Teague’s time may have finally come
Go ahead. Say “I told you so.” Two games is a small sample, but second year man Jeff Teague may finally have seen his ship come in. With the trade of Mike Bibby to the Washington Wizards, along with the arrival of veteran point guard Kirk Hinrich, many of us wondered if Jeff Teague’s “role” with the Hawks was going to change or not. So far, it has, and in semi-dramatic fashion.
Here Comes “The Pest”
It was kind of hard sometimes, watching Jeff Teague play in spurts in the early season. He would come onto the court and show that he had another gear beyond everyone else in some games. In others, he played like he knew he would be yanked within two minutes. Where was the consistency? At the same time, the same could be asked of Head Coach Larry Drew, who would compliment Teague after a good game, then inexplicably assign him a DNP or play him in spare, all but useless minutes. Stop me if you’ve heard this one before….
It seemed that Larry Drew had embraced the idea of going with shooting and offense first, rather than speed and harassing defense. Speaking of which, last night’s game against a talented Golden State backcourt was a pretty good testament to how bothersome Teague can be to opposing point guards. It’s not like hasn’t shown flashes of this ability before, but the starting role and extended minutes (he played over 25 this time) were a confirmation of sorts. In case you think this is just a case of home cooking with local media, you need to check out some particular notes on the game from a more national perspective. On a side note, I would encourage everybody to take note of some interesting comments from Al Horford within that same article.
The Chicken vs The Egg…and Promises, Promises
Before we get too excited about the early success of Jeff Teague’s new (and possibly temporary) role, we have to recall that it has only been two games, one of which was a loss (though that loss can’t be blamed on Teague, per se). Can we expect a consistent performance out of him from the defensive end, and to continue to push the pace on offense? Will he defer if he’s in the game with Jamal, or is that simply a lineup issue that is solely Larry Drew’s responsibility? Is the future rotation at point guard forming itself before our very eyes, or is this just another flash in the pan?
Obviously, this calls Larry Drew’s past decisions into question. One quote from the above link may be condemning in some ways, depending on interpretation:
QUOTABLE II: “I’m not concerned about whether he makes or misses shots. . . . The biggest threat [from] him is when he utilizes his speed and his quickness, and when he harasses people defensively. That’s two straight games where I’ve thought he’s done a really good job with his energy.”
– Larry Drew on Teague.
Okay, that’s also two straight games where Teague has had the opportunity to prove that he can do these things that Drew claims he wants, during times in the game when it will actually matter. Did Drew have reason to believe Teague could not do this before? Was the playing time he gave Teague adequate to prove the argument in either direction? Some feel that Larry Drew would have never given Jeff Teague this chance if the trade had not occurred. Drew says he doesn’t care about Teague hitting shots. Something doesn’t seem right here, but is that even important now?
Here is the last and most obvious set of questions – will Larry Drew continue to give Jeff Teague significant minutes during games (as in 20 mpg or more)? Will he revert to using Jamal in tandem with Kirk Hinrich if Teague has rough games?
That remains to be seen, but for now, it seems like Teague’s time may have finally come.
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570 comments Add your comment
Astro Joe
March 3rd, 2011
9:25 am
Nice to see a positive story from Hollinger (for a change). And who was saying that Toney Douglas would have been a good draft pick for the Hawks? Oh yeah, ME! Ha!
http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-110303/daily-dime
Melvin
March 3rd, 2011
9:28 am
I’m still on a high after last night victory. This team showed a lot of heart to win that game. After that gutsy performance, I will refrain from any negative comments toward the Hawks players or organization at least until the next game. They earn that respect from me after the way they played last night.
Melvin
March 3rd, 2011
9:30 am
Nire,
Damn the Huh, we needed a Ding….
niremetal
March 3rd, 2011
9:45 am
Melvin,
How’s this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0
doc
March 3rd, 2011
9:45 am
yeah aj props, i thought that earlier today and whenever his name pops up.
also thought the ding was more to the point than a huh. maybe there was too much shock to the post to go beyond the incredulous response. i was left keyboardless, fingers paralyzed, when i read it earlier and am sorry to have let us down on that one.
