What we know, don’t know, about expansion

After a weekend filled with travel, some fact, and whole bunch of speculation, here is where I think we are this Monday morning on the subject of conference expansion:

WHAT WE KNOW

1. Colorado (Pac-10) and Nebraska (Big Ten) have already left the Big 12. There is an offer on the table for Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State to move West and form the Pac-16. That would leave the Big 12 with five schools (Kansas, Kansas State, Missouori, Iowa State, Baylor) looking for new homes or trying to rebuild its league.

2. Texas A&M, showing a streak of independence, may not want to follow Big Brother Texas to the Pac-16. The Aggies want the Longhorns to know that they have options too: That’s why there is this flirtation with the SEC.  Texas A&M has played LSU and Arkansas over the years and culturally, some people in College Station feel it would be a better fit than playing on the Left Coast.

3. Various media reports had SEC commissioner Mike Slive in College Station, Texas, over the weekend. The SEC would not confirm this and commissioner Slive did not return a call seeking confirmation. But I do know this: Texas A&M athletic director Bill Byrne was not in College Station this weekend. He was at a family gathering in Idaho.

4. Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe has huddled with his television partners and come up with a plan to hold the 10 remaining members of his conference together. It would guarantee a lot more television revenue with a new deal and Texas would get to start its own network, something it may not be able to do in the Pac-16. It makes sense.  ESPN is just got out of one bidding war with FOX for the ACC television package. Would the Worldwide Leader want to get into another one for the newly-created Pac-16? It is in ESPN’s interest to do what’s necessary to hold the rest of the Big 12 together. And if that means putting a bunch of extra money on the table, so be it.  Beebe, I have it on pretty good authority, will not be at this week’s meetings of the conference commissioners out in California. He will be busy trying to save his conference. 

5. We should get a lot of clarity this week: The Texas and Texas Tech board of regents meet on Tuesday to discuss this. Oklahoma’s board of regents meets Wednesday. But, as SI.com’s Andy Staples reports, the Higher Education Committee of the Texas State House will hold hearings on Wednesday. Under the proposal on the table, the Pac-16 would invite all of the Texas schools in the Big 12 but Baylor.  Remember that Texas Governor Ann Richards pulled out her guns to get Baylor (her alma mater) into the Big 12 back in the early 90s. Their ain’t no mix like Texas politics and football. Could Baylor get shoe-horned into the Pac-16 if that is the only way to get the deal done?

FIVE THINGS WHAT WE DON’T KNOW

1. Would the SEC take Texas A&M without Oklahoma? Normally you want a traveling partner when you seek to change conference affiliation. Could Slive make the case to Oklahoma that it doesn’t need  to follow Texas? Not sure about that. OU athletics director Joe Castiglione has made it pretty clear that his school is linked with Texas.

2. If Texas A&M goes to the SEC, would that throw a lifeline to Kansas to the Pac-16?  The Jayhawks and their proud basketball tradition have been treated like the ugly cousin nobody talks to at the family reunion. But if Texas A&M goes to the SEC, the idea of a yearly basketball game (or two) between Kansas and UCLA might be appealing. But what if the Texas politicians strong-arm Baylor into the Pac-10 instead? That would be a bitter pill for Kansas to swallow.

3. If the Texas exodus to the Pac-10 does not happen, does that throw a lifeline to Utah to be the 12th member? Don’t get me wrong, but I don’t see where the Pac-10 has really upgraded (at least from a TV numbers standpoint) if Colorado and Utah are the only teams that come on board.

4. What will Texas do? Despite all the reports that Texas to the Pac-10 is a done deal, school officials insisted over the weekend that all options are still on the table. It can stay in a Big 12 that has only 10 teams but a whole lot of new money (which it will get a larger chunk of) or it can go West. But understand this. All of these schools that don’t want to be seen as following Texas are basically going to have to get over it. “Texas is driving this bus,” a former coach in that part of the world told me. “Folks are going to have to get used to that.”

5. Will the Big Ten stop at 12? If you’re an SEC fan, this is the conference you should be watching. Even if there is a Pac-16 with Texas and Oklahoma in it, I don’t think the SEC will feel compelled to expand. And if the SEC gets Texas A&M and adds another school (insert your favorite team here) then it could stop at 14. That puts the SEC into the Texas market and makes their television package more valuable. That would be seen as a win for the SEC.

But if the Big Ten exercises the nuclear option and goes to 16, the SEC will have some intresting decisions to make. Under that scenario I once thought the SEC would look to the ACC. I no longer feel strongly that will be the case.

It’s going to be an interesting week folks. Stay tuned.

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554 comments Add your comment

George Gipp

June 14th, 2010
8:53 am

Are the Irish remaining independent?

TonyBFan

June 14th, 2010
8:55 am

It’s all about the money, so Memphis MUST be a player in any SEC plans. No mention of that Tony. Isn’t 10 mil a year a game changer?

Mikey in the SAV

June 14th, 2010
8:58 am

As always, just follow the money.

Joe Hachem

June 14th, 2010
9:02 am

Pass Duh Sugah!!

GeezusDawg

June 14th, 2010
9:03 am

TB, must be in a rush this AM – type-o’s.

Paul in RDU

June 14th, 2010
9:03 am

Tony – Looks like you are alluding to who really drives the changes in Div 1 CFB – the folks in Bristol, CT and their $$$. Before raiding the ACC, Slive would need to talk to the people at the World Wide Leader – they have a contract with the ACC as well as with the SEC.

TDave

June 14th, 2010
9:03 am

Tony, Memphis doesn’t bring anything new to the table for the SEC to consider sending them an invitation.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
9:05 am

See Texags.com’s Aggie football forum for insightful and entertaining discussion about all of the A&M issues. It’s been heartwarming to see that the Aggies may finally be ready, willing, able, and committed to breaking away from the Horns. I think that A&M would be a great “get” for the SEC.

As to who the other “get” should be, it appears from several sites that Slive has been chatting with Oklahoma, and, believe it or not, UNC. Apparently, Slive’s ideal grouping if there’s an SEC16 to come out of this, is for UNC and Duke to join along with A&M and someone else (not likely Texas because the Horns diss the SEC), perhaps from among Oklahoma, Virginia Tech, Clemson, and FSU. It would be hard to rule out Missouri, Maryland, and Cincinnati from that list of possible 16th teams, because each would bring more TV eyeballs, and hence more $$$ to the pot. That seems to be why Clemson would not be a logical candidate. I take it that GT and FSU have burned SEC bridges and for those and no new “footprint” reasons would not be logical candidates — not to mention that UGa and UF wouldn’t want them. Miami would be a horrible choice, IMHO.

I hope the SEC stops at 14 teams, so that there’s just one additional division opponent, and one less cupcake-available open date on each team’s schedule. Some of the SEC teams schedule too many cupcakes as it is…..

Grey Ghost

June 14th, 2010
9:06 am

Since the Texas President, Dr. Powell is a University of California man, he has major interest and allegiance to the Pac-10. I wonder if the SEC and Commissioner Slive might bypass Texas and take A&M, Oklahoma, OSU, and Texas Tech, leaving Texas on an island with Colorado on the Far Left Coast?? Texas is the only school who really fits in with the Pacific coast, I can’t see the other schools getting all excited going to LA, Berkely, Eugene, Palo Alto, and Seattle versus going to Baton Rouge, Fayetteville, Starkeville, Oxford, and Tuscaloosa which would be more their style. Texas A&M and Oklahoma would also benefit from a recruiting standpoint being in the SEC rather than the PAC 10.

But as you said maybe the Big 12 will work out their TV revenue deal to obtain bigger numbers.

CW

June 14th, 2010
9:08 am

One school that might make an interesting option for the SEC is Louisville. Although their football program is still a bit down right now, they have proven in the past that they can draw big crowds. They are an obvious rival for Kentucky and provide even more of a footprint into Big 10 territory than KY already provides.

Although there has been wide speculation about the SEC raiding the ACC, the only school I see interested in even exploring another conference would be Florida State. The North Carolina schools, Maryland, Ga Tech, UVA – these schools all value football, but really want to maintain some kind of balance with basketball, baseball and other non-revenue sports. After years of trying to get back to the top of the heap in the ACC in football, Clemson isn’t about to join a league where they have to play the likes of Florida, LSU, Alabama, Auburn etc. on a regular basis.

CW

June 14th, 2010
9:13 am

fb fan, do you really think Duke is a good fit for the SEC? Why would Slive & Co. want a weaker football program than Vandy to join the SEC? Duke and UNC aren’t going to leave the ACC. Historically, it is THEIR conference. Neither of these schools are going to a league where basketball is seen as an afterthought.

Grey Ghost

June 14th, 2010
9:13 am

I don’t know why some of you all keep trying to include ACC teams in the expansion discussion. It’s not going to happen. Virginia Tech and UNC cannot leave because of strong state politics and ties. Plus as one viewer appropriately said, ESPN does not want one of their deals messed with.

sam

June 14th, 2010
9:14 am

It seems everyone, even the fans for some reason, are concerned with league t.v. markets. I can understand the fans wanting a strong league but at the end of the day, I’m a Georgia fan, not a SEC fan. I don’t know why fans and alumni are caught up in this fantasy football type of draft of college teams. The SEC is great the way it is. I couldn’t care less about adding t.v. markets, I care about Georgia keeping it’s traditions, winning the SEC and having a shot at the BCS title year in and year out.

ryan

June 14th, 2010
9:15 am

If the Big 12 stays together, which I think is most likely, you know that Nebraska and Colorado are going to be freaking out.

That $10 million penalty for leaving the conference won’t be fun.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
9:18 am

CW – I only know that I have seen reports that Slive has already approached UNC, who reportedly has listened and not said no, and that Duke is reported to be the team that Slive wants to invite with UNC if this all ends up with an SEC16. If you look at those two schools, their TV eyeballs not just in NC but throughout the country, not to mention their geographical locations and recruiting backyards, you can see why Slive could very well have determined that they are the best possible fits for the SEC. Neither’s addition would reasonably tick off any current SEC member, which can’t be said for Louisville (no new eyeballs), FSU (UF would not like), Miami (ditto), or Clemson (UGa and USC would not like).

ATL Gator

June 14th, 2010
9:19 am

The only way expansion works is with new TV markets. New TV markets = new revenue. So, beyond Tex A&M (which brings the SEC into the DFW and HOU markets – both top 10), it has to be an untapped territory. Memphis (SEC already there – Ole Miss and ARK), FSU/UM (UF routinely beats FSU and UM games ratings wise already in the 3 large FL TV markets) Clem (none of the TV markets in SC are Top 30 – the only that would be a possibility would be Charlotte (#26 TV market).

Logically then, the options appear to be Mizzou (delivers the St Louis market – #21)or the NC schools (RDU is the #29 market.)

P-Man

June 14th, 2010
9:19 am

So nice to see a true discussion going on instead of the usual “Georgia Sux/Tech Sux/Bama Sux/etc” garbage we usually see.

I think all this is Texas just trying to get the Big 12 to give it more money and allow it to make it’s own TV deal. I don’t care much for Texas’ “A&M better come with us or we won’t play them anymore” attitude.

Interesting how the Big 12 may have 10 teams and the Big 10 have 12!

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
9:20 am

I should have added the no-brainer that adding UNC and Duke would, not irrelevantly, instantly make the SEC one of if not the best basketball conferences (especially if the Big East implodes, as seems increasingly likely).

5IML

June 14th, 2010
9:20 am

CW,

Clemson would also be a good fit in the SEC. I’m not sure that they’d actually add value to the league, but they are an SEC-type school.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
9:21 am

P-Man,

Someone pointed out last week that for about 24 hours (after CU accepted the Pac10 bid and before Nebraska accepted the Big10 bid), the Pac10, Big12, and Big10 each had 11 teams, and that after NU joined the Big10, the Big10 had 12 teams and the Big12 had 10 teams. Crazy week in sports!

Paul in RDU

June 14th, 2010
9:23 am

There is no way that UNC and Duke will go to the SEC. Aside from the academic snobbery of both schools and their alumni bases there are other political issues. UNC and Duke have highly ranked programs and are bitter rivals in a whole bunch of non-revenue sports so you have to offer both. UNC isn’t going anywhere without NC State – the folks in the State House in Raleigh will be receiving phone calls from Jim Goodnight if UNC looks to leave NCSU.

BIRDDAWGONE

June 14th, 2010
9:24 am

Tony, do you think that there is a chance, when all thing are said and done the the Big (what ever number) up north will end-up the third strongest football conference (while the richest)?

BIRDDAWGONE

June 14th, 2010
9:24 am

ryan

June 14th, 2010
9:28 am

TV markets only matter to the Big Ten, because they have their own cable network and need to increase distribution. Because in cable, the more distribution you have, the more license fees you receive from cable operators.

For everyone else, it’s about the matchups.

Take Rutgers for example. That would get the Big Ten distribution into the nation’s largest market. More households = more license fees from cable operators.

But if say, the SEC were to pick up Rutgers or Houston for the TV markets, nobody would care, because ESPN is already nationally distributed, and they care more about the advertising revenue.

Nobody would watch South Carolina vs. Houston just because Houston is in the top ten TV markets. Nobody gives a crap. They just want to see a good game.

And nobody would watch Maryland vs. Rutgers, just because DC and NJ/NY are large TV markets.

And the only reason the SEC needs to expand is if a 16 team conference is successful in getting two automatic qualifying bids, because that is gauranteed revenue. At that point, you’ve got to get your hand in the pot, too.

That’s it. That’s all that matters.

XpatHeel

June 14th, 2010
9:29 am

Tony, About time you finally realized the ACC doesn’t need or want to be hooked up w/ the $EC. From a pure fans’ perspective, there could be some interesting matchups and divisional groupings if there were some ACC teams added into your group. And there could be added media money if you got into NC and Md. But, as I’ve said all along, it aint happenin’.

Tony Barnhart

June 14th, 2010
9:29 am

There is money, and then there is money with strings attached. I cannot envision a scenario where Memphis “buys” its way in the SEC. That’s why I didn’t mention it. Now Memphis could buy their way into the Big East, assuming that there is a Big East left when the music stops.

TB

5IML

June 14th, 2010
9:30 am

If the Big East survives the carnage, they need to take a serious look at Memphis.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
9:31 am

sam -

I like the SEC the way it is, too, but Slive’s job is to look out for the long-term future of the SEC, so he has to be pro-active in taking A&M now, when the Aggies are available, and another team to get the SEC to 14. If he thinks this is all going to end up with four or five 16 team superconferences, then he has to have his 15th and 16th team addition chart of desirables, too.

The whole thing is for the SEC not to be left at 12 when everyone else is at 16, having taken the best possible SEC expansion candidates, and leaving the SEC with leftovers.

Why? Because of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$, simple as that. And … the leverage that comes with that money. See the many discussions of how the Pac16 pipe dream is NOT to have a playoff, but automatic BCS bids for each of its two divisions. The SEC would not want that kind of “in” to be granted to the Pac16, unless, of course, the SEC could get the same, but that would likely require the SEC to also have 16 teams…..

As Tony writes, the SEC can’t afford to let the Big10, in particular, end up with a much, much larger share of the money than the SEC.

And remember another thing, this might all be a process to get to where there is no BCS, but rather an 8 or 10 team tournament, with two teams “qualifying” from each of the four or five 16-team superconferences. In that scenario, the NCAA itself may be bypassed altogether for football, which would please the football superpower schools immensely….

Anyway, stay tuned, but not with your head in the sand. Slive appears to be looking out for the SEC, if reports of his weekend travels to College Station and perhaps Norman are correct.

TommyJack

June 14th, 2010
9:31 am

I could see Texas in the Pac10. If you’ve ever lived in Texas, you know that Austin is Berkley East.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
9:33 am

TONY – have you heard anything about the Slive overtures/intros/discussions/etc. concerning UNC and Duke?

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
9:36 am

CW – you ask about Duke coming with UNC. If that’s the deal Slive needs to make to get UNC in an SEC16 scenario, then he’d make it, I think, and the SEC would thank him for doing so.

Speaking as a fan of UGa, it’d be great to have Duke on the schedule every year, so if an SEC16 went to 4-team pods within its two divisions, then I’d want UGa to have Duke in its pod, wouldn’t you???

sam

June 14th, 2010
9:41 am

“The love of money is the root of all evil” Chasing the almighty dollar will foul up college football six ways from sunday.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
9:42 am

Paul in RDU –

Think about it. With Texas and A&M facing the possibility of being in two separate conferences, there’s nothing other than hurt pride on the part of one team that would keep it from scheduling the other in football and other sports. The same would be true for NCState and Wake if UNC and Duke were to be in an SEC16. It would be especially easy to schedule those traditional rivals in hoops, as out of conference (think December) opponents. I truly doubt that any of those four teams would feel a great need to keep playing football against each other every year. Do you?

ryan

June 14th, 2010
9:42 am

Memphis might have had a better chance at getting a BCS conference invite had the $10 million offer not been made in public. Now, it just looks sleazy and desperate.

T3

June 14th, 2010
9:42 am

I’ll offer up an idea that NO ONE,
not even the dubious “Mr. College Football” has evn considered…

The BIG12 should replace Colorado and Nebraska
with Arizona and Arizona State.

The BIG12 could offer AZ & AZST vastly greater somes
of TV money than the PAC10 could ever even hope to offer,
now or in the future.

And,let’s be serious for a moment.

The states of California and Arizona are…IN ALL ASPECTS…BANKRUPT.

The state of California is gutting public college spending, and so is Arizona. Anyone else see all the student protests at multipe California state universities over the issue.

AZ & AZST should realize that their ONLY LIFELINE is to attach themselves to a FINANCIALLY VIABLE conference, and that aint the PAC10.

It would be a takeover of the FIRST ORDER.

So, NOW that its been said, expect to see
“Mr. College Football” flap his gums over the airwaves.

BUt, remember, you heard it here FIRST.

Beast from the East

June 14th, 2010
9:43 am

I, for one, hope the Big 12 (10) can keep the conference together. They could add TCU, Houston, etc and keep their championship game. Let Texas start their own network. Then, like Tony said, who really cares what the heck the PacX does?

Dostoyevskiy

June 14th, 2010
9:43 am

You folks who keep talking about any of the old ACC members bolting for the SEC just have no feel for the ACC. Look, their is deep comraderie (sp) between those schools. It would be more likely that UGa and Alabama would move to the ACC, since they will do anything to advance their football programs. Not so in the ACC, they have loftier goals. The guy above is talking about the SEC talking to UNC is just “whistling in the dark”. Listen up buddy!

Pac 10 Rules

June 14th, 2010
9:45 am

We Rock! The SEC is backward while the Pac 10 is always 5 steps ahead of everyone else. There is your reason for Texas not wanting to join the SEC.

Shoryland

June 14th, 2010
9:45 am

Mizzou could be that companion for A&M, bringing the St. Louis and partial KC markets into the SEC fold:

http://shoryland.com/2010/06/conference-expansion-missouri-makes.html

Paul in RDU

June 14th, 2010
9:46 am

fbfan – the rumors on UNC and Duke going to the SEC are not coming out of the Triangle.
The local sports radio station – 99.9 – quoted an unnamed UNC official on Friday when asked about going to the SEC “we might not even answer the phone”.

The blog with the attached link pretty much sums up the attitude up here

http://www.tarheelfanblog.com/2010/06/as-the-dominos-fall-unc-duke-on-secs-dream-list/

Beast from the East

June 14th, 2010
9:46 am

T3,
Interesting thought, but I really don’t see anyone being foolish enough to leave the stability of the Pac10 to join the historically unstable Big12/SWC. Too much of a gamble long term. Texas is known to want to run things in their respective conference. No one needs all of that red tape unless you have no other options.

ryan

June 14th, 2010
9:46 am

I’ll expect unicorns and leprecauns to fall from the sky before you’ll ever see Duke or UNC leave the ACC.

That’s just dumb.

Thanks Tony

June 14th, 2010
9:49 am

Tony, Just a word of gratitude for sticking around to keep us informed about this frantic time when I know you had planned to be on vacation doing your “honey-do” list. Your keen insight and contacts within the business is appreciated.

Beast from the East

June 14th, 2010
9:49 am

Pac 10 Rules,
What does the Pac 10 rule in?
Certainly not any revenue sports.
Go back to your rainbow flag and sip your latte.
Men are talking here.

Paul in RDU

June 14th, 2010
9:49 am

fbfan – Do you really think that the politicians in Raleigh will let UNC and NCSU go to different conferences? Do you have any idea how things work up here? Do you even know who Jim Goodnight is? How about Erskine Bowles?

quedog

June 14th, 2010
9:51 am

Tony, does anyone know how T. Boone Pickens feels about Ok State being left out of the dance? His contribution, reportedly $100 million, should make him a player at his school and in the conference. Also, there must be plenty of Texas and Oklahoma money of sizable proportions wanting to be heard.

ryan

June 14th, 2010
9:52 am

More nonsense regarding TV markets…

Everyone says it would be great to add St. Louis through Missouri, but that you don’t need Miami because you have Florida? Everyone really think that everyone in Miami is watching the Gators and not the Hurricanes?

Eh, it’s just dumb. If you add a school like FSU or Miami, you’d have eyeballs all over the country watching.

Now, that being said, I’d rather not have either one, but only because FSU is on the decline and Miami is dirty.

Big Dawg

June 14th, 2010
9:53 am

“greater somes of TV money”

hilarious

PMC

June 14th, 2010
9:53 am

I just think the ACC should start thinking about becoming THE basketball conference, offer Kansas, Syracuse, Pitt… etc. An All ACC final 4 would be possible.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
9:54 am

ryan -

Your comment about TV markets only mattering in the Big10 does not hold water. From what I read and hear, the SEC’s deals with CBS and ESPN can (and would) both be reopened in the event of new schools in the SEC, and repriced according to new TV eyeballs/footprints that the new schools would bring. Hence the likelihood that whatever SEC expansion that does occur will not be within its current “footprint,” That is, no SEC bids for Louisville, GeorgiaTech, FSU, Miami, and Clemson.

That means that Slive’s list of possible expansion candidates is likely limited to the following:

A&M (which appears likely to join the SEC this week)

UNC (with Duke probably at UNC’s insistence)

VaTech (perhaps with UVa, but what I read leads me to believe that tie is not required)

Oklahoma (a great “get” if it would do it)

And lesser possibilities:

Missouri (St. Louis and KC TV markets, great quality school, borders 3 SEC states)

Kansas (further out, but stronger in KC TV market than Mizzou, and also a great quality school)

Cincy (a diamond in the rough, would be a great rival for UK, and would also get the SEC not only a bunch of new TV eyeballs, but fertile Ohio recruiting grounds – don’t think UK and UT wouldn’t especially love that)

Maryland (great school, TV markets in Baltimore and DC, but further away – would be a good add if VaTech is added) (however, Maryland is much more likely to be in super Big10, and appears to be next on Big10’s radar)

GeezusDawg

June 14th, 2010
10:01 am

Duke and UNC ???????????

It will not happen – they will raid the Big East and rebuild the ACC if necessary. There is NO WAY either of those schools leave what is effectively their conference.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
10:02 am

Paul in RDU -

You talk NC politics. See the Texags.com football forum for an educational primer on how the once-similarly-popular position about Texas politics appears to have crumbled over the past week, with A&M determined to go its own way, and, the week before, Baylor being re-educated about how the new superconference world and its $$$$$ has trumped old-style-politics.

The point is this: if the SEC goes to 16 teams, and the SEC wants the last two to join to be UNC and Duke, there would be SO MUCH MORE MONEY available to those schools that the NC politicians would be trumped by that reality. Now, might they try to substitute NCState (the other public university among the four NC schools in the ACC) for Duke (a private school)? Perhaps. But they might not fare well in doing so … see Baylor in all the post-Big12 discussions….

James Street

June 14th, 2010
10:03 am

GeezusDawg

June 14th, 2010
10:04 am

fbfan,
You obviously do not live in NC.

Pac 10 Rules

June 14th, 2010
10:04 am

@ T3…….

Endowment: Stanford $12.6 Billion….
UC Berkley $2.34 Billion….
USC $2.34 Billion……
UCLA $1.88 Billion…..
ASU $407 million….
AZ $ 519 million…..

Now compare that to the SEC. LOL…….Stanford alone has more cash on hand than the whole SEC put together!!!!! =]

ryan

June 14th, 2010
10:06 am

Which teams would advertisers rather spend their money on?

Rutgers or Oklahoma?
Northwestern or Alabama?
Houston or Florida State?
Tulane or Nebraska?
Vanderbilt or West Virginia?

TV markets are irrelevant if you have the best teams.

VA DAWG

June 14th, 2010
10:08 am

The only two that make any sense are A&M and VaTech……D-FW and DC TV Markets along with loyal college football fan bases. College football is the driving force behind all of this, just look at UK for example….their football program generates more money than their “crazy” loyal basketball program.

VA DAWG

June 14th, 2010
10:11 am

By the way, UNC is not leaving Duke, NCSU or Wake behind……if one comes, they all are coming. Similar to that of the Tx schools, except there is not an A&M in that bunch.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
10:11 am

James Street -

The Aggies would be fools to be in a 10 team Big12, which, as outlined, would still bring them less money than the SEC, and in which Texas would be allowed to continue to garner more % of the $$$ than everyone else, especially if it started a Texas network, as the Beebe plan would allow.

I hope the Aggies say good riddance to UT and join up with the SEC.

Ric Flair

June 14th, 2010
10:11 am

VA Dawg – you can’t get VT without UVA.

ryan

June 14th, 2010
10:13 am

fbfan, just because you have a school that’s near a large local TV market doesn’t mean you automatically have more viewers.

I think that’s the point you’re missing.

Adding FSU to your lineup will get you far more national viewers than by adding a Missouri.

You’d have better luck renegotiating the TV deal based on potential matchups.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
10:14 am

To all:

I’ve never said that I think UNC and Duke are the best possible 15th and 16th teams for an SEC16, only that they are reported to be Slive’s two choices if it gets to that.

