Hawks fans: When is patience no longer a virtue?

Are you thinking what I’m thinking? If it’s “here we go again,” then we’re thinking the same thing.

Another fourth quarter collapse. Another quick point guard doing the Hawks in. Another set of typical quotes from two of the team’s captains. Another vein of frustration popping out of the coach’s forehead. Perspectives from AL, Larry, and Joe are becoming the norm these days. But that is not the problem at all. The problem is that those perspectives haven’t changed one bit, because the situation has not changed.

Patience, patience

That’s why management preaches. That’s not what you’re hearing from Head Coach Larry Drew, though. No, what we’re hearing from him is long-suffering. There is a fundamental difference between the two. Patience is realizing that a non-lottery draft pick might need a bit more work than a lottery draft pick. Patience is understanding that a new offensive philosophy or a new rotation player added to the mix takes some time to develop. Patience is doing the best you can as a team while waiting for injured starters to heal.

Patience is not making the same exact mistakes again and again, despite the fact that you should know by now (after 2 or 3 years) what will cause you to lose the lead in a game. Why is shot selection still an issue?

The Usual Suspects, The Usual Results

Joe Johnson is the best player on this team and the guy you want to have the ball in the worst situations. How does he end up taking only two more shots than the team’s sixth man, and seven less shots than the team’s worst perimeter shooting starter? You can criticize Joe for taking too many jumpers if you choose. But the fact is, Joe is a shooter and scorer. You WANT him to shoot.

Jamal Crawford is a streak shooter. Either he’s good, or he’s bad. There is little middle ground with Jamal. Do you want him to shoot? Yes. It’s what he does. But you have to understand that shoot is what he’s going to do, whether he’s on or not. On the other end of the floor, there is nothing to balance things out, plain and simple. The good news is that Jamal does know how to get to the line.

Now for the self-made whipping boy, Josh Smith. Josh has gotten to where he can make shots from the outside. The problem is that in his mind, can is the same as will. Smith’s early season perimeter success has eroded on a near day-to-day basis, and I truly believe that much of this has to do with him trying to establish his offense outside first, instead of inside. The problem with this is that it’s the exact opposite of what his coach has been trying to tell him. And there it is – Josh not listening again. Still. When will this change? Will it change?

Taking Notes

Rick Sund says the Hawks like their core, and that they are going to be patient with the team. But when is patience no longer a virtue? How long can the Hawks afford to stay with the status quo? We’re not talking about making random changes here. We’re talking about fixing actual problems. When do the excuses run out? How long is ownership and management going to take an “Oh, it will be fine” stance?

Maybe Sund should start taking note of the things some of his most valued players are saying. Maybe he should pay attention to the words coming from the mouth of the very man he “hired” to change that which has not changed. Sooner or later this will be simply too much. Sooner or later regression takes hold for good, until something significant is done. The Hawks keep saying it can happen from within, but can it? They say they’re aware of the main problem. A couple of wins go by and all is somewhat good. Then the inevitable happens and it’s back to the same quotes, the same hanging heads, the same shrugging shoulders.

Perhaps Al Horford said it best :

“I guess when it gets to a point where it hurts you and really bothers you, then you do something about it. I don’t know that we’re there as a team yet.”

Does it hurt the team enough yet, or have they passed the point of where they are collectively aware (translation: are there guys who simply don’t care enough)? How about management? Are there enough guys on the floor to fix the situation, or does the fix have to come from higher? More than ever, it seems that this questions leans harder towards the latter, rather than the former.

Flip Side of the Coin

Not all is gloom and doom. At the very least, the Hawks have gotten past the injury bug for the moment. Al Horford looked like he didn’t miss a beat against Milwaukee, hitting 7 of 9 shots and adding another nice double double to his collection. Meanwhile, Marvin looked rather effective coming off the bench. This is certainly good news for a Hawks team that may need to experiment a bit more to find the best possible chemistry that it can, seeing as how the schedule will only get tougher.

273 comments Add your comment

Big Ray

January 28th, 2011
9:25 pm

And Douglas makes an arse of Jamal yet again.

Knicks getting back into it with….defense? Come on guys. This is one epic fail that I just couldn’t take. Somebody get Damien Wilkins in there.

