Teague’s time may have finally come

LD just has to give Teague some burn.He has no excuses because before it was Bibby and mo messing up the rotation for Teague. 20mins plus I’m not so sure but I wont be surprised if he takes up Mo’s consistent 14ish MPG.

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Id like to thank my mama. love u mama. my dad my grandpa and my grandma.I cant forget my brothers and sisters either. I also like to thank Ryan Cameron for yelling threeeeee all the time. I also would like to take this opportunity to welcome the Kirkster AKA the Hinrich maneuver. We gon love you out here in Atlanta. o yah shout out to my old high school coach. Thank you…

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At least for 1 game the Hawks looked better against a good guard combo.We all know the talent is there; it’s just a matter of whether they want to play. A lot depends on our guards leading the defense, which hasn’t been happening.

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And in the wake of JTs time “finally coming”
6pts, 2rebs, 6asst, 3TOs.
Can’t wait for what the future holds vs someone other than the golden showers.

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THis still is a horrible trade, but start Teague instead of Hinrich. I MISS BIBBY!

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Great defensive performance last night. I’m not sure that a Hinrich/Teague PG combo will produce eye-poppoing stats, their contribution has to be observed during the game. Teague is clearly a work in progress… tremendous speed but struggles to finish close to the rim. He can get there but he still has problems converting. But if those two (Hinrich/Teague) can take a shutdown CB approach to defending the opposing PG, they will hugely impact the team’s success.

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Good to hear someone who knows what it takes:

““I think we could be,” Hinrich said. “If we defend and make that a trademark of ours, with the versatility of our lineups and our length we can be a very tough team to beat.”

They should print this stuff and put it in a banner on the locker room.

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Now could you imagine if we had signed Shaq and not Boston?

And could you imagine if we had signed Dampier and not Miami?

We would currently be the team to beat, with Chitown in the East, and maybe for the whole shootin’ match.

Could you imagine a team with:

Shaq
Horford
Josh
JJ
Hinrich

As starters, and:

Teague
Dampier
Jamal
Marvin

Off the bench? Maybe Sund should listen to some of his blog people. Folks on here could have built him a championship this year, and still saved ASG money.

Bring Shaq in. Wine and dine him. Show him you want him worse than any other team, and I think he still may sign with you for the vet min. or at least the Two Exception. Then your only a few hundred grand over Luxury Tax if any.

Man, what could’ve been.

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I liked what little I saw last night from Hinrich. He’s a definite upgrade over Bibby IMO. I really liked his hustle and ball skills. And, he actually plays Defense.

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Damion Wilkins is going to get Mo’s minutes, and once Kirk figures things out Teague will be back to under 10 minutes a game.

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On Josh’s non-jumpers, he is 12-15 over the past 3 games from the field (.800 FG%). He’s shot exactly twice as many jumpers as non-jumpers, while shooting exactly half as well from the field on jumpers as compared to non-jumpers.

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Teague in tandem with Kirk is so much better than Bibby and jamal at point.

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Maybe you don’t hand Teague the starting job because of this, but he has emphatically earned a spot in the rotation. No excuse at this point not to find 20 minutes per game for him. None. Take some minutes from Jamal and give them to Teague if necessary.

The Teague Party Movement is in full effect.

Oh yeah, and how does everyone feel about Smoove for Steph Curry and Biedrins now? LMAO

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Also, I think this is common sense, but seeing as how a point guard’s job is to set up his teammates, it should have been obvious that if Teague played with the starters he would look better than he would playing with the abhorrent bench. Needless to say, passes to Joe/Smoove/Al are going to get converted into assists a lot more often than passes to Zaza/Powell/Mo.

He does need to get a lot better at finishing in traffic and shooting off the dribble. But his defense, ability to run the offense, and ability to drive and dish are easily good enough to warrant a spot in the rotation.

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Ken/Najeh/etc,

Sorry, but minutes shouldn’t affect Teague’s ability to play D. There’s no excuse for how poor he was at that end. The past two games were the first I’ve seen from him SINCE HE WAS DRAFTED where he was moving his feet consistently on defense. And he did it from the moment he hit the floor both times. So no, I’m sorry, inconsistent minutes were not his problem earlier. If he had shown an ounce of ability to defend, then maybe. But he didn’t. He gave us NOTHING in the minutes he was in. Bibby couldn’t defend, but at least gave us the ability to knock down open shots, take care of the ball, and run an occasional pick-and-roll. Teague couldn’t do any of those things. So unless he was a practice superstar, there was no reason to play him on a playoff-bound team. None.

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I look to the Hawks as a guilty pleasure or avoidance mechanism (escapism) to the reality of lies and double speak of politics. I didn’t not expect so much double speak and politicking from LD. He did not want to break up the bureaucracy of Bibby and the apparent silly lull he had over a maturing Hawks squad. A virtual ‘good ol boys network’ of Bibby, Zaza and Mo Evan was evident and it stunk up Phillips Arena and other arenas. Forget breaking up the core, LD refused to allow anyone to break into that TURRIBLE triumvirate that produced nothing but shame – no matter what positives they brought to the table. Recall LD saying before the All-Star break that his rotation was set for the 2nd half and playoffs; meaning Wilkins, Teague and JC2 would be regularly glued to the pine like resin to a baseball bat. Now he says that he has never given up on Teague. Please dude, save the booboo for your face because if Teague keeps it up and really develops into something nice – it’d be in spite of you, Drew.
He is a master of double speak but not one of player rotations and motivating influence to developing talents. Play the youngster!

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Big Ray, great read on Teague…the young fellow has a ways to go…however, he looked more than capable of handling additional minutes at the PG…whether he starts or not. For the most part, he played under control…his ability to finish at the rack will improve with increased PT…a lot of those missed layup…will be dunks!!!

We may have struck Gold with captain Kirk Hinrich …he should be a breath of fresh air for these guys…love the way he was working the ref last night… dude came out and played like he had been with the entire season.

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O’B,

Why is it that you seem to think that because a player doesn’t do something well early in the game, it’s a signal he won’t do something well for the rest of the game either? Basketball doesn’t work that way. Players often start cold and get hot.

And before you say “well, Teague never gets the chance to play through his mistakes.” Yeah, well guess what? That’s what young players selected outside the lottery have to deal with, especially on playoff teams. Bibby has a track record of being a reliable player late in games. Teague does not. There isn’t one damned coach in the NBA whose team is playoff-bound who doesn’t give veterans WAY more leeway than young players without a track record.

Veterans get to play through their mistakes. Young players do not. Teague pretty much never made the most of the minutes he got. Thus, he rode the pine. And that’s what he’ll keep doing for the rest of his career if he can’t make more out of the 10-12 minutes a game he gets.

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bibby is gone hurah eddie house without wheels these days. he can be good for teams over the lux cap just not us. thanks forcwhat you dud for us. in the mean time RIP until resurrected with a contender.

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nire,

I agree that veterans get to play through their mistakes, and Bibby has a very good reputation of coming through when it matters. But since January, his struggles were getting worse, he said he was tired, and even LD said he looks worn down on film, so clearly Bibby was on the decline.

With that in mind, why not give Teague a chance instead of sticking with the same guys who you’ve been losing with? What’s the worse that would have happened? Hawks lose? They were losing anyway.

But what does LD do? he plays Jamal at backup PG, and only to see Jamal struggle as well. At least Teague would have gotten some experience, and the front office would have a better idea if he is worth keeping this season.

Its like when the starters start the game with no energy and before you know it, thet are down 15 in the first quarter. But what does LD do? he starts the same guys in the second half, only to watch them to continue to struggle.

I know that alot of coaches do it, so its not just LD. But (imo), Bibby would not start for any of the other playoff teams, so why not give Teague a little longer rope to see if he turns it around or hangs himself, especially since LD spoke glowingly about him before the season started?

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“And before you say “well, Teague never gets the chance to play through his mistakes.” Yeah, well guess what? That’s what young players selected outside the lottery have to deal with, especially on playoff teams.”

Hmm… off the top of my head, Rajon Rondo, George Hill, Gary Neal, Paul Millsap, and Taj Gibson would all disagree. None of those players came in and played well every single time they got minutes right off the bat. The difference is that when they had bad games, the coach didn’t use that as an excuse to bury them on the bench, and they all had defined roles in the rotation that allowed them to make a consistent impact.

Nobody’s saying Teague should have been starting or on the court at crunch time for the last one and a half years. But working him into a regular role in the rotation would not have been that hard, particularly given the pre-trade backcourt’s defensive problems. Sure, Teague hasn’t shown otherworldly defensive ability on a consistent basis, but he has shown better defensive ability than Bibby, enough to where he could have been used in a role as a defensive specialist the way Damien Wilkins gets used in that role at SF. It’s not like Damien has ever been known as a lock down defender before this year. So much of bench players’ success comes from having a defined role, anyway. If Teague was used in a defined role as a defensive specialist, rather than having his minutes jerked around and playing mostly in garbage time without any clear directive on what to focus on while on the court, maybe he would have had more of an impact.

And it’s not like he didn’t have his share of impactful games anyway; pretty much every game in his career in which he has played 20 or more minutes, he has provided a pretty decent looking stat line. Granted, some of those games have come in garbage time, but you can only play the minutes you are allowed to play. At the very least, his production has been no worse than that of the typical backup point guard in the league. Whether he’s the future for the Hawks or not, he’s good enough to be in the rotation and play meaningful minutes.

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Finally is the wrong word. Teague is still a rookie in playing time and experience. There were scouts and GM’s that thought Teague would be the best PG in that class in 3 years. If Teague can do 75% of what Jennings did for the Bucks last year before his rookie contract is up. We got a steal, end of story and he will do atleast that.

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The truth we got another guy on the team that looks like Zaza and some are going to defend this to the end and will never give Teague credit for stepping it up. Teague set the tone against GS and played well against Phoenix. He has been better than Hinrich since the trade.

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Rondo’s rookie season, he got good minutes in November, but although he would show flashes, he was very inconsistent. 19 mpg, 5 ppg, 3 assists and 3 rebs, 2 turnovers game.

His minutes in December was up and down, and so was his play.
13 mpg, 3 ppg, 2 assists, 2 rebs and 1 turnover per game.

