Nemesis no more? Hawks defeat Magic a second time

Maybe they still have the flu. Maybe the trade disrupted their chemistry (whatever chemistry they did have). Maybe they just didn’t play well. Or maybe…the Orlando Magic simply don’t have the Atlanta Hawks’ number anymore.

Whatever the case, the Hawks beat the Magic for a second time this season, this time in a more convincing fashion, erasing the memory of the early season blowout at the hands of their old nemeis. Perhaps now the expected 20+ point blowouts are gone, and a win like this does go a ways in easing the pain of a nasty loss to the New Jersey Nets. So how did it all go down?

No Fear

You have to respect the League’s reigning Defensive Player of the Year and one of the best shot blockers around. But, you can’t play like you’re scared of him on either side of the ball. When it comes to defending Howard, all that’s needed is a big body (height and weight helps here) with some smarts and a willingness to mix it up and not give him the position he wants every time. Enter Jason Collins, who came into the season much improved from a physical conditioning standpoint, and who has always been a savvy post defender. Collins can take the beating that Howard dishes out, and never stops coming at him, even forcing the officials to actually call 1 or 2 of the 50 offensive fouls Dwight commits every game (and 50 might honestly be an underestimation).

Enter also Josh Smith, who continually challenged Howard’s shots when he was able to peel away from his man in time. Perhaps no single play in the entire game showed the new found moxie of the Hawks more than Josh Smith’s one-handed block of Dwight Howard’s one-handed dunk attempt. At this point, you could hear it in the air: “We aren’t scared of you.”  Howard finished with an impressive 19 points and 20 rebounds, a box score story that would impress most who hadn’t seen the game. But you’d have to watch the game to see the frustration on his face, and you’d have to read the box score closer to see how the Hawks really handled him: Playing him one-on-one with the occasional weak side help from Smith, Atlanta forced Howard into a 6-14 shooting performance that included 5 fouls and a game-high 6 turnovers.

Right Back at You

Equally impressive was a double-double combo from Al Horford and Josh Smith. Atlanta destroyed Orlando on the glass 51-38 as Horford and Smith ripped down 11 and 10 boards, respectively. But it was the bench that made the true difference, led by forward Marvin Williams (normally a starter) with 9, and backup center Zaza Pachulia adding 7 of his own. In fact, every Hawk to get in the game grabbed a rebound, with the exception of point guard Jeff Teague. Total team efforts like this make you wonder what happens on other nights (like against New Jersey!).

Adding to a team leading and game high 24 points from Al Horford were Joe Johnson with 17 (still working the rust off, but playing like a grown man), Mike Bibby with 15 (League’s hottest 3 point shooter, Ladies and Gents), and Marvin with a healthy 12 points. Smith added 12 of his own despite an awful shooting night (3-14), and guess what?

The Hawks still won by 10, which was closer than the game really was.

The thing is, the Hawks kept the Magic off of their rhythm by not letting their shooters get loose and comfortable, and by keeping Dwight Howard frustrated. Now if only they’ll keep it up and do this to other teams as well.

No time for a let-down, the Cavs are next. Can the Hawks retain what they’ve learned against Orlando, or will they lose focus again?

85 comments Add your comment

moBjo

December 21st, 2010
8:00 am

good win. glad to see Orl suffer a little.

J from the A

December 21st, 2010
8:03 am

Nice post, Big Ray.

It was a good game. In the 3rd I was beginning to wonder if the Hawks were going to have problems closing out the Magic (a la Nets and every other team the Hawks play), but Bibby’s late 3rd quarter sharpshooting stopped the Magic run, and put the Hawks in a good position to close the game out in the 4th.

In the 4th the Hawks executed on both ends of the court. That was the difference between last night and the game against the Nets.

I really like the big lineup with Marvin coming off the bench.

m.t.baker

December 21st, 2010
8:28 am

While we did win, my concern was that 3rd quarter. We relied on Bibby getting us out with jump shots. What happens when the jump shots don’t fall? We need to drive to the basket a whole lot more than we’re doing. I will admit that I was happy to see the jump shots that were taken were in rythem and some were set up by somebody driving to the basket, but still I would prefer to see us go up stronger in the paint like a lot teams do to us even though they know Josh may block it. We have to strike fear into the other teams and let them know we aren’t afraid to go to basket. Work from the inside out.

