Teague’s time may have finally come
Go ahead. Say “I told you so.” Two games is a small sample, but second year man Jeff Teague may finally have seen his ship come in. With the trade of Mike Bibby to the Washington Wizards, along with the arrival of veteran point guard Kirk Hinrich, many of us wondered if Jeff Teague’s “role” with the Hawks was going to change or not. So far, it has, and in semi-dramatic fashion.
Here Comes “The Pest”
It was kind of hard sometimes, watching Jeff Teague play in spurts in the early season. He would come onto the court and show that he had another gear beyond everyone else in some games. In others, he played like he knew he would be yanked within two minutes. Where was the consistency? At the same time, the same could be asked of Head Coach Larry Drew, who would compliment Teague after a good game, then inexplicably assign him a DNP or play him in spare, all but useless minutes. Stop me if you’ve heard this one before….
It seemed that Larry Drew had embraced the idea of going with shooting and offense first, rather than speed and harassing defense. Speaking of which, last night’s game against a talented Golden State backcourt was a pretty good testament to how bothersome Teague can be to opposing point guards. It’s not like hasn’t shown flashes of this ability before, but the starting role and extended minutes (he played over 25 this time) were a confirmation of sorts. In case you think this is just a case of home cooking with local media, you need to check out some particular notes on the game from a more national perspective. On a side note, I would encourage everybody to take note of some interesting comments from Al Horford within that same article.
The Chicken vs The Egg…and Promises, Promises
Before we get too excited about the early success of Jeff Teague’s new (and possibly temporary) role, we have to recall that it has only been two games, one of which was a loss (though that loss can’t be blamed on Teague, per se). Can we expect a consistent performance out of him from the defensive end, and to continue to push the pace on offense? Will he defer if he’s in the game with Jamal, or is that simply a lineup issue that is solely Larry Drew’s responsibility? Is the future rotation at point guard forming itself before our very eyes, or is this just another flash in the pan?
Obviously, this calls Larry Drew’s past decisions into question. One quote from the above link may be condemning in some ways, depending on interpretation:
QUOTABLE II: “I’m not concerned about whether he makes or misses shots. . . . The biggest threat [from] him is when he utilizes his speed and his quickness, and when he harasses people defensively. That’s two straight games where I’ve thought he’s done a really good job with his energy.”
– Larry Drew on Teague.
Okay, that’s also two straight games where Teague has had the opportunity to prove that he can do these things that Drew claims he wants, during times in the game when it will actually matter. Did Drew have reason to believe Teague could not do this before? Was the playing time he gave Teague adequate to prove the argument in either direction? Some feel that Larry Drew would have never given Jeff Teague this chance if the trade had not occurred. Drew says he doesn’t care about Teague hitting shots. Something doesn’t seem right here, but is that even important now?
Here is the last and most obvious set of questions – will Larry Drew continue to give Jeff Teague significant minutes during games (as in 20 mpg or more)? Will he revert to using Jamal in tandem with Kirk Hinrich if Teague has rough games?
That remains to be seen, but for now, it seems like Teague’s time may have finally come.
Big Ray, Hawks Fan Nest
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570 comments Add your comment
niremetal
February 26th, 2011
11:35 pm
And lest I forget, there’s a whole ‘nother aspect of the game that the coach sees and we don’t – practice. This is why I’ve stopped making arguments that individual players should get more minutes. How a player performs in practice has a significant impact on his in-game minutes, and practice performance is something we aren’t privy to. Considering how poorly Teague CONSISTENTLY has played in games the past couple years, I don’t see what possible basis there could be for saying he deserves more minutes on a team that is headed for the playoffs rather than the lottery.
June
February 26th, 2011
11:59 pm
When the Hawks get back home we will see what they are all about…They truly have the talent to go to the finals ….They have a go 2 guy in Johnson…..Mr Consistency Al Horford Another Go to Guy in Crawford ,The Wild Cards Josh Smith and Jeff T,Captain Kirk and Marvin Williams…..You will see everybody’s Game expand now that they have 2 Point Guards that can drive and dish….For the Last 4 years it has been the 2 Guards driving leaving the Power foward open for shots ….Not any more…..The Hawks 2 me are the Most Talented team in the League….Now they have to prove it
Big Ray
February 27th, 2011
12:01 am
E43 ,
You don’t miss anybody in a shout out, do you?
