Secession talk far from extreme

Although he later downplayed his remark, Texas Gov. Rick Perry’s use of the “S” word — secession — during one of the April 15 tea parties has focused attention on the growing gulf between the dramatic, unprecedented growth in the federal government’s power and spending, and efforts by individual states to maintain independent authority.
Any reference, however vague, to the notion that one of the 50 states might actually consider cutting the ties between it and Washington evokes howls of derision from the political establishment.

But the growing grass-roots sentiment that dramatic action is necessary to restore a semblance of balanced federalism in the country makes it likely such discussion will increase.

The fact that Perry also noted that some military veterans in the crowd at Austin might be “right-wing extremists” also reflected the growing chasm between government and citizens opposed to runaway federal spending and power.

The governor’s reference, echoed in other tea parties last week, was based on the fact that federal and state government law enforcement Web sites and publications characterize grass-roots organizations concerned about gun control, nationalization, unemployment, loss of civil liberties and excessive government spending, as “right-wing extremists” and “militants.”

That people would be viewed by our government as a possible threat because they express concern for the loss of freedom and our growing economic problems is itself so bizarre that references to secession are unsurprising.

Placing Perry’s remarks in the context of his position the previous day in support of a Texas state House resolution reaffirming support for the 10th Amendment strengthens the reasonableness of his position. On April 14, Perry expressed his “unwavering support for efforts all across our country to reaffirm the states’ rights affirmed by the 10th Amendment.”

He also noted that he and “millions of Texans are tired of Washington, D.C., trying to come down here and tell us how to run Texas.” Are such views “extreme”? Do they not, rather, reflect mainstream and historically accurate sentiments? After all, is not the resolution Perry supported simply a reaffirmation of the very words of and the philosophy underlying the 10th Amendment?

Much of the media, in addition to characterizing Perry’s comments as “reckless” (the words of one Texas newspaper), also have attempted to paint such views as economically irresponsible. This view is premised on the “loss” of federal funds that would befall Texas or any other state that might sever ties to Washington. In fact, many of the 50 states send more in tax dollars to Washington than the states and its citizens receive from the feds — making secession actually not that bad a business deal (Texas about breaks even).

In fact, the sky likely would not fall if some serious moves were made to break the stranglehold the federal government now maintains on virtually every aspect of state and local governments. There are, in fact, some examples starting to surface. The RealID program, with its mandate of a national identification card, has been brought largely to a standstill because of state opposition.

And at least a few states — Texas and South Carolina among them — are refusing President Barack Obama’s “stimulus monies” because of the strings attached.
Who knows? If Texas were to secede, the state might enjoy a significant inward migration of independent-minded citizens from other states, and precipitate a real boom in its economy.

Regardless, simply musing about such things, as did the Texas governor, is neither subversive nor pointless.

120 comments Add your comment

Tomhere

April 22nd, 2009
9:07 am

Great idea, Bob. I’ve said the same thing about Alaska. Let them become their own nation. Those who wish can move to either Texas or Alaska. They can do whatever they want, they can set up a theocracy, or a monarchy, if that’s what they want.
In the case of Texas we’ll just move OUR border north and set-up new border crossings at the highways. Then they’ll be responsible for policing the current border. No problem with Alaska, as Canada will have to police their current borders.

Ron Roberts

April 22nd, 2009
9:21 am

Go ahead, Governor Perry, secede; we’ll set up our border patrols around YOUR border and let YOU deal with illegal immigration concerns within your own ’soveriegn border.’ That’ll basically cut OUR immigration problems in half – so we both win, right? Let’s see how you deal with that.

But remember, when you secede, don’t pick up the phone to call us when the NEXT hurricane comes barreling towards Houston/Galveston, either, okay? I mean, your state CLEARLY showed an ability to evacuate in a timely fashion (note: sarcasm) when Hurricane Rita came at Houston.

And remember, when you secede, you’ll have no federal highway funding, school funding, either; your military bases will no longer be economic engines to their nearby communities, we’ll have to move NASA out of Houston, too.

I’m sure you’ll do fine, though.

I’m SICK and tired of this “lose, take your ball, and go home” mentality out of the right. Did you hear liberals in the northeast speak of secession, depsite eight years of moronic leadership by Bush? Hypocrisy.

bubbatech02

April 22nd, 2009
9:22 am

term limits.

Californication

April 22nd, 2009
9:25 am

I think Texas should use its power not to secede but to break up into 5 states, all Republican, or maybe some independents. Boy that would really make the liberals wet their pants. LOL

CHRISnATL

April 22nd, 2009
9:27 am

This is so ridiculous. I guess if the people of Texas don’t get their way they will just not play anymore. Texas needs to grow up and get over themselves. We ought to give them what they want and 6 months into their new nationhood they will start realizing just how very much support they do get from the federal government. Secession is illegal. We have had this fight before. Talk like this coming from a governor must be a scary thing for the non-extremist who do live in Texas.

Adam C

April 22nd, 2009
9:27 am

I find the hypocrisy of the right more dangerous every day! Where were these so called conservatives with the Patriot Act was signed? How about the warrantless wiretaps? Or the Terry Schiavo intervention? Oh yeah…they were calling anyone who disagreed with them godless traitors who should leave the country! Hypocrites and dangerous extremists to boot!

Daedalus

April 22nd, 2009
9:35 am

When the GOP controlled the White House and Congress — Republicans sneered at anyone who disagreed with Bush, Rove and Cheney as unpatriotic, unamerican and equated them with terrorists.

After a remarkable run of misrule — Americans tossed out the GOP and voted for the Democratic Party. The GOPs response: buy guns, secede from the United States, call anyone who disagrees with you a communist, socialist, facist.

No wonder the GOP has become the party of the angry white southern male.

Spoke

April 22nd, 2009
9:38 am

Concern about right-wing extremists is entirely reasonable and realistic. Some of us remember the Oklahoma City bombing.

Bob

April 22nd, 2009
9:54 am

Yea and amen. As Lincoln said as a Senator, “The right of secession is fundamental to liberty.”

JEFF KOOPERSMITH

April 22nd, 2009
9:56 am

Bob – you know the kind of people elected to state and local government – and no one knows the congress better – do you really think that it’s not a good idea to keep a stranglehold on state and local government? You cite “the growing grass-roots sentiment that dramatic action is necessary ” – but we all know what John Locke, the father of western education, said about the grass roots “The masses are asses” – and that’s what the GOP has been counting on for over 25 years. Maybe the masses are wising up. I could just see Texas seceding – Next, a 200% tariff on everything it produces! In two months – it would be Little Cuba.

The Alpha Male

April 22nd, 2009
10:19 am

Loud-mouthed liberals as usual spout opinions without knowing the facts….. as recently as 2007, the great state of New Hampshire, as liberal as they come, espoused the virtues of state sovereignty and even formed a political party aimed at constitutionally SECEDING FROM THE UNION because they felt the nation was too far right!!

If your going to be a blathering idiot, Ron….. at least do so with a smidgeon of actual fact.

Drew

April 22nd, 2009
10:27 am

You know, as a former Texan, there are a lot of concerns I might have for an independent Texas… border security is NOT one of them. And it would be telling if suddenly the Democrats got serious about border security, trying to keep conservative, productive, English-speaking Texans out of America.

TheTruth

April 22nd, 2009
10:27 am

Californication, you are almost right, the documents drafted when Texas joined the union, assured them the right to divide into FOUR separate states.
Algonquin, his skin color mattered more to the MANY racists that voted simply because he was black . . . then it does to those that oppose his policies – purple with green polka dots still wouldn’t make those any more attractive.

BPJ

April 22nd, 2009
10:32 am

Without Texas (and its 2 GOP Senators), the Senate would have 98 members, and Democrats would already have a veto-proof majority (even without a senator from Wisconsin). Bye, Texas!

Please Succeed

April 22nd, 2009
10:43 am

I think Texas should succeed, as long as they take Florida with them. As a matter of fact, as much trouble as Texas has caused this great nation of OURS by having the worst president we have ever had being born and raised in their state – they need to to PAY us to get out of dodge. Calling your bluff Texas – don’t mess with us or you might find yourself without a country! (And once we go green, your oil won’t be worth anything!)

ricket

April 22nd, 2009
10:44 am

Youre all being baited. This isnt about Left vs. Right or Liberal vs. Conservative. This is about those who control our money (the private banksters) and those that dont (the American public). The root cause of all of our nation’s problems lies in the very fact that our financial system is one giant scam. The principal + interest of every loan issued by a bank (in our current *closed* financial system) is far greater than the actual principal amount ever created, which renders every single loan MATHEMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to pay back. Since banks only create the principal (and never the interest to “service” it), then the money to pay the interest comes from yet another loan.

