The Hawks fan base is a colorful lot, such that it is. When we’re not blaming our favorite targets for anything and everything, we’re busy trying to prove each other wrong and our own selves right. I’ll start this by saying that I don’t know if I’m right, and that it doesn’t matter either way. But…I do have an opinion, and a rather strong one. So do you, and I want to hear it, no matter how vehemently opposed it might be to mine or anybody else’s. But, let’s try and respect each other at the same time. Leave the insults to each other’s collective intelligences out of the conversation. After all, if we were all that smart and that good, we’d be running an NBA franchise. Right?
Here goes, and some of these thoughts have been fermenting for days, others for weeks, some for months, and still others for years.
The Future
With a collective bargaining agreement situation brewing, the possibility of no basketball next season is looming. However, I won’t dwell on this long, and the fact is that the NBA simply has to be paying attention to what’s going on with the NFL. Here’s the difference – the NFL is a 9 billion dollar business. Fans might be mad about the lockout, but as long as none of the games are missed, they’ll come right back and the NFL will STILL be a 9 billion dollar business. The NBA? Not nearly so lucky. David Stern is already looking for ways to keep things rolling. Two of the most powerful and popular teams (Lakers and Celtics) whether you hate to love them or love to hate them, have just fallen in this season’s playoffs, and it could very well be a while before they rise again. I’m betting L.A. gets back up off the mat before Boston does, but the point stands. The NBA can’t afford a black mark like a lockout, because they WILL lose significant business. Why? Although rising stars such as Blake Griffin, Derrick Rose, and Kevin Durant make the game exciting, it’s just not enough at the moment. The Heat are not even remotely beloved the way the Lakers once were, and there is no presence like Michael Jordan in the game any longer. Jordan’s presence was such that transcended all sports. People that never had a basketball in their hands knew who he was. There is no such guy in the NBA right now. Not with that type of marketability. No Magic Johnson, no Charles Barkley, none of those guys. I say the lockout won’t happen. But enough of that.
What’s the future for the Hawks? Kinda murky, if you ask me. They won’t sink to non-playoff team level. But they won’t get farther than they did this year, either. Not if they stand pat and maintain their usual status quo. They have to make some tough changes, or their future isn’t going to be much of a future. It’ll be more like a limbo.
Coach Drew
Larry Drew proved he was better in the postseason than Mike Woodson was. Was it enough? If the ASG doesn’t sell off the team and Rick Sund sticks around, my guess is “yes.” Should it be enough? Well, that can’t be truly determined without looking at the players as well. It can be hard to assign blame and credit when you just don’t know all the internal facts. Drew talked about accountability, but he had a very hard time enforcing it. Is that really his fault, or do we just want it to be? The man gets slain on the regular for his offensive schemes, his lack of defensive enforcement, and his substitutions and lineup choices. Yes, he spent six years with this team as an assistant coach. But, he was still a rookie head coach. Comparing him to other rookie head coaches could be rather unfair when you consider such factors as prior experience, assistant staff, GM and owner performance, and of course…who you have playing for you. Since the Hawks lost to the Bulls, it’s easy to compare Drew to Thibodeau. Well, consider the Bulls culture and then compare that to the Hawks. Yeahhhhh, not so favorable, eh? Now, consider that Thibodeau spent his most recent assistant job as the defensive mastermind on a team that not only stayed in the hunt for a championship for a few years, but actually won it. Suddenly, Drew’s assistant coach experience pales in front of Thibodeau’s. So comparisons aren’t going to be everything we want them to be. Then of course, there is the whole thing about Larry Drew and Jeff Teague. It looks to me like Drew is trying to cover himself just a bit when he says he intended all along to play Teague more against Chicago than he did against Orlando. Ok, maybe he did, but just how much more? Without speculating on that too long, I’ll just say it wouldn’t have been much more than he got in the regular season on a night-to-night basis. And here’s my opinion on Drew – the whole thing with Jeff Teague is both reasonable in the beginning (let him earn the starting job) and forgivable (not playing him enough) in the end. Why? Because Teague’s development did not make or break this season, although his presence in the 2nd round definitely helped us win 2 games we otherwise would not have, and remain pretty competitive.
Drew stays, and he won’t kill this team. But, there are questions. Can he coach this team to better heights if some personnel changes are made? Or will his own performance not get any better? Remember, this was his first year as a head coach. Is judging him conclusively at this time a wise thing? Drew is a part of this team’s culture. The question is this – is he a part that will hold the team back, or is he a part that can contribute to the betterment of this team? There is no neutral ground in the case of a head coach.
Who Stays, Who Needs to Go
Forget about Joe Johnson going. The Hawks signed him like he is the only face to this franchise, and unless a blockbuster deal is made for a team that wants to build something that can compete with the Heat, Thunder, Bulls, or whoever else figures to be at the top of the NBA pile, Johnson stays put. Having said that, rule nothing out. Chicago will find out that they probably don’t have quite enough talent/power out of their #2 guy, and they may be willing to do something to put themselves over the top. A clue to this will be how they do against Miami, so WATCH CLOSELY. I believe they are a true #2 player away from beating anybody in the League. Having said that, Joe strikes me as a guy who won’t hold this team back in a culture setting. If things beging to truly change, Joe can go with the flow. Especially if he becomes comfy with the idea of moving to the small forward position in the near future. As it is, he is still our best overall player and our most talented scorer. After watching how Joe played vs. how our supposed future team leaders played, you can’t tell me you want to trade Joe off for peanuts and a new pair of shoes. No way.
Marvin Williams is a guy a lot of people would like to get rid of, and after his nearly complete lack of a presence in this year’s playoffs, I can’t make a very strong argument for why we absolutely must keep him. Does he hurt us if he stays? Not unless we are forced to use him as a starter all the time. I think Marvin’s role is best as a guy coming off the bench now. If we can trade him away for good, useable value, I won’t cry. If not, then let him be a 20+ mpg bench guy. He doesn’t have to like it, he just has to be decent at it. On the other hand, if Damien Wilkins shows he still has a bit left in the tank, he’s a good “end of the bench” vet to have, as he can give better than “end of the bench” performances.
Kirk Hinrich just got here, and as long as he’s healthy, his versatility, smarts, and toughness aren’t easy to replace. Trading him is only something we should do if it’s a deal that really makes sense. Otherwise, he’s a good backup to both guard spots, especially at the point. I believe that Jeff Teague should be our starting point guard, especially if he comes back and plays the way he just did against Chicago. The future is fairly bright, all he needs is a better jumper with a higher release, nothing some intense summer training with a pro won’t fix. Pape Sy is a guy who intrigues me a bit. He seems smoother than Mario West was (but maybe just as energetic), obviously with more size, and he could be a solidly developing 2 or 3 for us next season. We shall see.
