ACC needs an expansion plan–right now
Bear Bryant used to end his Sunday night television show with these words: “Don’t forget to call your Mama. I wish I could call mine.” I was lucky to be with my Mama on Sunday in Madison, Ga. Hope you had a great Mother’s Day as well.
The ACC Spring Meetings begin today at the lovely beach-front Ritz-Carlton Hotel at Amelia Island. Think the Big Ten’s possible expansion plans will come up? Yes it will because there are some athletics directors who are going to sit in the day’s first meeting with commissioner John Swofford and want to know three things: 1) What do we expect the Big Ten to do? 2) How do we expect the SEC to react? 3) What is our plan if No. 1 and No. 2 both happen?
It wasn’t that long ago that the ACC was expanding and dipping into the Big East for three teams (Miami, Boston College, Virginia Tech). The ACC was the aggressor in an effort to expand to 12 teams and bulk up its status as major player in football.
It hasn’t been a failure as some detractors would suggest, but neither has it been the rousing success that the football forces in the ACC had hoped. Florida State and Miami, which were placed in separate divisions to maximize their punch, are still struggling to get back on the national stage. The conference championship game has been a mixed bag, depending on the matchup. The ACC remains the only conference of the Big Six not to place two teams in BCS bowls in the same season. The landscape of college football has changed dramatically since the ACC last expanded.
The ACC did get a good initial TV contract from expansion but that contract ends after the 2010-2011 season. The ACC is in the midst of its negotiation for a new football deal and the numbers that are being offered, I’ve been told, are not particularly good given the marketplace, where the economy is down and the Big Ten and SEC are sucking up about 50 percent of the available dollars. Don’t be surprised if the ACC brings on another TV partner, like Fox or the NFL Network, hoping to generate more revenue.
The fact is that the ACC is as vulnerable right now as the Big East was back in 2003. Here’s why:
If the Big Ten expands to 16 teams the SEC may feel the need to follow suit. The SEC could look to the ACC and take some teams (like Florida State) to solidify its Southern footprint.
Here is another item that should concern you as an ACC fan. My buddy Blair Kerkoff of the Kansas City Star reports that the Pac-10 and Big 12 are having discussions about the possibility of forming an alliance and negotiating their TV deals as one unit. Together they would have more clout (and more television sets) than individually.
Here are the facts, folks, and I hope my friends in the ACC are reading this down in Amelia Island. If the Big Ten goes to 16 teams, the Big East is going to be out of the football business. The SEC and the Big Ten dominate the marketplace. They will get their money while the Pac-10, Big 12, and ACC are going to be scrambling for what’s left.
If those three conferences don’t already have contingency plans in place, they had better put them together—and fast. I know that Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany has said his expansion plans are still in a 12-18 month window. I don’t believe that and there are some very smart people who work in this business who don’t believe it either.
Because once the Big Ten makes its move, this thing is going to move very quickly. It’s going to be like a high-stakes game of musical chairs and somebody may get left without a quality seat, financially speaking, at the college football’s Big Boy table. And that could be our friends at the ACC.
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416 comments Add your comment
HugoStiglitz
May 10th, 2010
3:22 pm
Tide Rising, I just dont think the ACC or Big Ten is as willing to accept a weak academic school as the SEC is. There are already tier 3 schools in the SEC and several other schools that are tier 1 are ranked pretty low. There are also only 2 AAU schools in the SEC. Vandy is the obvious anomaly as they are the only SEC school who cares more about academics then football. Using them as the academic torch for the conference is a little misleading. The Big 10 wont consider a weak academic school. They have made that clear. The ACC could but I still doubt it. The SEC would probably take anybody that bolsters the conference in football.
KGator79
May 10th, 2010
3:25 pm
Florida doesnt want Florida State in the SEC? uh ok. UF already beats up on them annually with only one close game against UF by FSU since Meyer as been there with the rest being blowouts. Lets not forget though, it was FSU who was afraid to join the SEC back in the early 90s. They join the SEC they probably dont win their national titles.
OB-1
May 10th, 2010
3:25 pm
Where is the ACC, you talk like 18 million is a lot of money, it’s not when they can get 100 million for research because they are affiliated with other schools like them.