People of the United States, get your head on straight and let’s focus on the real terrorists in this country. The ones who control our financial system through the Federal Reserve are the real culprits, and you are being derailed into a Left vs. Right argument.

Support H.R. 1207 and AUDIT THE FEDERAL RESERVE to find out where 12 trillion dollars of our money has gone (read up on TALF, Maiden Lane I, Maiden Lane II, etc). The 787 billion “bailout” is NOTHING compared to those.

Red Foreman

April 22nd, 2009
10:47 am

I fera a civil war between conservatives and libtards is on the way…the libtards will lose cause they cant defend themselves…

Glenn

April 22nd, 2009
10:51 am

The governor’s reference, echoed in other tea parties last week, was based on the fact that federal and state government law enforcement Web sites and publications characterize grass-roots organizations concerned about gun control, nationalization, unemployment, loss of civil liberties and excessive government spending, as “right-wing extremists” and “militants.”

The governor won’t be taken seriously & most grass roots organizations won’t be either . Not because their concerns aren’t valid but because all of these concerns Rick Perry lists started under a republican president from Texas . For better or worse without any acknowledgment of that all of this current uproar will never gain any real traction . As an independent I find that scary .

Jefferson

April 22nd, 2009
10:51 am

Let the guard go “Kent State” on em’.

Steven Daedalus

April 22nd, 2009
11:08 am

I say “Don’t let the door hit you in the back when you leave.” Texas is the nearest nothing place there ever was, and any group of people who would elect Sarah Palin, into any office, has to be seriously challenged. Bye, bye and good riiddance.

Chuck

April 22nd, 2009
11:11 am

Hey, Bob, just remember that the decision to investigate Right Wing extremists was made by the administration of Governor Perry’s predecessor in Texas. The orders on border patrol were made by his predecessor. The original TARP legislation was signed by his predecessor.

As others have pointed out, where were these “grassroots” organizations complaining about civil liberties when the Governor Perry’s predecessor was signing the Patriot Act?

Did you conveniently forget that on April 3, SC Governor Sanford finally relented and started accepting stimulus funds because he didn’t want other states getting South Carolina’s share? It was a RINO Governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, who said he would be happy to take it. Principle only went so far with Mr. Sanford.

Finally, as for possible ex-military Right Wing extremists…you do realize that Timothy McVeigh served in the 1st Infantry Division and Eric Rudolph was in the 101st Airborne, don’t you? No one is saying every former serviceman is a future bomber any more than every environmentalist is one either. I’m just saying that Rudolph and Ted Kaczynski just happen to both be serving time in SuperMax together. In the criminal justice system, both men are domestic terrorists.

gttim

April 22nd, 2009
11:20 am

As soon as they pay off their share of the federal debt, let them go. They have been sucking more money out of the federal system then they put in. Move our military and government facilities out, and let them have a go of it without federal support. Oh, and we keep SXSW. I wish we could keep Austin, but that would be too hard. The good folks there can move before we shut the border down.

The Baron

April 22nd, 2009
11:21 am

If Rick Perry and his ilk do not like anything that’s happening right now, that’s fine. That’s why The US is a democracy. They can campaign for their ideas and run on them in future elections and get themselves a majority of the votes. But to start threatening secession less than 100 days into the term of a newly elected federal government is not just peurile, it is laughable. Where was Rick Perry in the last 8 years? In Mars?

I think their problem is not really about spending as they claim. After all, the Obama administration apart from reducing the tax burden on the vast majority of Americans only plans to adjust the top tax bracket’s rate upwards to what it was under Clinton- less than it was under Reagan! So what’s the basis for all this secession showmanship? Is it about Obama? Or rather, isn’t it?

Wake Up

April 22nd, 2009
11:21 am

Folks on this blog need a history lesson. I don’t always agree with Barr, but he’s right (and I don’t mean political leaning) on this one. This region (including Texas) and a large portion of individuals don’t consider this a “left and right” issue any longer when it comes to size of government. History will clearly show that the central issue is one of self determination and the idea that a large federal government can be an obstruction to individual freedoms and growth and prosperity for rich AND poor. If that sounds ‘GOP’ to anyone, go back a few decades and you’ll see the same groups making the same arguments and voting solid democrat. Both parties have failed MISERABLY in protecting individuals from an overbearing government — with one party pressing the gas pedal and the other party riding in the passenger seat. We do not feel represented and we’re mad (yes, I count myself, a doctoral level scientist and voter who doesnt even own a gun — don’t try to paint us as dumb rednecks). What is our recourse? YELLING and protesting that we’re fed up with this, and hoping we have someone worth voting for soon. I don’t want to hear anything about whining — especially from big-government proponents who until now have cornerned the market on protests and shakedowns. You’re just not used to competing for poster board and sidewalk space. Get used to it — more on the way.

Just Nasty & Mean

April 22nd, 2009
11:21 am

If we could only get the dysfunctional, mismanaged, screwed up states to secede, like California, Michigan, New York, Mass., Kansas, Illinois.

Notice anything these have in common? DEMOCRAPS! UNIONS!

I know, I know, Arnold says he is a Republican. But anyone with half a brain knows different. Maria has gotten to him (with you know what) and he’s now part of the Kennedy clan–you know–Big Government, tax and spend, central control, government dependency—

We all know what Democraps are. Look at these states. Nice job!

Eric

April 22nd, 2009
11:23 am

Great article, Mr. Barr!!

Abraham Lincoln

April 22nd, 2009
11:25 am

I was never a Senator, Bob.

In fact, I couldn’t beat Douglas in 1858 because I did not believe in the right of secession. I believed that “The Slave Power” was threatening the values of our republic.

Jack

April 22nd, 2009
11:28 am

Mr Barr, when are you going to announce your candadacy for Governor of GA?

Hmmm

April 22nd, 2009
11:39 am

“I’m SICK and tired of this “lose, take your ball, and go home” mentality out of the right. Did you hear liberals in the northeast speak of secession, depsite eight years of moronic leadership by Bush?”

Actually, there were people on the Left who suggested that the two coasts should divorce themselves from the “heartland”. Also, others talked seriously about moving to Canada or other countries.

texas-son

April 22nd, 2009
11:43 am

First for those who comment on hurricane Ike. I live here on the gulf coast and the fed gov did little if nothing to help this community. It was friends and family and TEXANS who pulled texas back on its feet. About secession- texas economy ranks 10 th in the world. we have asked for no stimulus nor support. its not a racist thing its a we like our freedoms and a strong economy. Mainly..in a recession dont spend our money like a 10 year old with a blank checkbook. Dont think Texas is all about oil..T-boone Pickens has invested more of his own money into wind energy here in texas than the feds have in all the us. If your going to rant please know facts…moronic crap is why we are in this mess and dont blame Rick Perry or Texans for wanting aw ay to help our future, our families, our economy, and our freedoms.

Taxed Todeath

April 22nd, 2009
11:44 am

Fairtax. Check it out, it will work, it will bring jobs and corporations back to the U.S.A., it will revitalize our economy and get rid of a HUGE burden on the U.S. Government, the IRS. Check it out at http://www.fairtax.org

Oh, and to all you non-spelling, grammatical morons, try proofing your opinion before you post.

Rick

April 22nd, 2009
11:46 am

It is funny to read the rantings of the left. I would say if Texas did break away the rest of this nation would be better for it. For one, The border would be secure like it should. Cross it and get shot. (little note here, my father swam the Rio-Grand, doesn’t matter , he should have been shot ) Texas oil stays in Texas, Can you say cheap oil? all the while the while working to find alt. fuels.
Funny how if you do not like the policies of our prez. you are a racist? How is this?
By defacto , everyone who hates GW Bush (a great man by the way) is a Racist. If a black person hates Bush, he is a honkey hatin racist?
I think not, Please understand the attacks on the Liberty, the Constitution and to the REPUBLIC (not democracy) that have been put in place in the past few months pale in comparison to ANYTHING GW did, Thats why we ain’t been yellin “fo now.

Real Patriot

April 22nd, 2009
11:47 am

I think the time has come for loyal Americans to get in our pick up trucks and head for Texas with enough rope to take care of those seditious folks who wish to break the Union.

Secession is TREASON.

