Hawks Fans: Jamal Crawford – Pay him or trade him?

Paging Rick Sund. Paging Rick Sund. I hope you’ve enjoyed your vacation, because it might be getting cut just a bit short, what with Jamal Crawford making some noise.

Then again, Sund is not known for being a quick mover in this business. Here’s a question for you right out of the gate, though. Will Sund move with near the swiftness in either paying or dealing Jamal, as he did in acquiring him? Of course, such a question comes with some caveats. One is that we don’t know whether that trade (in which the Hawks sent guards Acie Law and Speedy Claxton to Golden State for Jamal Crawford) just fell into Sund’s lap, or if it was something both the Warriors and the Hawks were planning for some time, or what. Does it really matter? As it stands, Sund is not known for hurrying to make any move (see Josh Smith, Josh Childress, etc), outside of the quick and attractive offer made to Joe Johnson shortly after the free agency period began. Where does Jamal and his demands stand?

So Jamal would rather be somewhere else playing than in Atlanta, if he can’t get an extension he finds to his liking? Isn’t this the same guy who signed a clause in his contract with Atlanta, stating that he would not opt out of the final year of his contract (that would be THIS year), in the trade that brought him here? Do you think he’s being selfish, or is he doing the smart thing from a business standpoint? Is this related to the looming Collective Bargaining Agreement, or is it personal? While you think about that, let’s look at the two options Jamal has put on the table, and what either of them could mean for the team.

 

PAY HIM !

Do you even have to think about it? Jamal is the reigning Sixth Man of they Year. He averaged roughly 18 points per game, which is no mean feat in the NBA. He was the second option on offense. Not only that, but aside from Joe Johnson, who else on this team is  a bonafide scorer/shooter at that level? I’m not talking about just being able to score in the teens. I’m talking about being able to lead a team in scoring. Being able to put up 20 or 30 points on any given night. Being able to take an opponent off the dribble. Being able to create your own shot anywhere inside the half court line. Who else on this team (again, aside from Joe) can do his own thing, and still score 18-20 or more, even on a bad shooting night (i.e. 7 for 21)? Josh Smith? Al Horford? That is the closest you’re going to get, and neither of those guys can get to the line enough to make up for bad shooting or a stifling defense. Not yet, anyway.

What happens if Joe Johnson incurs a serious injury? Who then can step up on offense? Mike Bibby? Sure, he has the range and the stroke, but is he still capable of getting those kinds of points for a couple of games? How about five to ten games? Twenty? Can Marvin Williams do it? Do I really have to ask? Lose Jamal, and you put some pressure back on Joe Johnson and the others. Lose Jamal, and you lose some things. You lose a guy who will take and make a long 3-pointer as the buzzer sounds, without flinching. You lose a guy who can excite the crowd. You lose a guy who can energize the team off the bench. Unless of course you think there are others on the bench who can come in and be that potent a threat. Can Mo Evans do that? Without Jamal, is the bench more than a bunch of also-rans?

 

TRADE HIM!

Pay him more money, are you crazy? We just signed Bibby to a contract before last season, that pays him roughly $6 million per year, and what was the reward? We got to watch his game decline as the year wore on. The same thing could happen with Jamal to some extent, as he is not going to get better as time goes on, not at the age of 29 or 30. Besides, we have two major things going for us – One is Larry Drew’s phenomenal offensive approach, which will not be based on isolation plays. Two, we have Jordan Crawford, who is a talent in his own right. And we don’t want him to rot away on the bench all season the way Teague nearly did last season, do we?

Look how stacked we are at the shooting guard position. There is Joe Johnson, Jamal Crawford, Mo Evans, and Jordan Crawford. Is this good team balance? How do you divide those minutes up without moving Joe and Jamal to other positions (small forward and point guard, respectively)? Is that efficient use of the team, or will it create matchup problems the Hawks don’t want to find themselves in? Also, doesn’t this team need a guy more suited to backup small forward? How about a third point guard in case Teague doesn’t pan out so well, or struggles all season? What about a better big man that the bench currently boasts? Couldn’t moving Jamal address one or more of those positions? Besides, the development of Teague and Jordan Crawford is pivotal for future considerations.