Big Ray
February 27th, 2011
12:07 am
Stevedave ,
In Teague’s last three games, he has totals of 10 assists and 5 turnovers. His last two games as a starter include 8 assists and 5 turnovers. His average for the season is 1.8 assists and .9 turnovers.
Not the best ration to have, but not as bad as it could be. I would hardly call him a constant turnover machine.
Big Ray
February 27th, 2011
12:11 am
DirtyBraveHawk ,
I agree, defense and penetration on a consistent basis will do….for now. He does need to work on his perimeter shot in the offseason. Funny, you sound just like Larry Drew as far as your expectations. Let’s see if Drew is true to his word.
wordsmithtom ,
I do believe you’ve hit the nail on the head, my good sir.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 27th, 2011
12:15 am
“In any case, it’s pretty clear you didn’t watch those guys’ games when they were rookies. Because they all looked way, way better than Teague did from day one. Have fun trying to construct your arguments based on game logs, though.”
Have fun arguing against a point I didn’t make. The point I did make is that, contrary to your earlier assertion, rookies DO routinely get consistent minutes on playoff teams despite having their fair share of bad games — as all rookies do. Unless you are trying to argue that those players’ game logs belie their actual contributions and that every game they played was a good one, you’re intentionally choosing to miss my point.
Big Ray
February 27th, 2011
12:17 am
Rufus1 ,
Thanks!
The Magic are struggling. Suddenly the sum of the parts they have is not as whole as it needs to be. We have proven we can play with them and beat them. What bugs me is that they are easily the more experienced playoff team in recent years, when it comes to postseason success. Can we overcome that? Because I think we are destined for each other in the first round…..
SteveW ,
I think you have to change the culture first. But would Shaq or Dampier really make us the team to beat? I don’t know. Shaq makes things different if he stays healthy and motivated, and he simply MUST be around some strong leadership, both on the sideline and on the court. Without it, he runs amuck. Or rather, he turns lazy and doesn’t do what you brought him for. Dampier…dude is putting up Zaza Pachulia numbers for the Miami Heat, who have NO big man depth. Still…he is a better defender of the paint and the rim on any given day…
Big Ray
February 27th, 2011
12:25 am
Niremetal ,
I agree. I think the trade was a good wake-up call for Teague as well. And I also agree that his butt would have been likely relocated this summer if things didn’t start going the way they have now. Of course, we have a ways to go, so Teague still has MUCH to prove.
Ken Strickland ,
The only inconsistency I can associate with your theory that Drew is only playing Teague now because Sund is making him do it is this: Why has it taken Sund that long to make such a mandate (which I don’t think he actually did). Seriously, let’s think about this:
Woody didn’t do it, and Sund “let” him do this for an entire season. So, he lets Woody walk the plank, then promotes Drew…who does the same thing for the first two-thirds of the season. Why would Sund let that go for that many games? Then, why would he trade Bibby for Hinrich, when all that might mean is Drew does the same thing with Teague again, only he’s using Hinrich in front of him, instead of Bibby?
I have a hard time buying that the trade for Hinrich was simply so Drew would be forced to play Teague. I also have a hard tim believing that Sund told Drew “play him or else.” Because it just doesn’t make sense for a GM to watch a coach do something totally detrimental to the team for 50 games. If you really believe this, then you must believe that Rick Sund is a moron as well. Only a moron would allow a head coach to hold a player down for an entire season, then hire another guy who does the exact same thing for more than half of a season, without firing him as well.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 27th, 2011
12:32 am
“And you’re ignoring the fact that Rondo played on a 60-loss team that was obviously tanking at the end of his rookie season…why? Oh, because it makes his situation totally irrelevant to that of Teague, who came in to a team that was playing for home-court advantage in the playoffs rather than jockeying for lottery position.”
Different? Yes. Totally irrelevant? No. I have never said Teague should be starting or getting the 35 minutes per game Rondo got in the last month of his rookie season. Obviously he was playing on a much better team and those minutes weren’t going to be available. What I have said constantly is that Teague showed enough in the minutes he played to be able to hold down a spot in the rotation, and if he had a defined role from the start of last season, he would have been likely improved and played his way into more meaningful playing time — much like Rondo did.
