Atlanta Hawks: Jumpstarting with jumpshots

The Hawks have to be asking themselves just what happened last night. The answer: a beating in their own arena that probably has the Utah Jazz feeling a bit better about the one they received at the hands of Hawks a short while ago.

There are other teams that have similar roller coaster-type seasons, but does that make Hawks fans feel any better about it? Doubtful.

 

Getting the offense going

The motion offense couldn’t possibly be just for getting open jumpshots. I’m sure that Drew and his staff also intend for the Hawks to get the ball inside. Getting the ball inside isn’t just about posting somebody up. It’s also about getting a player to slash to the basket, and receiving the ball on the way there. The Hawks haven’t done enough of that lately, and they certainly didn’t do nearly enough against the Hornets.

Instead, the Hawks shot jumpers. On most nights, somebody is hitting those jumpers. Last night? Pretty much nobody. I’m sure the neighborhood “jumper” watch could dig up the information on who hit how many outside shots last night, but with the team shooting a dismal 29% from the field, would there really be a point? Try as the Hawks might, they couldn’t buy an outside shot to save their lives. Few attempts were made to score inside. Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, and Jamal Crawford were just about the only ones to try and go inside prior to the game being blown out. Unfortunately, Johnson ended up double-teamed and fouled (but no fouls called), and Smith endured similar struggles, what with New Orleans playing some pretty tough defense as well. Crawford found a modicum of success in getting to the basket on one or two trips, but managed to dribble himself into trouble more often than not. So what was the solution? More jump shots, to no avail. That’s the only problem with living and dying by the jumper. But then, could the Hawks have done any better with the personnel they had? By the look of it, it was simply an off night, and teams have those. The Hawks were also bereft of two major rotation players in Al Horford and Marvin Williams. Would things have gone much differently with both guys, or was the team simply in its worst funk of the season?

 

Post Problems

 The Hawks have a good deal of size in Jason Collins (7′0″, 255), Zaza Pachulia (6′11″ 270), and Etan Thomas (6′10″ 260).  None of the three are unwilling to mix it up down low. What this group lacks, however, is athleticism. It’s just one more reason why not having Al Horford hurts. When Jason Collins was unfairly ejected for a Flagrant 2 foul (the call was BS, I don’t care what anyone says), it only exacerbated an issue that the Hawks were already having – rebounding.

The Hornets weren’t shooting very well until the middle of the second quarter. What they were doing well was rebounding. In fact, they blew the Hawks out of the water with a 55-32 advantage on the glass. With Collins gone and others ineffective, Josh Smith looked to be fighting for rebounds all by himself out there. They needed more energy, if nothing else.

Which begs the question, why wasn’t Etan Thomas in the game earlier, and more often, especially with Collins out for the night? Out of the three backup centers, I’d argue that Thomas is the most athletic, which would have helped with rebounds.

Young Guys

It must have been contagious, this “jumperitis”, because Jeff Teague took more outside shots in the game than I can recall seeing from him. Like everybody else, he couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn. Jordan Crawford’s attempts were no surprise at all (hey, he hit a 3), and he had the best play all game when he picked off a pass and threw down an alley oop dunk on the other end. It was nice to see him get some burn, but we all know he’ll be on the shelf again until the next blowout.

 

UP NEXT

Atlanta has to get past their worst home loss since who knows when, as the travel up to Charlotte for another chance at padding that road record. The Bobcats aren’t who they used to be, but they’ll play the Hawks tough all the same.

The Usual Suspects

Penetration – The Hawks always have issues with this. Charlotte point guard DJ Augustin is among the quickest in the league, so Atlanta has its work cut out. Also, containing slasher Gerald Wallace is usually an issue for the Hawks.

Rebounding – Charlotte doesn’t have a player that averages 8 or more boards per contest, but they are still outrebounding opponents 41.9 to 39.3 on average. They’ll be without the services of jumping-jack Tyrus Thomas, but Gerald Wallace is capable of snagging upwards of 15 rebounds on any given night. In addition to that, the Hornets have 6 guys who are producing between 4 and 6 rebounds every game, so the Hawks will need a total team effort to win this battle. With Horford and Williams out, the Hawks are missing roughly 15 rebounds a game, production-wise. 

 More rebounds means more possessions, which means more scoring opportunities. Rebound well, and the Hawks have a great shot at winning the game.

Jumpers, Jumpers, Jumpers!

The Bobcats are not big on scoring. With an offense that averages less than 93 points a game, it’s tough to win in this League, even if you have a stellar defense. To put things in perspective, DJ Augustin is shooting better (43.8%) than the two guys ahead of him in the team scoring column (Stephen Jackson 40%, Gerald Wallace 42%).

By contrast, the Hawks have more perimeter oriented talent. However, if last night was any indication, falling in love with the jump shot (especially when it ain’t lovin’ you back) is a good way to lose a game to a team that can’t score. If the Hawks go inside to Smith and post Johnson up here and there, things should go well, as both guys should put up 20+ points apiece. However, if the team fails to do this and the jumpers are once again not falling, then the Hawks could be looking at a low scoring loss of anywhere from 5 to 10 points.

Defensive Matchups

We might cringe at the idea of Mike Bibby and Jamal Crawford taking turns trying to keep up with the elusive DJ Augustine, but what about Wallace and Captain Jack? Joe Johnson may end up matched against Jackson, or he could have the task of keeping Wallace from going off. Whichever he draws, Mo Evans will end up guarding the other guy. Evans will give the effort, but how ironic is it that we finally get him in a position to play his more natural spot of shooting guard, only to find him in a situation where he’s got a choice of larger small forwards to guard? Sometimes you just can’t catch a break….

The multi-talented Boris Diaw will likely be matched up against Josh Smith. Smith’s tasks for the evening will be simple:

1) Do not let Diaw outrebound and out-hustle you.

2) Force him to pick up his dribble and cut off his passing lane. He’s third on the team in assists.

3) Take Diaw to the basket every chance you get. Don’t settle for the open jumper unless you’re in rhythm, have established your presence inside, and the defense is giving you NOTHING else.

 

Your Keys to the Game?

Let’s hear ‘em!

 

 

By Big Ray, Hawks Fan Nest Blog

136 comments Add your comment

dap01

January 22nd, 2011
8:29 am

Larry’s instructions:

Hey Bibby, just pass the ball and go over there and stand.
Also, don’t really worry about defense.

If you look at successful NBA teams, you realize that the Hawks do not share many characteristics.

No Penetrating and dishing PG
No dominant defense in the pivot.
Offense that relys on jump shots.
No ability to break down a defense.

Geaux Hornets!

January 22nd, 2011
8:35 am

Hornets owned the Hawks last night…guess, it should be expected that regardless of the “bird”, the Hornetsor Saints rules these pathetic franchise…..I loved being atthe game and watching the sorry bandwagon fans boo their own team – how sorry is that….bottom line, you are NOT AS GOOD as the HORNETS…..100-59…what a disgrace and embarrassment for Atlanta…..

Big Ray

January 22nd, 2011
11:07 am

Oh, look. A Hornets fan. Zzzzz…..

Big Ray

January 22nd, 2011
11:10 am

Dap01 ,

On the one hand, I agree that we have all those holes. On the other hand, it in no way explains why we have a winning record. Winning is success, is it not? But, I’m guessing you’re like the rest of us – we want more than just a team with a winning record, right? :)

NOLA sucks

January 22nd, 2011
11:17 am

I think the Hornets are about to leave New Orleans soon so enjoy the win your trash heap of a city wont even have a basketball team just the sorry Aints

Big Ray

January 22nd, 2011
11:19 am

Actually, that may be true. I wouldn’t be out celebrating too much with an owner like George Shinn looming in the background…

nash

January 22nd, 2011
12:31 pm

you all ways hear about it but you never think it can happen. Dwayne Wade broke Al Horford’s ankle

O'Brien

January 22nd, 2011
12:35 pm

I think northcyde made a good point on the other blog. Horford might be the most important player on this team.

