Can Saban manage expectations at Alabama?
Tuscaloosa, Ala.—To Alabama football fans, it was a disaster. To the Alabama football players, it was an anti-climatic and desperately disappointing way to end a season. For Nick Saban, however, it was a teachable moment.
It was the 31-17 loss to Utah in the Sugar Bowl on Jan. 2. Less than a month before Alabama had been 12-0, ranked No. 1, and in position to win its 13th national championship. After losing to Florida (31-20), the eventual national champion, in one of the best SEC championship games ever played, Alabama was less than inspired to be playing in the Sugar Bowl. Utah, however, was very excited about being there and their play on the field reflected that.
After the game, Saban had a stern lesson for his players.
“I told them it (the loss) showed what we can do when we are focused and play together. We did that 13 times last season. We didn’t beat Florida but it was a great game and we were certainly in a position to win it,” Saban said when I met with him in his office on Thursday. “But it also showed what would happen if we did lose focus and weren’t mentally ready to play at a high level. Utah was a good team and we did not play at the level we had in those other 13 games.”
Alabama lost its best offensive lineman, left tackle Andre Smith, who was suspended before the Sugar Bowl. Saban said the loss of Smith, while important, has been overstated when analyzing the loss to Utah.
“It shouldn’t have affected the way the other 21 guys played,” he said.
Here’s the reality. Alabama was a very good football team in 2008 that got the most out of its talent. But this wasn’t Alabama of 1992 with Eric Curry, John Copeland, George Teague and a ton of great, great players. When Alabama of 2008 could stick to its power running game behind that great offensive line and play with passion on defense, it could beat anybody and did for 12 straight weeks. But Florida and Utah were able to spread out the defense and all but neutralize NT Terrence Cody.
So Saban has spent a good part of his spring lecturing to his players about managing expectations based on past performance.
“We seem to have an attitude around here that we deserve some level of success based on what we did the year before,” said Saban. “Those kinds of expectations can be destructive. At this level of football nothing is guaranteed. You only get what you are willing to work for.”
Saban is also taking this message of managing expectations to the Alabama booster clubs he will visit this spring. After coming so close last season, a lot fans believe that in 2009 Alabama will take the next logical step and contend for the national championship. But rarely does the building curve of a football program go straight up. It seems he has been in Alabama forever but in reality, this is the third year under Saban.
“I’ve told them that we want to have standards but if the standard is up here (at 12-0) do people lose interest if we don’t meet that standard? We have the best fans in the word but that kind of attitude can be very destructive,” he said.
Is Saban trying to preemptively manage expectations for his 2009 team? Of course he is. Alabama will be in everybody’s preseason Top 10 based on last season’s 12-0 start and the fact that nine starters return on defense. The schedule is set up for success. After opening the season in Atlanta against ACC champ Virginia Tech, the non-conference schedule is FIU, North Texas, and Tennessee-Chattanooga. Georgia goes off the schedule and South Carolina comes on. The LSU game is in Tuscaloosa. The toughest road trip is to Ole Miss on Oct. 10.
But Saban can see the potential land mines every day at practice: Alabama has to replace three new starters on the offensive line, including the Outland Trophy winner (Andre Smith) and center Antoine Caldwell, a great warrior had 49 career starts. There will be a new quarterback in Greg McElroy, a smart kid who will do the right thing but won’t overwhelm anybody with his talent. The defense has two of the best linebackers on the planet (Rolando McClain and Dont’a Hightower) but is dangerously thin at the position after that. They don’t have a great pass rusher unless they take Hightower from his linebacker position from time to time. There is no way to replace the intangibles that FS Rashad Johnson brought to the defense.
Will Saban be successful in managing the expectations of his fans for 2009? Not a chance. That genie never stays in the bottle for very long.
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155 comments Add your comment
Jacket Attack
April 10th, 2009
8:00 am
Robot Roll Call!
C3PO
On the Flats
April 10th, 2009
8:01 am
Robot Roll Call!
7-Zark-7
Ramblin' Gamblin'
April 10th, 2009
8:04 am
I love it! Robot Roll Call!
RoboCop
RAMBLE ON!
April 10th, 2009
8:06 am
Sounds a bit nerdy, but… Robot Roll Call!
Josh Nesbitt
By the way, no way Nick manages that expectation level. The Alabama fan base is lunatic material. What evidence? Read this message board later today.
On the Flats
April 10th, 2009
8:10 am
Robot Roll Call!
R2D2
Robbie the Robot
HAL
Jacket Attack
April 10th, 2009
8:16 am
Robot Roll Call!
Fembots!
North Ave Jacket
April 10th, 2009
8:17 am
First time poster! Robot Roll Call!
T-800 (the first Terminator)
GeoffDawg
April 10th, 2009
8:18 am
A “bit” nerdy? This does nothing to mitigate your stereotype.
lakerat
April 10th, 2009
8:18 am
Robot Roll Call – the one on Lost in Space – did it have a name? Sorry, I am not a Techie, but I am sure someone there will know!
Re: aL expectations – no way to manage those expectations. Saban was 7-6 the first year with a loss to some D2 Team from LA, a loss at home no less. Then they get to 12-0 and lose 2 consecutive games – one to a Mountain West team.
There is no room for error this year – he will take the money and run after next year – it will be interesting to see if St. Nick or Pope Urban gets the call from ND – my guess is that the first one to say yes to the $5mil a year will be the one who gets the job!
GeoffDawg
April 10th, 2009
8:20 am
This truly is the meek inheiriting the Earth.
On the Flats
April 10th, 2009
8:20 am
Robot Roll Call!
The Iron Giant
Wall-E
Gort
lakerat
April 10th, 2009
8:21 am
Also, the robot housekeeper on the Jetsons (yes, I know I am old)!
