Why Arkansas will not leave the SEC

 Looks like it is going to be a long, hot summer on the expansion front with reporters chasing ghosts and rumors of ghosts.

A radio station in Kansas City got everybody hot and bothered yesterday when it reported that the Big Ten had already extended offers to four schools: Missouri, Notre Dame, Nebraska, and Rutgers. For the rest of the day there was one report after another from those respective campuses saying: “That’s news to us.”

Understand that a story like this is not true right up until the minute that it is. In other words, the invitations won’t be (officially) extended by the Big Ten until that league already knows they will be accepted.

The Big Ten is not going to extend and invitation to a school and say “No hurry, guys. Just do your homework and get back to us when you can.”

Nobody will get a chance to say “No” publicly to the Big Ten.

So let’s talk about something we do know when it comes to expansion and it is this: There has been speculation that if Missouri and/or Nebraska leave the Big 12 that SEC member Arkansas would be tempted to go back to its Southwest Conference roots. South Carolina’s Steve Spurrier speculated as much on a recent conference call of SEC coaches.

Let me tell you in no uncertain terms why that won’t happen. Back in 1991 Arkansas left the Southwest Conference for the SEC because athletics director Frank Broyles, one of the shrewdest administrators to ever walk on a college campus, could look down the road and see that he’d make more money—a lot more money—in the SEC. Commissioner Roy Kramer had a plan that entailed a 12-team conference with a championship game.

You’d have to say that Frank Broyles was right. In 1990 the 10 SEC schools shared $16.4 million, about $1.6 million per school.  Today, the SEC now has a $3 billion TV contract with CBS and ESPN. This season each SEC school will receive about $17 million in shared revenue during the spring meetings in Destin.

When you are trying to guess what school will land where if there is expansion upheaval, remember that these decisions made on the basis of money. Also remember that the SEC and the Big Ten are the big financial dogs in this game. Arkansas is not going to jump off the SEC train for less money in the Big 12. And they would get less money.

Berry Trammel, the fine reporter with the Daily Oklahoman, pointed out earlier this year that while the Big Ten and the SEC share their revenue equally, the Big 12 does not. The Big 12 puts half of its revenue in a common pool which is shared equally. The other half goes into an “appearance” pool and is passed out based on the number of times a team is on TV. Obviously a system like that accrues greater benefits to Texas, Oklahoma, and Nebraska. The gap between Texas, which will earn about $12 million this season, and the bottom team in the league is several million dollars.

 Obviously, the other members of the Big 12 don’t particularly like this arrangement but those three schools, especially Texas, make up the engine that drives the financial train. You want Texas to leave? Try changing that formula.

Missouri will go to the Big Ten if offered for that very reason. Do you think Arkansas wants to jump into that environment? No chance.

 

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262 comments Add your comment

14TH--ON THE WAY

May 11th, 2010
9:05 am

If the big XII does get eviscerated by the other conferences, I wonder which way Texas will jump? They are the 800 pound gorilla in this scenario

P.T.

May 11th, 2010
9:05 am

Tony,

Does the SEC’s TV contracts with CBS/ESPN address expansion should that occur? Will the SEC and networks renegotiate the deal or will the current institutions receive less per annum as a result of additional teams?

Is there more TV money for the SEC through expansion? Right now, I’m thinking the Big 10 got it right with creating their own network.

Ron Mexico

May 11th, 2010
9:05 am

Good in theory… however… should the Big 10 go to 14 or 16 teams (with revenue buoyed by additional households and the Big 10 Network), the SEC will likely pick up 2-4 additional teams. But the SEC’s contract (at the moment) is fixed, that $17 million per school will go down if more schools are added as there is limited additional income (figure an additional mid-tier bowl, and possibly a change to the rule allowing a 3rd BCS participant). In that case, if the Big 12ish comes up with plan involving the Pac 10 and a new TV network (similar to the Big 10 Network), there may be enough cash to make pig suey jump.

freehawk

May 11th, 2010
9:06 am

Thanks for the interesting figures, and for being a voice of reason in this. Fun discussion, especially as the summer gets going, but folks are getting a little overheated already.

#2 BAMA FAN

May 11th, 2010
9:06 am

What has Arkansas done for the SEC? 1 NC in baketball and a lot of track titles and that is about all!!
Bring in FSU and Miami and the SEC East would be very interesting!! Texas will never join the SEC
or Oklahoma because they are the only major football powers in the Big 12. RTR

DawginLex

May 11th, 2010
9:06 am

clemson and GT need to join the SEC.

Enough said.

The rivalries with UGA alone would be amazing.

Peadawg

May 11th, 2010
9:12 am

I wouldn’t mind seeing the SEC add maybe Texas, Texas A&M(west), FSU, Clemson(east). That’d be pretty cool.

Stuart

May 11th, 2010
9:18 am

Good article Tony, the only mistake, I think, is that the commissioner who worked out the deal for the SEC was Harvey Schiller, not Roy Kramer. Kramer was too busy running interference for Tennessee.

ga gator

May 11th, 2010
9:21 am

Another point missed Tony; If there is going to be expansion and I agree that there will be. It will have an even number of teams. The KC radio station obviously speculated but without the knowledge the Big Ten already has 11 teams so any expansion would either be 1,3 or 5 teams in order to have 2 even divisions for their playoff.

Mybe So

May 11th, 2010
9:22 am

It’s all about money vs. success. Anyone who tells you the Big 12 is not as big a gold mine as the SEC is an idiot. Arkansas would have a chance to win the North EVERY year, which will gain the $$ and recruits. That being said, do I think it will happen?? NOPE, I agree with Tony on this one.

jdawg

May 11th, 2010
9:22 am

i would rather sec add Tex, Tex A&M, and Va Tech … bringing in the big TX tv markets and the Wash DC tv markets… then look at Clemson, FSU or Okla as the final participant… if is is Clemson or FSU then new alignments would be easy to add…. but if it is Okla, then switch Auburn to east..

RamblinRed

May 11th, 2010
9:25 am

TX will not join the SEC. They have to be the top dog in charge of decision making and they wouldn’t be in the SEC.
Given that the Pac-10 and Big-12 are openly discussing an alliance right now that would include a TV network it appears that they are already planning for what they see as a likely restructuring.

The biggest issue the SEC has to deal with is that the Big 10 is looking to further expand its revenue generation by adding the right schools that bring large fanbases and new cable networks so their money pot for each school stays the same or increases. Meanwhile the SEC is locked into a long-term TV contract with a fixed revenue stram – meaning the avg payout if the SEC goes from 12 to 16 teams drops from $17MM per school to $12.75MM per school. SEC will have to start looking at other ways to create more revenue.

Miles

May 11th, 2010
9:29 am

Follow the money trail…simple…

JB

May 11th, 2010
9:32 am

Oduma looks at all this revenue for pleasure on weekends and see’s one thing. A tax. Yes, why should all this pleasure go for free. I’m thinking $5.00 for every ticket and let’s say 2.00 for watching on the tube. big big money………….Works for booze and smokes……Can college football be far behind ?
All kidding aside……can November 2nd get here soon enough ?

Da truth

May 11th, 2010
9:32 am

Besides the potential for more money, someone please explain to me why 14 or 16 is better than 12. These Presidents/Boards are such hypocrits.

Otto

May 11th, 2010
9:33 am

RamblinRed, If that money train in the Big12 comes to a stop they may join. The 3 strongest football programs in the Big XII North are open to talking to other conferences, including Nebraska whose Tom Osborne has been reported as never being in favor of the contract with the Big XII.

Tony did not mention Colorado being open to leaving the Big XII. If Texas is not careful they could be the only one generating money in a 2nd tier conference.

Red Clay Hound

May 11th, 2010
9:36 am

The NCAA needs to tell Notre Dame they have to join a conference or they can’t play for the national championship. This forces them to join the Big 10. Case solved, expansion completed, now we can move on.

Otto

May 11th, 2010
9:36 am

RamblinRed, Further most talk has said that contracts are open to renegotiation if there is a major change such as conf. expansion. Slive will have a way to make more money if the SEC expands.

learn something everyday

May 11th, 2010
9:37 am

peadawg : I agree with you 90%. Except for FSU, would love to see them in SEC just don’t see it happening, so toss that out and add Oklahoma and you have a far better chance of getting Tex and A & M. Toss Auburn into the East with Clem, the rest goto the west.

4 non-conf games a year no more, drop to 2. This way the SEC can maintain 1 permanent inter-divisional rival and still play 2 inter-divisional games a year. Leave space for 1 good out of conf (i.e. UGA vs Tech, UF vs FSU/MIA, etc…) and 1 cupcake. No more 2-4 cupcakes a year, save that space for vandy and miss st.

WEST:
LSU
Ole Miss
Ark
Miss St.
Tex
Tex A&M
Okla
Alabam

EAST:
Tenn
Clemson
Auburn
Florida
So Car
UGA
Vandy
Kentucky

Yeah the West would be loaded at first but that would ebb + flow over time.

Would be the best conference in all of football. No need to kill the ACC. If Colorado does bolt for Pac-10 it could be in realm of possibility, other wise, Big 12 picks up TCU and either Utah/BYU/Air Force and calls it a day.

kaput

May 11th, 2010
9:39 am

You’re paying less in taxes now, JB. But let’s not let facts ruin your pity party.

Will

May 11th, 2010
9:41 am

Very simple, if Arkansas moves out of the SEC, they could work a deal like Texas has where they get shares based on tv appearances, which means they could actually make MORE money that way with a better deal. And have less competition. Smart move for Arkansas and they’re outta here, Ark has said nothing for months to stop the rumors, and the rumors are heavy.

Kiffinisatosser

May 11th, 2010
9:43 am

Tony is partly right. One of the things hat must be percolating insie the Big 12 is a realization that their approach to revenue sharing is a source of weakness. My guess is that a reconstituted Big 12 would not have this feature and may well have an SEC type TV contract to boot. When that happens, look for Arkie to go home.

stubby

May 11th, 2010
9:43 am

Texas makes less now in television revenues than does Arkansas.

Arkansas would be crazy to jump, they’ll make much less in the Big 12 . . .

learn something everyday

May 11th, 2010
9:43 am

oh and eliminate the home + home for the inter-div rotation and you play everyone in other division every 4 years.

Kiffinisatosser

May 11th, 2010
9:44 am

or what Will said :-)

HogFan

May 11th, 2010
9:47 am

#2 BamaFan What are you talking about, the Hogs are a respectable team that has made the SEC championship 4 times. Why don’t you go pick on Ole Miss or Miss St. or South Carolina. We went to the final four in College baseball just last year and as you mentioned a lot (like 35) track titles. FSU and Miami? How will that help the SEC West? Oh yeah we are gonna kick your Bama this year.

SimpleDawg

May 11th, 2010
9:59 am

TB,

I can see Missouri and Rutgers joining the Rust Belt Athletic Conference, but Nebraska and Notre Dame will say no. The RuBAC will then need to approach another school…maybe Syracuse.

The Big 12 will then add TCU and maybe a couple more…..possibly La. Tech, Memphis, UTEP, or Tulsa….just to get to a workable even number.

If the SEC were to expand, FSU, USF, or UCF are possible invitees…..stadium size would be a major consideration, and all 3 play in big stadiums.

The ACC would look at ECU, and whichever schools in Florida are left.

The best case scenario would be for the Goldie Domers to join the RuBAC and for everyone else to remain as is. The RuBAC schools would realize their dream of bedding ND, and no others would have to sell their souls.

reality

May 11th, 2010
10:01 am

The economic downturn may force the hand when it comes to realignment…and also force the hand of the conferences to start adopting a playoff system.

The reality is that right now, with tax revenue down, football is actually helping support the rest of the university.

Entertainment is a pretty defensable business to be in…and the academics can secure their revenue streams so they and theirs can protect their seats at the lunch counter…one hand is open to recieve “donations” from the athletic department…the other is a closed fist to rant against the evils of big time collegiate athletics.

It’s a pretty funny thing to watch….almost as entertaining as watching republicans and democrats argue about who is right.

Kiffinisatosser

May 11th, 2010
10:02 am

Hey HogFan…question. Do you guys miss playing the Texas teams? Setting money aside, are you and most other fans happy to be in the SEC? I must confess that I want Arkie to leave the SEC not because I don’t like it…it just seems to be culturally and historically more oriented to the west than the east.

5IML

May 11th, 2010
10:03 am

Hogfan,

You made some valid points but lost all credibility with the last sentence. BAMA will smack you around like we always do. Don’t believe what you’re reading about the Hogs competing for the SECW this year. It’s kinda like last year’s Ole Miss hype.

Dawg 17/20

May 11th, 2010
10:05 am

They will stay and if they can get their D under control they will have a good 2010 season……including beating the UGA Bulldawgs.

Mark "Crimson Crier" Ingram

May 11th, 2010
10:06 am

So will the Big 10 become the Big 14 or 16 or will have the continual identity disorder that Auburn has, where they don’t know whether they’re Tigers or War Eagles?

Reptiles Rule

May 11th, 2010
10:07 am

They’re gonna keep messing around until they screw up college football like they have done to all the pro sports……

Kiffinisatosser

May 11th, 2010
10:08 am

Dear Bama delusionists…you lost 9 starters on your defense. Yes, the talent is good, but no experience = getting sliced and diced by a team like Arkansas…or …gulp…Auburn. Or heaven forfend…both plus Florida.

Kiffinisatosser

May 11th, 2010
10:10 am

Damn straight Reptiles Rule…all of this is crap is starting to make me sick. 99% blame is with moronic Notre Dame. They are going to bring the whole edifice crashing down in order to preserve their independence.

collegeballfan

May 11th, 2010
10:12 am

OK, you convinced me. Arkansas will stay in the SEC.

HogFan

May 11th, 2010
10:12 am

I am mixed on all of that I grew up in the 90’s so I’m not big on the old SWC tradition. We are playing A&M for the next ten years in Jerry Land and since I live in Houston now it will be fun talking a lot of smack. I know for sure that the older generation loves to hate Texas and a lot of that has rubbed off on me. I think we are in a win win situation right now. As for 5IML that was Nutt’s way when his teams aren’t suppose to do anything they do well when there is hype they don’t. Let’s see how Petrino handles it. I love the SEC bc it is the best conference and I like playing the best teams even if we are only successful every four years.

T3

May 11th, 2010
10:13 am

Boy, this was a REALLY “busch-leaue” article by TB.

Much has been overlooked.

First, Arkansas still has very long & deep ties to teams like Texas, Houston, OK, etc. from the old Southwest Conference (SWC).

Second, what TB “conveniently” failed to say was that Arkansas didnt just wake up one morning and say “Hey lets dump the SWC and go join the SEC. It might be fun over there.”

The TRUTH…was that the SWC had been hit by repeated recruiting scandals in 1980s. The ONLY programs not NOT put on probation for recruiting scandals during those times were Arkansas, Rice, and Baylor.