If Smove is out, Al can play some PF. If Marvin is out, Josh and JJ can play some SF. If JJ is out, Jamal and Mo can play some SG, and if Bibby is out, Jamal can play some PG. Plus given how Bibby plays, we don’t need a traditional PG as much.

But if Al is out, we are stuck with ZaZa, Twin and Etan at Center. Does anybody really trust them for 48 minutes?

As for the game, it still looks like this team is soft. Where is the leadership on the court to get everybody fired up? This loss is embarrassing, especially after what happened in the playoffs to Orlando.

But typical Hawks, they will find all kind of excuses, and then go out and beat Charlotte, and pretend like everything is fine.

It WAS a BAD pick

January 22nd, 2011
1:03 pm

“But if Al is out, we are stuck with ZaZa, Twin and Etan at Center. Does anybody really trust them for 48 minutes?”

No. That is why larry drew was wanting Shaquille o’Neal. I kept hearing back in the offseason/preseason that the center position was fine. I guess we didn’t account for injuries to Al Horford. And whatever happened to the folks who keep saying that Pachulia is one of the best backup centers in the NBA. I still do not see how anybody in their right mind can say that.

E43

January 22nd, 2011
1:18 pm

I will never buy a hawks ticket again if jeff teague and josh powell dont play a combined five minutes against the bobcats.

O'Brien

January 22nd, 2011
1:25 pm

Last season, Hawks lost both games in Charlotte. One by 20, and one by 9. but this season, we have been very good on the second night of a back to back. And given the embarassment last night, I think our guys will be ready to play.

it was a BAD pick,

ZaZa used to play better, especially when he got extended minutes. But his level of play has fallen off dramatically over the last 2 months.

ATL FAN

January 22nd, 2011
2:42 pm

dap01, those are some pretty specific instructions telling Bibby what to do… I don’t get people that constantly blame the coach… there are only a little elite coaches in the league, the rest are just there. These are elite players, they play and practice the way they have been their whole life. The only thing a coach can change is the style of offense, as with Coach Drew, and the type of defense (2-3 zone, etc). He can not, however, control Bibby’s age and why he’s poor on defense. He can not control the fact that we have no true PG. He can not control the fact that our players stand around and wait for someone else to get the rebound, because all he can do is TELL THEM, they are the ones that PLAY. BLAME THE PLAYERS NOT THE COACH FOR A GAME LIKE YESTERDAY

Big Ray

January 22nd, 2011
4:11 pm

E43 ,

I’d say that’s a safe bet. Then again, we may not see Powell at all against the ‘Cats. Teague, I’d expect to see. Augustin is going to give Bibby/Crawford fits.

niremetal

January 22nd, 2011
6:28 pm

Ray,

Since Powell just got suspended by the team, I’d say it’s a safe bet we don’t see him play 5 minutes tonight.

http://twitter.com/#!/HawksPRGuy/status/28952271186300928

Don’t know what happened. But so much for any delusion that he could provide locker room leadership.

Ray

January 22nd, 2011
6:30 pm

@ Big Ray

haha if we even get to see Teague at all LD puts him and Jordan Crawford up on the shelf way to often if we expect them to become the answers to CP3/Deron Williams/Rajon Rondo/Nelson/ or whoever in this league. Then they got to get some burn in the legs.

I’ll be one of the people that won’t blame last nights loss on Teague or JC2 what did you honestly expect them to do? lol seriously it’s like throwing someone into a cage with lions did you really expect them to survive and be able to save us like superman just saying.

O'Brien

January 22nd, 2011
6:40 pm

The problem with this team, is we are built on jumpshots. And if they are not falling, we are like a fish out of water.

Our PG cannot breakdown a defense, or penetrate to get easy shots or get fouled, we dont have someone who is capable of playing with their back to the baskets, and we dont have a dominant post player.

And we dont have the right mentality.

niremetal

January 22nd, 2011
7:32 pm

The Bobcats’ announcers keep talking about how Crawford is only averaging 1 assist per game. Kind of odd that no one has corrected them since he actually is averaging 3.5.

Astro Joe

January 22nd, 2011
8:38 pm

Zaza has played well tonight. I hope Powell’s teammates know what he did that led to the suspension. I don’t need to know, but they need to know.

Astro Joe

January 22nd, 2011
8:40 pm

OB, did you hear Rathburn say something like we’ve scored the 4th lowest points in the paint this season? It was something like that… something that quantified how much of a jump-shooting team we’ve become.

Astro Joe

January 22nd, 2011
9:01 pm

Teague Time!

Astro Joe

January 22nd, 2011
9:09 pm

Well, I guess after last night, LD wasn’t going to take any chances.

O'Brien

January 22nd, 2011
9:21 pm

AJ,

And a big part of it is mindset. When the Hawks make a conscious effort, they have some success at times in the paint. But they give up easily.

A 16 point game, and no Teague. It’s like LD has already decided that Teague is just not good enough to play this season.

Astro Joe

January 22nd, 2011
9:28 pm

OB, sometimes, a coach will play a guy in his hometown or near the city he played college ball. I truly expected Teague to get time tonight, especially once it was a 19 point game with around 3:00 left. Oh well. I’m just glad that Joe wasn’t badly hurt, let’s hope nothing tightens up over the next few days.

niremetal

January 22nd, 2011
9:46 pm

Josh’s jumpers watch update:

vs. Mia: 2-10 (0-3 on 3s)
vs. NO: 3-7 (1-1 on 3s)
vs. Cha: 2-5 (0-0 on 3s)

Total: 7-22 (1-4 on 3s)
FG%: .318
eFG%: .341
eFG% vs. season avg: -.098
vs. ’09-’10 avg: +.056

O'Brien

January 22nd, 2011
10:49 pm

Good win for the Hawks. But I’m not surprised, because for whatever reason, they play well on the second of back to backs. I think they are 11-3 in those games.

nire,

Earlier in the season, Josh developed a reputation of shooting a much higher percentage on his jumpers. Although he is tailing off recently, I think it will be overlooked based on his success early in the season.

AJ,

Maybe Teague really sucks in practice. but whatever the reason, Rick and LD need to address the backup PG position this offseason, especially if they let Jamal walk.

Big Ray

January 23rd, 2011
6:13 am

E43 ,

No more Hawks games for you….

Big Ray

January 23rd, 2011
6:25 am

I like how the Hawks ground that one out. Like anybody else, I hope Joe Johnson suffers no lingering effects from that fall. MC said he’s not one to complain about being hurt, so you know how that goes.

Johnson was brilliant last night, gotta say that. Great to see him back in all-star form.

Nice to see Zaza have a decent game in the pivot. I’ll take 9 points, 8 boards, and 2 steals from the backup center in 28 minutes.

How about Mike Bibby coming up big with 8 boards as well? Sometimes you need your guards to get in there and grab some of those loose rebounds. Mike was sweet from deep again, too.

Quality minutes from Damien Wilkins as he provided defense and rebounding.

I’ll be glad to have Horford back Wednesday, if it’s not too early.

Am I missing something, or is the development of young players (more specifically Jeff Teague) something Woodson got knocked for on his way out, by even the owner(s)? I wonder how Gearon and Sund see this situation? Are they even paying attention? Hello? Hello? Is this thing on?

Big Ray

January 23rd, 2011
6:30 am

Doesn’t make me feel any better about the bad loss the other night, but the Hornets are clearly on a mission.

They pounded the freakin’ Spurs by 24 points last night. Say whaaaaat? Get this: nobody on the team scores as high as 20 points. Hell, CP3 only had 11 points/6 assists. But the New Orleans bench tore the Spurs a new one. I mean, it was nasty.

