one hundred years and are used for congregate worship services and passage rites, including weddings, baby blessings, and funerals. There are several types of outdoor worship circles, including stone circles, woodhenges, sacred groves, and labyrinth circles. Some outdoor worship circles are part of facilities of religious institutions, some are part of private homes and estates, and others are part of institutions serving the public, including campuses, prisons, hospitals, military installations, art centers, and botanical gardens. Virtually every tribe of the Native American Nations has or had its own tribal sanctuary or sacred landscape. In virtually every country in Europe, our ancestors erected megaliths and constructed stone circles as places of worship and religious celebration. As we study, adopt, and bring the religious practices of our ancestors into contemporary relevance; we too have begun building sanctuaries in natural settings.

Brandon Longcrier -

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Mr. Barr, I find it sad you are willing to belittle so many faiths while demonstrating a knowledge pool consisting of stereotypes. “Pagan” is an umbrella term for many (typically) earth-centered faiths, such as Wicca, shamanism, etc. When we come together with open minds and mutual respect, we are able to see and appreciate the inherent similarities in all our various traditions and faiths. When our minds are closed , it’s all too easy to treat others outside of our religion with disdain and mockery; however, we then condemn ourselves to perpetual ignorance.

Our soldiers who choose to utilize the worship area for followers of Earth-centered religions participate in religious rituals that are no “stranger” than Christian rituals. One reason Christians were initially persecuted in Rome: their fellow Romans thought they were cannibals – eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Christ. It’s a shame those Romans hadn’t been open-minded enough to learn from the Christians what they were doing and why. I hope one day you will allow yourself to learn about Earth-centered religions.

My (Earth-centered) faith teaches me to have compassion for all beings. It can be difficult, I fall short. But I practice it daily and find I am a happier person for it. I thank you, Mr. Barr, for today’s lesson.

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These comments go on and on! has anyone discussed the inherent conflict of being a christian and being a soldier? or being an adherent to any religion for that matter? last time i checked most religions explicitly point that killing is a sin/wrong/shouldn’t be done. And isn’t killing people the main purpose of an army?

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I am in disbelief that someone who claims to be a “christian” is so forthright in the public eye with VERY UN-CHRISTIAN views! Point- lying is a sin, right? Well, “hedonism” is not nor has it ever been part of the definition of “pagan”! Matter of fact- “pagan” , since time immortal, has ONLY referred to – country dwellers who were not among whichever mainstream religion was prominent at that point in time. Christians were in the realm of pagan worship during old testament days! And really- is worship in a circle outdoors really worse that putting a grown man in a dress, having him walk around ( like a god) placing hands on people to “bless” them, and lighting incense while observing a cannibalistic ritual ( necessary for redemption) ? Have you forgotten the primary tenet of Biblical teaching— Do unto others as you would have them do unto you?

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You can take you ideas and stuff them. I’ve been quite enough and all wiccan/pagans have.Christians got in a prominent place by speaking up,force and scare tactics. Its all true, look it up. Its in history records. The country was founded not that only Christians could be the only religion, but to have freedom, of religion, ideas, and so forth. I for one like that some people value the old religions. everyone but the higher power was given free will. To tell good law-abiding persons that they must not think for them selves, be sacred, and under control of only religion is a sad, sick and scary thought. I love differences in things, if we were all the somehow sad the world would be. Everyone has a right, no duty to be them selves and love what they love with a passion. I happen to be a High Priestess of an eclectic wican/pagan coven. Everyone is different here, but even love all of my coveners just the same. I also, love and respect my family members who are other faiths for the are human. everyone one weather they are wiccan or Christian are this and should all be thought of as our bothers and sisters. We as people should not look at each other and define each other as a color, a religion, a sex, a whatever, but as a unique human being who needs shelter, water, food, and love.and then peace who speed along the lands. For we would have nothing to fight about. its a petty and sad. Let go of the hate, embrace the change, let love in and you’ll see how good the world can be.
Blessed Be…High Priestess Char Norton

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Sir, Your own fears and ignorance of something you know nothing about is scary. Having served for 27 years now in the US Army as a Pagan I believe this is a right that we should all fight for. Who are you to suggest that your religion is superior to another? It will be a great day when bigots such as yourself are absent from the face of the earth. What scares me more than anything is to have to go into battle with some self righteous bigot as yourself.