Back to Drew’s offense. If the idea is to move the ball around more and make more potent and efficient scorers out of the entire lineup, then will Jamal’s scoring prowess be needed at the level it was last season? Would he get the kind of shots and stats that made him Sixth Man of the Year last season? If not, does that diminish his value to the team? This team has one guy who can go into isolation mode if necessary, and will have to learn not to do so on a regular basis. Why keep a second one who might have the exact same issues?

 

So which route do you think the Hawks should go? Pay Jamal, or trade him….and why? Also, if he’s extended, how much should he be paid? The Hawks might want to be careful here, as an extension must also be reached with Al Horford, if the they don’t want to play the “watch, then match” game next summer, the way they did with Josh Smith. It’s rarely wise to do that with an All-Star player, particularly a young and promising one. Also, what ramifications might this have on the payroll? The Hawks want no part of the luxury tax, Pape Sy may not come over this year (if that buyout doesn’t work out), and the 13th roster spot has to be filled at some point.

201 comments Add your comment

O'Brien

August 29th, 2010
9:44 am

P.S. – even if Portland can do better ( in terms of value), I think Jamal Would be the best fit.

Bill

August 29th, 2010
10:03 am

The best option for the Hawks would be to trade Bibby & Marvin, but who would take their salary & what could you get back ?? What would you want for Crawford ? The Hawks nedd a true quality center so Al could move to Power Forward, Josh to the 3. What would it take for the Hawks to get Marc Gasol from Memphis (he could be the center answer plus he is young enough to be a huge part of our core team).
The Hawks have some question marks ( Teague, Williams, the bench if they trade Jamal plus the East got a lot better during the off season).
Your opinions ???

Big Ray

August 29th, 2010
10:05 am

wordsmithtom ,

I’d take a thug and a 3 as well. But who should we go after?

Big Ray

August 29th, 2010
10:14 am

Vava ,

I think it’s a business decision as well. On the clutch shooting….was he not clutch against Phoenix and a few other teams? Aside from JJ and Bibby, who do you want taking a long distance shot at the end of a game? Bibby’s shot has to be an open one, just about, and I’ve seen both guys miss plenty of clutch shots.

niremetal

August 29th, 2010
10:19 am

O’Brien,

I think you’re missing the point. Przybilla’s trade value isn’t as a player. It’s as an expiring contract. Trading him for another expiring contract would make little sense.

Big Ray

August 29th, 2010
10:19 am

Bill ,

I can’t lie. I like Marc Gasol. But I’ll wager the Grizzlies like him a lot, too. Judging how they look down low, I’d say that acquiring Gasol means parting with Al Horford. Want to do that deal? And no, nobody is taking Bibby or Williams for the money we signed them to.

BrittishAnger ,

I hope that Sund has kept some ideas in mind all along about Jamal. Many of us considered him to be a most likely trade candidate at some point. Who knew he would be the first to speak an official word on the subject?

Big Ray

August 29th, 2010
10:22 am

AJ ,

Etan Thomas is a decent enough addition to the roster. I just hope he can be in good enough shape to get the PT it would take for him to make a dent for us down low. Otherwise, just another “past the point of usefulness” vet. Hope he’s got something left. We sure could have used him pre-heart condition…

Big Ray

August 29th, 2010
10:25 am

Basketball Knowledge ,

Jamal is better than Joe? Okay. Prove your argument. :)

Maxxhawk ,

I don’t think we know for sure that Jordan is a better defender than Jamal. He’s yet to play a single NBA game, or against an NBA starter. Just sayin’……

niremetal

August 29th, 2010
10:31 am

On a related note, Jamal is in for a VERY rude awakening during the next year if he thinks his market value is on par with Ginobili, Terry, or Gordon. As MC pointed out, Terry and Gordon were younger (and Gordon MUCH younger) when they signed their extensions. As for Manu, he is a far, FAR better all around player than Crawford. So is JT, for that matter.

