The SEC sure is being quiet on expansion

Okay, I tried to stay away. I tried to be a good boy and take time off and ignore the computer. But the expansion story is just too good. Some quick observations today. You already know most this stuff but I just want a chance to weigh in and get your thoughts.

1. The SEC is being awfully quiet in all this. Various media reports say Nebraska to the Big Ten is done and will be announced on Friday. There are also reports out there that very quietly, Mike Slive and his folks at the SEC could still invite Texas and Texas A&M if the Big 12 breaks up. Would Oklahoma and Oklahoma State come along? Yes, I know about the Pac-10 offer to the six Big 12 teams (Texas, A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Colorado). But as one official put it to me yesterday: Do you think DeLoss Dodds (the Texas athletics director) would rather send his women’s softball team to Pullman, Washington (home of  Pac-10 member Washington State) or Tuscaloosa, Ala? I know all about the academic arguments in favor of the Pac-10. I’ll believe it when I see it.

People keep telling me that the SEC should do nothing. But if the Pac-10 and the Big Ten both go to 16 teams, can the SEC stay with a pat hand?

There is absolutely nothing coming out of the SEC on this. This is as locked down as I’ve ever seen them. That should make some people nervous because Slive is one of those “speak softly and carry a big stick” kind of guys.

2. Can Texas, Texas A&M save the Big 12? Various media reports have officials from the two schools meeting today. Understand that Dodds and A&M athletics director Bill Byrne have the juice to hold the league together even if Nebraska and Colorado (to the Pac-10) both leave. The Big 12 can pick up TCU, which further strengthens the Dallas market. I would also pick up SMU. Great academics and a football program on the rise with June Jones as coach. If the Big 12 doesn’t fall apart, then this process could be relatively calm. But Texas could decide that staying in the Big 12 is simply delaying the inevitable breakup.

3. But does the Big Ten stop at 12 teams? In the short term it could happen. Commissioner Jim Delany recently put it out there that expansion for his league could come in stages. Because Delany’s grand plan could put two conferences (Big East, Big 12) out of business, perhaps he decides to go on the installment plan.

4. Forget Notre Dame. With Nebraska set to accept the Big Ten’s offer on Friday, I think it closes the door on Notre Dame becoming a member of that conference. I could see Notre Dame becoming the 12th member of the Big Ten. I can’t see the Irish being the 13th or 14th or 16th member. Now all of that could change if the Big East falls apart. The Notre Dame would have to find another home for men’s basketball and its non-revenue sports.

5. The Pac-10 will expand. Even if the grand plan (inviting six teams from the Big 12) does not come to pass, that conference will still add at least two teams (Colorado and perhaps Utah). The league is getting ready to negotiate its next TV contract in football and it has to bring someting new to the market place.  Here is another factor: The Pac-10’s  marquee program, The University of Southern California, is about to get hammered by the NCAA. The Pac-10 has gotta do something.

Stayed tuned. The next 24 hours could be really interesting.

748 comments Add your comment

HugoStiglitz

June 10th, 2010
9:36 pm

30144, yeah, ive mostly been following it on orangebloods and Chip Browns twitter. I have read a few things at various other sources as well but they may have been getting their info from orangebloods as well. I think Yeppie may be right. A&M could just be doing this for some negotiation power.

Yeppie

June 10th, 2010
9:38 pm

I did not know that Gen Stallings can have an abrasive personality. I know Texas people. They are very similiar to Texas people but if crossed the wrong way they can be fiesty. I am sure Gen Stallings is pulling all stops to bring power to atm. I have a feeling he just wants to cause Texas some grief or concern. It can try but the does not hold all the cards. Texas is holding the cards…

Delbert D.

June 10th, 2010
9:40 pm

30144Horn – So what you are saying is that they have to pay $10 million to leave the Big 12? By Monday, Kansas, Iowa State and their few remaining friends may be getting a big windfall.

