Pagan worship at Air Force Academy
A few years back, when I was in the US Congress, I took the Army to task for permitting the practice of Wicca on its bases, including at Ft. Hood in Texas. After speaking with a number of officers and military leaders, and meeting with several former military who adhere to the practice of Wicca, I was convinced that a belief in or practice of witchcraft, was not necessarily incompatible with the good order and discipline essential to a military lifestyle. However, one might legitimately wonder just how far such tolerance should extend.
The US Air Force, at no less a prestigious location than the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, has taken the notion of religious tolerance to a new level, in creating an outdoor worship area for pagans. The site, apparently sacred to pagans, consists of an inner and an outer circle of large stones. I’m sorry, but this truly is hilarious. Don’t get me wrong, if someone “has little or no religion and delights in sensual pleasures and material goods,” which is the definition of a “pagan,” then I say live and let live.
But I have to tell you, if I were in the Air Force and was being commanded by an officer who practices hedonism as a religion (another part of the definition of “pagan”), and who dances around a circle of stones in the woods carrying a lighted candle, I would be more than a little worried about following him into battle.
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330 comments Add your comment
Doubting Thomas
February 23rd, 2010
1:33 pm
I’m also sorry I voted for you in 2008, Bob. I thought being a Libertarian means you have tolerance for other people, that is, allowing them to live their lives how they want as long as it doesn’t violate anyone else’s rights. I really don’t think that the pagan worship you describe is any sillier than a bunch of people going into a large, opulent building dedicated to a man who was poor and glorified being poor, lighting up candles in front of a statue of a dead guy nailed to a piece of wood, and then symbolically eating the flesh and drinking the blood of this dead guy so they think they can live forever. See, Christian rituals can sound silly too.
I was debating whether or not to register as a Libertarian or an independent, and after reading this post I’m thinking about shying away from the Libertarian party. If this is what they truly are all about rather than accepting people for their differences, then I don’t want to have any part of it. If I were to join, I would only hope that you’re not their nominee for president again.
Kirsten
February 23rd, 2010
1:52 pm
Umm… I’m not in the military…. heck, I’m not even American (and honestly, people like you make me more and more grateful for the fact by the day)… but if I WAS in the military, American or otherwise, I’d honestly follow anyone who proved themselves to be a good leader, even if they were of the type who partook in symbolic canabalism every week (seriously, you think us pagans dancing round a circle is creepy, have you ever taken the time to consider that Christian take bread and wine, call it the blood and flesh of the demi-god they worship and then EAT it? Dude, that’s actually kinda sick).
I’m being facetious, I realise that. There’s no call for it, really. But seriously, stop being a hypocrite. Live and let live, as you say, and let it not be empty words. Belief systems have no bearing whatsoever on the leadership qualities of any particular person.
Sorceress Morrin
February 23rd, 2010
2:03 pm
Freedom of Religion means ALL Religions. Not to pick and choose which religions get recognized just because of any book. By the way Jesus wasn’t christian either.
Shannon
February 23rd, 2010
2:09 pm
I knew before I voted that you were a bigot posing as a progressive. I am so glad now that I didn’t waste my vote.
Jon
February 23rd, 2010
2:12 pm
Mr Barr, what you have posted here offends me to the nth degree. I am currently serving in the US Navy. Have been for almost 5 years with no trouble whatsoever. The fact that you are an AMERICAN above all else, and are basically calling for Wiccanism/Paganism to be denounced by today’s military is blantant ignorance. I was part of a pagan/wiccan group onboard the USS John C. Stennis back in 2007, and the group of us were some of the most qualified at our respective jobs onboard the entire ship. We as wiccans/pagans DESERVE to be amongst the fighting men and women of our country. We have earned at least that much by giving up our time, leaving our families for months (sometimes up to a year) defending YOUR right to say we don’t belong in the military. Show some tolerance before you post another “blog” such as this.
Lil Bit Fey
February 23rd, 2010
2:47 pm
For all of you out there hitting the “this is a nation of god” track… god is a concept or ideal not a title. Pagans are not godless, we are god-ful (and goddess-ful) as we recognize deity is revealed according to spiritual need and not all of us have our spritual needs met on the same path. And for those worried about who paid for the stone circle… who paid for the chapels and other Christ-centric worship places?
