Hawks move past the break
Just in case you were asleep or otherwise dwelling under a rock (though I’ve heard you still have access to Geico insurance that way), it’s been reported that the Knicks have acquired CarmeloAnthony. Ok, so the rest of the league can get going with any other trades now, right? That may or may not include the Atlanta Hawks, who are apparently at least seriously considering a move for a point guard. Whatever follows over the next couple of days could prove to be interesting. Maybe even for diehard Hawks fans.
Challenge or empty talk?
Rick Sund’s challenge to the players certainly isn’t of Mark Cuban-like proportions. In fact, it sounds more like a challenge to the fans (or any other non-organizational personnel) than to the players. What does a challenge to the team mean at this point? He gave them the best possible comfort zone by “hiring” a coach that they knew quite well. He kept largely the entire roster intact, which meant there was no one to get used to in the locker room. And he wants them to do what, exactly? Act differently than they have before? Excuse me, but where exactly is the challenge in this? Play well, or else? Anybody would flinch at the ire and boldness of the Dallas Mavericks owner (Cuban), who is liable to order his GM to orchestrate a trade if he is unhappy enough. The notoriously slow-to-speak, slow-to-move Sund? Far less likely. Perhaps even more so of his boss (es), who are much quicker to…oh, nevermind.
Suffice it to say that we can likely tell the future. Sund isn’t going to be making any big moves. Perhaps this is as well, as there isn’t likely a big move that could catapult the Hawks past the Eastern Conferences best in the last 30 or so games. Moves like that are usually made in the offseason, or at least with the next season in mind. Just ask the Knicks, who are suddenly looking more star-studded on paper, but aren’t liable to go beyond their current position unless the Magic and Hawks collapse down the stretch (stay tuned).
But, as AJC columnist Jeff Schultz has noted, Sund is traveling with the team during the remainder of their road stretch. So, perhaps that means the organization will at least cast some bait, with a willingness to snatch the rod up if anybody bites. Will it amount to anything? Hard to say.
How serious is the point guard situation?
Again, you’d have to be ignoring all things Hawks-related to not know and hear about the team’s issues at the point. It isn’t just the local media, it’s everybody who has anything to say about Atlanta’s NBA team. What doesn’t bode well for Hawks youngster Jeff Teague is the fact that while every pundit and expert is at least willing to hint at the fact that Mike Bibby isn’t up to the job, practically no one is mentioning the second year point guard as the answer. Some of us disagree, some of us don’t. It is rather interesting indeed if the Hawks manage to find themselves a point guard through trade. Why? Because it isn’t just an indication that Bibby has faded. It’s also an indication that Teague isn’t ready, if nothing else. Again, stay tuned.
The question is, who can the Hawks get, and are they serious enough to “settle” for someone that isn’t necessarily at the top of their list? While many may prefer Devin Harris or Ray Felton, neither guy may be available for what the Hawks could offer (and who really even knows what THAT is). So, it could be Sessions or somebody even less desired, coming to town. Or, maybe nobody at all. Time will tell just how committed the Hawks are to addressing the point guard position for what seems like the millionth time in the last four to five years.
I know this much – if the advent of another point guard on the roster isn’t enough motivation for Teague to do some very serious work on his game this offseason, and come into training camp with a chip on his shoulder – then nothing ever will be motivation enough.
Hawks vs. Lakers
As if playing the NBA champions after the all-star break wasn’t daunting enough, they might actually have some motivation. First, they went into the break with a three game losing streak. On top of that, some are questioning Kobe’s ability to stay on top. Great, as if a League MVP type caliber with a Michael Jordan-esque pride (and capability) needs motivation. The Hawks could be walking into a buzzsaw. Or, they could leave Staples center with the Lakers staring a fourth loss in a row. Want to be against the Champs at home with some things to prove?
