If the SEC asked, would/should Georgia Tech say yes?
Not long after the conference expansion issue really started to heat up, I found myself in a charity golf foursome with a couple of Georgia Tech guys. We were waiting to hit, so I just asked them point blank:
“If Georgia Tech got an invitation to leave the ACC and join the SEC, would you vote to go?”
Response No. 1: “In a New York minute.”
Response No. 2: “Can we go today?”
Now look, Georgia Tech has had a very good football home in the ACC since 1983. It is the defending ACC champions. And the situation got a lot better on Monday when the ACC landed a very good television deal with ABC/ESPN that will pay the league $155 million per year. In this economy, the ACC essentially doubled their money from the previous contract and that is quite an accomplishment. A number of people (this writer included) thought that the numbers might be lower so give the ACC kudos for getting that deal done.
Having said all that, there are two questions we will ponder today:
How/Why does Georgia Tech get on the SEC’s radar?
Why would/should Georgia Tech even consider leaving the ACC?
First, some history: Georgia Tech was a charter member of the Southeastern Conference in 1933 and remained in the league through the 1963 season, when the school withdrew and became a Southern Independent. We won’t debate the reasons why or the wisdom of Georgia Tech’s move. The fact is that Tech was a member of the SEC for 31 years.
People of a certain age will remember going to Grant Field and watching Georgia Tech, as a member of the SEC, play in some of the best rivalries in all of college football. The Georgia rivalry you know about, but did you know:
That Georgia Tech and Auburn have played 92 times? Tech first played Auburn in 1892 and from 1904 to 1987 the schools met every year but two (1905, 1943).
That even after it left the SEC, Georgia Tech also kept playing Tennessee? Between 1964 and 1987 Georgia Tech and Tennessee met every year but three (1974, 1975, 1978).
That there was no fiercer rivalry in the 1960s than the one between Alabama and Georgia Tech? Bear Bryant and Bobby Dodd were friends until the 1961 game, when Tech’s Chick Graning received a blow to the head from Alabama’s Darwin Holt. It broke Graning’s jaw and nose and put him in the hospital. The episode touched off a war of words between newspapers in the two states and drove a wedge between Bryant and Dodd. A year later Alabama came to Grant Field with an 8-0 record and ranked No. 1. Georgia Tech handed Alabama its only loss that season, 7-6. After the 1964 game the two teams did not play again until 1979. They played six straight years until 1984 and have not played since. They were scheduled for a two-game series in 2013 and 2014 but those games have now been postponed.
The point is that Georgia Tech has a lot of history with the current members of the SEC.
Here is how Georgia Tech could get an invitation from the SEC: If the Big Ten expands to 16 teams and exponentially increases its revenue (now at about $22 million per team), the SEC, which pays about $17 million per team, will have a decision to make. If the SEC decides that it must expand as well, some teams from the ACC could come into play if the SEC wants to strengthen its Southeastern footprint.
Whether or not the SEC would extend an invitation to Georgia Tech is a matter of some debate. The argument could be made that with the University of Georgia, the SEC already controls the state’s market place. But the same argument could be made about Clemson (because of South Carolina) and Florida State (because of Florida).
Why Georgia Tech would say yes:
1) More money. Georgia Tech needs it. Even with the ACC’s new contract, there will be about a $4 million gap in shared revenue per team. If the SEC expands, that gap could grow.
2) Easier scheduling. If Georgia becomes a conference game, then Tech has another non-conference game to play with. That would guarantee at least seven home games a season. That is also more money.
3) Better attendance: Bobby Dodd Stadium holds 55,000. With Paul Johnson in place, attendance is picking up as over 50,000 turned out for five of six games last season. The year before (2008) only one game drew over 50,000 (Florida State). But what if Georgia Tech were placed in an SEC division that included Clemson, Georgia, Florida, Florida State, Miami, South Carolina and Tennessee? How great would the demand for tickets be? How much more would people pay just for the right to buy them? More money.
Why Georgia Tech would say no:
1) The school has 27 years invested in the ACC. It has become a good fit for the Institute, both philosophically and academically.
2) Winning the ACC football championship is hard. Winning the SEC is harder. That’s just a fact. Writer Rick Bragg once said that every SEC game “is like a knife fight in a ditch.”
3) You can’t go back. As much as the old guard romanticizes about good old days the fact remains that it’s been 47 years since Tech left the SEC and the world has really changed.
So if you’re a Georgia Tech fan and you got a vote, would you vote to go back to the SEC if the invitation came? Or do you think the ACC is still the best place for the Yellow Jackets?
