Cheney’s Disdain For The Law Is Appalling

When Attorney General Eric Holder last month announced he was naming a special prosecutor to determine if CIA personnel had violated federal laws against torturing prisoners during the prior administration of George W. Bush, former Vice President Cheney went ballistic.  Even though Holder made clear the reach of the special prosecutor’s jurisdiction would extend only to those who had exceeded even the broad legal “justification” for torture provided by lawyers in the Bush Justice Department, Cheney found Holder’s move outrageous.

Obviously, Cheney believes that so long as violations of federal law were committed by persons in a previous administration, the perpetrators should be forever thereafter immune from being held accountable for their offenses.  To even suggest otherwise apparently strikes the former vice president as a purely “political move,” for which “there’s no other rationale,” according to Cheney.

Evidently, Cheney has never read of, or has long forgotten the fact that — as noted for, example, by our nation’s very first vice president, John Adams – ours is a ”government of laws, and not of men.”  To our immediate past vice president, such sentiments represent nothing more than “partisan politics.”  Thankfully, our current attorney general agrees with Mr. Adams.

109 comments Add your comment


September 9th, 2009
9:36 am

The terrorists that were captured on the battlefield were acting outside of any soveriegn laws. They are not entitled to the Geneva Conventions, either. Therefore, they are not entiltled to U.S. habeus corpus. There is no need for this witch hunt. Perhaps we should take a look at the play book of Mossad.

Jim Callihan

September 9th, 2009
9:54 am

Guess what America? We’ve been PUNKED!

Connect the dots – all beginning from “GHW”. His help in creating the young charismatic Governor from Arkansas – complete with a college law tutelage under “conservative” corporatist guardian, Robert Bork. The hiring and training of Dick in the CIA, brought into the Reagan Administration as “shadow muscle”. The same man who called the shots then has never been removed from power.

All through the years, Dick has been the good, loyal soldier – a deeply darkened narcissist whose only quality is loyalty. The entire public display of “Cheney vs Obama Cabinet” is fit for the WWE – and ticket sales have never been greater.

“Barry” is the “new Dick”, but the boss has not been removed. The world is lining up against the corrupt and the hand-picked money team of “Bernanke-Geithner”, which will soon fold like a cheap tent. Hell…even Barnie Frank is now calling for a Federal Reserve audit.

I suspect that Barry will be removed soon, as he will save his own skin rather than hide/cover the dirty deeds of “Prince Machiavelli” – CIA mastermind and evil incarnate.

All hell is about to break loose – meet your next POTUS, Joe Biden. Tick-tock…

Paraguay has no extradition agreement with the US. History always repeats itself. Remember when the WWII war criminals fled to South America?


Senator Shameless was overheard telling a major conservative donor in the 9th CD last election – “It’s complicated”.

Well…not really. “Insisto viaticus” (”follow the money”).

And there is NO MONEY like global arms money…


Rusty Shackleford

September 9th, 2009
10:00 am

Since losing his re-election bid, Barr has struggled to find relevance. He feels he wasn’t supported by the Republican leadership and is a relegated to a life of pot shots, with no ideological basis.

Final note-anyone ever hear Bob Barr’s (short lived) radio show? It was without question the worst-


September 9th, 2009
10:03 am

Cheney’s problem is not a fundamental disregard for the rule of law.
His problem is that 9/11 happened on his watch while his administration was concerned only with an “anti-missile missile”.
They just took their eye off the Al Qaeda ball despite warnings from the Clinton national security team. After 9/11 his determination was never again. And he made sure it never happened again. If that meant bending or breaking the law, so be it. And he believes they were successful & he believes that the motive should trump the actual facts.

That is my understanding of Cheney from lot of reading. And I agree with him 100%.

vince neil

September 9th, 2009
10:08 am

a wretched opinion in a worse publication!


September 9th, 2009
10:52 am

People, please learn how to spell and use proper grammer.


September 9th, 2009
11:04 am

Are you really that crazy????