Next summer, Crawford will be a 31 year old shooting guard whose only marketable skill is that he can be an explosive scorer when his shot is on. When it’s off (which is decently often), he is quite literally one of the most detrimental players to have on the floor in the NBA because he is useless defensively and doesn’t do any of the “little things.” And he wants a $10M+/yr contract at his age?

Jamal, if you’re reading this – go get a new agent. The one you have is giving you bad advice.

doc

August 29th, 2010
11:04 am

aj, etan has been a name, much like kurt thomas, that has been on our begging list for several years. i am not sure but maybe it was honest abe who was one of his cheerleaders before he underwent his aortic reconstruction. he is a second legit back up something we havent seen here ever it seems. maybe he still has enough in his tank to resemble the starter he wanted to be in his battles with brendon. we will see if they get him or whether someone comes in a steals him from under our noses for an extra coke and a hershey bar, figuratively speaking of course. ;-)

manu is one of the mainstays in san antonio. he was never the starter but the finisher. go back and read from almost day one, i dont care about who starts, really how many minutes a guy gets but who is finishing games. they are the guys reliable and team players with multiple skills. that is why it was so foolish that chills was summarily allowed to go his way as he had not been a stater but a finisher. that is a very under rated category. it is one that doesnt get the bucks, looks or respect but it is necessary to have five of them on the floor at the end of games. i dont think jamal is quite of that ilk but really close when he is hot. he is more of a comeback type of guy that can get hot and pour it on to make a lost game winnable. me, i’d rather not be in the position to be out of a game and need a guy like that but with our hawks it may be a necessary evil.

vava, by those numbers isnt josh our mr clutch? i think that was how it looked during the season as i didnt go back and restudy it today. those numbers for the most part are of course a too small sampling size which is true for many of these stats that wouldnt hold up under real close scrutiny of other variables but are fun to refer to anyway as a fan. maybe id like to see a comparative assessment of shots total shots taken in the fourth quarter of close games that brings a tie or lead as a measure, rather than whatever their qualification is regarding length of time left in a game or direct outcome.

doc

August 29th, 2010
11:05 am

“fantasy game looks”

sam'l

August 29th, 2010
11:22 am

Did Jamal play lousy defence? I don’t know. I was too busy watching him create an offence on a team that didn’t have one. I would say, take him out behind the gym and tell him…..you have to play defence……the whole team has to learn to play credible defence.

When has Jamal Crawford ever been an “unruly player”.? His attitude (and Horford’s) have been about the best I’ve seen. You can’t trade Jamal Crawford……that would be stupid.

Make Teague and the other Crawford learn from Price (and possibly Bibby). Make Bibby an assistant coach. Look at the idea of involving ten strong, agile men in a swarming, never say die defense.

Someone said they didn’t seen anything from Evans last season. He had a bad year…he was better before last year….same with Wiiliams.

If…..Drew can inject some enthusiasm, brains and intelligence into Williams, Evans, Pachulia and Teague, rookie Crawford…….and have 10 players who all play defence……….you might get 60 wins……

The situation in Miami will become increasingly unstable after a few losses. Certainly the refs will e under league-wide pressure to start calling Wade for his numerous palms and LeBron for his
extra hop to the basket. Perhaps Dwight Howard will be limited to just 6 fouls per game like everyone else. Just this factor alone would make the Hawks contenders.

In the words of Britney Spears, leave Jamal alone….. .

O'Brien

August 29th, 2010
1:12 pm

Nire,

I got it now. And I agree on Jamal in for a rude awakening. Between a new CBA and his age, he could be looking at a 20-30% pay cut.