And anyway, you are just flat out wrong about Teague “consistently playing like crap”. At worst, he has played like a typical backup point guard in the league, no worse. He certainly hasn’t played badly enough to be buried on the end of the bench. And on the occasions when he has played better than a typical backup point guard — like the four game stretch in December of his rookie year — he has found himself buried on the bench again after that.
Big Ray
February 27th, 2011
12:32 am
superiorblogman ,
I don’t know. If GMs thought Teague would end up being the best pg in that draft class inside of 3 years, then why was he the seventh point guard taken in that draft class? I guess you could argue things such as fit and bigger team needs. I do recall Teague saying he wanted to prove that he would be the best pg in that draft class. He’s a ways off from doing that, but shooting for a goal like that could mean that he goes far.
I agree that if he can be much (but not necessarily all) of what Jennings is, he will be a good draft pick in hindsight. I really do think that GMs probably realized that he was going to actually take the full 3 years to be a finished product. I think that’s what we’re seeing right now.
D.S.G.B.
February 27th, 2011
12:33 am
i know its only two games, but i think im gonna fall in love with the new look hawks. even if we lose, i love to lose with some intensity in our eyes. in the past ive watched the hawks lose, long before the final buzzer. hopefully from now on, if there is a stat in the “L” column it will be because we ran out of time. I have a great idea!!! what if we move jj to the 3 and start teague and heinrich in the backcourt. i think with this tweak we would have the most complete starting lineup in the nba. talk about the tenacious defense we would have in THAT backcourt.
1=teague
2=kirk
3=jj
4=smith
5=horford
but i dont know how the bench rotation would workout. let me know what yall think of this, cuz marvin is the weak link in our starting rotation
Najeh Davenpoop
February 27th, 2011
12:36 am
“And lest I forget, there’s a whole ‘nother aspect of the game that the coach sees and we don’t – practice. This is why I’ve stopped making arguments that individual players should get more minutes. How a player performs in practice has a significant impact on his in-game minutes, and practice performance is something we aren’t privy to. ”
Fair point, but when a player at the end of the bench is suddenly thrust into a starting role and is able to hold his own against pretty good competition, I think it’s safe to assume that he has probably shown something similar in practice, and didn’t just wake up in the morning and take a pill that taught him how to not suck.
Big Ray
February 27th, 2011
12:36 am
Najeh ,
I felt that Ty Lawson’s situation in Denver was interesting. That was a team pushing for specific positioning in the West, but he got minutes none the less, even taking time from Anthony Carter (no great feat, but dude is a veteran). Not sure how that figures into your argument, but I thought it was worth noting. I figured Teague could have had similar production if he had similar minutes, even though his ability to score is a work in progress.
Big Ray
February 27th, 2011
12:39 am
A couple thoughts on practice:
Since we’re not privy to ANYTHING practice related, I think that all formed theories and opinions are…well, simply guesses. We can assume nothing.
I do find Najeh’s point about Teague suddenly being thrust into the starting lineup an interesting observation. There’s also this: Why does LD explain Zaza’s DNP by saying he wanted to see how Powell reacted by playing him? Neither situation is a clear indicator of any particular theory of us bloggers being right about ANYTHING in practice. In fact, it’s downright confusing.
doc
February 27th, 2011
12:42 am
rondo’s second season was even more telling as the celts had no choice but to hitch themselves to rondo as they made their way to becoming champions. it wasnt pretty at times as rivers continually harrassed rondo and showed veey little confidence in him. rondo came of age in the last two series. i wqtched rivers eseentially abuse rondo on every possession it seemed as to what to do. it was impressive what rondo accomplished but i think it was not until his third year or even his fourth that he finally got the reins totally to do what he does now. teague is going to have to peresevere a while longer as he gets his full trust. what has bothered me is his lack of desire to be the man and not sure why. i hope to see less of that going forward.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 27th, 2011
1:22 am
“I felt that Ty Lawson’s situation in Denver was interesting. That was a team pushing for specific positioning in the West, but he got minutes none the less, even taking time from Anthony Carter (no great feat, but dude is a veteran).”