And of course, the Hornets also beat the devil out of the Spurs on the boards, 57 – 32. Wow. Okafor/West/Ariza combined for 30 rebounds by themselves.

Can you imagine having Okafor at the 5, with Horford at the 4?

Big Ray

January 23rd, 2011
9:14 am

Meanwhile, we can’t catch Chicago. Rose is on another planet altogether, and now he has help (Deng,Boozer).

Cutty

January 23rd, 2011
9:41 am

We need to trade Josh Smith. Golden State wants a shotblocker and they are willing to trade Stephen Curry. The guy is killing us.

E43

January 23rd, 2011
2:52 pm

Big Ray- Yup but then again i could always come up with a pre arranged deal that involves someone else buying the ticket and inexplicably finding that money in their pocket after the game. Take that Peja Stojakovic.

That being said can someone tell me why Jason Collins starts ahead of Zaza aside from the fact that hes a 7fter? Ive just been wondering coz Zaza has produced more but that’s just my opinion.

Astro Joe

January 23rd, 2011
4:56 pm

From the latest notes from the beat writers, After Saturday night’s game, Teague said he and Drew hadn’t talked “in awhile” and wasn’t sure what was limiting his minutes.

I find it hard to believe that after 2 head coaches and 2 position coaches, no one has explicitly said what he needs to do to earn more court time. I believe that one about as much as I believe that LD’s hire wasn’t influenced by his salary.

Cutty

January 23rd, 2011
7:25 pm

“Can you imagine having Okafor at the 5, with Horford at the 4″?

No, but I can imagine Okafor at the 5, Josh at the 4 and Horford out the door.

What do you think we can get for horford in trade?

O'Brien

January 23rd, 2011
8:41 pm

AJ,

So you’re calling Teague a liar?

Either way, even if nobody has told him what he needs to do, he should be smart enough to figure it out.

O'Brien

January 23rd, 2011
8:49 pm

More from ajc.com;

“Jeff has to continue to try to get better when he gets opportunities, when he’s by himself [and] when we practice,” Jamal Crawford said. “He has a bright future. His time will come.”.

I’m not sure how to interpret Jamal’s comments. Is teague not playing well in practice and when he is by himself?

I do find it interesting that Jamal and Teague are the ones to comment in the article. Where was LD’s comments?

Astro Joe

January 23rd, 2011
10:22 pm

OB, I think Teague has been told what to do but maybe he doesn’t know how to do it (or is in serious denial). Maybe he’s been told to bring a consistent work ethic to practice but doesn’t know how to make that happen or has convinced himself that he has met the standard. But I seriously doubt that all of these coaches are ignoring the first draft pick of the GM. It didn’t make sense for emplyee Woodson to diss his boss’ draft pick last year and it doesn’t make sense for LD to do the same this year (given Gearon’s comments last summer and LD’s use of Teague during his interview). So I put this on the player and his inability to satisfy his boss.

E43

January 23rd, 2011
11:42 pm

Enter your comments here

E43

January 23rd, 2011
11:56 pm

Astro Joe-I think Teague just fell into an unfavorable rotation. Someone just had or has to be the odd man out and its highly unlikely that it would be anyone over the age of 30. Unfortunately, teague plays ok as a young player but nothing really pushes his game towards great D or great O. At least not yet.

Big Ray

January 24th, 2011
6:30 am

E43 ,

I heard that (about the tickets).

As for Collins vs. Zaza….

Zaza has better offense and tends to be a better rebounder. Collins is a more savvy and capable defender in the post. So, the strategy against some teams is to start Collins and let him frustrate and contend with the opposing team’s starting center. It works against Orlando and some other ballclubs with big centers. Meanwhile, Zaza can come off the bench and provide rebounds (particularly on the offensive end) and offense (when he’s not having those butter fingered moments).

If you notice, though, Collins is playing fewer minutes per game.

Big Ray

January 24th, 2011
6:40 am

Astro Joe ,

I think something you said in the preseason still rings true: Larry Drew’s offense doesn’t require a pure pg.

What it does require is an offensive threat. Teague doesn’t hit the jumper worth a squat, and sometimes his ability to penetrate just isn’t enough. Let’s also look at how our offense tends to go – they shoot a lot of jumpers. I don’t like that we’re living and dying by the jumper way too much, but it is what it is.

Without a significantly improved perimeter game, there’s no way Teague breaks into a rotation of shooters like Bibby, Johnson, and Crawford…all of whom are capable of putting up at least 28 minutes per game. Basically, Teague doesn’t fit. Sure, he can come off the bench and push the ball, but unless he is consistently generating offense in some way (either hitting jumpers or scoring at the rim, or being a bonafide assist guy), he just won’t get the burn.

I think it’s also why JC2 will sometimes get the garbage time minutes, while Teague won’t. Same issue with Acie Law.

Now who is to blame? Easy to blame the player (and rightfully so), but also consider that our backcourt style of play under two coaches now has emphasized guys who can shoot. Who keeps picking the guys who can’t shoot effectively from the perimeter in the NBA?

Bottom line in my opinion – this organization has no idea how to pick point guards in the draft, and the point guards we pick have no idea how to improve their perimeter game.

Big Ray

January 24th, 2011
6:47 am

It’s also why I say “watch Jordan Crawford.” If this guy learns to handle the ball better and makes good decisions with it, you could conceivably see him in the backcourt with Joe Johnson if/when Jamal Crawford goes elsewhere and Bibby slows down enough to where he can’t provide starter’s minutes on a consistent basis.

I know Drew said “he’s a SG, not a PG”, but is anybody calling Jamal a pg? Is Drew calling him a pg? Actions always speak louder than words (do you hear that REX RYAN?), and if Jamal can consistently play lead guard in this offense, I don’t see why Jordan can’t. Again, he has to improve his handle and decision making. Personally, I hope for a summer of hard work from him, and some real attention given to him next season in training camp. I think it’s too much to hope for him to get any serious looks in the second half of this season.

I also will say this, and I’m sure that some (maybe many) will disagree:

Jordan Crawford is the most talented guard the Hawks have picked in the draft since Jason Terry (Jamaal Tinsely got traded on draft night)

vava74

January 24th, 2011
7:25 am

Hi Ray,

Nice blog. Been silent for a while. A weekend fully committed to cooking, eating and family time.

I have no doubt that Jordan Crawford will be a solid rotational player and have a long career in the league. Stardom is not out of the question IMO.

He is a pure scorer but does not look to have any bad character quirks which will prevent him from learning what is right to do and what is wrong.

On what happened against NO:

I think our guys, as childish and unprepared mentally as they are, felt that they were soooo good after the win against MIA that they spent the following days partying and as usual completely lost track of the fact that in order to win you gotta work for it.

I didn’t see the game but I am under the impression that Bibby and Josh are probably the main guys at this type of behavior and their stats and game flow stats seem to prove that a bit.

About Powell, my guess is that he griped with LD about not getting more minutes with Al out.

If he did, I am actually with him. I am not saying, at all, that his ability is comparable to Al BUT my view on patching a team when someone is missing is to replace the missing player with the guy which most resembles the game of the guy who is out.

IMO, Powell should have gotten the start against NO and should have gotten more or less the same role and shots that Al usually gets.

Powell’s jump shot is pretty decent and he is also a PF/C, so he practices exactly the same plays as Al, in the same position.

A line up with Mo @ SG, JJ @ SF, Josh @ PF and Collins @ C is simply too much of an adaptation IMO.

We have been playing with Al shooting from outside and spreading the floor – drawing the C or the PF out of the paint, and we go and face NO with Collins and Josh paired up “down low”?

Collins has no offense and Josh’s jump shooting is suspect so he cannot replace Al’s game when he is out.

We should have played with JJ at the SG slot and Josh at the SF slot overpowering Belinelli down low with Powell drawing West or Okafor out of the paint with a combo of Collins and Zaza helping out.

