NCAA must find another way on Bowden case

 

 

Florence, Ala.—Bobby Bowden has been a college football coach for 55 years. In that time his various football programs have never been hauled before the NCAA for cheating. Sure, some of his players have gotten into trouble with the law and that’s not good.  Yes, there have been various violations that every program goes through. That has happened to a lot of coaches. It comes with the territory.

But everybody involved in college football knows there is a difference between breaking the rules and cheating to gain a competitive advantage. No one has ever said publicly that Bowden bought players or gave them something of value to come to Tallahassee or Morgantown, or Howard College (now Samford) or South Georgia Junior College, where it all started for him.

That is why Bowden is troubled by the possibility that an NCAA Appeals Committee may eventually rule that 14 of his 382 career victories, second only to Penn State’s Joe Paterno at 383, will be “vacated” as punishment for an academic cheating scandal that involved 61 athletes (25 of them football players) at Florida State. The penalty as been appealed but if it stands, Paterno will win the race by default.

I had a chance to spend a couple of hours with Bobby Bowden and his sons Terry, Tommy, and Jeff on Tuesday. They had all come to Florence to help Terry, the new head coach at North Alabama, with his fund raising efforts for the football program.

Until now, Bobby Bowden has been low key about this whole thing. His attitude has been “what happens, happens.” But now, as his Hall of Fame career draws to a close, this matter has clearly disturbed his sense of what is right and wrong and, ultimately, fair to him and to Florida State.

“I’ve been coaching for 55 years and never been accused of cheating,” said Bowden. “And now we’re going to get punished like this for something we knew nothing about? And when we did find out about it we turned ourselves in. We did everything we were supposed to do. But somehow this just does not seem fair.”

The NCAA Committee on Infractions admits that there is no evidence that Bowden or any of his coaches were involved, had knowledge of, or condoned the process that allowed these students to cheat on an on-line course. Florida State discovered the problem, turned itself in, and immediately suspended all athletes involved. Those suspensions in football were for as many as four games.

 The infractions committee, thinking it was giving a lesser punishment than scholarship reductions, called for the games involving the athletes to be vacated, which means that they will be stricken from the record as if they were never played. But what the committee has done, perhaps unknowingly, is inject itself into the race to determine Division I-A football’s all-time winner.

Here is my advice to the NCAA: Find another way on this case.

What happened at Florida State should have never happened. It was sloppy. Florida State should be punished in some fashion. No argument here. But dock the school some scholarships. Fine them. Ban them from TV (fat chance).

The fact is you have no evidence that Bowden or his coaches were involved or had knowledge of it. If you did, I’ve got no problem with this punishment. So find another way to punish the school without getting into the Bowden-Paterno race and putting a permanent asterisk by Bowden’s name.

Just the other day Paterno said that he hopes the NCAA would reconsider its position and allow Bowden to keep the wins. Paterno is a competitor. He doesn’t want to win like that. He wants to beat Bowden fair and square.

“All of Bobby Bowden’s players and all of Joe Paterno’s players want the same thing,” said Terry Bowden. “They want to tell their children and their grandchildren that they played for the guy who won more games than anybody. And that race should be decided on the field.”

Bobby Bowden told me that he hopes the issue will be resolved in Florida State favor “but I won’t slit my wrists if it doesn’t.” He also insisted to me that this decision will not have an impact on when he eventually retires. He said he has an idea when that will be but won’t discuss it “because then people will start counting down the days. I don’t want that.”

Here is my bottom line: The NCAA, however well-intentioned, is inserting itself into a piece of college football history. That is not a proper place for them to be. Punish Florida State appropriately. Just find another way to do it.

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http://twitter.com/MrCFB

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

180 comments Add your comment

Mark

July 15th, 2009
12:29 pm

You miss the point – the “scholarship” program was designed from the beginning to make sure that Bowden/staff did not know officially about it, or they would have no defense if they were caught. Bowden has a long, long history of bending the rules for the sake of wins (see a certain Polish kicker to whom team rules do not apply, see shoplifting, see the auto shop/gambling incidident) with a “golly, gee boys will be boys” attitide and no accountability if they are needed for the next game.

Note that he said the had never been accused of cheating, not that he had never cheated. He just never got caught.

As head coach, he is accountable for what goes on with his program. If they have tutors for the players, they are accountable for the actions of the tutors. In the situation of the total wins, I totally agree that, if you are going to count his non-Division 1 wins, then you have to count Eddie Robinson’s wins the same way. If you don’t count them, JoePa is far ahead anyway. Either way Bowden in not the “winniingest coach” in any way shape or form.

