If the SEC asked, would/should Georgia Tech say yes?
Not long after the conference expansion issue really started to heat up, I found myself in a charity golf foursome with a couple of Georgia Tech guys. We were waiting to hit, so I just asked them point blank:
“If Georgia Tech got an invitation to leave the ACC and join the SEC, would you vote to go?”
Response No. 1: “In a New York minute.”
Response No. 2: “Can we go today?”
Now look, Georgia Tech has had a very good football home in the ACC since 1983. It is the defending ACC champions. And the situation got a lot better on Monday when the ACC landed a very good television deal with ABC/ESPN that will pay the league $155 million per year. In this economy, the ACC essentially doubled their money from the previous contract and that is quite an accomplishment. A number of people (this writer included) thought that the numbers might be lower so give the ACC kudos for getting that deal done.
Having said all that, there are two questions we will ponder today:
How/Why does Georgia Tech get on the SEC’s radar?
Why would/should Georgia Tech even consider leaving the ACC?
First, some history: Georgia Tech was a charter member of the Southeastern Conference in 1933 and remained in the league through the 1963 season, when the school withdrew and became a Southern Independent. We won’t debate the reasons why or the wisdom of Georgia Tech’s move. The fact is that Tech was a member of the SEC for 31 years.
People of a certain age will remember going to Grant Field and watching Georgia Tech, as a member of the SEC, play in some of the best rivalries in all of college football. The Georgia rivalry you know about, but did you know:
That Georgia Tech and Auburn have played 92 times? Tech first played Auburn in 1892 and from 1904 to 1987 the schools met every year but two (1905, 1943).
That even after it left the SEC, Georgia Tech also kept playing Tennessee? Between 1964 and 1987 Georgia Tech and Tennessee met every year but three (1974, 1975, 1978).
That there was no fiercer rivalry in the 1960s than the one between Alabama and Georgia Tech? Bear Bryant and Bobby Dodd were friends until the 1961 game, when Tech’s Chick Graning received a blow to the head from Alabama’s Darwin Holt. It broke Graning’s jaw and nose and put him in the hospital. The episode touched off a war of words between newspapers in the two states and drove a wedge between Bryant and Dodd. A year later Alabama came to Grant Field with an 8-0 record and ranked No. 1. Georgia Tech handed Alabama its only loss that season, 7-6. After the 1964 game the two teams did not play again until 1979. They played six straight years until 1984 and have not played since. They were scheduled for a two-game series in 2013 and 2014 but those games have now been postponed.
The point is that Georgia Tech has a lot of history with the current members of the SEC.
Here is how Georgia Tech could get an invitation from the SEC: If the Big Ten expands to 16 teams and exponentially increases its revenue (now at about $22 million per team), the SEC, which pays about $17 million per team, will have a decision to make. If the SEC decides that it must expand as well, some teams from the ACC could come into play if the SEC wants to strengthen its Southeastern footprint.
Whether or not the SEC would extend an invitation to Georgia Tech is a matter of some debate. The argument could be made that with the University of Georgia, the SEC already controls the state’s market place. But the same argument could be made about Clemson (because of South Carolina) and Florida State (because of Florida).
Why Georgia Tech would say yes:
1) More money. Georgia Tech needs it. Even with the ACC’s new contract, there will be about a $4 million gap in shared revenue per team. If the SEC expands, that gap could grow.
2) Easier scheduling. If Georgia becomes a conference game, then Tech has another non-conference game to play with. That would guarantee at least seven home games a season. That is also more money.
3) Better attendance: Bobby Dodd Stadium holds 55,000. With Paul Johnson in place, attendance is picking up as over 50,000 turned out for five of six games last season. The year before (2008) only one game drew over 50,000 (Florida State). But what if Georgia Tech were placed in an SEC division that included Clemson, Georgia, Florida, Florida State, Miami, South Carolina and Tennessee? How great would the demand for tickets be? How much more would people pay just for the right to buy them? More money.
Why Georgia Tech would say no:
1) The school has 27 years invested in the ACC. It has become a good fit for the Institute, both philosophically and academically.
2) Winning the ACC football championship is hard. Winning the SEC is harder. That’s just a fact. Writer Rick Bragg once said that every SEC game “is like a knife fight in a ditch.”
3) You can’t go back. As much as the old guard romanticizes about good old days the fact remains that it’s been 47 years since Tech left the SEC and the world has really changed.
So if you’re a Georgia Tech fan and you got a vote, would you vote to go back to the SEC if the invitation came? Or do you think the ACC is still the best place for the Yellow Jackets?
If you’re an SEC fan, would you like to see Georgia Tech come back?
