“We’re not playing hard enough”, say the Hawks

Is that all it has really come down to? Every time you turn around, some guy wearing a Hawks jersey is saying, “we’re not playing hard enough.” Oh, wait just a second. I forgot the rest of what has become a sickening cliche. They’re not playing hard enough “…all the time.”

Really. Is that your final answer?

It’s amazing. A fan base that is constantly accused of not caring enough is now being told by the team’s players that apparently, they don’t care enough. For all the criticisms of the moves that the Atlanta front office made or didn’t make (for whatever reasons), nothing is as ominous as that which just keeps coming up in print after every game, win or loss. The assertion being made at the moment is that it’s not about what the Hawks can’t do, it’s about what they won’t do.  Now of course, your first indication might be to point to the Hawks’ record, which at 7-4, would not indicate that things are nearly as bad as we make them sound. That is, until you examine precisely who the Hawks have beaten, and in what fashion.

Let’s not push the panic button. Why? Not because it’s too early in the season. That would be the easiest cliche to latch onto. No, we don’t need to push the panic button because panic is what happens when that what you least expected and least predicted to happen, is exactly what happens. It’s when you have nearly every reasonable expectation of being safe, then finding out you’re in a lot of danger. Panic is when you don’t know what to do. But the Hawks swear up and down that they do know what to do. They just won’t do it…all the time.

 A mere eleven games into the season, Larry Drew sounds like a man who isn’t beaten yet, but you have to wonder just how much he can take. The man has listened to and observed the same issues for the last six years. Now, as head coach of the same crew, he has to find a way to convince a group of guys to do the very things they already seem to know that should be doing.

The Fault Line

Where do you place Larry Drew on the infamous “fault line?” Is he doing his job? Has he given the team a good guideline and gameplan? Despite the turnovers, which some would argue are a natural by product of the situation and obligatory learning curve, Drew’s offense seems to take better advantage of the team’s talents than we’ve ever seen before. With the exception perhaps of Jamal Crawford, guys “get theirs” without having to make a concerted effort to do so. In fact, it’s good enough to where some teams find themselves going to a zone offense just to slow Atlanta down. All during camp and preseason, everything out of the mouths of the players suggested that they were very pleased with the new offensive scheme. Okay, so then why deviate from it?

Defensively, Drew has decided against scheming to hide the abilities or efforts of some players, and simply holding guys accountable for defending. It doesn’t always work (the argument here is usually that it centers on ability), but there have been concerted flashes of effort from previously unlikely sources. So is Drew to blame here? What is he doing wrong?

Two guys need to be paying very close attention right now. Michael Gearon and Rick Sund. If you think the idea of the core of this team comes from Rick Sund, you might want to think again. Two theories abound here. Either Sund has come up with the idea of the core of Hawks players, and has sold Gearon on the concept…or the concept is Gearon’s , and Sund simply complies with his wishes, offering little or no input. Perhaps neither theory matters at the moment. What does matter is how much attention these guys are paying to what their players are saying and doing. Obviously the answer to the fan base during the offseason, was that the team as constructed merely needed a new guide. Now the new guide is saying some of the exact same things the old guide was saying. Again, didn’t the new guy bring a new plan? Didn’t the players say they liked the plan? Has there been any evidence to suggest that the new plan is ineffective or otherwise flawed?

All this time, we as fans screamed for changes, horrified at the efforts and results of last season’s playoffs. Sure, there was a lot of hollering about coaching, and that had plenty of merit on it’s own. But there was also a lot of hollering about the roster. Of course, that was when times got tough, especially at the end of the season. Here we are at the beginning of the season, and already the looks have started, with the finger pointing right around the corner. And the noise…the noise is coming from the players themselves.

Is this overreaction? Analyzing too early? Well, after which of the Hawks seven wins has there not been a caveat of some type attached, by the players themselves? Why all this noise from a group of guys with a winning record so far? And what ever happened to being one of the best home teams in the League? Seven games in, the Hawks are an even 3 and 3 at home, and 4 – 1 on the road. Should we rejoice in this?