Who knows what will happen with Jamal Crawford. The guy is a gunslinger by trade, and that’s what you are buying when you hire him. The problems with Crawford begin when you try to use him as a point guard too much, let him have too much free rein with the offense, or leave him on the floor when perimeter defense is needed badly, or is needed far more than scoring. Otherwise, you should know what you’re getting when you pay for his services. Crawford is good to have, but maybe no longer for this team. Why? Because as the playoffs showed, we rely too much on our guards scoring, and relying on Crawford as the #2 scoring option has obvious side effects, as discussed a couple of sentences ago. The Hawks have to get past this and become a team that can score inside as well (or nearly as well) as they do outside. For that reason and no other, it may be best that Crawford moves on. Let me say that another way to avoid misunderstanding – Crawford is not a guy I see as a problem for this team. I see the use and the dependance upon him as a problem. There is a difference.
In the frontcourt, let’s start with the reserves. Etan Thomas was barely used and Josh Powell is just not consistent or physical enough. Both can go. Hilton Armstrong is a guy I still wonder about. I can see why he has floated from one team to another, but he’s another end of the bench guy. He can go too, but somebody has to be at the end of the bench. It’s either him or Thomas, most likely. Magnum Rolle (I still don’t know what he looks like) won’t figure into the conversation. Jason Collins has shown his usefulness and isn’t a bad person to keep around. He knows how to play his role and plays it well. As for Zaza Pachulia, much maligned as he was at times during the season….he’s a keeper. On a team like this that needs smart big men who aren’t afraid to get physical with anybody and who like rebounding? Trading him is something you do ONLY if you know that what you’re getting back is better. Otherwise, it’s plain stupid. Pachulia has proven himself yet again, and I think anybody would be hard-pressed to prove otherwise. Take a look at the game 6 boxscore and you’ll see precisely what I mean.
Now we come to the crux of it all: Al Horford and Josh Smith. There are going to be some truly hot opinions where this is concerned. I’ll go ahead and get this out there first – I believe that Josh Smith has to be traded. Why? Because it’s either him or Al Horford, but something has got to give. Let’s look at each guy and I’ll explain it.
Al Horford – Some people claim that Horford has better trade value and that may well be the truth. I find it ironic that those who want to trade him are going to base their arguments off of his performance, more specifically his playoff performance. Really? Then how do you reconcile that performance with him having a higher trade value? There must be substance for there to be a high trade value, and if there is significant substance, why would you want to trade that away? The problem with Al is mental, but it’s different than it is with Josh Smith. Al began the season wanting to move to power forward. Oh, he wouldn’t come right out and say it, but both he and his head coach talked about it plenty. He also began to play like it. And in the playoffs, it got worse. However, here is why you don’t trade Al Horford:
1) Despite Al’s sudden aversion to being the team’s tough guy, he still made the all-star team, and he also made the All-NBA team. Let me say that again – he made the ALL- NBA TEAM. Yes, it was the third team, but that still means he was named as one of the 15 best players in the League. You’re going to trade that away in favor of somebody who has yet to figure out how to make an all-star team? You better be getting an all-star back. And it better be a low post player. A center. Horford is substance, and not unrealized potential. Right now his learning curve is in the area where he has to learn how to maintain all-star level play, even in the postseason. He has to learn how to raise his game in the postseason.
2) Horford is coachable. Whatever his issue is mentally, it can be dealt with. Horford was a virtual beast his first three years. He can get that back. If one subpar playoffs is all it takes to throw a guy out, then there are a lot of guys who should have been traded a bunch of times. The man is a winner and a hard worker. He’ll look at how he played in this postseason and vow to never have that happen again. He’ll take the criticism, he won’t refute it or argue against it. He’ll own it. And he will do better. He will also do what his coach asks him to do.That is Al’s personality, it’s who he is. He’s not a dominating shot-blocker or an intimidating presence at the rim. He has weaknesses. He’s an all-star who didn’t play like an all-star. But he can fix it. He will fix it.
3) Horford has true leadership abilities. There is no substitution for that. The Hawks need true floor leaders, and Al is one, even if he failed at it this postseason. Some successes aren’t possible without the experience of failure first. Trade Al away, and you lose a leader.
Josh Smith – The mercurial forward has the uncanny and rare ability to change the game for his team on either end of the floor. He has more potential and capability to do this than any of his teammates. He’s the most dynamic defender, and one of the game’s most dangerous finishers on the fast break. All of this ability, and Josh just cannot seem to harness it for more than what sometimes feels like mere moments. Though it pains me as a long-time Smith supporter to say this, here is why Josh Smith needs to be traded:
1) All that potential and ability. After seven years, the best argument we have in his favor is that he was snubbed by the all-star voting. Some worry that if Smith leaves here, he becomes an all-star elsewhere. I call BS. Smith has the perfect and best opportunity to be an all-star here, but he just hasn’t bridged the gap. And guess what? He won’t. Josh will not play to his strengths long enough to help himself out, much less his team, on a consistent basis. For years we’ve said that Josh’s positives outweigh his negatives. That’s been true, and it’s been good enough for the “development and potential” years. That was good enough for the first 4 or maybe even 5 years. But it hasn’t been good enough for the last two years. It just isn’t good enough anymore. His negatives may be fewer, but they are hurting his individual game as well as this team’s performance.
2) This one hurts as well – Josh is not coachable enough. Maybe it takes a different coach, I don’t know. I’d love to say that Smith would succeed under a Gregg Popovich, a Phil Jackson, a Larry Brown, or maybe a Doc Rivers. But I just can’t prove it. Smith isn’t listening to anybody that is telling him what he doesn’t want to hear, and there are just too many interview or post game comments that make this obvious. As mentioned before, he just won’t play to his strengths enough, and as some have noted, he seems more interested in proving that his weaknesses aren’t weaknesses. What kind of team captain consistently ignores his coach? What does that do to the culture of a ballclub? Smith is intent all too often on playing the game the way he thinks he should play it, despite the overwhelming evidence that should show him otherwise. He doesn’t see it. He won’t see it. Smith is just too comfortable here, where he can claim seniority amongst his peers as a Hawk, where he isn’t shouted down by his non-confrontational teammates, where he was named a co-captain (a backfired plan). It’s not that good players don’t contend with their coaches. This happens plenty. But good players, especially the best ones, have a strong relationship with their coaches. One that works on the professional level, even if they never spend a minute together away from the court. And the best players can also back up their disagreements with production, while accepting the consequences of their actions. Josh doesn’t produce at his best when he plays how he wants to play (as opposed to how he SHOULD play), and he is also not very accepting of the consequences.