About Teague:

I am disappointed with LD on this one since he is following the same path that Woody did: let’s save my first coaching gig at all cost and see if with minimum risk I can swerve the boat in the right direction.

It’s not that we can censor him completely for that (as it was not 100% fair to do it for Woody – although he should have known that his job was already condemned): he has waited long, too long IMO, for a HC gig so it is only natural that he will be conservative.

I am 100% convinced that Teague only needs minutes and that the benefits in the long run would be higher than the risks.

I still consider Jamal to be a 100% viable candidate to be shipped off and that with him gone our DNA would automatically change.

Nothing against the guy but his game is 100% incompatible with an evolution towards defensive respectability which, as we all know, is the key to playoff success (unless you have a Nash-Stoudamire combo on its prime).

O'Brien

January 24th, 2011
7:34 am

Big Ray,

Based on who was available in the draft at the time, do you think JT0 was the right pick? Did the Hawks draft best available player, or they drafted for need?

Hawks will have to address the bench this offseason, because if Jamal and Mo leaves, our backups will be JC2 and Jeff. I dont think Rick and LD will be willing to go into next season with those 2 as our backup guards.

AJ,

To add on to Ray’s comments, one of the things LD has probably told Teague is he needs to knock down his jumpers more consistently, because that is what is needed in the motion offense.

imo, Teague seems unsure of himself when he is out there. And as a PG, you need to be a leader. I havent seen enough leadership from Jeff. He defers to the guys on the court, and it seems like he is playing scared of making a mistake, so I dont see the confidence and swagger he displayed in college.

O'Brien

January 24th, 2011
7:39 am

vava,

One thing with Powell though, is he turns the ball over, his defense is bad, and his rebounding is inconsistent.

But maybe the issue is the way he complained to LD about his minutes, because there is a wrong way, and a right way.

Astro Joe

January 24th, 2011
9:21 am

Big Ray, good points. While LD’s offense is clearly better, it is mostly better for jump shooters. I assumed that a motion offense would result in more FGAs in the lane and more FTAs for the team. I figured we’d be “attacking the rim” more often (or at least Josh would be in that mode). While the GM should clearly choose skills desired by his head coach, don’t we also expect the head coach to figure out ways to utilize the strengths of his players? I find it hard to imagine that someone with Teague’s quickness can’t find a consistent 18-20 minute role in a motion offense. That is why I typically default to blaming the player, because it is hard for me to accept that LD can’t build a scheme within the structure of this offense to use Teague’s unique (for this roster) gifts.

For all of the adept playoff prognostigators, the thought of relying almost exclusively on jump shooting in the playoffs can’t be much more comforting than relying almost exclusively on isolation plays. Last year, the offense evolved throughout the season, so hopefully, we’ll see additional sets added that feature more back door cuts, post-ups and plays designed to get a quality shot off within 8-10 feet of the basket. I’d be concerned if we continue to need at least 3 players making their jump-shots to compete in a game.

Astro Joe

January 24th, 2011
9:24 am

I know that MC is relatively new to the AJC, so maybe I shouldn’t be quick to lump him in with others, but the AJC does NOT have a great history of “cracking the lockerroom stories”. I think the odds are pretty high that if the Powell story emerges, it won’t come from the AJC.

niremetal

January 24th, 2011
10:14 am

I’m actually not too concerned about the fact that our offense is jumpshot-heavy. In and of itself, that’s not a problem. In terms of percentages, an open perimeter jumper (especially an open 3) are more efficient (ie result in more point per attempt) than contested shots in the paint (and most shots in the paint are contested). If you are relying on contested jumpers, sure that’s bad. But the offense we’re running now seems to be generating a lot of open jumpers, and we have the personnel (namely JJ, Jamal, Josh, and Al) to score in the paint when teams cut those jumpers off.

The truth is that many of the most successful teams in the league get most of their points outside the paint. Last year, the Hawks were 9th in the NBA in points in the paint per game. Pretty good. But teams ahead of them included Memphis, Sacramento, Houston, and Minnesota. Teams behind included LAL (albeit barely), SAS (same), Boston, OKC, Orlando, Dallas, and Portland. This year, we’re 25th. But Miami and Dallas are 29th and 30th. Memphis, LAC, and Toronto are in the top 5.

It’s something that the stat-crunchers have talked about for awhile. Scoring points in the paint versus scoring on perimeter shots is not a reliable indicator of offensive efficiency in either the regular season or the playoffs. People often say “well, open jumpers disappear in the playoffs,” which is true to an extent. The problem is that the number of fouls called in the paint per game goes down in the playoffs, which makes contested shots in the paint even less efficient than they are during the regular season. The idea that jumpers are the greatest casualty of increased defensive pressure in the playoffs is a myth – and when you think about it, common sense should tell you that without even having to look at the statistics.

You do, of course, need to have a mix of players that allows you to score both from the outside and in the paint (which we have). But as long as you have that, there’s no evidence at all that it matters which you look for first. Orlando is actually proof positive of that. They are among the most jumper-heavy teams in the NBA, and have been for awhile. But that’s ok because they are mostly open jumpers, created because they have a player (and really, it is just one player) who is great at scoring in the paint.

Rufus1

January 24th, 2011
11:03 am

It can’t be the PG’s.. it’s the coaches

It can’t be the PG’s, it has to be the coaches. 7 years of the Woodson / LD era and some of you are still blaming the players we drafted…That is ridiculous!!!!
Jerry Sloan could turn a BABY TURTLE into a NBA quality PG, but is 7 years the Hawks can’t make one…PLEASE!!!
Ronnie Price, Sundiata Gaines, Eric Maynor, Darren (To fat for the Hawks to draft) Willams and John Stockton…
LD wants a Derrick Fisher kind of PG and that means JC2 would be his preffered choice…. BUT HOW DO YOU TELL YOUR GM THAT I WANT TO TRADE YOUR FUTURE PG, THAT I PROMISED TO DEVELOP.

This isn’t about Teague, it is about LD….AFTER THE BOSTON GAME, THAT HE SHOULD HAVE ESTABLISHED HIM IN THE REGULAR ROTATION. This is exact same thing that happened to AC LAW, and the same people are giving the same excuses.
This isn’t about the players because we see the talent, it is about the coaches. This is the exact same way it happened to LAW(Good game, no real playing time, the next 4 games)….WE ALL WATCHED IT HAPPEN.

So please stop making excuses, for coaches that want Vet PG’s only or one more shooter on the floor.

Astro Joe

January 24th, 2011
11:09 am

nire, without checking the stats and using strictly my memory, I think the Hawks have struggled to score against likely Eastern Conference playoff teams so far. To your point, contested jumpers are a problem and given that we will likely be playing one of the 5 best teams in the conference in the first round, I wouldn’t expect too many open jumpers. As teams begin scheming for Al’s amazingly effective mid-range game, I fully expect LD to counter that with some cut to the rim. I’d be shocked if he doesn’t create counter-moves for what opposing teams find on film. And if they don’t execute (or he doesn’t scheme), then I have very little faith in our ability to see the 2nd round.

niremetal

January 24th, 2011
11:48 am

To your point, contested jumpers are a problem and given that we will likely be playing one of the 5 best teams in the conference in the first round, I wouldn’t expect too many open jumpers.

Every type of shot becomes harder in the playoffs. Teams and players that rely on getting in the paint and drawing fouls find that much harder to do in the playoffs as well. My point was that jumpers aren’t the only thing clamped down on in the playoffs. All shots become more difficult, and foul calls are harder to come by. There’s zero evidence that being a team that relies more on jumpers than on scoring in the paint fare worse in the playoffs. It’s something that the APBRmetrics folks write about all the time.

O'Brien

January 24th, 2011
1:08 pm

I think part of the issue is when jump shots are not falling (even if they are open), the Hawks dont have the mentality to stop settling for the jumper, and try something else. Try and score in the paint, try and get to the FT line etc.