Those scandals resulted from the competely cut-throat environment of the SWC. It all began to really unravel when SWC team member, SMU, got the death penalty in 1987. That marked the beginning of the end for the SWC that precipitated Arkansas looking for a new home.

Broyles didnt choose the SEC because simply it was a BETTER conference than the SWC, or THE BEST of many different conference choices. He chose it because it was THE ONLY CHOICE. Theres a difference between choosing among GOOD OPTIONS, and HAVING to choose THE ONLY option.

Broyles hand was forced by the coming demise of the SWC,
so he really had NO CHOICE but to join the SEC.

At THAT time, there were really no other viable alternatives to the SWC. The former Big8 conference added Tx, TxAM, OK, OKSt to make it the Big12. Just Ask Nebraska AD Tom Osbourne how much he loves having the “texas” people running HIS conference.

Take it to the bank: Nebraska is going to the Big10.

If the Big12 has to replace Nebraska and/or Mizzou, you can also
TAKE IT TO THE BANK: Arkansas will get the VERY FIRST phone call.
Houston will get the second call. BTW, Houston is the third largest university in Texas, behind ONLY U-Texas and TexasA&M.

That was THEN. And now, things are VERY different. Arkansas has a REAL choice now: stay with the SEC, or join up again with their old SWC friends. And, there’s nothing to keep the Big12 from re-negotiating their revenue sharing arrangements with all members.

And, there is simply NO WAY you can count out the possibility that Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones might just want to see HIS alma mater going back towards its old SWC “roots.”

Folks forget: Jones won a National Championship in 1964 at Arkansas.
Jones is a MULI-BILLIONAIRE. If Jones really wants Arkansas to leave the SEC, then Arkansas will leave. Period.

If joins wants Arkansas in the Big12, then he will likely see to it that Big12 revenue-sharing arrangements are changed so that Arkansas doesnt get short shrift. If Arkansas switches, they’ll end up getting AT LEAST the $17 Million they currently get from the SEC. New TV contracts coming for the Big 12, and perhaps a Pac10/Big12 “alliance” will ensure much more money starts flowing into Big 12 teams, which might include Arkansas.

Lastly, while this article was mainly about Arkansas, TB does hold Broyles up for some mild admiration as TB states: “…Frank Broyles, one of the shrewdest administrators to ever walk on a college campus.”

Again, what TB “chose” not to mention was that Broyles was from Decatur,GA. Broyles was also a star QB at GT, and later the GT Off Coord for Bobby Dodd from 1951-1956. Dodd practically BEGGED Broyles to come back to GT to be the AD. Broyles chose to stay with Arkansas, since Broyles acknowledged it was much easier to recruit in a “one-school” state like Arkansas than to have compete for recruits
with GT’s high academic standards.

Amazing how much TB chooses to leave out.

SimpleDawg

May 11th, 2010
10:16 am

Texas, T A & M, and Oklahoma would never join the SEC…..they would consider that tantamount to surrender in the face of a superior force – which they don’t believe is so.

As long as Texas, A & M, Oklahoma, and Nebraska sick together, the Big 12 will continue to be viable as a major football conference……and able to attract whoever they need to remain solvent.

The PAC-10 will expand to 12 teams – it’s inevitable, and there are many options.

ND’s false sense of superiority is the fly in the oinment.

Kiffinisatosser

May 11th, 2010
10:19 am

While we are at it, the SEC championship game ain’t all that. Yes, last year we had the perfect storm, but to be honest, even it devalues the regular season. Re-matches are for pro wrestling…not college football.

So why it has become the be all end all model for conference arrangements is beyond me. The reason the SEC got its TV contract is not because of the championship game. It is because the SEC is so full of obsessive borderline personality fans that there is money to made with anything branded SEC. Hell, if they ran a middle school girls football league in July sponsored by the SEC and wearing school uniforms, the Bammers would probably fill Bryant Denny stadium.

jumbeauxtriger

May 11th, 2010
10:20 am

Arkansas is not leaving the SEC and I like having them in the conference. I think all of their big 3 programs are competetive and they have a strong fan following.

It’s amusing some of the names that are tossed around here that the BCS conferences would take: Tulsa, Memphis, LaTech, UCF, etc. No way any of those schools will go in a big-time conference such as the Big 12, SEC or Big 10.

Geaux Tigers
Go SEC

Navigator

May 11th, 2010
10:20 am

Enough people at Arkansas feel the SEC thinks of them as an adopted child, never one of the family. Frank Broyles, what does he have to do with this now. You’re trying to make your point about money, but the re-addition of Arkansas to replace Missouri would be big. They are on the border of Texas and Oklahoma and the alumni haven’t forgotten those monumental games against Texas. What rival do they have in the SEC???

ga gator

May 11th, 2010
10:23 am

I think it would be quite funny if ND did not join the Big Ten and the Big Ten still expanded to 14 or 16 teams and started the domino’s to fall with other conference realignments and they became the only independent. If they dont improve in a hurry in football NBC might not re up their contract.

HogFan

May 11th, 2010
10:23 am

The SEC championship might as well be called the National Championship. Who ever wins the SEC wins the NC, it’s a pretty simple equation.

Kiffinisatosser

May 11th, 2010
10:24 am

Cut Tony’s article – Paste in its place T3’s post. Tony, the gauntlet has been laid down. How shall you respond?

SimpleDawg

May 11th, 2010
10:25 am

Ooops! I completely forgot about Houston. They would certainly be a great fit if Misouri and/or Nebraska leaves the Big 12.

I still don’t think the Huskers will leave for the RuBAC.

ga gator

May 11th, 2010
10:25 am

Kiffinisatosser, you are wrong about the TV contract. They got it because of the brand of football played in the conference. What conference are you from?

learn something everyday

May 11th, 2010
10:25 am

navigator: LSU, Ole Miss.

HogFan

May 11th, 2010
10:28 am

NAVIGATOR well I don’t like them Tigers much or Bama I consider them a rival, but you’re right is seems forced a little.

learn something everyday

May 11th, 2010
10:29 am

jumbeauxtriger : UCF is about the only real possibility in that list. Your right about the rest. but, think of it over time, yeah they would be bottom of the barrell for a long while, but give them 10 years… bigger stadiums/facilities with revenue sharring and ability to get better recruits with conference cred.

[...] but no offers have been made – KansasCity.com Video Podcast: Big Ten expansion – CBSSports.com Why Arkansas will not leave the SEC | Mr. College Football Big Ten denies report it reached out to 4 schools – Chicago Breaking Sports Steven M. Sipple: We [...]

Kid Ray

May 11th, 2010
10:33 am

Go Rutgers!!!

T3

May 11th, 2010
10:34 am

“Mr. College Football?” What a misnomer.

Kiffinisatosser

May 11th, 2010
10:37 am

Ga gator, I have been closely following SEC football for 40 years. The dirty little secret of the SEC is that very often the zeal of the fans is somehow confused for the football strength of the conference. As it happens, that is now becoming a self-fulfilling prophesy because of the obscene contract with ESPN. But, Ga Gator, you should not get your causes and effects mixed up.

Kiffinisatosser

May 11th, 2010
10:39 am

of all of the unworthy, why has fate shined on Rutgers? They should collecively immediately drop to the ground and praise Jesus.

T3

May 11th, 2010
10:40 am

Folks, TB is really just Mike SLive’s “mouthpiece.”

No real journalistic merit. Just “spin.”

The very fact that TB is EVEN writing an article about Arkansas’s future shod serve as “confirmaton” that Arkansas is ALREADY in “casual & unofficial” discussions with some of thier old SWC/Big12 friends.

5IML

May 11th, 2010
10:42 am

Hogfan,

Speaking strictly for myself, I have enjoyed having Ark in the conference and hope you guys stay. The SEC expanded back when I was at BAMA. I remember Nolan and the 40 minutes of hell and the track championships.

My statement about the Ark hype was centered on your defense. I don’t think there will be enough improvement to make real noise this year.

Dawgboy

May 11th, 2010
10:45 am

No to Klempsin. We don’t need their cheating ways in the SEC. We have come too far to back up with that bunch.

Kiffinisatosser

May 11th, 2010
10:48 am

Another dirty little secret – Klimpsin is actually a significantly better university than UGa…cheating ways or not.

ga gator

May 11th, 2010
10:49 am

Kiffinisatosser, so if the SEC is not the premier conference for football, which one would you say since you are such an observer?

Kiffinisatosser

May 11th, 2010
10:56 am

Ga Gator, of course the SEC is now the premier conference. But (i) it is not as dominant as folks like to think – USC danced a jig on the SEC when they played Auburn (who was good) and Arkie (who was not). Even lowly UConn laid a total ass kicking onto Carolina last year in he bowl game. (ii) it usually plays its most meaningful games with itself – poor OOC scheduling except Bama and Georgia of late. (iii) it now is getting a huge artificial boost from ESPN in the form of massive cash transfer. You seem to think I am an outsider but I grew up in the South and attended an SEC university.

Tide Rising

May 11th, 2010
11:00 am

Can’t understand why folks are always talking about getting rid of Arkansas.

They brought 2 basketball national championships to the sec, numerous track championships, and made 4 seccg appearances which is more than MSU 1, Ole Miss zero. and AU 2 combined. They have the boot rivalry with LSU, they have been a thorn in Bama’s side for years and have given AU and LSU a hard time quite a few times. They are competitive and bring a proud football tradition to the table and they pack a 72,000 plus stadium game in and game out. What’s the problem?

Somebody mentioned culture but I’ve been to Ark several times and to me they certainly don’t identify themselves as Westerners but more as southerners like the rest of us in Miss, Alabama, and Tenn. The single negative I can see is that when they win the west they have poor attendance at the seccg due to distance but that’s about it. Geographically they border 3 sec states including the states of 3 division rivals and the other 2 division rivals in Bama and AU are only 1 state removed. No reason to boot Ark whatsoever.

HugoStiglitz

May 11th, 2010
11:01 am

Kiffin, Rutgers is going to get an invite to the Big Ten because they are strong academically and because geographically they extend the footprint of the conference. They are actually a pretty good fit. There are some professors and administrators at Rutgers who are pretty opposed to joining though.

stubby

May 11th, 2010
11:03 am

Arkansas only won one NCAA basketball title, not two.

HogFan

May 11th, 2010
11:04 am

5IML,
Oh you had to bring up the defense. It is the only thing keeping us up at night. I think I am trying to block them out of my memory.

JB

May 11th, 2010
11:07 am

T3, buffoon, at large. Do you really think AR would leave the SEC? Is Jerry Jones, your obvious hero, gonna make up the $ difference? Sheeesh!!!! I don’t even know where to start with the rest of your buffoonery. I think I’ll let it’s insanity stand on its own.

Talking about buffoonery, who was it that said the SEC would go after USF or UCF??? REALLY?!?! Another wowser!

If the SEC exapnds, and it looks like it might, it will be folks like TX, FSU, CU, etc. To suggest other wise is… well.. buffoonery.

HBTD!!!

Kiffinisatosser

May 11th, 2010
11:08 am

Rutgers…academically…blah blah…New York market…blah blah. Hugo, you and I both know that Rutgers would be winning the lottery here. Syracuse or Pitt make much more sense.

Kiffinisatosser

May 11th, 2010
11:10 am

The money boys in Texas are not going to allow themselves to be edged out of anything. The SEC needs to understand that.

JB

May 11th, 2010
11:13 am

SC beating a few teams in the SEC, a while back, does not make the PAC 10, premier. Nor does it deminish the SEC to any great degree. Had SC had to play an SEC schedule, every year, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

HBTD!!!

stubby

May 11th, 2010
11:26 am

I could see South Florida eventually getting an invited but there is no way the Central Florida does, ever.

USF is in a pretty good spot, and will get even stronger in the future.

kenny d

May 11th, 2010
11:29 am

who really cares? as Ross Perot said Arkansas is just the chicken state
and no one realy give a “poop” what goes on there

LOL at T3!

May 11th, 2010
11:37 am

“Jones is a MULI-BILLIONAIRE. If Jones really wants Arkansas to leave the SEC, then Arkansas will leave. Period.”

Hilarious!

Tide Rising

May 11th, 2010
11:37 am

Kiffinisatosser

May 11th, 2010
10:08 am

Dear Bama delusionists…you lost 9 starters on your defense. Yes, the talent is good, but no experience = getting sliced and diced by a team like Arkansas…or …gulp…Auburn.

Kiffinisatosser,

We had to replace 8 new starters on offense coming into the 2009 season. Somehow people forget that. BTW, how did that work out for us?

If you know not of what you speak then you probably shouldn’t speak at all. 9 new defensive starters with no experience? LMAO. The front 7 will consist of guys who have either started multiple games such as Hightower, Chapman, Upshaw, Johnson, Dareus or guys who have played a significant amount of snaps in the rotation such as Luther Davis. The only true new starter in the front 7 will be linebacker Jerrell Harris a former 5 star recruit entering his 3rd year.

We will be short on experience in the defensive backfield as we replace 3 of 4 starters. But even then it is anchored by all america safety mark barron and the 2 new corners will be former 5 star recruits including the #1 rated corner 2 years ago in Dre Kirkpatrick. At the other safety job lester who was a former 4 star and will be pushed by a 5 star and other 4star recruits. Bottom line is that 3 of the 4 defensive starters will be 3rd year guys familiar with the system. Oh, and Saban personally coaches the dbs.

Answer me this. How is it that Marcel Dareus our terror of a defensive end, is already projected as the #2 pick in the 2011 NFL draft by Todd McShay and Mel Kiper has him projected as the #7 overall pick in the 2011 NFL draft. How can this be? The guy wasn’t even a starter last year. So if this guy who wasn’t even a starter last year is projected as the #2 or #7 draft pick next year by the 2 top draft analysts then exactly what does that tell you about the Alabama defense??? Kinda scary aint it?

Tide Rising

May 11th, 2010
11:44 am

T3,

Jerry Jones may be a billionaire but he is a piss ant compared the the Walton family of Walmart fame. They are heavily involved in Ark athletics and fundraising, endowments,etc. The basketball arena is named after Bud Walton. The Walton family has more of a say than Mr. Jones and their preference seems to be the SEC. from what I’m told by an Ark friend. Don’t know if that’s true or not but I do know they have a helluva lot more money and influence than Jerry Jones.

Charlie Bama

May 11th, 2010
11:44 am

Kiffinisatosser. Hey, HE tossed YOU, BubbaHillBilly. You guys didn’t toss him. Now go collect your burned dorm mattress from the UT lawn and go get ready for your 4-8 season.

Otto

May 11th, 2010
11:57 am

T3, Tide Rising points to the Waltons and their is no financial reason to move to the BigXII.

As for Texas never moving to the SEC, many reports had Texas joining the SEC for ‘92 in place of Arkansas until Tx A&M politicians put an end to that. Tx A&M would likely invited with Texas if the SEC decides to expand in that direction.

Delbert D.