3) The hometown kid and highlight factory excuse is done. I understood the fear that any owner or GM would have in trading away a local hometown kid, especially if he was a key component to the team. Especially if they thought he might develop into a true star when traded away. Especially if his going took away an element that the team simply could not live without under any circumstances. But that is not the case here. Josh still makes the most electrifying plays in a Hawks uniform at Philips Arena. But they’ve been too few and far between. Disagree? Well that’s fine, but I’ll tell you right now – there is a reason why I’m convinced of this – when the vast majority of the home crowd in your arena groans, screams, or otherwise voices its collective disapproval every time you wind up for a jumpshot, you have just lost the hometown/local kid mystique. Sorry, but it’s over. People will miss the dunks. They’ll miss the blocks. They’ll even miss the full court passes. Until somebody else starts doing it. As it so happens, a 2nd year point guard is beginning to be known for his dunks and blocks. There will be more where that came from.
So there you have it. Change the culture, change the look, change the core. Trade Josh Smith, and the Hawks will accomplish all three. Having said that, trading him for the wrong person will make it look like a bad move. But it’s a move the Hawks have to make, I believe.
Fire away folks….
Big Ray, Hawks Fan Nest Blog
531 comments Add your comment
Big Ray
May 14th, 2011
8:15 pm
Myrak43 ,
Found your post, sorry.
That’s a good question. I am reserving my answers for later. I can certainly see the merit in keeping Horford and Smith and adding a center, but how can the Hawks do that with the payroll they have invested in guys who are under contract beyond this season? I mean, their payroll is around $67 million for next season, and that doesn’t include Jamal, who comes off the books this summer .
Trading Al Horford – here’s where I agree: You have to get an all-star in return. We have two all-stars and neither is named Josh Smith (despite how some on this blog defend him like he’s a close family member). If you trade one away in today’s NBA, you better be getting something good in return, like a good player and a lottery pick. But if you’re doing that, you’re already conceding that you’re going to take a step back if/until that lottery pick player develops into a good NBA player. That’s assuming you even pick the right guy and he stays healthy. You could get Greg Oden, or you could get Blake Griffin.
Trading Horford for Gasol – not a bad move, but that still really puts us with a guy who can play center, but would rather play PF. Have we solved a problem then? Gasol isn’t playing center as long as the Lakers have Bynum. Would he be okay playing with a PF who keeps acting like a SF?
What happens when Gasol is waiting for the ball on the blocks, and Josh jacks up another errant 20-footer? Gasol ain’t happy with how Kobe acts half the time, and Kobe is the NBA’s most dangerous assassin. Having said that, Gasol is better than Horford.
But wait, you DID mention getting Chuck Hayes!
Ok, I’m game for this one – my starting lineup goes like this:
C – Hayes
PF – Gasol
SF – Smith
SG – Johnson
PG – Teague
One more thing to add – Rick Adelman and a free agent hypnotist for Smith.
How’s that sound?
Big Ray
May 14th, 2011
8:24 pm
Big Daddy ,
Good post. I think your analogy of Josh Smith to Derrick Coleman is spot on in a lot of ways (except the stats, Coleman was better there). I don’t want Smith to end up like this, but after 7 years, what the hell is anyone supposed to think? Every year we see how he has the most potential to impact the game on both sides of the floor, and every year we watch him put stuff the stat sheet, but not carry the team when it needs it the most. Or as some of us like to say, “when it counts.”
Nothing is worse than unrealized potential, if you ask me.
I think LD would get himself fired if Teague isn’t the starting pg next year. That is, unless Teague shows up to camp totally unprepared to play and out of shape.
As you say, hope springs eternal…
Big Ray
May 14th, 2011
8:27 pm
Jerry West ,
Very interesting post. Do we need a pg that bad, even after how Teague showed up in Round 2 of the playoffs? I’d go Paul or DWill. I like Nash, but he’s up there in age, and NOT a defender by any stretch of the imagination. Do we really want to go there again ?
Marvin will be a 20ppg scorer
May 14th, 2011
8:51 pm
@Big Ray
As you can see Marvin was around the 14ppg for 3 seasons in a row..so what changed the last 2 years?..JAMAL CRAWFORD..When he came, Marvin numbers went down, because Jamal is a volume shooter and he and joe jacked up a lot of shots…I can’t wait until Marvin leaves and come back to score 20 in the “highlight factory”!
‘05-’06 ATL 8.5
‘06-’07 ATL 13.1
‘07-’08 ATL 14.8
‘08-’09 ATL 13.9
‘09-’10 ATL 10.1
This year 10.4
Ken Strickland
May 14th, 2011
9:21 pm
BIG RAY-I certainly hope you’re right, because I had a hard time believing NIREMETAL was that shallow.
Rahvi
May 14th, 2011
9:27 pm
Couple hundred words to state the obvious. That said, the Hawks will always dwell in the second tier of the NBA. No franchise that sells opposing player’s gear, that has half their “crowd” supporting the visiting team, and routinely disappears at home in big games will ever compete for a NBA Championship. They are a mediocre, underachieving bore that everyone in Basketball dreaded the unlikely prospect of meeting Miami.
WR
May 14th, 2011
9:30 pm
Big Ray, just got a chance to read your post and I offer this as some sort of defense, and no I’m not a Josh lover, not to say you called me that. Anyway, so far Josh has not had a coach command or bench him if he leaves the post. Woodson was close, but when Drew stepped in Josh practically ran back out to the perimeter. Now to more of my reasoning concerning Josh, I understand we’re all tired of the hope, but at least there is hope as opposed to Joe Johnson in which there is not much hope of him getting any better. Thats not to degrade Joe he is truly Atlanta’s best player but at 29 a decline is closer then any real improvement.
At 25 Josh has a very immense amount of talent, truth is we may never see the brain to go with it, but who do get for a Josh, Bynum out of LA is the best option, but the Lakers won’t go that route especially while he could be used to get Dwight Howard. Now for all the well deserved complaining we do about Billy Knight, imagine your thoughts concerning trading Josh and the value the Hawks will receive in return.
Hawks without Josh, of course Horford moves to power forward, Joe stays the same, Teague emerges, Crawford is surely gone considering the money and lack of defense he plays. That leaves a need of SF, C, and a good sixth man. So the question then begs who of equal or at least decent value do you get to replace Smith. We would have to ask are there any decent SF or C that would improve the team more so then a loss of Smith diminishing the team, and again I say outside of Bynum I don’t see it.