GeoffDawg
April 10th, 2009
8:23 am
Regarding bama – As we all saw with Georgia last year, you can never be too deep at any key positions. Front line talent is all well and good but it’s a long season and injuries and fatigue will usually catch up with you. It’s basically the South Carolina syndrome where they play hard the first part of the season but always flame out towards the end. Bama better hope that their linebacking unit stays intact and that they develop some solid starters on the o-line.
Atlanta Gator
April 10th, 2009
8:25 am
Good grief. This column is about Alabama football prospects in 2009. What are all the bizarre Georgia Tech comments about?
On the Flats
April 10th, 2009
8:25 am
Robot Roll Call!
The Lost in Space robot is Robot B-9. But they mostly just called him Robot.
Twiki (Buck Rodgers!)
As to the topic, losing John Parker Wilson will do more damage to that team than its fan base expects. No way they replace that. Alabama battles this year in a lot of 14 – 13 style games. And losses at least 3, probably 4 or 5.
LSWho?
April 10th, 2009
8:32 am
Good post Tony & great point about Bama’s D against florida & Utah. Cody has shown up this spring at 354 & is much quicker & faster. Fanney & Davis will step up the pass rush. With only one loss on the DL from last year’s 3 deep & an experienced LB corps & secondary, the Tide’s D should be much better. OL is the big question, but look for Carpenter to step in at LT. I believe McElroy will surprise. SEC West will be tough, RTR
Jeremy
April 10th, 2009
8:37 am
The mentioning of 12 National Titles brings up a point that I have long thought about regarding the number of NC’s schools claim. This is not meant to bash Bama, because they are by no means the only school that advertises inflated national title numbers.
I would love it if someone would go through the history of college football and make a definitive non-biased list of national champions and cleanup the large number of polls (Williamson, etc.) that used to exist.
To give an example Alabama claims 1941 as one of their titles. This was a year in which I believe the Tide lost 3 games (including Vanderbilt), finished 3rd in the SEC, and 20th in the AP poll. Yet, a new poll came out many years later and retroactively called Alabama National Champs for that year.
Many schools claim titles in years long ago that they did not win the coaches or AP polls. Two local examples are UGA claiming 1942, and Georgia Tech claiming 1952. The two AP/UPI champions for those years were Ohio State and Michigan State respectively.
Not a big deal, but I would love to see the article if it were written.
On the Flats
April 10th, 2009
8:39 am
Robot Roll Call!
ET
Quark-45
Atlanta Gator
April 10th, 2009
8:39 am
Back to today’s column topic . . . Alabama football’s prospects for the 2009 season.
Tony’s theme of managing fan expectations is going to be the central theme of Nick Saban’s third season in Tuscaloosa. Unless the Tide greatly exceeds rational predictions for the coming season, the Tide will be playing for the future, with a lot of young first-time starters, and even more talent in the recruiting pipeline. With a little luck and another below-par season by LSU, Alabama could back into an SEC West Division championship, but I expect that their losses to graduation and early NFL departures make that no better than a 50-50 proposition. The SEC West is likely to be a dogfight among Alabama, LSU and Ole Miss, with Arkansas making significant progress, and even Auburn and Mississippi State are likely to win an upset or two. IMHO, no team is likely to finish undefeated in the West division.
Hopefully, smart Bama fans will be patient enough to let the 2009 season play out. The Tide is not likely to achieve the same level of success as 2008, but the future looks very, very bright for Alabama football beyond 2009.
UF N Good
April 10th, 2009
8:49 am
I’ll play. Gators know a thing or two about bots and drinking.
Robot Roll Call!
Bender
GeoffDawg
April 10th, 2009
8:50 am
Jeremy – I agree that NT numbers are usually ambiguous and inflated by respective schools but I don’t see how anyone could reasonably go back and arbitrarily decide that one poll’s claim is worth more than another poll’s claim. Obviously, there are exceptions like the bama one you alluded to but I don’t think you can just look at who the AP picked in any given year either and run with it. Even though some of the polling services are now defunct doesn’t mean they weren’t just as legitimate as the AP or UPI back in the day. You also have to deal with the tremendous bias that some schools enjoyed from certain polls. From an era when a program like Notre Dame’s received all the national attention, polls are always going to give them the advantage with everything else being equal. You still see that today with teams like Utah having no valid shot at playing in the championship game because the perception is that they’re not part of the college football elite. That’s a perception I happen to agree with but the possibility still exists that they could be just as good as anyone. If we ever do get to a playoff system, we should probably just starting listing titles separately as Before Playoff (BP) and After Playoff (AP) because you’ll never in a million years get consensus on who owns what title dating back to before the modern era.
Percy Harvey
April 10th, 2009
8:57 am
techies, you be showin yo ignorance.
go gator.
On the Flats
April 10th, 2009
9:04 am
Robot Roll Call! Let’s keep it going!
Data (Star Trek)
GeoffDawg, good point on the BP/AP distinction. I could see that happening. I’m guessing that in 25 years, Auburn will claim a NT the year they went undefeated (2003, 2004?) and who could blame them?
Atlanta Jackets
April 10th, 2009
9:06 am
Percy, shut the pie hole please.
Robot Roll Call!
Optimus Prime
Atlanta Gator
April 10th, 2009
9:08 am
Jeremy—-On occasion, I have gently tweaked our Alabama blogger friends about the 12* national football championships that their athletic department claims. Several of those “championships” represent a minority of all of the final polls that were taken in the given years, and in several instances, represent a single poll from among 15 or more. By any reasonable standard, those are not “consensus” national championships.
To their credit, Notre Dame and Georgia (and many other top football schools) only claim consensus titles for seasons in which their team received the number one ranking from at least a majority of the polls in the early, pre-AP poll years, or, later, in those seasons in which they were declared number one by the AP and/or Coaches Poll. Notre Dame claims 11 consensus national championships, but could claim NINETEEN by the same standard that the Alabama athletic department uses. UGA’s athletic department claims two consensus national championships, but could claim FIVE by acknowledging any single poll rating their team number one.