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i_am_soulstar

December 21st, 2010
8:57 am

Nice 2nd half. Marvin is better suited coming off the bench maybe?? It makes perfect sense that he is more effective as the first or second option offensively on the second unit rather than being the fifth option offensively on the first unit. Maybe we should have used this line up against New Jersey.

Mike is back

December 21st, 2010
9:21 am

What’s up Big Ray, I’ll revise my post from MC…the wify and I had a good time last night…VERY ENTERTAINING GAME…GREAT WIN!!!

U ARE LIKE AL WAS LAST NIGHT…you are right on it…BIG SHOUT OUT TO COLLINS…for stepping UP and allowing LD to have A via able Big to go to…that’s been huge for AL.

GREAT STUFF…GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

richbrave

December 21st, 2010
9:53 am

congrats on second hawksters

richbrave

December 21st, 2010
9:55 am

With the bad luck charm around the MAGIC’s neck (ARENAS), there are no worries for HAWKS fans. MIAMI here we come

richbrave

December 21st, 2010
9:59 am

BIG RAY:

Noticed that ARENAS went 2-11 from the floor. How many offernsive rebounds did the MAGIC corral off those rim-clangers? Those potential extra possessions to the HAWKS could have been the difference in the game.

O'Brien

December 21st, 2010
10:12 am

Good team win.

I was skeptical when we resigned Collins, but I have been pleased with his play. Even ZaZa had some rebounds and got a double Tech with Howard.

Bibby’s shooting in the 3rd kept us in the game, and Marvin provided a spark coming off the bench.

I think Marvin would play better in a bench role, but for that to happen, we need other starting options at Center, because Twin cannot and should not start every game.

JJ contributed all around with rebounds and assists, but he also took some bad shots where he was forcing the issue. He needs to let the game come to him.

I’m not surprised the Hawks won, because thats what they do. Follow up a bad loss with a good win. Can they keep it going when they go back out on the road? Time will tell.

wordsmithtom

December 21st, 2010
11:59 am

Yahoo says Anthony going to Nets in a complicated, yet to be firmed up, multi team trade. They say Devin Harris is going somewhere. Harris for JC1???

O'Brien

December 21st, 2010
12:52 pm

wordsmithtom,

JC1 has been sitting out with back pain, so I doubt he is going anywhere.

wordsmithtom

December 21st, 2010
1:29 pm

O’Brien,I read a book on back pain recently that suggested it had a lot to do with how a person stores anger. Angry people develop bachaches… Well, he’s not happy with not having a contract. Perhaps, he gets well quickly with a trade to rejuvinated NJ. NJ with Anthony and another player could be very interesting. They give us fits now.

Oh, and then we move Bibbs to a Steve Kerr type role off the bench.

Big Ray

December 21st, 2010
1:55 pm

wordsmithtom ,

Not too likely. As for Jamal, he seems to be injured every time he has a real stinker or string of stinker games. Not my actual thought, it was brought to me by a friend and fellow observor….

NBA.com is a pile of losers (Sekou Smith excepted, of course). So many articles about the Magic, from Turkoglu’s triumphant return to Orlando, and everything else. Not one word about the Hawks handing them a butt-kicking. Heh…

Big Ray

December 21st, 2010
1:56 pm

Mike is Back ,

Always good to see you back around here, my man. My favorite part from my fellow Hawks fans is when everybody started counting how long it took Dwight Howard to shoot free throws. Even the commentators took note. Absolutely hilarious!

Big Ray

December 21st, 2010
1:57 pm

Richbrave ,

Those clangers and others provided the Hawks with plenty of rebounding opportunities, which they thankfully took advantage of.

Mike is back

December 21st, 2010
2:13 pm

Big Ray, thanks for the shout out. On your comment about NBA.com…for the life of me…I can’t figure out why TBS…brought those losers from the TNT over to NBA.com…CAN U SAY BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING…jez…WTF were they thinking about. lol

kwooden1

December 21st, 2010
2:32 pm

Good win, but I wasn’t at all impressed with the offensive execution. I really want to see them execute their offensive better against good teams in late game situations. It seems to be a catch 22 with this team in late game situations because Bibby has to be on the court because of his shooting, but good teams go right after him on the defensive end. Because of this I think the HAWKS will never be an elite team until they learn how to consistently score in their half-court offensive. I hate to be negative about last nights game, but I want to see more consistent execution. I didn’t see the NJ game, but I’m sure I would be saying the same thing if I did.