.
niremetal
March 3rd, 2011
10:02 am
Yeah, I froze too. That might have been the highest concentration of ding I’ve ever seen. My system couldn’t handle it.
Astro Joe
March 3rd, 2011
10:08 am
Check out LD’s interview from this morning. Interesting comments about Horford’s more vocal leadership last night. I hope that continues and isn’t strictly a result of battling Joakim Noah (and Josh’s absence).
http://www.790thezone.com/instantreplay/Episodes.aspx?PID=1345
doc
March 3rd, 2011
10:31 am
@ nire, seriously roflsfh
yeah aj, i have relished that game like a kid listening to all the interviews.
had the morn off to let it settle in.
looking forward to the month and have plans to be firmly in my seat.
i like basketball like last night, heady, intense with some clutch shots and good defense. i really like a team that wants to man up and play defense as well. i hope capt kirk brings that focus to complete the picture.
also, d wilkens can play, has court smarts and real desire. good replacement for mo and someone i would go to early if marvin shows up in the clouds and needs some grounding. he moves with agility, savvy and purpose on the court and should solidify us.
it was interesting how long LD stayed with a complete second unit on the floor last night. i hope they got it.
and man, did anyone feel like the scoreboard got stuck at 30 – 23 last night? just how long was it? then they went on a run. we had our chances early, glad we competed and to them at the end.
kwooden
March 3rd, 2011
10:50 am
Great win last night, didn’t see any of it, but I hope to watch it later!
Finally watched the Denver game and really got a better understanding of Jeff’s game. He doesn’t have a great feel for getting the team in the right position to score. He can start the offensive but I don’t think he has a good feel for who needs to shoot and when. I think if he continues to get minutes he will get use to the speed of the game. At that point I think his floater will be fine and also his jumpshot. The feel for the game will take a lot longer. His defense is solid and his speed does effect the game. I still would like to see him start more games, but I understand that Kirk cost us Jordan and a 1st so he has to start.
Great Win!!
GO HAWKS!
Astro Joe
March 3rd, 2011
11:00 am
doc, it was intense but it was also fairly sloppy. I’m not sure that all of the low-scoring can be attributed to great defense. I think both coaches could spend a few days trying to correct the “bad” of the game.
Funny how Rose’s 5-21 was a result of great defense while Joe’s 5-20 was the result of an overpaid player who generally sucks in big games. Oh well, everyone gets to have an opinion (even if some are super biased).
Ken Strickland
March 3rd, 2011
11:27 am
We took a lot of jump shots last night because that’s what the Bulls wanted us to do, and they’re big enough inside and good enough defensively to make it happen. The played a lot of zone and packed it in inside. We were definitely challenged whenever we tried to go inside.
What’s so great about how we won last nights win is the way we turned the tables on them, by forcing them to become a jump shooting team in the 2nd half. I’ve known for sometime that our poor perimeter DEF was the cause of our DEF problems, but I still seem to have under estimated it’s overall effects.
We have become a totally different team, and you can see the confidence swelling. We aren’t getting any more scoring and assists from the combination of Teague and Hinrich than we got from the combination of Teague and Bibby. But the Hinrich and Teague combination has made certain that opposing PG’s aren’t getting anywhere near their normal production as well.
We are now SWITCHING and RECOVERING, rather than SWITCHING and COVERING UP. The addition of Hinrich and Armstrong have made us quicker, faster, more athletic and versatile. Once Hinrich and Armstrong learn our OFF/DEF systems and their teammates, we’ll become a team that nobody will want to face in the playoffs.
We’re now equipped to whip Orlando even if they have home court advantage.
Ken Strickland
March 3rd, 2011
12:01 pm
ASTRO JOE-Doggone good points my friend. JJ and JSmoove HATERS conveniently over look their play making ability, which has allowed us to function so successfully over the yrs without a play making PG.
