Pagan worship at Air Force Academy
A few years back, when I was in the US Congress, I took the Army to task for permitting the practice of Wicca on its bases, including at Ft. Hood in Texas. After speaking with a number of officers and military leaders, and meeting with several former military who adhere to the practice of Wicca, I was convinced that a belief in or practice of witchcraft, was not necessarily incompatible with the good order and discipline essential to a military lifestyle. However, one might legitimately wonder just how far such tolerance should extend.
The US Air Force, at no less a prestigious location than the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, has taken the notion of religious tolerance to a new level, in creating an outdoor worship area for pagans. The site, apparently sacred to pagans, consists of an inner and an outer circle of large stones. I’m sorry, but this truly is hilarious. Don’t get me wrong, if someone “has little or no religion and delights in sensual pleasures and material goods,” which is the definition of a “pagan,” then I say live and let live.
But I have to tell you, if I were in the Air Force and was being commanded by an officer who practices hedonism as a religion (another part of the definition of “pagan”), and who dances around a circle of stones in the woods carrying a lighted candle, I would be more than a little worried about following him into battle.
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330 comments Add your comment
Kat
February 18th, 2010
5:35 am
Choose your battles. Is undermining another’s religion really a good use of your time or a credit to your intelligence? Is stirring up strife and dissension among diverse humanity a good cause? I say no. It does however speak volumes of your inability to think for yourself, your lack of intelligence, comprehension and knowledge of the many belief systems in place in this country. I revel in the following quotes from my president: “We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation; we consider ourselves a nation of citizens who are bound by ideals and a set of values.”
“Whatever we once were, we are no longer a Christian nation – at least, not just. We are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, and a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers.”
(Thank the goddesses and gods that we have the first amendment!)
Rodney Derrick
February 18th, 2010
5:49 am
Bob- Have you ever criticized the Air Force Academy or the military for forcing evangelical Christianity on the students? This practice has been repeatedly reported in the past.
Tracie Holladay
February 18th, 2010
6:28 am
Barr is an idiot. Do NOT let him define the word “pagan” for everyone else – which is what he tries to do, TWICE, in this article. He is not a theologian or a historian and he cannot act as though he is (which is what he is doing in attempting to TELL people what “pagan” means). He is the reason I will never be a Libertarian and why I will strongly discourage any pagans or Wiccans from voting Libertarian.
Lady Whitewolf
February 18th, 2010
6:29 am
I had to laugh at what Ralph said. I may not be in the military, but if I was I would rather work with the person who is the best LEADER, not the most religious OR christian. And as you can probably tell by mu name, I myself am Pagan. I think that all branches of the military should respect ALL faiths….
Laura
February 18th, 2010
6:51 am
WOW, someone invite these people to a seasonal celebration so that they can see what is really going on. Amazing that people that consider themselves learned are this ignorant of the actual facts. And really, what dictionary are they reading? The definition of pagan in my webster, yes an actual book, says “country dweller” or “practitioner of a poly theistic religion”
Dick Cheney
February 18th, 2010
7:09 am
this ‘wiccan’ thing should be stopped ASAP! and everybody should worship my main man Lucifer, heil satan!
The Tar and Feathers Party
February 18th, 2010
7:29 am
Jesus H Christ, Bob, Get a life.
Alternative Sources
February 18th, 2010
8:12 am
Dont forget that religion that has all those snakes on a plane thingie. What about that? Snakes would be a good thing in battle. You could scare the bediddle daddle out of a enemy captive and get him to sing like a canary.
Like a bunch of priest candidates at a retreat. The bishop asks them, “What have you been doing all night?” The reply: “Army Training, Sir”.
or something equally idiotic.
Ivy
February 18th, 2010
8:40 am
Enter your comments here
Ivy
February 18th, 2010
8:44 am
Enter your comments here Wow, such ignorance coming from an educated, worldly man. Shame on you, Please don’t forget that Freedom of Religion means ALL religions, not just the ones YOU recognize as religion. I respecy you right to free speech, but you would do yourself favor by showing a little tolerance and respect. People have died so that we may practice our religion the way we see fit.