Clearly Collins can’t start against several teams in the league (GS, Wizards, Suns, etc) but I think it is obvious to all that Horford can be really effective at the PF position. Marvin also looked good off the bench, but I really think it was just one of those games. Against Cleveland, I really wouldn’t even play Collins, unless Zaza gets in foul trouble. Horford should start at center against Varejao and attack him in the post. This is a game where we can really work on our offensive and get more shots going to the basket. It’s also a game where Smoove can get his touch back.

GO HAWKS!!

O'Brien

December 21st, 2010
3:27 pm

Who has played better?

Josh at SF, or Al at PF? Although Josh has been more than serviceable at SF, I think Al has played well at PF.

IMO, I dont think Al wants to play center anymore. So will the Hawks make a move and trade either Al or Josh for a starting center?

Or will they continue to do what they’ve been doing?

My preference would be to find a starting center, and somehow keep Josh and Al. But with our limited resources, I dont think thats possible.

hbcuclassics

December 21st, 2010
8:53 pm

Hawks Quick Fix:

1. Accept the fact that this team is going nowhere fast.
2. You’ve overpaid for JJ, might as well get him the help he needs.
3. You have assets.

1. Jamal Crawford/ZaZa for Nene Hilario – Denver is blowing that team up after trading Carmelo. Crawford is an exciting scorer that’ll put fans in the seat or a nice piece to move to NY or NJ.

2. Mike Bibby/Mo Evans for Daniel Gibson – Cleveland needs cap space, Bibby will expire soon. Gibson gives ATL young shoot 1st PG.

3. Marvin Williams for Josh Howard/Yi Jianlin/ 1st rd. pick – DC in constant flux, Marvin would be nice piece and free from JJ. Howard has the versatile skill set and bravado needed in ATL. Yi would be good for marketing purposes.

Hawks get legitimately bigger with Nene and Al. Quicker in the backcourt with Gibson. And tougher down the stretch with Josh Howard.

L-QUE

December 21st, 2010
9:21 pm

Why keep talking about a center when its clearly scoring is the need.But from the 1-2- position .look at the championship teams the bulk of the scoring comes from the 123 positions ,Orlando is the only team that feature center scoring . Not Boston Lakers Miami Chicago,orDallas,OKL,SAN ANT.use to its, the points and shooting guardsplus the 3 spot where the bulk of the scoringis done Atlanta needs consitant scoring from our guards AL & JOSH cant score 24 ,points in all the Hawks wins.AGAIN MOST CENTERS IN THE NBA ARE SPACE TAKERS .Atlanta needs guards who can score,

L-QUE

December 21st, 2010
9:42 pm

hbc——– All Atlanta needs is MONTEL ELLIS rumored to be on the tradeing block, J CHILL,a low budget T. McGRADY can help ,back court scoring HELP WANTED.Dont destroy this teams core for a guesssssssssing quick fix ,Orlando is destroyed. MIAMI still needs help,why do they beat Atlanta back court scoring , same for BOSTON, SAN ANT.,DALLAS on&on back court scoring

Najeh Davenpoop

December 22nd, 2010
5:46 am

The whole “Magic as nemesis” thing was at least as much a mental hurdle as it was a difference in talent. The Magic are still more talented than the Hawks thanks to having Howard, but it was clear after last year’s playoff series that the Magic were in the Hawks’ heads as much as they were a superior team on the floor. That hurdle, at least, looks like it has been overcome. Monday’s win was pretty decisive, no fluke.

Now hopefully if these two teams square off in the 2nd round of the playoffs, it will be a competitive series.

Big Ray

December 22nd, 2010
7:04 am

Ray 2 ,

Sorry about all the eaten posts, I don’t know what the blog monster was thinking. I restored them.

L-QUE ,

A lot of those moves are ones that could have/should have been made in the offseason. The problem with stuff like that is if you don’t do it in the offseason, and some other team beats you to it….you don’t get to redo it during the season. Didn’t sign T-Mac in the offseason? You can’t get him from the Pistons without giving something up, which means you don’t get to name your price.

