ACC needs an expansion plan–right now

If, for argument’s sake, the SEC takes four from the ACC, then which teams are most likely to move from the Big East to the ACC? Or are we talking about a different set of schools altogether?

What’s your best guess, Tony?

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I like it the way it is…..I’M afraid if the SEC expands, Dawgs would lose some every year games to rotation like Auburn, Tenn. etc…….I would hate that…..I hate that money is ruining the game.

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I don’t understand why the Big 10 would want to expand to 16 teams. That would be 5 more teams to split the same pot of money. So, those 5 new teams would have to generate that much more money, and the Big 10 would have to get new TV contracts worth enough to just keep what they have now. Also, unless the BCS changes, the Big 10 would only be able to get a maximum of 2 teams in each year, and that money would be divided 16 ways instead of 11. I just don’t get it. I get why they would want to have 12 teams – to have divisions and conference championship game, but 16??

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They play football in the ACC?

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You people (Mostly UGA Fans) can’t see 5 feet past you much less a few years in to the future. This is setting up for a playoff and there will be no BCS to worry about.

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Wow this sounds like 2004 when all the SEC pundits said that the ACC would never get a bigger contract after expansion. In fact many predicted ESPN would downgrade the tv deal — that didn’t happen. ESPN doubled the contract and the ACC landed the most lucritive basketball contract in the country later that year. As recently as 2006/07 the ACC was paying out more to its members than the SEC. That has changed with the SEC’s new deal of course…

Tony I don’t think there are any teams in the ACC that will leave for the SEC. Slive’s a big talker and bluffer and wants to appear to have a position of strength in the face of Big 10 talks. Football dollars be darned, the fact is athletics make up such a SMALL part of the budget for these schools. Research money dwarfs the television deals. The ACC wants to be a player in football, but not at the expense of admission standards or academic clout. Georgia Tech conducted $500 million in research last year (compare to UGA’s $200 million). Compare that even to the ‘massive’ dollars that the SEC getting per member for athletics — what 15 – 20 million? I think the ACC presidents have their priorities right.

The ACC will get a deal. It wont be the biggest, but it will reflect the conference’s basketball strengths as well as growing football presence. The conference is more stable than the big 12 and big east, who appear to be the main targets of the Big Teen.

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If the ACC would proactively add Pitt, Syracuse, WVU and UConn, they would solidify BC’s membership (now have a northeastern rival(s)) and add value in football (Pitt, WVU w/rivalry) and solidify basketball as the clearly the best conference (Pitt, WVU, Syracuse and UConn are all SOLID programs). The northeastern footprint would bring in allot of TV dollars for an ACC Network.

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Tony, it’s only logical that if there are four SuperConferences, it will be the Big XII, and not the ACC, that dissolves. If the Big Ten expands to 16 teams, Mizzou and Nebraska are almost certainly gone. If the SEC expands, they’ll almost certainly make a play for Texas and A&M. With those two gone, the Big XII is no longer viable. The Kansas and Oklahoma schools would make the only play they have left: joining the Pac 10. Even if the ACC loses, say, FSU and Clemson, it will replace them with the Big East’s leftovers: WVU, South Florida, etc. Maybe Notre Dame would even join if they foolishly spurn the Big Ten. The ACC would be weakened, but by no means irrelevant. It’s the Big XII that should really be worried, for the simple reason that they are landlocked and in a sparsely populated region. If Texas goes, the whole pile of cards falls.

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The ACC is on the defensive as they now have the least bargaining power of the BCS football conferences. My guess is they no choice but to be reactive to what the B10 and SEC do. After they lose FSU, Clemson and one other school (GT or Miami), they’ll pick up the remains of the BE conference WVU, Louisville, USF, maybe Rutgers and add ECU

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The ACC is the poor little basketball conference that’s 10-11 vs. the SEC in football head-to-head over the past two seasons.

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Well, this is one of those RARE occassions that I agreee with TB.

Its musical chairs, and the ACC & Big East are vulnerable.

No way in Hell Texas & TxAM joins the SEC.

Right now, Tx, TxAM, OK, OKSt OWN the Big 12 “cash register.” Theyre not gonna relenquish that to ANYBODY for ANY REASON. Period. End of Story.

Mizzou & Nebraska going to the Big10 seems like a highly probable outcome. That would mean adding at least 1 more or 3 more.
Which: 1 or 3? Perhaps Iowa State wins the Big 10 lottery
for the last spot.

A website called “Frank the Tank” has a very good analysis of possibile Big 10 outcomes includung the idea of an alliance between Pac10 and Big12.

If Nebraska and Mizzou move to Big10, the Big12 would be down to 10 teams. The idea is that the Pac10 and the Big12/10 would be an alliance of 20 teams. Kind of a new “Great Western” conference, with Pac10 & Big12/10 “divisions” all playing a round-robin basis. Not really a bad idea at all, b/c all teams would play every other team in their “division.”

The fate of the ACC& Big East relies solely on Notre Dame.

If ND DOES NOT go to the Big10, then Big10 could look to force ND’s hand and push for 16 teams by raiding the Big East, forcing ND to abandon theie Big East alliance.

If ND DOES move to the Big10, then Big10 expansion likely stops at 14, with the addition of Nebraska, Mizzou, and ND.

SEC could choose to add FSU, Clemson, GT, TCU, SMU, Houston, or Louisville. Miami seems a very unlikely candidate. Dont overlook NCSt as a long shot possibility.

Big East & ACC better say a “Hail Mary” that ND goes to the Big10.

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Can’t ignore the facts, ACC attendance numbers, are down down down….

2005 the ACC Championship Game drew over 72,000 fans.

Fast forward to 2008, only 27,360 fans bothered to show up.

Big jump in 2009, all the way to 42,815 fans.

Most schools draw more than that for a regular season tune-up game against a 1-AA school.

TB is right, the ACC needs to do something, quickly.

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XPatHeel, UGA would let GT in, it opens up an OOC game and with expansion on the horizon and the longer conf schedules that most likely come with it, may make an extra OOC date even more of an advantage. UF and FSU would be much the same.

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Tony says the ACC conference championship game has been a “mixed bag”. What does that mean, with attendance and the TV audience ranging from bad to horrible? Has there ever been a really meaningful or memorable ACC championship game?

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If the Big Ten expands to 16 teams they would almost have to go to 2 divisions and add a conference championship. That opens up the question of where it’s played and who goes into which division. There’s also the question of what happens to conference rivalries and the academics of the conference will be an issue as well if they expand. That’s a lot of change to absorb in one or two years. I see them expanding but not to 16 teams.

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[...] the ACC starts its meetings today, so they need to figure out what their plan is. The ACC did get a good initial TV contract from expansion but that contract ends after the [...]

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T3, Colorado has been very open to a move to the PAC10 and at that point the Big12 is down to 9 with the 3 historically strongest football powers in the Big12 North gone. Yes the Big12 could add Boise St, TCU etc but CFB is tradition and those teams don’t bring TV ratings.

If ND moves to the Big10 expansion maybe over, more than 12 is a risk and ND is a big TV draw. The Big10 would have their money, tradition, and academic standards.

ExPat, UNC maybe back to a top 25 team but that will most likely only last as long as the coach stays, just like Mack Brown. However I do agree the ACC will be back. FSU and Miami have been in the middle of NCAA investigations, scandals, coaching changes etc. The programs have suffered as a result. I think with the current coaching staffs in place both teams will be back in BCS bowls in the near future.

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When the acc produces on the field results, I will give the acc the props it deserves. The sec can have a subpar year on the field and still be a better conference. The fact that you brag about preseason rankings in May just proves how pathetic of a league you are in football.

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HEY JASON, if the SEC is such a great football conference, why are they only 11/10 against the ACC over the past 2 seasons. Don’t think that percentage is so great.

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I don’t think it will come to the the ACC losing teams to the SEC because the SEC will not expand.

The Big 10 wants to get their network into the most households nationwide. They do this by forcing the Big East’s hand on Notre Dame. I expect they will offer three Big East teams to join the conference. The Big East, of which Notre Dame is a member in all sports except football, will go to Notre Dame and ask them to bail them out. Notre Dame will decline. The Big East will then tell Notre Dame to get out of the conference completely. But Notre Dame needs a conference for sports like women’s field hocket, etc. The Big 10 will offer Notre Dame membership, retract the offers to the other Big East schools, and Notre Dame will become a member of the Big 10.

This gets the Big 10 into households nationwide because, even though Notre Dame carries very little cache in the south, it’s really the only school they care about in the northeast. Done and done…

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Yes,if the Big 10 went to 16 teams the pie would have to be cut into more pieces.That is not the issue.The issue boils down to how big is the pie? If the Big 10 added some of the heavily populated TV markets in the northeast,the pie would be bigger when those TV contracts are negotiated.

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Georgia needs to head over to the ACC, they got a better shot at a conference title and a BCS Title berth over there then where they are now. 41-17

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T3 the best way for Jerry to get his Hawgs to play in his new stadium regularly would be OOC matchups with Texas or Texas A&M.

If Texas sees 3 teams leave the Big12 North for the Big10 and another for the PAC10 they maybe ready to take a big check from the SEC.

If Iowa St leaves as you say, and Texas and Tx A&M leave for the SEC, OU is left without a chair when the music stops.

The Big12 maybe talking with the PAC10 as a way to prevent the PAC10 from signing Colorado.

