Who do you want to know more about?
Before I get to the promised blog about the developmental camp the Thrashers will have next week – July 10-15 – let me do a little housekeeping.
1. I apologize to Jason(Darkhorse). I did indeed change the main blog a couple of times yesterday – it started with the Thorburn signing before the Antropov move went down. So, he was indeed talking about Thorburn as a 4th-liner. Didn’t mean to make you look like “one of the looney posters on the Thrashers message boards” Darkhorse.
2. Waddell is the one that told us about the text message from Kovy (Tim, I had it on this blog first, read my comments). I was asking Waddell about how the Antropov signing would affect the negotiations with Kovy. It came up a little bit into the conversation. I don’t think it was a plant, he was simply answering a question.
Now, I need your help. I will post the roster for the developmental camp below. Take a look at it and let me know who you would like to know more about. I plan to do a story on Evander Kane, Carl Klinsberg, Jeremy Morin, Angelo Esposito and Vinny Saponari.
Let me know what other players you would like to hear about and I’ll try to get to them.
Also, let me say how well I think this blog is going. It’s a new media for me, but I think we have a lot to talk about and for the most part (yeah, we’re talking about Joey again) your comments have been very insightful – about the Thrashers and the NHL. I’m no Rawhide, but I’m working on it. Let’s see how we do in August (I have more vacation planned ), but so far, so good.
Thanks everybody.
Development Camp Roster
FORWARDS (21)
John Albert, Spencer Anderson *, Jimmy Bubnick, Cody Crichton *, Angelo Esposito, Mike Forney, Riley Holzapfel, Doug Jones*, Evander Kane, Carl Klingberg, Daultan Leveille, Levko Koper, Andrew Kozek, Spencer Machacek, Jeremy Morin, Eric O’Dell, Danick Paquette, Kyle Reed*, Jordan Samuels, Vinny Saponari , Victor Saponari *
DEFENSEMEN (8)
Ben Chiarot, Jay Gilbert*, Mike Looby*, Will O’Neill, Drew Paris*, Paul Postma, Cody Sol, Zach Redmond
GOALTENDERS (4)
Chris Carrozzi, Chris Kamal*, Taylor Nelson*, Ed Pasquale
* – Invitee who is not property of the Thrashers
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136 comments Add your comment
Sara
July 3rd, 2009
11:12 am
Daultan Leveille please. Maybe Eric O’Dell as well. Oh and Riley Holzapfel…real curious to see if he makes the team this year.
Hey – just looked back at that list…where’s Lasu?? He was here last year for camp IIRC.
GTthrashfan
July 3rd, 2009
11:38 am
Just because the entire list is Offense so far…. how about I throw out the names of Postma, Sol and Pasquale.
MB
July 3rd, 2009
11:45 am
Agree with Sara on Leveille and Holzapfel, and would like to hear from Machacek as well.
Alan
July 3rd, 2009
11:49 am
O’Neill and Postma would be nice to hear about.
Also, I have to echo Sara’s sentiments: Where’s Nicklas Lasu in that list?
Tim
July 3rd, 2009
11:50 am
No problem Chris. I was just simply replying to the post above me that ask for confirmation about Kovy being happy with Antropov signing
Thrashers27
July 3rd, 2009
11:51 am
I’ll second Postma. If he can put up numbers even close to what he was doing in juniors, he’ll be a sweet addition to our defense. O’Dell too. Don’t know much about him, other than he is supposed to be a decent picup.
Nikita
July 3rd, 2009
12:03 pm
Spencer Machacek. Maybe Paul Postma, as well — he performed out of lin with expectations last year.
ranallo10 (in AT)
July 3rd, 2009
12:05 pm
I’d be interested in hearing from O’Dell, Holzapfel and Macacek about what type of skill they feel they bring to the table (i.e., what type of player they are and how they could contribute at the NHL level).
Thrashers27
July 3rd, 2009
12:20 pm
I just looked on the Thrashers web-site and there’s no mention of Lasu on the official list either. Wonder what gives with him.
Darkhorse
July 3rd, 2009
12:58 pm
No worries Chris…thanks.
I would also like to hear more about Postma and where Esposito is at in development after the broken leg. We don’t have a plethora of legit looking top 6 forwards in our system it seems, so where does management and he(Espo) think he’s at? Also, guys like Lasu and other European prospects not named Nukilin are of interest too. Not too many of us saw Enstrom bursting onto the scene like he did. Is there another guy from across the pond that may do so this season? What is up with the Zubarev kid? Will we even ever see him?
Really, let’s hear about them all
How about an in-depth story a week starting after development camp going until right before training camp? That would give us something to blog/read about during the NHL graveyard period.
Brendan
July 3rd, 2009
1:01 pm
I’m very much in agreement with the names already listed. But I’ll list them again, Riley Holzapfel, Daultan Leveille (29th overall pick, 2008, Michigan State), Spencer Machacek, and Eric O’Dell (Christen trade from Anaheim, former 2nd round pick from 2008). I’d like to add Paul Postma, Andrew Kozek, Zach Redmond (7th round pick, 2008), and goalie Chris Carrozzi. Just some random quotes would be good. Doesn’t have to be a feature story.