Monta Ellis is quite a talent, but what does it take to get him? And, he’s not a true pg or even a lead guard, if you ask me. That’s why they drafted Stephen Curry. On the other hand, a lot of teams would covet his talent, and who can blame them? He’s fast paced and scores at will.

Big Ray

December 22nd, 2010
7:15 am

On the inquiries where Jamal is concerned, this is all I’ve found worth reading:

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2010/12/memphis_86_portland_73_blazers.html

The entire article is interesting reading (if you care to do so, that is), but here is the standout “rumor” part –

But if Cho isn’t talking, he at least appears to be working the phone lines. One Blazers player and one source within the organization said Cho has inquired about the availability of Atlanta guard Jamal Crawford, only to be rebuffed by the Hawks.

If that’s true, we shouldn’t be surprised. It could be that the Hawks don’t see anything on the Blazers roster that they want or think would fit. Or, it could be another case of “we like our core and are determined to stick with it.” Or, it could be a combination of the two, or something altogether different. You never know. But we all speculate…

Big Ray

December 22nd, 2010
7:20 am

kwooden1 ,

To get anywhere, especially in the playoffs, the Hawks will have to do exactly that. Better offense all too often beats a good defense. That’s why I always felt that last season’s regular season offensive efficiency ratings and all that crap amounted to nothing as was highly misleading. It was due in very large part to individual talent that was good enough to exploit through isolation plays. But against better coaching, better execution, and smarter play…it flopped. The playoffs were the perfect example of this.

Execution is paramount.

Najeh Davenpoop ,

No doubt it was a mental hurdle. Talent-wise, I never thought the Magic were 10 points per game better than us, let alone 25 ppg. And we’ve proven that we have what it takes to beat them. We don’t bring that every night, though. So while I would no longer dread/expect a blowout of epic proportions, I’m not sure just how competitive we’d be. Would we execute and play well enough together to win a couple games or more in a series, or would we simply lose in a less hideous fashion?

Imagine getting swept again, but this time only by 4 points per game. Not good enough…

O'Brien

December 22nd, 2010
8:05 am

The Magic lost again last night for the eighth time in 9 games. They are now trailing the Hawks and Heat in the division, and have fallen to 6th in the East.

And their next 2 games are against Spurs and Celtics. I wonder if their fans are panicking.

Big Ray,

One question with Jamal continues to be whether or not he is part of the core. If he was, then why draft Jamal 2.0?

If I was Rick, I would have inquired about Rudy Fernandez (SG) and Pryzbilla (Center) from the Blazers if they wanted Jamal.

O'Brien

December 22nd, 2010
8:06 am

MC comes on about the 16 or 17 minute mark of the podcast. He is saying the same thing we are saying.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2010/12/21/hang-time-podcast-episode-37/

Big Ray

December 22nd, 2010
12:24 pm

O’brien ,

Good question. My guess is that Jamal is NOT a part of the core. He’s a veteran guard with good talent, and the team drafted Crawford for a couple/few reasons:

1. Somebody liked him as a player. Gearon, Sund, Drew…take your pick.

2. The Hawks were looking to sell/trade a pick for cash one way or another. I doubt the deal simply fell into their laps, but I could be totally wrong and have no proof either way.

3. They knew they may or may not retain JC1. So, a replacement was in order. Clearly, they did not seek to bolster the 3 spot through the draft.

Ray

December 22nd, 2010
5:37 pm

@ Big Ray

Ray 2 was me I didn’t know what to do it seems I can’t see my own posts at the moment don’t know what’s happened.

Ray

December 22nd, 2010
5:43 pm

Wow I can’t believe it I can post again it’s a miracle. Lol

As far as all this trade talk is concerned be careful what you wish for. As you can see the Magic aren’t doing so great maybe they need a few more games to break in the new pick-ups, but still this was J-Rich and Arenas.

I’m telling everyone now the Magic are going to miss Gortat and Lewis plus Pietrus more than everyone thinks they are.

Plus looking at us it seems like Mo Evans just needs to go somewhere like seriously I think that knee injury took more of a toll then what we though at first. JC1, Zaza, and Mo looking like they about to hit the door. If I were ASG or Sund I’d talk to Memphis about Thabeet or talk to Dallas about Caron Butler and Haywood, or as someone else said about Portland.