I thought Lawson was clearly better than Teague — and more of a true point guard — when he came in the league, so his success doesn’t surprise me. But yeah, like Teague, he was behind a (much better) veteran point guard, and his coach still managed to find minutes for him.
But another guard with questions about his pure point guard ability, Jrue Holiday, was also picked a couple of spots ahead of Teague, and although he landed on a horrible team, he arguably had even less impact than Teague over the first four months of his career. The difference, of course, is that he got regular minutes, and started becoming productive by the end of the season. Of course, Teague landed on a good team, and expecting him to get Holiday minutes is unreasonable, but Holiday (and countless others) is proof that not every eventually successful rookie is going to come in and make a huge impact from day one.
niremetal
February 27th, 2011
1:40 am
Teague started twice last year. I remember both games clearly because they were basically an audition for him. He played poorly both times, especially at the defensive end. What made the game against GS (and to a lesser extent PHO) different? Well, none of us know. But don’t pretend this was the first opportunity he was given to play big minutes with the starters. It wasn’t. It was just the first time he did so without falling flat on his face.
And no, I’m not “just flat out wrong” about anything, but this is all a matter of opinion. To my eye, I have seen no more than 8-10 games where Teague played well in meaningful (ie first half of a game, or second half in a close game) since the beginning of last year. In the remaining 70 or so games, he played like crap at both ends of the floor.
Don’t pretend that my opinion is a radical one, either. Lots of people around here also think that Jeff Teague has been terrible since we drafted him.
niremetal
February 27th, 2011
1:41 am
*because this is a matter of opinion
niremetal
February 27th, 2011
1:54 am
And if your argument, Najeh, is that there are young players who have been permitted to play through their mistakes, then you aren’t really responding to the main thrust of my argument. Of course some young players get to play through their mistakes. I was stating a general rule, like saying “teams without superstars don’t win championships.” I never said that there were no exceptions.
Non-lottery picks on playoff teams like Teague have the least rope of all. It’s a sliding scale – the fewer mistakes a young player makes, the more minutes he gets. I have never seen a player who as played as poorly as Teague get minutes on a team as good as the Hawks.
All the counterexamples you provided played better than Teague out of the gate (which was the case for ALL of the players you mentioned) and/or else played for worse teams (Gibson and Rondo). If you want to argue otherwise, fine. But if not, then I don’t see what you’re getting at. Teague did not play well out of the gate like Millsap, Hill, Gibson, and Neal. Rookie Rondo played for a 60-loss team that made a concerted effort not to win games after the new year, so it was a totally different situation and has only marginal relevance to players on playoff teams.
niremetal
February 27th, 2011
1:59 am
I certainly will grant one thing, though – JT0 has not head many opportunities to play with the starters. Before this week, he played poorly the times that he did play with the starters, but the sample size was very small.
superiorblogman
February 27th, 2011
6:38 am
Niremetal, you are going from blog to blog with this same bullshi+. Teague had his chance, Teague is garbage, I am happy to see Teague get playing time but Kirk should be the starter, that’s you, like you have to sell this move to everyone. Kirk Hinrich has more of a track record of being a combo guard than Teague has of anything good or bad in the NBA. So, why should Kirk be given the position when he was not good enough to start over 2 rookies? When he was not good enough to get either of those teams that John Wall or Derrick Rose took over the year after Mr. Savior led them to the lotto? Seriously, Hinrich has a bigger resume of totally F’ing things up to the point of the team making the lottery than Teague has anything. Teague is simply inexperienced, Hinrich is experienced at being a mediocre leader that can be upgraded. He is a upgrade defensively over Bibby and that’s it. He is no great player that is going to push this team to the next level. Paying Kirk Hinrich almost $9 a year for next year would be a huge mistake, just another overpaid Hawk, add him to Marvin, Zaza, and JJ to some extinct even though JJ is still the 3rd best SG in the league. Hinrich is not even a top 20 PG and look at his salary. There is a reason he has been traded so often, what he gives you is not as valuable as what you guys are trying to make it out to be. I hope we can trade him along with another #1 draft pick to Utah this summer for Devin Harris who makes the same salary as Hinrich and is a top 10 PG easily. Lastly, I never liked Zaza because blogs overrated him and I feel a major part of that is because he looked like what people in good ole Georgia really would prefer if the world worked exactly like they wanted it to. Peachtree Hoops motto was there is no love like Zaza love, that is the most telling thing I ever read. One of the most worthless guys on the team and now in the league and that’s who you love. Kinda like Eminem to hip hop, these guys start to take away from the art and love of the craft because people blindly love them because they can be white in a black man’s game and hold there own, holding there own get’s blown out of proportion to being the greatest or the answer. Hinrich is a stop gap who is getting blown out of proportion, they are downing Bibby’s demeanor, saying Teague had his chance, let’s bury him for this stop gap who has never proven to be anything other than that. Look deeper man.