Big Ray

January 28th, 2011
9:27 pm

That was awful. Joe pounded it almost in place for several seconds…followed by a missed jumper.

Big Ray

January 28th, 2011
9:28 pm

Jamal and Hawks bailed out by a lucky bounce…

Want more luck? Knicks are one of the few teams more likely to jumpshoot themselves in the foot worse than us.

Astro Joe

January 28th, 2011
9:31 pm

OK, the starters had to put things back in order. Joe had one of those “iso-flashbacks”. Let’s hope that is behind him now.

Astro Joe

January 28th, 2011
9:32 pm

Where do we get a Landry Field? Pick #31?

Astro Joe

January 28th, 2011
9:33 pm

Josh doesn’t need to look at LD after shooting in the paint.

Astro Joe

January 28th, 2011
9:37 pm

Big Ray

January 28th, 2011
9:37 pm

Glad to see the Hawks still trying to grind it out from inside out. Hawks need to hang in there and pressure the Knicks. Felton and Stoudamire are going to work on us, and it ain’t pretty.

Astro Joe

January 28th, 2011
9:40 pm

Wow, LD benched Jamal for Marvin. Good for him. Big shot for Josh.

Big Ray

January 28th, 2011
9:41 pm

I can’t lie. I did NOT want to see Josh shoot that 3 ball.

But he hit it.

He also went Michael Jackson as he went down the court after hitting it…..that won’t be on the highlights…

Big Ray

January 28th, 2011
9:42 pm

Yeah, that was most certainly a good move by LD, AJ

niremetal

January 28th, 2011
9:49 pm

And Josh decided to take a contested fadeaway there…why?

Big Ray

January 28th, 2011
9:50 pm

GREAT block by Al Horford

niremetal

January 28th, 2011
9:50 pm

WHOA. What happened there?

Big Ray

January 28th, 2011
9:50 pm

WHOA…what just happened.

Astro Joe

January 28th, 2011
9:52 pm

Maybe Sund knew that Marvin would be missing games and signed Damien. Wow!

niremetal

January 28th, 2011
9:52 pm

What got into Marvin? He was having a good game. It looked like Shawne Williams said something to him, but I can’t figure out why on earth he’d decide to shove him in response in that situation.

Big Ray

January 28th, 2011
9:55 pm

I’ve never seen Marvin like that. Ever. Clearly he was pissed off.

Looks like some minor nudging/pushing as Marvin Williams and Shawne Williams went down the floor. Marvin then elevated it to shoving (along with some words), and Shawne came back at him. Then the punches started.

Looks to me also like Marvin got nailed before they went up the floor (during/after Horford’s block on Stoudamire). Marvin had had enough.

Big Ray

January 28th, 2011
9:56 pm

Right or wrong, Marvin seems like he was in “I’m not going to get punked” mode.

niremetal

January 28th, 2011
9:58 pm

Horford was right there, but it looked like he didn’t realize what was going on until they were already throwing punches at each other. MC will HAVE to get us the scoop on that.

Big Ray

January 28th, 2011
9:59 pm

Whoooeeee. Well, that’s that.

I may be wrong for saying this, but I’m glad to see Marvin show some fire, even if it was misplaced (but was it?), or rather mis-executed. He played well tonight. Well enough to finish the game.

Astro Joe

January 28th, 2011
9:59 pm

Yeah, we haven’t seen that much fire out of Marvin sense, well, we haven’t seen that much fire out of Marvin ever. I hope his head doesn’t explode.

Big Ray

January 28th, 2011
9:59 pm

‘Night y’all. Looking forward to the scoop on this tomorrow, LOL

Big Ray

January 28th, 2011
10:00 pm

Dang good performances by Joe, Al, Josh.

Big Ray

January 28th, 2011
10:07 pm

It’s gonna hurt not having Marvin for tomorrow’s game. I have no doubts that he will be suspended.

Watching the replay yet again….LOL…Marvin was like a teased dog…dude was peeeiiiisssed!

niremetal

January 28th, 2011
11:55 pm

My guess on what got Marvin pissed: Shawne is in favor of healthcare reform and Marvin isn’t. (h/t to NineOhTheRino at Hawksquawk).

