There is peace in the valley–for now

They got it right.

It’s not often you can say that in college athletics because usually when there is a winner  in the sports world there is a loser or multiple losers. But in the case of conference expansion, the powers that be in college football put their heads together and got this one right.

As a result, there were a lot of conference commissioners who spent last night breathing a sigh of relief and smoking a victory cigar. That’s what happens when you dodge a bullet that could have ripped a huge hole into the body and heart of college football as we know it.

When Texas announced last night that it would stay and thus hold the 10-team Big 12 together, it allowed the sport to step back from the brink of what could have been a fundamental change in college football as we know it. Some of it would have been good but most of it would have taken on the feel of a shotgun marriage for financial expediency and survival. There would have been some winners but some proud schools with great athletics traditions–we’re talking about you, Kansas–could have been severely damaged.

You have to understand that if all of the dominoes had fallen into place, we could have had two of the six BCS equity conferences (Big East, Big 12) simply put out of the football business. That would have been an ugly and heartbreaking thing to watch for all of us who love college football. 

But in the deal that was crafted yesterday, nobody got everything they wanted but  just about everybody got something they wanted. That’s the classic definition of a good deal. Let’s run down the conference scorecard this morning:

Big 12: Yeah, they only have 10 teams now that Nebraska has bolted to the Big Ten and Colorado has gone to the Pac-10 (11). That was a good move for both schools. Nebraska wasn’t happy in the Big 12 and will get a big pay raise. Colorado more identifed with the West Coast and will have a chance to compete in football now that the flagship program in the Pac Ten (USC) has been significantly damaged by the choppy waters of the NCAA Committee on Infractions.

You say the Big 12 loses its championship game? Yeah, but you need to know that the coaches in that league are thrilled. They never liked the game and now the winner of the Texas-Oklahoma game can pretty much punch their ticket to a BCS bowl. And the loser has a chance to get into the a big bowl as well. Texas used its considerable muscle to get the payday it wanted. Same for OU and Texas A&M, who used its flirtation with the SEC to make sure that the Longhorns didn’t big foot them on the finances of the new deal. Those three schools were big winners and the other seven schools in the league will get less money. But those schools, particularly Kansas and Missouri, won’t say a word. They are glad to still have a home.

And the Big 12 is not going to add two teams to get back to 12. This is the deal they wanted.

PAC-11: You have to give new Commissioner Larry Scott credit. Because his conference is rarely seen on national television in prime time, he knew he needed to do something bold. So he swung for the fences and tried to create the Pac-16. It would have been a brilliant move and would have sparked a huge bidding war between ESPN and FOX for the television package. But at the end of the day Texas got what it wanted to stay put.

The Pac-11 will add another team, probably Utah from the Mountain West. But remember that I said this: Keep an eye on Scott. He is a very smart guy. Despite the sanctions against USC, he is going to make the Pac-11 a force again.

SEC: The SEC never, ever wanted to expand but commissioner Mike Slive had to have a plan in pace in case his hand was forced. That is why he reportedly (it was never confirmed by his office) went to Texas A&M on Saturday to lay out the SEC case for the Aggies. I believe Texas A&M would have seriously considered splitting with Texas had all of those Big 12 teams moved West. But when the plan was put into place to keep the Big 12 together, A&M was staying put as long as the financials made sense.

So the SEC got what it wanted. It didn’t have to do anything. The conference still has 14 years left on its TV contract with CBS and ESPN. The SEC has won four straight BCS national championships and Alabama will be your preseason No. 1. Life is good. You don’t mess with Happy.

ACC: Breathing much easier today. There was concern that if the SEC felt it had to expand, it might look to strengthen its Southeastern footprint at the expense of the ACC. Everybody in the ACC was publicly expressing their loyalty to the league.

Based on some calls I got yesterday,  trust me when I tell you that if the SEC had added Texas A&M and was looking for a 14th team, it would have gotten very interesting for the Atlantic Coast Conference.

But a note for those who were floating Duke and North Carolina as possible candidates for the SEC: I don’t have the word skills to fully explain how wrong that was. Duke and Carolina were the holdout votes for the LAST ACC expansion. They don’t like having 12 teams now. They sure weren’t going to join a 14 or 16 team SEC.

Big East: The Big East was vulnerable to getting at least three teams poached by the Big Ten and could have been forced to break up, scattering teams like Connecticut, Louisville, West Virgnia, Cincinnati, and South Florida to the wind. As a football conference the Big East lives to fight another day.

Mountain West: Added Boise State, and that’s a good thing. The MWC may lose Utah to the Pac-11 and that’s a bad thing. It also had a chance to draft those cast adrift if the Big 12 had broken up and that sweepstakes could have included Kansas. So the Mountain West didn’t win and it will survive the loss of Utah. The league is on the way to being an automatic BCS qualifier in 2012. Now the Pac-11 could get frisky again and try to take BYU as well, but for a lot of reasons I don’t see that happening.

The Big Ten: I saved the best for last. The Big Ten didn’t get the monster fish it wanted (Notre Dame) but it did get Nebraska and all of its football tradition. Nebraska is in a small TV market (115) so it’s not a home run when it comes to increasing subscriptions  to the Big Ten Network. But the Big Ten can now have a conference championship game on the first Saturday in December if it choses to do so. And it will be huge. 

I don’t discount the possibility that commissioner Jim Delany will someday invoke the nuclear option and go to 16 teams.  But I think that is less likely right now.

After college football came so close to major upheaval and the possible destruction of two conferences, if Delany jumps back into the fray again and disrupts the peace, he will be portrayed as Gordon Gekko, the amoral financier from “Wall Street” who saw life as a zero sum game and himself as the ultimate winner. Too many people have worked too hard in the past five days to basically save college football from itself.

Today college football is at peace and Delany reads the tea leaves as well as anybody. The Big Ten stays at 12–for now.

So it’s been quite a ride, boys and girls. Of course when the next television contract comes up for negotiation, we’ll probably be having these conversations again. But for now, I’m anxious to start talking about football once more. I’ve had just about all of the high finance that I can stand.

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307 comments Add your comment

Titus

June 15th, 2010
8:41 am

Duke and UNC to the $EC…bAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHH.

Like those two fine institutions would stoop that low.

Deloss Dodds

June 15th, 2010
8:41 am

It’s good to be king.

Jake

June 15th, 2010
8:43 am

Did we over react?

quedog

June 15th, 2010
8:44 am

I am very happy there were no more changes than occurred. I believe Notre Dame will eventually wither on the vine if Kelly does not rev them up. He is their (last, next to last, there will always be a) chance.

Zeeeeeeeee Nachos

June 15th, 2010
8:45 am

SEC does not need to expand. Especially when we have a powerhouse like Jawja in our conference.

Mr D

June 15th, 2010
8:46 am

Let me get this straight: the Big 10 is actually 12 (and was actually 11 the past few years); the Pac 10 is now 11, and the Big 12 is actually 10. OK, are these conferences going to be renamed, or do I just have to remember which is which?

Balderdash

June 15th, 2010
8:47 am

Yawwnnnn. Whatever.

Mimeograph

June 15th, 2010
8:50 am

Who are all these clueless Yankees, who write Jawja. I’ve never heard a human being pronounce it that way. Jorja, sure, but jawja? Pfft. Stupid Yankees.

Doug

June 15th, 2010
8:50 am

Isn’t it amazing that a team(Texas) that has won exactly 1 NC in the last 40 years seemed to be in control of the future of college football.

You Ain't-Know Gaily Whacker

June 15th, 2010
8:55 am

Once a king always a king, but once a knight is enough.

We were saved from greed. Keep America strong–build more submarines.

uga_b

June 15th, 2010
8:58 am

I still think the former Big 12 comes out a loser. They lost the 2 best teams in the north.

Jacket Backer

June 15th, 2010
8:58 am

very glad things are staying put……Tech belongs in the ACC and i’m happy nothing is changing that….

Go Jackets!!

MMA is stupid

June 15th, 2010
9:03 am

So, now there are two conferences that cant count??? Big 12 (10 Teams) and Big 10 (12 Teams)…ughh….anyone????

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
9:09 am

Tony—-

There will be no peace in the valley until the Big Ten (12) and the Big XII (X) officially exchange names by negotiated treaty.

The Big 8 became the Big XII with the addition of four SWC refugees.

The Big 9 became the Big Ten when Michigan State joined.

How about some truth in college football adervtising?

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
9:10 am

I suppose the Pac-10 can continue to call itself the Pac-10, since Southern Cal just got neutered and spayed.

Mike

June 15th, 2010
9:12 am

And the Irish keep their independance once again!

Bologna

June 15th, 2010
9:13 am

Well they’re in the ACC titus.

No to 16

June 15th, 2010
9:15 am

It will be interesting to see what kind of results the Big Ten gets from its continued expansion study. I don’t see anything else happening for at least a year, but it’s not outside the realm of possibility that the Big Ten will go after 2 more teams to make it 14 in the next couple of years. Personally, I’d like the Big Ten to offer membership to Missouri and Pitt. With Missouri, at least the Big Ten could attribute its name to the number of states making up the conference footprint. Pitt’s addition would also rekindle the rivalry with Penn State which I know doesn’t make much difference in SEC country, but would be huge for the Northeast. Then the SEC and Pac-10 could expand to 14 teams and we can all sit around and laugh at Notre Dame on the outside looking in.

5IML

June 15th, 2010
9:16 am

Texas played everyone the Big XII and Pac10 like drums. They are to be commended and despised for their actions.

5IML

June 15th, 2010
9:16 am

Texas played the Big XII and Pac10 like drums. They are to be commended and despised for their actions.

Tim

June 15th, 2010
9:19 am

Deep down inside, Texas nor Texas A&M wanted to come to the SEC. Texas didn’t want to play Florida or Alabama the week before or after they played Oklahoma. Throw into the mix a schedule that might have included LSU, Auburn, UGA, and UT in the same year. Yikes!!!

PTC DAWG

June 15th, 2010
9:19 am

Nobody with a brain thought Duke or UNC was in play….

I think the student athlete won this go round. I say good for them.

WB

June 15th, 2010
9:20 am

So the big 12 is now 10. i guess they will change their conf look to be like the big 10 and vice versa. no more north and south.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
9:23 am

You know, after the Pac-10, Big XII and Big Ten follies of this past week, I’ve come to have a new respect for Notre Dame’s desire to remain the last meaningful independent in major college football. The Big Ten has done everything short of leaving a metaphorical horse head in Notre Dame’s bed in order to bribe, cajole, threaten and extort Notre Dame to join, and still the Irish say “no.”

At some point, Notre Dame, Jim Delany and the Big Ten start to resemble Bowie, Crockett and Travis giving the finger to Santa Ana and his army. Good for you, ND! Fight on (or whatever they say in South Bend)!

Grantland Rice

June 15th, 2010
9:23 am

Tony:

Have you heard anything about Arkansas leaving the SEC to join the Big XII? Also the Big XII may add another team (TCU)?

5IML

June 15th, 2010
9:28 am

AG,

ND remains independent out of a misguided, archaic sense of importance. Besides the special BCS rules, they are in no way meaningful in college football.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
9:29 am

5IML—-

Texas most certainly did not play everyone like a drum. They over-reached, and they got several nasty surprises, including Colorado and Nebraska’s departure for greener pastures, Texas A&M’s refusal to join Texas’ fool’s errand to the Left Coast, and the State of Texas political establishment’s complete disapproval of UT’s proposed move to the Pac-10. Texas has engendered an awful lot of bad will among the remaining members of the Big XII (X), and when the Big XII breaks up again (and it will), no one will trust the Longhorns. Period.

Alphare

June 15th, 2010
9:29 am

Good.

The reason Texas has the saving power is money. Texas is big, and the money there is big too.

As for Texas’ football tradition, well, it’s a mixed bag. They did win a lot of regular reason games because of weak competitions. But when it comes to big stage like National Champ, it’s a UGA of the wild west (in terms of number of titles).

RxDawg

June 15th, 2010
9:31 am

Thank god…. 12 teams is great, it just works. There should be a cap on 12 just to cut back on the rampant greed.

help, I live in Ga

June 15th, 2010
9:32 am

The NCAA is still an institution that votes for a football champion at the end of the year. Get rid of the BCS and have a playoff. Then I will say that they got it right. Or maybe we are moving in the right direction like the Big 12-10. Get rid of the conference championship game to avoid having your strongest team play an extra game and get knocked out ot the mythical national championship voters gala. But the Big 10 12 is going the other direction and looking to add a conference championship. This new name game is definitely going to cause some problems.
ok, new names. The former Big 10 wich is now the Big 12 should change their names to the “Large And Slow, We Can’t Throw” Conference. That’s right, the LASWCT conference from the North.
The former Big 12, now 10 should be called “We Used To Be Three Yards And A Cloud Of Dust Till A Pirate Came In And Took Over Texas Tech, So Now We Are The Seven On Seven Don’t Know How To Play Defense” Conference. I don’t have time to figure out the anacronym on that one.

So what do you think? Any more suggestions for New Conference Names???

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
9:33 am

5IML—-

That’s all good and true, but I admire the stubborn streak of independence. The only thing I don’t like is the better-than-deserved deal the Irish were able to strike with the BCS. They should be treated just like any other non-AQ BCS member in terms of qualifying for a BCS bowl. If they finish in the top ten of the BCS standings, they’re in. If not, they’re not.

I’m afraid when it comes time for ND to renegotiate their NBC television contract, I’m afraid it will come to an end, however.

Big Dawg

June 15th, 2010
9:33 am

Atlanta Gator, I disagree. Bottom line, Texas got what it wanted, their own TV deal and about 25 million a year. Osborne never liked Texas and Dodds, that was certainly no “nasty surprise”.

Reptiles Rule

June 15th, 2010
9:37 am

All’s well that ends well. I don’t care what the individual motives were. College football is a big time winning formula right now, even with so many disatisfied with the BCS format. That will gradually evolve as it has from year to year. The importance is to preserve the tradition of the game and keep the regular season highly relevant. Let’s not screw it up.

RxDawg

June 15th, 2010
9:39 am

“But a note for those who were floating Duke and North Carolina as possible candidates for the SEC: I don’t have the word skills to fully explain how wrong that was….”

Ha! I was one of those people, but I admit I was just blindly tossing the idea around but only if we HAD to expand. I’m not familiar with the politics, feelings, and legalitites of some schools. In fact, I had no idea that so many academic elitists were out there thumbing their nose at SEC schools. That’s probably more jealously than anything.