Gunther, the ACC consist of Boston College, Maryland, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, Duke, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, and Miami.
sam adams, academics will play a larger part than you would like to believe.
Delbert D.
May 10th, 2010
3:26 pm
“Vandy gets 18 million to go 0-8 every year. Why would they leave”
Some wealth VU philanthropist might entice them to move to the ACC.
Tide Rising
May 10th, 2010
3:26 pm
QB-1 and Hugo Stiglitz,
I don’t dispute that the ACC has higher overall academic rankings. It has 2 of the finest public schools in the nation in UVA and UNC and 4 private schools in the conference. What I’m saying is that the whole thing about West Virginia is not worthy of big 10 or acc membership is hogwash.
Its hogwash because West Virginia is already in a conference in the big east with fine academic institutions especially in basketball. No one will dispute that Syracuse, Georgetown and Notre Dame especially are fine academic institutions. Villanova, Marquette are good schools as well and I believe that Providence, St. John’s, and Seton Hall are also good if not great schools. DePaul I’m not sure about. Pulic universitites in the conference such as Uconn and Rutgers I imagine are decent schools.
Looking at the big 10 I see a bunch of just big public universities sandwiched around Northwestern and Purdue which I believe is a state school but in any event is a fine engineering school whether public or private. Michigan is the most heralded by far and Penn State, Wisconsin are good schools supposedly.
I find it difficult to believe that these big state schools are greater academically then a Notre Dame, Georgetown, Syracuse, etc. And yet these schools have no problem affiliating themselves in a conference with West Virginia. As a collective whole I would say these big east schools in basketball certainly do not take a back seat to half or more of the ACC schools. I think you guys saying that you and the big 10 wouldn’t take WVA but that the SEC would is nothing more than hubris and a little bit of “we’re better than you” academic snobbery. It looks that way to me because in terms of academic standing the big east, particularly its basketball schools, are every bit the equal if not the superior of the acc and big 10 in academics and yet they have West Virginia as a member.
Technophobia
May 10th, 2010
3:33 pm
Oh great, just what we need….. too big to fail football conference’s.
OB-1
May 10th, 2010
3:34 pm
Tide Rising, I won’t speak for the Big 10/11 or the SEC, but the ACC is built for/around academics first, basketball second, and football third. WVU plays in the Big East basketball because they play football in the Big East.
OB-1
May 10th, 2010
3:35 pm
Big East Basketball is built around the Catholic Schools.
Jesse Michael Jackson Shabazz
May 10th, 2010
3:43 pm
Are you people on drugs?? SEC adding Memphis?? UNC to the SEC?? These are the most insane ideas ever. North Carolina is not going anywhere without Duke..And no need to even discuss Memphis.
Big 10 will add Neb, Mizzou, ND, and Rutgers….
SEC will add Texas, Texas A&M, Ok St. Ok A&M…
ACC will add ‘Cuse, Wva, UConn, Pitt…
Pac-10 adds Utah and Colo…
and Big 12 adds TCU, Houston, SMU, BYU, and Boise State
HugoStiglitz
May 10th, 2010
3:43 pm
Tide Rising, there are some great schools in the Big East which is why the Big 10 will probably grab some of them. Notre Dame isnt really a Big East school but obviously they are the biggest candidate. Syracuse, Rutgers, and Pitt are all also probable candidates to go to the Big 10. WV is not. They are not going to accept a Tier 3, non AAU member in their conference. Its just not going to happen. Call it snobbery if you want, its not going to change things. The ACC I was more speculating on but I honestly dont think they would take WV unless they had to after being picked apart from other conferences.
sam adams
May 10th, 2010
3:45 pm
i have degrees from UGA and attended UA (U. of Alabama) and i KNOW that they are built on football!
Where is the ACC?
May 10th, 2010
3:47 pm
The 17 million per year is for TV CONTRACTS ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Otto
May 10th, 2010
3:53 pm
Shabaz, You must be on drugs. The BigTen+1 has 11 memembers, adding 4 teams would have them at 15.
Where is the ACC?