Melvin

December 22nd, 2010
7:38 pm

Hawks look halfhearted. They should easily put away this team but its going to be one of those grinding games b/c they have no intensity when they play these sub .500 teams…

Melvin

December 22nd, 2010
9:09 pm

*under my laptop desk laughing*

Nique said ‘Bibby shot probably put the dagger in the coffin”….

vava74

December 22nd, 2010
9:42 pm

Astro,

I watched the game and we won… however, I watched it 300 miles away from home.

Jinx officially over, or not?

Melvin

December 22nd, 2010
9:56 pm

Just read on ESPN ticker that Lebron is complaining about having to play a game on Christmas day. I swear this guy is not who they want him to be (MJ like)…

O'Brien

December 22nd, 2010
10:46 pm

That was JJ’s best half of basketball all season. If we can get that JJ back, that would do wonders for this team.

Even Marvin looked good. One thing I noticed is even when Horford has it going, the team goes away from him. They need to play through Horford more when he has it going.

Teague showed some flashes, but he needs to show it more often.

And I’m glad the ASG lawsuit has been settled. Hopefully they can find an investor. I know the Thrashers have one of the lowest payrolls in the league, so they can use the help.

Ray

December 22nd, 2010
11:33 pm

Great game by the hawks, but they are showing the side I hate seeing the most it seems the side that doesn’t feel like playing teams like Cleveland.

They need to get out there against teams like Cleveland and take care of business if they took care of business earlier they wouldn’t have had games like what happened in Boston or against Mil, Detroit, and the Nets(twice).

They need to beat teams like this by 25 or more points to make a statement that they aren’t any pretenders.

Ray

December 22nd, 2010
11:46 pm

Btw Big Ray

I’d like to know your take on the ASG settlement and what it does for the hawks cause I’m wondering that at this moment.

Big Ray

December 23rd, 2010
7:24 am

Solid win in double figures, as it should have been. Glad to see that despite some listless play here and there, no collapse.

So….Marvin didn’t like coming off the bench, eh? Learn something from this, kiddo:

1) Quick to remind people how you won a national championship in your lone year of college. Well, ya did it coming off the bench. Now you’re in the pros and it could happen in a similar fashion.

2) Doing what’s best for the team is about committing to that role, not just saying it for the camera and microphone as the PC thing to do.

3) Play like this more often, and a bench role will only be a situation of extenuating circumstances. You’ve disappeared enough times to make people think you’re better coming off the bench, anyway.

I can understand a veteran who has done some major things as a starter, but that just doesn’t describe Marvin. Historians can point to solid ‘07-’08 and ‘08-’09 campaigns, but that is the past, and it was solid , not necessarily anything to write home about.

Some guys are better off the bench, but can put up 17-18 points on a bad night. For Marvin, that’s a damn good night. You can talk about him being a 5th or 6th option on offense, but how much of that is Marvin, and how much of it is design? Few want to take on both arguments at the same time. Marvin coming off the bench is not about punishment, retribution, or just deserts. It’s about efficiency and optimization of resources. If it works better for the team, then do it. If not, then don’t.

But either way, Marvin should take a page from the books of guys like Udonis Haslem and Shane Battier. Just get the job done.

Ray

December 23rd, 2010
7:37 am

Marvin if you do read these blogs just know people are watching you play, and so far this season you look better, but no one knows how long it will be before you become in invisible again.

I don’t understand why he’d be upset coming off the bench since he did it in college, and not only that looking at his play the past 4 seasons the nimbers(lol j/k) he’s putting up are what people on the bench put out.

For crying out loud look at JC1 and his numbers when he’s on most nights.

Big Ray

December 23rd, 2010
8:02 am

Ray ,

To be honest, I don’t know what the settlement means in the grand scheme of things. Some insist that all along, it’s been business as usual. You can believe that, or you can not. I tend to have a mixed set of feelings about it.

Does it mean the Hawks will spend more money (most often asked question)? No. And do we really just want to see that, anyhow? Not really. The Hawks are spending plenty. What we’d like to see is wiser spending and perhaps some more creativity and perhaps calculated risk-taking here and there.

Will that happen? I don’t know. But if the theory that this court case situation hadn’t really affected the team finances and moves holds true…then why would we expect any improvement on the ownership/management front? At the same time, I can’t say that there won’t be any improvement (or maybe we should just say changes).