The floor is yours.
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661 comments Add your comment
KW
May 18th, 2010
10:13 am
You only go if the ACC is going to be poached anyway. The ACC works the way it is (especially with this new TV deal). But an ACC minus FSU/Clemson/Miami or some combination of those would be severely diluted. My ideal scenario is for the ACC to expand to 16 teams and fix these stupid divisions. Add UConn, Syracuse, Pitt, and WVU. Pitt and WVU strengthen both the basketball and football product, and UConn and Syracuse would be HUGE additions to ACC bball.
NORTH
BC
UConn
Syracuse
Pitt
VT
West Virginia
UVA
Maryland
SOUTH
GT
Clemson
FSU
UNC
Miami
NC State
Duke
Wake
That’s an incredibly strong conference. GT gets FSU back on the schedule every year, and everyone is playing games against teams that make more sense from a geographical perspective. It really increases the number of marquee games as well. In the South Division, all the matchups including those first 5 teams are compelling. In the North, its probably a 4 team race every year between VT, Pitt, WVU, and BC. Matchups like VT-Pitt, VT-WVU, and Pitt-WVU.
Basketball season would be incredible.
Ramblin Wrecker
May 18th, 2010
10:15 am
I’m not sure if GT gets an invite from the SEC should they expand. But I think the fact that SEC teams like Alabama, LSU and Tennessee jumped at the chance to play games in Atlanta (Chik-fil-a kickoff game) tells me that adding GT to the SEC is not some redundancy because of UGA somehow “controlling” the state of GA. Atlanta is a rich recruiting soil that is NOT a done deal for UGA to pick what they want. So from individual teams’ perspective I think the opportunity to play in Atlanta every other year or every few years without having to be invited to play by the Atlanta Sports Council would be enticing.
Plus, regardless of all the puppy propaganda that shows up on this site, GT is a well respected and historic football program that can match resumes with any current SEC members or any perspective SEC members that are being bandied about. Afterall, I don’t think it was an accident that GT hired an athletic director with SEC chops to make GT function more like an SEC athletic program. They would be a good choice and would accept if offered.
Anonymous
May 18th, 2010
10:18 am
An excerpt from an HBO interview with Lane & Layla Kiffen: “In the segment, Kiffin’s wife, Layla, recalls their “scary” departure, which included people shining lights inside their home and mattresses being burned. She says the couple got threatening phone and text messages from UT fans. One said, “We want to eat your first-born child.” Another said, “hope you die on the plane to California.”
Stay classy Vols!
GTPhenom
May 18th, 2010
10:19 am
KW’s plan is my ideal situation as well. Everyone stays put and the ACC expands to its own Super Conference. However, that is no where near what will probably end up happening unfortunately.
Bulldog59
May 18th, 2010
10:20 am
Dan, good point. I have not looked at any of those matchups.
Otto
May 18th, 2010
10:20 am
Why would VT be a good fit? If they are then Miami would be even better. I would wager VT has had more arrests than Miami over the past 5 years.
Sugar Hill Dawg
May 18th, 2010
10:21 am
I’ll admit I’m one of the “They left – to hell with ‘em” types. That being said, Tech coming back to where they’ve always belonged would only benefit Tech. The SEC (football – most other varsity sports Tech fields teams in would be very competitive) would gain nothing. I believe the talent gap between the SEC and the SEC isn’t as wide as most believe, but most SEC teams have enough two/three deep at every position to wear down the ACC teams. Earle season games would be barn burners, but imagine Tech arriving at the UGA game after a season of Florida, Tennessee (Dooley will restore the Vols), South Carolina, Kentucky, Vandy, and a crossover with the other new team added to the western division every year (a Texas or Oklahoma school, perhaps?), as well as two rotating games with the other western teams? Suddenly, the ACC would look might good to the Jackets and their fans. I’m not saying the ACC lacks legit programs (FSU, Clemson, Miami, and VA Tech come to mind), but that gauntlet sure looks less than imposing to me. I know the Techsters probably have no familiarity with John Milton’s Paradise Lost, but “better to reign in hell than serve in heaven” should be their mantra.
GTPhenom
May 18th, 2010
10:24 am
Sugar Hill Dawg, I disagree. Your telling me those middle tier SEc programs are that much better than GT? Sorry, I have trouble believing that. The SEC is top heavy, and that is simple fact. And, as others have pointed out, the gap between conferences is closing, as indicated by the records against one another.
