Hawks move past the break
Just in case you were asleep or otherwise dwelling under a rock (though I’ve heard you still have access to Geico insurance that way), it’s been reported that the Knicks have acquired CarmeloAnthony. Ok, so the rest of the league can get going with any other trades now, right? That may or may not include the Atlanta Hawks, who are apparently at least seriously considering a move for a point guard. Whatever follows over the next couple of days could prove to be interesting. Maybe even for diehard Hawks fans.
Challenge or empty talk?
Rick Sund’s challenge to the players certainly isn’t of Mark Cuban-like proportions. In fact, it sounds more like a challenge to the fans (or any other non-organizational personnel) than to the players. What does a challenge to the team mean at this point? He gave them the best possible comfort zone by “hiring” a coach that they knew quite well. He kept largely the entire roster intact, which meant there was no one to get used to in the locker room. And he wants them to do what, exactly? Act differently than they have before? Excuse me, but where exactly is the challenge in this? Play well, or else? Anybody would flinch at the ire and boldness of the Dallas Mavericks owner (Cuban), who is liable to order his GM to orchestrate a trade if he is unhappy enough. The notoriously slow-to-speak, slow-to-move Sund? Far less likely. Perhaps even more so of his boss (es), who are much quicker to…oh, nevermind.
Suffice it to say that we can likely tell the future. Sund isn’t going to be making any big moves. Perhaps this is as well, as there isn’t likely a big move that could catapult the Hawks past the Eastern Conferences best in the last 30 or so games. Moves like that are usually made in the offseason, or at least with the next season in mind. Just ask the Knicks, who are suddenly looking more star-studded on paper, but aren’t liable to go beyond their current position unless the Magic and Hawks collapse down the stretch (stay tuned).
But, as AJC columnist Jeff Schultz has noted, Sund is traveling with the team during the remainder of their road stretch. So, perhaps that means the organization will at least cast some bait, with a willingness to snatch the rod up if anybody bites. Will it amount to anything? Hard to say.
How serious is the point guard situation?
Again, you’d have to be ignoring all things Hawks-related to not know and hear about the team’s issues at the point. It isn’t just the local media, it’s everybody who has anything to say about Atlanta’s NBA team. What doesn’t bode well for Hawks youngster Jeff Teague is the fact that while every pundit and expert is at least willing to hint at the fact that Mike Bibby isn’t up to the job, practically no one is mentioning the second year point guard as the answer. Some of us disagree, some of us don’t. It is rather interesting indeed if the Hawks manage to find themselves a point guard through trade. Why? Because it isn’t just an indication that Bibby has faded. It’s also an indication that Teague isn’t ready, if nothing else. Again, stay tuned.
The question is, who can the Hawks get, and are they serious enough to “settle” for someone that isn’t necessarily at the top of their list? While many may prefer Devin Harris or Ray Felton, neither guy may be available for what the Hawks could offer (and who really even knows what THAT is). So, it could be Sessions or somebody even less desired, coming to town. Or, maybe nobody at all. Time will tell just how committed the Hawks are to addressing the point guard position for what seems like the millionth time in the last four to five years.
I know this much – if the advent of another point guard on the roster isn’t enough motivation for Teague to do some very serious work on his game this offseason, and come into training camp with a chip on his shoulder – then nothing ever will be motivation enough.
Hawks vs. Lakers
As if playing the NBA champions after the all-star break wasn’t daunting enough, they might actually have some motivation. First, they went into the break with a three game losing streak. On top of that, some are questioning Kobe’s ability to stay on top. Great, as if a League MVP type caliber with a Michael Jordan-esque pride (and capability) needs motivation. The Hawks could be walking into a buzzsaw. Or, they could leave Staples center with the Lakers staring a fourth loss in a row. Want to be against the Champs at home with some things to prove?
The keys to winning this game are few. The Hawks have to get all-star performances from their three team captains. They also need a good performance from their bench. Knowing the Hawks, there really is no way to tell how this may turn out. Fact is, more folks may be paying attention to what the GM does (or doesn’t do) than to what the team does. At least for a couple more days, anyway.
By Big Ray, Hawks Fan Nest
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290 comments Add your comment
Jimmy Crack
February 23rd, 2011
12:57 pm
Still, after all these years, the Hawks are in need of a point guard and a center. DOH!
Keep drafting forwards! It’s all the rage!
They should call them the Atlanta Forwards.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 23rd, 2011
12:58 pm
“Anybody heard from Kevin Ollie?”
Anybody heard from Nick Van Exel?