 

HAWKS VS PACERS

Every year there seems to be a team that flies under the radar for a while, before coming up strong. Arguably, the Bucks were that team in the East before suffering the loss of starting center Andrew Bogut at the most inopportune of times. This year, the sleeper team is not what some would call a sexy pick. It’s amazing what an offseason will do for some teams, and some players. Everyone watches the wonder that is John Wall up in Washington, D. C. Chicago’s once bright future is in doubt with the loss of newly signed Carlos Boozer, and the fact that they still must lean too heavily on pg Derrick Rose. But what of Indiana?

No one on their squad short of Danny Granger gets any headlines, yet here the Pacers are, chugging along with a .500 record, not quite the one dimensional joke that they were last season. Indiana has only been truly blown out in one game, a 101-75 loss in Philadelphia back in early November. On the other end of the spectrum, they completely crushed Denver 144-113 about a week later.

Here’s the deal with Indiana – you can’t just game plan to contain Granger and let the rest of the guys do their thing. For the first time in a while, the Pacers have a fairly solid starting lineup. Guess what that means? They also have a somewhat viable bench, as the guys they were forced to start last year are now reserves. Let’s get into the key players.

Backcourt

The addition of Darren Collison to the Indiana lineup has given the Pacers a solid pg with some decent size and shooting capability. Collison has yet to show exactly where he belongs in the East pecking order of point guards, and doesn’t figure to be too very high in a field that boasts Derrick Rose, Rajon Rondo, John Wall, and other credible names (forgive me if I don’t mention them all). But, Collison has proven that last season was no fluke, when he filled in admirably for the injured Chris Paul in New Orleans. Third on the team in scoring and first in assists, Collison is shooting quite well from the field and adds some credible defense as well. Collison’s play allows the Pacers to bring the lightning quick but fragile TJ Ford off the bench, instead of burning him with starter’s minutes.

Point guard play isn’t the only thing that has improved Indiana, though. The return of guard/forward Mike Dunleavy gives them another legit perimeter threat with size. The heady Dunleavy can play the two or the three, and makes it even harder for defenses to key in on Danny Granger. As a result, Granger is shooting 48% from the field and 42% from beyond the arc, scary numbers indeed when you’re talking about a guy with his talent. But that’s not all. Dunleavy also defends a bit, and provides both passing and is a legit rebounder. Better yet, he allows the Pacers to choose between Dahntay Jones and Brandon Rush when deciding who to bring off the bench, rather than having to thrust either one into the starting backcourt.

The Frontcourt

Literally the biggest story for this franchise is the seemingly quite sudden transformation of center Roy Hibbert. Gone is the slow, soft, and largely ineffective first round project that we saw last season. In his place is a guy who is second on his team in scoring, first in rebounding, and someone who looks like he could keep New Jersey’s Brook Lopez from making the all-star team a second year in a row. Whatever Hibbert did in the offseason has paid off, and it’s showing even against the better front lines in the NBA, as his potential looks to be catching up with his size.

Beside Hibbert is the energetic, athletic, and physical specimen known as Josh McRoberts. He’s neither Troy Murphy nor Jeff Foster, but what McRoberts gives up in scoring talent and outright rebounding/toughness, he’ll make up for with hustle and effort. Behind him is Tyler Hansbrough, a smart hustler who shoots a very high percentage from the floor, and provides enough rebounding and effort when McRoberts inevitably gets into foul trouble.

Here’s the Deal

The Hawks are still more talented than the Pacers. I believe they’re still 10 to 12 points better on a given night, in which they play as they should. But the Pacers are on the cusp of proving to be a team that can’t be ignored or run roughshod over anymore. They’re healthier, they’re deeper, they’re experiencing some success, and they would like some more. If the Hawks lose focus in this game, they will lose this game, plain and simple. If they “don’t play hard enough”, I’ll wager that the Pacers will embarrass them. Now is not the time for this foolishness, and this ain’t Minnesota, where the talent pool alone all but guarantees a win for the opposing team.

