Atlanta Hawks: Redemption and a true milestone
It all seemed to come together at once.
The Hawks played the way they needed to nearly all game long, the guys who needed to step up did, and they even had some calls go their way (the jump ball after Rose was fouled on a long jumper attempt was bizarre). All of this, and the Hawks reached a true milestone. Two wins in the second round of the playoffs, you say? So much more than that, I say. The goal should never be to lose better, or to just take the smallest of baby steps. The goal is to put yourself into position to take leaps and bounds. Winning game 4 did just that for the Hawks. Not only have they done what they needed to do to win games against their favored opponent, the Hawks have put themselves into actual contention for a place that only the elite teams in a conference can go – the Conference Finals. Atlanta has shown that it can beat Chicago, and that this is no fluke. Is the series over? Of course not, and that goes both ways. Which team is headed to the Eastern Conference Finals? Many automatically assumed it would be the Bulls, and the Hawks just made it a question that every expert and pundit has to think about for a few seconds before giving an answer. Both teams look like they believe in themselves, and that was never a question for Chicago. But it was for Atlanta…and now that question is answered. They believe. What’s more, they are giving everybody else something to believe.
The Hawks are now competing for real. Milestone reached.
Making all the Right Moves
This really starts with coaching. Larry Drew did quite the job Sunday night, getting his guys to do what they needed to, and keeping their heads in the game. Drew’s decision to start Jason Collins paid dividends as Collins immediately added the physicality that Atlanta needed to start the game. Collins is one of those guys who never could claim the boxscore as his friend, as it can never tell the story of the impact he has on a game. Despite not claiming a single rebound, his presence was felt in his size and body weight down low, as well as his ability to get good positioning. If you don’t believe it, just as Noah how difficult it was to get rebounds with Collins in the way. Ask Rose how good those fouls felt. All that and Collins gave the Hawks a couple of confidence-inspiring inside baskets.
Even better was Drew’s decision to play Zaza Pachulia for 25 minutes or so. Pachulia responded the way he normally has when given good minutes – smart play, toughness, and very much needed rebounding. Fact is, Zaza kept the Hawks all but even in the rebounding category (Bulls 37, Hawks 36), something Atlanta had been struggling with.
Of course, much of this came at the expense of one Marvin Williams. But here’s the thing – Marvin has been largely ineffective, as he was in game 4. Yes, he did look like he got fouled a few times out there with no calls coming his way. On the flip side of the coin, there were times that even Rose didn’t get the call after charging to the hole. As such, it’s hard to argue the foul calls in his favor, and aside from a couple of nice blocks, he wasn’t getting much done (0-5 from the field, no rebounds). Bottom line, it wasn’t about what Marvin failed to do, it was about what the Hawks needed that he doesn’t provide – physicality. Larry Drew knew this, and he played guys accordingly.
Late Bloomer
This wasn’t just Josh Smith’s best game in the playoffs. It was his best game all season. The early jumpshot attempts had the home crowd groaning and cringing, and his insistence on running the fast break after the rebound probably made even his teammates want to pull their hair out. Fortunately for the Hawks, Smith managed to abandon the perimeter game and went work inside, to wondrous results. The post game comments made me think Smith still doesn’t recognize the vastly different results of his inside or outside play, but the majority of his play, particularly in the second half suggested otherwise (uhh….we hope). Smith’s hyperactivity around the glass (16 boards) and his passing (8 assists) were pivotal in this game, as was his scoring at the basket. Again, his decision to run the break seemed like one of folly, but then it became obvious – the Bulls lacked the speed to keep up with him for the most part, and even the fleet-footed Rose seemed unable or unwilling to try and pick Smith’s pocket.
We can only hope to see more such play from Josh Smith. Chicago doesn’t have an answer for him when he plays with passion, yet under control and in the areas where he can excel. Smith was MVP for a night. Now he has to be consistent for the series.
Back in the Game
Limited by foul trouble, it seemed Al Horford wouldn’t be able to get back on track, but he maintained an aggressive stance on offense and also was more decisive with his moves. While his 5 rebounds were nothing to write home about, his efficiency from the field (9 made shots out of 11 attempts) and heady play (4 assists) were absolutely on time. We knew that Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford would not be able to keep up the twin 20+ point per game performances up forever, and somebody would have to step up besides them. Last night, Horford did that, and the Hawks will be needing a similarly efficient offensive threat more often, to take this series.
Rock Steady
If there are two guys in this playoff series that are performing pretty consistently, it’s Joe Johnson and Jeff Teague. Unlikely combo? Perhaps, but you’re not getting many complaints right now.
Johnson was solid against Orlando, but he continues to prove himself to be the team’s best player against Chicago. The best guys step up their game in the playoffs and Johnson is doing just that in the 2nd round with 54% shooting from the field, including a hair under 67% from three point range for 21 points per game. Johnson struggled a bit against Chicago’s League-best defense but poured it on in game 4. Look for him to continue to attack quickly and keep on hurting the defense after seeing how well it’s worked so far.
If there any questions about Jeff Teague at this point, they should only surround his jumpshot. The lightning quick point guard has more than proven himself in the heat of battle in ways that nobody saw coming during the season (if you tell me you KNEW he’d do exactly this well in the playoffs, then I want you doing my financial investments). Shooting 52% from the field, Teague is also doing exceptionally well with the ball in his hands (3.8 assists to 1.2 turnovers per game, a 3-t0-1 ratio!), and finds himself as the team’s second leading scorer in the 2nd round of the playoffs. Missing Kirk Hinrich? With all due respect to the smart and tough veteran point guard (and we do miss him at times), his absence might have actually been the best thing that could have happened to the Hawks, in some ways.
Now it’s On!
It’s good that the Hawks know what to do now, they just have to keep doing it. It’s even okay if they think they’ve arrived, because they have. What’s important is that they know where they’ve arrived – at the heart of the battlefield, not the Promised Land. With the series tied at two games apiece and shifting back to Chicago, both teams are under pressure. The Bulls don’t want to fall down in front of their fans at home. Meanwhile, the Hawks have to prove that their Game 1 win was not a “surprise victory” against Chicago. This is when teams have to dig deep and the competition is fierce.
The Hawks travel into enemy territory on Tuesday, where there will be very few friendly faces in the crowd (if any). Can they take the Bull by the horns? Can they continue to play the way they have to see is the only way to win?
Big Ray, Hawks Fan Nest Blog
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143 comments Add your comment
Swingman912
May 9th, 2011
7:23 pm
Leggo
Swingman912
May 9th, 2011
7:25 pm
Was I first
Swingman912
May 9th, 2011
7:34 pm
My fellow bloggers, wat will Teague’s nickname be? Ironically, his initials are JET, and his speed reflects such, but aren’t there too many of those already? I’m goin wit JT 0!
Mr.Phil
May 9th, 2011
7:35 pm
win! win now arrggggggghhhhhh.
O'Brien
May 9th, 2011
7:40 pm
From the previous blog;
AJ, mykhalc,
Remember, most of Randolp’s struggles was when he was with the Portland Jail Blazers. Since he got the change of scenery to Memphis, he has improved, and become more consistent. Maybe a change of scenery (or a coach who commands more respect) will do Josh some good.
But I dont see Rick trading Josh. Rick has been very conservative, and I think he would not want to take the chance of trading Josh only to see him develop into an All-Star.
mykhalc
May 9th, 2011
7:53 pm
@O’B…and I think he would not want to take the chance of trading Josh only to see him develop into an All-Star.
yep…that is the prevailin’ fear when it comes to Josh. without a lot of thought into this at the moment, i think gettin’ rid of Marvin would satisfy me that the franchise is makin’ the NECESSARY changes to improve the team…take the next step. and i don’t think Jamal will be re-signed either. like others, i think Kirk should step into that role. not as prolific as Jamal, no doubt. but can he give this team 12-15pts per nite??? i think so. Kirk can create his own shot plus break the defense down…again not JC style but in his own way. but he can bring positive results IMHO.
and yeah i agree…i doubt they move Josh.
O'Brien
May 9th, 2011
8:17 pm
Big Ray,
The problem with these Hawks is just when you think they have turned the corner, they make a U-Turn.
I assume LD will start the big lineup tomorrow night. If we are even with the Bulls early (or have the lead), Hawks will play well (imo). But if Rose gets 2 quick fouls on Twin, and makes a couple shots early, Hawks could just as easily lose by 20.
I just hope all the players remember what worked well last night, and stick with it.
leo
May 9th, 2011
8:18 pm
I hope they are ready because we will all be watching and pulling for them to pull off a feet no one expected them to be in position to do. I believe in them if no one else does.
Go Hawks!!!
O'Brien
May 9th, 2011
8:21 pm
mykhalc,
Marvin has 3 years, $22.5 mil left on his his salary. Therefore, I think he is almost untradeable, since we dont have a draft pick to offer, and we would not want to take back a longer term contract.
I doubt the Hawks bring back Jamal for 2 reasons. We are already at $64 mil for next season, and I think some team out there will pay more than we will to make Jamal their starting SG.
Atlanta Hawks: Redemption and a true milestone – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) | MYSOUTHDIVA
May 9th, 2011
8:27 pm
[...] Read this article: Atlanta Hawks: Redemption and a true milestone – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]
O'Brien
May 9th, 2011
8:27 pm
From MC’s new blog;
Smoove hears what you are saying when he winds up for Js. More on that from Josh: “I’ve been a pretty good perimeter shooter this whole season. If people have been here all season they know I’ve done it all year. People who are here for the special times don’t understand.”.
What is he talking about? nire, you might need to send him his jumpers update for the season. he started off well, but he cooled off dramatically as the season went on.
This guy just does not get it (imo).
jlewis
May 9th, 2011
8:34 pm
Big Ray:
I think you are right on about JJ, plus, that guy has played some hella defense in the playoffs. People just forget how all around good that guy is, except for the other teams, that’s why he always commands the double team.