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Bulldog59, part of the issue is that you get only two weeks or so to plan to go to a conference championship game whereas for a bowl you get a month to plan. Also, most people are off from work between Christmas and New Year’s so it’s easier to get there. But it’s tough to get time off from work in early December because everyone is trying to get their stuff done.

But your point is well taken.

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Makes my head spin, Tony. “Alliance” between the Pac-10 and Big 12? Now it sounds like a Monopoly-style board game. Let’s not add games & not extend the season. Let’s stick with strong regional conferences and make teams and conferences ‘earn’ their attention every Saturday between the two end-zones. ‘Nuff said.

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kgator, Agreed the TV ratings are in the crapper and going up against a SEC or Big 12 title game that will likely decide who will play in the BCS title game does not help.

If FSU, Miami, VT etc are in hunt for the BCS title game the ratings will go up.

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Charlie Bama, far to late for that, CFB is big business. The ideal thing is for ND to jump to the Big 10 and for the PAC10 to take 2 teams.

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Tony = Chicken Little- Where did you get your research funding numbers? According to the National Science Foundations ratings, Ga Tech received $440m in research funding last year, UGA $323m. Obviously, Tech gets more, but at nowhere near the spread ($500m/200m) you made up out of the blue.

Also, there are 3 SEC schools in the NSF’s top 50, compared to 4 ACC schools. Not that much of a discrepancy.

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Otto –Agree. PAC should expand and ND needs to take the plunge. This Big-10 to 16 is overboard, I think.

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Kgator, I am not taking anything personally. I think there may be cultural reasons why the game has struggled but I also think the site has been unstable. I think if the conference settles on Charlotte, it will be better attended. Also, there have been several years when the Big XII game was not sold out.

If the Big XII settles on playing the game at Jerry World in Dallas, then I expect it will be an annual sellout like the SEC in Atlanta.

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Tony, everything you’re saying makes sense. However, if I may digress…

Unlikely as it is, I wouldn’t mind all of this — the mergers and TV deals for huge money eventually blowing up in the conferences’ faces. It might be 15-20 years, it might be never, but something is wrong with the system in my eyes.

Conferences cater to themselves, professing to be about “the student athlete” — all while building up their own coffers and shamelessly pimping out the athletic abilities of 18-22 year olds. It’s true the athletes get benefits. Recognition, [fleeting] fame, and a scholarship. But let’s not fool ourselves. The conferences do what they do mainly for the benefit of people employed by the conferences, not for the athletes who come through the school.

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Otto

I disagree. What Jerry WANTS, Jerry GETS.

Just dont see Tx, TxAM, OK, OKSt voluntarily turnnig over the keys to the “cash regsiter” to ANYONE, when they already OWN the Big 12’s “cash regsiter.”

If, Neb, Mizz, and IST all move to Big 10, then a Pac10-Big12/10 “alliance” would only require the “Big-9″ to add one team.
The VERY FIRST phone call will go to Arkansas.

Any other phone call will likely go to another “Southwest conference” team, like SMU, Houston, or perhaps a Texas-based team like UTEP or TCU.

I would sooner look for Big 12 to add Houston, UTEP, SMU, TCU, Utah, BYU, NewMex, or NewMexSt before joining the SEC.

Big12 has something NO OTHER conference has:
ENDLESS SUPPLY OF “OIL” MONEY.

Big 10 “ultimaltey” cant compete with that when Michigan, Ohio, Illinois, Pennsylvania are all either CURRENTLY bankrupt,
or very soon will be.

SEC cant either. Even SEC cant compete with OIL MONEY when an
EVER-RISING number of SEC fans in SEC states are unemployed.

With states of California & Arizona “circling the drain,”
Pac10 is gonna suffer basdly when their universities are beset by big econmic problems.

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MMA is stupid
They play football in the ACC?

6 ACC teams on Tony’s pre pre season top 25. NC, GT, VT, FSU, Miami, and Clemson…I would say that’s playing football…more than any other conference. MMA is stupid and that’s a stupid question.

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I like it the way it is now, SEC and ACC…..Clemson adds NOTHING to the SEC in terms of TV market…they don’t even need to be discussed due to that fact.

I’m not sure Miami adds anything in Florida in TV market…I see FSU as being more of a player than Miami…that said, FSU had their chance and chose the ACC years ago…Bowden liked his chances there…who knows if he was right?

And to the blabbering poster talking about 11-10 SEC/ACC record…I’m not sure how that is even relates in regards to $$$$….that is what this is about.

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If it goes to four mega conferences check this, SEC/ACC, Big East/MAC/C-USA, Big 10/12, PAC/MWC/WAC.

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Please tel me how the Little Ten adding teams from the Big East is gonna add to the Little Ten’s already dimishing credibility on the field. Big East teams are not gonna keep the Little Ten from getting smacked around by the Pac Ten and SEC.

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Tony, since you worked at the News & Record I would figure you’d have a better understanding of how the ACC works. Rest assured, Swofford and the powers that be do not have their head in the sand. But like one of the early posters stated, you can’t seem to understand that there’a a bigger picture here — no matter what shakes out, the powers that be at ACC schools will not comprimise their collective mission.

Even before their next bit of TV dealmaking, the ACC remains the third-richest league among the major conferences, so the financial incentive to leave is not as large as it is for members of other leagues. If the Big Ten expands to 16 and the SEC decides to do the same, many believe the SEC will come after Clemson, Florida State or other ACC schools. But at this point it’s extremely speculative to say which schools would be targets, and it’s also fair to say that Clemson and FSU — like every other ACC school — have many decision-makers who would prefer to remain ACC members.

It baffles me that you and some of the more challenged SEC fans cannot grasp that overall “institutional” picture

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Tony,
This expansion talk is a bluff that is coming from the Big 10, in their hopes to woo Notre Dame or another suitor and become a 12 team league. There aren’t going to be any 16 team superleagues and Texas ain’t going to the Big 10. The media needs to shut up about it and quit being Chicken Little.

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Dan and KGator79, most likely, all of the reasons you 2 listed factor in to the low attendance. KG’s SEC passion argument has definite merit, and logistics, timing etc. pull some folks away too.

Let’s see what the move to Charlotte does for attendance. BC and Miami are the only ones that could claim a travel hardship in this scenario.

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“The landscape of college football has changed dramatically since the ACC last expanded.”

no, actually, it hasn’t.

and the big ten adding missouri, nebraska and pitt or some other big east team won’t affect the acc in the slightest.

and so far, the most intelligent-sounding comments have been by “Tony = Chicken Little?” and “XpatHeel”

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Don’t let the facts get in the way of a good argument ACC. Below are dated numbers before the SEC’s TV package goes into effect. Website is http://www.bustersports.com/blog/buster-blog/2009/07/30/something-funny-happened-on-the-way-to-the-sec-dominating-all-financial-aspects-of-collegiate-sports/. The SEC and Big 10 control a whopping %50 of the TV generated revenue for college football. The ACC will have no say in this process. They will react to what the SEC and Big 10 do.

The Orlando Sentinel has posted the overall athletic department revenues of all 118 I-A colleges for 2007-2008. Being that college football is the big money generator incollege sports and being that the SEC OWNS YER ASS BRO I’M SO SERIOUS ESS EEE CEE SPEEEEEEEEED, it stands to reason that the top 10% of the list would be mainly populated by the SEC with a smattering of other big programs tossed in. Sentinel, lay it on us:
1st Texas $120,288,370 Big 12
2nd Ohio State $117,953,712 Big Ten
3rd Florida $106,030,895 Southeastern Conference
4th Michigan $99,027,105 Big Ten
5th Wisconsin $93,452,334 Big Ten
6th Penn State $91,570,233 Big Ten
7th Auburn $89,305,326 Southeastern Conference
8th Alabama $88,869,810 Southeastern Conference
9th Tennessee $88,719,798 Southeastern Conference
10th Oklahoma State $88,554,438 Big 12
11th Kansas $86,009,257 Big 12
12th Louisiana State $84,183,362 Southeastern Conference
13th Georgia $84,020,180 Southeastern Conference
14th Notre Dame $83,352,439 Independent
15th Iowa $81,148,310 Big Ten
16th Michigan State $77,738,746 Big Ten
17th Oklahoma $77,098,009 Big 12
18th Stanford $76,661,466 Pac-10
19th University of Southern California $76,409,919 Pac-10
20th Nebraska $75,492,884 Big 12

So the top 20 totals are six BXI teams, six in the SEC, five in the Big XII, two Pac-10 squads and Notre Dame.

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RDR…..The ACC is considered by most a basketball conference. But football is still king in the South. The trend in the ACC and around the country is that basketball is losing alot of their fan base. It is just not the exciting game it once was. ACC football as a result is getting stronger not weaker and as basketball declines in interest, football will grow even stronger and steal even more fans from the so called basketball conferences. The resulting rule changes from the NCAA and the “I could care less about the college basketball game” from the NBA is what has hurt basketball the most. I agree with Tony. ACC must be serious about its expansion plans. If they go to 14 teams add Pitt and WVA. If they go to 16 then add Rutgers and U Conn or mabe USF,

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Reptiles Rule offers up a good analogy about expansion. Alas, Reptiles Rule, I hope you’ll learn to love your watered down beer. I can see it now. We add a few more bowls so that even mid level teams from conference X gets to go bowling. Wait a sec…That’s already happening..! Let ‘em continue to screw up the game beyond recognition. We’ll still have backyard horseshoes and cow tipping.

