Hawks Fans: Internal improvement suggestions

It’s that time of year again, as if you needed to be told. Offseason doldrums. Well, if you’re a Hawks fan, that is. With the Conference Finals yet to be finished, and therefore the NBA Finals yet to begin, the draft is ordinarily the next topic of conversation. However, there doesn’t seem like much use in talking draft prospects since the Hawks don’t have a first round pick. They do have a second round pick, but unless it’s a very deep draft or Sund and his team are hot on the trail of some talented foreign prospect that nobody else knows about (think Pape Sy, part II), then there’s probably very little that’s noteworthy in the way of change to the team.

What about free agency and trade? With the CBA gumming things up, and constant investment/sale chatter in connection with the team and Phillips Arena, there is no telling what can be expected. Rick Sund’s administration keeps things close to the vest, so there would probably be few rumors to speculate on anyway. And again…the CBA looms large. What does all of this mean? It may not be wise to expect the Hawks to make any major changes to the team. Maybe not even some that would seriously change the core, something that the Hawks don’t seem inclined to do, as it is. There’s nothing left but internal improvement. So, at the suggestion of our very own Astro Joe, I ask YOU -  

Which Hawks players can help this team become more than it was this season, and how should they go about it? Just to get this party started, here are a few thoughts of my own:

Larry Drew

There is no substitute for experience in the big seat (also known as the hot seat). However, Drew is still up against a wall. Many are calling for a championship caliber head coach, and while Drew had the Hawks playing competitively and much better in the playoffs, but he wasn’t able to get the team past a third straight second round playoff exit. Many think that a better head coach could or will solve all the problems with player performance on the court. Drew is likely to be staying employed (much to the chagrin of some), so his best bet is to accomplish some of the things that people say he can’t do. First, he could stand to learn how to let his players play through early foul trouble. Drew’s tendency to snatch a guy like Al Horford out if he gets two fouls in the first half is a momentum robbing move, and often affects the player’s ability to get going. Second, he needs to figure out a firm rotation that works, and redefine some roles. Gee, where have we heard THAT before? Third, if all the guys who are here now, remain here, then Drew needs to find a better way of coaxing the best out of them. That might mean tweaks to his offense, which we still are unable to identify clearly.

Al Horford

Simply put, Horford needs to get back to his roots. Even if he ends up playing more power forward than center for the remainder of his career, there is no reason not to play tough. Horford spent the first three years of his career as an ever present double double threat and a guy who most frontcourts preferred to not have to deal with. Horford had a rough postseason performance and while he did average a double double (a fact that seems to continuously elude some of us), he didn’t look like the guy who had just established a career high in field goal percentage and points per game during the regular season. Al needs to spend some offseason time with somebody who can help him with his back-to-the-basket game. That, and maybe he should start eating boiled leather for breakfast. Tough is where it’s at.

Jeff Teague

The playoff series against Chicago made Jeff Teague look like the legitimate starting point guard prospect that we had hoped he would become. While he may not have the job in the bag for certain, his chances are better than good. The first thing Teague needs to do is maintain a professional work ethic and attitude. One thing bothered me about his reason for playing well, and that’s this snippet from AJC Beat writer Michael Cunningham, which I think a lot of people may have missed, or maybe misunderstood:

To Teague, the difference has not just been playing more; it’s knowing the Hawks need him to play more.

“I would say that’s the difference,” he said. “During the season I didn’t know if I was going to play one game and if I was going to sit the next. Now, knowing that I’m going to get an opportunity to go in every game, I just try to focus and give a good effort.”

Ok, now that seems like an easy “like shooting fish in a barrel” shot at Larry Drew, doesn’t it? And we can go on and on about how much Drew should or shouldn’t have played Teague during the regular season. But the point here is that Teague can’t come into camp with this attitude.  If he does, then he doesn’t need to be the starting point guard. A professional player needs to go at it hard and heavy regardless of how much he can “expect” to play. I understand what the young man is saying and why, but if you’re not always mentally prepared to play….then how are you ever going to be ready to play? Thankfully, Teague was ready to go against Chicago. But now, he needs to bring that verve every night if he wants to run this team. He needs to come to camp READY to play, not EXPECTING to play.