May 11th, 2010
12:04 pm

“The ACC would look at ECU, and whichever schools in Florida are left.”

Can’t happen. East Carolina, USF, Central Florida are academic Tier 3 schools. The ACC presidents would not vote them in.

no authority

May 11th, 2010
12:10 pm

delbert, jumbo dumbo tiger and the rest of you sec morons don’t know squat…funny how you all want the losers in the acc to join your conference those who haven’t even won the acc so much as one time yet…the ugays and the lsu’s of the world need to start worrying about the decline of your own team before someone kicks your butt out of the conference your in…

jumbeauxtriger

May 11th, 2010
12:20 pm

That’s laughable that Jerry Jones pulls the strings at Arkansas. He has enough to worry about getting the Cowboys to actually make it past the 1st round of the playoffs. Oh well he did do that last season and how many years did it take them to do that?

HAWGIN'

May 11th, 2010
12:22 pm

I have been an Arkansas fan since 1973 (the year I was born) and I have seen speculation here and elsewhere that we may leave for the Big 12. Thanks TB for this article but some people still don’t seem to get it. THERE IS NO WAY ARKANSAS IS LEAVING THE SEC…EVER! 99% of boosters, including myself, would go absolutly crazy if this was even considered. I can also say that very few people in Arkansas think that this is even a remote possibility. IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
I could go into all of the reasons: money, competition, TV, etc but other already have. Let’s just put this to rest: ARKANSAS IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE.

PS: We’re going to win the SEC this year. First in baseball then in football…have a nice day.

TTech Nate

May 11th, 2010
12:25 pm

I’m going to add some Big 12 perspective to this conversation.

1. T3 – The Big 8 already included OU and OK State. Texas, A&M, Texas Tech and Baylor from the SWC merged with the Big 8.

2. Houston would be a terrible addition to the Big 12. Yes they have a ton of students, but absolutely no alumni support or fan base. They also bring no new TV markets to the Big 12. Between Texas, A&M and Tech the entire state is pretty well covered.

3. A&M has always thought of themselves as an SEC type program, Texas would never go to the SEC because of the academic standards. Texas will push for going to the PAC-10, they fit in culturally with the left coasters.

4. I really don’t know why Arkansas would ever leave the money machine that is the SEC. The revenue distribution will never change in the Big 12. If it does Texas will take its ball and go be independent.

jumbeauxtriger

May 11th, 2010
12:28 pm

Actually “no authority” as a LSU alumnus and active booster, I am concerned about the state of the LSU football program. If you were really on the ball, you would know I have stated my concerns on this board numerous times.

MUGGYY

May 11th, 2010
12:28 pm

FACT: The Arkansas AD has stated there are 7 million reasons to remain in the SEC. That in itself should put an end to all rumors.

Greg

May 11th, 2010
12:35 pm

Hawgin’, the Hogs aren’t going to win the SEC in baseball and certainly not in football. Not even close. Petrino will bolt in another year or two when it becomes obvious that he can’t be any more than a middle tier team in the SEC.

cajdawg

May 11th, 2010
12:39 pm

Why in the hell do people continue to recommend Clemson and GT for potential SEC expansion. The primary expansion criteria would be expansion of the TV market- sorry GT and Clemson don’t cut it.

Delbert D.

May 11th, 2010
12:39 pm

What if Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, and Vanderbilt left the SEC for a new 16 team super conference that included new TV markets in DC, Baltimore, Charlotte, and Raleigh-Durham? Add Jacksonville, Atlanta, Nashville, Birmingham, Chattanooga and Knoxville to that.

Sec fan

May 11th, 2010
12:51 pm

no authority,

You are a jerk

Butts Wagner

May 11th, 2010
12:55 pm

Yeah, I don’t think Arkansas should jump ship, but membership in the SEC is probably not in their hands.

heartofdarkness

May 11th, 2010
12:57 pm

In the land of boisterous free-marketeers, it is interesting that the largest industry is a state subsidized, semi-professional athletic league. Not state subsidized you say? But the labor force is paid in fixed tuition credits and taxpayer funded housing. And most stadium maintenance and improvements are funded by general obligation bonds. The fact that your state governments are run like private industries is another matter for another day. So just construct the league using the metric of who can pony up the most.

Pago Pago Dawg

May 11th, 2010
1:01 pm

We can’t believe the SEC would add “Free Shoe U” and “Thug U”!?

SteerPower

May 11th, 2010
1:06 pm

I’m with Alabama on this one…..Frankly, Arkansas is not much of a catch….I’d rather have a TCU for instance…TCU has better football, baseball, and probably basketball and is located in a large TV market. Arkansas is a little country college with no academics to crow about, not much money,No one can afford to by a tv in Arkansas and the ones that have pinched their pennies to buy a set only make up about 5 or 6 people….so, why would the Big 12 want them?. Arkansas is MY PENNY….they are worth so little, that I drop one I don’t even bother to bend over to pick it up.

hog fan

May 11th, 2010
1:07 pm

The money is better in the SEC for sure. Hog fans do miss the old rivalries with the Texas schools though but we have continued those to some extent while in the SEC. The other big thing is that Arkansas would likely be put in the Big XII north and end up playing schools in which we have no rivalries or regional affliations. Arkansas is a Southern state. Nebraska, Kansas , Missouri, Iowa and Colorado are not. We are where we belong and the money is a nice benefit for sure too!

That being said, Arkansas fans were highly perturbed at some of the officiating from last season and we had highly competitive football, basketball and baseball programs before we entered the SEC and likely would still have that if we left.

winterDawg

May 11th, 2010
1:10 pm

What has Arkansas done for the SEC? Well, given that they have stayed clear of NCAA sanctions and won a basketball NC and several others in other sports I’d argue they have done more for the competitiveness and integrity of the league in the 19 years since expansion than Alabama. Chew on that #2.

Gen Neyland

May 11th, 2010
1:11 pm

The SEC must have it’s border somewhere and Arkansas is just as good as any other state that surrounds the College Football Promise Land.

On the other hand, a vivid imagination is a strange and wonderful thing all at the same time. We could always dismantle the SEC by sending Tennessee, Kentucky and Vandy to the Big Ten. Florida, South Carolina, Georgia and Auburn to the ACC and Alabama, LSU and the MS schools to Conference USA. Arkansas..? Ahhh, let the Big 12 have ‘em. We’ll still have High School football here in Dixie…

bellcurve

May 11th, 2010
1:12 pm

A couple of points: One, neither Clemson or Ga. Tech add any new tv markets. meaning they wouldn’t bring much to the table. (plus I don’t think they really want to play an SEC team almost every week) Secondly, It would be nice to have Texas, but you also have to take A&M (Texas state law.

Texas Ex

May 11th, 2010
1:12 pm

I hate to burst your bubble, but AR wasn’t going to be asked to join the Big 12. So Frank Broyles didn’t ‘jump’ to the SEC because he was so ’shrewd’- he was mad about being cut out.

The SWC was a TX conference, run by powerful UT/Baylor grads (Ann Richards, et al) and they were adamant that Baylor get in or no deal. That’s right, no deal without Baylor. They cut out TCU, SMU, and Houston to make that deal, too – but AR was the one team nobody cared about. They at least argued over the others for a year or 2. AR knew it and jumped. FYI, nobody cared after they jumped either.

I’m not saying AR wouldn’t go back in the future, but don’t rewrite history. Their feelings were hurt when they realized the SWC was going to drop them like an ugly girl with no personality.

Buck N. Kincaid

May 11th, 2010
1:13 pm

We think “T 3″ has way too much time on his hands as he sits in front of his PC in the comfort of his mama’s basement.

The Ghost of Wally Butts

May 11th, 2010
1:15 pm

The good old SEC should dump Arkansas, Vandy, and Kentucky and add FSU, Ga Tech and Clemson.

What fun!

SteerPower

May 11th, 2010
1:17 pm

Yep, “Tide Rising”, Arkansas does identify more with Alabama, Mississipi, Tennessee…you know, mountain folks walking around barefooted with chicken poop between their toes, spittin on the ground, scratching their butts and anything else they can reach, marryin first cousins, chewin tabaccy, and cheerin those Hawgs! Gotcha selves a real catch there SEC!

hog fan

May 11th, 2010
1:19 pm

lol

The Big XII was not even in the works before Arkansas left for the SEC. The Big XII was formed because Arkansas left for the SEC.

Why would Arkansas not be asked to join the Big XII since we had the second best football program, second best baseball program and far away the best basketball and track programs in the SWC period and that is not debatable! You are just made because we ditched y’all and ended the little cozy Texas club y’all had!

T3 you're an idiot

May 11th, 2010
1:23 pm

T3, get a life you obnoxious dweeb. Maybe your first date (witha real woman) will end your meritless diatribe that we don’t care to read. Stick to fantasy football it seems more our style.

SteerPower

May 11th, 2010
1:24 pm

Dear “Bell Curve” where in the world did you hear there is a law that binds TAM to Texas?….Doesn’t exists…it was political pressure (threatening to cut funding for programs) that made them a team back in the 90’s…I believe Texas could do anything they want with or without TAM cause they have so much clout in state politics….But, on any fresh new day, TAM is a better sellection that about half the schools already in the SEC.. For instance, TAM brings a whole lot more to the table than Arkansas, Mississipi, MSU, Auburn, Kentucky, Vanderbilt,South Carolina and the SEC should get down on their knees to get a TAM…I personally don’t care much for the AGGIES, but one must give them their dues that in many ways they would be a super catch for the SEC.

DaveDawg

May 11th, 2010
1:25 pm

Big 12 loses Mizzou, Nebraska and Colorado (to the PAC 10) and adds TCU (Dallas), Houston and Colorado State (Denver). The two Oklahoma schools shift north:

Big 12 North:
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
Colorado State
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State

Big 12 South
Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Tech
Baylor
TCU
Houston

Not very exciting, but you will get a better championship game most years with Texas vs. Oklahoma.

Gen Neyland

May 11th, 2010
1:29 pm

SteerPower

May 11th, 2010
1:17 pm
Yep, “Tide Rising”, Arkansas does identify more with Alabama, Mississipi, Tennessee…you know, mountain folks walking around barefooted with chicken poop between their toes, spittin on the ground, scratching their butts and anything else they can reach, marryin first cousins, chewin tabaccy, and cheerin those Hawgs! Gotcha selves a real catch there SEC!

Steer Power : LMAO, son. In what part of Texas did you do your goat ropin’..?

Texas Ex

May 11th, 2010
1:34 pm

Sorry, but it’s true. The SWC and UT/Baylor power players didn’t have ties to AR. Plus, the big UT/AR rivaly was more one-sided than AR may know. UT fans weren’t unhappy to drop that game off the schedule. Going to Fayetteville to eat at Stucky’s and be harrassed by people in pig hats wasn’t as much fun as it might’ve looked to the home crowd.

It might have been foolish and shortsighted – and I’m sure AR fans think so – but it’s what happened. And Broyles was mad as hell. The Big 12 wasn’t formed when AR left, but it was definitely in the works. AR started looking around because they didn’t think they were being treated well, were aware they wree being stiffed during the SWC-Big 8 talks, and the SEC wanted to expand.

As for where AR stood in the SWC standing, it changed from year to year. Back in the day, A&M, Houston, TCU, and even Baylor had better teams. But AR was a good team in the SWC and I have no desire to debate about 2nd place.

Tide Rising

May 11th, 2010
1:39 pm

Steerpower,

You got some serious hate for the Arkansas folks with all your derogatory and condescending remarks about them. What’s that all about?

Anonymous

May 11th, 2010
1:42 pm

Everything is bigger and better in Texas or so they say. I once drove through that state on my way from California to Georgia. The only thing big about Texas is the endless miles of hill less, featureless, mountain less, ugly arse barren prairie. Aint no doubt that Texas is uglier than any state in the nation. Bigger and better? Only in number of tumbleweeds rollin cross that barren wasteland of a state.

Delbert D.

May 11th, 2010
1:44 pm

Tide Rising – “The Walton family held five spots in the top ten richest people in the United States until 2005.”

That’s from Wikipedia

Expando

May 11th, 2010
1:45 pm

Why not have Texas and Texas Tech join the SEC West and Fla State and Miami join the SEC East??

Garth

May 11th, 2010
1:45 pm

Who gives a flying f**k if the hogs leave the SEC. SEC teams should be in the southeast. We don’t need that western trash cluttering up our
conference, and, yes, Clemson should be in the SEC. We need more local teams that can kick the dogs’ ass. I’m tired of the Gators having to do it every season.

Expando

May 11th, 2010
1:49 pm

Or…………….Oklahoma and Ok State join the SEC West and Fla state and South Fla(or Miami) join the SEC East

Sec fan

May 11th, 2010
1:49 pm

Delbert D.,

Don’t tell that to steerpower. May make him realize that not everything is bigger and better in Tejas. Probably ticks him off that some of dem der hillbillies over in Arky are far richer than anyone in Tejas. Aint dat a hoot.

Expando

May 11th, 2010
1:51 pm

or…………………….as Garth says…..Clemson joining FSU in the SEC East???

HAWGIN'

May 11th, 2010
1:52 pm

Dear Texas Ex,

I hope you don’t believe all the stuff you’re typing. None of it is even remotely true and I think you know it. You just like to stir the pot. At least I hope you know you’re creating history, otherwise I have to doubt you mental capacity.
Arkansas left the sinking ship that was the SWC and the ship sank all the faster because we left. Listen to TB and others who are your mental superior: Frank Broyles orchestrated one of the shrewdest and most timely moves in college football history. The SEC is far and away the best conference in America and will be for the foreseeable future. Meanwhile the Big 12 is springing leaks, looking more and more like the SWC every day, it’s only a matter of time before it sinks too.

Expando

May 11th, 2010
1:54 pm

oR………..Clemson and North Carolina in the SEC East???Butch Davis is doing a hell of a job with UNC.

Texas Ex

May 11th, 2010
1:55 pm

SteerPower – you’re crazy to think TX A&M would be a bonus to the SEC. They don’t have anything other than in-state appeal and don’t have a tv market at all. Really, how many Aggies does one meet outside the great state of TX?

But don’t think Aggies don’t have a lot of clout in TX politics. They do and they’ll be in the middle of any talk regarding conference jumping. UT has the most clout, but TX isn’t a state that plays well with others and they do stick together. And that includes Baha TX, or Oklahoma for those who aren’t familiar with the area.

Expando

May 11th, 2010
1:55 pm

How about UNC AND FSU in the SEC East????????????????????

Expando

May 11th, 2010
1:56 pm

or Miami and UNC in the SEC East????????????

Otto

May 11th, 2010
1:57 pm

DaveDawg, Nobody wants Houston or Colorado State and more importantly vast majority of the TV markets don’t care.

Utah, BYU or Boise St are far more likely than those 4 teams.

It would be interesting if Oklahoma is moved to the North. The BigXII does not have any permanent rivals from other divisions like the SEC and ACC. OU would fight to keep Texas as they depend on recruiting Texas for the strength of their program.

