Watch lists, guns and government

The secret government “Terrorist Watch List,” reportedly already swelled to more than 1.1 million names, will have an addendum, if gun control advocates in Congress have their way. This new addendum — also to be cloaked in secrecy — would empower the U.S. Attorney General to deny a person the ability to exercise their Second Amendment rights to purchase a firearm.

While it is not surprising that some members of Congress are again using fear of terrorism to implement a gun-control agenda, the openly unconstitutional legislative language proponents are employing is troubling.

Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.) is leading the effort in the Senate, while another well-known gun control advocate — Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.) — is directing the House initiative. They have introduced identical bills — the “Denying Firearms and Explosives to Dangerous Terrorists Act of 2009.” This proposal would give the attorney general the power to unilaterally and in secret develop a watch list of persons believed to be unworthy of possessing a firearm or any explosive.

This new “dangerous terrorist” watch list would include names based not on hard evidence of criminal activity, but on nothing more than the subjective conclusion by the attorney general that a person is “appropriately suspected” (whatever that means) of engaging in some manner of assisting or preparing for acts of domestic or international terrorism. The American people would never be privy to what criteria might be employed by the attorney general to determine whether someone is an “appropriate suspect,” and they would have no way of knowing why they might be denied the ability to purchase a firearm.

If a person were to be refused “permission” to purchase a firearm or explosive, and if they subsequently filed a lawsuit in federal court to find out why, the government still could keep such information secret. In other words, the attorney general could deny a U.S. citizen the ability to own a firearm, and never have to give the reason.

For legislators like Lautenberg and King, who apparently have absolute faith in unelected government officials to make the right decisions for the right reasons at the right times (and never be required to explain those decisions), one has only to consider the checkered history of post-9/11 “terrorist” watch lists to see the folly of such perspective. Stories abound of persons denied the ability to board a commercial aircraft, or greatly delayed in being allowed on board, for no reason other than their name erroneously appeared on some “watch list.” Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.), and Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.), have been among this not-so-elite group.

A report earlier this year by the FBI’s inspector general chronicled extensive internal problems with the terrorist watch list maintained by that agency. The IG found numerous examples of inaccuracies, incomplete entries, out-of-date information and inclusion of information “unrelated to terrorism.” While the inconvenience of not being able to board an airliner for a business trip or a vacation can be a real headache, being refused the ability to purchase a firearm to protect one’s life clearly raises the stakes.

The government already has remedies already at its disposal to keep firearms out of the hands of known or suspected terrorists. Under existing federal law, there are numerous categories of persons prohibited from purchasing or possessing firearms; including persons in violation of immigration laws, convicted felons, illicit drug users and others. And if a person truly is a known or suspected terrorist, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives — as the federal law enforcement agency primarily responsible for enforcing the nation’s gun laws — certainly should be made aware of that information. We don’t need a secret, anti-Second Amendment watch list to implement effective law enforcement in America.

124 comments Add your comment

John

July 1st, 2009
9:04 pm

I am not afraid of the enemy out side of the United States. I am very afraid of our very own government. They are doing more damage to our freedoms than any outside influence/enemy could ever do. And it is all in the name of change.

Bruce Hudeck

July 1st, 2009
9:29 pm

I have enough firearms and ammunition to to last several lifetimes already. All law abiding citizens need to have at least one handgun,shotgun,and rifle with “at least” 1000 rounds of ammo for each.

Fed Up.

July 1st, 2009
9:51 pm

Regardless of what party you belong to. ANY politician that is not willing to protect our constitution to the fullest, is one we need to vote out of congress. PERIOD!

Instead of fighting each other debating this fact, we need to be flooding our elected officials with mail, email, and phone calls to demand that they protect our freedoms as outlined by the constitution.

Anything less, is unAmerican!

