Hawks Fans: Is this change for the better?

In spite of all our sardonic and sarcastic comments, the fact is that as soon as League approval comes through, we can’t say that the Hawks stood pat at the trade deadline. Even if you feel that change was needed just for the sake of change, the reality is that you have to ask: is Sund’s move good, bad, or neither?

Some fans are already losing their collective minds at the idea of giving up Jordan Crawford (not to mention a first round draft pick). Was it necessary to give all this up for a veteran point guard and a young big who seems to be a journeyman early in his career? What about that draft pick (and Jordan Crawford)? Somewhere, Steve Belkin is shaking his head. Or maybe he’s just counting his millions, I don’t know. Like most things, it will be some time before this move is proven to be a good or bad one. In the meantime, does it help the Hawks down the last stretch of the season and in the playoffs?

 

New Parts, Old Parts

Kirk Hinrich figures to be the new starter in Atlanta, and he brings two things to the table: toughness and smart play. He’s got quite the work ethic and is a teammate above all else. Whether you like him or not, he tries to play the game the right way, and isn’t selfish by nature. How will this move go over with his new teammates? Again, time will tell. But chances are, Hinrich won’t contribute to any problems from a negative standpoint. However, it may be interesting the first time he ignores Smith standing around on the wing, or tells him to pass the ball to him, instead of running the break himself. Then again, Hinrich’s speed and propensity for pushing the ball may eliminate the fast break problem. What about Joe, or Jamal? Is either guy going to have an issue with a different point man taking up ball-handling duties? Of course, Jamal and Kirk have played together before under different circumstances.

Now, here’s the other effect on the acquisition of Hinrich – it all but proves the Hawks think more of Teague than they did Jordan Crawford. Now what might that also mean? It means that Larry Drew has to play Teague more. No way do the Hawks see Kirk Hinrich as a long term solution, and Teague is all there is left at the position. Either Drew plays Teague enough to prove the kid can’t (or can) eventually be the guy for the Hawks, or he could find himself in a similar position as Mike Woodson did. It’s not like he could be all that far from it to begin with, seeing as how the team does not appear to be listening to him much right now. Don’t believe that? Just keep checking out the post-game quotes from Drew. One after the other, they make him sound less and less like he has the team’s ear. Would a new point guard change that? What do YOU think?

Meanwhile, how does Hilton Armstrong figure into Atlanta’s big man rotation? The fifth year center/power forward hasn’t seen much time with the Wizards, due in large part to the attention (deservedly so) given to big men Blatche and McGee. But how much of it is Armstrong’s own game? It’s never good when your young career is mostly noted for how many different cities you’ve lived in, but not everybody finds a home right away. Armstrong could turn out to be little more than another trade pawn, or he could make us forget about Josh Powell and Etan Thomas. We’ll just have to see. Considering how things have gone for him this season, Armstrong would probably just be happy if he could keep the same 10 mpg that he got in Washington. But if I’m the Hawks, I hope he yearns for more.

Shows over folks?  

In all likelihood, this will be it for the Hawks until the offseason. While it’s really too early to talk about any offseason stuff, don’t these moves indicate that the Hawks will or at least need to do some re-tooling this summer? What was interesting was the suggestion that other players were shopped while the Hawks were doing their thing. While Marvin Williams has shown up in a rumor or two, names like Jamal Crawford and Josh Smith have been far less prevalent. Sund has already said that the team will be judged on what it does for the remainder of this season, plus the postseason. If Sund is true to his word, then this team will most likely see more changes – possibly more dramatic ones – this offseason, unless there is a better postseason (or at least better evidence of some positive gain) result. That’s not to say the Hawks absolutely must make it out of the second round, which will be a tough thing to do still. But they certainly would provoke change by another second round flameout of apocalyptic proportions, such as has been the case the last two years. The performance of some guys on this roster may determine whether they’re staying or going when it’s all over, and the Larry O’Brien trophy has been handed out.

So what do you think:

1) Was this a good move overall, a move with an eye towards the future?

2) Did the Hawks give up too much?

3) Does Teague not get a renewed/refreshed chance at proving himself?