May 10th, 2010
3:55 pm
OB-1 you are confusing general university budgets with athletic budgets. Other than a token gift from the AD to the general fund, the two do not go on the same accounting ledger. Expansion is about athletic budgets and TV contracts, and the Big 10 and SEC lead in both. It has nothing to do with how good your team is on the field directly but how many eyes are watching the TV sets.
Buzzzed
May 10th, 2010
4:12 pm
The ACC should be happy to trade NC State for Vandy. That would be a great deal.
Buzzzed
May 10th, 2010
4:14 pm
I think tech BBall brings in $55 million alone in revenue.
Shreveport Sam
May 10th, 2010
4:16 pm
Ezra’s House of Mountain Oysters will be offerin’ a special at our soon to be opened Athens location this year – potted meat on wheat with a Cheez-Its for $2.95 if you “woof” when you walk in the door!
Matt
May 10th, 2010
4:18 pm
Joe Schad just reported on College Football Live that the Big Ten made offers to Nebraska, Missouri, Notre Dame and Rutgers. Interesting. And where is Mr. College Football? Playing golf or cribbage or something not related to this breaking story.
Bulldog59
May 10th, 2010
4:19 pm
Tomsjeep88 comments pretty much sum it up. It’s just another attempt by the Big 10 to try to get ND. And again, ND has no reason to share the goldmine they are sitting on (NBC contract and guaranteed BCS bid if they finish high enough.)
The Big 10 could have/should have made the needed concessions to ND years ago. They do this same dance every few years.
jumbeauxtiger
May 10th, 2010
4:21 pm
Does anyone else know if the SEC’s TV contracts with ESPN and CBS have a clause that allow the deals to be renegotiated if the conference expands? It seems to me there would be such a clause in place.
Bulldog59
May 10th, 2010
4:30 pm
Jumbeauxtiger, most likely, but I’m not sure. Even if the contract did not contain it, if an expansion occurs, there would probably be a negotiation and addendum written.
Delbert D.
May 10th, 2010
4:31 pm
Tide Rising – “…No one will dispute that Syracuse, Georgetown and Notre Dame especially are fine academic institutions. Villanova, Marquette are good schools as well and I believe that Providence, St. John’s, and Seton Hall are also good if not great schools. DePaul I’m not sure about. Pulic universitites in the conference such as Uconn and Rutgers I imagine are decent schools.”
Villanova and Providence weren’t on USN&RP National Universities list. DePaul, St. Johns and Seton Hall are NR (not ranked.)
Here are rankings that address some of your post (Big Ten):
Marquette #84
Georgetown #23
Notre Dame #20
Big Ten private universities
Northwestern #12
Purdue #61
Big Ten public universities
Michigan #27
Illinois #39
Wisconsin #39
Penn St. #47
Ohio St. #53
Minnesota #61
Indiana #71
Mich St. #71
Iowa #71
Others for comparison
UVA #17
UNC #28
BC #34
Ga. Tech #35
Florida #47
Texas #47
U Miami #50
Syracuse #58
Clemson #61
Va. Tech #71
Auburn #88
Alabama #96
Nebraska #96
FSU #102
So. Carolina #110
Arkansas, KY, LSU 128
(all below 128 are Tier 3 or Tier 4)
Oklahoma #102
Bulldog59
May 10th, 2010
4:38 pm
Delbert, also, I believe UGA is ranked #58.
So Tony...
May 10th, 2010
4:39 pm
Why is it you can make the SEC meetings, but cant make the ACC meetings? Just sayin…
BamaBill
May 10th, 2010
4:40 pm
From reports, the Big 10 (11) has invited 4 teams: Missouri, Nebraska, Rutgers, and Notre Dame..I expect the offer to ND was courtesy for no one expects them to accept..Nebraska never has liked the way the Big 12 was aligned, so who knows…Missouri is all but in, and am not sure about Rutgers..
Bulldog59
May 10th, 2010
4:42 pm
They only need 1, once at 12, they are eligible for a conference championship game.
Matt
May 10th, 2010
4:42 pm
Here’s the KC radio station’s report from it’s website. My own take is that Mizzou, Nebraska, and Rutgers would be insane not to accept, purely from a money and academics standpoint. I know that’s hard for all you SEC fans to understand (except the Vandy grads), but that’s the way it is for these schools. ND is the big question.