Wilbur
May 18th, 2010
10:24 am
Hell No….fifty years ago Dodd and the AJC blasted Bama & Bear….they left ’cause Dodd was mad at Bryant for bending the NCAA recruiting rules and a questionable hit. AJC & Tech thought they were superior…well piss on the superior attitude and no way Tech gets back in the SEC!!!!!!!!!!!
GTPhenom
May 18th, 2010
10:26 am
Wilbur, I don’t know where you get “questionable” for either of the things GT left for, but the fact is that the hit was a dirty blow, shattered the kids face, and required reconstructive surgery to fix. Teh recruiting violations were beyond evident at the time. Superior attitude, that is BS, it is called a little sportsmanship. Those also aren’t the only reasons GT left the SEC
we own you
May 18th, 2010
10:26 am
30-24
don’t forget. we own you
GeneralNeyland96
May 18th, 2010
10:27 am
Here’s an interesting slant to the situation….will Paul Johnson’s style of play dictate whether GT get’s an SEC invitation? The 3op style can be a pill to defend and there are a lot of coaches in the SEC who’d rather not have to teach their D’s how to play a 3rd (after pro style and spread op) style of offense.
Thoughts??
UGA1997
May 18th, 2010
10:27 am
The big boys in the SEC need another Vandy or Miss St. to feast on. I say bring back the gay engineers!
Dan
May 18th, 2010
10:27 am
For the folks who seem to want VT, you can’t get them without UVA. The ACC didn’t even want VT when it decided to expand but was forced to invite them to get UVA to sign off on it.
No issue, Bulldawg59. I think most Tech fans are intrigued at the possibility of playing the schools in the SEC but are just fine with the ACC. The issue is self preservation. If the SEC comes in and asks four schools to join, Tech needs to be sure they are one of them.
juvenal
May 18th, 2010
10:27 am
again, AD’s barely listen to school presidents…
athdog
May 18th, 2010
10:27 am
From a Carolina school standpoint, Clemson has always seemed, to me, to be a better SEC fit than South Carolina. I can’t put a finger on it, it’s just me.
Tech? Bring ‘em on. I like the thought of Tech being a conference game (30-24), which would free up another non-conference game for each of us. (8 of 9). Ideally, Tech, FSU and Clemson would all join. Realignment will be tough. So, the real question is this: Does the blue turf bowl in Boise become an SEC affiliate? Otherwise, where would an SEC Tech go? Thanks, I’ll be here all week, tip your waitresses
GTPhenom
May 18th, 2010
10:28 am
Oh, and if this is your opinion of “bending” NCAA rules: “Hey, let’s go out and recruit and invite 200 players to our school, and then not cut them until no one else can get them.” Right, bending . . .
Dan
May 18th, 2010
10:28 am
So you’re saying you like to take it from dudes, UGA1997?
RxDawg
May 18th, 2010
10:30 am
I’d like to see Tech back in the SEC. They were an original member. But really my reasons are pretty much selfish. I think that the Tech rivalry has become somewhat less important, epecially for a supposed top rival. The game flat out just doesn’t mean that much in the grand scheme of things. If it was an SEC game the tension and big time game atmosphere would increase dramaticly. I would like to see more importance brought with the annual Tech game. As it is now, it might effect the bowl choice and shut some bloggers up for a bit. It could and should mean much more.
Also to consider, if all this silly expansion talk becomes true there is a chance that non conference opponents could get rubbed out of the schedule. There is a change UGA could finally just say there just isn’t enough room to put Tech in.
GTPhenom
May 18th, 2010
10:30 am
I like your train of thought GeneralNeyland. That could obviously influence the decisions made. Dan, thanks for highlighting that point very clearly about VT, and UGA97/we own you, grow up and get a life. It gets old.
Hey Dogtards
May 18th, 2010
10:31 am
lol @ uga is the ACC champions. Just cause y’all got lucky in order to avoid a 6-6 regular season doesn’t mean you are anything decent.
You guys lost to Kentucky, who lost to Clemson in their bowl game. Clemson lost to GT twice.
You guys got smoked by UT, who got smoked by VT in their bowl game. VT got beaten soundly by GT.
You also lost to LSU, who lost to Ole Miss, who lost to MSU, who GT beat soundly.
Uga would have finished 5th in GTs division last year with losses to UNC, Miami, and VT.
Mark Richt
May 18th, 2010
10:31 am
UGA1997,
How does this help us? You referred to the “big boys” of the SEC. So, again, I ask, how does this help us?
UGA1997
May 18th, 2010
10:32 am
This is not a dating site Dan, and I am not available-sorry.