Astro Joe
May 9th, 2011
9:43 pm
OB, from the last blog. Man, I hopenot. There would be no shame if Smith became an All-Star, as long as the player acquired helps the hawksgo further than before. The goal should be advancing in the playoffs. Goodness knows that our 2 All Stars have not always been big in the post-season so some mid-year achievemnt really is meaningless in May/June.
My money is on Miami to win this OT game tonight.
Swingman912
May 9th, 2011
9:45 pm
Smoove is going to be Smoove, but even if he gives us a fraction of what he did in game 4, I’d be happy. Al’s jump shot will start to fall. As long as Joe and Jamal require a double, and they make the right pass out of the double, other players will get open looks. Teague will continue to get to the paint, and as long as we take good shots, we can beat this team!
doc
May 9th, 2011
9:52 pm
LD:
L.D. on another benefit of the Twin lineup: “Asking Josh to defend Noah at times, he’s much taller and much longer. It’s a tough assignment for him. Having him go against guy like Boozer who is real physical is also tough. Another physical body has been good for us. It frees up Al and Josh up to a certain extent.”
been saying this for weeks about the bulls bigs.glad he sees it and will make some effort to change the outcome around the basket. no way he can back track into the other line up. we were being destroyed underneath and down under why it took him so long to see it.
problem tomorrow is getting that kind of efficiency out of jj we saw sunday without him losing interest and still working it inside for scores.
celts may be done folks.
mykhalc
May 9th, 2011
9:57 pm
i hate the Celts…not that it matters LOL
doc
May 9th, 2011
10:13 pm
do you like the heat and queen more myk?
i dont.
Redneck Hawk
May 10th, 2011
12:03 am
The Miami-Boston series is a “Can They Both Lose?” kind of situation. If we can somehow cement our good play and beat the Bulls, it’s at least encouraging to know that anybody living in a city not named Miami will have our back!
Big Ray
May 10th, 2011
12:13 am
O’brien ,
The time for “developing into” is over for me at 7 years. Josh can earn his way to all-star, but we see him for what he is. The only thing that holds him back is his mental state, and it’s the only thing that can get him there as well.
If Sund (or Gearon) fears Josh becoming an all-star when moving elsewhere, then they don’t know much about basketball. Either that, or they should have thought about hiring a different coach. A totally different one.
Big Ray
May 10th, 2011
12:17 am
swingman912 ,
Actually that’s the problem in a nutshell. Smith does tend to give us a fraction of what he should be doing. If that fraction is 3/4 or higher, we’ll probably be alright. Once it gets lower than that, there tends to be more problems than this team can overcome with him on the floor.
The issue is that we should be able to survive that by doing something like subbing Marvin back in, so we don’t lose athletic ability and scoring potential. However, Marvin doesn’t give us much confidence of that, and we’re back to playing with Smith’s schizophrenic tendencies.
Man, I just wish he would get over the perimeter game. If all he took was 3 perimeter shots per game, I’d be cool with that. How can he NOT see the results of what he did last night, and how that’s what helps this team win, not his perimeter prowess (such that it is)???
Big Ray
May 10th, 2011
12:25 am
Jlewis ,
JJ has been pretty strong in the playoffs. He’s still this team’s best player. ‘Nuff said.
mykhalc ,
Like I said to O’Brien…management need not fear Josh becoming an all-star elsewhere. Where’s the logic in this thought process? If they’re worried about that, then they should have reasons for worrying, right? Ok, if that’s the case, then they should know what it takes for him to be an all-star here , right?
1) Is it scoring opportunity? I think not. Josh never complains about not having the ball enough, and Lord knows the man will do as he pleases with the basketball. So it can’t be scoring, right? For argument’s sake though, let’s say it is. If that’s the case, you have to make Josh the #1 offensive option. Now who wants to do that, eh?
2) If it’s coaching, then the ASG could have fixed this already. If Josh simply needs a different type of coach, then they should have hired somebody besides dear ol’ Uncle Larry. Once again, the problem is fixable. Right?
3) What else could it be? Does Josh play in the wrong kind of offense? If so, then once again…hire a different coach with a different approach. Come up with a different offensive scheme.
The issue of Josh becoming an all-star after being traded away is moot and unimportant. What’s important is whether or not the he can be an all-star here, and if he can’t, then what’s the sense in keeping him just for the sake of not letting him do it elsewhere? The truth is, Josh won’t be an all-star until he plays to his strengths. When he does that, this team is stronger than ever. When he doesn’t, it makes things tough for the team.
Somehow we survived his play against Orlando. And game 4 just showed that if he doesn’t play right against Chicago, we’ll likely lose. If he does, we could go to the ECF.
JSS
May 10th, 2011
1:29 am
“It’s ON!”
Gamer
May 10th, 2011
2:45 am
THE HAWKS FOCUSING ON WINNING GAME 5, GUARANTEES THE HAWKS A GAME 7(IF NECESSARY)!!!!
AS MUHAMMAD ALI WOULD SAY,,ROPER DOPE TIME!!!!
HAWKS ARE IN A GOOD SCENARIO GOING INTO CHICAGO….WITH A WIN IN THE WINDY CITY FOR GAME 5, THE HAWKS COULD CLOSE IT OUT AT HOME IN GAME 6…
WITH A LOSS IN GAME 5, THE HAWKS GOT GAME 6 AT HOME TO FORCE A GAME 7….BASICALLY THE HAWKS IS POSITIONED TO RIDE WAVES OF MOMENTUM FOR REMAINDER OF THIS SERIES…AS LONG AS THE PLAYERS DON’T LAY AN EGG BY HAVING MENTAL LAPSES OF WHAT GOT THEM TO THIS POINT…..
WHICH IS SMART PLAYS, HUSTLE PLAYS AND TRUSTING THEIR TEAM-MATES ABILITIES…WITH EACH PLAYER PERFORMING TO HIS ABILITIES THEN THERE IS NO REASON WHY THE HAWKS CAN’T MARCH INTO EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS!!!
Willie Coyote
May 10th, 2011
7:33 am
Josh, the people who watch you all year ARE the ones groaning when you wind up a jumper. The casual fans don’t even know the starting 5 much less who should and shouldn’t take jumpers.
People in this town WANT you to be our 3-man for years to come. Play inside, cut to the basket, fill the lanes, and work the boards and you will be considered one of the most dangerous players in the league. Just because you’re open for a jumper doesn’t automatically mean you can’t still drive in closer for a floater or an assist. Playing like that will make you better and it makes the team better.
Seriously, if this team can pick up a starting center, a shooter off the bench, and another key acquisition, what’s to say we can’t be the Eastern Conference version of the Mavericks?
Side Note: Troy Murphy is a free agent. I wonder if it’s possible to get him to back-up Al.
O'Brien
May 10th, 2011
7:46 am
Boston had 3 offensive rebounds last night in 53 minutes of play. 3. And in OT, Bosh had a key tip in. I wonder if Boston could have used Kendrick Perkins last night.
O'Brien
May 10th, 2011
8:00 am
Having watched OKC more in the playoffs, I question their coach and their PG a little more now. I don’t think Westbrook and the coaching staff is doing as good a job as they should getting Durrant more touches.
O'Brien
May 10th, 2011
8:23 am
Although I think Josh is a more talented PF than Al, I would be in favor of trading him if the right deal can be found. Can Rick find the right deal, though?
Is there a sign and trade out there? Is there an existing player we could trade for? I think it will be a very uneventful off season due to the impending lockout though.
Lacsho
May 10th, 2011
8:31 am
Big Ray, I knew all along Teague could do this. I’ve been screaming this from day one. Me and the Family really enjoyed the game Sunday. Phillips was off the chain, and the eye cand was priceless.
Peace,
Sho
vava74
May 10th, 2011
9:07 am
Let’s make a wager on the number of long jumpers Josh will launch tonight and the number of misses off those jumpers:
I’ll start: 8 but he will hit 5.
He is bound to break out of his slump and have one of those 2 games out of 10 in which his shot is good.
But my guess is that we will lose by double digits tonight.
In game 4 CHI did not bring their overalls and we did. I expect a much much much more hardworking CHI team tonight and, as SVG said, we tough when we get up but once we get down…
oldmike
May 10th, 2011
9:09 am
Don’t usually comment here. But love this blog!!! Worst part of Tegaue’s explosion as a dynamic option in the lineup is the cost it extracted. He should have been playing all year. Then we would still have JC2 around and the draft pick. Bibby could have been traded for a pair of used overalls. Have you watched his play in the Heat/Boston series. What is he doing on the floor anyway? Now is the time for the Hawks to shut up and deliver. If they know how to win then do it. Time to slip back is over and done. Grab game 5 by the throat and win ugly. Go HAWKS!!!
Lacsho
May 10th, 2011
9:26 am
Exactly Old Mike, Exactly
doc
May 10th, 2011
9:38 am
bibby couldnt even take a one armed rondo out early. sad. got out scored too.
old mike we would not acted as desperate if teague had been played is my contention. anyway, this organization does not value draft picks as they cost too much is my contention for the “promise” they might bring. they are expensive and we sold one last year and essentially gave one away this year to avoid the guaranteed contract that comes with them. still amazed we spent 500k to free up pape sy from france when we could have gotten another vet and vet pay and had the league pay half. that seems to be more the “style” of this organization.
the new collective bargain is going to change things and maybe make it more interesting to keep draft picks. we will see while we wait for nba basketball to gear up again. it may be a long wait so enjoy it while it is here. i am already starting to get some withdrawal as the teams narrow and less info is out there on the sport. soon games will not be on every night or just one. last monday i really sorta freaked when there wasnt any games on in the middle of the playoffs. heh heh
doc
May 10th, 2011
9:38 am
bibby couldnt even take a one armed rondo out early. sad. got out scored too.
old mike we would not acted as desperate if teague had been played is my contention. anyway, this organization does not value draft picks as they cost too much is my contention for the “promise” they might bring. they are expensive and we sold one last year and essentially gave one away this year to avoid the guaranteed contract that comes with them. still amazed we spent 500k to free up pape sy from france when we could have gotten another vet and vet pay and had the league pay half. that seems to be more the “style” of this organization.
the new collective bargain is going to change things and maybe make it more interesting to keep draft picks. we will see while we wait for nba basketball to gear up again. it may be a long wait so enjoy it while it is here. i am already starting to get some withdrawal as the teams narrow and less info is out there on the sport. soon games will not be on every night or just one. last monday i really sorta freaked when there wasnt any games on in the middle of the playoffs. heh heh
vava74
May 10th, 2011
9:41 am
the sad thing about this whole story (NBA) is that:
- the 3 stooges will win the title;
- and with them Mr. Used Overalls Bibby will win it as well… even if only whilst averaging 3ppg and shooting .226 from 3 point land…
Astro Joe
May 10th, 2011
10:14 am
Josh is “keeping it real”. Despite the criticism from every corner of the globe, he hasnot suggested that he is going to stop shooting those perimeter shots. He is at least speaking like a defiant child that simply refuses to concede a point.