TRUTH

July 2nd, 2009
1:08 am

Homeland Security reported on mainstram news not too long ago that gun owners,constitutionalists,lebertarians,Ron Paul supporters(Ron Paul is a strict constitutionalist),supposed right wing extremists, and disgruntled returning veterans were the #1 security threat to America. Answer me. Why is this? Why is the government putting out this propaganda? Why are people who want liberty,freedom, and who want to see our beloved constitution upheld ,demonized as the new enemy. “Those who are willing to sacrifice liberty for security deserve niether”. Sound familiar? It’s a quote from one of our founding fathers. Guess who? The Patriot Act is not Patriotic! Here is another one for you. ” A private bank issueing the public currency (the federal reserve) is a greater menace to the liberties of the people than a standing army”. Wake up America!

Richard Norton

July 2nd, 2009
2:54 am

Godhatestrash, Superstar, you my friend are a certified idiot. That said if you ever called me a coward to my face like you did on here, you would be in need of one of those face transplants, with teeth and all. While serving 37 years in the US Army I guess I became a “gun nut” but people like you never say things like to to a man’s face because you are the coward.
And GayLiberal (great name by the way) you also are a POS, the truth is we needed to find that pair of balls years earlier and start kicking ass in this world, and Saddam was a good place to start.
Phatdog, are you really a fat dog, as a felon you lost all your rights when you were convicted, the only people I feel sorry for are the poor jerks that were convicted, or plead guilty to, a minor slap in the face of his wife, that was made retro-active by the wonderful and upstanding President Clinton cannot now own or buy a gun.
And tool yeah lets go all the way to being a Police State, maybe we should call each other comrade? Lets get the national ID cards out to prove who is and who isn’t a criminal.

John in Texas

July 2nd, 2009
9:19 am

Oka folks, if we have lawmakers that will not honor our constitution then we need to prohibit them from holding office. These people are bold, and are openly defining our constitution, show them the door. This is against our law! What is wrong with the voters?

SaveOurRepublic

July 2nd, 2009
9:19 am

TRUTH @ 1:08 AM (7/2) – It’s great to see another enlightened individual responding on this blog. The Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) labeled supporters of 3rd party candidates (Dr.Paul, Chuck Baldwin (Constitution Party) & Mr.Barr), pro-life activists & other strict Constitutionalist as potentially violent “terrorists”, etc. Due the negative exposure/feedback, the MIAC summarization was eventually retracted. These Fed funded Fusion Centers are just another mechanism of the growing Orwellian police state.

The so-called “Patriot”, John Warner Defense Authorization & Military Commissions acts ALL shredded our God ordained Constitutional rights (by design). IMO, the Globalist Neocons are just as traitorous to the Republic as the Marxist Dems (as they’re controlled by the same Ma$ters). BTW, Dr.Paul & Chuck Baldwin are true American patriots IMO. I’ve the upmost respect & appreciate for Dr.Paul & Baldwin.

http://www.infowars.com

The REAL GodHatesTrash, Superstar

July 2nd, 2009
1:12 pm

Let’s face it. Even congenital idiots can pull the trigger of a gun, so gun ownership/usage is not an intelligence test.

Interesting what happened here – I post a contrary opinion about guns, and the angry gunnut psychos come out of the woodwork, some wanting to fight me in cyberspace. Sort of proving my point that most gunnuts lack the emotional stability and maturity to safely handle dangerous weapons.

Stupid, angry people with guns pose a threat to other people, their families, and themselves.

This cannot be denied, not even by the stupid. This is the real world, not somewhere where people tell you where to go to work, when to eat and sleep, how to wear your uniform; there is no one to lead you around by the nose and make sure you have a place to sleep and meals to eat, no one you have to salute and grovel before. It’s scary for some, but you can make it without all the bullets.

TRUTH

July 2nd, 2009
1:53 pm

Real Godhates Trash said “This cannot be denied, not even by the stupid. This is the real world, not somewhere where people tell you where to go to work, when to eat and sleep, how to wear your uniform; there is no one to lead you around by the nose and make sure you have a place to sleep and meals to eat, no one you have to salute and grovel before. It’s scary for some, but you can make it without all the bullets.”

Although you make a valid point that yes there are unfortunately idiots out there that give responsible gun owners a bad name.