I’m just very much glad it’s a non issue now.

fbfan

June 15th, 2010
9:39 am

Atlanta Gator -

You got it exactly right, from everything I have read. A&M’s interest in the SEC (and the SEC’s interest in A&M) totally astounded Texas.

TONY – Could you please inquire to learn whether A&M was given an invitation by the SEC, and if it was unconditional? That would clear up a LOT of fuzziness about the past week.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
9:42 am

Big Dawg—-

The Big XII (X) lost a lot with the departure of Colorado and Nebraska, including the loss of two of its better academic schools, it damaged the strength of schedule for Oklahoma and Texas, possibly making it harder to qualify for the BCS championship against undefeated conference champions from the SEC, Big Ten and Pac-10, and it completely burned any conference loyalty left in the Big XII (X). Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri and Texas A&M will spend the remaining lifetime of the rump Big XII (X) secretly negotiating their contingencies so they will not again be left without a chair the next time the Sixth Street music stops.

No, Texas’ failed departure from the Big XII is not a win, but they can console themselves with their extra $10+ million per year, which, as I am sure you know, is a drop in the Longhorns’ bucket.

SimpleDawg

June 15th, 2010
9:43 am

Well…..now the Big 10 + 1 can exchange names with the Big 12 – 2. Name problem solved.

Ski bum Colorado fits right in with surfer dude, tree hugger conference.

The harlot Huskers got their payday to turn tricks…..

….and Texas got their TV deal and the confirmation that they are indeed the tail that wags the dog….or maybe they’re the dog and the rest of the Big 12 – 2 is the tail. I’m sad to hear that there are no plans to add 2 teams to return to a 12 team conference. It doesn’t seem right with a couple of very worthy teams close by in TCU and Houston. I guess Texas and OU want to limit their exposure to being dethroned as the kings of the conference.

Oh well, now the SEC can continue to be the football power conference, the ACC can continue to be the basketball power conference, and the Big East can merely continue to be.

One big question: Now does the SEC TV package seem under valued in the wake of all of the threatened upheaval of college football?

naganole

June 15th, 2010
9:45 am

This is not over because the SEC will expand. They were taken aback by the lack of due diligence done by the Pac 10 offering 1/2 of the Big 12 schools. Next time expansion happens (which will be within the next 2 years), the SEC will be the conference starting it off…

UT96

June 15th, 2010
9:45 am

On a lighter note, heading up the SEC in this years Fulmer Cup, —–wait for it—-Georgia and Florida (tied at #6 in the nation).

Congratulations!

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
9:47 am

fbfan—-

We all have our blind spots, and UT’s Berkeley-educated president clearly has a few of his own? I mean, can you imagine a respectable academic institution that would not want to be associated with the left-wing nuttiness of Cal-Berkeley? Unbelievable!

5IML

June 15th, 2010
9:47 am

AG,

I think Texas never intended to leave the Big XII and orchestrated this entire fiasco to run off a couple of members to increase its power (if that’s possible) and money. I doubt Texas truly felt threatened by atm’s flirtation with the SEC because they knew their lil brother didn’t have the sack to strike out on its own. Regarding bad will towards Texas, everyone in the conference has hated them since the Big 8 expanded. What’s new?

You are right about ND. Once the numbers are crunched during the next round of negotiations with NBC, they will go grovelling to the Big 10.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
9:49 am

UT96—-

I expect a late push from a fellow SEC member. Afterall, there is a reason why it’s called the FULMER Cup. With Kiffin’s departure for an earlier-than-anticipated NCAA probation, it may take the Volunteers awhile to regroup . . . .

= )

help, I live in Ga

June 15th, 2010
9:50 am

Come on people. We need new names. So far we have: “Large And Slow, We Can’t Throw” Conference. That’s right, the LASWCT conference from the North
And the We Used To Be Three Yards And A Cloud Of Dust Till A Pirate Came In And Took Over Texas Tech, So Now We Are The Seven On Seven Don’t Know How To Play Defense” Conference
New conference names are now on the table. The floor is yours. We need suggestions. Name the new confereces. And you can’t use the word “Big” followed by a number anymore….

UT96

June 15th, 2010
9:51 am

Atlanta Gator- touche:)

T3

June 15th, 2010
9:51 am

Well, lets try this as a brief list of Winners & Losers
in regards to all this realignment talk:

Winners:
Texas (for sure)
More money; new Longhorn TV network coming; got rid of top competitor Nebraska; go to slap around IowaSt,Kansas, KanSt, Baylor, and Mizzou to keep the complainging down.

OK: Yeah, more money, and got rid of Nebraska.

And more money for the remiaing Big12 schools.

Dan Beebe, for sure.

Colorado: Better money than Big12, but PAC10 has big issues coming;
better recruiting alignment since most recrutis are from Cali anyway.

Losers:

SEC: Publicly “dissed” by Texas and OK.

IowaSt, Kansas, KanSt, Baylor, Mizzou:
They now know their merely the “fleas” riding on Bevo.

Joe Schad of ESPN:

“I have CONFIRMATION from 4 separate sources that the Big12 schools WILL be moving to the PAC10.” What a fool. Lost all credibility.

Tony Barnhart:

From “WHY TEXAS MUST LISTEN TO THE SEC” to today’s mea culpa
“THEY (the Big12-2) GOT IT RIGHT.” Lost almost ALL credibility.

No two sports reporters looked more out-of-touch than these two hacks.

fbfan

June 15th, 2010
9:52 am

5IML -

Your 9:47 post summarizes the ‘Horns party line on this, but it flies in the face of the reports that Texas really, really wanted to be in the Pac16, and would have gone there but for A&M’s refusal to go along. From that point on, it played out so that the Big12-2 “survived,” but not with just Texas and OU getting the lion’s share of the money, but A&M getting a guaranteed $20 million, too.

Here’s the Texas-biased orangebloods article which admits that BIg3+Little7 scenario: http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1094372

Will

June 15th, 2010
9:53 am

Tony:

Here is the latest from my very reliable source within the Big 12. You may recall yesterday that I reported that the Big 12 would remain largely intact in spite of the national media reporting that six schools would leave for the Pac 10.

The Big 12 wants to maintain the additional revenue from the Championship Game by adding two teams. This mostly likely will come from TCU and/or SMU and the very valuable Dallas-Fort Worth market.

Rather than SMU, Arkansas is the first choice of everyone but leaving the SEC would be a financial “step down”.

Another possibility is Houston with a remotely possible Colorado State showing a great deal of interest. Rice is not an option nor is BYU because of their Sunday prohibition.

I will update you as my source continues to dig deeper.

RxDawg

June 15th, 2010
9:53 am

“LASWCT conference from the North”

Epic

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
9:53 am

5IML—-

Yeah, and a CIA-led cabal of Cubans, gay New Orleanians and disaffected U.S. military officers really assassinated Kennedy and set Oswald up to take the fall. Riiight.

I got news for you: nobody is that good. Not even the Mission Impossible Team or James Bond (and they’re not real, either). No, Texas thought they had a hit a home run, and they barely stole second base.

UT96

June 15th, 2010
9:56 am

Enter your comments here

Otto

June 15th, 2010
9:57 am

I don’t see the SEC expanding unless other conference do as well. The SEC CG is the only Conf CG that has been a success. The matchups work and the conf wins titles while making more money than any other.

Tx A&M could have emerged from the shadow of Texas with a move to the SEC. I think both sides were beginning to see that. Texas ran the SWC into the gorund and has ran 2 storied programs out of the BigXII with their revenue sharing deals for the conf. Tx A&M would be the only school in Texas that could sell the SEC to Texas recruits. LSU and Arkansas would recruit Texas even heavier. Texas would end up not having a lock on Texas talent with OU.

The next thing the media and most of the public had wrong is the 16 team mega conf was not a way to a playoff but a way out of it. If the PAC and Big10 went to 16 teams they would push for 2 speperate divisions, no championship games and a possible 3 BCS bids. I could also see the Cotton in the Jerry Dome becoming a BCs bowl. If the PAC10 and Big10 stopped a playoff from happening a few years ago, why would that change now? Especially with money coming in from a monster TV deal and 3 BCS bids.

fbfan

June 15th, 2010
9:58 am

Will -

Before last night’s deal to “save” the Big12-2, everyone said Arkansas would never leave the SEC because it gets so much more money from the SEC than it ever could from the Big12.

Well, with the guaranteed $20 million a year to Texas, A&M, and OU in the new Big12-2, there would appear to be a good possibility that that Big12-2 MIGHT be in the position to offer Arkansas a slot in the Big12-2+1 that could garner Arkansas SEC-type money.

In addition, let us NOT forget WHO is the BIGGEST Arkansas alum with the BIGGEST football palace on the planet … yes, Jerry Jones of JerryWorld. Don’t you think ol’ Jerry isn’t cooking up schemes to bring his Hogs into the Big12-2 as one of the two additions it would need to get to 12 and a championship game to be played in …. JERRYWORLD?????

CMS

June 15th, 2010
9:58 am

I think Texas likes being the big fish in a small pond. They can do that in the Big 12 or Pac 10 or 11 or whatever they want to call themselves. But they know they can’t be the big fish in the SEC. It just won’t happen. Simply put they’re the bully that doesn’t like being bullied.

No to 16

June 15th, 2010
9:58 am

I don’t think the SEC will initiate any further expansion. I think you’ll see the Pac-10 make another move, then the Big Ten to 14 teams, then the SEC to 14 teams. The SEC has no need to expand unless the others do. And even if that occurs, the SEC will have the entire ACC to choose from….neither the Pac-10 nor the Big Ten will be a threat there.

And as far as Notre Dame goes…it’s just a matter of time before the NBC deal disappears (thanks to Comcast) and the BCS changes its deal in order to allow more top level teams to participate in its bowl games. And although the Big Ten would love to have Notre Dame in the conference, you’re not going to see the Big Ten make the first move. Notre Dame will have to apply before the Big Ten discusses anything further with Notre Dame. In the end, Notre Dame will need the Big Ten more than the other way around.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
10:01 am

Otto—-

Actually, the Big XII championship game was a big success, too, but that’s gone now.

Otto

June 15th, 2010
10:01 am

T3, Texas did look at the SEC and the SEC’s offer to A&M likely saved the conf or prevented Texas from taking even more money in the deal that save the Big12, or SWC, or Big8 whatever fits now.

It will be interesting to see if the Big10 plays a championship game or if they go after more teams.

Winkasdad29

June 15th, 2010
10:02 am

Until College Football gets a playoff to determine a National Champion, the business aspect will always take some of the luster off of a great American sport. I dislike the fact that for college football, it’s all about money and not about the sport. I thought sports were played to determine a champion on the field. Get rid of the conference championship games. Win your league, get invited to the playoff. 6 or 8 teams, use the bowls as playoff games. Then the National Championship Game with ALL of North America watching! That would be AWESOME!

RxDawg

June 15th, 2010
10:02 am

Will

June 15th, 2010
9:53 am

Nice post

Otto

June 15th, 2010
10:04 am

Atlanta Gator, The BigXII CG was never the success of the SECCG and the coaches/ADs never liked it. The media is correct the Red River Shootout is now the BigXII CG and both teams stand a good chance of getting in BCS bowls.

A win win for the 2 teams that run the conf and get money based on the bowls and championships they play in.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
10:04 am

fbfan—-

The only way that the Big XII (X) can offer SEC-like money to Arkansas is for Texas to give up some of its own disproportionate share. So, I ask you this: given every thing we have learned about the money-grubbing, me-first Longhorns this past week, how likely is that?

DAWG Colonel

June 15th, 2010
10:04 am

Truly a Win-Win-Win. The SEC is functioning quite well at 12 teams. Texas got a bone to chew on and Nebraska and Colorado got new homes that make more sense.

The landscape will certainly change in another 5 years so don’t sit back and assume this is final. There are alot of college programs on the rise (TCU, SMU and Boise State, USF) who will become very attractive if the current trends continue. Not to be overlooked is the current BCS structure so you can see storm clouds on the horizon.

But the sky is clear at the moment. And the SEC is happy and life is good.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
10:06 am

No, no other conference championship game has equalled the SEC’s, but the Big XII’s was making very good TV money.

State the obvious: no Big XII (X) championship game = fewer conference TV dollars to share.

Otto

June 15th, 2010
10:07 am

Winkasdad29, Not having a playoff adds luster to the BCS CG and the entire season. Every game matters and an upsaet can completely change the Nation Championship picture.

College Football is getting headlines in the middle of the offseason. CFB in many parts of the country is overshadowing a dream NBA finals matchup. The system works makes money and keeps fans hooked even if it is voice their dislike for it.

5IML

June 15th, 2010
10:07 am

Texas wants its own network. The Pac10 is about to create a conference network where each member relinquishes its rights to its material. The Pac10 said Texas would not be granted an exception. Texas was only going to the Pac10 if the Big XII ceased to exist. And the Big XII would only cease to exist if Texas left. A catch-22 controlled by Texas.

How much of a risk did was Texas taking:

Oklahoma publicly said they would blindly follow Texas
Texas’ legislators would not allow TAMU to split with Texas
The other Big XII schools had no other alternatives

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
10:08 am

Oh, yeah, and the biggest opponent of the Big XII (X) championship game just joined the Big Ten (12).

SimpleDawg

June 15th, 2010
10:09 am

The Big 10 + 1 + 1 should be the RuBAC……the Rust Belt Athletic Conference.

The Big 12 – 2 should become known as Bevo and his Heifers.

And…

The Pac 10 + 1 should be known as The Hang Eleven conference….or maybe The Tree Huggin’, Wave Ridin’, Mogul Jumpin’, Cactus Conference.

Otto

June 15th, 2010
10:09 am

Atlanta Gator, no BigXII CG is likely to make more money for OU and Texas which run the conf.

Yes Iowa St., Kansas, Iowa St etc likely make less but they didn’t have say in this to begin with.

Tarheel72

June 15th, 2010
10:10 am

The ACC will probably expand to 16 for better geographical alignment (UConn, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia would allow for a real nice North/South divisional package). But one thing you can take to the bank. Carolina and dook will be together forever and will always be in the ACC as long as there is an ACC. They are more joined than Oklahoma/Texas or Michigan/Ohio State. God himself could not part UNC/dook, no matter how much money was at stake.