They will keep shooting jumper after jumper, thinking the next one is going to go in. And because our defense is so inconsistent, one bad shot on offense, one easy bucket given up on defense, and before you know it, the game is getting away.

vava74

January 24th, 2011
1:11 pm

OB,

I would not call Powell’s D bad since I have seen him show a few flashes of D after he got his knee going.

I think his injury early in the season took away some of his mobility and since he is already undersized those two things compounded really showed on the floor.

The same on rebounding. Since he could barely take off and he is already on the short side (6′9” with relatively small) he was lost in the shuffle.

Yes, he is TO prone, but the issue is:

When you have an offense system working, you are better off trying to live with a makeshift replacement rather than overhauling the whole system, specially since we were already without another regular contributor.

Powell can be effective with his midrange jump shot and sincerely, I don’t see any harm if LD had given him the starting job and some shots.

If he started well and his shots were going in, you can bet that the rest of his game would also have been better.

The way that the team was configured folded as soon as the makeshift rotation was subject to further changes with the subs going in and out in the second quarter.

At least that seems to be what the gameflow stats seemed to indicate to me.

Astro Joe

January 24th, 2011
1:37 pm

nire, to the extent that the stats truly isolate jump-shooting teams from all of the other variables that may contribute to post-season success, then fine. (An example would be isolating Orlando’s jump-shooting tendencies from their outstanding defense). Without isolating other factors that may contrinute to post-season success, defining any one as affecting or non-affecting falls under the category of “numbers can say anything”.

All I know is that I’d like to see more shots taken in the paint (and more fast breaks). While players and coaches often talk about playing inside-out, we don’t often see it.

Astro Joe

January 24th, 2011
1:49 pm

Fran Vasquez was selected by the Magic with the 11th pick of the 2005 draft.

He’s yet to come over to play with the team from Spain, but his one-year contract extension with Barcelona expires after this season.

And Magic GM Otis Smith indicated in a recent fan interview on the team’s website they’ve discussed the possibility of him coming over next season.

“Those are the conversations we’re having now,” he’s quoted as saying. “His contract is up. There are a few things that are keeping us in limbo too. The CBA has been the main one, probably the biggest one for him. Then from there, you just negotiate out from there. But we probably started talking to him seriously about it few months ago. But how we do it, that remains to be seen.”

Has anyone checked the Hawks website to see if Sund has conducted a fan interview this season? Or last season? It’s also pretty remarkable how a team could overcome 0 producction from a 2005 lottery pick.

Rufus1

January 24th, 2011
2:19 pm

BiG Ray
I Co-sign on Both your posts at 6:40 and 6:47 am

I think LD has drafted his PG of the future and that is JC2.

The reason the Hawks didn’t like Mike Conley was because he didn’t have a jump shot.

LD’S problem is that he probably told the Hawks he could develop Teague in to a quality NBA PG… So how do you tell your GM’s 6 months later that you want to go in a different direction.

Big Ray
All the reason’s you gave are why I don’t think CP3 would have excelled in a Hawks uniform….And Marvin being the #1 or 2 scoring option for a team, he might be a completely different player.

Astro Joe

January 24th, 2011
4:08 pm

Have any of you checked out the schedule in March? I was just looking at Hollinger’s weekly rankings and noticed the Hawks have the played the 2nd easiest schedule so far. So while it is a rolling number, I figured there had to be some stretch where the Hawks take on some of the league’s “big boys” and it appears that happens most nights in March. Let’s hope that everyone is healthy by that time and not lacking energy.

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/schedule/_/name/atl/atlanta-hawks

niremetal

January 24th, 2011
4:21 pm

AJ,

I noticed that too. Hopefully it’ll be counterbalanced by the fact that we played more games than any other team in the league until this past week. We played 4 games in a week 7 times between Nov 1 and this past week, but only do so 4 times for the rest of the year. We only had two 3-day breaks in our schedule before the one we’re in right now (and one was Christmas, when most teams get 3 days breaks), but we have 3 over the course of the next ~2 months (4 if you count the 5-day All-Star break). So the harder schedule will hopefully be offset by the less grueling travel schedule.

Melvin

January 24th, 2011
4:27 pm

Nire,

Too bad the Hawks seem to play better in back to back games versus the games with extended break in between….

niremetal

January 24th, 2011
4:35 pm

Melvin,

Yeah. There’s definitely something to be said for the “rhythm” provided by a hectic schedule. But considering how banged up we’ve been getting, I’d rather get the rest and slip a seed going into the playoffs than win a few more games and enter the playoffs with more nagging injuries.

Astro Joe

January 24th, 2011
4:43 pm

What I noticed is that we get some easier opponents on the 2nd night of several future back-to-back series. They stucjk us with the Magic in those situations last year. The good news is that we rarely hear about energy or effort when the Hawks play the better teams. That is usually only the excuse when they lose to teams like last year’s Knicks or this year’s Nets.

Melvin

January 24th, 2011
7:44 pm

Watching TMac put in work against the Magic. 14pts, 3rebs, 2ast, 2stl all in the first quarter. I would have prefer to have him on the Hawks than Wilkins (and I like Wilkins). Heck, over Mo and Ethan as well…

niremetal

January 24th, 2011
10:47 pm

According to Newsday, we’ve begun preliminary talks about acquiring Melo:
http://mobile.newsday.com/inf/infomo;JSESSIONID=42CD924C55747822C540.3027?site=newsday&view=sports_item&feed:a=newsday_5min&feed:c=sports&feed:i=1.2625123&nopaging=1

I wonder if the source for this story is the same source that started the Josh-for-Amare rumor a couple years back. For those who don’t remember, the source on that rumor was one of the most frequently-used sources in sports – Mr. Thin Air.

There is no way they would simply accept an expiring contract like Jamal’s in exchange for Melo straight-up because Melo’s contract is expiring too, and there’s no reason they would prefer Jamal’s expiring contract to Melo’s. So the way I see it, there are two tacks Denver could be taking:
1) The “Blow It Up and Start from Scratch” Option: Package Melo with the long-term contracts of Nene, Harrington, and/or Billups, taking back nothing but expirings.
2) The “Rebuild on the Fly” Option: Get a star player back in exchange for Melo; or

If it’s #1, we’re no help because the only expiring deals we have are Jamal, Mo, and a few minimum-salary guys. We can’t cobble together nearly enough expirings to cover salaries of both Melo and 1 or more of the Nugs’ longer-term guys.

If it’s #2, we have a shot, but it’s a slim one, IMHO. The only “star-level” piece we and would be willing to trade (ie not Al) that I could fathom the Nuggets having an interest in (not JJ) is Josh. I won’t pretend to predict how that type of trade offer would be viewed by Denver. But it seems to me that Josh-for-Melo would have to be the core of any trade.

niremetal

January 24th, 2011
10:51 pm

For what it’s worth, I’m 50/50 on whether I’d prefer Melo to Josh as a fit for this roster on paper. But in practice, I think we need a major-league shock to the system to jolt the team out of its bad habits. Josh-for-Melo would certainly provide that jolt.

O'Brien

January 25th, 2011
7:39 am

Although Melo is a volume shooter who is not known for his defense, I would trade Josh for Melo IF Melo would sign an extension. Melo doesnt always give maximum effort, and we wouldnt win the title right away, but with Al, JJ and Melo, we have a pretty good 3 to start with.

And with Melo here, I think other players would take a discount to play in ATL. So then it would be a matter of the Hawks signing the right complimentary pieces.

Our salary would be through the roof, but I think the ASG would make that money back in attendance, jersey sales, extra TV games, media coverage etc.

And then when we trade JJ in 4 years, we would still have Al and Melo.

O'Brien

January 25th, 2011
7:41 am

How about them Cavs? Losers of 17 in a row, and 27 of their last 28.