Alabama has a great football history, but it’s a shame that the school’s athletic department feels the need to pad their record. I’m not sure why they feel compelled to do it, but IMO, Bama should simply emphasize their 21 SEC championships, shared or outright, every one of which was legitimately won on the field and not invented by some rinky-dink pollster.
For the record, Tennessee has the second most SEC championships with 13, making Bama’s total of 21 look damn impressive.
BTW, earlier this week, another Mr. CFB blogger recounted at length the various issues with several of the 12 championships claimed by the Alabama athletic department. And, yes, the Georgia Tech athletic department is guilty of padding their national championship claims, too.
Nachos
April 10th, 2009
9:17 am
No mention of your beloved dawwwgs? Tony Jabroni whats up with that ????
emptydodd
April 10th, 2009
9:20 am
Robot Roll Call!
That chick from Small Wonder!
Optimus Prime
April 10th, 2009
9:26 am
Robot Roll Call!
Atlanta Jackets
Anonymous
April 10th, 2009
9:26 am
Question:
Are Atlanta Jackets, On the Flats, RAMBLE ON!!, Jacket Attack, Ramblin’ Gamblin’ and North Ave Jacket all the same person?
Could 6 actual alumni of the same school really share the same goofy sense of humor?
Saint Nick
April 10th, 2009
9:29 am
Imagine that, Hey trekkies THIS is a bama blog!!! Remember i had no right commenting on a blog about the trekkies yesterday!!!!! Crawl back to your drafting tables and leave this blog to SEC football fans!!!!
buckblue
April 10th, 2009
9:31 am
Nick is already start to burn out the coaches…Thompson left in a fizzy….Steele left after yelling at nick during the Utah beat down…players are playing for da $$$. He will either burn everyone out or get on probation before they ever win the SEC.
Otto
April 10th, 2009
9:34 am
Jeremy,
1925 National Championship- Alabama claims they share this one with Dartmouth. Who awarded the NC? Houlgate and Helms. Houlgate started his system in 1927. So Bama won their 1925 NC using a formula that didn’t exist until 1927? Helms Athletic Foundation started in 1941. Another incredible retroactive NC.
The Associated Press Poll has been active since 1936. The AP took their final poll prior to bowl games from 1936 – 1964 and in 1966 and 1967. They took their final poll after the bowl games in 1965 and from 1968 – Current.
1926 National Championship- Alabama claims they share this one with 3 other teams with equal or better records! Once again it is the Helms Athletic Foundation in 1941 that awards it!
1930 National Championship- The Davis poll says that Bama tied Notre Dame for NC this year. This was the only one to award it to Bama. Notre Dame was named NC in 6 polls! Parke Davis is another retroactive system! He (an individual, not an organization) did his in 1933!
1934 National Championship- Alabama says they share this with two other teams. The awarders are Dunkel, Williamson, and Football Thesaurus. Dunkel was an individual who came up with his own system. Williamson was a geologist who came up with his own system. Football Thesaurus first appeared in 1946!
1941 National Championship- This is a complete joke. The AP ranked Alabama 20th in the nation with 14 teams with better records in the top 20. Once again it is the Football Thesaurus that retroactively awards it. Alabama finished 3rd in the SEC that year. Mississippi State won the SEC title..yet Bama claims a National title!
1961 National Championship- Finally a legitimate NC. .
1964 National Championship- While the AP did award the NC to Bama (10-1-0), Arkansas had the better record, 11-0. Alabama played Texas in their bowl and LOST. The AP final poll was before the bowl.
1965 National Championship- The AP gave this to Bama. That year there were three teams with better records than Bama. Bama 9-1-1, Michigan St 10-1-0, Arkansas 10-1-0, Nebraska 10-1-0.
1973 National Championship- AP puts Bama 4th after their bowl game loss. Bama claims a NC from the UPI poll that was taken before they met Notre Dame in the bowl game and lost. There were 3 teams with better records than Bama that year. The embarrassment of naming Alabama number one caused the UPI to name champions after bowl games. Yet Bammer has no shame in claiming it of course.
1978 National Championship- AP gives this to Alabama(11-1-0) even though USC (12-1-0) had the better record Guess who Alabama lost to that year? USC!!!!!!!!!. UPI gave the NC to USC.
1979 National Championship- Their second legitimate NC. Their first Unanimous NC.
1992 National Championship- Their third legitimate NC. Their second Unanimous NC.
RAMBLE ON!!!
April 10th, 2009
9:35 am
All these “nerdy comments” are from a UGAg poser. Sad, but true.
Erk
April 10th, 2009
9:36 am
It’s impossible to manage the expectations of Bama fans unless you’re the Bear. Wouldn’t Bear’s ghost be a better coach than any living coach today?
Atlanta Gator, good post and good points regarding consensus national championships. We can always count on you to be objective and not obnoxious like most UF fans.
GeoffDawg
April 10th, 2009
9:36 am
On the Flats – given their conference schedule, many people would agree that Auburn got the shaft that year. I don’t know if they would’ve beaten USC but they definitely deserved the opportunity even with the less the impressive OOC schedule. I think you still need some poll to list you number 1 to lay claim to a title which in the BCS era just aren’t as plentiful. Just as Bama did though, maybe some Auburn grad is retroactively creating the “Plainsman Poll” even as we speak.
Atlanta Jackets
April 10th, 2009
9:39 am
Whoever that was, I thought it was hilarous!
Can I add one more?
Voltron
Thanks Otto for reposting that summary. That pretty much ends UA’s claim to 12 titles.
Otto
April 10th, 2009
9:43 am
Granted ‘66 could be argued for Bama. ‘42 and ‘46 are up for debate with UGA. As long as a poll or a 2 team playoff decides the national title there will be debate but I will take the current system over a playoff.
I used to want a 4 team palyoff but it would reward non BCS teams that take an easier schedule to a perfect season. An 8 team playoff would take away from the regular season. Look at Basketbal the regular season is a sleeper and the tournament a snoozer. I am in here every weekday and could not tell you the 2 teams that lost in the final 4 and don’t really care. Take a look at how viewer ratings have declined for March Madness.