ST. Bobby

July 15th, 2009
12:32 pm

holly, that bridge has already been crossed. Alabama was the most recent to have to vacate wins.

Hear, hear!

July 15th, 2009
12:33 pm

“. . . save your conspiracy theories for the faked moon landing crowd.”

(snorkle)

Atlanta Gator

July 15th, 2009
12:37 pm

Paddy—-You are mistaken. The FSU tutors involved were on the university payroll. Please check your sources. This has been widely reported in the media. You can also read the summary of the major infractions involved in the NCAA major infractions database.

The difference between Georgia Tech and FSU was that the Tech administrators responsible for certifying athletes failed to property determine that eligibility before providing that certification to the NCAA. In FSU’s case, university employees actually coached the student-athletes on how to cheat in particular classes. I’ll let you judge which offense is worse.

Holly

July 15th, 2009
12:42 pm

Atlanta Gator- I understand this is serious stuff. I have worked in collegiate academics. I just want you to understand what the actual rules are before you make your argument.

A student athletes must pass 6 hours per semester
18 hours in an academic year (fall through spring)
and 24 hours in a calender year (before the start of their sophomore year. Summer may be included)

This is all per the academic reform in 2003.

Therefore, the motivations of the students may or may not have been their eligibility.

Regardless, I NEVER want to see a student athlete cheat. I want the STUDENT to be punished more so than the program, although in some way it will always effect the institution and/or sports team.

Babba Nole

July 15th, 2009
12:42 pm

How many of you idiots have a statue of yourselves outside your place of employment? (only applies to the few on this blog that are gainfully employed)

I was at FSU when Bobby Bowden showed up. It was the modern day version of Tulane football. The stadium was a joke and the program was a joke. Bobby Bowden is personally responsible for building one of the greatest programs in the history of college football. Ten years ago we were at the top of the mountain, where UF and USC are today, and our dominance spanned an entire decade.

Every brick in the beautifully rebuilt Doak Campbell Stadium is there because of Bobby Bowden. He didn’t inherit a giant like Urban, Saban, Carrol, Myles or Richt. He took a midget and made it a dynasty one win at a time on the homefields of all of the sports greatest powers winning at USC, Notre Dame, Nebraska, Michigan, Ohio State, Auburn, LSU, Florida, Miami, Arizona State, Michigan State and many, many more.

It’s amazing how much jealousy his success has inspired at the other southern football schools. I love the man and will miss him terribly when he leaves. He gave me a lifetime of wonderful Saturday memories.

AJ

July 15th, 2009
12:47 pm

GO NOLES, BOBBY Should not be punished.

Anonymous

July 15th, 2009
12:53 pm

Babba Nole,

That may be, but if those “wonderful Saturday memories” were made with academically ineligible players, then doesn’t that taint his entire tenure?

Atlanta Gator

July 15th, 2009
12:58 pm

For the record, I quote from the NCAA infractions summary . . . .

“Violations of NCAA legislation involving three former UNIVERSITY ATHLETICS ACADEMIC SUPPORT SERVICES STAFF MEMBERS (including a former LEARNING SPECIALIST) who gave improper assistance resulting in academic fraud to numerous student-athletes representing multiple sport programs.” [spelling and syntax errors in the original]

The staff members were not “former” at the time that the cheating occurred; all were on the university payroll. The persons involved subsequently quit or were fired; that’s how they became “former” staff members.

As a Gator and native Floridian, I don’t enjoy ragging on the Seminoles for these problems. Frankly, I wish FSU would “man up,” accept their punishment, and go and sin no more. As Anonymous said above, this is not about Bobby Bowden; it’s about FSU’s athletic program being neck-deep in academic fraud sponsored by its own employees. That Bobby did not approve is irrelevant. Bobby is not being punished, the FSU athletic program is.

IM4BAMA

July 15th, 2009
1:02 pm

I really hope the NCAA reverses the decision and finds another punishment. It would be a crying shame to screw over a good man like Bobby Bowden out of the chance to be the winningest coach in history.
It would be a major dissapointment to all college football fans to prematurely end the battle between Bobby and Joe Pa. I’m pulling for you Bobby!