I would rather have an SEC14, with A&M and VT as the two new teams, and leave it at that. That seems even more likely to be a good solution for the near term, given today’s news that Texas appears to have decided to be part of a Big12-2, whether A&M joins the SEC or not.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
10:15 am

ryan -

As I understand it, FSU had a bid to join the SEC when it instead chose the ACC, because BobbyB knew his teams could dominate the ACC, but not the SEC. That’s akin to GT leaving the SEC. In addition, from what I understand, UF would never want to add FSU or Miami, thus leaving Florida as the only in-state school for that fertile recruiting ground, and UGa would never want to add GT, for similar reasons.

ryan

June 14th, 2010
10:19 am

I was using FSU as a hypothetical.

They’re not coming here.

5IML

June 14th, 2010
10:20 am

I wonder if journalists are the sources of these SEC/UNC/Duke rumors.

GeezusDawg

June 14th, 2010
10:23 am

The point is that (believe it of not) there are some schools that do not care about TV revenue and football. UNC and Duke fall into that category. Everyone seems to think adding schools to a conference is like walking down the aisle at the supermarket … it’s not.

Kansas to the ACC???? I’m sure they enjoy their long Atlantic coastline in Kansas.

Tony Barnhart

June 14th, 2010
10:24 am

Chip Brown has done the best job of reporting on this story. If this one is true, it changes everything because the Big 12 will stay together.

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1094038

SOGADOG

June 14th, 2010
10:26 am

Fan support is a factor that has not received much attention in the realignment decision for Texas. A team’s most loyal fans want to travel to away games. It wont be feasable for Texas and the other Big 12-2 fans whose teams join the Pac 10 + 1 to travel to the West coast for games. Fan support has to be a factor and I imagine the fans and big boosters are giving the Big 12-2 commissioner an earful about the prospect of having to travel to Washington, Oregon and California for away games. I predict the Big 12 – 2 remains intact and adds two new teams if the powers that be listen to the fans instead of the TV networks and accountants.

im4bama

June 14th, 2010
10:28 am

All I know is that am anxious to see how it all shakes out and who the SEC invites. The rumor of the SEC going after UNC and Duke is surprising, but when you think about Basketball in the SEC, instead of football, then is makes sense. Adding those two would really give the SEC basketball some teeth. Let’s face it, SEC football is already tough enough and we don’t need a OU or Texas to make the road that much tougher for all involved and trust me, OU and Texas don’t want any of the SEC schedule either. What if the SEC expanded to 16 and we also invited Kansas and A&M, you would have Kansas, Kentucku, UNC and Duke in our own little final four. We would have the best teams for winning National Championships in football and basketball. Now that would be impressive and something tells me that’s what ole sly Slive’s angle is.

Beast from the East

June 14th, 2010
10:30 am

ESPN is just reporting that 4 Big 12 sources are reporting that A&M is coming to the SEC and the other 4 are going to the PAC 10. Said Beebe failed to convinve them all to hold it together.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
10:31 am

TONY -

Chip Brown is the Horns’ mouthpiece, and some of his reporting has been way off (see, e.g., Nebraska never leaving for Big10, and his early reporting that the Pac16 raid of Big12South minus Baylor plus Colorado was a done deal, when it clearly wasn’t because A&M was not on board).

The proposed Big12-2 would screw A&M even worse than it’s now screwed (along with other Big12 members), because it favors the Horns even more than the old Big12 deal did, in which the Horns had greatly disproportionate power and $$$.

So … please take Chip Brown’s posts with several grains of salt, because of his bias and his past errors in reporting (e.g., see just yesterday when he reported that A&M had turned down the Pac10 invite, only to have to run a correction later in the day when A&M made it clear that no such turn-down had happened).

ATL Gator

June 14th, 2010
10:31 am

Orangebloods.com now reporting that UT may be staying put. Utah will become the 12th team in the Pac-10.

Beast from the East

June 14th, 2010
10:32 am

Typo….should be convince not convinve.

volky

June 14th, 2010
10:34 am

If the SEC cannot get OU, would Missouri & Texas A&M be a viable option? Missouri already borders 3 SEC states and would give the St. Louis & Kansas City TV markets.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
10:35 am

I should have added that the Big12-2 looks like a go for all but A&M, who would logically be replaced by TCU, as if logic had anything to do with it.

As a CUBuff alum, I’d love the Big12-2 to happen, because that means my alma mater would likely find Utah added to what would become the Pac12, and my alma mater could be free once and for all (well, for a few years until the Big12-2 implodes because of Horns’ greed) of the Horns, the RedRaiders, the BaylorBears, etc.). We had no problems with the Oklahoma schools.

The Big12-2 minus A&M, with A&M to the SEC, would also good news for SEC fans, because it would likely mean an SEC14, with VT as the 14th, with divisions as they are now, one more intra-division game, and thus one less cupcake game….

Beast from the East

June 14th, 2010
10:35 am

Joe Schad is saying that the departure from the Big 12 is imminent.
Once again, he said that four sources informed him that Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State are going to the PAC 10. Also said that it appears Texas A&M is looking towards breaking away from the pack (no pun intended) and heading to the SEC.

Reptiles Rule

June 14th, 2010
10:38 am

Wouldn’t it be great if Texas decided to hold the Big 12 together (along with A&M) and the SEC could remain the same?? It all comes down to Texas and what they do.

Pac 10 Rules

June 14th, 2010
10:39 am

HaHa…. Texas and OU said no to the fat girl from the SEC.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
10:39 am

im4bama -

I agree with your dream SEC16 scenario, if it were to come to that. What a superconference that would be.

I’d still rather add just A&M and VT, however, and stop at 14. That wouldn’t blow up the great cross-division scheduling that now exists, but would only cause a lost cupcake out of conference game, which, let’s face it, all SEC schools need to do anyway.

KR

June 14th, 2010
10:42 am

Have any of you laying out potential expansion candidates thought about the travel involved for the teams? For example, if the SEC were to add UTx, VT and Miami, they’ve effectively tripled their travel budgets. Plus there is the additional strain on the people involved. Remember how much the UGa fans talked about the toll that travelling to AZ St. put on them?

So while expanded TV markets are a major consideration, the schools are going to have to keep in mind the fact that they will have to actually play these games in all sports.

Will

June 14th, 2010
10:43 am

Just talked again to a well placed source within the Big 12.

It now appears that the Big 12 will remain a viable, if somewhat weaker, 12 team conference with only two more defections and four replacements. Should be settled within the next two weeks.

SOOHSO

June 14th, 2010
10:44 am

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
10:44 am

Pac10 Rules -

My CUBuffs are the 11th Pac10 team

IF the Big12-2 story is true, and if the A&M to the SEC stories are true, then you’d be TWICE wrong about the Pac10 being so many moves ahead of everyone else.

We’ll just have to wait (probably not very long) and see.

I hope it’s a Pac12 with Utah joining Colorado. That’d be a fine conference, in every way (not the least of which that it would avoid the horrible eastern 8 of ASU, UA, CU, TTU, UT, OU, OSU and either A&M or likely Kansas), which, according to most of the scenarios, would play as a division, not as two pods, and would not have its winner in a championship game against the old Pac8 teams’ winner).

Charlie Bama

June 14th, 2010
10:44 am

I think Texas A&M is a good fit for the SEC, and if OKie comes, too–all the better. But what the heck; Why stop at 14?? I’d look seriously at attracting VaTech and some other new TV market ACC team (note I said “New” TV market, which means Clemson, FSU, Miami are NOT in the mix). Maybe an NC State or, hey, maybe a Mizzou? In the final analysis, it’s all about NEW, expanded TV eyes that equal mo’ $$$.

Roll Tide

June 14th, 2010
10:46 am

If A&M joins the SEC, they should be in the same division as ‘Bama and Kentucky. It could be called the “Bryant Division”.

Tim James

June 14th, 2010
10:47 am

I still think Auburn should jump to the Sunbelt — better match in terms of athletics and academics. Just sayin’ . . .

GeezusDawg

June 14th, 2010
10:50 am

I doubt Utah will get a Pac-10 invite. The Pac-10 had a problem with Baylor because of religious affiliation. Utah is a Mormon school.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
10:50 am

Charlie Bama -

Stop at 14, please. If you went to 16, then cross-division rivalries such as the following would almost certainly have to be discontinued, or played only some years:

Auburn-UGa
Bama-UT

AND, depending on the geography of the four teams added, Bama or Auburn, or both might come East, and that’d be quite a mess to politic, especially in keeping some of the current rivals on yearly schedules….

An SEC16 is just too messy altogether, so it should only be done if and when the four or five superconferences scenario appears likely, and today’s news about a likely Big12-2 makes that less likely in the near to middle term, if ever…..

Richard

June 14th, 2010
10:51 am

Tony,

Since this whole thing is driven by football TV money, follw my logic on this:

Let’s say an SEC or ACC team got $20 million from TV money in a year. If they brought in a single team, that team needs to be able to increase the TV contract by $20 million per year in order to make it a financially good move. Other than Texas, is there a single team out there that does it?

Now for the Big-10 and Pac-10, adding a team or two also brings in a conference championship game. That makes it more financially responsible. Other than that, I don’t see the point.

Even if the Big-10 goes to 16 teams, why does that force the SEC to follow suit?

bjohndawg

June 14th, 2010
10:52 am

Okay….SEC should take Texas AM or Houston…pick up Texas market.
Take Missouri and get that ST. Louis market.
Grab Cinci and pick up Ohio.
And then offer VA. Tech and get that Virginia market.

4 new teams four new TV market states

East – Va Tech, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Vandy, Tenn,Kentucky and Cinci,
West – You have Auburn, Bama, Miss, Miss State, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri, and either A&M or Houston.

Fairly balanced and since it is all about TV money anyway…4 new TV markets.
Let the cash roll in.
Then lets look at taking care of these players better with some real consideration to true living expenses.

Because most of them cannot do “dinner and a movie” with a girl unless it is on TBS.

Joe Tess Fish House

June 14th, 2010
10:52 am

As usual, you SEC homers continue to embarrass your self with the notion the SEC is superior and every team wants in.

im4bama

June 14th, 2010
10:53 am

fbfan-

Trust me, I wouldn’t mind if we don’t expand, I think 12 teams is just right. My wish would be to drop Vanderbilt and add FSU or Virginia Tech, but going to 14 is doable like you said. Honestly, I don’t give a rats ass about basketball anyway, I’m a football guy.

r2d2

June 14th, 2010
10:53 am

would the SEC consider dropping 2 teams? i vote Vandy (east) and Arkansas (West).

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
10:53 am

Utah is NOT a Mormon school. It is a public university in a predominantly Mormon state (which would give the Stanford band a lot of material to exploit), and, if you’ll look it up, it is quite a great fit for the Pac12 as a research institution, and also as a TV market.

It’s BYU (and Baylor and name any other religious private school) that would never be admitted to the Pac12, not Utah. The Utes would be a gem of an addition, and a logical “travel partner” of CU in the Pac’s “travel partner” scheme of long-standing….

Roll Tide

June 14th, 2010
10:53 am

If Auburn leaves for the Sun Belt, what would become of the Dooley-Dye Division?

Yankee Down South

June 14th, 2010
10:54 am

I think some posters on this thread are missing the key difference between motivating factors for the SEC, ACC, Pac-10 and BigTen in expanding. Ryan, you say the matchups are the most important factor to increase viewership, which leads to more advertising dollars for broadcasters, and ultimately a richer deal for the league. I agree, to the extent that this pertains to traditional media contracts like the SEC and ACC. Total footprint population isn’t as important more than you get the most people possible to watch your game when it’s on so the networks can in turn pay you more money for your product.

The BigTen (and according to Larry Scott, the Pac-10’s new) business model relies a large percentage on that ad income while also pulling a significant amount of revenue from the number of people paying for their network even if they don’t watch, so guaranteeing footprint population (and therefore getting your network onto that market’s TV sets) is equally or more important. I think what you saw both sides of the coin with the addition of Colorado and Nebraska.

While Colorado may not have national pull, they allow the Pac-10 to have the best chance of getting their network into the higher population Denver and ski area markets. Nebraska, on the other hand, doesn’t bring TV sets in any significance, but has national cache and following. This allows a small population addition but is more focused on providing big matchups for the ABC/ESPN contract to allow better mid-level matchups to move to the BigTen’s network (and higher ad dollars for the valuable TV properties, which are live events like a football/bball game). Apparently, the BigTen found that to be profitable enough to expand, in conjunction with an assumed CCG.

I also think by adding Nebraska, a brand versus a major market, the Big Ten is showing they are focused on NYC/DC. They may still be trying to get UT but are using the East as a backup. While no single team pulls the NYC market, having more major brands (UM, PSU, Neb, OSU, eventually ND?) playing in the NYC or DC markets (Rutgers/MD) would draw excitement from those following their local team, but also from the large number of BigTen alumni that typically end up in NYC/DC after college. It’s pretty obvious how fans down here feel about ND but based on the coverage you see of them on ESPN, I hope you can understand how much of a following they have on the East Coast and in the Midwest.

I just wanted to point out how the SEC/ACC may be looking at different factors (or at least place different weight on those factors mentioned above) than the Pac-10/BigTen based on their business models. I think A&M would be a good fit in the SEC and would go after OK, WVU, KU, and Louisville, in that order, to pair with A&M if I were Mikey Slive. Get some b-ball balance to the conference, you don’t need more powerhouse football programs to get to 14.

GeezusDawg

June 14th, 2010
10:57 am

An official Mormon affiliated university? No. 95+% Mormon enrollment? yes. Trustees and administration Mormon? Yes. Mormon values firmly entrenched? yes. Cal-Berkley fit? no.

rex

June 14th, 2010
10:57 am

Tony: in regard to this
“I once thought the SEC would look to the ACC. I no longer feel strongly that will be the case.”

What DO you think the case would be ?

Really

June 14th, 2010
10:58 am

It is conceivable that Tex A&M will fit nicely into the SEC. If this happens, I look for the SEC to go after Maryland. Maryland can expand the SEC footprint, and is an AAU member. I think the SEC would be best served by going to 14 teams, not 16. If they look to go to 16, look for the SEC to potentially go after Tex A&M, Maryland, and either Louisville, Memphis, W Vir., Clemson, or Miami.

In response, the ACC will be forced to go after Rutgers, UCONN, USF, Syracuse, Cinn, or Pitt. If the ACC loses Maryland and Clemson, Rutgers and UCONN can solidify the east coast market from New Jersey to Maine. USF, Miami, and Fla State will lock down central and southern Fla televisions. South Carolina’s population is not large enough to consider in this equation. But, Virgina and Virginia Tech will certainly sure up northern Virginia and D.C. metro. Add Cinn. to get into the Ohio Valley region, and add Syracuse for the New York market.

One other potential candidate is Temple. Adding Temple would give the ACC the entire eastern seaboard. Temple adds the Philly market. So now the ACC would have major television markets in Atlanta; Miami; Charlotte; Washington; Philly; New York; and Boston.

Sounds like a winner to me. ESPN would love to have Duke and North Carolina come to Storres during basketball season.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
10:59 am

Yankee Down South -

Very good points. What do you make of the Big10 courtship of Maryland rumors? That school is in a very, very sweet spot, as dominant as any in two major markets (DC and Baltimore), contiguous to a Big10 state (PA), an AAU member of long-standing, and in one of the only places available for Big10 expansion where the population and corporate ranks are both growing.

Tim James

June 14th, 2010
11:00 am

The blogospehere in Birmingham and Mobile is ablaze with rumors of Auburn going to the Sunbelt. I doubt it’s true–maybe, but doubtful. Troy is on the rise, and that makes Lee County uncomfortable.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
11:01 am

Really – we crossed in our last posts. I think Maryland is much, much, much more likely to join the Big10 than the SEC. Why? Because it CAN, and would be a much better fit in the Big10.

Hal

June 14th, 2010
11:01 am

I see no advantage for the SEC to take a ACC team. I do see an advantage for the Big 10 expanding their market in the south and more so in Atlanta for the TV market and as a recruiting exposure in the heart of the south when their teams visit. If the SEC gets Texas A&M, Oklahoma, and Texas it will be harder for UGA to ever win and National Championship. Ga. Tech may get invited by the BIg 10 if they get an invitation anywhere.

bull-gator

June 14th, 2010
11:04 am

My prediction: the new Pac 12 will not add another school. Big 12 will add TCU and SMU. Big 10+2 will not expand any further with the addition of Nebraska. SEC stands pat. Now Pac 12 and Big 10+2 will now schedule a conference championship game. This sets up a perfect playoff system between the five major football conferences (ACC, Big 12, Big 10+2, Pac 12, and SEC). 12 teams in a national championship playoff; 5 conference champs and the five runners up, plus two at large teams from the highest rankings at the end of the regular season (read Big East/Mountain West,etc.) Did I miss anything?

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
11:06 am

Hal,

GaTech is an AAU school (recent addition to that research-strong group), and has been rumored, along with Vandy (also an AAU school) to be on Delany’s Big10 expansion radar. See his remarks early on about population shifts to the South being one of the things the Big10 has to be pro-active in addressing….

Think about how many more seats GT as a Big10 member could add to its stadium, and be sure to sell each week, if only to the gazillion Big10 alumni who live in metro Atlanta, It’d be like how the Hawks draw at Phillips Arena when big Northern teams come to play, or how the Braves draw for the Cubs and Mets.

Heck, even I’d be very tempted to get GT season tickets, to be able to watch some Big10 teams play in Atlanta (and scalp the other weeks).

Hoss

June 14th, 2010
11:09 am

The only one who benefits from SEC adding OU and aTm is the SEC. Why would they, especially OU, turn away from their rivalry/recruiting base in Texas and open it up to the SEC? Noticably absent in recent TX recruiting (compared to previous SWC abilities)? Arkansas.

Agreed that culture and geography make easier fit, but no way OU is going to self-inflict this wound. 95% of their roster is from Texas.

5IML

June 14th, 2010
11:09 am

If the Big XII -2 can hold it together with 10 members, it will make the Pac 10+1 look foolish. Colorado adds no value to any conference. In the Orangebloods article Tony referenced, the Big XII actually improved when Colorado left.

Who will the Pac 10+1 look to add as the twelfth member? Utah? British Columbia?

Beast from the East

June 14th, 2010
11:11 am

You guys need to tune into ESPN. They are reporting it’s going to be announced tomorrow or as early as today that UT, TT, OU and OSU ARE going to the PAC10. They are also reporting that A&M wants to break ties and come to the SEC. Again, Joe Schad is citing at least four sources within the conference. Said Beebe could not convince those 5 schools to stay in the Big 12 and try to hold it together.
Tony, what have you heard on this?

Jimmy

June 14th, 2010
11:11 am

HAHA Texas A&M- what have they won since 1940? Why doesn’t the SEC add Texas State and SMU and Rice while you’re out there, then you’ll have your 16.

There are two ways to add value to your TV package- adding new geographical markets AND adding good football programs that will increase your # of intriguing match-ups, rivalries, and level of play. I see that the SEC has chosen the former thus far, and is apparently scared of the good, available FB programs within the SE. A&M brings nothing to the table FB-wise, they couldn’t win anything in the Big XII, so when they continue to suck don’t say it’s because of the SEC.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
11:11 am

bull-gator -

You got most of it, but did miss one thing:

Pac is only Pac11 with Colorado. Needs a 12th. I hope its the Utes.

AND you likely missed another:

I think A&M to the SEC is likely a done-deal, just not yet announced. Which means the SEC needs to add a 14th team, which I think a good many people hope is either Oklahoma or Virginia Tech.

Why add A&M? This is the one-and-only time that I think A&M is going to be available, and it brings SO MUCH with it that Slive has surely determined that it’s a no-brainer. I bet that its addition alone would be a net-plus of extra $$ to each conference school, especially when the 14th team from outside the SEC’s current footprint is added.

PMC

June 14th, 2010
11:14 am

A&M had a pretty good program under RC Slocum. I’m not really sure what has happened to them since Dat Nguyen was there.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
11:15 am

Beast from the East -

I think the A&M to SEC reporting is likely true, but the other bit, about Texas,TTU,OU, and OSU to the Pac is likely stale news, given what Texas is reported as having done with Big12-2 today.

Why? ESPN has been SO behind on the expansion story.

But you might be right. We’ll just have to see.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
11:15 am

More rumors… Not sure if truly credible, ???
TEXAS agreed to stay in the remaining big 12… Apparently the big 12 commish is forcing new TV contracts with huge revenue. ESPN is willing to dish out big bucks to keep Texas in network, hence they do not want a competitive West coast media to get an upper hand in the market.
COULD THIS BE TRUE… It is being reported but just find strange as this should have been done last month if not sooner.

jj

June 14th, 2010
11:15 am

SEC fans are annoying

cursive

June 14th, 2010
11:16 am

Out Super-Conference the “PAC 16″. Go after Va Tech, Ga Tech, FSU, UNC, Oklahoma, Texas, hell go after all of them. The benefit of playing in the SEC would be a boon to any team that would get an invite…

DawgDad

June 14th, 2010
11:17 am

As an older sports fan (not quite Sr. Citizen yet) all this realignment stuff is a bit disconcerting. It’s one thing for smaller schools and schools where athletics is not the institutional priority to realign, quite another when the big-boys start shuffling around like this. Fact is, the Big-8 lit a delayed fuse time bomb when it absorbed Texas along with the remaining SW Conference schools. Politically, Texas dominated the conference and ran roughshod over the interests of many of the older members like Missouri, Kansas, Colorado, and Nebraska. A LOT of tradition is being destroyed here, and that tradition is a key foundation piece of the value of these programs. I come to Atlanta from Missouri (born and grew up there), and this explosion of the Big-12 makes me sick.

Kanasas, K-State, and Missouri need to move forward together, wherever that may land them. I’d throw Iowa State in there, too, although to a lesser degree. These teams link well with Arkansas in the SEC West, but adding some or all of them kind of destroys the meaning of “SEC”, right?

I don’t get the whole Texas A&M thing. Be careful what you wish for.

Let’s name all these new conferences “Money Grab East”, “Money Grab West”, “Money Grab Central”, etc. That’s all it’s about; it is not about the athletes, the students, or the alumni, and the next time I see an NCAA add touting the “tradition of college athletics” I think I’ll puke. Absorb a Texas into the SEC now and you can bet the SEC will fly apart at the seams like the Big-12 in the next decade. Do you really want UGA, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Mississippi, and Florida football/athletic interests to be subservient to the profit-chasing Longhorn interests? I don’t think so. SEC, think carefully before you act.

RamblinRed

June 14th, 2010
11:20 am

Chip Brown of Orangebloods.com, who has been one of the early reporters on this from the beginning – it was his report that started the whole PAC-16 talk, is just breaking with a report that Texas has decided to stay in the Big 12 and not go to the PAC-10. The money numbers they looked at this weekend was that the remaining Big 12 schools could end up with $14-17 per year after next season. it would also allow TX to start its own TV network.

Brown said an announcement could come as early as this afternoon. If this happens then the ball is in A&M’s court. Would they stay in a 10 team Big 12 or go to a now likely 13 team SEC. if they went to the SEC then TX and the 3 others would likely back out of the Big 12, if TX A&M stays then the Big 12 might survive after all with the PAC-10 then offering Utah to get to 12 so they could have a CG.

Alot of different rumors still are coming out – all we can do is wait and see what happens in the next 2-3 days.

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1094038

jj

June 14th, 2010
11:22 am

i heard the new york giants are joining the big east…people, please this is all to do about nothing once its done

Balderdash

June 14th, 2010
11:22 am

The SEC will add Texas A&M and Georgia Tech.

BigTimeTECHFan

June 14th, 2010
11:23 am

what if the Big 12 (10) added
Utah
TCU
Houston
Boise St

They would end up being a better conf then before Nebraska and Colorado left. That would be nice and PAC Ten loses out big time

Yankee Down South

June 14th, 2010
11:23 am

fban – I will just concede that I have no idea how the MD-BigTen courtship may play out, but here are a few things I believe are pretty much consensus among people that follow the Big Ten closely:

- I think Maryland and Rutgers are the top candidates after UT and ND. I believe many in the BigTen think Maryland/Rutgers is very much like another Wisconsin/MSU in a major media market. Not necessarily in football performance, but great fits academically, institutionally, and overall athletic department profile. By adding Neb, the BigTen can focus less on football competitiveness and more on other major factors. Like you said, Maryland brings 2 new huge markets and is AAU, but also a new state (2 new senators to help vote thru research grants to BigTen institutions), a significant research presence, a solid to great undergrad experience, and a relatively good cultural fit. These ARE big factors for the Big Ten whether they are for other conferences.

- I don’t think anything happens with Rutgers, Maryland, or other East Coast teams until this Big 12 mess gets sorted out. I don’t see the BigTen making a move until Texas is off the table in one way or another. If some way, some how (not saying it’ll happen), Jim Delany can snag UT without too much collateral damage (re: Texas Tech), Notre Dame will join the BigTen and its expansion may stop there.

ND administration can read the tea leaves, understand they’ll probably need to join a conference eventually and need an excuse to tell their alumni why they’re capitulating. Adding UT and either MD/Rutgers allows ND to play a ‘national’ schedule (Midwest, USC, NYC/DC, Texas) that they cherish. But I don’t think that scenario is very likely. I think UT ends up in the Pac-whatever or forms some temporarily reformed Big 12 because the BigTen isn’t going to give Texas special TV considerations for their Longhorn Sports Network.

- If UT is off the table and the Pac-10 has ended up at an even number of 12 or 16, I think the Big Ten takes a couple different routes. Depending on how they feel about pulling the NYC market, they may focus more on an Rut/Cuse/ND/Pitt combo. If they think they can pull NYC with just Rutgers/ND and UM/PSU/OSU/Neb, I think you see them go after MD and either Pitt or UVa, but only UVa if the SEC takes VT, freeing up UVa to leave the ACC.

As far as rumors, there are several connections. While the MD athletic director said they won’t leave the ACC, I honestly don’t think ADs other than the notable exception of Tom Osborne will have much to do with talking to the Big Ten until a decision has been made and schedules and stuff like that need to be worked out. The Chancellor of the UMD system is a former Ohio State provost (academic) that has worked with the influential OSU President Gordan Gee (former Vandy head). I really don’t know if this actually means anything.