Now dumping Marvin and bringing in a shooter at SF, or dumping Marvin and a sign in trade of Crawford in a combo for a decent center all these moves improve the team. I get the frustration and trade Smith talk, I don’t totally disagree, but when it comes to value what can you get in return, now I’ll take a top 5 pick in the lottery for the chance to take the best center or small forward in the draft, but thats about the only real value you can get from trading Smith.
my take
May 14th, 2011
9:41 pm
Let Crawford walk and trade Josh. Crawford refuses to fit into an offense (Joe will at least play through whatever offense we’re running) and Josh just does whatever he wants to do.
And of course, if anyone wants Marvin, give him to them and take whatever in return.
niremetal
May 14th, 2011
9:58 pm
Ken,
I was poking fun at your little typo of “John McCain” as “John McClain.” Since I love the Die Hard movies, I couldn’t resist the opportunity to promote the idea of McClane (or, as you put it, “McClain”
) for President.
Funny. John McCain has been on the national political scene for basically my whole life, and the Die Hard movies have been around almost 25 years. But not until today did I realize how close “John McCain” is to “John McClane.”
WR
May 14th, 2011
9:59 pm
I believe Charles Barkley put it best regarding the Hawks. If the Hawks were running a system similar to that implemented by Dantoni in NYC(probably spelled the name wrong) the Hawks would be unstoppable. As is trading Smith appears to be the best option, actually probably the only option considering you can’t give Marvin away and Joe happens to be the highest paid player in the NBA. A running Hawks team takes Smith off the perimeter, he doesn’t have the time to float out there, a running Hawks team with Smith and Horford down low leaves makes team’s focus on the paint which would lead to more open looks by the trailing Joe Johnson. Teague is the perfect point guard for an up tempo Hawks team, with him running the show and considering all the athleticism at every position who really matches up to the Hawks. Lets answer the real question before we move on with the Smith trade talk, why is it that the Hawks are such a half court team without half court personnel. Drew’s motion did help some, Josh Smith’s perimeter shooting did hurt alot, but truth is the personal of the Hawks hasn’t been built for Half-court offense in years.
Ken Strickland
May 14th, 2011
10:04 pm
JJohnson is an excellent all around player, but he lacks the speed, quickness and athleticism to consistently beat the double teams he routinely receives. We need to add another consistent OFF threat to our starting lineup in order to take the double team pressure off of him.
Teague is a very good start, but we need another outside shooter. As much as JCollins has contributed to our teams success, we need a center that can do what he does and also rebound. Horford needs more help in the middle. With our financial woes, unless a big trade is forthcoming, we’ll have to deal primarily with what we have.
A lineup of JJ-SF, Horford-C, JSmith-PF, Hinrich-SG and Teague-PG would be very solid, both offensively and defensively. A bench comprised of MWilliams, DWilkins, Pape Sy, ZPachulia, JCollins, HArmstrong and a FA PG, would be solid.
niremetal
May 14th, 2011
10:05 pm
It’s kind of like over on Hawksquawk, somebody started discussing whether Horford deserved to make the All-Star team over “Bogart.” Somebody else then mentioned that “Bogart” had played terribly all season. One of my favorite posters, beating me to the punch, then teased the typo-ists by saying “Bogart was at his best when he said ‘Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine.’” I later piped in by adding “Guys, stop Bogarting this thread.”
You can see the hilarity here:
http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index.php/topic/355594-allstar-reserves-will-be-announced-tonight-on-tnt/page__st__30
This is why I love blogs.
WR
May 14th, 2011
10:20 pm
Honestly, and it might sound like I’m trying to be funny but I’m being serious, instead of trading Josh the Hawks should go out and hire him a therapist. Here’s why, so far its obvious with the coaches, in the media and with fans, that Josh needs to hangout in the post and leave those jumpers alone. Now think about what I just said, if the coaches, fans, and media see this, do not his friends and family the people who care about him beyond basketball, I believe they do. Which would leave a mental disability at worse, or just plain insanity at best. We love them for being players but we have to remember their human, considering the human factor, one has to really wonder is Josh mentally all there. Get Dr. Phil in here today, secretly give the guy an IQ test, if its less then Ron Artest trade him now, if there’s actually something going on up there get this guy a therapist before its to late.
Myrak43
May 14th, 2011
10:25 pm
Ken Strickland
May 14th, 2011
10:04 pm
“”A lineup of JJ-SF, Horford-C, JSmith-PF, Hinrich-SG and Teague-PG would be very solid, both offensively and defensively. A bench comprised of MWilliams, DWilkins, Pape Sy, ZPachulia, JCollins, HArmstrong and a FA PG, would be solid”"”
that is the same lineup we have now!! yes it is solid.
but it is a 2nd round playoff exit team. don’t you want to take it to another level. or is status quo good enough for you? it is not good enough for me?
I WANT A CHAMPIONSHIP IN ATLANTA!!!!
Big Ray
May 14th, 2011
11:31 pm
my take ,
I wouldn’t say that. Crawford is a gunslinger, and that’s all there is to it. I also have to give him credit for trying to be a pg when LD used him as such (when he should have been playing Teague more).
All the same, I can agree to letting him walk…or to signing him back up for reasonable money and using him as he SHOULD be used – a SG off the bench to give you some points…and nothing more.
harpie
May 14th, 2011
11:31 pm
This team will NEVER improve with Larry Drew as coach!
Big Ray
May 14th, 2011
11:35 pm
Marvin will be a 20ppg scorer ,
Let me rescue you before “Rod from College Park” sees this. A couple of things to consider:
1) If Marvin wasn’t a 20 ppg scorer BEFORE Jamal came here, why would he be one AFTER he’s gone?
2) If Jamal joined the New York Knicks, would Carmelo Anthony suddenly fade into a 15 ppg scorer? If Jamal went to Indiana, would the same thing happen to Granger? We can’t blame Jamal for this. If anything, it should have made Marvin fight for his shots. But he didn’t.
Big Ray
May 14th, 2011
11:41 pm
WR ,
I’d be in favor of hiring a sports psychologist for Josh. A reputable one. Whoever is in his ear right now sucks monkey turds.
As for if we traded Josh, no I don’t think we’d have a hole at SF. My thinking there is to move Joe Johnson to the position, a la Paul Pierce. It’s less wear and tear on him, and with Teague/Hinrich, he doesn’t have to guard PGs anymore.
Does that give us a hole at SG? Yes, but we could survive that. First, we have Hinrich, who can put some time in at the spot here and there while also playing backup PG. Second, SG is one of the easier slots to fill in the NBA. You can even get away with having a platoon at that position, or just a tough-minded guy who doesn’t need a whole bunch of shots.