Back to the All-Star thing, there are different types of ALl-Stars. I’m pretty sure that David West was an All-Star. Rashard Lewis was an All-Star. Kevin Willis was an All-Star. None of those guys compare to other All-Stars like Amare, Paul Pierce or ‘Nique… guys that you expect to see at each and every ASG (injuries excepted). It would be hard to see Josh ripping off that kind of consistent All-Star level performance given the number of talented and high-profile forwards in the league. If he were traded to the other conference, he would not likely be voted ahead of Durant and Blake Griffin. Could he squeeze a spot on the bench that would include Dirk, Gasol, Z-Bo, Aldridge and Kevin Love? In the East, we’re only talking about Melo, Amare, KG, Pierce, LeBron & Bosh. So my guess is that while Josh could be an All-Star (like David West), it seems far-fetched that he sees a run of 3-4 consecutive All-Star appearances.
O'Brien
May 10th, 2011
10:38 am
vava,
I think Josh will take 6 long jumpers, and 2 three pointers. He will be 0-2 from 3, and 2-6 on the others (imo).
AJ,
I don’t see Josh making it to the ASG for 2 or 3 years. By then, KG and Pierce will be on the steep downside and on the way out, whereas Josh will only be 28. But I don’t think we can afford to wait on him.
What adjustments will Thibs make tonight? And how will LD counter? Although I think LD comes up with a good plan prior to the game, I haven’t been as impressed with his adjustments during the game.
Therefore, I hope he has a plan in mind already for when Thibs and Rose counteracts our game 4 strategy.
oldmike
May 10th, 2011
10:41 am
If the 3 stooges win the title will they be excited? Will anyone be excited. What is the “wow factor” for them winning. I can see if the Mavs win there is a wow factor. The team was built piece by piece with trades and the like. I happen to think this may be their year. A much better story than the 3 stooges winning anything. By the way Celts must be ill from having given away Perkins and other pieces for the promise of a broken down Shaq contributing. He looks even worse than the Bibster. Somethign was missing from their game last night although it may be the dreaded “father time” catching up with them at crunch time!!!
Astro Joe
May 10th, 2011
11:07 am
At this point, Stern has to be cheering for his darling Thunder to make it to the Finals. Durant against Rose or Miami is about as good as he can get now. I think Stern would rather see Memphis in it than see Mark Cuban in front of a mic everytime he turns on the TV. Meanwhile, I heard speculation that the NBA owners are re-thinking their hard-line stance in light of the NFL owners taking some body blows in the past few weeks. Kind of interesting because the NFL owners aren’t losing a red penny while the same cannot be said in the NBA. If any set of owners needs to demand true labor reform, it should be Gearon and his peers.
Melvin
May 10th, 2011
11:30 am
I can understand folks criticizing Josh for his jumpers and lackadaisical play at times but what about Al Horford? Al has not performed at an All-Star level in these playoffs as well. If anything, I think the playoffs has exposed Al game. He’s not that great of a defender nor does he have any post moves. AL is very mechanical and I don’t see him developing “go-to” post moves (but I could be wrong). I think we all were excited about his hustling and warrior attitude his first 2-3 seasons in a Hawks uniform but outside of his mid-range shot, his game has seem to regress. His on and off court persona is better than Josh but I will not deem him as the cornerstone or untouchable on this team. Just like Josh, if the right deal comes along I would trade him as well.
bfred
May 10th, 2011
11:42 am
Stern will eat a bullet if it’s a Hawks-Mavs final.
At this point the only teams the NBA wants to see in are Miami or Chicago (Celts would have been okay but they’re cooked) and the OKC Durants. Stern has hung the league’s hat on marketing star power – what will he do if there are no superstars in the finals? Heaven forbid a couple of balanced teams make it.
vava74
May 10th, 2011
12:12 pm
OB,
“Although I think LD comes up with a good plan prior to the game, I haven’t been as impressed with his adjustments during the game.”
So true. So true.
LD has been horrible within games, IMO, giving away games 2 and 3 by not going with the hustle guys (Zaza, Wilkins and Collins) and when we needed to amp up our aggression levels.
Daddy Long Long
May 10th, 2011
12:50 pm
Swingman, I really like M-V-Teague after seeing someone with this on Sunday. I can rest knowing we FINALLY have a true point guard in the A-Town. Legggooo…lololol
Also, one thing I NEVER want to see again in Phlips Arena is a guy by the last name Wilkins missing a dunk! Get on him about that Uncle Nique!!
no justice
May 10th, 2011
12:55 pm
You guys are taking “flogging a dead horse” to another level. I’m beginning to think that there’re some jealousy going on here. Some of you must be thinking,” if I had that kind of talent it would be different” right? You’re probably thinking, why can’t it be me” right? WELL IT AIN’T YOU, IT’S JOSH SMITH so watch him, cheer for them tonight and go bed and maybe, just maybe in your dreams you will be lucky enough to become J Smoove for a fleeting moment. Not the loser that you wake up with every morning.
Blue
May 10th, 2011
1:02 pm
.
With the win and the Hawks spirited effort. With Josh’s unbelievably heady play and all-star caliber performance. With Jeff Teague’s continued dominant performance, we all FORGOT to discuss one of the BIGGEST moments in Game 4.
When JOE JOHNSON literally BROKE KEITH BOGAN’S ANKLES. That was a sick move that Joe put on that cat. I really didn’t think Joe had it in him to handle the rock like that. I actually felt bad for that kid Bogans.
Astro Joe
May 10th, 2011
1:04 pm
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2011/news/story?page=5-on-5-110510
O'Brien
May 10th, 2011
1:05 pm
vava,
The same adjustment he made on Rose for game 4 should have been made at halftime of game 3, when Rose had already scored 21 points. But LD seems like the guy who can’t adjust on the fly. Another adjustment would have been to start Twin in the second half of game 3. Why wait until game 4?
Melvin,
Al has been a big disappointment too. But I think one reason why folks get on Josh is because he has been doing this for 7 years. Also, with Josh, his issues seem to be mostly mental, and should be easily correctible.
There are some limitations to his game, but Al’s biggest issue mentally is his timidness (not lack of focus). As for his defense, Al did get 7 votes (including 3 for frst team) for All-NBA defense (more votes than Josh).
That being said, nobody on the Hawks should be untouchable.
Rod from College Park
May 10th, 2011
1:09 pm
Melvin,
My thoughts exactly on Horford. Who has had a better playoffs, Al or Josh? He’s not hitting the jumper because he is not playing center, and 4’s are able to get out past the free throw line and check him. He can’t hit that shot with a hand in his face, he can’t dribble drive, he is very mechanical, and has no post moves at all. His defense at the rim is vey bad. I have not seen him block any point guards drive to the rim in 2 seasons. He is good on the boards, but has brought nothing to the playoffs this year except rebounding. He did have a good game on Sunday, but Josh was the one who got him going with those excellent dimes.
Astro Joe
May 10th, 2011
1:10 pm
no justice, I don’t want to be Josh Smith. I don’t want to walk to the copier machine and have all of my co-workers yell “nooooo”. I’m fine being me, someone who doesn’t intentionally do wrong in a misguided attempt to prove others wrong.
Rod from College Park
May 10th, 2011
1:12 pm
Let’s all remember Al is the All Star, not Josh.
no justice
May 10th, 2011
1:27 pm
Do you agree you are “flogging a dead horse”? After repeating a similar idea one thosand time is a bit over done, yes?
niremetal
May 10th, 2011
1:28 pm
Big co-sign to Ray’s 12:25.
no justice
May 10th, 2011
1:29 pm
On a previous blog someone criticized his driving on I-285. flogging,flogging flogging.
Astro Joe
May 10th, 2011
1:36 pm
OB nailed the difference. Horford deserves criticism for not doing more. Smith deserves criticism for trying to do too much. That seems to be a fairly easy and obvious distinction. Who is trying to stop Al from making his jumpers or posting up? Several professional basketball players on a top defensive team. Who is stopping Josh from shooting perimeter shots?
Blaming player A for missing his shots is completely different than asking player B to stop taking shots. One requires the cooperation of the opponent while the other is self-inflicted stubbing of the toes.
no justice, it remains an issue because Josh continues to suggest that he will do what most consider a practice that is hurting the team.
But yes, I’ve been riding Al since the Magic series when he allowed the likes of Bass and Anderson to throw him off of his game. So while I agree that he has been MIA for most of this post-season, I also fully recognize the difference in the criticism.
doc
May 10th, 2011
2:25 pm
a couple of observations on the celts agem last night:
the celts are a very tired team.
at the end of the game paul pierce did his very worst imitation of iso joe imitation. geez i never thought he would get going and he didnt. it was a very sorry last shot. i still dont undertsand it when they hold the ball so long even their teammates cant get a rebound to cover a miss or even a tip in. sorry job there and then to complain about a no call. a very enabled star on that one. also see number one.
the great boston celtic crowd didn show up did they. i had to augh when the announcer daid i the third quarter of a 2 point game the celts were tryomg to get the crowd back into it. sorry as bad as the atl crowds are we dont need that in a playoff game. cudos this time around to us. you embarassed yourself celt fans last night as you sat on your hands the whole game.
it is no knock on you big ray. it is not why i am saying it. did anyone else think of josh smith when big baby jacked up a 14 footer from the side in the waning mintues of a very closely contested game? man, i was begging him to rise up and throw it down one of the heat faces that challenged him. instead we get “thunderbolt” ala j sm**ve. yup stil refuse to type it and rebuke myself for even thinking it to give any credence to the name.
sad to say it the celts are toast and they are the team needing some remakes, not the lakers who need tweaks, uh, like superman.
selah
heh heh
go hawks!