niremetal
February 27th, 2011
9:42 am
ding
O'Brien
February 27th, 2011
10:05 am
From MC’s latest blog, ZaZa speaking;
“It’s obvious,” he said. “Especially the role I am in, to bring energy. I am role player bringing energy and effort off the bench. Not only just me, but I am talking about any role player to come off the bench and [it's difficult to] make a difference in five, six minutes right away. I have had the games played more than 20 minutes [and] this is where you see the efficiency and my effort and energy.
“Especially I don’t come to the game and [have] any plays–not complaining, just saying that’s my [role]. In my situation to play five or six minutes, you have a defensive slippage or teams make most of their shots and don’t give you a chance to get a defensive rebound. Or offensively you make a mistake. My time is going fast meanwhile and you don’t seem that efficient.”.
I think Teague could probably say some of the same things…
O'Brien
February 27th, 2011
10:09 am
ZaZa has played better when he gets more PT, but on this team, he is not guaranteed 18-24 mpg. And when he does get 4 minutes here and there, his play has declined. Now what?
He is still owed 2 years, $10 mil after this season, so I think we are stuck with him. What do the Hawks do next year? Do they bring Collins back? Does Hilton Armstrong take some of ZaZa’s minutes?
Would anybody trade for him? Will ZaZa find a way to contribute more in limited minutes?
lukas
February 27th, 2011
10:36 am
JC2 in his 2nd game with the Wizards got nice stats. He even was on the floor at the end of the game when they were tied. Trading him could turn out a huge mistake.
wordsmithtom
February 27th, 2011
11:25 am
Hated to lose JC2 also. But, you have to give to get. Bibby’s weak defence was too costly to keep.
And for all who want a more offensive point than Kurt, tell me, where are the Hawks going to come up with the balls? JJ, JS, Horf are first 3 option. PG is 4/5 depending on whether MW is playing well or not. PG’s job with this team is to drive, dish, and get people where they need to be. KH can do all these + mentoring Teague in the process. Maybe he’s not a top 20 PG, but he’s much better than Fisher at LA and they made the finals last year….just sayin’
Ken Strickland
February 27th, 2011
12:40 pm
BIG RAY-Comeon now, don’t over simplify. You and I both know that there was a lot more behind trading Bibby than forcing Drew to play Teague more. MGT obviously felt as I did, and that was the conclusion that Bibby had become both an OFF and DEF liability. They felt so strongly about it they were willing to overpay to get someone to take him off their hands. They were also willing to take on more salay as well, in order to get more OFF/DEF production.
I think they also wanted to change the atmosphere and direction. Bibby was the team clown and everyone’s friend, but he was no longer the floor general he once was. He simply started deferring too much, and I believe that’s what prompted Teague’s comment last yr, when he said maybe he’ll just get it across half court and hand it off, when asked about how he’d handle running the OFF.
I don’t know why you find it so hard to believe Sund and/or the ASG would wait until the trade deadline to give him an untimatum. After all, didn’t they wait an entire season, and give Woodson every chance to do what they expected of him before pulling the plug. If they had no intentions of pulling the plug on LDrew, why not get involved at the trade deadline.
BIG RAY, I’d like you to offer an answer to the following questions:
1-why do you think Bibby was traded?
2-do you think LDrew initiated the trade of the PG he respected and depended on so much, or do you think it was Sund’s/ASG’s decision?