If you don’t believe that, then you haven’t seen the Chicago Bulls. Who’s there SG? Keith Bogans?
DecDawg
May 15th, 2011
4:00 am
I know changes need to be made. Even as a Josh fan, I agree that he needs to be traded…but for different reasons. But if we trade Josh, we need to trade Al too unless we can get a center with a low-post game. While Josh does shoot too many jumpers, his low-post game is much better than Al’s. Al prefers to shoot jumpers and is not very effective in the post. And since there aren’t many centers out there with a low-post game, we will be in the same position we are in right now relying on our guards to carry the load on offense.
Not sure if we would be better or not, but I am sure we wouldn’t be able to compete in the East. But at least we would “like” all of our players, right?
Atlanta fan
May 15th, 2011
6:24 am
Hopefully the ASG will sell the team and then the hawks could do what the falcons did bring in a young general manager with a good knowledge of talent and a professional coach who takes no bs. Dump Sund the contracts for Johnson and Williams were just plain dumb. Giving up two number ones for kurt was another dumb move. The hawks with Woodson and Drew how do you expect the team to get better. Losing so many games by twenty points you need to make changes.
joe
May 15th, 2011
6:56 am
Good thoughts, you didn’t address one glaring problem though. A GM who can hit his a## with both hands.
Sund has to be the first one to go…..
lilbit
May 15th, 2011
7:40 am
Teague did good at PG, but not great! I watch him play in the series and was very disappointed that he fear the three point shot when he was wide open one time. Him and Josh were the only one, playing the Chicago series. Where was ISO JOE, where was J Crawford, hell Al was in the game either. These two guys shows that they wanted to win and move forward to the next series. I agree that JOE MUST GO! If Teague can get his perimeter shooting game better then l agree start him. trading Josh nah, he is our best defender. So I suggest the Hawks trade Marvin, Crawford, and Joe is possible. Lets get Bynum cause Howard don’t want to come home, hell try to get CP3 maybe shake it up some. Wishful thinking on my part.
Buddy Grizzard
May 15th, 2011
8:24 am
“Nobody else on the team has proven themselves to be good enough to carry us if Joe isn’t playing well enough. Bottom line – hate him or love him, Joe is our best player on this team. If Smith was better, he would have carried us to more wins than we had.
Case closed.”
Case open. So you’re saying Joe carried us in Game 4? He had 24 points, 1 rebound, 5 assists and 0 blocks and was +9 for the game. Josh Smith had 23 points, 16 rebounds, 8 assists, 2 blocks and was +18 for the game. But Joe carried us and is our best player?
“I’m not going to argue about Larry Drew. I say he isn’t killing us any worse than some of the on-court gaffes that our players have made.”
That’s making excuses for Drew. And guess what? The Hawks are capped out and have very limmited flexibility as far as making personnel changes. But they’re perfectly free to fire Las Vegas Larry and hire a coach that you can say something better about than “he doesn’t make any more mistakes than the players do.”
I’d leave it alone, but you keep making such bad arguments I can’t help myself.
WR
May 15th, 2011
8:35 am
Big Ray, Keith Bogans, I mean I kinda feel I know where your trying to go here, but Bogans has been all over the NBA and now with the league MVP as his running mate he’s looked decent but thats about it. Consider this, Bogans guards an opponents shooting guard, if that guard drives he has substantial help in the post with Noah, Boozer, and a nice collection of bigs off the bench, all he has to concentrate on is not giving up open looks on jumpshots. Offensively with every team collapsing to protect the paint against Rose, then considering the low post threat of Boozer the rebounding prowlus of Noah and the overall game of Deng, of course Bogans can roam for open three point looks.
Fast forward to the Hawks, with Joe now at SF, who plays center, is AL at C or PF, Teague is now your starting PG and Hinrich at SG. Where O’ Where is the defense in this lineup. You say just get a reliable SG but where is the offense in this lineup. The Hawks would struggle to stop anyone from scoring and they also would struggle to score period. The difference between moving Pierce as opposed to Joe, Pierce can create his shots and is steady on the defensive side, add to that the knockdown shooter that is Ray Allen and teams have to pick and choose when to double. Double down on Joe and limit drives in the paint to Teague and the Hawks because worse then the Clippers. Hinrich is a streaky shooter at best, Teague doesn’t have a consistent jump shot, you still have no center and Noah just proved Al can be guarded one on one and if just happens not to be making his jumper thats about it. No defense, No offense=bad idea at best.
WR
May 15th, 2011
8:43 am
Buddy Grizzard, just put it best, it seems to be easier to dump a talented player with hope for the hope of a least getting a decent player that will listen more. Problem is listen to whom, I said the same last night, yes the Hawks are hurting salary cap wise, but hiring a good not decent coach for their talent level doesn’t hurt the salary cap. But for a blog its easy, well Larry Drew helped get the Hawks over the Hump that Mike Woodson built up to get them to this point, so it must be the players, get a good reputable coach in here before we completely diminish the talent pool.
KevinM
May 15th, 2011
8:49 am
Wishful vs. Reality……this would be a good reality Internet for us Hawks followers. Watching how Sund sees this team and the decisions made to move forward.
Before you can get into any discussion about roster moves, the fate of Rick Sund must be decided.
If I were to take a poll here, I would guessitmate 2 out of 10 Hawks’ fans would want to see the 30+ year vet come back.
Does Sund get credit for building a contender in Detroit? Why is all of this fuzzy to me? Did Dumars step in and complete the task? A little feedback, please.
What have we seen from Sund so far are strategic moves that don’t involve a star component. He brought in Jamal for little-to-nothing contributors, and he moves “in his prime”
Bibby for Something very valuable to this organization: 2 draft picks. We got serviceable, limited players in return. What does Sund say? “I felt like we had to make a move”.
IMO, he strapped this organization with little immediate future moves unless he decides to move one of the 3 captains. It would be clearer if the captains would just go on the Apprentice and have Trump fire one of them after a board room session. It would probably end up being Josh because Joe and Al are just ‘liked’ so much. I don’t think Sund has it in him to make such a move. His last trade has Hawks’ fans livid mainly because the potential of Jordan Crawford. (I don’t see what most are seeing but I admit, 2 #1s to move Bibby was too expensive. What’s funny in all this is Bibby never came off the bench for one game despite his decline…..amazing. Drew must have been in total fear for his life.
What all of us have seen is that Drew is an average coach. I think we all knew that and didn’t need it to be proven to us. Last summer, I said “Anybody but Larry” and I was appalled when he sold his ‘familiararity
KevinM
May 15th, 2011
9:06 am
Wishful vs. Reality……this would be a good reality Internet for us Hawks followers. Watching how Sund sees this team and the decisions made to move forward.