Big Ten makes initial offer to Big 12 pair
The Big Ten Conference has extended initial offers to join the league to four universities including Missouri and Nebraska from the Big 12, according to multiple sources close to the negotiations.
While nothing can be approved until the Big Ten presidents and chancellors meet the first week of June in Chicago, the league has informed the two Big 12 schools, Notre Dame and Rutgers that it would like to have them join. It is not yet clear whether the Big Ten will expand to 14 or 16 teams but sources indicated Missouri and Nebraska are invited in either scenario. Notre Dame has repeatedly declined the opportunity to join the Big Ten. If Notre Dame remains independent, Rutgers would be the 14th team. The Big Ten would then decide whether to stop at 14 or extend offers to two other schools. If Notre Dame joins, sources say an offer will be extended to one other school making it a 16-team league.
In order for the University of Missouri to join the Big Ten, the Missouri Board of Regents will still have to approve the move. Sources close to the governing body say the Big Ten has told officials that Mizzou could add $1.3 million per month in revenue to the lucrative Big Ten Television Network. The Big Ten Network is currently offered on basic cable to very few of over 7 million residents living in Missouri television markets and adding it throughout the state will be a windfall for the conference.
Big Ten representatives have also told Missouri officials they would like to have the entire expansion process wrapped up this summer with a formal announcement coming no later than July.
The University of Missouri is currently under contract with the Big 12 conference and will have to pay a stiff penalty to leave the Big 12. The Big 12 charter states any member will lose between 50 and 100 percent of its shared annual revenue depending on the length of notice any school gives. According to published reports, Missouri receives around $9 million annually in shared football revenue from the Big 12. According to sources, it seems likely Missouri would give one- year notice. It is projected that Missouri’s football revenues would increase by $10 million or more per year when it joins the Big Ten versus what it currently receives in the Big 12.
Delbert D.
May 10th, 2010
4:43 pm
Tide Rising – “Tide Rising – “…No one will dispute that Syracuse, Georgetown and Notre Dame especially are fine academic institutions.”
Darn. After all that, I left stuff out:
West Virginia Tier 3
Rutgers #66
Georgia #58
Nebraska #96
Missouri #102
Memphis Tier 4
Delbert D.
May 10th, 2010
4:46 pm
It would cost less for Missouri to leave the big 12 than for Ga. Tech to fire Paul Hewitt!
dagnabit
May 10th, 2010
4:46 pm
Madison . Well how about that! I was born in Madison 64 years ago. I suggest the ACC start whopping butt on the football field.
Matt
May 10th, 2010
4:46 pm
It’ll be interesting to see if the SEC feels the need to expand based on the Big Ten adding Mizzou, Nebraska, and Rutgers alone. Maybe Tech and Clemson, just to keep up, but what does that add in terms of money? Of course, Mr. College Football is nowhere to be found during this story. It’s only the biggest off the field story in decades.
dagnabit
May 10th, 2010
4:48 pm
Start with North Carolina on the first weekend.
jumbeauxtiger
May 10th, 2010
4:51 pm
Delbert, do you know what UGA’s ranking was before they raised their entrance requirements(because of the increase in applicants because of the Hope Grant)? I believe this was done in the early 2000s.
Delbert D.
May 10th, 2010
4:52 pm
dagnabit – Morgan County had some great football teams under Coach Bill Corry.
jumbeauxtiger
May 10th, 2010
4:53 pm
Matt, thanks for the info at 4:42. That’s interesting.
Delbert D.
May 10th, 2010
4:55 pm
jumbeauxtiger – No, I don’t know that. I vaguely remember their rankings being higher in the past, though. There may be archives on the USN&WR site…
Statcat
May 10th, 2010
4:56 pm
ACC just needs to market itself better. SEC better football than ACC or other conferences.
ACC basketball better than SEC or other conferences. ACC better in most minor sports than
other conferences, baseball, soccer, lacrosse, etc. Why wouldn’t a combine ACC football/
basketball tv package be worth as much as SEC football/basketball package. CBS just paid something like10 billion for rights to the basketball tournament. Tournament would be worthless
without ACC. Also ACC needs to create a network like SEC and Big 10 for all those minor sports.