MannyT
February 23rd, 2011
1:02 pm
The Nets have contract length on their side. If D Will doesn’t give effort, they can deal him next season. However, they have this offseason (in theory–if labor situation ever gets resolved) to get him some help.
If D Will can survive in Utah for several years, I think he can make it in NJ/NY if the team develops.
vava74
February 23rd, 2011
1:09 pm
Najeh,
“…the NBA has a commissioner who all but comes out and says he wants big market teams to thrive, and demonstrates through his actions that he is indifferent to small market teams.”
Did you watch Stern’s All Star press conference? He said that he was actively negotiating with the owners and facing some resistance changes to the revenue distribution in order to level out competition and protect smaller markets.
He also said that this was also the scope of the changes to the CBA which the NBA intended to get agreed with the NBAPA.
Obviously, this coming from a cold blooded lizard like Stern has to be taken with caution, however, the fact is that if all the stars migrate to the big markets and something is not done quickly to prevent that, the NBA will have plenty of empty seats elsewhere and franchises going under…
O'Brien
February 23rd, 2011
1:10 pm
Deron Williams has a player option for the 2012-2013 season, so Nets might only have him for one and a half seasons.
I wonder why Utah didnt trade Deron before Sloan retired? Maybe Sloan would have stayed until the end of the season.
And I think Utah will trade Harris to Denver for an expiring (Butler), and/or a young player/draft pick.
It would be nice to see the Hawks make a trade…I’m tired of being on the sidelines. Get in the game Rick.
O'Brien
February 23rd, 2011
1:12 pm
Big Ray, Mark Bradley weighs in…
http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/2011/02/23/why-the-hawks-still-havent-gotten-past-missing-on-chris-paul/?cxntfid=blogs_mark_bradley_blog/
MannyT
February 23rd, 2011
1:13 pm
@O’Brien…I think Sund is on the verge of signing a D-League PG to a 10 day contract
vava74
February 23rd, 2011
1:32 pm
MannyT,
We don’t even have the roster space to do that!
Najeh Davenpoop
February 23rd, 2011
1:32 pm
“Did you watch Stern’s All Star press conference? He said that he was actively negotiating with the owners and facing some resistance changes to the revenue distribution in order to level out competition and protect smaller markets.”
His actions belie his statements, now that he is about to let a second small market team bolt because the city in question won’t finance a new stadium.
“Obviously, this coming from a cold blooded lizard like Stern has to be taken with caution, however, the fact is that if all the stars migrate to the big markets and something is not done quickly to prevent that, the NBA will have plenty of empty seats elsewhere and franchises going under…”
So many people in basketball love to talk about the “golden era” of the 80s when the Lakers and Celtics had these all time great teams and were doing battle against each other. I wasn’t around then, so I can’t say whether that’s true or false. But looking back at the league then, there were plenty of awful teams during that time period whose lack of talent balanced out the talent on those few “haves”. Would it surprise me to see Stern try to push the league back to that model? No, it wouldn’t.
MannyT
February 23rd, 2011
1:35 pm
On the Mark Bradley blog…
I’m clearly in the moving on past Chris Paul & Deron Williams camp. Yes, we missed that opportunity, but you cannot get stuck on it. Unless someone has access to time travel, I don’t know how to change 2005. However, this might be the biggest reason to move Marvin. Give him a chance to get a fresh start somewhere else. He will never be on the CP3/DWill level…life goes on.
There are several other quality PGs we missed out on since 2005. Even when Teague was drafted, he was in the middle of a run of 5 PGs in a row. Six picks after Teague, Dallas gets Roddy Buckets.
We keep missing. Trade for a PG. That’s how we got Bibby & probably the best route to his successor.
vava74
February 23rd, 2011
1:36 pm
Chad Ford just said that Felton is back in the market and being shopped by Denver.
MannyT
February 23rd, 2011
1:43 pm
@Vava…I think you could convince Gearon to drop Pape Sy for a box of Krispy Kremes. Then you get your roster spot.
Astro Joe
February 23rd, 2011
2:05 pm
Najeh, the economy is obviously much different than it was 30 years ago. Stern’s bosses include ALL owners, not just the big market guys. The value of franchises are shifting in a volatile manner because of the movement of these mega-stars. And this is a slippery slope, today it is the mega-stars, it will eventually work its way down. What if we heard that Josh Smith was eyeing his freedom in a few summers to go join the Nets or Thunder or some other potential Super Friend team? That would likely change the revenues of the ASG just because fans wouldn’t want to emotionally invest in someone with moving boxes in his garage. I don’t know the solution but I’m fairly sure that the 20+ owners who are on the outside looking in will force a “come to Jesus” discussion. I would hate to be the guy trying to sell ad space on local Nuggets game broadcasts today.