Otto

May 11th, 2010
1:58 pm

* typo those 2 teams

Otto

May 11th, 2010
2:00 pm

Expando, UF does not want Miami and many of the SEC fan bases have not managed to get past the U’s past ways.

UNC? they will be among the last to leave the ACC.

FSU is more likely as UF would be more accepting as they play them every year as it is.

Ormewood

May 11th, 2010
2:00 pm

I’ll be glad when we can start talking about what’s taking place on the field rather than the daily rundown of why this team or that team does/doesn’t belong in the SEC/Big 10/ACC/etc. August practices can’t get here soon enough.

Alabama Jack

May 11th, 2010
2:01 pm

lets move on to the real stuff are the delusional dawgs gonna try to field a team again this year or not?

Dollars and Sense

May 11th, 2010
2:03 pm

Auburn moves to the SEC East and Texas and Texas A&M join the SEC West- was that so hard?
SEC will have to take both Texas and A&M. Not sure if the SEC really needs both FSU and Miami.
SEC already owns Atlanta so it definitely doesn’t need Tech.

Mike

May 11th, 2010
2:04 pm

Arkansas will stay in the SEC. You can bank on it.

Texas Ex

May 11th, 2010
2:10 pm

Ooh, ouch, anonymous. As one who was born and raised in TX, I feel the need to respond. TX is both a pretty and ugly state, depending on what region you’re visiting. Because it’s so large, it has the hill country, the desert SW, the piney woods, the gulf coast, the mexican border, the grasslands, and even the panhandle plains. It can take days to drive across, depending on your path. You’re description sounds like you drove I-20 / I-40 through the plains. Big highways and surely not as pretty as GA, I agree.

But a few things TX does have that we seem to be missing here in GA are a thriving economy, a housing market that hasn’t been decimated by inflated pricing and bad loans, no state income tax, and politicians who seem to be able to run a state and keep it solvent. So while you might not have seen anything out of your car window that looked like beautiful GA, there are plenty of reasons people choose to live in TX.

I love GA’s beauty, but I miss TX’s economy.

T3

May 11th, 2010
2:10 pm

Some of these “comments” are also “busch-league.”

Lets recap a few of the more arrogant & mis-guided comments TB made:

1. “Let me tell you in no uncertain terms why that won’t happen.”
(The POSSIBILITY of a an Arkansas move simply CAN NOT be ruled out).

2. “When you are trying to guess what school will land where if there is expansion upheaval, remember that these decisions made on the basis of money.”
(Totally incorrect. University PRESIDENTS make these decisions, not ADs, nor HCs, nor Conference Directors. Period. For exampe, NO WAY IN HELL the Big10 would EVER…EVER…consider adding West Virgina. Why? Because EVERY member of the Big10 is an AAU member, and carries BIG clout, when it comes to getting billions in FEDERAL research money. West Virginia is an academic “back-water” by comparison. So, TB is VERY WRONG. It aint ALL about the money. But, since TB is a COMPLETE SEC homer, his VERY mis-guided (Its only about the money) assement doesnt surprise me at all).

3. “Also remember that the SEC and the Big Ten are the big financial dogs in this game.” (Yes, for now. But, not for long. When the Big12 renews their TV contracts (and the possible “alliance” deal with the Pac10, it will DWARF what the SEC earns.)

4. “Arkansas is not going to jump off the SEC train for less money in the Big 12. And they would get less money.”
(TB “assumes” Arkansas will get LESS MONEY. The point isnt even logical. Arkansas will PROBABLY mmove for MORE money, but they also might move for THE SAME MONEY. If the BIg12 wants Arkansas, they will HAVE to see to it that Arkansas earns at least $17Million.

The KEY point being made (that so many have obviously missed)
was this:

The…POSSIBILITY…of Arkansas going to the Big12
CAN NOT be ruled out or casually dismissed as TB suggests

And, there are circumstances and people that might want to
influence Arkansas to CONSIDER going to the Big12.

Arkansas has a LONG, HISTORICAL relationship with teams from the old SWC. There are Arkansas alumni, like Jerry Jones, that might like the idea of having Arkansas in the Big12, rather than the SEC.

Jerry Jones is OBVIOUSLY not in charge of the decision-making for Arkansas, but, he has LOTS & LOTS & LOTS OF MONEY with which to “influence” this consideration. If he really wanted Arkansas to move, he will bring a “significant” degree of influence to the decision process. What if Jerry Jones just CHOSE to write a VERY VERY LARGE check to the University of Arkansas? U of Arkansas administration would PROBABLY “carefully’ evaluate the POSSIBILITY of going to the Big12.

You dont think an alum cant have THAT kind of influence.
Just look at Bobby Lowder and his alma mater, Auburn.
BTW, Lowder has millions. Jones has BILLIONS.

As for my opinion of Jones, I dont like him AT ALL.
I…WAS…a life-long Cowboys fan…until Jones
threw Tom Landry under the bus. What a B*stard !!!!
I quit being a Cowboys fan after that.

Agreed, Arkansas aint gonna move for less than $17 Million/Year.
As the owner of the DALLAS(TEXAS) Cowboys, dont think he couldnt talk with his “friends” at the Big12, about “fixing” the revenue sharing in the Big12.

The point remains: the POSSIBILITY of Arkansas
leaving the SEC cant be ruled out.

Tide Rising

May 11th, 2010
2:11 pm

I just realized that in the midst of all these conference moves both now and in the future does anyone stop and think about the loss of historic rivalries? I remember growing up that one of the greatest rivalries going was OU-Nebraska two of the all time heavyweights in college football. With the big 12 they still play but they play only occasionally so the rivalry has already been weakened. If Neb goes to the big 10 then we lose what was one of the greatest rivalries of all time completely.

Even Ark-Texas had a decent rivalry and I read that in the last 20 years in the old swc that the ark-texas game determined the swc champion something 16 of those 20 years. They still have a home and home in deference to that rivalry occasionally but its a good rivalry that some of us would like to see played more often.

Mike

May 11th, 2010
2:14 pm

I would love to see Clemson and Florida State join the SEC East. That would involve moving Tenn to the SEC West.

RamblinRed

May 11th, 2010
2:15 pm

Otto,

in regards to the renegotiation of the TV contracts. You are correct, you could renegotiate – but it might not be in the best interest to do so.
The SEC managed to negotiate the contract right before the economy tanked. if they had to renegotiate it right now, there is a good chance they would be unable to wring any more money out given the state of the economy. Actually, if they re-opened it I guarantee you the first thing the networks would ask for is a smaller payout given the current financial conditions.

Tide Rising

May 11th, 2010
2:19 pm

T3,

Ark has relationships with Texas and Tam only out of the old swc and now the big 12. Ark has practically no relationship with the other 9-10 members of the current big 12 and as we’ve noted they are culturally much more aligned with the states bordering them such as LA, Miss, TN, then with Texas or other big 12 states like Colorado, Iowa, Nebraska, etc.

Also, as noted earlier Jerry Jones is not the only big money influence. The Walton family as I’ve pointed out are much more involved with Ark than Jerry is and they have much more of an interest in where Ark stays or goes. And they have a lot more money than Jerry Jones every will as delbert D pointed out.

Last, from what I’ve seen every or almost all of the Ark posters on here have stated that its pretty much a given that its the desire of the alumni and people associated with Ark that they remain in the sec. That’s straight from the hawg’s mouth so to say.

Tide Rising

May 11th, 2010
2:22 pm

Mike,

I’ve likewise pointed that out several times that if we added say FSU and or Clemson to the conference then it would best to move UT to the west and keep FSU in the same division as UF. UT already has a natural rivalry with Bama and used to have the same with AU so whatever we do as far as adding 1-3 teams it would make sense to move UT west.

HanDAWG

May 11th, 2010
2:23 pm

Best TB article in months. Tony should stick to this type stuff, because he is not a good game prognosticator at all. As cited at http://www.bighairyblawg.com, his history of predicting games is annually statistically poor (and done on TV without point spreads).

HanDAWG

May 11th, 2010
2:24 pm

Team least likely to move that gets mentioned: TEXAS

GT GRAD

May 11th, 2010
2:25 pm

Hey Tony,

You forgot to mention the fact that the SEC does not want Arkansas to bolt from the SEC………..because they need to keep 6-7 soft teams in the SEC (Arkansas is definitely one) and they do not want to bring in a really solid football team to replace a team like Arkansas. All SEC teams play VERY soft out-of-conference schedules and then they get to play several soft SEC teams as well. This allows the Top 4-5 SEC teams to have winning records each & every year!

The plan works very well indeed. It would be a public nightmare if the SEC had to replace one of the soft SEC teams…………if they bring in a really good team to replace the soft team that bolted they will have too much competition; however, if they bring in a soft team to replace the soft team that bolted it will be too obvious and the SEC master plan will be exposed.

Arkansas, Vanderbilt, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Kentucky & South Carolina (as well as Auburn & Tennessee in recent years) do not scare the Top 30 teams in NCAA Football. So much SEC hype, but I must admit……….the SEC master plan works very well. It is simply shameful that 6 of the 8 SEC teams I listed above are not willing to play decent to solid teams out-of-conference. {then again, when these teams play GT (a team that most SEC fans would say is a soft ACC team) they almost always end up with a LOSS on the schedule – Auburn twice, Miss St twice, Vanderbilt twice, Miss in the past 10 years says it all}.

Hoggus

May 11th, 2010
2:26 pm

As a lifelong Razorback fan, the greatest thing that has ever happened to the program was to be invited to play in the greatest conference in America. 99% of Arkansans have southern values, southern traditions and love the SEC. No one with common sense in this state wants to leave the SEC but, hey, we all a few morons running around. Please don’t take a few idiot comments to represent those of 99% of Arkansans.

T3

May 11th, 2010
2:30 pm

Tide:

Agreed. Walton family is clearly VERY important to the University of Arkansas. Couldnt tell you whether they consider themselves SEC fans or Big 12 fans. Doesnt really matter.

Jones and/or Waltons will LIKLEY support “whatever” is in the BEST interst of the U-Arkansas.

Again, the key point is that a move cant be ruled out…
just because SEC super-homer TB says…
“Let me tell you in no uncertain terms why that won’t happen.”

Texas Ex

May 11th, 2010
2:30 pm

Well, Hawgin’, I didn’t make a disparaging remark about the SEC or if AR jumping in was good or bad. But the truth is that way back when the Big 12 was created, the SWC didn’t care about AR joining. SWC was all TX teams and AR. The governor of TX and other state officials held up the forming of the Big 12 to fight to get their teams in. And because some wanted Baylor in so badly, they were willing to jettison other teams. And AR didn’t like the way they were being treated and left a couple of years before the talks were completed. And the reason the talks took so long was because of Houston, TCU, even Rice and SMU brokers wanted their teams in. They obviously didn’t win that battle.

I think it was a better deal for AR, especially at that time. If they’d waited and TX brokers got their way, Baylor was in and AR was out. So you can call Broyles shrewd if you like, but he just saw the writing on the wall. TX powerbrokers were jockeying for their own schools and AR wasn’t one of them.

Don’t be so sensitive. The SEC and the Hogs are great, okay? I’m glad they got a good deal and made the right choice, alright? SEC good. AR good. SWC bad.

Beast from the East

May 11th, 2010
2:31 pm

I don’t see Arkansas going anywhere and I think they fit in nicely with the conference. They’ve been competetive in the big 3 sports (football, baseball and basketball). If I’m not mistaken, they’ve represented the west in more SECG’s than anyone other than Bama. Let’s not all freak out just yet. I think we need to sit back and see what happens up north before we hit the panic button. I see the Big 10 adding 3 more teams to make them a 14 team conference. That shouldn’t require a major overhaul of every other conference out there!

gabriel

May 11th, 2010
2:33 pm

It makes sense to me that Arkansas goes to the Big 12. I am sure any financial concerns would be addressed and it gets them back to their historical roots. As someone else mentioned, Arkansas can go where Jerry Jones wants them to.

Assuming a bigger shakeup happens, the Big 12 should add TCU and SMU to reunite the SWC, and Louisiana Tech for a complete Ark-LA-Tex presence.

Tide Rising

May 11th, 2010
2:34 pm

GT Grad,

Arkansas is “soft”? And the sec wants this “soft” team in the west so that they can accumulate easy wins. When Ark and Texas were in the old swc the conference title was pretty much a 2 horse race between Texas and Ark in most years. They are hardly soft. Please show me one team in the ACC whose butt Arkansas couldn’t put a whupping on this year? If they can take Florida to the wire they can dang sure beat anybody in the ACC. And as far as being soft Ark has a couple of national championships to its credit and several old swc titles to its credit which is more than you can say for the majority of teams in the acc. Probably FSU, Miami have more conference and national titles and possibly GT then Ark and that’s probably about it. The other 8-9 in the ACC fall behind Arky in terms of all time conference titles, championships, etc.

Sec fan

May 11th, 2010
2:36 pm

Gabriel,

Other than Texas and Texas AM what historic roots does arky have with the rest of the big 12. Practically none.

Tide Rising

May 11th, 2010
2:38 pm

Beast from the East,

A voice of reasoning. I would agree. Lets wait and see what the big 10 does. Also, if they go to a 14 team conference I don’t see any big need for the sec to change from a 12 team conference. We may or may not. If they go to 16 then yes a gauntlet would have been thrown down but we’ll just have to wait and see.

Mike

May 11th, 2010
2:40 pm

ARKANSAS WILL NOT LEAVE THE SEC. Arkansas pulls top level recruits from its border states……Oklahoma, Missouri, Texas, etc. SIMPLY BECAUSE Arkansas is in the SEC. A couple of examples: Ronnie Wingo from Missouri. Calvin Barnett from Oklahoma. Both could have had scholarships to their home states….. U of Oklahoma and U of Missouri (Big 12), but they want to play in the SEC. If Arkansas was in the Big 12 they would not get athletes such as those two. As they say in the real estate market…….. location, location, location. The University of Arkansas owns a very valuable piece of real estate………. the State of Arkansas.

Sec fan

May 11th, 2010
2:45 pm

If the sec has 6-7 soft teams in the conference then what does the ACC have? 8-9 soft teams including GT? Or 12 soft teams considering only VT has won one single bcs game in the last 10 years? VT and FSU and Miami can be historically considered tough teams. The rest of the conference is soft. Please don’t tell me that Wake, Duke, NC State, UNC for most its existence, BC, Clemson and GT aren’t soft teams. They are soft in that none of these teams have ever been in the national picture in the last 20-30 years. Only 3 teams FSU, Miami, and VT have been in the national title picture in the last 30 years and none of them have been in the national title hunt in almost 10 years.

Beast from the East

May 11th, 2010
2:46 pm

Agreed, Tide Rising. The SEC will only need to react IF the Big 10 goes to 16 teams. Personally, I don’t see that happening. If it does, it will surely change the landscape.

