Hawks Fans: Jamal Crawford – Pay him or trade him?

Paging Rick Sund. Paging Rick Sund. I hope you’ve enjoyed your vacation, because it might be getting cut just a bit short, what with Jamal Crawford making some noise.

Then again, Sund is not known for being a quick mover in this business. Here’s a question for you right out of the gate, though. Will Sund move with near the swiftness in either paying or dealing Jamal, as he did in acquiring him? Of course, such a question comes with some caveats. One is that we don’t know whether that trade (in which the Hawks sent guards Acie Law and Speedy Claxton to Golden State for Jamal Crawford) just fell into Sund’s lap, or if it was something both the Warriors and the Hawks were planning for some time, or what. Does it really matter? As it stands, Sund is not known for hurrying to make any move (see Josh Smith, Josh Childress, etc), outside of the quick and attractive offer made to Joe Johnson shortly after the free agency period began. Where does Jamal and his demands stand?

So Jamal would rather be somewhere else playing than in Atlanta, if he can’t get an extension he finds to his liking? Isn’t this the same guy who signed a clause in his contract with Atlanta, stating that he would not opt out of the final year of his contract (that would be THIS year), in the trade that brought him here? Do you think he’s being selfish, or is he doing the smart thing from a business standpoint? Is this related to the looming Collective Bargaining Agreement, or is it personal? While you think about that, let’s look at the two options Jamal has put on the table, and what either of them could mean for the team.

 

PAY HIM !

Do you even have to think about it? Jamal is the reigning Sixth Man of they Year. He averaged roughly 18 points per game, which is no mean feat in the NBA. He was the second option on offense. Not only that, but aside from Joe Johnson, who else on this team is  a bonafide scorer/shooter at that level? I’m not talking about just being able to score in the teens. I’m talking about being able to lead a team in scoring. Being able to put up 20 or 30 points on any given night. Being able to take an opponent off the dribble. Being able to create your own shot anywhere inside the half court line. Who else on this team (again, aside from Joe) can do his own thing, and still score 18-20 or more, even on a bad shooting night (i.e. 7 for 21)? Josh Smith? Al Horford? That is the closest you’re going to get, and neither of those guys can get to the line enough to make up for bad shooting or a stifling defense. Not yet, anyway.

What happens if Joe Johnson incurs a serious injury? Who then can step up on offense? Mike Bibby? Sure, he has the range and the stroke, but is he still capable of getting those kinds of points for a couple of games? How about five to ten games? Twenty? Can Marvin Williams do it? Do I really have to ask? Lose Jamal, and you put some pressure back on Joe Johnson and the others. Lose Jamal, and you lose some things. You lose a guy who will take and make a long 3-pointer as the buzzer sounds, without flinching. You lose a guy who can excite the crowd. You lose a guy who can energize the team off the bench. Unless of course you think there are others on the bench who can come in and be that potent a threat. Can Mo Evans do that? Without Jamal, is the bench more than a bunch of also-rans?

 

TRADE HIM!

Pay him more money, are you crazy? We just signed Bibby to a contract before last season, that pays him roughly $6 million per year, and what was the reward? We got to watch his game decline as the year wore on. The same thing could happen with Jamal to some extent, as he is not going to get better as time goes on, not at the age of 29 or 30. Besides, we have two major things going for us – One is Larry Drew’s phenomenal offensive approach, which will not be based on isolation plays. Two, we have Jordan Crawford, who is a talent in his own right. And we don’t want him to rot away on the bench all season the way Teague nearly did last season, do we?

Look how stacked we are at the shooting guard position. There is Joe Johnson, Jamal Crawford, Mo Evans, and Jordan Crawford. Is this good team balance? How do you divide those minutes up without moving Joe and Jamal to other positions (small forward and point guard, respectively)? Is that efficient use of the team, or will it create matchup problems the Hawks don’t want to find themselves in? Also, doesn’t this team need a guy more suited to backup small forward? How about a third point guard in case Teague doesn’t pan out so well, or struggles all season? What about a better big man that the bench currently boasts? Couldn’t moving Jamal address one or more of those positions? Besides, the development of Teague and Jordan Crawford is pivotal for future considerations.