Waht you just spoke of is something that will happen unless we stand up to the corruption in our government. Not through armed revolt but through educating and getting the people to come together to stang for true liberty and freedom. Its not about left or right anymore. And there is a reason why our founding father’s gave us the rule of law, the Constitution. To ensure government does not become tyrannical.

Bill

July 2nd, 2009
2:14 pm

A constitutional right can be validly curtailed only to the extent that it conflicts with carrying out some other constitutional right, i.e. denying the right to bear arms to someone under constitutional restraint (prison, under arrest) would be valid because to allow otherwise would potentially defeat that restraint. It would also be valid in the interests of public well-being, an implied constitutional concern, to deny firearms rights to mental defectives and others shown to be lacking the judgment to safely own firearms. All this would be because of individual conditions or circumstances, not because of being in some class, i.e. felon. The Tenth Amendment says that unless the constitution specifically authorizes the government to do something, it cannot do it; the Second Amendment says that the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; the Fourteenth Amendment says that everyone is entitled to the equal protection of the laws. In a nutshell: felons, as such, cannot be denied Second Amendment rights. What is so difficult to understand about this?

Jason MacGregor

July 5th, 2009
11:51 am

You know what’s interesting? I have never seen ANYONE stand up to say, “hey! what about DUE PROCESS?” Does this not sound anything like a direct violation of Due Process? Or are we all idiots?

NascarDave39

July 5th, 2009
2:23 pm

The REAL GodHatesTrash, Superstar

July 2nd, 2009
1:12 pm
Let’s face it. Even congenital idiots can pull the trigger of a gun, so gun ownership/usage is not an intelligence test.

Interesting what happened here – I post a contrary opinion about guns, and the angry gunnut psychos come out of the woodwork, some wanting to fight me in cyberspace. Sort of proving my point that most gunnuts lack the emotional stability and maturity to safely handle dangerous weapons.

Stupid, angry people with guns pose a threat to other people, their families, and themselves.

This cannot be denied, not even by the stupid. This is the real world, not somewhere where people tell you where to go to work, when to eat and sleep, how to wear your uniform; there is no one to lead you around by the nose and make sure you have a place to sleep and meals to eat, no one you have to salute and grovel before. It’s scary for some, but you can make it without all the bullets.

——-

That 1 firearm owner in 10,000 will commit an act of violence in his or her lifetime, and this is far more frightening than the 25% of drivers who will cause a serious or fatal accident.

That the depressed and emotionally disturbed should not be allowed to own guns that shoot bullets with 250 ft-lbs of energy, but should be allowed to own 4000 lb cars with 1,136,000 ft-lbs of energy (at 65 mph).

That among the hundreds of documented cases against anti-gun freaks we note that: the press secretary of Handgun Control was arrested in DC for discharging an illegal handgun, a ranking regional officer of the Million Moron March was convicted of felony assault, and other Million Morons in Colorado have been arrested for attacking firearm dealers and activists, but “gun nuts” are “obsessed with violence.”

That because of the bombing at Oklahoma City and the knife-point hijacking on September 11, we should take guns away from people who weren’t involved.

That intelligent people should support gun control because they realize they are too stupid to be trusted with guns.

That if honest people give up their weapons, the criminals and dictators will give up theirs, as Chicago street gangs and Hitler have demonstrated.

That only the government should control guns, just as only the government should control broadcasting, and only the government should control religion.

That we should deal with the problem of criminals using illegal weapons by taking lawful weapons away from honest people.

That gun owners are “potential terrorists,” because they have all the necessary equipment, just like Sarah Brady is a “potential hooker,” because she has all the necessary equipment.

That ordinary people, in the presence of guns, turn into slaughtering butchers, and revert to normal when the weapon is removed.

NascarDave39

July 5th, 2009
2:56 pm

The REAL GodHatesTrash, Superstar

June 29th, 2009
1:17 pm
Unfortunately, most gunnuts are sick people, easily led. Fortunately, most of them are physical cowards, hiding behind their guns for even the most innocuous, day to day interactions with other people.