Hadriana
February 18th, 2010
9:04 am
Julius Ceasar and Alexander the great were pagans, and they didn’t seem to have any problems with ‘battle.’
This is why no one I know voted for Bob Barr for President. He’s a dangerous man that stands behind his conviction, no matter how stupid they are. One day he’ll see the light….
for starts, he needs to get rid of the idea that pagans aren’t God believing people. The nature of paganism is very tolerant – one can believe in the possibility of pantheons of Gods, and God unknown – you can believe in Jesus and I can believe in Krom or Athena or whatever, and we an all get along just fine.
People have been brainwashed since Vacation Bible School that the pagan world was just a bunch of …I dunno…sex craved maniacs. History shows clearly that MOST of western thought was born in pagan civilizations. Democracy anyone? Bob Barr would do well to remember that he stands on the shoulders of GIANTS, and a lot of those GIANTS were pagan.
HidingintheDeepSouth
February 18th, 2010
9:15 am
I am pantheistic and Buddhist(which makes me pagan). I have 3 points to make to Bob and my fellow readers.
1st. My Air Force family members share similar views to mine. Their service to their country is as honorable as anyone elses. In a free country, like ours is supposed to be, anyone is free to their religious beliefs or lack of beliefs as they are comfortable with. (They ARE tired of Christian religion being shoved down their throat EVERYWHERE in the Air Force.)
2nd. If the US pays to build a place of worship for Christians, they should for everyone, if not it would mean that the govt. is endorcing one religion over others and THAT is unconstitutional. But seriously folks, do you think a circle of stones cost as much as a church building. Be glad they didn’t want a temple! BTW, Knowing pagans, I imagine that the cadets did the work on this themselves.
3rd. Buddhist and Native Americans are pagan, and yet are not known for their “silly hedonistic” religious practice. Also, by one of the definitions of pagan; Hindus, Taoist, The non-Christian or Muslim African traditional religions, etc. are pagan. They are not so much of a minority, even in this nation, when taken as a whole.
Lastly, Barr, (who is from my Religious Right neck of the woods), demonstrated more than once his bigoted REPUBLICAN, not Libertarian, ideas years ago when he wanted to remove Wiccans from the military. My Wiccan military (Air Force) friends all freaked. They swore to uphold the Constitution and felt as though they were being betrayed by Barr and his ilk.
I have read and agreed with much Barr has written here and in CL, but I have never quite believed that he really believed in freedom due to these religious bigotries that he has.
Meeeee
February 18th, 2010
9:16 am
And people wonder why I as a Libertarian refused to vote for this guy.. Not only does he still not have a clue.. He really does not understand it is not about what religion a person has in the military. It is how effective one can be at his/her post.
Arentyoulibertarian?
February 18th, 2010
9:20 am
I thought you were supposed to be a libertarian. Clearly you don’t understand the concept. Go back to the republican party and you can surely find some psychotic christians to join in your religion bashing. While you are at it why not start gay bashing too?
I cannot believe you were ever associated with libertarianism. You make us all look bad!
David A. Wade
February 18th, 2010
9:22 am
I am a Vietnam veteran and a Pagan and your total misinformation about the Pagan religion is hitting an all time high! Try reading a book called “The Pagan Path” by Janet Farrer and Gavin Bone. Your probably will not do this though because it would take effort on your part and you obviously are not able to do this. Our rights under the constitution of The United States is protected and I am one of those people who have fought for our rights. My family fought in the American Revolution and every war since them to protect our rights and, in this particular maner, will continue to fight for our rights as Pagans!!!!