Oh yeah…and he needs to work with a shooting coach. Give that young man a better jumper and we’ll be looking at a very potent player who might be the best point guard this team has seen since Mookie Blaylock.

So there you have a few suggestions of my own. YOUR turn!

 

Big Ray, Hawks Fan Nest Blog

203 comments Add your comment

doc

May 24th, 2011
7:55 am

writer’s block gone. nice start.

briefly:

beef it up josh and al, hit the weight room and give us 10 pounds more of muscle and less body fat. goes for jj, too. think jj and josh lost that lean look.

what wrinkle will jj add, it is time for him to be as proactive as josh is during the off season.

marvin needs to go theyellow brick road route and find a heart. passion and showing it is games in a focused way is what i see he needs to fins over the summer. he probably needs new real estate more than josh but in the cba year i think it is better to batten down the hatches than to make whole sale manuevers.

Jerry West

May 24th, 2011
7:56 am

doc

May 24th, 2011
7:59 am

heh heh deservedly no mr west as you probably didnt even rad it much less comment, ;-)

back to the weight room or you too

i accept the cudos.

Samuel

May 24th, 2011
8:07 am

There’s too many jump shot shooting players on the team. You don’t see alot of tuff blue collar guys who can go to the hoop. We need an effective center and a Superstar on that team who’s better than Joe Johnson. It’s way too much dribbling going on and not enough consistent passing.

Jerry West

May 24th, 2011
8:14 am

It’s kudos, good sir, and I extend them to you. Back to the matters at hand:

Let’s get Al a big man coach. Clifford Ray maybe, or I hear Kareem’s available.

Re-sign Damien and start him at the 3. Sic him on the opponent’s best wing on a nightly basis. And send him to the Bruce Bowen School of Defensive Spot Up Shooters this summer. We might be small up front, but I like his energy and scrappiness. I think he’ll rebound at a better clip than Ol’ Marv with additional minutes.

Move Marvin to the bench and get him more looks with the 2nd unit (which will be comprised of him, Kirk, and Zaza primarily).

Make sure Nick Van Exel teaches Teague that it’s ok to get some lift and arc on your jumper.

I would say hire yours truly, El Logo, as a consultant, but I kinda got such a gig already.

Tramarci

May 24th, 2011
8:18 am

I think it starts with Coach Drew. He has to get more out of players like Hilton Armstrong. Let’s face it, Jason Collins is too old and slow to start for a whole season. I think we should start Hilton Armstrong or Zaza. Hilton is young and has a lot of potential. Someone should be working with him right now. We also have Magnum Rolle on the roster. Get those guys (Hilton,Magnum) in the weight room, work on there post moves and we have our front court.

Willie Coyote

May 24th, 2011
8:23 am

I’d like to see Josh trim down a little and work on his conditioning so he can be up to the constant motion they are supposed to be running with their offense. He seemed to labor with fatigue at times. We need him (if he isn’t traded). Also, stop trying to prove people wrong and play the way the team needs you.

Get another Center. Zaza proved himself to be a valuable backup energy guy. We need more team size and a starting center would provide that.

Joe needs to rediscover his shot and be the perimeter threat we need. If Teague handles the point, that should leave Joe open for more catch & shoot opportunities instead of him trying to create his own shot.

LD, hold people accountable like you say you will; that includes your stars.

I cosign your assessment of Teague and Al.

Marvin needs to bet comfortable with coming off the bench. He also needs to find where his jumper is hiding.