The keys to winning this game are few. The Hawks have to get all-star performances from their three team captains. They also need a good performance from their bench. Knowing the Hawks, there really is no way to tell how this may turn out. Fact is, more folks may be paying attention to what the GM does (or doesn’t do) than to what the team does. At least for a couple more days, anyway.
By Big Ray, Hawks Fan Nest
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290 comments Add your comment
Big Ray
February 23rd, 2011
3:34 am
Hinrich is a jumpshooter who can penetrate, and who is a very smart player. Foot speed is not an issue, and the guy even guards SGs, not just PGs.
I think the defensive versatility and the heady play alone is worth it. Then, use Hinrich as your veteran guard to rely on as Teague (or whoever is the future at this position) gets his chops. It works better than having Bibby as the non-defending backup who isn’t too good with penetration.
Of course, the point remains that none of this works if Jamal continues to get starter’s minutes and Teague is not allowed to run amongst the wolves, for the sake of finding out if he’s predator or prey.
Big Ray
February 23rd, 2011
3:36 am
I fear, however, that we end up “settling” for Sessions. Or a ten day contract type. Or no one at all.
Anybody heard from Kevin Ollie?
vava74
February 23rd, 2011
6:39 am
I just saw the 4th quarter of last night’s game.
Teague held is own pretty well against Blake which is far from being a scrub.
He got baited into a foul but it was not a completely stupid one and had 1 bad defensive rotation.
IMO he had several very good plays in which he got the ball to players in a good position to shoot and if Powell, Mo and Zaza had not missed their shots/got blocked or fouled, he could have finished with 6 or 7 assists for the quarter.
I am well passed the point that I will make any effort to watch the Hawks unless something major happens before Thursday.
As for Hinrich, I did not meant to say that he was flat footed, but his penetrating skills are IMO only passable. Anyhow, I think he could be a terrific starting PG who could shift to SG when necessary.
And please please please, let us get rid of Jamal.
O'Brien
February 23rd, 2011
7:04 am
A team loss last night, but I think LD shoulders a lot of the blame.
“I just thought we settled, which is starting to be a pattern with us”.LD .
See, its quotes like this that make me doubt LD, and I’m wondering if he is overmatched. He said it is starting to be a pattern. It started being a pattern from when Woody was here.
Players get jumper happy, dont drive to the hoop, and hang their heads when the going gets tough. They have been doing it all year, but yet LD said it is starting to be a pattern? C’mon Man!
And what else does he need to see to make some kind of change? I know his options are limited, but the status quo is not working. Its insanity what he is doing. Trotting the same team, the same rotation out there game after game, and hoping for a different result.
Start Jamal instead of Bibby, start Teague instead of Bibby, give JC2 some of Jamal’s minutes, give Damien some of Marvin’s minutes, play Marvin at SF with Al at PF (bring Josh off the bench)…at least try something different, anything.
And if it doesnt work, at least you can say you tried.
O'Brien
February 23rd, 2011
7:09 am
As for the players, lots of blame to go around too. Just to name a few…
Josh: 1-7 on jumpers outside the paint (I’m glad LD is getting him to establish himself inside the post first..SMH at LD).
Bibby: 16 minutes, 0-3 from the field, 0 points, 0 assists (could Teague have done any worse in 16 mins)?
Powell: 10 shot attempts in 15 minutes (he was 2-10). Was he trying to impress the Lakers?
Marvin: Up and down as usual, ZaZa being ZaZa…and the list goes on.
What was interesting is the Hawks only had 6 turnovers, but the Lakers had 18. And we still lost by 24 (and would have been worse if LA hadnt emptied their bench).
G.Rhone
February 23rd, 2011
7:47 am
It simply amazes me that the Hawks gave JJ a max contract, but yet he can make statements like “We gave them too much respect….” Are you serious? This team has a very long way to go!!!
niremetal
February 23rd, 2011
8:48 am
It’s a small quibble, I know, but people keep saying Hinrich is 31. Unless I’m doing my math embarrassingly wrong, though, he just turned 30 (DOB 2 Jan 1981).
niremetal
February 23rd, 2011
8:51 am
If the Hawks miss out on Hinrich because they refuse to include JC2, Teague, and/or their sub-20 draft pick, I’m gonna effing scream. The only guys on the roster who should be off-limits in such a deal are JJ, Al, and Josh.