Babba Nole

July 15th, 2009
1:02 pm

Let’s all get real. You coach 18 to 22-year old kids for 55 years and you are going to have your share of screw ups. For every FSU player that has gone bad there is a Charlie Ward or a Derrick Brooks or a Warrick Dunn or a Peter Boulware or a Danny Kannell or a Brad Johnson or a Drew Weatherford or on and on.

By the way, Brooks and Dunn were both voted NFL Man of the Year during their NFL careers. Ask them about Bobby Bowden.

Holly

July 15th, 2009
1:09 pm

Greg- what little I could see of the article (all of it wouldn’t come up) reflects Bowden’s views on whether or not the Tulane game of 83 should have been forfeited or not, based on the transfer of a player.

I am not on here to defend Bowden or his opinion on this matter. I am only stating my opinion (this is also in response to Atlanta Gator about the difference between vacating a forfeiting).

My OPINION is this: I don’t believe in vacating wins. Whether it is FSU or Alabama. That doesn’t mean I don’t believe in PUNISHMENT for a rule violation, I just don’t think taking back wins is the answer. As I posted before it gets messy. Now, if you want TRUE records you will have to research the compliance of every school in the history of the NCAA and vacate wins every time an illegible player played whether he took $20 from a booster, cheated on a test, gave away his textbooks, had a cheerleader buy him a soda. It is implausible. My opinion is that you punish once the crime has been discovered and that the punishment should be more heavily imposed upon the individual.

Greg

July 15th, 2009
1:10 pm

Babba Nole,

I agree that very few schools owe their success to one man than FSU. That’s all the more reason to hold him accountable in this situation.

Bobby has always been a master recruiter. He alone made the choice of whom to recruit. He could have recruited players that didn’t need academic help to pass their classes, or who had the character not to cheat on exams, but he probably wouldn’t have won with those types of players (can you say, “Vanderbilt?”). Instead, he recruited guys who could win on the field, but obviously had questionable character.

Those players got the wins for Bobby’s record. But, now that they’ve shown their true character by cheating, Bobby doesn’t want to take any responsibility for their actions off the field.

Sorry, Bobby. You can’t have it both ways.

Coach D

July 15th, 2009
1:17 pm

If FSU had to forfeit wins, it would be the best thing for the Seminole program in the long run because Bobby would probably retire and with him all of his ancient assistants. Then Florida State could get a new head coach and rebuild. Bobby is a legend, but legends should only get a pass to a certain point. Philip Fulmer was eventually relieved from his command and while it was sad to a degree given Fulmer’s contributions to his alma mater, it was necessary. Florida State is a mediocre program right now and the rot and decay has set in. Seminole fans should remember the good times of the Bowden years, not the lethargic final 7.

Atlanta Gator

July 15th, 2009
1:18 pm

Holly—-I stand corrected. You are quoting from the new APR rules in effect since 2003. They have changed since I last reviewed them.

However, my larger point is still valid. In order to be eligible to play NCAA sports, the athletes must pass no fewer than 6 semester hours during the relevant sports season, and no fewer than 24 in a school year (including summer session). Put another way, the FSU football players failed to pass 6 semester hours during the football season or fewer than 24 during the school as a result of their failing grades received for cheating. The athletes motivation for their cheating is irrelevant. They knowingly cheated, with the assistance of university employees, got caught, received a failing grade, failed to satisfy the APR requirements, and were declared ineligible. The NCAA rules are clear: any time a college team plays an ineligible player, any on-the-field wins are subject to forfeiture or vacation. Motive is not relevant.

The university is responsible for ensuring compliance with the rules. Instead, FSU employees sponsored the cheating. As a result, the university is being punished.

Johnny DangerDawg

July 15th, 2009
1:19 pm

Holly,
I am not suggesting that MLB teams should have to retroactively forfeit all the games in which a steroid-using player participated. I was talking about MLB players who get suspended for taking performance-enhancing drugs. The suspension of that ONE player can hurt the ENTIRE team; they might lose some close games that would have been winnable if the suspended player had been allowed to play. I’m not suggesting any changes to suspensions or penalties; I was only pointing out that innocent teammates and coaches in all sports always suffer when ONE guy breaks the rules. My point is that Bobby Bowden is not being treated any more fairly/unfairly than any other player/coach has been treated in the past.

Tide Rising

July 15th, 2009
1:20 pm

Holly,

I agree. I would like to see more punishment heaped upon the individual when they know they are flat out cheating or doing something to harm the school. Punishment would be losing your scholly for a semester or a year.