If you’re an SEC fan, would you like to see Georgia Tech come back?
The floor is yours.
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661 comments Add your comment
Paul Johnson
May 18th, 2010
10:52 am
Yeah, Mark, I wasn’t alive for any of them, but I hear that Heisman fella ran a hell of a wing T.
CalGatorBrotha
May 18th, 2010
10:53 am
As a Gator….I say no way does the SEC need a GT….
Tech Man
May 18th, 2010
10:53 am
I think it would be great for the program.GT regrets ever leaving the SEC to begin with.GT would be the power in the State for years to come and the muts would be all alone. The recruiting would get a lot better and man oh man THE MONEY!! GO JACKETS
Dan
May 18th, 2010
10:54 am
Sugar Hill Dawg, we’ve had four defensive linemen drafted in the last two years.
If you define talent by how many players get drafted (debatable I think), then there is no lack of talent in the ACC.
UGA1997, I would encourage you to reread your initial posting. You sounded really gay – not that there’s anything wrong with that. And your reading comprehension skills are borderline retarded. Please tell me you’re a Wal-Mart fan and not an alum.
Long Gator
May 18th, 2010
10:54 am
None of this matters to the Gator Nation. We will dominate regardless
of any scenario.
Gators rule !!!
murfdawg
May 18th, 2010
10:59 am
The only thing I remember about GT leaving the SEC, was Bobby Dodd wanted to be the Notre Dame of the South and keep all the bowl money for himself. He was constantly at war with the Mississippi schools about playing home and home games. GT was going 7-3 most years before the pull out, which made the school look ok but not great. Dodd wanted a softer schedule and more home games, which would mean more money. I’m not sure about this, but I think the SEC had a limit on scholarships and independent schools did not. (look at Pittsburgh under Johnny Majors). While Dodd’s heart was in the right place to do what he thought was best for GT, the climate of college football changed and it did not work out the way he planned. However, the prevailing attitude of the majority of Tech fans for the last 40 years has been one of “We don’t need the SEC and we are better off in the ACC.” Now that attitude has come back to haunt them.
p.s. The best thing about GT being in the ACC is, I get to see Duke play basketball every year in Atlanta.
Tony -- Time to Shut Up!
May 18th, 2010
11:00 am
When will Tony stop rambling about expansion and the SEC??? He sounds like a drunk sailor with too much time on his hands…Slive is bluffing. And the SEC cant even afford to expand without cutting payouts!
Leave the ACC as it is…no one wants to hop over to the sespool SEC.
» SEC links: Patric Young ready to make an impact at Florida John Clay’s Sidelines
May 18th, 2010
11:02 am
[...] Tony Barnhart of the AJC asks whether Georgia Tech would say yes to an invitation from the SEC? [...]
UGA1997
May 18th, 2010
11:04 am
Dan, I would encourage you to stop reading blogs to see if you can twist them to satisfy your perverted needs. You are either a middle schooler or using your internet pass at one of the many institutional facilities here in GA.
KJ
May 18th, 2010
11:07 am
LOL @ the “academics” argument. The gnats have really sunk to a new low in retardedness with this one. Last I checked, Vanderbilt is in the SEC, and their academics blow away anything going on at NATS.
Captain
May 18th, 2010
11:08 am
Tony I continue to be amazed at your campaign for GT to join the SEC. I will ask the question again, ‘what value would GT bring to the SEC’? NONE. Expansion isn’t about adding schools solely to add schools, it is about bringing value to the franchise. GT, Clemson would bring no value to the conference. Value is DOLLARS, TV revenue. Expansion adding GT, Clemson, FSU would do nothing to enhance the reach of the SEC nor the penetration of TV market share.
If the SEC expands the most logical financial expansion would seeming be Texas, A&M, Oklahoma from the Big 12. Those schools add the DAllas TV market, #7 nationally, Houston, San Antonio thus adding a huge pop to the potential TV market. Consider adding Rutgers, why? That gives the SEC entry into the New York TV market which is #1, the Philadelphia and New Jersey markets which are #4 nationally. Thus an expansion into Texas and New Jersey would bring on board the #1, #4, #7, #10, TV markets (Atl is #9 as I recall), thus adding millions of viewers. Contrast that to adding GT, Clemson, FSU. There is none. It is about money and TV viewers which equals revenue. The SEC cannot afford to be strictly a regional franchise, it has already penetrated this market, it needs to expand into other areas.
Mark Richt
May 18th, 2010
11:10 am
It’s okay Paul. We just can’t seem to get over the fact that Hershell is gone.