David A. Wade
U.S.A.F. Vietnam Veteran
noah c
February 18th, 2010
9:36 am
Don’t get me wrong, if someone “has little or no religion and delights in sensual pleasures and material goods,” which is the definition of a “pagan,” then I say live and let live. – Barr
Where the hell did he get his definitions from? Paganism’s definition for those that actually own a book or have access to the internet these days seems a little different-
1. (Christian Religious Writings / Theology) a member of a group professing a polytheistic religion or any religion other than Christianity, Judaism, or Islam
2. a person without any religion; heathen
adj
1. (Christian Religious Writings / Theology) of or relating to pagans or their faith or worship
2. heathen; irreligious
[from Church Latin pāgānus civilian (hence, not a soldier of Christ), from Latin: countryman, villager, from pāgus village]
Ya know, you think that with age would hopefully come wisdom. Good to see Mr. Barr continues to set fine examples of ignorance and bigotry many others will no doubt continue to follow.
Ed Joyce
February 18th, 2010
9:40 am
Mr. Barrr, I’m truly disappointed in you. Religion freedom is for everyone. Where is you criticism of the Catholic clergy who parade around in 10th century costumes, burning incense, and reciting prayers in Latin that no one can understand. Many religious ceremonies that our society accepts as routine should be included in your critique of Wiccan ceremonies – but the Wiccans are different and you have trouble accepting their differences. Shame on you – your views are a step backwards to a dark time of religious intoleration.
Betsy
February 18th, 2010
9:49 am
Pagan: a person who does not belong to any of the major world religions. This too is a definition of pagan! You should really get your facts straight before you spout your impressions of ’sacred space’ and ritual practice. If you know anything at all about religious practice, you would know that all of the rituals practiced by ‘book religions’ have their roots in paganism (from that Latin “country dweller).
Andy
February 18th, 2010
9:59 am
What are these so-called “Christians” doing going into the military in the first place? “Love thy enemy as thyself,” remember? “Turn the other cheek.” What hypocrites.
Brandon Longcrier
February 18th, 2010
10:07 am
I’d just like to add a few more definitions to some additional terms that are very misunderstood today.
Many people associate Pagans with the Occult and/or Cult. Let’s define those terms real quick.
Occult: “beyond the range of ordinary knowledge or understanding”.
To believe in God, miracles, or anything else that can’t be explained by science alone is “beyond the range of ordinary knowledge or understanding”, which includes every single religion / spirituality on the planet.
Cult: “a group or sect bound together by veneration (or belief) of the same thing, person, ideal, etc…“
Anything (the military, your job, your religion / spirituality, etc…) could easily fall under the definition of “Cult”. So when you get ready to write your next blog, don’t be so quick to throw words around you don’t fully understand as you clearly did in this one.
Jessica
February 18th, 2010
10:11 am
Wow. Your definitions of Wicca and Paganism are falling very solidly into the “did not do the research” category.
Xavier
February 18th, 2010
10:18 am
Isn’t it just awesome that these guys are fighting and dying for you to have the freedom to call them hedonists and for you to belittle their religion?
Brandon Longcrier
February 18th, 2010
10:42 am
Wikipedia:
“Christian Hedonism is a Christian doctrine current in some evangelical circles, particularly those of the Reformed tradition. The term was coined by Reformed Baptist pastor John Piper in his 1986 book Desiring God. Piper summarizes this philosophy of the Christian life as “God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him.” Christian Hedonism may anachronistically describe the theology of Jonathan Edwards.”
Thought that I should point this out.
John K
February 18th, 2010
10:58 am
Bob must be gearing up for something. He knows the Fundies will throw money at anyone who can convince them that their Jesus is under attack.
Iaintbacchus
February 18th, 2010
11:11 am
Saying that Wicca or any other panthiestic religion is incompatible with being in the American military is just plan wrong. It’s Monothiests who shouldn’t be allowed to serve. Every one of you, if you really believe religion also believes that the US government should be relpaced by your favorite flavor of religious law. Biblical, Sharia, Talmudic, it doesn’t matter. No one can be both a “good” Christian, Muslim, Jew or Mormon and also believe in a secular Democracy.
And the eight or nine of you who have already put forward the “one nation under God” cannard, which has only been in the pledge of allegence since the 1950s and doesn’t appear in the Constitution or any other officially sanctioned document at all, have proven my point. Get a clue. The Constitution starts out “WE THE PEOPLE” it does not include the phrase “IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST”.