Rod from College Park
May 10th, 2011
2:54 pm
“OB nailed the difference. Horford deserves criticism for not doing more. Smith deserves criticism for trying to do too much. That seems to be a fairly easy and obvious distinction. Who is trying to stop Al from making his jumpers or posting up? Several professional basketball players on a top defensive team. Who is stopping Josh from shooting perimeter shots?
Blaming player A for missing his shots is completely different than asking player B to stop taking shots. One requires the cooperation of the opponent while the other is self-inflicted stubbing of the toes.”
I agree and disagree. A lot of the Hawks and Josh Smith shot selection problems stem from guys like Horford and Marvin passing up good shots. We would all much rather see Marvin or Horford shoot the wide open 15 footer, but if they continue to pass the ball like a hot potato to Josh standing behind the 3 point line we all know that Josh has no problem taking the shot. Josh deserves blame for continuing to shoot those long jumpers, but guys like Horford and Marvin deserve just as much blame for passing up good shots.
vava74
May 10th, 2011
2:54 pm
Diaper Al has been a disappointment.
Josh has been highly frustrating, as usual.
But Josh has contributed more to our playoff success than Al.
BBIB
May 10th, 2011
2:54 pm
This is our best chance in team history of not only making the Eastern Conference Finals but going all the way considering any team that will come out the West is very beatable
And considering how this is the first time this Heat team has played together, they won’t be unbeatable either.
We cannot blow the opportunity of AT LEAST getting to the ECF.
And we absolutely can do just that if Josh Smith plays half as focused as he did last game, if Teague somehow stays mostly mistake free, and Jamal Crawford or Horford steps up
Melvin
May 10th, 2011
3:33 pm
The Wizards reveil new uniforms and look who’s help modeling them….LOL
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AiR_mbNMGd1aaDLo9yAOCGu8vLYF?slug=ap-wizards-colors
O'Brien
May 10th, 2011
3:37 pm
doc,
In Pierce’s defense, Doc Rivers said they didnt execute the play that was called. I think KG or Ray were supposed to set a screen for Paul, but they ended up bumping each other, and by then it was too late for Paul to wait on them.
Rod,
I agree that Al and Marvin (and even JJ) pass up shots they shouldn’t, and pass the ball to Josh sometimes when they shouldn’t. And if Josh is wide open, he will shoot. However, even if they pass it to Josh, if there is more than 10 seconds left on the clock, he does not need to shoot, regardless of how open he is. And remember, these same players are telling him to play his game (which implies not to shoot the jumper).
And one issue with Josh, is we are still not sure how coachable he is (7 years in the league). Al has his limitations, but we know he is very coachable.
That being said, its not all on Josh. The entire team is up and down, but hopefully they will play like they did in game 1. We need Teague to show up again, and JJ and Jamal will need help from the bigs (Al, Josh, ZaZa and Twin).
Rod from College Park
May 10th, 2011
3:54 pm
“Diaper Al has been a disappointment.
Josh has been highly frustrating, as usual.
But Josh has contributed more to our playoff success than Al.”
We finally agree on something.
Melvin
May 10th, 2011
3:58 pm
Josh says he is focused. I got a good laugh from the folks criticizing on him jumpers. I have to give credit to both parties, those who were not afraid to tell him about it and Josh for responding to the criticism.
http://www.jsmoove.net/?p=703
Astro Joe
May 10th, 2011
4:02 pm
Rod, that is the case sometimes. And sometime Josh shoots a 20 footer with 18 seconds left on the shot clock. Josh goes blameless when he gets the ball with <5 on the shot clock (although if he stands closer to the painted area, his man would be less inclined to double team theplayer with the ball), but the old excuse that he only shoots to bail out his team hasn't been valid most of the 2010-11 season (and postseason). Come on, you read those stories about him looking at LD to validate if he took a good/bad shot… he wasn't doing that when he was forced to heave the ball at the shot-clock buzzer.
Rod from College Park
May 10th, 2011
4:02 pm
“However, even if they pass it to Josh, if there is more than 10 seconds left on the clock, he does not need to shoot, regardless of how open he is. And remember, these same players are telling him to play his game (which implies not to shoot the jumper).
And one issue with Josh, is we are still not sure how coachable he is (7 years in the league). Al has his limitations, but we know he is very coachable.”
Statements like that I don’t necessarily agree with. Josh did not shoot but 7 3’s last year which is what Woodson, asked him. LD never told him not to shoot jumpers or 3’s this year. He has been shooting the same shots he is shooting in the playoffs, all year long, he just is not making them now. LD has in fact said many times that as long as the shot is within the flow of the offense, it’s a good shot. If Josh passes the ball with the shot clock over 10 to Marvin or Horford, and then they pass the ball agian like a hot potato, the what kind of shot we will end up with?
niremetal
May 10th, 2011
4:43 pm
Regardless of whether Josh gets the ball with 10 seconds on the clock or two, why is he standing still on the perimeter instead of cutting to the basket as the clock winds down? It’s not as if some supernatural force is possessing the painted area, forcing Smoove to fade to the perimeter on every damned possession.
Josh is getting the ball on the perimeter because he is deciding to go to the perimeter. LD said point blank after game 3 that he calls plays where Josh is in the post but “somehow” he ends up out on the perimeter. That means it’s not an offense problem. If the play call was for him to go to the post and Josh ends up on the perimeter anyway, that means it was Josh who chose to go there.
Why do teammates pass him the ball there? Because passing Josh the ball on the perimeter is the lesser of five evils. Josh taking an open 20 footer is better than Joe taking a double-contested fadeaway from 24 feet or Al throwing up a contested off-balance shot from 18 feet. And it’s better than trying to force a pass to a teammate whose defender has cut off the passing lane. The teammates are responsible for passing Josh the ball. But they are not responsible for the fact that Josh is 20 feet from the basket instead of cutting to the basket when he gets the ball.
Is LD responsible for not benching Josh more in order to hold him to account for doing this? Yes, and that’s my only concession that it’s not 100% Smoove’s fault on this. LD should have been holding Josh to account all season. The problem is that now it’s the playoffs and it’s no time to start benching Smoove just to make a point. At this stage, we can only afford to bench him when having him on the floor hurts the team more than having him off the floor would. If he’s still defending and rebounding like he was in game 4, then it’s worth it to keep him out there even if it means watching him loaf around the perimeter calling for the ball instead of cutting to the basket.
niremetal
May 10th, 2011
4:45 pm
One more thing: I thought Thibs’ praise of Marvin for being good at cutting to the basket from the weakside was a backhand slap at Josh, who most certainly does NOT do that. Thibodeau has been leaving Josh wide open out on the perimeter when he doesn’t have the ball, giving Josh an easy path to cut to the basket and catch the ball in the paint if he so desired. That’s because he knows Josh will rarely if ever cut to the basket. He’ll just plant his ass on the perimeter and wait for a bailout pass there so he can launch another of his beloved long jumpers, instead of cutting to the basket and making himself an actual threat off the ball. If Josh just made that one small adjustment, it’s amazing how much better off would be. But it’s been 7 years and he has done that less and less and less as time has gone on. That’s regression, not development.
Rod from College Park
May 10th, 2011
5:14 pm
“Josh is getting the ball on the perimeter because he is deciding to go to the perimeter. LD said point blank after game 3 that he calls plays where Josh is in the post but “somehow” he ends up out on the perimeter. That means it’s not an offense problem. If the play call was for him to go to the post and Josh ends up on the perimeter anyway, that means it was Josh who chose to go there.”
I totally agree that he should be cutting, but we have been saying that all year, and neither Josh, Marvin or Al have cut to the rim hard during the season. They have all camped out at the free throw line (Horford) or behind the 3 point line all season long. No way possible LD can say that he has been telling those guys to cut to the goal, and they have not been doing it all season. Sounds like another of LD’s false statements. He probably told Josh to start cutting after he heard Hubie Brown or some other coach or player say that during the playoffs. Hubie also asked why Josh is even on the weakside of the floor to even receive that pass.
Rod from College Park
May 10th, 2011
5:19 pm
“I thought Thibs’ praise of Marvin for being good at cutting to the basket from the weakside was a backhand slap at Josh, who most certainly does NOT do that.”
Thibs praise of Marvin was a simple mindgame to get LD to leave him in the game. Stevie Wonder could see that. Marvin cutting to the basket rarely happens, and when he does he either falls, gets his shot blocked or throws up an off balance air ball. Thibs knows that the Hawks are a much weaker team with Marvin on the floor.
niremetal
May 10th, 2011
8:44 pm
Hawks down 11 after 1, but honestly it’s so far been a function of the Bulls just not missing from the field. Gave up a couple too many ORebs in the first few minutes, but that was the only really “correctable” thing. Just gotta hope the team keeps its head and that the Bulls cool off.
niremetal
May 10th, 2011
8:49 pm
And btw Rod, you are the only – and I mean only – person that thinks Thibs’ was playing a Jedi mind trick on LD through the media.
doc
May 10th, 2011
10:00 pm
not sure but i think there is the second cheap shot from boozer. that is what he is having to resort to against smith and the hawks.
doc
May 10th, 2011
10:13 pm
i think josh ought to stomp on boozer’s bad toe about each time down the court.
O'Brien
May 10th, 2011
10:14 pm
Can someone tell me how Jeff could not get PT behind Bibby? Could Jeff have really been that bad in practice?
Hawks down 1 going into the 4th, and all the pressure is on the Bulls. Hawks just need to play smart in the 4th.
Astro Joe
May 10th, 2011
10:17 pm
Hawks should win this, Bulls had their chance, if Hawks play average in this quarter, they will win.