Btw Ray – what’s up with the blog font? For some reason all my posts are showing up in bold. Just on this page, not on MC’s blog or any others.

dap01

January 29th, 2011
8:26 am

What is the direction of our team? Has anyone figured it out?

niremetal

January 29th, 2011
9:37 am

Josh’s jumpers watch update:

vs. Cha: 2-5 (0-0 on 3s)
vs. Mil: 1-9 (1-5 on 3s)
vs. NY: 3-4 (2-3 on 3s)

Total: 6-18 (3-8 on 3s)
FG%: .333
eFG%: .417
eFG% vs. season avg: -.022
vs. ’09-’10 avg: +.132
———————————————————
I didn’t count an in-the-paint turnaround jumper that he airballed down the stretch because, well, it was in the paint. It was terrible shot selection, though.

O'Brien

January 29th, 2011
11:41 am

AJ,

Douglas was a 2 time all-defensive ACC team member. And the fact that he was a senior means he had way more experience than JT0. Hindsight is 20/20, but based on what we need (and are not getting) from Teague, Douglas might have been the better pick for us.

O'Brien

January 29th, 2011
11:50 am

I’m happy for the win, but disappointed in the way we let the Knicks back in the game. Our starters played heavy minutes, but it hasnt bothered them all year (we’re something like 11-3 in the second night of back to backs).

Too bad the Pistons didnt take care of the Heat (missed an alley-oop dunk in the final seconds), but Orlando lost, so we pick up a a game on them.

Marvin is the least important player out of our top 7, so his suspension shouldnt hurt the team much.

As for the Dallas game tonight, I look for Dallas PGs to have huge nimbers against Bibby, but I think Hawks will hang around and have a chance to win.

Ken Strickland

January 29th, 2011
12:49 pm

At this juncture in the season, it’s become obvious that LDrew intends to rely heavily on Bibby as his starting PG, so to continue complaining would be beating a dead horse. I hope Marvin’s ultimate suspension doesn’t go into effect tonight, because with CButler out, he’ll provide us with an advantage at SF.

Since JKidd and JTerry aren’t big on driving the lane, maybe Bibby will have an easier time on DEF. JJ is really playing well. Not only is he scoring more, he’s doing it more efficiently while still leading the team in assists.

doc

January 29th, 2011
5:06 pm

ken i guess that serves as your mea culpa on the teague saga and strategy and riches you saw in him this summer with the new coach. ;-)

thus far, teague doesnt have what it takes to stay on the court, there have only been faint suggestions he gets it thus far. it wasnt just all about woody, sorry it wasnt. still young and should have been a senior at wake building his game and confidence and carrying a team. shame we took him instead of a few others available at the time he was taken. he is all the more wealthier for it. hope he invests well and is frugal.

well marvin had a pretty good game with reasonable numbers and found his lost dog too while he was away. whodda thunk it, marvin the enforcer?

Astro Joe

January 29th, 2011
5:57 pm

OB, remember a few days ago Teague said something like “no one has told me what I need to do to get consistent minutes”? I suggested at the time that he was probably not accurate with that statement. And then a few days later, MC empties his notebook and LD is talking about how he tells Teague how to use his speed to play the game on both ends of the court (I’m paraphrasing).
So what’s the deal? LD is willing to tell MC but not the player? Doubtful.

Again I ask, who is conductung these interviews during the pre-draft workouts?

Hawks need a really good 48 minute effort tonight against a very good team. Let’s see if they bring some fight with them to Dallas.

O'Brien

January 29th, 2011
7:56 pm

AJ,

Let’s assume LD hasn’t said anything to Teague. He told MC what he expects from Teague because MC asked him.

IF LD has not said anything to Teague, that also means Teague is not going to LD and asking him what he needs to do.

If you are a new hire/young executive at a company, and you really want to impress your new boss and co-workers, but nobody is telling you what you should be doing, aren’t you going to see your boss?

Aren’t you going to ask questions like what are the company’s expectations of me, what can I do to help, what do I need to improve on etc.

Teague needs to take some initiative and go see LD (imo).

But it does make you wonder about the pre-draft interview. I wonder if the same people who interviewed Teague for the Hawks also interviewed Marvin?