Panthiests: Budhists, Hindus, Wiccans, Asatru, Shintaoists, Unitarians; and Athiests/agnostics are the only true Americans and the only ones fit to serve in our military because they are the only ones who don’t think they have a lock on the “ONE TRUE FAITH”(tm). The rest of you just want a Taliban under a different name. Well you can’t have it. And the sooner the military gets rid of the rest of the Christofascist fanatics at the the Airforce academy the better.
Skwurl
February 18th, 2010
12:09 pm
F*** you Bob Barr.
One persons belief system does not determine their combat abilities.
To all you people who agree, F*** you too. Just F*** you.
You’re the reason people kill each other. You’re the reason why this country isn’t progressing.
You people need to get off you’re f***ing high and mighty holier-than-thou attitude and accept the fact that people, y’know, think differently than you!
Get out of the f***ing 1600’s people. Welcome to the 21st century, where blacks can own property, women can vote, and you can be any religion you want.
And by the way, to all you moralfags who are too sheep-like to look up the definition of ‘Pagan’ for themselves, Bob Barr strategically uses the SECOND definition listed of pagans.
In the Webster definition, the FIRST one is: 1; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome) http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pagan
So yeah. F*** you. And don’t bother responding to this, I most likely will never look at this page again, so just rage at it.
And yes I’m Pagan- not Wiccan- and i’m going to pray about you to the devil while I’m sacrificing babies tonight.
If you didn’t realize I was joking about the devil and babies, f*** you for being an idiot.
Inuko
February 18th, 2010
12:19 pm
As a pagan serving in Iraq, one who is well on his way to earning his certification to being an ordained minister in the Sacred Well Congregation, as an American Citizen, as a human being, and above all, an organism with a cerebrum, I kindly ask you to know what on this green earth your talking about. I nearly threw up when I read this article. Since you’re too lazy to even hit up Wikipedia to find out what the heck you’re talking about, let me put this in the most simplified terms possible. I’ll try to walk the path of the enlightened, like Jesus Christ or Buddha, and try and teach you and alleviate your ignorance rather than bash you, insult you, or so forth (make no mistake, I’m no saint, but at least making the attempt to emulate such people is what most religions aim for, no?).
A “Pagan” refers to someone who follows a nature-based religion. It usually refers to most non-abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, if you’re not going to take the effort to find out what that means, and think I’m talking about some religion based on the worship of President Lincoln). These religions include, but are not limited to: Celtic, Norse, Greco-Roman, Shamanism, and Egyptian pantheons. the actual word “Pagan” come from latin “pagani” meaning ‘country folk,’ due to when Christianity became the ‘primary’ religion of Europe, most Urban areas were predominately Christian, whereas many people in Rural areas still held to their ancestral religion.
Oh, and talking about materialism in religion, ever heard of the Sistine Chapel (spelling?) in the Vatican. You know, the place with the Papal Throne? Where the popes commissioned the greatest artists of the time to do things like paint magnificent murals on every wall, craft chairs and thrones with gold inlay, et cetera.
Your ignorance and close-minded hatred of others’ religions reminds me of some pretty well known groups. Like, say, the crusaders, the Jihadists, the Al-Qaida, the Taliban, the Nazi Party, the Spanish Inquisition, I could go on for hours.
They say that more people have died in the name of God(s) than for any other reason. This is untrue. More people have died due to religious prejudice than any other reason for wars, because, after all, a good Christian, Jew, Muslim, Pagan, Buddhist, Hindi, or follower of any other religion would not condone violence out for other reason than for self-defense or defending the life of someone who cannot protect themselves.
Skwurl
February 18th, 2010
12:20 pm
One more comment-
He thinks Pagans can’t fight wars?
Who does he think ruled the planet until ‘Jesus’ was ‘born’?
The Barbarians, the Celts, the Vikings, the Goths, the Vandals, the Greeks, the Romans, the Egyptians, the Mayans, the Aztecs, the ancient Chinese. Some of the most war-torn savage people. They ruled the planet until Christianity came along.
They were all Pagan. And they liked to frolic naked in the woods with candles and rocks and with whatever other misconception people have.