Before you can get into any discussion about roster moves, the fate of Rick Sund must be decided.
If I were to take a poll here, I would guessitmate 2 out of 10 Hawks’ fans would want to see the 30+ year vet come back.
Does Sund get credit for building a contender in Detroit? Why is all of this fuzzy to me? Did Dumars step in and complete the task? A little feedback, please.
What have we seen from Sund so far are strategic moves that don’t involve a star component. He brought in Jamal for little-to-nothing contributors, and he moves “in his prime”
Bibby for Something very valuable to this organization: 2 draft picks. We got serviceable, limited players in return. What does Sund say? “I felt like we had to make a move”.
IMO, he strapped this organization with little immediate future moves unless he decides to move one of the 3 captains. It would be clearer if the captains would just go on the Apprentice and have Trump fire one of them after a board room session. It would probably end up being Josh because Joe and Al are just ‘liked’ so much. I don’t think Sund has it in him to make such a move. His last trade has Hawks’ fans livid mainly because the potential of Jordan Crawford. (I don’t see what most are seeing but I admit, 2 #1s to move Bibby was too expensive. What’s funny in all this is Bibby never came off the bench for one game despite his decline…..amazing. Drew must have been in total fear for his life.
What all of us have seen is that Drew is an average coach. I think we all knew that and didn’t need it to be proven to us. Last summer, I said “Anybody but Larry” and I was appalled when he sold his ‘familiarity” to the ASG. That one move convinced me to not buy one single ticket this year on protest…”ASG, because of this inept move, you will not get my money”. I held true to my word.
Drew is average, Sund is gun-shy (Is it because of his good friend, Pete Babcock?). Sund might be of the mindset to not make any drastic moves to play this out for as long as possible because this is probably my last GM job in the NBA. What I truly believe is had Knight not resigned, he would still be here as well. This group of owners has kept Don Waddell around all this time. The guy can’t get himself fired!
So I believe we see more Sund, more Drew, and more core. What a rotten deal we Hawks’ fans have gotten! Don’t look for any blockbuster prior to next season.
We will have to deal with pumping up value for Marvin (after he spends another summer working out in Chapel Hill)(along with another disappointment Sean May: can you imagine the conversations between these 2 about their careers?).
We will have excess at PF, a 3 guard lineup of Joe/Kirk/Jeff.
We get 2 new bench players, one to stand in line to defend Dwight, and a valuable 2nd rounder at draft slot 58.
More of the same at Philips next year and there is nothing we can do about it.
WR
May 15th, 2011
9:10 am
Kevin for the most part I agree with your post. I want to focus on the “like” more so then anything else. Al is the most likeable player on the team, so much so that hardly anyone is mentioning the fact that he too was taking far to many jumpers against the Bulls and wasn’t hitting anything. When he did get the ball down low there was nothing much to show there either. But the question begs was Smith jumpers any worse then Al’s and more so why is it so easy to dismiss the fact that the entire front line of the Hawks outside of Zaza operated on the perimeter not the paint.
Here’s why, for all the frustration fans had toward Smith’s jumpers its because they knew he couldn’t be stopped in the paint. Someone posted that Smith’s not constantly double teamed or game planned for, I beg to differ if you watched him when he decided to go down in the paint, and there even with double teams he was unstoppable. When Smith plays to his strengths he can and would be a perennial all star, as most observed when he’s focused and not taking erratic jumpers he’s one of the best at his position. But here we go back to the word “like” no one likes a player that doesn’t play to his strengths, hence the continual absence from being an all star, everyone loves a constant preceived smart hustling player hence, Al an allstar.
For some reason Hawks fans have come to accept mediocrity, your a Smith lover for pointing out the guy has never had nothing beyond an average coach. Your a Smith lover because he takes all these erratic jumpers on a team where the entire team does nothing but do the same, even Jason Collins. Sorry I’m not a Smith lover but I don’t dislike him because of his demeanor either, what I do dislike is the fact that the Hawks haven’t went after a real coach in over a decade.
Huegel
May 15th, 2011
9:18 am
The Hawks need a reliable, inside offensive presence. Trade one local kid (Josh Smith) for another (Dwight Howard). Get ‘er done…
RustyCopper
May 15th, 2011
11:56 am
No way around it, it has to start with getting rid of Smith.
You bring in a new coach, and it will be just a matter of time before Smith flips him off for telling him to do (or not do) something.
Smith’s history has proven this. He wants to play his game, and doesn’t care what the coach says, his team mates say, or the fans.
Getting rid of Drew without getting rid of Smith will 100% ensure we’re re-living the same drama every year until Smith is gone.
RustyCopper
May 15th, 2011
12:10 pm
Unless you start by trading Smith, getting a new coach isn’t going to do any good. We’ll be right back at square one. He doesn’t like being told what to do, will never like being told what to do, and has a long history of being trouble when he isn’t allowed to do what he wants.
O'Brien
May 15th, 2011
2:03 pm
Big Ray,
JJ at SF is not a bad idea if Teague and Hinrich are at the guard spots. And JJ can play minutes at backup SG when Marvin comes in the game.
My take on LD for the season is this. I think he comes up with a good game plan, and good plays out of timeouts. However, he is not good at making adjustments during the game. And he is not good at motivating the players to execute his game plan.
I think he will be here next year, so it will be interesting to see what improvements are made, especially since the League will have one year to adjust to his “never before seen motion offense”.
Sautee
May 15th, 2011
3:40 pm
Buddy Grizzard,
Tell Ray he’s using a straw man. That’ll teach him.
suburbbie
May 15th, 2011
4:36 pm
It all stars with Smith. You fire drew, and you’ll just have smiths 3rd victim.
ICECOLD
May 15th, 2011
4:57 pm
Big Ray
May 14th, 2011
12:21 am
ICECOLD ,
So basically you’re saying that we should keep the same team, with the exception of Marvin Williams, and pick a center that is already under contract with another team. Okay, you had me on the side of the road with that one….but then you mention Hasheem Thabeet ?
Noooooooo! The human lottery pick bust!
I didnt mean to say him.. Not Hasheem Thabeet.. I meant the center that play for the pacers!!! I always get their names mixed up!! but not the same team… our same team is
Kirk
Joe
Marvin
Josh
Al
Im talkin bout a team that embraces a great athletic point guard in Jeff Teague, and actually letting Josh Smith play small forward , and having a true center.. Thats a whole different make up of a team. u only have 3 personels who are all possible all star caliber players, and then basically two new starters !!!!
thats a big difference!! because now you dont have people guessing what position they will be playing the next game so they will always be ready!!