Astro Joe
February 23rd, 2011
9:18 am
nire, I agree.
I don’t always get stuff right, but going to bed at halftime was a BRILLIANT decision on my part. This team is unworthy of a sacrifice of my sleeping time.
When LD says stuff about taking too many jumpers during the course of an entire game, he is essentially admitting that he has lost control. I get how it may be hard to change behavior during a specific time interval, like late in the 4th quarter. That time comes and goes too quickly to make adjustments. But to say that the entire agame (or let’s say first 3 quarters) were lost because the team “settled”, is to say that you couldn’t (or didn’t) do a dang thing about it. How could he have been here for 6 years and believe that this team was capable of self-discipline? How? WTF was he doing that made him think that they had the mental focus to “do the right thing”? I’d be more willing to accept this kind of misunderstanding from an outsider, not someone who was sitting on the front row for 500 games with most of this sacred core.
Outwardly cerebral? How about potentially delusional?
Astro Joe
February 23rd, 2011
9:20 am
Of the names mentioned yesterday, I put them in this order of preference:
Hinrich
Felton
Sessions
Harris
I don’t think we need flash and dash, just steady performance on both ends of the court. This team needs a calming influence, not another hot/cold kind of players.
vava74
February 23rd, 2011
9:26 am
nire,
on Hinrich’s age, I merely reproduced an information from someone else without checking.
my bad.
that makes him young enough to warrant “a package” with picks + youngster(s) but I would still like to keep Teague but I doubt that WAS has any use for Jordan in light of Nick Young’s game.
I would ship Marvin and some filler if they took him.
Melvin
February 23rd, 2011
9:49 am
Prior to season started, LD champion that his offense system was different and never been seen before. I’m willing to bet after he finish coaching the Hawks, it will never be seen again….
O'Brien
February 23rd, 2011
9:51 am
For some reason, I thought Hinrich was 31.
AJ,
I agree with the order of your PG preference. And if the Hawks dont want to give up a young player and/or pick, I think its just another case of Rick Sund overvaluing his assets.
All Rick Sund has to do is ask himself these 2 questions.
Of the Top 8 teams in the East, and top 8 teams in the West;
1) On how many of them would Jason Collins be the starting center?
2) On how many of them would Mike Bibby be the starting PG?
I think the answer to both questions is 0. Hawks need to make a move. They should have made it over the offseason, but better late than never.
Although Rick Sund is travelling with the team, I wouldnt be surprised if he is on vacation (I’ve heard Cali and Phoenix are great places to visit).
O'Brien
February 23rd, 2011
10:04 am
Melvin,
With the way the season has gone (and I know its still early), LD is looking overmatched. And he is only making $1.5 mil next year, so I think he will be on the hot seast next season.
nire,
Josh Smith is shooting 19% from 3 for the month of February. What has happened to his improved jumper?
doc
February 23rd, 2011
10:06 am
the cream rises to the top or it doesnt aj
now cya coach speak.
O'Brien
February 23rd, 2011
10:10 am
By the way, these were the post game comments from 2 of our captains.
“We didn’t have that fire, that competitive nature that we need. It’s frustrating, man. I don’t know what to do.” JJ
“We really have some soul-searching to do as a team. It’s discouraging.” Al.
It sounds like the coach or the players dont know what to do. But havent we heard these kind of comments before? Somebody needs to save the coach and/or the players from themselves.