Matchup to Watch – Al Horford vs. Roy Hibbert

Last season, Al Hoford made Roy Hibbert look like a draft bust, despite giving up a solid 4-5 inches and probably 40 pounds to the 7′2″ 280 lb center. Will the Hawks start Horford at center against Hibbert, and will it have the same results? Hibbert still gives up the quickness and ability to run the floor to Horford, but his improved game could be a load for Al on the other end of the floor. Could Hibbert force the Hawks to adjust the matchups?

For the sake of Afterthoughts – Jeff Teague vs. TJ Ford

Quick meets quick. Undeniably, Ford has the better jumpshot right now, but his quickness is a problem anytime he’s on the court. He’ll shoot past Bibby and make Jamal run through one screen too many, so maybe Teague gets another shot to make his presence felt here by keeping Ford from running the Hawks into the ground while Collison gets some rest. In fact, without such an effort, the Hawks could get into all sorts of trouble on the defensive end.

On the other side of the ball, Teague simply must improve his attack. The kid knows how to pass the ball, often to the right people and at the right times, but he continues to be no threat to score.

311 comments Add your comment

Big Ray

November 15th, 2010
8:07 pm

For the record, I don’t….LOL. Not any that couldn’t be picked apart in a matter of minutes, that is.

Big Ray

November 15th, 2010
8:11 pm

MannyT ,

The funny thing is, you don’t hear much about Larry Drew being at fault here. The players are telling on themselves so much, nothing Drew does will gain any significant attention. He uses his bench prodigiously, so that’s one non-Woody trait. He plays Teague during serious minutes of the game. Another non-Woody trait. He doesn’t run an offense that tends to bog down predictably. He doesn’t run a gimmicky switch defense all the time.

Drew is being judged almost solely on what he does or doesn’t do in comparison to his predecessor, from what I’ve seen. Is that truly judging him as a coach? Not really.

In the meantime, I share your consternation where Indiana is concerned. This is the type of fire that is either going to forge a stronger unit, or burn these guys straight up. Already, the malignant stares and post game comments have started. Finger pointing is next.

Hawks either rise up or fly apart. We’ll definitely know before February comes around. Definitely.

O'Brien

November 15th, 2010
8:39 pm

Big ray,

Good point about LD being judged by how different he is from woody.

Because there has been a couple games where he stuck with the bench too long (dead in the water). I understand he wants to bring the bench along, but he also needs to realize when he needs to make a move.

Or the Phoenix game down the stretch when he had bibby in playing defense. None of the players went to help bibby, but I think there have been things LD has done as mistakes, but they get overlooked.

Or when he leaves horford on the bench too long. Part of it is he still a rookie coach, and part of it is he is anti-woody. But there are things he needs to work on as well.

Big Ray

November 15th, 2010
8:52 pm

O’brien ,

I believe you’re right. Surely Drew has plenty to work on. I’ll be the first to say I haven’t the first clue on how to find that balance between developing the bench and taking them out of the game when things aren’t clicking.

I do like his response to that – “I need to try different combinations.” I believe he’ll do it, which is what makes me okay with those mistakes (while still acknowledging they are indeed, mistakes). But there I am, doing exactly what I accuse everybody else of doing – believing him because….he’s not Woody. Woody says he’ll make a change, we never saw it. My only defense is that I watched him take Jamal out of his usual spot in the 4th quarter (late in the last game) and go with somebody else (was it Mo and marvin?). That was a departure from what we’re used to.

That whole bench thing is so tricky. How long do you leave certain guys in? Do you sacrifice some leads, and yes maybe even some wins by committing to the development of a particular bench unit? Will it pay off? We’re still handcuffed by the chicken vs. egg argument: Is the bench simply ineffective because they’re simply ineffective, or are they ineffective because they haven’t grown as a unit?