Astro Joe
May 10th, 2011
10:20 pm
OK, well, Josh can;t direct traffic that leads to a bad shot by Joe and Jamal needs to go have a seat on the bench… and then we should win.
Astro Joe
May 10th, 2011
10:23 pm
This team has no idea how to get open for a teammate being doubled. N-o i-d-e-a.
O'Brien
May 10th, 2011
10:37 pm
AJ,
They do it all the time. JJ has the ball, nobody gets open to give him an easy pass. And he pounds and pounds and gets in trouble.
Hawks had this game, but the first 4 or 5 possessions in the 4th killed us.
niremetal
May 10th, 2011
10:39 pm
Yup, O’B. A few possessions is all it takes, and the Hawks wasted several tonight, including a few key ones early in the 4th.
The refs were once again, however, calling touch fouls for Rose while letting Bulls get away with mugging Teague, Craw, and JJ without a whistle. That didn’t help.
O'Brien
May 10th, 2011
10:53 pm
Refs compensated Rose very nicely for the missed call in game 4 when he might have been fouled by Crawford. And Teague got no respect from the refs.
JJ and Jamal were a combined 7-24, including 1-9 on 3’s. We can’t win with those numbers either.
niremetal
May 10th, 2011
11:07 pm
O’B,
JJ’s 6 for 15 was pretty good considering that he was being shoved by Bogans and (especially) Deng all night without a foul. He only had a couple of bad ISOs. Sadly, 2 of those ISOs came at critical junctures in the game, and they were ill-advised because he didn’t have a mismatch and just ended up dribbling around for a few hours.
Big Ray
May 10th, 2011
11:31 pm
My vote for funniest post all day:
You guys are taking “flogging a dead horse” to another level. I’m beginning to think that there’re some jealousy going on here. Some of you must be thinking,” if I had that kind of talent it would be different” right? You’re probably thinking, why can’t it be me” right? WELL IT AIN’T YOU, IT’S JOSH SMITH so watch him, cheer for them tonight and go bed and maybe, just maybe in your dreams you will be lucky enough to become J Smoove for a fleeting moment. Not the loser that you wake up with every morning.
Why I think it’s the funniest post:
1) I don’t know what’s more humorous – telling other people who criticize a player that they are miserable losers because they aren’t that player, or not realizing that making such a general statement also makes the accusing person a loser as well (unless you’re going to tell me that YOU are Josh Smith, and therefore NOT a loser).
2) So if Larry Drew criticizes Josh Smith’s shot selection, is he a loser too?
3) Charles Barkley and Kenny Smith criticized Josh’s play on national television . I guess they are losers as well, right? They wish they were Josh Smith when they wake up. Nahhh…I think Kenny would rather keep his NBA Championship rings, and Barkley would rather keep his multiple all-star appearances. Neither of which Josh Smith has.
4) Criticizing Josh’s perimeter shot selection IS flogging a dead horse. Unfortunately the horse is a zombie that just won’t die. And two NBA coaches have tried to slay it to no avail. But it’s much easier to blame loser bloggers for the problem instead.
Blogs are great, blogs are fun, and this is why….
Big Ray
May 10th, 2011
11:43 pm
I struggle to understand where this whole Josh vs. Al thing is coming from. Why is there a comparison between the two guys as far as playoff performance goes?
I think Astro Joe said it best when he said that he understands and makes the distinction between the criticisms of both players. Two totally different situations, two totally different reasons for criticism.
More on that in a minute, but AJ nearly covered it completely.
Big Ray
May 11th, 2011
12:15 am
A few things I’m hearing are interesting.
Josh is having a better playoffs than Al. All Al has brought to the playoff is rebounding. His defense is terrible at the rim
Really?
Josh – 14.7 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 39.4% shooting, 3.3 apg, 2 bpg.
Al – 11.7 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 43.9% shooting, 3.8 apg, 1 bpg.
Yes, I can see the gargantuan differences in the numbers.
We’ve known for how long that Smith is a better shot-blocker and defender at the rim? What’s the point? Are the Bulls killing us at the rim? I’d say Derrick Rose is, and I’d also say that Smith hasn’t come close to stopping him, so what’s the point? There isn’t one. And Boozer’s best game against us came from him hitting outside shots, not scoring at the rim. Huh. How about that…
As for who has had the better playoff performance, I’ll say this – both guys have had some solid games and some subpar games.
Josh has had two games that I’d call good games. Game 5 against Orlando, and game 4 against Chicago.
Horford has had one, and that was game 4 against Chicago.
Al is the all-star, Josh isn’t.
That comment cuts both ways. On the one hand, I certainly have been more disappointed in Al myself than I have in Josh. Why? Not because of performances. Because of expectations. I expect Al the all-star to do better because he IS an all-star. I hope Josh does better. What’s the difference between hope and expectation? You become an all-star because you prove your ability to be consistently good. So, there are reasonable expectations which are based on a proven product.
I hope Josh does better, I don’t expect him to. Why? Because he hasn’t proven that he can be better on a consistent basis. Sorry, but there’s nothing to prove otherwise.
So yes, Horford is a bigger disappointment. But here’s a bit of a caveat, like it or not – if you think opposing teams don’t pay more attention to all-star players that can hurt them, you’re crazy.
Game plan against Horford – Make him very uncomfortable in the post. If you can’t use strength and size, then use length and constantly harass his vision and his hands, because he can pass the ball. Don’t leave him open from 15-18 feet either, he can hit that shot and will hit it consistently.
Game plan against Josh – If he’s close to the basket, put a body on him and hound his dribble if you have anybody free to do so. Let him fade out to the perimeter. Encourage him to do so by laying off of him. He will shoot the ball from there, and that’s the weakest part of his game. Plus, you won’t have to worry about him outleaping you for offensive rebounds when he’s that far from the basket.
Big Ray
May 11th, 2011
12:19 am
The point here is that in a series where we need good games from both guys, we’re not getting them. We don’t get a good game from one guy because he isn’t doing all he can do to help. We don’t get a good game from the other guy because he won’t do what he should do.
And we’re relying still on our two shooting guards to get the job done. One couldn’t get the job done last night (Crawford). As a result, we lose. Not much more complicated than that.
Big Ray
May 11th, 2011
12:25 am
Rod ,
So it’s Marvin and Al’s fault that Josh takes jumpers (and misses them)? I can see if that’s the case when the shot clock is winding down, but that is not even remotely the case in most situations.
I’d have put more stock in “The Devil made me do it” than that.
And I have to say that Niremetal nailed it: Josh is standing around on the perimeter, so how are they going to pass it to him elsewhere? I don’t see him posting up nearly enough, and that’s the real problem. Dude destroys people when he posts up. Should they ignore him when he’s on the perimeter and just take the shots themselves? I fail to see how that has anything to do with his decision-making. Unless of course you’re saying that he just can’t help himself. If that’s the case, then we have an even bigger problem.
Have to say that Josh, Al and Marvin all have an issue cutting to the basket, especially of late.
I don’t know whether to say that’s coaching or players being unfocused.
Big Ray
May 11th, 2011
12:28 am
As for Marvin, let me just nip that in the bud: There’s no point in bothering with talking about him. Marvin is Marvin, and LD sees that. It’s why Collins is in the game and Marvin is not getting much PT. Hawks need physicality against the Bulls and Marvin isn’t providing enough of anything at all to justify not making that change.
We’re not losing because of Marvin. He’s not even a factor right now, sad to say.
We are losing because we are perimeter oriented and our bigs still aren’t stepping up to the plate with enough consistent firepower to balance that.
O'Brien
May 11th, 2011
12:43 am
This was a winnable game, and we let it slip away. 15 points scored in the 4th reminds of the numerous droughts we had last season and this season. We also scored 15 points in the 4th quarter of game 3.
And its frustrating, because we were playing so well after the first quarter, only to come out and go ISO the first 2-3 possessions in the 4th.
We could have used Hinrich big time in this game. Teague has played over 40 minutes all 5 games, and I dont know how long he can keep it up. Also, Hinrich would have been a good alternative to jamal, who ended up playing 27 minutes, going 1-9 (although he did have 4 assists).
We still need help in the front court though, so I hope Rick (or the new GM) addresses it this offseason. Guys like Josh Powell and Joe Smith are not the answer.
Big Ray
May 11th, 2011
12:58 am
One quick point on Jeff Teague:
For those of you who KNEW he would perform this well in the playoffs, I congratulate you. I can’t make that claim.
I thought Teague had talent, but there were many games this season where he was not nearly as aggressive, much less as effective as he’s been in this playoff series. He did not have the same confidence. The player we see right now – there were flashes of him in the regular season, but there was NOT a prevailing outline that this is who/what he would be.
I wanted him to get more playing time, and to earn the starting job. You can’t tell me he was playing this well back in the beginning of the season, because he just wasnt. There were games where he came in aggressive on both offense and defense. Then there were games where he would only come in aggressive on defense. He got his shot blocked. A LOT. He didn’t toast teams with his speed as often as he should have. He passed the ball off as soon as he got up the court and didn’t get it back after that. He passed the ball off so much that Jamal never gave it a second thought about shooting or making a play.
I thought Teague really picked it up later in the season, but that was still no guarantee that he’d be as solid in the playoffs, which is a different atmosphere. I figured the talent was there, I’d seen it before. But I didn’t know when he’d make that breathrough, where he could get into a game and immediately have an impact.
Well, it’s here now and it’s great to see. I’d say he’s earned the starting job at this point. But I can’t say I knew it all along, and I can’t say he should have been starting when Bibby was here earlier this season.
At that time , he did NOT look like the player he is NOW. We can chalk that up to whatever. What I do know is that Teague has earned his spot at this point, if you ask me, and I can’t see much reason in sending him packing back to the bench come next regular season. All he need do is work on his jumpshot.
Big Ray
May 11th, 2011
1:00 am
O’brien ,
Yep, exactly. That’s what I was thinking when I said we still missed Kirk Hinrich, though some want to say he’s not needed now, in light of Teague’s emergence. You can never have too many players that are smart, tough, willing defenders, and can hit shots. Especially on this team.