Back to Drew’s offense. If the idea is to move the ball around more and make more potent and efficient scorers out of the entire lineup, then will Jamal’s scoring prowess be needed at the level it was last season? Would he get the kind of shots and stats that made him Sixth Man of the Year last season? If not, does that diminish his value to the team? This team has one guy who can go into isolation mode if necessary, and will have to learn not to do so on a regular basis. Why keep a second one who might have the exact same issues?

 

So which route do you think the Hawks should go? Pay Jamal, or trade him….and why? Also, if he’s extended, how much should he be paid? The Hawks might want to be careful here, as an extension must also be reached with Al Horford, if the they don’t want to play the “watch, then match” game next summer, the way they did with Josh Smith. It’s rarely wise to do that with an All-Star player, particularly a young and promising one. Also, what ramifications might this have on the payroll? The Hawks want no part of the luxury tax, Pape Sy may not come over this year (if that buyout doesn’t work out), and the 13th roster spot has to be filled at some point.

201 comments Add your comment

[...] Hawks Fans: Jamal Crawford ? Pay him or trade him?Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog)He averaged roughly 18 points per game, which is no mean feat in the NBA. He was the second option on offense. Not only that, but aside from Joe Johnson, …and more » [...]

NikkiFree

August 28th, 2010
3:02 pm

ASG really mucked things up when they signed JJ to that absolutely ridiculous contract. I refuse to go to any games or cheer for the Hawks again until there are new owners or JJ is gone — whatever comes first. Of course, I’m just one person so I won’t matter.
I like Jamal Crawford. Unfortunately, with ASG spending so much money on JJ it has cost them resigning Crawford. Good luck wherever you go, Jamal. Atlanta will continue to be fair to middling for years to come thanks to poor ownership/GM decision-making.

STRETCH

August 28th, 2010
3:11 pm

TRADE…its a no brainer! Got too many SG’s.

Steve

August 28th, 2010
3:11 pm

Trade him and get some value.

STRETCH

August 28th, 2010
3:24 pm

Wow Steve…looks like U and I are the only ones who gives a damn i guess? LOL!

Josh Kinsey

August 28th, 2010
3:30 pm

Follow me on twitter @jkinsey60 for all things hawks!! plus all GA Sports!! I have already posted a trade on my twitter account for the hawks to get rid of Jamal!!

BrittishAnger

August 28th, 2010
3:33 pm

Who else would want him and what would we get in return? Until those answers outweigh “The Difference” he’s brought us, I say lets at least start talks about a possible extension. I honestly think ASG would prefer to deal with both Jamal and Al next off-season when all the one-year back-ups can get waived and when they can get a decent skew of how much one player will deserve over the other. I also believe Jamal shouldn’t join this march of conjoined-trade-fetus garbage along with ‘Melo and Chris…Even for the ugliness of our season long failings with Orlando, nothing occurred that tells me Jamal’s current state is warranted or even validated…Sure, Hawks fans haven’t had much to discuss this offseason, but I’d swear on three copies of Maniac Magee I wasn’t looking for this….

antoinette

August 28th, 2010
3:35 pm

Trade em, why get paid way less when u have to do way more 2 capture a win.and joe doesn’t wanna win,

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Brazil Boy

August 28th, 2010
4:03 pm

Trade em to the Suns for Childress and Lawal!

MaxxHawk

August 28th, 2010
4:10 pm

MC- Say we were to trade Jamal, what do you think are the most likely trade scenarios, meaning who do you think are the most likely players we would acquire for him?