R Webster

September 9th, 2009
11:14 am

Cheney deserves to be treated the same way he wants to treat others.

Chris Broe

September 9th, 2009
11:33 am

I dispise Cheney, sure, that’s no secret. I consider him a traitor for belaying Bush’s 2002 order to attack OBL when the CIA had him corralled. Cheney knew that America would not support an Iraq War if Osama Bin Laden was dead or captured, his Al Queda thug-army destroyed. America would have wanted the troops to come home to a ticker tape 911 rememberance parade. No Iraq War.

The moot technical fine points in this torture debate are simply running interference for a traitor, and Bob Barr is out front, looking to block truth and justice so a scoundrel can get clean away, (the dirty rat).

If Mr Barr thinks he’s fooling anyone with this half-partisan beach-slapping of Cheney, then he should know the truth about his journalistic style as well as his political intuition.

Which of us has the heart to tell him?

Also: Notice how the AJC Blogs all follow my lead?


September 9th, 2009
11:34 am

Get it straight people. THEY ALL SUCK. This county could use a lot less of this so-called leadership. It’s damm near good as gone with the fiscal nightmare that “our leadership” has created. It was a nice run but the empire is ending and so is American hegemony and your cozy life styles with it. Bread and milk and gas are gonna be dammed expensive in a couple years. Will your wages keep up? Health care won’t matter so much then. Kind of like being a bum. Priorities and such.

Sunshine and Thunder

September 9th, 2009
11:37 am

Investigate the CIA for sleep deprivation, loud music, waterboarding? None of these is life threatening – just uncomfortable. If this isnt’ politically motivated I’m Elvis Presley.


September 9th, 2009
11:42 am




September 9th, 2009
12:02 pm

Ahhh, the lovely smell of politics and pointed fingers in the afternoon – how refreshing! If I disagree with you, your life and all that has touched it surely must suck. Anyway, if we turn our backs on torture we lower ourselves to become more like the enemies that we despise so very much, not to mention giving them additional cause to blow us up. The best things that ever furthered Bin Laden’s cause were the blunderings of Bush Junior (note that Senior was at least sharp enough not to march into Baghdad). If there was no wrongdoing, nobody would have anything to worry about, and if there was, those responsible should be expected to face the music. That pesky Constitution cuts both ways.


September 9th, 2009
12:03 pm

BARR has gone the way of Bookman……………too liberal….

Birther or Bust

September 9th, 2009
12:07 pm

Sorry Bob, Cheney is a GREAT American! I wish the pod people that took the Bob Barr from the 1990’s, that I respected, would bring him back.

Jason C

September 9th, 2009
12:14 pm

Some of these comments about a politically motivated AG is hilarious to me considering AG Gonzales, under the direction of Rove / Cheney, had several federal attorneys fired because they didn’t want to move forward on cases that would have supported the Republican party.

I personally would prefer a politically neutral AG, but if an AG can be Republican leaning, why can’t there be an AG that’s democratic leaning. Then at least the net effect would be a neutral AG over time.


September 9th, 2009
12:14 pm

Thanks you, Mr. Barr for stepping up and acknowledging that Cheney is willing to break the laws of our country and shows no regret for his support of torture. Chicken farmer, I totally agree with you. The anger and vitriol spewed by the far right and far left have really hurt the United States. Shame on us, America, let’s get our act together.


September 9th, 2009
12:19 pm

I’m amazed that you people still have the audacity to defend Dick Cheney and George W. after they broke just about every law they could. All of you hollering “wake up” should wake yourselves up.

The lawbreakers are gone and they are hoping like hell they don’t get caught for their 8 years of lawlessness.

I say hang ‘em up and tar-and-feather ‘em. I’ll get the rope!


September 9th, 2009
12:20 pm

Mr. Barr, what were opinions back when you worked for the CIA? Would you have supported doing everything available to support and defend?


September 9th, 2009
12:25 pm

George American @ 11:42 – Cheney is one of the few Americans willing to stand up to the terrorists? BS! He stood up to Iraq – who did not attack our country and who did not have WMD’s. They had OIL … lush, yummy, rich oil to fatten his pockets.