Paul Johnson
May 18th, 2010
11:10 am
Yes! Legit national titiles! Just like the one in 1990 where we beat #14 Nebraska in the Citrus Bowl! Man, that was a tough matchup. Well, by ACC standards, anyway. And don’t forget the one in 1904 where 3 guys voted by telegraph.
skeered
May 18th, 2010
11:11 am
little yeller skeeters skeered of big burly bama. will play middle tennessee instead
Paul Johnson
May 18th, 2010
11:12 am
I know, Mark. We can’t get over the fact that Herschel didn’t consider us.
Clarification
May 18th, 2010
11:13 am
Nebraska was #19 in the Citrus Bowl.
Tech Man
May 18th, 2010
11:15 am
KJ…..What are you on man!! Most SEC players that your are so custom to watching and if you are a MUT fan.. watching the news on the latest arrests!! They would never make it at TECH!!!!!!!!
Go Jackets
Emit Fitzhume
May 18th, 2010
11:15 am
Georgia Tech has a football team?
GT Alum
May 18th, 2010
11:16 am
One question I asked on the GT blog yesterday about this subject that I haven’t seen an answer to.
Most teams play 11-12 regular season football games a year. How is the scheduling supposed to work for a super-conference. If there’s 2 8-team divisions, would you play the other 7 teams in your division plus rotate through the other division play 4 games each year? If there’s 4 4-team divisions as I’ve also heard discussed, I’m not even sure how that would work – play the other 3 in your division plus 2 from each of the other 3 divisions? That would only add 1 conference game for teams who play in a 12-team conference, but you’d presumably lose a regular season game because of having a two round conference playoff. Under the 8-team divisions, though, it looks like teams would play 11 conference games a season. That leaves at most 1 out of conference game per season under the 8-team configuration, and 2 under the 4-team configuration.
Would a team like UGA really want their only out-of-conference game to be their cross-state rival? It seems to me, if SEC expansion happens and GT doesn’t go to the SEC, the annual rivalry game could be in jeopardy, which I would think neither school nor their fans wants to have happen.
Not Yet
May 18th, 2010
11:19 am
Honestly, outside of Alabama, I don’t see an SEC team trending upward for several years. And please spare me the Arkansas, ESPN crush….but an obvious uptick for GT, VT, FSU, Miami, Clemson, UNC recently…interesting to see how it all plays out this year…may be a stupid idea by season end
GT Alum
May 18th, 2010
11:20 am
Also, I think the reason a lot of puppies don’t want Tech back in the SEC is that it will immediately bolster Tech’s credibility and clout with regard to football. They’re worried that a Tech in the SEC would steal some of their limelight and would enable them to compete more evenly with UGA in recruiting — and they’re right. It would also end their ability to joke about Tech not filling up the stadium for football games.
SEC links: Florida’s Patric Young ready to make impact « MrSEC.com
May 18th, 2010
11:20 am
[...] Tony Barnhart of the AJC asks whether Georgia Tech would say yes to an invitation from the SEC? [...]
Clarification
May 18th, 2010
11:20 am
Tony, Tech’s attendance didn’t go up last year because of Paul Johnson. It was because they had VT, Clemson, and UGA at home. Attendance will go back down this year, with teams like Duke, SC State, and MTSU headlining the home slate.
Thirty Points To Your Twenty-Four Points
May 18th, 2010
11:21 am
you STUPID, BLIND Tech fanbase….. you REALLY piss me off.
You morons sit back and try and bash the SEC every chance you get. You throw up your hands screaming “ACC Champs!” whenever a “Who’s Better” debate breaks out……
BUT….. when Barnhart starts fantasizing about Tech being invited back to the SEC (which will NOT happen), you idiots revamp your attitude, and start thinking how awesome it would be to be part of the greatest conference in the land. Sit on it you Nerds. You are like a bunch of robots doing and agreeing to whatever your “manboobs” High School Coach tells you to do. I just hope that soon includes drinking the vat of purple kool aid.
{{{{30-24}}}}}
8-1
60-39-5
We. Run. This. State. (AND your conference)
Hatfieldgeoff
May 18th, 2010
11:23 am
I’ll tell you what, the SEC will trade Vandy, Mississippi State and Kentucky for Georgia Tech and Clemson. Then we are going to turn around and trade Tech to the Mountain West for a BCS Buster to be named later.
Dan
May 18th, 2010
11:24 am
Sure thing, UGA1997. Stay classy.