Tramarci

May 24th, 2011
8:26 am

I also think this teams just needs more time in Larry Drew’s version of the Princeton Offense. It’s a complicated offense to run. You have to know each others habits. Each player has to read the next player. That’s takes years to do to perfection. It’s about letting them gel. Keep these guys together and they will gel. If reserves like Hilton Armstrong step up, they will have a solid team for years to come.

JoJo the Godfather

May 24th, 2011
8:26 am

LD/Sund – It’s time to define roles. Not for every minute of every game, but at least tell Josh & Al where the bulk of their minutes will come. IMO, it should be Josh at the 3 and Al at the 4.

Teague & Sy – Both are a little injury prone and it couldn’t hurt to add some muscle. And, of course, both need to work on their jumpers.

Al & Josh – Post moves, post moves, post moves!!! Josh is going to need to drop some pounds to take some pressure off those knees, and both need to add some upper body strength.

Joe – Work on that 3-pt shot.

Marvin – He needs to know right now that he’s lost his starting spot, and if he wants it back, he’s going to have to earn it. He needs to be a 40% 3-pt shooter. He gets mostly uncontested looks from behind the line and still shoots a sub-par %. His mechanics are too good to not be a better shooter. It’s got to be mental.

Pachulia – Keep up that Rocky routine from last summer. Demand more playing time by giving a consistent effort every night.

Rolle – Watch tapes of Dennis Rodman, hit the weight room, and drink a bunch of those weight-gain protein shakes.

Hinrich – Go sit down in LD’s office and ask him what the heck he’s trying to accomplish on offense, and then help communicate that to the team and us fans.

This team needs a starting defensive-minded center, a shooter off the bench, and some end of the bench depth at PG and C, but unfortunately, we have no money, only a late 2nd round pick, and we own the rights to two euro combo guards that don’t look too promising.

Tramarci

May 24th, 2011
8:32 am

We finally have depth at every position. We are good on bodies. Now we need better coaching. Not saying fire Larry Drew, but he Has to get the best out of every player on this roster.

Jerry West

May 24th, 2011
8:43 am

Tramarci,

I’d like to see Hilt the Stilt become a productive NBA player, but let’s not act like it’s totally on Drew to make that happen. Hilt needs to step it up and show that he can play, and thus far he hasn’t. Dude went from lottery pick to journeyman fairly quickly before he got to the Hawks. Maybe Drew can coax some consistency out of him, but no one else has to this point. So I’m not holding my breath on that, nor am I mad at LD if he can’t (and that’s assuming he’s still on the roster, which I don’t give that great of a chance of happening).

doc

May 24th, 2011
8:48 am

btw jw, glad you got a new gig.

SteveW

May 24th, 2011
9:12 am

Fact Check: Speaking of Al in the postseason, it was written, “…while he did average a double double..”

No he didn’t – he only averaged 9.6 rebounds per game in the post season. Close to a double double, but not a double double.

Astro Joe

May 24th, 2011
9:13 am

I think Hilton is a UFA and I wouldn’t expect him back… isn’t Magnum Rolle a cheaper and younger version of Hilton? I’d like to see Joe drop 15-20 pounds. My guess is that he is “country-strong” and would still be able to bully his way into the paint, but I’d like for him to be a little quicker playing in the pentangle offense. I’d buy Horford a compass so that he could find his way back to the paint. I don’t care if his moves are mechanical, he needs to provide that post presence this team needs to keep the offense balanced. Lastly, I’d send Teague and Pape Sy to the same instructor who worked with Derrick Rose last summer. Those guys should shoot 1,000 jumpers/day just like the MVP. Those two represent the best shot at “organic growth” amongst expected rotational players (yeah, I think Pape Sy will be given a chance to get some consistent minutes next year as a Tony Allen-light type of player).

The sports talk show was talking about a Josh/Hinrich for Bynum/Artest rumor this morning. Artest has 4 more years left on his deal… can you imagine what he would be like when he is no longer physically capable of locking perimeter players down? He’d be like Malik Rose with a super-nasty attitude. I think I’d rather have Bynum and Blake (if the money works).