RxDawg

June 15th, 2010
10:12 am

Another thing to consider about the Big XII (X) championship game is the fans. They have already had a taste of it, and it tastes good. The fan demand for another championship game will make the Big XII (X) supply it.

Paul in RDU

June 15th, 2010
10:12 am

AG – In order to win the Fulmer Cup this year you are going to have to leapfrog Phil’s former OC’s team. The administration in Durham is not going to be happy.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
10:17 am

The 2009 SEC championship game generated $14.5 million for the SEC. Let’s assume the Big XII (X) game only generates two-thirds of that; since when is $10 million chicken feed? Texas just royally screwed seven of the ten remaining members of the Big XII (X) for an extra $10 million a year.

RxDawg

June 15th, 2010
10:18 am

Tarheel72, it wouldn’t surprise me to see the ACC try to steal some thunder from all of this and expand. I’d say the conference is in some jeapordy mainly due to the failure of the championship game. So they may feel preasured to try to make some splash and expand.

I’m not trying to knock the ACC, as it has some solid teams, but look at what just almost happend to the Big 12, who has (had) a great championship game and had one of it’s teams play for the national championship last year.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
10:20 am

Paul in RDU—-

Try as we might, the Gators can’t seem to achieve a breakthrough in the Fulmer’s Cup standings. The Gators may just have to console themselves with another 7 SEC championships and 2 more NCAA titles. With the College World Series still pending, there may yet be another consolation prize.

: P

T3

June 15th, 2010
10:21 am

Will makes an EXCELLENT point.

Anyone else remember Barnhart’s May 10th article titled:
WHY ARKANSAS WILL NOT LEAVE THE SEC??

Barnhart wrote…
“Let me tell you in no uncertain terms why that won’t happen…”
regarding a move by Ark to the Big12.

Barnhart wrote that Ark wouldnt leave the SEC b/c Ark couldnt earn from the Big12 anywhere near the $17 Million/Year they earn from the SEC.

Uh-Oh ?! Really ?!

Initial reports are stating that members of the Big12-2 will get between $14 – $20 Million per year in a new contract. If the BIG12-2 chose to add to more teams, money would be more like $20-$25 Million/Year.

And for those who havent noticed $20 Million > $17 Million.

Uh-oh.

IF……the Big12 chose to invite new members
to make 12 again (or 14), these teams would be on the short list:

Arkansas
Houston
UTEP
SMU
TCU
New Mex
New MexSt
Arizona
Arizona State

AZ & AZST would be stupid not to move to the Big12 if invited.

NOt saying it will happen, but it is lacks credibility to say arrogantly that “IT WONT HAPPEN.”

So, once again, “Mr. College Football’s” credibility takes another hit.

Otto

June 15th, 2010
10:24 am

Atlanta Gator, it is a band aid and much of the BigXII jsut took a possible hit.

http://www.rockmnation.com/2010/6/14/1518199/mizzouexpansionapalooza-2010tm-so

The article has some interesting info on the remains of the BigXII. We maybe back here in a few years.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
10:24 am

RxDawg—-

It would be brilliant if the ACC would grab Connecticut and Syracuse, solidifying its northeastern flank against further Big Ten (12) intrusion. Both are solid academically, good basketball schools and periodically produce ACC or better quality football teams.

Paul in RDU

June 15th, 2010
10:27 am

AG – With some of your top points scorers for the Fulmer Cup in 2009 having left for better paid occupations you will have to bring in some excellent recruits. I am sure that you will reload and finish in your usual positions both on and off the field

Boise Dawg

June 15th, 2010
10:27 am

Everyone keeps saying Utah to the Pac 10 and that does seem logical. Just curious Tony if you think there is any chance the Pac 10 would take Texas Tech instead? Better football tradition and you get the state of Texas. Texas Tech breaks out from the long shadow of Texas and may make more money as part of the Pac 10.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
10:28 am

T3—-

Read carefully. Texas, Texas A&M and Oklahoma may get $20 million, but not the other 7 have-nots of the Big XII (X).

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
10:30 am

Paul in RDU—-

No doubt the Gators will find the means to “gouge” their back to competitiveness in the Cup standings.

; )

fbfan

June 15th, 2010
10:31 am

From The Ralphie Report – if this comes to pass, CU & Utah will have VERY happy fans:

http://www.ralphiereport.com/2010/6/14/1518549/cbs4-denver-colorado-buffaloes-to#comments

Think about the differences in road trips between the Big12 North and such a Pac12 (or 12Pac!) South, and not just the destinations, but the MILES AND MILES of countryside through which one would have to drive to reach each such destination from Boulder:

Ames, Iowa Tucson, Arizona
Manhattan, Kansas Salt Lake City, Utah
Lawrence, Kansas Phoenix, Arizona
Lincoln, Nebraska Pasadena, California
Columbia, Missouri Los Angeles, California

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
10:32 am

Bosie Dawg—-

Without Texas and Oklahoma as part of a “package deal,” there is no way in Hades that the Pac-10 would ever take Texas Tech. Ditto Oklahoma State.

Tom S

June 15th, 2010
10:39 am

I see a contradiction in Tony’s article. He says the SEC doesn’t want to expand, but yet when A&M was in play, they made an offer. Nothing was forcing the SEC tp do that.

I actually think the SEC got at bit of a black eye out of this — they were publicly rejected by both A&M and Texas. It was reported that UT did not want to be associated with the SEC’s poor academic standards. Ouch.

Boss

June 15th, 2010
10:40 am

Barnhart couldn’t be more wrong.

The Big 10 is still expanding to 16, they are still in their 12 month timetable. This is nowhere near over, it’s just slowed back down to the original timetable set by the Big 10.

The Big 10 is now the undisputed top conference in America. They have 4 of the top 10 all time winnings programs in football. And they make many millions more per school than the SEC in TV deals. They do all this while maintaining top notch academics top to bottom. All 12 schools are in the AAU. Only 2 SEC schools are in the AAU and Florida doesn’t really belong there.

Finally, the SEC did not get what it wanted. It wanted a school in Texas. It made an unconditional invitation to a school in Texas. And it did not get a school in Texas. The SEC was rejected by Texas A&M. The SEC lost. Pretty simple.

Not all ACC schools are pledging loyalty. In fact, only Maryland, Miami, and Virginia Tech made any such pledge.

I understand that southern reports are going to have some bias in their analysis, but this piece by Barnhart is just plain off the charts foolish in it’s lack of objectivity.

Otto

June 15th, 2010
10:40 am

BoiseDawg, I do think the PAC10 was telling the truth when they said it was not about a Championship game. It would not surprise me if the PAC stays at 11.

I think conf. expansion has cooled off for now but I do not think talks are completely over.

richham

June 15th, 2010
10:41 am

The Big 12 may have gotten the money they wanted, but they are going the route of the Big 10. No conference game equals less exposure at the time of the year you really need it. The Big Ten will now slide back up into the top with the SEC for national title game rights.

I don’t care how much Texas thinks of itself, it’s pretty clear that the national exposure the Big 10 gains will put the Big 12 behind the SEC, Big10, and even the ACC. Losing that title game is a much larger hit than everyone thinks. Just wait and see.

This is a great spot for the ACC. If they were to snag Conn and Syracuse, it would be a huge boost to an already strong basketball conference and actually one up everyone else in football.

Otto

June 15th, 2010
10:43 am

Employee, I do agree that this Big10 is back on their timetable and that this is not over.

However much of the SEC makes more than the BigTen with their ability to make their own in state TV deals and control over the brand.

fbfan

June 15th, 2010
10:50 am

Big12-2 now has major pressure to schedule top-flight out-of-conference opponents …

… or else its OU-UT winner early in the season in Dallas (and thus likely undefeated winner of the conference title so long as there’s no playoff game) SHOULD have great difficulty having the high strength of schedule component required to get into the BCS championship game.

SO … wouldn’t it be sweet if those schools can’t succeed in getting such top-notch OOC opponents? (OU has some on its upcoming schedules, but UT does not.)

gcs

June 15th, 2010
10:51 am

I have been saying for years that the NCAA should just change the rule that says a conference needs 12 teams to have a championship game to 10 teams.

Now that all this chaos is dying down, new NCAA president, Mark Emmert, needs to step up. I would also like to see a NCAA rule against mega-conferences. They are not good for the game.

.

T3

June 15th, 2010
10:59 am

Atlanta Gator: try to “Think” carefully.

In a (10) team “BIG12″ conference, TX, TexasA&M, and OK
would get…AT LEAST $20 Million/Year…with the other 7 schools
getting between AT LEAST $14-$17 Million per year.

LINK: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5286672

If the BIG12 chose to add two (or more)more teams, the payouts would likely rise to AT LEAST $20-$25 Million per year for the “lesser” 9 teams, with Texas, TexasA&M, and OK E-A-S-I-L-Y getting closer to $30 Million per year.

Even with a brand new BIG12-2 contract…BIG10 “powerhouses” like
INDIANA, PURDUE, NORTHWESTERN, and MINNESOTA…WILL STILL…earn more and WILL CONTINUE TO EARN MORE than Texas, TexasA&M, and OK.

Texas, TexasA&M, OK surely beleive they are “worth” more than
INDIANA, PURDUE,and others.

Now that Texas, TexasA&M, and OK HAVE EVIDENCE that they are “worth” $20+ Million per year in a (10) team conference, it wouldnt surprise me if Texas, TexasA&M, and OK announced that they were now “suddenly” emboldened with a “new sense of confidnece” and decided to “go shopping” for two more teams.

And, contrary to SEC super-homer Barnhart’s narrow-minded diatribe,
Arkansas WOULD BE THE VERY FIRST SCHOOL contacted by the BIG12.

And, in a newly-reformulated BIG12, a team like Arkansas would earn MUCH MORE than the $17 Million/year they get from the SEC.

Bottom-line:

This “realignemnt” process may not be over,
and Arkansas “could” be in play.

Otto

June 15th, 2010
11:01 am

SOS is no longer part of the BCs formula. OU and Texas have scheduled OOC along the lines of most strong BCS schools. The pressure maybe on Mizzou to schedule OOC if they want to make the BCS CG but that was the case in the BigXII at 12 teams.

valdosta

June 15th, 2010
11:05 am

i agree with many here.

tony insists on wearing his sec-colored glasses and its
left him really out of touch with whats been goign on

his reporting stinks

Gridiron Gator

June 15th, 2010
11:13 am

Laughing about some of the Fulmer Cup comments here. Wouldn’t be saying a whole lot if I were UT. I know there had a very “verbose” meeting over at the Florida Football complex yesterday. Meyer has had it with the behaviors and is extremely close to a zero tolerance policy. Everybody on the team will be punished and there are some reports of Frankie Hammonds imminent departure despite the fact that he had a prvious clean record and good academics. Still, there is no substitute for stupid……

Gridiron Gator

June 15th, 2010
11:15 am

Sorry about the typing, not my forte I guess.

big12 Poke

June 15th, 2010
11:15 am

gotta agree with some of what t3 said.

tx, tamu, and ok are in a solid position to arm-twist to leveridge for big tv money, larger than what the big10 gets. no way in hell tx is gonna accept the same or less money than what indiana or nwestern gets.

they do everything bigger in tx, and now is as good as any time to get back to 12 teams.

adding arkansas will almost resurrect the old SWC conference.

adding utep and houston would keep a lot of big12 tv money inside the state.

RxDawg

June 15th, 2010
11:20 am

Arkansas won’t leave the SEC for the Big XII (X) unless it’s for a whole lot more money. It’s kind of the one bird in the hand vs. two in the bush kind of thing to put it simply. The SEC is solid, can you say the same thing about the Big XII now? Plus they don’t wont to really give off the feeling that they are for sell to the highest bidder every year.

I think it would take a significant amount of money to move them because there is a little more to it then just $’s.

Charlie Bama

June 15th, 2010
11:23 am

Tony, Tony, Tony. I told you this was gonna happen! (man up and admit it.) Plenty of noise, some colorful streamers and then, well, nothing spectacular. It was all geared toward forcing ND into the Big Tin (didn’t work), then saving face by inviting the Cornhuskers (nice back-up plan). Then that little head fake prompted Colorado to the PAC 10, where it’s “all about academics” (NOT about Colorado not wanting to be left out in the cold and NOT about locking up the Denver TV eyes). And Texas and its little bubbas dancing with the PAC 10? All for show. The only thing I could not have predicted is Auburn bolting to the Sunbelt, but I expect they’ll be happy there for a few years anyway.

Don

June 15th, 2010
11:28 am

If the Pac 10 didn’t want to add Baylor because of church affiliation then they certainly are not going to offer BYU. BYU’s only option is the Big 12 if they ever want to expand from the current 10 schools. They PAC 10 won’t touch them.

fbfan

June 15th, 2010
11:28 am

About the Hogs …

Read up on how T.Boone has given a boatload of bucks to OkieState and UTexas.

Jerry of Dallas would surely love to do the same for his beloved alma mater, although he probably doesn’t have the bucks to do so just yet, given how much he must have leveraged himself to build JerryWorld. Anyway, if Jerry and some of his rich pals with Razorback roots were to provide sweeteners to Arkansas, that might make up some or all of the difference in how UArkansas might view a switch to the Big12-2+1or+2….

Just sayin’

Because last night’s FOX and ESPN $$$ to the Big12-2 hasn’t yet sunk in with many. Heck, it FLOORED the Pac10 commissioner, who looks like a fool today.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
11:29 am

T3—-

Please provide links to written, reliable sources. And, no, I don’t mean fan blogs.

I will believe it when I read it in the Austin-American Statesman, Dallas Morning News, Houston Chronicle, New York Times or St. Louis Dispatch. In the mean time, I treat it like the fantasy it is.

Ask yourself this: why would ESPN or anyone else pay $300 million per year for privilege of television Iowa State vs. Kansas State? Put down the crack pipe and step away. It takes a lot more than two decent teams to make a conference worthy of $300 million per year.

sliderule

June 15th, 2010
11:30 am

Texas played the whole Big 12. Sad.

T3

June 15th, 2010
11:30 am

One more thing

Nebraska just stuck out their middle finger to Texas,
and will now earn…AT LEAST…$22+ Million/Year in the BIG10.

No way Texas is gonna take that crap and smack-talk from Nebraska.

Now that the BIG12-2…HAS BEEN TOLD…what kind of TV money
they can command WITH ONLY (10) teams, I think the odds are HIGH
that the BIG12 could just “GO BIG” right here, right now and pick two more teams.

I really dont think the BIG12 is just gonna sit there and watch the BIG10 command more money than the BIG12.