January, his minutes went up, but he was still inconsistent.
19 mpg, 6 ppg, 3 assists, 3 rebs and 2 t.o. per game.

In February, I think he became the starter, and that’s when he showed more consistency.
26 mpg, 7 ppg, 5 assists, 4 rebs and 2 turnovers per game.

His March numbers;
30 mpg, 7 ppg, 5 assists, 5 rebs and 2 turnovers per game.

April: 37 mpg, 13 ppg, 6 assists, 6 rebs and 2 turnovers per game.

Rondo was inconsistent early on (including his defense), and so were his minutes. As the season went on, and the Celtics lost more games, Rondo got more minutes and became the starter. That’s when his play really took off.

Obviously, the Hawks are a 50 win team, so it’s hard to justify giving Teague the minutes Rondo got (since Teague was very inconsistent). But if Rondo didn’t get those minutes towards the end of the season, he probably would not have been the player he has turned out to be.

And he might not have been ready to play with the big 3 when the Celtics got him.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/3026/year/2007/rajon-rondo/

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look at their rookie game logs, they each had good games and bad games.

I watched the actual games, Najeh. The game logs don’t tell much at all of the story, especially on defense. Please.

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And lest I forget, there’s a whole ‘nother aspect of the game that the coach sees and we don’t – practice. This is why I’ve stopped making arguments that individual players should get more minutes. How a player performs in practice has a significant impact on his in-game minutes, and practice performance is something we aren’t privy to. Considering how poorly Teague CONSISTENTLY has played in games the past couple years, I don’t see what possible basis there could be for saying he deserves more minutes on a team that is headed for the playoffs rather than the lottery.

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“And you’re ignoring the fact that Rondo played on a 60-loss team that was obviously tanking at the end of his rookie season…why? Oh, because it makes his situation totally irrelevant to that of Teague, who came in to a team that was playing for home-court advantage in the playoffs rather than jockeying for lottery position.”

Different? Yes. Totally irrelevant? No. I have never said Teague should be starting or getting the 35 minutes per game Rondo got in the last month of his rookie season. Obviously he was playing on a much better team and those minutes weren’t going to be available. What I have said constantly is that Teague showed enough in the minutes he played to be able to hold down a spot in the rotation, and if he had a defined role from the start of last season, he would have been likely improved and played his way into more meaningful playing time — much like Rondo did.

And anyway, you are just flat out wrong about Teague “consistently playing like crap”. At worst, he has played like a typical backup point guard in the league, no worse. He certainly hasn’t played badly enough to be buried on the end of the bench. And on the occasions when he has played better than a typical backup point guard — like the four game stretch in December of his rookie year — he has found himself buried on the bench again after that.

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i know its only two games, but i think im gonna fall in love with the new look hawks. even if we lose, i love to lose with some intensity in our eyes. in the past ive watched the hawks lose, long before the final buzzer. hopefully from now on, if there is a stat in the “L” column it will be because we ran out of time. I have a great idea!!! what if we move jj to the 3 and start teague and heinrich in the backcourt. i think with this tweak we would have the most complete starting lineup in the nba. talk about the tenacious defense we would have in THAT backcourt.

1=teague
2=kirk
3=jj
4=smith
5=horford

but i dont know how the bench rotation would workout. let me know what yall think of this, cuz marvin is the weak link in our starting rotation

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rondo’s second season was even more telling as the celts had no choice but to hitch themselves to rondo as they made their way to becoming champions. it wasnt pretty at times as rivers continually harrassed rondo and showed veey little confidence in him. rondo came of age in the last two series. i wqtched rivers eseentially abuse rondo on every possession it seemed as to what to do. it was impressive what rondo accomplished but i think it was not until his third year or even his fourth that he finally got the reins totally to do what he does now. teague is going to have to peresevere a while longer as he gets his full trust. what has bothered me is his lack of desire to be the man and not sure why. i hope to see less of that going forward.

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Teague started twice last year. I remember both games clearly because they were basically an audition for him. He played poorly both times, especially at the defensive end. What made the game against GS (and to a lesser extent PHO) different? Well, none of us know. But don’t pretend this was the first opportunity he was given to play big minutes with the starters. It wasn’t. It was just the first time he did so without falling flat on his face.

And no, I’m not “just flat out wrong” about anything, but this is all a matter of opinion. To my eye, I have seen no more than 8-10 games where Teague played well in meaningful (ie first half of a game, or second half in a close game) since the beginning of last year. In the remaining 70 or so games, he played like crap at both ends of the floor.

Don’t pretend that my opinion is a radical one, either. Lots of people around here also think that Jeff Teague has been terrible since we drafted him.

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And if your argument, Najeh, is that there are young players who have been permitted to play through their mistakes, then you aren’t really responding to the main thrust of my argument. Of course some young players get to play through their mistakes. I was stating a general rule, like saying “teams without superstars don’t win championships.” I never said that there were no exceptions.

Non-lottery picks on playoff teams like Teague have the least rope of all. It’s a sliding scale – the fewer mistakes a young player makes, the more minutes he gets. I have never seen a player who as played as poorly as Teague get minutes on a team as good as the Hawks.

All the counterexamples you provided played better than Teague out of the gate (which was the case for ALL of the players you mentioned) and/or else played for worse teams (Gibson and Rondo). If you want to argue otherwise, fine. But if not, then I don’t see what you’re getting at. Teague did not play well out of the gate like Millsap, Hill, Gibson, and Neal. Rookie Rondo played for a 60-loss team that made a concerted effort not to win games after the new year, so it was a totally different situation and has only marginal relevance to players on playoff teams.

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Niremetal, you are going from blog to blog with this same bullshi+. Teague had his chance, Teague is garbage, I am happy to see Teague get playing time but Kirk should be the starter, that’s you, like you have to sell this move to everyone. Kirk Hinrich has more of a track record of being a combo guard than Teague has of anything good or bad in the NBA. So, why should Kirk be given the position when he was not good enough to start over 2 rookies? When he was not good enough to get either of those teams that John Wall or Derrick Rose took over the year after Mr. Savior led them to the lotto? Seriously, Hinrich has a bigger resume of totally F’ing things up to the point of the team making the lottery than Teague has anything. Teague is simply inexperienced, Hinrich is experienced at being a mediocre leader that can be upgraded. He is a upgrade defensively over Bibby and that’s it. He is no great player that is going to push this team to the next level. Paying Kirk Hinrich almost $9 a year for next year would be a huge mistake, just another overpaid Hawk, add him to Marvin, Zaza, and JJ to some extinct even though JJ is still the 3rd best SG in the league. Hinrich is not even a top 20 PG and look at his salary. There is a reason he has been traded so often, what he gives you is not as valuable as what you guys are trying to make it out to be. I hope we can trade him along with another #1 draft pick to Utah this summer for Devin Harris who makes the same salary as Hinrich and is a top 10 PG easily. Lastly, I never liked Zaza because blogs overrated him and I feel a major part of that is because he looked like what people in good ole Georgia really would prefer if the world worked exactly like they wanted it to. Peachtree Hoops motto was there is no love like Zaza love, that is the most telling thing I ever read. One of the most worthless guys on the team and now in the league and that’s who you love. Kinda like Eminem to hip hop, these guys start to take away from the art and love of the craft because people blindly love them because they can be white in a black man’s game and hold there own, holding there own get’s blown out of proportion to being the greatest or the answer. Hinrich is a stop gap who is getting blown out of proportion, they are downing Bibby’s demeanor, saying Teague had his chance, let’s bury him for this stop gap who has never proven to be anything other than that. Look deeper man.

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From MC’s latest blog, ZaZa speaking;

“It’s obvious,” he said. “Especially the role I am in, to bring energy. I am role player bringing energy and effort off the bench. Not only just me, but I am talking about any role player to come off the bench and [it's difficult to] make a difference in five, six minutes right away. I have had the games played more than 20 minutes [and] this is where you see the efficiency and my effort and energy.

“Especially I don’t come to the game and [have] any plays–not complaining, just saying that’s my [role]. In my situation to play five or six minutes, you have a defensive slippage or teams make most of their shots and don’t give you a chance to get a defensive rebound. Or offensively you make a mistake. My time is going fast meanwhile and you don’t seem that efficient.”.

I think Teague could probably say some of the same things…

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JC2 in his 2nd game with the Wizards got nice stats. He even was on the floor at the end of the game when they were tied. Trading him could turn out a huge mistake.

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BIG RAY-Comeon now, don’t over simplify. You and I both know that there was a lot more behind trading Bibby than forcing Drew to play Teague more. MGT obviously felt as I did, and that was the conclusion that Bibby had become both an OFF and DEF liability. They felt so strongly about it they were willing to overpay to get someone to take him off their hands. They were also willing to take on more salay as well, in order to get more OFF/DEF production.

I think they also wanted to change the atmosphere and direction. Bibby was the team clown and everyone’s friend, but he was no longer the floor general he once was. He simply started deferring too much, and I believe that’s what prompted Teague’s comment last yr, when he said maybe he’ll just get it across half court and hand it off, when asked about how he’d handle running the OFF.

I don’t know why you find it so hard to believe Sund and/or the ASG would wait until the trade deadline to give him an untimatum. After all, didn’t they wait an entire season, and give Woodson every chance to do what they expected of him before pulling the plug. If they had no intentions of pulling the plug on LDrew, why not get involved at the trade deadline.

BIG RAY, I’d like you to offer an answer to the following questions:
1-why do you think Bibby was traded?
2-do you think LDrew initiated the trade of the PG he respected and depended on so much, or do you think it was Sund’s/ASG’s decision?
You asked why would Sund wait so late to give LDrew a mandate, when the question(s) should have been:
3-why would LDrew wait so long to decide Bibby had to go, and
4-why did he suddenly decide to do a complete 180 with both Teague and JPowell, if he didn’t have a mandate?

I believe MGT stepped in because they didn’t want a repeat of last yr, where they stood by and did nothing while Woodson rode Bibby’s back, as the team went down in flames. They knew that’s exactly where this team was headed with LDrew blindly following Woodson’s formula, except it was likely to happen in the 1st rd instead of the 2nd.