Matt

April 22nd, 2009
11:53 am

Where were all the teabaggers when Bush was president, running up the debt on BS wars? Where were they when he was vastly expanding not only federal power but EXECUTIVE power, to spy on Americans, to wiretap our phones, to check our mail, to read our library records, all without warrants.

What you have here are a small group of people (with megaphones and radio shows) who are rapidly losing their minds after years of paranoia (”Blacks/gays/liberals/the media/colleges/France/immigrants/the government/Mexicans/feminists/unions/Communists are out to get us!) and are throwing one hell of a hissy fit in the process because most Americans have realized the destruction caused by conservatism and decided to elect a black liberal to clean up the economic, diplomatic, environmental, and administrative messes left by conservatives.

The people of Texas and South Carolina and Alaska are just fine being Americans. It’s the nutcases like Perry and Sanford and Palin that are whining, ironically, so they appeal to the ever-shrinking Republican base made up of nutcases of equal or greater magnitude so they can get the Republican nomination in 2012 and have the honor of being on the receiving end of another Democratic landslide.

[...] Bob Barr defends the talk: Much of the media, in addition to characterizing Perry’s comments as “reckless” (the words of one Texas newspaper), also have attempted to paint such views as economically irresponsible. This view is premised on the “loss” of federal funds that would befall Texas or any other state that might sever ties to Washington. In fact, many of the 50 states send more in tax dollars to Washington than the states and its citizens receive from the feds — making secession actually not that bad a business deal (Texas about breaks even). [...]

TenaciousD

April 22nd, 2009
11:59 am

I will move to Texas the day they secede from the union, unless Georgia goes with them. Not that far fetched…

Dwight Elliston

April 22nd, 2009
11:59 am

I happened to take MARTA last week at around 7PM. I saw so many people riding the train that bump in ridership was probably enough to erase the transit system’s current deficit. But that’s besides the point.

Governor Rick Perry’s talks of secession is irresponsible. As an elected official, and the state’s chief executive, he should not be making statements that threaten the territorial integrity of our republic. We all know times are difficult, and everyone is looking for a skapegoat for the problems that confront us.

The expansion of the Federal government occurred under the watch of a Republican controlled Congress, and White House (yep, thank you “W”). And on the subject of civil liberties, let’s re-examine the Patriot Act, and the numerous statutes and executive orders that were promoted to “protect us from terrorism.” (remember the NSA dragnet anyone?)

And what about those state legislatures that routinely subject minority rights to referenda? The undermining of habeas corpus?

States have always been free to reject Federal mandates. We are hearing more about it today, because many states used to have an alternative to Federal funding, but now those sources have disappeared. Now they want to have their cake and eat it too.

Real Patriot

April 22nd, 2009
12:00 pm

Hey Matt The “teabaggers” are part of the Astroturf movement who are in search of some issue to divert our attention away from the abuse of Federal power and the greed driven economic rape of this Nation over the last 8 years.

As more folks lose their homes and jobs in the aftermath of “conservative politics” many will see that the current Administration is doing what is necessary to right the ship and get it off the rocks. Until then too many of the southern with males will cling to their cherished ideals and blame those who had little to do with today’s problems

JP

April 22nd, 2009
12:02 pm

I am as liberal as anyone, but while I don’t agree with the seccessionist talk I totally understand the anger. There are a lot of people who pay their taxes on time, pay their bills on time, are cutting their budgets to be able to just survive, scrificing a lot of future dreams just to get by today. And they see a government giving away trillions of dollars to companies that are run by individuals who couldn’t even balance their own checkbooks. Americans are told every day to sacrifice, cut expenses, be patient, yet we see our government burning through billions every day. Our government better understand this anger, or in a generation you’ll see a real break-up of this country.

Democrap Party

April 22nd, 2009
12:02 pm

This article is for all the morons who are against waterboarding.

Intel chief: Harsh techniques brought good info

Private memo says interrogation methods helped nation in terrorism fight

WASHINGTON – President Obama’s national intelligence director told colleagues in a private memo last week that the harsh interrogation techniques banned by the White House did produce significant information that helped the nation in its struggle with terrorists.

“High value information came from interrogations in which those methods were used and provided a deeper understanding of the al Qa’ida organization that was attacking this country,” Adm. Dennis C. Blair, the intelligence director, wrote in a memo to his staff last Thursday.

Admiral Blair sent his memo on the same day the administration publicly released secret Bush administration legal memos authorizing the use of interrogation methods that the Obama White House has deemed to be illegal torture. Among other things, the Bush administration memos revealed that two captured Qaeda operatives were subjected to a form of near-drowning known as waterboarding a total of 266 times.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30335592/

Democrap Party

April 22nd, 2009
12:04 pm

JP, I agree with you. People who have lived their American life as real citizens should be angry and outraged that our two parties have sold them out. From Bush onto Obama, both presidents spent our money and thrust us into socialism. Good law abiding citizens who have obeyed the laws and paid their taxes are being punished. There will be a backlash against democrats in the near future.

And, if we are attacked, and we will be attacked again, the Obama administration is finished.

Democrap Party

April 22nd, 2009
12:08 pm

Real Patriot, name ONE thing the current administration is doing that is good for the country.

Lets see:

1: President Obama is running up a 4 trillion dollar deficit that NO generation will ever pay off.

2: He sides with our enemies and bows to the Saudi King.

3: He does NOTHING about illegal immigration.

4: He is nationalizing the car and banking industry.

5: There will be no economic growth.

6: He goes to other countries to trash talk America AND he thanked Ortega for not blaming him for any problems.

The list goes on and on and on.

Real Patriot

April 22nd, 2009
12:10 pm

Mr Democrap, a Memeber of the Repugnantones, needs to include the King of deficit spending, Reagan. His use of tax dollars that we did not have started the economic downslide of this country in the early 80’s. Thanx to the illegal alien amnesty of’86 the borders were thrown open and the enforcement of laws enacted at that time has been lax at best.

Yes, both parties are to blame. The best President in the last few decades has been Clinton. It was during his era that the President, not the Treasury, was getting sucked dry.

Red Foreman

April 22nd, 2009
12:13 pm

Im mad, fighting mad!!!!

Conservatives vs. Libtards…

JC in Powder Springs

April 22nd, 2009
12:13 pm

“Growing grass roots sentiment” – what a load of ship! I tell ya what Bob, go ahead and move to Texas and secede. You can call the new country Moronia and Limbaugh can be your king.

Never underestimate the incredible mountain of B.S. old white men will come up with to keep their hands on the levers of power! How about another tea bag party? What a bunch of clowns!

Barr’s garbage actually gets printed in the paper? No wonder they’re going out of business.

Real Patriot

April 22nd, 2009
12:16 pm

Democrap, aka Repugnant one,
Not too strong on current events are you? Lets see,
Bush kissed the Saudi King and allowed himself to be lead by the hand. Bush nationalized the banks with the $750 Billion bailout all without Congressional oversight.

Bush gave the car industry the initial bail out of $25 billion

The Obama debt is about one trillion, Bush’s debt is more than $6 trillion. What generation will p[ay off the Bush debt before the Obama debt is paid off? Our generation and the next couple though higher taxes and fees.

Why not be nice to the Cubans? I would love to get my hands on a 58 Chevy 2 door Belaire.

Democrap Party

April 22nd, 2009
12:16 pm

Real Patriot, Clinton was a sneaky monkey. He did some good things but only because the GOP kept him in check. His early years were not that good. If he had gone after Al Queda instead of using his cigar in an inappropriate way his legacy would have been better. He also is lied under oath which is a big no no. Reagans legacy has and will fare better than Clinton because Reagans faults will not be remembered like Clintons will.

Mark my words!

Democrap Party

April 22nd, 2009
12:19 pm

Real Patriot, aka Benedict Arnold, I can name call all day if you like. Name calling gets one no where. Name calling shows your lack of intelligence.

Now, if you want to have a serious debate fine, but please leave the childish name calling to kindergarten children.

Like I said, Bush is at fault so you can’t throw that in my face pal. But what Obama is doing is suicide for America. Look around at this country. Look at how many people live outside their means and yet they are crying that they can not pay their debt. BOO HOO!

I love Cuban cigars but fact are facts. Castro and Che were murderers plain and simple. JFK botched Cuba up and here we are today.

Democrap Party

April 22nd, 2009
12:21 pm

Real Patriot, by the way oh unintelligent one, I am not a member of the Republican party. That’s the problem with people like you. Always assuming what you don’t know.