000

August 28th, 2010
4:19 pm

trade him and lets get Greg Oden and frutty Fernandez

NCBravesFan

August 28th, 2010
4:57 pm

I’d trade him for a few reasons, most notably:

1. I doubt the Hawks will be willing to pay Jamal and Al Horford. Al is more important to the team long-term.

2. He’s not getting any younger, and we have younger replacements.

3. He’s not a good defender.

FWIW

Jay B.

August 28th, 2010
4:59 pm

Since patience is a virtue, GM Sund should be patient, see how Jordan Crawford looks in the new offense, and then just before the trade deadline send Jamal and Maurice Evans to Sacramento for the expiring contracts of C Samuel Dalembert and SF Antoine Wright.

Dalembert brings shot-blocking, defense and rebounding while Wright is a bigger defender at SF than Evans. And, if they don’t work out, use them next off season in a sign-and-trade, say to Dallas for Tyson Chandler.

Thoughts?

Basketball Knowledge

August 28th, 2010
5:01 pm

You guys don’t know NOTHING about basketball. It kills me to hear you fools talk about trading Crawford. He is a bona fide star in the NBA. He is BETTER than Joe Johnson, especially considering the money angle. If Sund doesn’t move quickly and looses Crawford, he should be kicked out of the league. It is my opinion his management style sucks anyway.

drmaryb (*_*)

August 28th, 2010
5:26 pm

Blu-Ray
(DP 1050)

Jamal also made more career 4 point plays than Reggie Miller last year as a Hawk! For the first time in his career, Jamal can become an UFA and choose his own team. And, he chose the Hawks!

What else does the “A” want, if not to sign and pay players that actually want to play here?

Word on the street is Sund is not worried about Jamal’s trade demand and will offer him an extension next week that they are sure he will sign.

atlienforlife

August 28th, 2010
5:29 pm

First of all, I’m not the biggest joe johnson fans, but there is no way that crawford is BETTER then him. Jamal is an awful defensive player and very limited passer. He is a hired gun, and in woodsons iso offense, he looked good.

atlienforlife

August 28th, 2010
5:33 pm

I say call denver, and see if they are willing to take Jamal, Marvin, and either teague or Jordan, for Melo.

Bibby, Teague or Jordan
Joe Johnson,
Carmelo, Evans
Josh, Josh Powell

Nice Squad!!!
Horford, Zaza

c. wheeler

August 28th, 2010
5:40 pm

Enter your comments here

Remarkable

August 28th, 2010
6:05 pm

Why do either? Keep him, make him play out his contract, then use the cap room next year to sign Al or better a true center. Al Horford is a great guy. I like him a lot, but he is not a center, he is a powerforward. One of the three Smith, Williams, Horford) has to go to make room for a true center. Jamal gave his word he would play out his contract. Make him keep it. Why do we let athletes renig on their contracts?
I’d like to keep Jamal for two or three more years, but not at the price I think he wants. The pay scale has to go DOWN from here on in, not up.

drmaryb (*_*)

August 28th, 2010
6:51 pm

Remarkable

Jamal does not have to stay here after next year on our terms.
He will be a UFA. If we want him we will have to pay markeþ value or he walks.

It will be his last contract and he better look out for himself!
Bump these Hawks!

O'Brien

August 28th, 2010
7:34 pm

Ray,

I think the hawks plan is to let jamal play out his contract. That gives Jordan 1 year of development, and then when Jamal walks next offseason, they would use it to give horford his raise.

If I am rick, I would try and trade Jamal for an expiring big (like pryzbilla, Chandler, dalembert). The problem is I don’t know who is available, and That’s why I Think Jamal should have been traded already.