At bama one of the 5 players who was getting extra textbooks to help out a friend was a team captain and thus had his handprints cemented in the sidewalk in a traditional ceremony. Considering the damage he and the other players did to the school he should have his prints and status as a permanent team captain removed.

Start making the players who cheat accountable as well as the school. In the Alabama case it was sloppy supervision by the bookstore in disbursing textboooks but there was no intentional wrongdoing. The intentional wrongdoing fell on the part of the athletes who knowingly gamed the system and therefore I think they should bear a little more responsibility. They are no longer kids. They are now young adults.

Babba Nole

July 15th, 2009
1:22 pm

Regarding recruiting good people: How many Rhodes Scholars started on SEC teams last season?

Johnny DangerDawg

July 15th, 2009
1:25 pm

Tony,
If this were a 2nd-year head coach having to vacate wins from his first-year of head coaching, would you feel differently? For all we know, that 2nd-year head coach may go on to have an incredible number of wins by the time he’s 80; having to forfeit games now could ruin his chances of chasing a great record in the distant future. So why should Bowden get special treatment?

Atlanta Gator

July 15th, 2009
1:29 pm

BTW, we are NOT discussing an isolated incident here. We are talking about cheating by 61 different student-athletes and multiple academic support staff members. Moreover, no one here is talking about the term papers that were written by tutors that were also cited by the NCAA report on FSU.

Seriously, it’s not like one bad apple brought down the whole tree. FSU is damn lucky not to have lost scholarships, bowl eligibility and TV airtime.

IMHO, the FSU academic fraud infractions were far worse than the textbook scandal at Alabama. Not to make light of a bad situation, but how many Seminole players were caught stealing EXTRA textbooks?

Johnny DangerDawg

July 15th, 2009
1:33 pm

Tide Rising,
I agree that punishing the individual is more fair than punishing the whole team, but how often is that possible? Usually, the player has graduated or is making NFL millions by the time NCAA finishes its investigation. If the NCAA were to conclude tomorrow that Reggie Bush had indeed accepted gifts (a house for his parents) while he was at USC, they can’t exactly take away his scholarship now…

Otto

July 15th, 2009
1:40 pm

Atlanta Gator, From what I read the tutor were on the Univ. payroll but were I no way under the athletic department.

The player are adults and I was always told you would likely be kicked out of school if you cheated. IMO kick the kids out. The athletic program did their due diligence. Punish the players as adults and student. The actions were not the result of the football team.

Atlanta Gator

July 15th, 2009
1:40 pm

Babba Nole—-There were no SEC Rhodes Scholars last year, and FSU football player Myron Rolle is to be commended for his receiving the honor. He is an exceptional young man. But neither fact is terribly relevant to the discussion at hand.

Greg

July 15th, 2009
1:40 pm

I’ll say it again:

The buck stops at you, Bobby. You recruited the kinds of players who would get you the wins for your record, but they were also the kinds of players who were willing to cheat on exams. Cheating on exams is against NCAA rules. You knew the rules, and you knew the players.

Now you’re saying, “Yes, those guys broke NCAA rules, but don’t take my wins away!” If you want a clean program, you have to recruit high-character guys. But, of course, those aren’t the guys who would get you the wins, are they?

You made the bed, Bobby….

Greg

July 15th, 2009
1:44 pm

And don’t say, “But he recruited Warrick Dunn, etc.”

Yes, he did. But Warrick couldn’t win by himself, so Bobby also recruited guys who were willing to cheat.

The_Superhoo

July 15th, 2009
1:44 pm

There’s no proof Bowden or his coaches knew a THING about the cheating. And that’s the problem. If you sign on to be the leader, you have to be held responsible whether you knew about it or not.

Sorry Bobby, you deserve to lose those wins!

FDawg

July 15th, 2009
1:46 pm

Bowden and FSU have been in trouble before…multiple times. Guess ol’ Bobby forgot about the other incidents… If he wants the credit for the wins, maybe he should also take credit for some of his program’s problems. And I normally don’t side with the NCAA but in this instance I do.

Atlanta Gator

July 15th, 2009
1:47 pm

Otto—-The university IS the athletic department. They are not two separate entities. Without the university, there is no athletic department. There are no FSU Seminoles without FSU. That the staff members were not hired by the athletic department but by a stand-alone academic support unit that was supposed to be making sure the athletes were in compliance may be ironic, but it doesn’t exempt the university, athletic department, coaches and teams from sanction.