Real Patriot

April 22nd, 2009
12:23 pm

Dem/Repug
You are right about Reagan’s faults not being remembered. As we have come to see he could not remember them either.

Too bad the GOP didnt keep Bush in check, they may still control at least one of the chambers of congress.

Clinton did lie under oath and Bush violated international law by authorizing torture.

Clinton was impeached though not convicted. Though I would not smoke one of his cigars either.

Bush will be taken to the Hague and tried as a criminal. Cheny and Gonzales will be in the defense chair along with their Boss.

Democrap Party

April 22nd, 2009
12:24 pm

Happy Earth Day everyone!

For Earth Day I am driving my gas guzzler AND have the air conditioner on at full blast. I cut down some unwanted trees in the back yard and I am also keeping all my lights on in the house.

Real Patriot

April 22nd, 2009
12:25 pm

Dem/Repug

Sorry, I can see you are an ararchist. When I was serving with the Marines in IRaq I always wondered why folks like you were not in the line next to me

Beowulf

April 22nd, 2009
12:27 pm

So much here about the legality or not of secession. There are compelling arguments on both sides concerning the legality of it. Just keep in mind this – no Confederate leaders were ever brought up on charges of treason. It would have forced the Supreme Court to decide the Constitutionality of the notion of secession. Officially there is nothing in the Constitution forbidding a state from seceding, but nor is there any sort of condoning of the activity. It was a hot button at the time the Constitution was drafted, with the failure of the first government under the Articles of Confederation some states wanted to ensure that there was still a back door. So it remains to this day a fuzzy issue – and personally one I don’t think will be SERIOUSLY revisited. Gov. Perry was making a point, that the Constitution envisioned a stronger role for state and local governments and a federal government that was kept in check. Unfortunately, this is where the failure is – on both sides.

As for those who suggest that Texas is a state full of racists – have you even visited there? They are no more anti-black than here in Georgia or even New York. Southerners are known more for speaking their mind, and I have seen and heard horrible things from Northerners that would make most “rednecks” look tame. Texas has a significant Hispanic population, and the people in general are very accepting, so long as you don’t go in assuming they are just stupid hicks. That they don’t like.

Meanwhile, I encourage everyone in Georgia to look carefully at our upcoming Governor’s race. I am sick of good ol’ boy politics, and glad Sonny cannot run again. But even scarier is that now it is assumed that Roy Barnes, former governor, is now the Democratic frontrunner. This man who does not even have the brains to avoid alienating one of his largest support bases (teachers) in his reelection campaign, why would we ever want him governor again? Please no! But who to vote for from GOP? Handel, Oxendine, that Cobb county guy? No thanks. I liked Cagle, but he has dropped out for health reasons. No, this time I am going to vote Libertarian again – and we have a candidate! His name is John Monds, a Morehouse graduate who garnered over one million votes in a race against an incumbent GOP Public Service Commissioner, becoming the first Libertarian in the country to accomplish that feat! Look him up at http://www.votemonds.com/

Democrap Party

April 22nd, 2009
12:30 pm

Real Patriot, keep name calling pal. You look more and more idiotic with every insult.

Bush did not violate law because A: we were at war with an enemy that is not under the Geneva Convention.

B: waterboarding is not torture. No one gets hurt and no one dies. And, it saved lives.

Clinton lied and was disbarred.

If you want Bush tried at the Hague you are in the minority. Why? Because even President Hussein will not try ANY of the Bush officials. Why, because no laws were broken.

Again, when we are attacked again the democrat party is finished.

Democrap Party

April 22nd, 2009
12:31 pm

Real Patriot, what is an ararchist? Never heard of that before but wait! I see that not only are you unintelligent, you can not spell as well! Awwwwwwwwwwwe, poor Real Patriot.

Democrap Party

April 22nd, 2009
12:33 pm

Real Patriot, also, your training as a “soldier,” if that was what you really were, I mean there are jobs in the military as cooks and janitors, did not teach you common sense or intelligence. You don’t know anything about me pal. But then again, people like you think that burning the American flag is cool.

Democrap Party

April 22nd, 2009
12:33 pm

Real Patriot, I might also add, you picked this fight.

Derek

April 22nd, 2009
12:37 pm

When I read the hate speech directed at Texans who actually value liberty and independence, I’m actually shocked. What ever happened to the idea of dissent being the highest form of patriotism? Frankly, some of the critics of Gov. Perry and patriotic Texans in general sound like a bunch of fascist warmongers ready to wage total war on any political minority that would dare stand up to the leviathan in Washington, D.C.

Democrap Party

April 22nd, 2009
12:38 pm

The new Homeland Security woman may be the most inexperienced person, besides Obama, in charge of running the country.

Border comments spark diplomatic kerfuffle

Ottawa was rushing to defend its border security on Tuesday amid a diplomatic scuffle with the U.S., which erupted after Washington’s homeland security chief suggested that the 9-11 terrorists entered the U.S. through Canada.

U.S. Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano made the comments during a media interview earlier this week, much to the chagrin of Canadians on both sides of the border.

In recent years, Ottawa has invested a great deal of effort into dispelling perceptions among Americans that Canada’s border is an easy entry point for terrorists planning attacks on U.S. soil.

“Unfortunately, misconceptions arise on something as fundamental as where the 9-11 terrorists came from,” said Michael Wilson, Canada’s ambassador in Washington.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090421/USA_Border_090421/20090421?hub=TopStories

Real Patriot

April 22nd, 2009
12:38 pm

sorry about the typo. i am still learning to the the prosthetic hand. Typical of you rear echelon types. In the rear with the gear and worrying about who typed what. Did you ever want to be a soldier and stand up for something?

anarchist – 1. a person who advocates or believes in anarchy or anarchism.
2. a person who seeks to overturn by violence all constituted forms and institutions of society and government, with no purpose of establishing any other system of order in the place of that destroyed.
3. a person who promotes disorder or excites revolt against any established rule, law, or custom.

Real Patriot

April 22nd, 2009
12:40 pm

Hey demo

Lets get together and talk about burning the flag. Im in Fayetteville. I’d be happy to meet you

Democrap Party

April 22nd, 2009
12:42 pm

Real Patriot, again, you assume and make terrible judgments. You don’t know me and you don’t know what my beliefs and political leanings are. I have no idea if what you say is truth as many bloggers lie about who they really are. My entire family served in the military. Get my drift Real Patriot?

Instead of calling me names and assuming what I am as a person maybe you should step back and have a civil debate with me.

I am a capitalist pal. Not an anarchist. I believe in the rule of law and not the rule of chaos.

Democrap Party

April 22nd, 2009
12:43 pm

Real Patriot, why would I want to meet someone who calls me names? I have no desire to meet anyone who insults me.

neo-Carlinist

April 22nd, 2009
12:47 pm

Carlinism 101

our nation was founded when a group of white, salve-owning businessmen “seceded” from their mother country. in short, they benefited from the British Monarchy until they realized the true nature of the relationship (their wealth being siphoned in the form of taxes). so students, what have We the People learned from this glorious experiment in Constitutional government? we have learned that governments exist to serve those with property (wealth). at some point, the government bites back and seeks to serve its own needs (taxation, nationalization). in essence, the government become a business (provider of goods and services, at a cost). the only (semantic) difference is; the government “sells” Homeland Security, healthcare, home-ownership, etc. as I posted last week, all this talk of “tea parties” (and secession) is silly unless We the People (or the People of Texas and Alaska) are willing to stage their own follow-up “Bunker Hill” parties. And for those of you who were too busy worrying about your mortgage or your 401K in 2008, hurry up an Google Posse Comitatus and go to Wikipedia: “On October 1, 2008, the US Army announced that the 3rd Infantry Division’s 1st Brigade Combat Team (BCT) will be under the day-to-day control of U.S. Army North, the Army service component of Northern Command (NORTHCOM), as an on-call federal response force for natural or man-made emergencies and disasters, including terrorist attacks. This marks the first time an active U.S. Army unit will be given a dedicated assignment to NORTHCOM, where it is stated they may be “called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control or to deal with potentially horrific scenarios…” I am not some right-wing fringe nut job, but I think Uncle Sam just called “check mate”. This force is scheduled to be operation by 2011, and frankly, does anyone (besides the Federal Government) trust anyone IN the Federal Government to define “civil unrest” or “major public emergency”? If so, now GOOGLE “Kent State” and see what’s in store for you.