We shouldn’t be too concerned about us shooting jumper shots so much, because that’s what we’ll have to do more of if we intend to be more successful in the playoffs. If we continue playing the type of DEF we’ve played since the trade, we can do whatever we want on OFF.
doc
March 3rd, 2011
12:03 pm
great defense makes things sloppy at times aj. no, it was not pretty but the bulls play about as close as they can on each possession with a lot of help and traps. they take space away, which is how it is done, when done well. look only to teague who ran right into the teeth of several in a row that he had to be pulled, never to be seen again, as that is about all he knows, right now. slump shouldered he went to the bench.
they are that good and play that hard, umm, kind of remind me of the celts, imagine that? it like any playoff game is a war of attrition and we won last night. i hope eventually our offense can learn to play under such scrutiny, until then they have to be as scrappy as the other team, until they do and make them look sloppier.
niremetal
March 3rd, 2011
12:18 pm
I know it’s still early, but the trade looks like it might have been just what the doctor ordered to make the Hawks a threat for the Conference Finals. It used to be that the Hawks’ whole was less than the sum of its parts. The past few games, that hasn’t been the same. They look more like a “team” after 3 games with Captain Kirk at the helm than they did in the 3 years under Bibby. The offense still needs to be ironed out, but I think that’ll come as Kirk gets acclimated to his teammates.
The team’s only real weakness is that it’s too jumper-happy. Our bigs in particular rely on their jumpers more than most guys at their respective positions (which is fine when you’re consistent from that range like Al, but with Josh…). I’m hoping Kirk will help with that too as he gets used to the system – hopefully he can coax Josh and Al into going toward the basket more. We’ll see…
Astro Joe
March 3rd, 2011
1:50 pm
Considering that the Wizards got about $8M in expiring contracts (once Bibby took the buyout) AND two first round picks for their back-up PG & big, this trade REALLY needs to workout for the Hawks.
doc
March 3rd, 2011
2:00 pm
not sure about your point there aj. it is a win win as bibby was not going to be bought out by this group. bibby would have been packaged anyway to get rid of his salary most likely. what good is his 6 mil on their team next year?
doc
March 3rd, 2011
2:02 pm
aj, also the askg dont want 2.5 to 3 mil tied up in a rook and second year and i dont either if they get out there and get more than a warm body the league will pay half for next season. can i say huh, on this one?
Astro Joe
March 3rd, 2011
2:17 pm
doc, point being that if Sund were to hold up a sign saying that he has $8M in expiring deals and 2 first round picks he’s willing to send out, would he have received more value in return. I’m not declaring it a “bad” trade by any means. But I think it is fair to say that once Bibby agreed to the buyout, it likely went from good to DAMN good from a Wizards perspective. If Hinrich stays healthy and fortifies our defense AND Horford fines his leadership chops, then it will become a DAMN good trade for us also. And I’m not even sure that I need an incredible playoff run this year to place it in that rating.
doc
March 3rd, 2011
2:18 pm
nire, i really like the trade as well, wanted hinrich in the deep dark days of summer once he ended up in washington on top of walls. i dont know which came first but on a team not going anywhere hinrich needed to go and should have been available.
we also need a big that can bound and defend more actively in reserve before we can compete at large with the big boys unless these guys grow something like two somethings or a few injuries occur to the other guys. however, not going to concede anything until the month is over. this will really be like playoff games and competition. it is going to be fun to see how the hawks respond to the pressure. maybe armstrong can give us that type of energy, just havent seen it from him in the past.
finally, has anyone really understood the trade of the celts to get rid of perkins? are they that confident in the two o’neals and big baby? that one still puzzles me.
doc
March 3rd, 2011
2:21 pm
aj, okay i’ll play, looking around the league and seeing what is availble to what we need …. who better?
and no one knew bibby would take 6.2 mill off the table and quietly leave. no one talked to him about the trade until it was adone deal. now how could sund package it for more than initial face value?