Bottom line:

university = athletic department

Several weeks ago, I commented on this same topic and took a position closer to yours. Punish the individuals, and recognize the school for coming clean. That was before I understood how deeply involved in the cheating university employees were.

The_Superhoo

July 15th, 2009
1:48 pm

Oh and for those saying “college football fans want the race for all time wins to continue,” who gives a crap?

I’m a college football fan who is counting down the days to the season’s start, and I honestly have no interest in this competition.

Babba Nole

July 15th, 2009
1:50 pm

Atlanta Gator

I was simply responding to the accusations that Bowden recruits bad kids. He recruits the same kind of kids every other college football power in the South recruits. All you have to do is look at the arrest records at Florida, Georgia, South Carolina and any other big-time school and you’ll see that’s true. Do you really think football players at UF are not cheating on exams?

We all play with the same deck and what’s taking place at FSU today could be happening at your school tomorrow. I’m just stating my belief that Bobby Bowden is an honorable man who had an exceptional career and provided a positive influence on thousands of young men.

Atlanta Gator

July 15th, 2009
1:51 pm

What Bobby knew, and when Bobby knew it are irrelevant.

The university (not Bobby Bowden) has a cheating problem. The university (not Bobby Bowden) broke NCAA rules. The university (not Bobby Bowden) got caught. The university (not Bobby Bowden) is being punished. The university (not Bobby Bowden) is vacating football wins.

Dadgummit, I hate it when the NCAA is logical.

Atlanta Gator

July 15th, 2009
2:02 pm

Babba Nole—-I agree.

I have repeatedly said that coaches and universities should be judged by how they handle troubled players after problems happen, and also by what they do to discourage behavior that results in violations of the law or NCAA rules. Bad things happen; how we handle unfortunate events is one measure of character. And part of having good character is living with the consequences of your mistakes (or those of our organizations) and working to make bad situations better.

FSU at least self-reported and self-investigated. Otherwise, the NCAA punishment would have been far heavier.

That Damn Gator is Funny!

July 15th, 2009
2:08 pm

“IMHO, the FSU academic fraud infractions were far worse than the textbook scandal at Alabama. Not to make light of a bad situation, but how many Seminole players were caught stealing EXTRA textbooks?”

I hate the damn Gators, but that Atlanta Gator is one funny guy. RTR

Reality Check

July 15th, 2009
2:11 pm

This is pathetic. If you run a program that used ineligible players, you should pay the piper. “I didn’t know that my athletes cheated for three years” sounds like a silly excuse, as does “I’m old please don’t punish me.”

Babba Nole

July 15th, 2009
2:15 pm

Atlanta Gator, we’re in agreement.

Here’s my question for you. Every coach faces adversity. Bob Stoops was a genius in 2000, by 2007, OK fans were calling him a choker. Same with “The Vest” at Ohio State. How do you think Urban will handle adversity (meaning losing) when it comes? Talk about revealing character.

CharlotteGator

July 15th, 2009
2:17 pm

Since the new standard of character is the arrest record, wonder where we could find what the arrest records are at our places of employment, church congregations, and volunteer activities. You know, so we can determine if our bosses, pastors, or volunteer organizers are “morally corrupt”.

CharlotteGator

July 15th, 2009
2:22 pm

Babba Nole,

We didn’t win anything in 2005 and 2007 and he responded by working his players hard, making them accountable to each other, not making excuses, and recruiting his butt off. When we start losing again, I imagine his response will be the same. At least that’s my hope.

If you mean scandal when you say adversity, then I hope he’ll respond with some honesty and accept the consequences of any discretions that were committed. I’m as big a Gator fan as they come, but academic fraud, improper benefits, etc. can’t be tolerated or what message do we send to the players and kids that one day want to be players.

Ken Stallings

July 15th, 2009
2:43 pm

Babba Nole,

I don’t have a statue outside my home or work, but I do have a commercial flagpole outside with large American flags flying at the top of them. I’m an active duty military officer. I paid for the one outside in my front yard at home. The government paid for the one outside my office.

Are you really trying to imply that because Bowden has a statue in his honor that he deserves a separate series of rules and bylaws governing his actions? Are you really trying to imply this should be due to the perception his job is more important than mine, or the job of other professionals?

I hope we haven’t become so crass and cynical that we openly endorse such dangerous views. Integrity is a universal standard.

Gatorzone

July 15th, 2009
2:49 pm

Dadgummit, yall get off of Bobby’s back! Their just kids! It’s just Football!
Cut the old man some slack.

