Cam Newton, Terrelle Pryor rulings are completely different
Nobody asked me but:
The Cameron Newton and Terrelle Pryor rulings are completely different: Since Ohio State’s Pryor has already played (and won) the Sugar Bowl and Auburn’s Newton will (probably) play in his last college football game Monday night, I’m going to make this point one last time and call it a day.
I had more than a few people from Big Ten country write and tell me that Pryor should get to play inthe Sugar Bowl because Newton got to play in the SEC championship game and beyond. It’s the same NCAA and fair is fair.
First of all, I thought Pryor played great Tuesday night. There is no question that he still has some maturity issues to work through but he is a marvelous athlete playing the quarterback position.
But, in a nutshell, here is the difference in the two rulings:
Pryor: There was a finding of FACT that he and four other Ohio State players exchanged stuff that was given to him by the school for something of value (like money and tattoos). Money did change hands. There is a clear penalty for that in the rule book: four game suspension. The NCAA tacked on another game because it happened a year ago and the players did not report it. You may think it is a stupid rule (a lot of people do) but the rule is clear. The goofy part is that the penalty starts next season, but that’s a completely different argument.
Newton: There was a finding of fact that the father, Cecil Newton, had a conversation with a former Mississippi State player (Kenny Rogers) not affiliated with the school, about the POSSIBILITY of getting paid. There was no finding that money ever changed hands. There was no finding that those kinds of discussions took place with anybody connected to Auburn.
And here is the key component. Unlike the Ohio State case, there was NOT a specific rule in the NCAA manual to deal with the Newton case. There was a lot of speculation in the conventional media and the social media that SOMETHING was going on here. But when it came time to make the decision, the only facts the NCAA had were that Cecil Newton had a conversation with Kenny Rogers and that no such conversations had taken place with anybody connected to Auburn.
Bottom line: If the NCAA could have proven that Cecil Newton had a similar conversation with somebody who had Auburn ties, the son would not be playing today. If the NCAA could have proven that Cecil Newton had taken money from somebody with Mississippi State ties, the son would not be playing Monday night. There was a helluva lot of speculation that SOMETHING took place. And I have heard from people who believe that it simply defies logic that there wasn’t more to this story.
I understand and sympathize with that point of view. But what you BELIEVE and what you can PROVE are different things. It’s a tough case.
And here’s another point. A lot of people have written that the reason Cam Newton was not punished was that he did not know what his father was up to. In retrospect the NCAA should have not included that factor because it only clouds its ruling. The fact that Cam Newton did not know was a MITIGATING factor but not a DECIDING factor in the ruling. There is a big difference.
The NCAA could not sit Cameron Newton because it did not have a specific rule to address this specific case. That’s it. I feel confident in saying that there will be such a rule in the future.
I hope that settles it but I have a feeling this case will never be settled.
Please follow me on Twitter:
“Barnhart and Durham:” Wes Durham and I are back in the 790 The Zone studio today starting at 10 a.m. We’ll break down the latest coaching changes, including the Rich Rodriguez firing at Michigan. We’ll also look back to Mark Richt’s presser conference on Wednesday and how Georgia will move forward. Please join us. www.790thezone.com.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
581 comments Add your comment
Your friendly Neighborhood NCAA investigator
January 6th, 2011
11:39 am
DC( Raymond Babbit) define spamming? I have been upfront and honest and you know it. The argument on your end just does not hold water. It holds cash and payoffs just not the truth or water and that goes to Mike P also.
Joe Bob Thibodaux
January 6th, 2011
11:39 am
Tony, good explanation. The Cam situation looks bad but I think the NCAA did the right thing.
Side note: Even though I hate Bama, Florida, and Texas A & M, I am developing a grudging respect for BAMA dude.
JBT
bamanooga
January 6th, 2011
11:39 am
Tony, still waiting on your special place in Hell column on Cecil Newton. What gives?
The Karl Childers
January 6th, 2011
11:40 am
@Suckeye – I made Slingblade my bee-atch and he knows, and you know it, and the American people know it.