AJ,

I noticed etan Thomas only appeared in 23 games last season for OKC. Was he injured, or was it Because he was third string?

gatorboyVee

August 29th, 2010
2:54 pm

Hello…to all the IDIOTS talking about trading Crawford are just not getting it!!!! He won the 6th man award last year….a bona-fide scorer and stud…and these IDIOTS think that he can just be traded for ANYBODY to fill the slot!!!! Atlanta fans have a crazy knee jerk reaction everytime a player wants a larger contract or something…he should just be traded for some other “cheaper” or more “deserving” character type player, who usually sucks!!!!…thats STUPID thinking at it`s best…thats why this city will never win a major championship in BBall of Football!!!! EVER!!!! Quit being cheap and play PLAYERS for what they are worth…this should be a no brainer…give the guy an extension…or it`s going to be a long season!!!

i_am_soulstar

August 29th, 2010
3:27 pm

I don’t think people want to see him go, we just understand that we’re dealing with with the ASG here. Seeing how Horford’s due for a raise, the real question is will the ASG go over the salary cap to keep Crawford. If history is any indicator, then they probably won’t.

Wink

August 29th, 2010
5:57 pm

First – Pay HIM.

Second – it’s not personal.

Third – it’s good business for ASG too!!!

Now for REALITY:

They want pay him. This allows the ASG to observe him in LD’s unique offense. They will probably move him at the trade deadline.

Jamal was insurance for Bibby & JJ during their respective contract negoiations. The removal of the player option was a way to guarantee they would at least have Jamal as a scoring option, if JJ signed with another team. Since both JJ & Bibby are signed policy has matured. By the way, Jordan Crawford was the insurance policy, should Jamal take his current stance. This is why SG appears crowded.

For Jamal it can’t be personal, because he okayed the contract giving up his right to opt out. However, if you just saw JJ break the bank and saw first hand how Sund deals with Free Agents (Josh, Chillz) and then add in CBA agreement expiring, your “SMOY”, now would be a good time to ask for an extention or a trade. Jamal either will get his extension which I think he really wants or he knows there is a job waiting for him somewhere in the NBA, without going through the Sund FA freeze.

Lastly, it should make sense that if you signed JJ your leading scorer to 6 years, surly your second leading scorer in the season & PLAYOFFS, deserves to be given a little security as well. Really, the guy gave up his opt out clause and added tremendous value to the team.

I might also add, when the shot clock is running down in the Brand NEW offense; there is quite a bit difference in Iso Joe & Iso Jamal. Iso Joe you are looking at a dancer vs Iso Jamal is head to the basket. My preference to beat the shot clock I would prefer the 2nd option, Iso Jamal.

I wish they would just pay the man, give him his extension and move on. I would not welcome the ASG selling the bill of goods that they would use Jamal’s money to address a need. They will only stash it away with the 3mil, 2.7mil under cap, cap exemption they have, along with other assets they sent overseas; were it not mandatory that they have a 13th player signed that slot would stay vancant as well.

ASG Cheap!!!!!!

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2010
8:34 pm

OB, honestly, I’m not sure of the reason for his lack of time. I actually thought that he started the year with the T’Wolves. Again, I lost track of him. He was an undersized center who played with tenacity and defended well in the post and was a good shot blocker in his “prime”. But I’m not delusional, he was never much more than a good reserve. Hopefully, he has another “good reserve” half-year left in him… when you rent players one year at a time for the minimum, that’s all you are asking for… 40 good games. Somewhere in between the 65+ good games we received from Flip 2 years ago and the 8 good games we got from Joe Smith last year. Speaking of my man Joe, is he still out there looking for a job?

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2010
8:43 pm

Wink said “Lastly, it should make sense that if you signed JJ your leading scorer to 6 years, surly your second leading scorer in the season & PLAYOFFS, deserves to be given a little security as well. Really, the guy gave up his opt out clause and added tremendous value to the team”.

I don’t think it makes sense to tie up over $25M of a $70M payroll in the SG position (or $30M if he stays for this season). Secondly, Jamal was asked to give uo his opt clause to accept a trade to the Hawks. The trade-off was getting away from Nellie (who was treating him like an ugly step-child) AND his best chance at a playoff berth. He got his pay-off, the playoffs, a coach who used him extensively AND a SMOY award. In return, he gave the Hawks a few more wins. Both parties got something out of the deal. No need for either to have an attitude of “you woe me”.