But not to worry, if you work hard (and it doesn’t hurt to be too big to fail) and attain a slot in the ownership class or the politician class, you have nothing to worry about because those 20,000 Federal troops work for you. If you are not in ownership/political class, you do not really have a stake in the game. you are a source of revenue for the real owners of this country. what did Gordon Gecco (Wall Street) say; “…I’m not talking about some schmuck making $250,000 a year and flying first class…” oh, and think about it, for all the talk of “all men beining endowed by their Creator, and the Bill of Rights, etc., the Consitution had to be amended to end slavery and afford women the right to vote (75 years and just over 100 years after the fact). if you own property (wealth) you have access to policians, who then draft legislation which serves your specific interests. if you do not have wealth your consolation prize is the Bill of Rights and the right to vote (let me know how that worked out the next time you drive through a DUI roadblock, get busted for smoking a joint, or heaven forbid, you are a homosexual who wants to marry your partner). the Federal Government has become its own entity (as opposed to the glue that holds the various states together). Texas and Alaska can no more secede than your or I can refuse to feed the beast every April 15th. whether it is the City of Atlanta (failed 911 experiment, useless public safety enterprise, etc.) the State of GA ($2 billion deficit) or the pimps in Congress, we are all being exploited for the benefit of a few. That’s not some “socialist rant” it’s what George Carlin called “The American Dream” because “you have to be asleep” to experience it.

Marty

April 22nd, 2009
12:51 pm

Oh dear God. The level of stupid here is reaching an all time high. Going green and not needing oil from Texas? Hold on while I roll around laughing at you’re complete stupidity. The very keyboard you type on has oil in it. The chair you sit in has oil in it. The monitor you stare at has oil in it. EVERYTHING you use has oil in it. Educate yourself then make an arguement. We will never see the day when oil is not used. Getting away from the middle east oil is the best thing we can do. WE need to strive for better energy sources but you people are just looney if you think we are walking away from oil. Lets attack them filthy rich people too while we are at it. I seen a new car yesterday that was all electric nice car with good stats. Problem is the sot was said to be 50K. Hmmm lets do the math on that. Can the so called middle and lower class afford a 50k vehicle? Answer: NO only the “filthy rich” can afford them so what we are really saying here is lets get rid of the rich so we dwell on the bottom because clearly none of you will ever work hard enough to actually be rich. Then the question is asked. How many of you have ever got a payroll check from a poor man? Good luck in your theories. When states like Texas do walk away and others follow and start to live in prosperity don’t come crying at our door. We’ve already see what you will do to a country and we don’t want it.

Davo

April 22nd, 2009
12:52 pm

I’m all for the secession movement…anything that makes the feds nervous is ok by me. Apparently I’m an extremist for no other reason than the fact that I love freedom over government.

Liberals and hard right-wingers just don’t get it…no liberty means no country. Remember McCains bumper-sticker campaign slogon, ‘Country First’? He got it wrong…it’s Liberty First. If your country fails you then why support it?

Jefferson

April 22nd, 2009
1:21 pm

Any wonder Congress is like it is, just look at the cooperation here.

Not completly worthless, could be used as a bad example.

Children who don’t get their way comes to mind.

Sore losers, with a chip on their shoulders.

ER

April 22nd, 2009
1:42 pm

The USA as it was is probably over. There are huge differences in the cultures and beliefs of people from region to region, and these differences cannot and will not be overcome with the political extremes of the left and the right calling the shots. The Soviet Empire fell apart. It can happen here to if the extremes of the right and left do not come together and work out real solutions to our problems, instead of ignoring them until they are out of office,so they can blame the party that is in power.

Barry

April 22nd, 2009
1:58 pm

Go ahead all you Dimocrats, stick your head in the sand and drink your Obama Kool-Aid! Anyone with half a brain would realize the Obama Train with Nancy Pelosi (the trained seal), Harry Reid (the hemmorid on Nancy’s ass), Charlie Rangel (padding his money with taxpayer’s money) and a cast of other blind followers would realize it ain’t working and Obama has done more to weaken America since CNN bought his chair as president than we will ever dig out from under! Obama is not a leader… he is a puppet on a string or should I say teleprompter. Loose the teleprompter and he is a studdering/stammering idiot!

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

Jason

April 22nd, 2009
2:03 pm

Yawn. “Grass roots” my ass. This blog is absurd.

U Stink

April 22nd, 2009
2:52 pm

Barry:

Big
Angry
Revolting
Right-Wing
Yahoo

And by the way… It’s spelled “stuttering” NOT “studdering.”

Copyleft

April 22nd, 2009
3:08 pm

Californication: “I think Texas should use its power not to secede but to break up into 5 states”

One snag: they don’t have the power to do either one. Their admission treaty makes no mention of any “right to secede” (which the post-Civil War Supreme Court rulings trashed anyway), and their option of breaking into additional states consists of the right to APPROVE any such plan submitted by Congress.

By the way: Congrats to Governor Perry for breaking Governor Palin’s record for anti-American sentiment! She was just sleeping with a secessionist… Perry IS one! Can’t get much more America-hating than that!

SaveOurRepublic

April 22nd, 2009
3:18 pm

First off, Rick Perry is a Globalist shill who’s pressed hard for the NAFTA/NASCO/TTC Superhighway in Texas, and attended the Bilderberg conference in Istanbul. In my estimation, he’s a Neocon cut from the same mold as his pal “Jorge Boosh”, and his Texas sovereignty talk is just (empty) lip service to deceive Texans into thinking he’s a real conservative. I don’t trust Perry one iota!

That being said, if the Feds are not going to fully adhere to the Constitution (as required by law), then state(s) secession is indeed a valid option. In addition to movements in Texas & Alaska, the Free State Project is making wave in New Hampshire. Americans are fed up with the Globalist pawns in DC trampling on the Constitution.

Barry

April 22nd, 2009
3:26 pm

Whether it’s stuttering or studdering you got the point. The moron can’t talk without a teleprompter and someone telling him what to say or answer questions for him. I just thought Jimmy Carter was the worse president in American History until this moron got elected. And, as bad and nutless as Carter was…Obama is 10 times worse! I’m surprised Chavez, Castro and the Iranian Idiot don’t all move in with him at the White House and become one big happy family!

Democrap Party

April 22nd, 2009
3:39 pm

More Democrat hypocrisy.

Pelosi knew NSA had listened to Harman phone calls

WASHINGTON (AP) – House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Wednesday that she was aware a few years ago that Rep. Jane Harman had been overheard on a government wiretap.

“A few years ago, maybe three years ago, they did brief me,” Pelosi told reporters at an event hosted by the Christian Science Monitor.

She said that when a member of Congress is recorded as part of a wiretapped conversation, intelligence officials inform congressional leaders.

“That happened at that time,” Pelosi said. She added that the classified briefing was not detailed, and she did not tell Harman at the time.

“All I knew is that she was wiretapped,” Pelosi said.

“When you are briefed on something, it isn’t your information to share with anybody else,” she added. “Even if I wanted to share it with her, I would not have had the ability to share it with her.”

Harman has said she first learned of the wiretapping last week from a reporter who had knowledge of the transcript of the recording.

Congressional Quarterly reported Monday that Harman was overheard agreeing to seek lenient treatment for two former employees of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee who were under investigation and later indicted for unlawfully possessing and disclosing classified information.

In exchange, according to CQ, prominent pro-Israel contributors would press Pelosi to appoint Harman to the chairmanship of the House Intelligence Committee.

Harman has vehemently denied contacting the Justice Department or White House to intervene in the case and has asked Justice to release a transcript of the intercepted phone conversation.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D97NMSM80&show_article=1

Ron Roberts

April 22nd, 2009
3:40 pm

Hey ALPHA MALE – your post only points out the idiot that YOU are. The “state of New Hampshire” did not form a party, moron; folks LIVING in the state of New Hampshire might have, but not the STATE, itself; nor did its leading governing body or executive “espouse” secession. Check. Your. Facts.

Democrap Party

April 22nd, 2009
3:42 pm

President Hussein Teleprompter will get us bombed.

The Interrogation Memorandums

By Gary Berntsen

This past week President Obama authorized the release of a set of classified memorandums written during the Bush administration. These documents outlined the procedures and tactics employed during the interrogations of captured senior Al Qaeda operatives and have been referred to by the press as the “torture memos”. President Obama’s release of these memos took place despite substantial protest. The four most recent CIA Directors-John Deutch, George Tenet, Porter Goss and Michael Hayden-all recommended against the release of these memorandums. President Obama’s own newly appointed Director of CIA, Leon Panetta, also recommended against releasing the documents. Yet President Obama, in a seemingly relentless effort to discredit his predecessor, George W. Bush, made the memorandum available to the public anyway.