Otto
April 10th, 2009
9:47 am
Atl. Jacket you can thank the Aubbie I stole it from. Saban has follow 10 in seasons up by let downs in the past. Bama has alot of turnover but the easiest schedule in the west so I will be interesting to watch. LSU may have found a QB. Ole Miss looks strong. MSU and Auburn on new coach staffs. Arkansas rebuilding or ready?
North Ave Jacket
April 10th, 2009
9:49 am
In 1952, Tech was 12 – 0 and proclaimed as the national title winner by four different services. Four. I think that counts.
Capstone Report » Saban battles sense of entitlement
April 10th, 2009
9:49 am
[...] here that we deserve some level of success based on what we did the year before,” Saban said to Mr. College Football. “Those kinds of expectations can be destructive. At this level of football nothing is [...]
Atlanta Gator
April 10th, 2009
9:51 am
Erk—Thanks for the kind words, but I’m a far more typical Gator than you know. And a big “head but” compliment back at ya.
m
April 10th, 2009
9:56 am
Tony, alabammer did what these pitiful sec teams usually do when they go out of conference to play. They got their arses handed to them by UTAH. Let me pause here to LAUGH MY ARSE OFF.TGAG.
TIde rising
April 10th, 2009
10:06 am
Otto,
You present a 1 sided argument so allow me to retort. While we can quibble over the number of true ncs that Bama owns your assertion that the winningest team over the last 100 years of football only has 3 legit ncs is absurd. That’s right. Look it up. Over the last 100 years Bama leads the nation in wins with 754. ND is 2nd with 751. We also lead the nation in bowl appearances and victories, etc. but for now lets just stick with the idea that the winningest team in football only has 3 legit titles is ludicrous.
The truth is that although the NCAA official media guide once credited us with 17 the real number is somewhere between 6-7 on the very low end to 17 on the extreme high end when using the NCAA media guide and any poll. Most serious football people go with 7-9.
And you leave out all the ncs Bama got robbed of. 1966 and 1976 stand out in particular and are jsut 2 years where any reasonable, objective person can see we got jobbed. The prejudices against the South, especially during 1966 and the whole 60s and 70s didn’t help us either. The bottom line is that it all averages out. Funny that you should leave out years where we legitimately were the best but were denied anyway. How come that doesn’t figure into your math?
Dr. Phil
April 10th, 2009
10:15 am
Where have I heard expectations based on last year’s performance? Could it have been from Richt? It seems that Richt and his coaches got pay raises based on expectations rather than a rather dismal performance. That’s a little like bank CEO bonuses.
GeoffDawg
April 10th, 2009
10:17 am
Jeremy – Exhibit 1: Tide Rising vs. Otto. Never in a million years will you get consensus on who owns titles. Especially before the modern era.
Eric
April 10th, 2009
10:18 am
Saban, annoying.
Otto
April 10th, 2009
10:20 am
Tide rising in my next post I said ‘66 could be argued for Bama. Nobody can deny the ‘66 title was influenced by factors off the field and whatever you think of the Bear the ‘70 game against USC was one of the best political moves in history.
I do give you credit the real number is most likely 6 or 7.
Atlanta Gator
April 10th, 2009
10:21 am
North Ave Jacket—-The 1952 consensus championship belongs to undefeated Michigan State, who received the number one ranking in the final AP and UPI Coaches polls, as well as 11 of the 16 number one final poll rankings. Georgia Tech actually was ranked number one by 5 of the 16 polls.
Based on receiving a number ranking from the final polls, Tech can legitimately claim consensus nation titles in 1917 and 1928, and a share of a split title in 1990 (UPI title shared with AP champ Colorado). Undefeated Oklahoma were the consensus champions in 1956 (AP & UPI) when Tech received 2 of 17 number one rankings.
Best Tech claims: 2 consensus championships (1917 & 1928), and one split championship (1990).
GeoffDawg
April 10th, 2009
10:23 am
I’ve never said this before but that Gator’s got a good point.
Saint Nick
April 10th, 2009
10:25 am
Hey buck,
Thompson was an idiot…Steele left of his own will. Saban is hard to work for BUT he is a top 3 coach. Work for Saban for 3 years and move on to a better position. Bama doesn’t have to pay for players when Saban is head coach, he puts players in the NFL. Probation?????Please, Bama has to tread very lightly as it is because of the Dubose fiasco in Memphis with Logan Young. Glad to see that USC is finally getting exposed though(took long enough). If that was an SEC team, they would have already have been slammed!!!RTR!!!!!!
Saint Nick
April 10th, 2009
10:27 am
We have 12, why do you care??? Never understood this….
PTC DAWG
April 10th, 2009
10:27 am
I hope Bama does well under Saban. A healthy/strong Bama helps UGA. Rarely are Bama and AU strong at the same time, and UGA plays AU every year.
JB
April 10th, 2009
10:31 am
speaking of records… Bama goes undefeated last year in regular season and has 8 unranked teams on the platter for 2009. Ole Nick got a horseshoe up his arse or what ?
TIde rising
April 10th, 2009
10:31 am
Otto and Geoffdawg,
Geoffdawg, You are correct. We can argue legit ncs all day. My only beef was that if we have won more games than anybody over the last 100 years that it is reasonable to expect that we legitimately own at least 6 or 7 legit national titles and not 3.
And I had just wanted to point out that the fact that its a 2 way street regarding several years in which we truly were the best and yet were denied.
Several books were written about the undefeated 1966 Bama team that was denied the nc while Mich St and ND played to a 10-10 tie in what the northern media dubbed “the game of the century”. That 66 Bama team was Bear Bryants greatest and his favorite team. I think they had Namath or Stabler at qb, they shut out 8 opponents and their statistical dominance was something crazy like outscoring opponents 250-30 over the course of the season.