And, the millions of troops, families and friends are all willing to stand up to the terrorists, thank you very much!

My Own Two Cents

September 9th, 2009
12:32 pm

For Law Standard:

Retribution: to return in kind.

I don’t think Obama was ever investigated by Dick Cheney. “Retribution” would be if one of Cheney’s victims sought vengence.

I also have one unrelated thought to add.

If nothing is done there will be legal precedent for our government to torture people. Notice I didn’t put any labels on that, just people. Where do you suppose it will stop?

You’re not afraid of that? Think about relatives and loved ones beset upon by an unfriendly future administration.

This should only be done to terrorists? What’s the legal definition of terrorist? Who’s to say what that is? The President? This President, too? A future President with views that we can only imagine?

This is very personal for me. My daughter wasn’t born in this country. The way things stand now one day she can be arrested without warrant or cause, held indefinitely, and “questioned using enhanced interragation techniques”. All this can someday be done because of something as damning as where she was born.

I don’t know about you, but to me, that’s not America.


September 9th, 2009
12:36 pm

I hope Carl Rove is his buddymate when they get to the “pokey”


September 9th, 2009
12:40 pm

It is time for Cheney to face the music. It is amazing the damage this man has done. I am sure there is much more we still don’t know about. There is a related post at


September 9th, 2009
12:48 pm

Ah, I love the smell of napalm in the morning!
Darth Cheney deserves to be prosecuted on several accounts: Ordering the CIA to torture, outing a CIA agent and fabricating evidence to start an unjustified war, to name a few. Oh, and don’t forget the illegal wiretapping of Americans. He’s been the most damaging VP in US history and made out like a bandit on his Halliburton stock.


September 9th, 2009
2:38 pm

“God is on the conservatives side and wants us to defend ourselves against islam. David hit goliath with a rock so why not put a hot poker up some arabs A-hole if it will keep us free.” BAHAHAHAHAHA! God is conservative? The same God who gave us Jesus who was the biggest liberal rabble rouser of his time? The God of Love? The one who sent His Son to teach us to turn the other check and to love thy enemy? THAT GOD?! Honestly though, what is even more scary is that there are people who really seem to believe that our country was created (or given to us) by God and that God is on OUR side. I guess these people don’t realize that the God of Islam is the same God of Christianity (Islam is to Christianity as Christianity is to Judaism). So Christian God beating Islamic God is God beating Himself up.

On the topic though…I see it’s all partisan all the way on the conservative side. I agree that there should be an investigation to determine if laws were broken and if they were those who broke them should be punished. Sadly I hold no hope that those who provided the rationale and gave the orders will actually be held accountable…kind of like the soldiers at Abu Ghraib being punished, but no one higher up taking any real heat.


September 9th, 2009
2:45 pm



September 9th, 2009
2:53 pm

If Bush, Cheyney, Ashcroft, Rove, Yoo, Addington, Fife, Libby, Gonzalez, Tenet, Hayden and others in that gang on criminals were obligated to protect and defend us from all enemies, foreign and domestic, who can we name that should PROTECT US FROM THEM?


September 9th, 2009
2:53 pm

Enter your comments hereGodwin’s Law be damned–it’s impossible to read the newly released CIA report on the torture of Muslim prisoners without thinking of the Third Reich.

Sadism exists in every culture. A century ago, for example, Western adventurers who visited Tibet reported that the authorities in Lhasa, that supposed capital of pacifism, publicly gouged out criminals’ eyes and yanked out their tongues. But Nazi atrocities were stylistically distinct from, say, the Turkish genocide of the Armenians or the Rwandan massacres of the early 1990s. German war crimes were characterized by methodical precision, the application of “rational” technology to increase efficiency, the veneer of legality and the perversion of medical science.

Nazi crimes were also marked by public indifference, which amounted to tacit support. Here and now, only 25 percent of Americans told the latest Pew Research poll that they believe torture is always wrong.