Deep Throat

May 11th, 2010
2:46 pm

“Follow the money”

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May 11th, 2010
2:47 pm

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Beast from the East

May 11th, 2010
2:50 pm

SEC Fan, I think you’re forgetting about GT in 1990. You could also make a similar statement about the SEC. Other than UF, LSU, Bama and UT who has won a national title in our conference in the past 25 years? I don’t think that’s being totally fair. I think everyone agrees that the SEC has been a superior conference in football for some time but the ACC appears to be heading in the right direction.

Tide Rising

May 11th, 2010
2:55 pm

Beast from the East,

Looking at the ACC vs SEC debate I would argue that both AU and UGA have been nationally relevant. UGA has had 1 or 2 runnerup finishes and AU the perfect season in 04 when they didn’t get to play for it. Finishing 2nd or 3rd sounds like they were in the national title picture. Plus to me those are programs that have the recruiting base, alumni support and facilities, etc. to put it all together in any given year and win a national title. JMHO of course.

Zaaaaaaa Nachos

May 11th, 2010
2:57 pm

Saban rules!!!!

Bleeeeeeeeee! I want my chocolate milk NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SteerPower

May 11th, 2010
2:57 pm

Dear, Dear Mike…you have a short memory…when Ark was in the SWC they were a major recruiter in Texas (probably as many as 1/2 of their players had TX after his name) and that is why they had some pretty durn good teams back in the 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s, but once they left the SWC a lot of that recruiting ability dried up and Arkansas has never really gotten back to being a perennial football powerhouse like they once were in the old SWC…so, leaving a conference and a recruiting area can most definitely have a devastating effect on a school. The only NC teams and close to NC teams Ark ever had were in the SWC with Texas High School Players manning the boats.

Sec fan

May 11th, 2010
2:57 pm

Make that 20 years u want to throw tech in there.

HAWGIN'

May 11th, 2010
2:57 pm

Texas Ex,

The only problem I have is your revisionist history especially your timeline. Arkansas and Texas were approached about leaving the SWC for the SEC. Texas, due to political reasons that you seem familiar with was unable to leave. Arkansas left…because the grass was much greener in the SEC. Not because we were about to be excluded from a conference that did not even exist at the time we left.

Arkansas left because it was a good deal. Period. All other nonesence is a frabrication.

Hope that clears it up for you.

Tide Rising

May 11th, 2010
3:01 pm

Uh oh. Nachos is back! You Auburn fans better go into hiding.

SteerPower

May 11th, 2010
3:03 pm

Dear Mike, what’s so valuable about Arkansas? I’ve been there and all I saw was a lot of shanty type houses lining narrow, bumpy unkept roads and a lot of trees…outside of maybe some nice lakes for fishing, I don’t see anything so valuable there.

And, I agree that Arkansas will never leave the SEC….where else could they go and add so little and get so much back? That’s like having a Government Job….put as little effort as possible in, never get fired unless the boss catches you with his wife, get a real nice pay check at the end of the month, get your mandatory yearly cost of living raises and all the perks that go with it, but never really have to be aggressive, hard working, or diligent…just have to occasionally show up and leave the bosses’ wife alone.

Beast from the East

May 11th, 2010
3:05 pm

Tide, I agree. That’s why I said I didn’t think that was a fair statement. Probably didn’t word it too well, though. Bottom line is the SEC has been the dominant conference for some time….especially the last 10 years. I do think the ACC will improve their BCS showings in the next 3-5 years. FSU will get better, Tech is imrpoving, UNC is getting better, VT is always solid. They need Miami and Clemson to improve, but I don’t think they’ve got the right coaches to bring them much more than 8-4 or 9-3 seasons.

SteerPower

May 11th, 2010
3:06 pm

“Hawgin”…let me clear it up for YOU… TexasEx revisionist history was a lot more right than yours…My father was a State Senator during that period and he kept me informed about all the ‘behind the scenes” activity, and Texas Ex is pretty much right on!

T3

May 11th, 2010
3:14 pm

Just consider this:

Big 12 is curretly:

NORTH: Nebraska, Mizzou, Iowa State, Kansas, KanSt, Colorado.
SOUTH: OK, OKSt, TX, TxAM, TxTech, Baylor,

If Nebraska and/or Mizzou leave the Big12 for a bigger Big10,
what will they Big12 do next?

Option 1: Will they stay at 10? Would they stay at 10 and form an “allaince” with the Pac10 that has been rumored?

Options 2: Will they join the SEC?

Option 3: Will they look to replace those two teams?

Option 1: Medium probability.

While its possible, just dont see the Big12 staying with 10 teams. An “alliance” with the Pac10 is possible whether Big12 is 12 or 10 teams.

Option 2: Lowest probability.
No chance in Hell.

Option 3: Highest Probability.

Big12 repalces two teams. The only question becomes…who.

The MOST LIKLEY candidates:
Arkansas, Houston, BYU, Utah, NewMex, NewMexSt, UTEP.
SMU, and TCU are good schools, but VERY small.
So, while not impossible, just not very likely.

Arkansas would be the CLEAR FRONT-RUNNER, with Houston and UTEP very close second & third b/c both are large Texas schools, which matters A LOT to the State of Texas.

If Colorado also leaves Big12, BYU or Utah becomes likely repalcement candidate. If Big 12 & Pac10 cut an “alliance” deal, Colorado would likely stay in the Big12.

Bank on it: Nebraska is headed to the Big10.
No reason whatsoever for them to stay in the Big12.

Highly probable Mizzou is too. However, MIzzous recruits a lot in Texas.

So…under the HIGHEST PROBABILITY Big12 scenario…
Arkansas would be the PREMIER candidate for the Big12 to call on.

And yet “Mr. College Football” totally dismisses that with…
“Let me tell you IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS why that won’t happen.”

Anyone else notice that TB…NEVER…mentioned this issue…
until the news came out the Big10 offered both Nebraska and Mizzou.

That announcement meant the Big12 was gonna be going “shopping.” Coincidence? Nope.

The very fact that TB (Mike Slive’s “mouthpiece”)
trotted this pathetic piece out…so soon after the Big10 “news”
tells me that, quietly behind the scenes, it is ACTIVELY being considered.

In fact, I imagine by now the Big12 has ALREADY had
a casual conversation with some Arkansas “people”
for, ahem, contingency planning purposes.

TB is a hack.

GT Ball Fan

May 11th, 2010
3:15 pm

Arkansas will not leave the SEC. The SEC is fine with 12 teams, I don’t think expansion brings a whole lot more to the table. Outside of Notre Dame, I think SEC teams get the biggest payout (TV revenue + Bowl revenue). With that said, I don’t see anybody from the ACC jumping ship to the SEC. The names that keep coming up are Miami, FSU, Clemson and GT aren’t going anywhere any time soon!

Suspended SEC Officiating Crew

May 11th, 2010
3:20 pm

We sincerely apologize to Arkansas,……………. for taking away their victory over Florida last year.

Beast from the East

May 11th, 2010
3:24 pm

Suspended, why do dawgs obsess over that call more than the Razorbacks? I guess when you can’t beat someone yourself, you just pray like heck that someone else does. Keep on whining and let us know where that gets you (see Josh Smith).

John

May 11th, 2010
3:31 pm

SEC = more money, but exactly how much? That’s the issue. Wins will come easier in the Big 12 and the revenue that follows those wins come close the gap and even provide more.

ga native

May 11th, 2010
3:32 pm

i agree.

arkansas is a good candidate for the big-12 to poach from the sec.

Hogfan_1

May 11th, 2010
3:34 pm

All of this is a mute point, especially since ARKANSAS will win the SEC this year in football. Go Hogs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tide Rising

May 11th, 2010
3:45 pm

Beast from the East,

Drives you nuts don’t it. I’ve been hearing the same thing about how the refs stole our game from UT because Cody should have been penalized for taking his helmet off. Never mind that had they called the penalty that we would have retained possession of the ball since the penalty would have been assessed AFTER the play. Some of these folks you just can’t argue with. For the record I thought the 15 yarder against the Ark defensive player was a terrible call but I also think Florida had too much momentum at the time and couldn’t have been stopped anyway. As Pat Dye used to say ” We had about 115 other plays in the game to make a difference. I’m not going to blame a loss on one bad call when we had plenty of other opportunities to change the outcome”. I always did like Pat Dye even if he was an Auburn man.

Shankit

May 11th, 2010
3:47 pm

Reptiles Rule
Division 1 football is already ruined.
It’s all about the money, don’t give a
hoot about their ol’ loyal fans, only the
ones that have the cash.
Same with the Masters and their badges.

SteerPower

May 11th, 2010
3:50 pm

SteerPower

May 11th, 2010
3:53 pm

I just heard on the local news that Texas officials and SEC Commissioner are having a news conference this afternoon at 5PM..

HAWGIN'

May 11th, 2010
3:54 pm

SteerPower,

Really?

So you know what really happened because…wait for it…your daddy told you so?

Really?

I guess I’ll just have to rely on Frank Broyles own account. I suppose now you’ll call Frank a liar yadda, yadda, yadda…

Is it so hard to believe that Arkansas left solely because it was a good deal for them? Does it hurt Texas pride so much to believe that simple truth?

I guess it’s much easier to believe some elaborate conspiracy theroy about Arkansas being excluded from some future conference that did not exist at the time. The SEC is better than the SWC. The SEC is better than the Big Twelve…those are facts. And those are why Arkansas is in the SEC today and it’s why they’ll be in the SEC for a long time to come.

Tide Rising

May 11th, 2010
4:00 pm

I’m neutral in this Hog/ Horn debate but I remember when all this went down. To me its common knowledge that the SEC made overtures to Ark, it was a good deal and Ark bolted. The big 12 was not even in existence at the time so how could Ark be spurned by a conference that had yet to be in existence? I would probably agree with Tony who said Broyles was a shrewd negotiator and got a deal done with the SEC well in advance.

WizardofhOgZ

May 11th, 2010
4:01 pm

T3 – where to begin?

Let me start with your Jerry Jones fixation.

You speak as if it is a given that Jones not only prefers that Arkansas be in the Big 12, but that he’s consumed by it and would do almost anything to make it happen.

Would you please provide one link that backs that up – even mildly. I do NOT want your opinion on the matter; I want FACTS.

If yall you’re going by is that he was behind getting Arkansas to play A&M in the “Southwest Classic” at Jerry World, then you are mistaken – because that was ALL about generating huge revenue for the Razorback program, and recruiting access to the talent-rich DFW area. That it also benefits A&M is irrelevant – someone had to play Arkansas there.

Also, your moronic statement about Jones “throwing Tom Landry under the bus” shows me all I need to know about hour football acumen. Riddle me this, Batman – what happens to NFL coaches whose teams go 7–9, 7–8 and 3–13 in consecutive seasons?

That’s right – they get fired. And had new ownership (Jones) not moved in after the 1988 season, prior owner Bum Bright is on record as admitting that he would have fired Landry as well (see link below). It’s just that loyal Dallas fans hated to see him go and focused their wrath that the convenient newcomer rather than the coach that had forced the issue by becoming ineffective.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/1431/one-of-jerry-jones-biggest-regrets

Your scenario for Arkansas “demanding” that the Big 12 cough up more than the $17 million they will make this year from the SEC (while Texas is getting $12 million this year) is ludicrous. Yeah – and I’m going to walk my ugly arse into Spielberg’s office and demand that he sign me a deal better than Tom Cruise or Tom Hanks have!

A) The money is not there to do that. B) Texas will NOT allow anyone to make as much money as they do, let alone make more.

As a corollary to the above, one of the reasons Arkansas left the SWC was the uneven revenue splitting that Texas demanded, and there is no way they will go back to a conference with such an arrangement (= Big 12).

Finally – what does the blathering you spend your entire last paragraph about (your first post in the thread) have to do with ANYTHING relevant here? Who cares where Broyles played his college ball, or that he stayed at Arkansas when he had the chance to return to Tech 40 years ago? That’s all very interesting, but I don’t see what it has to do with this discussion.

There’s more to quibble with in your post – but that’s enough to discredit you sufficiently to invalidate your entire post.

Louisiana Monroe Fan

May 11th, 2010
4:03 pm

We did’nt need the officials to help us beat big bad Bama in Bryant-Denney.

Big Man

May 11th, 2010
4:06 pm

T3 laid it down……

Petrino Suitcase Company

May 11th, 2010
4:06 pm

UGA beat Arkansas …….Beast of the East.

Delbert D.

May 11th, 2010
4:08 pm

gabriel – You’re a real angel, but..

Sorry, I apologize; I just couldn’t resist that one. Anyway, I doubt the reconstitution of the SWC will occur. Texas wants bigger fish to fry, and those are out on the left coast. They and Texas A&M, plus the Oklahoma pair could join the PAC 10 and form the Best Western.

I prefer for the sake of the SEC schools in the east that *most* of them conspire with much of the existing ACC to capture the TV markets of DC, Baltimore, Charlotte and Raleigh-Durham, plus Richmond. With the strong football reps of the SEC East conspirators, that captures the Piedmont from Birmingham through the Carolinas, plus Nashville and Knoxville.

Kentucky could be better served by joining with basketball power Kansas in remnants of the Big 12. If Texas, Texas A&M and the Oklahomas don’t go left-coastal, the Big xx should happily accept Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss and Miss. St. with little complaint, with their conference otherwise falling apart with the loss of Mo and Neb. They could even take Miami, since the new/old “Southern Conference” of 16 teams would have to trim a few. I imagine Boston College would want to follow ND to the Big Ten+6. Rutgers already has the offer, apparently, and that extends the Big Ten+6 northern sweep from the great plains to Boston.

The Big Ten+6 wins huge TV contract $$, the Southern wins huge TV contract $$, and Don’t Mess with Texas gets to remain king of the fire ant region.

Coach in waiting room

May 11th, 2010
4:09 pm

Don’t mess with the SEC……… muschamp.

T3

May 11th, 2010
4:15 pm

Historical records.

The approx number of times Arkansas has played
the following teams over the past 100 years:

Baylor: 68
Houston: 18
OK: 14
OK State: 45
Rice: 64
SMU: 68
Texas: 77
Texas A&M: 63
TCU: 66
Texas Tech: 35
Tulsa: 68

Bama: 20
Auburn: 18
LSU: 53
Ole Miss: 55
Miss St: 19
SoCar: 19
Tenn: 16

Delbert D.

May 11th, 2010
4:15 pm

shankit – “Division 1 football is already ruined.”

We spell that “rurnt.”

I kind of agree, but it’s also about survival now. The Big Ten+6 is imminent, and Iran has nukes.

bob

May 11th, 2010
4:19 pm

boston college back to big east louisville into acc .then merge acc and sec into super conf

WizardofhOgZ

May 11th, 2010
4:21 pm

Steerpower,

Let’s be clear about this – just because your Pop was busy molesting interns in Austin doesn’t give you any credibility here. And while your tale is sprinkled with “some” truth, the overall story just doesn’t bear out.

