Do you need a 5-star QB to win a championship?
In recent days I’ve been asked two very interesting questions related to the NFL Draft and the SEC. I was being interviewed for a radio show in Arkansas and the host, Bo Mattingly, noted that there had been very few five-star quarterbacks signed by SEC schools in the past five years. He wondered if this was going to eventually be a problem for the league.
Another person asked me that if Tim Tebow falls out of the first round and goes late in the second or early third, will that be/should that be a problem for Urban Meyer and his staff at Florida? Will it be said that Florida’s staff had somehow let Tebow down?
The answers are no and emphatically no. Let’s take them one at a time.
First of all, I’m not a big believer in player ratings—too many variables. I’ve seen too many players who allegedly had five-star talent but a one-star work ethic. And I’ve seen WAY too many players who were assigned five-star skill but had only a half-star at best when it came to competitive fire and heart. I am a big believer in talent and that the team with the best players usually wins. But when it comes to winning championships, I am also a big believer in the intangibles. Look at Kentucky’s basketball team. Look at Duke’s basketball team. Yesterday five Kentucky players (four freshmen) said they would enter the NBA Draft and all will do well. But Duke cut down the nets in Indianapolis. Duke has really good players but not five NBA draft picks. The intangibles matter when it comes to winning championships.
I don’t believe the absence of highly-rated quarterbacks is that big a deal because history has shown us that you don’t need a five-star quarterback to win a national championship or an SEC championship.
Below are the last 10 national champions, their starting quarterbacks and where they went in the NFL Draft. I have no idea how many of these guys were five-star quarterbacks coming out of high school but I’m sure some of you can name them off the top of your head. But I’m pretty sure most of them weren’t five-star recruits.
Year—–Nat. Champ——QB—————-Draft
2000—Oklahoma—–Josh Heupel————6th
2001—Miami———Ken Dorsey—————7th
2002—Ohio State—Craig Krenzel————–5th
2003—LSU————-Matt Mauck—————7th
2004—USC————Matt Leinart—————1st
2005—Texas———-Vince Young—————-1st
2006—Florida——–Chris Leak——————undrafted
2007—LSU————Matt Flynn——————7th
2008—Florida——–Tim Tebow——————?????
2009—Alabama——Greg McElory—————???
Everybody on planet Earth wanted Matt Leinart (USC 2004), Vince Young (Texas 2005), and Tim Tebow (Florida 2008). That’s a no brainer.
But look at some of the rest. Josh Heupel (Oklahoma 2000) was a junior college transfer. Craig Krenzel (Ohio State 2002) had an average arm at best but could manage a game. Matt Mauck (LSU 2003) was a minor league baseball player and was chosen in the seventh round. Chris Leak (Florida 2006) was not selected in the draft at all. Greg McElroy (Alabama 2009) doesn’t have the strongest arm in the world but the guy is 29-0 as a starting quarterback in high school and college.
The point is that what’s required of a college quarterback is a completely different than an NFL quarterback. The NFL places a premium on the physical characteristics of a potential quarterback: Height, weight, and arm strength. But to win a championship in college football, the quarterback has to be more of a manager of the game and a distributor of the ball. I believe that in college football a championship quarterback is not defined by what he does. He is defined by what he DOESN’T do (turn the ball over). Both games are great. College football is just different. You can win a national championship with a less talented quarterback who makes good decisions.
That’s why I found the Tebow debate so interesting. First of all, it is the job of the college coach to take the talent on hand and develop it in the best way to win games for his team. His first loyalty is to the institution and to the rest of the players on that roster. Getting a player ready for the NFL is nice if you can do it, but it can’t be more important than the success of the team.
Florida and its coaching staff made every effort to help Tebow with his throwing motion, which we all knew was too loopy for the NFL boys, who tend to obsess over those kinds of things. That’s one reason Meyer brought in Scot Loeffler, who had coached five quarterbacks taken in the draft during his time at Michigan.
But if Tim Tebow is not a first round pick on April 22, you can’t say that anybody failed. Tebow walked away from Florida with two national championships, two SEC championships, a Heisman Trophy and enough awards and good will to fill up Ben Hill Griffin Stadium many times. He will be remembered as one of the greatest players and ambassadors in the history of college football.
Ain’t no failure in that.
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119 comments Add your comment
Greg
April 8th, 2010
7:20 am
You’re reaching with that Duke and Kentucky basketball analogy. As you said, 4 of those 5 UK players are Frosh. The NBA drafts on potential as well as talent. As obviously talented as those UK kids are, they haven’t yet come close to reaching their full potential. If they stayed around for a couple more years so they had the same level of experience as most of Duke’s primary players, UK would have taken Duke and everyone else to pieces. I’m not a fan of Duke or UK, but that’s just a fact.
Jim
April 8th, 2010
7:55 am
You need a manager but you also need a coaching staff which recognizes the quarterback’s abilities. His strengths and weaknesses. You cannot ask a mediocre quarterback to throw a ball 30 yards down the field into double coverage when they do not have the arm strength and their release is painfully slow. In addition, if you like to call bombs with little success, then you place the quarterback and the rest of the offense in a hole.
Michael S.
April 8th, 2010
7:57 am
Colt McCoy was a 3 star from a 2A school.
Mikey
April 8th, 2010
8:11 am
David Greene did fairly well too…
Talent is a tricky thing. « Get The Picture
April 8th, 2010
8:14 am
[...] I enjoy reading Tony Barnhart as much as the next guy, and he certainly has his moments… but this isn’t one of them. … I am a big believer in talent and that the team with the best [...]
McDawg
April 8th, 2010
8:18 am
you need a 4-5 star offensive and defensive Line and you need mental and physcial toughness-not sure the ratings can reflect those qualities
Jake
April 8th, 2010
8:26 am
Great coaches take good players and make great players from them. Teams win championships, individual players don’t. I’m like you Tony, I don’t pay much attention to the ratings of kids coming out of High School.