‘Nuff said on the frontcourt depth…
niremetal
May 11th, 2011
2:30 am
I don’t think our frontcourt depth has been a problem in the playoffs. Collins and Zaza have actually both performed well above their paygrade. The way they’ve been playing the past 3 weeks, they would be in the rotation on literally every other playoff team with the exception of the Celtics.
The problem with the frontcourt has been Josh and Al, who have generally been non-factors or negative factors in most games so far in the playoffs, particularly on offense and on the glass. Their decent-looking rebounding stats are fool’s gold. One need only see the OReb stats for Noah, Gibson, Boozer, and Asik this series to see they haven’t been doing their job by making sure their man doesn’t get the board. One thing that the stats didn’t reflect in the first round was the number of times Collins, Zaza, and (perhaps surprisingly) Etan boxed out Dwight, thereby allowing a teammate to collect the rebound. Josh and Al aren’t doing the same thing – especially Josh, who you basically never see box a guy out except on free throws. In all other circumstances, he just jumps at the ball as it comes off the rim, which is only a successful strategy if the ball ends up bouncing right at you.
In any case, I think that what’s been exposed during the postseason is not our frontcourt depth, but how inconsistent our frontcourt starters are when it counts. If you told me at the beginning of the playoffs that THAT would be our biggest concern rather than depth or backcourt issues, I’d have laughed. But having actually watched the 11 games, it’s pretty clear. Our biggest issue has been that Josh and Al weren’t ready to step up and be the co-stars we need.
niremetal
May 11th, 2011
2:36 am
And co-sign Ray’s 12:58. You write some good stuff after midnight, man
Big Ray
May 11th, 2011
3:14 am
Niremetal ,
Excellent point. We suffer from our starting frontcourt. I didn’t see that one coming either, and I maintain my stance that my disappointment is in Al who should be doing better. I have a theory on that, though. Two things:
1) Al has had a mental shift this whole past season, and we’re still not sure what brought that on. We can speculate on that all we want (and we will), but it’s clear that “lack of ability” isn’t the issue. Mentally, he has gone a different direction than we saw from him in the bulk of his first three years.
2) I think it’s harder to remain an all-star than it is to become one.
There are a lot of one (or even two) year wonders, so to speak. Was not Jamal Maggloire an all-star? Peja Stojakovich (spelling)? Jameer Nelson? Mo Williams?
Two year guys have a better argument about legitimacy, but the staying power is still the question. See Glenn Robinson, Brad Miller, Rashard Lewis, Caron Butler, and Antawn Jamison to name a few.
I’m not comparing Horford to any of these guys. For one, we could argue all day and night about why each guy made the ASG team over whom, and what the competition was like at the time.
The point is, it’s harder to maintain that status or level of performance once other teams and their coaches see the proof of your ability. Teams start to alter their schemes towards not letting you play at an all-star level. Al has to learn, IS learning how hard it is, especially in the playoffs. Where some people see exposure, I see a learning curve. You can’t learn without exposure and without losing. You don’t learn much from winning other than to think that maybe you’re invincible.
I think that’s Al’s test right now. However, I think he’d be passing the test right now if it wasn’t for the mental shift at the beginning of the season. It’s that which disturbs me right now. The good news is that I don’t think it will keep him from being a good player, or a consistent player, or a coachable player. He is all three and will continue to be. He does have to get past his current mental state, and I think it’s totally doable. More on that later.
And thanks for the kudos…
gail adams
May 11th, 2011
6:22 am
Al Horford has played very bad in this whole series. What is wrong with him?
vava74
May 11th, 2011
7:21 am
Couldn’t watch the game last night. I had early morning meetings and tip off at 1AM makes it impossible for me. Will watch now.
As expected, Thibs made another adjustment: he shafted Korver and replaced him with an hustler (Brewer) who came up big in the 4th.
He did the same with Boozer going with Gibson in the 4th.
And we?…
Looking at the game flow, I have to query the following:
How can Gibson go 5-5FG 1-1FT and get 2 rebounds (1off) and 1 block in the 4th quarter???
And Brewer get 5 rebounds? Who was sleeping on him (not hustling)?
And, again, we got evidence that LD has trouble identifying that when Jamal is giving us nothing on offense he should not be on the floor.
Heck, we would be better off by planting Collins ass (or Pachulia’s since he had a terrific 2nd quarter) in the paint instead of having him, even if that would seem to diminish our offensive out put.
Or, my preferred Brewer counter move: give minutes to Wilkins…
Big Ray
May 11th, 2011
7:51 am
Vava,
I understand your thinking in regard to Jamal struggling badly in this game, but I don’t see many options for him with Kirk Hinrich out. Our problem was more offensive than it was defensive. Yeah, we gave up 26 points in the 4th quarter, but we only scored 15 of our own.
As you pointed out, we gave up 11 points to Taj Gibson, all in the 4th quarter. But what did that have to do with Jamal? Watch the game and then tell me who was guarding Taj. Tell me if you think that Collins or Pachulia would have changed that for certain. Then tell me how diminishing our offensive output for the sake of upping our siz would have helped.
Better defense? Yeah, we’re not going to outscore the Bulls 15 to 14 in the 4th quarter. Not with a guy like Derrick Rose on the floor. We needed more offense. I can see your point of trying to play Damien Wilkins instead of Jamal, but tell me this – when the Bulls are stopping your highest and best scorers from even getting OPEN LOOKS, just what is your end of the bench swingman going to be able to do that Joe Johnson can’t?
I don’t think LD had much choice. He had to go with Jamal, a streak shooter who has done a LOT for our team in the playoffs this year, whether it galls you to admit it or not.
This is why Hinrich’s absence hurts. But even moreso, this is why the play of Al and Josh hurts even more.
O'Brien
May 11th, 2011
8:17 am
Big Ray,
I’m with vava on this one. LD left Jamal in for too long in the 4th, when he had been struggling all night, and he took ZaZa out, who played well early on. If Jamal is struggling on offense (and we know what his defense is), he should not have gotten the minutes he did in the 4th at the expense of ZaZa. At least ZaZa might have been able to help Diaper-Al out in the paint.
As for Teague, we would see flashes during the regular season, but the consistency was not there. So far, he has been our most consistent player against the Bulls. 41 mpg, 56% from the field, 17 pts, 4 assists, 3 rebs, and 1 turnover. Incredible.
I would love to see the Hawks make it to the ECF to see Teague matched up with Bibby. I think he has earned the starting spot, but would you be surprised if Kirk is automatically inserted as the starter next season?
Nire,
I agree that Josh and Al have not played well enough. However, we rely almost exclusively on them. Thibs inserted Asik and Gibson late third quarter, and they played so well that the starting Center (Noah) and the starting PF (Boozer) received no minutes in the 4th. It would be nice if we had options for those games when Josh and Al are not getting it done.
vava74
May 11th, 2011
9:09 am
Ray,
Fair enough. I will watch the game and revert back… but Brewer got 5 rebounds, including 2 offensive.
I would assume that Jamal was supposed to be on him.
Also, when a guy is not being effective, bringing him to the bench for a few minutes to talk about what he should do to contribute could be vital to get him back into a groove.
vava74
May 11th, 2011
9:20 am
I simply don’t believe in leaving a guy on the floor and hope that things will improve.
As for your assertion that our problem was on offense and not on defense, your experience as a Hawks fan should tell you that having your best offensive players on the floor NEVER stopped us from scoring 18 points or less in the 4th quarter for literally DOZENS of times.
ALSO:
Wilkins on the floor, IMO, gives us a lot more chances to collect rebounds and gets stops and with those rebounds and those stops WE COULD TAKE ADVANTAGE of Teague’s speed and get fast break buckets.
Stops often lead to points, so I contend that having defensive players on the floor rather than a slumping Jamal (and I am not saying keeping Jamal out for the whole 4th) translates into less points.
Our own Hawks’ fans experience tells us the opposite.
Zaza collects offensive boards, keeping offensive possessions alive.
On D, he throws elbows and, IMO, would be perfectly able to keep Gibson at least little bit less comfortable.
Astro Joe
May 11th, 2011
10:11 am
I’m not overly concerned about last night’s game. Sure, some of the offensive execution was poor in the 4th quarter but mostly I think they ran out of gas while Chicago was fueled by the rested and energetic Gibson and Asik. BTW, another plug for college seniors… Taj Gibson walked onto the court as a contributor immediately after being drafted BEHIND Teague. I still believe that if you draft an upperclassmen with a specific skill set that your team needs, that you can get a quality rotational player later in the first round. You just have to avoid drafted for potential and draft for specific production (like rebounding, perimeter defense, shot-blocking, etc.). I fully admit that I was thinking last night “I wonder if we had used #31 on Jarvis Varnado, if he could have brought that same type of energetic defensive presence to an important quarter for us”.
So I think the moral of the story from last night is don’t allow yourself to get down by double-digits, give LD a chance to use the bench a little longer by staying within reach, and then play a better rested group of players in the 4th quarter. Our team is already prone to mental lapses, adding fatigue only makes things that much worse. The deeper team won a game of attrition last night.
Hawks win fairly easily tomorrow night. Game 7 will be a slugfest!
niremetal
May 11th, 2011
10:20 am
O’B,
We did have options. Zaza was playing well last night. Why LD glued him to the bench during basically the entire 4th quarter is beyond me.
kwooden
May 11th, 2011
10:30 am
Nire, LD is always hoping that Jamal gets it going!
kwooden
May 11th, 2011
10:34 am
To that point Jamal needs to work harder to get open and attack the weak double teams from Chicago. Jamal needs to force Chicago to fully double team him and then pass the ball out. That way some is actually open. Jamal is giving up the ball before the double team actually comes, which gives the 2nd defender time to recover. Chicago plays very good defensive, so you have to work very quickly against them. JJ needs to do the same thing. If we do that enough, Chicago will get very fustrated with their double teams and begin just fouling a lot.
GO HAWKS!!
doc
May 11th, 2011
10:45 am
aj is gibson a second year or rookie? i thought they said he was drsted last year then after jordan from usc.