“Hi, this is Joe calling from the Nuggets broadcast ad sales team, is this the manager of Elway Chevrolet? Hello? I can hear you breathing… we have a buy 1 get 7 special today… hello? Please, stop laughing.”
Melvin
February 23rd, 2011
2:13 pm
Nire,
Sorry but I think I was on this bandwagon before you… However, let’s all say it together…. CFTSOS…
N.D.T.K.A.
February 23rd, 2011
2:14 pm
I guess now we know what we have in L.Drew: Woody Part II. Avery Johnson, Dwayne Casey, and Tyrone Corbin are looking real good right about now.
L. Drew = Insanity = “doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” Play Teague, sit Bibby and Jamal. Move Josh under the goal.
Rick Sund : Get Hinrich or maybe Aaron Brooks or any decent pg that can penetrate and defend. Move Bibby for anything you can get including giving up our first round pick which you do not know what the he!! to do with anyway! Get a big man or another scorer or anything for Jamal Crawford and that trade exception that we got during the draft.
Michael Gearon stated on 680 and 790 last week that he loves Hawks basketball since he was a kid and has been key in guiding the Hawks to where they are now. If this is true Michael G., do like Arthur Blank and hire a real GM and a reputable coach to put a credible product on the court.
The Hawks cannot identify, develop, coach, or attract talent. This is simply the truth!!!
MannyT
February 23rd, 2011
2:25 pm
This is what I get for being long gone. You know I love a good acronym. What is CFTSOC/S?
niremetal
February 23rd, 2011
2:39 pm
Melvin,
I don’t bother with who gets credit for the idea. I freely admit I was late to that party. That being said, I do want to make clear that I still think the team has the collective level of talent necessary to contend. Horford/JJ/Smoove/Jamal is a very impressive front 4, and for all the flak they get, Bibby, Marvin, and Mo are all guys who would be in the rotation on most contending teams. The problem is that right now, the whole is less than the sum of its parts. The number of guys who have regressed inexplicably over the past two years is just stunning. Marvin started getting worse at a point at which he should have been getting better. Mo went from being a solid starter for a 50-win squad to a ho-hum rotation player within 6 months of his arrival here. Even Bibby could be used more effectively – he remains one of the top PGs in the league at running the pick and roll, but we almost never use him to do that. Zaza? Wtf happened to him? I mean, I know his minutes got cut and that probably messed with his rhythm and confidence, but the dude went from a top backup C back in ‘08-’09 to a borderline scrub this year.
I think the problem is that each of the above guys – along with our Biggish Three – has come to accept their limited respective roles on the team. They have become comfortable with doing what’s expected of them and nothing more. Marvin, defend and spot up; Bibby, spot up; Mo, defend and spot up; Zaza, play physical under the basket; and Jamal, SCORE. That’s all they have ever been expected to do, and it’s all they do.
I think that is because they realize that as long as the Big Three remain together (at least without a Fourth being added who forces them to adjust), their roles will not change. This is a player’s league, and this is the Biggish Three’s team. The problem is that the Biggish Three got used to playing the way they play under Woody for 3 years together (and longer beforehand for Josh/JJ) and their habits and expectations with respect to each other have set in. Unless you do something that jolts the Biggish Three, nothing will change.
I definitely have seen people say “we need to shake things up” before, but most of the chatter I heard was still “we need to improve X or Y.” Ie I remember people saying “we need something better.” I still don’t think we need anything better. I just think we need something different. I really think that in terms of talent and skills, our players have what it takes to contend. They just can’t do it together. Thus, CFTSOC.
niremetal
February 23rd, 2011
2:40 pm
Manny: Change For The Sake Of Change.
MannyT
February 23rd, 2011
2:56 pm
Got it. Thanks.Have some change in appreciation.
In this case, I’d say the change is required to put Bibby’s successor in place ASAP. Also I skeptical that Jamal gets a new deal, so I can live with moving him to get some value. It is true that the new CBA could change things, but as currently constructed, the Hawks need Jamal’s money to pay Al next season (if they are staying under the luxury tax.) Al’s current $ would go toward paying the new PG in 2011-12 season.
Melvin
February 23rd, 2011
3:30 pm
Nire,
I was just poking fun at you (with CFTSOC) but I do agree with your prespective of this team. I would prefer to make changes around our big 3 (Josh,Al,JJ) b/c I think they are a solid 3 to build around. Everyone else is expandable.