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2010
8:44 pm

“you owe me”.

O'Brien

August 29th, 2010
9:21 pm

AJ,

Right now, the Hawks have 40% of their payroll tied up on one position, SG.

JJ – $16.3 mil, Jamal – $10.8 mil, Jordan – $1 mil.

Which is why Jamal should have been traded already.

Mike

August 29th, 2010
10:18 pm

Crawfords one of the coldest players in the league. ATL doesn’t deserve him. Joe johnsons honestly jealous of crawfords K and overall game. Trade him to the Knicks so we can have our hero back. He could be Mellos new JR. Bring back jerred jefferies!

King Teezo

August 29th, 2010
10:25 pm

I see plenty of ppl do not agree with JJ getting a max deal, but according to the terms of the NBA it is what he was owed by ATL or any other team that wanted him, its called a raise…Im pretty sure when you are do for a raise at your current job that you wanna get the max, if not you’re looking for a new career plain n simple…JJ was gonna get $100 million regardless, just ATL had an extra year to offer…I’m a Hawk fan to the bone and yea the amount he got is a lot, but he deserves it for coming to a team that looked like a JV squad a few years ago and really ever since S. Smith and Blaylock left…You can say for sure that without JJ ATL would be a lottery team…As for Crawford, he just needs to kick back and play his heart out this season to up his value for next year b/c no team is gonna offer him an extension, trade or not unless its MIN or some other bottom of the barrel team…Its not like he helped ATL advance thru the playoffs b/c the same thing has happened 3 years in a row, early exits…Peace…

doc

August 30th, 2010
1:35 am

You guys are playing with numbers and it isnt as though when jj comes out Jamal exclusively the guy in. They do interchange between Jamal doing point and jj doing the three. Throw in that LD’s offense may need less of a point then they play plenty together. Why don’t you guys say it truthfully that about 28 mil of 67 goes to an avg of 42 of the 98 points per game. Looking at it that way it is about even production for pay.

vava74

August 30th, 2010
6:44 am

Jamal cannot start on a real playoff caliber team and last year he was over used by Woody.

He harmed us in many occasions in almost the same measure as he helped us. He should have been used more sparingly.

Spectacular? Yes, extremely, but also a huge liability. Nothing against him, but he simply can’t play D and its a two way game.

Last years’ team was weaker that 08-09: less defense, less toughness.

Better record almost purely on account of lack of significant injuries and Josh and Al’s progress.

Jamal added showmanship more than actual results and accelerated Bibby’s decline (which lead also to a worse 4th quarter management and lot of droughts).

I love the guy, seems a stand up character, but he should be getting 20/24 minutes of play time only and carefully managed.

O'Brien

August 30th, 2010
7:11 am

doc,

The 42 points were partly based on Woody’s ISO offense where JJ and Jamal had tons of opportunities.

But LD has said he expects more from Al, and that Marvin didnt know his role, and that Teague will get the opportunity to earn more PT, so I think JJ and Jamal’s 42 ppg will go down with more ball sharing.

Plus LD’s defensive philosophy was “guard your man or else”. One thing Jamal cannot do very well, is guard his man, and if Teague earns his PT, then Jamal’s PT could (and should) decrease.

If the Hawks were a team who was wiliing to go into luxury tax, then I would feel more strongly about keeping Jamal. But given our $ limitations, I think that $10.8 mil could be better utilizied.

drmaryb (*_*)

August 30th, 2010
7:59 am

Swiss Bank Account!

Wink said: ” They will only stash it away with the 3mil, 2.7mil under cap, cap exemption they have, along with other assets they sent overseas; were it not mandatory that they have a 13th player signed that slot would stay vancant as well.”

Do you think the ASG maybe have a Swiss Bank Account to stash their savings?

Astro Joe

August 30th, 2010
9:07 am

doc, in a league where centers are still important and PGs are exponentially growing in import, it feels like a bad distribution of funds to me. We can likely live with it for another season, but I am steadfast against signing a back-up SG for more than $4M in the long-term.