Right Babba?

CrowleyDawg

July 15th, 2009
2:50 pm

The NCAA is only taking away a portion of what they giveth years earlier. By my count, Bowden is still up 17 non legitimate Div I wins. So he (and FSU) have no reason to gripe. All of Joe Pa wins are bona fide Div I wins. He deserves the title.

Chief Osceola

July 15th, 2009
3:06 pm

Hey FSU, my people called and they want their good name back.

AU

July 15th, 2009
3:18 pm

Nachos and m,

Say what you want, GT is still a little red-headed stepchild of UGA, and Bamer is still 1-6 over the past 7 years vs. AU. Whine all you want! :)

ben

July 15th, 2009
3:26 pm

Steroids, Bank fraud, Medicare fraud, sure why not let one more cheater get away with it? When we’re all huddled under a bridge speaking Chinese, you can trace it back to the lack of character that became this nation’s trademark.

Beautiful Monte

July 15th, 2009
3:57 pm

Well, who would have guessed that Tony B. would be among the millions of media types bamboozled by Booby Bowdown’s tired old “shucks and dadgummit” act?

Tony, if you recall, FSU football players – enabled and supported by good ole Booby – have been engaged in “questionable” behavior for more than two decades.

If I’m not mistaken, Dimwit Deion stopped going to class altogether during his senior season with the Noles, which, I believe, was 1988. I’m sure that good ole Booby was shocked – shocked, I tell you! – at such behavior by one of his “student”-athletes.

I realize that all ESPN employees are expected to rationalize and make excuses for every type of abhorrent behavior displayed by professional and college athletes and coaches.

Still, it’s a sad day when a “journalist” like Tony B. stoops to such a level.

R.I.P, integrity!

CCfsu84

July 15th, 2009
4:13 pm

The players did not cheat to stay eligible, it was an online open-book music history class, give me a break. Bowden confused eBay with the internet, he obviously had nothing to do with the cheating. Coaches are only allowed a certain amount of time around players, he can’t hold a 20 year old’s hand and take him to class and check his homework. Players were suspended when he found out. Also, when he was at Howard, there wasn’t the same distinction between FBS, FCS, D-1a-2a, etc. so the wins count, get over it. Either way Bowden is the greatest coach (in terms of wins) in Southeast American history.

Holly

July 15th, 2009
4:17 pm

Atlanta Gator,

My comments on motives were in response to a previous poster, not you. If a student already passed their 6 required hours for the semester and fails another class, then they are still eligible, so eligibility may not have been the motive. Either way, it is a moot point, the students still cheated.

The people on this board seem to think I want FSU to have a pass. I don’t. I just don’t like the idea of vacating wins. If those wins were going to be vacated, then FSU should have not had the players sit out the following season once they were (by academic standing) eligible again. I think the school discovers the problem and handles it from there and I feel that Florida State did that. No one got a pass- players sat out, scholarships were lost, students retook the course, FSU is on probation. Why more?

And for the record, I think what happened to Bama is worse. Wins shouldn’t be vacated there either.

Objective commentator

July 15th, 2009
4:20 pm

It’s simple:
Florida State would take the athletes that other schools, because of academic issues, wouldn’t.
FSU’s academic entrance requirements have always been more, er, how shall I put it, forgiving.
Little wonder then that Bobby ended up with a gaggle of acdemically challenged players with little or no chance of getting a degree.
Hence, their list of options being woefully short, they choose to forgo their matriculation for the shot at the NFL.
Why then work hard, study and play by the rules?
And any fun/gain to be had along the way is a bonus!

Otto

July 15th, 2009
4:21 pm

Gator I never said they weren’t Univ. employees but the athletic program and university did not encourage it. Bobby had no knowledge or power of it.

Treat the cheater as adults both the students and tutors. Fire them and/or kick them out of school. If those hiring the tutors had any knowledge fire them too.

Bobby and the team is getting punished when they did what they were supposed to.

Gen Neyland

July 15th, 2009
4:57 pm

For the most part, this has been one of the best civil discussions to date. I think people are debating not the deed itself but the end result of the infraction according to the applicable rules. I think the opinions of Atlanta Gator and Holly have been a good read. I’ll admit, I don’t know diddly about squat here so I’d have to ask, what would Sotomayor do..?

dawg07

July 15th, 2009
5:04 pm

Bowen seems more concern about his win/loss record than his team. Let the decision stand!