We resigned jj, drafted Jordan, and Evans said he was staying. Between Evans and Jordan, I think they would have done a decent job filling the backup SG spot. Then we could have signed Carney, wilkens, etc as the backup SF.

dstdeelite

August 28th, 2010
8:30 pm

I’m sorry but when did Mo Evans become a servicable replacement for anybody? I watched 82 games last year and I missed that. I love JC but for the right price. Same with JJ…I wanted to keep him but at the right price. We see how that went.

niremetal

August 28th, 2010
9:20 pm

Astro,

In response to your last post directed against me: First, I was calling the person who posted at 9:53 am a coward, because he hid behind a made-up handle when insulting me. If that was you, then yes – you are a coward. If not, then you’re just a lying jackass.

And you are a lying jackass. You set up a straw man with me on that last thread, for the billionth time. But since you are either too dumb or too dishonest to acknowledge that was what you are doing, I’m using the more blunt, less precise term – lying. You made it sound like I said something that I didn’t. That makes you a lying jackass. Same as you always have been.

Stop being a lying jackass, and I’ll stop being a blunt jackass. But until then, why the hell should I be civil with someone who has absolutely no problem with twisting my words, and keeps on doing it no matter what I say to him?

Bluestreak

August 28th, 2010
9:37 pm

Jamal is not a Bona Fide Star in the NBA. He had a great year last year, but this guy is on his 6th or 7th team. Bona Fide starts don’t get traded around like that. So we should get held up by a guy who doesn’t want to live up to his contract? I think not. Either make him play through his contract (which really isn’t the best idea, since a malcontent on the team is not good) or trade him high and get the most you can.

niremetal

August 28th, 2010
9:39 pm

And the Hawks should trade Jamal. But the idea O’Brien floated on the last thread – trade him for an expiring big – won’t take, unless there’s a team that has an expendable expiring big with a greater need at the wing (I don’t see any). Because why would a team with an expiring big man trade that expiring big man for Jamal? It wouldn’t save them any money, since both guys will be expiring at the same time. The reason expiring contracts are valuable is not because they can be flipped for other expiring contracts; it’s because they can be flipped to a team looking to unload a player with a long-term contract (in which case, acquiring the expiring deal would make money).

My hope is that the Hawks will make a trade using Jamal’s contract not unlike the ones they used to get Bibby and Jamal in the first place – acquire a good, but probably slightly overpriced player on a longer-term deal with a team that’s either looking to rebuild or has a glut of players at a position of need. Potential targets include Marcus Camby (assuming the Blazers trade Rudy, they’ll need a wing to come off the bench, and they’ll still have Oden/Prz/Aldridge), Iguodala (the rumor mill is building that the Sixers are ready to fold the tent), Devin Harris (loooooong shot, since I don’t think the Nets need the cap space), or Nene (he has a big player option coming up next summer that the Nuggets will likely want to avoid).

Ironically, for all the talk about Billups and Melo, I think Nene is our most likely target on Denver. Other teams can and will offer way more attractive packages for Melo than we can, and since Billups’ deal is not guaranteed past this year anyway, the Nuggets have no incentive to flip him for an expiring deal and won’t be looking to take on long-term contracts if they’re blowing the team up. Nene, on the other hand, is basically in the same place this year as Jamal was when we acquired him – he has a pricey player option that he’s likely to exercise and that most teams won’t want to pay (because let’s face it, Nene ain’t worth $11.5M/yr anymore), so he might not draw that much interest if the Nugs decide to nuke the roster.

niremetal

August 28th, 2010
9:40 pm

* (in which case, acquiring the expiring deal would save money).

niremetal

August 28th, 2010
9:41 pm

* a glut of players at a position where the Hawks have a need

hawksfan23

August 28th, 2010
10:10 pm

i know it is better to trade him than have an unruly player but he is a scorer that makes his own play which we dont have besides johnson, but i would like to get 10 mil off the books my thought is that asg is saving there big moves for next off season but if we could do something now why not? say a trade involving the nuggets sending jamal, marvin, and somebody else for anthony! that would make us contenders and cap releif . i know its hard to believe but i still think asg are saving up for something big but why not make a big move right now to make us a contender instead of trusting in your core?