If you’ll indulge me, Chris, I have a specific question I’d like posed to Will O’Neill. Here, now, the question, “How does it feel to know you are the last remnant of the Thrashers 1st ever draft pick, Patrik Stefan?” My guess … is that he has no idea that’s the case, and it’s never occurred to him that his acquisition had any ties whatsoever to the Inaugural season of the franchise. But on June 24, 2006, Will O’Neill was drafted by Atlanta in the 7th round of the 2006 draft with the pick formerly held by Dallas, as part of a trade that sent Niko Kapanen to Atlanta in exchange for Jaroslav “Slowdry” Modry and former 1st overall selection, from 1999, Patrik Stefan. So, the pressure’s on, right? He BETTER SUCCEED! Chuckling. Otherwise, the 1st overall pick of the 1999 Draft was a total bust. Anywho, I appreciate the job you’re doing, Chris Vivlamore. There’s nothing wrong with taking some vacation time in August. There won’t be anything going on here then, unless Kovalchuk up and re-signs at that time. Someone has to text Kovalchuk not to re-sign during Vivlamore’s next vacation. Otherwise, certain bloggers will never let him forget that he was away when it happened. Likewise, if the organization has some epiphany, and fires Waddell or suddenly promotes Dudley to GM, it will stir the masses for a fresh blog.
Why is N. Lasu pulling a Houdini?
World Be Free
July 3rd, 2009
1:01 pm
Still looking for another free agent signing. Development is good, but we need more vetran depth to win this coming season.
Jimbo
July 3rd, 2009
1:03 pm
O’dell, Postma and tough guy Dan Paquette.
Sean
July 3rd, 2009
1:06 pm
In order:
Machacek
Holzapfel
Postma
Leveille
Paquette
Chris Vivlamore
July 3rd, 2009
2:17 pm
Thanks to Tim and Darkhorse for understanding!
I will look into Lasu. I double-checked my list and he is not on it. Could be a miss or he won’t be there. I’ll get on it Monday. I have to finish a story on the Braves and cover the Dream game tonight.
Thanks very much all on input. We are starting to get quite a list. I think I know the answer to this already, but maybe you guys would like to see occasional updates on prospects during the season? Might be a way to get to some of those I won’t be able to talk to next week. I will get to as many as I can. Also I trust the names you are mentioning are in addition to those I had named?
Keep ‘em coming.
Spud Webb
July 3rd, 2009
2:53 pm
Chris, where is the developmental camp held at?
Sara
July 3rd, 2009
2:54 pm
Chris I asked Ben about Lasu and he said it isn’t uncommon for the Europeans to not come over for prospect camp, particularly if they are still under contract to their current team. I gather he’s talking in generals but that’s likely the explanation for Lasu.
Hockey Biltong
July 3rd, 2009
2:55 pm
Did we let go of Hoffman??? He kept breaking his wrists fighting or something like that?
Supes
July 3rd, 2009
3:08 pm
More on Evander Kane please.
Thrashers27
July 3rd, 2009
3:16 pm
Hockey Biltong: I just looked on the roster and Hoffman is no longer listed as “In the System”.
Chris: I’m almost certain he won’t be at the development camp, but I woulnd’t mind learning more about Stapler and if, when and where he’ll come into the mix here in Atlanta. He’s put up some decent numbers throughout his career. He could be a surprise, or he could be another Sterling.
ranallo10 (in AT)
July 3rd, 2009
3:19 pm
Vivlamore — Your audience is relatively hardcore Thrasher fans…of course we’d appreciate constant updates on our prospects. I think that’d be a cool ongoing feature for you to give a brief on one prospect per week, or bi-weekly. It definitely gives us something to ingest and direct quotes is always nice to hear from players within the system (how they feel about their own development, what their coaches are helping them work on, what their immediate goals are for their own development, etc).
Obviously questions like “how do you feel about being drafted by Atlanta” are a waste of time, but sometimes it’s nice to see how the player perceives himself in relation to the big team, and how he feels the team would benefit from the addition of him to the roster. Playing style, strengths, areas for improvement…all are great to hear firsthand so to speak.
ranallo10 (in AT)
July 3rd, 2009
3:28 pm
Vivlamore — Can you give us any insight into the players who have not been re-signed as of yet, such as Oystrick or Crabb?
R. Stroz
July 3rd, 2009
4:27 pm
From a human interest/conversation starter, I have a few questions.
Since Carl Klingberg has come across as a player with a good sense of humor, ask him the best practical joke he has ever played on someone.
In regards to Jeremy Morin. he is known as a sniper with less than steller skating ability. Would you ask him if his friends have ever refered to him as “Happy Gilmore?”
Well that should get a conversation started.
R. Stroz
July 3rd, 2009
4:34 pm
My questions should have been prefaced for Chris Vivlamore to ask at prospect camp. OOPS!
Get The Puck Out
July 3rd, 2009
5:18 pm
I wonder if the two Saponari’s are brothers?
ranallo10 (in AT)
July 3rd, 2009
5:25 pm
They are, and are from Georgia (Powder Springs I think).
hoff-less
July 3rd, 2009
5:29 pm
I would also like to know about Hoffman’s future. Or just tell DW to please re-sign him, use your ajc clout, buy him a taco or something. We need the Hoff.
World Be Free
July 3rd, 2009
6:03 pm
Are we going to sign any more free agents? The list of good players is dwindling.
Tim
July 3rd, 2009
7:01 pm
Get the puck out: yes, both Saponaris are sibbling.
Jimbo
July 3rd, 2009
7:47 pm
The older Saponari is grandfather to the younger Saponari.
MB
July 3rd, 2009
8:10 pm
I wouldn’t count on anything too big, WBF, based upon D-Wadd’s earlier comments to Vivlamore. He basically said maybe a depth guy or two, but the big signings are over. Check Viv’s earlier stories/blogs for the actual quotes.
UpperDeck4Life
July 3rd, 2009
9:41 pm
Chris I would like to know a little more about Albert, the Center from Ohio State. What kind of minutes he will see this year at Ohio State. Which special team unit he will be on. Will he be on the top line or second line on 5 v 5, etc.
As far as defenseman, I wouldn’t mind knowing more about Postma.