Lil Bit Fey
February 23rd, 2010
2:56 pm
BTW Bob, on a less academic note… you look like a tool.
William A. Baldwin
February 23rd, 2010
3:13 pm
Perhaps Mr. Barr should ask a few self-defined religious Pagans what “Pagan” means — instead of pulling up bias definitions from who-knows-where (and not providing references…..).
Perhaps he should stop calling people and practices “hilarious” without bothering to talk to practitioners and trying to understand them.
Perhaps he should learn to show a little respect for his fellow human beings — especially ones serving in our armed forces.
Katelyn C.Millins
February 23rd, 2010
3:21 pm
You are a complete joke. Do you realize that these Pagans you so called are an actuall people and race? My family is celtic, sure we dont prance around the woods holding candels.. where you can see us at least, we dont offened as the way you have just done. We are a people, we have a history, we have our religion. You my dear Bob are in much need for a history lesson. People can pray to a god, A goddess, or a spirit. same thing you are still praying to a dieity, something for protection. every religion has ways of dealing with things, sure some would light a candel in a window for those they have lost, or to have herbs and stones adorning there houses as to ward off evil. I belive christians have a cross no?
Please do not write about of which you do not understand, you just embaressed yourself, may I say congratz to your foppish attitude. If I had to follow a comander I wouldnt care what religion as long as he/she knew what was going on, we where taught not to discriminate against race, religion, ethnicity. You just insulted one of the oldest religions in history, I must ask, are you proud of yourself?
Jarred
February 23rd, 2010
4:46 pm
You disgust me. I am a PAGAN, and I think you area complete idiot moron who dosen’t know the first thing about Paganism or life for that matter. You need to either get a brain or stop this stupid blog.
Can you believe this jerk? « Carolinas to the Caribbean
February 23rd, 2010
5:33 pm
[...] Can you believe this jerk? Bob Barr speaks his “mind” on Pagan worship at the Air Force Academy [...]
TaraLynn
February 23rd, 2010
9:10 pm
“I’m sorry, but this truly is hilarious. Don’t get me wrong, if someone “has little or no religion and delights in sensual pleasures and material goods,” which is the definition of a “pagan,” then I say live and let live” Bob Barr
R U SERIOUS??? It seems to me that political types like YOURSELF are more materialistic than any pagan i know. For someone who has tried to run for president or even has any involvement in our American Government should possible get more education before opening one’s mouth, or at least get a proper dictionary. I have to agree 100% with Natalie.
Colleen P. Williams
February 23rd, 2010
9:57 pm
You are a traitor to the Constitution of the United States. Flat out. Traitor, Bob Barr. We have this thing called a Constitution, you know, the thing that the last administration tried to wipe their butts with, and it allows freedom of religion. Thank GODDESS that you are no longer in a position to further subvert the Constitution that my PAGAN grandfather fought for. He knew all about the evils of Christianity unregulated. I think we should rename you Torquemada.
You are a TRAITOR!!!! If you cannot live with the freedoms gauranteed by our Constitution and our priceless Bill of Rights, MOVE! Go to Afghanistan, you traitor. I hear that Al Queda could use more fanatics just like you.
Katie Alexander
February 24th, 2010
9:39 am
Mr. Barr, what is this? A wolf in sheep’s clothing, a Republican disguised as a Liberatarian. What, since you think yourself a walking dictionary, is the definition for liberty, then? The US Constitution was built under freedom of intolerance to religion, and for freedom to practice any religion of your choosing-NOT the freedom to practice any religion that is only a branch of Christianity. I disagree with other religions, too-Scientology, Catholicism, and Chritianity, but I would never twist around the actions of these followers to make it look as if it were something that these practices are not, and I would never look down on them for the religion that they practice when leading a soldier into battle (or being that soldier) when they are defending my right to be free, and your right to put your feet in your mouth-and I mean that literally. You, sir, have placed both feet in your mouth, with such a derrogatory comment toward the majority of the votes in your party. Forming everywhere are facebook pages and petitions to make sure that you no longer are able to run for president. Anyone displaying so much hate and intolerance has no leg to stand on. You have set people’s images and tolerance of us back at least one hundred years-shame on you.
At least these pagans ARE serving in the military, you may want to consider what you’ve done to have the right to say something like that.