Astro Joe
May 11th, 2011
10:47 am
Big Ray, regarding your 12:58 post, that almost sounds like some trees were falling in the forest.
Jamal has resorted to a whole lot of complaining inthis series, more than I’ve seen him do in 2 years. He almost expects the refs to “bail him out” as opposed to shooting with the deadly intent that he usually has. Both Jamal and Al have sometimes looked, I hate to say it, scared in the moment.
Astro Joe
May 11th, 2011
10:48 am
doc, second year… same draft as Teague. Just saying that he performed solidly last season too… before they got Boozer. He entered the league with more than a little clue on how to contribute to the game.
vava74
May 11th, 2011
10:58 am
Astro,
Teague was ready to contribute last year from day 1. Maybe not at this level but certainly enough to warrant a steady dose of 15 minutes of day light.
The issue is that neither Woody nor LD gave him the chance to learn from his mistakes and get his mojo flowing.
Heck, if it wasn’t for the Hinrich injury is ass would glued to the bench as usual AND YOU would continue to say that he did not play because he was not ready and that “LD knows what is happening during practices”
All the noise that you can make will not change the fact that Teague has proven all doubters wrong.
And you know how I know you are 100% wrong? JJ, who can never be accused of being vocal nor being someone who will lightly endorse anything nor anyone has been saying ALL SEASON long that Teague deserved more time.
Astro Joe
May 11th, 2011
11:05 am
vava, I was in no means shape or form comparing Teague to Gibson. Teague was a SG sophomore trying to learn PG in the NBA. His path was always going to be harder than a senior PF playing PF. I was just remarking about how we seemingly have given up on finding solid players late in the 1st round while others seem to have figured out how to do it (quite successfully). And Teague’s performance in this series does nothing to make me think that my eyes deceived me earlier in the season when I saw a completely different player wearing number 0. I have no issues whatsoever with Teague’s path to success.
And just like all of the bigs got run in the last series against Howard, all of the little guys would have receive time against Rose in this series. I know how much you love a good conspiracy theory, but if nothing else, LD has shown a willingness to use the kitchen sink when defending certain players. Heck, didn’t we see RandMo in one of the games against D-12?
niremetal
May 11th, 2011
11:25 am
Vava,
Where did JJ say that Teague deserved more time?
People can and will draw whatever conclusions they want from Teague’s emergence in this series. I’m just glad he has stepped up when his number was called. I don’t see how it could possibly matter that he did not get more PT in the regular season if he’s doing well now that he is getting PT when it counts. Having him and Hinrich gives us 2 good options at PG with complementary skill sets, a luxury we haven’t enjoyed for a long time.
Rod from College Park
May 11th, 2011
11:27 am
Nire,
“And btw Rod, you are the only – and I mean only – person that thinks Thibs’ was playing a Jedi mind trick on LD through the media.”
Yeah, Im sure that everyone really feels like Marvin is vastly underated. I’m the only one who thinks differently. I guess that’s why Drew has dropped his minutes so much. LOL
Big Ray,
The Josh and Al debate is valid. Please name any team in the playoffs that do not depend on their all-stars. If Pierce, Allen, and Garnett don’t show up for Boston, if D. Rose does not show up for Chicago, Wade and Lebron for Miami, Westbrook and Durant for Ok. City, Nowitski for Dallas, Z-Bo for Memphis, Kobe and Gasol for the Lakers. Gasol played terribly for the Lakers, and he is being dogged in the media. Al plays well under his season averages for the whole playoffs, and we blame Josh. What other team with All Stars depends on a fringe player to determine if we win or lose. This year Josh has been moved from power forward because of Al, going forward we have to determine who is the better fit for this team. Al has performed worse than Josh in the playoffs, and really has been exposed. It’s jumper or nothing. He has rebounded well, but almost no offensive rebounds. I can’t count how many times Rose has converted an easy layup with no effort from Al at all to stop him. Two time All Stars in the NBA should be held to a higher standard, and Al has not stepped up in the playoffs at all. I really do like Al by the way, but no way he bring more to this team than Josh (when his head is screwed on).
Astro Joe
May 11th, 2011
11:46 am
What other team with All Stars depends on a fringe player to determine if we win or lose.
Rod, who is the “fringe player” who determines our success or failure?
vava74
May 11th, 2011
11:52 am
First impressions of the 1st quarter:
Josh came focused but Deng came in with his lucky pants on. Josh compensated later but got 2 fouls (one of them – the first – horribly dubious to me).
Diaper Al started filling up his diapers with 3 short/off-mark jumpers and a TO in the paint. Compensated with 2 jays but was being non existent on the boards.
The team was starting to get into a groove when IMO LD made a huge mistake by taking Teague off the game:
2 quick lay ups by Rose with JJ checking him and a 3 pointer by Bogans with Jamal (not) checking him… lead up to 10…
vava74
May 11th, 2011
11:54 am
With back on for JJ, good ball rotation by CHI, defense scrambling very out of control. Another 3 by Bogans, CHI by 13, followed by a stupid offensive foul by Jamal, followed by a back door cut by Bogans in which Jamal was caught sleeping…
vava74
May 11th, 2011
12:02 pm
nire,
JJ in is very bizarre and inarticulate way was very supportive of Teague saying repeatedly that when he is on the floor we were a completely different ball club.
He was not being merely nice when he said that.
vava74
May 11th, 2011
12:10 pm
Astro,
Give me a break. I don’t f*cking care what you saw when Teague player earlier in the season. I saw the same, I saw him lacking confidence and looking lost, however, I also saw clearly the frustration in his eyes and what was holding him back: lack of backing by your HC. Looking over your shoulder is too much pressure and Teague was not given the chance that he deserved to learn with his mistakes and shake off his jitters just for the sake of us having a dead mule playing PG.
The relevance for all this is that we could/should have addressed the PG needs differently and maybe we could have worked out a different trade if we were certain of Teague’s ability.
Teague did not simply woke up before Game 1 of this series a much better player.
He was this player already day 1 of the season or at least just a slightly less ready for prime version of what we are seeing now.
AND there is no doubt that DAY 1 Teague was a much better option to play backup PG than Jamal and should have been, at least, slowly eating on Bibby’s minutes.
vava74
May 11th, 2011
12:13 pm
Teague back on:
After the 2 plays mentioned above, Teague goes into the paint and scores on a teardrop.
Then, he manages to force a tough lay up by Rose, who misses.
Teague collects the rebound and pushes the tempo and runs deep in to the defense, makes a nifty outlet pass to Zaza (a bit low) who passes to Jamal at the elbow who scores on a jumper.
Teague at the PG: better D and better O
Jamal at the SG: better O
Rod from College Park
May 11th, 2011
12:17 pm
“Rod, who is the “fringe player” who determines our success or failure?”
Make an educated guess. The fringe player who gets all the blame when we lose.
vava74
May 11th, 2011
12:22 pm
Another Teague effect:
CHI is supposed to be the cream of the crop defensively.
Zaza and Teague on a deep pick ‘n roll play: Zaza dunks easily and with authority.
How many times have we seen Zaza dunk on an half court play?
Astro Joe
May 11th, 2011
12:38 pm
Rod, Joshis not a fringe player. Neither is Andrew Bynum or the 3rd wheel of any playoff team.
vava, folk asked for Teague’s development. He got it. What else is there to debate? You wanted him to be developed during the course of the year and I’ll be darned if he doesn’t look significantly better in games 89+ vs. game 40-50. What is there to debate?
vava74
May 11th, 2011
12:54 pm
Astro,
It’s no use discussing with you.
Teague’s level of play now, after game 89 was there earlier and it would have been beneficial for us to have exploited that (better seeding, better record, probably better chance to go deep in the playoffs).
No one wakes up after 89 games of little to no playing time much better than he was at games 40-50.
He would be at this level already early in the season if he had played more.
O'Brien
May 11th, 2011
1:38 pm
AJ,
I think the debate is if Teague had gotten more consistent PT in the first 40 games (especially when Bibby was struggling, and Jamal was struggling playing backup PG), maybe he would have looked better in game 59 instead of game 89.
That being said, I am just glad that Teague has accepted the challenge and has responded better than any of us thought he would. Hopefully, he carries it over to next year, and will earn the starting spot when Hinrich comes back.
Rod,
Josh is a borderline All-Star whose talent is highly respected by coaches, media and other players. He just needs to get it together mentally. Rasheed Wallace had some of the same issues. Despite Rasheed’s post ability, he would hang out and shoot 3’s, whine to the refs, lose focus etc. Eventually, Rasheed won a ring playing on the right team for the right coach. Hopefully, that will happen for Josh too.
wordsmithtom
May 11th, 2011
1:58 pm
Zaza keeps us in game first half, then sits down the stretch. JC1 goes 1-5….but plays the entire 4th. Make sense to anyone???!!!
LD may not be an idiot, but his substitution patterns baffle the ‘ell out of me.
Melvin
May 11th, 2011
2:03 pm
Maybe one of the reasons why Teague wasn’t getting a lot of playing time during the season is b/c he wasn’t saying the right things during film sessions. After reading LD post game comments, doesn’t sound like he was too impress with Teague quote.
Teague thought Rose fouled him on a layup and again when Teague was headed down court with a steal.
“You cannot go on the road in the fourth quarter down by one point and feel like the officials made bad calls or even the calls that were made in the fourth quarter affect you,” L.D. said. “A call probably didn’t go our way but at that point you cannot allow that to take you out of the game. That is just not being mentally strong. We have to play through it.”
Ray Washington
May 11th, 2011
4:49 pm
Is it just me or is the Hawks getting the short end of the stick when it comes to fouls in this series. I mean no one is talking about that at all, there has been some tough fouls giving to the hawks and the bulls are getting real cheap ones when it comes to the Hawks. Like that foul on JT last night from DR. Whats with that Ref?
Astro Joe
May 11th, 2011
8:20 pm
I understand that y’all think that Teague could have done this earlier, I just think you’re DEAD wrong. You’re assuming that his development would have been enhanced by playing in real games but that may not have been the case. And after seeing his uneven stretch immediately after the trade, I really don’t think that he was ready in February. Again, he received the development that he needed to reach this level of succes, I don’t understand why that isn’t sufficient.