For the record I also think most reasonable, objective people would give the dawgs the 1942 title.
Lastly, what is it with all the Tech robot comments? Seems bizarre.
Can Saban manage expectations at Alabama? - VolNation
April 10th, 2009
10:32 am
[...] Can Saban manage expectations at Alabama? Tony is by no means an expert, as evident by how far off he whiffed on us last year, but I do enjoy his read and perspective. Can Saban manage expectations at Alabama? | Mr. College Football [...]
Kiffinisatosser
April 10th, 2009
10:33 am
Heh heh Saban seems to be waking up to the Frankenstein’s monster he has created. Inflating the expectations of the nutjobs in Tuscaloosa is a terrible (and occasionally terminal) mistake. Saban should have amortized their expectations by winning less last year. That way he could have milked Bama for the full extent of his not insubstantial contract monies. Sadly, he has now initiated an unstoppable chemical reaction that will result in death by houndstooth.
Nick, you are going to need some good excuses. Try these on for size:
1. My boys is all hurt (all-time classic)
2. Every opponent treats playing Bama as its Superbowl (wears thin in the SEC)
3. Them other teams are cheating.(Don’t look in the mirror Nick)
4. The referees screwed us (will be tough sell given the Bama pay-outs to the SEC refs over the last years)
5. Well, we lost a very underrated QB in JP Wilson last year (uhh…he was poorly rated and still failed to exceed the ratings).
6. We are still working through the Shula era (uhh, Shula’s players won all those games last year).
7. A player the quality of Freddie Kitchens doesn’t come around but once a decade (and the nutjobs are relieved….this might be your winner Nick).
VT will fire the first shell into the hull of the lumbering bama battle wagon in Game 1 …and it won’t get any easier. Looking forward to observing and laughing derisively all season long!
Otto
April 10th, 2009
10:33 am
Atl Gator. GT can argue for ‘52 the AP poll was final before the Bowl Games. GT beat a #7 in the Sugar to go 11-0. MSU did not play a bowl and finished 9-0. As Tide rising pointed out polls were oftem biased to the Big10 and PAC8. Another strange fact GT has never been ranked #1 in the AP poll at any time.
Geoff Dawg yes the further back you go the more the polls can be debated.
Gen Neyland
April 10th, 2009
10:35 am
Alabama, 0-2 in their last two games. To paraphrase Jim Mora Sr, “NC!!? Don’t talk to me about NC’s!! Are you kidding me!!? NC!!?” Alabama will be no better than 3rd or worse from the SEC in 2009…They did surprise us all in 2008 and to their credit had a terrific season. SECCG was a classic. A great game. But to come into it ranked #1 in the country and be an underdog, well my-my…
TIde rising
April 10th, 2009
10:35 am
JB,
We play Va. Tech as an out of conference opponent this year and they should be ranked in the top 10 or 12 to start. Do you play anyone higher ranked out of conference?
Also, I see that you’ve still been hoping that Nick is leaving. Seems you’ve been saying for 3 years now “he’ll be gone next year”. Keep hoping and praying buddy. Considering he just donated 1 million to be distributed over a 10 year time frame to the school it begs the question “Does that sound like someone is about to leave when they just made a committment to donate a million bucks over the next 10 years”. But I guess you can always hope can’t you.
Got 12?
April 10th, 2009
10:37 am
Why are you guys so upset about our national championships?
There should be much more concern over our marketing efforts (Chick-fil-A College Kickoff game, ESPN-televised spring game) and recruiting abilities (consecutive top-rated classes, three early commitments from Georgia kids for 2010). In case you missed today’s AJC article on the latter, here’s a snippet:
“Alabama has as many commitments from the state as Georgia Tech (3), and more than UGA (1).”
CurlyHeadedDevil
April 10th, 2009
10:38 am
I’m not a UGA or Alabama fan but you idiots from GA Tech cannot possibly be more than 15 years old. You may be good enough test takers to get into Tech but you are the biggest dumbasses I’ve ever seen post anything. Or maybe you’re just smoking the “loco weed” between classes while you fiddle with your laptop. I like Paul Johnson as a coach but I truly hope the Dawgs go back to kicking your collective arses every year! Even I can’t wait for that!
Miles
April 10th, 2009
10:40 am
It’ll be pretty tough for the Tide to top last year’s success.
On the Flats
April 10th, 2009
10:41 am
Tide Rising – On your argument that because Alabama has most wins in NCAA history it certainly has more than 3 titles. As a Braves fan, I know the Braves were the best team of the 1990s and almost certainly had more wins than any other team in that decade. It’s probably not even close. Yet we have one world series title. UGA is the “winningeset” SEC team over the last, what, seven, eight years? And they have zero NTs. Florida has two.
Oh yeah, I forgot…
Robot Roll Call!
Gamitron
Ultraman
tidefan00
April 10th, 2009
10:42 am
Saban showed last season he has no problem playing pure freshmen if they are up to it and there is a need. I think Tony needs to look at some of the incoming LB’s who very well may get playing time. They were some of the best LB recruits in the nation.
Also, I disagree about McElroy not wowing anyone. I think he will be one of the biggest surprieses in football this year. He was highly highly touted prospect out of Texas, played behind Chase Daniel in high school and broke most of Chases records, and is a very smart QB with a big arm.
The question for Bama is the o-line. If that group can gel, you could be looking at another 10-11 win season easily.
JB
April 10th, 2009
10:43 am
Ok, here ya go. Bama games in 2009 with No pre season ranking of ANY KIND
1. Fla. Int’l
2.N. Texas
3.Arkansas
4. Kentucky
5. Tenn.
6Miss. State
7. Tenn. Chatt.
8. Auburn.
Boy o boy…..better gear up for that run.
Around The SEC West - 4/10/09 | MrSEC.com
April 10th, 2009
10:43 am
[...] are the top stories from the SEC West today:Bama: Tony Barnhart of The AJC wonders if Nick Saban can manage the lofty expectations of the Crimson Tide fanbase.Bama: The acrobatic Kerry Murphy wants to make an impact on [...]