No SEC
May 18th, 2010
11:24 am
Not sure who the two Tech guys were… but I would rather see Tech in the ACC
The ACC is a much better all around conference as opposed to the SEC. SEC is stronger in football, but the SEC also has more guys sent to jail…
BAMA1
May 18th, 2010
11:25 am
Should have known Dawg fans would be upset about the idea. just have another blackout, and see what happens.
Dan
May 18th, 2010
11:25 am
Thirty points, the only thing you run is a Taco Bell drive-thru.
help, I live in Ga
May 18th, 2010
11:27 am
Ramble On–Did you go to school in Midtown? Did you just quote Whitney Houston in a football debate?
You, Ramble On, are the best arguement I’ve heard so far for not inviting GaTech to the SEC. Our football pants are exit only.
Second–You can’t have small stadium and join the SEC. Unless your Vanderbilt. So Ga Tech would have to build a new stadium. 150,000 seats. But where?
I say they build one side of the stadium on the east side of the connector and the other on the west side. They can put turf on top of the downtown connector and play through the traffic. Sort of a demolition derby/football game. The fans would love it. The ramblin wreck could be used as a defensive weapon and the dawgs could buy drugs from passing cars. I’d pay to see that. Then they could join the SEC.
Hatfieldgeoff
May 18th, 2010
11:28 am
Hey GT Alum, Glad you can finally admit that the SEC has more credibility and clout in football than the ACC. Now, please explain to me why the SEC would want cast-offs from an inferior conference.
KJ
May 18th, 2010
11:28 am
Tech Man – Cocaine’s a helluva drug, I hope you get the help you need.
Not Yet
May 18th, 2010
11:29 am
As a neutral party that attends both school’s home games on a regular basis…the real problem here has been the lack of co-ed talent in the UGA stands over the past 10 years….the higher academic standards have ruined the eye candy. Alot of thick thighs in sun dresses that make them look pregnant…and plese spare me the attitude just b/c ur in a UGA sorority….on the other hand…I have to say it has vastly improved @ Bobby Dodd and for my money is becoming quite competitive….go Georgia State
CT_Jacket
May 18th, 2010
11:30 am
The SEC is mostly made up of big flagship state schools. Their operating budgets are huge. If Tech were in the SEC, even with the additional money, we would be way behind (#33 – $43M). The ACC is the best fit now (6th of 12). I assume that any additional money that Tech would get by being in the SEC would be offset by additional money that the other SEC schools get by expansion. We would likely be as successful as Arkansas, Auburn and South Carolina, maybe slightly less due to the academic standards, ala Vandy.
Top 25 Budgets
#4 FL $78M
#6 TN $71M
#7 GA $69M
#10 AL $62M
#13 LSU $61M
#17 UK $55M
#20 AUB $51M
#24 ARK $47M
#9 VA $63
#14 FSU $57
#16 UNC $55M
If FSU, Miami, Clemson, VT or others leave, I would still stay in the ACC and try to pick up a combination of Pitt (AAU), UConn, South Florida and/or Central Florida, Cincinnati or Louisville or maybe Syracuse (AAU).
kgator79
May 18th, 2010
11:31 am
UGA fan pounding their chest about “we run this state?” Really? Is running the state of Georgia something special? Good to know that you feel you are better than the ONE other D1A school in the state. Sorry, but until Georgia becomes the equivelent to California, Texas or Florida then maybe you can pound your chest on how powerful the UGA program is running their state.
Thirty Points To Your Twenty-Four Points
May 18th, 2010
11:31 am
Dan….
TYPICAL response from a Tech fan. You simply cannot argue any of the facts I laid out for you, so you jump to an academic insult.
Do you truly believe every person in the world aspires to be a socially-awkward engineer, dedicating their lives to understanding the physics of Star Wars?? YOU chose Tech, Tech did NOT chose you. UGA is anything but a university full of Tech turn-downs. You act like the hundreds of thousands of college kids in America that didn’t chose to go to your geeky little school, were declined admission.
back to football talk….. {{{{{30-24}}}}} WE. RUN. THIS. STATE.
kgator79
May 18th, 2010
11:32 am
By the way…we all know the Gators run the state of Georgia anyway.
JW
May 18th, 2010
11:33 am
help, I live in Ga
2 teams in the SEC have stadiums smaller than GT’s
idiot
Dan
May 18th, 2010
11:35 am
Do you understand the difference between fact and opinion, thirty points?
Thirty Points To Your Twenty-Four Points
May 18th, 2010
11:36 am
kgator…..
Why are you here? Do Tech or UGA fans go on to the FSU/UF blog arguments??