How about them Wizards? 0-21 on the road. Ouch.

Astro Joe

January 25th, 2011
9:50 am

I agree with nire on the Melo rumor. It doesn’t sound like a quality rumor (Hawks generally don’t get caught up in trade rumors), if there is a player involved, Josh seems like the most logical guy AND I too have mixed feelings on that idea. While my initial gut feel is “no”, I would ultimately have to applaud the gamble of trying to change the culture (after badly botching the coaching hire).

On a seperate note, having your fans discussing the possibility of trading for a marquee name is great (and free) marketing. It doesn’t matter if they are any closer to trading for Melo than they are for trading for LeBron, just find a gullible reporter to nibble on the bait and get some good will for the franchise. Because there is very little chance that it becomes a disruption like what happened in NJ or Detroit, there is very little risk, especially as long as “sources” don’t specify players.

Astro Joe

January 25th, 2011
9:56 am

OB, I’m not particularly a big Byron Scott fan, but I do feel sorry for him. That Clevelnad team “seems” historically bad (I doubt that the facts would bear that out but it certainly feels like they are amongst the worse teams at this portion of the season ever). And their most tradable pieces are injured, so they could possibly be a team that is truly awful that makes very few trades during the season (other than Jamison, who else is likely to be traded at this point?). Mostly, I feel really bad of Cleveland fans as they didn’t seem nearly as annoying as fans from other cities. And they did NOTHING wrong, they fully appreciated their team when they were good, they sold out the arena and celebrated their success hard.

O'Brien

January 25th, 2011
9:57 am

How about Dwight, calling out his perimeter defenders. From the Orlando sentinel;

“Either we get it together or we’re just going to be a playoff team that doesn’t win a championship,” Howard said.

“Guys got to guard on the perimeter, got to do a better job. It just can’t be one dribble to the basket. So you got to do a better job.” .

Is he talking about the Magic or the Hawks?

Big Ray

January 25th, 2011
10:56 am

The Hawks have been in “preliminary talks” with probably every major free agent. That’s as far as it usually gets. I don’t see anything coming out of this at all. Especially since ‘Melo seems to want to be in New York.

Big Ray

January 25th, 2011
10:58 am

Rufus ,

There are only two reasons why CP3 could have possibly not excelled in a Hawks uni:

1) Billy Knight thought we had no need for a pg.

2) Mike Woodson thought CP3 was too small and couldn’t shoot well enough.

Beyond that, a star is a star, is a star…..

Big Ray

January 25th, 2011
10:59 am

O’brien ,

Heh…good one….amazing to be hearing that from the reigning League DPOY….

doc

January 25th, 2011
11:05 am

everyone would be real happy with josh gone until he blew up with another team. though it is intriguing it still leaves the roster imbalanced and maybe worse off because you trade for offense which we dont necessarily need and give up any help defense that this team has. if josh goes he better go for quality that can last and play defense and is either your point guard and perimeter defense for the next four years or the big we have been waiting for since the finger waggler left. melo doesnt fit those criteria. i said josh was not untouchable last year, only he is the only way we get quality to balance what we have.

Big Ray

January 25th, 2011
11:14 am

Damn good points, Doc .

vava74

January 25th, 2011
11:30 am

OB,

Very funny piece of news!

Tukuglu, Richardson & Arenas are notoriously bad defenders and Nelson is not overpowering either with his 5′9” frame.

I guess that they will miss Pietrus badly.

Who will they use on Kobe or Wade if they meet in the playoffs?

Reddick? Ha!

The Magic are IMO in deep trouble after their block buster trade.

They will even miss Rashard who was a disciplined defender capable of covering SFs and lighter PFs moderately well.

Their Twin Tower set up with Gortat which they used from time to time is also gone…

I like our chances against them. Now their game plan is solely to out shoot their opponents.

wordsmithtom

January 25th, 2011
11:30 am

If we trade Josh, I hope it’s NEXT year when Dwight goes to the Lakers. When….not if. IMHO

Lakers have an aging superstar; Dwight wants to be in a bigtime market. Perfect match. Lakers will then have extra BIGS and would seriously entertain swapping one for a guy to keep Dwight happy. All in my “empty-headed” opinion.

doc

January 25th, 2011
11:49 am

wasnt there a guy named matt barnes with the magic last year doing some dirty work that the lakers got as much to make the magic weaker as to make them stronger? yes, some teams operate that way, very machiavelian but it is a way. seems like they were successful.

i_am_soulstar

January 25th, 2011
11:59 am

Big Ray,

If Jordan Crawford becomes awesome, he and Joe could totally co-exist in the backcourt. I agree with LD that Jordan Crawford is a shooting guard, but Joe Johnson plays point guard for the Hawks, I don’t care what position they list him as at the start of the game.

vava74

January 25th, 2011
12:35 pm

i_am_soulstar,

Actually, I also said a few weeks ago that IMO our current roster is finally composed in such a way that a JJ @ the point experiment could potentially work, thus fulfilling Knight’s dream of a team composed of 5 guys all between 6′5′ and 6′10”.

Bibby plays the off guard most of the time and our bigs usually bring the rock up court so why not try it?

Since JJ is a very good perimeter defender capable of stopping most PGs I think we could potentially fly with a line up composed of JJ, Mo, Marvin, Josh and Al.

Our second team could then be more traditional with Bibby, JoC and Jamal gunning, Wilkins and Teague providing situational perimeter D and Powell, Zaza, Collins and Etan splitting minutes banging and hurting people down low.

O'Brien

January 25th, 2011
12:36 pm

vava,

Orlando’s GM has gotten away with some of his moves mostly because of their $90 mil payroll. I dont think he has done a good job with his personnel.

I like our matchup with them too, and the way the season is going, we might play them in the first round. I can see it going 7 games.

But if the Hawks lose 4-3 to Orlando in the first round, will it be a disappointment because we lost in the first round?

Or will it be acceptable because we played them much tougher than the blowouts last year’s playoffs?

Astro Joe

January 25th, 2011
2:19 pm

doc, I agree with you if Josh remains a PF which seemingly forces Horford to play where he doesn’t want to play. I’m not sure that asking your SF to be the primary weakside defender is going to work long-term.

Astro Joe

January 25th, 2011
2:43 pm

One more thing, we act like Josh is the only weakside defender on this team. If Horford were asked to perform that task, are we certain that the difference would be dramatic? We’re not exactly talking about a Boston Celtics-level defense to begin with (especially in the half-court).

niremetal

January 25th, 2011
2:49 pm

If Horford were asked to perform that task, are we certain that the difference would be dramatic?

That’s the thing – I really don’t think it would be. Al might not actually block as many shots as Josh does in that role. But he certainly has the brains, size, and ups to alter shots and generally wreak havoc.

O'Brien

January 25th, 2011
3:52 pm

I think if thats the role for Al, he might also be more consistent than Josh, because sometimes Josh does not seem to be in the game mentally.

One issue for Horford though, could be LD and his 2 foul rule…

Rusty

January 25th, 2011
7:36 pm

How does anyone think that mo should play first string on this team?

niremetal

January 25th, 2011
7:57 pm

Rusty,

Because he’s still just 2 years removed from being a full-time starter on a 50-win team.

Astro Joe

January 26th, 2011
9:26 am

A few weeks ago, we discussed the Bucks and their disappointing season. Since we are playing them tonight (man, it seems like the Hawks haven’t played a game in 3 weeks), I thought I’d revisit that subject. I did not factor in how injured they’ve been this season. Bogut has started the most games and he has been recovering from the arm injury that kept him out of the playoff series. Salmons hurt his ankle in pre-season and has been in/out of the line-up. Delfino suffered a concussion that had him out for probably 20+ games. Jennings has missed 10+ games. Gooden has probably missed 10+ games. And that was supposed to be their starting line-up. I’d bet they haven’t had their desired starting line-up for more than 8 games this season, with likely 2-3 starter usually missing.