According to MC, the Hawks have 5 losses this year of more than 20 points. For a team thats a top 4 contender, that’s crazy…
Melvin
February 23rd, 2011
10:16 am
I think the Hawks will need to make several moves to become an elite team but I don’t expect them to do it before the trade deadline. They need to at least make one move before the trade deadline that will keep them in the position for homecourt in the 1st round of the playoffs (like aquire a player they would like to keep going forward). Then in the offseason, make other moves that will break up the current core and rebuild this team. Also, bring in a new coach. This is still BK team and its time to move in a different direction…
niremetal
February 23rd, 2011
10:40 am
Seems almost pointless to post this today for some reason, but why break with tradition?
Josh’s jumpers watch update:
vs. Det: 7-12 (1-3 on 3s)
vs. NYK: 3-9 (0-3 on 3s)
vs. LAL: 1-7 (0-2 on 3s)
Total: 11-28 (1-8 on 3s)
FG%: .393
eFG%: .411
eFG% vs. season avg: -.021*
vs. ’09-’10 avg: +.126
———————————————————————
It seems like 82games hasn’t updated the shot selection stats in awhile, because Josh’s eFG% on jumpers this season has been displayed at .439 for the last month, and it seems highly unlikely that it hasn’t changed at all. So instead, I’m now using Hoopdata’s info on shot location, and am counting all shots taken 10 feet from the basket or further as “jumpers.” According to Hoopdata, Josh’s FG% on such shots is .379 and his eFG% is .432.
kwooden
February 23rd, 2011
10:51 am
I couldn’t bring myself to post last night and I really don’t have much to say right now. LD’s current rotation isn’t working, especially Jamal coming in as the backup PG. This team looks terrible if they aren’t making jumpshots and JJ is the only one that can penetrate and draw the defensive. I wouldn’t mind getting Kirk, but I actually would rather see Teague start. Because if you can’t move either Jamal or Bibby to get a PG (Kirk, etc), then your stuck playing either one of those guys. At that point you still won’t know what you have with Jeff.
vava74
February 23rd, 2011
11:04 am
It’s quite funny that the Nets ended up getting a better deal than the Knicks…
vava74
February 23rd, 2011
11:05 am
Nets just snatched Deron Williams
vava74
February 23rd, 2011
11:06 am
Favors and Harris to Utah
niremetal
February 23rd, 2011
11:10 am
Huh.
niremetal
February 23rd, 2011
11:18 am
I mean, Favors/Harris is better than any package we could put together that doesn’t include Horford. But why the hell would Utah make that deal??
Melvin
February 23rd, 2011
11:21 am
Possibly, Deron to the Nets for Devin and Favors….WOW
Melvin
February 23rd, 2011
11:22 am
Deron must have really pissed some folks off in Utah…
Melvin
February 23rd, 2011
11:24 am
We have superstar/all NBA type players being traded and the HAWKS want to keep their core intact that havent made it past the 2nd round.
niremetal
February 23rd, 2011
11:30 am
If we get a new starting PG in a trade, I can live with it. I’d rather see a trade that moves one of our big three (read: Josh), but it might be that we can’t get even close to value in that type of trade. I’m still all for CFTSOC, but not if the best we can get for Josh is someone like K-Mart or Rip Hamilton.
niremetal
February 23rd, 2011
11:53 am
I see the D-Will trade as a disaster for both of the major teams involved. Favors has upside, no doubt, but the Jazz already have too many PFs, and I don’t see Favors turning out better than Jefferson. And of course, D-Will >>> Harris. Maybe it makes sense if they now turn around and trade both Harris and Jefferson in an effort to clear cap space, but otherwise.
For the Nets…I mean, do they really think D-Will and Lopez are enough to build around? Because that’s basically all they’ll have if they just traded away their lottery picks. A friend of mine just suggested that maybe the Nets just really wanted to get a star after they missed out on Carmelo, and D-Will fits the bill. Ironically, they’ll be a team with a top 5 PG and arguably a top 5 center, but they won’t be able to get anywhere because they are so weak everywhere else and don’t really have the capacity to improve.
niremetal
February 23rd, 2011
11:54 am
I suppose the Jazz are playing Jefferson at C and Millsap at PF, but still…Millsap has a pretty fat contract and he’s still pretty young. Maybe Favors has it in him to play C, but do you make a trade on that hope and a prayer?