For YEARS, the UGA/Tech game is also known as the State Championship Game. TEch had their once-a-decade fluke win in 2008 and didnt shut up about it for 364 days. This year when the WORST UGA team in 20 years, beat the BEST TEch team in 20 years, UGA is SURELY going to remind the Nerds every chance we get.
Argue all you want about the number of D1 school sin your state, but you are the one reading the AJC, most likeley living in the Metro Atlanta Area, simply because your state sucks so bad you don’t want to live there.
2HLLWGA
May 18th, 2010
11:38 am
The ACC is definitely the right place for us, both academically and athletically. We compete well in both, whereas we would become another Vandy in the SEC. Not where we want to be.
GT has won 4 out of 16 ACC Championships this year – it is hard to imagine having the chance to be champions like this in the SEC, given the “fierceness” that is invloved to compete on a level playing field in the ACC.
Thirty Points To Your Twenty-Four Points
May 18th, 2010
11:39 am
Dan, you sill wont argue the football points.
You only want to attack academic and personal levels.
{{{{{3024}}}}} SO glad it hurts you more than you will EVER admit. and that makes me
help, I live in Ga
May 18th, 2010
11:39 am
JW, So you don’t think my connector stadium idea will fly?
no big deal
May 18th, 2010
11:39 am
either conference is fine with me..playing FSU, Clemson, VT, UNC, Miami are no cake walk. At one time, Maryland and BC were also in that mix. IF GT beats them, then the narrow minded SEC fans think they are no good as opposed to GT being a good team. Didn’t see Tn beating VT or Ky beating CLemson in the bowl games so not sure where all the arrogance comes from. Yes, GT lost to UGA but upset them the year before when they were ranked higher so what does that prove? If there are no additions, maybe GT should trade with SC and let them play on Tobacco Road.
steverino
May 18th, 2010
11:41 am
As a Tech fan, I always root for the rest of the ACC teams, when they are not playing GT. I can’t imagine cheering for Bama, Auburn, Florida or LSU for any reason. I think the conferences are ALREADY too big. Shave the conferences down to 10 teams each. That will give you 9 conference games and 3 non-conference games a year. Play EVERY team in your conference EVERY year, and there will be no need for any of these lame conference championship games. I realize that this will never happen. CFB is one of the best things going, but the powers that be seem hell bent on tampering with it until people will stop caring.
BamaU
May 18th, 2010
11:45 am
And Alabama runs the state of Florida
NCDawg
May 18th, 2010
11:47 am
It would be best for Tech to stay in the ACC – it’s a better fit for a lot of reasons. Tech would have a more difficult time competing in the SEC on a regular basis – it also does nothing for their other programs like basketball. The only reason I could see them consider leaving is if the ACC loses some schools to expansion by other leagues.
Thirty Points To Your Twenty-Four Points
May 18th, 2010
11:47 am
IN case you missed ANY of the rushing yards (329) UGA piled up against Tech on Nov, 28, 2009…. PLEASE remind yourself….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-zZ_qIJ3aQ
we RUN this state
kgator79
May 18th, 2010
11:47 am
Thirty Points….Im sorry, I could have swore this article was about Georgia Tech and joining the SEC, not about Georgia to make this a GT/UGA blog. So maybe you should take your own advice when clearly you whole point of coming on here was to bash GT fan. If your going to dish it out to another, learn to take it like a man when it comes back at you.
Otto
May 18th, 2010
11:50 am
GT Alum, Could GT/UGA get dropped after an expansion to 16 teams? Yes without a doubt it could happen.
Would fans of both school regret it? I think it would be like Pitt/Penn St. Pitt (GT) loves to hate Penn St. Penn St. (UGA) has moved on with it and does not miss the game all that much.
Are UGA fans scared of GT joining the SEC bolstering Tech’s credibility and clout with regard to football. A few maybe, certainly many UGA fans like kicking GT when they’re down. It may make the game and recruiting harder but I do not fear it. I see it as an advantage, UGA does not get to claim GT gets an easy schedule, UGA gets GT after a full SEC schedule (GT/UGA belongs in Nov. w/ other in state matchups) and UGA frees up an open OOC game.
However, I do not see the revenue argument adding up for invites to GT or Clemson from the SEC. FSU and Miami would gain national TV ratings and run the ACC out of Florida even if the SEC foot print does not change.
I do see some Irony in that many GT fans claim that GT can play in the SEC after wins over Vandy and Miss St., who have not had a winning record in the SEC but then turn their nose at an invite to the SEC.