Ultimately, the decision rests in MD’s hands. Their situation and history in the ACC are good enough that they can just stay put if they wish, while on the other hand, the BigTen offers enough pros and improvements that it may be in their best interest to join. I honestly don’t know. I think the answer to the question ‘Would MD join the BigTen if they had the chance?’ depends as much on what UT does and whom the SEC may snag as it does their interest in the Big Ten. If the SEC grabs institutions like Clemson and VT, I see a lot more interest coming out of MD.

Common sense

June 14th, 2010
11:24 am

Texas A&M contributes nothing to the SEC… why are we wasting our time?

The SEC’s contract with CBS and ESPN assures that SEC games will be on TV sets all across the country (including Texas and California) every week of the college football season.

There is no stipulation in that contract, at least none that I’ve found, which allows the conference to re-negotiate the deal in the event of expansion/contraction. That means the SEC is likely locked-in to this deal for the next 14 years.

If the SEC can’t re-work its deal, A&M and the mystery 14th member would just be taking away from the shares of media revenue that current members take home. Given the fact that A&M is a middle-of-the-road Big XII school, its not really an addition that would make ESPN say “we need to re-negotiate our contract and give the SEC more money!” Think about it, aside from the Thanksgiving game against Texas, how many times were the Aggies on ESPN or ESPN2 last season?

Their athletic department is in debt. Their football team isn’t very good. They aren’t a “sexy” match-up. Seriously, I don’t see the benefit of adding A&M.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
11:26 am

DawgDad –

I agree that the SEC should not now or ever invite Texas to join (unless and until the SEC leveled the money playing field along Big10 lines, which I gather is unlikely – see UF). But A&M is a great addition to the SEC, because A&M doesn’t insist on things like a Texas network, likely a championship game at JerryWorld, etc. As noted by others, A&M not only brings more eyeballs, and a new footprint, but fertile recruiting ground. It’s also a good cultural fit, which not many other potential expansion candidates would be.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
11:28 am

Copied from an article

http://www.burntorangenation.com/2010/6/11/1514507/why-does-aggie-want-into-the-sec

Why the aggies continue to believe that a move to the SEC would be in their best interest befuddles all logic and reason. Well, okay, maybe that’s a bit harsh. I shouldn’t say it like that. There are “reasons”, but being aggie reasons, to say they’re flawed is like saying that Omar al-Bashir is simply “misunderstood”. Let’s take a look at some of the things I’ve heard bantered about on the interwebs by various ags in support of a move to the SEC.

Reason 1: “We’ll (a&m) be able to recruit at the Texas/OU level once we join the SEC.”

No – you won’t. I honestly don’t understand this argument at all. Let me see if I understand this correctly. Texas, OU, Texas Tech and oSu are going to be joining a super conference, getting a major television contract that encompasses 7 of the U.S.’s 20 largest television markets, are probably going to be a part of their own conference network; yet Texas a&m fans are convinced that the SEC is going to give the ags leverage in recruiting? Do you think Texas and OU are going to be on t.v. less once they join a league with USC and UCLA? Maybe the aggies are thinking they’ll fare better in recruiting once Florida, Tennessee, Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Auburn, USC, UCLA, and Arizona St. all have conference in-roads to the state? I mean they haven’t fared well in recruiting battles with Texas, OU or LSU the past decade or so, but I’m sure once they’re taking on an additional half dozen or so major recruiting competitors things will get much easier. Oh and I feel obligated to point out that yes, bringing in the SEC teams might mean that instead of getting 23 of the 25 blue chips UT has targeted in Texas, they might only get 18 or 19. Of course the Horns and the Sooners will also be playing in the second most talent-rich state (California) on a semi-regular basis and due to brand identity will have their games across all sports broadcast and promoted with intense regularity in the California market. A market that has exactly ONE football super power. And that one has just been slapped in the face by NCAA, thus somewhat neutering them on the recruiting trail for the next two or three years. Somehow I think Texas and OU will find a way to make up the difference. In addition, recruits like teams that can win, which dovetails nicely into reason number two.

Reason 2: “The SEC plays the best football in America!”

Yes, yes they do. Unfortunately the aggies have struggled to remain competitive in a much weaker Big XII. Joining the SEC isn’t some magic potion. Just because you’re in a league with Florida and Alabama doesn’t mean you’re suddenly going to begin playing football like them. There aren’t any Baylors or Iowa States to pad wins in the SEC. You might think you’ll be gaining a recruiting advantage by signing up with the SEC (you won’t), but any perceived advantage is going to be put to bed once those 3-8 and 2-9 seasons start piling up. And they will. Nobody stays on top in the SEC for an extended period of time anymore because it’s just too brutal; but there are teams that never even make it there. Just ask Mississippi State.

Reason 3: “We’ll make boatloads more money than UT in the SEC.”

No – you won’t. Look the SEC makes money hand over fist right now no doubt. But they’re basically locked-in with television rights. ESPN has already paid them. ESPN has already got the goods on an SEC network. That deals done. The pie has been served. Now you’re just talking about putting it on more plates. Might they be able to re-negotiate? Possibly. The Pac-10 on the other hand is about to get a brand new television deal. If they’re able to bring Texas and some of their cousins into the fold, the networks will be backing up banks (like, the actual buildings – vaults and all) to the SuperPac’s door. Even if the SEC is able to negotiate a better t.v. deal though, you’re still not going to make as much money as Texas. Texas leads the nation in revenue, is first or second in merchandise sales, and I suspect is one of the two or three highest rating producers in the country. None of that is going to decrease by Texas moving to a super conference. That’s why every conference in the country is basically promising anal if we go out with them.

Reason 4: “Going to the SEC will give us a chance to get out from under UT’s shadow.”

Ah, the real crux of the problem, imo. It appears that there are factions at a&m *cough, Dollar Bill, cough*, that are tired of playing second fiddle to the Longhorns and see a move to the SEC as the only way to “break out”. The problem with this is two-fold. For one, no one loves a loser, and that’s exactly what a&m is poised to be (at least football-wise) in the SEC. For another, if a&m actually succeeds in losing its connection with UT, it loses a major piece of itself. It is almost internet tradition to vainly argue whose fan base is more obsessed with whom, but let’s be serious for a moment. Texas a&m thrives on its rivalry with UT. If I had to guess I’d say about 50% of a&m’s traditions in some way or shape are in relation to the University of Texas. For a school that prides itself so much on its traditions I find it odd that a&m is willing to give them up. Yes Texas has traditions that are reflective of a&m, no doubt, but none approach the intensity or regularity of those that a&m reserves for Texas. And make no mistake, if a&m bolts to the SEC instead of group hugging it to the SuperPac, the two universities will be athletically severed for at the very least, the remainder of the current administration. I know a few Longhorns that would be very sad to see that rivalry die; but I don’t know any aggies personally that won’t be devastated.

So where does that leave us? Personally I hope the aggies do go to the SEC. I like the idea of the new SuperPac adding Utah instead. Let’s be frank, Texas is going to deliver 80% of the Texas market. Granted the remaining 20% is still a large populous, but I’d think the Utah/Salt Lake market is comparable. Plus Utah gives the new West SuperPac division some diversity and fresh blood. Also, they play better football. So they’ve got that going for them which is nice. I also think it’d be great to see yet another Texas rival mosey on to the SEC only to find the going rougher than a sheep’s life in College Station. I’m thinking a&m’s best case scenario in the SEC would be South Carolina. Worst case? Probably Mississippi State.Y’all have fun with that.

All that said I just don’t see it happening. I think at the end of the day the argument for going with Texas is just too strong for the aggie leadership to ignore. Not only will they be appealing to tradition (something aggies claim to love), but I think there’s enough of them that realize the danger in not joining Texas in a new conference, of letting Texas widen the financial and athletic gap even more, is too great to ignore. I don’t think there’s anyone currently at a&m that wants that as their legacy.

CAFEEJ

June 14th, 2010
11:29 am

The University of Maryland athletic directory Debbie Yow stated that she has not been contacted by the Big 10. There is some speculation that the Terps would be a good fit as the Big 10 would get a huge media market (Washington-Baltimore = 7 million+) and that it has the profile of a Big 10 school (large research institution). Since the ACC seems the odd-man out in all this, would this make sense for the Terps?

Contractor

June 14th, 2010
11:32 am

Tony,

I personally don’t see Texas A&M as an upgrade to the SEC. It’s like the Pac-10 taking Colorado, and they haven’t beefed up anything as a result of that. Mike Slive is a man I take, that will make a splash or no splash when it comes to the Southeastern Conference. Texas A&M is not a splash in my eyes, so I don’t just see them coming. They would have to have a partner join in the eyes of Oklahoma or Texas. Can you honestly think and see the Aggies coming alone, and that being the “we won’t sit still” decision of Mr. Slive?

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
11:32 am

Yeppie -

I will admit that I didn’t read your entire post, because it ignores what seems to be a Big12-2 done deal, with the only questions being whether A&M and possibly one other school (OU?) would be replaced, as someone else noted above. The Pac16 appears thus to be a no-go.

Delbert D.

June 14th, 2010
11:34 am

“And then offer VA. Tech and get that Virginia market.”

The University of Virginia market is heavily-populated northern Virginia/D.C./Richmond, and the Virginia Tech markets (SW Virginia on the West Virginia border) are Blacksburg and Roanoke. The next largest city close to Blacksburg is Greensboro, NC.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
11:35 am

TO several commenting about Maryland to the Big10:

Fascinating for the Big10 if that happens, and, as someone noted, if UVa were to join the Big10, too, after a VT to SEC move. That possibility, by the way, is probably one of the biggest reasons why the VA legislature might not mind one little bit if VT were to split from UVa to have VT go to the SEC….

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
11:37 am

fbfan,
You bring up a very interesting scenario… I know it was a long article but is sure did bring clarity about atm.

Yankee Down South

June 14th, 2010
11:37 am

I’m a transplanted fan down here, so I follow the SEC but you couldn’t call me a born-and-bred SEC fan. So to that breed of SEC fan, the true, hardcore SEC football fan, which institutions would you like to see added to the SEC?

As an outsider, I feel like WVU and Kansas are great options for the SEC but no one seems interested. Outside of the obvious (UT, A&M, Clemson, FSU), they seem to be big names that can draw the average sports fan to watch. WVU seems like a natural fit and brings a basketball program while Kansas brings someone to beat up on and a top-5 basketball program.

I understand expansion isn’t going to be based on basketball, but I really think the SEC could benefit from having some decent (not great) football additions that have brand names to put people in front of the TV while significantly improving the basketball situation. I already hear enough about the meat-grinder SEC schedule, so maybe add brand names that won’t make it worse while adding schools with a following.

Any thoughts from a strictly superficial point of view (not counting populations, demographics, etc)?

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
11:38 am

Contractor -

I hope Tony answers your question about A&M coming to the SEC by itself, with a 14th team to be added later (perhaps hours or days later, probably not months later). I’d like to know what he thinks about it.

One thing that would need to go into his thinking is all of the reporting about A&M’s courtship by the SEC, which does not appear to have included the requirement of another team as part of A&M’s invitation….

Common sense

June 14th, 2010
11:41 am

Kudos to Texas for finding their cash cow. I have a feeling that the Pac 16 doesn’t last long.

Something tells me that the Pac’s equal revenue distribution won’t make Texas too happy. If the Longhorns succeed in changing that to proportional distribution, there might be some bad blood developing (a la Big XII).

If its not the money than it will be the Pac 10 network. There will either be the Pac 10 Network (something the conference has said it strongly desires) or the Texas Sports Network (something the Longhorns have said they strongly desire). You can’t have both. There will be a fight over this… go ahead and write it down.

The cost of travel is too much to ignore. Yes, football can pay for a flight from Austin to Los Angeles. But what about a school like Texas Tech where a plane ride to Pullman, WA for a softball game is an expensive venture? Non-revenue sports are going to suffer the most here… student-athletes are going to spend more time on the road than in the classroom and schools are going to be shocked at just how difficult it is to field non-revenue sports over such expansive territory.

By the time the SEC’s TV deal comes up for re-negotiation in 14 years, the Pac 16 may well have crashed and burned.

aggie94

June 14th, 2010
11:41 am

Historically what happened to GT , when they left SEC and GA? Still hated rivalry or did some other sports suffer i.e. when UT and TAMU play in any sport…lots of passion, hatred and money.(UT has already threatened to end competition if TAMU goes to SEC). Don’t get me wrong I do want to leave the shadow of UT, but economics are important across the board.

Dave In Tampa

June 14th, 2010
11:41 am

Just me, but I think the perfect scenario would be grabbing OU & A&M. Forget about the Longhorns. That’s a done deal with the PAC-10. The SEC would not need to go to a 16 team conference if they can get these two colleges. Just an opinion.

Delbert D.

June 14th, 2010
11:42 am

If Mike Slive is spending any significant amount of time on Duke/UNC, the SEC presidents should let him know he’s going to get a salary cut instead of a bonus.

griffindawg

June 14th, 2010
11:44 am

Come on and join the SEC Texas A&M and Oklahoma, yall can be in the west and AU can come over the the east and the SEC will continue to dominate!

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
11:45 am

If y’all want a sampling of the uncertainty, put this google search link in your browser and press enter:

http://news.google.com/news/story?pz=1&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en&topic=s&ncl=dQdNaxKq3XgDvIMO75L98Do8wxDLM&scoring=n

It’s amazing the different takes on things, but it seems likely that Joe Schad’s ESPN reporting is wrong, and the Big12-2 reporting is right.

Time will tell …

Dave In Tampa

June 14th, 2010
11:45 am

Yea, I don’t understand the UNC/Duke involement with Slive as well? If it’s just for Academic purposes, then I get it. However, it would hurt the SEC from a football perspective. The SEC is about football when it comes to athletics not basketball.

Contractor

June 14th, 2010
11:46 am

Yankee Down South,

To be honest, I don’t think this decision will be based on any sport, but football, no matter what is said. Maybe that’s just the southern football fanatic in me, but that’s the meat and potatoes of the SEC. The SEC boast pretty decent basketball teams, real good baseball teams, good track teams, golf, etc, but football brings in the most revenue by far. I would like to see the SEC take Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech, and Clemson. Keep it the SOUTHEASTERN Conference, while bringing those teams would bring back old rivalries with Georgia-Clemson, the Florida schools playing each other for conference supremacy, Georgia Tech back to the SEC to start back up old rivalries, etc. Forget California, Georgia and Florida are the ultimate hotbeds of prep talent in the country, so why not sew the state of Florida and Georgia up to the SEC? I’m 26 years old, but I am a traditionalist and want things to remain the same as the old days, so I don’t want to see a Kansas, West Virginia, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, or even Texas join.

GeezusDawg

June 14th, 2010
11:49 am

If the SEC added Kansas, that would send the ACC straight into the Big East cabinet – they couldn’t stand the thought of a better basketball conference out there.

Delbert D.

June 14th, 2010
11:50 am

Listening to Chip Brown or OrangeBloods talking to ESPN, my impression is that Beebe is counting TV money that is not going to be there. A 10-member Big 12 triples their TV revenue, and all ten Big-12 get SEC-type money? When did China suddenly get a sudden need for college football?

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
11:50 am

Contractor -

My wishes mirror yours, except for Miami …

BUT …

Unless I’ve been VERY misled, the following teams are NOT going to be part of the SEC, not because of TV eyeball reasons, but old-fashioned hate/resentment/protect existing school’s turf reasons:

FSU
Miami
GT
Clemson

Each can (and will) continue to be scheduled by its hated rival(s) who are in the SEC club, but will not be invited to join that exclusive club, for by doing so, each club member protects its market position, and can continue to look down on its less-well-positioned rival.

Beast from the East

June 14th, 2010
11:55 am

fbfan,
ESPN just has the reporter from orangebloods on. Now they’re saying that the Big 12 will stay together. Who knows what going to happen?

Beast from the East

June 14th, 2010
11:57 am

Delbert,
That was too damn funny!

G8R GRAD

June 14th, 2010
11:57 am

If, as just reported, Texas is saying it is staying put, then A & M is really driving the bus.
If the Aggies bolt for the SEC, then all hell breaks loose and I think the powers that be see this a opportunity to negotiate a better deal for A & M’s revenue sharing position.
Texas has hitherto been getting a lion’s share of the Big 12 money, but the pie might be getting sliced a little more equitably with the SEC courting the Aggies so aggressively.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
11:57 am

fbfan and others—-

Once again, I must pour cold water on this idea that the University of Florida would veto Florida State from joining the SEC. Simply not true. False. Wrong. Incorrect. Erroneous. Fictional.

Florida wants Florida State in the SEC, and that was confirmed by public comments from both Urban Meyer and Jeremy Foley this past week. Any time the Seminoles want to accept an invitation to join the SEC, all they need to do is phone Gainesville. The Gators will be happy to relay the message to commissioner and sponsor the Seminoles’ application for membership.

Why, you ask? Because it would be in Florida’s best interests to get FSU under the same tent:

1. It would simplify football scheduling, and open up a slot for other home-and-away series for the Gators without reducing the UAA’s existing revenue model that funds all of the other good to outstanding Gators sports teams. It would also help scheduling for all other sports; the Gators play the Seminoles in every men’s and women’s sport other than lacrosse (the Noles don’t have a team).

2. It would ensure that the Seminoles must play an annual conference schedule of nearly identical difficulty every year, thus not affording FSU any advantage in the annual football rivalry. That, however, is exactly why Bobby Bowden “vetoed” SEC membership in 1990, and why Jimbo Fisher and the FSU powers-that-be would probably not accept an SEC invitation in 2010.

Florida and Florida State already share the same media markets and the same principal recruiting grounds, but presently Florida is better able to cherry-pick on a national basis. None of that would change if FSU joined the SEC. There’s really no downside for the Gators if the Seminoles decided to “man up,” as the kids say these days.

FSU and Texas A&M would both be great additions to the SEC, but the Seminoles didn’t want it 20 years ago and the most likely don’t want it in 2010. You can lead Renegade to water, but you can’t make him drink.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
11:57 am

Beast from the East,

See the articles that come up with this, and refresh every few minutes:

http://news.google.com/news/story?pz=1&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en&topic=s&ncl=dQdNaxKq3XgDvIMO75L98Do8wxDLM&scoring=n

See also the TexAgs football forum, and refresh it. too:

http://www.texags.com/main/forum.topic.asp?forum_id=5&days=2

Between the two, you’ll be fairly up-to-date on “the action.”

Anti-alternative

June 14th, 2010
11:59 am

Yankee Down South

June 14th, 2010
11:59 am

Contractor – Fair enough. I can definitely respect keeping the culture and feel of the conference together with those additions. I’m big on tradition as well.

I totally agree that football is what will make this happen. I just was curious to get thoughts on adding a *brand* rather than a football powerhouse. The Detroit Lions went 2-30 the last two years but would obviously dominate a college team, my point being that there isn’t a reason to add teams like FSU, Miami, VT, and A&M. Someone still has to lose if everyone is good, so maybe go for someone who, while still a big name in college sports, is a little more used to not being the alpha dog in football.

As a Detroit sports fan, we have grown to accept the Lions ineptitude over the past 50 years as long as we have the Wings, Tigers, and Pistons to cheer on (although it’s particularly painful to have all three of our football teams suck including UM and MSU). Not a direct analogy, but maybe go for a school that can add in other ways, like I think a Kansas or Louisville would. They don’t expect to win 10 games every year in football. But they’ll bring a large number of followers to watch the games and compete in other sports, which I think is a win for the SEC.

Contractor

June 14th, 2010
11:59 am

fbfan,

I can definitely see the hatred as being a reason with most of those schools, Florida ones for sure. Miami is like a mirage to me, because you see their athletics and think one thing, but their academics are very respected and a private school of all things, so I believe if they continue to act like Randy Shannon is coaching them, it wouldn’t be a bad thing. Florida State already declined an invitation a while ago I was told by my dad, due to getting beat up week in week out, but that’s hearsay of course, ha ha. It would be very smart for those schools to join, due to the ratings the ACC has received in their Championship games. The SEC will bring them more money, which I believe would trump hatred any day in the minds of the powers that make decisions for those schools.

ATLBuff

June 14th, 2010
12:00 pm

Colorado adds the Denver and Colorado State media markets to the Pac 10. Also, Colorado has about four to five times as many alumni in Pac 10 country as in Big XII country. That, plus the vastly improved locations of away games, means greater traveling by CU’s fanbase.

Utah brings the Salt Lake market into the Pac 10 and also serves as a defensive move against the Mountain West becoming a BCS conference. The Pac 10 would basically own the tv sets in two time zones stretching from the rocky mountain West to the Pacific Coast. Plus, Salt Lake and Denver are two of the fastest growing media markets in the country.

If the Pac stops at twelve teams, by adding Utah, it will have added two major growing markets, locked up an entire time zone (albeit relatively sparsely populated) as far as BCS conferences are concerned and increased their numbers to twelve, allowing for a conference championship.

Of course the prize is still Texas, but the longer Texas waits to make a decision, the less options (to bring along their friends) they’ll have.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
12:01 pm

fbfan—-

I don’t pretend to understand whether South Carolina wants Clemson, or Georgia wants Georgia Tech in the SEC, but I do know this: Florida wants Florida State in the SEC for all of the reasons I just stated. Please use the Google news search function for “Urban Meyer” and “Florida State” and review the news articles from this past week, and quit making stuff up.

Dave In Tampa

June 14th, 2010
12:01 pm

Delbert D – I also thought that was pretty funny!

Walt

June 14th, 2010
12:02 pm

Watch out sec. Texas may entice lsu and ark to move to the big 12.

Contractor

June 14th, 2010
12:02 pm

Yankee Down South,

I can understand what you say, and can actually agree. I would love to visit new campuses every other year to catch football games and see their game day traditions and stuff like that. That’s what makes college football so unique. But if that was to happen, I would prefer Georgia schedule them as NON-conference games, ha ha, and keep it in the South, but still schedule these bigger programs as out of conference foes.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
12:05 pm

Atlanta Gator – okay

But didn’t you also note that FSU is likely to say no if asked?

AND, to add FSU instead of one of the schools outside the SEC’s footprint would not perhaps be in Slive’s plans.

As a FAN, I think FSU in the SEC would be great, so maybe Slive’s plans allow for that exception, which would not coincidentally also help lock-up the state of Florida even more for SEC schools.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
12:07 pm

FYI – the TexAgs.com football forum site appears to be overloaded today. Someone earlier reported it had at least 12,000 people on it today (I think he meant at once)….

lawzoo

June 14th, 2010
12:07 pm

The discussion of UNC and Duke joining the SEC under any scenario is mind boggling.

“Em Dawgs getting after it at Walace Wade Stadium before a crowd of 23,000+.

“Em Dawgs in a shoot out with the Tar Heels in the friendly confines of Stegeman Autotorium.

Uh No chance. I would like 14 teams A&M but in the east there are no teams that come to mind where it would be beneficial or possible that come to mind.

This is fun,

ryan

June 14th, 2010
12:07 pm

I don’t see how TV contracts are still able to explode when advertisers are reeling from the recession and DVR technology.

Where does everyone think these millions of dollars are coming from?

It’s not Monopoly money. It has to come from advertisers, and those budgets are getting slashed.

G8R GRAD

June 14th, 2010
12:08 pm

“When you have them by the short hairs, their hearts and minds will follow”
-Richard Nixon

And right now, it appears that A & M has the Big 12 by the short hairs.

Techman

June 14th, 2010
12:09 pm

Strictly speaking as a fan and not looking at money, tv markets, etc., I think it would be cool to add GT, UNC & Duke to the SEC. However, I know this probably doesn’t make sense financially. I do wonder if the SEC would ever consider GT to keep the Atlanta market away from the Big 10 if the day came they offered membership to GT.

The aggies may not offer great football but as stated on here repeatedly, they add more viewership in the D-FW market. However, I think it would hurt their program similar to Arkansas if they decided to move to the SEC alone.

craziness

June 14th, 2010
12:10 pm

If the SEC expands to 16 teams, which includes the Aggies, I think Clemson, FSU and Va. Tech would be the ideal others.

Yech tucked tail and ran out of the SEC after St. Dodd was bent over a barrel by the Bear for 7 years. Let them continue to suffer in mediocrity.

Dave In Tampa

June 14th, 2010
12:10 pm

Enter your comments here

RamblinRed

June 14th, 2010
12:11 pm

OK, that latest ESPN report that Anti_alternative linked is one of the worst write-ups I have ever seen.

It is simply the 6:54 am article by Joe Schad saying the PAC-10 departures are imminent with the last 2 paragraphs added to reflect Chip Brown’s reporting that is 100% contradictory to the Schad report. Like trying to have it both ways.

AS to a couple of schools mentioned in this thread.
OK AD has already stated they will go whereever TX goes – they like the rivalry – that is why they are a complete no-go for the SEC. They will go to either the PAC-10 if TX bolts or stay with the Big 12 if TX keeps it together.

MD’s president has publicly stated that MD will not leave the ACC for the Big 10 as long as she is its President.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
12:11 pm

Contractor—-

Re Florida State’s reasons for not joining the SEC in 1990, Bobby Bowden, to his credit, was fairly forthright in his public comments. Bowden politely said that FSU thought the ACC was a better platform for getting FSU into major bowls and contention for a national championship. Heck, when FSU joined the ACC, the Seminoles were the eighth conference team, and only had to play a 7-game ACC conference schedule against Duke, Wake Forest, NC State, UNC, UVa, Georgia Tech and Maryland . . . not Alabama, Arkansas, Auburn, Georgia, LSU and Tennessee, in addition to Florida and Miami. If FSU had played in the SEC in 1990s, the Seminoles would have averaged 1 to 2 more losses per season and may never have won a national championship.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
12:13 pm

G8R GRAD -

Short hairs indeed.