O'Brien
May 11th, 2011
8:30 pm
I hope the Celtics can pull this game out. I would love to see it go 7 games.
AJ,
We’ll agree to disagree. Question for you. Given his play this series, do you think he has earned the starting spot for next season, or do you think he should compete with Kirk in the preseason?
IMO, I think he has earned it. And that would allow Hinrich to be our 6th man off the bench at either guard spot (because I dont think we can resign Jamal).
O'Brien
May 11th, 2011
9:30 pm
Once again, Boston does not execute down the stretch. Heat up 6 with less than a minute to go. So no Spurs, no Lakers, and no Celtics.
Congrats to Mike Bibby, on his way to the ECF. Hopefully, the Hawks can join him there.
Melvin
May 11th, 2011
9:45 pm
News that fans will be given white T-shirts for the whiteout pleased Smith. “It’s about time,” Smith said, smiling. “We’ve got to give away those T-shirts. Stop being stingy.” …
Ha,ha… Who is Josh referring to as being stingy….LOL
Astro Joe
May 11th, 2011
9:54 pm
OB, I think it should be an open competition between Hinrich and Teague and let the coaching staff decide. I had no issues with the way Hinroch played against the Magic. nire was correct earlier when he said that they have complementary skills. I think Teague is a better match-up against Rose, Jennings or Rondo but Hinrich is a better match-up against guys like Jameer, Billups, Deron or other bigger guards who try to bully their way to various spots on the floor. He has earned a ticket to compete for a starting job… but so did Hinrich in the first series. I generally like the idea of making guys compete for the privilege of time and starting. Teague may be more inclined to mimic Rose’s 1,000 shots/day regime from last summer if he feels like he needs to do that to continue to start for the team.
According to Hoopdata, Teague shot around 55% at the rim during the regular season. (And I know it was closer to 50% around the All-Star break). Sorry, I would not have wanted him to work on his floater for 18-20 minutes/game when he could have worked on that in practice. I also suspect that he needed an attitude adjustment that may not have happened had he been handed guaranteed playing time.
Whatever they have done that led Teague to this point, I say keep it up.
Melvin
May 11th, 2011
9:56 pm
A friend of mine who is a big Spurs fan sent the following question and observation below. I thought him I haven’t noticed it but I will look closely for it next game. Do any of you agree with his observation?
Mel, is it me or does it seem like Joe Johnson is not on board with Teague running the show?
I know what you mean, but I keyed in on him a few times and it seems like he’s a little uncomfortable with Teague’s success.
Astro Joe
May 11th, 2011
9:59 pm
Melvin, Josh is probably mad that he has to wash-out his headband every night. Actually, I thought that some company sponsored the Dwight-Out in the previous series… surely not everyone showed up in their own white shirt.
I wonder if Westbrook is going to freeze out Durant (again) tonight. Haha.
niremetal
May 11th, 2011
10:08 pm
Melvin,
A couple of people have been saying that on the main blog and on Hawksquawk as well. As usual, the only people saying it are people who dislike JJ (whether they want to come out and say it or not). The same people who said JJ was jealous of Jamal and wasn’t passing him the ball last year, statistical evidence that JJ had more assists to Jamal last year than any other player.
No, JJ does not strike me as being the least bit uncomfortable with Teague. He passed to Teague in the fourth and throughout the game, both under pressure and not, both coming up the floor and in the half court. Unless you think that JJ going ISO is automatically a reflection that he doesn’t trust Teague (in which case you’d have to say the same about pretty much all All-Star swingmen with respect to their team’s PGs) – something which I’ll note JJ only did 3 times in the fourth last night – then I don’t know what to tell you.
niremetal
May 11th, 2011
10:09 pm
statistical evidence that JJ had more assists to Jamal last year than any other player notwithstanding.
Melvin
May 11th, 2011
10:14 pm
Nire,
In my previous post, the last two quotes were from my friend and not me. Just wanted to point that out. Again, I haven’t notice such behavior from Joe but I will look for it in the next game.
Astro Joe
May 11th, 2011
10:16 pm
Melvin, I can’t say if Joe was mad at Teague the other night, but after scoring a very, very efficient 24 points in Game 4, he only had 10 FGAs in the first 3 quarters of Game 5. So he may have been ticked off that he wasn’t getting more touches after such a solid game two days prior. I recall another game during the regular season when Joe went off on someone and then the very next night, his teammates couldn’t find him. So I think he gets frustrated when he can’t get his touches after a very good game.
Joe seems fine with Jamal, and Teague isn’t even in the same universe as Jamal when it comes to being a chucker, oops, I mean high-volume scorer.
Astro Joe
May 11th, 2011
10:28 pm
March 15th, Joe goes for 36 against the Bucks and only misses 6 shots on the night (13-19). The next game against Denver, he gets 2 FGAs in the 1st quarter. The very next night. 2. And yeah, the Hawks lost that game by 15. So yeah, I think Joe sometimes gets ticked off when he doesn’t get his touches, especially if he just had a really, really good game.
Astro Joe
May 11th, 2011
10:32 pm
Dang, that Scott Linebrink just brought a gas jug to the mound. Oops, wrong blog.
BirdFan in Chi
May 11th, 2011
11:17 pm
If any of you Hawks fans are in Chicago during Game 6, we’re all gathering at Kelsey’s on Lincoln Ave. Kelsey’s is the only Falcons bar in Chicago (probably the Midwest) and it’s a fun group to watch a game with. Plus, it’s better than watching solo in a bar full of Bulls fans.
kwooden
May 12th, 2011
12:49 am
Tonight is Jamal’s time to shine. He’s got to attack the double-teams and get to the free throw-line. He needs to use the screens, but not always shoot jump-shots, but attack the basket.
GO HAWKS!!
Big Ray
May 12th, 2011
1:09 am
Rod ,
The debate is valid if we’re talking about who should be playing which position for the team. If we’re talking about who should be doing what in the playoffs, my point stands – BOTH guys are having problems for completely different reasons and BOTH guys need to step it up.
Maybe you’re reading a different blog than I am. I’ve seen PLENTY of criticism for Al Horford, and have offered up quite a bit of it myself.
The idea that Josh Smith is a fringe player is downright nuts. Weren’t you one of the guys saying Josh should have made the all-star team last year or this year? Fringe players are never considered for such honors.
Hell, I thought you were talking about Marvin…
O'Brien
May 12th, 2011
7:44 am
JJ has also been very complimentary to Teague, and was even in his ear over the offseason, so I dont think he has a problem with Teague and his success. Like AJ said, I think JJ gets frustrated at the team (and maybe even the coach and his offense at times).
AJ,
In that case, one option then is to have a Teague lineup when we play certain guys (Tony Parker, Rondo etc), and let Hinrich start the other games (similar to how Twin starts some games for us).
I guess the 2 big unknowns are 1) Will Jamal be here and 2) can Teague duplicate his performance coming off the bench, because he tends to play much better playing with the starters.
vava74
May 12th, 2011
8:53 am
How does it look now the past prospect of signing Shaq for the mid-level exception or for the 8 million he reportedly wanted from us that so many advocated so strongly???
Not even for the Celtics this guy felt motivated enough to get into shape (or simply stop eating junk) and lower his weight below the 280lbs mark which probably is the weight level that his aging body would still be able to cope with.
vava74
May 12th, 2011
9:01 am
Hinrich is the perfect 3rd guard for us allowing us to playing behind Teague and JJ if and when necessary.
Also, given Marvin’s crappy game and JJ’s fairly slow game, I think Teague – Hinrich – JJ would be a very good combo on the floor.
Hinrich is proving to be a very good spot up shooter with enough handles, ability to drive enough to keep defenses honest, poise and play making skills to complement Teague’s game under development.
By the way, due to having too much to do, I only watched the first half of game 5 but in general I think that possessions initiated by Teague as a playmaker had a much higher conversion percentage than the ones started by Jamal and JJ who, against tight defenses, should be working off the ball to get free.
Also from the first half, I think JJ can only blame himself: he showed very little spunk and willingness to run away from Bogans and get free to catch and shoot.
doc
May 12th, 2011
9:29 am
vava, to go along with that, jj really has to dedicate himself to better conditioning so he can run more around screens. with the ball, he really doesnt have to work as hard and with woody ball got lazy. he has been tremendously effective moving without the ball to get to spots and receive and shoot this year when he has done it. look how effective he was two games ago. he is a lot like josh in that he sometimes doesnt really want to do what might be best for the team and continues to hide in his own denial of what and who he is and how best to get it done. for example, wade and allen and pierce are fierce in the way they approach this part of the game. he is not. uncle larry’s offense required movement of bodies and not just the ball. we have all seen how effective it is when the bodies move at the same rate as the ball does. the lead dog needs to set the example if he wants to kead by example. then josh has no excuses when it is asked of him to crash the boards with a moving body as it should be designed. some of this is ld not being emphatic enough to make this suggestion over and over again as he has done with the notion we are effective when we move the ball. he needs to add and bodies, too.
with both hinrich and now teague around it might be harder for these guts to stand. hinrich brought that hustle with him. the bibby/woody offense mandated a mentality of waiting for the iso to work, hence no movement of bodies, it also induced spot up shooters. it is what it is and it will have to continue to transition until they ALL get it.
i really thought that was going to be the downfall of this team this year in not being able to get them to move after the woody years; the bad habits would take a long time to overcome. so with that idea this team has really exceeded my expectations and i am proud of them. however, there is more to learn and do and maybe the cast will have to change. first, finish the season either in this round, probably, or the next, then to a new cba and finally then a new season to find out. in between time a lot of time for canniblogging.
Sautee
May 12th, 2011
2:12 pm
doc,
Good call on JJ not moving enough. You and I have talked about this before. Even in LD’s offense, when Joe makes a cut, he seems to just float, and not cut HARD. I think if he made his cuts as hard as Kirk, he’d have two or three more layups per game. He might even (gasp) have a dunk or two.