Glad I don’t have to make these decisions, but it seems that Jamal Crawford is the popular villain in this story for the moment. And those who paint him as such may just be right…

Big Ray

November 15th, 2010
9:27 pm

On Javale McGee, this is from the last blog:

O’brien ,

I’ve coveted Hinrich for a while now, but I don’t think he’ll ever wear an Atlanta jersey. I kinda hate the thought.

Josh/Teague for McGee/Hinrich, huh? I do have to say it’s interesting. He gives us a seven footer with a bit of size (and definitely some athleticism). How’s his attitude and work ethic? Now here’s the real question – why’s this kid only playing 23 mpg if Washington has 3 no name centers behind him? His field goal percentage is rich (62%), but beyond his blocks (2.9 per game), there is very little reason to get excited (7.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg).

On this rumored trade offer of Jason Thompson for Jeff Teague:

Interesting. What I find interesting is a few things.

1) Jason Thompson was kept in favor of Spencer Hawes, another sizeable guy who was shipped out. I thought Thompson had showed quite well against us when we played the Kings last season, and was well on the path. He put up 22 points, 12 rebounds, and 5 assists in one game against us, then 14 and 5 in the other.

Dalembert came in the Hawes trade. I don’t if Thompson is as bad as some people say he is. What I do know is that the only person who gets significantly more rebounds than he does, is Samuel Dalembert. And with the exception of the hard-working Carl Landry, none of the Kings bigs are shooting any better than Thompson is.

Sac-Town is in a state of serious flux, and nobody knows what is what with their bigs. I’d argue no way is Thompson any dumber than the goonish and enigmatic Dalembert, who only sees the court because he can rebound when motivated, and because he is the only consistent threat as a shot-blocker. Otherwise, the man is a malcontent and a foul magnet. Seriously, look at the other guys. Landry, as good as he is, manages less than one more rebound per game than does Thompson, despite getting twice the minutes, roughly.

Cousins is a beast and a lottery pick, so he gets his playing time. But 22 minutes a game and 6.2 boards isn’t wowing me. No one of consequence on the team is shooting 46% or above, save Landry (47%) and Udrih (47%).

2) This trade that never happened has Marc Stein and ESPN attached to it. Automatically, the situation is questionable. The Kings do need another pg, but the Hawks need one as badly. The difference is the Hawks may find themselves in a better position to acquire one through trade, than Sac-Town will. But here’s the kicker – the rumor states that the trade “featured” Teague and Thompson. Does that not suggest that something else was involved? Who was it? What was it, that made Sund (or Gearon) say nay to the proposal, assuming it ever even happened?

superiorblogman

November 15th, 2010
10:32 pm

This game should prove to you inferior bloggers that the Hawks will always be an inferior organization. The Hawks picked Marvin Williams over Danny Granger and Jeff Teague over Darren Collison. The PG and SF positions will be Indiana’s 2 advantages at gametime. What a joke you idiots are.

niremetal

November 15th, 2010
11:45 pm

Yeah, Danny Granger. Yeah, THAT is the #1 “what could have been” that I think about with respect to the Marvin pick :roll:

kwooden1

November 16th, 2010
1:03 am

These are my thoughts in terms of these first 11 games, including the fact that I’ve missed at least 6 of the games. The offensive clearly works well, but they don’t execute it all the time. (its not instinctive yet) I don’t think much of stats, but to make my point the HAWKS opponents are grabbing 2 more offensive rebounds, getting 2 more steals and attempting 7 more shots per game than the HAWKS. The HAWKS aren’t an efficient offensive or defensive team at this time. I think that is the reason they give up leads throughout the game.. I don’t think their roster is as bad as some on the blogs say, I would actually like to see the roster for a least 20 games before making any judgments.

For the next 10 games, I would like to see Jeff keep the ball in his hands longer and setup Mo and Jamal more often. I would also like to see more guys stay back to secure defensive rebounds. Most of all I would like to see more consistent execution of the offensive. If those things can happen, I think the team will take another step forward in terms of growth for the Playoffs.

GO HAWKS!!