Tell the truth
January 6th, 2011
11:41 am
MikeP Just further indication of the classlessness that has existed at AwBarn for over half a century. You know- you just can’t buy class- you either have it or you don’t. And Awbarn has never had and never will have it. You can’t get to classy coming from Awbarn.
BAMA dude
January 6th, 2011
11:43 am
Thanks Joe Bob. You ain’t gotta begrudge though.
Business as Usual
January 6th, 2011
11:44 am
ARdawg,
Tony hasn’t worked as a journalist for some time now. He just writes this blog for the AJC.
Can’t really blame him… Who would want to report on the sleaze that CFB has now become?
Joe Bob Thibodaux
January 6th, 2011
11:45 am
Dude, I guess you’re right. I just hate Bama.
JBT
Mudd
January 6th, 2011
11:45 am
Bama steals another recruit. Gotta love that. Hey Bama Dude, I think I speak for all UGA fans when I say I would gladly give up the handful of out of state studs we’ve had over the years (Stafford, Green, Moreno, Murray, etc.) in exchange for keeping every stud we’ve lost to sh*thole states that can’t produce their own talent like Bama, Tenn. and the Carolinas.
Can you say the same? Of course not.
David Granger
January 6th, 2011
11:46 am
I never thought that the Terrell Pryor situation and the Cam Newton situation were the same…for the reasons you mentioned. I DO, however, believe that the Terrell Pryor and A.J. Green situations were identical: Same situation, same rule broken, not real forthcoming with accurate info, etc. And A.J. Green was required to miss the next four games, unlike Pryor and the others who got to play in their next game.
Now if you make a ruling based on not wanting to see a multi-million dollar bowl game screwed up when one team loses its main offensive weapon, then fine…that’s a reasonable and legitimate argument. But ADMIT that, and don’t be a hypocrite about it…especially not by “pretending” that they’ll all come back next year and be suspended then.
BAMA dude
January 6th, 2011
11:47 am
LSU man JBT?
David in Cumming
January 6th, 2011
11:47 am
Tony,
This is obvious that you are nothing more than an apologist for the NCAA and SEC and their money machine. They are protecting their brand and product that is the elite college athlete. SInce your livelihood is also part of the machine it is no surprise you would sing the company song. But if you believe the Newton’s are no guilty you are not only a fool, but a damn fool.
Erk
January 6th, 2011
11:47 am
There’s no way Cam didn’t know about his dad offering money. There’s just no proof he knew.
The NCAA is consistently inconsistent. The OSU players committed the infractions a year before AJ Green & AJ has to sit out immediately while the OSU players conveniently get to play in the Sugar Bowl (money, money, money, right NCAA??) and have the punishment enforced next season. Does Jim Tressel really believe Prior will not go pro next year?
Bama
January 6th, 2011
11:48 am
Well Joe Bob, I guess I’ll just have to get over it, won’t I?
And I was hoping for Filé Gumbo…
ARdawg
January 6th, 2011
11:49 am
Bama dude
When you ask? Immediately at the conclusion of the investigation. I think I know where you are going with that and it doesn’t hold water. AJ’s investigation was prior to the beginning of the season. Do you believe if the season had started they would have waited until next year to suspend him? If he “signed” a statement of course?
Joe Bob Thibodaux
January 6th, 2011
11:50 am
BAMA dude
I remember the Bear years as a Tiger fan, and its something that we can’t get forget. The young folks just don’t understand.
JBT
CatsFly
January 6th, 2011
11:51 am
I agree w/Tony, but it still don’t extinguish the “stank”. And where there’s “stank”, you know the *$@# ain’t far away.
ARdawg
January 6th, 2011
11:51 am
Business as Usual
Agreed. He’s a CBS Mega-star now *snicker*
boots
January 6th, 2011
11:52 am
If this were Herschel Walker in 1980, I’d support a ruling like this for the NCAA, too. But the fact is ONLY the Auburn fans think the ruling was the right one on Cam, and ONLY the Auburn fans support him playing. That should tell you something. The FACTS are that wrong was done, that negotiations were taking place, and Cam and his father were seeking $. Period. End of story. Auburn fans, you might get your championship, but you WILL have to return it later. Enjoy it for a couple of years, but the truth will come out, and when it does, let me know how it tastes, because right now you are the only ones not being honest about things.