You may disagree, which is fine with me, but I stand by my position. There’s no way on earth that LDrew, and LDrew alone, and just before the trade deadline, decided that JTeague had miraculously become aggressiveness enough, mature enough, and confident enough, to replace Bibby, and that Bibby should be traded, NO WAY IN HELL.

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BIG RAY-You are certainly entitled to your opinion, I have no problem with that, but I’ll stick by mine. You said you found it hard to believe RSund would wait so long in the season to give Drew a mandate.

Well, if you don’t think he was given a mandate, then why do you think it took LDrew just as long to decide that JTeague had become aggressive enough, mature enough, and confident enough, to take over for Bibby? And what has Teague done to make Drew feel he could trade Bibby, the PG he depended on to the extent of playing him 30MPG?

I’d say that Sund and the ASG saw Drew following the same ill advised approach that Woodson took with Bibby and the team overall, and didn’t want a repeat of last yr. So, they decided to step in, make changes, and give Drew a mandate.

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Twitter Updates;

Mike Prada: I asked Jordan Crawford how one develops without PT: “You can’t. You can’t. That’s how I look at it. I don’t think you can.” Twitter.

John Canzano: Keep an eye on Mike Bibby. Portland feels like a potential suitor there, even as Bibby would have to give up big money to make it happen. Twitter..

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OBRIEN-Portland has been interested in acquiring Bibby for yrs.

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I think Ty Lawson and Eric Maynor are two players that’s in a situation similar to Teague. Both came into the league to play for playoff teams in a backup role. Both has played consistent mins since their rookie season…

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I think all 12 players hould get at least 18 minutes/game and we should stay in the lottery for the next 25 years. Some are clearly more interested in player development than winning.

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If everyone gets 18 minutes of development time, who cares which 5 guys start. I look forward to watching Zaza, Hilton, Collins and Powell get their time they are owed as NBA players while Josh and Al sit.

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Most of this talk about Teague is ridiculous. Teague played with an upper class team at Wake and was a scoring point guard off the dribble and not a jump shooter. Teague did not even play the full 4 years. Everyone knows Teague was a project with exceptional athleticism and speed.

Other point guards such as George Hill. Eric Maynor, Jrue Holliday, and Collison ran the show at PG for their college teams.

Mostly how much playing time a player gets at the next level depends on the coach and what he expects from his personnel.

With so many different and confusing comments from Drew who knows what he wants from Teague? Only Drew and Teague can answer that.

It just doesn’t make sense that Teague did not play over Bibby or even Jamal at times with their terrible defense, regardless to how long they have been playing or what they have accomplished in the past.

It is fine if Hinrich starts over Teague as long as Drew doesn’t mess with Teague’s confidence to go out and play the pg position. Teague’s confidence and work ethic will determine whether or not he succeeds with the Hawks. And also Teague’s in a pretty good position with Hinrich in-house to mentor him.

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Eminem is much, much better at hip hop than Zaza can ever hope to be at basketball.

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Big Ray,

If LD liked what he saw from Powell in the last game, then ZaZa might be already be out of the rotation. The interesting thing to me is Powell is a backup PF, while ZaZa is a backup Center, so how does LD juggle there respective PT?

As for Teague, his challenge will be when he is coming off the bench with Jamal. Does he defer? Does Jamal dominate the ball while Teague stands in the corner? What does Josh Powell and ZaZa do with Teague’s passes?

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Did Josh Smith play better after his alledged All-Star snub? Sure, he even said that he was trying to “punish the Eastern Conference coaches”. So does that mean that players sometimes perform better when properly motivated? Teague has played well enough that last two games after he saw that change could in fact happen when it looks like progress isn’t being made. So just like someone could ask Josh why he didn’t play with the sense of urgency he has recently displayed before the ASG, my guess is LD could be asking Teague the same question. Y’all act like you’ve never personally needed a light placed under your butt to get in gear in school or on a job (or in a relationship for that matter). You likely always had the ability to do better but you allowed complacency to set in. Josh was lit by the ASG snub, maybe Teague was lit when his best bud and Bibby got dumped to an awful team.

I don’t think Al was dissing Bibby as he knows that Bibby doesn’t have the physical tools to play full court defense against someone like Curry. Just like he says (often) that he doesn’t have the physical tools to play center. Heck, if Al was dissing Bibby then I guess Al’s dad was dissing his son. I don’t think either was the case, some guys have different physical attributes and Al is a prime example.

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LD going with the same lineup tonight. Teague, JJ, Marvin, Josh and Al.

Maybe going up against Brandon Roy will get JJ going. LD will have to keep an eye on Teague, because Andre Miller can post him up.

Will Teague have another solid game? Will Marvin get going? Will ZaZa get any PT? Lots to keep an eye on.

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The hawks needs a face, you turn your tv on to watch the falcons you see Authur Blanks, Dallas Cowboys Jerry Jones, Dallas Mavericks Mark Cuban, and etc. They all love to be interviewed by the national media. The hawks are 35-23 in the eastern conf. New York Knicks at 29-27 gets more pub than the hawks and this has been going on even before the trade. Mark Cuban would not allow this to happen. What the ASG simple do not understand, is that you have to continue to sell your team to the national media, especially when they have a winning record. Can’t believe the nba gave these guys a franchise.

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Trade Teague for Kobe and a first round pick………;lol

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I didnt realize the Hawks had 2 TPE. Oh well, it doesn’t matter they wasn’t going to use any of them anyway..

Atlanta Hawks
Current Commitments: $69.6 million
Remaining Cap Space: $0
Luxury Tax Status: No
Mid-Level Exception: Full amount available
Bi-Annual Exception: Full amount available
Traded Player Exception: 2 ($3.6 million – Josh Childress; $1.0 million – Jordan Crawford)

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=18916

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Big Ray,

That is Teague’s biggest weakness. His confidence on the offensive end.

Meanwhile, 2 fouls on Al

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Is this one of those nights when Josh takes a lot of jumpers?

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“Something tells me LD really did it to see how Pachulia would react. Because I do believe we’re seeing a reaction from Pachulia.”

Co-sign. He hasn’t looked this good all year.

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Josh SMith, 0-3 outside the paint already…

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Najeh,

There really is no sense engaging people who are making arguments based solely on looking up old game logs. None. So after this, I’m done with discussing this with you.

In how many games has he even played “meaningful” minutes? When has he even played in the second half of a close game for this team?

Minutes in the first half are meaningful. Rookies who play as crappily as Teague has in first half minutes sure as hell don’t get second half minutes in a close game.

Teague has been, but if he can play quality minutes all of a sudden over the last two games, chances are he could have done the same earlier if he had been given a defined role as the backup point guard before, rather than having his minutes arbitrarily jerked around. Like I said earlier, he didn’t wake up Wednesday and pop a pill that magically made him not suck.

That there is what is called assuming your conclusion. You’re assuming the difference was the minutes rather than a new sense of urgency brought on by the trade. That makes little sense because he’s had the minutes before. This was just the first time he didn’t suck in them.

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Najeh,

Sorry, it’s really funny to see you co-sign the quote at 11:04 after what you’ve been saying about Teague.

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ZaZa with 7 rebounds in 8 minutes?

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ZaZa playing like he doesnt want to relocate his restaurant…

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So Jamal is playing PG while Kirk plays SG?

Whats up with all these turnovers?

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Zaza playing with a renewed sense of urgency. Seems to be a running theme with our often (and rightfully) maligned bench.

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“Sorry, it’s really funny to see you co-sign the quote at 11:04 after what you’ve been saying about Teague.”

Zaza has been getting meaningful minutes all year, regardless of whether or not he has deserved them. Teague has not.

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Hawks with 9 turnovers.

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Make that 10. I like our defense though

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“That there is what is called assuming your conclusion. You’re assuming the difference was the minutes rather than a new sense of urgency brought on by the trade. ”

First of all, Teague has done a lot of the same things prior to the last couple of games that he did against the Suns and Warriors, regardless of how strongly you want to close your eyes and ears and yell “la la la la” to any evidence of Teague playing well prior to four days ago. Secondly, why can’t it be both? Why couldn’t Teague’s good play in the last two games have been a function of both a trade-induced sense of urgency as well as being able to play meaningful minutes with the starters?

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Wow…that’s what I call getting away with a travel.

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Even without Teague and Hinrich in the game, our defensive intensity has picked up.

Was Bibby slowing us down that bad? Or maybe the trade lit a fire under the rest of the Hawks to step up there defense.

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Boy we’re playin’ DEFENSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Big Ray,

did you catch Hinrich expression after Jamal didnt pass him the ball on the fastbreak?

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“Jamal’s shooting/scoring and the defensive production in the first half does not bode well for Teague’s PT in the second half, I’m afraid. ”

I’m a lot less bent out of shape about Teague’s minutes when he has a quality player on both ends of the floor playing in front of him. Let’s face it, the outcry over Teague’s minutes from me as well as everyone else wouldn’t have been nearly as loud if Bibby had been playing like Hinrich.

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“Even with 12 turnovers and .429FG%, we’re leading by 12 at the half. Man, what a difference being able to play solid DEF makes. ”

Credit where credit is due. You don’t shoot poorly and turn the ball over a lot and still manage to hold the lead without offensive boards. Zaza was huge in that first half.

And the commitment to sharing the ball and getting out in transition led to a ton of free throw attempts, which helped a lot too.

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“How does the Bulls feel now, trading LaMarcus for Tyrus on draft night…”

Haha… I thought that trade was dumb the minute it happened. The Bulls had a ton of good athletes and no low post scorer, and they traded a low post scorer for a raw athlete. Didn’t make any sense.

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You can tell Hinrich does not like wearing those goggles. He takes them off at every chance he gets….

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Hinrich clearly doesn’t have a feel for his teammates yet. Anyone who watched him in Chicago or Washington knows that this isn’t characteristic for him.

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Terrible, terrible call. Batum flopped and the refs fell for it.

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Where is teague? 13 minutes of PT?

hawks with 23 turnovers. Big 3 by Jamal. But I don’t like the play calling down the stretch.

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Ray,

I don’t like LD’S lineup and playcalling down the stretch.

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I normally like Batum. But he’s doing his best Laimbeer impression tonight.