Tim Tebow
April 8th, 2010
8:34 am
Thanks Tony
armenchuck
April 8th, 2010
8:52 am
Greg you are right about the UK players, but your making Tony’s point for him In a perfect world the UK players reach their potential in college. This is the real world. Tony reports and bases his columns on facts (things that have really happened), not could have or should have happened. Think how different the college football landscape would be if the media was somehow required to report that way. The comment that has stuck with the most this week is Duke’s Coach K saying, “it isn’t possible to have a Butler with the BCS” and “the BCS is a monopoly”. I dislike Coach K but I respect the truth.
Morrus
April 8th, 2010
8:56 am
Vote out the incumbents and start over
SimpleDawg
April 8th, 2010
9:13 am
The QB at a SEC school or any other major conference football school must have a certain level of skill to be productive. I submit that the skill level required to be successful and to guide a winning and/or championship team rises and falls with the level of talent which surrounds him.
A great team can overcome or disguise a QB’s weaknesses with superior play at other positions. Conversely, a great QB can appear to be fairly average without talented players supporting him.
Football, more than any of the other major sports, requires performance and cohesion from many players in order to be consistent and successful. The choreography required to sustain successful performance makes football the most difficult sport to coach and makes building and maintaining a successful team ( program ) a year round endeavor.
The sum of the parts is more important than one or two of the parts.
Eric
April 8th, 2010
9:24 am
Tim who? He never beat Auburn. War Eagle!
Woolly Butts
April 8th, 2010
9:28 am
I’m amazed at how Tim Tebow gets credit for winning two national championships, when he was a reserve as a freshman. Chris Leak won one, and Tebow won one.
OK, I'll ask again...
April 8th, 2010
9:29 am
…where is all of the moral disgust, righteous indignation, and front page coverage in the AJC, on Sports Center/TMZ/Inside Addition/CNN/MSN/NBC/ABC/CBS, etc minute by minute coverage of Tiki Barber leaving his pregnant wife for a 23 year old intern with whom he has been having outside of marriage relations?
JB
April 8th, 2010
9:29 am
Biggest non surprise this year will be the play of Aaron Murray of Georgia. Three reasons, a big, experienced veteran Offensive line returning with depth, two ” above average running backs” and a pretty good passing game installed years ago by Mark Richt , a pretty good WR in AJ and two monster pass catching tight ends. 9 wins in 2010 on the downside and 11 on the up. Georgia will be fine at QB. The offense will be called different this year with a new DC and us not being behind 2-4 TD’s, thus making it playable to work the game plan vs. fire drill mode after the first quarter. GATA.
Worm
April 8th, 2010
9:33 am
Tony, You’d have to put Chris Leak in that 5 star grouping.
JB
April 8th, 2010
9:35 am
I feel helpless to help in November. I have Zaxby Chamblis and Paul Broun as my senator and congressman, both great guys. I guess I will target a couple of high profile races elsewhere and send $$$……………..Please vote Nov. 2nd.
Pago Pago Trojan
April 8th, 2010
9:40 am
I could care less about an UGA qb going to the NFL. Just WIN the SEC once!!
Otto
April 8th, 2010
9:45 am
McDawg, Tell that to CMR. UGA has 3 Elite 11 QBs and an OL that is always being patchd up. CMR even signed another QB last yr to make it 4 QBs on the team.
% star QB needed? I agree with Tony on the ratings. Graham Harrell was grabbing all the headlines but went to the CFL. John Parker from Bama was a game manager but was signed by the Falcons. Greene may not have had a great NFL career but he was on a NFL team too.
GatorGuy
April 8th, 2010
9:45 am
Worm is right. Chris Leak was as highly recruited as anyone outside of Tim Tebow over the last 10 years.
GTFan1
April 8th, 2010
9:54 am
But will Tebow make a good pro quarterback?
http://thesportsdebates.com/category/tsd/the-tim-tebow-as-a-pro-qb-debate/
ATL Dawg, ya dig?
April 8th, 2010
10:10 am
Matt Stafford- best QB arm of his generation, elite physical tools, 5 star all-american, first pick in the draft. Interception machine for two years and otherwise underwhelming in his third. There’s just no correlation b/w what the NFL wants (physical tools to master timing routes), Scouting services grade for (physical tools as measured by hght/wght/40 and performances at camps), and college qb’s need to do (manage the game and inspire their teammates)
BG
April 8th, 2010
10:25 am
Tebow is a 4th or 5th round pick.
gcs
April 8th, 2010
10:30 am
You may recall when Tennessee won the National Championship in 1998 that their QB was Tee Martin (5th round).
Who was the Vols 1997 starter who did NOT win a National Championship? Some guy named Peyton Manning.
.
HanDAWG
April 8th, 2010
10:32 am
Tebow and DJ Shockley each won only one SEC Title as a starting quarterback, and each also won only one SEC Title as a backup / part-time player. Is TEBOW really one of the greatest ever? If so, why did he go 1 of 3 in winning SEC Titles as a starter and mostly sit on the bench as a Freshman. The to-my-mind greatly underachieving Matthew Stafford was 1-1 versus Tebow in head-to-head match-ups – GEORGIA blew Tebow out the year he won the Heisman. BTW: UGA has never had a losing record versus UF in football. Mighty Gators … is it all over for you? http://www.bighairyblawg.com.
read n black
April 8th, 2010
10:36 am
ATL Dawg, you are right. Not only was Stafford responsible for alot of intercetions and subpar performances but he never won a National Championship or an SEC championship. He has one win against Florida as his trophy and that is all. However, he is extremely talented, probably more so on the professional level – although we have yet to see. Likewise, Tebow was an outstanding college quarterback for many reasons, including reasons outside his athletic ability. However, I have always said that he would never see a snap in the NFL. Now, I will most likely be wrong about that, I am still confident he will never be a starting quarterback in the NFL, and, most likely, will not start at anything. College and NFL styles are as different as honesty and O’bama.