Astro Joe
March 3rd, 2011
2:27 pm
doc, I guess it is better to just say that the trade became significantly better for the Wizards. Of course, asking Bibby “would you take a buyout if traded to a lottery-bound team” probably would not have been worth the effort, huh? We did see Camby, Pryzbilla and others claim they would retire if they were sent out… but that is water under the bridge.
doc
March 3rd, 2011
2:37 pm
yeah a little too rear view mirror for me to take a shot at it. good trade they made better by bibby saying yes to buy out. even the 125 mil $ man was surprised bibby left money on the table.
Astro Joe
March 3rd, 2011
3:05 pm
I don’t know if he is playing tonight… but Bibby is pretty good at the pick & roll… and he will have 3 really good guys to set-up in Miami. I understand that many around here grew to loathe him, but I wish him luck (when not playing the Hawks). I appreciate what he brought o my favorite team for most of the past 3 years.
doc
March 3rd, 2011
3:11 pm
me too, but his time was up here. listen to the players talk as well.
O'Brien
March 3rd, 2011
3:13 pm
From the daily dime;
What coach Mike D’Antoni specifically asked Douglas to do Wednesday was to begin playing with an ego, to stop being too deferential to Stoudemire and Anthony, and to take a cue from the injured player he was replacing, Chauncey Billups and be an offensive initiator if necessary instead of an offensive facilitator..
LD probably said some of the same things to Teague. Stop being too deferential to Jamal and JJ, and be an offensive initiator,
LD’s comments about Josh (after the game).
Drew: “Josh, he’s kind of a kamikaze. You know in transition with him bringing the ball on the break that there’s a chance the ball could end up in the stands somewhere but you also know he’s capable of making plays. I’ve come to the point to live with that.
When he gets the ball off the glass and brings it down on the break, we are in an attack mode. … His energy when he’s flying all over the court just makes us a much more effective ballclub.”.
Very good description (imo). But I still think Josh can be more selective with his ‘kamikaziness’.
Astro Joe
March 3rd, 2011
3:14 pm
doc, no doubt. Appreciating his contribution in no way means wanting another 100 games of him as our starting PG. At the same time, just because someone has declined it doesn’t mean that they never contributed. My memory is good enough to recall where we were with Ty Lue, Royal Ivey and others trying to get us in the playoffs. Again, I appreciate Bibby’s 3 years as a Hawk.
Ken Strickland
March 3rd, 2011
3:24 pm
Earlier I commented on my concerns about the possibility that LDrew’s favorable bias towards vet PG’s will cause him to bench and bury Teague, and run Hinrich into the ground by playoff time. If last nights gm is any indication, I was correct in my assumption.
It’s revealing to me when I hear Drew say he intends to throw Hinrich out there and play him extended mins so he can learn, get his mistakes out of the way and get his feet wet. It’s a shame his unfavorable bias against young PG’s prevents him from realizing the same approach works for developing the confidence and abilities of young PG’s as well.
How many of you share my belief that the Hawks will over take the Magic? And how many of you think we have any possible chance of overtaking the Bills? With KPerkins gone, I feel the Celtics will be vulnerable inside come playoff time. We’ve already defeated the Heat once and the Magic twice with our DEF liabilities intact.
I can’t wait for our next rematch with the Celtics, Magic and Heat, now that we no longer have a DEF liability at PG.
niremetal
March 3rd, 2011
4:09 pm
AJ,
Late first round picks are worth pretty much zilch. The typical late first round pick sits on the deep bench for most of their NBA career. ESPN ran a great story a couple years back showing how much the contribution of picks tails off after you get below the lottery. This graph was my favorite part:
http://assets.espn.go.com/i/mag/blog/2009/0605_graph.jpg
It also listed “expected” contributions from each draft position based on the last 20 drafts. The “expected” #20 is Renaldo Balkman. #21 is Jon Barry. #22 is Oliver Miller. #23 is Wilson Chandler (based on his Wins Over Replacement before his breakout last season). And so on. Unless you’re RC Buford, it’s dumb luck if you end up with someone who turns out to be more than a fringe rotation player on a playoff team (or a borderline starter on a bad team) after #20 in the draft. No, really. It is.