Thanks
Hockey Biltong
July 3rd, 2009
9:51 pm
Where in the hell is Brett Favre ??? He was supposed to be in camp???
World Be Free
July 3rd, 2009
11:18 pm
MB-I agree and there are plenty of depth guys out there and we could use one or two character guys
Sara
July 3rd, 2009
11:30 pm
WBF – when we say depth at this point, think AHLers who are available for call-ups. Don specifically talked about how Chicago has gotten somewhat depleted and that we were fortunate not to run into too many injuries last season. Unless they decide to replace Perrin straight up (versus letting Kane or another prospect fill that hole), I do not really expect to see anyone signed for the roster next season. Anyone else will be on two-way contracts.
li'l help....
July 4th, 2009
12:28 am
Forgive me, but what are the names of some of the other Thrasher forums/message boards? One used to be atlthrahsers.com but that was moved (or something along those lines). I thank you all in advance for any responses.
Sadtoseeitthisway
July 4th, 2009
12:46 am
To those of you asking why not Hoffman on this list? The mission here is to evaluate. Bringing in a healthy Hoffman or someone of his MO is counterproductive. These “prospects” want to walk away from this camp with all their marbles intact. They want to have it all together when they are at a for real camp,trying to make a regular season roster come September.
muttonsourdough
July 4th, 2009
1:09 am
Chris Vivlamore – My Firefox-search-this-page-for-this-text feature didnt find anyone requesting you take a look into Levko Koper. Ive seen a few places where they called him Levko the Lionheart, and Id be interested to know more about the kid. Stats-wise, his GP, G, A, Pts, and PIMs increased significantly over his 3 years in juniors (PIMs not as significantly though) so he seems to be something of a late bloomer with good heart. NHL’s prospect page on him shows him at 6-0 and 180, and the things Ive heard/read about him make a pretty strong case for him as captain material. I also seem to recall he wore a letter for his team this past season.
I found a page (written 30 May 2009) that assessed him over at blogspot, something like “NHL Draft Notes” or something, but I find it difficult to believe what was written because they pegged Levko to go in the 2nd round, maybe late 1st. Said hes a great playoff performer who may cruise sometimes but the more important the game the better he plays. Again, hard to accept it unconditionally because they said theyd be “totally shocked” if he was taken as late as Central Scouting said (which was a few rounds earlier than we got him) but its there.
All that mumbo-jumbo to say that Id like to know a little more about this kid with such a badass name.
Hockey Biltong
July 4th, 2009
2:44 am
Thanks Thrashers27, for the info. Hoffman had a bit of a buzz surrounding him last year, but injury kept him below the radar. Not sure if he was let go or just moved on. I’ll get Chris or Bill to chime in, unless Sara or Ranallo in Austria knows….WBFREE??? Russian???
Sharon
July 4th, 2009
5:30 am
I’d like to hear about Vinny Saponari and Chris Carrozzi.
Thrashers27
July 4th, 2009
6:49 am
Yeah, I wanted to see him here in Atlanta for his size and grit. Looked like a fun piece to have in the few pre-season gamews I was able to see him in.
World Be Free
July 4th, 2009
8:16 am
You know Sara, I am looking for a signing of a player that comes from a winner. Travis Moen and Todd Marchant come to mind, not that Samuellson is in Vancouver.
These are the guys you need to add to the roster. Players that have gone deep into the playoffs and know how to inject winning into a franchise.
We still need more guys that are winning to take a hit to make a play. You know, Rick Dudley type players. Add Mike Grier to this list.
Don, the work is not done yet. Don’t stop now!
World Be Free
July 4th, 2009
8:38 am
Interesting piece on the Thrashers out of Canada-
Am interested to see if the additions of two ex-Leafs, Nikolai Antropov and Pavel Kubina, can finally lift the Atlanta Thrashers out of their decade-long funk. The Thrashers were one of those teams, badly out of the playoff hunt at the all-star break, that showed a pulse down the stretch, under coach John Anderson. These surges, in a no-pressure situation, tend to be mirages usually, although the Thrashers do finally have a couple of interesting young pieces on defence in Zach Bogosian, who was excellent down the stretch, and Tobias Enstrom, only two years removed from all-rookie status. If the goaltending sorts itself out, maybe the Thrashers compete
ThrashDawg
July 4th, 2009
8:42 am
Why is Kulda not going to be there? He was at the camp last year.
Chris Vivlamore
July 4th, 2009
9:35 am
Spud Webb: Development Camp is held at the Thrashers practice facility – the Duluth IceForum. All practices are free and open to the public.
ranallo10 (in AT): Shoot me if I ever ask a question like “how do you feel about being drafted by Atlanta!” Also, I will be pursuing the status of those players offered qualifying offers and the likes of Oystrick and Crabb.
World Be Free: Another free agent signing may be coming, but it won’t be big. Waddell said he is just looking for depth now.
World Be Free
July 4th, 2009
10:18 am
Thanks Chris-quality, character depth is a very good thing!
Nouah
July 4th, 2009
12:28 pm
Daultan Leveillé and Dannick Paquette
Alan
July 4th, 2009
12:34 pm
I understand your want to sign more players “from a winner” WBF; however, ask yourself: Where do we put them? Who do we dump? It’s not like last year, where we had players like Klee and Larsen taking up space. The fourth line is the fourth line, and as badly as I didn’t want to see Thorburn re-signed, he’s here. Boulton is the tough guy, and Slater is, well, Slater. Third line is pretty much solid – Kane or no Kane. Second and First lines are untouchable.
So, who do we get rid of?
Rockem Sockem Thrasher
July 4th, 2009
12:43 pm
Is Angelo Esposito really ready? I’ve heard that he isn’t even skating yet.