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Randy….Foley has said he would block any attempt at Miami joining the SEC? Yeah ok! Provide a link to this made up info. Miami is a sinking ship. Their athletic department is broke. They are losing recruits to USF, FIU and FAU. The days of anyone fearing anything related to Miami are over. The rise of South Florida and programs like FIU and FAU has killed their program.

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Xpatheel….well thats even worse. Who is going to watch the ACC championship game at that time when they can watch the Big 12 title game at the same time?

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#1 GT Fan….no SEC school would ever be that dumb to leave the SEC for the ACC. We all recognize its about money and a move like that wouldnt make finacial sense for schools even at the level of a Vanderbilt

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What if the ACC could pull some basketball teams/avg football teams to the Acc? Teams like Vanderbilt, Missisippi St., Uconn, and maybe West Virginia. Vandy and Miss St. would have a better shot at a conference title in football and would add power to the ACC’s Basketball Conference. Uconn is a rising football program and it would be good to have all the Virginia Teams in the same conference. Just a thought.

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Losing Clemson, Florida St, Miami and Georgia Tech to the SEC….ouch. I guess what goes around….

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UGA – 2010 NATIONAL FOOTBALL CHAMPS!

GET READY FOLKS!

Richt’s got our boys ready with their eyes on the prize!

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I hate this crap, I wish the Southwest Conference was still around and Arkansas had stayed there. Vandy belongs in the ACC because of academics, trade them for FSU, Clemson or NC State.

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To the Real SugarHill Dawg–I agree we should be National Champs the next 6 years with all these “super” qbs we’re getting. I heard 3-4 teams are thinking about forfeiting to Richts dawgs instead of being run off the field by them. Go dawgs–get the trophies ready!!!!!

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If the Big 10 takes teams I would like to see the ACC take in this order (whomever is left). FOcus on Big East Schools.
1. UConn (huge upside with football, expands market in Northeast, and good sports all around)
2. Syracuse (name recognition, and big on hoops, and good fit in Northeast)
3. Pittsburgh (Quality school, strong football and basketball)
4. West Virginia (Great for sports though lousy for academics)
5. South Florida (replaces Miami and Florida St in market though not really on par)
6. Louisville (like athletics but not great geographic fit)
7. Cincinnati (see Louisville and not good academics)
8. Rutgers (won’t be there but you wouldn’t want them..they add nothing)

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2006 Sugar Bowl:
West Virginia 38 Georgia 35
2007 Gator Bowl:
West Virginia 38 Ga. Tech 35

Anyone else in Georgia we can play?

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16 NOT, no way Notre Dame goes to Big 10. They would not gain anything–being an Indepedent, no sharing of money, they are a sellout with whomever they play. Notre Dame,alone, makes more off football revenue than 3 of the big 10 schools combined.

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A team that no one seems to be talking about, but could affect the SEC is Kentucky. They may only represent an average football program, but a plum when looking at the basketball. Pittsburgh is a natural, already a rivalry of Penn State, but don’t forget West Virginia, also a rivalry of Pitt, but is close to Ohio State. That would bring the east up to speed, but wait they want a balance in the west. Look for the Big ?? to go after Missouri, Nebraska, maybe Iowa State for a western balance. In one accumulation of teams, the Big ?? could become the most prolific conference in the country. This would force the SEC to respond by going after Oklahoma and Texas, giving great strength to the west and maybe forcing Alabama into the east. Obviously they would look at a couple at FSU to give Florida competition (large stadium) in Florida. The ACC actually shrinks to 10 teams, cutting Boston College out of the fold and moving back to their strength basketball with Miami, VaTech, GaTech, and North Carolina carrying the football banner. They loose the playoff game, but not much else, excepted a guaranteed Major bowl (assuming an additional one won’t be created). The Big 12 is gone, but the remaining good teams will unite with BYU, TCU, Boise St. to form a block between the Big ?? and Pac 10, who has a guaranteed major the Rose Bowl has no reason to change, especially with no dominant basketball school.

If the ACC wants to expand and is looking the best candidates and can hold serve with the existing teams, look at a run to get West Virginia and Pitt which brings a balance between football and basketball.

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cattle dawg

May 10th, 2010
10:12 am
cattle dawg

May 10th, 2010
10:12 am
When the acc produces on the field results, I will give the acc the props it deserves. The sec can have a subpar year on the field and still be a better conference. The fact that you brag about preseason rankings in May just proves how pathetic of a league you are in football.

Unless you’re a dog fan then it’s ok (ie. 2008)

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If the Big 10 moves, then the Big 12 moves. If they move, watch and see how quickly Arkansas bolts for the new Big 16. If that happens, SEC has to get 5 teams, not 4. They would raid the ACC like the ACC raided the BIg East. Gone would be GT, FL St, the U, Clemson, and probably Carolina (because they would love to match up against Kentucky year in and out in basketball). You could look at UVA as well since they’ve played most of the SEC schools for years before conferences really took hold, but I don’t know if they’d want to break up that interstate rivalry again with VT.

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the ACC doesn’t need expansion, it needs replacements.

the Big East is low on teams especially with Rutgers, Syracuse, and others possibilities to go to the Big Ten. so… swap maybe North Carolina with West Virginia, or Boston College with Rutgers, perhaps Duke with USF, the Big East will crumble in a matter of years so why not play them out of a few decent teams instead, it could REALLY help the prestige of the conference. imagine Virginia Tech vs. West Virginia for the ACC Championship, I would watch it for the first time in about 4 years. and maybe then I would drop the A-She-She moniker

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What is the deal with every article or blog now that TB writes, he has to pay homage to The Drunk at the criminal tahd???????????? Good Lord!!! Enough already! You’re knees have GOT to be getting sore Tony boy.

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Tony – The 14 or 16 team super conferences will be a financial drag on each and every conference that engages in it; plus any semblance of winning a conference championship on the field goes out the window with 8 conference games in a 14 or 16 team league.

I still believe that this all is Delaney’s attempt to get Notre Dame to cave and join the Big Ten. For the Big Ten, SEC and all the major conferences, expanding beyond 12 teams can quickly become a financial drag, and all but end intersectional non-conference games……..

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Reebok, I love that idea. That would freak people out major if that were to happen. Can you imaging in basketball season, too? Or baseball? All the other conferences would crap their pants!

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Clemson and FSU would be welcome to the SEC – Clem to the East and FSU to he West. They’ve historically both been competative football schools with B’ball taking a back seat. The ACC can keep the rest of the schools which are primarily either non-competative at anything (NCS, MD, GT, WF) or basketball schools (UNC and Duke).

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Guaranteed–ALbama will win the National Championship for the next 27 years. I know no one’s ever done it before, but he’s that good folks.

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You people on here taking cracks at TB for what he wrote are morons! His job is write articles(blogs) to get people fired up to get on and par-take in the discussion. He does it on purpose good grief! Congrats, you fell for it as I did.
CFB is nothing but about money. If what is mentioned above then CFB will suffer immensely. The some of the ACC fans that think the ACC is better than the SEC in football, that is about as stupid as a SEC fan stating that the SEC is better than the ACC in basketball.
I’ve also read where people are making excuses for not selling out the ACC CG because of location. Sorry, that is a weak excuse. Maybe Charlotte will help, but I would bet that if the SEC CG was played at the Rose Bowl it would be a sell-out with all SEC fans from their school. The passion is just not there for the ACC fans in football as it is in the SEC. It’s that simple. The passion that you see during a Duke/UNC basketball game IS the same as any SEC football game, but that is the only comparison you have between the two leagues.

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Dave in Tampan. Execellent analogy, i.e., Duke UNC basketball is about as close as it gets to SEC football in terms of passion.

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GT Man you’re wrong. The Big East will not stand for another “raid” by another conference. They would much rather give up Notre Dame basketball than lose the conference all together. The Big Ten will initially go after Syracuse and Pitt in the Big East and either Nebraska or Missouri in the Big 12. That threat alone will result in the Big East dumping Notre Dame….and Notre Dame knows that once the Big Ten expansion hits, the domino effect will result in them having no choice BUT to join a conference….and no conference..not even the SEC makes more money than the Big Ten. Not even the holier-than-thou administrators are going to risk giving up that kind of money.

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All of this super conference expansion is dumb and bad for college football. Unfortunately it is going to happen with the useless Big 11 lashing out at everything that moves. Notre Dame is going to receive an ultimatum from the Big East by early June that they have to become a full member including football or loose thier basketball and other sports membership rights. That will force ND to join the Big 11 and give that conference 12 teams and the option of picking up Missouri and Nebraska. The Big East has a daunting, very timely and expensive clause that will prevent any current member from leaving for 3 years. That will make Pitt and Rutgers think twice from bolting and cap the Big 11 at 14 teams.

The ACC will come up with a better television deal than Tony envisions and placate FSU with a conference realignment that favors the Seminoles geographically. GT and Clemson will not leave the conference without FSU.

SEC members Mississippi, Mississippi State, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, and South Carolina will wake up and see that a super expansion will hurt their already slim competitive chances in football and work behind the scenes to torpedo Slive’s bluster.

The Pac 10 will add Utah, Colorado and BYU and the Big 12 will add TCU, and two other schools to keep 12 members.

It also wouldn’t surprise me to see the ACC go after South Carolina if they decide to expand.