4) What about Pape Sy? Just kidding…

 

By Big Ray, Hawks Fan Nest

533 comments Add your comment

Tosh.No

February 23rd, 2011
9:14 pm

Big Ray

February 23rd, 2011
9:15 pm

Wow. Poke away by Teague, then he hits the open three on the other end. Not bad, especially after getting blocked on his first shot attempt.

JIm

February 23rd, 2011
9:15 pm

We needed a defensive minded big. Maybe this kid can get some minutes.

Tosh.No

February 23rd, 2011
9:16 pm

Teague has a better upside than Bibby though, hopefully.

Najeh Davenpoop

February 23rd, 2011
9:17 pm

This may be CFTSOC, but I can’t see how it is change for the worse.

Melvin

February 23rd, 2011
9:18 pm

A steal and 3pt shot for Teague on one possesion… Pop Champagne

Big Ray

February 23rd, 2011
9:18 pm

Now that’s the Al Horford we love to see. Drive and dunk.

Melvin

February 23rd, 2011
9:19 pm

Hawks are playing much faster tonight…. Is it the Teague factor?

Dilla

February 23rd, 2011
9:20 pm

They should have kept Jordan Crawford, but on the other hand the Hawks don’t develop young talent. So maybe its better for him. Also the Hawks don’t draft well either so no loss there.

Big Ray

February 23rd, 2011
9:21 pm

Tosh.No ,

What makes it a dumb trade? Elaborate.

As for Teague’s upside, I don’t think he has better offensive upside, considering what Bibby was able to do in the early and prime years of his career. However, if Teague could be 70-75% of what Bibby has done in his prime, he’s got good upside. Why? Because I think his defensive upside is at least 50% better than what Bibby’s has ever been.

Melvin

February 23rd, 2011
9:21 pm

Good start from Teague… We may need to get Armstrong in here at halftime to slow down Lopez

northcyde

February 23rd, 2011
9:21 pm

Big Ray . . this trade shows you that Sund and the ASG are still operating under “let’s make the best deal possible, but we HAVE TO STAY UNDER THE SALARY CAP” philosophy.

It’s a trade that appeases the people that hated Bibby, but may not help us out much more than keeping Bibby. We will see though.

Teague may have no choice but to step up now.

Overall, it’s a C- type trade.

Big Ray

February 23rd, 2011
9:24 pm

Dilla ,

I didn’t want to give up Jordan Crawford, either. But, that’s what the Wizards deal was hinging on, apparently. I think Crawford had some pretty good potential, but would he have turned out to be any better than Jamal? Only time will tell what he will be or won’t be.

If he can take advantage of it and actually show himself to be an NBA player, look for Pape Sy to take that spot. Could be a longshot, though.

Glenn

February 23rd, 2011
9:24 pm

Melvin

February 23rd, 2011
9:25 pm

The pick and rolls are killing the Hawks…

O'Brien

February 23rd, 2011
9:28 pm

northcyde,

You are only giving it a C-? I give it a solid B. Hinrich plays better defense than Bibby, and he will change the dynamics of the starting lineup.

And starting Hinrich is a much better option than starting Jamal (which is what you suggested on the other blog earlier today).

Big Ray,

I wish we could have kept Jordan, becaude now that the Hawks signed Hinrich (who makes more mney than Bibby next year), Hawks will have to let Jamal walk (imo). So we dont have a SG on the roster next offseason. However, I think we can find a veteran minimum SG next season.

I like the trade short term, even it doesnt help us advance an extra round.

Big Ray

February 23rd, 2011
9:28 pm

Northcyde ,

I hear you. I agree on the operation of the organization, too.

One thing I was wondering about tonight is just how much Teague will play. Sure, he gets to start, but that doesn’t mean Jamal won’t get 40 minutes tonight.

Also, if I’m Larry Drew, it’s time to make Teague prove something on the court. Either prove he just needs some more work (this offseason), or prove that he can’t do it for us. But to do that, Drew has to play him at least 20 mpg, if you ask me. No more of these 10 mpg situations, followed by DNPs or games where he can only play if it’s a blowout. Just do it. Because you need evidence to support your decisions. Real game time is the only evidence there is, in my opinion.