Salinsa
April 8th, 2010
10:37 am
A team obviously doesn’t need a 5 star QB to win a championship. That list shows the two most impt components of a national champion is excellent defense and a good running game. Having said that, having a 5 star or a national QB recruit whose play on the field matches the expectations coming out of high school, only makes your team that much better. Anyway, Tony, you said you have no idea what type of recruits those championship level QBs were. Here’s a list I got from rivals and looking over the internet for the player who predated rivals:
2000 – Josh Heupel: not a big recruit at all. started at Weber state. Transferred to Snow Junior college then ended up at Oklahoma
2001 – Ken Dorsey: He was a national recruit that was named to several top 100 lists All America teams as a high School senior
2002 – Craig Krenzel: Wasn’t a big time recruit
2003 – Matt Mauck: Not a big time recruit at all
2004 – Matt Leinert: National Big time recruit
2005 – Vince Young: Top recruit in the country
2006 – Chris Leak: #2 ranked QB recruit in the country
2007 – Matt Flynn: 4 star 16th ranked QB
2008 – Tebow: 5 star QB recruit
2009 – McElroy: 3 star 11th ranked QB
HanDAWG
April 8th, 2010
10:45 am
That’s what I thought, Gay-Turds? No Great White Bull Tebow or Spurrier-system tricks to save you from a pre-1990 regression. BAMA showed you what SEC is really about. Running game and defense.
Ugaclassof2004
April 8th, 2010
10:56 am
Tony,
I agree with you somewhat. I think teams have been able to win championships without stud QB’s in the past. But I’ll also tell you that knowing that you have a great QB works wonders for a team. To give you an example, the Baltimore Ravens for years were carried by the defense while they had crap to work with at QB( Trent Dilfer, Kyle Boller etc.) Sure the won a Super Bowl with their stud defense, but then they became one dimensional. When one side of the ball has to carry an entire team, those teams eventually get exposed. Now that the Ravens have Flacco( who is young but super talented), it takes some of the pressure off the defense. Now they can win games in a variety of ways as oppossed to playing a field posession game.In the NFL, the teams that go deep in the playoffs on a regular basis are the teams that have solid QB play( Colts, Pats, Steelers etc.).And the teams that get inconsistent play from the QB position are the teams that get eliminated in the first couple of rounds( Cowboys, Eagles, Chargers etc.)
This is why I think Bama will get exposed if they don’t get a better QB than McElroy. He had one decent game against Florida, but other than that he’s a manager. John Parker Wilson was no Joe Namath, but he could at least get the ball 40 yards down field. Julio Jones is just too big of an offensive weapon for Saban to just utilize him as a down field blocker.
You can win championships without a top notch QB, but for consistent success, you have to have great play from the QB position.
bull-gator
April 8th, 2010
11:02 am
What the heck is a hanDAWG?
#1 BAMA FAN
April 8th, 2010
11:09 am
No need for a five star QB. College footbal is the ultimate team sport and it is about the running game, defense, coaching and team speed. Discipline plays a big part account of the age of the players. You need your QB to be a winner and a game technican who can carry out a game plan. Bama is a poster child for this formula. RTR
SEC East Headlines – 4/8/10 « MrSEC.com
April 8th, 2010
11:30 am
[...] of Tebow, if the former Gator quarterback isn’t a first-round draft pick, this writer says it doesn’t mean that anyone at Florida “failed.”8. Billy Donovan said he isn’t worried about the fact that five transfers in two years might [...]
help, I live in Ga
April 8th, 2010
11:33 am
Phat Phil Phulmer had a 13 year stretch that included 3 Four year starters at QB–Manning, Clausen, and Ainge. Their first names don’t matter because they all had famous families. That left one year, that he had a one year starter, and he won the national championship. Two points can be drawn from this. One–it takes a little luck to win a national championship. And two–I think you have to have a string of strong quarterbacks to build a national powerhouse. You can’t be a national power, and have a bad quarterback for more than a year or two. Michigan has always had quarterbacks with tons of potential, but no real passing attack type offenses. But they’ve always taken care of the football enough to walk over the Big Weak Ten and be in the big picture. Last note on Phat Phil. When his run of good QBs ran out, so did his luck and the programs prestige. The rest is history. Ugly history.
DG
April 8th, 2010
11:38 am
Colleges recruit QBs that fit their systems. UGA will not lose many QB recruits to UF or GA Tech because they run different systems. If Tebow would have committed to Alabama there would be no way we are talking about him being one of best college FB players of all time. That said, if Tebow sees himself as an NFL caliber QB, and Meyer brought in Loeffler to help him, then what does that say about Tebow not making an effort (until AFTER he graduates) to change his throwing motion or improve his timing & accuracy? After being a starter for 3 years and with UFs soft NC schedule there really is no excuse. Loved him as college player, but he’s really a 4th or 5th rnd pick at best, but he’ll get overdrafted.
5IML
April 8th, 2010
11:45 am
UGAclass,
Your comments about BAMA make absolutely no sense. Bama will get exposed? When? We just went 14-0 and won the BCS and SEC championships with McElroy. The previous year we were 12-2 with JPW. It doesn’t seem like an underwhelming QB is really an issue for us.
But since you’re worried about my QB situation, there are three four-stars (AJ McCarron, Phillip Sims, and Star Jackson) sitting behind McElroy. Each is more physically gifted than McElroy. I hope that makes you feel better.
BrokeBackJacket
April 8th, 2010
11:50 am
@ help, i live in Ga:
Take I-75 north or south, I-20 west, or I-85 north. Keep driving….your problem will be solved!
You are welcome!
#2 BAMA FAN
April 8th, 2010
11:51 am
Bama #1 said it best good running game and very strong defense wins a lot of football games. The 1992 NC Alabama team had the best defense in the SEC and country and boat raced Miami in the
Sugar Bowl 34-13!! The crimson tide had a qb named Jay Barker who was a game manager who become a very good qb in 94 and who helped beat the dawgs in the last minute of the ball game!!
RTR
termigator
April 8th, 2010
11:56 am
HanDAWG, Tebow and the “gaytors” sure owned your leg humping asses.