And before people comment about how they’re gone now and how Christianity won- they didn’t BEAT the Pagans. They force-converted them.
Dawn
February 18th, 2010
12:21 pm
Wow, an incongruent rant by an obsolete man with old ideas. A libertarian? Not even close. This is a piece written by someone who agrees with people I work with — right-wing Christians. This guy is not for liberty. As for my opinion, the government shouldn’t be spening any money making an religious worship sites at all! And let’s get rid of the evangelism in the military as well. I am so tired of right-wing “Christian” nutjobs talking like their word is the word of their God. (I’m a deist btw, so go ahead and slam me…yawn.)
Dawn
February 18th, 2010
12:22 pm
ugh, couldn’t edit but spening=spending and the word an shouldn’t have been in there.
Michael Shanklin
February 18th, 2010
12:29 pm
Young kids who are thinking about dying for this socialist/fascist government….
DON’T SIGN THE CONTRACT!
Other than that….all religion is crazy to me. I won’t die for any of these “Gods”….that would most likely be pissed that humans are tarnishing their name like this…..bombing hundreds of thousands of innocent children overseas just to create more blowback. What the heck is wrong with these neocons and Keynesian liberal nation builders?!? This is NOT libertarianism, this is a discussion over the military industrial complex and most people on here disgust me with talk about how the military is somehow different than any other government program….
True libertarians reject statism, the military industrial complex is sucking away wealth faster than most programs….over $1 TRILLION a year! Complain about that instead……
It doesn’t matter who is directing troops when the troops are at home with their families……on our soil, defending our land! We should be complaining about the police the world state, not about who will control the police the world state! Our founding fathers and grandchildren would be glad they are not seeing this!!!
LibertyUnleashed
February 18th, 2010
12:30 pm
How did Bob Barr ever get the libertarian nomination? He is a neo-con and this article is nothing but lame. Imagine how the world would be if Bob Barr got to opportunity to outlaw anything he doesn’t like or in this case understand. Way to respect freedom of religioun Bob, get out of politics or at least go back to your neo-con republican party and stop pretending to be a libertarian.
Maggie
February 18th, 2010
12:35 pm
Lets hear it for the prejudiced bigot! Keep your opinions to yourself unless you know what you’re talking about Bar.
Maggie
February 18th, 2010
12:46 pm
And by the way even my atheist friend thinks you’re an idiodic, self centered, prejudiced, unenlightened prick. His words not mine but I agree totally.
lovelyliz
February 18th, 2010
1:04 pm
When I was in the military, ther ewas plenty of hedonism practiced by my fellow Christians in uniform. Just ask aboout Subic Bay, Clark AFB, any where a detachment lands or pulls into port, etc.
emo
February 18th, 2010
1:32 pm
“if I were in the Air Force and was being commanded by an officer who practices hedonism as a religion (another part of the definition of “pagan”), and who dances around a circle of stones in the woods carrying a lighted candle, I would be more than a little worried about following him into battle”
Interesting comment from someone who, as far as I can see, has never followed anyone into battle, or even onto a parade field…
Vandreyer
February 18th, 2010
1:42 pm
Yes, what a shame religious tolerance is taken to all new levels. By all means let’s go back to being intolerant bigots who make blanket assumptions and squeeze everyone into neat little stereotypes for easier target practice. God forbid (yours, that is) that you actually get to know someone and learn about him. You might just find you’re not so special after all.
Steph Reisner
February 18th, 2010
1:46 pm
I think it’s unfortunate a Libertarian has joined up with the far right wing Evangelical fringe on this one. I guess if we want to know who the bigots are we need to really pay attention to voting records and public comments like this when it comes time to vote. Party affiliation seems to be something one can change like clothing depending on the look they’re going for to attract the most money or voters. For the record I’m Pagan and proud (and really dislike your ignorant remarks about Pagan religions) and I’m sharing your ignorance and bigotry with all my pagan friends.