SteveW

May 24th, 2011
9:24 am

My take on improvements:

Larry Drew – Unless he vastly improves, the Hawks are heading for the lottery. This season. A decent post season that the players had prepared for doesn’t negate the historic beat downs ATL suffered this season, and the lottery performance they had after about January 17th or so to finish out the regular season. Abysmal.

So improvement has to start at the top.

Bench – Seeing Chicago, I realize just how important players 10-13 are. Asik get’s hurt, put in Kurt Thomas. Boozer’s down, Gibson and Thomas with Asik does the trick. Noah out – Asik, Thomas goes in and you don’t miss much. Korver not hitting, put in Brewer or Bogans. Rose needs a breather, CJ Watson’s not a bad back up.

We need to be very judicious on our 10-13 guys. And Larry needs to develop confidence in them as Big Ray says.

Marvin – If he could up his game a little bit, he could put us over the top.

Josh – Get in the post man!

Al – Ditto!

Teague and Hinrich – Train like crazy in the off season

JJ – Same

ZaZa – Learn a low post move

Collins – Keep pumpin’ iron and eatin’ right bro!

That’s about all we got to work with right now. But a top 9 of:

JJ – Still the 2nd best SG in the East
Josh – Top 5 PF in the East
Al – Top 3 C in the East
Teague/Kirk – Very good combo at the Point
Marvin/Wilkens – Serviceable potentially at SF if Marvin especially improves
ZaZa – Very good back up big
Collins – About what you want for a 3rd C

We have a very good foundation. I assume Rolle and Sy will be numbers 10 and 11. And this assumes we re-sign Wilkens and Collins.

Tramarci

May 24th, 2011
9:28 am

@ Jerry West,

Hilton is an OK player if given a chance to play. Before Teague got his minutes, people were saying, “Owe Teague isn’t gonna cut”…. it’s amazing what a little PT can do for a players reputation. What I’m looking at is the fact that there is no one out there worth trading for. We have an elite team, with elite players. We don’t need to pull a Boston (Trade Perkins) or Orlando (Traded Carter and Lewis). We need to keep what we have and get more out of our rotation that’s all I’m saying.

KCG

May 24th, 2011
9:37 am

I heard it on 790 this morning that there have been possible talks between the Hawks and the Lakers for a trade including Smith and Hinrich for Bynum and Artest. What do you guys think of that? I don’t think I like it.

Astro Joe

May 24th, 2011
9:40 am

I wouldn’t bet on Collins’ return… I think true contenders will offer him a little more money if not a legit shot at a ring.

Melvin

May 24th, 2011
9:48 am

Marvin need to be on the first bus, plane or train out of Atlanta.
AL/Josh need to develop more post moves.
Teague need to get stronger.
Joe need to drop a few pounds.
ZaZa need to comeback with his playoffs mindset.
Sy- insufficient game time to analyze. Need to play in the Summer league.
Jamal- if not resigned, should be S&T for helpful piece in return.

Melvin

May 24th, 2011
9:50 am

Doc,

Could you explain why this scouting report on the kid (Anthony Davis) below says b/c he had a 7-inch growth spurt in a year, it will cause him knee problems.

“Was a 6′3″ guard his junior year before a major 7-inch growth spurt. Growth spurt could cause some issues with his knees, could experience some significant pain and could also be a little injury prone for the next year or so.”

Wretch

May 24th, 2011
9:50 am

- Teague, Kirk, and Joe starting at the 1, 2, & 3.
- Give Teague the same minutes, freedom, and responsibility that he was given in the playoffs.
- Teague/Kirk backcourt is solid scoring, playmaking, and defense…stick with it.
- Less offense through Joe. Focusing him, even as the ball passes through him, has a tendency to shut us down. The league figured that out 3 seasons ago
- Horf needs to be more physical. Period.

vava74

May 24th, 2011
9:56 am

1st point of order is that with a high degree of probability Marvin will be traded simply because there is no cap room to keep him and still fill the roster up to 12 players.