This super conference idea sounds good on paper but it’s headed to the courtroom and only the attorney’s will enjoy the process. Remember the BIg East has already hired a super attorney who knows a thing or two about super conferences, Paul Tagliabue formerly of the NFL. See you all in court.

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Tomsjeep88 – Good Post. That’s definitely the main reason of the big discussion. Big Ten is just trying to get ND in their league. Trying to throw some weight behind it.

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check out the UGA classic tin lunchbox. Perfect for Fathers’s Day.

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Memphis?
Why not say Wafford? They bring about as much to the table. What does Memphis have to offer that would justify splitting the purse with them?

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The picture looks better for most conferences at 14 teams (the Big “10″ and PAC 10 have their own special thing going, anyway.) With 7 teams per division, that’s 6 games against all division opponents, and 3 from the other division. That makes the championship game relevant.

OOC games would be 3 instead of 4, but looking at the 2010 SEC and ACC schedules in detail over the last 2 days, at least 1 of the 4 is a “gimme” game, 2 for several teams, and 3 “gimme’s for a couple (Auburn in the SEC and UVA .)

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SEC fans are a bit insecure on here. ACC is a steady conference, but has not reached the SEC level, yet. It’s funny to read about the SEC not wanting to allow FSU, Clemson or GT in their conference, yet they talk about how good the football is in the SEC. Either of those 3 schools would easily knock out USCe, Vandy, Kentucky, Miss State, and Ole Miss even lower in their program status, and given considerable competition to the stronger SEC programs.
FSU = Free Shoe University? Wow. Originality has been lost for nearly a decade on that one. Try looking at UF, UT and UGA if you want to see schools with very serious off field incidents.

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HugoStiglitz

May 10th, 2010
12:37 pm

“West Virginia will never end up in the ACC or Big Ten because they are a Tier 3 school. Maybe the SEC will take them. They would be a pretty good fit there.”

Hugo,

I believe this tier 3 school has you call it has more bcs bowl game wins in the 2000s (2) then the entire acc (1) if I’m not mistaken. They’ve also had 3 11 win seasons in the 2000s which is more than any ACC team. They also made a final four appearance this year in basketball and did fairly well last year for such a tier 3 team.

If you believe that having more bcs bowl wins in the 2000s then your entire ACC conference put together makes West Virginia a tier 3 team than you have a mighty strange way of determining tier status. If we won the bcs title last year then what does that make us? 4th tier?

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This is all to get ND into the Big Ten. Nothing else. 14 teams would be too many. And ND will make more being in the Big Ten than staying independent.

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The Real SugarHillDawg,

Aaron Murray is the best qb in the country and might win the Heisman? Really? Judging by spring game stats in which about half the dawg fans thought Mett performed better its quite a leap to say Murray is the best qb in the country and may win the Heisman. Or that the dawgs will win the 2010 national title for that matter. Statements like that are the reason other fans call the dawg fans delusional. The kid is a freshman and has never played a down of college football yet you proclaim him the best qb in the country. Pass the kool aid please.

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Tide Rising,

Hugo was referring to WVU as a “tier 3″ school academically, not on the football field. Sure, there football is solid and they hace decent tradition, but academically, it’s a pretty woeful school.

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Tide Rising, when I said Tier 3 I was referring to academics. The national college rankings separate colleges into tiers with 1 being the highest. Every school in the ACC is a tier 1 school, with half of those ranked in the top 35. All of the Big Ten schools are also Tier 1 and they are all AAU members. Adding West Virginia to these conferences would be a bit of an academic stretch. The Big Ten will not even consider them. The ACC might if alot of their teams are taken and they need something to build back up with. But I really doubt it.

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Tide Rising @1:32PM
You obviously have no clue what Stiglitz means by a tier 3 school. It has nothing to do with athletic performance – it is about academics.
The ACC and Big 10 have zero tier 3 schools. The SEC has 2 – MSU and Ole Miss.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges

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Just for S&Gs here in the next few posts is the future of NCAA football, comment as you like;
(SEC)

Atlantic:
Boston College
Maryland
NC State
UNC
Virginia
Virginia Tech

Gulf:
Alabama
Auburn
Kentucky
Tennessee
Mississippi
Mississippi State

Coastal:
Clemson
Duke
Florida State
Miami
South Carolina
Wake Forest

Piedmont:
Arkansas
Florida
Georgia
Georgia Tech
LSU
Vanderbilt

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(Big America)Formerly the Big East

Northeast:
Army (Independent)
Connecticut
Navy (Independent)
Syracuse
Rutgers
Temple

Mountain:
Cincinnati
East Carolina
Louisville
Marshall
Villanova (Division II)
West Virginia

Lake Erie:
Central Michigan
East Michigan
Miami, Ohio
Ohio
Pitt
Toledo

Old South:
Central Florida
Rice
SMU
Southern Mississippi
South Florida
Tulane

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(PAC)

Pacific:
Hawaii
San Diego State
San Jose State
Stanford
UCLA
USC

Desert:
Arizona
Arizona State
New Mexico
New Mexico State
TCU
UNLV

Big Timber:
Boise State
Oregon
Oregon State
California
Washington
Washington State

Rocky Mountains:
Air Force
Brigham Young
Colorado State
Nevada
Utah
Wyoming

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Serious question: Why would any conference, let alone the powerful and mighty SEC, ever contemplate adding NC State as a member institution? Name a sport in which they excel. When talking expansion, you need to add ascools that either increase your footprint geographically or strengthen what you already have. Ideally, you would want both. NC State does neither. NC State is sort of a poor man’s South Carolina.

Here is a list of ACC schools worth considering for SEC membership before North Carolina St: Clemson, Florida St, GT, VT, VA, UNC, Miami, maybe even Maryland.

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Don’t let the facts get in the way of a good argument ACC. Below are dated numbers before the SEC’s TV package goes into effect. Website is http://www.bustersports.com/blog/buster-blog/2009/07/30/something-funny-happened-on-the-way-to-the-sec-dominating-all-financial-aspects-of-collegiate-sports/. The SEC and Big 10 control a whopping %50 of the TV generated revenue for college football. The ACC will have no say in this process. They will react to what the SEC and Big 10 do.

The Orlando Sentinel has posted the overall athletic department revenues of all 118 I-A colleges for 2007-2008. Being that college football is the big money generator incollege sports and being that the SEC OWNS YER ASS BRO I’M SO SERIOUS ESS EEE CEE SPEEEEEEEEED, it stands to reason that the top 10% of the list would be mainly populated by the SEC with a smattering of other big programs tossed in. Sentinel, lay it on us:
1st Texas $120,288,370 Big 12
2nd Ohio State $117,953,712 Big Ten
3rd Florida $106,030,895 Southeastern Conference
4th Michigan $99,027,105 Big Ten
5th Wisconsin $93,452,334 Big Ten
6th Penn State $91,570,233 Big Ten
7th Auburn $89,305,326 Southeastern Conference
8th Alabama $88,869,810 Southeastern Conference
9th Tennessee $88,719,798 Southeastern Conference
10th Oklahoma State $88,554,438 Big 12
11th Kansas $86,009,257 Big 12
12th Louisiana State $84,183,362 Southeastern Conference
13th Georgia $84,020,180 Southeastern Conference
14th Notre Dame $83,352,439 Independent
15th Iowa $81,148,310 Big Ten
16th Michigan State $77,738,746 Big Ten
17th Oklahoma $77,098,009 Big 12
18th Stanford $76,661,466 Pac-10
19th University of Southern California $76,409,919 Pac-10
20th Nebraska $75,492,884 Big 12

So the top 20 totals are six BXI teams, six in the SEC, five in the Big XII, two Pac-10 squads and Notre Dame.

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I see things shaking up a bit differently, The Big XII will swallow Arkansas and LSU. The Big 10 drops down and takes Kentucky and Tennessee. The ACC absorbs Vandy, Georgia,S. Carolina and Florida. That means Bama, Auburn, Ole Miss and Miss. State are sort of left out and cut deals with Conference USA.
So long SEC, you were a heckuva conference!

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OB-1 – Just started on the “SEC” list.

1) LSU is in a Gulf state
2) UNC & Duke are abut 10 miles apart
3) FSU is pretty close to the Gulf
4) Clemson and SC are in the Piedmont area along with Ga. & Ga. Tech

Interesting concept for super-super regional conferences, though. Anything to get a playoff.

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ACC needs to expand to try and catch up to the SEC. But it won’t help. The SEC has the most money, best coaches, and the best talent.

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jumbeauxtiger – Yeah, that is a pretty tough schedule for Miami. If I start getting a lot of flak (or more intelligent) comments, I’ll post the two lists in full.

By the way, I had Georgia with 3rd most difficult in the SEC, and Ga. Tech with the 7th most difficult in the ACC.

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Here is my plan for the ACC. West Virginia and Syracuse get invited for all sports making the ACC a 14 team conference for football. Villanova and Georgetown get invited for basketball making the ACC a 16 team basketball conference. 14 teams for football makes it easier to schedule in the fall. 16 teams for basketball make the ACC the best conference during that season.

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gtech was a charter member of the sec and still owns more sec titles than 1/2 of the current members; put ‘em back in. clemson has been jonesing to be sec since before i was born (YEARS ago) – they’ll jump given an invite. fsu has been an sec school in the wrong conference for years – ask bobby bowden, who wanted to be at alabama so badly he would’ve burned fsu down if that was a stipulation for the bama job. the fourth pick? eh, either miami or ncst. miami looks better nationally as an addition, but ncst would open up recruiting in the state of nc and further up the coast, especially for basketball. either way, the acc’s remaining should merge with the big east. or ten. or 12. who cares at that point really?