Looks like we’re going to pull this out. Teague wasn’t as good tonight as he was the past couple games, but that’s forgivable because Miller is a very tough matchup for him (too big and too savvy). The team got after it defensively, and forced the Blazers to earn their points even during their late run.

They need to work on how to counter a full-court press, though. They were running around like chickens with their heads cut off once the Blazers started that up. I’m hoping that is largely a function of Hinrich needing more time to acclimate himself to his teammates and to the system.

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Josh’s jumpers watch update:

vs. Pho: 6-13 (1-3 on 3s)
vs. GS: 5-10 (1-2 on 3s)
vs. Por: 0-6 (0-3 on 3s)

Total: 11-29 (2-8 on 3s)
FG%: .379
eFG%: .414
eFG% vs. season avg: -.018
vs. ’09-’10 avg: +.129

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Teague is our best perimeter defender by far. Andre Miller did not score a point on Teague even though he is our smallest guard. He got all of his points on Jamal and Hinrich. Hinrich is better than Bibby but he is not even close to Teague on D, but he will get all the minutes because he can make shots. Nothing has changed the same ole Hawks play the dudes that score.

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Im calling it. Look for turnovers to be the biggest issue with the hawks. Followed by rebounding.

KEN STRICKLAND- if matt ryan was traded at halftime for aaron rodgers. Chris redman would be thrust into the starting lineup. Why? Because chris knows the playbook and terminology and is simply the safest option.Its not like chris cant throw for 250+3tds.When rodgers gets familiar then he would be the starting quarterback and chris would be glued to the bench. Teague doesnt play better because he starts. He plays better when he decides to do what is asked of him. The statline he had against portland is exactly what keeps him on the bench. Hes not there because he sucks or because LD is the antichrist and wants to pin him there. Hes there because the chances of other hawks doing what is asked of them is almost 90%. with teague you just hope and pray. You cant jope and pray for 20+mins everyday. Sometimes you simply take chances. To say LD is making changes because Rick Sund asked him to is just not logical.

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Just saw the game I would summon it up by saying that we played a man’s game tonight.

In spite of the turnovers – many of them coming after ball recoveries in defensive action and quite a few on botched calls by the refs – we totally dominated POR.

Unfortunately, LD’s insistence on playing Jamal during crunch time when WE DID NOT NEED OFFENSE almost lead us to a disaster.

How many times do we have to witness LD over-utilizing Jamal and place us in a tight spot defensively due to that?

Don’t come with that: he came through with that 3 pointer and with his FTs. We should never had to be in that position to start with being up by 20 just 2 minutes before.

Jamal had a decently good overall game (it would have been much better if he had sat the whole 4th) with some flashes of decent D during the first half but after Teague had such a good second stint to open the second half, there is no justification for him not being on the floor to close the 4th.

Teague may have struggled again on offense but he is the reason why Miller got his second foul and went to the bench at a crucial moment of the first half (and he held his own really well on that match up, in particular to open the 3rd).

Zaza showed up, at last, and was fundamental in light of Al’s foul trouble and it was good to see Marvin stepping up as well and doing what he should do every night consistently: play disciplined D, rebound, run the break and get to the line…

I know that Powell has not been particularly good throughout the season, but I have noticed some significant improvement over the course of the last few games.

Since he has recovered from his knee troubles and after being relegated to the end of the bench he is starting to give us a few decent minutes, rebounding better and playing much much better D (good rotations).

His penchant to collect unfortunate TOs continues: this time he got a complicated offensive rebound and saved it over the line just to give it away to a Blazer and then was called for a botched (IMO) offensive foul. 2 TOs out of nothing.

Apart from that, he played good D around the rim, harassing Wallace and the Blazers who drove the lane during his limited minutes.

Hinrich was very, very solid and we can simply concentrate on his drawn charge with just over a minute to go as the type of play he usually brings day in day out and that we hope he can consistently show for us.

He had a couple of miss cues but these were mainly due to lack of knowledge of the team’s offense.

Much better game by Josh even struggling with his shot: his hands were active, he fought for rebounds, contested shots and tried to get his game inside.

How many times have we seen before Josh compensate poor offensive outings with a strong performance on D and on the little things that win games? IMO, not too many.

The typical Josh gets disinterested when his offensive game is not clicking. Not last night.

JJ had a very good overall game, poaching the lanes and playing steady D after being caught asleep at the start of the game a few times.

Man, what a pleasure was to see us play like this… but tonight is a fundamental game.

We need to play with the same intensity and get us another win on a road so we can come back with a 4-3 record and a good momentum to face the tough schedule ahead of us.

If we play like last night, from an intensity level point of view, I think we can survive this difficult stretch and maybe get us some solid wins against winning ball clubs.

Let’s see…

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“Josh said. “Kirk is a hard-nosed defender. And you have definitely got to tip your hat off to Teague, who was definitely thrown in the fire after really not playing a whole lot. He’s really been handling it well.”

Even Josh admits that Teague hasn’t played that much and applaud his good play after being thrust into the rotation (which a lot of us was asking LD to do), not from a fire being lit under his butt from the trade of Bibby…

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Melvin,

I think both factors affected Teague. He realizes he has an opportunity to get more PT, so he has worked harder. With Bibby, I think he felt no matter what he did, he wouldn’t get PT, and rather than work harder to prove LD wrong, he went into a shell.

And now with more confidence and more PT, he is playing more relaxed and playing better.

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Melvin, where does Josh say why Teague is handling it well? Likewise, where does Josh say why he wasn’t playing a whole lot before? He doesn’t in either case. He provided a statement based entirely of known facts… dude didn’t get a lot of playing time before and is playing well now. No mention of poor coaching, poor time allocation, new motivation, new sense of urgency, removal of Bibby… none of that.

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Interesting, the Bulls may be adding Rasual Butler in the next day or two. You have to like their collection of wings (Deng, Korver, Brewer, Butler & Bogans) in combination with Rose, Boozer and Noah. That is a very versatile team (when healthy). If they can keep Butler from being in “heat check” mode, that may be a really nice add for that team.

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Melvin, I think that he meant that dude didn’t play much and now he is playing. I take it for nothing more than a “news report”. If Bibby broke his ankle and Teague was “thrown in the fire” he could have made the identical statement 5 weeks ago.

Now, is it possible that Josh thinks that Teague should have been allowed to play through mistakes (considering Josh’s history of playing through mistakes)? Probably. But do I think that the other captains believe the same thing? I think that is less likely. So I don’t think there was a universal cry for the past few months for Teague to play more from his teammates. I actually think that if Teague was looking like a clear contributor to this team during the first 50 games, we would have heard it. “An unnamed player is wondering why Teague, who is a defensive terror in practices, isn’t getting more time in real games”.

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yes o’b, i just said the same on the other blog. i might be comfortable with it kirk, jamal, jj, josh and al as well if you need jamal there. not sure what they were playing last night as they fumbled it away, didnt watch. that “fumbling” tendency is a trend i would like to see reversed.

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Jordan Crawford article;

Crawford didn’t literally mean that everything he learns is meaningless if he doesn’t get a chance to show it off in game action. He credits lessons learned from Jamal Crawford, Mike Bibby and Hawks assistant coach Nick Van Exel (”like Sam Cassell here” is how he described him) for working with him in practice extensively.

“I had Nick Van Exel in Atlanta. It was good for me,” he said. “But as a person, I just feel like games is where you really get better.”.

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2011/2/28/2019630/jordan-crawford-wizards-hawks-mavericks/

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If I’m Bibby, I’m going to Boston. Miami already has Eddie House, Mario Chalmers and Carlos Arroyo.

Boston just traded away Nate Robinson, so there may be more minutes there. Also, Boston is a more veteran team, and if healthy, I think they have a better chance of winning the East.

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Ray,

No way Bibby ends up here. From what I’ve read, if the Hawks sign anybody before March 12, they will be over the luxury tax.

And I dont think Bibby will want to come here, because the team chose Hinrich over him, and Teague has played good enough to warrant more minutes. If Bibby wants to be a third string guard, he will do it for a championship contender like Miami or Boston (imo).

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O’B,

The Hawks couldn’t sign Bibby before March 25 even if they wanted to because of the 30-day waiting period rule.

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If memory serves me correctly, Speedy started to complain that he was healthy but wasn’t playing in his last few weeks on the Hawks. If a player isn’t playing and isn’t complaining, then that is a major problem.

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I hope Bibby goes to Boston…I would go to LA(They have taller “Bigs”.

If he goes to boston, Teague could then pressure him full court(Lol)….Also watch him try to defend the Pick-n-roll(Lol)….GO AHEAD BOSTON, PICK UP BIBBY!!!

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Bibby signs with Heat per ESPN.

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Corey would be nice for us. If only we bought out Jamal…

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@ Astro Joe

I think Josh Powell deserves some meaningful PT as well.

When it comes to it only these people on the team will be playoff ready those are JC1, Marvin, Horford, Johnson, Smith, probably Hinrich too. That’s just 6 people.

That to me is horrible can’t win with just 6 people got to have all 12 committed to being ready. I know you can have 15 players on roster, but still only 12 will be playing.

Besides that though with only 6 people being truly ready that leaves the others out high and dry cause can you actually blame Zaza or Powell for not showing up when they don’t get much time, or can you blame Teague for not being Rondo when he’s not given a legit chance(I know he’s played pretty good past couple). I just wish against a team like say Minnesota Win or lose L.D just lets the bench players get the most burn and rest our starters.

There is a reason the starters disappear in the playoffs especially joe the entire season has taking it’s toll on them come playoff time. So because of that you have last season drubbing by the Magic, and then the season before with the Cavs.

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I’m surprised Bibby waived his salary for next year. $6.2 mil is alot of money for him to give up, because at his age, and with his play declining, and a new CBA, I dont think he will make that money back next year.

From hoopshype;

Brian Windhorst: With several teams chasing Bibby (esp. Portland) it wouldn’t be a surprise if Heat promised Bibby he’ll eventually be the starter at PG. Twitter.

How bad is Miami’s PG situation that Bibby might be the starter?

Chris Tomasson: One agent called it “crazy” Mike Bibby giving up all $6.2 million salary for next year. Said he’s a minimum player so would lose $5 mil. Twitter.