Otto
April 10th, 2009
10:44 am
*GT beat #7 Ole Miss in the Sugar.
Tide Rising. Good posts and good points also hats off for not being posting the typical homer (all teams have them, UGA and GT have plenty on here) reply. Thank you for giving UGA credit for ‘42 Title. IMO UGA should have ‘42 or ‘46 I’m not going to argue which. Bama should have ‘66 for sure.
North Ave Jacket
April 10th, 2009
10:45 am
CurlyHeadedDevil, I’m fiddlin right now but it ain’t with my laptop. LOL!
Robot Roll Call!
Autobots
Decepticons
Tom
April 10th, 2009
10:45 am
Buckblue-
First of all check your facts on why the coaches left…especially Thompson(it had nothing to do with football). Second Saban has tons of coaches lining up to work under him. One he picked up played and coached for Au and the other worked for the NFL. If you don’t believe me ask anyone in the profession (that has a drive to win) who they would prefer to work under and Saban will be at the top of the list.
RTR
GeoffDawg
April 10th, 2009
10:47 am
I see your point Tide Rising and I concede that it does certainly go both ways. 2007 is a prime example of when Georgia got robbed of a national championship shot based on some arbitrary rule that you have to win the conference to play in the championship game. Oklahoma and Nebraska both played for the MNC in the BCS era without winning their conference but all of sudden, just when Georgia is poised to legitimately take the #2 poll slot, the media completely reverses its position from previous years and allows LSU to springboard into the game. If WV hadn’t lost to Pitt, there’s no way LSU jumps Georgia in the polls so why all of sudden does everyone think LSU is the better team? Case in point regarding why something so political and arbitrary should never be used as the barometer for the quality of a program.
Huh?
April 10th, 2009
10:49 am
Alabama’s 2009 regular season record: 10-2. The schedule is easy. The defense takes a step back but remains solid. The offense need only be adequate with the solid defense and easy schedule. 10-2 it is folks. Hate to play spoiler. It may even be enough for another SEC West crown. I think LSU will be overrated and I’ll buy Ole Miss only when I see it. Ole Miss is kind of the SEC version of Georgia Tech. Alot of hype coming in to 2009 but I’m not buying it just yet.
BILLY JACK
April 10th, 2009
10:51 am
Otto-your points about Bama and inflated national titles are a fact and they are undisputed.UGA could also make claims on many national championships but choose not to do so example-UGA was the definite national champions behind the hiesman trophey winner Frank Sinkwich with a 11-1 record Sinkwich immediatly joinded the marine corp right after the game to fight in world war 2.In 1946 they were national champions behind Charlie Trippi with a 11-0 record.UGA COULD HAVE PROBABLY WON 2 more national title 1944 and 1945 if Trippi had not gone off to war and did not return until 1946.The 1927 team was also awarded the national title with a 9-1 record but UGA does not officially count this one as Bama without a doubt would have.UGA also was awarde the nationa championship in 1968 with Bill Stanfill and Jake Scott two of the greatest defensive players in SEC history on that team but was upset by Arkansas in the sugar bowl.Alabama counts all thier national titles even the ones where they lost thier bowl games.The national championships were awarded before the bowl games back in those days.
Atlanta Gator
April 10th, 2009
10:54 am
Tide rising—-I’ve reviewed the 12* MNCs claimed by the Alabama athletic department on several occasions in answer to questions raised on these blogs and elsewhere. Otto overstates his case, but Alabama can legitimately claim four consensus titles (1925 poll majority, 1961 AP/UPI, 1979 AP/UPI, 1992 AP/UPI) and five split titles (1926, 1964 AP/UPI, 1965 AP, 1973 AP, 1978 AP).
I note for the record that the Tide lost its bowl game in 1964, after the final AP/UPI polls were released, but that was how the rankings were done then, and that’s all we have to work from. You can’t claim the AP/UPI championship in 1964, and then claim you were “jobbed” in 1966 because Alabama was an unpopular Southern school at the height of the civil rights controversy. Like I said, all we have are the polls. You can’t have it both ways.
Alabama’s MNC claims for 1930, 1934, 1945, 1966, 1975 and 1977 can only be generously described as “weak.” In each of those seasons, another school received the majority of the number one poll rankings, including the AP and UPI/Coaches polls in 1945, 1966, 1975 and 1977.
Bottom line: Giving Bama every benefit of the doubt, the Tide should probably only claim 9, not 12, MNCs.
My sources are Wikipedia and the College Football Data Warehouse, both available on line for free.
I will now retreat from the line of fire, and let everyone else have their say.
TIde rising
April 10th, 2009
10:56 am
Our schedule is set up very nicely. Much easier than last year when most of our tough games were on the road. This year our traditional tough opponents are all at home like UT (losing season last year) and LSU. Only Auburn(losing season last year) and Ole Miss are on the road.
Ole Miss, a team that has never won the division, figures to be our toughest competition for the west. LSU only won 3 conference games last year and while they will be improved they will already have a far tougher road to travel since they travel to Athens in the east, they play UF, and they come to Tuscaloosa. That right there puts them way behind the 8 ball.
We have 9 starters back on D. I do have to disagree with Tony on our lb depth. We’ve got several highly touted lb backups that were 4 and 5 star lb recruits coming out of high school that got experience last year. That position will actually be very deep.
On O-line we have been stockpiling 4 and 5 star linemen for a couple of years. There will be a drop off initially as far as experience goes but as far as talent goes there will be absolutely no drop off. We have 2 former 5 star rated offensive tackle recruits in soph. Tyler Love 6′7, 300lbs and DJ Fluker 6″7,350 lbs that may not even crack the starting lineup on o-line. That’s downright scary to think that kind of talent could very well end up riding the bench. Same thing at the lb position. We will have 2 former 5 star lb recruits in soph Jerrell Harris and Nico Johnson who will be riding the bench. Same thing with db. Former 5 star soph. recruits BJ Scott and Mark Barron will play as they did last year but will have trouble cracking the starting lineup.