Really, folks, when the TexAgs.com server(s) are able to handle the load, you can read the past day’s worth of material on there, and in so doing you will read a heart-warming coming-of-age story, as the Aggies come to a collective realization that they not only CAN exist outside of the Horns’ (they call them “sips” – which I gather is short for “tea-sippers”), but NEED to break free of the sips and go their own way in the SEC, where they are already being welcomed by many SEC posters.

gcs

June 14th, 2010
12:17 pm

I am curious about SEC divisions if they pick up two schools, say Texas A&M and Oklahoma. Somebody is going to have to go the the East Division and Auburn is geographically the furthest east school in the West Division followed by Alabama. Do they dare split Bama and AU?
Even if they do and make UA and AU the permanent crossover game on the schedule that would break up the annual Auburn-UGA game and UA-Tennessee’s Third Saturday in October.

Would/could the SEC form 3 divisions (West, Central, East), using a wild card team and SEC Championship semifinal games?

.

Anti-alternative

June 14th, 2010
12:17 pm

My bad…time stamp on the video said 11:23…figured Schad’s comments were new. Maybe not.

Dave In Tampa

June 14th, 2010
12:17 pm

Atlanta Gator –
Your post about FSU going to the ACC a few years ago was perfectly stated. They might not have won a NC if they played an SEC schedule. They had some great teams in the 90’s, don’t get me wrong, but they were not getting beat up “In the Trenches” ever week like the SEC teams do. They might have played a tough game and had 2 to 4 weeks in between of another semi-tough game to get ready for. It does make a diffrence.

Contractor

June 14th, 2010
12:18 pm

Atlanta Gator,

Ahh, ok. Thank you for clarifying that. My dad told me that when I was like 10. He just gave me the simple clear cut explanation, ha ha.

Alphare

June 14th, 2010
12:18 pm

I am now all against SEC expansion. Here are my reasons:

1. It’ll be a schedule nightmare. Remember the annual Auburn/Florida rivalry?

2. SEC is already too strong, you cannot make it stronger. Actually, more infights will make it hard to win NC.

3. Members cannot receive more money (unless Slive can convince me how).

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
12:19 pm

Everything hinges on TEXAS. If they stay the big 12 remains as a conference.
Thus: Pac 10 loses and the SEC does not have to react
If Texas goes to the Pac 10
SEC will mostlikely have to expand. That will be difficult for SEC to expand. ACC will not lower academics and then the geographic challenge to other prospect schools. Big East??? Big 12 north school with atm??

Texas is driving the bus. Not because it truly desires to be the driving factor but because it is the LeBron James courtship..

L.S.

June 14th, 2010
12:20 pm

Will the BCS be dissolved, and switched to an NCAA 64-team championship format?

Will the Oil Spill ever be cleaned up?

Will Obama be re-elected in 2012?

Oh, the humanity!!!!!!!

aggie94

June 14th, 2010
12:20 pm

That’s correct, the horns lounge around and discuss their greatness (with one another) over tea, while us ags consider the greatest conversations should be enjoyed while downing the suds.

G8R GRAD

June 14th, 2010
12:21 pm

If, again, Texas (and, presumably, Oklahoma) is staying, the Aggies stay too, if (and only if) they get a larger share of the confernce revenues.
Everyone else’s cards are on the table.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
12:22 pm

fbfan—-

Yes, the SEC wants to expand its footprint to include more and bigger television markets, but Florida State gets an asterisk because the Seminoles actually have a regional and national following. No other ACC football team can say that. The Seminoles would be a fine package deal with Texas A&M for the SEC, but the Noles don’t want it. Their AD and head coach have said as much this past week.

IMHO, if the Aggies actually jump (and their fans and regents seem to be in favor), the SEC needs to look to Missouri (big state university with lots of resources and the St Louis and Kansas City media markets) and Virginia Tech (big state university with lots of resources and a slice of the Richmond and Washington television markets).

G8R GRAD

June 14th, 2010
12:23 pm

L.S.:

No.

No.

Yes.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
12:23 pm

gcs -

About your post, if the 14th team doesn’t come from the West (e.g., OU), but from the East (e.g., VT), then no one needs to switch divisions, which seems best for all concerned.

IF A&M and another very West team are added, then I’ve read many speculate that Auburn is the likeliest to go East, changing Bama to be its out-of-division rival, and UGa would become its in-division rival, freeing UGa to have a different out-of-division rival, but causing Tenn to lose its out-of-division (Bama) rival.

Who might UGa’s out-of-division rival be under such a scenario?

Who might Tenn’s out-of-division rival be?

Far too many messy complications like that if both new teams are from far out in the West….

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
12:24 pm

G8RGRAD—-

Even if the Aggies decide to stay in a revamped Big XII (X), I like those guys! It’s good to see them giving it to Big Brother.

Contractor

June 14th, 2010
12:25 pm

L.S,

No 64 team format, hopefully 8 or 12 though.

Eventually it will when Obama throws on his Superman cape and parts the sea and sucks the oil out himself.

Hope the part of America who voted him in isn’t dumb enough to re-elect that piece of garbage.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
12:28 pm

TONY -

Don’t know if this is true, but … here’s a post just up on TexAgs.com’s football forum (and remember when reading it that Chip Brown is a UTexas hack, and has been wrong a lot on the recent stories, and that Liucci is an Aggie):

“Chip Brown has been logging several hundred computers on to the Texas A&M Fan website, TexAgs a source has reported. When asked what he was doing, Chip only responded with, “Liucci Sucks,” and kept about his business that another source just confirmed. It is speculated that Chip is trying to overload the TexAgs servers in a vain attempt to be the first to post breaking news on his twitter account. When asked why he didn’t simply try to overload twitter instead, Chip blankly stared off into the distance, a small tear running down his cheek.”

What an amazing week in the lives of the Aggies, who’ve been the butt of so many jokes over the years. The tables have turned and A&M is in the driver’s seat, not Texas (as between the two of them). Gig’em as they say.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
12:29 pm

If atm leaves to the SEC that does not harm Texas or OU. Texas has 80 percent of the Texas TV market share. All egos aside. What if the big 12 was to remain, and begin targeting Arkansas and LSU? Thus making the media companies to futher increase the pay out that meet the current SEC payouts. That would really be something fun to watch…

ryan

June 14th, 2010
12:30 pm

How can you squeeze another $68 million a year out of ESPN by going to 16 teams (assuming $17 million x 4)?

How2fish

June 14th, 2010
12:33 pm

Pac 10 Rules ..LOL really ? Texas won’t come to the SEC for one reason..they can’t dominate in the SEC like they can in the Big ? or the PAC ? Really think UF, Bama, LSU all teams that have won NC’s since Texas’s last one are going to play 2nd fiddle to Texas? No Texas is only going somewhere they are the Big Fish and after what happened to USC last week the PAC ? just might fit the bill.

RedNeck Rick

June 14th, 2010
12:34 pm

If Texas A&M decides to part company from Texas, they should be picked up by the SEC and bring Memphis along for the ride. Push the Alabama schools into the eastern division and there is a balanced SEC, at least from the numbers standpoint. Having Alabama, UF, Georgia, Tennessee, and Auburn in the same division does make for a stacked East, but put your money where your mouth is Tide, Gator, and Dawg fans! The West will be very competitive with LSU, Texas A&M, Memphis, and Arkansas.

I just don’t see Texas and Oklahoma moving to the SEC, even though they are better fits (in my mind) in the SEC than the Pac-Unknown #. Mizzou could also be a fit if Memphis isn’t deemed worthy, as that would be a good rivalry with Arkansas.

Hey, just speculating like everyone else!

aggie94

June 14th, 2010
12:34 pm

Yeppie,
80% TV market share??? aggie math/polls.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
12:34 pm

All the aggies want in life is to “loved”. They want some attention. They deserve some attention. Not really… but they sure do want it….and will go through all avenues to try to get attention. The SEC should be more concerned about the result fo the Pac 10 or Big 12 scenario. Then based upon that scenario focus on what the big 10 conf does. If big 12 remains together… SEC may not want atm in the conf. It all depends on the Pac and big 12 decision.

A&M fan

June 14th, 2010
12:37 pm

I would love for A&M to make its own way in the SEC. The fans actually travel to road games, folks! So instead of playing in half-filled stadiums in the Pacific northwest, A&M fans could follow the team into packed stadiums across the South every week, and those same fans would travel to College Station. It would be incredible for the local economy!

If you’re the SEC, this is why it makes $$$ and sense:
Add Texas A&M to the West to get a foothold in Texas.
Add FSU to the East to get a stranglehold on Florida.

(These two schools would become SEC east-west permanent rivals, so every year you’d have a great A&M-FSU game to circle on the calendar.)

The added markets and prestige these schools would bring would be worth a big pay upgrade from the TV networks to the SEC.

Dave In Tampa

June 14th, 2010
12:38 pm

I just don’t agree with the Memphis thing. If we go that route I’d rather pick up Louisville than Memphis.

Larry

June 14th, 2010
12:39 pm

Lets keep the South in the the SEC. Lets add Young Harris, North Georgia College, Georgia State and Tennessee Tech.

Anti-alternative

June 14th, 2010
12:40 pm

So ideally we can say that the SEC would’ve wanted Texas, A&M and maybe OK, and OK St. However, if they can settle for just A&M the question has been “who’s next?” or rather “who else fits?”

If it’s based on expanding the TV markets I could see them going for West Virginia to add to the East while A&M adds to the West.

IF 16 are needed then I think it’s anyone’s guess. Tough to break up Tobacco Road, though UNC would make sense alone (not with anyone else on “the road”). VT would be a nice addition, but the ACC is where they were dying to play for years while they were in the Big East. Also may have a forced tie-in with UVA. FSU and GT are natural geographic and historic rivals (but can we assume history counts for anything in the neo-SEC driven by dollars?) Clemson is another geographic and historic rival but does not have quite the winning history of the last two teams mentioned. Louisville may be an option. So may Cincy.

I think the smartest option for the SEC if 16 becomes the new 12 is to add A&M out West to shore up Arkansas’ rivalry cache and then take FSU, GT and Clemson. Of those all have strong enough bases to build better football programs on. All are rivals (which add hype and hopefully TV viewership). They strengthen the Southeastern brand image. They add some academic clout (maybe Tech and Clemson more so than FSU). They all bring strong basketball programs (if that even counts in all this…Kansas, I’m lookin’ at you). But first and foremost they lock up recruiting soil from other conferences further purifying the SEC product.

I’m sure Slive will have his own tricks, though.

P-Man

June 14th, 2010
12:40 pm

Nice to see the discussion remain civil. This is what a blog SHOULD be!

Purple Tiger

June 14th, 2010
12:41 pm

Bring back Sewanee into the SEC! The first great southern team.

T3

June 14th, 2010
12:42 pm

If the ACC can DOUBLE their TV revenue WITHOUT adding any new teams, then surely the BIG12 can at least QUADRUPLE their TV revenue without the need for the PAC10.

The BIG12 doesnt need the PAC10 to get big new TV contract dollars. The BIG12 can demand way more TV money the PAC10 can ever hope for.

The PAC10 needs the Big12 more than the Big12 needs the PAC10, and THATS why theres not gonna be a PAC10/BIG12 mereger.

The 2 best scenarios for the BIG12 are these:

1. Add AZ & AZST

AZ & AZST would earn much larger sums of money in the BIG12 than they could EVER EVER hope to earn in the PAC10. Period.
Theres NO comparison…AT ALL.

2. Add two of the following: Houston, TCU, SMU, UTEP, NewMex, NewMexSt.

With some combo of TCU, SMU, UTEP, or Houston, it would be adding money to Texas-based schools, which be a huge benefit to the state university sytem of Texas.

Houston is the 3rd largest university behind ONLY Texas and aTm.

UTEP & Houston are STATE schools. TCU & SMU are PRIVATE schools.

So, UTEP & Houston would be the MOST likely in-sate choices.

However, SMU football IS HUUUUGE is Dallas, MUCH MUCH bigger than TCU.

Overall, the BIG12 can hit the TV jackpot without the PAC10.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
12:43 pm

Check this funny note from an LSU fan to Aggie (http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/messagetopic.asp?p=19891655), and be prepared to laugh!

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
12:44 pm

What is with the aggies trying to claim such greatness. The SEC is the best football conference. It is what it is.. Big 12 is a runner up to the SEC but the gap is huge.
HOW MANY BIG 12 conf champ games have the aggies played since the big 12 formed????
Answer= 0, zero, zero
Now they think they will be a player in a tougher SEC conf.??????

Anti-alternative

June 14th, 2010
12:46 pm

Purple Tiger, out of curiosity, which breed of purple tiger are you? There are two as I’m sure you’re aware. They both play in Death Valley and both are quite loud and proud. The difference seems to be that only one type can beat Georgia Tech.

Purple Tiger

June 14th, 2010
12:47 pm

The ORIGINAL Purple Tiger!

Tigers, Tigers, leave ‘em in the lurch,

Down with the heathen, up with the church.

Yea, Sewanee’s right!

How2fish

June 14th, 2010
12:51 pm

A&M fan love the idea of you guys in the West and adding FSU to the East…great idea!

It's about the QUALITY stupid!

June 14th, 2010
12:51 pm

There’s no way I thought Slive would try to add more than one team to the West, like just A&M or just Oklahoma. Adding two teams out west is NOT worth the havoc of then having to move Auburn to the east division. And lord knows adding Missouri is not worth that trouble.

If he adds two to the west, he’ll have to add two to the east – most likely FSU and Clemson, which at least feel like SEC schools. Of course, tradition and geography are out the dang window with regard to this stupid expansion talk. I would mind adding just FSU (to the WEST) and Clemson (east), but the talking heads say that adds too little value to the league. I guess their measure of value is different than mine. A strong BRAND is what has made this league a success, not having two teams in Mississippi to wrap up the Jackson and Tupelo markets.

CBS, ESPN and people across the country are only interested in the quality of the dang product!!

Anti-alternative

June 14th, 2010
12:51 pm

My apologies, sir. I was unaware such an ancient breed existed. I was taught they were extinct.

It's about the QUALITY stupid!

June 14th, 2010
12:55 pm

Meant to say I wouldn’t mind adding Clemson and FSU — great products despite not adding to the stupid “footprint.”

Dostoyevskiy

June 14th, 2010
12:55 pm

SEC fans better hope that FSU doesn’t join their conference. That’s all they need to draw even better players. FSU is magnet for prep fb-ers. They would soon dominate the SEC. UGa and Tn would be like old men sitting on the back row in church.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
12:58 pm

Now the flow of the comments on TexAgs.com is turning to fears that the Whorns/Sips AKA UTexas has, in pledging to the Big12-2 (or “Little 10″) pulled the wool over enough of the Aggies’ powers-that-be that the Aggies might not come to the SEC after all….

IF that were to happen, and the Big12-2 were to exist with A&M, then the Aggies know they would be the butt of perhaps the biggest Aggie joke ever (i.e., falling for the Sips’ scheme).

I hope not, but maybe it will happen.

See this story about Gene Stallings’ comments, just posted in the LA Times: http://www.latimes.com/sports/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-big-12-texas,0,7909558.story

Big 10

June 14th, 2010
12:59 pm

Wow. An expansion of a double dose of viagra proportions.

Keep the SEC in the southeast

June 14th, 2010
12:59 pm

Texas can keep driving their bus and stay out of the SEC.

Dostoyevskiy

June 14th, 2010
12:59 pm

Listen up, you aren’t listening. UVa is just as linked with UNC as Duke, NCState, and Wake are. Nobody from the ACC is going anywhere. Insanity is the repetition of failed thinking, and therefore characterizes many on this blog.

CAFEEJ

June 14th, 2010
1:03 pm

Link to Baltimore Sun blog about Maryland going to the Big 10.

CAFEEJ

June 14th, 2010
1:03 pm

CrackDaddy

June 14th, 2010
1:04 pm

The ACC doesn’t live or die for sports. Most ACC chools are known at least equally for their academics. The SEC schools (less Vandy) are known outside of their states exclusively in terms of football. SEC schools have earned their stereotype. They are not bad schools, their student bodies cannot learn more than those schools can teach. But if you want to reach higher, you don’t go to SEC schools as a rule. Their are some exceptions obviously.

Greensboro, Georgia

June 14th, 2010
1:05 pm

……………………………………….
……Nesbitt for Heisman……..
……………………………………….

Don Adams

June 14th, 2010
1:09 pm

Have youtold your readers about the AAU, a group of 63 elite research universities, and the fact that the Big Ten is the only conference where all members are AAU members. Without that fit, Nebraska likely would not have been accepted. Or maybe that would look too bad for the SEC academically.

A&M vs. FSU

June 14th, 2010
1:09 pm

Techman

June 14th, 2010
1:10 pm

didn’t the aggies play as the big 12 rep in the first Fiesta BCS game? That would make them the Big 12 champion that year.

Techman

June 14th, 2010
1:12 pm

about this AAU idea, do schools get more funds if they are linked in a conference with more AAU members?

aggie94

June 14th, 2010
1:13 pm

Aggies 1998 Big 12 champ. One and only for A&M (football). It was a big upset of Kansas State…long time ago too long for most Ags I know.

Techman

June 14th, 2010
1:15 pm

thanks, Aggie. i thought I read on page 2 that Texas a&m had never won a B12 championship.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
1:15 pm

Techman -

As I noted earlier, GT is an AAU member, and is therefore on the Big10’s possible expansion list (because of that and the TV eyeballs in Atlanta). Here’s a link to the AAU’s website, at the About page:
http://www.aau.edu/about/default.aspx?id=58

Steve

June 14th, 2010
1:16 pm

Paul in RDU,
I’ve got to agree with you (no way UNC & Dook come to the SEC).
Neither has a strong football program. However there is no denying the B’ball revenue both of these universities bring to the table. No way the ACC allows that money to walk. They also have strong inter-state rivalries with NCSU & Wake Forest. ACC makes a large portion of it’s money via B’ball revenue. I don’t see them releasing the 2 golden geese without one heck of a fight.

Big Ten man

June 14th, 2010
1:16 pm

AAU, AAU, AAU, more research money, more research money, AAU, and academics.

Sorry, I’ve only had a few years to practice reciting these talking points. I’ll get better at it though and be able to provide more specifics as time goes on.

Dr. Emmett Brown

June 14th, 2010
1:17 pm

Check out my “Back to the Future” conference re-alignment scenario.
Long-standing rivalries would be maintained, and 8 divisional winners would advance to the national playoffs:

ACC East: ACC South:
Boston College Duke
Cincinnati Maryland
Louisville NC St.
Pitt UNC
Rutgers Virginia
South Florida Virginia Tech
Syracuse Wake Forest
Uconn West Virginia

Big 10 East: Big 10 West:
Illinois Baylor
Indiana Iowa
Michigan Iowa St.
Michigan St. Kansas
Northwestern Kansas St.
Notre Dame Minnesota
Ohio St. Missouri
Penn St. Nebraska
Purdue Wisconsin

PAC 10 SW: PAC 10 West:
Arizona Cal
Arizona St. Oregon
Colorado Oregon St.
Ok St. Stanford
Oklahoma UCLA
Texas USC
Texas Tech Wash St.
TX A&M Washington

SEC East: SEC West:
Clemson Alabama
Florida Arkansas
GA Tech Auburn
Georgia Florida St.
Kentucky LSU
Miami Mississippi
South Carolina Mississippi St.
Tennessee Vanderbilt

andrew

June 14th, 2010
1:19 pm

If T A&M joins the SEC, it would almost force the SEC to expand to 16. First, you would need another school for the western division (Southern Miss, Memphis, Missouri, North Texas…someone). Second, you would then have to bump up the east by two schools (Louisville, Miami, GT, FSU, Middle Tenn, ECU…someone). Some would say they would stop at 14, but that would almost certainly require a division switch for someone, which I think is unlikely (especially considering how balanced the divisions are now). Let’s make a case for some schools:

Memphis: Pros: Large University with a large stadium, moderate TV market, would also greatly boost SEC basketball: Cons: Memphis is still dominated by UTK, there would also be TV rights issues with both Arkansas and Ole Miss

Southern Miss: Pros: Good program, very consistent, natural rival to MSU and Ole Miss: Cons: MSU and Ole Miss would likely halt any agreement, Hattiesburg is not exactly a big market

Missouri: Pros: Large, well known school, good program, already plays with A&M, would be rival for Arkansas, and would bring in the Missouri Market. Cons: Not really “south” (yes, this should matter), Closer to Kansas City than St. Louis, really different football culture.

North Texas: Pros: near Dallas, second largest school in Texas (yep, look it up), would be natural rival to A&M and Arkansas. Cons: Currently plays in Sun Belt (yeah, sun belt…), would take several years to recover from transition, always considered a second tier school in Texas

Louisville: Pros: Large program, large school, large market, natural rival for Kentucky, good in several sports, could immediately contend: Cons: They just switched conferences a couple of years back, probably a better fit for Big 10, Kentucky would kick and scream

Clemson: not even going to bother….that’s not going to happen

GT/FSU: Not going to happen either

Miami: Pros: Good program, big market, natural rival with florida, is rebuilding well: Cons: just switched conferences, Football is the only sport it really has, scandal prone

Middle Tenn: (don’t laugh yet) Pros: growing program, growing school, growing area, 2nd largest univeristy in Tenn (1st depending on which list you look at. Yeah, hard to believe), natural rival to UT and Vandy Cons: Vandy and Tenn would not allow it, would not add a significant market tv wise, stadium just plain sucks

Oklahoma/Oklahoma State: Don’t kid yourself, they go with Texas, where ever that may be in the end.

Kansas/Kansas State: Too far away, no real rivalry possibility, would have to get Missiouri with one of them to make it work.

UVA/Va Tech: would have to get them both to work, not likely to happen

So there we have it. Good luck with expansion and the continued money corruption of college sports

Dr. Emmett Brown

June 14th, 2010
1:20 pm

Check out my “Back to the Future” conference re-alignment scenario.
Long-standing rivalries among current BCS schoolls would be maintained, and 8 divisional winners would advance to the national playoffs:

ACC East
Boston College
Cincinnati
Louisville
Pitt
Rutgers
South Florida
Syracuse
Uconn

ACC South
Duke
Maryland
NC St.
UNC
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest
West Virginia

Big 10 East
Illinois
Indiana
Michigan
Michigan St.
Northwestern
Notre Dame
Ohio St.
Penn St.
Purdue

Big 10 West
Baylor
Iowa
Iowa St.
Kansas
Kansas St.
Minnesota
Missouri
Nebraska
Wisconsin

PAC 10 SW
Arizona
Arizona St.
Colorado
Ok St.
Oklahoma
Texas
Texas Tech
TX A&M

PAC 10 West
Cal
Oregon
Oregon St.
Stanford
UCLA
USC
Wash St.
Washington

SEC East
Clemson
Florida
GA Tech
Georgia
Kentucky
Miami
South Carolina
Tennessee

SEC West
Alabama
Arkansas
Auburn
Florida St.
LSU
Mississippi
Mississippi St.
Vanderbilt

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
1:21 pm

Can any dawg fan on here or any AU or Bama or UT fan stand it if we lose any more rivalries such as Bama-UT or AU-UGA?

A 14 team conference is fine with A&M and maybe someone like FSU/VT coming in the east. Everyone loses one of their pansy noncon games and just picks up one more division game and we leave alone rivalries like BAMA-UT AU-UGA.

I don’t think I could stand losing any more rivalries like that and as it stands now if we go to 14 teams rivalries like Bama/UGA would be played twice in 12 years as opposed to 4 times every 10 years. It would become like playing a total stranger if we played someone like Georgia that sparingly. And I can’t see the dawg fans being happy about that either. Same thing throughout the sec. All these great interdivison clashes like BAMB/UF, AU/UF, BAMA/UGA, UGA/LSU, that get played 4 of every 10 years are now 2 in every 12 years.

Tech Fan Since 1950

June 14th, 2010
1:25 pm

Atlanta is primarily an ACC/SEC city, but there is a large contingent of Big Ten school alumni in the metro. I think GT will stay in the ACC, but if the Big Ten were really smart strategically they would tap into the 8th television market in the country and establish a beachhead in Atlanta. If GT gets invited to the Big Ten and accepts, the SEC will have made its biggest blunder ever.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
1:26 pm

Patrick

June 14th, 2010
1:26 pm

Tony, Is the PAC 16 guaranteed two BCS spots if they go to 16? As an SEC fan that would be the number two reason to expand the SEC.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
1:28 pm

Your right Aggie94
One conference title in 1998. Against Kansas State… Even Colorado got one Conference game. Albeit.. I was wrong stating zero…

It is one conference title and that was last decade of the 19 hundreds.

How many BCS bowl games since the claim to fame 1998? Better yet how many bowl games? Considering that even losing record football programs make bowl games.

atm should schedule some teams like FSU in an ooc. The power schools like Florida, Texas and alabama schedule some cupcakes but they at least every other year make it interesting. Texas played Ohio State, Arkansas… atm plays a divions 2 team or a div 1 equal.

atm does not bring any fooball value to the SEC. It seems a lot of people want atm to goto the SEC..

Delbert D.

June 14th, 2010
1:29 pm

Deloss Dodds of the University of Texas is going to want to see some bonds in Beebe’s possession instead of IOUs, and he’ll probably have the portable UV scanner to check any cash he presents as well.

CrackDaddy

June 14th, 2010
1:29 pm

Yo Tony. What would be the advantages and disadvantages of UGa joining the ACC. Would their football program suffer? Or might it be even stronger. Would UGa’s academic prowess be strengthened by such a move in your opinion? If so, then why would they eschew an invite if it were offered? Man up Tony.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
1:32 pm

SEC nation.. Please take atm… They really want to get out of the shadow of Big Brother TExas. However, they still want to play Texas every year.. Does that make any sense? If aggies really want to be independent of Texas… then dont beg to play every year.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
1:32 pm

Patrick -

About your question to Tony: Is the PAC 16 guaranteed two BCS spots if they go to 16? As an SEC fan that would be the number two reason to expand the SEC.

Agreed.

The BCS is not required to do anything of the sort, but virtually all of the Pac16 stories over the past couple of weeks have said that the Pac16 would not only seek two BCS slots, but to give them to each of its division champs, because the Pac16 apparently would NOT want a playoff. Some reports have said that, in addition, the Pac16 would seek a THIRD BCS bid, which would be one of the at-large bids.