Well, it looks like Rick is off the hook for next year

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doc, I bet you the properties of the ASG will be “priced to move”. Once Gearon decided to take the sale beyond the inner circle of the NHL/NBA hallways, he clearly wanted someone to take one or more of these properties off his hands. My guess is they won’t do the hard-core negotiations that seemingly have taken place in the Pistons sale process. I just hope the firm they hired to help them with the sale process don’t “botch” anything. Maybe they can use Legal Zoom to get another opinion before signing anything this time.

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Ray, guys like Zaza and Powell know what the playoffs are all about. Most teams go with a 7-8 man rotation in the playoffs. IMO, playing time (now or later) won’t be the thing that keeps this team form post-season success. What is the saying? Something about rearranging deck-chairs on the Titanic?

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doc, they announced that they are looking for more investors but it is a little hard to believe that someone with a lot of cheddar would take a minority stake with these guys. And also hard to believe that they would find someone willing to only buy the Thrashers and keep them in Atlanta. So my guess is they will either sell the Thrashers by themselves (and they get moved to Canada) or they sell a majority share of everything to another group and try to keep the teams here. And by majority share, I’m guessing 60%+.

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Sund also said that after not trading Jamal Crawford’s expiring contract the Hawks would attempt to re-sign him: “I’ve said from Day One I’m a big fan of Jamal. Once we figure out what the new [CBA] rules are we will do everything in our power to re-sign him.”.

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Here’s a shocker:

ajchawks Michael Cunningham
#Hawks GM Sund says team unlikely to sign any of waived/bought out vets

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LD said that he doesn’t want to get into a track meet tonight… that may impede Teague’s effectiveness.

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Yeah Josh….

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Well least see if ZaZa can play well for two straight games…

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Melvin, at least for tonight, what are his other options?

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My badd, i didnt realize Hinrich was out for tonight’s game.

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Damn, Zaza… Birdman blocked that back to Atlanta.

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Al needs more FGAs if the Hawks are going to win tonight.

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The Hawks are not going to have anything left in the tank for Bulls on Wednesday…

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I dont know why LD thought he could play Al and Joe so many mins on a back to back game in Denver of all places…

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strain MCL…. he got kick in the knee area in the 2nd qtr…

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Sund should had included Ethan in the trade with the Wizards. Especially since we gave up Jordan. It would have free up enough money to sign a player to the vet min for the rest of the season…. Dang it.

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Astro,

I did not watch the game (yet) but Teague is 22 and has not played that much. If there is someone who has the legs to play 45 minutes its Teague.

Teague posted a +6, the best in the whole team since Smoove’s +6 does not count due to his limited play.

What is there to understand about this?

This is the 1000th time LD plays Jamal part of the 3rd quarter (to close it) and the whole 4th quarter.

The results have been abysmal, so WTF?

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Did not see the second half. But it sounds like a winnable game if we had Hinrich and Josh for the whole game.

But from the comments and the box score, Marvin had 14 shot attempts (making 4), while Al only had 15 (making 10)? LD needs to find a way to get Al more shots, especially in the 4th.

I know LD’s first plan is to go to JJ, but teams are aware of that, so we must be ready to adjust.

I guess we saw Bad Marvin tonight (even Teague outrebounded him). It looks like Teague played well on defense, but struggled on offense. And 2-19 from 3’s as a team…were they open shots, or were they good looks that we missed?

Hawks might want to invest in a 3rd PG, because if HInrich gets banged up occasionally, then LD will have to go with Jamal at PG for extended stretches, and that is usually a bad thing.

If the Hawks take care of business at home, there is a slight chance they could move up to 3rd (especially if they beat the Bulls all 3 games). Hopefully Hinrich will be ready to D up Rose on Wednesday.

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Marvin spent most of his night defending Chandler and Afflalo 20 feet from the basket, that is one of the reasons he didn’t get many rebounds. His offensive problem was pretty consistent with most of his teammates, he got jumper happy. He had a nice hard drive or two in the first half but then settled for the rest of the night. Joe was the only one who seemed to consciously want to get in the paint, and even he started to settle in the last few possessions. (Josh acted like there was a fungus in the paint during the first half). Last road game of a long road trip that included some emotional anxiety when a good friend was sent away (not to mention missing 2 of their top 5 players when Josh went down in the 2nd half). I expect them to bounce back Wednesday after geting some well-deserved rest.

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My bad, the trade happened before the Phoenix game… so Teague is shooting 28% since the trade (7/25). I change my mind, go ahead and play him 20-24 minutes each and every game.

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vava, there are no absolutes and there are times when LD has limited options due to injury and match-ups. Again, I’m not saying that I would play Jamal extensive minutes in every game (my opinion on Jamal is well documented including before he put on a Hawks uniform), but last night he needed to be out there.

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i just hate it when we lose to a team with an over rated coach, especially when they seem to do everything right to take advantage of us.

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vava, really, you do love the plus minus numbers? was marvin a star the other night in a loss where he was plus 8 with no obvious contributions in the box score, maybe 2 points and 4 rebounds where we were trashed? i think it was the suns game. or is it a function of who you appear with in the court like the second teamers, that on our team really suck because we dont have depth and they show up about one of four games, that last were burned by their second teamers 44-17? would jj look as inept if he had to spend more time with damien and zaza on the court both minus 10″s or is it really all about jamal and he brings the worst out in all of his teammates? plus minus works in hockey maybe, it is absolutely worthless in basketball when you focus only on the number and forget the context.

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vava, let me summarize, you really love the plus/minus and really hate (on) jamal. heh heh

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no vava, i dont think folks are sympathetic at all about what karl does and has done well his career, not me anyway and others that watch him coach a game that i have talked with. he does coach; some decisions work, some dont, and in him, by his record, more work than not. he has managed melo and albatross iverson and gotten the most out of them, won with them, now he has a young team and seemed quite fired up to the challenge if you took the time to listen to the clip on him i provided the night of the trade. since you feel he maybe only a sympathetic character you might have not watched.

no, just so you dont think it is man love, i dont think he is a pleasant man at all nor sympathetic or wants yours or anyone else’s but he is a hell of a coach if not great. wish he were here instead of woody and LD. he makes chicken salad out of chicken poop well as they dont spend with the big boys but he gets a lot out of his bench. pleasant/likable doesnt win games. doubt dr phil is too pleasant either and maybe just a bit condescending but it works. however, karl is very thoughtful on his illness and his role as a coach from what i have listened to.

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vava not sure but if it is done right then the plus minus should be reflected in all those guys on the floor as they finish the games. i find it interesting that the major contributors tot he minus ast noght and in most nights is how the bench gets trashed or in the poor OVERALL performances in the fourth quarter as the team does its metamorphosis into the team we all love to hate that o’b talks about every night. it isnt just jamal but all the guys choking like dogs and playing selfishly. it is dr jekyll and mr hyde night after night. go back a check it out when jamal was out, as it happened those games, too. we didnt all of a sudden solve that problem when he was hurt did we?

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doc,

I know Karl for long since he coached Real Madrid in the spanish league before getting back to the USA.

Now, just like then, he was a very good coach, but not great.

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ok vava, common ground, never said he was great, only one of the better and more entertaining coaches to watch during games. incidentally collins was doing some schooling the other night against the hawks and was really working to get elton b to do something or understand a concep even during a blowout, better yet brand very receptive. i like to watch how coaches do their thing and karl along with adelman among the lesser gods of coaching, seem to all along and get a lot from nothing, year after year.

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When Hinrich starts, and Teague comes off the bench with Jamal, it will be interesting to see how he plays on offense, because Jamal will dominate the ball.

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nire,

I think Teague will get there. The difference between shooting well and not is minimal in his case. His mechanics are ugly but within its ugliness, consistent in form and with the potential to generate hits (as opposed to guys whose shot mechanics are erratic (like Josh – although improving now) or when consistent but really bad (guys who shoot flat).

A simple example: against the Blazers his shots were not all bad:

His 3 point attempt was almost in. Not a terrible miss.

His botched lay up which Josh dunked was not that bad (as neither was the layup Al dunked in PHO).

The shot in the first half to the top of the glass against the Blazers was horrible and a clear sign that he was afraid of Camby.

Against GS Teague missed two three pointers, but one was an half court hail-mary and the other was perfectly in line but short.

I think Teague’s issues are mostly due to lack of experience and being too afraid to take the shots. He does not look loose.

Since he was fearless – or at least he looked fearless – in college, there is a pretty decent margin for us to believe that he will improve once his confidence goes up.

Also, even though his shot is off, he gets to the line – where he is very solid – and that is better than just hitting shots and not getting any fouls on the opposing players.

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Vava,

Don’t forget Sefolosha…

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“There is a reason why Jamal never played a playoff game until he came to ATL.”

You are correct, he was not on a playoff TEAM. Notice the word TEAM. It’s funny how you continue to trash players individually like basketball is not a team game.

“I bet that during your “playing career” you were also about individual stats, dunks, macho man bravado and all that earns money but not wins.”

Please don’t make that bet.

“I also note that you mention Marvin, yet again, when I did not. Talk about fixation.”

For good reason, he’s the bum, not Jamal. If you don’t want Jamal in the game at the end of the game, then who would be the first guy off the bench to replace him. I would think that would be Marvin.

Is Kevin Love a loser also? He’s never won or gotten his team to the playoffs either.

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Rod,

You continue to dig holes which go deeper and deeper.

Jamal is not highly regarded in the league – certainly not as a starter – hence he was traded many times and not in exchange for any type of powerhouse players.

Heck, we signed him for AC Law and Speedy’s expiring contract.

Jamal is talented individually but he one plays one way basketball (offense) AND even there he plays mostly on his own.

Is he gifted and talent? Heck yes, but its a team’s sport and Jamal does not play “organized team basketball”.

Maybe his lack of college experience robbed him from improving his team fundamentals but the fact is that Jamal is what he is: a great individual talent which is disruptive and cannot warrant in a team with aspirations more than 20 minutes of day light.

Marvin is a huge disappointment, uncoordinated, poor fundamentals, … whatever, whoever you can count on him being disciplined on D and that wins more games than reckless “on-off” offense with ZERO defense.