#2 BAMA FAN
April 8th, 2010
11:59 am
AJ McCarron is going to be the best qb Bama has had since Namath and Stabler. I may have the crimson glasses on to much but the kid is going to be a stud!! RTR
Halsey
April 8th, 2010
12:00 pm
Part of the reason players get 5 stars is because lots of schools are after them. People get it reveresed: Prospects aren’t chased by schools because Rivals.com or Scout.com gives them 5 stars. It’s the other way around.
Oh, and Chris Leak was a 5 star recruit.
gtfanfrom1951
April 8th, 2010
12:05 pm
who care how go a pro a QB will be? just win at college that’s most important!!!
gtfanfrom1951
April 8th, 2010
12:05 pm
good sorry
Jaydogg13
April 8th, 2010
12:13 pm
Everybody has to realize that winning a nation championship requires a TEAM….There, i said it!!!! Example…Gino Toretta…He was a Heisman trophy winner and SUCKED as a pro quarterback…What are my exampoles of good QB’s…Jow montana and Tom Brady, who BOTH were picked in the 6th round…Brady didn’t win a NC…Joe MAY have…Can’t remember…But both of them were EXCELLENT Field Generals….Let it be known that although QB’s are good, they are not the WHOLE TEAM…. Let’s really be focused and realize that if a QB has talent, it can be used…But if you don’t have the correct pieces, Doesn’t matter…Remember Barry Sanders!!!!!!!!
TommyP
April 8th, 2010
12:13 pm
“Look at Kentucky’s basketball team. Look at Duke’s basketball team. Yesterday five Kentucky players (four freshmen) said they would enter the NBA Draft and all will do well. But Duke cut down the nets in Indianapolis. Duke has really good players but not five NBA draft picks. The intangibles matter when it comes to winning championships.”
What a horrible point, Tony. Kentucky had how many freshmen playing??????? 1st year at Kentucky for Calipari, I’d say Kentucky did pretty well.
Let’s see….Duke had done absolutely nothing in the tournament for how many years before this one? I guess they overachieved with their “intangibles” just to get that far, huh?
Duke has probably more All-Americans on its roster than any team in the country on an annual basis.
That was a HORRIBLE analogy.
JASon
April 8th, 2010
12:24 pm
Your article lost credibility when you started talking about Tim Tebow. Here’s a guy who isn’t going in the first round, may not even go in the second round, and will never amount to anything in the NFL. Why did you even mention him
termigator
April 8th, 2010
12:33 pm
JASon, he probably mentioned him because Tony is a Dawg and knows Tebow owned your humping Dawgs.
Otto
April 8th, 2010
12:35 pm
Help, Phat Phil rose and fell when he had a good OC mostly Cutcliff.
Salinsa, McElroy was a bit under rated out of High School mostly thanks to only starting his Senior year. Chase Daniel was the starter he sat behind. Good job recruiting by Bama.
bamaguy
April 8th, 2010
12:58 pm
Alabama’s last two National Championships were won with no-name quarterbacks, Barker in 1992 and McElroy in 2009. It appears, in the college, it is much more important how they play as a team than individual ability. I recall sometime during last season in an interview Julio Jones said “If they double team me, that leaves someone else open and we move the ball.” That is the kind of attitude that wins in college ball, and do doubt it will not hurt Julio as a pro prospect.
termigator
April 8th, 2010
1:01 pm
agreed bamaguy, Tebow was a freak, but what you really need is a manager at QB and McElroy proved it. Good job.
Joseph
April 8th, 2010
1:10 pm
Half of the QB’s on that list were 5 stars coming out of highschool. Chris Leak was a 5 star. I like the point you are trying to make with this article… But you don’t make a point at all.
John Q.Public
April 8th, 2010
1:12 pm
What I find so amusing about the names on that list is that while All were great in college they all suck in the pros!!! Next one to suck Tebow!!
Ugaclassof2004
April 8th, 2010
1:12 pm
5IML,
You clearly didn’t read my entire post. There are medications out there for ADD you know.
I didn’t say that teams can’t win without a great QB. Obviously they do as Alabama just did. But when teams win a championship, they will receive everyone’s best shot the next year( just ask Florida). And if they don’t want to be upset then they need to work on their weaknesses. Last year Alabama was able to go 14-0, mainly do to the strength of their running game and defense. But eventually teams will be able to move the ball on the defense and when they do the offense, and especially the QB, has to step up. Let me ask you this: if Alabama were down 20-0 to an opponent going into the 4th quarter( and don’t think that it can’t happen), do you really have confidence in McElroy to put the team on his back ala John Elway and lead a comeback?
The other point I was trying to make in my previous post, is that Alabama has one of the best possession receivers in the game in Julio Jones. And with teams looking to stop Ingram next season, Saban has got to find a way to get him more involved. Maybe one of these new QB’s can get the ball to Julio better.
Larry
April 8th, 2010
1:13 pm
A talented line is equally important, if not more so than a 5-star quarterback. Look what walk-on Kerwin Bell did behind Florida’s Great Wall. Does he have that kind of success with a middling line? FSU had 5-star QB’s throughout the oughts but no kind of line at all, and look what happened to those guys.
killcasualfan
April 8th, 2010
1:15 pm
Poor QB play has been rampant throughout the SEC the past couple of years. For example, in 2008, besides Tebow, it was the worst collection of QB’s in SEC history, which makes the league’s defensive stats a mirage. This is especially shown by games OUT OF CONFERENCE against mostly below average teams. Thus the counter-argument that its “simply great SEC defense” causing their QB’s to look bad is nonsense.
Remember the bizarre Auburn v. Miss. St. game where both teams combined to score 5 points. SEC fan blithely claimed that was just great defense… Then weeks later, reality set in when the Auburn defense got blasted by West Virginia and the Miss. St. defense got blasted by Georgia Tech, who also put up 45 pts. in their win over Georgia.
Georgia’s Stafford, the leagues #2 rated QB, would have ranked #7 in the Big12.
2008….
Tennessee – Phil Fulmer fired over debacle at QB spot. Scored 13 pts. on
Northern-Illinois and 7pts. in a loss at home to Wyoming.