Even the mere specter of that sort of power play by a superconference is why Slive has had to be pro-active in this realignment mess, and at least have countermoves (see capstone report link above) ready to go, if not actual invitations ready to go (A&M, VT?), to get to 14 or 16 teams. I’m pretty sure Slive’s constituents (the SEC presidents & ADs) don’t want the SEC to go to 16 teams, but for the many reasons stated on this blog, 14 makes good sense, especially if A&M is one of the 14.

Traditionalist

June 14th, 2010
1:33 pm

Why is no one talking about bringing Sewanee back to the SEC where it belongs?

Gary

June 14th, 2010
1:34 pm

Yeppie – A&M won the Big 12 in 1998 and won the Big 12 South in 1997. No they haven’t won anything significant in a while, but they are not a bad product. The fan base is also very good. Had fun chatting up some of the Aggie fans back in December as both A&M and the Dawgs prepared to do battle.

Delbert D.

June 14th, 2010
1:34 pm

“Mike Slive winning the realignment game:”

Just thought I’d point out that that is University of Alabama fans sports blog.

Dave In Tampa

June 14th, 2010
1:34 pm

Tide Rising
I’m with you. I do not want to see any of the great rivalries go away. Two teams tops to expand the league. I’d like to see OU & A&M. If not OU grab A&M and VT. No more though. SEC does not need to go to 16 teams.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
1:35 pm

Delbert.. That is funny. Your right. UV scanner with a permanent ink pen. With CBS, FOX, ESPN, ABC, etc.. aiding with video recording of the proposal.

Gary

June 14th, 2010
1:38 pm

And don’t forget that RC Slocum had a pretty good program in the 1990s. I believe the Aggies won several SWC Titles in the early 90s. Since he left the program has suffered.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
1:39 pm

Gary…
Your right. atm is a good product. That battle was short lived with Georgia. I think everyone in Texas turned off the TV after Georgia went to the second team players to keep the game interesting.

T3

June 14th, 2010
1:39 pm

Well, looks like Goldman Sachs has made a multi-billion dollar bet that the State of California will suffer a “financial earthquake” soon.

AZ & AZST better call Dan Beebe and beg to join the BIG12 before California impldes and takes the PAC10 down with it.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
1:40 pm

RC Slocum… was a very good coach. However, enter Mack Brown in the late 1990 and good bye Slocum..

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
1:43 pm

atm has an enormous potential. They are the upset queens some years. Running from the coat tails of Texas will not make them a better product. Would love to see atm join the SEC. They can run from Texas but to hide in the SEC???? not a good hiding place…

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
1:46 pm

Dave in Tampa—-

No Memphis in the SEC. We already have our Tiger quota.

5IML

June 14th, 2010
1:47 pm

Yeppie,

The underhanded, backstabbing Dennis Francione got rid of RC Slocum. I’m not saying that Mack would not have run Slocum off eventually.

Delbert D.

June 14th, 2010
1:48 pm

Dr. Brown – Louisville, South Florida and West Virginia are not acceptable by the ACC, as they are Tier 3. Also, I wouldn’t think the SEC would take them, as they already have 2 Tier 3 teams in Ole Miss and Miss. St. (plus UK, LSU and Arkansas sharing the lowest ranking at #128 in the tier above. That would not be a good PR move, not even in the states of Georgia, Florida and South Carolina press.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
1:49 pm

Texas A&M is like Florida was 30 years ago. So much under-utilized potential. They have all of the pieces, they just need a good coach and recruiter and the Aggies are off to the races.

This Gator votes “aye.”

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
1:49 pm

Perhaps a bit too “inside baseball” for some here, but for those of us who have wondered at the conflicting reports the past few days, this is funny:

Schad v. Chip, as told by EDSBS: http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/2010/6/14/1517299/tale-of-the-tape-schad-vs-brown

Paul in RDU

June 14th, 2010
1:50 pm

Delbert – I believe that Beebe told UT that the money was good because he had taken out insurance with AIG

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
1:51 pm

51ML
Yes Francione… He is no longer at atm either. Fancione.. lost every game that atm was a sure win and and won the games he was sure to lose. Perhaps, he playing the betting the odds market in Vegas….

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
1:52 pm

Delbert D.

June 14th, 2010
1:54 pm

Atlanta Gator – “No Memphis in the SEC. We already have our Tiger quota.”

Yeah, but you don’t have your Tier 4 quota. This is a rare opportunity to grab one.

;-)

Paul in RDU

June 14th, 2010
1:54 pm

fbfan – Great link!

DGator

June 14th, 2010
1:56 pm

In my perfect world, I would have TX and Ta&m join the west and North Carolina and UVA or VaTech join the east. From a TV standpoint, you get all of TX, the 2nd most populist state and with UVA or VaTech you get VA and DC area, another top 10 TV market and NC gives you all of Carolina TV. Screw FSU and Miami, Gators control the TV in FL, Miami and FSU are a TV afterthought. If Carolina can get over not being in the same BBall conference with Duke and realize that they can still play them non-conference every year, it would definitely be in their best interest to be in the new SEC that would be the best conference for football AND basketball with the new additions.

From a purist standpoint, I think FSU and Clemson have the most in common with the SEC but they just don’t bring anything to the table that we don’t already have.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
1:56 pm

Delbert D.—-

In addition to adding nothing to the SEC bottom line, Florida would object to inviting South Florida into the SEC. For the Gators, promoting the Bulls into a credible regional program would harm Florida’s interests. The Gators do not need to help promote a third major Division I competitor in the state. As things stand now, the Bulls pick up a lot of the 2 and 3-star kids who may have had academic issues getting into Florida. We do not need to build USF into a real competitor who can poach on the in-state 4 and 5-star talent. We already have FSU and Miami as established in-state competitors; USF and UCF are not real threats at their present level of competition. Moreover, does the SEC really want to add a Tier 3 directional school? I think not.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
1:56 pm

Paul in RDU -

EDSBS stretches the limits of entertainment, sometimes a bit too far for my taste, but it is ALWAYS funny!

Delbert D.

June 14th, 2010
1:57 pm

T3 – What?? Goldman Sachs selling short?? No way!

Paul in RDU – Beebe would be more believable if he had the gecko or the cave man with him.

Delbert D.

June 14th, 2010
2:02 pm

DGator –

“In my perfect world, I would have TX and Ta&m join the west and North Carolina and UVA or VaTech join the east.”

I missed that episode on Fringe.

Delbert D.

June 14th, 2010
2:09 pm

Atlanta Gator – You are right. The only factor I can think of that would favor South Florida is they have a real airport. But then I’ve only flown there from Atlanta, so I don’t know if connections and or bus trips are needed from the other 5 or so airport schools in the SEC.

TexasDAWG

June 14th, 2010
2:10 pm

I heard on the local San Antonio News that Texas will NOT consider the SEC because the “academics are so bad.” The example used was Alabama (not mine the reporters). The reporter said that the admissions/academics at Bama are so low that Texas would never consider joining the SEC. Is this true? Is TEXAS that much “better” at academics than the rest of the SEC? I know A LOT of morons that get into and graduate from UT. I really find it hard to believe that UT is in the league as UC-Berkly.

DGator

June 14th, 2010
2:10 pm

DD, It probably won’t happen but I am sure the calls have been made, from a TV and logistics standpoint, it makes the most sense.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
2:11 pm

Delbert D.—-

I won’t name-call among existing SEC members, but the conference has already filled its Tier 3 quota. We have 78 years of shared history with the two Mississippi schools, and they are major state universities, but for future expansion, the SEC should be targeting flagship public universities that have strong athletics and at least respectable academics. Texas A&M more than fills that bill. So would Missouri, Florida State, Virginia Tech, Clemson. West Virginia? Memphis? Not so much. Maybe Louisville, but my enthusiasm is very tempered, and only as a last resort to get to an even number after 3 other stronger candidates have accepted.

Oil Money U

June 14th, 2010
2:12 pm

Anyone else find it interesting that the west coast, liberal Pac-10 wants oil-money schools like Texas and Oklahoma State? I know they don’t really care about Oklahoma State…but they sure do care about Texas. Guess they’re all about the almighty dollar, just like everyone else.

Delbert D.

June 14th, 2010
2:13 pm

fbfan and Paul in RDU –
First time I’ve seen that EDSBS site. Looks like a sports version of The Onion.

“Holy —-! Man on —-ing Moon!” One of the funniest fake front page headline articles of all time.

collegeballfan

June 14th, 2010
2:14 pm

I cannot believe Texas will allow the Big 12 to dissolve and join the PAC 10/16. The Big 12 can add TCU and Houston and be a better conference than before Colo & Neb left for “greener pastures”.

And how big a vote does ESPN get in the proceedings? In the past TV money has been the deciding factor.

Clem Gryska

June 14th, 2010
2:15 pm

I suggest those “reporters” consult the latest APR concerning Alabama

Tom

June 14th, 2010
2:17 pm

Tide Rising,

If we went to 14, we would go from playing the other 5 non-permanent opponents from the other division twice every five years…to playing the other 6 non-permanent opponents from the other division twice every six years. Really not that big of a difference.

Of course, I’m assuming the number of conference games would increase to 9 (as most think it will).

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
2:18 pm

TEXASDwag.
Here is the academic info as a resource. It is dominated by ivy league, Michigan, Texas and pac 10/ACC schools. For the most part.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools

Delbert D.

June 14th, 2010
2:20 pm

Atlanta Gator –
“I won’t name-call among existing SEC members, but the conference has already filled its Tier 3 quota.”

Oops…I already did that. But you know from my memoirs posted last night that I am an extremist pointy-headed academic aristocrat. The fact that I spent 14 years on my Bachelor’s degree is a testiment to dedication to the pursuit of excellence.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
2:20 pm

Delbert D. -

EDSBS is the “child” of Spencer Hall, who used to use the pen-name of Orson Swindle before he … well, before he became … well, once upon a time he used to call himself that.

I think, if memory serves, Orson/Spencer is a Gator alum living in the greater ATL, but he’s not overly Gator-centric, FWIW. What’s fascinating about his site is how he keeps things interesting all year long.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
2:23 pm

Florida is the most prestigious SEC for academics. As stated by another person… The ACC sent its sacificial lambs to the SEC already. The quota has been met. No decent school would lower academics requirements… would do a lateral academic.

Tom

June 14th, 2010
2:23 pm

Yeppie,

You linked the grad school rankings. That’s not really what this is all about.

As far as national university undergraduate rankings go, Texas is tied with Florida at 47 and Florida is ranked 2nd in the SEC behind Vandy. I guess Texas thinks they’re a bunch of idiots and wouldn’t want to be part of conference where they tie for 2nd in academics.

The truth is, the bottom half of the Pac 10 (Wash St, Oregon, Oregon St, AZ, AZ St) is no better than the bottom half of the SEC. It’s just that the top half of the Pac 10 (UCLA, USC, Cal, Stanford, and Washington) is a few notches above the top half of the SEC (Vandy, Fla, UGA, Auburn, and Bama). Can’t really dispute that, so the Pac 10 is a stronger academic conference. Just not as much as some people think (or want people to think).

ryan

June 14th, 2010
2:24 pm

Texas and Oklahoma are not PAC 10 schools i just do not see how its going to work those schools traveling to Washington state and OR and even northern California it is going cost to a lot of money and also pull those students out of class. These presidents don’t care about education.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
2:25 pm

Here comes the DIVA of college football–That would be POLITICS.
Legislature in Texas is getting involved. That will delay any clarity to any alignment. The time bomb got more days before it gets reset again. This saga will go on for weeks….

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
2:28 pm

MrSEC report just in: http://www.mrsec.com/2010/06/texas-site-tweaks-report-espn-doesnt-nyt-jumps-in/

Note how Texas, A&M, and OU would be treated better than the rest … and wonder at how the other seven schools would like those terms ….

Typical Texas power-play, which is why the SEC and Pac10 should want nothing to do with the Austin sippers….

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
2:28 pm

Tom
Like any ranking or report. The criteria that the research or rates can be fixed to any menu. I take research given can be slanted.. Always have to look at the criteria at which the focus of the hypotheis is derivied with the variables percentage of gain to yield the conclusion.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
2:31 pm

I should have added that it seems to still be up in the air whether A&M will go along with the Big12-2 scheme hatched overnight by Texas. Pretty clear from the A&M boards that if it does go along, its alums will be perhaps 80% against it. They’ve been so excited to be courted by the SEC and want to come to the SEC instead of continuing to be the diss’ed tag-along of the Whorns….

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
2:32 pm

TOM..
You may want to link at the again. Look at the top business schools, top law schools, top medical schools, top engineering schools.

The rankings overall can be made to slant by whoever selects a criteria. Break down the “nuts and bolts” by segment.

5IML

June 14th, 2010
2:33 pm

Yeppie,

Fran got everything he deserved at aTm. He is second only to Phat Phil on the list of BAMA’s most hated villains.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
2:34 pm

This just posted on TexAgs, assuming the Big12-2 deal is on, with A&M involved in it:

“For the first time in a while, you had an energized fanbase that was truly excited about the prospects of our future. You were going to have us in a great conference where we were wanted. You were going to separate us from the shadow of Texas.

And now, you are going to give that all up. I hope you understand the backlash that will happen with this. Empty seats, fewer season ticket holders, low television ratings, and less money.

This is a decision that will impact our great University for years to come. Please make the right decision and join the SEC.

Sincerely,
Texas A&M current students, fans, and alumni.”

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
2:34 pm

Crackdaddy—-

Get back to me during ACC basketball season. With the exception of Duke and UNC, the ACC’s scholarship basketball players do not even begin to measure up to the comments you just made about the SEC’s football teams.

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
2:34 pm

Dave in Tampa,

Its pretty much just you, me, and alphare that are worried about the loss of even more rivalries or reducing great rivalries that are played 4 times in 10 years to twice in 12 years. I don’t think its dawned on some fans yet on just how much we give up in the way of reduced or eliminated rivalries.

Atlanta gator pointed out that if we add 2 teams that there is a likelihood of AU and Bama moving to the east. I would welcome that but its also a given that with Bama, AU, UGA, UF, UT all in one division plus interdivisional games against teams like LSU that the east division would be a bloodbath. It would be incredibly difficult for anyone in the east to go unbeaten and get into the bcs title game. That schedule doesn’t even factor in games like South Carolina and UK which lately have been pulling some upsets here and there and 2 tough west division opponents like say LSU and Ark in any given year. In that scenario I think the west would be pretty weak with say LSU as the only powerful team and a bunch of middling teams like Ark, Ole miss, and A&M which hasn’t done a whole lot in years and years. There would be a super imbalance between the strength of the east vs the west.

Bottom line is that there is no easy answer and some of us are going to be mighty upset over losing a lot of these rivalries or reducing them to twice in 12 years.

Talking Rock Comm

June 14th, 2010
2:35 pm

I think the PAC 16 would limit the crossover games to the other side of the conference so travel cost’ would be similar to what they are now in the Big 12 so it’s a push on increased travel money.

The SEC should add Tex AM and then go after Va Tech or Louisville.

Dave In Tampa

June 14th, 2010
2:38 pm

Tide Rising – Agreed!

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
2:38 pm

51ML
Fran and Kiffin got what they deserved. I bet kiffin was paying reggie bush rent while he was an assistant at USC.. LOL…

Delbert D.

June 14th, 2010
2:41 pm

Tom –
“The truth is, the bottom half of the Pac 10 (Wash St, Oregon, Oregon St, AZ, AZ St) is no better than the bottom half of the SEC.

I agree.
The PAC-10 bottom “5″ (4) average is 111 (couldn’t count the 1 unranked school.)
The SEC bottom 6 (4) average is 120 (couldn’t count the 2 unranked schools.)

Hold on a minute

June 14th, 2010
2:53 pm

Tide Rising,

If we went to 14 teams and went to 9 conference games instead of 8, we would play the non-permanent opponents in the other division twice every 6 years. Not all that different from the current situation of twice every 5 years.

Delbert D.

June 14th, 2010
2:55 pm

orangebloods.com partial quote:

“Also, the new television package WILL mean more money for Texas, Texas A&M and Oklahoma than it will for the little guys of the league. Those schools should stand to make $20 million from the new deal. “The other seven schools in the Big 12 would make between $14 million and $17 million, but would nearly double what they currently receive.””

This is a “beggars and looters” scenario. I hope all of the college football talk between now and the end of August is not about antitrust violations.

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
2:57 pm

Hold on a minute,

If that is correct and it goes to twice every 6 years instead of twice every 5 years then I could easily live with that. I just heard twice in 12 years several times and for me as well as a lot of other fans that just wouldn’t work.

Ron Mexico

June 14th, 2010
3:00 pm

GeezusDawg

June 14th, 2010
3:00 pm

It would be hilarious if Iowa St and Kansas State bolted for the MWC – just when the Big 12 thought it was safe, the after-thoughts pull a power play.

Hold on a minute

June 14th, 2010
3:00 pm

Tide Rising,

It is correct. Of course, we would have to increase the number of conference games by 1. The twice in 12 years is if we leave the number of conference games at 8.

I think if we expand to 14, we definitely go with the additional conference game.

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
3:03 pm

Atlanta gator,

You mentioned Mizzou as a possiblity but doesn’t that violate the tiger quota?

just kidding of course but Mizzou would be a good fit for a few reasons. They border 2 sec states if my geography memory serves me correctly(ark and tenn I think) and they would bring 2 large tv markets in St. Louis and Kansas City.

Mizzou, like A&M has underachieved but maybe joining the sec would help them get over the hump. With 2 large cities for recruiting and being the only game in town similar to LSU in LA. I consider Mizzou as a program that has potential but for whatever reason has never been able to fully tap it. Maybe joining the sec would get it done for them.

Huh?

June 14th, 2010
3:04 pm

If the Pac-16 limits the crossover games, then it isn’t really a conference. It’s a loose affiliation of schools.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
3:07 pm

Wow. Nine-game SEC schedule followed by the SEC championship game for the division champions. Everyone will be looking froward to games against Kentucky, Ole Miss, Mississippi State and Vanderbilt. Heck, with a nine-game SEC schedule, the Florida-Georgia game may be treated as week off. LOL

Hold on a minute

June 14th, 2010
3:07 pm

Tide,

Sorry to keep correcting you bud but Mizzou actually borders 3 SEC states (Ark, Tenn, and KY). Granted, the Tenn and KY borders aren’t that long.

I like the Mizzou idea too.

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
3:08 pm

Hold on for a minute,

Then that would work for me and everyone loses one pansy noncon game a year. That would maybe cost us all some money though since we all go from an easy revenue generating home noncon home game every year to a game that is home and home against an sec opponent. I’m not sure how the sec schools would feel about that but I’m just going to assume that financially it must make sense to add another sec game and that the money lost from a permanent home game against a noncon opponent is made up via more television revenue.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
3:08 pm

TR—-

If we take Mizzou, we go all in and taken Clemson, too. We corner the Tigers market, and start the SEC Tigger Division.

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
3:10 pm

Hold on a minute,

My bad. I thought it was at least 2 sec states and of course sometimes I forget that Kentucky is indeed an sec member. Until basketball season comes and then I remember that they are in fact in the sec. Then if they border 3 sec states and are a good tv market it makes even more sense.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
3:10 pm

TR—-

Did they teach geography in Alabama? Much?

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
3:13 pm

atlant gator,

That would be funny. The tigger division with 4 tigger teams. Maybe Mizzou could form a commercial deal with kellogg’s which is probably headquartered in one of those midwestern agricultural states anyway and sign Tony the tiger to a marketing deal. That would be grrrrrrrrreat!

ryan

June 14th, 2010
3:15 pm

Breaking News Texas is staying in the Big 12 Texas is going to get paid around 20 Mill to 25 Mill and will have its own network so all this talk of a super confrence is all but dead.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
3:15 pm

Battle Creek, Michigan, for the geographically impaired.

Aggies staying too?

June 14th, 2010
3:16 pm

Enter your comments here

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
3:16 pm

I just plain forgot about Kentucky. Its easy to do when you’re thinking about football.You guys can understand that can’t you.

Hold on a minute

June 14th, 2010
3:17 pm

Tide,

I know in Georgia’s case, the extra home and home SEC game would take the place of one of the 2 home and homes with a BCS conf opponent that we currently have. Georgia Tech is the permanent one of the 2 and that isn’t going anywhere. But our trips to places such as Tempe, Stillwater, Boulder, Louisville, Clemson, and Eugene would be done. We would still keep the other 2 creampuff home games.

So the net effect to Georgia is basically zero. With that being said, most, if not all, SEC teams do not play 2 home and homes out of conference.

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
3:17 pm

No offense to the mildcats out there.

Tommy Tuberville

June 14th, 2010
3:17 pm

I heard Auburn was jumping to the Sunbelt. Hope so.

Aggies staying too?

June 14th, 2010
3:17 pm

You forgot a tiger

June 14th, 2010
3:17 pm

You forgot about the Memphis Tigers. I really don’t want to extend them an invite. Looks like the Tigger division is dead on arrival

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
3:18 pm

ryan—-

Good. If the Pac-10 Berkeley crowd didn’t want Baptists from Baylor, they’re going to love Mormons from Utah and/or BYU.

= )

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
3:23 pm

Based on Texas’ behavior in strong-arming Nebraska and Texas A&M, and trying to ditch Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State and Missouri, you can just feel the love in the room. Colorado—-gone. Nebraska—-gone. Remaining members angry. Chief rival—-distrustful, and contemplating a separate conference affiliation. I give the whole thing two seasons, tops, assuming it doesn’t go of the rails in the next 7 to 10 days.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
3:25 pm

You forgot a tiger—-

I should have qualified that: “corner the market on Division I major college football Tigers.” We want Tigers, not orange house cats.

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
3:26 pm

I thought Cal-berkeley preached all about inclusiveness, open mindedness, tolerance for other points of view, religions, etc. Or does that not extend to Baptists? Maybe that goes in line though with their views that everyone is equal but that some opinions and views are less equal than others.

Anti-alternative

June 14th, 2010
3:26 pm

AG, then forget Clemson!

Hold on a minute

June 14th, 2010
3:27 pm

ATL Gator, I couldn’t agree more. This is not going to hold together long term, especially with the Pac-10, Big Ten, and SEC looking at expansion.

Hell, it sounds like Texas is still pushing everybody around. I wouldn’t be surprised if A&M still wanted to switch.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
3:28 pm

Tide Rising—-

Yes, when discussing Berkeley, “Animal Farm” does strike me as the proper frame of reference.

5IML

June 14th, 2010
3:28 pm

Looks like it all over (for right) now. Pac10 will had one more and become the Pac12. Big XII is now only X and will not have a championship game. Big 10 is now 12. SEC is still the Best XII.

Anti-alternative

June 14th, 2010
3:28 pm

Tide, exactly. That little “equals” sticker on the back of everyone’s Prius in Berkeley tends to mean you had better not believe in absolute Truth of any kind. Only the “open minded” are equals…everyone else is…non-human I guess? Gimme a football Saturday in the South followed by church on Sunday!

Oil Money U = Texas

June 14th, 2010
3:31 pm

I’m still surprised the liberals on the west coast wanted the king of all oil money schools! I guess their principles are for sale.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
3:32 pm

Anti-alternative—-

Alternatively, we could put Auburn, Clemson, Georgia, Kentucky, LSU, Mississippi State and Mizzou in the same group and call it the “Cats and Dogs Sleeping Together Division.” Add the Gators, and call it the “Snack Time by the Canal Division.”

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
3:32 pm

Well, if Tejas is staying put then all the drama is officially over now. The only question now is if the big 12 will stick with 10 members or recruit 2 more so that they will keep a championship game format. I think you have to have 2 divisions of 6 or more teams to have a championship game according to the ncaa. Pac 10 i think now just needs to invite Utah to get to 12 team status and a championship game and the big 10 is already there. Everything should be good to go now. Anyone think the big 12 will go after 2 more teams or just stick with 10 and play a round robin schedule similar to what the pac 10 has always done?

Anti-alternative

June 14th, 2010
3:37 pm

AG, I’m in. Can we pit my Yellow Jackets against the winner? As a fan in the last 5 years I’ve learned only to take Georgia and LSU seriously out of that group. Then they can go on and get Gator chomped.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
3:37 pm

5IML –

Looking as if you’re right. If 12th Pac team = Utah, then my CU Buffaloes are smiling. Probably wouldn’t be as rich as with a Pac16, but much happier without Texas. ANY league is much, much happier without Texas.

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
3:37 pm

So it looks like out of all this that the big 12 loses 2 schools including a heavyweight in Nebraska and Texas just ends up creating a lot of ill will due to its bullying, pompousness, and arrogance. But at least it looks like they got their big money package and the new texas tv network. Good for you Tejas. Hope it was all worth it.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
3:38 pm

All kidding aside, when the new bubble-gum-spit-and-duct-tape Big XII (X) falls apart again, and the Longhorns come calling, someone remember to tell them that we’ve already accepted Texas A&M and Missouri based on an already-executed option contract. But, it’s all for the best we wouldn’t want them to sully their top-47 ranking among the academically unwashed of the SEC. They can form their own conference with Notre Dame for all I care.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
3:39 pm

“Yellow Jackets are like the buzzing of flies to Albert.”

Paul in RDU

June 14th, 2010
3:41 pm

I like the concept of the Tigger Division – LSU, Auburn, Clemson, Mizzou, Memphis. You’d have to put UK in there to make a full compliment of wild cats

jumbeauxtiger

June 14th, 2010
3:42 pm

I agree with you TR. I don’t want to lose any of our rivalries and if the SEC expands I hope it is only to 14 and not 16.

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
3:42 pm

That sounds like the best idea today. Tejas and ND can form their own 2 team conference.

Anti-alternative

June 14th, 2010
3:43 pm

So if the Big 12 (10) can convince A&M to quit whining and stay then, yeah, I think they’ll try to grab 2 more teams. The question is whether those teams would even listen. The Big 12 wouldn’t seem all that stable, and success doesn’t seem to get you anywhere if your name is not TEXAS (ask TTU, TAMU, OK and OKSU…or Kansas, Mizzou, etc.)