It would be bad PR for Texas and the BIG12 for Nebraska to leave
and be commanding MORE money than Texas, TexasA&M, or OK.

This “pissinng” contest between Nebraska and Texas aint over yet.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
11:49 am

In normal conferences, revenue is shared equally. Anything else is unstable and inevitably leads to disagreements, resentments and better deals from higher bidders.

RxDawg

June 15th, 2010
11:54 am

volky

June 15th, 2010
11:55 am

Let me get this straight: the Big 10 is actually 12 (and was actually 11 the past few years); the Pac 10 is now 11, and the Big 12 is actually 10. OK, are these conferences going to be renamed, or do I just have to remember which is which?

Mr. D:

You simply have to refer to the Big XII as “Big 12-2″ and the Big Ten as “Big 10+2″. However, if further re-alignment occurs in the future, it may be necessary to have a working knowledge of the Pythagorean Theorem in order to know who or what someone is talking about with regards to these two conferences.

North Avenue Ned

June 15th, 2010
12:01 pm

Does the ACC play football?

T3

June 15th, 2010
12:02 pm

Atlanta Gator

Spare…ALL OF US…with the …put the crackpipe down stuff.
Its old and worn-out.

Go back and look above. I ALREADY prvodided a link to ESPN
that wasnt a fan blog.

Lets use the info and numbers from the previous posted ESPN link:

7 teams X $15 Million/Year = $105 Million/Year
(IowaSt, Kan, KanSt, Mizzou, TxTech, Baylor, OKSt)

3 teams X $20 Million/Year = $60 Million/Year
(Texas, TexasA&M, OK)

As its tentatively proposed now, thats a total of $165 Million/Year
just from ESPN. And, that does not count any possible ABC-TV contract potential.

The new SEC-ESPN contract pays the SEC about $150 Million/Year.
That does not count the SEC-CBS contract money.

LINK:http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/stewart_mandel/07/24/sec-espn/index.html

So, the fact is this: as of RIGHT NOW…a (10) team BIG12
can command about MORE ESPN TV money than a (12) team SEC.

Ask YOURSELF this:

“Why would ESPN or anyone else” pay $200+ Million or more per year
for the priviledge” of watching Vandy vs MissSt?

Or Vandy vs ANYBODY?
Or MissSt vs ANYBODY?

The point remains: if the BIG12 decides to go get two more teams right now, the money would DWARF what either the BIG10 or the SEC pays.

And that might persuade Arkansas to move to the BIG12.

RxDawg

June 15th, 2010
12:08 pm

“The point remains: if the BIG12 decides to go get two more teams right now, the money would DWARF what either the BIG10 or the SEC pays.”

That’s a bold statement. And one I really don’t believe. Moving along now…

T3

June 15th, 2010
12:11 pm

Atlanta Gator said:

“In normal conferences, revenue is shared equally. Anything else is unstable and inevitably leads to disagreements, resentments and better deals from higher bidders.”

Not sure what a “normal” conference is.

The opposite can also be said.

Why would Florida or Bama (with a much higher level of success)
be happy about making THE SAME as also-rans like Vandy or MissSt??

Chris

June 15th, 2010
12:14 pm

You forgot one winner here. ACC basketball, which has won 9 of the 10 ACC-Big Ten challenges will now win all of them for the forseeable future. That is thanks to Nebraska basketball being added to the event!

Otto

June 15th, 2010
12:16 pm

Name a conf other than the Big12 that does not split revenue equally,

Otto

June 15th, 2010
12:18 pm

UF and Bama play in a conf that puts great teams on the field and a schedule that puts them in the BCS CG. The equal revenue sent to all teams helps majority of the teams put a respectable team on the field.

T3

June 15th, 2010
12:19 pm

RxDawg:

If a (10) team BIG12 can commmand MORE ESPN-TV revenue than
a (12) team SEC, then what so hard to believe about
an actual (12) team BIG12 commanding EVEN LARGER dollars?

Texas isnt gonna just stand there and watch Nebraska earn
SIGNIFICANTLY MORE than Texas.

This “peace-in-the-valley” may not last long.
than than Texas.

Paul in RDU

June 15th, 2010
12:20 pm

T3 – “As its tentatively proposed now, thats a total of $165 Million/Year
just from ESPN. And, that does not count any possible ABC-TV contract potential.”

You do realize that ESPN and ABC Sports is the same thing, I hope. There isn’t going to be any extra “ABC-TV contract potential”

Boca Baby

June 15th, 2010
12:23 pm

Pardon me but this new Big12 minus 2 looks a lot like the old Southwest Conference. Once again Texas becomes the kingpin that all the other lesser schools suck up to just to get a piece of the pie. This combination will most certainly have a bearing on strength of schedule and, in the absence of a conference championship game, leave the new alignment vulnerable to be more easily leaped over in the final BCS poll. What kind of furor do you expect an undefeated Texas to exhibit when they don’t get the final nod against a one loss SEC or Big Ten candidate? Can you say Auburn? Its not burnt orange but its close! At least “burnt” is the apropos word fitting of such a scenario.

bamafan

June 15th, 2010
12:24 pm

Tell me how Colorado will be competitive in football in the PAC 10? Colorado has not been competitive for years and unlikely to do much in PAC 10 even when USC may be down.

Honky Talkin'

June 15th, 2010
12:24 pm

Thank God this has been resolved! This was an agonizing three weeks.

Old Tech fan in NC

June 15th, 2010
12:26 pm

To RxDog…before you declare the ACC champ game as unsuccessful, give Charlotte a try.

Geography at work.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
12:28 pm

T3—-

As a Longhorns fan, I am fairly certain that your inability to understand what constitutes a “normal conference” was intended to be ironic, but it is.

Paul in RDU

June 15th, 2010
12:29 pm

Why the SEC is now and always is likely to be superior to the Pac 10 + 1 +…..

http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/2010/6/14/1518040/in-college-football-supremacy-it

Boca Baby

June 15th, 2010
12:30 pm

Old Tech fan in NC: What is the difference between a cold, wet, dreary Jacksonville and similar conditions in Charlotte? Can you guarantee pristine conditions in the Queen City?

heat

June 15th, 2010
12:30 pm

Here’s what I think happened… texas got it’s bluff called out by Nebraska. After Nebraska and Colorado left look at the options on the table for texas. They could move to the pac 10, stay in a 10 team big 12, move to the sec or move to the big 10. Newsflash… all of those are worse than what they currently had. In any other conference they are faced with tougher competition, more travel and equal revenue sharing. By staying in a 10 team big 12 they will continue to have their wishes as it relates to revenue but they also lost a strength of schedule component. With the big 12 the way it is now you could seriously make a case that boise state has a better strength of schedule than texas does. I could easily see either Oklahoma or texas going undefeated and not making the title game because the rest of that conference is not very good.

Hard to Admit

June 15th, 2010
12:34 pm

Never thought I’d agree with the Birmingham Blow-Hard (Finebaum), but I do today. Texas never had any intention of leaving. They played everyone like a violin.

wish we had am in the sec

June 15th, 2010
12:35 pm

Would loved to have seen the sec go to 14 teams. I never liked the 16 team model. I had high hopes that texas a&m would come and give us a foothold in texas. Finally I really dont like the fact that espn and texas seem to have alot more power than they should. All I want is to see great games in the SEC every week..

[...] is peace for now in college football, writes Tony Barnhart of The Atlanta [...]

Fulton Resident

June 15th, 2010
12:41 pm

@ Doug 8:50am

Texas has won 4 NC in the past 47 years. Also, Texas has the wealthiest football boosters and athletics program in the country – and its always been that way. That is the real reason why they pull so much weight. There is alot of power behind that money.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704541004574600051780005902.html

big flippin deal

June 15th, 2010
12:43 pm

ok….so we all had something to write about during one of the slowest (unless you work for the PD on an SEC campus) times of the college football year.

who cares? it all boils down to what happens in september-december.
all the rest of it is filler.

Old Dawg

June 15th, 2010
12:43 pm

Tony: Great piece, as always. One question, do you think the Big 12 will try and attract SMU into the conference? The Mustangs were members of the old Southwest Conference and they would be a natural fit with all of the long-term rivalries from the past.

Thanks for continuing to produce great copy!

[...] is peace for now in college football, writes Tony Barnhart of The Atlanta [...]

John

June 15th, 2010
12:52 pm

I think its funny how all the media sources said “the big ten is REALLY after notre dame” I find that hilarious because the big ten never contacted notre dame, notre dame contacted the big ten, and the only reason anything happened now was because of the big 12 ultimatum. so who was the big ten going after? use your heads not just all the garbage your eyes see people.

Rob

June 15th, 2010
12:58 pm

Articles at both ESPN and SI seem to indicate that the new Big 12 tv deal hinges on only dividing the money ten ways, so the Big 12 will probably just stay at ten teams. (Somebody has to figure out what to do with the names.) Of course, this time yesterday the Big 12 was dead … until it wasn’t dead anymore.

I do also think the Big Ten might still go to fourteen in a year or two, but I think that will be two Big East schools or one Big East and ND. I don’t think it will be anything that will require a response from the SEC.

get the facts straight

June 15th, 2010
1:03 pm

Nebraska was the Big 8 bully. Texas supplanted them as the bully, at the same time eliminating the partial qualifier – the tool that Nebraska had so successfully used all of those years. Nebraska whined for the next 15 years. Texas is asking for the rights to their own TV network, just like all of the schools in the SEC currently have. No more, no less – if the rest of the Big 12 or whatever schools can pull it off they are welcome to give it a shot. Except for the uniforms, Nebraska is nothing but a shell of their former selves, and should be on a better playing field going against Indiana, Purdue, etc. Colorado is broke, disorganized, enjoys skiing – good riddance. College football is a business – do you actually think Texas is going to give Iowa State the same cut? If the roles were reversed, any of the Big 12, or for that matter SEC, Pac 10, etc., have nots would turn around and do the very same thing if they could.

ugaman

June 15th, 2010
1:04 pm

i agree with atlanta gator.

fbfan

June 15th, 2010
1:12 pm

THIS is a great example of why the SEC and PAC and Big10 should NEVER invite the University of Texas to become part of their conferences:

Via Stewart Mandel (of Sports Illustrated) on Twitter (@slmandel):

“Unbelievable. The five “leftovers” (KU, KSU, ISU, BU, Mizzou) agreed to sign over their share of CU/NU’s buyout money to UT/OU/A&M.”

Not to mention the $20 million a year guaranteed to each of UT/OU/A&M, which is millions more than the “leftovers” will get each year in the Big12-2

heat

June 15th, 2010
1:14 pm

completely agree fbfan! I would have loved to have seen texas in any of those conferences and have to compete on a level playing ground in terms of tv revenue distribution.

fbfan

June 15th, 2010
1:17 pm

TexAgs’ Liucci says A&M had firm offer from SEC w/o any strings:

“Yes, the offer from SEC was unconditional and they guaranteed they would take A&M even if they were only the 13th member”

billyliucci Jun 14 11:25 pm

http://www.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=1643355&forum_id=5

LOTS of Aggies unhappy their bigshots didn’t vote to join SEC

Steve Twyman

June 15th, 2010
1:21 pm

The Big East needs Notre Dame! All their other teams are in the conference and the conference needs to make a push to get the football team to join as well. The Big east is a basketball conference, but with the inclusion of a college football institution like Notre Dame the conference will not die but in my opinion grow with the posible returns of Boston College and Miami. Catholics vs. Convicts: The Rebirth!
IT MUST HAPPEN!

Realtity Check

June 15th, 2010
1:21 pm

Not a Nebraska fan but they got the shaft with a questionable call at best in the Big 12 championship game. They were at least equal to Texas and looked like a better team. If you compared the overall success for Nebraska and Texas since 1980 I think Nebraska has won More NC’s and played for the NC more times. I would think it is a good move to go to the Big 10 where the schools are treated equally and not a lackey for UT and Oklahoma.

UT(Texas) is an overrated program that has benefited from being in a three team conference. At least the SEC has had multiple champions from Auburn, Alabama, Tennesse, Florida, Georgia and LSU over the last 10-15 years so one or two teams have not dominated the conference (contrary to the Alabama and Florida talk).

Also, if Arkansas wants to leave the SEC, good riddance. This program has done nothing for the SEC in football and has not been any good in basketball since Nolan Richardson left. They would probably be a good contender in the Big 12(-2).

5IML

June 15th, 2010
1:22 pm

Bottomline: Texas is the big winner here. (Nebraska and the Big Ten also won.) Texas had no intention of leaving the Big XII and manipulated the situation to get everything they wanted. Texas came out of this mess smelling like Earl Campbell.

[...] is peace for now in college football, writes Tony Barnhart of The Atlanta [...]

PMC

June 15th, 2010
1:32 pm

So the Big 2 really won’t play but one really tough game a year on a neutral site. Awesome.

That will lead to nice epic national championship game blowouts. Perfect.

Yeah they got it right. More bowl seasons that aren’t worth watching.

The matchups get EVEN WORSE yay.

heat

June 15th, 2010
1:41 pm

PMC, i really think texas and ou are going to have to play some out of conference games that are tough. I thought last year’s big 12 was weak and it just got much weaker over the past week. LIke I said I can see both texas and/or OU getting passed up for the national championship game.

John

June 15th, 2010
1:56 pm

The big 12 just got pathetic. the level of competition will diminish even further now that very little money goes away from texas and ok. meanwhile nebraskas national fan following will rake in money for the big ten and increase the competitiveness of the conference as a whole. along with a championship game. bottom line the big ten knew what they needed to make the conference better and got it, and the big 12 just signed its own conference ratings death warrant to save jobs at the league office.

OB-1

June 15th, 2010
2:01 pm

Atlanta Gator,
If the ACC were to expand I would suggest U Conn and Pitt, in these two you get a great basketball school and a very good, historically great, football and a very good basketball school.

Joe Tess Fish House

June 15th, 2010
2:11 pm

Tony, you jag off……You wrote about the virtues of the SEC and stated that Texas should consider joining, then you write this, stating how great it is that Texas remains in the Big XII…..I hope you don’t get paid for your SEC nut hugging homerisim blog.

fbfan

June 15th, 2010
2:13 pm

If you think the Big12-2 isn’t long for this world, you’re probably right.