Astro Joe
February 23rd, 2011
4:01 pm
I don’t think our Big 3 matches up well with the core of some of these other teams. An incremental change is fine in the next 24 hours but I wouldn’t want to see these same 3 as our long-term plan for a title. This side of the league has gotten too thick with elite pairings to continue to wishfully hope that this threesome can become a better whole.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 23rd, 2011
5:09 pm
I think the current 3 are fine to build around IF the Hawks bring in a point guard or center who is on par with their talent level. Essentially if the Hawks make the current 3 into a “big 4″ they can contend. But if they are just looking to get complementary pieces around the current 3 (like Hinrich) they are not going to go anywhere.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 23rd, 2011
5:11 pm
I hope you’re right, AJ. I’d definitely rather see a league in which every team, small market or big market, has a chance to compete for a title if they make the right picks and sign the right free agents. I just don’t think that’s how David Stern thinks. Hopefully I’m wrong.
niremetal
February 23rd, 2011
5:47 pm
I actually think Hinrich fills enough of our needs – offensively, defensively, and in intangibles – that it could make us legit.
O'Brien
February 23rd, 2011
5:56 pm
Portland is pushing hard for Gerald Wallace from Charlotte…
Do we have anything to offer Denver for Felton?
niremetal
February 23rd, 2011
6:24 pm
O’B,
I’ve read in a couple places that Denver is not interested in moving Felton…
At first I thought maybe we could get in on the Wallace deal, but Portland has the ability to give Charlotte the bare minimum in expiring contracts to get Wallace, and Charlotte wants to take back the bare minimum right now because they are in even worse financial straits than the Hawks. The Cats would be saving a good chunk of change by accepting Przybilla/Mills/picks instead of Crawford/picks for Wallace. Prz/Mills are making $8.3M this year compared to $10.1M for Jamal. Considering the ‘Cats financial state and the fact that the Hawks are a division rival, I don’t see why they’d deal with us instead.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 23rd, 2011
6:28 pm
Kirk Hinrich to Hawks is almost done.
vava74
February 23rd, 2011
6:28 pm
6:20
SpearsNBAYahoo: Wizards guard Kirk Hinrich close to being dealt to the Hawks in multi-player trade, source tells Y! Sports. [via Twitter]
Najeh Davenpoop
February 23rd, 2011
6:33 pm
“Portland has the ability to give Charlotte the bare minimum in expiring contracts to get Wallace, and Charlotte wants to take back the bare minimum right now because they are in even worse financial straits than the Hawks. The Cats would be saving a good chunk of change by accepting Przybilla/Mills/picks instead of Crawford/picks for Wallace. Prz/Mills are making $8.3M this year compared to $10.1M for Jamal.”
If the Hawks also take back Nazr Mohammed and his expiring contract, they could send out Jamal/Mo/Powell to Charlotte and take back Gerald Wallace and Nazr Mohammed, which would save $3.3 million off Charlotte’s team salary this year. Considering that Mohammed would instantly become the Hawks’ best big man off the bench, this would actually help the Hawks on the court too.
The huge advantage to getting a guy like Wallace and adding another very good defender to the Hawks’ front court, is that with LeBron and Carmelo in the East playoff picture, Wallace would be able to D them up.
Of course, Wallace is getting paid $10.5 million next year, and along with the $9 million owed to Hinrich next year, that will push the Hawks pretty far into luxury tax territory (assuming the new CBA has a luxury tax).
Najeh Davenpoop
February 23rd, 2011
6:35 pm
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=47cya5t
vava74
February 23rd, 2011
6:38 pm
I think the deal will include Marvin. Who in WAS is expiring? Anyone?
vava74
February 23rd, 2011
6:42 pm
Al thornton, josh Howard, yi, Nick Young
doc
February 23rd, 2011
6:46 pm
AJ you think we get our wish from this summer, henrich?
ob it only took deron willoams to get d harris. guess we came up short there.
well if hawks no bwtter the teams coming to the phillips have gotten a lot more interesting as the balance swings east.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 23rd, 2011
6:50 pm
The rumor is that it is Hinrich for Jamal. I would ideally prefer that they expand it beyond that.
niremetal
February 23rd, 2011
6:54 pm
As long as we don’t get Blatche or McGee, I’ll be thrilled. No really, I would be. A pass-first PG who can defend and who never takes a play off? I know his stats are just so-so, but he would seriously be a great fit. JJ would no longer have to chase around opposing PGs all day, we wouldn’t have to choose between a shooter and a defender down the stretch, and there actually would someone on the floor who gives 100% all the time.