O'Brien

January 29th, 2011
8:46 pm

Mavs are going at Bibby almost every time down…

O'Brien

January 29th, 2011
9:34 pm

7 minutes, 0 points, 3 fouls for Bibby

6 minutes, 5 points for Teague.

Teague needs to keep it up, because if he plays like this consistently, it will be hard for LD to not give him more PT

O'Brien

January 29th, 2011
11:22 pm

Hawks have lost 18 games so far this season. Out of those 18 losses, there have been 9 games where we failed to score more than 19 points in the fourth.

At Orlando, 19
Verses Utah, 17
At Miami, 16
At Detroit, 19
At N.O., 15
At OKC, 15
Verses N.O., 14
At Bucks, 15
At Dallas, 13.

We cannot win games where we struggle to score in te fourth, especially since our defense is horrible.

This is very similar to what happened to the hawks last year. I guess the motion offense does not work during crunch time, because there alot of ISOs in the fourth.

niremetal

January 29th, 2011
11:26 pm

Josh’s jumpers watch update:

vs. Mil: 1-9 (1-5 on 3s)
vs. NY: 3-4 (2-3 on 3s)
vs. Dal: 1-4 (1-3 on 3s)

Total: 5-17 (4-11 on 3s)
FG%: .294
eFG%: .412
eFG% vs. season avg: -.027
vs. ’09-’10 avg: +.127

JOE

January 30th, 2011
1:54 am

Screw the fans.Joe Johnson is laughing all the way to the bank.

N.D.T.K.A.

January 30th, 2011
2:08 am

No one talks about the Hawks defense. L.Drew’s problem is he is trying to outscore opponents. Defense wins championships as the cliche goes.

For all the good Mike Bibby has done this season as a PG and a knockdown shooter, he make the Hawks predictable and mucks up a lot of the chemistry when he is on the floor. For example, good teams know to score against the Hawks play pick-and-roll basketball with Bibby’s man (usually the pg) and Bibby can’t cover. Bibby either switches or they move Joe or Mo over to the other teams PG. This messes with the rest of the team trying to recover on defense. Just play Teague take the lumps and let him learn. Teague can develop his jumper in the off-season. Let him play and learn and live with the growing pains at least Teague can defend his man.

Also, with Josh playing at SF and the fact that he is an excellent passer keeps Josh on the perimeter too much. I think Josh feels intimidated by Al playing in the PF spot. This again is L. Drew’s fault. Make Josh get on the block and overpower most of the other smaller SF he plays against.

Larry Drew is the problem when the team is not focused and fall back on similiar bad habits. L.D. said at the beginning of the year guys would be held accountable for not playing defense. What happened to that? Offense is fine, the Hawks need to stop falling in love with jump shots!! Take the ball to the hole!!!

Even playing half-a@@ basketball the Hawks can beat 70% of the teams with offense and athleticism. Just think if they played good team defense and a some disciplined basketball, they would probably be a top five team in the league and a much higher seed in the East.

Ken Strickland

January 30th, 2011
3:50 am

Over the last 5gms our starting PG has averaged 28.2MPG, 6PPG, 3.1PPG, and is 2-6 in FT’s. We can’t be anything but inconsistent as long as LDrew insists on giving so many mins to someone that’s providing so little offensive production and even less on DEF. While Drew is playing mind gms with Teague, and jerking him around with limited mins and inconsistent playing time, Bibby is starting to disappear before our eyes, and he’s hurting the team.

vava74

January 30th, 2011
5:53 am

Rod,

Your arguments are basic and lame.

So, poor little Jamal was always in the middle of rebuilding franchises…

“Valuable” young players are not traded when teams are rebuilding, they stay as part of the rebuilding procedure.

He was DUMPED by all of his teams: DUMPED.

“Guys who are not good never get 10 million in this league”

Are you f*cking kidding? Do you want me to make a list of players worse/even more detrimental than Jamal who earned huge out of proportion pay checks?

E. Curry, D. Coleman, S. Francis, S. Marbury, Jerome James, B. Haywood, JR Rider, Glenn Robinson, … you name it.

You could build 10 rosters just in the last 10/15 years with overpaid players whose talent=actual contribution assessment was WAY WRONG.