JTex
February 18th, 2010
1:58 pm
Bob,
Neither you nor any person agreeing with you on this topic deserves to live in this country. You have no respect for our Constitution, all your whinging about guns to the contrary. How dare you presume to be the arbiter of what religion is and is not “acceptable” to you. Religious freedom does not end because your comfort zone is impinged upon.
Shame on you, and shame on every single person who agrees with you. You have far more in common with Islamic extremists than you’d like to admit.
Eric
February 18th, 2010
2:36 pm
Well, I guess I have to ask then, Mr. Barr… Who WOULD you follow into combat? Seems to me like you were the right age to serve in the military in Viet Nam? Especially when there were all those good, upstanding, white Christians leading troops there. How was it that you managed to get out of serving? Since when does being a coward qualify you to criticize the brave? Since when did you earn that right? How many coffee machines did you have to shoot in order to rise through the ranks of the CIA? How many bags of weed did you have to burn up in order to survive college? I find it ironic that those that tend to speak up the loudest concerning things like religious tolerance toward religions other than their own are ALWAYS the people with the biggest doubts about their faith… Those who speak loudest about morality and decency are ALWAYS the most immoral and disgusting people. Congratulations, Mr. Barr! You are no exception!
As a 21-year service member (who is STILL serving, by the way,) AND a practicing Pagan, I’ve served in some pretty scary situations and followed some very good leaders and some very bad ones. And let me tell you that RELIGION makes a difference in terms of leadership ability. Most “religious” leaders I’ve encountered, simply don’t understand the difference between right and wrong from an objective viewpoint, and are incapable of rational decision-making, unless they are capable of setting their religious beliefs aside (which MOST are decidedly NOT!) Nearly all of them have no understanding of the freedoms that are guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States… And these are supposedly the leaders of those of us that are sworn to support and defend it! Several times, I’ve questioned the leadership abilities of religious types, who simply couldn’t understand that the “welfare of their soldiers” doesn’t mean trying to forcibly convert them, no matter what their religion’s doctrine says…
As a member of Congress, you supposedly took a similar oath. Judging by all the hard work you have done stepping all over basic freedoms and Constitutional Rights, it certainly shows how little your oath has meant to you.
JEWGAN
February 18th, 2010
3:57 pm
Yes, as my “name” implies “JEW” as in Jewish and “GAN” as in Pagan. I am an Army (National Guard) Jew working on starting a “Wiccan” (pagan) Open Circle on an Air Force Base. Why, do you ask, am I doing this? I am doing this because I am a Non-Commissioned Officer (NCO) and one of my duties is to take care of the “troops” well-being. I veiw “taking care of the troops” as looking out for their physical, emotional, and SPIRITUAL well-being whether or not I agree with them as long as they are not breaking any laws or regulations. The Air Force Base near where I live is in the middle of the “Bible Belt” and there is very little for non-christians. I, too am fighting the Bob Barr attitude, as the chaplain I am working with will NOT let us meet in any of the chapel facilities. This is very frustrating and I will soon be taking his actions to a HIGHER authority.
JEWGAN
Florence
February 18th, 2010
4:29 pm
“Shall we suffer a Pagan to deal with us and not suffer him to pray to his god? . . . . It is the refusing toleration to those of different opinion which has produced all the bustles and wars on account of religion.” – Thomas Jefferson
Brooke
February 18th, 2010
4:31 pm
I’m sorry that Mr Barr doesn’t seem to believe in one of the tenets of our democracy – freedom of religion. If someone is Pagan and chooses worship that way what business is it of mine? If they are Christian and worship that way what business is it of mine?
It’s funny that Mr Barr mentions people unwilling to follow a Pagan into battle? First, they would be following a superior officer and a fellow American. Second, I don’t think the soldiers of Julius Caesar or Alexander the Great minded following a Pagan into battle.
Brandon Longcrier
February 18th, 2010
4:53 pm
JEWGAN,
If your Chaplains aren’t accommodating you, then you definitely need to take it up the Chain-of-Command, but keep in mind that there may be better and more private places for you and your group to meet other than Chapel facilities. If you have office space near where you work, then that might be an option for you. Here at the Air Force Academy, we meet in a conference room for now. Of course once the weather gets better and I finish the Circle, then we’ll be meeting up there as much as possible. Just try to keep a good relationship with your Chaplains, and work with your leadership to see if there’s another place where you and your group can meet.