CrackDaddy

June 10th, 2010
9:43 pm

Delbert, Delbert, that was almost 50 years ago. By the way, they could have used it last year. They would probably have made the tournament.

Delbert D.

June 10th, 2010
9:45 pm

This snippet from OrangeBloods is interesting:

“Orangebloods.com was the first to report Wednesday that Baylor, which has strong ties to the Baptist church, was being met with some resistance in the Pac-10, namely Cal-Berkeley, because of its religious affiliation.”

Well, now the Peoples Republic of Berkeley and the Peoples Republic of Boulder can do their collectivist thing together.

And if the Berkeley folks don’t like Baptists, I’m guessing they won’t approve of BYU.

HugoStiglitz

June 10th, 2010
9:45 pm

Delbert, you dont have to tweet to see Chip Browns twitter. Just go to http://twitter.com/chipbrownob. There hasnt been any new info in a few hours but there probably will be tons tomorrow.

Yeppie

June 10th, 2010
9:45 pm

Another great site that is very informative is
insidetexas.com

This site allows you to access other college info too.
just an fyi

Delbert D.

June 10th, 2010
9:46 pm

C-Daddy – I like grudges. I’m an old codger, you know. We get ornery as time goes by.

Yeppie

June 10th, 2010
9:48 pm

Delbert and Hugo..
I guess that would eliminate Notre Dame with the catholic affilation too. LOL… a little dry humor….
If Baylor or BYU would bring a major TV market they would be interested.

Dostoyevskiy

June 10th, 2010
9:49 pm

Talking about 2 teams hating each other. When SCar had Frank McGuire as coach and John Roche (spelling) at point guard (he was a great player), together with those other big nasty yankee bruisers, there was as much bad blood between UNC and SC fans than there ever has been between UNC and Duke. Man, those were the good old days for sure. SCar had some great teams in those days.

Delbert D.

June 10th, 2010
9:51 pm

Hugo – Thanks…from what I see there, it looks like the Big Ten communications with Texas last Friday may have spurred Nebraska to decide to commit. Bishop takes Knight, your move…

Yeppie

June 10th, 2010
9:52 pm

Decatur Dawg

June 10th, 2010
9:52 pm

I have seen the future of college football:

The superconf.s lead to a 4 team playoff – BIG ## champ v. PAC ## in the Rose and SEC champ v. top ranked other team in the Sugar on New Year’s. The two
winners play in Jerry Jones’ new stadium for the championship.

Dostoyevskiy

June 10th, 2010
9:54 pm

ON the subject of BYU. I went there recruiting in the early 1980’s. I momentarily forgot where I was one morning as I breakfasted in the school cafeteria and asked in a rather loud voice, “where is the coffee”. Given the looks I received, I felt as if I had just f-r-t-d aloud in a packed elevator.

30144Horn

June 10th, 2010
9:58 pm

gkketch is writing up a story about the internal fighting between atm and Texas per his tweet.

Delbert D.

June 10th, 2010
9:59 pm

John Roche…that brings back some memories. Cremins used to talk about him a lot. SC should have stayed in the ACC. But then, Cremins had Tech doing good stuff in the ACC.

I was on a business trip in the ’80s, watching the UNC-Tech game, and Dennis Scott stole the inbounds pass with 2 seconds left, almost layed down sideways in one motion and sank the 3 to win the game. If memory serves me correctly, it was the same day of the SF earthquake.

Golden Rules

June 10th, 2010
10:00 pm

What no de-caf?

Yeppie

June 10th, 2010
10:04 pm

You all have to goto http://www.insidetexas.com
atm are being typical aggies. Go ahead aggies… try to venture without your big brother Texas. Will not happen. This is a power play of an insecurity factor of being on the coat tails of Texas. VEry interesting article.

Delbert D.

June 10th, 2010
10:04 pm

The thing about the 2 BCS bids for the 16-PAC may be relevant, or not. My overloaded memory tells me I saw something about the BCS TV contracts expiring in a year or so. I’m hoping their won’t be a BCS after that.