The way you can tell this? Go back to the drafts around a decade ago and look at the guys selected below #20. See how many of them played in a NBA rotation for more than a couple seasons. In 2000, DeShawn Stevenson, Morris Peterson, and Primoz Brezec were the only guys who were in NBA rotations for a few years. In 2001, Gerald Wallace and Tony Parker were selected, and Jamaal Tinsley and Sam Dalembert also were in that section of the draft. In 2002, Tayshaun Prince, Nenad Krstic, and John Salmons became decent.
Now I know you’ll look at that list and say “look at how many good players you named from that section of the draft.” The problem is that those guys were the exception. Out of 26 players selected, only 10 (38%) became NBA rotation players, and only 2 (Wallace and Parker) became All Stars. Clearly, then, the most likely outcome of a sub-20 draft pick is that you don’t even get a rotation player. You’re lucky if you get a Nenad Krstic or a Primoz Brezec in that section of the draft. Heck, you’d be doing better than average to end up with Dan Dickau or Raul Lopez.
When you’re trading away draft picks, you have to consider what the most likely value of the guy(s) you picked there would be. The most likely value of a sub-20 pick is not very high. So when you consider the value of what we traded away, plug in Raul Lopez or Mark Madsen. Because that’s what the draft pick is most likely to be worth.
In other words, playing the odds, Mo Evans was a more valuable piece to part with than the first rounder.
doc
March 3rd, 2011
4:10 pm
aj as far as what the players are saying:
5. The excitement over Kirk Hinrich’s arrival continues.
Johnson: “He’s a guy who really sticks his nose in there (on defense). He loves taking charges and he loves the challenge in defending and rebounding. So that’s big from a guard standpoint. … With Kirk in the lineup, we’re 3-0. What more can I say?”
Smith described him as “a guy that can get under a point guard’s skin with his toughness and the way he’s able to pick the ball up and play defense and get over screens, a guy that can knock down an open jump shot and create his own jump shot and get in the paint and dish it off, as well. He’s a guy that can help us a lot.”
came from the other blog.
dont go soft on me now bro. you and i were talking up hinrich all summer. enjoy the harvest from our seeds. heh heh
O'Brien
March 3rd, 2011
5:11 pm
Heat vs Magic tonight, with Bibby making his debut.
Ken S,
I think the Hawks can overtake the Magic, but even if we are the 5th seed and Orlando is the 4th seed, I think we can still win 4 out of 7.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 3rd, 2011
5:30 pm
“At the risk of throwing a wet blanket on last night, Najeh, Al took a ton of jumpers. He was obviously red-hot but I’m not convinced that we can blame our jumper-happy bigs on past PG play. After watching over 50 games of LD’s offense, I think it is safe to say that it is designed to create open jumpers for the players (more so than back door cuts).”
I think we can blame the lack of touches of any kind for the big men on past PG play, though. Even if Al is being set up with jumpers, that’s a huge improvement over not being set up with anything, as was often the case when Bibby was running the show.
Here’s the thing — I agree to a point about the jumpers and I definitely agree about LD’s offense for the most part, but if there is one guy on this team I don’t mind seeing take jumpers it’s Al. The guy can make a legit case for being a top 5 mid range jump shooter in the league. The Mavs are comfortable living and dying with Dirk’s jump shot; as far as I’m concerned, Al’s jump shot inside the 3 point line is pretty close to that level.