My guess is that a late 1st round will be what we will get from a team looking for a disciplined defensive player with size and perceived potential. I would accept a 2nd round.

Alternatively – which I would not advocate unless the deal is reeeeally good – Josh will be traded.

Following this, my view is that the biggest upgrade we could make would be to have LD accepting a gig to coach basketball to the siberian eskimos.

Teague should be told that he is the starter. I know that this not the way to do it normally, but his scouting report already mentioned that he has some mental/confidence issues and as I always said, he needs to know that the job is his.

If he had been given just token minutes against CHI – if Hinrich had not been injured – he would have probably failed to impress.

Coaching is understanding how to deal with these peculiarities of character.

O'Brien

May 24th, 2011
10:07 am

AJ,

Artest has 4 more years left on his deal….

According to hoopshype, Artest has 3 years left on his deal, and his remaining contract is basically the same as Marvin. 3 years, $22.5 mil. And Artest’s contract has a player option for 2012. Who knows, he might do something crazy and opt out or retire. Marvin’s player option is for 2013.

can you imagine what he would be like when he is no longer physically capable of locking perimeter players down?.

Wouldn’t that make him a slightly less effective version of Marvin?

Would the Lakers be interested in Josh and Marvin for Bynum and Artest? I think they would want a Center back in any trade (unless they could use some other pieces to get Howard).

O'Brien

May 24th, 2011
10:13 am

Samuel,

There’s too many jump shot shooting players on the team..

Co-sign. I think Al and Kirk are ok (although I would like to see Al in the post more). But Josh is a horrible jump shooter, JJ and Jamal can be streaky, and Marvin is Marvin.

I wish we could add one legit shooter to this team (the Bulls have 2 in Korver and Bogans), We need a guy who will knock down 40% of his 3-ptrs when he gets open looks.

Astro Joe

May 24th, 2011
10:17 am

OB, I get that Marvin isn’t productive but he isn’t disruptive to the team. I understand why folk are ready to trade Marvin for government cheese and week old bread, I just would prefer someone coming back who may not spend as much time in the recording studio and psychologist’s office as the basketball court.

vava, assuming the same type of salary cap rules apply in the new CBA, how do you trade an unproductive player with an expensive contract (relative to his value) for cap relief? I could certainly see Marvin being traded this summer, I just don’t see how Sund pulls that off without taking back ~$7M in salary.

O'Brien

May 24th, 2011
10:38 am

As for the team next year;

Hilton Armstrong has been on 5 NBA teams in 4 years. How much can we really expect from him?

Josh: Play 15 feet in on offense, drastically reduce the jump shots.

Al: work on his post moves and his post attitude.

JJ: Lose a little weight, and work on that 3-pt shot

Teague: Work on the jumper. He said LD told him to work on his 3-pt shot over the summer, but I also think he should work on his release point.

Marvin: Work on his 3-pt shot, and get some fire in the belly.

Rod from College Park

May 24th, 2011
10:49 am

If I were the Hawks, I would literally give Marvin away. He serves no purpose on this team at all. He never should have been a starter. All of you who think that he will be this fantastic scorer off the bench are living in fantasy land. If he can’t score when no one guards him, what makes you think he will score when the defense is focused on him. He is good for about 10 above average games per year. That’s it. I would call Pheonix, and see if we could swap Chills for Marvin. Both had bad years, but I still think Chills would fit better on our team than Marvin does. All of his strengths are what we need. He is a slasher, good defender of 3 positions, and a good rebounder. Get rid of Marvin at all cost. I’d take a spoiled bag of chips back for him at this point. If he leaves Atlanta, I promise you, you will rarely see him touch the floor again.