BAMA dude
January 6th, 2011
11:52 am
Mudd, wtf? Three things: 1) Georgia is a significantly more populous state than Alabama. 2) More of Bama’s studs are in-state than you wants to realize. Rolando and LeRon McClain, Julio Jones, and Andre Smith are a few examples. 3) Being able to recruit nationally is the hallmark of a great program I thought?
Bama
January 6th, 2011
11:52 am
Don’t worry JBT. The grandkids will understand.
RTR!!!
BAMA dude
January 6th, 2011
11:54 am
ARDawg, the difference is that you’e punishing the other kids on the team too much by pulling eligibility like that. tOSU self-reported this; it was a player eligibility issue, not an institutional issue. Better to let the kids play their last game then serve next year. Remember, they got an extra game on top of what AJ got too.
BAMA dude
January 6th, 2011
11:56 am
Joe Bob, I don’t have “hate” per se toward LSU. They are a rival that I want Bama to beat, but I don’t hate them. I use hate for the Barn and those orange clad cretins in the hills.
Just a Chicken Farmer
January 6th, 2011
11:57 am
Tony,
We all know the rules and legal issues both Pryor and Newton have broken over the years. It has been well documented and published in almost every sports print in the country. They both were given opportunities to excel, get an education, hone their skills for careers in the NFL. They both broke NCAA rules and we all know the NCAA is about money and money is King. But as a poor Chicken farmer here in West Georgia that borders Alabama we have a saying over here.
You know that white speck that sits on top of a pile of Chicken Shot, it may not look like the rest of the Chicken Shot, but we all know it is still Chicken Shot
Bama
January 6th, 2011
11:57 am
BAMA dude,
I don’t know you, but I can tell that you’re a Republican just by your adoration of legal loopholes.
Roll Tide!
Dontavius Supremo
January 6th, 2011
11:58 am
You’re sounding more and more like a lawyer, Tony. That doesn’t help.
Joe Bob Thibodaux
January 6th, 2011
11:58 am
Bama, you got a good program. So do we. Jefferson will be a senior next year, and we might finally have a QB with Mittenberger. I look forward to the next meeting with the Tide. I always do and always have. Even the Bear, when asked what he liked to do after the game, said he liked to listen to the Tiger game on WWL.
DC
January 6th, 2011
11:58 am
Why will we have to return it later? Do you have any factual proof that you need to send to the NCAA? B/C it seems NCAA got an abundant amount of info before making their “judgement”…if another person comes out..and its another he say/he say..it wont stick…
Don’t think I don’t agree with what went on…I think it was the worst thing a father could do to a son or daughter…His father needs to cower and hide in Newnan for the rest of his life..when i found out his father would be in Glendale I got extremely upset…He needs to vanish.
What will the tapes reveal?
January 6th, 2011
11:59 am
If you do not know what that means, look it up! Relevations..
Bama
January 6th, 2011
12:00 pm
Kudos to the Bengals JBT. You are always worthy opponents.
Give those Aggies Hell!
ARdawg
January 6th, 2011
12:00 pm
Bama dude
Geeze guy, are you serious?
“you’e punishing the other kids on the team too much by pulling eligibility like that”
That has absolutely nothing to do with the price of tea in China. Rules are rules and should be applied evenly. Because OSU was heading to the Sugar Bowl is not a valid reason to set aside the rules. The “other kids” have no bearing on the violations other than they have been playing with a violator of the rules. You’re just like Tony, the NCAA and the BCS cartel, make the rules up as you go.
I call BS on you
Buckeye
January 6th, 2011
12:02 pm
Erk,
Yes, Tressel really does believe Pryor will not go pro. Speculation, before tatto-gate, was the only one of the five that was believed to be entering the draft was Boom Herron – a fourth year Junior.