Ideally, though, Al would mix in jump shots with drives to the basket, which he does really well when he acts decisively, and ideally the PGs would get him the ball a little closer to the hoop than they did last night so that he’d be able to do so with more effectiveness.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 3rd, 2011
5:42 pm
“I’m hoping Kirk will help with that too as he gets used to the system – hopefully he can coax Josh and Al into going toward the basket more. ”
I really hope the Hawks start running pick and rolls more, instead of just pick and pops, now that they have a point guard who can move. As athletic as Smoove and Al are and as proficient as they are passing the basketball, no excuse for not running a few plays every now and then that get them moving towards the basket.
niremetal
March 3rd, 2011
5:52 pm
Najeh,
From what I understand, the decision on whether to pop or roll in the NBA is usually up to the big on the play. It’s not a play where the player runs a “route.” One of the things that supposedly drove both Larry and Flip up the wall in Detroit was that Sheed started popping more and more off screen-rolls instead of going to the basket. Anyway, point is that where the guy goes is up to the bigs as much or more than it is the PG. And right now, Josh and Al both seem way too content to pop jumpers.
O'Brien
March 3rd, 2011
6:19 pm
Najeh,
as far as I’m concerned, Al’s jump shot inside the 3 point line is pretty close to that level. .
What about his jump shot outside the 3 point line? From MC’s new blog;
Al Horford has more range than we knew. Horford, who made his first 3-pointer of the season against Chicago, spends time on the shot in practice. Drew said that last summer he saw Horford shooting 3-pointers in the practice gym and asked him to take five 3-pointers at five different spots around the arc. Horford made 23 of 25, he said.
After he made his 3-pointer Wednesday, Drew was drawing up a pick-and-roll play that had Horford spaced out on the baseline.
“And he asked me, ‘Do you want me to stay inside the 3 or outside the 3?’” Drew said. “I said, ‘You do what you want to do.’”
Horford doesn’t sound like he plans to open up a new part of his game, although he sounded a confident note about his shot.
“If it’s called for me to be out there, I’ll do it,” he said.
Drew was not terribly keen on the idea.
“I’ve already got one guy I’m trying to (limit taking 3-pointers),” Drew said laughing. “I don’t need two.”.
Astro Joe
March 3rd, 2011
7:08 pm
doc, you’re right, I’ve been a Hinrich fan for a long time. But in the words of Public Enemy, I don’t quite “believe the hype”. I think the players are looking for a “savior” because they want to succeed but don’t know how (or won’t follow the directions of their coaches). So every quote about Hinrich now sounds like something written by a PR manager. I’m waiting for one of his new teammates to call him “gritty and scrappy” (or has that already happened and I missed it). We’re in the honeymoon period when his shooting percentage is immaterial and his frequent bumps and bruises aren’t an annoyance. So I will wait on the other side of those on the verge of nominating him for the Hawks Ring of Honor. I’ll wait on the “this could be a good 100 game run before he hits free agency” chair and will leave it at that. Even after this wonderful defensive surge, I’m still not convinced that this team gets out of the first round of the playoffs. I’m still coming out of a deep, deep state of apathy… give me time to re-discover the joy of fandom. I still have a little “bah-humbug” in me. More games like last night should cure my ills.
Astro Joe
March 3rd, 2011
7:12 pm
nire, I know that late round draft picks are as shaky as cafeteria jello. (Although drafting upperclassmen to fill a specific niche seems like the logical strategy for late round picks). I have no regrets about the trade and remain convinced that the emergence of Horford as the team’s definitive leader may ultimately be the biggest outcome of the transaction. The interesting thing is that the guy who may interfere with the official coronation is Josh.
doc
March 3rd, 2011
7:23 pm
aj, first of all i am not using the out of the first round as a benchmark for this team as teams around us have gone major changes. i hope they get to the second and compete but if they dont wont feel it is a loss if they play hard. i want them to compete at least in all games and hope the additions and subtractions work in our favor.
yes, they are saying the right things only it mirrors what we have seen on the court as well so in my eyes it is a bit more believable. i never believed bibby was the complete package but a very expensive band aide for major flaws created by the constraints of budget, a very public boardroom divorce and a very poor draft choice that put us two years behind in our rebuilding process. bibby had a ceiling when he got here being out of shape because of a thumb injury and promptly hurt himself with an ankle injury. he was a help but not to the degree himrich should be who doesnt have as much of a ceiling. bibby was never the best conditioned individual and his being out of shape after having a thumb injury kind of left me perplexed from the get go.
anyway, sunny astro last year, soaking in the good year versus being bah humbug as these guys persevere coach changes, further f-ups by their fearless leaders in inactivity over the summer, injuries they didnt have last year, a very upgraded eastern conference to boot and perform close to the level win wise they did last year is heroic. so i will go the other way and be a realist and salute them for their good play and be appalled when they dont bring it. i will let their play determine what i feel about them not a pervasive feeling. here is to your recovery.