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Mr. Barr
I am not a pagan, and find the entire belief system a bit silly. However your post demonstrates a depth of ignorance that is simply shocking, but I guess since you were in congress I should expect you to be clueless about things you ponitificate on.

Pagan literally means mutliple deities. Like the Romans and Greeks. It does not mean ‘“has little or no religion and delights in sensual pleasures and material goods’ nor does it mean ‘hedonism’. I know being in congress you were never required to actually know what you are talking about, but sure you (or an assistant) can find a dictionary?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pagan

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What a moron!!! The guy doesn’t even have a clue what the word pagan means.

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So Mr. Barr wouldn’t follow a Wiccan into battle because he thinks they’re too flaky. Just who WOULD you follow to war, Bob? You came of military age during the height of the Vietnam War, when there were lots of good, solid, white Christian men in the officer corps.

Where are all the pictures of you toting your M-16 around the jungles and rice paddies? Oh, that’s right, you were back in California in college flip-flopping between the Young Democrats and the Ayn Rand crowd, then the CIA. You must have had some hair-raising encounters with bad coffee in those situation rooms, things that would chill the blood of any Tet or Hanoi Hilton survivor.

As always, the draft dodgers feel the most compelled to speak about warriorhood….

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Umm… I’m not in the military…. heck, I’m not even American (and honestly, people like you make me more and more grateful for the fact by the day)… but if I WAS in the military, American or otherwise, I’d honestly follow anyone who proved themselves to be a good leader, even if they were of the type who partook in symbolic canabalism every week (seriously, you think us pagans dancing round a circle is creepy, have you ever taken the time to consider that Christian take bread and wine, call it the blood and flesh of the demi-god they worship and then EAT it? Dude, that’s actually kinda sick).

I’m being facetious, I realise that. There’s no call for it, really. But seriously, stop being a hypocrite. Live and let live, as you say, and let it not be empty words. Belief systems have no bearing whatsoever on the leadership qualities of any particular person.

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I knew before I voted that you were a bigot posing as a progressive. I am so glad now that I didn’t waste my vote.

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For all of you out there hitting the “this is a nation of god” track… god is a concept or ideal not a title. Pagans are not godless, we are god-ful (and goddess-ful) as we recognize deity is revealed according to spiritual need and not all of us have our spritual needs met on the same path. And for those worried about who paid for the stone circle… who paid for the chapels and other Christ-centric worship places?

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Perhaps Mr. Barr should ask a few self-defined religious Pagans what “Pagan” means — instead of pulling up bias definitions from who-knows-where (and not providing references…..).

Perhaps he should stop calling people and practices “hilarious” without bothering to talk to practitioners and trying to understand them.

Perhaps he should learn to show a little respect for his fellow human beings — especially ones serving in our armed forces.

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You disgust me. I am a PAGAN, and I think you area complete idiot moron who dosen’t know the first thing about Paganism or life for that matter. You need to either get a brain or stop this stupid blog.

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“I’m sorry, but this truly is hilarious. Don’t get me wrong, if someone “has little or no religion and delights in sensual pleasures and material goods,” which is the definition of a “pagan,” then I say live and let live” Bob Barr
R U SERIOUS??? It seems to me that political types like YOURSELF are more materialistic than any pagan i know. For someone who has tried to run for president or even has any involvement in our American Government should possible get more education before opening one’s mouth, or at least get a proper dictionary. I have to agree 100% with Natalie.

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Mr. Barr, what is this? A wolf in sheep’s clothing, a Republican disguised as a Liberatarian. What, since you think yourself a walking dictionary, is the definition for liberty, then? The US Constitution was built under freedom of intolerance to religion, and for freedom to practice any religion of your choosing-NOT the freedom to practice any religion that is only a branch of Christianity. I disagree with other religions, too-Scientology, Catholicism, and Chritianity, but I would never twist around the actions of these followers to make it look as if it were something that these practices are not, and I would never look down on them for the religion that they practice when leading a soldier into battle (or being that soldier) when they are defending my right to be free, and your right to put your feet in your mouth-and I mean that literally. You, sir, have placed both feet in your mouth, with such a derrogatory comment toward the majority of the votes in your party. Forming everywhere are facebook pages and petitions to make sure that you no longer are able to run for president. Anyone displaying so much hate and intolerance has no leg to stand on. You have set people’s images and tolerance of us back at least one hundred years-shame on you.
At least these pagans ARE serving in the military, you may want to consider what you’ve done to have the right to say something like that.