Personally, I’m taking a wait-and-see approach, with no real hopes of dramatic change along positive lines.

Big Ray

December 23rd, 2010
8:04 am

Melvin ,

You’re right. Lebron James will never be Michael Jordan. It’s just NOT in his DNA, not even close. What he’ll do is go down in history as another phenomenally talented athlete. He has all the physical capabilities to be a player on that uber-superstar level, but not enough of the mental qualities, or the intangibles. A few key bricks missing from that load.

And it shows: the team wins the most when Wade plays big.

wordsmithtom

December 23rd, 2010
8:13 am

The Marvin Haters Club just got to have something to yammer about. Now it’s because he didn’t like coming off the bench. Well, I take it as he wants to start….that he has pride… Anyway, it’s supposed to be “Coach’s Decision” as to who plays when. If coach thinks a player makes the team better coming off the bench, and he gives the player starter’s minutes doing so, is player any less a player? No. Marvin played well last night; he played well coming off bench against Orlando. He helped the team win. Winning is what it’s about.

Oh, I forget…this is modern era basketball….stat stuffing matters more than winning. Sheesh. Leave MW alone. He’s doing well. Very well, indeed.

niremetal

December 23rd, 2010
10:02 am

Ray/Wordsmithtom,

I’m with wst on this one. I know you aren’t a hater, Ray, but I think you read a bit more into Marvin’s statements than is there. He said he didn’t like coming off the bench (who does?) but that he’d do whatever he needed to for the good of the team. Frankly, I’d be more worried if he WAS ok with being “demoted” to the bench, because that would indicate apathy.

Moreover, isn’t one of the main criticisms about Marvin that he is content to “disappear” and play a lesser role on the team? Haven’t we said before that we WANT him to stop being so complacent?

Lastly, Marvin has played well the last couple games. He played very well in the game where he came of

niremetal

December 23rd, 2010
10:06 am

Whoops, got cut off there:

Lastly, Marvin has played well the last couple games. He played very well in the game where he came off the bench, despite being unfamiliar with that role. I’m not sure what you were getting at by your “doing what’s best for the team is about committing to that role, not just saying it for the camera and microphone as the PC thing to do” point, Ray. I mean, you’re criticizing him for what he said for a camera and microphone, not what he has done on the floor. Did he play any less hard when he came off the bench? In fact, hasn’t he seemed to play harder since that demotion became reality, even if for just one game?

In terms of his actions on the floor (the only reality that matters for an NBA player), hasn’t Marvin done exactly what we would have wanted him to do in response to being benched?

wordsmithtom

December 23rd, 2010
12:23 pm

Niremetal. You said it far better than I did. Bingo.
LD sets up the lineup according to matchups. Marvin played his role, like it or not, and played well. There will be nights when he’s “odd man out” due to matchups. This was one criticism I had of Woody…..a foolish consistency that led to other teams using that against us. LD has said that he wants other teams adjusting to us, and not the other way around. Now that he’s doing this, we see fruit.

O'Brien

December 23rd, 2010
12:34 pm

I think some fans wanted Marvin to respond (on camera and to the media) like Jamal did.

When Jamal came here, he was an established scorer, and is one of the few players in the league to score 50 points for different teams. But said he had no problems coming off the bench, and he understands his role, and he embraced it.

However, it just seems like he feels entitled to starting, just because he has always started. He needs to relaize the impact he can have coming off the bench (more touchers, give the bench a much needed spark, and he can watch the flow of the game befor coming in).

That being said, I have no issues with him not satisfied about going to the bench. I hope it lights a fire under him, so he can continue his improved play.

lukas

December 23rd, 2010
1:17 pm

O’Brien,

Cosign your post. “Entitled” sums up Marvin’s motivation, but the reality is that he hasn’t “earned” that spot and he’s playing it due to lack of other options. In the former years, Chills should had taken that spot but Woody was being Woody. Now it only took a decent performance of Smoove at the 3 for LD to make an adjustment. I do hope that Marvin feel some kind of threat and starts playing at least consistent.

niremetal

December 23rd, 2010
2:23 pm

Where the hell do you get “entitled” from?

lukas

December 23rd, 2010
2:37 pm

Nire,

“However, it just seems like he feels entitled to starting…” O’Brien’s 12:34pm post, first sentence of the 3rd paragraph.