On Kevin Love:

Love has been on the league for 3 years and I am sure that he is deemed untradeable by Minny and will get a maximum extension.

Jamal got to the playoffs only on his 10th year.

Also, Love is a huge defensive liability: no lateral movement. Nonetheless, he is a much more accomplished team basketball player than Jamal will ever be.

The fact that he loves rebounding and is averaging 15.5 without very good physical tools is incredible. I wish Smoove looked at him as an example to follow instead of being a poor man’s Rasheed (namely, the older Rasheed without his early career low post moves).

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Astro,

Wrong. Jamal is not a playmaker, does not defend and cannot improve on either front after 10 years in the league.

He is what he is, shoot first, shoot second and shoot third kind of player.

Look at what happened when Jamal played PG to close games. Low scoring quarters, jump shots and more jump shots.

The conclusion that Jamal on the floor produces more points for the Hawks or points enough to overcome his lack of D is completely wrong and you have witnessed this many many many times.

I have no quarrel nor any agenda against Jamal, I simply see that he is being overused by a mile.

20 mpg on average tops and I am already conceding. That would be enough for him to produce 10/12ppg easily without hurting us.

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vava, 96 minutes for the backcourt. I would probably allocate 32 for Hinrich, 30 for Joe (another 6 at SF), 24 for Jamal and 10 for Teague.

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18 for Jamal subbing JJ is more than enough for me. absolutely no PG play for him.

Also, his 18 minutes should come partly with Hinrich on the floor.

Hence, whenever it was necessary to bring Jamal in early, JJ would move to the SF slot.

When I played Teague at the point, I would look to split his 16 minutes of day light with Jamal and JJ along side him simply because I trust JJ to give Teague the necessary defensive pointers to keep him working well on D and on offense I think JJ can be much more team oriented than Jamal.

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Astro, the two wins without Bibby – with the corresponding upgrade on the defensive performance – already placed Ken in a catatonic state of bliss…

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Ken on Bibby

Me on Jamal

Rod on Marvin

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is that where he went?

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Rod,

Please don’t miss the “NOT”, OK?

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“Marvin is a huge disappointment, uncoordinated, poor fundamentals, … whatever, whoever you can count on him being disciplined on D and that wins more games than reckless “on-off” offense with ZERO defense.”

Yeah. I remember a bunch of games that Marvin helped is win in the 4th quarter by defending the other teams best player (LOL). I don’t ever remember Jamal helping us win any games because of his scoring ability in the 4th quarter (LOL). Today must be opposite day.

“A very good one: Al Harrington. That guy is ultra talented but again he is not a team player and his talent did not produce wins for his teams.”

I don’t need you to give me examples of players like Jamal, I’ve already given you the perfect example, Vinnie Johnson. He win a championship by the way. Both their jobs are to come off the bench and score. You continue to say all these bad thing about Jamal, but can’t understand that his last two coaches continue to play him extended minutes because he is doing his job, which is to shoot. Don’t you think that if he was doing something that he was not supposed to be doing, both coaches would take him out of the game. Drew nor Woodson, had no loyalty to Jamal Crawford “the loser” as you say. If he misses shots, that’s one thing, but his job is to do exactly what you criticize him for doing.

“Also, Love is a huge defensive liability: no lateral movement. Nonetheless, he is a much more accomplished team basketball player than Jamal will ever be.

OK. (LOL)

“The fact that he loves rebounding and is averaging 15.5 without very good physical tools is incredible. I wish Smoove looked at him as an example to follow instead of being a poor man’s Rasheed (namely, the older Rasheed without his early career low post moves).”

Why should Smoove look to Kevin Love as an example to follow. Two totally different players. Body types are not the same. Love is easily 20 pounds heavier than Smoove. He is a great rebounder, but Josh is a great shot blocker and defender. Josh has as many strengths as Love has, and he has been in the League much longer. The question is, Is Love a loser? Or another question is, was KG a loser when he played for the Timberwolves? They never won anything either. Since TMac and Jamal are losers in your book because they never won anything, why would Love and Garnett (Minn), or Ray Allen(he is terrible defensively also) in Seattle not be losers?

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rofl @ vava @ 2:27.

watch out aj that type of thinking, um or not, might brand you for life.

i will never live down yi. it would have been dreadfully boring if i hadnt talked him up. i remember you getting into the marketing thing as well. still might have brought some moolah to the hawks in jersey sales to up the budget and hire a first line coach and get a big. well we could hope right with the askg.

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well this month of basketball will hopefully bring out the fans with the visitor line up being very impressive. fans need to come out and it might be a difference. the home schedule has been mediocre at best thus far and i hope that is more what we are seeing instead of complete fan apathy.

looking forward to tomorrow night with some apprehension. these are not the bulls of recent past. TT has done a job on them it seems. remember no lateral moves in players then why did sund go with a lateral move on coaches? you never know with this management group, do we?

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I think attendance will pick up during the second half of the season. The flipside of having the NBA’s easiest schedule for the first half of the season is that we also had the NBA’s worst drawing cards. Of course, in most cities, attendance doesn’t vary so much based on who’s in town…

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Rod,

You are delusional

“Yeah. I remember a bunch of games that Marvin helped is win in the 4th quarter by defending the other teams best player (LOL). I don’t ever remember Jamal helping us win any games because of his scoring ability in the 4th quarter (LOL). Today must be opposite day.”

Look at http://www.82games.com and see Jamal’s clutch stats last year.

Look up on popcornmachine the Hawks last 15 games or so and tell me in how many Jamal had good 4th quarter numbers and in particular on the ones he did have good 4th quarter numbers how many of those teams are playoff bound.

In relation to Marvin, I never mentioned that he defended the opposing team’s best player, just that he plays disciplined D. Marvin has the tools to be a very good defender, unfortunately he is not consistently very good. But on average he is a pretty good defender.

You obviously will not find many examples of Marvin helping us in the 4th quarter with his defense because:

a) He has not been playing since last year (inclusive) too many minutes in the 4th quarter (curiously enough, we had many many defensive and offensive meltdowns in the 4th quarter both last year and this year and… surprise surprise, who was playing instead of Marvin?… Jamal!
b) You are biased.

“I don’t need you to give me examples of players like Jamal, I’ve already given you the perfect example, Vinnie Johnson. He win a championship by the way. Both their jobs are to come off the bench and score.”

Bad example: Vinnie rebounded better, passed better, defended better and was a tough guy. Jamal just shoots and is soft.

Also, Vinnie, averaged only around 23 minutes per game as a sub during DET’s best years (his minutes averages were slightly higher than 23 in some years due to many starts to compensate injuries to DET’s backcourt starters).

“You continue to say all these bad thing about Jamal, but can’t understand that his last two coaches continue to play him extended minutes because he is doing his job, which is to shoot. Don’t you think that if he was doing something that he was not supposed to be doing, both coaches would take him out of the game. Drew nor Woodson, had no loyalty to Jamal Crawford “the loser” as you say. If he misses shots, that’s one thing, but his job is to do exactly what you criticize him for doing.”

Say what? Since when coaching options from Mr. Potato – I don’t give a damn about offense – Head and LD are supposed to be a benchmark on how Jamal should be used? You are really delusional?

Also, I already made clear that I would not mind keeping Jamal IF LD limited his minutes to an average of 18/20 and strictly as an instant offense player. If he is hot, keep him in until he misses and if he is cold, take him out and try again later, if he continues cold, keep him out (limit his minutes – see notes on Vinnie above).

Another factor, Jamal usually makes his damage mostly during the first and second quarters. I have deliberately checked this on a consistent basis since half way last year. His performance to close the 3rd and 4th quarters are FAR from being as good you dream to be.

“Why should Smoove look to Kevin Love as an example to follow. Two totally different players. Body types are not the same. Love is easily 20 pounds heavier than Smoove. He is a great rebounder, but Josh is a great shot blocker and defender.”

Whoaa!! Weight is not what makes Love a good rebounder, WILL is. Love wants to rebound and makes sure that he does his best as doing that. Josh has all the tools to be a 11rpg rebounder even with Al averaging 10rpg. He simply does not focus on that.

Also, Josh is a GOOD HELP DEFENDER. And it ends there. Man to man, Josh is completely ON-OFF. Not only he lacks some lateral speed, some savvy and awareness but also he is seldom concentrated on his job.

“Josh has as many strengths as Love has, and he has been in the League much longer. The question is, Is Love a loser? Or another question is, was KG a loser when he played for the Timberwolves? They never won anything either.”

Calm down! Love is – for the moment – a player on the rise. I don’t know how he will perform from now on. As I said, 3 years only, however, if his D does not improve significantly his teams WILL STRUGGLE in spite of his rebounding.

As for KG, he had a reputation of choking – big time – in the 4th and I saw many examples of that. Intense, multi-talented, dedicated, … you name it, but he folded under pressure many times, hence his many first round defeats.

His teams, IMO, were always inferior to T-Mac’s, and once he had a decent team he went to the WCF and lost 4-2 to the Lakers whilst losing the starting and the reserve PG. That performance already detaches him from T-Mac.

I would never consider Garnett a “GREAT” (IMO, not as good as Duncan, for instance) and the fact that he won a ring in BOS does not change that. An excellent and very complete player, highly competitive but needed the help to overcome his choking habits.

“Since TMac and Jamal are losers in your book because they never won anything, why would Love and Garnett (Minn), or Ray Allen(he is terrible defensively also) in Seattle not be losers?”

I never said that TMac and Jamal are losers “because they never won anything”, ITS BECAUSE HOW THEY PLAY(ED). The fact that they did not win anything is the consequence of that fact.

My goodness, Allen is terrible defensively? Where have you been? Just as an example, Allen has played D on Kobe like few have EVER… You can’t place Allen and Jamal on the same sentence, you simply can’t!

Allen may be a shooter but he is – and always has been – a disciplined player, a guy who thrives within A SYSTEM.

It’s pretty obvious that your perception of the game is completely different than mine.

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Ray,

Blog monster retrieval please.