World Be Free
July 4th, 2009
12:46 pm
Alan-dump Slater. He’s like Ex, he’s a reminder of our sorry past. Dump Slater, bring in Todd Marchant.
Marchant is a better penalty killer, faceoff man and scorer. He has scored Game 7 winners (in OT no less). Slater is a novelty; Marchant is a winner.
Washington has an explosive power play, Tampa has just become better, quick. Let’s not get too giddy about what’s gone on this week.
Injuried happen too-quality, experienced, proven depth is what we need.
Alan
July 4th, 2009
1:32 pm
I would argue, however, that Marchant isn’t a fourth line player. From what I’ve read, keeping him there is a waste of talent and money.
Depth is, however, exactly what we need. Waddell said (key word: “SAID”) he would address depth next, which is why I posed the question when you mentioned players like Moen and Marchant. Neither of those guys are fourth liners, nor are they AHLers. We’re looking at keeping Chicago stocked for when one of our guys here goes down, not at bringing in more roster players. That’s all I’m saying.
JB
July 4th, 2009
3:04 pm
Depth has came: Drew MacIntyre to Atlanta
I believe I spelled his last name correctly. He is a clear cut starter in the AHL with a 41-24 record in ‘07-’08 and a 46-25 record last year; something is going on here. Either Moose is gone to clear room for Pavs to back up Kari, or Kari is gone to give Pavs the job here or Pavs is gone and we just signed his AHL replacement.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8469569
ranallo10 (in AT)
July 4th, 2009
4:03 pm
“To those of you asking why not Hoffman on this list? The mission here is to evaluate. Bringing in a healthy Hoffman or someone of his MO is counterproductive.”
The reason he’s not on the list is he’s an unrestricted free agent. The other reason is because he’s not a prospect and thus does not need to be evaluated for his “NHL readiness” like the other young guys do. That second point is also why you don’t see Sterling on the list.
World Be Free
July 4th, 2009
4:23 pm
Alan, I understand your point and I agree with hwhat you have stated.
I think alotta Thrashers’ fans are pleased with the direction of the team, in the sense that we finished the season strong and added some quality players in the last week or so. But I am not satisfied, in the sense that we do not have enough NHL ready players that will push the current crew. As positive as we may feel, this team still has back to back 76 point results to show for the efforts.
I think Moen, Grier ot Marchant would come here for a chance to push someone for a job. None of those 3 guys are superstars, they are all workers, lunch bucket guys. If they have play 4th line for awhile, they will because they’ve done it before. I want our backups to be proven NHL players, instead of veteran AHL-ers.
And Slater has to go. He can’t score, he rarely hits and he cannot win a faceoff to save his life.
ranallo10 (in AT)
July 4th, 2009
5:13 pm
World Be Free — Jim Slater was 5th on the team in hits with 85. He also led the team in faceoff percentage with 53% won. Unfortunately his 4th line status means he only took 245 faceoffs, which ranked him 5th behind Perrin, Reasoner, Peverley and White.
So I think the only argument you have again him that can stick is his inability to score…which lucky for him is not the purpose of the 4th line.
ranallo10 (in AT)
July 4th, 2009
5:15 pm
Excuse me, he took the 4th most faceoffs on the team. The leaders were (in order) White, Reasoner, Peverly, Slater. Slater WON 245 faceoffs, but took 462 in total.
Jameson
July 4th, 2009
5:34 pm
Another thing about Lasu is if I remember correctly, players have to pay their own way to get to development camp. That may have just been NCAA players, but if it is everyone, then that would explain reluctance to repeat the prospect camp for him this year.
Brendan
July 4th, 2009
5:37 pm
I can appreciate the sentiment that “Slater is a reminder of our sorry past.” I think the biggest knock against Slater is his draft position, because that’s what is causing EXPECTATION LEVEL to rise. But if you’re capable of overlooking his draft position, and just evaluating Slater for his role, 4th line center, then potting about 10 goals and getting 25-35 points, seems about right to me. The next typical knock on Slater is his salary. Unless the team goes abover $850,000 a year for his services, he’ll be paid appropriately, given his status as a former 1st round pick, and his tenure in the NHL. Those ARE things that contribute to a slightly elevated salary for Slater. But really, who thinks Slater’s salary is “breaking the bank?” Not meee. If we cut Slater loose, his UFA replacement will make between $600,000 to $750,000. And is anyone really going to argue over $100K to $250K for this position? I do realize … it’s the Atlanta Spirit, LLC that we’re talking about. And they like to find inexpensive solutions to GAPING problems, generally-speaking. But I cannot truly complain about Slater as the 4th line Center. Honestly, what I like best about Slater … is his ability to draw a penalty with his speed. Could Slater be the 4th line Center on Detroit? No. San Jose? Probably not. Phoenix? Yes. NY Islanders? Yes. So, given our market and league situation, Slater might be the best option we have, for the price range of $600K to $850K. If this ownership would open the wallet for a $1.5 million 4th line Center, we’d find better than Slater. It won’t. Is my guess.
Jameson
July 4th, 2009
5:38 pm
I’m not sure I agree with those hoping to see Kane on the third line this year. Some have said before that putting a scoring talent in a checking roll often doesn’t work, and I could see it slowing his development on the offensive side of the ice. I think the only way I’d like to see him there is if we had a third scoring line, like we did for a short time with the rookie line a couple of years ago.
I think it makes more sense to put someone like Holzapfel or LaVallee in that roll, or bring in a free agent. Which of those options do you guys prefer?
ranallo10 (in AT)
July 4th, 2009
6:31 pm
Jameson — I agree, in my opinion Kane does not belong on the third line (a shutdown line for this roster, not a scoring line). That’s not a line a scoring prospect should learn at the NHL level. If he cannot fill in on the top two lines then I think he’s better served going back to the WHL for further seasoning (with those 9 games of NHL eligibility fully used).