“The CIA’s secret interrogation program operated under strict rules, and the rules were dictated from Washington with the painstaking, eye-glazing detail beloved by any bureaucracy,” observed The New York Times. We have much in common with the Germans.

“In July 2002,” the declassified report reveals, a CIA officer “reportedly used a ‘pressure point’ technique: with both of his hands on the detainee’s neck, [he] manipulated his fingers to restrict the detainee’s carotid artery.” Another agent “watched his eyes to the point that the detainee would nod and start to pass out; then … shook the detainee to wake him. This process was repeated for a total of three applications on the detainee.”

The CIA’s rinse-lather-repeat approach to torture is reminiscent of Dr. Sigmund Rascher’s experiments at Dachau and a parallel project conducted by the Japanese Imperial Army’s infamous Unit 731 in occupied Manchuria in 1942-43. Rascher, who was tried for war crimes after World War II, froze or lashed detainees nearly to death, then revived them over and over. German and Japanese doctors developed detailed protocols governing the severity of exposure to which inmates could be subjected–protocols seized by U.S. occupation forces and turned over to the OSS, predecessor of the CIA.

So it was in the CIA’s prisons at Guantanamo, Bagram, Diego Garcia, Eastern Europe, Thailand and elsewhere.

(Or, to be more accurate, so it is. George W. Bush publicly banned torture in 2006, but we know it was still going on as of 2007. President Barack Obama supposedly banned it again earlier this year, but then his CIA director Leon Panetta told Congress the agency reserves the right to keep doing it. Until the entire secret prison network is dismantled and every single prisoner released, it would be absurd to assume that torture is not continuing.)

Among the verbal treasures in the CIA papers is the “Water Dousing” section of the “Guidelines on Medical and Psychological Support to Detainee Rendition, Interrogation and Detention,” which “allow for water to be applied using either a hose connected to tap water, or a bottle or similar container as the water source.” Ah, the glorious war on terror. Detainees may be soaked in water as cold as 41 degrees Fahrenheit for as long as 20 minutes­–no longer, no colder.

For the record, the CIA’s medical expertise is about as reliable as its legal and moral sense. Forty-one degrees is bracingly cold; 41 was the temperature of the Hudson River when US Airways Flight 1549 crashed into it earlier this year. (Remember the ice floes?) “Generally, a person can survive in 41-degree water for 10, 15 or 20 minutes,” Dr. Christopher McStay, an emergency room physician at New York City’s Bellevue Hospital told Scientific American magazine.

Like its Gestapo and SS antecedents, the CIA is highly bureaucratic. CIA employees were informed that “advance headquarters approval is required to use any physical pressures [against prisoners].” And those permissions came from the very top of the chain of command: the White House, which ordered the Office of Legal Counsel and other legal branches of the federal government to draft “CYA” memoranda. The memos, wrote Joshua L. Dratel in his introduction to “The Torture Papers: The Road to Abu Ghraib,” a compilation of memos authorizing torture of Muslim detainees, reflect “a wholly result-oriented system in which policy makers start with an objective and work backward.”

Also reminiscent of Nazism is the utter absence of firewalls that has come to characterize the behavior of top government officials. Totalitarian regimes like Nazi Germany corrupt the judiciary by using the courts to carry out political policy. Beginning under Bush and now under Obama, judicial independence has been eradicated.

On Aug. 28, The New York Times reported: “In July, Leon E. Panetta, the CIA director, tried to head off the investigation [of the CIA's torture program], administration officials said. He sent the CIA’s top lawyer, Stephen W. Preston, to [the Department of] Justice to persuade aides to Attorney General Eric H. Holder, Jr. to abandon any plans for an inquiry.” There’s a term for this: obstruction of justice. You’re not supposed to try to influence the outcome of an investigation. It was count six of the impeachment proceedings against President Richard Nixon.