I will say that it’s true that Broyles fretted about what would come after the inevitable break-up of the dysfunctional SWC. But rather than wait to see “what happened next”, Broyles was proactive in forming a solution for his school so he wouldn’t become a victim (see Rice, SMU, TCU, Houston). In fact – as Broyles has been quoted as saying for years now – Texas and A&M wanted to come to the SEC along with Arkansas. But the SEC wanted Arkansas and Texas; and the Horns’ A.D. told Broyles to “go first”, because he couldn’t, politically. But that once Arkansas had gone (and mortally injured the SWC), he would be able to do so. Of course, he was NOT able to deliver on that promise because of the difficulties encountered in the Texas legislature.

So, it IS fair to claim Broyles as being visionary. Had he stayed, he may – or may not – have had more options; but it is clear that he ended up with the best option by being proactive. Texas may deny it, but they with they had been able to do the same thing.

Read this: http://blog.al.com/press-register-sports/2010/04/finebaum_how_texas_nearly_join.html

Tide Rising

May 11th, 2010
4:25 pm

T3,

Those are good numbers and shows that Ark has some good rivalries with a handful of big 12 teams. But the reality is that if Texas and TAM both go pac 10 then there would only be historic rivalries left with Baylor/Ok state and to a lesser degree Texas Tech in the big 12. Not enough reason to warrant leaving the money of the sec to play in a totally revamped and weakened big 12 after the big 10 and pac 10 raid the big 12 for Texas, TAM, NEB, MIZZOU, and maybe Colorado.

Tide Rising

May 11th, 2010
4:27 pm

T3,

Also, since TEX and TAM would be gone it looks like Ark has a much bigger historic rivalry with LSU and Ole Miss 53 and 55 games each then they would with the remnants of the big 12 in Ok state 45 games and Tex Tech 35 games.

[...] Arkansas isn’t leaving the SEC So, ESPN has picked up this article written by Tony Barnhart about why Arkansas isn’t leaving the SEC anytime soon.  My [...]

Delbert D.

May 11th, 2010
4:41 pm

bob – ACC wouldn’t take Louisville; they are a Tier 3 academic school.

T3

May 11th, 2010
4:54 pm

Wizard: Reading is FUNDAMENTAL. Try it sometime.

Let me copy/paste E-X-A-C-T-L-Y what I wrote:

“Arkansas has a LONG, HISTORICAL relationship with teams from the old SWC. There are Arkansas alumni, like Jerry Jones, that might like the idea of having Arkansas in the Big12, rather than the SEC.”

I SPECIFICALLY stated that Jones…
“…might like the idea of having Arkansas in the Big12…”

Jones may not care…AT ALL.

But, if Jones DOES have an interest in the idea, then it wouldnt come as a surprise if he wanted to add his influence to the idea. Doesnt guarantee anything.

What it SOOO difficult for you to understand about THAT?
Is your reading comprehension…THAT BAD??????

Your comment: “…for Arkansas “demanding” that the Big 12 cough up more money…” WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ????

Again, let me copy/paste E-X-A-C-T-L-Y what I wrote:

“If the BIg12 wants Arkansas, they will HAVE to see to it that Arkansas earns at least $17Million.”

The point was the Big12 was going to have to come up
with a way to pay Ark at least $17M or enough to lure them
away from the SEC.

As for Tom Landry, the man was a LEGEND in the NFL, in almost EVERY WAY.

There is a time for coaches/players, etc. to move on.

The WAY Jones handled that was disgusting, even to all the die-hard Cowboy fans. JOnes caught so much Hell for it that he later issued his long over-due apology you linked.

Even Bobby Cox is getting a season-long, end of career “tour” with the Braves this year. Jones screwed up badly on how he handled Tom Landry’s exit/retirement. Jones blew it, and only years later did he admit it and apologize.

Next time, try R-E-A-D-I-N-G.

Weston

May 11th, 2010
5:03 pm

Garth,
I think you need a geography lesson. Last time I checked Arkansas is in the Southeast. On top of that Arkansas is much more “southern” then Florida. I’ve lived in Arkansas all my life and trust me everyone here associates themselves with the south. Give me a break Florida has to be the least southern state of all the southern states. Geographically Florida obviously is southern but it hardly is culutrally except for the panhandle.

Weston

May 11th, 2010
5:15 pm

To all of you asking what Arkansas bring to the SEC let me hit you with some facts. Arkansas has won more national championships than any other SEC school. We have an elite baseball program, an up and coming football program, and a sleeping giant basketball program. I love football as much as any SEC fan but some of yall have forgot that football isnt the only sport played in the SEC.

Tide Rising

May 11th, 2010
5:24 pm

Weston,

I doubt that. Georgia has something crazy like 28 national championships in men’s golf alone, women’s gymnastics they have a bunch. Florida has a lot of championships also in a lot of different things like women’s softball, etc. Do you have a source for your info?

Weston

May 11th, 2010
5:30 pm

Wikipedia it has a table of all the SEC schools and how many NC’s they have won. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_SEC_national_champions

Weston

May 11th, 2010
5:32 pm

I know it shoes that LSU and Arkansas are tied with 42 but one of LSU’s is from Men’s boxing so quite frankly I dont think that should count.

Delbert D.

May 11th, 2010
5:57 pm

Weston – Wikipedia isn’t a comprehensive list. All National Poll Championships from all ranking sources can be found here:

http://collegefootball.procon.org

Click on the underlined text on the site “Princeton and Rutgers were declared the first national champions in 1869″ and download a 124 page PDF file of Football Bowl Subdivision Records through 2009.

Pages 78 – 115 contain all the poll info.

Delbert D.

May 11th, 2010
5:59 pm

weston – Sorry, the source I gave in the previous post is football only.

HeadHog

May 11th, 2010
6:02 pm

Arkansas gets $17.1 Million from the SEC. Plus, $5 Million from the Texas A&M game in Dallas every year.

Arkansas gets $22.1 Million from TV alone, Beat that any other conference.

Arkansas is South of the Mason-Dixon line. Plays in 2 stadiums Fayetteville and Little Rock.

Arkansas’ biggest rivals (Games Played in total) In this order.. Texas, Baylor, TexasA&M, Ole Miss and LSU. (BCS Conference Teams)

We have brought MANY National Championships to the SEC in multiple sports. We are annually in the College World Series.

#16 in Richest Football Program (Frobes.com). This will only increase, we have raised tickets prices in both LIttle Rock and Fayetteville. If we can at least get our basketball team decent again we climb higher.

Arkansas brings 3 Million TV sets to the SEC and its not divided up between States with schools in different Conferences.

Everyone else just wants Arkansas’ spot, Sorry buddy, *Smiles and gives a one finger hello* :-) ~

Cattleman

May 11th, 2010
6:02 pm

Steerpower, huh. I don’t think you know what a steer is.

Weston

May 11th, 2010
6:03 pm

Exactly my point isnt about who’s won the most football national championships its about who has the most NC’s from all sports.

WizardofhOgZ

May 11th, 2010
6:15 pm

T3:

1) You may have “specifically stated” that Jerry Jones “might like the idea of having Arkansas in the Big 12″ . . .but that’s far from all you said. That one small excerpt totally downplays your obvious obsession with the man. You also went on to write:

“Jones is a MULI-BILLIONAIRE. If Jones really wants Arkansas to leave the SEC, then Arkansas will leave. Period.”

“If joins wants Arkansas in the Big12, then he will likely see to it that Big12 revenue-sharing arrangements are changed so that Arkansas doesn’t get short shrift.”

“Jerry Jones is OBVIOUSLY not in charge of the decision-making for Arkansas, but, he has LOTS & LOTS & LOTS OF MONEY with which to “influence” this consideration. If he really wanted Arkansas to move, he will bring a “significant” degree of influence to the decision process. What if Jerry Jones just CHOSE to write a VERY VERY LARGE check to the University of Arkansas? U of Arkansas administration would PROBABLY “carefully’ evaluate the POSSIBILITY of going to the Big12.”

“You dont think an alum cant have THAT kind of influence. Just look at Bobby Lowder and his alma mater, Auburn. BTW, Lowder has millions. Jones has BILLIONS.”

By the way – you also write in your most recent response to me “But, if Jones DOES have an interest in the idea, then it wouldn’t come as a surprise if he wanted to add his influence to the idea. Doesn’t guarantee anything.” However, in the quotes I provided (from your prior posts in THIS thread), you stated “If Jones really wants Arkansas to leave the SEC, then Arkansas will leave. Period.”

So – which is it? No reading comprehension problem on my end; you, however, seem to be contradicting yourself.

2) Let’s go back to this comment you made about Jones:

“If joins wants Arkansas in the Big12, then he (J Jones) will likely see to it that Big12 revenue-sharing arrangements are changed so that Arkansas doesn’t get short shrift.”

Again, with your conspiracy theories about Jones and Arkansas, you CLEARLY imply here that if Arkansas wants to join the Big 12, then Jones (in Arkansas’ behalf) can “snap his fingers” and make it happen.

This is YOUR theory – not mine.

3) Again, you simply show (easy for YOU) that you fail to grasp the reality of the situation regarding Landry’s termination.

First – NO ONE said he wasn’t a legend. But he was also past his time and need to either (a) retire (preferably) or (b) be terminated. I lived in Dallas at that time, and still do; and I can assure you that many of the long-time Dallas fans that grumbled about this at the time (many of which still do) were outspoken in their desire for him to step down or be fired during the 1987 and – in particular – the 1988 season. This was every-day water cooler talk in Dallas.

When it went down, the local media performed a hatchet job on this “Arkie” who had come in and “stolen” their prize jewel. It affects simple minds – like yours – to this day. But rational, objective people (like myself) saw then EXACTLY what I see now. That Jones WELL-INTENTIONED efforts to do it the RIGHT way were shamelessly portrayed as something other than what they were by a pandering local media who chose to channel the anger and sadness of the local fans instead of uphold their journalistic duty to tell the story honestly. It is one of the most shameful episodes of lynch-mob journalism that I have witnessed in recent years.

How anyone can read the article I linked (in the prior post) and see that Jones was guilty of anything other than following poor advice (from nationally renowned professionals int he PR field) is beyond me. Of course, it would have made life easier for everyone if Landry hadn’t been a stubborn old fool who didn’t know that it was 2 years past time for him to resign with grace and receive all the accolades and celebration he certainly had earned. And don’t be fooled – Landry purposely made it hard for Jones to locate and terminate him rather than fall on his sword gracefully, as someone like a Jimmy Johnson would have had the smarts and savvy to do in a similar situation.

No – you’re just full of hate and Jones is a convenient target. Fools like you rarely see beyond what the media spoon feeds you.

Believe what you want. As for me – the truth is good enough.

4) Finally . . . you have still to explain what that diatribe about Broyles playing at Georgia Tech and then turning down their coaching job . . . . yada, yada . . . was all about. By ignoring the question, you imply that we’ve forgotten you blathered on ad nauseam about this.

We haven’t. Please explain yourself.

kgator79

May 11th, 2010
6:46 pm

If Arkansas was so great in so many sports with all these so called national titles then why is it every year its Florida who walks away with the SEC All Sports trophy (19 out of 20 years now) and Arkansas is never even close?

Delbert D.

May 11th, 2010
7:00 pm

HeadHog – “Arkansas brings 3 Million TV sets to the SEC and its not divided up between States with schools in different Conferences.”

I’m not trying to take a shot at you, but where does the 3 million TV sets number come from? The 2009 census lists the population as 2.889 million. Is part of the TV sets number from viewers in Texas?

HeadHog

May 11th, 2010
7:23 pm

Delbert D,

I’m also including the 102,000 illegal Aliens that live in Arkansas. U.S. Immigration predicts Arkansas to over 3.0 Million in 2011. We also broadcast all games in Spanish. There has been a massive Immigration, not accurately counted, according to the U.S. Immigration website about Arkansas since 2005.

Arkansas’ biggest Alumni base is in Dallas.
LSU’s biggest Alumni base is in Houston.

With the new ESPN deal many SEC games will now be broadcast in Texas which will help the SEC because of Arkansas and LSU.

The Texas TV rating numbers are not yet determined since this is the 2nd year of the new ESPN/CBS contract.

Tide Rising

May 11th, 2010
7:34 pm

Wizardofhogz,

I’ll be sure not to tick you off. You’re making my head spin with the voluminous calling out of T3.

Kgator79,

I kinda thought the same thing. I know Florida wins a lot of titles in all these other things like women’s sports especially and the all sports trophy so I couldn’t fathom how Ark would have more titles.

Steerpower,

Lou Gossett says only 2 things come from Texas. Steers and queers. Which one are you? I doubt if you have horns. Sorry but I just couldn’t resist.

Bamaninark

May 11th, 2010
7:48 pm

The SEC is already BY FAR the best conference in college football. Arkansas would be foolish to even consider leaving that league unless it just wants to have an easier time in the Big 12.

HeadHog

May 11th, 2010
7:58 pm

Kgator79,

Read my friend

As of May 9, 2010. Championship History of Division 1 Men’s

NCAA website
http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/stats/champs_records_book/summaries/Men.pdf

1. USC 76
2. UCLA 71
3. Standford 60
4. Okie State 48
5. Arkansas 43* With 2 National Titles removed from Track.

Not Listed: Florida 12. :-)

Arkansas has more titles than any SEC team and it isn’t even close. We are only talking about Men’s here gentlemen.

Weston

May 11th, 2010
8:00 pm

Great read Head Hog. The facts dont lie people just look at the numbers.

Delbert D.

May 11th, 2010
8:02 pm

The exact nature of what it takes to become a steer is not a subject for polite dinner table conversation.

T3

May 11th, 2010
8:03 pm

Wizard:

I respect the passion. Kudos on the “handle.”

However, I dont have a “Hawg” in this fight.

The #1 point is this: the POSSIBILITY of Arkansas moving to
the Big 12 CAN NOT be overlooked, as TB so casually dismisses.

If the Big12 loses Nebraska and/or Mizzou, then the Big12 is gonna go shopping for at least two new members.

The MOST LIKELY candidates are:
Arkansas, Houston, UTEP, BYU, UTAH, NewMex, NexMexSt.
SMU and TCU are possible, but very likely due their smaller school size.

As I stated, I’m no fan of Jerry Jones…AT ALL,
so I’m no Jones “homer.” Didnt read the ESPN article.
Only know how it was portrayed back then.
Gotta consider that was in Tx,
while I was getting the “news” here in Atlanta.

The point on Jones is this: He has BILLIONS at his personal disposal.
Just like T.Boone Pickens. Jones can “buy” just about ANYTHING he wants.

If Jones SERIOULSY wanted Arkansas to move to the Big12,
then he has ALL the means to get the outcome he wants.

Then the question becomes, how much “persuasion” would it take:

1) what amount of money will it take and/or
2) how many “political” or “monetary” favors would need to be paid.