Ken Strickland
March 3rd, 2011
7:38 pm
OBRIEN-Once again I agree with you 100%.
NAJEH-Why would you have concerns about AHorford shooting jumpshots when he has a 57.3FG%? Teams with strong DEF centers will have to either leave him open to do his thing, or come out on him, which opens the inside for our other players.
While Horford has improved by leaps and bounds as a postup player, he’s still not polished. His ability to shoot and hit a high percentage of his jump shots forces centers to come out and defend him. This takes away the opposing center’s ability to defend the land and provide help DEF in the lane, and gives Horford an advantage when he decides to take them off the dribble.
In case you haven’t noticed, since Hinrich’s arrival, along with Horford shooting and hitting so many jumpers, our OFF rebounding has increased tremendously. Before, we were getting pounded on both boards, and subsequently getting blown out. Just imagine how ineffective the Magic would be defensively if DHoward had to defend Horford outside the key, and how limited they would be offensively if JNelson couldn’t beat Teague and Hinrich off the dribble and dish?
The last time we made trade deadline trade, it also made an immediate and tremendous difference. Acquiring Bibby made us a better team offensively, while acquiring Hinrich has made us a much better team defensively.
Ken Strickland
March 3rd, 2011
7:50 pm
ASTRO JOE-I don’t know if it was a matter of the players not wanting to follow the HC’s directions, as much as not being able to follow his directions, or should I say desires. He wanted them to coverup/overcome Bibby’s obvious OFF limitations and DEF liabilities, and play what amounted to 4 on 5. It because especially difficult when Drew paired Bibby with Jamal, and he wasn’t producing offensively.
I think certain players just got sick and tired of trying to overcome the opposition and the obstacles Drew was forcing upon them, and they simply started reacting with indifference.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 3rd, 2011
10:35 pm
“NAJEH-Why would you have concerns about AHorford shooting jumpshots when he has a 57.3FG%? ”
Read my post again.
O'Brien
March 3rd, 2011
10:36 pm
Its not all on bibby, but he was in the game when the magic went on a run. Orlando went at him on offense, and it led to some open shots for Orlando and arenas.
it will be tough to hide biby so the heat better hope he is knocking down shots.
Meanwhile Miami is melting. After leading by 24, they trail by 7. Ouch.
niremetal
March 3rd, 2011
11:49 pm
Najeh/Ken,
If Josh and Al’s jumpers existed in a vacuum, they might not be bad. But they don’t. When your bigs take lots of jumpers, it affects the rest of their game and also the rest of the team’s game. Like I said awhile back:
JJ and Jamal are #1 and #2 on the team in FTAs/gm. And they aren’t exactly getting there all the time. Al is getting to the line less frequently than Marvin. We’re also 27th in the league in ORebs/gm. Methinks there’s a connection there. We’re actually 14th in the league in DRebs/gm, but our ORebs are so terrible that we’re 24th in rebounding overall.
By comparison, we were 6th in the NBA in ORebs last year. Most of the dropoff is traceable to Josh and Al. Josh and Al are averaging 1.5 fewer ORebs/gm than last year; the team as a whole is averaging 2.4 fewer.