O'Brien

August 30th, 2010
11:21 am

Traditionally, PG has been one of the most important positions in the NBA. And if Teague does not pan out, we will be looking for a PG again next offseason. By then, Bibby should be a backup, or traded. And good PGs dont come cheap.

Another important position is center, and our all star center will be in line for a big pay raise next offseason.

So the Hawks will be mindful of that in whatever decisions they make.

doc

August 30th, 2010
11:22 am

how can you guys argue that they both play the same position when one played 40 mpg and the other played 31 mpg. they both played starter minutes and delivered results worthy of what they are being paid. simple math suggests that. is marvin more important than jamal? can we wait until this experiment is done with with the LD offense before we put all our eggs into that basket unless you deliver me a qualified big man for jamal to share the load and somehow pick up another wing man to boot? he aint no backup anymore than chills was not starter ilk. they were both finishers. i put my money on those type of guys and why manu is close to worth the price san antoine is paying him. dont give away jamal nor even sign him long term if it means sacrificing the only thing and the true saving grace for the askg of what fell into their laps to save them from their ignorance mr al horford. make him an offer just like you did jj so he can refuse it and keep going, then reassess at all star time.

Big Ray

August 30th, 2010
1:14 pm

Here’s the thing: what’s being reported is that Jamal wants an extension. Not a word has been said about how much money he wants. And I think he and his agent are quite well aware of what the new CBA will mean for players….hence the hedging for a contract NOW….

Big Ray

August 30th, 2010
1:26 pm

Doc,

No kidding, it’s the finishers that make a difference. Can’t remember how many times Jamal finished a game instead of either Bibby or Williams. How about 82 times? ;)

At the same time, I don’t want too much dough tied up in SGs either. And, I wonder what the Hawks would be willing to pay Jamal. My guess is they’ll go the route of making him play the year out. Either that or trade him if they think they can get more useable pieces that way, but I’m not seeing how that works out, as I don’t know what we could get. What I don’t see is an extension. Not with Horford on the horizon. And they are NOT going into luxury tax for any reason (say what they will, but Gearon pretty much set the bar at Lebron being a good reason to do so), so….

Astro Joe

August 30th, 2010
1:50 pm

What I find strange is that almost (if not all) of the reports are coming from media outside of Atlanta. Why not use media members with a direct line to Sund? Either the AJC crew or Sekou?

Sorry, but if Sund suddenly decides to start offering contract extensions (which seems to be something he doesn’t do), then Jamal needs to stand in line behind Horford.

doc

August 30th, 2010
3:52 pm

aj he “offered” jj an extension just last year didnt he? why say he doesnt and has anyone really deserved one besides jj and maybe al. jamal at least deserves time at the table is my suggestion, see where folks are, how contentious it might be and then make a decision. i like al but i dont now if he is the caliber say durant, roy or paul were the most recent guys to get extensions before their time was due. i still see al hopefully going up, where those guys showed they were already there. i dont want to hang my hat on a 14/9 center for the max is all i am saying.

practically speaking, it behooves jamal to go now to a team that could pay more by him being a part of their team now and resign him than to wait to be dealt is how they described it in one of the articles i read about it. also jj and sund knew if jj waited he stood to gain from it in terms of what the hawks could offer before and after the season. however, they went through the formality anyway.

drmaryb (*_*)

August 30th, 2010
4:00 pm

Well Fellow Bloggers!

Some more breaking newz: Turner settles sale dispute with David McDavid.
The terms of the 281M settlement are not disclosed, but Turner Broadcasting does not want to drag out this seven year dispute any longer.

McDavid originally sued for 450M.

O'Brien

August 30th, 2010
5:32 pm

More Breaking news. From hoopshype.com by way of hoopsmarket.com;

Finally, the Atlanta Hawks have reached an agreement for the buy-out of Pape Sy with Le Havre, the current club of the 22-year-old French guard.