Afterall, Jones persuaded the State of Texas
to finance $1+Billion for “Jerry World.”

If Jones offered the U-Ark administration a $50 Million cash donation, to move to the Big12, the U-Ark administration is probably gonna give the idea SERIOUS consideration.

A $100 Million donation would practically guarantee a move,
regardless of how much Ark earns from the SEC or Big12.

What if Jones offered a big donation directly to the
Big12 Conference organization?

I also think that Jones would do just about whatever it took to “persuade” the Big12 to make the Big12 revenue-sharing a bit more “equitable.” I just wouldnt under-estimate his influence.

Overall, if Jones SERIOUSLY wanted Ark to move,
he will PROBABLY get his way. He has ALL the means
to get what he wants. Period.

Ark staying in the SEC is NOT as big of
a “given” as TB would have readers believe.

As for Broyles, it pisses me off when the self-appointed
“Mr. College Football’ doesnt do service to the greats of college football.

No one in the younger generation(s), and few folks east of Little Rock have ever heard of Frank Broyles. Broyles was “home-grown” product from here in Atlanta, a great man, and a “household name” here in Atlanta for 30+ years.

And yet, TB…as a bonified UGA-SEC “Super homer” doesnt even bother to mention to that. Broyles was a “giant” here in Atlanta LONG before he arrived at Ark. As TB flatters Broyles for being a great guy in relation to his roles at Ark, no mention how big big his stature was here in Atlanta. TB only mentions Broyles for the shallow purpose of “vaildating” the SEC as Gods gift to the South. If Broyles had grown an UGA man, TB would have given us his resume.

Sports fans here in Atlanta deserve BETTER from the
self-appointed “Mr. College Football.”

The Big12 is gonna go shopping.
A BILLIONAIRE Arkansas alum owns the Dallas Cowboys and “partially”
owns the “grandest” football stadium in teh country.

Like I said, TB is stupid to think that Arkansas might not be “in play.”

Delbert D.

May 11th, 2010
8:15 pm

T3 – According to Fortune Magazine, his net worth is “only” 1.3 billion. It gets him in the Top 500 in the U.S.

I Wholly agree with your last sentence. Tony Barnhart’s blog post on the subject is highly perjorative, to the point that he is telling his readers that we are to dumb to understand it.

Weston

May 11th, 2010
8:20 pm

T3,
We are not going anywhere! We dont want the Big 12 and why would we when we are in the best conference in America. Yes, Jerry Jones is a proud alum of Arkansas but you act as if he’s pulling all the strings in Fayetteville. I’m sure Jerry being the sharp guy he is would realize were right where we need to be. He has got us playing in Dallas for 9 more years against A&M and I wouldnt be suprised if by the time that contract ends that we dont have another one in place. So he has his wish with us playing in Dallas and benefitting from the added exposure in Texas that everyone understands is vital to the success of the Arkansas athletic program. I’m a student at the Uof A and we are over run with students from Texas and thats without us having any real ties to the state other than the series with A&M. We dont need the Big 12 to be a factor in Texas, we have enough alumni and current students at Arkansas to prove that. Arkansas is not going to settle for less money, playing midwest teams like kansas and iowa state, and giving up our membership in the strongest conference in the nation. Those who think so are dillusional. We are not big enough a school or in a populous enough state or region for that matter to give up all the incentives the SEC provides. College athletics is about one thing and that is MONEY. Even if Jerry Jones gave us $100 million to go the Big 12 its not gonna happen because in the long run we will still earn more in the SEC. The Big 12 is a sinking ship why would anyone wanted to jump on board? Especially a school that is benefitting from the best contract in collegiate sports (ESPN/SEC Deal). I could go on and on about the reasons why we arent going anywhere but its not worth it. Everyone can keep on speculating all they want but it aint gonna happen just wait and see.

[...] Football, Tony Barnhart, strongly believes that Arkansas will remain in the SEC. Today, on the AJC.com website, he discusses why he believes that [...]

T3

May 11th, 2010
8:44 pm

One last note for Jones & Arkansas.

Jones played on the undefeated 1964 Arkansas team that won a National Championship by beating Nebraska.

Anyone want to guess WHERE that game was played? Hmmmm ??

Right. At the “Cotton Bowl Classic”……in Dallas.

Does ANYONE ELSE believe that Jerry Jones would just L-O-V-E to see
his Hawgs play in the new/upcoming BCS-level Cotton Bowl whose new home is “Jerry World?”

And Barnhart doesnt think Arkansas is “in play?”

Pfff ?! What a joke.

tx pete

May 11th, 2010
8:48 pm

the big12 is a sinkng ship? what an idiot.

the big question is what will the big-12
do if neb & mizz bolt for the big-10.

their gonna have to add somebody.

Weston

May 11th, 2010
8:49 pm

t3,
Your a joke. Look at the facts dude and use your brain. Honestly if you were an Arkansas fan would you want to go to the Big 12 or even deem it fathomable?

Weston

May 11th, 2010
8:50 pm

Yes its a sinking ship. Your about to lose your 3rd biggest asset which is Nebraska. Who are you gonna replace Nebraska and Missouri with? I guarantee you its no one that has the benefits of those two schools

T3

May 11th, 2010
8:55 pm

For those who DONT think Arkansas in “in play” for a POSSIBLE move to teh Big12, please offer up YOUR suggesiton on what YOU think the Big12’s next move will be.

And, BTW, forget Tx/TxAM going to the SEC. NE-VER gonna happen.

So lets hear it…what will the Big12 do next?

T3

May 11th, 2010
8:57 pm

BTW Weston…it’s YOU’RE (YOU ARE)…not YOUR.

Study harder.

Weston

May 11th, 2010
8:58 pm

You have to understand that the Big 12 will no doubt go after Arkansas but just because they come after us doesnt mean were going. Of course if they lose Missouri and Nebraska then Arkansas will be their #1 priority but that doesnt mean we are going anywhere. Get that through your head.

Weston

May 11th, 2010
9:00 pm

t3,
Who cares this is a comments page on a website dont think I’m getting graded for my grammar. Nice try though.

Tide Rising

May 11th, 2010
9:20 pm

T3,

I appreciate your spirited debate but it looks like its time to throw in the towel on this one.

I believe every single hog fan that has posted today has been in favor of staying in the sec. Heck why wouldn’t they? They make a lot more money in the sec than they ever would in the big 12 and that disparity is about to grow even wider with Neb and Mizzou bolting to the big 10.

You’ve mentioned Jerry Jones several times. He is a businessman and as a successful businessman he especially would want the hogs in the sec making gobs more money than in a weakened big 12.

Last of all, you just wrote that Texas and Tam would never ever go to the sec. Hogwash I say! In the link that someone pasted earlier Finebaum had a conversation with Texas AD Deloss Dodds who flat out said Texas wanted to join the sec after Ark bolted. The only holdup was that the sec did not want Tam and so the Texas legislature held things up because they insisted that the sec take both. But it is a fact of life that Texas wanted to go and Dodds flat out confirmed it.

As it stands today the SEC would absolutely offer both Texas and Tam and if so there is no reason why they wouldn’t come especially now that we know Texas wanted to come years back. Its either the Pac 10 or the SEC and everyone knows the SEC is a much more profitable conference and a better fit for the 2 schools.

Bottom line is that the idea of Ark going to an ever weakening big 12 for ever less money is ludicrous. The idea that Texas and Tam would come to the SEC is 100 times more realistic than the idea of Ark going to the big 12. They are going to the pac 10 or the sec one or the other if the big 10 expands to 16 teams. The smart money says they come to the sec.

GO HEELS

May 11th, 2010
9:21 pm

I would love to see Texas in the SEC then that will allow TCU to join the BIG 12 and they should invite Boise State as well….

Arkansas shouldnt leave and allow Florida State to join SEC and the ACC will take SC… I think Spurrier wants to be back on top of the coaching world and joining the ACC will be up the big break he needs…

Weston

May 11th, 2010
9:31 pm

Tide Rising,
Thanks for coming in and breaking the chain of dillusional comments by t3. You made some great points and I too really think its a possibility of Texas and the Aggies coming to the SEC. It would be great for my Hogs and would only solidify the status the SEC has as the best conference in America without question.

WizardohOgZ

May 11th, 2010
9:36 pm

T3 . . .

I had admonished you when I felt it was appropriate, and I will now give you props for finally (IMHO) posting a non-inflammatory, non-insulting and coherent response to the questions I posed to you in my last post. Whether that is a result of my admonition, or you finally figured out that the only way I was going to relent was for you to listen and answer my post directly, I give you credit for so doing.

That said, I want to clarify something. When I say you’re “obsessed” with Jerry Jones, in no way should it be interpreted that I said you like (or, for that matter, dislike) him. The “obsession” has to do with your consistent assumption that Jones is passionate about Arkansas moving to the Big 12. In your first response to my post earlier in this thread, you went out of your way to point out that you said “if” he was . . . but I went on to post several other comments you had made about him and your assumptive position that he strongly favors the move. And, in fact, MOST of your arguments about the possibility of Arkansas moving to the Big 12 is BASED on this assumption.

I have no doubt that whatever Jones sets him mind to, he makes a big impact in any such situation. But I have NO reason . . . NO reason . . . to think Jones would prefer Arkansas to be in the Big 12 – and I’m a LOT closer to Jones than you are. Sure, like anyone he reminisces about the games his teams played against Texas and the Aggies. But you probably don’t know that there were some very meaningful games against SMU, Rice and TCU as well in those days. Note that there is no pressure from Jones for the Hogs to join the conferences of those teams either.

Jones is – first and foremost – a super bright businessman. He knows full well what being in the SEC means to Arkansas, and he knows the value of the A&M series in Arlington (by the way, the series is set for 10 years, with a 20 year option after that; so I don’t think it will move in our lifetime) – both in terms of revenue and recruiting access. But, if I had to bet, I’d put my money on him voting to stay in the SEC if he were asked and responded on the record. That’s the truth.

If “the move” possible? Sure – anything’s possible (Note that I never said it wasn’t . . . that was others). But I’d put the realistic chance at about 5-10%, and that’s being generous.

Let me ask you this; if the revenue situation is so poor for schools NOT named Texas that Missouri is looking for greener pastures, what makes you think it’s so attractive for Arkansas? Answer – it’s not. Arkansas proactively looked for a conference to get away from Texas’ bullying revenue sharing situation, and they found it. I can’t see a scenario where they’ willingly go back to that sort of scenario. And I know Texas is NOT willing to give up what they have.

Result – NO move to the Big 12.

T3

May 11th, 2010
9:44 pm

Tide Rising

May 11th, 2010
10:01 pm

T3,

I have to admit that now you have me completely bewildered.

Your last post says this is why Tex and Tam would never join the sec. Well, I read the article and it never mentions anything about the sec and never mentions any reasons why they would not join the sec. It simply talks about the possibility of a Tex. Tam merger with the pac 10. And then to top it all off it says in the last paragraph that this is something that will not happen. Not now anyway.

In no way, shape, or form does the article lay out reasons for them not joining the sec. If you somehow construe an article that talks about the remote possibility of Tex and Tam joining the Pac 10 as being a total rejection of a possible sec overture then I would have to say that is one bizarre rationalization. I’m totally perplexed as to how you arrive at the idea of Tex and Tam never joining the sec based on this article by one ho hum reporter who is just voicing an opinion.

Furthermore I just read in a different article that Texas had also discussed with the Pac 10 the idea of joining in the 90s. Know who nixed that idea? Stanford did. Turns out private schools like Stanford are very protective of a football factory like Texas coming into their league. Call it politics, envy, or whatever but its clear Stanford doesn’t want Texas in.

robert

May 11th, 2010
10:18 pm

I’m an Arkansas fan and I completely agree with Tony. The one thing I’d add is that there’s also the risk of switching from the nation’s premier conference to one that may fold someday, despite that Arkansas switched. That’s a deal breaker and perhaps even bigger than the money issue. Part of the reason Arkansas is in the SEC today is because the SWC was falling apart and I don’t think we want to be in that situation again.

If not for those reasons, I wouldn’t mind moving to the Big-XII. The SEC is wealthier and more exciting, but the Big-XII is where we belong geographically and culturally. I also think the Big-XII wouldn’t treat us like a red-headed stepchild, as the SEC has always done. But because the SEC is such a great conference, made up of great members, it is easily the best option and I don’t think we’re going anywhere soon.

T3

May 11th, 2010
10:26 pm

Pac10 & Big12 are not talking a conference MERGER.

They’re discussing combining their TV Marketing efforts.

A HUGE TV contract covering the Pac10 and Big12…and really just about EVEWRYTHING West of teh Mississippi might be worth much mor ethan teh SEC pays.

So, I dont see Tx & TxAM considering a switch to the SEC as many have suggested.

So far, no one has offered up ANY options on how the Big12 is gonna fill the holes left by Nebraska and/or Mizzou.

robert

May 11th, 2010
10:38 pm

Btw, where did this idea that Jerry Jones was to move Arkansas to the Big-XII come from? And of course Arkansas played Nebraska in the Cotton Bowl! The SWC champion always played it’s bowl game in the Cotton Bowl, so what? As for Nebraska, that was the only meeting between the two schools and I’m sure many SEC schools have played the Cornhuskers more than that.

$100 million isn’t going to make us switch to the Big-XII either. Throw in another zero and then you might have something, but staying in the SEC is worth a lot more than $100m to Arkansas. The most amusing thing about all of this is how media, all around the nation, is talking as if this is a real possibility, even though no one in Arkansas believes that it is or that it should be. There are fans — myself included — that like the idea from afar, but not after taking a long look at how disastrous it could be. Even if we could make the same as we are currently are in the SEC, it might still be a disastrous move. Why is this so difficult to understand?

Weston

May 11th, 2010
10:38 pm

Robert,
You think we fit in culturally with Kansas, Iowa, Nebraska etc? I find that hard to believe.

WizardohOgZ

May 11th, 2010
10:39 pm

T3 wrote “So far, no one has offered up ANY options on how the Big12 is gonna fill the holes left by Nebraska and/or Mizzou.”

Consider the possibility that they may not. There is a scenario where Texas, A&M, Mizzou, Nebraska, OU, Oklahoma State and Colorado (Pac 10) all go elsewhere. In that case, it’s a matter of the remainder of the conference basically fending for themselves and the conference disbanding.

It could happen – to use your argument “you can’t say there is no way it could happen”.

Alphare

May 11th, 2010
10:50 pm

SEC treat Arkansas like a red-headed stepchild? where does that come from? Houston Nutts beat Florida in the swamp just 2 years ago and the rest of SEC except Florida fell completely in love with Arkansas. Just ask Georgia fans about it.

Arkansas will give LSU or BAMA some heartache this year.