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Whitlock: an always interesting read:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/nba-can-be-saved-with-radical-plan-030111

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Big Ray,

I believe it , because since he has come to the Hawks, Jamal has been a consistent scorer for this team. I don’t look at one or two games, or one bad month. Sorry to tell you, but the NBA does not work that way. So if Kevin Durant has a bad month shooting, should his coach pull him, and replace him with a guy who can play defense but can’t score. I agree Jamal has been struggling, but he’s a shooter, and shooter’s should keep shooting. What if Ray Allen stopped shooting because he went 1-15 in the championship game. Your stroke comes and goes, and if you prove yourself in this league to be a scorer, I can’t think of many coaches in the history of the game that would pull you for Marvin Williams, especially on a team that can’t score in the 4th quarter. You put Marvin in crunch time, and you think our scoring problems are bad, Joe will get triple teamed, Josh will shoot more Jumpers with under 5 seconds on the shot clock, and we will end up with more turnovers because Marvin is scared to shoot the open jumper. It’s a function of how the team is built that Jamal is in the game in crunch time. He and Joe, are the only guys who create their own shots.

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Otis Smith and SVG will both be gone this summer unless they make the ECF (which would be miraculous a this point).

Big Ray, so LD expects Josh to help space the floor, huh? One moment he benches him for poor shot selection and the next he is expected to be Rashard Lewis. Sometimes I wish our new coach would just STFU. I wonder if the players get as confused as I with his flip-flopping comments/actions.

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“No, it doesn’t mean that he should go out with the next load of trash but it does mean that he has a lot of work to do before he earns all of these minutes that some seem to believe he deserves (for no apparent reason other than he holds a roster spot on an NBA team). ”

Defense matters. Teague has been outstanding defensively over the last few games. He hasn’t been great offensively, but his shooting percentage has been more a result of not finishing at the rim (something he’ll probably get better at the more he plays and the more his confidence grows) than not making jump shots (he has attempted very few of them).

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In fairness to T-Mac, those Orlando teams he played on were flat out awful, especially when Grant Hill was injured (which was most of the time), and by the time he got to Houston nagging injuries were starting to rob him of his explosiveness. I don’t think he ever played on a team that by today’s standards would have provided him the kind of supporting cast that would have allowed him to win. Who knows whether or not he would have won with a better supporting cast, but he never really had the opportunity to prove it.

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Najeh,

The All-NBA teams are voted on by coaches, not sportswriters.

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And calling Smoove a poor man to man defender is accurate. Fratello used to comment on it every time the Hawks played on TNT. Lots of people comment on it. Josh is a great weakside defender, but he doesn’t move his feet well on the perimeter or establish his position in the post. He also gambles for steals and falls for head fakes pretty easily, although he has improved since a few years ago (when he really had nowhere to go but up in that regard). He also still does a terrible job closing out on shooters, which is why stretch PFs give him trouble.

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I still think Smoove is a good man to man defender in the post. On the perimeter, maybe not so much, but he is a natural PF, and his lack of lateral quickness is one of the many reasons I don’t think he’s well suited to play SF. We are used to seeing Horford hold his own defending on the perimeter, but Horford’s perimeter defense skills as a big man are the exception, not the rule.

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“And calling Smoove a poor man to man defender is accurate. Fratello used to comment on it every time the Hawks played on TNT.”

Iv’e never heard Fratello say that. Again I’ll take the coaches word over any guy blogging, who argued for what a good player Marvin Williams was. I’m sure that all the coaches in the league would not vote a poor man to man defender in as one of the best 10 defenders in the league. Especially one that plays for the Atlanta Hawks and is known for his complaining to the refs.

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Najeh/Ray,

The issue about Josh is not how good can he perform but how bad and desinterested man to man D he plays in manny occasions.

Virtually all of Josh’s shortcomings are directly connected with his erratic effort levels.

When he into the game 100% his defensive presence is good all over but good and sound defensive players don’t go AWOL as often as he does.

That is particularly evident on man to man D (where his lack of concentration/commitment hurts) rather than on help D where even on a bad day he always comes up with a highlight or two (block or perimeter steal) thus generating the appearance that he had a strong defensive outing.

I don’t judge Josh on potential anymore. I am through with that. He is old enough and experienced enough to take a step into maturity now or stay at this current and highly frustrating and unreliable level.

Hopefully Hinrich’s impact on the team will help him take that step allowing him to be more focused on his role.

I think Josh is one of the players that got more distracted and frustrated with all the Bibby related defensive problems.

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Vava ,

I find the team’s dependency on Josh’s defensive abilities far more disturbing than anything else. As you say, I hope that the recent personnel changes help that.

As for what you say about his weakside exploits generating the “appearance” that he had a good defensive night, I disagree completely. It is no coincidence that when he leaves the game, teams react differently on offense. You can poke holes in my opinion about that, no doubt, but how about that of an NBA coach?

http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2011/03/01/atlanta-hawks-nuggets-100-hawks-90/?cxntfid=blogs_hawks

To be fair, Hinrich and Smoove could have made a difference for the Hawks in the second half. Hinrich because he’s likely to help the Hawks work for better shots, Smith because when all else fails he can protect the rim.
“When I went out after the first half, and then Kirk not being able to go I think it hurt us a lot,” Smoove said.
“I think it helped a little bit by Josh not being in the second half,” George Karl said. “Still a solid win.”

I’ll never forget Doc Rivers and the Celtics talking about worrying where Josh Smith was on defense. Sorry, but defensive presence is clearly not an illusion.

I do agree that much of his defensive lapses are due almost entirely to effort. Even good teams have a rough time actually scheming for ways to score near the rim when he’s ini the game. And no passing lane is safe when he’s on his game and allowed to roam.

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Ray,

It is obvious that what said is not in any contradiction to the perception that the league has on Josh.

Every team has to be prepared to the good Josh (and he was good in Den) but too often that preparation is not tested when he is not fully into the game.

Read my post again and you’ll see what I mean.

As since you are talking about BOS, what about Josh’s man to man D in ATL against them when they blew us out of the water and Josh’s man to man D was exposed and he was humbled by Garnett?

Garnett went for 17pts on 8-10FG, with 11 boards, 5 assists, 1 stl, 1 block in 24 minutes of day light with the bulk being against Josh.

Josh posted the following line in 22min: 2 pts (on 0/3), 3 rebounds, 2 TO.

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I was really enjoying the debate/argumnent that was going on, along with DOC’s timely instigations, until my name got dragged into the mix. I’ll admit to being happy about us solving PART of our PG problem, but there’s a part of the problem that still remains. I believe LDrew is going to end up runnning Hinrich into the ground like he did Bibby.

It just stands to reason that if Drew would run Bibby into the ground, despite his DEF liabilities, OFF limitations, and low overall production, and refuse to address his obvious issues with fatigue, what else can we expect from him when he’s been given a PG that does most of what Bibby did and didn’t do well?

Yesterday I read a article that praised RSund for doing an outstanding job with that trade. After wondering what was done to make it so outstanding, I researched the trade and found out what he did. First, it appeared to be a general consensus that both MBibby and his salary were considered big liabilities, and moving them was considered a monumental task.

Knowing he had financial constraints, he managed to trade away $9.1M in salary and take back only $9.84M. With HArmstrong having an expiring contract, and Hinrich’s salary dropping from $9 to $8M next season, we’ll end up with about the same projected salary after all expiring contracts have been dropped and all salary increases have taken place.

We’ll have 8 players under contract, assuming we resign Sy, who’s salary isn’t guaranteed. I also think we need to do something about our SF position. Either LDrew has to do more than give lip service to his claims of needing to get him more touches, or he needs to replace him as a starter or as a Hawk.

LDrew’s demonstrated his bias against Teague when he said he wanted and expected more aggressiveness and consistency out of him before giving him more mins. Yet, when it came to vet’s MBibby and MWilliams, he never acknowledged he had any problem with their lack of aggressiveness and consistency, or showed a willingness to address it if he did.

Even though Teague is currently our starting PG, I’m certain he, just like everyone else, knows that Drew is itching for an excuse to bench him in favor of Hinrich.

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Strickland, an “excuse” to bench Teague? So are you saying that Hinrich was acquired to come off the bench and play a mentor role for Teague? Are you suggesting that last week’s trade was to acquire a back-up PG? I think that is what you are saying but I want to see you actually put it in writing.

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Let the conspiracy begin From MC’s new blog;

After coming off the bench for his first two games, new Hawks guard Kirk Hinrich will make his first start Wednesday night at Philips Arena. He’ll do it against his old team, the Chicago Bulls.

“I want him to get acclimated as fast as he can,” Drew said. “He’s going to be my starting point, so I kind of want to throw him not the fire and get him into a role that he’s going to be in for the remainder of the season.”.

Ken S,

Although I have been on the give Teagure more PT train, I find it hard to beleive that LD is looking for an excuse to send Teague to the bench.

Since the trade, Teague has played well enough (especially on defense) to warrant more consistent PT. LD has also given him a positive review since the trade. But I have no issues in making HInrich the starting PG.

The onus is on 2 people. 1)It’s on LD to find consistent PT for Teague coming off the bench and 2)It’s on Teague to play the same way off the bench like he has been doing with the starters.

We will see what happens tonight.

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Damn this is not the game to start Collins…

Noah is ultra mobile and Collins is suited to bang with heavy guys, not guys with springs on their feet.

I would play Al on Noah, Marvin on Boozer (and see if it worked) and start Wilkins at SF.

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One thing seems to pop out on Sy’s stats:

He attempted 95FTs in 23 games whilst averaging only 22 mpg.

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vava,

I think Collins will last the first 5 minutes, and then LD will bring in ZaZa. I will be surprised if Collins plays more than 15 minutes for the game.

Maybe this is a game to give Hilton Armstrong a few minutes to see what he can do.

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Come on, where’s the rally cry to start Josh Powell or Hilton Armstrong?

Seriously. tonight we need a superstar-type ffort from Joe, especially if he won’t have to guard Rose for most of the game. And yes, I understand that Bogans and Brewer are both good defenders, but we need Joe to be Super Joe tonight.

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I’m scratching my head at the decision to start Collins tonight too. I feel like that opens up a good-size risk of the Bulls getting off to a running start. Rather see Zaza in there, especially after he stepped it up on the boards in the past couple games.