HugoStiglitz
May 18th, 2010
10:32 am
As a GT fan and alumni I would hope that GT would not consider joining the SEC if asked. The world has changed since we were an SEC school and we are in a much better place now then we were then. There are many reasons to stay in the ACC. There are only two reasons to join the SEC (football, and 4 million). It really wouldnt be worth it just to appease the football fans.
GTPhenom
May 18th, 2010
10:32 am
RxDawg, i am in total agreement with you there. The rivalry lost some of its luster, and I’m not here to say that that isn’t partially because GT didn’t compete for a nice string of years. But now that the rivalry seems to be back to a competitive nature, I love the idea of putting more emphasis on the game.
AlabamaRamblinwreck
May 18th, 2010
10:33 am
I vote “yes”. The positives definitely outweigh the negatives. Although, the football schedule will be difficult, I think ultimately it helps us with recruiting, and if we can keep Coach Johnson, we will stay competitive. The problem with this whole pretend scenario is that UGAG does not want us in the SEC and if they can do anything to stop it, they will.
GT IN THE BLUE TURF BOWL......AGAIN
May 18th, 2010
10:33 am
BLUE TURF BOWL
1-8 AGAINST YOUR IN-STATE RIVAL
1 BCS BOWL……EVER
GOT ANNIHILATED BY IOWA IN THEIR ONLY MEANINGFUL BOWL
JARRARD TARRANT RAPE
RAMPANT DRUG USE BY SPORTS TEAMS
BUSTED FOR PLAYING ACADEMICALLY INELIGIBLE PLAYERS
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
GTard FANS ARES A JOKE!
GTPhenom
May 18th, 2010
10:34 am
Lol, Hey Dogtards, it is pointless trying to tell that to the specific ignorant dawg fans on here. They have their opinions, and that will not change. They like to only point out stats that benefit their cause.
RAMBLE ON!!!
May 18th, 2010
10:35 am
I hate my mother. She just told me I had to go out and make a friend before I can get back on the internet.
Now that the Gator has dumped the 2cnd team
May 18th, 2010
10:35 am
The Gator excercised their contractual rights with the ACC last bowl season by dumping Clemson for FSU, in order to pay a final homage to Bowdon. Clemson ended up in the Music City.
If Tech does not even end up second in their little boy pee wee league, then where would a 7-5 or 8-4 tech team be? In other words, with a second place ACC team, they might??? get the Gator or the Independence Bowl but where would a team like Tech end up with no national name recognition or fans that do not ravel be?? Hmmmmm?
Food for thought. The Independence Bowl is by contract the venue now for ACC’s
# 2 ………correct? If I am wrong then I am wrong but did I not read this factoid somewhere recently?
I guess Tech had better run the table so they can get an invite somewhere or else it could be rough come bowl season. NC, VaTech, FSU and Miami will all get only mid level bowl invitations this year but one will see the Urgange Bowl. tech? NOT
UGA1997
May 18th, 2010
10:36 am
Mark,
With the brutal schedule of most SEC teams, it should be an easy win for most teams. But I guess that’s what most OC games are for.
SEC FANSTER
May 18th, 2010
10:36 am
Travel wise, it easier to get to GA Tech from Knoxville, Tuscaloosa, Auburn, Gainesville, etc. than to Athens… (Now that is a heck-of-a-reason) I say “LET TECH IN, LET TECH IN, LET TECH IN”…
GTPhenom
May 18th, 2010
10:36 am
GT in the Blue turf, you know, your supposed to take the caps lock off when you are typing. And do I even need to disprove your whole “1 BCS Bowl ever” statement. See, this is one of those UGA fans who points out only specific details. what about the times GT went 8-0 straight against UGA?
Mark Richt
May 18th, 2010
10:36 am
GT IN THE BLUE TURF BOWL:
3-17 against Florida
1 national title… ever.
zach mettenberger sexual battery (convicted)
rampant arresting of sports teams (further extended to student body)
BUSTED FOR ACADEMICALLY INELIGIBLE PLAYERS, actually no, they were too dumb to make it into UGA so they went to Hargrave for a couple of years.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
maybe the jokes on us.
Reggie Ball
May 18th, 2010
10:37 am
I wish this would’ve happened about 10 years ago. I always wanted to play for an SEC school. Look at what I did in my games vs. Georgia.
Tech
May 18th, 2010
10:37 am
You people keep mentioning FSU, Clemson, and Miami as “solid”, but the truth is Tech has won more more games than any of those teams the last 3 years. Heck, go back 5 or 6 years and we’ve still won more. VT is the only team with a better record and we’re not far behind. Clemson…they have a big stadium and that’s about it. Miami has worse attendance than GT.