Sy was selected with the 53rd overall pick in the last NBA draft by the Hawks, after averaging 5.2 points and 1.7 rebounds per game in the last French Pro A league for Le Havre .

If this is true, is he the 13th guy, or the 14th guy?

Melvin

August 30th, 2010
5:32 pm

Rufus1

August 30th, 2010
5:58 pm

Hawks Offseason..I am Happy

Big man depth, new coach, new small forward, new offense and the promise that our young PG will get his chance….I can’t complain.

Astro Joe

August 30th, 2010
7:27 pm

doc, I say that because Sund has been quoted as saying that he likes guys to play on the last year of their deal. Joe was an exception, which is why I used the term “seems” as opposed to making it a definitive statement. Maybe I should have sugested that he “usually doesn’t” offer extensions. The value of Joe and Jamal are not in the same time zone. For that matter, neither is the value of Jamal and Al. Thus, if Sund is going to do something “unusual”, I’d suggest Al gets the special treatment. Did Aldridge get an extension? I think so. Al Jefferson did. There have been plenty of bigs who are not quite of the “superstar” caliber who have received extensions prior to hiting RFA status. There is a level between a max extension and a healthy extension… Al falls in the latter (IMO). The next level down is no extension with the possibility of becoming an RFA (Rudy Gay). And then, there is Josh Smith… allowing him to sign an offer sheet.

Astro Joe

August 30th, 2010
7:35 pm

OB, I assume 13th since we haven’t heard that any other player has actually signed a deal yet (i.e. Etan Thomas). I wonder if the Hawks will go so far as to actually send Sy to the NBDL?

Big Ray

August 30th, 2010
8:04 pm

AJ ,

I’m not sure what’s going on with the media stuff, but I’ve noticed a trend there. What I’ll say is that issue is most likely NOT with the local media at all.

As for Jamal and contract extensions, dang right he gets in line behind Horford.

vava74

August 30th, 2010
8:08 pm

doc, ray,

I don’t understand that obsession about Jamal being a “finisher”.

We had major problems last year finishing games and apart from the game winner against PHO Jamal was not effective in the clutch both as a shooter and as a PG.

Yes, he was a finisher but not a good one.

I know you diced the clutch stats I presented the other day but if you read the fine print where these stats are explained you will easily conclude that Jamal WAS NOT EFFECTIVE IN THE CLUTCH AND NOT A GOOD FINISHER.

Actually Jamal’s best periods and most effective shifts were in the first half when he help break open a lot of games.

His second halves were – at least as I recollect them – far worse.

Our poor 4th quarter record should be enough for you guys to understand that you cannot value a guy because he was a “finisher” when:

a) he was a finisher under a bad 4th quarter head coach;
b) team stats in the 4th speak against him;
c) his own stats speak loudly against him.

Big Ray

August 30th, 2010
8:09 pm

I also like the quick breadown of levels of attention given to players, in regard to contract extensions. Memphis took Rudy Gay from the level of no extension at all to a well paid player, where many pundits and “experts” criticize the size of his contract.

The Hawks did let Josh Smith sign an offer sheet. But then, we have to remember that he was offered an extension by the previous front office puppet…er…regime, and not the current puppet…dang this keyboard…er…regime. ;)

Big Ray

August 30th, 2010
8:23 pm

Vava ,

I don’t understand that obsession about Jamal being a “finisher”.

Okay, I understand that you think Jamal was mostly useless as a clutch player, but if you read Doc’s 11:22 a.m. post, you would see that we are talking about an entirely different subject.

Doc’s argument is that though Jamal is called a backup player, he figured into the gameplan prominently, much like Josh Childress did when he was here. When Doc says “finisher”, he’s talking about a guy who is in the lineup as the game winds down. Most of the time, Jamal was in the lineup at the end of games (unless the score was well in hand), replacing either Marvin or Mike Bibby. So, he was a “finisher”. Nobody is saying he’s Mr. Clutch in this conversation, and your opinion to the contrary is duly noted, I promise you.