Auburn – Offensive Coordinator fired in Sept. due to failed transition to the Spread. Head Coach Tubberville resigned.
South Carolina – Scored 23 pts. on Wofford and 26 pts. on UAB.
LSU – Scored 3 pts. in 1st half v. Troy
Kentucky – Scored 20 pts. on Middle Tennesse State
Miss.St. – Head Coach fired. Scored 14 pts. in loss to LA Tech and 7 pts. in loss to GA Tech.
Arkansas – Scored 28 pts. on Louisiana-Monroe and Western Illinois.
Vanderbilt- Scored 7 pts. in loss to Duke
Ole Miss – 0 TD’s & 2 Int’s v. Samford.
Bama – Scored 6 offensive pts. v. Tulane. Tulane had a 2 to 1 yardage advantage
Georgia – Preseason #1 has been most disappointing team this season. Stafford, the SEC’s #2 rated QB, would rank #7 in the Big12.
Cracker Jacket
April 8th, 2010
1:16 pm
To win basketball championships…have a few white boys who can shoot the 3’s and defend to go with those backboard slammers! Wish Hewitt could figure that out!!
termigator
April 8th, 2010
1:21 pm
killcasualfan, agreed with most of your post except the last about Stafford ranking #7 in the Big 12. the Big 12 doesn’t play defense, example Sam Bradford against UF in Championship.
daniel
April 8th, 2010
1:23 pm
Ok Tony I completely agree with your philosiphy here in this article. Anyone who has followed college sports for many years would to. College football is all about working as a team to achieve an ultimate goal. the best quarterbacks are Managers of the game. they don’t make mistakes. Its more in important for quarterbacks in college to not lose the game than to win the game. I don’t believe that 18 to 22 year old kids are capable of handling the responsibilty of trying to win the game. it becomes to much and they always seem to break under that pressure.
Ugaclassof2004
April 8th, 2010
1:23 pm
bamaguy
Jay Barker wasn’t that bad. I thought he was a pretty good QB for ya’ll actually.
Not Disappointed!
April 8th, 2010
1:24 pm
Great articles!
killcasualfan
April 8th, 2010
1:24 pm
termigator, you must have meant to say the SEC doesn’t play defense, example Tebow against OU in the Championship being held to their lowest scoring output all season.
termigator
April 8th, 2010
1:29 pm
No kill not at all, both teams had great defenses, but Big 12 teams except for Tx and Ok have poor offenses.
Bama man
April 8th, 2010
1:34 pm
Please let me say Greg McElroy lost one game as a starter in high school and college combined. The kid know how to win and is a winner in like. His parents taught him some moral. Saben will not tolerate thugs,
Bama man
April 8th, 2010
1:35 pm
I forgot to proof read. Careless me, I’m old. Ha
Ugaclassof2004
April 8th, 2010
1:36 pm
I really think everyone is underestimating what a great QB can do for a team. Yes Tee Martin won the National Championship for the Vols( with a lot of luck along the way might I add). But if you ask me who’d I rather have as my QB for 3-4 seasons, I’ll take Peyton Manning anyday of the week! It’s not Peyton’s fault that Danny Wurrfel and Co. were consistently hanging over 30 points on the Vols and everyone else in the mid 90’s. The Vols didn’t lose because Peyton choked; they lost because the Gators were really freakin good!
SOGADOG
April 8th, 2010
1:41 pm
Well said. My only problem with Tebow is the media gave him too much of the credit and lime light at the expense of his teamates. Florida has been on a roll because they play great defense and they have rockets like Percy Harvin running the ball. Tebow is a great person and player, but he and his coach are drama queens. I also think Meyer focuses too much on Tebow and too little on his other players. I agree that a player who is team oriented, with a good heart, mind, and work ethic (Tebow) is much more likely to win a college championship than one who is auditioning for the NFL (Stafford).
5IML
April 8th, 2010
1:49 pm
UGAclass,
Regarding your first post, I did read it thoroughly. And it still makes no sense. The main reason is because you assume, for any team, last year’s team is the same as this year’s team. Which, in almost all instances, is not true. Let me point out the error of your reasoning using Florida’s 2008 and 2009 teams. Florida’s 2009 team returned most to the same personnel but without Harvin, Murphy, and, most importantly, Mullen. So, while the 2009 team appeared almost identical on paper, it was vastly different. You saw that in the 2009 SECCG and throughout the 2009 season. BAMA got better but Florida got worse. BAMA’s win last year was no reflection on the 2008 Gators. A team’s weaknesses would have to be exploited during the same season to be considered “exposed.”
Regarding your second post, if BAMA is down by 20 in the fourth quarter, we lose regardless of who the QB is. And that goes for Elway when he was at Stanford or McElroy at Bama.
termigator
April 8th, 2010
1:50 pm
agree with both UGA class of 04 and SOGADOG. I am ready for the next chapter in the Gator book, time to move on.
Ugaclassof2004
April 8th, 2010
1:52 pm
daniel
“I don’t believe that 18 to 22 year old kids are capable of handling the responsibilty of trying to win the game. it becomes to much and they always seem to break under that pressure.”
I’m not sure I agree with that. I’ve seen plenty of 18-22 year kids handle the pressure of putting a team on their back and winning if they’re talented enough and are comfortable in the offense. Some guys shy away from that responsibility while others thrive. It’s the same way in the pros, some guys excel in the 2 min. drill situations while others don’t. It’s not a maturity thing. Some guys can just handle that pressure better than others.
Otto
April 8th, 2010
1:52 pm
I wouldn’t say Barker was a no name. He just came up to the top in 1 year. QBs are usually recruited their Jr and schools have their targets set going into the Sr year. McElroy ws undervalued as he only started his Sr year.