doc

May 24th, 2011
11:06 am

melvin, i dont think it is anything structural that has happened to make the bone or joints weaker outside of the normal stresses of playing at a high level increasing repetitive stress injury potential. what can happen is the center of gravity changes and that makes someone more prone to injury as the body adjusts but the growth itself doesnt put him at any more risk. i never heard of this as a consideration in youth sports, for example.

the other blog shut down last night for some reason as i had tried to answer you there.

aj, people that dont produce and get paid well do sometimes cause problems in a team game though it isnt overt. bibby might have been one example of this where we see addiiton by subtraction. that said i am not a fan of artest at the end of his career. if dr phil has problems with him which it sounded like this year after coaching rodman, the prognosis isnt good. btw not saying artest isnt a good guy just very impulsive and explosive.

doc

May 24th, 2011
11:09 am

o’b, i would want to know if jj can straighten his arm before i suggest he go shoot threes this summer. rehab it first and that will take rest. still not sure if that one doesnt come back to bite us bad and he might be better off beginning to look at playing a new position like sf a bit more. he isnt a sg anyway as he doesnt move well around screens, doesnt seem to like to spot up and certainly doesnt do the chase through screens as well as he might have on defense in the past. he wants the ball in his hands which can be done low as a sf just in a different way going to the basket rather than floating away from it. get some new tricks jj to extend your career and make good on your contract.

Rufus1

May 24th, 2011
11:10 am

If we make no changes….

Al needs a better left hand
Josh needs a better right hand and a signature move.
Marvin needs to become a 40% 3pt shooter…He needs to spend the entire offseason working on his 3pt shot.
Joe needs to play more like ray Allen.

Finally…LD
LD needs to value defense and rebounding 1st as a coach and stop trying to win with offense. MAKE YOUR WORDS AND ACTIONS MATCH!

vava74

May 24th, 2011
11:12 am

AJ,

This year’s draft is very very shallow and Marvin still has some reputation in the league.

A team trading a low 1st round pick would be trading 1 million in salary for 7 million, which means “only” 6 million added to the payroll.

Maybe someone out there thinks that Marvin is their missing link of some sort purely based on “perceived” potential and the fact that he is a disciplined wing defender with good size and acceptable shooting touch.

Contrary to what Rod says, I think a change of scenery will make Marvin go back to his 2008-09 form and become again a serviceable rotation player (it’s not out of this world to think that with Jamal leaving that could happen here as well, however, for us, he is waaay to expensive to keep for what he produces right now).

This means that if we don’t ditch Marvin, we will need to trade Josh or Hinrich which are both far far far far far more valuable.

jlewis

May 24th, 2011
11:24 am

I only have a request, name player(s) that we can get in here that are better than Joe Johnson? Most people stress in here about what he makes, we all would have taken the money, and I bet we we be even more sick if we knew what Schultz and Bradley make to hate on what someone else makes.

vava74

May 24th, 2011
11:28 am

Astro Joe
May 24th, 2011
9:40 am
“I wouldn’t bet on Collins’ return… I think true contenders will offer him a little more money if not a legit shot at a ring.”

Yep, he will almost certainly sign with someone else. Look for the Celts to get him, although ORL are now an afterthought as a contender.

Nonetheless, I think we can still get Jarron instead of him :-D it’s one of the good things about this twin stuff.

Where’s Howard’s lost twin when we need him???

vava74

May 24th, 2011
11:32 am

Ray,

Blog monster!

JoJo the Godfather

May 24th, 2011
11:52 am

Smith/Hinrich for Bynum/Artest has us taking back an extra $2M in salary. There’s no way that would happen.

O'Brien

May 24th, 2011
12:00 pm

doc,

I think JJ has 3 more good years left. But his last 2 years of his contract, he will be owed $48 mil, and I think his production will be down even more by then. ASG probably wont own the team by then though, so it will be somebody else’s problem.