To Holder’s credit, he has appointed a special prosecutor. To his discredit, the focus of the investigation is narrow: He will only go after officials who went beyond the Bush administration’s over-the-top torture directives (which allow, as seen above, freezing people to death). He does not plan to go after the worst criminals, who are the Bush administration lawyers and officials, including Bush and Dick Cheney themselves, who ordered the war crimes–much less those like Obama who are currently covering them up.

He should change his mind. While he’s at it, he should throw Leon Panetta in jail.

Holder’s brief currently involves just 20 cases, which include detainees who were murdered by the CIA. But even those will be tough to prosecute, reports The New York Times: “Evidence, witnesses and even the bodies of the victims of alleged abuses have not been found in all cases.”

Because, you see, the bodies were burned and dumped. They–the CIA–are Nazis for committing the crimes.

And we are Nazis for not giving a damn. Only one-third of Americans told the April 27 CBS News/New York Times poll that there ought to be an investigation of Bush-era war crimes–and they don’t care enough to march in the streets, much less break a few windows. So few of my columns on torture have been reprinted by American newspapers or Web sites that I seriously contemplated not bothering to write this one. We have met the Nazis, and they are us.

Karl Marx

September 9th, 2009
2:56 pm

“karl not to be funny but how many documents did you ask the white house to provide before you got wounded… none you did your job and i thank you once again for that.’

Cheney could have been worse, he could have impeached a sitting President for a stained dress.


They used to call me CrazyJoe now they call me Batman!

September 9th, 2009
4:07 pm

James Henderson said “The problem with Eric Holder’s decision to appoint a special prosecutor goes beyond any perception that Cheney is having a petulant fit of pique. Rather, it is the use of the power of the government by a politically appointed officer of it, to service a special needs population: far left whackos.”

Batman says – Where was he when Bush/Alberto Gonzales/Cheney was using the office of the AG as a witch hunt; persecuting and FIRING anyone who didn’t uphold the republican manifesto? Where was his outrage then? Sometimes, I just have to shake my head at these blatant double standards…

Bob says “Cheney should e allowed to do whatever he wants to keep us free. This is reverse racism and politically motivated by Obama and his black panther cronies.”

Batman says – Bob please take your meds. You’ll feel much better.

They used to call me CrazyJoe now they call me Batman!

September 9th, 2009
4:13 pm

Netbanker said “Sadly I hold no hope that those who provided the rationale and gave the orders will actually be held accountable…kind of like the soldiers at Abu Ghraib being punished, but no one higher up taking any real heat.”

Batman says – NetBanker, crap runs down hill. That’s why the higher ups never/hardly ever go to jail or are punished. Remember Iran/Contra? No one in their right mind believed that a Col. with limited authority and NO AUTHORITY to authorize subversive missions did it all by himself with no help from the White House (Reagan).

Facts Please said “Lets not bother with Cheney and get to more important things like lets check out why Obama gave up top secrets to his enemy friends. Why hes appointing zars who have criminal pasts and radical motives. Then lets take one step further and investigate Nancy Pelosi and her hiding of facts given by the CIA and her out right lying to save her skin. Lets put the investigation where it belongs, with this current administration who are trying to turn this country into something that not even the Commys want. Lets start with the people who are in power now and got there by deceipt and ACORN fraud.”

Batman Says – Facts, please go with Bob to see the nurse — it’s time for your meds too. Thanks!

Sunshine and Thunder

September 9th, 2009
4:26 pm

A lot of very sad, bitter old hippies on this thread would like nothing more than to see Dick Cheney prosecuted. You’d better come up with a crime first. Oh? You can’t? Then go away.

John Adams

September 9th, 2009
4:45 pm

For those smart folks who can see Russia from their house…The US Constitution is clear. Signed treaties are law. Even your beloved Reagan signed the treaty. The law is crystal clear. Torture is a crime, period.

It is a joke that Holder may stop short of Cheney.

The greatest threat to this nation is the stupidity of its inhabitants. The likes of Cheney can always count on your stupidity, and therefore your support.

Tap foot for a Republican. Coming to a stall near you.

Jim Callihan

September 9th, 2009
4:48 pm

“afternoontea” – GREAT POST!