As for dicing your stats, there was nothing to dice. I know full well that Joe was the best clutch shooter on the team. I also know that outside of him and perhaps Mike Bibby, Jamal is the only other guy that most people would be okay with handing the ball to for a final shot (most likely an outside shot) at the end of a game, regardless of what 82games.com has to say. Although, Al Horford’s 18-footer is becoming nice, and if he gets to where he hits it as often as Tim Duncan hits that bank shot jumper of his, then that becomes a high quality shot attempt.

Big Ray

August 30th, 2010
8:37 pm

Vava ,

Here’s what I find funny. Rick Sund was quoted as saying that it was Jamal’s 4th quarter stats that convinced him to make the deal to acquire him. As for the man’s own stats speaking loudly against him…well:

a) he was a finisher under a bad 4th quarter head coach;
b) team stats in the 4th speak against him;
c) his own stats speak loudly against him.

I agree to an extent, but….

a) who won 53 games
b) are you going to blame TEAM STATS on this guy, or just individual stats?
c) His own stats include shooting the highest regular season field goal percentage of his career (with the exception of his 2nd year in the league), his best total 3 pt % (again, his second year was best), and winning Sixth Man of the Year.

Or are we only talking 4th quarter stats? Either way, we would not have won 53 games last year without him producing the way he did in the 31 mpg that he played. And that’s what Doc was talking about….

It doesn’t matter how “we guys” value him. What matters is how the Hawks front office and ownership values him.

drmaryb (*_*)

August 30th, 2010
8:46 pm

Not For Sale!

Blu-Ray
(Mega Pixels)

IF the Hawks/Thrasher/Phillip’s Arena Rights were illegally sold to the ASKG?
Then, why can’t the sale be reversed and offered to McDavid now, provided he can still afford to make said purchase. Or, form his own partner ship group now that he is not as strong financially as he was then.

Provided, he would even still be interested in the current market.
Based on what Golden State sold for, the valued price may be even less if appraised now.

I’m just wondering.

Big Ray

August 30th, 2010
8:59 pm

drmaryb ,

I wish I knew the answer to that question. You are probably better off asking Nire , as he might well know the implications and ramifications involved. Of course, I also don’t think he can reveal all that he knows…

Melvin ,

I’ll believe it when the AJC or David Aldridge reports it, LOL. But all I can say is “huh…wow…”, because I really didn’t see it happening. Could be interesting, no?

niremetal

August 30th, 2010
9:29 pm

Drmaryb,

Fortunately, the answer to your question is pretty boring ;) . Courts will not “undo” complicated transactions like that. The remedy for McDavid is collecting damages, not undoing the sale of the team to ASG. Trials arising out of a failed transaction take years to unfold and complete. If courts could go in after the fact and void mergers/acquisitions/sales years after they had been consummated, there would be too much chaos and uncertainty for everyone involved…

kwooden1

August 30th, 2010
9:33 pm

Right now I would rather have Sy than Thomas. I watched Thomas for several years with the Wizards and he’s a good player, but really a C/PF. He never appeared to be much taller than 6′9″ even if he’s actually 6′10″. I don’t see much difference between him and Powell. I like to see if Sy can take Mo’s job backing up Marvin. I like Mo’s work ethic and strength, but he’s stuck in the role of SF on this team and that just isn’t the best position for him. I wouldn’t mind a 2nd unit of:

Crawford
Evans
Sy
Powell
Zaza

But were does that leave Bibby and Teague?

Big Ray

August 30th, 2010
11:04 pm

See? I knew Niremetal would have the answer! :)

Kwooden1 ,

No difference between Powell and Thomas? LOL, I haven’t seen Powell enough to be able to say that, myself. But what I have seen is nothing like Etan Thomas. Powell is more like Leon Powe in a way. Meanwhile Thomas is more like….Brian Grant.

I’ll take another C/PF. As long as he gets the job done.

Big Ray

August 30th, 2010
11:05 pm

I agree with seeing if Sy can take Mo’s job as backup SF, but I don’t know that it will happen that way. He has the height (6′7″). May or may not have the strength, but he does seem to have the length.