I prefer signing Marcel Goc or bringing up LaVallee (or Crabb if re-signed). Stuart had been my third line winger preference prior to the Kubina trade. I don’t think Machacek is suited for that line.
Jameson
July 4th, 2009
6:49 pm
ranallo- After reading the Falconer’s blog about the PK, I definitely think that the open spot on the third line needs to be filled with someone who can help in that department. I thought Stuart did a good job with that, but after checking the stats, maybe he wasn’t doing as well as I thought. It could’ve been bias from enjoying his short handed goals. He was who I liked in that spot before the trade, also.
Does anyone know whether LaVallee or Holzapfel do much for a PK?
I’m starting to think it may be a good move to make a run at Stephane Veillieux or Dan Hinote.
kracker
July 4th, 2009
7:19 pm
Chris, I saw an interesting bullet point in an article in today’s AJC about commercial real estate in the Atlanta area. The bullet points listed firms looking to lease space. “Atlanta Spirit is seeking 50,000 square feet.”
The only Atlanta Spirit I know of is the corporation that owns the Thrashers, Hawks and Philips Arena. Are they expanding? Is the current lease expiring? Maybe they aren’t as broke as they let on, eh?
kracker
July 4th, 2009
7:48 pm
JB – Interesting about Drew McIntyre. Here’s more…
Drew MacIntyre with Atlanta
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=659836
World Be Free
July 5th, 2009
8:39 am
Brendan and Ranallo-I understand where you guys are coming from on Jim Slater.
My issues-Slater does not provide the winning difference in any game. He hits, but I cannot remember a Jim Slater bone-crushing body check. He does not fight (wears a visor) and he’s not on the ice to take crutial faceoffs late in the game.
My point is simple-we can do better without breaking the bank. There’s still alot of talent out there to take his place.
Winners push guys that have not won consistantly at the NHL level. There’s guys available that can provide the difference in close games, something Jimmy cannot do.
Sara
July 5th, 2009
10:25 am
Jameson only NCAA players have to pay their way to prospect camps. They also cannot take part in the prospect tourney in Traverse City each year.
WBF Slater does actually fight – he got in a couple last season alone. But that isn’t his job any more than it’s Ilya’s job. That’s what Boulton is here for (and presumably to a lesser extent Boris, Thorburn, and previously XLB). He’s gone when he’s had to, which is good enough. Besides which, Slater’s a PKer – PKers are supposed to avoid being the ones in the box.
As far as Kane not being appropriate on the third checking line…why not? Says what hockey bible? More established teams with better depth do start their prospects out on 3rd lines or 3rd D pairings their first season or two. It’s like with Bogosian last season…there was really nothing more he was going to learn playing on his juniors team so the best course for his development was to make the jump to the NHL. If we had a legit top 4 last season, he would have played on the third pairing. If Kane is ready for the NHL jump and the top 6 have already been set, he’ll play on the 3rd line. He can learn just as much playing alongside Army and Reasoner as he would playing alongside Kovy or Slava. The first season is about getting acclimated to the NHL itself – it’s speed, grit, size, and pressures. A player can learn that on any line.
GaVaHokie
July 5th, 2009
10:59 am
Chris… I’d be interested, next time you talk to Waddell, if we made offers for any other teams RFA’s besides just our own.
Brendan
July 5th, 2009
11:12 am
World Be Free, if the organization can find better than Jim Slater, then I support the decision to upgrade the roster. If we’re talking about the Atlanta Spirit, they don’t know the difference between a 4th line center and a 4th line clothespin. It’s up to Don Waddell, and now Dudley, to advise them on matters of roster. If DW and Dudley say, “Bruce. We’ve identified a problem on our 4th line. We need a new Center. And it’ll cost $1.5 million.” Bruce will rub his chin, pause, then say, “And so what you’re telling me is … with this 4th line Center, Atlanta will win the Stanley Cup, or come something close to doing that?” If Waddell and Dudley can manage not to burst out laughing from that moment forward, they’ll probably get the “greenlight” to go upgrade the 4th line. But when that playoff berth doesn’t materialize, Bruce won’t be laughing. He’ll say, “I trusted you, and you played me.” Don and Dudley would be wiser to ask for a Tier I Center or Defender, begging for another $3.5 to $4.5 million in increased payroll to fill that more critical need. If this team’s “Opening Night” payroll is MORE than $48 million, I’ll be pleasantly STUNNED. If they were to be over $50 million, GASP, I’d actually think they were tryyyyying to keep Kovalchuk.
World Be Free
July 5th, 2009
11:14 am
To all that like Jim Slater-
I have nothing against him, but I know we can do better. As Brendan pointed out, Slater would not be a 4th line center on Detroit or San Jose, so why is he good enough for us when there’s better talent out there?
Jimmy does not do excel in any element required to warrant a spot on an NHL roster, so why is he good enough for us? Brian Botano skates fast, but that doesn’t mean I want him playing for the Thrashers.
I have no desire to be like Phoenix or the Islanders, I prefer to be like Detroit! We have to start thinking like Detroit.
Darkhorse
July 5th, 2009
11:56 am
Per Falconer’s blog, looks like we have resigned Joey Crabb and signed another AHL goaltender with a little NHL experience. I guess Crabb was brought back after they traded Stuart to take his spot. No terms known yet, and I hope it’s a two way deal.
Two solid AHL goalies in two days that could be called up on emergency status allows for speculation of Pavs or Kari being traded to be turned up a notch or so. I would love to see an out of nowhere trade with San Jose or Chicago for one of those teams top guys. Just dreaming I suppose….
http://www.birdwatchersanonymous.com/
World Be Free
July 5th, 2009
12:09 pm
Brendan, I cannot agrue with what you have stated at all. I make my judgements purely from a hockey standpoint, not taking into consideration what management may or may not do.