From a poster at EDSBS, with a “pretend” note from Texas’s Dodds:

Dearest friends and conference “equals”:

I heard a rumor that some of you may wish to use your testicles this weekend. Please remember that they are kept in my desk drawer, and that 72 hours advance notice is required to check them out. All balls must be returned to my possession by 4 p.m. Sunday. And don’t you dare make direct eye contact when you’re doing that.

Sincerely,

Deloss Dodds

http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/2010/6/15/1519316/its-just-a-mild-form-of-extortion#comments

John

June 15th, 2010
2:23 pm

thats pretty funny(and true). Nebraska got sick of it. whats funny is the nebraska buyout is probably only 1/3 of the tv money every school in the big 10 will receive every year. I would love to see the huskers win the big 12 this year. go onto a bcs bowl and win then flip off the big 12 as they ride towards the big ten taking a resurgent fan following with them.

MattCat82

June 15th, 2010
2:28 pm

Stoop that low? Stoop to the SEC? Stoop to the most powerful football conference in the country. Stoop from $78 million to $205 million. Yeah, that would be terrible.

Rich in Chicago

June 15th, 2010
2:41 pm

After this last weekend, the Big12 is an even more dysfunctional “family” … but somehow “THEY GOT IT RIGHT”???

Texas and its “special interests” have been messin’ with member institutions and college football since before the old SouthWest conference. I feel bad for the Big12 North schools… they all wish they could be Arkansas or Nebraska… Anything to get away from their “abusive husband”.

Will

June 15th, 2010
2:44 pm

Tony, speaking of football….. UGA insiders tell me that Jarvis Jones will be soon strapping on the pads for UGA. A huge get who can provide immediate depth at LB. Look for an announcement any day. The UGA defense could be one of the nations strongest if what I am hearing comes true. Which usually it does.

Beast from the East

June 15th, 2010
2:54 pm

I say to heck w/ all of ‘em in the SWC….or Big12 or whatever. The SEC still sits at 12 schools. Still sits atop college football.
It’s good to be the king!

CHAMPS

June 15th, 2010
2:57 pm

I think Tony has been taking too much vacation. He was late too the party more than once this summer, starting with his doomsday scenario for the ACC TV negotiations which turned out to be FALSE. He was wrong about Big Ten expansion — he never thought it would the Huskers. He was wrong about the ACC being vulnerable: they werent. The southern teams didnt make sense and would have been blocked by in state forces. He was wrong about VT. He was wrong thinking Texas HAD to listen to the SEC…Slive couldnt even get near DeLoss’ ear.
But that is what you get for being the SECs mouthpiece. You have to jump when Slive says so.

Baylor Bear

June 15th, 2010
2:58 pm

It appears that Mr Deloss only cares about UT and at the expense of everyone else. Think he saw how much money USC would rake in, when UT had to play in the Coliseum…don’t believe he was gonna be happy with USC making that much for a home game.

G8R GRAD

June 15th, 2010
3:02 pm

A & M parlayed its way to the big table with its flirtation with the SEC.
Texas, in its arrogant indignation, couldn’t believe its little brother could be so insolent!
How dare they!
We’re Texas, for cryin’ out loud!
Atta boys, Aggies!

fbfan

June 15th, 2010
3:03 pm

(From The Ralphie Report http://www.ralphiereport.com/2010/6/15/1519413/12-man-blog-notes-on-dan-beebe-6#comments):

12th Man Blog Notes on Big 12 Commissioner Dan Beebe’s 6/15 Teleconference

bumped and notes provided by Bob_Bell

You can’t make this stuff up. This summary of the Big 12 teleconference today by I am the 12th Man, the SBNation Texas A&M blog, continues to show us why the Buffs made the right move to get out of the Big 12-2. Here are a few juicy parts but their are plenty of others worth your time at I am the 12th Man:

I just listened to the Dan Beebe live teleconference on the ‘new’ Big 12 Conference; some observations:

-Texas Tech has yet to commit to this new deal; he is hoping they do so later today. (I believe their Board of Regents meets today?)
-There is no official agreement from all the schools to stay together, just promises, handshakes, and commitments. Technically, this means there is still room for negotiations with other conferences, should a school still be inclined to leave.

-There are no concrete numbers on the new television deal; it is all based on just estimates. I guess no one in the A&M leadership has ever heard the phrase, “Make sure you get that in writing?”

-The “Forgotten Seven” (Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Iowa State, Oklahoma State and Texas Tech) are going to take their portion of the penalty payouts from Nebraska and Colorado and give them to Texas A&M, Oklahoma, and texas. Yes, you read that right, those five schools are so happy to be able to remain in a BCS conference, they are bribing A&M, OU, and texas to stay here with them.

-Beebe is incredibly defensive of texas; seemed to bristle anytime someone questioned their role in this whole melodrama. I guess Dodds didn’t tell him how he was supposed to answer those types of questions.

-Beebe was asked how he would respond to people who said this whole situation was just a major powerplay by texas? His response was, “texas has a lot of influence.” **Facepalm**

-Beebe said several times that Texas A&M, texas, and OU all had other conferences looking at them, that all three had other options, so it was essential to give them a bigger piece of the revenue pie to keep them in the Big 12.

messin with.........

June 15th, 2010
3:07 pm

the irish remain in the regis philbin honorary conference.

messin with.........

June 15th, 2010
3:10 pm

and will never be forgotten as long as lou holtz is on espn………….

messin with.........

June 15th, 2010
3:11 pm

we had already forgotten nebraska and oklahoma, btw…………

Paul in RDU

June 15th, 2010
3:15 pm

Let’s see if there is really a deal here for the Big XII – II. Lots of promises but nothing signed and delivered yet.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5289050

The league’s more lucrative contract with ESPN runs through the 2015-16 academic year, while a deal with Fox is reportedly in its final two years.

The Sports Business Daily reported Tuesday that no new deal has been signed with Fox, but sources said that FSN told Big 12 officials it would increase its annual payout to as much as $130 million to $140 million per year in exchange for rights to televise games, plus add radio, local media, smaller sport TV rights, corporate sponsorships and signage in stadiums and arenas.

WVMountaineer

June 15th, 2010
3:15 pm

Many Mountaineers would love to see their team eventually end up in the ACC.
The SEC is not realistic for West Virginia because the SEC is not interested in the Big East footprint.
Poaching from the ACC would be the SEC’s interest.

The BCS is better off with six qualifying conferences rather than four.

T3

June 15th, 2010
3:16 pm

CHAMPS

Well said !!

Barnhart is a piker.

Johnny FuPa

June 15th, 2010
3:18 pm

I REALLY WANT TO SEE THE ACC REACH IT’S POTENTIAL AS A FOOTBALL CONFERENCE WITH MIAMI AND FLORIDA STATE BACK! IF WE GOT ROBBED OF SCHOOLS THIS YEAR, WE WOULD HAVE NEVER KNOWN HOW GOOD THE ACC IS EVENTUALLY GOING TO BE IN FOOTBALL. NOT TO MENTION WE HAVE BACK TO BACK NATIONAL CHAMPIONS IN BASKETBALL.

Ormewood

June 15th, 2010
3:18 pm

Charlotte just might work for the ACC championship game. Yeah, the weather could be bad, but I used to live there and went to plenty of Sunday afternoon Panther games in December. It’ll likely be fine weather-wise.

One of the main reasons that the SEC game works so well at the GA Dome, is that Atlanta is an easy drive ( not a flight with one week’s notice) for most teams in the conference, plus there are lots of alums from every SEC team in Atlanta. The same is true for the ACC when it comes to Charlotte.

If Va Tech is in the game, regardless of opponent, it will sell out. Clemson would bring tons of fans. It’s a little less than four hours for Tech fans to drive up. UNC is two-plus hours away. This doesn’t take into account the alums that live nearby. THe game probably should have always been in Charlotte in the first place. Tampa and Jax are too far away for most ACC fans, and each town has minimal alum presence with the obvious exception of the Noles.

Paul in RDU

June 15th, 2010
3:22 pm

Ormewood – I agree with you about the game in CLT. It is obviously the best geographic location – it’s driveable for everyone apart from BC, FSU and UM. Only issue at that time of year is the weather – you can’t be sure of what you are going to get

WVMountaineer

June 15th, 2010
3:22 pm

I would pay a mint just to see ACC commish Swofford get his pocket picked by the SEC.

Turnabout is fair play [big east].

T3

June 15th, 2010
3:30 pm

Well, just like I said at 12:02 today.

This from BIG12 press conference this afternoon:
LINK:http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news;_ylt=AmyUSAXddIHzNHMp5ZBRhl4cvrYF?slug=ap-big12-beebe

“The head of the Big 12 says the decision by Texas and other members to stay put was solidified by the knowledge that the league is valuable for television.”

But he(Dan Beebe) says consultants and media companies verified that the Big 12—even as a 10-team league—is in a “tremendous position” to negotiate future TV deals that will be “on par with any in the country.”

So, like I said earlier today…

A (10) team BIG12 can now command
MORE ESPN-TV revenue than a (12) team SEC.

Which logcally means, that…IF…(or when) the BIG12 ever decides to go back to 12 teams, the money it would command would likely be much larger than what the BIG10 or the SEC currently pays.

ACC

June 15th, 2010
3:32 pm

WestVirginiaMountaineer,

We will never take WVU due to its poor academics. WVU is a tier 3 school and is just not up to the standards of a Duke, UNC, or UVa.

T3

June 15th, 2010
3:33 pm

WV Mountaineer:

If WV was invited to the ACC,
do you think most WV fans would go for that?

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
3:41 pm

heat—-

The real story is this: Texas had a limited window to pull off the move to the Pac-10 before Texans and Texas politicians began questioning the move. Having learned from its 1989-1990 flirtation with the SEC that it had to take the two Texas state schools with it in order for the legislature not to get involved, it hatched its plot accordingly. Funny thing happened though. Texas A&M, the second Texas state school had no desire to go the Pac-10 and let it be known that it actually preferred the SEC. That’s when the fun really began.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
3:46 pm

BTW, they easily could have kept Nebraska in the fold by offering the same loyalty pledge they were demanding of Nebraska. Texas refused to offer the same multi-year pledge that it was demanding of Nebraska. Arrogant little cusses, aren’t they.

I really used to think that having Texas in the SEC was a great idea. I am now absolutely convinced that it is a horrible idea. They would introduce an element of off-the-field drama into the SEC that has been absent since the whole Bear Bryant-Bobby Dodd dust-up in the 1960s. The SEC is an equal-share conference of equals: Alabama gets the same cut as Vanderbilt and has the same voting rights. Texas would find a way to screw that up.

Put a sock in it

June 15th, 2010
3:51 pm

Atlanta Gator knows everything. If you don’t believe it, just ask him.

Otto

June 15th, 2010
3:52 pm

T3, The BigXII had 12 teams and did not get more money than the SEC. What 2 teams are going to replace Colorado and Nebraska that will make more money?

Otto

June 15th, 2010
3:53 pm

Atlanta Gator certainly knows more than many other posters.

Paul in RDU

June 15th, 2010
3:53 pm

T3 – Do you REALLY think that a conference covering 5 states with a combined population of 40MM (Big XII – II) “can command” more money than a conference covering 9 states @ 60MM (SEC) or 9 states @ 68MM (Big 10 + 2)? And that isn’t even considering that PSU has a strong following in NJ & NY.

Otto

June 15th, 2010
3:55 pm

Nebraska was out unless revenue was split equally and most likely the OU game restored to a yearly game at a minimum. Texas would not allow either.

Metoo

June 15th, 2010
3:55 pm

MISTER College Football, An ACC team to the SEC? Put up or shut up!

Chuck

June 15th, 2010
3:57 pm

Texas is officially the 300 lb. bully of college football. They got a bunch of schools to allow them to do whatever they want to do. The remaining Big 12 North schools had to agree to give up their shares of the buyouts that Nebraska and Colorado will pay and give them to Texas, A&M and Oklahoma. In other words, Texas just beat them up and took their lunch money. To top it off, Texas gets to start their own network separate from the TV agreements that Beebe is promising.

Oh, and I don’t ever want to hear another Kansas fan brag about their basketball program. It might have a lot of great history and tradition, but it ain’t worth squat to anyone else. Had the Big 12 disintegrated, the best their basketball program would have gotten them was an invite to the Mountain West.

Otto

June 15th, 2010
3:58 pm

Atlanta Gator, Texas is that girl that is almost one of the hot girls but has some blemish and creates drama to make up for it. They have money and talent but for all their perceived assets underachieves.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
4:03 pm

Otto—-

Good metaphor. Mind if I steal it?

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
4:05 pm

Chuck—-

“. . . beat them up and stole their lunch money.” Okay, I am in fact laughing out loud. That’s funny.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
4:06 pm

“Put a sock in it”—-

Read much, do you?

Tide Rising

June 15th, 2010
4:06 pm

Lost in all this talk about Texas and the other bcs conferences is the fact that Boise joined the Mountain West. I know most people don’t give a hoot but to me its a bigger deal than people think.

Boise will no longer have essentially a 1 or 2 game season with one or two good noncon opponents and then the easy wac schedule of cream puffs although Fresno is respectable. Even if Utah bolts to the pac-10 as has been the speculation the mountain west still has good teams in BYU, TCU, even Air Force that could make things a lot tougher for Boise. It would no longer be so easy to just stroll through their conference schedule unbeaten and then whine about not getting a national title shot. Plus it would help the Mountain West get an overall bcs bid. Given the Mountain west’s complete dominance over the pac 10 the last couple of years there’s no question that if the big east gets a bcs bid that the Mountain west should get one also, especially if Utah stays.

cloudy

June 15th, 2010
4:07 pm

It’s all about the money now and all the Universities involved should be ashamed of themselves. There is no longer any semblence of integrity amongst our “leading educational institutions”. It is a complete joke and says volumes to the young people and young students of today.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
4:09 pm

T3—-

Are you really that gullible? Consultants? The Big XII (X) commissioner? I’ll believe it when the contract is signed and reported in a major newspaper of record.

Michael

June 15th, 2010
4:10 pm

I was shocked, and not in a good way, by how unprepared for all this the SEC seemed to be. Maybe it’s time for a new commissioner.

Brawndo's got electrolytes

June 15th, 2010
4:11 pm

I would seriously like to see the business case that justifies significantly more money for a smaller conference. With (potentially) rebounding Nebraska out of the way, UT and OU are the only two relevant teams left. A&M has a long way to go to become relevant again and where are the televisions markets for the rest of the conference? I personally think this is great. The SEC now can put an exclamation mark on being strongest conference.