Dostoyevskiy

June 10th, 2010
10:06 pm

I began watching college bb in 1957 when the Heels first won it all. Two back-to-back double OT wins I believe (Mich State and Johnny Greene, then Kansas and Wilt). I can’t believe that I was actually a Duke fan in the late 50’s/early 60’s. Duke had Howard Hurt, John Frye, et. all. THe Iron Five. Then I grew up (figuratively and literally) and matriculated at UNC. It does not get any better than Duke-UNC. They thrive off of each other.

Delbert D.

June 10th, 2010
10:07 pm

Dostoyevskiy – I think I’ll keep a couple of beers by the front door and offer them to the boys in the white shirts on bicycles when they come ‘a knockin’. That should be fun.

Tim

June 10th, 2010
10:08 pm

Hey cool aid drinkers, all of you. First of all Vanderbilt ain’t going anywhere. Vanderbilt is an AAU school and finished in the top 25 in both baseball and basketball. We love the SEC and the big payoff. Dream all you want. Second, the SEC does not need or want GT, Clemson, FSU or Miami. Those TV markets are already locked up. So here is how it will go. Slive will offer the Texas schools. If they refuse, he will offer Virginia Tech and one other school. He does not want to use up all his bullets this round in the event other opportunities open up in the future. That means not expanding to 16. The other school will probably be either Maryland, West Virginia or Missouri. All 3 represent new markets. Kansas City and St Louis are huge markets. Furthermore, the politics of existing SEC states will not permit the offering of the schools whose States are already represented in the conference.

Yeppie

June 10th, 2010
10:09 pm

WHAT AN ARTICLE. atm may actually try to rufffle some feathers. So typical. Bad enough that an inferior conference was the downfall of the big 12 now an inferior school insulting the one that brought them to market.
article location insidetexas.com

Yeppie

June 10th, 2010
10:09 pm

WHAT AN ARTICLE. atm may actually try to rufffle some feathers. So typical. Bad enough that an inferior conference was the downfall of the big 12 now an inferior school insulting the one that brought them to market.
article location insidetexas.com

Yeppie

June 10th, 2010
10:12 pm

sorry about the resend. The keyboard is very sensitive.

Delbert D.

June 10th, 2010
10:13 pm

from insidetexas.com -

“The UT faculty would have a s—storm if Texas joined the SEC,” our source said, citing the relatively poor academic track record of its member institutions. Only two SEC universities (Vanderbilt, Florida) are members of the prestigious Association of American Universities, designating the top 63 research institutions in the country.”

Hey, a source that must have been following my posts here on Barnhart’s blog. Thanks, insidetexas.com.

Nah, I can’t claim credit for that. Anybody could have figured that out.

Delbert D.

June 10th, 2010
10:20 pm

Tim – Okay, Vanderbilt doesn’t want to go anywhere. But as to Virginia or Maryland going to the SEC, see the quote above about the “s—storm.” On the other hand, Missouri may not have many choices. I think they must have ticked Notre Dame off with some reluctance, or something. Maybe the SEC will get a new AAU member.

Delbert D.

June 10th, 2010
10:22 pm

Tim – Louisville will very likely will be available. UK would get another OOC game in the bargain, so they’d probably vote them in.

Yeppie

June 10th, 2010
10:26 pm

Delbert… Your a wise person and humble. I salute you for having the info and I think you should get all credit. I know all this expansion stuff is money driven. HOwever, there is prestige or honor when a univeristy maintains or raises its academic requirements.