We’ll see and sooner than later. I am confident they will keep thier word with Tressel. If not, their relationship with the Buckeye family and Columbus will end.
O H……
Les Miles
January 6th, 2011
12:02 pm
I am currently working on my buyout. I need to go home where the folks will appreciate my ability to gamble and win while doing it.
Bama
January 6th, 2011
12:02 pm
@DC
“His father needs to cower and hide in Newnan for the rest of his life..when i found out his father would be in Glendale I got extremely upset…He needs to vanish.”
Like the $200,000.00 did?
ARdawg
January 6th, 2011
12:03 pm
Buckeye
Now that’s funny right there. I don’t care who you are
BAMA dude
January 6th, 2011
12:03 pm
Bama there’s no loophole here anywhere. With Cam, I still maintain that there’s never been sanctions imposed without an exchange of benefits. Ever. Personally, I’d like to keep it that way. As far as the Bucks go, why punish the rest of the team by forcing a bunch of second stringers in at the end of the season? The rest of the kids didn’t do it. I’m fine with letting them serve the suspension with some advance warning. Frankly I don’t think there should be any punishment for a kid selling his own stuff anyway, but that’s another point.
JBT, your ultimate success next year hinges on Mett, I think. If he’s a competent QB then you just might have another MNC run in there. No doubt though, coming to Tuscaloosa is gonna be tough next year. Those young men looked mean and fast in that MSU game.
Les Miles
January 6th, 2011
12:04 pm
Tressel is going to leave because he knows I am coming to Ann Arbor…
Bob in Buford
January 6th, 2011
12:04 pm
You’re completely neglect the rule that states if you agree to accept money, you are ineligible. When Cecil stated his price, he implicitly agreed to accept it, otherwise, why would you ask for something you weren’t going to accept. In addition, according to the rule, it doesn’t matter whether Cam knew about it or not. What you should’ve told the big ten idiots is that there’s no difference between the ohio state situation and AJ Green. It’s all about money, that’s why the osu players were in the Sugar Bowl. I think the days of NCAA control are numbered after this season. Do you think Orrin Hatch might be watching all of this transpire?
Bama
January 6th, 2011
12:05 pm
@Buckeye
“If not, their relationship with the Buckeye family and Columbus will end.”
Yep… heh heh heh.
BAMA dude
January 6th, 2011
12:06 pm
ARDawg, nobody’s “making up” rules. You see, these committees are akin to judges/juries in the legal sense. Once a “conviction” takes place, they are going to come up with what they believe to be appropriate punishment for the offense in question. In this case they decided on five games to start 2011, which I have no problem with.
ARdawg
January 6th, 2011
12:06 pm
Bama dude
I don’t think there should be punishment for that offense either but the fact remains that there is. The other fact is the NCAA is not applying the rules evenly. With you logic, if UGA had been in the #1 in the polls, AJ’s suspension should have been delayed until they were beaten or after the season.
MR
January 6th, 2011
12:06 pm
@DC
sanc·ti·mo·ni·ous
/ˌsæŋktəˈmoʊniəs/ Show Spelled[sangk-tuh-moh-nee-uhs] Show IPA
–adjective
1.
making a hypocritical show of religious devotion, piety, righteousness, etc.: They resented his sanctimonious comments regarding Cam Newton’s father
bamanooga
January 6th, 2011
12:07 pm
One more thing.. Since when has the NCAA needed “proof” to punish an institution? The NCAA is always harping that they don’t have subpoena power and have to act on what they believe to be true or a preponderance of evidence. One has to make an irrational leap to believe if the dad asked for money from one school, he’d then go to another for free and y’all can spin that all day but can’t get around that.
Next, you have MSU coaches on record that his dad/agent solicited money and the dad through a third party confirmed as much. Cam should have been ineligible right there, slam dunk. There is no loophole because no money changed hands, that is laughable. There is a rule on the NCAA books about soliciting money and an agreement. So the NCAA and you are arguing that no “agreement” took place because no money changed hands. I guess when I go to WalMart and they have price posted for bananas that’s not an “agreement” on price from them. Even if I don’t buy WalMart agrees to accept that for a price.