I disagree that Notre Dame is irrelevant. They are still money makers and have a massive fan base and I don’t see that changing . . . but that is the only thing that makes them relevant. I do agree that they are no longer relevant as far as college football championships or success – they will continue to be football joke for years to come.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
4:12 pm

TR—-

Good point. You’re right: that is damn important. Assuming that Utah doesn’t jump to the Pac-10 (11), the MWC is line to become one of the automatic qualifying members of the BCS. That, by itself, should give Utah pause in accepting a bid from the Berkeley crowd.

Beast from the East

June 15th, 2010
4:17 pm

cloudy,
Of course it’s all about the money. That still doesn’t have any negative effect on the academics does it? In fact, most schools with a huge athletic budget are able to receive doantions from the boosters to help strenghten their academics by building libraries, funding scholarhips, etc. UGA’s just donated $2,000,000 last month. Don’t lose sight of the big picture. Success on the field can help greatly with success off the field.

Paul in RDU

June 15th, 2010
4:19 pm

AG – Rumor has it that Beebe is being advised by Tony Hayward in his dealings with the member schools of the Big XII – II

Paul in RDU

June 15th, 2010
4:21 pm

Beast – Success on the field or on the court tends to lead to an increase in applications

USC

June 15th, 2010
4:21 pm

The PAC 10 will offer Utah by next week and they will accept. Here is the big news, we will have the biggest conference TV deal by the end of the year when they announce the ACC-PAC 10 Network. Can you imagine that network with the football, basketball, and baseball.

Beast from the East

June 15th, 2010
4:22 pm

Does anyone think the Big East still deserves an automatic bid? I say give that bid to the MWC. It’s much more competetive the last 5-7 years. Look what happened to their representative last year. Vandy played UF tougher.

cloudy

June 15th, 2010
4:24 pm

Beast from the East I am talking about the big picture- the real reason for Educational institutions. God help us that we have allowed the “big picture” as you put it become the amount of money that a program generates or donates to the school. Our University teams have replaced the factory teams that were in abundance in the early 20th century.
And of course that does not even touch the farm club mentalty of the NBA and NFL. Lose sight of the big picture? I haven’t but I think you have.

Beast from the East

June 15th, 2010
4:24 pm

Paul in RDU,
You’re right. I remember reading about George Mason the year they went to the Final Four. They had an almost immediate surge in applications.

Tide Rising

June 15th, 2010
4:28 pm

Atlanta Gator,

Well I guess we’re all sharing our equal disgust with Tejas and the way it strongarmed the other big 12 members with its greed, haughtiness, and arrogance.

As you said I’m glad we do things a little more fairly here where Vandy gets the same split as we do. Twas nice to see A&M kind of mess with Texas with the mere notion of going to the SEC. I guess we’re not the only ones who messed with Texas lately as A&M did too.

The other bothersome thing about this is that it essentially makes the path for a big 12 team like OU and or Texas that much easier to get into the bcs title game. Win the red river game and you pretty much have nearly a straight path to an unbeaten season now that a resurgent Nebraska is gone. I say that cause NU has been down a few years but they took Tejas to the wire last year and with an improving offense this year they could have challenged Tejas and OU. Supposedly their D is going to be even better this year and Lord knows their offense can only improve.

I hope that if we get down to several same record teams at the end of the year for the bcs title game that the voters will remember Tejas’s tactics when they do the voting if Tejas is one of 3 or more unbeaten or 1 loss teams vying to get into the title game. Tejas, ya think you were left out in the cold in 08 when OU went to the bcs title game instead of you? You aint seen nuthin yet.

Beast from the East

June 15th, 2010
4:29 pm

cloudy,
I’m sorry but I still disagree. This country will never go backwards. It takes money to make money. Whether you like that principal or not, it doesn’t change the fact that it is the world we live in. If fans CHOOSE to donate their money, then that is their decision. If networks CHOOSE to spend their advertising dollars on college athletics, then that is their decision. I see it as a win for the universities. Who in their right mind wouldn’t accept it?

Tide Rising

June 15th, 2010
4:33 pm

Beast,

I totally agree with you on an automatic bid for the mountain west if the big east gets one. Heck I was saying that even before Utah whupped us because the MWC was something like 5-1 and 6-0 the 2 previous years against the Pac 10. Their bowl performance the last several years has been excellent as well. Utah, BYU, TCU, and even Air force I would put up against anybody from the big east.

cloudy

June 15th, 2010
4:34 pm

Maybe someone with a different set of principles and ethics.

The Rational SEC Fan

June 15th, 2010
4:35 pm

USC,

Just be happy that you didn’t get what SMU got.

Don’t go away angry. Just go away.

Doo dah- Doo dah

June 15th, 2010
4:38 pm

I believe that I read that this was the 6th time that USC has been sanctioned for their football program with the last one in 2001. These sins started in 2004, 3 years llater. I could justify the death penalty for USC.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
4:47 pm

cloudy—-

I certainly have some mixed feelings about the issues you raise, but it’s probably to do damn late to un-ring that bell. I know enough of the history of the University of Florida and its athletic programs to understand the impact, both bad and good, that college sports have had on the university. Back in the 1930s, when Florida couldn’t afford scholarships for its football players, our “pure” amateurs got stomped by the likes of Alabama, Georgia, Georgia Tech, even when we had very good coaches. Florida was one of the have-nots, and it drove the students and fans absolutely insane. The desire to be competitive with the Big Boys ultimately culminated in the Charley Pell scandal in 1984, but Florida rebuilt under Marshall Criser, John Lombardi, Jeremy Foley and Steve Spurrier by doing things the “right way,” or at least the honest way. Florida is a large state university, with better than respectable academics, but our students and alumni crave and expect athletic success, too. Sometimes, I really wish they did a better job of keeping it all in perspective, but I’m relatively happy that they continue to graduate athletes at a high rate and play by the NCAA rules.

Like I said, it’s not an ideal world, but it’s too late to un-ring that bell.

Beast from the East

June 15th, 2010
4:50 pm

cloudy,
Principles and ethics are important, but they sure don’t pay the bills.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

Tide,
Think Tony would be willing to take up that cause? He’s certainly got a louder voice than we do. LOL!

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
4:58 pm

Doo dah- Doo dah—-

Short of being caught conducting human sacrifices on tape, it is highly unlikely that any member NCAA institution will ever receive the so-called “death penalty” again. That having been said, I can tell you how devastating the loss of 20 scholarships in two years was for the Gators in 1985. The gators went from consecutive 9-1-1 records in 1984 and 1985 to 6-5, 6-6, 7-5 and 7-5 in the years that followed. Florida didn’t fully recover from the 20 scholarship losses for five years.

USC lost 30 scholarships over three years. Trust me. The Trojans are going to feel the pain. Better than even money that the BCS and Downtown Athletic Club are going to demand the return of the 2004 BCS and Heisman trophies after USC’s NCAA appeals are exhausted. Old-time Gators still cry when they talk about vacating Florida’s 1984 SEC championship. Some people just have to learn the hard way.

Beast from the East

June 15th, 2010
5:00 pm

AG,
DITTO!
Remember that one from Blazing Saddles? I guess I have to accept the role of Taggart if you’re going to be Hedley Lamarr.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
5:02 pm

Beast—-

As an older Gator who lived though 1984-1985, I urge you not to be so dismissive of cloudy’s perspective. He’s not entirely wrong. Principles and ethics are damn important. It’s up to your generation of Gators to make sure that the program doesn’t go off the rails again like it did in 1984. I would rather lose every football game than suffer through the damage that scandal caused to my alma mater again.

SOOHSO

June 15th, 2010
5:03 pm

206rd. Enough of this.ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
5:03 pm

Just as long as I’m not cast in Alex Karras’ role as “Mongo.”

Beast from the East

June 15th, 2010
5:06 pm

AG,
I remember those days. I still have an old “Give ‘em Hell Pell” t-shirt in the back of the closet to remind me. My point is that I choose to look at the influx of cash that these universities receive as a blessing…..if it’s used WISELY.

MatthewH

June 15th, 2010
5:06 pm

Atlanta Gator- I always appreciate your perspective on this blog as well as others. But, I’m sure that you are in the minority when you say that you would rather lose every game. Most fans have a “win at all costs” mentality and I am sure aht there are plenty of USC fans who think they did nothing wrong. We know the AD thinks that-as JS reported in is countdown, the USC AD chalked it up to Trojan envy. Do you really think fans would be content with all those losses?

Tide Rising

June 15th, 2010
5:09 pm

Beast,

If Tony is truly a college football fan and not just a homer of regional sec and acc football than he as well as other columnists should be asking questions as to why the MWC does not have an automatic bid while the big east does.

I love football from all over the country and while we down here love our defensive oriented, hard hitting football I also like the offensive, wide open oriented game that they typically play in the pac 10. The Mountain West I had really begun to appreciate when they started whipping the Pac 10 on a regular basis several years ago on top of Utah’s 2 convincing bcs bowl wins-one over Bama as we all know and the other a blowout of big east rep Pitt. Heck, I even love MAC football that’s played during the weeknights on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. Have done pretty well on those MAC games.

But I digress. Back to my point. I know Tony’s focus is on us in the sec and acc but to date he has never written an article about the prowess of the MWC and the idea that they should have a bcs bid. He should expand a little and write about national topics of football instead of just regional football or big boy football topics like USC, TEJAS, ETC. That is if he really wants to be “Mr. College football”.

Beast from the East

June 15th, 2010
5:12 pm

Tony,
The Tide has turned on ya! He’s calling you out. Are you just gonna sit there and take that? LOL
I’m sure he doesn’t read 95% of this.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
5:12 pm

MatthewH—-

It’s a choice. If you do the crime, you’ve got to be willing to do the time when you get caught.

I pray that my people never do the “crime” again.

Otto

June 15th, 2010
5:15 pm

Atlanta Gator, Sure you can use it.

MatthewH

June 15th, 2010
5:17 pm

Atlanta Gator-True, although I am sure many people are uncertain as to what exactly is a crime in the eyes of the NCAA. (But that is a topic for another blog). On a positive note, thanks to all for making the last hour of work go by a lot faster than it normally does!

Paul in RDU

June 15th, 2010
5:21 pm

MatthewH – I agree with AG on this one. I would sooner see GT lose every game than do the kinds of things USC have done. I am likely in the nimority on this, but then again I only went to GT for grad school

Tide Rising

June 15th, 2010
5:22 pm

AG,

Speaking of when the gators had to vacate the 1984 sec title I still remember seeing an FSU garnet and gold t-shirt that read SCORE: NCAA 115, FLORIDA ZERO. In reference to the 115 violations the NCAA uncovered. Not making fun of UF of course, particularly in light of our own recent history with the ncaa cops. It was just a hilarious t-shirt is all and FSU got you good on that one.

Regarding USC’s 30 lost scholarships. We were stripped of 21 and that pretty much devastated us in the early 2000s all the way through 2007. Even when we made a run in 2008 to the seccg we still felt the effects of the probation with a senior class of only 9 players.

If we were decimated with the loss of 21 schollies and consequently suffered losing seasons in 2003 and 2006 then I can’t imagine just how bad USC will be hurting with 30 schollies lost. It will be devastating as the NCAA intended it to be and will take 6 years or more to fully recover from as it did with us.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
5:23 pm

Paying your players? Paying the rent on their parents’ home? Buying furniture for the player’s parents? Lying about it after the fact? Doing it too different sports? And then having the unmitigated gall to attribute it to “envy?” What kind of message does that send to students and alumni? Is this the same Pac-10 sports conference that was touting its “academic superiority” to anyone who would listen this past week?

The USC AD needs to read some of the LA Times editorials on topic. And then he needs to resign for the good of his institution.

Beast from the East

June 15th, 2010
5:27 pm

AG,
That guy will never resign. Have you listened to him? He’s as big an egomaniac as I’ve ever seen. The whole envy thing really blew my mind. I laughed at first, and then I just shook my head. The alumni have to be calling for his head. If they’re not, then they deserve what they get with him.

Tide Rising

June 15th, 2010
5:29 pm

Beast,

I like Tony and I hate it when people deride him on this blog. But I really do wish he would read his own blog sometimes and pick up on topics such as what we are talking about with the MWC. Jeff Schultz and Mark Bradley read and respond on their blogs. Why can’t Tony?

MatthewH

June 15th, 2010
5:30 pm

AG-I agree that what USC did was wrong, wrong,wrong. I wasn’t trying to imply anything else in my post. And, I think the USC AD is an idiot.
I just wonder sometimes how much of this actually goes on at any school? There are certainly schools taht are cleaner than others, but my point about the “crime” is sometimes the recruiting people don’t know what is wrong in the NCAA’s eyes. Buy a recruit dinner? That’s OK, right? But how many meals can you buy before it becomes a problem?
Don’t get me wrong; like I said before, I agree with you completly about what USC did. They blatantly broke many rules and then tried to cover it up. And then Pete Carroll acts surprised? C’mon!

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
5:30 pm

TR—-

Not to get picky, but 107 infractions were alleged, 57 were substantiated. Many were trivial; many were not. No excuses, though. Rules are rules. We all agree to abide by them when our university presidents vote on them and when we voluntarily join the NCAA.

Just make sure you keep the Tide out of the NCAA ditch. Hopefully, the University of Florida, its coaches, athletes and alumni have learned that lesson and will do the same.

Beast from the East

June 15th, 2010
5:31 pm

Well, he’s on vacation this week. I don’t recall him responding much in the past unless it’s gotten nasty on here. Can’t really blame him too much in the past 7 years for being a homer. The SEC has been “where it’s at”!

Tide Rising

June 15th, 2010
5:32 pm

And you thought some Alabama boosters displayed arrogance in the wake of NCAA rulings. None of them has anything on Mark Larson.

The Orange County Register describes Larson as “a long-time USC booster from Orange County.” The paper quotes his reaction to the NCAA hitting USC with four years of probation, a two-year bowl ban and the loss of 30 scholarships over three years in football, among other penalties, for violations of amateurism rules and more involving former USC football player Reggie Bush and former USC basketball player O.J. Mayo.

98
0
0
Share “I’m still proud of my school and our athletic programs,” Larson said.

Nothing wrong there. By all means, stay true to your school, just like you would to your girl or guy.

Now here comes the good part.

“There’s a difference between cheating and breaking the rules,” Larson said. “This was breaking the rules. It’s ludicrous to say USC was cheating.”