O'Brien

August 28th, 2010
11:04 pm

Nire,

I like Marcus camby too. But I don’t think Portland will trade him because he is fairly healthy. I think they are more likely to trade pryzbilla because he has injury history, and they already have oden with his injury issues.

Would Portland do pryzbilla and Fernandez for Jamal?

the Guru

August 28th, 2010
11:05 pm

The hawks should make a blockbuster trade get a bonifide bigman for Jamal. He is a huge piece But he has a lot of value and his contract is expiring and we ain’t gonna pay him so make the trade for NeNe . Mr. Sund

Astro Joe

August 28th, 2010
11:07 pm

They should have traded for Dalembert after Cousins showed his stuff in the summer league. And shortly thereafter, there was a report that Sactown wanted to find a shooter off the bench. But sameness (and inertia) reigns.

nire, whatever man. Your insistence that someone is distorting your opinion, twisting your words and assaulting your honor is growing as old as the corn on the bottom of my foot.

O'Brien

August 28th, 2010
11:12 pm

I think it was Najeh who first proposed it, but I think it works for both teams. When Brandon Roy misses games, Jamal would fill in nicely anew they would get rid of Rudy. And we would get a serviceable big and SG.

You suggested the hawks trade for a longer term player, but I don’t think that will work. Next season mo comes off the books, but horford will probably get a raise to more than $13 mil. And the hawks do NOT want to go into luxury tax. That’s why I think they need an expiring contract for Jamal.

Dr, Dee

August 28th, 2010
11:24 pm

Give Jamal a contract and trade Joe / Bibby for Chandler / C. Butler / Domonique Jones. The results; the Defence will improve, the scoring will remain the same, and their will be 25 million in salary reduction for next year.

niremetal

August 28th, 2010
11:45 pm

Melvin

August 29th, 2010
12:17 am

Will the Hawks consider trading Jamal for a big if they sign Ethan Thomas…

D.S.G.B.

August 29th, 2010
12:22 am

trade jamal and marvin for melo. i think that is a good trade the salaries are pretty even and well actually have more salary room.

doc

August 29th, 2010
1:20 am

astro, knowing you are no coward watching you for six years now i will point out that though you are now in favor of trading jamal you were never in favor of him being here. if he hadnt been here last year we would not have won the 53 games you have held so dearly too and enjoyed so much last year even in the face of the many flaws that we pointed out to you and the others on the train of over enthusiasm last year and te 53 wins you gave cred to woody on and talked about incessantly this summer. if that benchmark werent there and jamal gone you would lose a great big part of your steam you have been building on this summer to point out how woody should not have been fired and will remind us of if ld falls short, no? can you stand to see all your puff of the summer go up in smoke if jamal is traded?

dont like melo’s game but could stand it if we traded marvin and bibby for him and maybe one of their lesser bigs in a heart beat even if it was for only one year. then i would look to the choices we would have to convert jamal into a longer term arrangement for a point guard and or big.

i_am_soulstar

August 29th, 2010
1:55 am

Package Jamal Crawford, Marvin WIlliams, Bibby, and a 1st round pick
& trade for
Carmelo Anthony (extend and trade) and JR Smith

It works on ESPN trade machine..

And Denver would go for it because they have are going to have headache finding someone to take JR Smith. So you have to believe that the most eligible suitors for the Melo trade are those will take JR as well.

We not only get a starting lineup of

PG Jeff Teague
SG Jos Johnson
SF Carmelo Anthony
PF Josh Smith
C Al Horford

but we also get rid of all of our bad contracts. Denver gets Smith out of there, gets a young SF with lots of potential in Marvin, and the reigning 6th man of the year. Everybody wins!

truthspitter

August 29th, 2010
2:40 am

Trade him and it should not even be a lengthy discussion

MaxxHawk

August 29th, 2010
3:32 am

I meant Big Ray! My fault!