You asked why would Sund wait so late to give LDrew a mandate, when the question(s) should have been:
3-why would LDrew wait so long to decide Bibby had to go, and
4-why did he suddenly decide to do a complete 180 with both Teague and JPowell, if he didn’t have a mandate?
I believe MGT stepped in because they didn’t want a repeat of last yr, where they stood by and did nothing while Woodson rode Bibby’s back, as the team went down in flames. They knew that’s exactly where this team was headed with LDrew blindly following Woodson’s formula, except it was likely to happen in the 1st rd instead of the 2nd.
You may disagree, which is fine with me, but I stand by my position. There’s no way on earth that LDrew, and LDrew alone, and just before the trade deadline, decided that JTeague had miraculously become aggressiveness enough, mature enough, and confident enough, to replace Bibby, and that Bibby should be traded, NO WAY IN HELL.
Ken Strickland
February 27th, 2011
12:53 pm
BIG RAY-You are entitled to your opinion, and that’s fine with me, but I stand by mine. You said you found it hard to believe RSund would wait so late in the season to give Drew a mandate.
Well, if you find that hard to believe, then how hard would it be for you to believe that LDrew waited just as late in the season to decide that JTeague has miraculously become aggressive enough, confident enough, and mature enough, to replace Bibby and run the team?
Or, that after 57gms, and playing Teague less than 12 inconsistent MPG, LDrew suddenly felt so confident in his ability to get the job done, that he traded Bibby. THERE’S NO WAY FOR THESE DECISIONS AND RESULTS TO BE LDREW’S DECISIONS, NO WAY IN HELL.
Ken Strickland
February 27th, 2011
1:05 pm
BIG RAY-You are certainly entitled to your opinion, I have no problem with that, but I’ll stick by mine. You said you found it hard to believe RSund would wait so long in the season to give Drew a mandate.
Well, if you don’t think he was given a mandate, then why do you think it took LDrew just as long to decide that JTeague had become aggressive enough, mature enough, and confident enough, to take over for Bibby? And what has Teague done to make Drew feel he could trade Bibby, the PG he depended on to the extent of playing him 30MPG?
I’d say that Sund and the ASG saw Drew following the same ill advised approach that Woodson took with Bibby and the team overall, and didn’t want a repeat of last yr. So, they decided to step in, make changes, and give Drew a mandate.
E43
February 27th, 2011
1:58 pm
BIG RAY- It was a very prestigious award. chances are ill die before it happens again
D.S.G.B- Anything that involves horford playing the center positions is almost DOA becuause;-
1)Horford doesnt favor playing the 5. he does so on a need be basis
2)The hawks rebounding and shot blocking is suffering. Look for the hawks to look for some beef up front in any way they can get it
KEN STRICKLAND- Jeff Teague got significant minutes because of the gigantic holes left behind by Evans and Bibby- it came down to either playing Teague some or play Jamal 38+mins. All that has happened is Damien took over Evans minutes and Hinrich will take over Bibbys minutes. Teague now will get to play consistently but i doubt it will be extended minutes. It predict it will be what Damien used to play before the trade. Teague actually played better the past two games. It wasn’t because there was a change of heart with LD or Sund. If Teague can keep that level of play then he will get consistent minutes. if not. I guarantee hell be glued right back to the bench.
O'Brien
February 27th, 2011
2:06 pm
Twitter Updates;
Mike Prada: I asked Jordan Crawford how one develops without PT: “You can’t. You can’t. That’s how I look at it. I don’t think you can.” Twitter.
John Canzano: Keep an eye on Mike Bibby. Portland feels like a potential suitor there, even as Bibby would have to give up big money to make it happen. Twitter..
Ken Strickland
February 27th, 2011
2:21 pm
E43-Why do you think Teague played better the last 2gms, and why do you think he’s played better in every gm in which he’s received 18 or more mins? Exactly what prevented LDrew from doing this earlier in the season, at least once?
Whether Teague finishes the season as our starting PG or not, he’ll definitely receive extended mins. I believe Drew will look for any excuse to start Hinrich, because like Woodson, he seems to have a bias towards younger less experienced players. Otherwise, why not make an honest effort to develop him, or at least find out what he can do, especially with Bibby being such a DEF liability and regressing offensively.