Melvin

May 24th, 2011
12:48 pm

If Marvin was a half-way quality SF we could send him to Cleveland for a TPE. Heck, the Cavs can keep their the 4th pick, just take Marvin off our books….

“The website DraftExpress reported that the Cavs offered their No. 4 overall pick to the Grizzlies for Gay, and Memphis said no thanks. The Cavs were going to use their trade exception to fit him into their salary cap.

A league source said the report wasn’t true.

From afar, one can see why the Cavs might be interested in his services. The Cavs don’t have a starting-quality small forward on their roster.”

Melvin

May 24th, 2011
1:01 pm

Rick Sund,

Here is your free draft scouting report. This guy is a legit 6′10, the biggest hand in the draft, good athletic ability, his last name is “Smith” and he has JSmoove stutter (J/K Josh). However, just press the mute button when he says he see himself as a PF later in his career.(LOL)

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=19888

O'Brien

May 24th, 2011
1:06 pm

AJ,

Despite all the Hawks players liking each other off the court, and not being very disruptive on it, there still appears to be Chemistry issue at times, and players are not on the same page. Plus we had some major beatdowns this year.

Maybe the threat of disfunctionality with Artest on board could result in a positive effect on the court. However, LD and the Hawks passed on Shaq, and one reason (imo) was the threat of disruption he brings. so I cant imagine them trading for Artest.

However, if I was getting Bynum in the deal, I would take the chance on Artest for Marvin.

O'Brien

May 24th, 2011
1:11 pm

Melvin,

I would do Marvin for Cleveland’s TPE and a future 2nd round pick.

One of the deals JoJo proposed on the other blog was Marvin and ZaZa for Kaman from the Clippers. I would make that deal gladly, because Kaman’s $12 mil contract is expiring, and we would get rid of Marvin’s contract. But we would have to find a replacement backup, because Kaman would probably get hurt on his way to the press conference.

Melvin

May 24th, 2011
1:11 pm

OB,

Another deal I would do is Marvin for Haywood. Even Van Gundy said that Haywood would be a starting center for alot of teams (which I agree with).

vava74

May 24th, 2011
1:41 pm

Melvin,

Haywood is overpriced, injury prone, usually lazy and or malcontent.

Yes, he could start in many teams, but that’s simply because the league is very thin in big bodies and tends to overprice the contracts by a mile.

He is 32 years old had still has 5 years at 7 million!

doc

May 24th, 2011
1:44 pm

melvin before the other blog broke i suggested no ti haywood. he is pre-etan and yes he could start for some very badt eams as vould zaza. he couldnt win home depot game at the phillips either the way he shoots foul shots either.

Astro Joe

May 24th, 2011
1:58 pm

If Marvin were good enough to trade for a #4, why would we trade him?

OB, I think asking LD to manage Artest is a bad idea.

Again, the desire to get rid of Marvin should not mean that we go from bad to worse. I’m waiting for someone to suggest that we should trade Marvin for Rashard Lewis (as unproductive sans steroids at twice the money).

Astro Joe

May 24th, 2011
2:03 pm

And another thing, if Marvin is the 7th or 8th best player on the team, why focus on trading him? He’s not going to likely bring back anything better, you’re not likely going to free up cash… it is like picking on the weakling in the prison yard. If you REALLY want to change the dynamics of the team, you don’t start with the forgettable player on the team.

vava74

May 24th, 2011
2:19 pm

AJ,

I think the reasoning is that yes, it should be possible to trade Marvin just for cap relief, taking a late 1st round or even a 2nd round pick.

Any option would suit us. If given the open looks, with a training camp behind him, Wilkins should be able to be our backup SF and SG with the responsibility to knock down some shots when on the floor.

Actually, I think Damien was pretty good when he had the opportunity to bring some offense, knocking down some baseline jumpers and lifting defenders and getting to the line with his fakes, in particular on turnaround jumpers.