Furthermore, the definition of pagan is not “devoid of religion” (I believe you were referring to atheism-that was what you were looking for, not paganism), although it may say this in the bible; it does, however, refer to those of us that are devoid of Christ, that we practice the old religion in which we appreciate the life and beauty and lessons in everything around us. We have Gods, Goddesses-we are not devoid of religion, it is just unlike your own, in that we believe in love, we belive in respect for everyone and everything around us, and we believe that there is no need to bash another’s religion (especially-and not because-they do a good enough job bashing it themselves, such as yourself, Mr. Barr). To be so closed-minded and blind to the fact that at least these people are serving-if they were so inclined to be nothing more than a tree hugger, then they wouldn’t even be there in the first place-when the entire nation to this day is still pissed at Bush for this “needless” war. At least they are there and defending you and your rights.
Shame on you. The Liberatarian Party deserves a voice that isn’t so mocking, such as your own. Someone that is not so arrogant and ignorant. You are not the face of the party that I believe in, the one that believes in liberty and justice and fairness to all, under whichever god they choose to serve. The Republican in sheep’s clothing MUST be silenced before his words are known to the wrong person, before the libel and slander suits are filed, because they can be. How montrous and disasterous of you to be so unkind, so shameful. To be so hurtful to a mass of this country that supported you and your efforts, that believes in your party. What’s next, gay bashing? Jew hating? You disgust me, sir.
Katie O
February 24th, 2010
10:58 am
The whole definition provided of paganism is simply ludicrous. Maybe that’s how Christians define Pagans, but that is not how Pagans define it!
Regardless of whether or not someone agrees with the practice of Paganism, those in the military who identify with that religion and want to practice it have the right to. They are still protecting our country, and protecting your right to spout off this nonsense, and protecting our freedoms. They are not forcing anyone to practice Paganism, and one could even argue that they are not even really encouraging it, just allowing it and providing a space for it. It’s not like they had to build a church and pay for construction of a building and all of the costs that go along with it, including electricity, etc. It’s circles of ROCKS! And frankly, if I were in the military I would be more nervous about following someone into battle that devalues a person just because of their religious beliefs than I would be about following a Pagan into battle. At least pagans (at least as a general rule) value all life and respect all life, and true pagans respect the religious beliefs of others, and their freedom of choice in religion. You don’t see military Pagans upset that people are allowed to go to Mass, do you?
And yes, this country was founded by people raised in the Christian belief system, with admittedly Christian morals, but the founding fathers were deists, and purposely included that church and state would be separated, which they could have very easily just left out, were that unimportant.
Lisa D
February 24th, 2010
11:48 am
That’s fine if you don’t practice another’s religion, but what gives you the right to impede on their freedom to do so? Your ignorance is both astounding and deeply saddening.
Linda
February 24th, 2010
4:43 pm
You are so pathetic, Bob! My son, a pagan, served in the military over in Iraq. To think that someone as small-minded as you at one time wanted to be president…..scares the crap out of me. Thank goodness you didn’t win. Pagans have as much right to their religion as anyone else. Our constitution protects religious freedom, among other freedoms. People like you (small-minded), need to get with the times and see that Pagans have a lot to offer our glorious country. Pagans are in all walks of life here in the States and around the world.
Get with the time, sir! Open your mind & heart to those around you. Pagans are people and have rights. Maybe we should take away your rights to freedom of speech since you don’t seem to actually know what you’re talking about
David
February 25th, 2010
8:43 pm
AMAZING!!! Yet ANOTHER “ex-congressman” who has never BEEN in the military!!! Imagine that!!! Lets see…I presume, being a “congressman” that you are even “college educated”. Which means you took a class on world religion. Which would have taught you that PAGANISM, Heathenism, whatever you wanna call it, existed WAY before Christianity. I bet you even celebrate “christian holidays” never wondering what a rabbit and eggs has to do with “Easter”…what a christmas tree has to do with the birth of a “savior”. Before you trip over your ” my religion is the ONLY religion ethos”, do consider that, you might actually be incorrect in your thoughts and/or misguided opinions. By the way…I AM PAGAN…I DID serve my country for 21 years in THE United States Air Force..AND my supervisors did NOT criticize me because I “danced around fires”. They ADMIRED me for my beliefs and told me thats why I was in the military…to protect religious freedoms.
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Kasey
March 16th, 2010
7:11 pm
This post is hopelessly offensive. You are obviously ignorant to what a pagan is and what we believe.