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Where is the ACC, if you just look at football you might ask that, but if you follow ANY other you will find them everywhere. Ever hear of the Sears Trophy? If not look it up. Basketball – mens/womens, Baseball, Softball, Lacrosse – mens/womens, Tennis – mens/womens, Golf – mens/womens, Rowing – womens, Soccer – mens/womens, Diving/Swimming – mens/womens, need I go on.

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ACC………
the best Basketball Conference…..
with the most National Champs…..
.will not be pushed around by the Big 10.

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No school in the SEC is leaving, OB-1. They have that huge TV contract so unless John Swofford has compromising pictures of the president of ABC, we won’t be able to touch the SEC. Those are just the facts.

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Oh yeah, and the other names for the super-region conferences: I suggest Best Western instead of PAC, and also Big MAC.

Just kidding.

Need Great Plains as a region or conference or something. Both James A. Michener and John McPhee have written great books about the great plains.

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Tide Rising, WVU would not be a fit in the ACC or Big 10/11. Both of these conferences pride themselves in the academia/research area. The SEC does have a couple Tier 3 schools. I did a little research on this and took the top 10 colleges from each and found the ACC had the highest average. With the Big 10/11 having the highest ranked in Northwestern. It would surprise you to know that even Miami was higher than most SEC schools. FSU being the lowest at 102 of 121.

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If the SEC expands, what exactly are they looking for in added teams? Just football? When the ACC was looking to expand, they needed more football teams. I know you all will think I’m crazy, but why not go after North Carolina. They are a great academic school and are respected in all sports. Football is not there yet when compared to the SEC, but the university has committed to improving UNC football. When you look at the Sears Cup every year, UNC is up there every year. As far as nc state…a big bwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

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Delbert D. I like the Big MAC Conference with the cheeseburgerlar as the mascot. lol

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RDR & Flash – “Word on the street is South Carolina, Tennessee, Vandy, Auburn & Alabama have been contacted about joining the ACC, however it will take some juggling of schedules to accomadate the moves”

That just shows that Radakovich and Mal Moore are moving proactively toward it. Boy, are they brilliant.

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The above #’s are men’s athletic department revenue #’s for that year. Either way there is no ACC school to be found. Harvard has the most university revenue at well over 1 billion. THIS IS ATHLETIC BUDGETS ONLY! All the revenue that all men’s sports generated. No SEC schools is going to leave the SEC when they are getting well over 18 million from the football TV package alone, and you can’t just kick a team out of a conference without a hefty lawsuit. Vandy gets 18 million to go 0-8 every year. Why would they leave. UNC may generate money from basketball sales nationwide but just do the math. UNC has a 60,000 seat stadium and a 22,000 seat arena for BB. As good as their BB team is the football team still generates more money for the university athletic budget.

The point of expansion is the TV CONTRACT! The SEC pays out over 18 million per school and the Big 10 as mediocre as they are in football pay out over 22 million per school for their TV CONTRACT! The ACC and Big 12 pay out barely over 10 million per school. Do the math. Texas can compensate by generating revenue with nationwide sales, but still then 8-12 million is still 8-12 million.

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academics won’t play a role here. the ncaa will lose control if “super conferences” are formed, and the standards are pretty low now – see ky’s basketball gpa’s this year. it’s all about the dollars. dan (2:55) is correct – no team is leaving the sec, especially programs that have losing records year after year but can share on the huge revenue earned by the other sec schools that do play in bcs bowls. (no offense meant to acc fans, but i can already hear the jokes about tennessee leaving the sec for the acc!) the acc simply doesn’t make, nor share, the bcs and network money the sec does…

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May be y’all know, but when discussing the dollars shelled out by the conferences to the schools, do they include bowl payouts too – i.e. the SEC pays out roughly $17M per school but does that include all the money from bowls?

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Florida doesnt want Florida State in the SEC? uh ok. UF already beats up on them annually with only one close game against UF by FSU since Meyer as been there with the rest being blowouts. Lets not forget though, it was FSU who was afraid to join the SEC back in the early 90s. They join the SEC they probably dont win their national titles.

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“Vandy gets 18 million to go 0-8 every year. Why would they leave”

Some wealth VU philanthropist might entice them to move to the ACC.

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Oh great, just what we need….. too big to fail football conference’s.

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Big East Basketball is built around the Catholic Schools.

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Tide Rising, there are some great schools in the Big East which is why the Big 10 will probably grab some of them. Notre Dame isnt really a Big East school but obviously they are the biggest candidate. Syracuse, Rutgers, and Pitt are all also probable candidates to go to the Big 10. WV is not. They are not going to accept a Tier 3, non AAU member in their conference. Its just not going to happen. Call it snobbery if you want, its not going to change things. The ACC I was more speculating on but I honestly dont think they would take WV unless they had to after being picked apart from other conferences.

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The 17 million per year is for TV CONTRACTS ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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OB-1 you are confusing general university budgets with athletic budgets. Other than a token gift from the AD to the general fund, the two do not go on the same accounting ledger. Expansion is about athletic budgets and TV contracts, and the Big 10 and SEC lead in both. It has nothing to do with how good your team is on the field directly but how many eyes are watching the TV sets.

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I think tech BBall brings in $55 million alone in revenue.

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Joe Schad just reported on College Football Live that the Big Ten made offers to Nebraska, Missouri, Notre Dame and Rutgers. Interesting. And where is Mr. College Football? Playing golf or cribbage or something not related to this breaking story.

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Does anyone else know if the SEC’s TV contracts with ESPN and CBS have a clause that allow the deals to be renegotiated if the conference expands? It seems to me there would be such a clause in place.

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Tide Rising – “…No one will dispute that Syracuse, Georgetown and Notre Dame especially are fine academic institutions. Villanova, Marquette are good schools as well and I believe that Providence, St. John’s, and Seton Hall are also good if not great schools. DePaul I’m not sure about. Pulic universitites in the conference such as Uconn and Rutgers I imagine are decent schools.”

Villanova and Providence weren’t on USN&RP National Universities list. DePaul, St. Johns and Seton Hall are NR (not ranked.)

Here are rankings that address some of your post (Big Ten):

Marquette #84
Georgetown #23
Notre Dame #20

Big Ten private universities
Northwestern #12
Purdue #61

Big Ten public universities
Michigan #27
Illinois #39
Wisconsin #39
Penn St. #47
Ohio St. #53
Minnesota #61
Indiana #71
Mich St. #71
Iowa #71

Others for comparison
UVA #17
UNC #28
BC #34
Ga. Tech #35
Florida #47
Texas #47
U Miami #50
Syracuse #58
Clemson #61
Va. Tech #71
Auburn #88
Alabama #96
Nebraska #96
FSU #102
So. Carolina #110
Arkansas, KY, LSU 128

(all below 128 are Tier 3 or Tier 4)
Oklahoma #102

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Why is it you can make the SEC meetings, but cant make the ACC meetings? Just sayin…

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They only need 1, once at 12, they are eligible for a conference championship game.

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Tide Rising – “Tide Rising – “…No one will dispute that Syracuse, Georgetown and Notre Dame especially are fine academic institutions.”

Darn. After all that, I left stuff out:

West Virginia Tier 3
Rutgers #66
Georgia #58
Nebraska #96
Missouri #102
Memphis Tier 4

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Madison . Well how about that! I was born in Madison 64 years ago. I suggest the ACC start whopping butt on the football field.

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Start with North Carolina on the first weekend.

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dagnabit – Morgan County had some great football teams under Coach Bill Corry.

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jumbeauxtiger – No, I don’t know that. I vaguely remember their rankings being higher in the past, though. There may be archives on the USN&WR site…

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Delbert D,

Interesting stuff on the rankings. They fall kind of line where I thought they would, especially the big 10 with Michigan being tops and Wisconsin 2nd. Didn’t realize Illinois would be that high.

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Buzzed, you think Tech bball makes $55 million. How? They can’t even sell out that little bandbox they have for conference games. Not a chance.

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QB-1 and Hugo Stiglitz,

After looking at the rankings posted by Delbert D. I’m certainly seeing your point. What I’m not getting is why the big east schools, especially the basketball schools, ignored academics in allowing WVU into the fold while the big 10 and acc evidently will not.

In any event there certainly is a clear academic separation between the big 10 and acc schools and WVU so I can certainly see why they would not want WVU in their respective conferences. Sucks for WVU not just that they can’t get it but also because they have had some lengthy and historic rivalries with some teams in both conferences: a long rivalry with Penn State and Pitt, rivalries with MD, VT, etc. Sucks for the mountaineers.

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GT will move to the Big East so they can have 10 wins every year and compete for the Big East Championship.

The ACC is tired of watching Tech have an empty stadium every game except against UGA.

They are a disgrace to the conference and really should move to Division II

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I wonder what Alabama would do if they had to play at Duke. That is not a home-and-home deal, is it?

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What are the odds that ND joins? Bet you could lay a bet on it in Vegas. I’d probably say 9-1 odds they won’t.

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Grant Field was larger than Sanford Stadium in the early 1960’s. Tech didn’t have problems filling it and expanded it again while they were in the SEC. I went to a few games between 1961 and 1967, when they had the horrible cold granite seats in the horseshoe. I went to several games at Sanford Stadium between 1959 – 1963, when they had the wooden “splinter” seats for $1 admission. Quite a few empty seats in the pre-Dooley era. That changed pretty quickly. Then I left the state for 13 years, and in 1980 when I came back, *everything* was different.