Astro Joe

May 24th, 2011
2:30 pm

vava, I don’t doubt the benefot from our side of the trade equation, I don;t see it from the receiving team’s side. Heck, if they feel like Jamario Moon at $2M could provide 80% of what Marvin brings at 3.5X that amount, why would they trade a pick for Marvin and absorb that extra salary? The time tp trade a player is when his value is at least comparable to his contract, not when it is at an all-time low. I can only see moving Marvin as a “throw-in” and even then, we’re likely accepting another team’s problem in return (a bad contract, bad attitude, bad production, all of the above, etc.)

Astro Joe

May 24th, 2011
2:38 pm

And I agree with the Damien point. If we could bring back Damien and add Jason Kapono, with Joe getting his usual allotment at SF, then I think we could probably get comparable performance (defensive and offense) for likely half of Marvin’s current contract. I just don’t believe that a trade market exists for him this summer.

Magic Johnson

May 24th, 2011
2:51 pm

Starters: Teague/Joe/Josh/LarrySanders/AndrewBogut
Reserves: John Salmons/pg-sg?/Thornton/Gooden/Pachulia

Traded: Horford, Williams, Hinrich for Bogut, Sanders, Salmons, Gooden

Win NOW! Chicago has a center and bigs off the bench. OKC has a center and bigs off the bench. Celtics HAD a center and bigs off the bench.

Boozer is terrible at defense but Joakim Noah, Gibson, Asik and Deng cover for him.

Smith, Bogut, Sanders, Gooden, and Pachulia {and Semih Erden??} would compete with them and Bogut neutralizes and wears down Noah in their matchups.

Horford and Williams must be packaged to net these players. Milwaukee was 4th defensively in the league. No other team in the league has the defensive personnel to jettison this team to the top.

Mr. Gearon, Jr.

May 24th, 2011
3:13 pm

no one on this team will net Atlanta a center except PF/C Al Horford.
The truth is this league is lacking for centers. We might be able to trick people into think Horford is a center. Because his ability to shoot off the dribble is not good enough for a power forward.
There will always be somebody taller longer and stronger.
I’m leaning towards Horford, Hinrich, and Marvin Williams for Andrew Bogut, Larry Sanders (who would have been a lottery pick looking at this year’s slim draft class), Drew Gooden (backup power forward much like a veteran Taj Gibson, matches up well with backup power forwards) and John Salmons as a backup combo guard to replace Crawford with defense and THEN scoring.
Signing Al Thornton for cheap, puts us at:

Starters: Teague/Joe/Josh/LarrySanders/AndrewBogut
Reserves: John Salmons/pg-sg?/Thornton/Gooden/Pachulia

Al Thornton replaces Damien Wilkins unless he can run pg-sg better than Ronnie Price, Sundiata Gaines, or maybe a veteran for the MLE. Maybe T.J. Ford is hoping for too much.

Teague has shown the potential to become an 8 free throws, 8 assists per game guy which is elite for PG status and must be developed.
We want to avoid small lineups where we have Hinrich and Joe Johnson trying to defend/outscore Lebron. If Smith cannot do this at the 3 we’ll package him for Danny Granger leaving us with.

Starters: Teague/Joe/Granger/LarrySanders/AndrewBogut
Reserves: John Salmons/pg-sg?/Thornton/Gooden/Pachulia

That is 4 players who can drop 20 potentially in the starting lineup and draw double teams. Horford is not the kind of guy we want at the 4.

or
Starters: Teague/Joe/Josh Smith/LarrySanders/AndrewBogut
Reserves: John Salmons/pg-sg?/Thornton/Gooden/Pachulia

Josh Smith at the 3 hinges on him getting down to about Carmelo weight which is 235-236. Just two years ago he lost 15 lbs in the offseason and worked with Hakeem Olajuwon. If he can become a Shawn Marion type again the Hawks can become one of the best defensive teams in the league.