USC would be advised not to take that attitude into its appeal of the NCAA sanctions.

“Face it,” Larson said, “most people in the Pac-10 would take the nine years we had in exchange for what happened (last week).”

Hard to argue with that sentiment. A lot of boosters at a lot of schools would take seven conference championships and 1 1/2 national titles even if it meant that cheating, or breaking the rules, would later call those titles into question.

But, in this case, Larson’s comments go above and beyond the call of boosterism.

No wonder some UCLA fans refer to USC as the University of Spoiled Children.

Tide Rising

June 15th, 2010
5:38 pm

AG,

Incidentally, a very interesting story broke where a high profile USC freshman former 5 star supposedly complained to Kiffin about 5 different schools contacting him about transferring there which is a violation. Bama and Florida were 2 of the schools the kid accused. Can’t remember the other 3 but I do remember that 4 of the 5 schools including uf and ua have vehemently denied making contact. As for Bama Saban and most of the staff were at a day long charity golf event when the calls allegedly occurred and so Saban said nobody on our staff did so. Makes me wonder if maybe something crazy happened like Kiffin putting the kid up to it to focus attention away from USC or if the kid just made the whole thing up for attention. Just an interesting little side story to the USC penalty and I’m curious to see where this thing is going to go.

amusedbydolts

June 15th, 2010
5:45 pm

How about the TIMAC (Toothless Inbred Moron Athletic Conference). You know who you are…

ryan

June 15th, 2010
6:12 pm

So…Utah hasn’t been contacted by the Pac 10???

Wouldn’t it be just freaking hilarious if the Pac 10 now goes and pulls in Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State and Missouri?!??!?

Oh holy cow!!!

I bet they’d listen if the opportunity arose, and it would leave the Pac Ten just one team shy of the 16 they wanted!!!

jumbeauxtiger

June 15th, 2010
6:23 pm

I’ll believe the amount of money the Big 12-Lite will get when it happens. If it does then good for them. However, as much as they have spinned the numbers and gotten the media to believe that everyone is now so happy, I just don’t buy it. That conference is very fragile.

Jim

June 15th, 2010
6:37 pm

I’m just curious. They keep saying Nebraska has a small TV market, which is true. But I notice many of my fellow NE alums from the 90’s are not living in Nebraska. So when I subscribe to the Big Ten network (here in WA state) how will I be counted? I think a lot of these articles underestimate the passionate Husker fanbase that exists outside of the Nebraska.

Jim

June 15th, 2010
6:50 pm

I love how so many Texas fans go on and on about Nebraska not being a power anymore. Okay, they had a down decade, I get that. But you can’t honestly say Pelini is not moving them back in the right direction? I have UT friends who purchased bowl packages before the Big 12 championship game, which they attended. They told me they were all crappin’ their pants in those final seconds. One close game against UT does not mean Nebraska is back, but come on, stop acting like they didn’t make an impact in the conference. UT/NE was one of the best games in college football last year. I can’t wait for this October in Lincoln. It’ll be fun!

cantondawg

June 15th, 2010
7:32 pm

Tony,

How many times has the Big 12 championship game cost the conference an invite to the NC game. I remember it cost K-State, Nebraska and Oklahoma a chance.

Tide Rising

June 15th, 2010
7:33 pm

Jim,

The state of Nebraska itself may have a small tv market Nebraska’s football program is a marquee name and has been for decades. You may not be as good as you were in the 90s but a lot of people like myself will tune in to watch a program like Nebraska for no other reason than the name. It helps that you’ve risen right back up again under pelini also. And during the bowl season a lot of people will ignore some games such as maybe a fresno vs tulsa something like that but they won’t ignore a nebraska-michigan game even if they were to meet with something like 7-5 records.

jumbeauxtiger

June 15th, 2010
7:46 pm

Agreed. Nebraska has the name brand that will attract many viewers. Big step-up for them joining the Big 10.

They bring alot of fans when they travel and I know they have to be excited about the future.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
8:05 pm

cantondawg—-

Perhaps. But how many times has the SEC championship game propelled the winner into the national championship game (hint:that 1992, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009). How many times has the SEC championship game cost the SEC a crack at the national title game? Well, that’s right . . . never.

Tide Rising

June 15th, 2010
8:23 pm

AG,

I can think of one time that the seccg kept an sec team out of a bcs shot and that was in 2001 when a 1 loss ut team was upset by LSU. It cost UT a shot at the national championship game. But even so that would be one instance where it kept the an sec team out of the title game as opposed to the 10 times that the seccg helped propel the an sec team into the national title game. 10-1. I’ll take those odds if it means the seccg gets you into the national title game.

Delbert D.

June 15th, 2010
8:24 pm

Since Tony wouldn’t say what we all know, I will: If Cal-Berkeley vetoed Baylor, there is no way that BYU gets in. The U of Colorado is a comrade in arms with the Berkeley pinks.

For those who keep bringing up “West Virginia would be a good fit in the ACC,” nuh-uh. West Virginia would not get a single vote if the subject were brought up at an ACC meeting. It wouldn’t even make the agenda.

5IML

June 15th, 2010
8:35 pm

AG,

In addition to Tennessee in 2001, the SECCG, technically, cost BAMA a shot in 2008 and Florida in 2009. But hey, you win some, you lose some.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
8:37 pm

Yeah, but that should have been the Gators, not the Volunteers, in the 2001 SEC game. The real upset was the Vols beating the Gators 34-32 in the regular season game rescheduled to the first weekend in December because of 9/11, but c’est la vie. You can’t win’em all.

A total of five points cost Spurrier a shot at another national title. *sigh*

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
8:39 pm

5IML—-

For what it’s worth, the 2008 and 2009 SEC championship games were the national title games. They were followed by some meaningless bowl games. That’s all.

5IML

June 15th, 2010
8:41 pm

In honor of the SECCG, I’m about to watch the second quarter of the last one before Lakers game starts. Mysteriously, the 2008 SECCG was erased from my DVR.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
8:42 pm

Delbert D.—-

It was brought up during the ACC expansion meetings when Boston College, Miami and Virginia Tech were ultimately asked to join. As I understand it, no formal vote was ever taken on West Virginia, because the assembled ACC university presidents and chancellors couldn’t stop laughing.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
8:44 pm

Yeah, sort of like the 1995 Fiesta Bowl on my VHS.

WestOfAthens

June 15th, 2010
8:44 pm

Yes, Tony, it will rear it’s ugly head, sooner than one may consume.

Maybe the plus side of all of this is, no more rhetoric

Dostoyevskiy

June 15th, 2010
8:49 pm

Why ACC teams, particularly the big 4 plus UVa, will never bolt for another conference: The culture in NC is different from say Ga. or Alabama. Those states do not have as many “professional-job” towns like, Raleigh, Charlotte, Winston Salem, High Point, Durham, Chapel Hill, Fayetteville, Greenville, etc., which support the large NC banking network, industry (furniture, textile, tobacco , technology). Those jobs have required a large number of college-trained personnel in the past. So if you, a UNC graduate, walk out of your Greensboro, NC home to get the paper in the morning, you will see your one neighbor on the right who graduated from NCState, the neighbor on the other side who graduated Duke, the one across the state who went to Wake, another who went to UVa…..you get the point. And to compound this dynamic, you very well will have children, one who went to one of these schools, and the other to another ACC school. In other words, the ACC is not football; it’s not basketball; it’s not sports; it’s family. And that’s one family that ain’t breaking up.

5IML

June 15th, 2010
8:49 pm

…or the 1991 Fiesta Bowl. That single game put Louisville football on the map.

Beast from the East

June 15th, 2010
8:50 pm

AG,
Now why did you have to bring that up? That was the most embarassing loss I can remember.
I’m going to have to bill you for my therapy sessions now. It’s gonna have to start from scratch again.

5IML

June 15th, 2010
8:54 pm

Yeah, I’ve never cared for the Gators but that Neb game actually embarrassed me. That might be the root of the whole SEC pride movement.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
9:00 pm

Fyodor—-

Having some personal knowledge of what you write, I will agree with you . . . up to a point. Duke, UNC, UVa, Wake Forest, and NC State are not going anywhere. Boston College, Clemson, FSU, Georgia Tech, Maryland, Miami and Virginia Tech are not part of the ACC Tobacco Road “family” axis, and are just like conference members everywhere. They have varying degrees of ACC loyalty based on their perceived self-interests. Don’t mislead yourself that none of those seven wouldn’t leave for greener pastures under circumstances they believe to be in their own best interests. Not saying it will happen, but let’s honestly acknowledge that it plausibly could.

Atlanta Gator 3IML

June 15th, 2010
9:03 pm

5IML—-

You were embarrassed?? How the hell do you think we felt? Ouch.

In fairness, those were some mighty fine Husker teams from 1994 to 1997.

5IML

June 15th, 2010
9:06 pm

Was the 2009 Sugar Bowl embarrassing to you? Just curious.

Beast from the East

June 15th, 2010
9:08 pm

Yes they were. That 95 Nebraska team has to be one of the best I’ve ever seen.

Atlanta Gator 3IML

June 15th, 2010
9:19 pm

5IML—-

I was surprised and not happy to see Bama lose to Utah, but in terms of ugly, humiliating and embarrassing, no, the 2009 Sugar Bowl does not even begin to compare to the 1996 Fiasco Bowl. The Gators had their collective head crushed by the Huskers. Your 1991 Fiesta Bowl was much more comparable in terms of the humiliation factor.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
9:23 pm

Beast—-

Yeah, and the Huskers probably would have been back in 1996, but for the fact that most of their team came down with the flu the week before the Big XII title game and they managed to get upset by a lesser Longhorns team. That just confirmed Tom Osborne’s disenchantment with the whole idea of the Big XII title game.

5IML

June 15th, 2010
9:26 pm

The 1991 Fiesta Bowl was during my freshman year at BAMA. A few of my friends were on the team and said they were out drinking and partying into the wee hours of the morning before the game. They (coaches and players) didn’t take Louisville seriously, and we (coaches, players, administrators, students, and fans) got embarrassed.

Dostoyevskiy

June 15th, 2010
9:27 pm

Atlanta Gator, I agree, I shouldn’t take for granite that those teams you mentioned would not do what would be in their best interests. But I happen to believe that it woud be in their overall best interests (particularly because their perceived academic status) to remain in the ACC. I believe Clemson University would not leave the ACC. They too, are a part of the family from the very beginning. Md enjoys a slightly differenrent cultural orientation, and the “family” feeling may not be there, but their long history and their desire to remain among basketball’s elite, would, in my opinion, also bind them to the ACC forever.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
9:41 pm

Fyodor—-

I know a lot of Clemson alumni here in Atlanta, and they don’t seem to view the ACC as much more than a necessary evil and seem to find the academic, ahem, pretensions of the Tobacco Road schools to be, well, a little pretentious. On the other side, I can tell you that there was no family love for Clemson to be felt during my time as an undergraduate in Charlottesville, nor when I lived in Alexandria or Asheville. Sure, that’s anecdotal and not exactly a scientific survey . . . . I might also add that UVa alumni generally find Duke folks to be the most obnoxious on the planet, including, I might add, the entire SEC. The vanity of close differences, I suppose.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
9:46 pm

Good word play, BTW—-”take for granite.” Probably, only works in writing because most people wouldn’t catch it when spoken.

sec

June 15th, 2010
10:04 pm

dost,

Get a grip. The acc can keep their family. no one here in the sec really cares to have them in our family.

sec

June 15th, 2010
10:09 pm

Greenville, Winston-Salem, fayetteville, NC. do these towns have more professionals and NASA engineers than say an sec city like Huntsville, Al aka space city, USA. I think not. Have they sent more astronauts into space than Auburn? No and a resounding no at that.

Doo dah- Doo dah

June 15th, 2010
10:16 pm

An SEC city like Huntsville Al?????? You’re breaking up pal . I think the Triangle will hold it’s own with lots of progressive job hubs. Not too many SEC cities that are big on the professional screens.

Pete

June 15th, 2010
10:20 pm

Some contrarian views on conference expansion, etc.
1. REDUCE rather than ENLARGE conferences. Any conference that is too big for round robin play (everyone plays everyone) is too big. Determine the conference champ by regular season play, even if it’s a tie. Send Vandy to the Big 10 and Arkansas to the Big 12 when another vacancy occurs.
2. Having separate divisions within conferences necessarily results in unbalanced schedules; championship games are (a) sometimes rematches of regular season games, (b) can become trap games, or (c) complete mismatches. Their existence is actually another strike against working out a viable playoff system someday.
3. The appeal of College football is different, and should be, from pro ball. Rivalries are based on history, in state rivalry or natural border wars. As somebody once said, “nobody ever went to the University of the Rams”.
4. There’s already plenty of money in football (figure 85,000 X $75 per ticket and existing TV income). Please don’t make the mistake of thinking that this Golden Goose can’t be killed (or badly winged) by greed.

sec

June 15th, 2010
10:27 pm

Doo dah,

Huntsville has more engineers per capita for cities of 100k or more than any other city in the US. It is tied to NASA the same way that disney world is tied to Orlando. Only a fool like you wouldn’t know that. WDE.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
10:29 pm

Pete—-

I generally agree, but nobody gets to exile Vanderbilt to the Big Ten (Dozen). As a traditionalist, you must recognize and appreciate that Vandy’s football history is longer and richer than every SEC school not named Alabama. (Look it up, if you don’t believe me.) Granted, Vandy’s been a little down on their luck for the last four to seven decades, but the history is there.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
10:33 pm

As for SEC professional cities, shall I dare state the obvious—-Atlanta? I don’t think there is any ACC city that compares. It’s the crossroads of the South, and that includes almost every ACC and SEC school, and is usually the home of the largest clusters of ACC and SEC alumni outside the home states of their respective alma maters. But, hey, little Charlotte’s kind neat, too.

= )

Doo dah- Doo dah

June 15th, 2010
10:34 pm

Huntsville is not an SEC city.

Doo dah- Doo dah

June 15th, 2010
10:36 pm

Atlanta is a mixed bag but hardly an SEC city since there is no SEC school here.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
10:47 pm

Doo dah- Doo dah—-

Do you live here? Good God, man. There is not a more SEC city on the planet. It’s a college football town, not a basketball town. Pro sports are an afterthought. Georgia Tech is here, but it’s a curiosity. Get out a drive around on a Saturday. You can find more Gators banners than Tech banners, and with 12,500 alumni here, Florida is only the third largest alumni group here after Georgia and Auburn. This is the biggest career destination outside of their home states for every SEC school other than Arkansas. This the SEC core, the mecca of Southern football, and every December pilgrimages are made, offerings are given, and honor is paid.