Trust me, Teague will be given every opportunity to succeed from this point on, whether as a starter or coming off the bench, because Drew now knows with no uncertainty he’s out of here if he doesn’t.
Ken Strickland
February 27th, 2011
2:23 pm
OBRIEN-Portland has been interested in acquiring Bibby for yrs.
Melvin
February 27th, 2011
3:05 pm
Interesting take on scaling back salaries in the next CBA. If the owners choose to reduce salaries of current contracts then shouldn’t the players have the right to void those contracts since it wouldn’t be the contract in which they agreed to work for?
http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/tolnick/2011/02/27/scaling-back-existing-salaries-a-two-way-street/
Melvin
February 27th, 2011
3:09 pm
I think Ty Lawson and Eric Maynor are two players that’s in a situation similar to Teague. Both came into the league to play for playoff teams in a backup role. Both has played consistent mins since their rookie season…
O'Brien
February 27th, 2011
3:17 pm
Melvin,
I wonder if the NBA owners will push for a franchise tag like what the NFL has.
Watching OKC and Lakers, I can’t help but root for OKC. They are my favorite team in the West now.
Astro Joe
February 27th, 2011
3:54 pm
I think all 12 players hould get at least 18 minutes/game and we should stay in the lottery for the next 25 years. Some are clearly more interested in player development than winning.
O'Brien
February 27th, 2011
5:10 pm
LD says there might be some lineup changes.
I dont consider Hinrich starting over Teague much of a lineup change, because that is going to happen sooner or later.
But given how Marvin has struggled starting the last 2 games, does LD start Damien instead? Damien played well in his minutes, and If I’m not mistaken, the last few games Marvin played coming off the bench, he played well.
I am looking forward to being on ESPN though, because I get to hear different voices instead of Bob and Nique.
Astro Joe
February 27th, 2011
5:35 pm
If everyone gets 18 minutes of development time, who cares which 5 guys start. I look forward to watching Zaza, Hilton, Collins and Powell get their time they are owed as NBA players while Josh and Al sit.
Will
February 27th, 2011
5:56 pm
I believe Kirk will be a better mentor or role model as far as playing the game of basketball the right way as a pg in the nba. I have not seen a starting pg in the nba who did not play good defense
win a nba championship. You also need your pg to be a leader on the floor, not just in the locker room.
N.D.T.K.A.
February 27th, 2011
6:51 pm
Most of this talk about Teague is ridiculous. Teague played with an upper class team at Wake and was a scoring point guard off the dribble and not a jump shooter. Teague did not even play the full 4 years. Everyone knows Teague was a project with exceptional athleticism and speed.
Other point guards such as George Hill. Eric Maynor, Jrue Holliday, and Collison ran the show at PG for their college teams.
Mostly how much playing time a player gets at the next level depends on the coach and what he expects from his personnel.
With so many different and confusing comments from Drew who knows what he wants from Teague? Only Drew and Teague can answer that.
It just doesn’t make sense that Teague did not play over Bibby or even Jamal at times with their terrible defense, regardless to how long they have been playing or what they have accomplished in the past.
It is fine if Hinrich starts over Teague as long as Drew doesn’t mess with Teague’s confidence to go out and play the pg position. Teague’s confidence and work ethic will determine whether or not he succeeds with the Hawks. And also Teague’s in a pretty good position with Hinrich in-house to mentor him.
Big Ray
February 27th, 2011
7:19 pm
I need to put the blog monster on a diet.
Posts by Ken Strickland, wordsmithtom, and N.D.G.K.T.R.X.Y.A.F.L.H.S (did I miss any letters?) rescued.
Just kidding to the dude with the acronym for a screen name. You’re cool with me!
Najeh Davenpoop
February 27th, 2011
7:26 pm
Eminem is much, much better at hip hop than Zaza can ever hope to be at basketball.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 27th, 2011
7:27 pm
The acronym stands for “Not Drinking The Kool Aid” right? Or did I just make that up?
Big Ray
February 27th, 2011
7:28 pm
superiorblogman ,
You must have missed the comment I made a day or two ago about Kirk Hinrich losing his job to a couple of rookie point guards.