We go through so much crap trying to cover for the fact that Bibby, Jamal, and (yes) Teague couldn’t defend a comatose turtle, and it exhausts the entire rest of the team.
niremetal
February 23rd, 2011
6:56 pm
Najeh,
Charlotte still has the ability to trade Nazr for a cheaper expiring player. If they were interested in moving him, they’d have plenty of takers. Sorry, but like with Deron, GW was not happening. Other teams can offer “better” packages in terms of the other teams’ needs.
vava74
February 23rd, 2011
7:03 pm
multiplayer means more than 2.
So Hinrich – Jamal but according to previous reports WAS was keen one of our youngsters.
Given the fact that they have Nick Young (but expiring) Jordan would seem to be a secondary and non logical option in comparison to Teague (who would be behind Wall).
Maybe Young is too much of an headache and they don’t want to keep him.
niremetal
February 23rd, 2011
7:09 pm
Alex Kennedy now:
http://twitter.com/#!/alexkennedynba
The Atlanta Hawks and Washington Wizards are nearing a deal that would send Kirk Hinrich and Hilton Armstrong to Atlanta in exchange for Mike Bibby, Maurice Evans and Jordan Crawford. The trade hasn’t been finalized, but the deal is expected to be completed before tomorrow’s deadline.
Wha? Hilton Armstrong? Because we really need yet another mediocre center? I’d much rather part with Jamal and go straight up, and I’m sure the Wizards would prefer that too. But maybe that’s too much to hope for…
niremetal
February 23rd, 2011
7:09 pm
Link: http://twitter.com/#!/AlexKennedyNBA/status/40561893953388544
vava74
February 23rd, 2011
7:13 pm
Dang, it seems that it is Jordan instead of Jamal… With Mo and Bibby…
vava74
February 23rd, 2011
7:17 pm
nire,
you jinxed it when you said anyone but Blatche and Javale…
At least Hilton can jump, dunk and throw elbows. Zaza, as he is currently playing is bringing us shame and disgust with his 2” vertical and being blocked by just about everyone
Astro Joe
February 23rd, 2011
7:17 pm
Hilton Armstrong may easily be the worse player over 6′9″ in the NBA. But I won’t complain about the cauliflower on the side if the main dish is a heaping serving of Hinrich.
Najeh, I agree with you… a big 4 (maybe). I like Hinrich and he will surely improve the team… beyond a shadow of a doubt (when healthy). But even this move doesn’t guarantee a 2nd round appearance this season.
doc, I’m almost ready to sprout a grin, but I will resist until I see an official announcement. Just our luck, Armstrong will strain his looonnngggggg neck muscle and we won’t do the deal.
vava74
February 23rd, 2011
7:18 pm
I hope that they move Jamal too…
vava74
February 23rd, 2011
7:21 pm
Semi-official:
daldridgetnt Wiz trading Hinrich/Hilton Armstrong 2 ATL 4 Jordan Crawford, Bibby, Mo Evans, first
Hinrich held out from tonight’s game and Hawks’ players informed as well.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 23rd, 2011
7:24 pm
At least one source seems to say that Cleveland might also be added into this deal. Maybe Sessions is also on the move?
Astro Joe
February 23rd, 2011
7:25 pm
It would be kind of funny if they traded Jamal & Marvin and for Dalembert & Garcia and we look up Thursday evening and have a legit starting PG (Hinrich) and center. It won’t happen, but it would be kind of funny (and would leave me at an eat crow buffet). But man, I’d pour some BBQ sauce on that crow and would enjoy every bite (while licking my fingers clean).
Astro Joe
February 23rd, 2011
7:26 pm
Another one:
SpearsNBAYahoo Marc J. Spears
Wiz close to trading G Kirk Hinrich & C Hilton Armstrong to ATL for G Mike Bibby
vava74
February 23rd, 2011
7:26 pm
Apparently Cleveland is involved.
Could it be Hinrich + Sessions in a deal which would imply Jamal and Bibby leaving?
Astro Joe
February 23rd, 2011
7:26 pm
Oops:
SpearsNBAYahoo Marc J. Spears
Wiz close to trading G Kirk Hinrich & C Hilton Armstrong to ATL for G Mike Bibby, F Mo Evans, G Jordan Crawford & a No. 1 pick, source says
vava74
February 23rd, 2011
7:29 pm
Now we just need to get the Hawks to move back to Saint Louis and ask to play in the Western Conference!!!!!!!!