If I was GM i will get rid of Marvin.. he trully doesent do anything for you starting or off the bench.. !!
This team is a center away… its obvious.. in the playoffs, we lost because of rebounding and dribble penitration by Derrick Rose…. a true center will stop all that !! or at least help stop all that
ICECOLD
May 15th, 2011
5:24 pm
Trade Joe Johnson, Marvin Williams, Zaza Pachulia, and a second round pick for Danny Granger and Roy Hibbert..
then see what other free agents you can get if possible.. if not. . . . keep this team
starting five would be
Jeff Teague
Danny Granger
Josh Smith
Al Hordord
Roy Hibbert
bench would be
Kirk Hinrich
Jamal Crawford
Pap sy/ damien Wilkins
Hilton Armstrong/ Josh Powell
Collins/ Magnum Rolle
I know you might say they wont do it.. but u wont know until you try !!
myrak43
May 15th, 2011
6:38 pm
ICECOLD@
May 15th, 2011
5:24 pm
you really don’t have a clue how trades in the NBA work do you. so you are saying that Indy will send out about 14.5M and take in a little more than 30M. why would Indy do us a favor such as this? then on top of that huge favor they give us their starting Center. ICECOLD the next time you make a trade ask yourself. If I was the fan of the other team would I do it?
Big Ray
May 15th, 2011
6:51 pm
Buddy Grizzard ,
No, you can’t let this go because you always find a segment of what I post that looks like a good target, and then you strike.
Case open. So you’re saying Joe carried us in Game 4? He had 24 points, 1 rebound, 5 assists and 0 blocks and was +9 for the game. Josh Smith had 23 points, 16 rebounds, 8 assists, 2 blocks and was +18 for the game. But Joe carried us and is our best player?
Nope. Stop trying to put words in my mouth. And don’t try feeding me straw, because I’m not a horse. I said that when Joe played well (i.e., leads in scoring and shoots better than 50%), we won against Chicago. I’m sure to you that it’s just coincidence, but since you bring the point up, let me challenge you with these questions –
1) Josh had a GREAT game in game 4. He helped carry us. But let’s say that Joe has a bad performance in that game. Instead of leading the team with 24 points and shooting 9 of 14 from the field, let’s say he has a game like he did in game 3, where he scored just 10 points and only hit 4 of 12 shots. What then? Does is Josh’s performance enough to get us the win? Remember, we won by 12.
2) What happened in game 1? Joe scored 34 points, shot really well from the field. We won. Who else would you like to give credit for that win to?
Bottom line – one more time – Joe does well, we tend to win. If that isn’t our best player, then I’d like for you to prove to me who the best player is, and WHY.
I’m willing to listen. But I want a good, solid argument. Show me how Josh was the best guy (or Teague) for us against Chicago. The result is in winning, you are going to have a VERY hard time proving how a guy is our best player when the result is a loss.
You can even use the Orlando series. Was Josh the best player there? Was it somebody else? Who carried us in that series? I suspect the FACTS will point to the two guys you named as liabilities (JJ, Jamal), but if you can prove me wrong, I’m listening….
I have a whole separate post for you on the subject of Larry Drew. Hopefully you will understand my view on LD once you’ve read it.
Big Ray
May 15th, 2011
7:07 pm
Buddy Grizzard and WR ,
Look, I am not a blind supporter of Larry Drew. My points on him remaining as the Hawks coach are merely my perspective on what I think management and ownership is thinking. I don’t know what they are thinking, but I suspect that I’m close to what they’re liable to be thinking.
I’m not making excuses for the guy. I’m calling it like I see it. You argue that he’s holding this team back. I say that he got better results than his predecessor. And there it is . You have to stop thinking like a fan and try and think like a group of decision-makers who are apparently NOT going for the gusto in the traditional way – by spending lots of money on big names from the outside.
If the ASG and Sund did not have the gumption to go after a proven (and pricier) head coach after bombing out of the second round in horrible fashion LAST SEASON, then why would they all of the sudden decide to spend more money when the cheap guy they promoted got the team further than the guy they let walk away?
These guys are penny pinchers. In order for them to hire a better coach (and funny, those who say Larry Drew has to go have yet to say exactly who the Hawks should hire, and WHY that person will get them to the NBA championship), they have to believe that spending money on such a guy will get them to a championship, assuming that this is the goal. So what reasons do they have to believe that a better coach is the missing key, and the ONLY missing key?
Think about it. I’ll say it one more time – they did not see fit to hire a coach who had the credentials when they had the chance last year . Maybe Avery Johnson was the right guy to hire, maybe he wasn’t. Maybe he would have been a good fit, maybe he wouldn’t. But did he not have the credentials as a guy who could get a talented team to the NBA Finals? Didn’t he do that in Dallas? Didn’t Avery Johnson meet with the Hawks a couple of times last summer?
Then WHY did the Hawks decide to go the cheapest route possible, by promoting one of the assistants to the guy they let go? Don’t you get it? This has never been about Larry Drew. This has always been about the guys who decided to promote him.
Having said that, I don’t think Drew is what drags this team down, not by himself. We’ve seen him coach for one year. Could he be better with personnel that fit his schemes better? Maybe. It’s also possible that he couldn’t do any better than he has this year. I really don’t know. What I do know is that I’ve heard him in the huddles on national tv, imploring his team to keep the intensity up, to play tough defense, to take the right shots, and to keep up with personnel and ball movement. And I’ve seen certain guys go right out of those huddles and do other things.
So I ask again…which championship caliber coach will get some of these guys to play hard every night (and play the right way), and how do you convince the ASG to pay the price to get him?
I’d love to know the answer.
Big Ray
May 15th, 2011
7:14 pm
Another thing on this “get another coach” wagon….
The whole argument about Josh Smith and “get a better coach” sounds to me like it hinges on the idea that we can win it all if we can get a coach who will make Josh play like the all-star he can be. Is that all it takes for this team to get to the NBA Finals?
Will this same coach also be able to guarantee:
1) That Al Horford will accept his role as a full-time center, and go back to being a double double guy every night, and score in the post.
2) That Jamal Crawford will be a solid defender and not fall into bad shooting streaks.
3) That Marvin Williams will quit disappearing and find a role, and stick to it.
4) That Joe will live up to his contract in a way that pleases all fans.
Because hey, if a different coach can make Josh into the perennial all-star that he hasn’t been for 7 straight seasons, then surely he can do all the rest, right?