Think about that for a moment. Numerous former experienced 5 star recruits at key positions on the o-line, linebacker, and db who will have to ride the bench I’ll just let that sink in for a moment for all the Bama haters.
Kinda scary aint it?
Area Sports Fan
April 10th, 2009
10:57 am
Ben Franklin was the fifth president of the United States. Like Atlanta Gator, my sources are wikipedia.
Otto
April 10th, 2009
10:58 am
Link to all 25 titles Bama could claim:
http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/sec/alabama/all_national_champs.php
Area Sports Fan
April 10th, 2009
10:59 am
Tide Rising, Georgia had 5 star recruit Jasper Sanks riding the bench for years. Same with Mudcat Elmore. That’s doesn’t always mean your team is loaded. Sometimes it means your five starts aren’t really worth five stars
Otto
April 10th, 2009
10:59 am
Atl Gator another you may find interesting http://www.appollarchive.com/football/
BILLY JACK
April 10th, 2009
10:59 am
I almost forgot-Bama surely got robbed in 1966 with Notre Dame and Michigan St playing for a tie.Notre Dame would of been beaten badly by the Bama team led by Kenny Stabler.Notre Dame should have that national championship revoked for the simple fact that they were cowards going for the tie and not the win vs Michigan ST.I am in Bamas corner on that one.
whitx2
April 10th, 2009
11:01 am
Lakerat, what makes you think that bama couldn’t match any offer ND or any other school could offer? I keep hearing this SOS about CNS leaving next year for this school or that school. ND, why go there and spend 2 or 3 years rebuilding CCW’s mess? Same job he stepped into at bama. NFL, been there, done that. CNS wants another NC. With 2 back to back recuiting classes that rank 1 and 2, he has a good shot at that NC in another 2 or 3 years, imo. So, can some of you people that keep saying Saban is leaving, give some reasons other than more money? And don’t say rabid fans, b/c fans of any school that has had success in the past and been down for years, are just as bad when they start having success again.
Otto
April 10th, 2009
11:08 am
Tide Rising, yes Bama is stacked and has the schedule to run the tables. If they do they should be in the national title game. I just hope Bama gels as a team enough for VT same goes for UGA and Okie State. OL is a tricky thing to have work together, us UGA fans know all about that. If they played the 3rd game in the season I would have no doubt Bama steam rolls VT.
LSU
April 10th, 2009
11:10 am
GeoffDawg
In 2007 UGA didn’t not even PLAY for the SECCG. Hence you don’t get a shot at playing for the NC. At least OU and Neb PLAYED, for the conference championship. Did you hear me? PLAYED FOR THE CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP. Please STFU with the uga got robbed in 2007 bullsh!t b/c if you don’t play in the SECCG how can you justify playing in the NC game. Dumb@ss redneck fans.
Okefenokee Dawg
April 10th, 2009
11:13 am
“Robot Roll Call” is just so “Techie”!
Atlanta Gator
April 10th, 2009
11:13 am
Otto—-In 1952, Georgia Tech received 5 of 16 number one poll rankings. Michigan State received 11 of 16 number one poll rankings, including the number one rankings in both the AP poll and UPI/Coaches poll. Any way you slice it, the Spartans were the 1952 consensus national champions.
From time to time, there may have been a Big Ten/northeastern bias in the polls, but there was no “Pac-10″ bias in 1952. The Big Five conference, the predecessor to the Pac-10, was not formed until 1959, and did not become the Pac-8 until 1968.
Again, all we have are the polls to go by. You can’t call out other fans for overstating their claims for MNCs in years when their team did not receive at least a majority of the number one poll rankings at the end of the season, and then not recognize the same “rule” applies to yours. Sorry, but you can’t argue it one way for one team and season, and another way for another team and season.
And, if you’re going to claim bias in the polls, well, then the whole darn exercise is pointless, including the claims to MNCs when your team was the clear “consensus” champion. Then what would argue about?
BILLY JACK
April 10th, 2009
11:15 am
LSU-UGA 3-1 VS LSU lately remember the last time you were in Athens 45-16 I thought that would refresh your memory.
TIde rising
April 10th, 2009
11:16 am
Atlanta Gator,
As usual the poster board voice of reason makes a well reasoned notation. 9 mythical ncs is a number I frequently see unbiased observers come up with.
I understand your assertion that we can’t legitimately claim the 1964 poll when we lost our bowl game and then claim we were jobbed of other titles. You can’t have it both ways and on that point I agree. But if I research it I can probably come up with a 1 or 2 years where Bama finished 2nd or 3rd and the 1 or 2 teams ahead of Bama lost their bowl games after already being polled as national champions.
My point is that if folks are going to say we didn’t deserve certain national titles for whatever reason then they should also acknowledge the fact that there were several years where we legitimately were the best team in the country and were denied. I reiterate that 1966 and 1976 stand out as 2 years where most reasonable, objective people would definitely agree that we should have won it. That’s all.
Also, the bias at that time against giving ncs to southern schools was not imaginary. It was real and was one reason that pushed sec schools towards integration in the 70s. There was bias as early as the 1920s against southern teams. Hence the rose bowl was initially played usually between a northern team and a west coast team because the southern football was generally dismissed as irrelevant until Bama went and beat Wash. State in the 1925 Rose Bowl. That opened up southern football and a new found level of respect to the rest of the nation. You’re welcome Southern football fans.
In summation its a wash on some of these mythical national titles as to which ones were truly deserved and which ones weren’t since its poll based.
Huh?
April 10th, 2009
11:17 am
If Georgia had PLAYED for the SECCG in 2007 it all would have been a moot point anyway. We would have kicked the everloving s**t out of LSU. Richt owns Miles and we were playing lightyears better than LSU was at the end of the season. You know it too you trailer trash cajun. You’re talking a big game know but you know deep down in your insecure little heart that LSU wanted no part of UGA in the SECCG. Your national title is a total joke. Good day.