Yeppie

June 10th, 2010
10:33 pm

Louisville will be a fun team to watch over the next few years. I wish them much success. They should be able to recruit. Close to the Ohio area and can get some some other players in the fold. May have some legs in a few years….

jp17

June 10th, 2010
10:33 pm

Delbert D. no one really cares about your AAU membership comments over and over again. This forum is about about conference expansion; specificly relating to football. Vanderbilt has not one a single game based on any membership.

paul

June 10th, 2010
10:34 pm

Sec will only invite Fsu and miami to keep the three florida schools together thats it georgia tech wont get an invite maybe clemson

Yeppie

June 10th, 2010
10:41 pm

jp17.
Actually the AAU memberships are important. Not only does it show a prestigeous degree. It also brings in revenue. Research revenue, that makes football revenue look like chump change. If the government hands over a 100 million dollor research grant. It brings more prestige to the university and alumni. It is like choosing to ride in kia or ride in a Lexus.

IT is informative and people do care as it is important.

Tim

June 10th, 2010
10:47 pm

No Delbert. Like you and everybody else I have my preferences for expansion. But that represents emotion, not practicality. The reason for expansion is money, lots of it. That means new TV markets. This is why the Texas schools will get the first right of refusal, but I think they will refuse. Slive will then turn to the next best available untapped TV market, Virginia Tech. Virginia is the 14th maybe 13th most populous state. Slive will then probably add just one more school. He does not want to be responsible for dramatically altering the ACC, and besides, he wants to hold open two positions for greater future possibilities. Who his second pick will be is highly speculative, but it very well could be a Missouri that brings a large TV market, plus I believe it it an AAU school.

Dostoyevskiy

June 10th, 2010
10:47 pm

jp17, who are you speaking for when you say “no one really cares”? Do you speak for all “no one’s”?

Delbert D.

June 10th, 2010
10:49 pm

Well, here’s the thing on the Big Ten and their exclusive requirements. That conference has always been different. In the 50s and 60s, when everybody else was playing 10 games, the Big Ten played 9 games. The same team wasn’t allowed to go to the Rose Bowl in consecutive years. Until 1975, Big Ten teams went only to the Rose Bowl. Different.

From the beginning, they have been locked together in the AAU. They collaborate on research grant proposals. They have been very successful in that regard. Billions in grants over the years.

They tried the Big Ten cable network, and it has been a huge success. Different. The PAC-10 wants to do one now.

They are evaluating potential new members very strictly. Any new member (other than Notre Dame) must be an AAU member. Notre Dame is still not moving; otherwise the would have been #12. They have expressed concern about bing in a larger diluted conference. The Big Ten then made the offer to Nebraska. The Big Ten’s backup plan for the New York market includes Rutgers. Not the huge NY market that ND would have attracted, but it is more cable TV subscribers in that area. “The local boys are playing Michigan this weekend,” that sort of thing.

These guys have been together for decades, and nobody is going to sway them from their own chosen path. They have the big TV money. They have the big research funding. There is certainly some hubris, some arrogance that goes along with that, but that’s their deal; they don’t deviate from a plan.

coach smith

June 10th, 2010
10:52 pm

Texas AIN’T coming….they say it is because of ACADEMICS!!!!! LOL! The truth is they don’t want to have to PLAY A REAL SCHEDULE! Texas would rather go to the pac-10 and be in a division with Az, AzSt, Colorado, Texas AM, and so on rather than have to play UGA, FLA, BAMA, AUB, LSU etc every year!

coach smith

June 10th, 2010
10:56 pm

the teams that make the most sense for the SEC (if Texas stays chicken) are Clemson, FSU, VaTech, they all actually play defense, sell out stadiums, and are the closest to an SEC feel…don’t know the 4th one because GaTech CANNOT and WILL NOT want to try and compete in this league with that offense and they can’t compete in recruiting….Miami has ZERO fan base and can’t sell out games, so that won’t happen….Maybe UNC?????

coach smith

June 10th, 2010
10:59 pm

Delbert D.

Apparently nobody read that UGA is in the top 10 as far as athlete academics and athletes getting degrees…UGA is just behind Norhtwestern and Stnaford for crying out loud

Delbert D.