My point – I’m not saying hire a better coach (I’m all for it if you can convince ownership to spend money on the right guy). I’m saying you are best served by NOT STOPPING THERE…
Big Ray
May 15th, 2011
7:44 pm
WR ,
If the lineup looks like this – Teague (PG), Hinrich (SG), Johnson (SF), you already have a pretty solid defensive group, and all three guys can score.
Hinrich is no more streaky than Jamal is. The differenc is Hinrich can ably play both backcourt spots and defend them as well. And, he doesn’t have to be shooting exceptionally well to be effective on the court. As I recall, the Bulls lineup was Rose (PG), Bogans (SG), and Deng (SF). Did Rose stop Teague? Did Bogans stop Joe (not without lots of help)?
By the way, I think JJ is a better defender than Pierce. I’ve watched him guard three positions. Can Pierce do that? Nope. I’ve seen JJ shut Danny Granger down in the 4th quarter. Pierce can’t do that either, he’s just a hair too slow. Could Pierce chase Rose or harass Tony Parker? Nope. JJ is a better defender. He just doesn’t always play like it.
But what if you added a guy like Anthony Morrow to the squad? You can play him at the 2, and he won’t cost more than say….Marvin Williams…IF that much. Morrow shoots 45% from the field, but more importantly his career percentage from 3 point land is 44.7% The guy can score adn has a decent shooting percentage to go with it. God help the opposing team if you’re setting screens for him.
Morrow is just one example of a SG that can be had without paying too much money. He’s a bigger threat than Bogans on any day, and he’s a more efficient threat than Crawford. Just an idea.
As for where Horford plays, that’s a good question. He can play center or power forward, but we need a big rugged guy in there with him, preferably somebody who knows how to BOX OUT and will get physical down low. We don’t have that in our starting lineup.
Some say trade Horford, but you’re trading an all-star for what exactly? Who are you going to get? No really, I want a name…because like it or not, you’re trading a bonafide all-star. If you trade him, you have to get a star in return, not just “some big guy.” There are plenty of those around, and they don’t win you championships.
Trading Josh brings similar questions, but you’re trading potential that hasn’t been realized in 7 years already. We keep saying that this is the year he puts it all together. We said that the last three years. Shows he can do 4 or 5 things really well on any given night, but I’ll be damned if he’ll do it more than 4 nights out of 10, much less four in a row. And again, who do you get?
It seems to me that we’re struggling with offense NOW, and it’s one reason why we lost in the 2nd round…AGAIN. I mean, I wasn’t impressed with Horford’s numbers by far, but I wasn’t more impressed with Josh’s. They combined for 26 ppg in the playoffs.
So if trading Horford, does that automatically raise Smith’s average to say….18 ppg or more? Not if he keeps chucking up airballs and rim clangers.
At the same time, if you trade Smith, will that raise Horford’s average? Not if he doesn’t get more aggressive and work on his post game.
Are we trading either guy to improve scoring? Or should we hire a $4 million dollar a year coach who will guarantee that either guy (or both) are suddenly all-star types who perform every night?
Big Ray
May 15th, 2011
7:55 pm
ICECOLD ,
Man, I’m glad it was Hibbert you were thinking of, not Thabeet.
Hibbert’s got the size for certain, and he improved a good deal this past season (as my friend Melvin is always so happy to remind me of
).
However, should we judge him at all by the series he had against Chicago?
I mean, here we have a 7′2″ 278 lb starting center who managed just 10.4 points and 6.8 rebounds per game against the Bulls in the first round.
Ouch.
That’s less impressive than the damnably evil and ultra soft enemy of Hawks basketball otherwise known Al Horford.
Hey…maybe that means that the Bulls are actually a great defensive team that is tough to play against?
Nah.
Al sucks and we need to hire the mystery championship coach. That’s the answer.
O'Brien
May 15th, 2011
9:09 pm
doc,
How about the Thunder making it to the conference finals. Use your draft picks wisely (Durant, Westbrook), hire the right coach (Scott Brooks), and get the right role players. Hawks messed it up multiple times, and are stuck in the rut of losing in the second round.
Big Ray,
Al talked about the Chicago way. The Chicago way is to have the right role players, and a coach who convinces his players to buy into his system.
They have 3-pt shooters (Korver and Bogans), a desginated rebounder (Noah), energy guys (Noah, Gibson, Asik), a low post guy (Boozer, who is 20 and 10 potential), and of course, a legit PG. And their HC convinced them to buy into his team defense scheme.
I think Teague and HInrich make a good PG combo, but Hawks dont have any role players (except maybe ZaZa, who gives you offensive rebounding, and some energy). And our coach has not been able to convince his players to buy into anything.
doc
May 15th, 2011
9:29 pm
i wonder if rick sund could guarantee us a ecf championship appearance like he did for the seattle sonics, oh i mean the okc thunder? heh heh
doc
May 15th, 2011
9:44 pm
o’b i just saw your comments. if we had gotten roy even and not cp3 or dw i think we would have gotten it if there had been any imagination by billy knight instead of a desire to get 6′9″ guys that have big butts.
anyone wonder why we got the other turk, was it gladyr, instead of asik? man we look the wrong way when we get close dont we?
i love to watch the bulls play, anyone else?
o’b i havent had time to respond to big ray’s great start to canniblogging but i will say that these guys need their roles and need to buy into it or be gone. i will have something to say along those lines to respond to ray. last year was the year to trade josh as i specifically said at season’s end, along with a legit coach. i will be sitting by myself maybe when i respond as based on some contingencies i think things should happen; again they will not be probably in line with what ray said or others. my middle child graduated this weekend fro, uga so, i havent had time to look at what i am sure are great responses and look forward to it. again i am not going mainstream but looking to utilize or resources better. the confounding thing is what ray said first, the cba is most important right now.
yes, i thought the bulls would take the heat based on there depth and intensity on defense and boards. i am enjoying this seven pint lead now and think the heat will be unable to answer the bell for 7 rounds of this.
niremetal
May 15th, 2011
9:45 pm
O’Brien,
A retarded monkey with Alzheimer’s disease would have picked Durant with the #2 pick back in 2007, so I have a tough time crediting the Sonics’ front office staff with that pick
niremetal
May 15th, 2011
9:47 pm
Of course, Pete Babcock would have picked Morris Almond.
niremetal
May 15th, 2011
9:48 pm
Pete Babcok, on the other hand, would have picked Morris Almond.
niremetal
May 15th, 2011
9:50 pm
Ah. Just discovered something. Typing in the full name of Pete Babco_k results in the comment not posting. Seems that his name is not to be spoken around these parts. Fine by me
doc
May 15th, 2011
10:08 pm
yes!!!!!
go bulls!!!!