But remember, the last POTUS to actually pick his own cabinet was GHW. “Fauntleroy” was kidding himself when he jokingly proclaimed “I’m the decider”. I can hardly see “44″ prosecuting any “untouchable” (Panetta, Cheney or otherwise) – “Boss-Daddy” will have none of this.

The “Church Commission” warned Americans what becomes of an unbridled CIA. “Conservatives” raged…but not like they’re raging now.

It’s just too easy…

Dave R.

September 9th, 2009
5:13 pm

If the greatest threat to this nation is the stupidity of it’s inhabitants, then God save us from liberals!

Remember, boys and girls, this issue was already investigated and people were prosecuted and convicted. What AG Holder is doing is just a witch hunt to prop up the lefties bailing on Hope & Change for being the abject failure of a President nearly 50% of us knew he’d be.

Laura Myers

September 9th, 2009
5:22 pm

afternoontea, who are you? You’ve READ the torture papers? Dratel is a close friend of mine…how did you become so educated on this issue?


September 9th, 2009
6:43 pm

NetBanker Good thought re the Abrahamic Gods. How does the God of Islam, the God of Judaism & the God of Jesus beat himself to a pulp?

And I thought he said “Thou shalt not kill”, but I guess he did not.

John Adams

September 9th, 2009
7:21 pm

Yes Dave, that would include you. Don’t worry though, “God” will save you…….

Chris Salzmann

September 9th, 2009
8:36 pm

Birther or Bust September 9th, 2009 12:07 pm SAID: Sorry Bob, Cheney is a GREAT American! I wish the pod people that took the Bob Barr from the 1990’s, that I respected, would bring him back.

CHRIS SAYS: Calling Cheney a GREAT American is like calling Hitler a GREAT German. What rubbish!

Chris Salzmann

September 9th, 2009
8:44 pm

Sunshine and Thunder September 9th, 2009 11:37 am SAID: Investigate the CIA for sleep deprivation, loud music, waterboarding? None of these is life threatening – just uncomfortable.

CHRIS SAYS: So why did we prosecute individuals from other countries for waterboarding? In fact, we prosecuted American soldiers during the Vietnam war for exactly this. Why hasn’t Sean Hannity undergone the experience as he said he would? You don’t know crap.

gloom and doomer

September 9th, 2009
9:21 pm

“Cheney should e allowed to do whatever he wants to keep us free.”

Bob from Dahlonega:

In order to keep us free, you and your family are being shipped off to an undisclosed location (sound familiar?) for an indeterminate period. Sorry, but VP Cheney had determined it was necessary before he left office. Thanks for doing your part.

Deborah Fetkovich

September 9th, 2009
10:14 pm

I’m disappointed that you misrepresent Mr. Cheney’s reasons for his anger at Mr. Obama. The legality of the CIA actions isn’t in question under any applicable US laws. Eric Holder can create a witchhunt, but he doesn’t have a constitutional rationale for doing so; therefore, he’s abusing his power by using it for strictly political motivation. Most Americans are outraged and appalled.

President Bush authorized enhanced interrogations by the CIA after receiving approval from the Office of Legal Council and after informing bipartisan congressional leaders — none of whom expressed any reservations. The training the CIA interrogators received included being subjected themselves to waterboarding.

Mr. Obama, just days before being sworn in, reassured the CIA that there would be no investigation and he was only “moving forward”. His actions have created impotence within the CIA and placed our nation at great risk. Dick Cheney is a man who spent the better part of the last 8 years worrying every day that another terrorist attack might occur — a thought that no one in the Obama administration seems to take seriously. Here’s some of Dick Cheney’s comments and the root cause of his anger:

“Cheney pointed to Obama’s decision last week to assert White House control over a newly formed unit that will interrogate terrorists. The new arrangement shifts control of such interrogations away from the CIA and toward the FBI, although oversight will be exercised by the National Security Council, which is located in the White House and reports directly to the president.