Meanwhile, I’d love to see Boykins in a Hawks uniform next season.

Astro Joe

January 26th, 2011
9:51 am

Oh great, Kendrick Perkins is back for the Celtics. Perkins, KG, Shaq, JON and Big Baby. Geez, think those guys are capable of getting an important rebound in a critical possession late in the game?

vava74

January 26th, 2011
10:11 am

Astro,

Shaq and Jermaine’s ability to contribute are highly overrated.

Neither is hardly important for the Celts if Perkins comes back at full strength.

Shaq had either 1 or 2 rebounds in 24+- minutes against Howard last time they met a couple of weeks ago.

Astro Joe

January 26th, 2011
10:35 am

vava, it’s called depth. Because of age and injury, those guys could play 18-20 minutes each and still provide the team with 96 minutes of very good “big man” ball. Let’s not talk 1 game anomalies, because some of the Hawks big men have also had their 1 game nightmare.

niremetal

January 26th, 2011
10:44 am

AJ,

Part of the Bucks’ problem going into the year was that all of their depth is at SG/SF. Most notably, they didn’t replace Ridnour with another respectable backup, and Ridnour’s performance off the bench was an underrated component of their success last year.

vava74

January 26th, 2011
11:47 am

nire,

Ridnour was FUNDAMENTAL for the Bucks’ success last year and the fact that did not acknowledge that was one of the worst GM mistakes of the year.

Jennings is talented but he is a J-Smoove at the point: physically gifted, a game changer at times but has an erratic behavior and is (for the moment) a poor decision maker…

To be perfectly frank, IMO, if you had given Jennings’ job to Teague last year, before Woody’s wood treatment, he would not have done worse. He would probably not have scored 55 but he sure would have been exciting to see.

niremetal

January 26th, 2011
12:07 pm

Btw, I predict that Ridnour’s next team will be Boston. Why? From college onward, he has only played for teams whose team colors have a large dose of green. Just sayin.

O'Brien

January 26th, 2011
12:18 pm

@ AJ,

Ironically, the Celtics are 30th in rebounds per game (although their defense is probably top 5).

@ vava,

If Horford and Josh are injured, would you prefer prefer Collins, Etan, ZaZa and Powell playing 48 minutes, or Shaq, JO, and Big Baby?

As for Teague, I think AJ said it best. He needs to be on a bad team so he can get consistent minutes and take his lumps, without having to worry about deferring, or getting pulled for one mistake.

Astro Joe

January 26th, 2011
12:22 pm

I agree, Ridnour played exceptionally well for them and Dooling hasn’t been anywhere close to as good. I wasn’t speaking as much to the reason for predicting a lesser record as much as discussing why they have struggled so much. PG depth is a secondary factor to a riddled starting line-up.

Melvin

January 26th, 2011
4:19 pm

I just hope you gentlemen haven’t talk up a good game for the Bucks tonight…

niremetal

January 26th, 2011
7:38 pm

Melvin,

If it makes you feel better, I’m sure there are plenty of Bucks fans talking down about the Hawks right now too.

Astro Joe

January 26th, 2011
9:39 pm

It’s been a while since we’ve seen Joe with that kind of quickness to the hole.

niremetal

January 26th, 2011
10:07 pm

As a preview…tonight’s Josh’s jumpers watch looks like it’ll be extra ugly.

Astro Joe

January 26th, 2011
10:20 pm

Really? That was the play? Josh shooting a 3?

Astro Joe

January 26th, 2011
10:21 pm

Wow. Al is nailing everything, Joe, Jamal and Bibby on the floor. And Josh takes the 3 with the Hawks down by 4 after a timeout? Wow.

O'Brien

January 26th, 2011
10:24 pm

AJ,

Josh’s shot selection has been horribe tonight. Taking contested shots early in the shot clock (although his jumper has been off)?

I hope that wasn’t LD’s play call for a 3 from Josh, given that he was 6-19 for the game…

Astro Joe

January 26th, 2011
10:28 pm

Outscored 34-15 in the final quarter. Yessir, that will leave you with a bad taste in your mouth.

Melvin

January 26th, 2011
10:28 pm

Hawks lose to a Bucks team without their starting backcourt…

Astro Joe

January 26th, 2011
10:31 pm

OB, I hope not. 20 FGAs is a bunch for Josh, especially when Al got 9. That was an ugly and bad loss after a very solid 3 quarters of play.

niremetal

January 26th, 2011
10:37 pm

Josh’s jumpers watch update:

vs. NO: 3-7 (1-1 on 3s)
vs. Cha: 2-5 (0-0 on 3s)
vs. Mil: 1-9 (1-5 on 3s)

Total: 6-21 (2-6 on 3s)
FG%: .286
eFG%: .333
eFG% vs. season avg: -.109
vs. ’09-’10 avg: +.048
—————————————————————————
Josh’s eFG% on jumpers for the season is down to .439. My guess is that since the new year, it’s been well below .350, although no site that I’ve found breaks it down that far.

Tonight’s loss was just ugly. The team was shooting jumpers throughout the 4th. Something tells me that LD was telling them to stop settling, but the players (esp Josh) just don’t care. This is why I’ve moved into the “time to make a change for the sake of change” camp.

The team was a combined 1-13 on jumpers in the 4th quarter (the 1 was from Al). Josh alone was 0-4. Joe, Jamal, Bibby, and Marvin were each 0-2.

O'Brien

January 26th, 2011
10:38 pm

Earl Boykins, 34 years old, and 5′5″ ran circles around Bibby.

And I am tired of hearing Jerome Jurenevich (sp) say the hawks locker room doors were closed longer than usual. How often will that continue this season?

Astro Joe

January 26th, 2011
10:42 pm

Let’s not forget that we just allowed one of the worse offensive teams in the league to score 34 points in the 4th quarter and come a basket shy of putting up 100. And they did it without Salmons, Jennings and with Maggette missing a good chunk of the 4th quarter.

Now who mentioned Boykins joining the Hawks next season?

Astro Joe

January 26th, 2011
10:44 pm

My bad, the Bucks are not one of the worse scoring teams in the league, they are THEY worse scoring team in the league. UGH!

O'Brien

January 26th, 2011
10:46 pm

AJ,

Wasn’t Boykins available this past off-season?

O'Brien

January 26th, 2011
10:47 pm

And I wish Jerome would ask LD what was the play call on that Josh 3…

Astro Joe

January 26th, 2011
10:48 pm

OB, I’m pretty sure that Boykins was available when the season started, I think he signed with the Bucks in November.

Astro Joe

January 26th, 2011
10:49 pm

I wish Jerone would ask Josh, “WTF were you thinking?”

Astro Joe

January 26th, 2011
10:52 pm

Nope, I was wrong, Boykins signed in August. One year for around $1.3M.

Astro Joe

January 26th, 2011
10:54 pm

Durant and Love are both having decent games tonight.

Melvin

January 26th, 2011
10:56 pm

A terrible lose by the Hawks….

Melvin

January 26th, 2011
11:59 pm

Another Hawks lost after 3 days of rest. I get these guys don’t need that long of a break b/c they may lose their rhythm….

doc

January 27th, 2011
12:00 am

that is charmin soft

O'Brien

January 27th, 2011
12:54 am

It would be nice if we got a new starting PG next season. That way, we could bring Bibby off the bench to help replace Jamal’s scoring (assuming Jamal walks).

vava74

January 27th, 2011
3:53 am

Teague shot poorly (1-5), but had 4 assists (out of 19), 2 rebounds and posted a +3 in 13 minutes.

I continue to insist: Teague’s poor shooting naturally curbs our jump shooting habits.

That is an immediate PLUS for me.

vava74

January 27th, 2011
3:59 am

Teague’s +3 includes a -4 during the first 3.30 minutes of the 4th.