Astro Joe
February 23rd, 2011
12:01 pm
I could see the Nets thinking that they have the dynamic PG that the Knicks are missing. Lopez has regressed this season, does he even get 6 boards a game? And I agree, Jefferson, Favors and Millsap seem like a whole lot of beef in a fairly narrow lane. I suspect Jefferson is the next to go.
Astro Joe
February 23rd, 2011
12:02 pm
Sorry, I didn’t see nire’s post before I submitted mine. Yeah, those 3 don’t seem to fit. No floor spacing whatsoever.
Melvin
February 23rd, 2011
12:04 pm
Nire,
Neither one of those team were going to win as currently constructed. Both rid themselves of disgruntle players for some value. I could see DWill (and Harris on a smaller scale) forcing their current teams hand to trade them like Melo. The new CBA agreement will be interesting b/c the current CBA seems to give the players more leverage than the owners. And I’m not saying that a player shouldn’t have any say where he likes to play but I’m seeing a disturbing trend that many of the superstar players are running to the big market teams….
Melvin
February 23rd, 2011
12:08 pm
AJ/Nire,
Maybe those three (Favors, Jefferson, Milsap) and Okur becomes a pretty good front court rotation. With Favors playing some spot mins at C for certain matchups. Oh well, maybe the Hawks should pursue Okur….
Astro Joe
February 23rd, 2011
12:11 pm
I’ll tell you this… Joe may not be an All-Star next season. And the next “Super Friends” team should be done out in the West, because the influx of talent on this side of our great country has been ridiculous in the past 6 months. Has the East lost an elite talent (top 20-25 player) since last season?
Astro Joe
February 23rd, 2011
12:14 pm
Has the East lost an elite player (top 20-25) since last season? If I am looking for the next Super Friends team, I’d go out West. And Joe Johnson, you may have just lost your all-Star slot to Mr. Williams next season.
Astro Joe
February 23rd, 2011
12:16 pm
Amar’e, Deron, Carmelo and Boozer have all moved right on the map. I can’t think of a top 20-25 player who has moved left since last June.
MannyT
February 23rd, 2011
12:17 pm
How many ATLiens wish that Prokorov had bought out the entire Atlanta Spirit now?
Utah may not be done dealing. Draft picks and a lot of front court talent…and a HUGE (over $17 mil) expiring contract for AK47. They have options.
On the home front, I doubt anything big happens via trade, but we’ll bounce back and get a good win on this trip. It’s the inconsistent team that we have.
Melvin
February 23rd, 2011
12:20 pm
MannyT,
That Russian is not a Billionaire by luck. He drove up the price for Melo and then made a great deal to get Deron…. SMH, I would prefer him over the ASG any day….
Astro Joe
February 23rd, 2011
12:24 pm
Gearon recently promised an “entertaining NBA product”. It looks like that will come in the form of the opposing Eastern Conference team. Of course, watching other superstars win by 20 isn’t exactly encouragement to spend $100 at Philips Arena, huh?
Melvin, no way they fire LD in the summer.
Astro Joe
February 23rd, 2011
12:30 pm
If given a choice, I’d choose Deron over Melo. I’m probably one of few who would, but having a top 5 PG seems more important than having a top 5 SF in today’s NBA. And he got Deron for FAR less than what was being asked for Melo. Now, he has to get Deron to stay beyond next season.
vava74
February 23rd, 2011
12:31 pm
Utah will move someone. Guaranteed.
And I think they move 2: Harris to Dallas (as he wants to) for Beaubois + someone else promising + someone for cap value value coming from a 3rd team with Jefferson (?) involved in the deal.