Fondling their weapons is usually enough to keep them happy.

—–

That 1 firearm owner in 10,000 will commit an act of violence in his or her lifetime, and this is far more frightening than the 25% of drivers who will cause a serious or fatal accident.

That among the hundreds of documented cases against anti-gun freaks we note that: the press secretary of Handgun Control was arrested in DC for discharging an illegal handgun, a ranking regional officer of the Million Moron March was convicted of felony assault, and other Million Morons in Colorado have been arrested for attacking firearm dealers and activists, but “gun nuts” are “obsessed with violence.”

That people buy guns as “substitute penises,” because they know that only people with small penises ever get attacked by criminals.

That a gun is merely an inadequate substitute for a penis, so when attacked by a mugger one should pull out a…

That a gun is a symbolic penis…what this has to do with defending one’s life I have no idea. It simply serves to prove that anti-defense psychiatrists clearly have Freudian issues that THEY need to address.

That people who own guns out of a fear of crime are paranoid, but people who don’t want other people to own guns in case it causes them to commit crimes are rational.

That guns are the gravest threat to society because 83,000,000 gun owners didn’t commit a crime yesterday.

That you don’t need a gun, therefore no one needs one, and you have the right to impose that belief and will on others.

That according to Diane Whinestein, there is no left-wing conspiracy to send police and troops to imprison American gun owners, but there is a vast, right-wing conspiracy of gun owners who must be disarmed for attempting to stop it.

That gun owners are all ignorant and stupid, but nevertheless belong to a huge, well-organized conspiracy that exists to destroy the nation.

That guns cause crime, even though crime has been shown to drop in areas with higher levels of gun ownership, and to rise where guns are restricted. This is due to “other factors.” We should ignore those other factors and ban guns.

That a gun is a symbolic penis, and the person telling you this is a psychiatrist who drives a BMW.

NascarDave39

July 5th, 2009
3:03 pm

NascarDave39

July 5th, 2009
2:56 pm
The REAL GodHatesTrash, Superstar

June 29th, 2009
1:17 pm
Unfortunately, most gunnuts are sick people, easily led. Fortunately, most of them are physical cowards, hiding behind their guns for even the most innocuous, day to day interactions with other people.

Fondling their weapons is usually enough to keep them happy.

—–

That 1 firearm owner in 10,000 will commit an act of violence in his or her lifetime, and this is far more frightening than the 25% of drivers who will cause a serious or fatal accident.

That among the hundreds of documented cases against anti-gun freaks we note that: the press secretary of Handgun Control was arrested in DC for discharging an illegal handgun, a ranking regional officer of the Million Moron March was convicted of felony assault, and other Million Morons in Colorado have been arrested for attacking firearm dealers and activists, but “gun nuts” are “obsessed with violence.”

That people buy guns as “substitute penises,” because they know that only people with small penises ever get attacked by criminals.

That a gun is merely an inadequate substitute for a penis, so when attacked by a mugger one should pull out a…

That a gun is a symbolic penis…what this has to do with defending one’s life I have no idea. It simply serves to prove that anti-defense psychiatrists clearly have Freudian issues that THEY need to address.

That people who own guns out of a fear of crime are paranoid, but people who don’t want other people to own guns in case it causes them to commit crimes are rational.

That guns are the gravest threat to society because 83,000,000 gun owners didn’t commit a crime yesterday.

That you don’t need a gun, therefore no one needs one, and you have the right to impose that belief and will on others.

That according to Diane Whinestein, there is no left-wing conspiracy to send police and troops to imprison American gun owners, but there is a vast, right-wing conspiracy of gun owners who must be disarmed for attempting to stop it.

That gun owners are all ignorant and stupid, but nevertheless belong to a huge, well-organized conspiracy that exists to destroy the nation.

That guns cause crime, even though crime has been shown to drop in areas with higher levels of gun ownership, and to rise where guns are restricted. This is due to “other factors.” We should ignore those other factors and ban guns.

That a gun is a symbolic penis, and the person telling you this is a psychiatrist who drives a BMW.