It’s the distance between the Thrashers’ payroll and the salary cap that makes many of us think our needs in relation to “what if” we could spend more.
Brendan
July 5th, 2009
12:17 pm
World Be Free, if Atlanta were a Hockeytown, the way Detroit is, we wouldn’t have to beg for scraps and struggle to meet the floor of the salary cap. But more to the point, Levenson, the Gearons, Beau Turner, Rutherford Seydell, Ed Pescowitz, and Belkin will never be mistaken for Mike Ilitch. So, I don’t see Atlanta becoming, even in thought, like Detroit anytime soon. If Jim Slater is not renewed, it won’t be the death knell of this franchise. He can be replaced. If some team called to ask for Slater, and they offered something of need, I’d waive bye-bye to Jimmy and wish him well. Truthfully, I don’t know that DW has ever fielded an offer for Slater. Chances are, only teams like Phoenix and the Islanders would. And what would we take off their hands?
Nikita
July 5th, 2009
1:28 pm
Seconding WBF here.
Slater does fight. In fact, he’s great at it, but he takes care of business rather than agitates and it’s not his primary role. That said, I think we can do better than Slater or Thorburn, and I think both are obvious candidates for deal sweeteners. Specifically, if we could get a solid 4th-line guy who’s good on the PK, I think we should upgrade.
Kane on the third…why not? For starters, our third isn’t really a checking line — it’s not like getting stuck with the kids I mentioned above. Beyond that, one could do worse than to keep company with players who execute a good two-way game and display a good work ethic like Army and Reasoner.
ranallo10 (in AT)
July 5th, 2009
2:38 pm
Sara — Teams with depth DO NOT start 18 year olds on the third line. Kane is an 18 year old boy who has to adjust his scoring skills to a man’s sport. Sure, he’ll learn some things from Reasoner and Armstrong that would benefit him, if he were on their line, but he’ll learn more about positioning and defensive responsibility for an offensive player if he were on the line of people with that same skill set.
How has Sterling fared playing on third and fourth lines? Has he been able to adjust to the NHL level in those brief stints in Atlanta?
There is no rule or “hockey bible” that says a prospect cannot learn on the third line…but in my opinion an offensive prospect whose skill sets place him on a scoring line, does not benefit learning the NHL game on a grinding/defensively responsible line. Reasoner’s line is responsible for shutting down the best the opponent has to offer, and Kane does not appear to be the type of player suited to fill that role alongside Reasoner.
Putting him on the ice for 10-15 minutes of defensive duties is wasting his talent, in my opinion. Not all 18 year olds can learn as fast as Bogosian did.
Re: Slater — He fills his role. I don’t care to argue about if he can be improved, but he’s already signed and he’s filling a role as requested. If you truly think a player like Marchant or Moen would come to Atlanta to play 4th line minutes, you’re kidding yourself…what’s their motivation?
Somebody, I don’t remember who, did an analysis of fourth line centers around the NHL, comparing Slater to them. To my recollection he was average in production, average in salary, and below average in age. If that person would care to re-hash that analysis that would be greatly appreciated.
Nikita
July 5th, 2009
3:29 pm
Sorry, can’t do that, but I also recall it. However, the reason why neither Slater nor Thorburn should stay goes beyond production and salary and doing more or less well enough in general. I happen to adore both of them and want them, as people, on the team. However, I keep recalling the glaring deficiencies of our team. Specifically, the PK — which Slater has played inadequately on for years. It is our most pressing need and it is a very material reason why we failed last year. Therefore, to the extent that Slater or Thorburn represents a slot filled by guys who suck on the PK, they are dispensable for anyone who can check reasonably and perform on the PK. And in general, since we’re swimming upstream, I advocate for anyone to be tossed in favor of an upgrade.
Also, for the record, I also think Slater would be best served by not being on this team. I don’t think it matters for Thorburn, but I think Slater has been mismanaged to some extent and might have a shot at having a better career elsewhere in a system that can use his talents differently.
Pen
July 5th, 2009
3:35 pm
Hockeybuzz is saying Kovalev may come to Atlanta.
If that’s true, I think we’d be a SERIOUS playoff team, as well as the fact that Kovalchuk will be signed, sealed, and delivered.
http://twitter.com/eklund
GaVaHokie
July 5th, 2009
3:42 pm
Yeah, I just read the Kovalev thing… can’t see how we make that work money-wise… but Kovy, Antro and Kovalev as the top line would be sick.
We’d have to move White, I’d imagine.
Kovy Antro Kovalev
Kozy Peverley Little
Crabb Reasoner Army
Boulton Slater Thorburn
David
July 5th, 2009
3:45 pm
i’ve never been a huge kovalev fan, but it would be a great addition. I don’t think it’s possible to really argue against an upgrade like that.
Midfield
July 5th, 2009
4:38 pm
This sounds more like a groundless speculation, especially in light of what Waddell told Vivlamore.
ranallo10 (in AT)
July 5th, 2009
5:24 pm
“This sounds more like a groundless speculation”
That’s the gist of the website, not just this one rumor.
Brendan
July 5th, 2009
5:38 pm
I don’t buy Kovalev coming here. But I’d wager Kovalchuk would like that move. If Kovalev came, others would likely have to leave. Probably White. Maybe more. Maybe Lehtonen, too. Cap-wise, he could probably fit. But we’re talking about the Spirit, LLC. Unless they’re experiencing a highly dubious epiphany, that’s not going to happen.
Pen
July 5th, 2009
5:50 pm
He’s a 2nd wave guy, though. I could see him coming here, even with the money thing factored in.