Jamal is one of them: he is talented, but ultimately detrimental if overly used (no more than 20 minutes per game and that is already a stretch for a solid playoff team and 10/15 minutes max for a ECF candidate).

vava74

January 30th, 2011
6:00 am

Last night was another perfect example of Jamal’s contribution:

2nd game in the last 3 in which he plays the WHOLE 4th quarter and the Hawks score only 15 points or less.

36 minutes, 11 points and 0 (ZERO) helpvalue (assists+steals+blocks+rebounds – turnovers).

12 minutes in the 4th: 0-1 FG 0-1 3ptFG 2TO 1stl

Dept. of Unintended Idiocy

January 30th, 2011
9:41 am

Guys who are not good never get 10 million in this league

So I’m guessing you’d also agree that guys who are not at least above average never get $7.5M in this league, right?

niremetal

January 30th, 2011
10:09 am

The final tally for JJ in January:

26.0 ppg, 4.8apg, 4.5 rpg
.504 FG%, .548 EFG%, .584 TS%, .354 3P%, .823 FT%,

Rod from College Park

January 30th, 2011
11:18 am

vava74,

“Your arguments are basic and lame.”

But they are facts not speculation.

“Valuable” young players are not traded when teams are rebuilding, they stay as part of the rebuilding procedure.

Yeah, the great Joe Johnson, Chauncy Billups, Ray Allen, Jason Kidd, Al Jefferson, Tracy McGrady, Steve Nash (most Valuable player)……… come to mind. Guess none of these guys were valuable huh. (LOL)

“He was DUMPED by all of his teams: DUMPED.”

Actually he was traded.

“Guys who are not good never get 10 million in this league”

If you are going to post something as a quote from me, it’s not a quote if you change it. You stated, “He is soft, desinterested/unable to play D, poor decision maker, … You name it.” I simply responded to your quote by stating that players with all those negative qualities usually don’t command 10 million per year in the NBA. All of the players you listed don’t have all those negative qualities either. Again your opinion of Jamal was speculation and not fact.

“Jamal is one of them: he is talented, but ultimately detrimental if overly used (no more than 20 minutes per game and that is already a stretch for a solid playoff team and 10/15 minutes max for a ECF candidate).”

I would compare Jamal on our team, to Vinnie Johnson from the Pistons championship teams. Guess what? He played over 25 mpg during their run. His field goal percentage during their championship years was 46% one year and 43% the another year. Not much difference than what Jamal does for us as a 6th man whose job is to come off the bench and score. I don’t recall Vinnie being a great defensive player either. I guess Chuck Daily had no idea what he was doing. Again you make another stupid statement which is not factual.

“Last night was another perfect example of Jamal’s contribution:

“2nd game in the last 3 in which he plays the WHOLE 4th quarter and the Hawks score only 15 points or less.”

There have been numerous games that Jamal has played the WHOLE 4th quarter, and was one of the main reasons that we won the game. Why post 2 games and try to validate your argument. Let me help you out. Jamal playing the whole 4th quarter was not the reason we lost those 2 games (LOL). Bad shot selection, ISO basketball, our point guard not being able to get us into our offense early in the shot clock, and poor coaching would be my guess.

Your arguments are speculation and not based on any basketball knowledge or fact. You, and your Ringling Brothers partner DOUI, should continue to post ignorance because you surely are some CLOWNS.

Big Ray

January 30th, 2011
11:48 am

I don’t know what’s up with the font on this blog.

But I do know that Rod has had some very effective arguments with Vava.

Big Ray

January 30th, 2011
11:50 am

Dept. of Unintended Idiocy

January 30th, 2011
9:41 am
Guys who are not good never get 10 million in this league

So I’m guessing you’d also agree that guys who are not at least above average never get $7.5M in this league, right?

okay…if you can’t laugh at that, then you just DO NOT have a sense of humor.

Rod from College Park

January 30th, 2011
11:56 am

Big Ray,

It was clever. Too bad it was not a quote. It was a made up quote by a Clown.

niremetal

January 30th, 2011
12:34 pm

Lemme try something here.

Bold
Not bold.