Crawford posted a -19 for the whole 4th quarter, having played 17 minutes in a row.

A poor perimeter defender playing such a long shift cannot help.

He was on fire to close the 3rd. That was the EXACT time to remove him from the court.

Jamal is like the stock exchange, sell (bench him) when he is high. Keeping him on the floor will end up most of the time with his stock dropping.

The starters plus Jamal posted a -15 to close the 4th.

O'Brien

January 27th, 2011
7:47 am

vava,

I think Bibby had a -14, and Al had -13. As for Teague, his +/- numbers would not be so bad if he was playing all his minutes with the starters (like Bibby does).

nire,

Just looking at the raw numbers, there is a disturbing trend with Josh.

November: 51% from the field, 35% from 3
December: 46% from the field, 39% from 3
January: 41% from the field, 32% from 3

I don’t know if his knee is bothering him, or if it’s because he is spending more time at SF, but he is not the same shooter he was earlier in the season.

He needs to realize that, and adjust his shot selection accordingly.

O'Brien

January 27th, 2011
7:58 am

Bad team loss last night. And Al’s comment says alot to me about this team.

From MC’s game write up;

Al Horford on losing leads late: “It’s a lessons still being learned, I feel like. I guess when it gets to a point where it hurts you and really bothers you, then you do something about it. I don’t know that we’re there as a team yet.”.

How long has this team been together? And our captain is not sure if the team is really bothered by these types of losses?

LD can talk to these guys until he is blue in the face, but until they change their mindset, they will continue to be unpredictable in the face of adversity.

vava74

January 27th, 2011
9:25 am

OB,

I did not watch the game but I followed the play by play for part of the 4th and correct me if I am wrong but didn’t MIL scored mostly from the perimeter?

Delfino, Boykins and Temple, with several 3 pointers?

My guess is that Teague would have done a better job in the perimeter and that Wilkins should have dressed precisely for this type of situation.

For me, even without watching I’ll give it a 50-50 between the players and LD.

Rod from College Park

January 27th, 2011
11:21 am

Vava,

“My guess is that Teague would have done a better job in the perimeter and that Wilkins should have dressed precisely for this type of situation.”

Your guess would be wrong, because Boykins destroyed Teague most of the game. Teague was in at the start of the forth quarter also, and played until about the 8 minute mark. Boykins scored 9 points in the 4th quarter on Bibby, the other 11 he scored were with Teague checking him. Teague and Bibby were both terrible defensively last night. Wilkins was dressed, but he won’t get any run, now that the defensive stalwart Marvin Williams is back. (LOL).

Da Back of Rod's 1-ounce brain

January 27th, 2011
11:28 am

Rod: Garsh, I don’t like what Vava had to say about Teague. I should reply.

Your guess would be wrong, because Boykins destroyed Teague most of the game. Teague was in at the start of the forth quarter also, and played until about the 8 minute mark. Boykins scored 9 points in the 4th quarter on Bibby, the other 11 he scored were with Teague checking him. Teague and Bibby were both terrible defensively last night

Da Back of Rod’s brain: You should get in a jab about Marvin.
Rod: Nah, no need man. The post is about Teague.
Da Back: Come on. You know you want to.
Rod: Yeah, but the post is about Teague, Bibby, and defending point guards. Marvin is totally off topic.
Da Back: That’s never stopped us before. Why should it stop you now?
Rod: Good point. Can’t argue with that.
Da Back: So you’ll do it?
Rod: Sure.

Wilkins was dressed, but he won’t get any run, now that the defensive stalwart Marvin Williams is back. (LOL).

[Rod shakes like a crack addict who just got his fix]

vava74

January 27th, 2011
12:21 pm

Rod,

I said that I was guessing and I did not see the game.

My view is that our perimeter D sucks badly and that Jamal is over used.

Teague has proven from time to time that he can be a reasonably effective perimeter D, albeit a work in progress. He was against Boykins in the previous match up.

My view is that DNP CD’s are not contributing for his improvement and on the contrary can explain why he got burned by Boykins.

Also, it does not help to play along side Jamal, who, on the contrary, as shown his limit.

He is supposed to be in the game because he brings offense, but we end up scoring only 15 points the same.

Too much perimeter offense and too little perimeter D.

If Wilkins was dressed, then LD is even more to blame for a lack of IN GAME adjustment.

As for your continued criticism of Marvin, you are right to some extent, but not on his D.

Astro Joe

January 27th, 2011
2:20 pm

Her father’s face and her mother’s skin-tone. Let’s hope she also has her mother’s game (and not her father’s).

http://espn.go.com/espnw/blog/_/post/6061871/lot-prove

Rod from College Park

January 27th, 2011
2:48 pm

Vava,

“He is supposed to be in the game because he brings offense, but we end up scoring only 15 points the same.”

The problem with your continued criticism of Jamal is that, without him on the floor, we really won’t be able to score. Jamal is not over used. I think he should actually be on the floor as the primary point guard late in the game. Bibby should not be on the floor. Blame LD, Blame Joe who was guarded by a 10 day D-league player in the 4th, and blame Josh for continuing to shoot 3’s, not Jamal.

Rod from College Park

January 27th, 2011
2:53 pm

Clown,

Let me help you out. Marvin returns, we lose. Take come comedy classes. Not funny at all. Join Ringling Brothers, they are hiring clowns.

O'Brien

January 27th, 2011
4:32 pm

From nire’s favorite Hawks columnist (Jeff Schultz);

When asked about Teague, Drew admitted, “I had hoped he would be further along. So we’ve had to go with what’s been good to us. Mike is up there in age but he’s still been pretty productive.”

Drew said he’s resting Bibby enough that he’s not overly concerned about the player wearing down in the second half and in the postseason.

When asked about defenses breaking down the Hawks, he said, “It does start [at point guard], but most of our breakdowns on top will be off the pick and roll. … From a breakdown standpoint, it’s certainly the head of the snake for us. We have to have ball containment. But that’s true with everybody on the perimeter.”.

http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/2011/01/27/trades-part-ii-should-hawks-deal-josh-for-point-guard/

IMO, LD needs to be more worried about teams breaking down Hawks defense in the playoffs (even if he doesnt say it out loud).

The numbers don’t lie.

niremetal

January 27th, 2011
6:01 pm

O’B,

He lost all credibility when, in a thread where the main identified problem is defending the point, Schultz suggests trading for…Steve Nash.

Actually I lied. Schultz lost all credibility long before that.

Big Ray

January 27th, 2011
9:04 pm

Astro Joe

January 27th, 2011
9:05 pm

Oh good, it will be easier for Larry, Moe and Curly to sell the team.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-hawks/hawks-no-longer-collateral-818248.html

O'Brien

January 27th, 2011
9:26 pm

AJ,

The ASG have no interest in selling the team. Oh wait…

On a related note, Forbes ranked all NBA teams in terms of their value. The Bucks were last at $278 mil, while the Hawks were 21st, at $306 million.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/32/nba08_NBA-Team-Valuations_Value.html/

vava74

January 28th, 2011
5:56 am

Rod,

You are dead wrong.

There is a reason why Jamal AS NEVER BEEN involved in winning basketball.

He is soft, desinterested/unable to play D, poor decision maker, … You name it.

Yes, he is very talented on the ball player, sometimes even wonderful to watch, but so are the Harlem Globetrotters.

Basically Jamal has never been good structurally for the teams he plays.

He was vastly overused by Woody and is being vastly overused by LD.

The team had more spunk and played more cohesive with Flip.

These are facts. Even more evident that Marvin’s alleged prejudicial effect on the team.

Your: “Marvin returns, the Hawks lose” is pathetic.

Marvin is not #2 material and has marked shortcomings but your loathing is delusional.

vava74

January 28th, 2011
10:48 am

typo: “HAS” never been