Definitely do or die time for Teague.

Melvin

February 23rd, 2011
9:29 pm

Damien looking better than Mo on both sides of the ball…

Jon Koncak

February 23rd, 2011
9:31 pm

Adding Hilton Armstrong to the fold will make people wish I was back playing Center for the Hawks. Armstrong averages 1.8 a game and will probably be out of the league in 2 years. The Wizards just stole the Hawks lunch money. How embarrassing.

Melvin

February 23rd, 2011
9:31 pm

Ray,

Co-sign your 9:28 post….

niremetal

February 23rd, 2011
9:32 pm

CFTSOC FTW!!!!!

Big Ray

February 23rd, 2011
9:32 pm

O’brien ,

I think he has a point about the money side of things, though. Just my opnion.

I do like the acquisition of Hinrich, though.

As for the SG spot, look for us to re-sign Wilkins. Sund is good at re-signing guys that the organization has become familiar with. Wilkins qualifies, and I’d argue he’s an upgrade over Mo Evans.

I don’t think we’ll be too excited with any other additions at that position if they are acquired through free agency. More minimum contracts headed this way, I fear. The only other way is through trade.

Big Ray

February 23rd, 2011
9:36 pm

Melvin ,

I preferred Damien over Mo any day of the week. I think we’ll be seeing him in a Hawks uni next season. Maybe the next two seasons.

I’m no “Teague is absolutely our future” rabid proponent, but Drew better play the kid. Better to prove that we lose games that way, than to simply not do it and not have anything truly substantial to base your claims on. He might want to ask Woody how that turned out.

Will Be at the Game Wed Against Bulls

February 23rd, 2011
9:37 pm

Well I guess this is the best that we could get at this point. This team is NOT built to win a championship. It is built to be a decent team exiting the playoff second round every year. I think this move just as the over reactionary protectionist move that paid Joe $119 Million is designed at keep us competitive but not built to win the big one. Until we get serious by acquiring a true center, ridding ourselves of Marvin W. I see us doing much of the same but as a Fan I will cheer although I know where we will ultimately end up.

Will Be at the Game Wed Against Bulls

February 23rd, 2011
9:39 pm

One more thing LET TEAGUE PLAY. Anyone remember how Rondo struggled early?

Big Ray

February 23rd, 2011
9:39 pm

Defending the pick and roll against Nash/Dragic and the Suns is difficult. But let’s see how the Hawks do with this with Teague in the game.

Speaking of which, Teague is back in.

O'Brien

February 23rd, 2011
9:39 pm

I agree about the salary stuff. hawks will find a way to stay under the cap.

Damien Wilkins is a better SF than Mo Evans, so I’m glad Mo is gone. he can go somewhere else where he can feel under-paid.

Maybe Hawks will sign TMac next season. That will give vava somebody else to talk about now that Bibby is gone :smile:

O'Brien

February 23rd, 2011
9:39 pm

Who would you rather have? Marvin? or Pietrus? Give me Pietrus any day of the week…

Big Ray

February 23rd, 2011
9:40 pm

Will Be at the Game Wed Against Bulls ,

Be that as it may, I think you will feel better about Hinrich guarding Rose, Rondo and others than you did Bibby. And, he can push the ball.

O'Brien

February 23rd, 2011
9:40 pm

Teague got bailed out there. Should have made the pass, but its good to see a PG get fouled in the paint…

Melvin

February 23rd, 2011
9:40 pm

OB,

The Hawks will not have to let Jamal walk this summer. Kirk contract will decrease by 1 mil to 8. Which is Bibby and Mo contracts combine. Plus they traded their 1st rnd pick for next year and thats another mil in savings….

Melvin

February 23rd, 2011
9:42 pm

No ZaZa tonight. Is he about to be traded as well?????

O'Brien

February 23rd, 2011
9:43 pm

And Orlando lost at home to Sacramento. I cant imagine Orlando not making a move by the deadline….A $90 mil payroll and they might finish 5th?

ag

February 23rd, 2011
9:43 pm

Nique is VERY critical of Teague. I listened to him last night. Anytime Teague does not get it to his nephew, he is very critical. Wow, ZaZa on bench..

vava74

February 23rd, 2011
9:44 pm

Teague is playing pretty bad D out there.