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starting collins reminds me of the effort to use ivey as a starter since we didnt have a real no. 1 starting point guard to keep the “rotations” intact the first 5 minutes of a game so we could get to our back up point. collins might last as long as he did against utah, i think it was, when he got rung up there.

look we need some real bigs on the bench. whatever happened to the other josh? isnt he the guy who should be pushed into this role? agree with marvin at the 4 as well maybe with jj at three tonight. still think as marvin ages and matures he will be better as a back up pf than a 3 all of his career. i think that is his problem anyway as he cant really ball at three and has not developed anything along the way to get better.

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Thanks for reminding me, doc

Josh’s jumpers watch update:

vs. GS: 5-10 (1-2 on 3s)
vs. Por: 0-6 (0-3 on 3s)
vs. Den: 4-7 (0-1 on 3s)

Total: 9-23 (1-6 on 3s)
FG%: .391
eFG%: .413
eFG% vs. season avg: -.019
vs. ’09-’10 avg: +.128
—————————————————
If there ever was a good time for Josh to miss a game, it was now. He was starting to get a bit too jumper happy. Every attempt against Denver was a jumper from 10+ feet away from the basket. Over the past 5 games, the percentage of his shots that have been jumpers has climbed to over 70%. That’s what you expect from a SG, not a PF.

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Josh’s eFG% on jumpers outside 10 feet this season now stands at .431 (unadjusted FG% is .381), and 52% of his shot attempts have been outside 10 feet. I suspect those shooting percentages would be lower if short-range jumpers were included, because Josh actually has done as bad or worse on 6-10 foot and 10-15 jumpers in the past than he has on 16+ foot jumpers in past seasons (likely due to the fact that those shots are more often contested).

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there is always a bright side. heh heh

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AJ,

The tax threshold is set based on the previous season’s revenues, not the current season’s – they announced it on July 1, the same day that the salary cap for this season was announced. They do it that way teams have certainty as to what the tax threshold will be when they make their offseason moves.

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I have no problem with starting Hinrich, seeing as how he was acquired to be the starter. But I hope this doesn’t mean Teague falls out of the rotation again like he did when LD overused Bibby. More bench minutes for Teague and less minutes for Jamal seems like the right way to go, especially when the Hawks are facing an opponent against whom they need defense more than offense at the point guard position.

Marvin and Damien are in for a challenging night — not because of Brewer and Bogans, but because of Kyle Korver, who plays a lot of minutes for them and plays a huge role in their offense. Those two (and to a lesser extent Joe) are going to have to contest every shot Korver takes, or else it’s going to be a long game for the Hawks.

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One more thing. Don’t ever worry about hurting my feelings of getting me upset. Feel free to say what you think and mean what you say, because like DOC said, I’ve been on these blogs too long to cop and attitude. While my judgement about Bibby and his effect on the team was correct, it doesn’t mean I won’t be totally wrong the next time around.

That’s why I can’t afford to be offended by anyone who disagrees with me. Well, that and the fact I’ve disagreed with some of you enough that I can’t afford to cop an attitude or hurt feelings.

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Ken S,

Teague just started 3 games. Would you classify any of them as breakout games?

He played well on defense, and he did some nice things on offense, but he did not have a breakout game (imo).

So why do you think he would hve a breakout game against D. Rose and a team that’s ranked top 2 in defense?

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Ken S,

Since Teague was relegated to the bench, hopefully that will keep his fire burning, because he should be motivated to show LD that he is capable of holding down a starting spot.

From hoopshype;

Alex Kennedy: Eddy Curry is telling those close to him that he’ll eventually sign with the Miami Heat. He has to sign before final day of regular season. Twitter.

Eddy Curry? Why would Miami want him?

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Prediction:
We play a decent game and lose by 12.

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that’s a charge!

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Please, please get Collins out of there. He can’t do us any good against the Bulls.

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Starting Collins is like allowing the Bulls to have the 1st qtr lead…
It will be an uphill battle for the Hawks tonight.

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My goodness, Hawks playing zone already….

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we could have started a lot better if we had not started Collins…

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That’s maybe the frustrating thing about the Hawks when they get in these ruts. There are no 1 or 2 players or even 1 or 2 problems that you can identify as being the cause. It used to be that the whole team would get despondent at this point. Tonight, they panicked. Frankly, I prefer the panicking, because at least then you’re giving an effort (even if it’s completely unfocused). Easier to get back to normal by playing too out-of-control than by just going soft and heaving jumpers.

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you gotta hand it to Thibs. These guys are playing focused and very crisp.

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But, I am not excessively worried.

We miss Josh and Hinrich is still trying to get in sync.

We both of them in/clicking the game would be different.

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Hilton looks like he’s asleep. He is known to be lazy underachiever.

Another one which needs to find his inner dog…

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the crowd is cheering for the Bulls…

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Vava,

What else is new?

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you can lose games but you need to fight back with other factors. little reminders for the future.

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Like I said, it’s going to be an uphill battle…

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Hawks need to sign Al Thronton. They did good getting rid of Bibby but now it’s time to find Marvin replacement. Thronton is a much better scorer than Marvin. Trying to mask Marvin deficiencies with Jamal/Damien is not going to work in the playoffs. They need a true SF that can score, help space the floor, handle the ball and have decent size.

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sorry for the typos and grammar errors and omissions

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Nire,

Can you give us Marvin jump shot stats for the past 3-5 games? I’m thinking he may be shooting worse than Josh…

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who cares about Marvin. we are used to him under performing. JJ is playing like cr*p… and he is they guy who had to step up tonight

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dang, deng’s 3 was a killer now…

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marvin is, on offense, the shortest 6′9” player in the nba…

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LD should have let Joe rest for the remainder of the qtr

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How the hell was that not a foul??

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But without Josh is difficult to have an effective rotation down low…

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get Hinrich on the floor pronto… we cannot let Rose get comfy on Jamal

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Bob almost had a heart attack after Marvin block Rose…

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and the foul?

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heck yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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JJ, Marv, and Kirk had miserable shooting nights. But we do NOT win this game without their D.

Twenty game balls to Al.

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Take the win and get the hell outta there….

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Great play call by LD on that pick and roll play with Jamal and Al. Jamal looked like a play-maker on that one, huh? And Marvin now has a signature play… that wicked block on Derrick Rose down the stretch of a game. Followed shortly by a big 30ball. Helluva game!

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Also, a great game by Jamal who was perfect on that pick and roll.

Tonight he limited his typical mistakes (did not force too many shots) and made a true effort on D as he had done already in POR during the first half.

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Not much I can say that hasn’t already been said….It’s damn good to be a HAWKS fan right now, AL for MVP. Can’t wait for the durantula on Fri – will be there cheering on the birds.

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Ken,

You are right, but I think only to a point. We did not start well, so definitely there was something missing on the preparation.

However, the fact is that to start the second half the same line up worked and indeed Collins played Boozer well during his second shift.

Huge difference between LD and Woody: that pick and roll play designed for Al was a thing of beauty: a pick under the basket, Al gets free from Noah, sets the pick for Jamal and then rolls for the dunk. Man, that was poetry in motion!

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just back from the phillips. a lot of noise tonight from both sides like a high school game. fun baby.

al was a hoss. collins held his own tge third quarter when ww made the big cpmeback holding tgen to about two poibts the first six minutes. however it is not good for your center and sf to have one rebound midway through the third quarter. love seeing hinrich out there. even if he makes a mistake he gets pissed at himself. like wilkens and prefer him ovee marvin.

felt bad for teague but he ran right into the teeth of the bulls over and over. his body language said so much as he left the court like a wounded dog.

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Heckava a comeback, and Hinrich has truly made a difference in our defensive play. The one downside is the Teague era is officially over…he’ll only see sporadic minutes from here on out.

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Huh?

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So I heard Durant may have hurt his ankle last night and could potentially miss Friday’s game against the Good Guys.

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Nice to see a positive story from Hollinger (for a change). And who was saying that Toney Douglas would have been a good draft pick for the Hawks? Oh yeah, ME! Ha!

http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-110303/daily-dime

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Nire,

Damn the Huh, we needed a Ding….

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yeah aj props, i thought that earlier today and whenever his name pops up.

also thought the ding was more to the point than a huh. maybe there was too much shock to the post to go beyond the incredulous response. i was left keyboardless, fingers paralyzed, when i read it earlier and am sorry to have let us down on that one. .

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Check out LD’s interview from this morning. Interesting comments about Horford’s more vocal leadership last night. I hope that continues and isn’t strictly a result of battling Joakim Noah (and Josh’s absence).

http://www.790thezone.com/instantreplay/Episodes.aspx?PID=1345

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Great win last night, didn’t see any of it, but I hope to watch it later!

Finally watched the Denver game and really got a better understanding of Jeff’s game. He doesn’t have a great feel for getting the team in the right position to score. He can start the offensive but I don’t think he has a good feel for who needs to shoot and when. I think if he continues to get minutes he will get use to the speed of the game. At that point I think his floater will be fine and also his jumpshot. The feel for the game will take a lot longer. His defense is solid and his speed does effect the game. I still would like to see him start more games, but I understand that Kirk cost us Jordan and a 1st so he has to start.

Great Win!!

GO HAWKS!

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We took a lot of jump shots last night because that’s what the Bulls wanted us to do, and they’re big enough inside and good enough defensively to make it happen. The played a lot of zone and packed it in inside. We were definitely challenged whenever we tried to go inside.

What’s so great about how we won last nights win is the way we turned the tables on them, by forcing them to become a jump shooting team in the 2nd half. I’ve known for sometime that our poor perimeter DEF was the cause of our DEF problems, but I still seem to have under estimated it’s overall effects.

We have become a totally different team, and you can see the confidence swelling. We aren’t getting any more scoring and assists from the combination of Teague and Hinrich than we got from the combination of Teague and Bibby. But the Hinrich and Teague combination has made certain that opposing PG’s aren’t getting anywhere near their normal production as well.

We are now SWITCHING and RECOVERING, rather than SWITCHING and COVERING UP. The addition of Hinrich and Armstrong have made us quicker, faster, more athletic and versatile. Once Hinrich and Armstrong learn our OFF/DEF systems and their teammates, we’ll become a team that nobody will want to face in the playoffs.

We’re now equipped to whip Orlando even if they have home court advantage.

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