And wouldn’t he be a huge improvement to our team? Like, I know what I linked to is just speculation, but can’t you see this as possible because of Kovy and Kovalev being buds (or so I hear)?
Smoothie
July 5th, 2009
6:04 pm
Ranallo, twas I who put together a cursory analysis of 4th line centers to show that Slater is not nearly as bad as some want to make him out to be. Ill put together another analysis tomorrow when I’m at my PC if I have time.
The fact of the matter is that Slater is more than adequate for what he’s paid if you simply forget that he is a former 1st round pick. I would contend that he’d be even better with better linemates as Thorburn is maddeningly erratic when it comes to converting chances.
Slater is getting better in that regard and is now stronger on his skates. Now if someone like Crabb or perhaps a Macho-check could step into the lower line RW role AND contribute some PK mins, we’d be better off. Slater was much improved after his injury on the PK as he was often paired with Peverly.
Lastly, if we somehow could convince a Kovalev or Tanguay to play here with Kovy, it might be best for the team as we could trade White for a guy like a Blair Betts to round out our third line and shed some salary. Just don’t know if I like Antro playing C between Kovy squared. Also, we’d have to think about moving Little back to C if Antro doesn’t perform. But just think how effective a trio of Kozzy, Pevs and Little could be playing against other team’s 2nd lines! I like that idea a lot!
Kovy X 2 with Antro at center.
Kozzy – Pevs – BLits
Betts – Marty – Army
Boults – Slates – Crabb
Nikita
July 5th, 2009
6:33 pm
I love Kovalev. I don’t think he’s coming, but the day he does is the day I buy full-season season tickets.
Jameson
July 5th, 2009
7:19 pm
Nikita- Even if it’s the day after we lose Kovalchuk? Sorry, someone had to say it.
World Be Free
July 5th, 2009
7:49 pm
On the Slater thing and the notion of improvement. I respect most of the regulars that contribute here. There is a group of us that contribute to these blogs and generally agree on most issues.
Some of you agree with me on the Slater issue, but for me it is much more than just Jimmy Slater.
Yes, we are not Detroit, but if we are going to start winning we have to start thinking like Detroit, or San Jose or Boston when it comes to adding quality, veteran depth. Let’s take Boston for example; last year, they brought in Stephane Yelle and Mark Recchi to fill gaps in their lineup. Both played crucial roles, especially Yelle as a 4th line center, faceoff man and penalty killer. Both won Stanley Cups on other teams. These are the types of guys you want filling out your lineup, not veteran AHL-ers.
I DO believe that given the opportunity, veteran players will come here to be part of what could be something special this year. Don’t think the Thrashers’ second half and UFA signing have gone unnoticed by players and media. Like I said, this isn’t about Slater-it’s about having veterans that can contribute in close games.
Will ASG pony up again? We don’t know for sure, but we can ask; all they can do is say no and we will have Jimmy and the minor leaguers to fill NHL roles.
Sadtoseeitthisway
July 5th, 2009
8:24 pm
A previous writer, World B. Free put it oh so correctly. The Thrash have been trying for too long to convince us that all is well. When in reality, we`re just trying to get by on the cheap. Underachievers, and some undersized AHL overachievers just hasn`t worked. Maybe these recent additions will help. Right now all one can say is SHOW ME this new plan can work.
Dwayne
July 5th, 2009
8:47 pm
Go Thrashers!!!
kracker
July 6th, 2009
8:45 am
Kane: If he’s ready and can stick, play him wherever he can be something approaching effective and where he does little harm, which is a lower line. He is not yet the mature horse that Kovy and Bogo were at 18 yrs old. But arguing he’s going to be damaged by playing on a lower line is simply looking for an argument. Of course Kane would benefit greatly by playing NHL hockey this season vs jr. hockey. By learning & becoming acclimated to the pro game, his team mates and the coaches, etc. This is Bogosian all over again. Personally, my guess is that Kane will be ready in 3 months but I do think mgmt. will push for him to stay if at all possible.
kracker
July 6th, 2009
8:48 am
Sorry, “my guess is that Kane will NOT be ready…”
ranallo10 (in AT)
July 6th, 2009
9:29 am
“But arguing he’s going to be damaged by playing on a lower line is simply looking for an argument.”
No, it’s just a disagreement on prospect development at the NHL level. I feel an 18 year old should not be rushed into the NHL purely for the spectacle of having a top draft pick “producing” immediately, while others feel an 18 year old should play wherever they can fit him into the lineup. To me there is a very specific role for a third and fourth line player, and rookies learning the NHL game, especially 18 year old soon-to-be men, should not be forced to play on those lines unless their game translate directly to that role. It’s not “damaging” in my opinion, it’s merely non-productive and completely fanciful to assume he could serve any special purpose in such a role.
It’s just an opinion, not an argument. I can deal with Sara and others having a different opinion than my own. Besides, I’d love for someone to show me how often a freshly drafted 18 year old forward has been placed onto a third pairing with two grinders…because I cannot think of it happening once in the recent past. If that third line were a scoring line, the role would be different and thus the only argument against placing a rookie there would be limited NHL minutes. Of course, such an opinion always depends on the roster, because in Detroit it’s much harder to place a rookie onto a top line right away without displacing more deserving talent.
Alan
July 6th, 2009
10:33 am
If he’s ready and can stick, play him wherever he can be something approaching effective and where he does little harm, which is a lower line.
If he’s ready, play him where he will be effective. We agree on that point. However, judging by his skill set, that effectiveness would be on a scoring line – quite likely as a winger on the second line. It doesn’t make any sense to play a scorer on a checking line (see: Peverley in Nashville).