Jefferson has again amassed the stats but not enchanted anyone.
nire,
I assume that the motivation in Utah was to cut their pay roll down to close to zero and to simply off load a disgruntled and fatter by the day Deron.
As for NJ, I think it was a genius move by Prokhorov. If they manage to get Lopez to rebound the ball and play some D the combo PG-C they have is very good and, as you know, the easiest positions to fill are the wing positions.
SG and SF are a by the dozen and Humphries is a passable – for the moment – PF which rebounds like a maniac.
niremetal
February 23rd, 2011
12:33 pm
Melvin,
Take it from a guy who’s had plenty business dealings in Russia: Prokhorov may not have gotten to be a billionaire by luck, but he also didn’t get there by merit. He had a lot of help from a guy whose last name rhymes with Tootin’.
vava74
February 23rd, 2011
12:34 pm
Astro,
I am with you, Deron over ‘Melo hands down.
However, he is fat like a seal. Maybe he was bored and disinterested but the fact is that UTAH had 2 players many coveted around here (Jeff and D-Will) and were underachieving just like we are.
My guess that Sloan will be back on the bench for their playoff run now that fatso is out of the way
vava74
February 23rd, 2011
12:38 pm
Nire,
“Prokhorov may not have gotten to be a billionaire by luck, but he also didn’t get there by merit”
It’s obvious that Prokhorov had plenty of help but have you read how he started?
Producing and selling jeans on a jeans starving country and then, by the time he had some money he was involved in dealing with selling something that I don’t remember to a Ieltsin’s run government which being bankrupt basically gave him mine ores to pay off the debt.
He had the smarts and then had the cold blooded nature necessary to capitalize on that with a few skeletons dug deep somewhere.
Astro Joe
February 23rd, 2011
12:39 pm
Melvin, while this is better for the NBA (stacking players in the major markets), there will be about 20 owners crying during the owners’ meetings. I suspect that some version of a (NFL) franchise tag will be put on the table. Maybe a team can retain the rights to a single player for at least 1-2 years… essentially delaying their free agency status but guaranteeing a max-type contract during that 1-2 years. The troubling thing is where these incumbent teams have done nothing wrong, Denver (as an example), offered Melo the world, the owner has been living in luxury land and they recently made the Western Conference Finals. Yet Melo walked anyway. Same was true in Cleveland. It’s one thing if you’re playing for Sterling and you want a chance to win elsewhere, it’s another when your owner and fans do all they can and you still opt to “take your talents to…” Again, good for the league as an overall entity but bad for the majority of owners and their individual balance sheets. With TV revenues locked in (I assume), having more viewers watching in the NYC market in the next few months won’t do much for the Denver or Utah owners who will have more empty seats for the remainder of the season.
vava74
February 23rd, 2011
12:40 pm
Word is out that D-Will is not happy with the trade!
If that is not overturned NJ will have Mr. Fatso and Mr. No Rebound as their core pieces.
niremetal
February 23rd, 2011
12:50 pm
Vava,
No doubt the dude is smart and has good business instincts. That made him a millionaire. But it was coziness with Putin that allowed him to get lots of mini-monopolies in his industry (monopolies that sometimes were enforced by hired thugs without the niceties of due process). That’s what allowed him to add the last couple zeroes to his net worth.
vava74
February 23rd, 2011
12:54 pm
nire,
sure, but isn’t that the case with the lobbyists ($$) in DC as well?
the only difference is that lobbying is less bloody…
Najeh Davenpoop
February 23rd, 2011
12:55 pm
“I suspect that some version of a (NFL) franchise tag will be put on the table. ”
I’d be surprised if that actually happens, though. The big difference between the NFL and the NBA is that the NBA has a commissioner who all but comes out and says he wants big market teams to thrive, and demonstrates through his actions that he is indifferent to small market teams. The NFL on the other hand prizes their parity-enforcing structure. Sure, some owners may want a franchise tag in the NBA, but I doubt that David Stern will let it happen unless there is overwhelming support (which there won’t be).