That hate is not a family value, but all gun owners are tobacco-chawin’, beer-swillin’, racist, redneck bubbas.

NascarDave39

July 5th, 2009
3:20 pm

Terry

June 29th, 2009
3:15 pm
Barr is at it again, the man is known for scaring the simple minded with his anti Democratic propaganda. The only people who should be scared of gun control are the ones who are criminals and mentally unstable, otherwise you have nothing to worry about except the power of the NRA. Any lobby that has so much power over our country’s leadership should be feared. The Patriot act stripped us of more freedom and liberty than anything since the 1860’s
—————–

That the Patriot Act, allowing the government to obtain library or bookstore records as “an important tool for investigating and intercepting terrorism’ even though they haven’t done so is morally repugnant, but banning assault weapons that haven’t been used in crime IS “An important tool for fighting crime and terrorism.”

David O

July 6th, 2009
1:36 am

Quoted by TW “Besides, why not let the dems have a shot at driving the ‘fear of terrorism’ train? After all, while the GOP had the lead they used it to invade a country that had nothing to do with terrorism, as well as line the pockets of their buds at Blackwater, Halliburton, etc”
It is exactly this type of stupidity that is going to ruin this nation and turn the U.S. into another worthless European Clone…Wake up people…The wolf is at the door and it is time to take action….We need to begin by Impeaching Obama!

steve

July 6th, 2009
9:23 am

COME AND TAKE IT

cwc

July 9th, 2009
4:42 pm

Many good Americans have died to have the freedoms we enjoy. It is firghtening that people in government would take our freedoms away from us. They should work to insure greater freedom, not to restrict freedom. The day law abiding citizens are not allowed to carry firearms will be the end of our freedom. We need a watch list for “freedom takers” mostly elected government officials and the liberal people they employee for the government.

JohnfromWheatonIllinois

July 9th, 2009
5:30 pm

I’ve never posted any comments here before, but after reading everyone else’s comments it’s obvious that the majority of people really do see what’s happening to our great country. Our’s is a very unique country with our Constitution and Bill of Rights, that “no other ” country has. There are governments all over the world cursing us because their people dream of our freedoms everyday and wish they could live here.

It’s no surprise that the so called United Nations wants to influence “our” laws by putting their two cents in regrading gun control in this country. We are the one bright light in the world standing in the way of those that wish for a World Government that has control over EVERYONE.

People who don’t see this yet need to step back and not get sucked into Tunnelvision. This isn’t about which party you belong to. Try to see the entire picture of what’s happening around the world, and you’ll understand what Obama and his sidekicks are trying to pull off.

[...] it they can control almost all areas of our lives. They will have the Green Police checking houses. Watch lists, guns and government 06/29/09 All the Fascist governments had watch lists. The Fascists rule by fear and want to keep [...]

The Mantis

July 10th, 2009
1:27 pm

“A gun in the hands of a bad man is a very dangerous thing. A gun in the hands of a good person is no danger to anyone except the bad guys.”

~ Charlton Heston, 1997

[...] Watch lists, guns and government [...]

Ron

July 30th, 2009
2:13 pm

This si why we have the second amendment, to prevent the governemt from doing things like this. This governemt is way out of control and they need to have their butts kicked out of office, ALL of them because they are no longer working FOR THE PEOPLE of this country but instead working to gain total control over it’s people. They can have my guns when they pry them out of my cold dead fingers! The people of this country need to get off their butts and take countrol of this government before it IS to late.. Once the government takes our guns away completely, it will be to late and the only people that will be to blame is ourselves for letting them do it.. And that right there is the problem.. Everyone complains about it but no one is willing to do ANYTHING about it!!!!

barbara winton

August 11th, 2009
3:44 pm

Though many people commit crimes, gun control will never work.Who gave our Authorities the right to twist the Constitution to better fit THIER agends?Sadly the Constitution is being raped over and over and with no end in sight.As such,the Government needs to take the original Constitution out of its vault and rip it up.It is a worthlessly stripped document and the Museum needs to stop making money off false promises as well.