And on offense he is still looking to settle down.

Big Ray

February 23rd, 2011
9:45 pm

Hawks look totally dispirited out there at times. Huh. Is that them just being themselves, or are they shook by this trade?

Will Be at the Game Wed Against Bulls

February 23rd, 2011
9:46 pm

There we Go! Teague getting on the inside. Still alot of tickets on Stubhub pretty cheap for the chicago Game

Big Ray

February 23rd, 2011
9:47 pm

Teague is pressing, Drew yanks him…..

O'Brien

February 23rd, 2011
9:47 pm

Teague should have taken that shot.

Am i the only one who doesnt like Josh’s shot selection this game?

doc

February 23rd, 2011
9:48 pm

life is good:”

quote from mark bradley:

“Say this, though, for Rick Sund: At least he did something. At least he acknowledged what had become blatant: This team as constituted had reached its peak and was on the descent. It hasn’t fallen to pieces yet — it’s still fifth in the East — and it’s surely too talent to collapse utterly, but the talent that had been compiled and nurtured by both Knight and Sund has topped out. It needs something else, even if the something else is little more than change for change’s sake.” hmmm, got a note of cftsoc in that missive, no?

whodda thunk it; mark and nire in alignment, saying the same thing. ;-)

seriously, this is probably the best we could have hoped for except the price was too high and is a worse trade than jj for the picks and diaw for what we got back. this was more of a desperate and panic move to throw in a pick, sorry it was and should have ben straight up or accept our stupidity and lick our wounds and move on because this still probably doesnt get us past the first round the ultimate prize this season. the knicks panicked too and gave up too much. the nets, utah and the nuggets made out like bandits in doing what as best for their franchises under difficult situations. we were late to the party as usual. i said it back then, i would have preferred this last summer under better terms as clearly washington had him on the ultimate chopping block with wall on the way.we probably have given up 3 to 5 games with bibby declining rapidly in front of our eyes.

Will Be at the Game Wed Against Bulls

February 23rd, 2011
9:49 pm

No, O’Brien you are right on. He (Josh) also play awful defense before the commercial break.

Melvin

February 23rd, 2011
9:50 pm

Marvin need to drive ball as well…

O'Brien

February 23rd, 2011
9:52 pm

Hawks need Jamal to get going though. he is 1-5.

Marvin is 1-6.

And hawks will not box out. Big 3 by Jamal. he is now 2-6

vava74

February 23rd, 2011
9:52 pm

OB,

Shot selection? What about: 1 rebound, failing to close out (as usual) on Frye, being burned by Hakim?…

Will Be at the Game Wed Against Bulls

February 23rd, 2011
9:52 pm

There goes Marvin Man he sucks I would like to stop talking about CP3 however Marvin is like the kid born from a cheating wife that reminds you every time you see him.

Big Ray

February 23rd, 2011
9:52 pm

Put the kid back in, second half. He has to learn to play through tough spots.

Hawks doing awful on defense, and on the glass.

niremetal

February 23rd, 2011
9:53 pm

I really, truly don’t care about the draft pick. If the season ended today, they’d pick at #22. The guy selected in that spot 10 years ago was Jeryl Sasser. The “expected” type of guy to get at #22 is Oliver Miller. When you’re picking below #20 and your name isn’t RC Buford, it’s dumb luck if you end up getting a guy who turns out to be a regular rotation player for his whole career.

niremetal

February 23rd, 2011
9:54 pm

*”most of his,” not “whole” career

O'Brien

February 23rd, 2011
9:54 pm

Hawks still taking too many jump shots. One good thing about trading Bibby and Mo is the Hawks can say they were “short-handed” when they lose tonight.

Big Ray

February 23rd, 2011
9:54 pm

I remember when some thought Gortat was hardly worth a penny more than Zaza. Well, his athletic, energetic self is killing us.

Now Al gets called for over-the-back. Gonna be tough to get into the half with a single digit deficit.