Who would they look at, though? My gut says they should at least try for Utah or BYU, but they seem too far West and might want into the Pac deal. So perhaps shades of the old SWAC come in and you see them talking to Houston, TCU, SMU or perhaps Tulsa. Anyone have other ideas? Hardon-Simmons might listen to an offer.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
3:43 pm

Paul in RDU—-

See comment @3:32 above.

P-Man

June 14th, 2010
3:44 pm

No one’s mentioned this, but if the Big 12 would simply add 2 Texas teams, say Houston and TCU, and move Oklahoma and Oklahoma St to the north, then the balance is actually much better. Of course the problem with the Big 12, as with the Big 10 and Pac 10, is that it is essentially the Big 2 and Little 10.

Anti-alternative

June 14th, 2010
3:47 pm

AG, come on, man. Don’t discount how scary a regular season game against CPJ’s offense could be without time to prepare. I’m not sayin’ we’d win…but it could be fun! Admit it. You’d love to play us again. I think both our student populations are alleged jorts wearers, no?

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
3:48 pm

Well, all this speculation could end soon. Seems like Texas will get its 20-25 mill shared money with qualifiers on top of the revenue and its own TV network.
The BIG LOSER= Pac 10 commish.
SEC= Will not be foreced to react to any PAC movements.
WILD CARD=SEC needs to watch the Big 10 for any movements.

Yes, the big 12 north colleges are going to whine.. However, they would rather get a little bit more money and still have some share of the revenue versus not having a conference.

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
3:49 pm

Anti-alternative,

The 2 Utah teams out west do seem to not be a geographic fit with the big 12 so I can’t see that. Not sure if OU would allow Tulsa to be on equal footing with them and OSU. I don’t think Tejas would object to Houston and tcu though but one of them probably tcu would have to play in the north division. As good as tcu has been they draw very poorly something like 40k a game if that. Same with Houston although some people on here have noted that Houston is a tier 3 school but that they have a large enrollment of something like 35 k. Houston and I think TCU both used to be members of the old swac so maybe they would be welcomed by Tejas and the big 12.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
3:49 pm

Tiger market… That is funny..

jumbeauxtiger

June 14th, 2010
3:50 pm

I guess it doesn’t matter now about the SEC expanding.

Out of all this the Pac-10 only ends up with Colorado and likely Utah. I would say the Pac-10 failed in becoming a power conference and their championship game will be comparable to Conference USA’s.

Anti-alternative

June 14th, 2010
3:50 pm

P-man. Agree. Houston might be more likely than TCU, though. Remember that the MWC just got deeper with BSU added. I think that’s 4 or 5 decent teams for them now? They’ll be getting an AQ bid and upgraded TV deal within two years, methinks. But money is money. TCU may want to take on the Big 12 teams anyway…who knows?!

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
3:52 pm

P-man,

That’s a good idea. That right there would solve the big 12’s problem of getting back to 12 teams and a title game.

Anti-alternative

June 14th, 2010
3:53 pm

Tide, I think we see eye to eye on it.

Houstonians that don’t get into UT, TAMU, or A&M are happy going to UH. The smart ones go to Rice. They all wish they could still play each other in football. Heck, the state of Texas could do alright with a league all its own just like the state of Florida could!

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
3:53 pm

Anti-alternative—-

Got nothing to add on the “jorts” topic. I am Brooks Bros. khaki shorts Gator.

If the Jackets want to play the Gators, give Jeremy Foley a call. I bet he’s in the office today. If you do get on the schedule, tell CPJ to remember to bring the Jackets defense to Gainesville.

P-Man

June 14th, 2010
3:54 pm

BTW, the SWAC still exists. It’s the Southwest Concerence that disbanded.

Anti-alternative

June 14th, 2010
3:55 pm

You’re right. My bad. Used the wrong name I guess.

Tom Osborne was right

June 14th, 2010
3:55 pm

Always heard that Coach O didn’t care for Texas and their strong-arm tactics. Now I understand why the Huskers bolted.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
3:56 pm

Here is SPECULATION-NEW FLASH
6 years from now…
1. SEC unites with Big East
2. Big 12 south unites with ACC – did that for academics (big picture)
Still preserving the tiger market…..
3. Pac and Big 10 unite with the remaining big 12 north and MWC conf teams.

Meanwhile, Ivy league gets big bucks because they taking research funding and patent a more effecient and cost effective form of travel and they make more money than all conferences combined. Thus making the above scenario acceptable for travel.. ahhh..

HA ha ha… Take care..

Compliment to the SEC… excluding academics… Best overall athletic conference.. It is the SEC, then Texas, OU and everyone else..

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
3:57 pm

Out of all this comes the idea that 5 of the 6 bcs conferences now have a playoff for a conference champion. That could get us that much closer to a 4 team playoff. Out of 5 championship games it would be pretty easy to get 4 deserving teams. Of course a 5th team would be left out but in most every year out of 5 championship games factoring in an upset we could probably easily get to 4 deserving teams for a 4 team playoff without a great deal of argument over a 5th team such as a 2 or even 3 loss bcs champion being left out. I really think that this could be the only good thing to come out of all this.

5IML

June 14th, 2010
3:57 pm

I know the rules say you can’t have a conference championship with less than 12 teams but is a championship game mandatory if you have 12 or more? I’m asking because the Pac12 (assuming Utah is added) looks really weak so they might want to avoid a championship game.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
3:59 pm

jumbeauxtiger—-

Yup. With USC banned from post-season play, the inaugural Pac-12 Championship game should draw huge national television rating when they match the Pot-Smoking North Division champion Stanford Pine Trees against the Desert is Effing Hot South Division champion Arizona State Gremlins.

Did anyone watch the ACC championship game last year? I mean, other than the players’ parents?

Anti-alternative

June 14th, 2010
3:59 pm

AG, the jorts thing was a joke. Georgia kids say to both of us all the time. Us for supposedly being nerds and yall for supposedly being…I don’t know…Floridians or something.

I’d love to see GT back with some old SEC rivals Florida being just one. I agree our defense is a scary question this season. I just hope they show up for the big road games and especially in Athens. I’ll say that if our O-line improves, though, our offense could score on most teams in the country. Big D-lines have shut us down in the past 2 seasons. I have no idea how we’d fare if we were thrown into the SEC next season. Fun to think about though.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
4:03 pm

Anti-alternative—-

Yes, I know it was a joke. I was kidding, too. Kinda.

= )

Anti-alternative

June 14th, 2010
4:04 pm

AG, I was hoping the new Pac 16’s divisional matchup would be named something like the “Left versus Right game” or “Foam versus Suds” or “Bambi versus Godzilla”…wait, is that one taken?

5IML

June 14th, 2010
4:05 pm

ESPN has updated their site to say Texas is “considering” staying in the Big XII. I guess Orangebloods.com won the battle with big, bad ESPN. I wonder how Schad feels right now.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
4:05 pm

On thing is certain about all of this realignment chaos: I have gained a newfound respect for Tom Osborne.

Don’t mess with Nebraska.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
4:06 pm

I’ve already seen that move. Ever seen “Bambi’s Revenge?”

Anti-alternative

June 14th, 2010
4:08 pm

No. Intriguing…sounds like YouTube time…

P-Man

June 14th, 2010
4:11 pm

Both of those movies are hilarious!

No, a conference is not required to have a championship game with 12 teams.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
4:14 pm

Forgot to add.
Texas atm claims “temporary insanity” and deny the scenario existed.

Take care bloggers and it seems some changes will happen but some things never change. The only thing that should change in college football is everyone should have green grass/turf. Boise State blue turf ought to be a violation and disrepect to the game of football.

Anti-alternative

June 14th, 2010
4:16 pm

Bambi reminds me of an interesting question I once had after a beer…with all the hunting that goes on in the South how did no team end up with a mascot and logo like Browning’s? Seems like if a team like Colorado uses a buffalo (which is easy to shoot, stands there and dies) then someone would have chosen a Buck at some point. Odd. Or maybe a Moose in the NorthWest…

John Doe

June 14th, 2010
4:16 pm

So is it safe to say this new version of the Big 12 will be even more slanted towards the University of Texas?

I think Nebraska and Colorado are chuckling to themselves at this (and glad they got out).

Anti-alternative

June 14th, 2010
4:18 pm

JD, Nebraska is definitely the winner in this one so far. UPGRADE!

John Doe

June 14th, 2010
4:21 pm

This new Big 12 is going to be WEAK. Big time ground lost to the Big Ten and Pac 10.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
4:22 pm

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
4:28 pm

From Liucci on the TexAgs board, indicating that all is not over (from his perspective as an A&M insider):

“Hey guys…a lot of stuff is happening and we’ve been all over it with updates as they happen in real time. With the nature of this story and the ever-changing situation, you might want to really consider jumping on board with a premium subscription for just a month. It will allow you to get all of the latest updates with accurate and timely information. It will also give you an opportunity to see what we’re all about.

To upgrade your subscription, click on the following link and select the “Premium” option: TexAgs.com/subscribe

The following is my latest post, sharing my opinion on what the Aggies actually hold the cards in this deal and why I feel they should sit tight and make the most informed decision possible.

———–

In my opinion, this is pretty simple and the Ags could play this perfectly if they wait. That’s it. Wait. Texas overplayed its hand early and is now trying to commandeer saving the Big 12. They could very well pull it off. If they do, the credit should go to A&M. After all, it was A&M NOT Texas still trying to preserve the league when officials from both schools met in Austin on Thursday.

If Texas announces something today in regards to trying to keep the Big 12 together, A&M should wait. Regroup and come to the decision that is the ABSOLUTE BEST for A&M. Not the politically correct or popular move. What’s BEST for Texas A&M and Texas A&M athletics moving forward. That is NOT a decision that needs to be made today.

What is the Big 12 going to do? Pressure A&M into jumping in at the same time with everyone? Are you kidding me? The Ags hold the cards here, not Texas, not anyone else. This is a power move by the Horns, a pressure play if ever there was one. Even if the Ags do decide the Big 12 is the best bet, they can take their time with this thing and not be pressured. The Big 12 isn’t going anywhere and, even if it did, A&M would have this neat little conference called the SEC to fall back on.

The irony of Texas’ latest play could be that it actually takes some of the pressure OFF of A&M, at least in terms of a timetable.

The Aggies haven’t had one but TWO meetings with SEC officials over the past two weeks and came away VERY impressed. However, under no circumstances did the A&M decision-makers want to be forced to choose the SEC because the Pac-10 offer wasn’t available. The goal was ALWAYS to make the best choice for Texas A&M University…not the one they HAD to make.

That, my friends, is what makes the concept that A&M turned down the Pac-10 yesterday so incredibly laughable. In light of what’s happened today and late last night, don’t you think a deal would have been done almost immediately after telling the Pac-10 no? Or before even?

Just wait and make the right decision. Leave no doubt.”

http://www.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=1640843&forum_id=5

John Doe

June 14th, 2010
4:32 pm

fbfan,

Do you even have an offer from the SEC yet? Are you sure?

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
4:33 pm

I’m not an Aggie, just feel for ‘em.

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
4:34 pm

I would have to say it does indeed now look like A&M now has a little more leverage than what people are thinking. Goof for them. Kinda fun to see Texas get needled a little bit.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
4:36 pm

The winner=
1. Nebraska wins the expansion saga
2..Texas is the distant winner-however that makes the Big 12 (OR IS NOW THE BIG 10???) lets add confustion to the saga. Better yet.. the Big 10 is now the BIG 12???? Think about that…
3. SEC wins or ties as second winner as it can does not have to react immediately
4. Loser Pac conf. Still a weak conference.

I think the Big 10 which is now the Big 12 (Granted they learn to count), and the Big 12 is now the Big 10.

Big 10 or Big 12? Big 12 is the big 10???

yee haw… Hook’em Horns.. Stay strong SEC in football. Now the second rated best football conference (former big 12) has become more weaker. Nebraska was the only competitive in the north. ouch.. Well still have Texas and OU and solid players like Texas Tech, Ok state, atm. That is not an SEC type of football competition. It is what it is..

Paul in RDU

June 14th, 2010
4:37 pm

I agree with anti-alternative that Nebraska is the big winner out of all this so far.
If the Big 12 – 2 + ? stays together and the other conferences stay pat, it will all only be until Jim Delany decides to expand the Big 10 + 2 further.

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
4:41 pm

Many are calling Big12-2 the “Little 10″ or “BigXII lite”, and others the UTconference or UT and the 9 dwarves…. Many other names. If it comes to be, it should be thought of as the BIG3 and the little7. It’s just destined to blow-up the minute a school like Mizzou gets a better offer (say, from the Big10 or SEC). Kansas and Mizzou must be so sad to realize how much more under Texas’ thumb they’d be in the Little 10.

Erik

June 14th, 2010
4:43 pm

I hope the SEC offers the Aggies anyway and they tell Texas to stick it. Let’s beef up and go to 14 teams. Bring in FSU or Virginia Tech to balance the East. Get it done.

Go Dawgs.

flapjacket

June 14th, 2010
4:49 pm

Why do my comments never get posted to the board?

fbfan

June 14th, 2010
4:49 pm

As reported by SportsbyBrooks:

“From Rob Oller of the Columbus Dispatch: “If Texas gets more money ($20-25 mill a year) than other Big 12 schools, no one can say Horns never play anyone. They just played everyone.”"

flapjacket

June 14th, 2010
4:53 pm

Well there you go. A summary of what I had typed previously was that the SEC is built on brand and matchups, not TV markets. Adding any ACC team other than the southernmost 4 dilutes the brand by provinding boring matchups save for VT, which ain’t coming without UVA, which ain’t coming. I don’t think UM is a fit. Clemson, FSU, Tech would add good matchups that would carry a significant national interest.

With A&M and OU, you get some good matchups out west AND TV markets, which is a bonus. But I don’t think they come. So, I think SEC expansion includes taking one or more of these three ACC teams, and FSU will not be let in unless GT is, IMHO, becaue UF won’t allow it.

I think the Big 12 stays together, the Pac 10 adds one more (Utah), and the Big 10 stays at 12, though. I think we’re done for a while.

Texas and Notre Dame, 2 peas in a pod

June 14th, 2010
4:55 pm

Does anybody that has to deal with the University of Texas actually like being associated with them? Nebraska hates them. Colorado doesn’t care for them (they wouldn’t have bolted otherwise). A&M hates them. Oklahoma doesn’t seem too fond either but they’re too tied to Texas recruiting hotbeds to break away. Seems like a recurring theme.

I think there are a lot of similarities between Texas and Notre Dame. They make a lot of demands and eventually wear out their welcome. Probably why Notre Dame isn’t in a conference. No one has agreed to a deal that meets their demands.

sec

June 14th, 2010
4:58 pm

SEC will never invite, G. Tech, FSU, Memphis or S. Miss. or Clemson. if Texas A&M comes ,and Oklahoma goes with Texas , then I would look for Missouri , V Tech, Miami.

Anti-alternative

June 14th, 2010
5:05 pm

sec, reasons?

You’ve got to see how some of those schools would further purify the Southeastern brand and add rivalry firepower (Hint: People tune in to watch rivalry games). The three strongest cases for SEC admittance currently within the SEC footprint are Tech, FSU and Clemson. Miami and VT are outside the footprint but have already gone on record reaffirming their loyalty to the ACC. UNC basically runs the ACC front office with Duke, NCSU and Wake. So at least give some good reasons that those three aforementioned ACC schools in SEC country would be bad ideas. They all seem to add basketball weight and two of the three add academic weight. They’re all historic rivals to SEC programs, and they’d lock up Southeastern recruiting soil for the conference. Seems they’d fit in alright.

Paul in RDU

June 14th, 2010
5:06 pm

There are several reasons why ND is not in a conference for FB:
1) Contract with NBC = $$$ that they don’t have to share
2) Guarantee to be in a BCS Bowl if they have a high enough ranking = $$$$$ that they don’t have to share
3) Ability to control their FB schedule

You forgot a tiger

June 14th, 2010
5:06 pm

Man fbfan has been shilling for his website all day. Surprised he’s been able to slink through the screeners.

OakTree

June 14th, 2010
5:07 pm

Texas and Notre Dame very much “2 peas in a pod”

One big difference- Texas actually wins football games and qualifies for bcs bowls. They beat OU soundly in two years ago and some how OU with AP press was able to sneak into the BCS champ game against Florida.

Actually, I would Florida as cousin to Texas and Notre Dame…>>>><<<

Texas/Notre Dame and thier cousin Florida…

Texas and Notre Dame, 2 peas in a pod

June 14th, 2010
5:13 pm

Paul,

I agree. I was trying to say that ND has probably already given their demands to the Big Ten and the Big Ten told them no. Their demands would have to be substantial to throw out the reasons you specified.

Speaking of ND’s schedule, it’s very weak and they still can’t win.

OakTree

June 14th, 2010
5:17 pm

If atm does not agree to the Big 12 terms. Then the big 12 will seek to add another team and give atm a time frame. Power play 101.. Yet it could happen.. TCU, courtship arkansas???

OakTree

June 14th, 2010
5:20 pm

I do not the facts but it is true.
Notre Dame does not a conference. That sounds terrible, but it is true.
TV contracts, bcs bid when qualified, etc

Only thing that will force them to a conference is super conferences because it limits teams to play ooc games.

Paul in RDU

June 14th, 2010
5:24 pm

Texas and ND – I am no fan of ND and think that the best thing for them is to join the Big 10 (+2 +?).
However, they seem to think that they are exceptional.

Ten Gallon Shooter

June 14th, 2010
5:27 pm

Dear biatches (Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, and Texas A&M),

Welcome to the newest conference in college football, the Texas Controlled Conference or TCC (or Big 12 Lite if you prefer). You’ll get nothing and like it!

Sincerely,
The University of Texas

jumbeauxtiger

June 14th, 2010
5:28 pm

For anyone interested in reading the USC infractions report:

http://assets.espn.go.com/preview/100610/espn_uscpenalties.pdf

Beast from the East

June 14th, 2010
5:34 pm

OakTree,
What’s you basis for lumoing in UF with UT and ND?

Delbert D.

June 14th, 2010
5:35 pm

Okay, I just woke up from a nap; where were we? Right…hey Beebe: show..me..the..Money!

Beast from the East

June 14th, 2010
5:35 pm

Ten Gallon Shooter,
I want a hamburger, no I want a cheeseburger. I want a hot dog, no I want a chili dog….

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
5:36 pm

OakTree—-

We can argue about the whole world’s most obnoxious fans thing, but I think you would be hard-pressed to say that Florida has ever been anything other than a loyal member of the SEC. Nor has Florida ever made unreasonable demands on its conference sisters, nor tired to out and out screw them on a financial basis. Florida was part of the all-for-one, one-for-all SEC loyalty oath when the Gators were small fries, and that is still their attitude now. Heck, I’m still flabbergasted that any university would demand a greater than equal share. Afterall, even when one school becomes a kingpin, that school still has to have opponents to play in order to be a kingpin. Frankly, I think it’s a sad state of affairs when Texas can demand a greater share of the pie, and get away with it. They will never get an invitation to join the SEC or the Big Ten if that’s one of their demands, and I hope to God all 12 SEC members would vote against that deal if the commissioner ever proposed it. Not even Alabama at its 1960s-1970s peak was so arrogant as to demand such a thing.

Delbert D.

June 14th, 2010
5:36 pm

Beast from the East – That’s ok, I do it all the time.

Beast from the East

June 14th, 2010
5:38 pm

AG,
OakTree appears to be another bitter pup. My best guess anyway.

Delbert D.

June 14th, 2010
5:39 pm

Gene Stallings sez, “I feel strongly both ways.”

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
5:42 pm

As for Arkansas, why in God’s good name would they take a conference revenue pay cut for the privilege of being tormented by Texas?

I used to admire the University of Texas, and I’ve had some very good friends who were alumni. Based on what I’ve seen and what I’ve learned over the last several days, I have to say that comparing Texas to Notre Dame is a little unfair—-to Notre Dame.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
5:44 pm

Nah. OakTree’s a good egg. He’s just venting.

Maintain your Gator oblesse oblige.

Delbert D.

June 14th, 2010
5:44 pm

TCU is in a soon-to-be BCS conference now. Why jump into the shark tank with the Great White and the Lampreys?

Dostoyevskiy

June 14th, 2010
5:44 pm

So what I gained so far, is that no one wants to join the SEC, and things will remain as usual: Alabama and Fl beating the tar out of everyone else, with Kentucky remaining the only viable bb program in the conference.

aggie94

June 14th, 2010
5:46 pm

The Horns have always pushed b-c no one could push back….I hope we push back and join the SEC.(although I may be simply selecting another poison for my Aggies)

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
5:47 pm

Damn. That’s “Noblesse oblige.” I need a proofreader.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
5:51 pm

fbfan
You make some very valid points. I think the shift clearly moves from Texas, Pac, SEC to the Big 10 and SEC.
I hope the SEC becomes proactive in this round.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
5:53 pm

Would like to see Pitt and VT join the SEC. Become an SEC. May have to arrange some of the seating of the east and west but can be done with some creative drawing.

Delbert D.

June 14th, 2010
5:53 pm

aggie94 – Texas A&M would be a great addition to the SEC.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
5:53 pm

Fyodor—-

No one “beats the tar out of everyone else” on a consistent basis in SEC football. That’s what makes it the SEC. On any given Saturday, Ole Miss beats Florida, Kentucky beats Georgia, Georgia beats Alabama . . . and, heck, even Vanderbilt rose up smited Auburn two years ago for a bowl bid.

No one gets a free pass in the SEC.

BTW, re SEC basketball, I seem to remember the Florida Gators wining two NCAA tournaments since the Kentucky Wildcats won their last one. Tennessee and Vanderbilt have had some pretty darn good hoops teams in the last five years, too.

Beast from the East

June 14th, 2010
5:54 pm

Dostoyevskiy,
“kentucky remaining the only viable bb program in the conference”.

UF won back to back NC’s this past decade in BB. LSU went to a final four, as well. Vandy and Tennesse have been in the top 25 with great regularity. I’d say that is more than one program.
Care to recant?

Dostoyevskiy

June 14th, 2010
5:54 pm

Question here: Why is the ACC so much better in academics than the SEC? Anybody have a rational explanation? Why are UNC and UVa, both state schools, better than UGa, Alabama, Fl., etc., also state schools. Or will the question be ignored or simply lampooned?

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
5:55 pm

Virginia Tech and Pitt would both be worthy additions, but Pitt is a little outside our geographic zone, don’t you think?

Dr. Van Nostrand

June 14th, 2010
5:56 pm

The way the University of Texas behaves in conferences is the same way cancer behaves in the human body.

Delbert D.

June 14th, 2010
5:58 pm

Atlanta Gator – smote? smat? I don’t use the word nearly enough to know.

GeneralNeyland96

June 14th, 2010
5:58 pm

5IML – follow up question for you regarding Champ Games…..now that the big 12(-2) is short of the champ game qualifying count….do they have to give up their game???

Beast from the East

June 14th, 2010
5:59 pm

AG,
Beat me to the punch in regards to SEC basketball. Anyone saying it’s not a basketball conference hasn’t been paying attention the last 10 years or so. Cetainly, we have a long way to go to even be considered on the same level as the ACC in hoops, but there are several programs on the rise. Very competitive conference.

Delbert D.

June 14th, 2010
6:00 pm

Dostoyevskiy – It isn’t the Age of Reason for a large segment of the population.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
6:01 pm

Atlanta Gator
Your right about Pitt be a challenging geographic, but they do have a decent football team and the state of Pennsylvania would watch the games. Perhaps I am just being an optimist. Would not like Pitt to get sucked into the “not able to count” big 10 conf. Rather have SEC be proactive.

Beast from the East

June 14th, 2010
6:03 pm

GeneralNeyland96,
As I undertand it, you have to have a minimum of 12 teams to hold a championship game. That does not REQUIRE you to have one, but is the minimum number. I’ve heard that they would petition for an exemption from that rule until they could retain 2 more members IF they hold the conference together.

aggie94

June 14th, 2010
6:03 pm

you do need 12 teams for a championship game…per NCAA

Delbert D.

June 14th, 2010
6:03 pm

Dostoyevskiy – Let me add that the faculty, students and alumni of the University of Florida and the University of Georgia are rational. Thought is a wonderful thing, if it results in action.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
6:03 pm

Just trying to think of two teams due north or northwest around arkansas that would be a good fit for the SEC. ????

playmeortrademe

June 14th, 2010
6:03 pm

Texas is leveraging everyone to get their own network, and daring A&M to go without them…The Pac-10(11) will have egg on their faces before the end of the week and will scramble to get a 12th in for a championship game to get a sweet TV deal, so Utah OR, if they really had guts, UNLV, gets in.

1) SEC expansion will not happen if its not Texas. the only schools that might add value and consider joining are Memphis and Louisville. I don’t think Va Tech is a candidate, and I don’t think they would join anyway and get weekly beat-downs in the SEC East. Clemson is a decent fit with a Charlotte presence but same thing, they would be fourth or fifth banana most years in the SEC East, plus I think USC, UGA, and Florida would veto their admission unless they could really bring $$$ to the league.

2) Houston will eventually join the 10-team Big XII, and TCU will follow if the MWC can’t get an automatic BCS bid. Not that they are needed for market share, but they get the league back to XII and they make the most sense, TCU is a strong program in the Dallas market, Houston is building a new stadium and, well, is in Houston.

3) OR (and I think this WILL happen)…tables turn on the PAC 10 and the Big XII steals Arizona and Arizona State to get back to 12. This paves the way for the Pac 10, in desperation, to get Utah, BYU, Colorado State, UNLV to get a 12 team conference, effectively ending the MWC as a BCS player, paving the way for TCU and New Mexico to go Big XII, then Houston and either Tulsa, Rice, UTEP, or Tulane join for the 16th Big XII member.

Texas is brilliant…They are engineering the first superconference their way, and they will be the kings at the head of the table.

ckgator

June 14th, 2010
6:04 pm

Tech back to the SEC. Let’s go already!

Delbert D.