ACC shouldn’t panic just because Big 10 or SEC wants to expand. If ACC can get the right financial package no ACC team would leave for other conferences because nothing to be gained.
Tide Rising
May 10th, 2010
5:06 pm
Delbert D,
Interesting stuff on the rankings. They fall kind of line where I thought they would, especially the big 10 with Michigan being tops and Wisconsin 2nd. Didn’t realize Illinois would be that high.
Where is the ACC?
May 10th, 2010
5:15 pm
“If ACC can get the right financial package no ACC team would leave for other conferences because nothing to be gained.” That is a really big IF. SEC and Big 10 control over %50 of the TV revenue being distributed right now. When you can’t sell out your championship games, what makes you think anyone is going to want to sit at home and watch the games. Good luck getting that “BIG” TV contract.
Ormewood
May 10th, 2010
5:16 pm
Buzzed, you think Tech bball makes $55 million. How? They can’t even sell out that little bandbox they have for conference games. Not a chance.
Delbert D.
May 10th, 2010
5:21 pm
The PAC 10 has the disadvantage of being 3 hours behind the east coast. It tends to be isolating, but that’s based on me living there in the early ’70s. Hawaii was totally weird. NFL games at 9 A.M.
Tide Rising
May 10th, 2010
5:22 pm
QB-1 and Hugo Stiglitz,
After looking at the rankings posted by Delbert D. I’m certainly seeing your point. What I’m not getting is why the big east schools, especially the basketball schools, ignored academics in allowing WVU into the fold while the big 10 and acc evidently will not.
In any event there certainly is a clear academic separation between the big 10 and acc schools and WVU so I can certainly see why they would not want WVU in their respective conferences. Sucks for WVU not just that they can’t get it but also because they have had some lengthy and historic rivalries with some teams in both conferences: a long rivalry with Penn State and Pitt, rivalries with MD, VT, etc. Sucks for the mountaineers.
Delbert D.
May 10th, 2010
5:24 pm
Ormewood – That’s due to the Hewitt Effect. It involves the disappearance of freshmen.
Small Johnson
May 10th, 2010
5:26 pm
GT will move to the Big East so they can have 10 wins every year and compete for the Big East Championship.
The ACC is tired of watching Tech have an empty stadium every game except against UGA.
They are a disgrace to the conference and really should move to Division II
Delbert D.
May 10th, 2010
5:30 pm
I’ve got to admit I was shocked when I saw Memphis as a Tier 4. East Carolina is a Tier 4, so they aren’t going anywhere. Houston isn’t either.
Delbert D.
May 10th, 2010
5:32 pm
I wonder what Alabama would do if they had to play at Duke. That is not a home-and-home deal, is it?
Road Scholar
May 10th, 2010
5:33 pm
Instead of writing this dribble, why don’t you upgrade the GT, ACC, SEC etc pages to include all sports? Tech won the ACC Golf tourney…..no article. Tech women softball had a good year…no articles. Tech women won the ACC tennis tourney…no article. Tech has done well in other sports, while the same articles like Tech to go for sweep against UGA in baseball sit their two weeks after the game was over (of course Tech won!). pardon the pun…..get on the ball!
Beast from the East
May 10th, 2010
5:35 pm
What are the odds that ND joins? Bet you could lay a bet on it in Vegas. I’d probably say 9-1 odds they won’t.
Beast from the East
May 10th, 2010
5:38 pm
Road scholar, I couldn’t agree more. Of course, you can always find what each Brave had for breakfast, lunch and dinner 7 days a week on the AJC!
Delbert D.
May 10th, 2010
5:44 pm
Grant Field was larger than Sanford Stadium in the early 1960’s. Tech didn’t have problems filling it and expanded it again while they were in the SEC. I went to a few games between 1961 and 1967, when they had the horrible cold granite seats in the horseshoe. I went to several games at Sanford Stadium between 1959 – 1963, when they had the wooden “splinter” seats for $1 admission. Quite a few empty seats in the pre-Dooley era. That changed pretty quickly. Then I left the state for 13 years, and in 1980 when I came back, *everything* was different.