Big Ray

November 16th, 2010
2:22 am

kwooden1 ,

Good points, all. On the subject of Teague, I don’t think he can accomplish this without a little barking. Mo Evans has few issues with being set up in a position to score, or playing within the flow of the offense. Jamal is a different story. Teague must communicate with him to get within the flow of the offense. If he keeps dumping the ball off to Jamal as soon as he gets across the court, then Jamal is going to continue to assume that the offense is on his hands. Jamal will do what Jamal does – run things his own way. Not out of selfishness or malice, but out of pure habit. Teague has to take control when he’s out there, or he’ll continue to be little more than a byline in the offense.

Big Ray

November 16th, 2010
2:23 am

LOL @ Niremetal ….

Ed

November 16th, 2010
5:58 am

LD doesn’t stand a chance as long as a key player is openly defying the change Larry brought to the offense. JC didn’t get his request for a trade or new contract so he’s going to do as he pleases all the way while attempting to keep his numbers up to last year’s.Really anyone that won’t buy in needs to be benched until they have a change of heart or are traded. Josh IMHO needs to be traded to a strong team that will keep him in check, and where Smith wouldn’t have a problem fitting (his game) end.

O'Brien

November 16th, 2010
7:47 am

Big Ray,

I would be surprised if a trade proposal came from the ATL side. It just doesnt seem like Rick’s style, especially so early in the season.

kwooden1,

I dont know why Teague feels like he has to give the ball up to Jamal. And he can’t blame that on Woody, because Woody is gone. As a PG, he needs to call some plays, run the offense, tell guys where they need to be on the floor etc.

But I hardly see any of it. In transition he is good, because he just goes, and doesnt have to think about it. But in the halfcourt, he defers to Jamal a lot. And in the half-court, he is hesitant to shoot.

We need him to play better as the season goes along, especially since Bibby has slowed down the last few games. And we will need solid PG play in the playoffs

wordsmithtom

November 16th, 2010
8:40 am

Next 3 games will tell a lot about the potential for this year. Tonight is a test, no doubt. And Dallas and Boston pose challenges. We will see if the return of Mo and Marvin will make a difference. I suggest they will, but we will see.

As for effort, the only stinker was the Bucks game; the other losses were close, and we played shorthanded.

No excuses now….

wordsmithtom

November 16th, 2010
8:43 am

Off topic: anyone see that AJC pix this morning of a guy from Kennesaw dunking over GaTech guy in a rout? Ugly game for Tech. Does not bode well when you lose that badly to a NOBODY.

Astro Joe

November 16th, 2010
9:33 am

Big Ray, going back to last night… hiring the team’s lead assistant was not going to change the culture. Again, I was all in support of firing Woody after the playoffs. There are two steps here. Fire, Woody. I’m 100% behind that move. Now, comes the next decision. Firing Woody and hiring Drew should NOT be viewed as one decision. If the culture was bad (as reported by Al Horford among others) and replacing the players is either expensive, risky or difficult, then why attempt to change the culture by hiring someone who was an integral part of the culture for 6 years? And this doesn’t mean that Drew is a bad strategist… it just means that (IMO) he’s in the wrong place at the wrong time. This team needed a cultural change agent, not a motion offense guru.

Reports of Horford and Smith jawing at each other. Previous reports of alleged chemistry issues. Statements about “not trusting each other”. Confessions of a lack of effort by the players. Someone needed to come in and rip apart the lockerroom culture. Even if all of the players bonded together in shared hatred of their new coach, that would have been better than more of the same player-related issues from the past year or so. Drew was supposed to fix that by bringing accountability. Yet, how many examples of accountability have we seen so far? Is he really going to bench Horford for Zaza when our center produces less than 6 rebounds? When Joe & Jamal get iso-happy, do we really want to see JC2 in crucial portions of a game?

The Drew hiring comes off to me like someone said in a closed-door meeting “look guys, we’re close. If we introduce too much change, we could slide backwards and lose the gains of the past 2-3 seasons. So let’s opt for a modest change. Hire Drew, give him 2 years guaranteed, see what happens with the new CBA and re-group once the new labor agreement is in place and Drew’s contract is expiring”.