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Road Scholar – 3 words: “Non-revenue sports.”

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Delbert D.,

I hope and think the Duke series is a home and home.

Saban has been recruiting the North Carolina/ Virginia area with some success. We got 3 high profile recruits from that area last year- Phillip Sims 5 star qb out of Virginia, Alfy Hill a big time 4 star def end out of north carolina I think, and Kuandjio a 4 star off tackle out of Maryland whose brother is a 5 star offensive tackle this year and the no. 1 rated offensive tackle in at least one service. We have the inside track on landing him as well. There may be a 4th but I know that’s 3 very high profile recruits out of that area that we landed. Going back just gives us that much more exposure to cherry pick 3-4 very high profile recruits year in and year out in that region.

Also, we got some history with Duke whose Wade Stadium is named after Wallace Wade one of our national championship winning coaches who we have a statue of outside Bryant-Denny.

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Tide Rising – Good; the Dookies will sell out that game for sure. I had forgotten about Wallace Wade and ‘Bama. Dodd always used to mention him whenever Tech played Duke. Plus, it’s always good when a high-profile SEC team visits an ACC school that’s off the regular schedule. Sounds like Saban is covering the recruiting bases really well.

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I believe the SEC will ask either Florida State,Miami or both to join…..possibly Georgia Tech and Clemson…what do you think??

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Hopefully not Tech

We don’t need a program that can’t fill a highschool stadium.

Clemson and FSU would be good, Miami doesn’t have fan support like the JOKE NEXT TO COKE but they would bring good recruits to the SEC

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SEC Wins – I could see the presidents of Vanderbilt, Georgia, Auburn, Tennessee and probably Alabama voting for Tech and Clemson, since they would be somewhat academic upgrades for the conference as a whole. So would Miami, but I can’t imagine those four, nor Florida voting in Miami.

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Small – Ain’t gonna happen. Obama is going to elevate everybody to middle class. The neighborhoods around 10th and North Avenue will improve due to everybody’s generous tax contributions. Unfortunately, that means I will have to sell my home in the suburbs and move to a trailer in Lumpkin County.

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When are we supposed to start calling the President “Dear Leader” like ol’ Kim Jong-il?

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Dunwoodyheel – Maybe that’s why MIT and CalTech don’t have football teams. They would be distractions.

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LSU, Arkansas and Kentucky shouldn’t have a problem with FSU, since they wouldn’t be shown up too much academically, although they are right on the edge of dropping to Tier 3. They are within competitive improvement range of FSU. Ole Miss and Miss. State would be highly insulted about any other non-tier 3 school being admitted to the conference. Pushes them further back in the cotton field.

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DeMatha is over near Silver Spring inside the beltway. I’m not familiar with that area. I lived in Gaithersburg and worked in Rockville, which is NW of there outside the beltway. DeMatha has produced a lot of talent in football and basketball.

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Small Johnson,

Contrary to popular belief Miami can’t fill a stadium either. I used to live in Miami and the canes would draw anywhere from 40,000 to 60,000 tops but usually in the 50,000 range unless UF or FSU came to town.

I’m guessing a lot more people would watch if it were the television print the sec were looking to add but the bottom line to me is that a small private school like UM doesn’t add that much to the sec except in terms of academics. Miami only has an enrollment of 15k. Also, most of that population down there is transient, 20% of the people are from New York/New Jersey, many there’s a few from other northern states also, and a lot of Latins not just of Cuban descent but from all the Caribbean nations and from South American countries like Colombia, Brazil, etc. Not a huge football following and there are a lot of pro sports competing for the entertainment dollar down there. Not to mention the beach and everything else there is to do down there.

What I would be curious to know is if the dollars brought in from the television footprint would mirror the actual attendance figures that Miami draws which to me are very poor. Would it expand revenue dollars for the sec despite UM’s poor following in the area or not?

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Delbert

Another suggestion that me and my wife are considering is moving to north Ga.

There are plenty of granite stones to use for building and I think the Janitorial Engineers at Tech can figure out a way to make you a stone toilet.

Anyway use those tickets to bring in volunteers

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Tide Rising….I’ve been saying for a while now that the Miami program is tinkering on falling to a point it can never recover from at least to the levels that most remember them at in the 80s and 90s. You use to think they could always bounce back just based off recruiting. Now kids in their own city are turning them away for South Florida, FIU and FAU. Not to mention when Meyer and UF walk into town and pick who they want.

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Something just occurred to me. I guess any idea of naming “Dooley Field at Sanford Stadium” has been put on hold with Derek at UT.

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KGator79,

I don’t know if kids would really go to FAU or FIU over Miami though. That may be a bit of a stretch but I can see some of them going to USF. Also, unless they really do want to be close to home I would imagine they would rather be at a bigger time sec program than a dying miami program. We got Ed Stinson a 4 star jack type lb/def end out of there last year and he figures to be a contributor as a backup this year or next year at the latest.

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Miami’s stadium is not even theirs. It’s a pro stadium miles from campus.

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Tide Rising…recruits are going to FIU and FAU who Miami has been targeting. FIU is quietly building a solid program. FAU has already won a couple bowl games in the last few years. Now Im not talking obviously 5 star studs, but they are taking those high quality 3 star guys that we use to see go to Miami. You add in Florida raiding the state for the elite talent and it just isnt a good combination. Just look at Miami’s latest recruiting class. Miami fan use to think Randy Shannon was the man in south florida (Recruiting wise) he had the connections, every high school coach would lean their kids toward shannon before any other college coach. Times they do change!

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The whole FSU attendance thing really gets me. FSU generally has a big following. I guess Im just remember the days of Gator games where even in our 6-5 days of the 80s the swamp was always sold out and loud. Maybe though in the day of every game being on TV if your program falls to that level you dont feel the need to actually go, just find what channel its on and save your money.

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Whatever we do I hope we don’t add Miami. Miami doesn’t play on campus and they don’t fill up their stadium. They also wouldn’t be a good cultural fit (see Lane Kiffin). Georgia Tech would be a good fit but they also struggle to fill their stadium. My guess would be Clemson and Georgia Tech or Virginia Tech and Georgia Tech. Don’t count out FSU either.

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The ACC is in no way interested in allowing NCState to leave the conference. NCState is a fine university, always has been, and always will be. When I graduated HS in 1962 (and matriculated at UNC), only smart kids from my high school went to NCState. While they are more liberal in accepting students today, they still have outstanding science and technical degree programs, to include through the PhD level. People outside of academia might just be ignorant when it comes to evaluating colleges and universities.

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One of the blogs on the espn site speculates that the Big 10 might be considering Vanderbilt, Maryland, and Georgia Tech. Apparently the argument is that they are all good academic fits located in major cities that are easy to travel to. It’s hard for me to see Vandy or Tech going to the Big 10, but Maryland (and the DC tv market) wouldn’t suprise me.

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With that dumbo Swofford leading the way, the ACC will fail.

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And another thought. Tech joining the SEC would be great for the AJC!

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GIVE THE SEC FSU AND MIAMI

WHILE WE TAKE VANDY AND USC FROM THE SEC

ALONG WITH ECU PITT WVU AND LOUISVILLE

THAT WILL CUT DOWN TRAVEL COST FROM HAVING BC FLY ALL THE TO FLORIDA…

USC WILL BE PLAYING CLEMSON AND THAT WILL BE A CONF GAME WHICH WILL ADD MORE FUEL TO THE FIRE….NOT TO MENTION WVU VA ,VA TECH PLAYING EACH OTHER EVERY YEAR….

WE ALL KNOW THAT ALL THE IN STATE NC GAMES WILL BE SOLD AS THEY ALWAYS DO WITH UNC,,DOOK,ECU,NCSTATE, AND WAKE FOREST IN STATE RECURITING WILL BE CUT THROAT..

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Phillip – Some earlier comments on this subject; Louisville would not likely be chosen by the SEC because they are Tier 3 academic school.

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The ACC would never add East Carolina. There are no Tier 3 schools in the ACC (and none in the Big Ten either.)

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Someone asked where i got my research figures:

This is for 2008.

GT: NSF says $522million. USG says $445 million
The average of the two is $483 million

UGA: NSF says $350 million. USG says $192 million
The average of the two is $271 million

So I was a little off on UGA, sorry.

But it is still a difference of over $200 million/ year. Oh yeah, and UGA has twice the number of students.

And there were 6 ACC teams in the top 50 NSF total research awards, vs 3 SEC teams by my count for 2008.

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Think the whole key will be Notre Dame. That would settle the Big 10 at 12. But The Pac 10 would love Colorado and that is where it will get interesting. Think BYU and Colorado makes the Pac 10 happy. If ND refuses to join the Big 10, the whole state of affairs depends on where the Big 10 would elect to expand to. The East would be Pitt, Syracuse and possibly Rutgers because of the New York Market. Think Missouri would be their next choice. The Big 12 would need 2 teams. Doubt Rice and TCU would both be viable and SMU, despite Dallas market, isn’t big time since the 80’s. They would beg for Arkansas and if they leave, the SEC would have to try and pry at least Miami or FSU from the ACC. If the SEC feels 14 or 16 is better, GT and Clemson would be next. Atlanta is an obvious market. A 15th/16th team would come from Louisville, Va Tech and…don’t laugh…Boston College. Why wouldn’t the SEC expand into the northeast just like the ACC if the $$ was there? Yes, the Big East would be swallowed up by the ACC( W Va, Big 10 rejected schools, S Fl ) and possibly C Fl( Orlando)…..expansion won’t be directed by schools, but by MARKET PLACE. It’s going to be 1990 all over again…..REMEMBER when FSU was a ‘lock” for the SEC and S CAR was going back to the ACC? The ACC better get a deal in place fast or they will lose FSU, Miami GT and Clemson for sure. Tony is right on the money. EXCELLENT call.