Dan
May 18th, 2010
10:38 am
The Gator no longer has a bowl tie-in with the ACC/Big 12/Big East/Notre Dame. It got really creative and now has a Big 10/SEC matchup. I’m sure it’ll be appointment television.
GT calss of 2013
May 18th, 2010
10:39 am
I would love to go back to the SEC only because of the level of competition and the national prominence. It would be a great opportunity to contend for a nation title. If we’re offered it would be the dumbest thing ever to say no and who ever says no should lose their job.
Furman Bisher Fan
May 18th, 2010
10:39 am
Bobby Dodd made a huge mistake leaving the SEC.
Over-reaction is an understatement.
Anyway, Georgia Tech should re-join the SEC and send South Carolina back to the ACC.
Will
May 18th, 2010
10:40 am
Stinger, you better stop making those kind of crazy comments or the GBI is going to come arrest you for smoking something in your mom’s basement again.
Paul Johnson
May 18th, 2010
10:41 am
We have no desire to play in the SEC as we would have absolutely no chance of ever winning a conference title again. After going nearly 20 years without a conference title or meaningful bowl game, we have no desire to amp up the competition level as we may never have an outright national title again. Hell, it’s been over 50 years since we won a legit national title.
Otto
May 18th, 2010
10:42 am
RxDawg, Some UGA blogs have questioned playing GT as it is. Over the past 20 years, I would not put GT in UGA’s top 3 want to win list. CPJ is bringing GT back to an ACC conf. contender and as such making the game more important. Nobody knows how long or where CPJ can take GT.
Delbert D.
May 18th, 2010
10:43 am
Vandy and Kentucky are booted out, replaced by Clemson, FSU and Miami on Georgia’s annual schedule? Uhhhh..no.
Paul Johnson
May 18th, 2010
10:44 am
We also don’t want to be in the SEC where we’d get crushed by legit speed. We can rack up on the HS level teams of the ACC. Hell, I could even make Reggie Ball look great in the ACC…
Hey, Reggie, great to see you on the board this morning. How bout them…oh sorry.
Sugar Hill Dawg
May 18th, 2010
10:44 am
KW – even I would pay attention to a “Super ACC” you describe. One of the problems I have with the ACC as it is currently constituted – what teams are in the Coastal? Which teams are in the Atlantic? I think the original motivation (balance out the divisions rather than a N/S alignment) made sense at the time, but the failure of Miami and FSU to maintain their programs (Maybe coming into the ACC from the Big Least exposed Miami – who knows?) really put the ACC into a bind. Go N/S whether the expansion occurs or not. GT Phenom – my point speaks to the relative paucity of talent at many ACC schools. Tech’s mini – o and d lines getting an SEC pounding every week would take a toll on them. I suppose CPJ (fantastic choice after the Gaily fiasco) could recruit bigger guys, but then the precision necessary to operate that offense could suffer a catastrophic failure. As an ATL guy, I like seeing UNC, BC, VA Tech, Miami, etc. hitting town on a regular basis. Tech needs to stay where they are. They have a much better chance at a BCS bowl (then, the inevitable pounding they so richly deserve) bid.
T3
May 18th, 2010
10:45 am
General Neyland:
Good point. SEC’s coaches might consider that a trade-off
if they get to play at least one game in Atlanta every other year.
It would essentially look like a “recruiting show”
for teams playing at GT.
Paul Johnson
May 18th, 2010
10:46 am
I’m glad that the ACC signed a deal with ESPN so now the southeast can watch my smoke-and-mirrors football.
Mark Richt
May 18th, 2010
10:46 am
It’s OKAY Paul Johnson!!!
At least you guys HAVE legit national titleS! we only got this here dadgum one from 30 years ago!!! Don’t be ashamed Paul, ya’ll’s guys gots four of em!!!
Hey Dogtards
May 18th, 2010
10:47 am
@ Now that the Gator has dumped the 2cnd team
Yeah you need to read better. Independence bowl at #2? Are you stupid or do you just not follow college FB?
#1 Team – Orange Bowl (duh)
#2 Team – Chik/Peach (duh)
#3 Team – Champs Sports Bowl (second highest ESPN TV rating for a bowl game ever last year, also second highest rated non-BCS game last year, behind only Capital One bowl)
#4 Team – Sun Bowl
#5 Team – Meineke Bowl
#6 Team – Music City Bowl
#7 Team – Independence Bowl
Only a mutt could confuse the number 2 with the number 7.
UGA1997
May 18th, 2010
10:47 am
Mark: We’ve been down of late, but UGA is still a top level program.
Dan: Again, no thank you, I’ll pass. You are making me a bit uncomfortable with your blatant advances. Their are other blogs for that!