IMHO you, Finebaum and Slive are taking credibility hits for continuing this absurd argument. It’s a huge farce that has become a running joke. In summary the rest of the USA is calling BS.
Les Miles
January 6th, 2011
12:07 pm
I wish we were playing a Big Ten School, they are easier to beat, just wait till I am at Michigan, I am bringing SEC style football to the North, I have learned alot down here on the Bayou and the SEC.
ARdawg
January 6th, 2011
12:09 pm
Bama dude
You still fail to see the bigger picture, because a team or individual player happens to be more successful does not mean the punishments should be doled out any differently. Big NCAA and Sugar Bowl money came into play on the BucGate decision. No other reason. You can try to digest and explain that away anyway you wish. That doesn’t make it so.
Bama
January 6th, 2011
12:10 pm
@BAMA dude
I don’t really have that much of a problem with the SEC and NCAA ignoring rules violations. I just want the ignoring to be distributed in an equitable manner. But who are we kidding? It’s all about the money — and now, there’s no doubt about that FACT any more.
Whatever… RTR!!!
BAMA dude
January 6th, 2011
12:10 pm
Bob in Buford
January 6th, 2011
12:04 pm
You’re completely neglect the rule that states if you agree to accept money, you are ineligible. When Cecil stated his price, he implicitly agreed to accept it, otherwise, why would you ask for something you weren’t going to accept.
Dead wrong and been discussed ad nauseum. Agreement to receive requires another party agreeing to provide or else no agreement ever took place. If I ask you for fifty bucks and you tell me to jump in a river then there was no agreement. Why? Maybe you would have said, “OK. I’ll give you fifty bucks but you have to come mow my lawn, wash my car, and sleep with my wife.” I might have then said, “No thanks, keep your fifty bucks but do you have any pics of the wife?” See, no agreement.
Mudd
January 6th, 2011
12:11 pm
Wow, seriously Bama Dude? The population card? Just admit your state doesn’t produce squat. I mean it’s obvious to everyone that knows anything at all about football. It’s easily 10-1 out of state studs compared to Bama’s instead studs over the years. Give me a break. Plucking a few kids here and there from out of state does show the might of a solid program, sure, but when you are solely dependent on other states it just shows desperation and lack of hometown talent.
DC
January 6th, 2011
12:12 pm
haha 200K doesn’t vanish…it leaves a trail any FBI or an accountant could find…and that large sum of money should have been found months ago if thats the case…just saying..
"Grocery Bag and an Envelope"....
January 6th, 2011
12:12 pm
TUSCALOOSA, Ala., Sept. 7 — The National Collegiate Athletic Association alleged today that Alabama’s football program was guilty of major recruiting violations, including academic fraud, paying cash for players and throwing parties with strippers.
The alleged violations occurred from 1995 until last year, before the current Crimson Tide coaching staff was hired. But the allegations painted a sordid picture for a program known for winning national championships and boasting that it had stayed out of the N.C.A.A. doghouse.
In one instance, the N.C.A.A. alleged, a booster offered a high school coach $115,000 for a player and actually made three payments of $10,000. Former Alabama coaches were accused of repeatedly breaking rules, then denying any wrongdoing to investigators.
Prospective players were allegedly entertained by strippers several times during parties at a university apartment between 1997 and 1999. And, the N.C.A.A. charged, a former assistant coach failed to report that he knew about a recruit who let someone take a college entrance exam for him.
The N.C.A.A. said many of the alleged violations occurred while Mike DuBose was Alabama’s head coach. DuBose, who coached Alabama for four seasons, became embroiled in a sexual harassment scandal in 1999. He resigned at the close of last season, when the Crimson Tide finished 3-8.
Some of the N.C.A.A. allegations date back six years, when Gene Stallings was the head coach. The N.C.A.A. alleged that a booster in 1995 promised a recruit $20,000 to sign with Alabama. The booster then made cash payments in a plastic grocery bag and in a big envelope, the N.C.A.A. said.