And if all else fails, look me up and we can discuss your options.
Deanna Deal
February 18th, 2010
5:26 pm
Shame on you. Freedom of religion means freedom for ALL religions, not just yours. You have a lot of growing left to do. Making fun of one’s sacred space is not a very Christian thing to do. You would have fits if someone called your favorite church building “truly hilarious”. SHAME on you.
J. A. Simonsson
February 18th, 2010
5:27 pm
Thank you, Mr. Barr. Thank you for once again opening your mouth, and confiming that I made the right decision in 2008, to vote Republican and cast my ballot, so that I, among many, helped send you back into the private sector, where you are FAR from the levers of power in this great nation. I note with amusement the tag line at the top of this web page regarding The Barr Code… but shouldn’t it read instead: “Where willful ignorance, bigotry, and self-serving ideology reveal that Bob’s talking out of his @$$ AGAIN!”
To all veterans and active duty personnel of the Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force, and Coast Guard, regardless of your religious or spiritual affiliation, or the lack thereof… thank you for your service to this great nation, thank you for your sacrifice of your time with your families, for your defense of Liberty, for willingly stepping into harm’s way so that every American can say what they wish, worship how they wish, and do what they wish for a living without having to get anyone’s of Bob Barr’s ilks approval or sanction of those decisions. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart for defending my life, and the lives of every member of my family. Words fail me now…
Bob
February 18th, 2010
5:42 pm
I would rather have a wide eyed realist in a leadership position rather than someone relying on a non-existent god and who might be stupid enough to put faith in and therefore might falsely ascribe military success to belief in this non-entity.
Nanonano
February 18th, 2010
6:18 pm
Worried about following a neo-pagan into battle? Stop and think: Norse berserkers and the pre-Christian Celts were considered some ominous foes in their time. And they were basically pagan cultures, just to add to many examples of this already. I wish people would just stop and THINK about history.
Personally, I don’t care what someone believes if they’re competent and respect my right to my own personal beliefs as I respect theirs. The military is no place for religion, in my opinion, in terms of dictated policy that soldiers should believe one thing or another. That is a slippery slope to becoming some of the very things our founders rejected outright, not to mention the foes we are fighting who are using twisted religious rhetoric.
From what I’ve read, there has been basic support for neopagan/Wiccan worship in the military for quite a long time (Army Chaplain’s book has information, for instance). These folks may have a space for worship and there has certainly been backlash about that–I seem to remember a Fort Hood incident where a newly installed altar was destroyed by presumed Christians. An outrageous and intolerant act that would have been all over the news had this been a Christian altar.
Neopagan worship is no big deal, just different. It is protected by the First Amendment, plain and simple. To my mind, this is more a case of that which some don’t understand soon becomes demonized, kind of like the Dark Ages.
These are people who find strength and sustenance in their worship and understand people have a personal relationship to their god. As one acquaintance once said, “Polytheism includes monotheism, but monotheism doesn’t include polytheism.” Therein lies the problem. Neopagans by their very nature WILL be tolerant of others who worship differently. If only the monotheists weren’t so busy making sure everyone knew they were right.
Chris Broe
February 18th, 2010
7:27 pm
Why is it so surprising that there is Pagan worship at the Air Force Academy? After all, they teach flight dynamics at Wiccan School, where broom riding is serious biz. Watch those landings, ladies.
bwa
Anonymous
February 18th, 2010
8:31 pm
I’m actually very conservative on most issues, and consider myself a Libertarian based on my views. Religion, however, is one of the three issues I am not conservative on, being a practicing pagan myself. This is exactly the attitude that contributed to me not voting for you in the last presidential election.
No one has an issue with providing a church or chapel for Christian soldiers to worship in. If there is a significant number of pagans on a particular base, I see no reason why their requests for a place to practice their religion shouldn’t be accommodated. Pagans are citizens, voters, and taxpayers to.