Administration officials are vague about which agency will retain ultimate authority. Obama spokesman Bill Burton initially said the new unit “will report to the director of the FBI,” although the Justice Department, which encompasses the FBI, insisted the unit is “not a sub-unit of the FBI or the Justice Department.”

Burton explained: “Just like other interagency processes, if there are disagreements, the different agencies are able to come together and make a decision.”

Cheney ridiculed the new unit, which will be known as the High-Value Detainee Interrogation Group (HIG).

“It’s not even clear who’s responsible,” he marveled. “The Justice Department is, then they claim they aren’t. The FBI is responsible, and they claim they aren’t. It’s some kind of interagency process by which they’re going to be responsible for interrogating high-value detainees.”

John Adams

September 10th, 2009
2:04 am

Oh Goodie! a link for FOX news! It must be true!


September 10th, 2009
7:07 am

He should just be thankful they aren’t investigating what he was doing as the head of NORAD on sept 11 2001, among a million other things that we as Americans should be up in arms about That so many of us closed our eyes and coward as we were wagged into war by the secret government sponsored murdering of the Americans and 100’s of other nationalities that fattened the blood lined wallets of these criminals is disgusting. Why didn’t anyone demand an explanation of why the SEC deputized people regarding the put and call options before 9/11 so that they would never have to answer to the government or the american people which allowed the director of the


September 10th, 2009
7:16 am

CIA (3rd in command actually) and countless other government officials and madoffs of this country to profit from the blood of the people is simply amazing, pitiful, cowardice, and right wing republican. I’m glad to be an american atheist who won’t have to answer for this countries greed and murder to a God who apparently has been asleep at the wheel for 1970 or so years. wake up dude there so evil s#$t going on down here and you need to get off your fat ass!


September 10th, 2009
7:24 am

Deborah, the office of legal counsel was made to resubmit its legal definition at least 4 times to cheney and rumsfeld, if your going to source something at least put it all on the table, the counsel was made very clear that that they had to do what was asked and not what was the law. They were fully aware of the geneva codes and and were within the guidelines on the first and second submittal’s but rumsfeld and cheney made them go farther!

Sunshine and Thunder

September 10th, 2009
1:36 pm

CHRIS SALZMAN SAYS: “So why did we prosecute individuals from other countries for waterboarding? In fact, we prosecuted American soldiers during the Vietnam war for exactly this. Why hasn’t Sean Hannity undergone the experience as he said he would? You don’t know crap.”

Are you making this up as you go along Chris? Who did we prosecute for exactly this during Vietnam?

Chris Salzmann

September 10th, 2009
8:58 pm

Sunshine and Thunder September 10th, 2009 1:36 pm SAID: Are you making this up as you go along Chris? Who did we prosecute for exactly this during Vietnam?

CHRIS SAYS: From Wikipedia under Waterboarding in Vietnam: “Waterboarding was designated as illegal by U.S. generals in the Vietnam War.[109] On January 21, 1968, The Washington Post published a controversial front-page photograph of two U.S soldiers and one South Vietnamese soldier participating in the waterboarding of a North Vietnamese POW near Da Nang.[110] The article described the practice as “fairly common”.[110] The photograph led to the soldier being court-martialled by a U.S. military court within one month of its publication, and he was discharged from the army”.

You were saying about making stuff up?

Chris Salzmann

September 10th, 2009
9:13 pm

Oh, forgot this one, also from Wikipedia. “”In 1983 Texas sheriff James Parker and three of his deputies were convicted for conspiring to force confessions. The complaint said they “subject prisoners to a suffocating water torture ordeal in order to coerce confessions. This generally included the placement of a towel over the nose and mouth of the prisoner and the pouring of water in the towel until the prisoner began to move, jerk, or otherwise indicate that he was suffocating and/or drowning”.[104] The sheriff was sentenced to ten years in prison, and the deputies to four years.[104][111]“”

Read it all for yourself at


September 10th, 2009
11:47 pm

For once, Bob Barr comes down on the right side of an issue.

Has anyone mentioned that we executed Japanese soldiers who waterboarded American POWs during WW2?