But I disagree with the very first premise, “look guys, we’re close”. I’ve said it ad nauseum, this team’s ceiling (IMO) is the 2nd round. Meanwhile, we have another 1.8 seasons to wait for the experiment to conclude.

vava74

November 16th, 2010
9:37 am

I will repeat this to exhaustion:

until Jamal falls off the rotation and Teague is the first man off the bench to relieve Bibby the second unit will not produce and we will continue to be exploited by any team which has a moderately fast PG.

It’s that simple.

Our first unit has come out strong in almost every single game. Then Jamal comes in and all goes South.

There were a few exceptions, but this is the norm.

vava74

November 16th, 2010
9:51 am

Ray,

Horford is only averaging 31 minutes per game.

His rebounding rate per 38 minutes is 11,11.

Josh’s per 38 minutes is 10,74.

Now comes the interesting stat:

Last year’s numbers:

Al per 38 min – 10,67
Josh per 38 min – 9,33

BOTH HAVE IMPROVED (so far) THEIR REBOUNDING NUMBERS.

vava74

November 16th, 2010
10:20 am

However, team wise:

09-10 – rebounds per game 41,7

10-11 – rebounds per game 41,18

There is a decrease on the rebounding average.

If you associate this stat with the FG%:

09-10 – .468

10-11 – .493

You will see that the decrease can be mitigated – eventually – but a lower number of offensive rebounds available.

However, that does not explain all.

Now, if you look at JJ, Jamal and Bibby’s rebounding numbers, maybe you will find an explanation:

JJ per 38:

09-10 – 4,647
10-11 – 3,985

Jamal per 38:

09-10 – 3,104
10-11 – 2,189

Bibby per 38:

09-10 – 3,185
10-11 – 2,996

HOWEVER,

Our back court snatching less rebounds and the front court snatching more could be the result of less switching, in which case maybe the frontcourt should have better numbers…

Astro Joe

November 16th, 2010
10:23 am

When comparing various defensive stats from this year vs. last year, things are generally the same or a hair better than last season. That is good news, especially when considering the absence of Marvin and Mo. That surprised me, considering that we have allowed some lottery-bound teams to score against us (e.g. 100+ points for the T’Wolves the other day).

O'Brien

November 16th, 2010
10:41 am

wordsmithtom,

As a GT, I have been frustrated with Paul Hewitt. Unfortunately, Tech is stuck with him.

I’m not sure if you are aware, but after they made the final 4 a few years ago, the Athletic Director at the time gave him an automatic rollover contract (basically a lifetime contract).

So if they ever fire him (whether thats this year, last year, or next year, or whenever), they will have to pay him ~$7 mil.

O'Brien

November 16th, 2010
10:50 am

LD was not my first choice as HC. But the biggest advantage of his hire (imo) was that he had a first hand knowledge of the issues.

And when Woody was here, LD was the guy players would go to when they had issues, so there was some level of comfort between him and them.

What I should have kept in mind is that just because he has first hand knowledge of the issues does not mean it will be easy for him to fix them.

Right now, we have no idea how long it will take to change the culture, or if the culture will be changed with the current players.

Its still only 11 games though, so there is still time. I’m just tired of hearing the same excuses this year like we have heard for the last 2 years under Woody.

Will

November 16th, 2010
10:57 am

The main problem for the hawks, is that they do not have a legit floor leader.
They do not even talk or communicate on the court at all.

niremetal

November 16th, 2010
11:17 am

Stupid vava, with his European “commas in place of periods for decimal points” numbers…

Hawk n the Ham

November 16th, 2010
12:16 pm

*In the film room*

LD, “Ok Bibby, there you go AGAIN getting burned off the pick and roll. Do I need to call your mama?”

Bibby, “No sir.”

LD, “I will.”

Bibby, “No sir, my defense is good.”