In taking this action, President Obama has effectively defined the limits of what America, at its most aggressive and most passive, would do against Al Qaeda detainees. This will undoubtedly allow groups like Al Qaeda to adjust the preparation and training of their operatives. Administration officials as well as some journalists on the left have argued that the President took into consideration the fact that much of the memos’ contents have already made it into the press. This is a hollow defense. Speculation or discussion of these details in the press may allow Al Qaeda and other terrorists to assess potential U.S. capabilities to some extent. But official White House memorandums released to the public, and immediately downloadable online, are the gold standard for Al Qaeda.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/04/22/the_interrogation_memorandums_96115.html

Line of Secession | ProductionNinja.com

April 22nd, 2009
3:43 pm

[...] Bob Barr doesn’t think that secession talk is all that nutty: On April 14, Perry expressed his “unwavering support for efforts all across our country to reaffirm the states’ rights affirmed by the 10th Amendment.” [...]

Democrap Party

April 22nd, 2009
3:43 pm

President Hussein Teleprompter also hates the United States of America.

Obama Blames America

Demonizing Harry Truman may not play well with voters.

By DOROTHY RABINOWITZ

The president of the United States has completed another outing abroad in his now standard form: as the un-Bush. At one stop after another — the latest in Latin America, where Hugo Chávez expressed wishes to be his friend — Barack Obama fulfilled his campaign vows to show the nations of the world that a new American leadership stood ready to atone for the transgressions of the old.

All went as expected in these travels, not counting certain unforeseen results of that triumphal European tour. The images of that trip, in which Mr. Obama dazzled ecstatic Europeans with citations of the offenses against international goodwill and humanity committed by the nation he leads, are now firmly imprinted on the minds of Americans. That this is so, and that it is not good news for him, is truth of a kind not quite fathomable to this president and his men.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124035759650041105.html

Ron Roberts

April 22nd, 2009
3:50 pm

I love how those blogging form the “right” can only do so with trivial, childish name-calling (i.e. “Democrap,” “libtard,” etc.). It works in-line with their juvenile “take my ball and go home” mentality after losing the last round of elections.

I don’t remember any “tea parties” when Bush and Reagan ran up then-record deficits. And Reagan was a FAR bigger violator, considering his highest tax rate was at FIFTY percent for the highest wage-earners. Nobody called HIM a socialist for “re-distributing the wealth” then, did they? Funny how that works.

Texas Johnny

April 22nd, 2009
4:00 pm

Texas joined the Union as an already independent nation, unique among the states. The ability to seceed was part of the deal with the Federal Government at the time Texas joined the others. Texas has always been proud of its independence. Even the state capitol faces away from Washington by design.

I for one will take my family and swim the Red River, if I have to, when Texas seceeds.

See ya.

William

April 22nd, 2009
4:04 pm

Secessionist talk isn’t extreme? It’s extremely weird. And kind of pathetic.

Derek

April 22nd, 2009
4:33 pm

“Real Patriot” personifies the kind of ultra-nationalism that ought to scare the hell out of every American. He probably would have made a great brown shirt.

MrLiberty

April 22nd, 2009
4:45 pm

There was a time in this country when the constitution protected the minority from the majority and the federal government felt bound by its limits on their power. That time passed with Lincoln.

It is tragic that most people in this country feel that victory in an election is a green light to political oppression of the losers. Yes, both democrats and republicans feel this way. Once, it hardly mattered who was elected since their election could not destroy the economy, ruin the monetary system, impoverish the population, enslave the 18 year-olds for the purpose of domestic slavery or imperial conquest, or otherwise impact anyone’s life in any serious manner.

Now, those of us who can actually read and understand the meaning of the constitution and who have appreciation for the america it was meant to create and protect, just want our freedom back. We are not republican or democrat. We are americans in search of freedom. Secession was embodied in the constitution and was declared to be imperative by virtually every colony that formed the first united States of America. There should be no need to seceed because other states should not have the right to victimize each other, but that is exactly the way the government now works.

Russians are now predicting our split, and many of the founding fathers envisioned smaller countries than we have now. It is high time we consider such separation as a peaceful means of getting away from the fascist and socialist elements that are destroying this nation. We would all be far better off as 50 independant states with no federal government than we are today. There is no magical wealth that comes from the federal government. It is just stolen from the productive states or printed out of thin air, thus devaluing all the money in savings, etc. I think its high time every state moved toward such a goal. We would likely all be more secure, and certainly more free.

SaveOurRepublic

April 22nd, 2009
4:46 pm

Ron Roberts – Skull & Bonesmen Bush Sr/Jr were pure Neocon/RINOs, and Reagan wasn’t an full time, true/real (paleo)conservative. The GOP has become infested with Machiavellian, Trotskyite Neocons, who deceive many (well meaning) Americans into believing the GOP is truly conservative. However, the DNC is no better (& worse on many issues). The net is that BOTH GOP & DNC “leadership” are 2 sides of the same coin…controlled by the Globalist Elite. From a party prospective, the only viable choices are Libertarian & Constitution, as the RNC/DNC system has been co-opt’d by the Internationalist agenda.

Red Foreman

April 22nd, 2009
4:48 pm

The Confederacy will rise again…God help the poor unarmed libtards!!!

Democrap Party

April 22nd, 2009
5:02 pm

Ron Roberts, I love how you totally ignore the name calling from left wingers. Shows how hypocritical you really are.

reasonable

April 22nd, 2009
5:08 pm

Frankly, as an American, I am getting tired of this seccession nonsense whether from the left ot the right. For a former U.S. Attorney to attempt to justify it is outrageous. Also, as a historian, I am appalled at the misuse of history to try to explain how seccession is somehow legal.
Some facts:
1. It was not due to any fear of putting seccessionist on trial and a sense that the Court would find such a right of seccession to exist. The Court was full of Unionist and Republicans, mant of whom had lost friends or relatives in putting down the rebellion. To think that such individuals would have found a legal right for an action that had caused them such loss is naive. Further, the individuals on the Court accepted the legal doctrine of the people forming the Union, not the states, thereby making the Union binding with no right of seccession. Moreover, there was a great cry for severe punishment, including hanging of many Confederate leaders. The rason for the lack of trial was the surrender terms proposed by Grant based upon the polioy of Lincoln (at the 1865 Hampton Roads Conference) to avoid what he saw as actions that would merely increase bitterness. Jefferson Davis, when caught, was, in fact, imprisoned for quite some time. For policy reasons and to avoid his matrydom, he was released, not for any fear of a court ruling legalizing seccession.
2. As Lincoln showed in 1861, no American President can peacefully let any state secede. Instead, if necessary, seccession will be put down by armed force. Politicians who play this seccessionist game know that but think its to their benefit to inflame folks. In Texas, Perry is merely poistioning himself against Sen. Hutchinson in the Republican primary for Governor by running to the right of the conservative Senator.
3. There was an election and the conservatives lost. There is another election in 2010 and they have their chance then. In a democratic republic, for a minority to seek to invalidate and election by dissoloving the country is to raise the old spectre that only dictatorship and monarchies can survive as major nations, thereby giving greater credit to Nazi German and Communist Russia than history has, in fact, allowed. Please don’t make the old canard that we now have a dictatorship and that the President is somehow both a fascist and a socualist. That is not a serious argument and is contradictory on its face.
4. I wonder when I read some of these posts if these same folks were attacking the President and other Democrats about their lack of patriotism and love of country earlier? I guess that that only counted when you got your way. By the way, I also served in the U.S. Marines and spent a career in law enforcment/criminal justice, so please spare the attacks on my patriotism, I have never called for seccession, nor will I ever do so. I have too much faith in our Constitution and the good sense of the America people (of all colors and ethnic origins) to believe that the nation is incapable of change.

Bob Barr

April 22nd, 2009
5:10 pm

I appreciate the many comments I’ve been receiving in response to my BarrCode blogs, including all those received today in response to my blog regarding Gov. Rick Perry’s use of the “S word” (”secession”)last week. The fact that this blog in particular has sparked such interest is evidence it has accomplished its purpose — forcing people to reflect on the serious damage being visited on our country, and on the states that comprise it, as a result of the unbridled, improper and costly growth of federal government power in recent decades. And remember, every bit of power the federal government acquires is at the direct cost of individual liberty.