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Will Ugay even have enough players to field a team after all the arrests?

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Let the Big 10 expand…it won’t present any problems for the other conferences…instead, what will happen is that the already weak Big 10 will spread itself even thinner and thus become even weaker! Who in the hell is afraid of the Big 10?

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Big 10/11 goes after ND, Missouri, Nebraska, and Rutgers. Big 12 is bleeding bad now. If all four schools agree that puts them at 15 they need to get to 16 so they raid the Big 12 again. The sharks are circling, the SEC most now pick up four to get to 16, they raid the BIG 8 now for Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State, and the feeding frenzy begins anew when the sharks from the PAC smell blood and go after Colorado and the remaining three and the Big 12 is no longer. The ACC must now feed itself and raids the Big East again snatching Pitt, U Conn, Syracuse, and Villinova moves up to big time football. Feeding time is now over.

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It is looking more and more that the Big Ten will expand to 16 teams so I believe the SEC needs to move forward and start the expansion process now as if there will be invitations to some of the ACC Schools now is the time to begin laying the ground work and start the dialogue. The ACC will not simply lay down and let the SEC take away members of the conference so being aggressive and proactive is absolutely necessary.

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[...] AJC’s Tony Barnhart thinks the ACC has to take the second option of Swofford’s words and put a plan in action. The fact is that the ACC is as vulnerable right now as the Big East was back in 2003. Here’s [...]

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Texas, Oklahoma, or Texas A&M ?????? Maybe your right, but the logistics would be very challenging….

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The ACC would do itself a favor and drop Ga Tech for Ga State.

In 10 years there will be more fans a Ga State than at Ga Tech.

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Gt4 never

I think its your fans who consistently win the NC for worst fans in the country.

Because you go to a conference championship and cannot even fill the stadium.

You never fill your highschool stadium except when you play a real opponent in UGA.

And your fans think because you won the ACC last year your going to play for the NC this year.

Your just another Tech fan that needs to get a clue.

The SEC doesn’t want or need a school that cannot fill its highschool stadium and cannot beat a terrible UGA team.

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Not to mention Mississippi and Mississippi State.

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I am a Gator fan and think that we would be a great fit in the ACC. Currently we are the only academics first school in the SEC. We are just so much better than the SEC right now and the best thing that our school can do is to continue its push into the top 10 schools in America. Moving to the ACC protects our athletics program and then enhances our academics.

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Get GT back in the SEC!

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Still a stretch for Logistics for Home and Away game setup…. I really doubt that they leave the conference their in….. Time will tell..

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Glad you brought up academics as I did some research and according to US News the following information came to light.
The average college ranking for each conference is;

ACC – 48.6
Big 10/11 – 50.18
Pac 10 – 89
SEC – 93
Big 12 – 99.91
Big East Football – 112

Neither of the ACC or the Big 10/11 have any school in Tier 3 or not rated. For the purpose of this study I gave an arbitrary 150 for a Tier 3 school, 175 for a Tier 4, and 200 for Not Rated (NR). The Pac 10 had one Tier 2 and one NR. The SEC had two Tier 3. The SEC had two Tier 3. Big 12 had three Tier 3. The Big east had 3 Tier 3 and one NR. If the Big 10 pick up ND only that would lift them to 47.6 and any combination of Rutgers, Nebraska, or Missouri would drop them as low as 58.28.
Bull Gator, you know of course that Vanderbilt had the best in the SEC at 17, Florida was second with 47. Of all major football colleges Stanford had the best at 4 followed by Duke 10, Northwestern 12 and both UVA and UCLA at 24 to finish the top 5.

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GT4, not any worse than Colorado or Iowa.

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Pawley’s Island Jacket, GT won’t move, what would be the motive, small fish in big pond, or stay and be a bigger fish in a smaller pond FOR NOW.

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We are commonly known throughout the country as the Harvard of the South.

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Bull Gator, you might want to watch that in the future as Miami is ranked 50 to you 47. As far as the Harvard of the south I lay that at Duke.

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The University of Florida is where the brightest students in America persue there dreams.

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Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee and Florida merging with existing ACC schools to re-create the old Southern Conference. Interesting idea, big TV markets.

From what I read, Missouri and Nebraska have an offer from the Big Ten. Notre Dame may want BC, so they would probably stick with Rutgers to go to 16.

The remaining SEC western schools could merge with the Texas & Oklahoma schools.

If the expanded ACC loses BC, Vanderbilt would be a natural, but South Carolina would need a new home. Miami could go with the Texas/Oklahoma/Mississippi/LSU/Arkansas crowd, opening up another slot (who drives to Miami, anyway…they fly.) Either the new ACC or the new ex-Big 12 would love Kentucky for basketball. Better fit academically for the ex-Big 12.

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From Atticus’ list of SEC-West

Texas
Texas A&M
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
LSU
Arkansas
Ole Miss
Mississippi State

Add existing Big 12:
Kansas
Kansas St.
Baylor
Texas Tech
Iowa St.

Add:
Kentucky
Miami

That’s 15 teams. Pick one more, Maybe TCU.

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OK, well then try applying for the POTUS job…… He may be more delusional than you are…..

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Atticus, I’m telling you it would be more natual for the SEC and ACC to merge than the SEC and Big 12. Schools from both the SEC and ACC were together in the Southern Conference.

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Or I say the SEC and ACC partner up, keep conf as is but have champions play after their conf championship game for BCS bid

so it would be a 3 round playoff for bid to BSC game semi’s.

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Bigtime, that could work to.

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Central Florida and South Florida are Tier 3 schools. The ACC presidents would not admit them.

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WesleyWhatWhat,
Play-ins
MAC/C-USA
MWC/WAC
Quarter Finals
ACC vs SEC (Atlanta)
Big 10 vs Big 12 (St Louis)
Pac 10 vs MWC/WAC (Denver)
Big East vs MAC/C-USA (New York)
Semi-Finals
ACC/SEC vs Big East/MAC/C-USA (Charlotte)
Big 10/Big 12 vs Pac 10/MWC/WAC (Phoenix)
Championship rotates in L.A./Dallas/Chicago/Washington D.C.
You will notice that all cities have a NFL stadium and no city receives 2 games.

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HokieRon, and what makes you think you could keep up with Alabama, Florida, Georgia, and LSU year after year. You say yourself you have a cake walk in the A she she and YOU STILL CAN’T MAKE THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME. If it hadn’t been for the governor of Va. You’d still be wasting away in the Big Least. Heck if it hadn’t been for FSU, Miami, and Boston college all falling off the map at the same time you wouldn’t even be competed for the ACC championship. Also with Mike London taking over at UVA don’t think you’re going to take all the prize recruits from the southside. Al Groh gave you that area on a silver platter. So shut-up, sit down and only speck when spoken to.

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Hokie Ron
GT would be the only REAL football program coming out of the ACC….

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I forgot to mention the irony in it all. “The University of Florida is where the brightest students in America persue there dreams.” I hope those same students choose to PURSUE a minor in spelling.

If it were a typo, I wouldn’t have pointed it out…but c’mon man. Can’t argue in favor of academics when you can’t spell first. Once again, apologies all around to Gators fans if this is in fact a rival just trying to make you look bad.

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Why do you think they cancelled the gt bama game. Because it will be right when schedules change from expansion this year.

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Ormewood… excuse me for using abbrebiation for the university of South Carolina you must be one of those angry drunk SEC fans….

Steve Spurrier wants to win now and his team will be more competitive in the ACC besides Butch Davis and Frank Beamer he will be a high profile coach and creep out of the shadows of the Sabans and the Myers…. Still like ECU with the coaching changes and stadium expansion that could generate alot off attention… along with the addition of Pitt W.VA and Vandy could make for some good football…

Coastal
UNC
VA TECH
PITT
VA
W.VA
DOOK
MIAMI

ATLANTIC
SC
CLEMSON
VANDY
NC STATE
ECU
WAKE
MARYLAND
BC

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Jason, one problem with your idea with the exception of NC State they don’t bring anything new to the SEC. Let’s start with FSU – UF is in Florida so it doesn’t open up a new state, really doesn’t give them a bigger footprint. Then GT, same thing as FSU except that it would be UG, and lastly Clemson see above except put USC in place of the other teams. So that would leave NCState, where do you get the idea that they’re a football first school? NCState won’t go without UNC or Duke. For the SEC to expand their footprint it would only be logical for them to go after Texas and either Okalahoma or OK State. Watch for that to happen if the Big 10/11 is able to take Nebraska and Missouri from the Big 12. SEC takes two and the PAC 10 takes two. The opinion that Texas and Okalahoma are to far away from the SEC is not true, if you get Texas and Okalahoma you pair them up with Arkansas, LSU and the two Mississippi schools and it would be no longer a trip than what South Carolina would have to go to play Arkansas.