MaxxHawk

August 29th, 2010
3:33 am

But seriously, Jordan Crawford is a Jamal clone who can Defend better. If we could get a bonafide 7fter for him we should def trade him, no question

vava74

August 29th, 2010
4:26 am

Ray:

“You lose a guy who will take and make a long 3-pointer as the buzzer sounds, without flinching.”

You forgot to add a very important conclusion: “and miss in the clutch”

http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM

Look at his clutch stats… and you guys that say that he is better than JJ, compare them with JJ’s…

vava74

August 29th, 2010
4:28 am

My take:

nothing wrong with Jamal’s demands. It’s a business decision for him in light of the impending CBA.

nothing wrong if we decide to trade him and it would not have been wrong at all if we had tried to trade him before he diminished his value with the trade demand…

wordsmithtom

August 29th, 2010
6:39 am

Jamal wouldn’t play defence. He needs the ball…hardlly in keeping with LD’s intended offence. I think he’s doing us a favor asking for a trade now….while he still has value, ship him for a piece, one with an expiring contract. But, no hurry. If they get a Thomas thug in FA, then a 3 will do, as JC3 and Mo give us adaquate backup at 2. If no inforcer for bench, then a trade for a 1 makes sense. As long as it’s an expiring contract to help with next year’s signing of Al. Al’s the future; not Jamal.

kwooden1

August 29th, 2010
8:31 am

We have a problem with the number of shooting guards, but I don’t think we can solve anything right now with the situation. We can look for a decent big with Jamals contract, but the HAWKS have a problem with money. They’re clearly going to have to pay Horford next year. What I think the ASG is going to do is let JC play out his contract and let him go to pay Horford. If we have a great season then they might consider paying him, but that is the only way. I’m not certain there is a better plan than that because the HAWKS will have to pay somebody if they don’t pay JC. I wouldn’t mind trading him for Camby, but he’s been Portland’s only reliable Center so I doubt they would go for it.

Tha Real Hawk

August 29th, 2010
9:27 am

I am always amazed when supposed fans call for trades when a player asks for more money. Usually it can be after the player did nothing special. That is not the case with Jamal. Winner of 6th Man Award. Leading scorer in the playoffs. Winner of more games through last minute shots.
It’s just jealousy on the part of the fans and being cheap by the Hawks.
The management has shown all summer that they will not pay to improve this team and still the lemmings say “trade him.”
This is why we have the team we have: bad management and kool aid drinking fans.

O'Brien

August 29th, 2010
9:36 am

Nire,

I don’t think Portland can do any better. In the last 5 seasons, pryzbilla played more than 77 games twice, and in that same time, he missed over 100 games, including 50 last year.

Roy missed 17 games last year (and IMO, he came back too early, but he wanted to help in the playoffs). In 06-07, roy missed 25 games. With Jamal on board, they have the reigning SMOY who could fill in for Roy.

Plus they lost some ball handling when they got rid of Steve Blake, and nate’s offense from what I have read utilizes the ISOs as well, so Jamal would fit right in. And they would get rid of Fernandez.

Maybe we can throw in a second round pick too.

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2010
9:38 am

doc, absolutely. He helped me enjoy last season’s first 84 games, without a doubt. But you may recall that I was never too thrilled with a $10M “Flip Murray” on a team with a middling payroll. Once Joe signed, I thought that trading a SMOY with an expiring contract would be the smartest thing possible. Between Joe, Mo and JC2, I think we can cover the 48 minutes at SG with little problem.

I only mentioned Etan Thomas a few dozen times in the past 6 months, so I am happy to hear that he may be added to the roster. Obviously, he’s no savior, but I always liked his work ethic and this team is in desparate need (still) of tough, blue-collar, won’t-back-down players. If nothing else, Powell and Etan will bring a little brute to the team.

Astro Joe

August 29th, 2010
9:39 am

Co-sign vava at 4:28 (which is too dang early for me).