Jessica
March 21st, 2010
11:08 pm
How can you as a politician voice such politically incorrect garbage!!! I served in the Army, my family is a long line of military all though we are Christian we are also tolerant. I have personally began to study paganism again…my beliefs I put on the shelf due to moronic people like you taking away by constitutional freedom of religion and causing fear to my family. Those people that placed fear on my family were Die hard Christians…and we should be feared? Every religion has ritual, prayer, and is based on mythology…how dare you believe you are above any one and laugh at people SHAME ON YOU…AND YOUR WARPED SENSE OF HUMOR!
SeanBoxx
March 23rd, 2010
11:04 pm
Pagan, wiccan, blahblahblah. Don’t you people ever touch down to reality? Scientology has more credibility than you kooks. Why don’t you just call it The Divine Church of Renaissance Faire Dungeons and Dragons for the Overweight and Underbrained? If you weren’t so damned funny you’d be sad.
Nunnehi
April 4th, 2010
10:41 pm
Many think Pagans are “godless,” but they are wrong, we have many gods. You have but one,how sad. I would be happy to loan you one of mine.
Traditional Cherokee and former USAF officer.
Micheal j Chard U.S.M.C. and Pagan
April 18th, 2010
3:27 pm
I had an individual like you in my platoon once. I was reassured of the Marine Corps values while watching my Christian Marine BROTHERS police their own ranks and force this maggot to do push-ups untill his heart exploded. You insult Christiandom, and my Brothers and Sisters in the Armed Services. You’ve never served, I fail to see the relevance of your opinion. Can a Pagan make a good commander ? Oh, I don’t know, ask every Roman General before 33 AD. I suggest you get a library card.
Jennifer L.
April 18th, 2010
8:24 pm
I disagree with you immensly! Who are you to judge a religon? Im a wiccan. Its 2010 man! Its time to get off of your predjudice butt and get over the fact that their are pagans and wiccans in the military. Do you see us acting immature about Christains or Catholics??? I have friends that are Christains and Catholics, they dont judge me and i dont judge them. So how can you judge pagans in the army? If they want to practice their religon they should have the right to. 1st amendment! Freedom of Religon, Press, Petition, and Speech! You need to go over the Bill of Rights. Its the United States! So who cares if pagans and wiccans want to celebrate their religon. If it doesnt harm anyone i see nothing wrong with it. And dont try to single out one religon, theyre other religons satanists, buddist, hindus, christains, catholics, muslims, mormons, etc. Acknowledge those as well. I have nothing against any religon, but if you want to single out my religons mother? I have something to say about it. Their is nothing wrong with practicing your religon. So do i think the military should let the men and women practice their religon while serving our nation. ABSOLUTELY!
Female SrA
May 15th, 2010
4:47 pm
I’m 23, I’m in the Air Force, and I’m Wiccan. My shop has no problems with me, my friends and family know and dispite some being dedicated Christians I am completely accepted. I have many Earth Based and Pagan friends who are ALSO in the military (all branches). Also, the younger troops in my shop come to me and look to me for sound information on how to make a repair. Are you reading this properly? I AM IN THE USAF AND COMPLETLY RESPECTED DISPITE MY RELIGION. We are united as one nation under God. No wheres in there is “Christain God” “Muslim God” “American God” etc. Just “…under God”. It’s a two hundred year old quote, remember why we seperated from England.
Janus Blume
August 6th, 2010
3:41 pm
You go, Bob Barr! Our national motto is “In God we trust,” and we truly are “one nation under God” as our founding fathers saw fit to write into our…uh, oh yeah, salute to the flag. Well, some may point out that the “…under God” part wasn’t added until the middle of the twentieth century, but don’t we really know that they all served the Judeo-Christian God, and founded this country to be dedicated to Him? If you don’t believe in and serve Him, then you should have no religious rights in this land of the free. OMG, can you feel my sarcasm? How can people think this way?
Ed
August 21st, 2010
6:46 am
I am both surprised and amazed at how tolerance and diversity are our new religions. I’m a non-evangelical Christian and “tolerate” other religions, but I fully believe in Christianity. Overall, I’m not a tolerant person and why should I be? When you start dividing the country into multicultural, multiracial, mulit-religious factions, you no longer have a country…but, a Babylon of sorts. Diversity is NOT our strength, but homogenity is.