SEC FANATIC
April 8th, 2010
1:53 pm
Tony, While I do believe that an SEC QB has to have physical ability yes, it is so hard for anybody to evaluate the mental part and future leadership qualities of a high school kid. That is why rankings are so many times off the mark. Obviously, with a guy like Tim Tebow, it is kind of a no brainer, but Tim is one of those rare exceptions to the rule.You think of the Bama QB who no one was really talking about and yet he guides his team to a NC, who fit the system perfect, had good coaching and plenty of talent around him.. Fitting the system as well as having a coach who can develop the player and instill confidence are just as big of a factor. It will be interesting to see how things shake out for John Brantley of Florida because here is a guy with the big arm and unbelievable potential. But will he have the leadership skills in the foxhole when things go bad and when the real bullets fly and things get intense in a big game? There will be a time when he will have to take the reigns and lead that team down the field in that big game.Of course, like the Bama QB, he will also have the advantage of tremendous talent around him but his ceiling will be still be determined on the question…can he lead? And therein lies the burden and where he will be compared most to the mighty Tim.
Delbert D.
April 8th, 2010
1:53 pm
Nope. Buck Belue and Shawn Jones, cases in point.
Big XII
April 8th, 2010
1:54 pm
Young was a 5 star; Leak a 4 star; Flynn a 4 star; Tebow a 5 star; and EcElroy a 3 star.
Otto
April 8th, 2010
1:55 pm
Correct Barker in the beginning of the psot should be McElroy
Otto
April 8th, 2010
1:56 pm
urgh Correction. Beginning should read McElroy not Barker
Delbert D.
April 8th, 2010
2:01 pm
“If they stayed around for a couple more years so they had the same level of experience as most of Duke’s primary players, UK would have taken Duke and everyone else to pieces. I’m not a fan of Duke or UK, but that’s just a fact.”
Facts are things that have already happened, simplifying it for you a bit. Did you make it through college without knowing that?
help, I live in Ga
April 8th, 2010
2:03 pm
I thought McElroy and his undefeated record through HS and college was a bunch of crap because he sucked for so long. But you know, when they really needed him in the big game, (SEC Championship–The Nat Champ was not as big) he stepped up like a winner is supposed to. Part of that credit goes to Saban, the coach of the decade–and I’m not a bama fan–and part of it goes to a winning mentality. Hate to say it, but Tebow had that too. And Butler. Go Bulldogs.
Dennis
April 8th, 2010
2:04 pm
Defense wins championships. Example = Trent Dilfer/Baltimore Ravens.
Delbert D.
April 8th, 2010
2:05 pm
Otto – Do you mean John Parker Wilson?
ReptilesRule
April 8th, 2010
2:11 pm
Tony, you hit the nail on the head…the head coaches job is to WIN games and insure the success of THE program for the SCHOOL, not to be a developmental coach for the pros. I’m sure that when Jeremy Foley hired Urban Meyer back in 2005, he wasn’t thinking “now there’s a guy who can put our players in the NFL and get them big contracts!” No, all of that is simply a by-product of having a successful program. That is why UF will have so many players drafted this year, not because they were coached to play in the New England or Dallas system but because they had such a lhigh evel of success. Whether Tim or Joe Haden are ultimately successful in the league will be up to Tim and Joe Haden, not Urban Meyer. After Florida’s spring practice, a reporter jokedly asked Urban Meyer what he thought about the new QB John Brantley’s “mechanics”. Urban lightheartedly shot back, “I have no idea, I just know about winning”
killerJ
April 8th, 2010
2:14 pm
Its a team effort, no . Proven, big is not always better, just look at that little trade school on north avenue. THWG!!!!
joe taxpayer
April 8th, 2010
2:16 pm
Easy schdule, good o-line and a good defense.
killcasualfan
April 8th, 2010
2:31 pm
termigator, but again the reverse is true. you can’t have it both ways. SEC teams have weak offenses, except for Florida and whichever other SEC team has an offense that year. This was shown by the numerous examples I provided from 2008 against weak out of conference opponents. It’s easy to look good on defense when you are playing below average QB’s
termigator
April 8th, 2010
2:36 pm
How have your top 2 Qb’s played against the top 2 SEC defenses the last 2 years killfan?
Joe
April 8th, 2010
2:50 pm
Couple of things here….first, its a no brainer….UGA has won championships with a “good” QB that protected the football and a great running game. UGA has had what would be considered 2 “great” QBs and could not even win the SEC East. Stafford was a wasted recruiting pick- we should have gone after others.
Second, when will the articles about Florida and Teblow stop. it’s history…you sportswriters are going to have to find some other player at UF to fall in love with….
Bluto
April 8th, 2010
2:55 pm
Here is the big difference:
NFL : You win the championship by being the last team to win
NCAA: You can win the championship by being the first ranked team to lose, and then have someone vote you the champ. Even if another team had never lost a game all season long….
ga gator
April 8th, 2010
2:56 pm
Joe, agreed ready to move on.
Old Guy
April 8th, 2010
2:56 pm
Think about this for a minute. My observations are that it is dead on. Pepper Rogers once said that to win in college football the proper order of importance is 1) recruiting 2) officiating 3) coaching.
Later all.
DeafGary
April 8th, 2010
3:01 pm
I agree.
In 1980, when UGA won it all, their quarterback was Buck Belue, who went on to play semi-pro baseball.
It was their halfback, Herschel Walker, who went on to pro football success.
ga gator
April 8th, 2010
3:06 pm
DeafGary and we were sure glad Hershel left early, one of the best RB’s of all time.
SAL
April 8th, 2010
3:08 pm
You don’t need a five star quarterback to win the National Championship. However, you must have a quarterback who is smart, manages the game well, and doesn’t make too many mistakes. Since you have featured Greg McElroy (Alabama), let’s analyze him as a QB. He was not the best by any stretch of the imagination, but, he threw 17 touchdown passes with only 4 interceptions. He also had the Heisman trophy winning running back to balance him out, not to mention the best defense in the nation. So no, you don’t need a perfect quarterback, but you do need a smart quarterback, a good running game, and a defense that can keep you in the game.
#1 BAMA FAN
April 8th, 2010
3:15 pm
Hey killcasualfan….as long as the SEC Champ plays a Big 12 Champ for the National Championship, our trophy cases will continue to grow. RTR
C. Leak
April 8th, 2010
3:28 pm
Tebow is overrated, but don’t tell coach Meyer I said so.