June 14th, 2010
6:06 pm

The athletic director of Notre Dame, a alumnus and former player, has stated that they intend to proceed incrementally over a period of probably a few years.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
6:09 pm

The Pac 10 was only 10 teams for years. Do not need conf champ game. Also, the big 10 which in reality was 11 teams did very well.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
6:13 pm

Got it… Pitt (little outside the territory but give them some money) and Louisville. One to the east and one to the west.

Louisville will become a stronger team with the new coach from Florida. He has Florida ties for recruiting so they may be able to pool from the main source of talent in the SEC.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
6:20 pm

Playmeortrademe
Great outline. Just for humor or keep things interesting. You know the big 12 (10) will eventually add 2 more teams. I think the big 12 wait on the results of the SEC and Big 10 battle and perhaps can get an unhappy SEC team like Arkansas and then bring in TCU. As of today, for the big 12 I think they sit tight and watch what happens in the SEC expansion. May be some fall out. Who knows..

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
6:22 pm

I just realized that other than a little poking fun at Texas today I haven’t seen any of the Georgia sucks, Bama sucks, Tech sucks, Florida sucks mindless banter that we usually see. Mostly just a reasonable discussion as to the possible conference realignments and scenarios. Kinda refreshing.

aggie94

June 14th, 2010
6:27 pm

Oil in the Gulf sucks, football is awesome

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
6:28 pm

Fyodor—-

First off, three of the top four ranked schools in the ACC are private, not public: Boston College, Duke, Wake Forest. Georgia Tech is an engineering and hard sciences school that has only relatively recently evolved decent liberal arts and business programs. Virginia (of which I have some personal knowledge) and North Carolina are model comprehensive public universities. UVa is currently ranked ahead of every state university other than Berkeley. But let’s be blunt: Clemson, North Carolina State, Virginia Tech, Maryland and Florida State are nothing particularly special among elite public universities, nor is Miami among private schools.

If the ACC and the SEC were merged, Vanderbilt would be the second school overall, and Florida would be the fourth state school and sixth overall. Georgia would the fifth state school and seventh overall.

Why do UVa, UNC and Georgia have tougher admission standards? Well, for starters, they are all less than half the size of Florida and a third smaller than Georgia. A fair comparison is not a university of 25,000 like UVa, but another state university of 50,000, say, like Texas. Not surprisingly, Florida and Texas are ranked very similarly, and Georgia is not far behind. Or how about Florida’s in-state ACC rival FSU; yup, Florida is ranked a lot higher than another Southern university of similar size. Georgia is not far behind. Auburn and Alabama, like Clemson, Maryland, NCSU and FSU are respectable public universities. Arkansas, Kentucky, LSU, Ole Miss and Mississippi State are all relatively large public universities that represent historically impoverished and relatively small Southern states with horrendously weak secondary education systems. In fairness to those four states, they’re not doing so badly with the resources they have historically devoted. Virginia, North Carolina, Florida and Georgia had better tax bases and could afford to spend more money on higher education. Those four states also had significant influxes of upper middle class in-migration which also improved their educational outcomes. Not surprisingly, the higher education outcomes for those four states was better.

Not making excuses for anyone, but history, demographics and economics explain a great deal of the differences. In Virginia’s case, the university was also the beneficiary of the vision of its founder who was at least a half-century ahead in his thinking the founders of other American state universities.

CrackDaddy

June 14th, 2010
6:28 pm

Dosto…, it’s a fact that the colleges and universities to the south of North Carolina, all the way across the country (with a very, very few exceptions), are inferior to those to the north. I’d like to here an explanation for this as well. And I’m a southerner.

BuLLdawg

June 14th, 2010
6:29 pm

Tony Blowhart, a whole lot of dribble, with not 1 comment about the Big East and the only statement about the ACC is that The SEC is not interested in ANY of their teams.

It is ALSO boring.

Look. Let’s describe who the LOSERS are to-date : Big XII, the ACC, the Big East and Southern California Trojans.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
6:31 pm

Tide Rising—-

But no one ever says “Florida sucks.”

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
6:34 pm

Atlanta Gator
Well stated. The private and public university scenario and why Florida and Texas are situated similiar in many fashions/traits/characteristics.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
6:35 pm

Atlanta Gator
You just opened up the flood gates for “suck comments” LOL.. You had to keep it interesting. Good for you…

aggie94

June 14th, 2010
6:37 pm

Texas Tech sucks!

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
6:42 pm

High five to you aggie94. We will need to promote you to Aggie54 instead of aggie54…

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
6:42 pm

Crap.. it is aggie94 to Aggie94. Not 54

bad brad

June 14th, 2010
6:45 pm

my 2 cents worth: Reason Texas A&M is an attraction for SEC is that they will bring an old-line traditional school with access to big state and no real down side. The Aggies ain’t going to come into the SEC and whip anybody’s arse on a regular basis. I don’t have a lot of respect for teams that will come play you on your home field and not demand a return home date. Dawgs beat A&M 44-0 in Athens and didnt have to go to College Station to reciprocate. Baylor also came to Athens for a butt whipping but we didnt go there.

I think if A&M will come they will be welcomed by conference with open arms. Then SEC will try to add another school probably from the SEC with similar status…not sure if it will be Clemson or FSU but someone like them. FSU brings a big-time name but Bobby Bowden was chicken in the 90s and I think SEC will remember that rejection.

However it shakes out, this has made for some interesting speculation and reading.

CrackDaddy

June 14th, 2010
6:46 pm

I believe the ACC said they would not answer the phone if the SEC called. I guess that’s why no one from the ACC was invited (assuming they were not).

bad brad

June 14th, 2010
6:47 pm

meant to say add a team from the southeast not SEC…too far into happy hour

UCLA

June 14th, 2010
6:52 pm

BAD BRAD,

UCLA also went to Sanford Stadium in 1985. The dogs backed out of the return trip to LA that they were supposed to take the next year. It could be that the dawgs were expected to reciprocate like in the case of UCLA and Georgia simply backed out for whatever reason. Dawgs went something like 56 years of not playing outside of the confines of the immediate southeast. Playing high profile home and homes outside of the southeast with other major programs is what elevated Alabama and Tennessee over georgia and other sec programs in the 60s and into the 2000s. Only 2 years ago did the dawgs begin to step up to the plate and even then it was with middle of the pack Az state and OK state which has never won its division. .

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
6:53 pm

atm got whipped in the big 12. They surely will be whipped in the SEC. atm a good product. I really think atm is just making noise and the SEC is falling into thier scheme. Remember there is a huge endowment fund(oil and natural gas) that funds Texas and Texas atm. That money is staying in the State of Texas.
If the state of Alabama was set up with that type of endowment that would link U of Alabama and Auburn together. They would never split.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
6:53 pm

Pitt is hoping for a Big Ten (12) invitation when the dust settles. Memphis would add absolutely nothing to the SEC other than a new academic anchor man. Maybe Louisville: good basketball, decent and improving football, but another Tier 3 academic mediocrity (but at least it’s stronger than Memphis).

The directional Florida schools would add nothing, and outside of football, have fairly weak athletic programs overall. Southern Miss? Why would we add the third school from Mississippi, already the weakest state in the conference? (Talk about your vetoes—-Ole Miss and State will never let USM in.)

Guys, it really is a short list of schools that make sense:

1. Texas (would only join, if at all, on terms unacceptable to existing members);

2. Oklahoma (not joining without Texas);

3. Texas A&M;

4. Vriginia Tech;

5. Missouri;

6. Florida State (doesn’t want to play an SEC schedule);

7. Clemson;

8. Georgia Tech;

9. Louisville.

Having played with the scheduling in 14 and 16-team scenarios, I would prefer to see no more than two teams added because it would help preserve multiple rivalries and would still permit a reasonable six-year rotation among opposite division opponents (if the conference schedule were expanded to 9 games). Add 4 teams to get to a 16-member SEC would really be more in the nature of two 8-member conferences with a playoff because of the inability to schedule a relatively frequent rotation of opposite division opponents.

BuLLdawg

June 14th, 2010
6:53 pm

Aggies suck. Over the last 8 years, Aggies are # 69 in won / loss record. They have also lost 14 of the last 16 games vs Texas and Oklahoma. So what if they want out of having to play Texas and Oklahoma.

Southern California will be the big losers if Texas and Oklahoma go to the PAC-1 because there would be more than 1 team in that conference finally. There is no tradition in the PAC-1.

PAC-10 sucks.

Big XII sucks and all the Big XII homers who said I was wrong, where are you NOW ?

Nebraska sucks.

The Big Ten (12) sucks.

The Big East sucks.

The ACC sucks.

We have kinda sucked around here at 38-14 over the last 4 years ourselves, good for # 19 in the nation in won / loss record.

With Chris Low ESPN pointing out that Coach Richt is # 5 in The SEC in his entire 9-Year Career here at UGA vs Top 25 teams on Game Day for current coaches at the current school, Coach Richt does not suck, but his coaching staff for the entire 9-Year Coach Richt Era to-date clearly SUCKS the big one.

Colorado sucks.

Georgia tek sucks.

Baylor sucks.

Oklahoma, who has lost 4 of the last 5 games vs Texas and 3 of the last 5 games vs Texas Tech, and over the last 5 Consecutive Years now and counting, sucks.

Beast from the East

June 14th, 2010
6:54 pm

ESPN just announced that the Texas President has declined the PAC10 invite.

BuLLdawg

June 14th, 2010
7:00 pm

Atlanta Gator,

NONE of those teams 3 through the end could even begin to hope to compete in The SEC. Therefore, ALL are out.

BuLLdawg

June 14th, 2010
7:01 pm

Because they suck and can only compete against cupcakes.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
7:01 pm

Pac will be hurting for revenue without Texas. USC is in decline and will take a good 6 years to rebound from sanctions.

BuLLdawg… did someone need to vent a little… LOL
I had to laugh when you even stated that thing in Georgia sucked too. Outlook look good for Georgia. Last year was a rebuild year. Lose a QB and RB to the draft the year prior. That would suck…

Paul in RDU

June 14th, 2010
7:01 pm

Atlanta Gator – Nice post on the various universities. A couple of points:
1) you can’t say that UGA is elite and Clemson isn’t – they have similar rankings
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/national-top-public
2) UGA has improved its academic rankings dramatically in the last 30 years – due to $ and committment

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
7:03 pm

Florida and Alabama would not schedule any cupcakes????? They need cupcakes because everyone plays them like it is a superbowl for the visiting team. I do give Georgia credit. They will line up and play anyone..

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
7:05 pm

Texas played arkansas, then arkansas backed out of the agreement. They postponed the return series for another year. Just an fyi..

Beast from the East

June 14th, 2010
7:06 pm

It appears that Texas used the PAC 1O like a dish-rag. With USC in a free-fall, that conference is in a world of hurt for the next 5-6 years.
Now I would love to see Arizona and Arizona State bail and head for the Big 12. LOL!!!!!

BuLLdawg

June 14th, 2010
7:06 pm

BuLLdawg

June 14th, 2010
7:08 pm

“Pac-10 Commissioner Larry Scott confirmed that the University of Texas has declined an invitation to join the conference.”

The Dallas Morning News

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
7:11 pm

Paul in RDU—-

I had already noted Clemson’s 2010 US News national university ranking of 61st. In my eyes at least, it makes Clemson a more desirable acquisition target in the coming SEC anschluss.

(Psst. Wanna join? I have a bid here in my pocket.)

= )

travy

June 14th, 2010
7:14 pm

ha! i love college football

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
7:15 pm

Yeppie,

I had a couple friends that went to Texas one of them on a scholarship. They said the same thing about UT that it was hard to get into but that tuition was very cheap because UT had several huge oil lease grants that were making money hand over fist for the school. Don’t know if that’s the case today but it certainly was back in the 80s.

In reference to Tam not competing in the big 12 in most years that would worry me also if they came into the SEC. I remember several years ago when OU flattened A&M 77-0 and it could have been worse. For Pete’s sake OU was at the A&M 5 yard line with 8 minutes left in the game and about to make it 84-0 but Stoops literally had the running backs fall down in the back field on center/guard dive plays to avoid further humiliating the aggies. That could never happen in the sec. Too much pride and too much parity for teams to be getting beat by 77 and nearly 84 points.

We’ve had 30 and 40 pt blowouts in the sec and on rare occasion a really bad blowout like uf pounding UK something like 63-5 2 years ago. But we’ve never had 60 and 70 pt blowouts with regularity in the sec. Nebraska used to also beat teams regularly in the 90s by 60-70 pts so its not just A&M. So it does make me wonder about the competitiveness of a middle tier big 12 team like A&M in the sec. .

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
7:17 pm

BuLLdawg—-

I have two things to say to you:

1. The correct conference nomenclature for the former Big Ten and Big XII is now the “Big Ten (12)” and the “Big XII (X).” Alternatively, you may refer to the former Big XII as the “Little X.”

2. In your comprehensive “sucks” list above, you did not mention the University of Florida. Does that mean you agree that Florida does not?

Just asking.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
7:21 pm

Tide Rising—-

In fairness to the Gators, you must acknowledge that’s usually Florida’s second or third team running up the score on Kentucky. It’s not like Meyer doesn’t yank the starters when we’re ahead by seven or more touchdowns.

Beast from the East

June 14th, 2010
7:23 pm

AG,
That’s true. But SOS sure did run it up on a few teams in his heyday.
I almost felt bad a couple of times…..ALMOST.

BuLLdawg

June 14th, 2010
7:25 pm

Atlanta Gator

I have no idea why you refer to The SEC as

Anschluss

Nazi propaganda is not what The SEC is doing. And, by the way, Austria still exists. Our Greatest Generation liberated Austria. And, then we come in here and you improperly use Anschluss to desribe The SEC sitting on the outside watching the Big XII become a conference without Nebraska and Colorado – neither of whom could compete.

You are just wrong Atlanta Gator.

Please say you are sorry for the reference to Anschluss.

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
7:25 pm

Yeppie,

You give Georgia credit because they will line up and play anyone?

Georgia has had a fairly tough schedule the last 2 years with a couple of decent teams like Tech and Ok state which is a decent enough team but turned out to be way overrated. Tech they have to play cause its an instate rival but up until 2 years ago Tech was just not very good under Chan Gailey.

Georgia also has a policy of not playing the true 2-3 heavyweight teams in a conference. They will play the middling or mediocre programs like Arizona state which has generally sucked the last 10 years, Ok state which has never won its division and did not finish in the top 25 last year and which also got belted by Ole miss in the cotton bowl, and Colorado which was 3-9 last year and has had 4 or 5 straight losing seasons. They will not play an Ohio State, USC, OU, VT, or other out of conference team that is currently one of the top 2-3 teams in their conference.

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
7:31 pm

Atlanta Gator,

In fairness to the gators that was one of those games where things just got out of hand for a combination of reasons. No. 1 Florida was peaking and rolling and a couple of huge special teams plays like 2 blocked punts quickly turned into tds and uk was reeling before the first commercial break. No. 2 was the UK had 6 starters out for the game due to injury. It wouldn’t have made a difference but they were banged up and had they been healthy at least they could have put up a fight and lost by only 30 or so as opposed to a 58 pt loss. Not blaming the gators for running it up. Just sayin it was one of those unusual days were the stars were perfectly aligned against UK and that blowouts like that don’t normally happen in the sec. That’s all.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
7:31 pm

Tide Rising
You are absolutely correct. Admission into UT (student/not athlete) is very difficult. It is easier to get into atm then UT. The only school in Texas that is more difficult is Rice University. However, Rice is a private school.

Tuition wise. Good value for in state students-hence the oil/natural gas revenues. However, out of state and international students pay big bucks. When I was at UT, I learned that the there is a world outside of Texas and the USA. Lot of students from China and other countries.

By the way, UT has during the school year of 50k students. With the majority being first or second year students. As thw wash out rate of students is drastic. Only one of three students will actually graduate.

atm is a good product. They new claim to fame is to be the upset football program in big 12. They have been whipped in the big 12 and the thought of being in a tougher SEC would be worse if they want a winning program.

UT – (as a public state funded school) rates of the best business, law, medical and engineering schools in the country.

Keep the SEC in the southeast

June 14th, 2010
7:31 pm

Now that the nine remaining members of the Big 12 and arrogant Texas have decided to stay,
they can add TCU and SMU.

BuLLdawg

June 14th, 2010
7:32 pm

No, Florida does not.

Not at 17 of the last 20.

Not at # 1 vs SEC East the last 4 years at 19-1 and UGA at 10-10.

Not with 3 National Championships since 1996.

Not with a seasoned ready QB again this year, as you prepared Tim Tebow 2006.

Not at # 1 vs SEC the last 4 years at 29-6 while UGA has gone 20-12.

But, to ask such a D.S. question, you get the award Atlanta Gator, or are you that insecure that you had to ask sir ?

BuLLdawg

June 14th, 2010
7:33 pm

By Chris Low June 11, 2010

One of the best ways to evaluate a coach is to look at his record against nationally ranked teams.

Coaches in the SEC against what was on game day Top 25 foes at their current schools

No. 1 : Urban Meyer, Florida — 19-6 (.760)
No. 2 : Nick Saban, Alabama — 11-5 (.688)
No. 3 : Houston Nutt, Ole Miss — 5-3 (.625)
No. 4 : Les Miles, LSU — 18-11 (.621)
No. 5 : Mark Richt, Georgia — 29-19 (.604)

Not at that Atlanta Gator, or do you NOT READ a DAMN THING I post ?

Paul in RDU

June 14th, 2010
7:35 pm

Atlanta Gator – Anschluss??? Hopefully that is not your historic precedent

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
7:37 pm

Tide Rising
UT is competing for research funds from the federal government. So they have to be careful were affiliation they become to the eyes of the world. Currently, competing with the big 10 conference (big 10-the original big 10) for a 250 million dollar grant for research. It will be a huge grant and Texas, Michigan, Cal are in a battle for the funding.

bad brad

June 14th, 2010
7:39 pm

UCLA,
Remember that well; was planning to go to that game but it was UCLA who backed out not UGA. Something about not being able to pay the guarantee. Check it out and you will see that I am correct. Nice try.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
7:40 pm

Beast—-

We both know against which team the Evil Genius enjoyed running the score most, don’t we? Question is, do you know why the Evil Genius was so angry with the Dawgs? And, no, it was not because the Dawgs defense stomped him during his Heisman Trophy season . . . .

In 1968, two years after Spurrier graduated, Vince Dooley ran up the score against Ray Graves’ Gators In Jacksonville. Dooley was campaigning for a slice of the national championship in 1968, an decided to let loose the hounds on one of Graves’ weaker Gators teams, thumping the Gators 51-0. Spurrier, who was always close to his former coach, was royally angry and took it as a personal insult from Dooley to Graves.

Twenty-six and twenty-seven years later, when the Gators were playing the first home-and-away with the Dawgs since 1932, the Evil Genius hung “half a hundred” on the Dawgs twice, including 52 points in Sanford Stadium. Please note that 52 points in 1995 would be 1 point more than 51 points in 1969. Spurrier was never one to be outdone by anyone.

In 1995, Dooley was UGA’s athletic director. When a reporter asked Spurrier why had run up the score against the Dawgs, he responded “Ask Vince Dooley.”

So, for all you Dawgs and Gators who are old enough to remember either 1968 or 1995, that’s the rest of the story.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
7:40 pm

Thanks for asking Tide RISING.

Back to football.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
7:44 pm

BuLLdawg—-

No,sir, I’ve actually read quite a few of your AJC blog posts over the years. I just enjoy the thrill of poking the bear with a sharp stick.

= )

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
7:44 pm

I like the blog site because I respect the SEC football programs. Also the passion of the fan base. Texas is similiar but SEC is much more diverse as all teams fan base are passionate. That is a compliment.

In the original big 12.. It is just Texas, OU and some aggies. SEC brings Florida, Alabama, Georgia, LSU, and etc into the discussion. However, at times it can be annoying but over all one of the most knowledgable fan base resides in the SEC.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
7:45 pm

Paul in RDU—-

Metaphorically speaking, of course.

Tech Fan Since 1950

June 14th, 2010
7:46 pm

The expansion situation, from this point, is in the court (er, end zone) of the Big Ten. If Notre Dame doesn’t (says it will not) take a potential invite from the Big Ten then the Big Ten will likely look south to bookend with Nebraska. The biggest strategic target from a marketing, demographic and academic compatibility standpoint is in Atlanta. If that happens, the SEC will have a minefield in its back yard when Michigan, Ohio State, etc. come to town, and it will not just be the ACC.

Paul in RDU

June 14th, 2010
7:49 pm

Atlanta Gator – that was an interesting story on the UGA-UF series and the reason for SOS running up the score.
BTW – Some UGA fans claim the 1968 MNC (Litkenhous named them #1). How anyone can seriously think an 8-1-2 UGA team was better than OSU in 1968 (10-0, blew out UM and USC) is beyond me

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
7:49 pm

Okay, Mr. BuLLdawg, I’m sorry.

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
7:49 pm

Yeppie,

We all know about Texas in research but where does A&M stand? I always thought A&M did a lot of research since I remember a couple of times reading about some astounding physics achievements that had been made at A&M labs but that seems to be absent in this discussion about research dollars. I think Atl gator mentioned once about A&M doing well in research dollars but that’s all I’ve heard.

bad brad

June 14th, 2010
7:50 pm

UCLA, also it was Labor Day 1983 not 1985 when UCLA came to Athens then cancelled the game for the next season after the 1983 season was complete. Guess they didnt want 2 arse whippings in a row.

BuLLdawg

June 14th, 2010
7:50 pm

Atlanta Gator

You are ALSO wrong on 1995 and the biggest lop-sided win you can name.

75-0 UGA beat Florida, we won the National Championship.

Also, as for your reference to 52 points, when Spurrier went for 2, they asked him after the game why he went for 2 and he said “because I could not go for 3.”

We scored 17.

You also talk about 1968 and how Vince Dooley was “trying to get a slice of the national championship.”

Excuse me, we are ranked National Champions in 1968. I have the Official NCAA Records Book and we have a SLICE 1968.

We have 6 such.

Now where is your apology as asked now by SEVERAL OF US tonight Atlanta Gator you arrogant soul for saying gutless sort for your reference to The SEC as

Anschluss

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
7:51 pm

Atlanta gator,

Didn’t you once tell me that apologizing was a statement of weakness? Say it aint so.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
7:52 pm

Paul in RDU—-

My advice to you, as a Clemson Tiger fan, is don’t piss off the Evil Genius. He’s a very good coach, he hates to lose, he harbors grudges, and he has a VERY long memory.

Beast from the East

June 14th, 2010
7:52 pm

AG,
I always thought his hatred was because Jerri looks awful in red and black. LOL

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
7:54 pm

Tide Rsiing—-

If you were a little older, you would recognize that as a John Wayne quote from one of the old John Ford cavalry movies. Nevertheless, I had to apologize. Mr. BuLLdawg made me.

Yeppie

June 14th, 2010
7:54 pm

Got to go… My better half wants to go out for eat. MY COMPLIMENTS to the SEC. I am pro big 12 (original) and Texas.
HOWEVER,
THE SEC has the best football competition and the best passionate and knowledgeable college football followings in the country. Allows an avenue for great blog sites such as this one.

Take care….As we will reside again in the bcs champ bowl. Texas will whip the big 12 football teams and meet the SEC champ. If the SEC champ does not play the in bcs champ game the SEC was robbed by the AP loving the west coast or the old traditional Big 10 (original big 10) as nostogic.
PEACE..

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
7:54 pm

BuLLdawg,

Sheesh. Calm down man on the atl gator.

I always thought UGA had 5 national titles if you go by any sort of poll instead of 6. If going by any poll we have 17 but usually I like to claim 4 million and sometimes when we’re modest we only claim 13.

BuLLdawg

June 14th, 2010
7:54 pm

The SEC can always say we are better than Ohio State suckeyes, as Ohio State is 0-9 vs SEC teams in bowl games, including to UGA.

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
7:55 pm

Atlanta gator,

I thought I recognized the quote. I just couldn’t remember where.

BuLLdawg

June 14th, 2010
7:56 pm

Ok, Atlanta Gator.

(I thought you wanted to poke me. Turns out you are just a wuss.)

travy

June 14th, 2010
7:57 pm

reading all the excellent comments here the last few days i can’t help but laugh at the fact that texas basically turned the whole thing upside down just so they could have their own tv network.

berkeley of the south!! BWAHAHAHA!

Paul in RDU

June 14th, 2010
8:00 pm

Atlanta Gator – A Clemson Tiger fan?? You have me confused with someone else. I have a graduate degree from the NATS.

Beast from the East

June 14th, 2010
8:00 pm

Tide Rising,
We can only claim 3. But they are all SWEEEEEETTTTTT!!!!! I hope Urb and the boys are looking for some payback this year. It’s gonna be a brawl. Also, hope to see ya’ll in Atlanta again. 3 years in a row would remind me of when we started this whole championship game thing. It was Bama versus Florida almost every year.

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
8:00 pm

travy,

maybe tejas also had the ancillary reason of giving us plenty to blog about when they decided to try and turn the college football world on its head.

BuLLdawg

June 14th, 2010
8:00 pm

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
8:02 pm

Ah, but you have been poked. Twice, Mr. Bear. But my father would not have approved of the Anschluss comment. He spent four years kicking fascist/imperialist butt in the South Pacific as the commander of a Seabees battalion, and another year tidying up the mess left behind afterward before coming home in 1946.

No, sir, my father the lieutenant commander did not have much of a sense of humor about such things.

Beast from the East

June 14th, 2010
8:03 pm

Tide Rising,
Maybe they’re just trying to make everyone forget about the last ballgame they played.

travy

June 14th, 2010
8:03 pm

tide rising- and i know so much more about research endowments now. exciting stuff!

G8R GRAD

June 14th, 2010
8:03 pm

Dang AG, it looks like you need a friend.
UT, A&M, OU & Co. have announced they’re staying.
I only hope A&M negotiated a stronger position while it had one!
BuLLdawg:
“Turns out you are just a wuss.”
Do you REALLY want to wake that sleeping giant (Gator)?!!!

Beast from the East

June 14th, 2010
8:04 pm

Be careful, AG. You’re showing your age!