Ron Roberts

April 22nd, 2009
5:39 pm

Glenn, a similar report about “left-wing extremists” didn’t get NEARLY as much media exposure as the “right-wing extremists” report did. So much for left-media bias. “Democrap” I did a quick scan through this blog and find the name-calling coming FAR more from the right than the left. I’m not being a hypocrite when I call ‘em as I read ‘em. Your very sign-on name speaks volumes. Some of us are man enough to speak our minds w/out using a shield to hide who we are.

Democrap Party

April 22nd, 2009
5:48 pm

Ron Roberts, you should scan through Bookmans and Wootens blogs. You’ll find plenty of names there. Oh, and my blog handle is exactly what I think the democrat party is. CRAP!

Democrap Pary

April 22nd, 2009
6:07 pm

Well, looks like that stimulus package didn’t work after all. Oh well, President Teleprompter Hussein will just go get more money from the evil rich. Looks like the Texas Governor has a point.

Sources: GM to shut many US plants up to 9 weeks

AP Sources: GM to close most US factories for up to 9 weeks this summer to reduce inventory

DETROIT (AP) — Two people briefed on the plan say General Motors Corp. will close most of its U.S. factories for up to nine weeks this summer because of slumping sales and growing inventories of unsold vehicles.

The people did not know exactly when the shutdowns would occur, but both say they will include the normal two-week closure in July to change from one model year to the next. Neither person wanted to be identified because workers have not been told of the shutdowns.

GM spokesman Chris Lee would not comment other than to say the company notifies employees before making any production cuts public.

GM is living on $13.4 billion in government loans and faces a June 1 deadline to restructure or seek bankruptcy protection.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-SourcesGM-to-shut-many-US-apf-15004037.html?.v=2

Derek

April 22nd, 2009
7:40 pm

Reasonable,

So would you yourself actually support the use of military force to prevent a state from peacefully separating from the Union? Would you be willing to pull the trigger yourself? Would you support your son or other male relative if they were part of a bloody domestic Counter-Secession campaign? I hope not. I also hope you would not agree with executing leaders of secessionist movements. Would you be willing to perform the executions yourself?

I guess I always (naively) assumed that Americans were live and let live people at heart and had evolved since the barbaric days of the 1860’s. After decades of supporting other peoples around the world in their struggles for self-determination, I wrongly believed they would consider the use of military force and martial law against their fellow Americans a non-option.
Sadly, this whole dialogue has opened my eyes to the fact that many, if not most Americans are warmongers and would be more than willing to impose their form of political centralization on unwilling subjects at the point of a bayonet. I hope you and others who feel the way you do are not going to observe Independence Day this July 4th, since it’s obvious the idea of government deriving its just powers from the consent of the governed is all but dead if what you say is true.

Jack

April 22nd, 2009
8:25 pm

If Texas would seceed, I would relocate there.

John Gaither

April 22nd, 2009
8:27 pm

I don’t agree alot with Bob Barr but on this one I couldn’t agree more. It tickles me that the media thinks this is a ridiculous notion but succession is just not a “right wing” idea it is a idea that has been in the republic’s politics from the very beginning. It has usually reared its head when one portion of the country has obtained a disproportionate advantage in power but this time it is more about those representing us, blatantly and arrogantly ignoring input on the fiscal issues. I have voted in every election since 1978, I don’t own a gun, and if I had my choice we would not mix religion and government, I voted for Clinton twice,yet I am so fed up with Washington I would support Georgia considering the succession idea. How else to get Washington’s attention? I want less government, not more. Adams,Jackson,Lincoln, all were presidents who fought to preserve the Union because they felt we were a stronger nation united–for trade and commerce, personal freed,and defense. With the fiscal and electorial actions of the last 5 years–Bush, Obama,republicans and democrats–I am not sure staying in the union we reinforce any of these ideals.

Iridium

April 22nd, 2009
8:40 pm

Texas’ economy would grow by leaps and bounds if it creates a pro business economy without the punishing burden of greater than 50% taxation. Texas could probably protect itself better from the mass wave of illegals without having to worry about a government that refuses to act. All in all I think Texas could provide itself with far better services than the federal government ever could.

That was the whole purpose of having individual states in the first place. The founding fathers made the federal government weak for a reason. Many of you should go read a real history book. Perhaps you could learn something.

Ron Roberts

April 22nd, 2009
10:59 pm

Those who’d flee America for an indpendent Texas would make America a better place, frankly; the suburban, gas-guzzling SUV-driving, war-first/reasons-later crowd are as repsonsible as ANY for why this country’s where it is now. That, and the trumped up “values crowd” who pulled church-goers “puppet strings” to lure ‘em to the voting booth to vote their way while scaring off the scary boogey-men (gay married people).

Hey Democrap…small problem w/the article you cite is this – GM’s avoiding bankruptcy by shuttering their plants for 9 weeks. And I believe Toyota’s about to do the same thing – you know, the JAPANESE-owned car-maker. Of course, the Japanese, Europeans, hell the rest of the world acknowledges this recesion is American-made. You know, during the LAST presidency.

bill

April 23rd, 2009
1:43 am

Texas gets back what over 80 cents of every tax dollar they send to washington. Yep spending all that money is stupid,yep thats why Senator Burr (R) after being briefed by Hank Paulson in the fall. He got so scared he called his wife and said start taking money out as quickly as possible. They play to the sheep but the right knows that money had to be spent. All people stupidly yelling let it all fall, would of cr*pped themselves if it all collapsed. They are sheep like holding signs dont raise my taxes numbnuts 95 of the country is getting their taxes lowered.Its all sore losers it really is when bush was cutting taxes and going to war spending away on the chinese credit card no one had tea parties or said squat.

Chris Broe

April 23rd, 2009
6:32 am

Surely the lurkers can see the pathos here. Motley bands of chanters. Directionless viciousness. Blind justice holding a sword instead of a scale. Secessionists squandering any Federal reconciliation. Scoundrels trying to invent another flag to refuge behind.

All this is because we can’t get out of Iraq, which also wants to succeed from our Union, but can’t. We ain’t never gonna git outta Iraq. Hate to flash a reality on this blog, but what is the mission of US troops in Iraq. Bob Barr can’t face the war he cheered so ravenously in a galaxy far, far away. If this man would write one real comment that stood as a logical imperative from either news or history, then maybe I’d respect him. Instead, we get the in-vitro form of fertilizer from this born-again zygote of fable, rib and fib. A cad clad in the bad. (a very bad cad). His writing stinks too.

Jklol

RetLTC

April 23rd, 2009
7:52 am

Is Governor Perry willing to suffer the same fate as Jefferson Davis after the U.S. brings Texas back into the fold after it’s all said and done?

Lewis

April 23rd, 2009
8:47 am

I appreciate Mr. Barr commenting on this topic, but I think his assumption–that the mere presence of discussion indicates people hate our federal government as much as he does–is specious.

steve snow

April 23rd, 2009
8:54 am

Does Bob Barr really believe this moronic notion he has written? Bob Barr needs a job, to prevent him from having too much leisure time to think stupid thoughts. Wait a minute, Bob Barr for georgia governor.

Pat

April 23rd, 2009
9:05 am

Bob, I disagree with most all of your political views. But you were dead-on correct in sounding the alarm over Bush’s radical power grab and dismantling of our Constitutional civil liberties in the name of “the war on terror.”

Now, you’ve really disappointed me with your not-so-veiled defense of secessionists. The bloodiest war in our history was fought because of this school of thought, so it’s far from harmless “musing.” Secession talks are the hard currency of yes, ultra-right, extremist, usually racist fringe groups. Are these really who you want as idealogical neighbors?
It’s the radical right, not left, in recent years who haven’t hesitated to use violence. These discussions validate and encourage more violent actions.
Most U.S. citizens, conservative and liberal, are proud to be Americans and love their country, even if they don’t approve of all actions of its government. Turning your back on the United States of America is no small thing.

But for me, the most infuriating aspect of all of this type of talk is that NO ONE – not the most liberal of our “blue states” – spoke of leaving America because of the Bush administration or the GOP’s lock on power.
No one. Only NOW – now that we have a black president, now that Bush policies have FORCED us to spend enormous sums in a desperate attempt to stop the freefall of our economy – only now, is the egregious spending and staggering “abuse of power” (the top 1% pay more taxes? Oh, the humanity! It’s the Apocalypse!)offensive enough to rise to the level that talk of secession starts.