B. Belue
April 8th, 2010
3:30 pm
I also went on to play in the USFL, as did Herschel. Just to set the record straight.
Bulldog59
April 8th, 2010
4:29 pm
TB, love your column, but couldn’t disagree more on this one. Did the UF staff let Tebow down? No question they did! If they HAD developed Tebow properly, scouts would not be talking about fixing his mechanics, release point, etc. If they HAD developed Tebow properly, Jeremy Fowler’s column would have never been written. If they HAD developed Tebow properly, and Fowler’s still writes his article, Meyer would not explode publicly proving the underlying message in the article; Meyer and Co. used Tebow for all they could get. In the end, it wasn’t too bad for either side. Tebow got a Heisman, UF got a couple of BCS Championships, but it cost Tebow millions, Stafford type money ($42M and counting) over the next 4-6 years. Great kid, and he will be successful, but he will have to work to NOT be compared to Heath Shuler, when, with the right instruction, he could have come close to be mentioned with Peyton Manning.
Dubious
April 8th, 2010
4:47 pm
Barker was the QB for Bama when they won something like 28 games in a row from 91 to 93. He qbed one of the greatest upsets in college football when Bama throttled Canes 34-13, though he only completed a couple of passes. He was 5th in the Heisman , won the Unitas Award, and was drafted in the NFL and was a back up in the NFL for 2 -3 years. Hardly a no name.
Charlie Bama
April 8th, 2010
6:04 pm
Tony — You’re right; a superstar QB is not a requirement for winning in general, and not even for winning a National Championship. In a sense, most teams can overcome any mediocre levels of talent in any position by identifying and developing respectably-talented players who are willing to work their fingers to the bone until the last daily practice exercise has ended and until the last play of every single game. Bama’s Jay Barker, JP Wilson, and (now) G. McElroy are great examples, QB-wise. Now, what’s really cool is when the super talented guys are ALSO exhaustingly hard workers. Tim Tebow is a great example of that deadly combo. You gotta love the guy–self-driven works well for him. On the flip side, laziness or a ‘good ‘nuf’ attitude will land you in sub-par programs with sketchy records, like . . . . the Orange Killbillies.
Tide Rising
April 8th, 2010
6:12 pm
Why stop in the 2000s. Go back and look at the 80s and 90s and you’ll see boatloads of qbs that won national titles that never made it in the pros.
90s- Barker at Bama in 92, Tee Martin at UT in 98, Gino Torretta at Miami in 91, Tommie Frazier at Nebraska in 94 and 95, Eric Crouch or Scott Frost at Nebraska in 97 never made it in the pros, Danny Wuerful was great at UF but never made it as a pro, Shawn Jones at GT in 90, Charlie Ward at FSU never even played pro ball, the 99 qb Chris Weinke played shortly I think in the pros but was never a great starter. Brian Griese of co champion Michigan in 1997 was ok in the pros but that’s about it for the 90s qbs who won national titles in college. Can anyone else think of a great qb in the 90s that went on to become a good pro qb who won a national title in college?
80s- Buck Belue, the Clemson qb in 81, the BYU qb in 1984( Robbie Bosco I think) never made it big time in the pros, Penn State’s qbs in 82(Todd Blackledge may have made it briefly in the NFL) and 86(John no name was the 86 qb for Penn State), Steve Walsh at Miami never made it big in the pros(Maimi qb in either 87 or 89 I think), The Notre Dame qb in 88 never made it in the pros.
Bernie Kosar of Miami in 83 is the only national title winning qb I can think of that had a great pro career. Jim Kelly also but he never won a national title or really even came close. Maybe one other great Miami qb I’m leaving out.
Other than Kosar in 83 I can’t think of one qb who won the national title in college who also had a decent pro career. Brian Griese has had a lengthy but not great career so maybe you could put griese in there too. If I remember correctly Kosar wasn’t even a highly recruited qb because he had a good but not great arm and awkward throwing motion. He was certainly no 5 star qb, more likely a 3 star.
Can anyone think of any other qb who was a 5 star qb in high school that won a national title and then had a good pro career?
ReptilesRule
April 8th, 2010
6:28 pm
Wow, what a post Bulldog59!!…At the next Gator Booster meeting, I am personally gonna ask the coaches if they could please put a stop to these championships and start developing our players for the NFL instead?! I’m sure that will draw alot of applause…Your post is about the dumbest thing I’ve read in a long time…basically the heck with the program, go get these guys a big fat contract! And believe me, Tim will get his chance to make plenty of $$$$ as will about 6 or 7 other Gators this year…
Lord of the Lizards
April 8th, 2010
6:34 pm
You know, I hear all of this Ga and some other national criticism of how Meyer and UF didn’t do Tebow right by not properly preparing him for the NFL, but I dont hear any praise or conversation here on how the UF coaches took a high school QB…Joe Haden…converted him a shutdown college DB and into a top 10 pick with a multi million dollar contract.
Tide Rising
April 8th, 2010
6:41 pm
I would have to concur that bulldog59s post is one of the dumbest I’ve ever seen. Some folks will criticize for the pure sake of it. The idea that the university of Florida is there solely for Tim Tebow and to prepare him for a fat NFL contract is ludicrous. And as the lord of lizards comments the criticism is unwarranted given the gator’s success in not just making Haden the top cb in the draft but in developing several other players like Dunlap, etc for the NFL.