ChippersLoveChild
July 6th, 2009
10:39 am
Daultan Leveillé, Eric O’Dell, and Dannick Paquette in addition to the players you mentioned would be nice Chris!
kracker
July 6th, 2009
10:39 am
ranallo, I probably put that inartfully in that there’s nothing wrong w/ having an ‘argument’ as long as some level of civility is maintained. Which in effect turns it into a discussion, I suppose.
As for Kane or any young player, it’s all situational anyway. The prospect will either be a) able to better himself while at least not hurting the team or he will not be able to and b) as good or better than the other players vying for a similar spot on the roster. Didn’t I read we resigned Crabb? Even on a two-way, he will be wanting that 3rd line spot.
Brendan
July 6th, 2009
11:25 am
I don’t support rushing Kane into the lineup. His role will be a top line scorer. If he isn’t ready for the NHL in the Fall, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with letting him play with his current team. If they want to do the 9 game audition at the beginning of the season, or at the end of it, I’m fine with it either way. To ask him to be a 3rd line grinder, even if Kane is fine with that, seems to be miscasting him. He’d be learning a job that he’d quickly abandon in the next season. Meanwhile, pundits would argue that Kane’s “rookie campaign” was lacking. Well, no kidding. Playing 8-12 minutes, on a shutdown line, will curtail Kane’s production. If Kane can make it in the NHL this Fall, then great. If not, I certainly won’t beat him up for it. He’s 18!! Eighteen. And this, despite what you hear, is another ‘build year’ for the franchise. I’ll revise that statement if the Thrashers get a payroll up over $52 million.
Alan
July 6th, 2009
11:38 am
I’ll revise that statement if the Thrashers get a payroll up over $52 million.
I contend that a return to the playoffs (likely involving repeat performances) will merit a revision. The cap may fall to a point lower than the $52m mark, which would make your threshold unattainable.
Sara
July 6th, 2009
11:38 am
ranallo – Detroit doesn’t play 18 year old rookies anyway – ever. They don’t need to and typically that’s the ideal situation. Unfortunately we aren’t quite that deep yet. To me it boils down to two questions that the coaches have to ask and answer.
Will Kane benefit from another year in juniors – can it improve his game? It’s not about size and weight to me but about skill sets. If the answer is yes then send him back. If the answer is no, the team only has one choice and that’s to bring him up. It’s an imperfect system in that guys like Kane and Bogosian can’t go to the AHL as an intermediate step.
The second question is where to put him if he is here. I think you could make a case for any of the top three lines. He plays a physical style as it is and no matter what line he plays on, he’s going to have to dish and take some physical punishment. Playing on the top lines means facing other team’s checking lines and top D pairs. Is he ready or not? Playing on the 3rd line means working on his whole game to me – both sides of the ice. He’ll have solid linemates either way and frankly might learn more playing with Reasoner and Army than playing with Kovy and Antro. If he’s a natural scorer, that isn’t going to go away just because he starts out on a checking line.
Smoothie
July 6th, 2009
11:55 am
Just to play devil’s advocate, who’s to say the 3rd line (if in fact it consists of Marty Reasoner, Colby Armstrong and Evander Kane) can’t be a “scoring” line that shuts down the opposition by its ability to score goals and put pressure on the other team in their end of the ice?
In JA’s system, guys like Colin Stuart and Eric Perrin (bad example I know) weren’t exactly knocking guys off the puck and slamming them into the boards at every turn. Rather they were back-checking aggressively, getting sticks in lanes to disrupt passes and beating their opponents to loose pucks.
By all evidence presented Colby is our best 2 way player and Marty is probably a close second. If EK has the skills and the discipline to play 2-way hockey right off the bat, why not let him play LW on the 3rd line? He’s obviously a skilled shooter and while he may not have the physical attributes to consistently crash the net, I would think the presence of Armstrong on that line would take some of the pressure off him to be the most physical element on that line.
Just think: if Colby can score 20+ goals again, Marty may be able to put up 15-20 with Army and Kane on his wings. Potentially (on paper in other words) a trio of Marty, Colbs and “Van” may be able to pot 60 goals while only giving up 45-50 to the opposition.
The key is whether Evander will come to camp with an additional 5-8 lbs on his frame and be able to handle the speed and physicality of the NHL game. But in the post-lockout era where a greater premium has been placed on speed, skill and play-making, perhaps EK will not only find a niche on our 3rd line, but develop his NHL skill-set without having the pressure of scoring 25-30 goals on a top line.
Just sayin’.
Smoothie
July 6th, 2009
12:02 pm
Sara makes a good point that Kane would likely be playing against the other team’s 1st line, which in most cases is not the most physical line. However, it is usually the most skilled line and whether Evander is ready to foil the likes of Ovechkin and Crosby and Lecavalier on a consistent basis remains to be seen. Then again, no one expected Bogosian to be as effective as he was at 18.
Tony C.
July 6th, 2009
12:16 pm
Chris,
Ask him what the *(&%! happened to Hoffman-we hear he’s going to join the club in November 2008, then hurt his hand and now, nothing. Plus he was UFA IIRC, so maybe some actual information about the guy would be nice.
Also, ask them if they plan on getting a full-time goalie coach (i.e. Weeks only does that one thing and somebody else does the video sessions etc.)???
ranallo10 (in AT)
July 6th, 2009
12:29 pm
I understand your point, I simply don’t agree. I would not want a projected top line scoring talent playing a third line role. Many people would say that Turris was hurt by being rushed to the NHL, at age 18. He is the same size as Kane but has about 15 pounds on him…not all players can transition to the NHL, and placing them in a role that they’re not accustomed to does not help that transition flow smoother.
Of course that’s just my opinion…I’m sure if you ask every GM in the league you’d get variations of one of our opinions, with just as many situational clauses added to their response.