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
8:05 pm

“Never apologize, son. It’s a sign of weakness.”

—-Capt. Nathan Brittles (as played by John Wayne) in John Ford’s “She Wore a Yellow Ribbon” (1949)

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
8:05 pm

Beast,

Its reminiscent of the 90s where it was UF-Bama for what seemed like forever and frankly I have no problem with that. Don’t think it’ll last forever with all the parity we have in the conference, espeically in the west. Have to tell you though that I may be pulling for the dawgs in the east. It depends. If we can beat you once in Tuscaloosa it would be a helluva lot to ask of us to beat you twice in one season. If we lose to you regular season than of course I would have to pull for you guys and hope we could get payback. In any event the regular season game alone should set up as one helluva game.

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
8:06 pm

Atlanta gator,

Naturally you would have to quote from one of the few john wayne movies I haven’t seen.

sccatfan1

June 14th, 2010
8:06 pm

I think the AD’s pushing the superconference concept are missing the crucial impact of natural border rivalries. Said another way, I’ll tune in to watch the Red River Classic (OU/TX)…will I be similarly excited to watch Texas/Oregon State? Nada. It’s the regional blood and guts games, complete with impassioned (psychotic?) fans that make for compelling college football (& basketball) matchups. To the extent that these games are marginalized by realignment, I think the college game suffers. To say nothing of the cost impact of non revenue sports traveling exhorbitant distances for their respect matches/games.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
8:07 pm

BuLLdawg—-

When you say that Alabama has SEVENTEEN national championships, please acknowledge that you are counting in DAWG YEARS.

Beast from the East

June 14th, 2010
8:09 pm

Tide Rising,
I’ll be pulling for someone else in West if UF can somehow manage to escape with a win at Bama. We’ll be underdogs but it should be entertaining.

BuLLdawg

June 14th, 2010
8:10 pm

And, both Georgia and the Georgia tek NATS (nerds) have six (6) National Championships in football :

http://www.nationalchamps.net/NCAA/database/georgia_database.htm

Not 5 NC by the polls, but 6 by the polls

Tide Rising

(Why are Alabama and Florida fans gutless arrogant posters) Is it because so many UGA Bulldog fans answer your direct questions differently – like we are great or something ?

We have been great.

We are NOT great and have not been great over the last 4 years, however, we beat a 4-loss Florida in 2007 for the ONLY LOSS vs SEC East teams the last 4 years for Florida 19-1 vs SEC East over last 4 years to our 10-10.

We are, however, for all-time, 6 NC, and Alabama 17, and we are # 11 in all-time wins 1-A still 31 behind Southern California in at # 10 after their 13 wins vacated yesterday.

Alabama is # 8. We have actually played Alabama better than others have. And, altough we have losing records to a vast number of teams, over history, we have done a lot better than we have done the last 4 years.

Isn’t Alabama on NCAA PROBATION ?

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
8:12 pm

sccarfan1,

“To the extent that these games are marginalized by realignment, I think the college game suffers.”

I couldn’t agree more. I hate the idea of losing big rivalries and as a kid my 2nd favorite rivalry behind the obvious Bama-AU was OU-Nebraska. I was disheartened when big 12 alignment reduced the frequency of that game and now I’m just plain disappointed that that legendary series is officially DEAD. Very disappointing for a college football purist.

Paul in RDU

June 14th, 2010
8:12 pm

sccatfan1 – While local rivalries play a strong part in CFB it is a little more complicated than that. Ask yourself this question – which game are you looking forward to seeing more in 2010 ALA-PSU or ARK-MSU?

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
8:13 pm

TR—-

If you haven’t seen the three movies in John Ford’s “Cavalry Trilogy,” you need to watch them once:

1. Fort Apache (1948)

2. She Wore a Yellow Ribbon (1949)

3. Rio Grande (1950)

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
8:14 pm

BuLLdawg,

Its okay with me if you bring up our probation. Just don’t be a meanie and make me apologize. I won’t stand for it I tell ya.

G8R GRAD

June 14th, 2010
8:16 pm

Now that all the super conference hoopla has been put to rest, let’s get back to what’s REALLY important:

2010 CFB season predictions!

1) UF beats UGA (and every other SEC East team;

2) UF loses MAYBE two (UA & FSU);

3) UF has a rematch against a battered UA in Atlanta; and

4) UF wins the SEC.

Okay?

Beast from the East

June 14th, 2010
8:18 pm

Bradley’s written a blog about Texas “saving college football”. I guess he wasn’t getting enough hits with the Larry Drew story.

G8R GRAD

June 14th, 2010
8:20 pm

Hey, TR:

Just a friendly poke.

; )~

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
8:21 pm

G8R GRAD—-

We are you conceding the FSU game? Let’s not let the Seminoles off the mat. We’ve got’em where we want’em!

Beast from the East

June 14th, 2010
8:21 pm

G8R GRAD,
No that is not ok!!! I will not accept a loss to FSU. I’ll take a loss to Bama on the road, but I have to respectfully decline the loss to the Semis. Bad blood, man. Bad blood.

Paul in RDU

June 14th, 2010
8:22 pm

BuLLdawg – If you are claiming all those MNC’s that means you are claiming the MNC for 1927. Since UGA lost the season ending game to GT 12-0 that year, do any of your fellow UGA fans think that GT was the real MNC that year? I’ve seen plenty of posts that UGA was the ACC champs in 2009 because they beat GT

BuLLdawg

June 14th, 2010
8:23 pm

Look, the NCAA gutless wonders do NOT recognize A NATIONAL CHAMPION IN FOOTBALL 1-A because BEFORE all this conference shake-up is done causing a true NC, not a 2-team play-off but at least a 4-team play-off ( + 1 ), the NCAA has an OFFICIAL NCAA FOOTBALL RECORDS BOOK. In it since they do NOT RECOGNIZE a 1-A NC in football, they LIST ALL NC by every poll.

Atlanta Gator said Vincent J. Dooley College Football Hall of Fame, who from 1980 to 1988 nine years had a better winning percentage than Coach Richt 2001 to 2009 nine years, “WANTED” to get a “SLICE” of the NC in 1968.

He got a SLICE in 1966, 1968 AND 1980.

Wally Butts got one in 1942 and 1946 and for 9 years from 1940 to 1948 ALSO had, like Vince Dooley, a consensus National Championship and had a better 9-year winning percentage 40-48 than Coach Richt too.

We have been great.

We just ain’t right now. And, it has been Coach Richt’s Coaching Staff the entire 9-year 27 losses of 38 games scoring no more than 2 Touchdowns with an Average of # 52 NCAA Total Offense the entire 9-Year Coach Richt Era, in which he is also # 5 vs Top 25 on game day in The SEC current coaches at their current school.

# 4 vs SEC over the last 4 years

# 3 vs SEC East over the last 4 years

is

NOT

what I expected after our first 5 years of this Coach Richt Era (with Jim Donnan recruits.)

I also don’t like this stuff that Stacy Reverend Stacy says that he will be clear with a statement coming out soon. We all know what happened, and it exactly the same as Michael Grant whom

ADMISSIONS

did

NOT

allow into UGA.

I also don’t care for 8 losses to non-Top 25 teams in the Final AP Poll over the last 9 years.

Nor do I care for 17-19 vs Top 25 Final AP Poll the last 9 years.

Mostly, I take exception to the 3-8 vs Top 10 Final AP Poll teams with none of the 3 wins in a bowl game the last 9 years.

We are NOT on the National Stage : Alabama is, Florida is and LSU damn sure has been better than UGA too.

I have a great memory, but short term, we SUCK over the last 4 years.

G8R GRAD

June 14th, 2010
8:24 pm

Ladies, LADIES!
Just being generous and gregarious!
Of course we stand an arguably good chance at going undefeated considering UA’s defensive secondary’s question marks.
Just softening up the opposition.

BuLLdawg

June 14th, 2010
8:25 pm

We also have a NC in 1927, by the very same polls that voted Georgia tek their National champions, all played by players NOT students at Georgia tek and in fact in the college football hall of fame with BOTH SCHOOLS LISTED they played for during the war years.

CrackDaddy

June 14th, 2010
8:27 pm

Now we can get back to the SEC screaming how great they are and how the ACC sucks.

G8R GRAD

June 14th, 2010
8:33 pm

CrackDaddy:

The ACC doesn’t suck.

Y’all play really good basketball!

BuLLdawg

June 14th, 2010
8:34 pm

Nebraska has won 2 of the last 7 games vs Oklahoma since they gave up trying to run the football every down for all-time in history.

Nebraska is and has been for some time now, a has been.

Nebraska SUCKS.

Small little place, no one cares about LOSING EVERY GAME.

Alabama – Auburn ? How in the living hell is that going away with the shake-up in conferences ? That is what you said. Explain how please ? I must have missed that. Is Alabama joining the Big XII (10) ?

Nebraska and Colorado suck.

Who cares what they do ?

Dostoyevskiy

June 14th, 2010
8:38 pm

CDaddy, I don’t think the ACC sucks. I think UNC is going to rival all SEC fb programs sooner than later. UNC has appeal for athletes. It just needed the likes of Butch.

BuLLdawg

June 14th, 2010
8:38 pm

I have little reason to ask you for an apology Tide Rising.

But, I do in my mind lump you and Atlanta Gator together as Arrongant Gutless posters trying to act so big in a Bulldogs’ Football Blog.

The truth is that Alabama not only is the only team on NCAA PROBATION in The SEC in football, but you HAVE BEEN THE MOST TIMES even more than Auburn since we last expanded.

You also have a coach who is a B.H. of the highest order calling UGA a cesspool when OUR GRADUATE OF THIS FINE SCHOOL even considered $ 750,000 to coach our defense.

I don’t care for Alabama, but I absolutely rooted for Alabama.

What was I going to do ?

Root for Texas ?

B.S.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
8:40 pm

Now, that’s the BuLLdawg that we all know and love.

Gotta run, guys. Dinner time.

Atlanta Gator

June 14th, 2010
8:41 pm

G8R GRAD

June 14th, 2010
8:42 pm

BuLLdawg:

“But, I do in my mind lump you and Atlanta Gator together as Arrongant Gutless posters trying to act so big in a Bulldogs’ Football Blog.”

In case you didn’t notice this blog is hosted by Mr. College Football.
Not Mr. Georgia Football.

Ed

June 14th, 2010
8:43 pm

Tony-

like I’ve been saying for months, much ado about nothing.

If I were you, I’d go back and enjoy my time off.

No story, SEC has NO CHANGES.

G8R GRAD

June 14th, 2010
8:44 pm

Bon appetit, AG!
Smoking wings on the Green Egg as we blog!

jumbeauxtiger

June 14th, 2010
8:45 pm

Atlanta Gator,

I’m a huge John Wayne fan and I know John Ford made him what he is but I prefer this trio of Director Howard Hawks’ films:

Rio Bravo(1959)
El Dorado(1967)
Rio Lobo(1970)

The latter 2 films were basically remakes of Rio Bravo.

Beast from the East

June 14th, 2010
8:45 pm

Bulldawg,
Since when is Tony’s blog a “Bulldogs’ football blog”?
Who’s arrogant?
This whole blog has been pretty civil until you came on here. Go back to the Junkyard Blawg, if they haven’t kicked you off yet.

BuLLdawg

June 14th, 2010
8:48 pm

G8R GRAD

Anytime. I have totally exposed Atlanta Gator.

So, yes I woke up that sleeping giant, and he is mine.

G8R GRAD

June 14th, 2010
8:50 pm

Jumbeaux!
Showing off his Hollywood acumen!

G8R GRAD

June 14th, 2010
8:50 pm

Sleep well BuLLdawg.

G8R GRAD

June 14th, 2010
8:54 pm

BuLLdawg:

Atlanta gator has three degrees for cryin’ out loud!
Two from UF and one from UVA.
Trust me, you are in over your head!

Paul in RDU

June 14th, 2010
9:02 pm

Dostoyevskiy – I understand your excitement for the UNC FB program – on paper they have a great D, Butch appears to have them moving in the right direction and I am sure that he will replace Yates with Renner if Yates performs the same in 2010 as previously. However, UNC still has to prove it on the field. You lost to UVA and NCSU last year with essentially the same team.

bad brad

June 14th, 2010
9:03 pm

BuLLdawg is not a dawg fan; he is a tech fan. Go back and read some other posts.

Paul in RDU

June 14th, 2010
9:05 pm

jumbeauxtiger – I love those 3 movies. I swear they had the lowest combined wardrobe budget in history since The Duke basically wore the same thing in all 3 of them.

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
9:06 pm

“;But, I do in my mind lump you and Atlanta Gator together as Arrongant Gutless posters trying to act so big in a Bulldogs’ Football Blog.

The truth is that Alabama not only is the only team on NCAA PROBATION in The SEC in football, but you HAVE BEEN THE MOST TIMES even more than Auburn since we last expanded.

You also have a coach who is a B.H. of the highest order calling UGA a cesspool”

BuLLdawg,

I see that I now am held in the arrogance hall of fame of along with Atlanta Gator. I had no idea I was in such esteemed company as the atlanta gator himself.

I do beg to differ with you on a couple of points. First this is not a dawg blog. Go over to Bill King for that. This is a general college football blog.

Secondly, we got hit with probation 3 times, once in the 90s, then the 2002-2005 probation, and now paper probation for the textbook thing. Georgia is actually tied for 3rd for the most major infractions cases brought by the NCAA with 6 major cases. I’ll provide more on that shortly.

Third, where did nick saban call georgia a cesspool? I’ve yet to see that from a credible source. Seems like that is a little nutty. Please provide your source on that allegation.

Last, I’m not mad. I about died laughing when I read that you called me and atl gator arrogant guys on a georgia blog. But I would appreciate I response, especially to the allegation that saban would call a fine institution like Georgia a “cesspool”.

Paul in RDU

June 14th, 2010
9:06 pm

bad brad – BuLLdawg is a UGA fan. All of his stats are about the Dawgs.

Paul in RDU

June 14th, 2010
9:12 pm

Tide Rising – Saban may not have called UGA a “cesspool”, but there are reports that when Kirby Smart was sitting on the DC offer from CMR, Saban made the comment that “the grass always grows greener over the sceptic tank”. If correct, it sounds like he called UGA a cesspool to me.

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
9:23 pm

Paul in RDU,

Actually I do remember reading that but when Saban said that he certainly wasn’t calling Georgia a cesspool. It can be taken out of context and be taken that way but generally it isn’t. That’s just an old West Virginia play on the old saying about grass growing greener on the other side. People can dislike Saban all they want but he’s not stupid enough to call Georgia a septic tank to a man who played and graduated from UGA. How dumb would that be? Saban did make clear that this was just a euphemism and that in no way, shape or form was Saban calling UGA a septic tank.

jumbeauxtiger

June 14th, 2010
9:25 pm

Paul in RDU
‘jumbeauxtiger – I love those 3 movies. I swear they had the lowest combined wardrobe budget in history since The Duke basically wore the same thing in all 3 of them.”

LOL I agree!

jumbeauxtiger

June 14th, 2010
9:27 pm

Tide Rising, so much for us making it thru the day without any insults being hurled :)

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
9:31 pm

jumbeaux,

It was actually pretty funny being lumped in with atlanta gator and being called an arrogant gutless poster trying to act big on a georgia blog. If its funny I’m not even sure I can call it an insult. Like the atlanta gator himself I’ll just chalk this one up to BuLLdawg being the ole BuLLdawg that we all know and love. Don’t know if you read his comment to me but if so you would probably chuckle too.

Paul in RDU

June 14th, 2010
9:45 pm

TR – Good point on the cesspool comment – and I agree on the meaning of the phrase related to “the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence”

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010
9:57 pm

Paul in RDU,

I would hope that if Saban was going to take a shot at someone it would be someone like Kiffin last year. The cesspool comment made little play in Alabama in that every one pretty much knew he wasn’t talking bad about Georgia. Saban did make one veiled comment last year the time after the ut game and before the AU game where he said that we don’t want moral victories. It was taken as a response to Kiffin talking smack over how close the Bama-UT game was. I’ve no problem with that of course. And I doubt anybody else would either.

jumbeauxtiger

June 14th, 2010
10:27 pm

TR, yep i did get a laugh. Never thought I see the day when you and Atl gator would be “lumped” together.

BuLLdawg

June 15th, 2010
6:16 am

We enter Coach Richt’s Crucial Season this up-coming season with a weekend full of bad press yet again, and this for a recruit commitment, our top recruit in a long, long, long, long time.

Mike Bobo offered Devin Burns of Dell McGee’s Carver Columbus Georgia High School a Scholarship on May 15 Friday 2009. On May 16, Mr. Burns was committing to UGA. He drove with his family from Columbus to Athens to make the commitment. After they all arrived, Georgia withdrew the Mike Bobo Scholarship offer made just the day before.

Dell McGee and Coach Richt spoke. Coach Richt told Dell McGee that he too would have banned UGA from recruiting his football players for quite some time. Coach Richt told Dell McGee, according to Dell McGee “He (Coach Richt) explained the situation and said they did a bad job of communicating,” McGee said. “He said he totally understands why I’m doing what I’m doing and said he’d do the same thing.”

Coach Richt obviously is not in the least happy with Mike Bobo. In the last few days we have reviewed the Mike Bobo recruitment of Zach Mettenberger, of Montez Robinson, of the # 2 Quarterback Recruit now again for 2011 from North Carolina with the big news Friday, and now this recruitment of Devin Burns, not playing football for Maryland Terrapins, a Quarterback, projected with his track background at Wide Receiver where he played in Texas High School before transferring to Carver.

Now, according to Dell McGee, Coach Richt said Mike Bobo did a BAD JOB OF COMMUNICATING and that Coach Richt said that he too would have banned UGA from recruiting his players.

“They are not going to recruit anybody, ” Dell McGee is quoted.

Corey Crawford Premier Defensive End was given Scholarship offers by Alabama, Florida, Auburn, Florida State, Louisville, Clemson, and Georgia as 1 of the nation’s premier defensive players. We lost out on him because of Mike Bobo’s mishandling the recruitment of Devin Burns.

Now, there is this little matter today of a Southern California Scholarship Defensive Beast from Carver and how he fits in with our new Defensive Scheme.

BuLLdawg

June 15th, 2010
6:17 am

Southern California says he cannot play. They have to shed 30 scholarships over the next 3 years. Here is 1. Cleared so far by every doctor not on the payroll at Southern California, he chooses between Florida State and Georgia. And, the AJ-C runs an article about it, not mentioning to you any of this.

But, I remember.

Mike Bobo recruiting again, rearing its ugly head as always, every single year.

Way to go Mike Bobo.

What do you think Mike Bobo about Coach Richt saying :

(1) Mike Bobo did a bad job of communicating in the rescinding of the scholarship offer to Devin Burns ?
(2) Mike Bobo is not doing a good job of taking care of the Offensive Coordinator’s job and he is taking control over it himself now for 2010, right after all this stink ?

Well Mike Bobo, what say you sir ?

Jarvis Jones, 3-4 Linebacker Beast is considered by 71 percent of all Bulldog fans to not be at risk for injury, and probably an NFL player, who is by the way eligible to play football this 2010 season and us with 2 Scholarships available and only 83 on Scholarship today of our 85 allotment. He could spell both Houston and Washington, but would have benefited with the NCAA not dragging its feet for 4 years on what was obvious December 2004 that a million dollar mansion cannot be provided for Reggie Bush by ANY ONE. How brazen.

BuLLdawg

June 15th, 2010
6:24 am

By the way, there is a blogger on David Hale’s blog this morning who states that we will lose only 1 game this year.

Of course, we only play 1 top team this year. But, we lose to not only the top teams, but to the lesser teams, especially in The SEC East – and, most especially in years in which we have not prepared our QB for the season such as 4-loss 2001, 4-loss 2006, 5-loss 2009 and now again according to everyone but this 1 blogger at but 1-loss 2010 while every one else has said no better than 10-3 or 9-4, which is my predication 10-3 or 9-4.

His reply is in response to Vincent’s post that 9-4 is what he thinks for 2010 for The Georgia Bulldogs’ Football team.

David Hale sees 3 SEC losses.

http://dawg-extra.blogspot.com/2010/06/fun-with-numbers-adding-it-all-up.html

Let’s see now, lose to Florida, beat South Carolina, beat Arkansas, beat Georgia tek, beat Tennessee vols, beat Auburn (DISNEYdawgs.com)

BuLLdawg

June 15th, 2010
6:35 am

By the way, too, David Hale says that Vandie and LSU have absolutely EQUIVALENT teams 2010 on the same blog URL Link.

BuLLdawg

June 15th, 2010
6:45 am

Tide Rising

June 14th, 2010 9:57 pm

“I would hope that if Saban was going to take a shot at someone it would be someone like Kiffin last year. The cesspool comment made little play in Alabama in that every one pretty much knew he wasn’t talking bad about Georgia.”

B.S. Nick Saban said it the very day that Kirby Smart was offered $ 750,000 by Coach Richt and in direct response to a question asked of Nick Saban by the media regarding it.

“I’m not pleased when guys make lateral moves because it’s a little bit human nature to think, like my dad used to say, the grass is always greener on top of the septic tank. You always think it’s better someplace else. You kind of let your ego get involved, and you make moves that you shouldn’t make and really aren’t in your best interests for a career standpoint. So I’m not happy when guys do that. But anybody on our staff who can move up, we would like to help them do that.”

Quit, cease and desist with your LIES Tide Rising. You have been called out sir.

Again.

You want to admit that Nick Saban DID SAY THIS about Kirby Smart ?

Or just sit there squirming in your seat for some NEXT LIE by you Tide Rising ?

Anonymous

June 15th, 2010
8:19 am

BuLLdawg, dude, it’s time to switch to decaf!

Hank

June 15th, 2010
10:55 am

The few teams who could compete in the SEC will not come because they would not be the big fish any longer. Texas could have made more money and have its own TV revenue but, the schedule would be to much for their opinion of themselves. Oklahoma is the only bump between them and the BCS as they know. Other conferences thought we were crazy for expanding and having a conference champion 20 years ago but, the result of our foresight is 4 national championships in a row. The Big 10 has been humiliated into following our lead kicking and screaming. The talking heads in Bristol, primarily Big 10 alums, have reluctantly admitted their conference has lost the aire of superiority they were sniffing for so long. SC has been castrated, the remainder of the conference pales in comparison, the ACC champ cannot beat a mid level SEC team, the Big East is comparable to the WAC but, not as good. So I guess when all the dust settles nothing will have changed. The SEC champ will still be in the NC game and everyone else is maneuvering for second place. All this crap about academics and endowments sounds like talk for losers.

OB-1

June 15th, 2010
1:31 pm

Dostoyevskiy and Atlanta Gator,
Atlanta Gator as regards your June 14th, 2010, 6:28 pm post you were incorrect in saying 4 of the top 5 were private as UNC is actually the 3rd ACC school ahead of BC, Wake, and GT which is listed as a public school also ahead of UF. UNC is ranked ahead of UF. US News reports that UVA is tied with UCLA for 2nd, UNC at 5th, GT at 7th, while UF is ranked 15th tied with Penn State and Texas with Maryland tied at 18th with Ohio State. UGA falls in at 21st right in front of Clemson at 22nd. The next SEC school would then be Auburn tied at 39 with only FSU behind them at 48th. Where student body size does have an effect, the real reason is the academic requirements that the schools have.

Dostoyevskiy,
It might also interest you to know that UVA and UNC were also listed as public schools comparable to the Ivy League Schools in academics and total feel of the campus and no SEC school was in the original list of eight, same number as the Ivy League schools, later it was expanded to 30 which added of Maryland and UF to that number. Duke and Vanderbilt were not listed as they are private and GT was an honorable mention.

Also another reason that FSU did not join the SEC was the fact they wanted to improve their basketball program and felt that by competing in the ACC would accomplish that.

Hank,
I would take a number of the ACC football teams over most of the SEC. The SEC is very top heavy with UF, Bama, and UGA, after them much of the SEC is beatable any given year. Auburn haven’t heard from them in a few years as LSU, Arkansas, UTenn, and the other USC. UF, Bama, and most years UGA are the class and would rank in anyone’s top 10 nationally. The rest are in any given year a top 25 team but not top 10.

Atlanta Gator

June 15th, 2010
7:02 pm

OB-1—-

I was quoting the US News national universities rankings, including both public and private, not the public-universities-only list. That having been said, I did screw up the order among Boston College, Wake Forest and UNC. Sorry about that.

The larger point remains, however. Vanderbilt would be the second-ranked school overall in a combined ACC-SEC, and Florida would be the fourth-ranked public school after UVa, UNC and Georgia Tech. UGA would fit very nicely, too, once they get past the whole UGA-GT food fight. UGA tops Clemson, NSCU, Virginia Tech and FSU. Auburn edges NCSU and FSU, and Alabama tops FSU. Bottom line: at least five SEC schools fall within the spectrum of the current academic rankings of the ACC.

Furthermore, the size of the student body does matter. With fairly elementary use of statistics, and assuming a standard normal distribution, I can easily show that Florida has an equal or greater number of top students than any of Virginia, North Carolina or Georgia Tech. Anecdotally, the fact that Florida has more National Merit Scholars than any of three is somewhat telling in and of itself. Florida is almost twice the size of UNC, over twice the size of UVa, and two and half times the size of Georgia Tech. If you don’t think those extra 22,000, 26,000 and 30,000 students pull the average high school GPA and SATs down relative to those of UVa, UNC and Tech, you don’t understand much about the mathematics and statistics of public university admissions.

Here are the ten largest single-campus public universities:

1. Arizona State

2. Ohio State

3. Central Florida

4. Minnesota

5. Texas

6. Florida

7. Texas A&M

8. Michigan State

9. South Florida

10. Penn State

Note that none are ranked above Florida in the US News rankings; Penn State and Texas are tied, even though their admissions criteria are marginally easier. Logically, if you combined UVa and Virginia Tech, or UNC and NCSU, or UGA and GT, to create a university of the size of Florida, what do you think would happen to the average freshman GPA and SAT scores? Please use that ACC education of yours, and think.