Lord of the Lizards
April 8th, 2010
6:48 pm
And to Bulldog59, and all of Matthew Staffords 42 million George Washingtons still won’t buy him a college championship. If I was a Dawg, I wouldn’t be all that happy that Stafford supposedly had all this talent (according to the NFL) then got a fat contract but contibuted so little to the championship legacy of UGA. In fact, he contibuted NOTHING! Not even an SEC East Div title!!!!! I’m sure he doesn’t give a flip though, he probably just wanted to get the hell out of there so he could start counting his money…
Tide Rising
April 8th, 2010
6:57 pm
Lord of the Lizards,
I’ll just say “ouch” on behalf of the dawg fans.
dawgfan
April 8th, 2010
7:08 pm
To win a national title you need great defense and a solid O line, something Matthew Stafford rarely had. I continue to be amazed at how my fellow dawg fans and others throw this guy under the bus. Some clown even called his 3rd year “underwhelming.”. 3,500 yards and 25 TDs (school record) are underwhelmimg. Sure thing nimwit. We’ll be lucky to get a talent of this calibre again if this is the way they’ll be treated.
Yeah, the NFL and CFB are totally different Tony. In CFB, Tebow could get away with his weak arse throwing motion. In the NFL, DBs will read it like a book. There is a reason the NFL obsesses over things like that. I think they might know what they’re doing.
Thanks.
athdog
April 8th, 2010
8:04 pm
AJ McCarron is going to be the best qb Bama has had since Namath and Stabler…
#2Bama…that’s high praise, being compared to two of the biggest drunks ever to come out of Tuskeeloogie
athdog
April 8th, 2010
8:08 pm
Lord of the Lizards…I hate to say it but I agree with your Stafford comments. Physical tools galore, never lived up to the hype. Overrated? I think so.
Tide Rising
April 8th, 2010
8:12 pm
athdog,
AJ is tearing it up in spring practices and scrimmages. He earned the backup qb last year as a redshirt and if McElroy couldn’t have played in the bcs title game McCarron was fully prepared. I would say he’s a little farther along right now than Murray or Mettenberger. 21 or 28,229 yds, 3 tds, 0 ints. We’re gonna be set at qb for awhile to come with him and now 5 star Phillip Sims on campus as an early enrollee.
As for you calling Namath and Stabler drunks. Well, at least those 2 drunks have won super bowls which is more than I can say for Frank Tarkenton or any other Georgia qb. When you can accomplish more than those 2 drunks please let me know.
daddo
April 8th, 2010
8:48 pm
Ah, those two drunks not only have two super bowl rings but they also each won a national championship. Give me a drunk any time.
Lord of the Lizards
April 8th, 2010
8:55 pm
I’ll drink to that!
jumbeautiger
April 8th, 2010
9:22 pm
As a kid I was a huge fan of Stabler when he played for the Raiders. The time he fumbled the ball forward which led to winning a game at the end was classic.
When I was at LSU I met Stabler at a bar while I was on Spring break in Gulf Shores.
I met Namath at a Tampa hotel pool in 1989 when LSU was playing Syracuse in the bowl there.
Both were very nice guys and if they are drunks, so what.
Geaux Tigers
Go SEC
messin with sasquatch
April 8th, 2010
10:05 pm
think it just points out the difference between college ball and nfl. thank god we have college football. the nfl is usually boring, and I only have an interest during the postseason.
i guess its nice to make a buck for a game you enjoy, but breaking into the nfl and being successful in it is limited to a few. note the usual hesiman busts.
the movie “everybody’s all-american” just about says it all for qb’s.
SEC fan
April 8th, 2010
10:26 pm
May we all drink to drunks who win championships everywhere. Weren’t Mickey Mantle and Babe Ruth drunks who won lots of World series?
#2 BAMA FAN
April 9th, 2010
4:41 am
Tide Rising, If your were a lawyer I would hire you in a new york minute!! As to Namath and Stabler being drunks Tiger Woods could not keep up if these guys in the bar or bedroom with the ladies in the
day!! RTR
Bulldog59
April 9th, 2010
8:16 am
L of the L, the POINT made by Fowler, which is known by the entire nation is, Meyer did not develop Tebow for the NFL. He simply let an unbelievable college player “do his thing.” Meyer is super-sensitive about this because he knows it is true and it is too late to fix it. As for Stafford, he didn’t cost UGA anything in terms of championships, that honor goes to Willie Martinez and our D staff. Finally, Stafford is a true Bulldog and has visited Athens and the team several times since he left UGA. Best of luck to Tebow, a fine young man, but he will see very limited opportunities and success in the NFL. Look for him to join the Danny Wuerffel ministries around 2015.
GATOR88
April 9th, 2010
12:20 pm
Wow-some of you people really think we are wrapped up in Tebow….while a great player, legacy, etc. he is now gone. I really don’t care too much what happens to him in the NFL. Whatever happens to him-he is gonna be alright. same as a whole lotta other players on the fringes of the NFL. This is the most overblown, irritating and irrelevant conversation that just won’t die until the 4/22 draft. Thank god and greyhoud Ron Zook is gone-go Urbanator..
Delbert D.
April 9th, 2010
4:47 pm
Best Georgia QBs: Fran Tarkenton and David Green.
scopesmonkey
April 9th, 2010
4:55 pm
I think that Ken Dorsey was also a blue-chipper.
Bulldog59
April 9th, 2010
9:46 pm
RR, like your UF buddy, you missed the point. I’ll try to speak slower and use small words…..many recruits are looking for a program to give them the best shot (highest draft possibility) in the NFL. Tebow’s shortcomings give other schools a recruiting tool against UF, even my UF buddies agree. Not to worry, Meyer will be gone soon, he can’t stand that Alabama is tops in the SEC now. The heart palpitations, the hospital stay, and reporter incident are just the beginning. Good luck with the 2 QB system in 2010, I’m sure that will woo a lot of future top QBs to UF. Nice touch with the DC bait-and-switch as well, I’m sure all the D recruits loved that (announcing the NEW DC is leaving, the DAY AFTER signing day.)
Bevo’s Daily Roundup – April 12, 2010 | goutlonghorns.com
April 12th, 2010
4:07 am
[...] you need a five-star quarterback to win it [...]
Urban Failed Tebow?
April 12th, 2010
5:59 pm
If Tebow doesn’t go in the 1st round, you have to admit Urban Meyer USED Tebow to get what he wanted, and did not align Tebow’s long term goals with his own. So yes, if that happens, he not only failed Tebow, he did somethign a father would never do–not get his son ready for the NFL.