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If I were the ACC I would go out right now and invite West virginia, Louisville, South Florida and either Memphis, UConn, Notre Dame or Syrcause to join. Be proactive, protect the basketball product, up the football product and give the current members a feeling of security and a plan of action. Sure the SEC may come after some schools but a move like this might give those schools second thoughts before jumping. Texas & Texas A&M are a pipe-dream for the SEC. The Big XII could lose up to 4 schools and all they would do is replace them (likely with TCU, Colorado St., BYU and SMU, Tulsa or Houston). Texas wants nothing to do with the SEC. They would rather make the Big XII work and be king of the roost. Look for some sort of “agreement” with the PAC10..thats waaay more likely to happen.
I look for the Big Ten to nap up Missouri, Rutgers, Pittsburgh, Syrcause and either Notre Dame, Nebraska, UConn, Boston College or Maryland.
The SEC will most likely get some combo of Florida State, Miami, UVA, Va Tech, Clemson and East Carolina.
The PAC 10 will probably go out and get Utah, Boise State, Hawaii, UNLV or maybe Colorado…but I really doubt that last one.
The funny thing is that C-USA may come out better than anyone. Look for them to lose one or two schools which they will replace and then they will probably get 4 addational schools as well. Look for schools like Cincy, Navy, Temple, La Tech, Air Force, Army, North Texas, Middle Tennessee, Western Kentucky, Utah State all to be in the mix for them and if things get really crazy and the Big XII starts to crumble look for Kansas, Kansas State, Texas Tech, Baylor and Iowa State as possible C-USA members…wouldnt that be a kick in the head???

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Football Folly, it is folly if you think the ACC would consider WVU, WVU is not in the academic range of the ACC which has no Tier 3 schools, the same goes for South Florida and Memphis. As far as the other three U Conn and Syracuse would be good fits while ND being a good fit academically geographically it would be a challenge, I believe the ACC had learned a lesson with Boston College.
The Big 10/11 want football power in Nebraska and Missouri, and the market shares of NYC that Rutgers could give them and the “name” ND would bring. U Conn would bring the Connecticut market, Boston College would bring Boston but I don’t see that due to the problems they have in the ACC in distance, and Maryland would bring D.C. but would they leave the UVA rivalry, don’t know for sure.
The SEC going after FSU or the U no reason to with FU in Florida, their footprint doesn’t open any new areas, same with Clemson in South Carolina. East Carolina not big enough yet, won’t wait for them to grow. Now the UVA and VT would give them new areas and would have them looking more intently at it. In the end I believe that they would grab 2 from the Big 12 if the Big 10 is able to.
The PAC 10 would look at Colorado and maybe Boise State. Utah, UNLV, and Hawaii will not bring anything to the PAC although Hawaii would make it interesting.
C-USA could pick up some of the others but don’t look for Army and Navy, independents, nor Air Force as they are part of the WAC. If the Big 12 loses the schools I think they could they then would merge with WAC, MWC, or C-USA but would retain the Big 12 moniker.

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Y’all ready to see my boy Aaron Murray win the Heisman?!?!

UGA will win it all this year in football….

It’s on… Oh and Gators…we’re coming for you! We’ll hang 50 on Florida and Tech this year on our way to the National Championship!

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Heels that would be true.

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UGA = 2010 NATIONAL FOOTBALL CHAMPS!

I promise there’s no team better in the SEC this year! Bama sucks and so do the Gators….

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Not sure I agree with y’all on the National Championship….but I do think the Dawgs will definitely win the SEC and kick the snot outta tech. Aaron Murray is the real deal. Also, Mark Richt will put together a great gameplan. I have faith in our team this year. I really think there’s a possiblity of BIG things!

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24-7

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J O S H U A N E S B I T T for HEISMAN, take that dogpoops and shove it…oh yeah that’s right, your game plan will be to injure him but by the time the two teams meet up, it will be too late…

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(QB-1) No problem QB-1.. After I read the article I starting thinking that if the ACC had a good mind to they could draw SC and Vandy into the ACC bout teams want to win especially Spurrier and SC, both teams can be competitive in the league and will gain more TV air time…. Then SEC the so calld power conf will be trying to draw in the likes of Texas ect… which i doubt will happen I would love it… But someone tell me why the Big Ten are not inviting Boise State they deserve it and it will add strenght of schedule to the conf its a win win… the only problem maybe stadium cap @ Boise…

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1000 Yards Rushing and 1700 Yards Passing with 18 Total TD’s last year as a Junior…

Yea, he had some real trouble. Hey how’d he and Tech do against “the best defensive line” last year?

Oh yea….I remember…24-7!

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Mel Kiper doesnt make mistakes 9 NFL players on his board 4 projected first round….. Men Lie Women lie numbers dont lie…. Top 25 in every stat department…..

Nesbitt is a bum he lost his leading WR who only ran go routes all season and the entire left side of his O line not to mention thier leading rusher who you had to key on…. Teams will key him way more this season…..

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[...] So what the hell does all this mean for the ACC? [...]

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The question was asked “What does all this mean for the ACC”?
My take is IF the SEC comes knocking they will not be after Miami or FSU, market is covered by UF so wouldn’t open any new markets. They will not go after GT or Clemson for the same reason just insert UGA or USC instead of UF.
That takes us to the state of NC with Duke, NCS, UNC, and Wake which the most intriguing being either Duke or NCS; Duke for their Bball who I believe won’t leave w/o UNC and NCS they would want for the Charlotte market, there again I doubt they would leave w/o the other NC schools.
Then further north you get VA with UVA and VT, VT would give them an opening into VA markets and they are good in Football and BBall, UVA would open up the VA and DC markets and they are rebounding in both football and Bball along with National Championship caliber Baseball, and some other “minor” sports as they have 7 ACC Championships this year with the best shot of winning the Baseball Title also. Although it’s my opinion that UVA will not leave with out VT.
Then Maryland with UM and another shot into DC which brings many of the same upsides as UVA but I think the SEC will not go that far north over both NC and VA to pull in a team and the same would be said about Boston College.
With all that the most logical schools to receive invites would be UVA and VT.

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All along I’ve said a merger of the SEC and ACC, or some kind of alignment between the two.

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Go Heels, I could agree with all but ECU, just insert U Conn instead as a rival for BC.

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QB-1 I agree with 100% but I just dont think the ACC is that cut throat…. We already took away Va Tech Miami and BC then we will be taking Pitt and UCONN from the Big East…..WOW…LMAO…. But it could happen….

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That “garbage offense”?!?! Maybe YOU should do some research. Tech put up 406 yards total offense on your Heels last year (317 of that rushing). Add in 42 minutes time of possesion! If it’s “garbage” why can’t your highly touted big time recruited defense stop it?! Like I said, become relevant and get over .500 in the ACC…then talk trash. What leg have you got to stand on here? You’re riping on Tech’s offense?!? A team that just won the ACC and was second in the country in rushing!?! Sounds like someone’s just a tad jealous…..

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Hello if you had that long of positions evidently our offense wasnt producing we had millions of three and outs…. U can put the Panthers defense on the field 45 mins and you will still get alot of total yardage the kids are human…. If you had 405 yds total yardage and scored 24 points that isnt very impressive….. Iam going to give you one name Bryn Rynner…. future hiesman…

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You still have not responsed to my original point. Why are you talking trash when the Heels have done nothing of recent memory in the ACC? NOTHING! Tech has owned you over the past 10 years and they have and ACC Championship. These big time recruits are still not bringing you championships so maybe it’s coaching? Or maybe you should wait until your team actually does something before you boast about how good they are. Especially when you’re on a blog talking trash about the Champs ” garbage offense” that owned you last year. Let us know when your team does something. Until then….UNC will always be over rated!

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Here’s the plan…the ACC goes out and gets West Virginia, Louisville, Memphis and UConn right now. They meet with Fox and the NFL network and offer the two a package with their Football, basketball, baseball and soccer togeather and ask for 3.5 billion from the two for a 12 to 15 year deal. Fox gets the best basketball league in the land plus they split costs with the NFL network. It makes them a top 3 player and is a deal for Fox which gets 3 or 4 sports to cover at a reduced rate (since the NFL network would offset some of the cost). It’d be a win-win for all involved.
Then if the SEC raids the ACC it is less likely that any of the schools would leave and if they did the league would still have solid footing in sports (they might have to grab an ECU, Syrcause, South Florida or Temple, but it wouldnt be a league-killer.

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The best move in my opinion for the ACC is as follows (to best prevent an SEC raid and maintain its top 2-3 overall academic rankings currrently 1) IVY 2) ACC/BIG 10 3) PAC 10…the rest.

Add: CUSE/UCONN/WVU/PITT to the northern block along w BC & MD,, VT & Miami (Lville & Memphis as alts.

All bring major new markets,world class top tier programs and research dollars. The case for outlier WVU is that they are winners, fully commited to athletics as their results have shown and their biggest plus..theu.consistently, put asses in the seats which the ACC needs. If desperatey for at bowl parings time

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Whats with all the chatter about Swafford & the ACC boys talking to the Irish? Man I hope that doesnt happen! I just dont see it working. If Im the clowns at the ACC I go after Louisville & Memphis RIGHT NOW. Why? Because it makes the Carolina and old school basketballers happy, it keeps the footprint somewhat intact, by expandingto 14 you gain a level of proection from other expansions and you become a bit more in control of whats happening to the league in all this.

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