Those point guards just happened to be the #1 pick in the draft in their respective rookie seasons. They just happened to be Derrick Rose and John Wall. Name me some guys who wouldn’t lose their jobs to those two, and I’ll show you guys who are all-stars. Because that’s what you’d have to be to not lose your job to Rose or Wall. An all-star. Even then, show me a team that wouldn’t trade Tony Parker or Chauncey Billups for one of those guys.
Will ,
I agree. Kirk Hinrich plays the game the right way, and he’s a coach’s dream. He’s not a teacher’s pet, as he is the consummate teammate. Something tells me guys like Joe and Al will warm up to him very quickly.
Meanwhile, another endorsement of Teague (and a shot at Bibby) that I’m sure would warm ol’ Ken Strickland’s heart (I’m pickin’ at ya Ken):
“[Teague] picked up the point guard full court and really had a big impact because he was able to get over screens,” center Al Horford said. “That’s something we struggled with in the past, our guards getting over screens. Hopefully he will keep that level of play up.”
Big Ray
February 27th, 2011
7:31 pm
N.D.T.K.A ,
I hear you. I’m cool with Teague being the backup pg. As in the real backup point guard. I’m also cool with LD using Teague as a starter against teams where the matchup is favorable, and using Hinrich the same way. If Teague continues to contribute the way he did against Golden State, I’d say there’s no reason to not let him get the PT. I’m still calling for 18-20 mpg. No less, unless he’s playin’ stinky.
Big Ray
February 27th, 2011
7:35 pm
In the meantime, I’m interested in just exactly what LD does to the lineup/rotation. He keeps talking about changes, but I don’t see so many of those.
My guess is Marvin and Zaza need to watch themselves.
Will Hilton Armstrong get some serious burn tonight?
Big Ray
February 27th, 2011
7:36 pm
Najeh ,
See, that’s why you’re the man. I’d have never figured the acronym out. Because these days, 33 is old. Dang….I’m old? Oh no….
O'Brien
February 27th, 2011
7:46 pm
Big Ray,
If LD liked what he saw from Powell in the last game, then ZaZa might be already be out of the rotation. The interesting thing to me is Powell is a backup PF, while ZaZa is a backup Center, so how does LD juggle there respective PT?
As for Teague, his challenge will be when he is coming off the bench with Jamal. Does he defer? Does Jamal dominate the ball while Teague stands in the corner? What does Josh Powell and ZaZa do with Teague’s passes?
Najeh Davenpoop
February 27th, 2011
7:56 pm
“Teague started twice last year. I remember both games clearly because they were basically an audition for him. He played poorly both times, especially at the defensive end. ”
Actually, he started three times, and in the third game he dropped 25 and 15. I don’t remember the two previous starts specifically, but I do notice that he dropped 6 dimes against one turnover in 22 minutes against Charlotte, so it’s a little hard for me to believe that particular outing would have been all bad. Yes, I am going by the box score again, but in the absence of any other way of judging what he did that day, that’s all I have to go on.
“I have seen no more than 8-10 games where Teague played well in meaningful (ie first half of a game, or second half in a close game) since the beginning of last year.”
In how many games has he even played “meaningful” minutes? When has he even played in the second half of a close game for this team?
Until four days ago, my opinion on Teague this season was a little different. I still felt that he had the talent to succeed, but my stance was more anti-Bibby than pro-Teague — whether it was Teague, JC2, or someone acquired via trade didn’t matter, but someone had to step up and claim the PG position from Bibby, because Bibby wasn’t getting the job done. But the fact that Teague has stepped in over the last two games and the team hasn’t played any worse — and in some ways has been better — tells me that he could have been contributing a long time ago if he had been given the opportunity.
I don’t know what “the main thrust of your argument” is, but I jumped into the discussion when I saw you repeat something several other people on these blogs tend to say — that you can’t expect rookies to get minutes on playoff teams. It was that specific point that I was contesting. Yeah, it’s more or less a difference of opinion between you and me on how good Teague has been, but if he can play quality minutes all of a sudden over the last two games, chances are he could have done the same earlier if he had been given a defined role as the backup point guard before, rather than having his minutes arbitrarily jerked around. Like I said earlier, he didn’t wake up Wednesday and pop a pill that magically made him not suck.