Atlanta Gator
April 10th, 2009
11:18 am
Otto—-Thanks for the AP Polls vault link. Good stuff. I have added it to my bookmarked sites.
Of course, the AP Poll does not address the pre-1936 claims, which is when the MNC claims get really messy for many years.
LSU
April 10th, 2009
11:23 am
“If Georgia had PLAYED for the SECCG in 2007 it all would have been a moot point anyway. ”
Please look at the first word in that sentence. IF..which means you did not. Your right I didn’t want to play uga, I won’t deny that fact but to keep hearing you piss and moan about being robbed is total bullsh!t. If our 2007 title is joke so is your 1942 title. At least ALL the ones we claim are concenus titles.
Now get back to digging my ditch Huh?..
Otto
April 10th, 2009
11:25 am
Atl. Gator I only said GT could argue for it, the AP poll was not taken after the Bowls.
As for the PAC8 bias. USC was #5 and UCLA #6 in ‘52 each with 1 loss. Ole Miss was 8-0-2 at #7. USC was #2 in the 2nd to last AP Poll in ‘52. As Tide Rising pointed out the Rose Bowl has always carried weight even if the game had not even been played yet.
APPollarchive dot com has all AP rankings.
The AP did not include Bowls until ‘65.
lakerat
April 10th, 2009
11:27 am
whitx2 -
Alabamer CAN match whatever – no question there. But, St. Nick has already proven it’s not about the money – though that really helps – it is all ego with him. And, the point is, Saban cannot live up to the hype/expectations, and when the team regresses this year (at least in the fans’ minds), and possibly next year, the AL folks will be calling for his removal just as they did with other coaches previously. They just cannot help themselves, nor can St. Nick!
Atlanta Gator
April 10th, 2009
11:30 am
Tide rising—-I could have easily selected “The Voice of Reason” as my AJC blog handle, but, personally, I think “Atlanta Gator” is much more memorable given the inherent contradiction.
The whole MNC history is fun to argue over, but it’s not a life-and-death topic. Given the current economy, we could all use a little distraction, to be sure.
From my objective viewpoint, I am of the opinion that no college football fan should be able to claim any MNC for their team before the 1996 season.
TIde rising
April 10th, 2009
11:31 am
Otto,
25 national titles for Alabama? I’m a rabid Alabama fan but I’m not freaking crazy! I’m even happy with 7-9 ncs being generally acknowledge. Doesn’t really matter though. Football history is interesting and while I’m proud of and Iove our tradition it is all in the past and I like to think of the future.
We still have the crazies who think that Bama should win ncs every year or else we’re down in the dumps. Its a little irrational but the reality is that most Bama fans like myself are now rational. Our expectation is simply to be competitive for the sec west and conference championship. If you win the sec you should naturally be in a decent position in most years to be in the top 2 to compete for the nc.
We don’t have to win an nc this year and personally I don’t think its reasonable to think that we will. It is fully reasonable for us to expect to be competitive from here going forward in the west and for sec titles here and there. No one will consistently ever dominate again like the Bear or like Spurrier. Even Meyer has had a great 3 year run but that won’t last forever either.
I think we will have a very good season because the depth is being built in a hurry. We’ll stumble somewhere probably once or twice. This is the sec after all.
Got 12?
April 10th, 2009
11:38 am
BAMA fans (and Auburn fans, to a lesser degree):
Iron Bowl to be shown on CBS — and played on a Friday — in 2009 and 2010!
TIde rising
April 10th, 2009
11:40 am
Atlanta Gator,
Duly noted about the economy. Which reminds me. I need to quit blogging and BSing about mythical national titles and actually get some work done today.
Before I go I stated that we will stumble once or twice during the regular season. That’s my hope anyway. We could stumble more and lose 3 regular season games but I don’t see that because the schedule is so much easier than last year, most of the tough games are at home, and the depth will be substantially better than last year.
But I’m hoping for a 10-2 or even a 11-1 regular season. Irrational or unreasonable? I am a Bama fan after all.
LSWho?
April 10th, 2009
11:42 am
Atlanta Gator, I usually enjoy your posts, but “From my objective viewpoint, I am of the opinion that no college football fan should be able to claim any MNC for their team before the 1996 season.”?
Is this for real or did someone hijack your handle?
GeoffDawg
April 10th, 2009
11:42 am
STFU LSU? Lol – really hit a nerve there, didn’t I?
Bamafan
April 10th, 2009
11:42 am
Bama will be good this season and the defense better wake up after that pathetic showing in the Sugar Bowl. Atlanta Gator you are best blogger on Tony’s storys day in day out!! Bama will be better at QB this year but the offense line is going to be the problem this year!! Saban has earned his money
by bringing the crimson tide out of the wilderness back to a top team in the SEC!!
GO BAMA ROLL TIDE!!
Otto
April 10th, 2009
11:42 am
Tide Rising lol I posted that for the guys that said Bama would claim anything and everything. As you can tell I love debating this stuff. Yes sometimes I’ll even spark it besides its April what else is going on.
The ‘25 Rose was big. UGA played Yale in Sanford to open the stadium and won another big step for the south. After Bama’s win other SEC teams went including UGA, GT, and Tenn and all had a winning record except Tenn. The Rose was turning into Pacific Coastal vs Southern matchup before WW2 but then TV came in and the Big10 vs PAC8 contract. Check out cfbdatawarehouse.
Never say never nobody thought someone would dominate like the Bear but Spurrier had a solid run. The Bear’s run was obviously longer. Many have siad we are in the new golden ages of SEC coaches the best since the 60’s. It is a good time to be a SEC fan.
GeoffDawg
April 10th, 2009
11:46 am
BTW LSU – why do you need a ditch? Installing a latrine behind that trailer?