June 10th, 2010
11:01 pm

Tim – Yeah, I really like to watch SEC football. I watch every Georgia game, and every Alabama, Florida, Tennessee Auburn and LSU as they are available and don’t conflict. I watch every Georgia Tech game. I watch Clemson when I can. I like the west coast games. I like Navy and Michigan, Navy and Notre Dame, and the big Big Ten games. Texas Oklahoma, must-see. I love college football. Pro football, not as much.

Golden Rules

June 10th, 2010
11:04 pm

Hey Coach…how much is a three point shoot worth? ugump graduates athletes BFD!

jp17

June 10th, 2010
11:05 pm

Yeppie
AAU memberships are very important but not to bring up in every post. This website is basicly a big what if, that is for entertainment. My point was that in every post D. D. mentions it as if it was going to drive the big money conferences and the fact that the first 10 times it was brought up no one bit on it basicly says no one wants to talk about it.

Delbert D.

June 10th, 2010
11:23 pm

coach smith – Graduation rates, sure. No dispute. The topic of expansion is pretty broad. The guys at the top are the decision makers. From my view here in the state, just about everybody has been PO’d at Adams since day one, or at least since he dumped Vince Dooley. Well, he’s the decision maker, and unlike the state of Texas, the University System of Georgia Regents don’t represent a lot of BCS schools. I’m sure he likes the football money, but who knows what else that guy really wants? Other than Florida, the other SEC presidents are pretty much in the same situation. They are going to make the decisions on expansion. Slive is their working level manager.

We get to have fun trying to figure out what’s likely to happen. I’ll surely be glad when practices start in August.

Yeppie

June 10th, 2010
11:26 pm

Coach Smith
Where have you been for the past few years. Granted I will yield that the SEC is the most talented and competitive.
Excluding the weak big 12 north. Texas played every year Oklahoma, Texas Tech, Texas AM, oklahoma state. Also, they would throw in a easy ooc but would schedule an Ohio State and Arkansas too.
This was the first bcs bowl game lost to alabama (not making an excuse, but if Colt McCoy would not have been injured-Texas would have had the 17 to 0 at the end of the first quarter) BCS games-win Michigan, BCS champ game beat USC, Beat Ohio State.. Lost to alabama, and any true college football follower will always wonder what if McCoy would have been healthy.

The fact is Texas has higher academic standards than the typical SEC school.

Again, I give you the SEC is the most competitive, but if you isolate the big 12 south as an individual unit it is just as talented and competitive.

Yeppie

June 10th, 2010
11:29 pm

The school that would not play anbody was clearly USC. With the pac 10 expansion taking place it will again be the strong east (former big 12 south) beating up the west. Just like the Big 12 of the past. Ths south beating up the north.

Delbert D.

June 10th, 2010
11:32 pm

I don’t think any more news is going to break tonight, so I’m logging out. I appreciate the conversations.

Yeppie

June 10th, 2010
11:33 pm

If there is an overated conference that would be the big 10. Ohio state is the only real cosistent performer. I would put any half decent big 12 south team or SEC team against the top big 10 school and would think Ohio state would lose. Certainly all the other big 10 schools would.

Yeppie

June 10th, 2010
11:39 pm

Not to mention the powder puff pac 10. The worse SEC team would look great if in the pac 10 conference of the past.

Anyhow… hope everyone has a good evening. College football is fun. Take care.

RollTide

June 10th, 2010
11:44 pm

It makes no sense to invite GT, Miami, FSU. The SEC already has markets in those areas. One option would to go get Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State if the SEC wants to expand to a 16 team conference. Another option is to go get VT and WVA.

Hairy Dawg

June 11th, 2010
12:23 am

SEC don’t want no pointy headers messing up the football. We need ship Vandy out and not waste breaht on ACC teacher pet dunces or snooty Tex. Then we sign up Okla, AM, Mizzou, and FSU to balancing. That keeping SEC best with top bowl and wining champsionships.