LD looking over his back shoulder to the door, “Mama Bibby! Mama Bibby, come in please!”

Bibby, “CRAP.”

Stevo

November 16th, 2010
12:39 pm

i was wondering if any of you people still think teague is worth anything? he is wholly incapable of unseating bibby, which would not be that hard for any second year player with any kind of real non-role playing future. maybe some of you will recognize (although i doubt you can be honest enough with yourselves to do so) that sometimes a player doesn’t play that many minutes because he is just not very good. the guy has absolutely NO jump shot, and quickness will pretty much do you no good if your opponent can play five feet off of you without fear. And truly, this was obvious to any of us who saw him play for even a few minutes. yet most of you, somehow, just envisioned that it was just about getting the pt he needed to blossom. i hope you all are suitably embarrassed for yourselves (i know you are not…). and you know who you are.

doc

November 16th, 2010
12:46 pm

o’b, i expect woody knew what the issues were too. a novel concept around here, but he had to coach around them as well, what any manager or coach does. how he chose to manage got him fired. isnt that what happens everywhere? woody wasnt as articulate to the media nor transparent which could be good or bad.

we are where we were two years ago under woody. we win first 6, lose next four. it is the only time in the history of the nba that a team has done that. will we still be above .500 in eight days? could be close.

O'Brien

November 16th, 2010
1:16 pm

doc,

I dont put too much into the win first 6, lose next 4 (although we’ve done it twice in the last 3 years). If we had won the first 4, then lost 4, but won the next 2, the record would be the same 6-4. Or if we had lost the first 4, then won the next 6, same record.

As for Woody and the issues, I dont think he put enough effort into trying to address. imo, LD is putting the effort in, but with the same players, and LD being around for the last 6 years, culture change has been slow.

O'Brien

November 16th, 2010
1:18 pm

Stevo,

Aren’t you a little premature in writing off Teague, who is in his second year, especially since this is the first year he has been getting consistent PT?

And for the record, most of us were not saying that Teague just needed the minutes to blossom. What we were saying (last year), is that Teague needs more minutes so that the Hawks could find out if he is the answer or not.

Do you really think it should be easy for a second year player, who was the 7th PG taken in the draft to unseat Bibby? Give the kid some time.

I agree that so far he has not been impressive, especially on offense. But he is better than Bibby when it comes to perimeter defense, and Teague does a good job of pushing the ball in transition.

His passing is ok, but he has no jump shot at all. However, Rondo’s jump shots are almost as bad as Teague’s. So there are other ways Teague can contribute. He just needs to keep working on it.

Maybe he doesnt develop into a starter. Maybe he improves just enough so he can be a solid backup for 15-18 minutes per game. There’s nothing wrong with that, is there?

But if he doesnt improve enough in time, then Rick needs to make a move to bring a better PG in here.

Astro Joe

November 16th, 2010
2:55 pm

OB, LD is more prescriptive with the media than Woody was. Woody would say “we want to win the SE division”. LD says how he plans to use specific players and employ specific schemes. But it doesn’t mean that LD doesn’t want to win the SE division just like it didn’t mean that Woody wasn’t attentive to details. Remember when Sekou asked Woody after Game 5 of the Bucks series if he would change his switching defense approach? Woody said “no”. And when Game 6 started, Woody had changed the scheme.

LD is a better salesman than Woody. He has implemented a fan-friendly offense and gives great fan-friendly quotes. But when you look behind the curtain, it all looks pretty much the same. Like Big Ray said, “we’re not playing hard enough”.

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niremetal

November 16th, 2010
5:17 pm

He has implemented a fan-friendly offense and gives great fan-friendly quotes. But when you look behind the curtain, it all looks pretty much the same.

So it looks pretty much the same, except that Drew implemented a new offense that addressed the single biggest failing of Woodson – not just according to fans, but according to Hubie Brown, Mike Fratello, and anyone else with a functioning brain who watched a Hawks game. Except for that one, tiny, insignificant, piddling little change (and getting rid of the “always switch” defense, and actually adjusting his rotations in-game based on how guys are actually performing in real-time instead of dogmatically making the same substitution patterns, and holding players accountable by calling them out during practice in a way that never happened under Woody…all of which were other issues with Woody that were voiced by players and coaches, past and present) it’s all “pretty much the same.”