Doesn’t Arkansas get better recruits as a result of being part of SEC?

robert

May 11th, 2010
10:50 pm

Weston, I was thinking more Missouri (my birthplace), Oklahoma and Texas, but I do think we have more in common with Iowa, Kansas and Nebraska than Florida, Kentucky and Georgia. I also think that we consider ourselves a lot more Southern than we did before we joined the SEC. We were a charter member of the SWC, along with Texas, Oklahoma.and OSU, We probably could have left the SWC for the SEC when it was formed, but we waited 60 years to join the SEC and then only because the SWC was falling apart.

Beast from the East

May 11th, 2010
10:57 pm

Like I said earlier today, I think Arkansas fits in well with the SEC. I think I can speak for the majority of UF fans in saying that we have the utmost respect for their teams. Very competetive, passionate fan base, great AD and good facilities. I can’t belive that someone thinks they are treated as the “red-headed stepchild”.

robert

May 11th, 2010
11:02 pm

Alphare, don’t take it personally, because everyone treats Arkansas as a red-headed stepchild. We’re always underdogs, which I think is great. Some of it also comes from us not having the history with other conference members that most have and there’s also the fact that our football program hasn’t been great since we’ve been a member, so we haven’t done anything to garner respect yet.

As Houston Nutt, he did beat Florida, but it was with Ole Miss and not Arkansas. Although he had several chances, he couldn’t do it at Arkansas, although Petrino hasn’t, yet, either.

Whether we recruit better is debatable, but I’m of the opinion that we recruited better in the SWC. Most of our recruits still come out of Texas — we’re similar to Oklahoma in that way — but now we can’t offer them the opportunity to play in front of their family and friends, as we once could. Texas players grow up watching Big-XII football and they mostly sign with Big-XII schools, but many Arkansas fans think we have some mythical advantage by offering them the opportunity to play in the SEC, which takes them to LSU first, when true. The only other SEC state where we’ve recruited well would be Louisiana and Florida, but I wouldn’t say that we’ve fared better than most SEC schools in those states.

robert

May 11th, 2010
11:06 pm

Thank you for the kind words Beast! Maybe I spoke too soon, but it does seem that way some times. I don’t want to get into it right now, but I will say that I don’t think it’s been intentional. Some of it is because we were always the second most respected team in the SWC, so finding ourselves in the middle-to-lower end of the SEC pack has taken some adjusting.

Alphare

May 11th, 2010
11:08 pm

Sorry, my bad, it’s after Nutt moved to Ole Miss. I have a habit to identify Nutt with Arkansas.

T3

May 11th, 2010
11:18 pm

Wizard:

Agreed. Big12 could choose to go to 10, and form the Pac10/Big12(10) TV “alliance” that has been dicussed. Both conferences would end up playing the other 9 in each conference, and then play a “championship” game of some sort.

This idea is being openly discussed by Big12 boss Dan Beebe and Pac10 boss alliance Larry Scott. BTW, Larry Scott’s new right-hand man is Kevin Weiberg, THE GUY who set-up the Big10 Network.

Such a “network combination” would generate HUGE revenue for affiliated teams.

T3

May 11th, 2010
11:20 pm

Let me clarify that.

The Pac10 currently plays a round robin style with every team playing all of the other 9 temas in the Pac10. A Big12/10 would likely do the same thing.

HeadHog

May 11th, 2010
11:51 pm

Robert,

You are a Yankee transplant, move back above the Line. You obviously have never been all over the state of Arkansas. You are so off base it isn’t even funny. You have ZERO Idea about Arkansas’ history and the culture it has.

Can you even Read the US Census map?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_map-The_South_Modern_.png

However, you are entitled to your opinion even if its moronic.

Weston

May 11th, 2010
11:55 pm

I totally agree Head Hog. We have nothing in common with the Midwest. We are southern and always will be. Robert go back to Missouri if you think we arent southern.

robert

May 12th, 2010
12:26 am

Thanks for the support, guys, but I’ve been in Arkansas for almost 40 years and think I know it pretty well. Let me also clarify that I never said that Arkansas is not a Southern state, so stop making fools out of yourselves by pretending that I did.

robert

May 12th, 2010
12:34 am

Btw, I’m trying to understand what set off the undeserved criticism and I can only guess it had something to do with saying that we have more in common with Iowa and Nebraska than Florida. After thinking about it further, I think I was wrong, but we certainly have more in common with Texas, Oklahoma and Missouri than we do with Florida or Kentucky. We are considerably closer to Big-XII schools than we are to SEC schools and that’s a fact you can’t deny. If you still want to argue that point, then go study a map.

Golden Rules

May 12th, 2010
2:06 am

If the ACC and the SEC are concerned over the money that the Big(Boring 10) could bring in with expansion then instead of pillaging other conferences the two need to work together to secure a GIANT TV deal. Simply look at the success of the Chick-f-la Bowl and the Kickoff Classic. Both of the games are huge because they bring together the natural geographic rivalries of the two conferences. If the two conferences could develop popular head to head match ups on a weekly basis with that match-up game being played in primetime on national TV the dollars could be HUGE. Not to mention the standard games played every Saturday afternoon. Plus it would allow the individual conferences to retain the current identity and not force them into the seedy world of trying to rape other conferences for schools that they may not particularly want to add anyway.. When it is all said and done the South will always have the majority of the best college football teams in the nation…take advantage of this and render the BIG (Boring) impotent by joining together.

[...] Mr. College Football tells us why Arkansas will not leave the SEC: When you are trying to guess what school will land where if there is expansion upheaval, remember that these decisions made on the basis of money. Also remember that the SEC andthe Big Ten are the big financial dogs in this game. Arkansas is not going to jump off the SEC train for less money in the Big 12. And they would get less money. [...]

HeadHog

May 12th, 2010
4:54 am

Robert,

Read the Ancestries Map from the 2000 Census. Notice all the Southern States are exactly the same. Arkansas is nothing like 1 state you mentioned above, Link below. I hate to prove you wrong, end of discussion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries-by-County.svg

Fayetteville is closer to Big 12 schools but the Vast Majority of Razorback fans are much closer to SEC Schools. Also, Little Rock (War Memorial) is closer to the SEC schools. Do you need a Demographic and MSA map for that also?

Hey it’s not our fault after the Civil War, when the South Lost, we had no control over reconstruction money and the University of Arkansas, NOT the University of Northwest Arkansas, was placed in Fayetteville instead of a Central location for the entire state.

Ever wonder why the South Tower, Old Main, was supposed to be Taller than the North tower but when the Yankees learned of this they built it backwards as it stands today. If you were ever a freshmen at UofA you would’ve known this fact during orientation.

Even if the Big 12 and Pac-10 do a Network together, replicating the Big 10 Network, it will still fall short of what Arkansas makes yearly in the SEC. Would you like numbers for that also?

GEEZ

May 12th, 2010
12:16 pm

you know if you inbreds who walk around beating your chest about how great and tough the SEC is, you may want to think about kicking out the following: Ole Miss, Miss St, Vandy, Ky(even though they beat UGA) and I would raise a serious eyebrow to SC. Also, what the he!! has happened to TN and Auburn? Your conference presently SUX but yet you all seem to think it is a step above all others..make it more attractive if you want others to join it

[...] “Mr. College Football” himself, Tony Barnhart, dedicated his column to the subject of why the Hogs won’t leave the SEC. His logic is simple (SEC = way more money) and makes sense, but that hasn’t stopped people [...]

Where are you really from?

May 12th, 2010
1:10 pm

robert-

Give me a break- Arkansas is in the SOUTH. Culturally more aligned with Iowa & Nebraska than a southern state? You’re crazy. As a lifelong resident of Arkansas, I live one mile from the Missouri border, 25 miles from Oklahoma and less than 50 miles from Kansas. I’ve been to Kansas once in 20 years and avoid Oklahoma at all costs. We have nothing in common with Missouri. Did you see there fans at the Cotton Bowl? It was like an Ivy League school. Have you ever seen a Hog tailgate party? It looks like ‘Bama, Georgia, Tenn, Auburn, etc. That’s crazy…

GO HEELS

May 12th, 2010
2:16 pm

WELL SEC FANS….. ACC comissoner John Swofford stated this morning that all 12 Teams in the ACC have no plans in leaving the ACC…. So looks like you guys will have to head West to try and gain more teams….. LMAO….

Razorhog

May 12th, 2010
2:35 pm

What about picking up Luoisville?? Not for football, but for basketball. Plus it gives Kentucky a consistent/competitive in conference rivalry. We all know that the SEC ( save Kentucky) needs to catch back up in basketball.

robert

May 12th, 2010
4:32 pm

HeadHog, even though I still disagree with you, this discussion has become tiring and I don’t really care to drag it out any longer, but I will note that you’re wrong about War Memorial Stadium. I don’t know why you would use a MSA map, but if it gives you the mileage between the campuses, then do yourself a favor and add them up, because even War Memorial is far closer to Big-XII schools than those of the SEC.

Anyone else who thinks that I’m a “Yankee”, that I wish Arkansas would move to the Big-XII or who wants to pretend that I don’t think that Arkansas is a Southern state, needs to take a reading comprehension class, because those things only exist in that incompetent thing that’s sitting atop your shoulders.

Weston

May 12th, 2010
6:08 pm

Dude you said we were more culturally aligned with Nebraska and Iowa. That is saying Arkansas is not southern without actually saying it. I dont know what state youve been living in these last 40 years but it sure isnt the Arkansas we all know and love.

Weston

May 12th, 2010
6:24 pm

You also referenced we were not as much aligned with states like Kentucky and Georgia. Kentucky? Really? Its borderline not even in the south and is has a much weaker southern heritage than Arkansas. That statement alone proves you have no idea what you are talking about. I rest my case.

HeadHog

May 12th, 2010
6:32 pm

Robert,

WRONG!

You do realize there is a HUGE bridge in West Helena, Arkansas and you don’t drive to Memphis to get to Oxford or Starkville. My Cousins live in Dothan, AL, I happen to know the fastest route, with less miles, throughout all the Southeast. Plus, my father owned a trucking company when I was young.

Another Map for you, Little Rock to Oxford, Ms.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=little+Rock,+ar&daddr=34.415973,-90.477905+to:oxford,+ms&geocode=FXEwEgIdxcV_-imbVh-hNKHShzEXW_MNEPUFNA%3B%3BFR9kDAIdcAuq-inZoafwb3uAiDEdr9syMpvkdg&hl=en&mra=dpe&mrcr=0&mrsp=1&sz=8&via=1&sll=34.741612,-90.906372&sspn=2.784858,4.855957&ie=UTF8&z=8

From Little Rock, Ark

SEC
1. University of Arkansas 190 Miles
2. Ole Miss 199 Miles
3. Miss State 297 Miles
4. Vandy 342 Miles
5. Baton Rouge 349 Miles
6. Alabama 363 Miles

Big 12
1. Okie State 344 Miles
2. OU 352 Miles
3. Mizzou 376 Miles
4. Texas A&M 412 MIles
5. Kansas 454 Miles
6. Texas 512 Miles

You sir, need to learn how milage works.

Until the Majority of the Arkansas population moves, onto the Oklahoma border, and the Big 12 makes an offer, bigger than the SEC, it will never happen. Good luck with your losing fight.

TonyG

May 12th, 2010
7:09 pm

Arkansas’s athletic director has already said there is no interest in the Big 12. Most of this is being started by people not associated with the Arkansas program. As far as being competitive Arkansas has been to the SEC championship 3 times. Ole Miss (0) Miss ST (0) Vandy (0) SC (0) Kentucky (0) I may have missed somebody else with zero. We also have a National Championship in basketball and are always competitive in baseball. To the Bama guys that are trashing the hogs we have been very competitive with you with the exception of the last two years (go look at the record). So I’m trying to understand the arrogance and the dismissal of a proud and historically prominent top 25 program ( again look at the top 25 all time programs Arkansas is in it (fact)

Bill

May 13th, 2010
11:04 pm

Don’t think Texas is an AAU school. Something the SEC doesn’t care about, but the Big 10 does. Means the SEC would look to Texas , Tex A&M, Ok and Ok St. With Colorado being eyed by the Pac 10 and Mo and Nebr by the Big 10, think it’s the Big 12 that is in worse shape than anyone as far as survival. Leaves Kan, Kan St, Ia St, Tx Tech and Baylor looking at joining a conference. Maybe the old Southwest gets revived to an extent with TCU, Houston and Rice rejoining those schools….The ACC may not lose any schools, but better get a contract with a major network FAST!!

Bigpete

May 14th, 2010
1:58 pm

Best idea floated was the west of the Mississippi TV domination concept… our pool turned out this conference

Big 12 – Pac 10 merger (many holes but fun to think about)

Soutwest

Texas
Texas Tech
Texas A&M
Kansas
Baylor (for other sports)
Okla St.
Oklahoma
Colorado

West

USC
CAL
UCLA
Oregon
Washington
Stanford
Arizona
Arizona St.

TV money would be big (lay it out)

AJD

May 14th, 2010
5:14 pm

The rivalries figure people have cited are interesting but irrelevant. Unless we have a Big 12 with 7-8 members in the South and 4-5 in the North, Arkansas would be going to the Big 12 North. Assume that Iowa State, Colorado, Kansas, and Kansas State stay. Arkansas has played them a total of once since 1926: Iowa State in 1973. They did play Air Force, another possible replacement, once in 1975 but has never played BYU or Utah.

On the other hand, they couldn’t play Texas every year. While they would play them sporadically, it isn’t like they haven’t done that now (4 games since 1999 with one cancellation for last year). And they would have to cancel the series with Texas A&M that they currently have.

However Boise State might be added to round out the Big 12 North with Arkansas if Colorado and Utah both join the Pac ten. Arkansas did play Boise State twice recently, 2000 and 2002. I guess that settles it. Give up $75 million over the next decade (Jeff Long’s estimate) and the A&M series while playing Texas as many times as we normally would so we can save the Arkansas-Boise rivalry.

TexReb

May 17th, 2010
6:18 pm

Not without my Baylor! — Ann Richards

PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE LET US BACK IN

May 20th, 2010
10:04 am

Please allow us back in the SEC.

Ghost of Bobby Dodd.

josh collins

May 20th, 2010
11:03 pm

I would like to say that Arkansas is a perfect fit for the SEC. I am 30 years old and I started watching the hogs around the last two seasons they were in the SWC. I remember the excitement it brought to the state playing teams like Ole miss, LSU, Alabama, and others was like playing in a bowl game. hog fans were more excited about playing those teams. Arkansas has only been in the SEC for about 20 years now and they really havent established themselves as a traditional SEC team. Arkansas has a lot of business to take care of in this conference. if they left the conference today it would be a downfall for Arkansas and the SEC

josh collins

May 20th, 2010
11:09 pm

I think that georgia tech should rejoin the SEC I also would like to see Memphis join the SEC why dont they offer those teams to join

josh collins

May 20th, 2010
11:26 pm

Arkansas is on the cusp of being a true SEC power why would they want to jump out of the SEC that wouldnt be a good idea

josh collins

May 20th, 2010
11:38 pm

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