Not an SEC city? Don’t be silly.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
10:48 pm

“Camptown Races,” what?

Delbert D.

June 15th, 2010
10:58 pm

Pete – Good thinking, but for economy of scale, there needs to be more teams than 8 as a single conference. I grew up in the days when 2 or 3 games were televised on Saturday, and you had to choose between ones that played at the same time. Too many separate conferences for individual media rights negotiation, and the costs to the networks would decrease the money available to the schools. Now, for even better economy of scale, if 4 conferences go to 16, that’s a national playoff of 64 schools. One division of a particular conference may dominate for a period, but at least there is an Elite Eight of division winners. The teams that are eliminated in regular season play, well, maybe next year. The 4 conference champions are the Final 4.

The other 50-plus schools? They get a chance for bowls, along with the non-division winners in the major conferences. This is the only BCS-busting scenario I see.

Delbert D.

June 15th, 2010
11:00 pm

Atlanta Gator – Right on with the SEC destination city. I just jumped in for a quick read, and I’ve got to go.

Paul in RDU

June 15th, 2010
11:07 pm

AG – The UVA alumni find the Duke folks the most obnoxious on the planet? You never met anyone from Chapel Hill or is it that you not like rich kids from NJ and NY??? As an outsider here in the Triangle, I prefer the NCSU fans, with WF next and Duke barely ahead of the whine and cheese crowd.

Tide Rising

June 15th, 2010
11:14 pm

Just checking back. Huntsville and Atlanta are not SEC cities? Good Lord what is this guy talking about?

Don’t know a lot about Huntsville except that it is a high technology and engineering city. It does have a lot to do with the space program and from what I know everyone I met from there is generally a Bama, AU, or UT fan.

I have a friend from high school who was a engineering grad from AU. He works at Teledyne Brown in Huntsville and I remember catching up with him years ago at Christmas. He was in charge of plotting the orbital course of the space shuttle. Pretty cool stuff and from the way he talked dang most of the city was engineers and a lot of the tech companies were somehow affiliated with the space program. Did not know that they did so much for the space program from Huntsville but apparently they do and I know this man is not a BSer.

Atlanta not an sec city and not a technology center? Please. Atlanta has lost an obscene amount of tech and software jobs in particular over the last couple years.

Paul in RDU

June 15th, 2010
11:19 pm

Speaking of Clemson going to the SEC (and Clemson is a fine school). If CU did that it would raise the median academic rankings of both the SEC and the ACC at the same time – you can look it up.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
11:23 pm

TR—-

One of my Florida fraternity brothers was an aerospace engineering major, and one of the two or three smartest people I’ve ever met. He’s a rocket scientist, literally. Got his Ph.D., and now he’s a senior division head in NASA’s manned spaceflight program. Those Gator engineers get around.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
11:26 pm

Paul in RDU—-

Okay, wise guy, that’s an old joke. Please specify, median or average?

In any event, we could always use another land-grant school in the SEC. They just need to tone down that whole Pitchfork Ben Tillman thing.

Tide Rising

June 15th, 2010
11:28 pm

Paul in RDU,

Had a good friend that went to Duke. One of the most laid back and coolest people I know. He didn’t like it there though. I got the impression he didn’t like the people at Duke. I also dated a girl from Duke during college over the summer. Very obnoxious about Duke basketball and this was way back before they even won a national title. Hard to believe but they’re worse than Bama fans are regarding football. I enjoyed booting that girl to the curb.

Lately I had a girlfriend from Wake and got to know several of her Wake friends. I like the Wake people. Good folks. Her girlfriend also a Wake grad dated Chuck Oliver so I met Chuck a couple times when he went out with us. He’s a nice enough guy in person but the funny thing about his girlfriend is that she was just as much a duke bball fan as a Wake fan. Matter of fact her family had some kind of connection to Duke bball and so the team manager or Coach K’s daughter(can’t remember which) got her a real Duke bball warmup suit the kind that only the players get. You can’t buy them period so that was pretty cool. So when Dost talks about them kind of being one big family up there in North Carolina even with their little family squabblings I think I know what he’s talking about from what I’ve seen. They certainly do seem like one big family culturally and as far as academics go anyway.

Tide Rising

June 15th, 2010
11:31 pm

AG,

Same thing with my AU bud. He also is literally a rocket scientist. I told him that must be a great pickup line if he’s at a bar but he told me it doesn’t count as much in Huntsville cause everyone else is also a scientist or engineer.

Paul in RDU

June 15th, 2010
11:34 pm

AG – Please re-read my post – I specified median

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
11:34 pm

When I first moved to Atlanta, the way I originally heard that old saw was that so-and-so of suspect intelligence moved from Georgia to Alabama and the average IQ of both states rose.

Tide Rising

June 15th, 2010
11:35 pm

AG,

We won’t exchange names of these 2 fellas but its a small world and I would not be in the least surprised if they knew each other, knew of each other, or had worked together in some capacity at NASA. Been years since I saw my friend and I don’t know if he earned his phd and all that but a mutual friend that he see much more frequently told me that he is the #2 guy at NASA now. I doubt if he was talking about NASA period though. I think he was just talking about the NASA dept. that he worked at or the division of Teledyne brown that works with NASA. In any event that’s some pretty cool stuff.

Tide Rising

June 15th, 2010
11:39 pm

AG,

“When I first moved to Atlanta, the way I originally heard that old saw was that so-and-so of suspect intelligence moved from Georgia to Alabama and the average IQ of both states rose.”

And to think I thought I had heard all the jokes about Alabama from Georgia folks.

Paul in RDU

June 15th, 2010
11:40 pm

TR – The son of some close friends of mine is a Duke alum (undergrad and PhD – I went to his dissertation defense a month or so ago). He’s a great guy as are his folks, but the general Duke student b’ball fan makes the ALA f’ball fans look modest. Funny thing about them is they’ll camp out for days for a Duke game in Cameron, but at Wallace Wade you can get tickets on the 50, 10 rows back below face (at least I did)

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
11:42 pm

Don’t feel bad, you should hear the effing jorts jokes I have to put up with. I mean, what the hell is a jort anyway?

Paul in RDU

June 15th, 2010
11:43 pm

TR – I agree with you on the Wake fans – they are good folks.
BTW – There are still a couple of old restaurants in Wake Forest painted in the school colors even though the school moved to W-S over 50 years ago for the RJR money.

Tide Rising

June 15th, 2010
11:48 pm

Paul,

Yes. I would maybe agree that they can be even more rabid about their bball then we are about football. Just not on as big a scale though. They have a few thousand crazies who will camp out for bball tickets but we’ll have near 100k show up for a meaningless spring scrimmage. If we had to camp out for tickets to football I’m certain we’ld have a tent city around Tuscaloosa as well.

Wallace Wade? Hope Duke people realize what a fine man this guy was.

Tide Rising

June 15th, 2010
11:52 pm

paul,

My Wake girlfriend finally explained what the Steely Dan song “deacon blues” was all about. Believe or not I never made the connection that they(Steely Dan) were Wake students in their earlier days and I never got the connection about them lamenting the deacons 20 something game losing streak in the early 70s. Hence the song about deacon blues losing and wanting to be like the winners in the world-they call Alabama the crimson tide.

Tide Rising

June 15th, 2010
11:54 pm

AG,

If it makes you feel better I’ve never heard a bama or even an AU fan reference the term jorts when referring to Florida fans. I think that’s just a Georgia thing.

Paul in RDU

June 15th, 2010
11:55 pm

TR – If you have the opportunity this year, you should come up to Duke for the ALA game. Although small by SEC standards, the stadium is a great place to view a game with not a bad seat in the house – heck it even held a Rose Bowl. Cameron is right next to Wallace Wade and the Duke Chapel and Gardens are not far away. It’s a beautiful campus and the Duke fans are hospitable for football (not so much for b’ball).

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
11:57 pm

Paul in RDU—-

Were you a liberal arts major?

Clemson is the ninth-ranked school of 12 in the ACC. Georgia Tech is the sixth-ranked school at 35th among all national universities. Hypothetically, if Clemson were to move to another, more football-oriented Southern athletic conference, that would leave eleven schools in the ACC, with Georgia Tech as the sixth school of eleven. It would appear that the median ranking (i.e. the one defining the 50th percentile), as defined by the sixth school of 11 or 12, would not change appreciably by Clemson’s departure.

Now, if you really meant say mean, rather than median, Clemson’s hypothetical departure might have some more meaningful mathematical movement.

(?)

Tide Rising

June 16th, 2010
12:03 am

Paul,

That’s a good suggestion and now that I think about it I will probably do it. Don’t know why but the thought of heading up there just never occurred to me. I was planning on going up to Penn State next year. I went there in the 87 to see Bama play. Penn state is a great experience.

I’ve only been to the research triangle area a couple times and not long enough to really see anything. I am kind of surprised I haven’t been there more since I’ve had several girlfriends who went to college up there- Wake, Duke, Elon, Washington and Lee, and a couple girls I worked with from UVA and some guys I knew from UNC. That’s a good idea and I think I’m going to go ahead and do it. May get my ex Wake girlfriend to go since we are still good friends.Never did see the chapel at Duke.

I could stop by and pay homage to wallace wade as I’ve no doubt some of us bama fans would like to do.

Tide Rising

June 16th, 2010
12:05 am

AG and Paul,

good blogging with you guys. I’m out till manana.

Paul in RDU

June 16th, 2010
12:06 am

AG – I am not a liberal arts major, but you appear to be one. The median is the one in the middle – 50% above and 50% below. (BTW – this applies if you have an even or an odd number of schools). SInce Clemson is below the median in the ACC, by leaving they will raise the median in the ACC. Since their ranking is higher than the median in the SEC, by joining the SEC they will raise the median.

Paul in RDU

June 16th, 2010
12:07 am

Dang TR – WF, Elon, Duke and W&L – Looks like you like rich girls from private schools :-)

Paul in RDU

June 16th, 2010
12:13 am

Au revoir mes enfants – A demain

Atlanta Gator

June 16th, 2010
12:18 am

First bachelor’s was English and government (UVa); second bachelor’s was economics with a rather heavy dose of math and statistics (UF). That was complemented by a master’s in economics, followed by two professional degrees.

The point being that Georgia Tech, as the sixth school, defines the median in either an 11 or 12-team ACC, and thus the median will not change with the departure of a single below-the-median data point. The mean, as you know, is just the average, and will be altered by the addition or subtraction of any data point that does not exactly equal the pre-existing mean.

Space Mt

June 16th, 2010
12:23 am

I could almost see conferences contracting b/c the title games for the Big 12 and the ACC aren’t the big money makers they wished they would be. A title game really hurts a conference in my opinion. For example, say you have two one loss teams meet in a title game. One has to lose so one goes on to a BCS bowl and the other would most certainly fall to a lesser bowl. But if they both finish the season as co-champs then both could go to a BCS bowl. And if one team goes it has to split the money with 11 other schools!! Big Ten has done on a few occassions so I don’t know why they choose to get to 12 for a title game. I think the conferences should put pressure the NCAA to allow a title game for 10 members if anything. Twelve teams is almost too big for a conference and it doesn’t allow for a potential home and away for basketball either. But I can deal with 12 while anything bigger may virtually break up rivalries, cause a loss of interest and increases in travelling expenses due to long road trips, and loss of class time for players!!!

Paul in RDU

June 16th, 2010
12:34 am

AG – You need to brush up on your statistics – in a 12 team league the median is in between school #6 and school #7. In an 11 team league, the median is school #6. It does change when Clemson leaves.
BTW – Bachelors in Natural Sciences (Cambridge) PhD Chem (GT).

SEC # 2

June 16th, 2010
12:50 am

Don’t ever confuse Mr. Football with Mr. SEC Football.

Greensboro, Georgia

June 16th, 2010
3:08 am

——————————————–
……NESBITT for HEISMAN……
——————————————–

Best of Atlanta

June 16th, 2010
5:43 am

QB Joshua Nisbitt led the Jackets to the ACC Championship and had 28 touchdowns.

Best of Atlanta

June 16th, 2010
5:44 am

buzz

June 16th, 2010
6:41 am

I think what Titus misses is the fact that Duke and UNC and very relevant between November and April, something which the SEC is extremely lacking.

Dave

June 16th, 2010
6:52 am

Tony I think there are plenty of teams that absolutely love bing the largest bass in a small pond. Notre dame and Texas both have plenty of money and we found out ego is just as important to them as money is. There are plenty of teams that don’t want the competition we already have in the SEC, it is just too brutal for them and gives them little in return. The SEC got lucky in that it stayed like it is now a tough conference with a lot of interaction. I read where the PAC 16 would have possibly had 16 teams with no conference championship game and demanding two BCS automatic berths.for two eight team divisions. Why have this type conference at all if you have so little interaction between two divisions. At least the BIG 12 is the Big 10 and these teams will play each other.

Dostoyevskiy

June 16th, 2010
9:52 am

I’ll bet those engineers in Huntsville didn’t get their degrees at Mississippi State or any of the other engineering schools in the SEC. If they did, then that explains the horrors of the space program.

Dostoyevskiy

June 16th, 2010
9:54 am

What some people take for “granted”, I take for “granite”.

Delbert D.

June 16th, 2010
10:51 am

Georgia Tech’s starting center (1st team All-ACC) is an aerospace engineering major. A scientist is different from an engineer, though. Scientists are typically theoretical, applied or experimental in their specializations. Some switch back and forth over a career. Engineers design the reproducible application of experimental work.

Death To The MWC

June 16th, 2010
1:41 pm

The Big 12 still needs to replace Nebraska and Colorado. The reason is to squash the threat of the MWC gaining BCS status. Utah going to the Pac-12 creates the perfect opening. All the Big 12 has to do is add BYU and Colorado State to the North, which adds the Salt Lake City market to offset the loss of Omaha, and destroy the MWC threat for good.

The Big East also needs to be proactive by adding two more all-sports schools, expanding to 10 in football and 18 in basketball. I would go with Central Florida to shore up their southern flank alongside South Florida, and then throw all kinds of money at Boston College to take them off the ACC’s hands, but then just add Temple if that hail mary falls short.

OB-1

June 16th, 2010
2:32 pm

Death To The MWC; I’m sure the ACC would trade BC for say Pitt or U Conn.