Writing this column makes you a hypocrite, Bob. Why weren’t you suggesting secession as a viable possibility well worthy of discussion when Bush trampled on the Constitution?

Maggiee

April 23rd, 2009
9:51 am

Texas can only secede if it takes South Carolina with it and promises never to come back. Buh-bye!

Fat Sean

April 23rd, 2009
10:33 am

Leave already! Go! Enjoy dealing with the Mexican drug gangs with only your state budget. I mean, scummy military men lied about Mexico attacking US territories to start the war to make Texas a state. We got the place by amoral means, let’s give it back.

Copyleft

April 23rd, 2009
11:47 am

They were always hypocritical… they just used to be better at hiding it.

Now they’re just pathetic.

Jimbo

April 23rd, 2009
12:57 pm

You guys are funny.. you realize that Texas provides 10% of our military recruits and pays more in federal taxes than it receives back in federal funding, right? You realize that right now it might not make sense to dissolve the Union, but a very real threat to the solvency of our nation exists right around the corner. According to the David M. Walker, the former Comptroller General of the United States (The US’ accountant) the country is going to drown under its financial obligations and benefits paid out through social security and medicare. These obligations will cost over $50 TRILLION.. When the nation is bankrupt because of these clowns in both parties, you might see a little more serious talk about dissolution and more frightfully, it might even start to make sense. If you believe that one party is better than the other I’d ask you why democrats voted for USA-PATRIOT. I’d ask why Obama’s voting record closely resembled McCain’s on matters regarding the war and the counter-terrorism. I’d ask why USA-PATRIOT hasn’t been repealed. You think conservatives and liberals are so different and that the parties support your myriad views, but they’re in it for themselves and the sooner you realize that our petty system of bread and circuses is destined to fail, the better off we’ll be. We’ve become a nation of blind marionettes.

The REAL GodHatesTrash, Superstar

April 23rd, 2009
1:26 pm

Jeff Davis took out the trash. Lincoln was dumb enough to bring it back in.

Please. Go now.

Good luck. You’re going to need it.

The REAL GodHatesTrash, Superstar

April 23rd, 2009
1:29 pm

Cons are stuck in the 60s. The 1860s.

The secesh crowd was, is, and always will be just a bunch of knuckledragging ignoranuses.

Democrap Party

April 23rd, 2009
1:45 pm

The REAL GodHatesTrash, Superstar, didn’t you get banned from Bookmans blog?

Compact Theorists versus Nationalists

April 23rd, 2009
5:47 pm

What we’re really seeing here is the reopening of a very old debate: Compact Theorists versus Nationalists. For decades, kids have been taught the Nationalist Theory in public schools, which is the idea that the Constitution was established among the “people of the United States” in aggregate, not as a voluntary compact amongst the states themselves.

Although the Nationalist Theory is incorrect and always has been, Nationalists inevitably resort to the “Might makes Right” argument of last resort, since the Nationalists won the Civil War, right? Wrong. As Robert Hawes writes in his article, “Nullification Revisited”:

“Might makes right is the most sophisticated reason an authoritarian needs to do anything, although the idea tends to sell better if he wraps it in Old Glory and calls it “patriotism,” while simultaneously demonizing his opposition as “anarchists” and/or “anti-American…However, others of a less philosophically rigid sort understand that physical force cannot discredit an idea…”

You can read his entire article at:
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=57

Derek

April 23rd, 2009
6:01 pm

The idea that secession is somehow right wing or a reaction to Obama is simply false. The most robust secession movement is in leftist Vermont and gained lots of attention during the Bush administration. Neither is the Hawaiian sovereignty movement or the Lakota Sioux particularly conservative. The Middlebury Institute, headed by Kirkpatrick Sale (who is left wing and very environmentalist) has been the loudest voice promoting secession for many years. It is hardly a right wing group.

The bottom line is that talk of secession in America has always been a reaction to Washington, D.C.’s consolidation of power at home and its empire building abroad.

nathan

April 23rd, 2009
7:41 pm

stop it!!! I am for it!!! You all sound liberal!!! Obama is doing this!!!

The REAL GodHatesTrash, Superstar

April 24th, 2009
8:43 am

Yes, Mr. Crap. Little Jay banned me. He doesn’t like it when I post the terrible truths about you so-called conservatives…

I’ve also been banned from Stormfront and PeachPundit and the creepy Freeper boards.

So Little Jay has his fellow travelers. So so much for the AJC and free speech.

(I can’t post on the Woo-tan board either, but why would I want to?)

Brett Pike

April 24th, 2009
10:32 am

The issue of the military bases is not trivial. At present the country is easily defensible as we have control of both coastlines as well as neighbors who, while not trouble-free, are generally cognizant of the fact that their economies are irreversibly geared to ours.

So, in the event that the citizenry of Texas reclaim their sovereignity, what is to be the fate of facilities such as Randolph AFB? It would appear that America’s ability to insert troops has progressed to the point where it’s not tactically necessary to keep them everywhere all the time. Does the Texas Air National Guard step up, or does the state assume Okinawa-type status, in as far as being an American protectorate?

reasonable

April 24th, 2009
10:42 am

Derek – reread my comments, I did not say anything about what I would do or not do. What I stated was the simple fact that attempts to find a legal basis for seccession were misstating the historical facts regarding why rebel leaders were not tried and that at the time there were many who advocated execution due to the trauma of their losses during the Civil War. This was to show that Lincol’s policies and their impact on various surrender documents were a result of a sense of the need to rebuild the country, not some fear of the legal justification for secession (a legal justification which had and has absolutely no chance of being upheld). Also, I made a simple statement of reality, every Prsident since Lincoln would be forced under their oath of office and precedent to put down any rebellion (which by definition would include attempts to secede and certainly could include use of armed force)against the nation. The whole point was to show the utter absurdity of the idea of seccession. Perhaps if the point that the country was not going to peacefully agree to its dissolution in 1860, when Buchanan was still President, had been made more forcefully, southern hotheads would never have gathered such a head of steam. It is important to remember that secession in 1860 was not a popular issue throughout much of the South. Instead, it was a stampede generated by the hotheads among the Deep South political elite, a group which did not, by the way,take a significant part in either the fighting or the political leadership of the Confederacy. As to the barbaric status of 1860, please remember that the underlying cause of seccession and the war was the southern defense of slavery and its desire to expand it into the territories. Ultimately, all wards are barbaric and have complex causes. Sometimes, however, their results justify the awful costs. Very few people would disagree that the destruction of Hitler’s Nazism was necessary. The same is true with destruction of slavery. Please understand, I am not making the simplistic comparison of Nazi Germany and the Confederacy, just that results of two very different wars justified their awful costs. Finally, the relevant point for my Republican friends was that Perry was engaging in this rhetoric to position himself to the right of the conservative Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson, labelling her as a Washington insider, in the upcoming Texas Republioan governor’s primary. My contention is and will remain, playing with political gasoline from either the right or the left to further personal ambition and fire up the far right ot left is irresponsible. Ultimately, there can be no such thing as peaceful seccession, therefore waving that banner without regard for the consequences to the nation, the people and even one’s own followers is terribly irresponsible.

[...] know what we’d do without them, but they’re pretty confident about what they’d do without us.  MY wife is a Texan, MY dad is an adopted Texan, and there’s no shortage of pride from [...]

Anonymous

April 25th, 2009
3:55 am

Yeah the party of lincoln now wants to quit the Union. You republicans are seriously a mess right now, 4 months into a democratic administration and your already talking about quitting America?

Taxes are going back to 1990’s levels, and Obama is spending a bunch of money putting people to work so we dont have mobs of unemployed people(Aka the stimulus). Healthcare is going to become cheaper… seriously why would you want to secede? This isnt fascism, its normal throughout western countries. And since we live in a democracy in 4 years you can elect a republican again, if thats what the people want. Civil war isnt the answer and the party of Lincoln should know that.

Mark

May 2nd, 2009
5:49 pm

I find it rather ironic that a representative from Texas favors proposed federal legislation that, in essence, would require college football to utilize a playoff system. First, Texas Republicans want to secede; the next day, Texas Republicans — the party supposedly for limited federal government — want to use the power of the federal government to dictate how the NCAA selects the national championship. If only hypocrisy like this were a crime…

Gerald Spencer

May 4th, 2009
8:34 am

If Alaska secedes, the Federal lands do NOT go with the state. Secession, therefore, is a failed concept for states where the vast majority of the property are Federal holdings.