Oooooook…

vava74

November 16th, 2010
6:48 pm

Less excuses to lose this one:

Darren Collison, Tyler Hansbrough out

vava74

November 16th, 2010
6:54 pm

nire,

Was that really you? :-D

Since we are on the subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_mark

vava74

November 16th, 2010
7:22 pm

Hibbert is not only 7′2” but he has also huge arms… if he gets his act together on D (and I don’t mean blocked shots) he will be a very interesting player

vava74

November 16th, 2010
7:30 pm

oh my goodness… the minute we get a lead, we fall asleep…

vava74

November 16th, 2010
7:31 pm

where’s everybody?

vava74

November 16th, 2010
7:36 pm

there’s no place like home…

someone give a pair of ruby high heels to Teague!

vava74

November 16th, 2010
7:37 pm

I think I will go TS style and post under several names to keep me company…

Astro Joe

November 16th, 2010
7:40 pm

nire, until we see how it works in the playoffs, we only have the regular season record to evaluate the coach. And so far, it looks basically the same to me. I recall someone saying the Jamal trade would be good because it would give Joe a little freedom during the playoffs. That didn’t quite work out, he was the SMOY but the playoffs ended the same (and Joe struggled). So yeah, so far, a 7-4 start doesn’t feel a lot different than the last 2 years. And the issues with effort haven’t been resolved by ball movement. The car looks better but runs the same.

vava74

November 16th, 2010
7:50 pm

Our pick and roll D sucks.

Mostly due to lack of effort.

Teague was being lazy or very distracted… always positioning himself in the wrong spot and easily picked.

We started boxing out and then stopped.

Marvin looks horrible…

niremetal

November 16th, 2010
7:57 pm

until we see how it works in the playoffs, we only have the regular season record to evaluate the coach. And so far, it looks basically the same to me.

…except for all the ways in which it’s different.

vava74

November 16th, 2010
8:00 pm

and JJ looks a ghost…

vava74

November 16th, 2010
8:03 pm

Bogus call alert!

niremetal

November 16th, 2010
8:04 pm

You know you’re not giving it your all when TJ Ford outworks you for a rebound…

vava74

November 16th, 2010
8:10 pm

we are being out rebounded 12-25 at the half…

vava74

November 16th, 2010
8:12 pm

Jamal with a (+-) of -9 so far which is just about average to what he has been doing for us…

Collins with a (+-) of +7 so far (he can thank Bibby though)

And, we all know that our luck at the 3 point line will not continue at this level…

Big Ray

November 16th, 2010
8:14 pm

Astro Joe ,

Per your 9:33 a.m. post, you’ll get ZERO arguments from me. ZERO.

As to this game so far…..

I have a criticism for Larry Drew, coupled with a question.

Why, Larry, did you not bench Josh Smith early in the first quarter? That dribble up the court ending in a 20 foot jumper a mere 2 seconds into the shot clock would have been reason enough. Follow it up with another dribble up the court and a wildly errant pass behind Mike Bibby, and I find your conduct (or lack thereof) questionable. Heh….but I’m just a fan.

Astro Joe

November 16th, 2010
8:15 pm

nire, are you saying the record is different? If scheme were more important than the record, then wouldn’t Eddie Jordan still be in Philly and Jim Cleamons in… where did he coach for 5 minutes again?

This team is GREAT in the first 6-8 minutes…. pretty much dominant. vava, any idea why things go south after the first 6-8 minutes? :twisted:

Let’s hope they can pull away in the 2nd half.

vava74

November 16th, 2010
8:16 pm

Ray,

Because Josh was the only guy rebounding the rock?

Astro Joe

November 16th, 2010
8:19 pm

Because accountability sounds good until you look at your bench options?