Furthermore, the definition of pagan is not “devoid of religion” (I believe you were referring to atheism-that was what you were looking for, not paganism), although it may say this in the bible; it does, however, refer to those of us that are devoid of Christ, that we practice the old religion in which we appreciate the life and beauty and lessons in everything around us. We have Gods, Goddesses-we are not devoid of religion, it is just unlike your own, in that we believe in love, we belive in respect for everyone and everything around us, and we believe that there is no need to bash another’s religion (especially-and not because-they do a good enough job bashing it themselves, such as yourself, Mr. Barr). To be so closed-minded and blind to the fact that at least these people are serving-if they were so inclined to be nothing more than a tree hugger, then they wouldn’t even be there in the first place-when the entire nation to this day is still pissed at Bush for this “needless” war. At least they are there and defending you and your rights.

Shame on you. The Liberatarian Party deserves a voice that isn’t so mocking, such as your own. Someone that is not so arrogant and ignorant. You are not the face of the party that I believe in, the one that believes in liberty and justice and fairness to all, under whichever god they choose to serve. The Republican in sheep’s clothing MUST be silenced before his words are known to the wrong person, before the libel and slander suits are filed, because they can be. How montrous and disasterous of you to be so unkind, so shameful. To be so hurtful to a mass of this country that supported you and your efforts, that believes in your party. What’s next, gay bashing? Jew hating? You disgust me, sir.

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That’s fine if you don’t practice another’s religion, but what gives you the right to impede on their freedom to do so? Your ignorance is both astounding and deeply saddening.

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AMAZING!!! Yet ANOTHER “ex-congressman” who has never BEEN in the military!!! Imagine that!!! Lets see…I presume, being a “congressman” that you are even “college educated”. Which means you took a class on world religion. Which would have taught you that PAGANISM, Heathenism, whatever you wanna call it, existed WAY before Christianity. I bet you even celebrate “christian holidays” never wondering what a rabbit and eggs has to do with “Easter”…what a christmas tree has to do with the birth of a “savior”. Before you trip over your ” my religion is the ONLY religion ethos”, do consider that, you might actually be incorrect in your thoughts and/or misguided opinions. By the way…I AM PAGAN…I DID serve my country for 21 years in THE United States Air Force..AND my supervisors did NOT criticize me because I “danced around fires”. They ADMIRED me for my beliefs and told me thats why I was in the military…to protect religious freedoms.

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[...] Full story. [...]

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This post is hopelessly offensive. You are obviously ignorant to what a pagan is and what we believe.

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Pagan, wiccan, blahblahblah. Don’t you people ever touch down to reality? Scientology has more credibility than you kooks. Why don’t you just call it The Divine Church of Renaissance Faire Dungeons and Dragons for the Overweight and Underbrained? If you weren’t so damned funny you’d be sad.

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I had an individual like you in my platoon once. I was reassured of the Marine Corps values while watching my Christian Marine BROTHERS police their own ranks and force this maggot to do push-ups untill his heart exploded. You insult Christiandom, and my Brothers and Sisters in the Armed Services. You’ve never served, I fail to see the relevance of your opinion. Can a Pagan make a good commander ? Oh, I don’t know, ask every Roman General before 33 AD. I suggest you get a library card.

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I’m 23, I’m in the Air Force, and I’m Wiccan. My shop has no problems with me, my friends and family know and dispite some being dedicated Christians I am completely accepted. I have many Earth Based and Pagan friends who are ALSO in the military (all branches). Also, the younger troops in my shop come to me and look to me for sound information on how to make a repair. Are you reading this properly? I AM IN THE USAF AND COMPLETLY RESPECTED DISPITE MY RELIGION. We are united as one nation under God. No wheres in there is “Christain God” “Muslim God” “American God” etc. Just “…under God”. It’s a two hundred year old quote, remember why we seperated from England.

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I am both surprised and amazed at how tolerance and diversity are our new religions. I’m a non-evangelical Christian and “tolerate” other religions, but I fully believe in Christianity. Overall, I’m not a tolerant person and why should I be? When you start dividing the country into multicultural, multiracial, mulit-religious factions, you no longer have a country…but, a Babylon of sorts. Diversity is NOT our strength, but homogenity is.

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