And that’s to say nothing of what having bigs hanging out around the perimeter does for spacing, ball movement, etc.
doc
March 3rd, 2011
11:50 pm
yeah o’b looked similar to days gone by here. interesting commentary about bibby. cred oretty high with love and a standing o from the crowd. we will see as the stats they talked of were from very early in the season and after only ten days, he is out of shape? not, never was, looked like bibby shape to me. even though the mind saoid better for magic to lose the heart didnt mind seeing the three amigos fall.
bosh doesnt look so good right now. still want him for your team nire. i’ll still take josh kamikazee and all. i had a chilling thought, he and dwight end up in brooklyn with deron.
doc
March 3rd, 2011
11:57 pm
enjoying what karl and nuggets doing right now.
vava74
March 4th, 2011
3:43 am
Charley Rosen on the trade and the Bibby situation:
“Kirk Hinrich will do wonders for toughening up the soft underbelly of the Hawks. This guy is as tough as anybody. He can more than adequately defend point guards, shooting guards and even small forwards. While Hinrich isn’t a true knock-down shooter, he’s extremely dependable in the clutch. At the same time, Atlanta’s ridding themselves of Mike Bibby was painless since he can’t guard, can’t get to the rim and his only value is hitting uncontested 3-balls.
Which means that adding Bibby will be of minimal benefit to Miami. Although Bibby used to be a wonderful clutch shooter, all the win-or-lose shots will be taken by LeBron . Overall, Bibby is merely a smarter and slower version of Mario Chalmers .”
O'Brien
March 4th, 2011
8:13 am
Since the trade, these are Bibby’s numbers;
Against Miami, 10 minutes, 0-4 FG, 4 assists, 0 points.
Against Dallas, 19 mins, 1-5 FG, 3 rebs, 4 assists, 2 points.
Against Orlando, 19 mins, 1-4 FG, 0-2 FT, 3 rebs, 1 assist, 3 points.
His average; 16 mpg, 3 ppg, 3 apg, 2rpg, but he has shot 2-13 FG overall.
His assist:turnover ratio is good as usual, but if he is not knocking down shots, he is almost useless.
I was hoping Miami would have won last night though, so Hawks would have gained a game on them..
doc
March 4th, 2011
9:49 am
o’b go back and look at bibby’s numbers for the year. it is like someone shut off a switch on jan 18. since then heh as had only four nights where heh has shot at or above 40% and one of those was two games later. in the mean time he has pitched 6 0-fers where he had only 4 before that date this season, two of them insignificant after only 1 throw a game. man he has decined big time and it was so sudden. maybe it is touch and he will pick it up; right now he is not the 45% shooter they were heralding last night on his entry to the heat arena. he did rebound and set picks well last night. i am not sure that is what he was brought in for.
miami, as far as rebounding as a whole last night, mike miller led the way with 6, bibby with as many as dampier. yup, beatable unless the three heroes dont put their capes back on.
nire, you still want bosh? i wonder what his field goal stats would look like if you rung those up, significantly declined from last year?
doc
March 4th, 2011
9:57 am
do you think any of the other teams and points that will face the heat during the rest of the season were guffawing at the arrogance of the heat in saying wade and labron are good enough to cover their guy and cover up for bibby, too. cant you see the faces of say, rondo or rose or even jameir and maybe even capt kirk and our atlanta hawks on that one lighting up to the challenge and glove thrown before them. yup, the hole gets deeper for the arrogant heat until they deliver.
Astro Joe
March 4th, 2011
10:06 am
doc, are the Heat plannng to play Bibby 28+ minutes/game? I think they will utilize him differently than the Hawks. The Heat have issues that were there before Bibby and will remain after Bibby. Although some (I’m guessing) will choose to cast Bibby in the role of “Galactus: Destroyer of Contending Teams”.
I wonder if a team called Riley this summer and made a strong pitch for either Wade or Lebron, if he would at least listen to their offer?
doc
March 4th, 2011
10:13 am
no to riles giving up that quickly and admitting a mistake. i think that superliner boat (riley’s ego) cant be turned around that quickly, not unless they are tired of one of their super heroes or vice versa.
funny, how the her fans sound as fickle as hawks fans even with their history and present stars. the transplants sure show out at games here. cant wait to see all the queenie and dwade shirts on.