Hawks Fans: This week in the news…

Alright fellow Hawks fans, sorry for not checking in for a little while. Lots of around the house stuff (and work stuff) going on, as I’m sure many of you can relate to. Nice to see the diehard guys still chopping it up (and each other) around here. Late summer slumming stinks, and you can really tell when some of the latest topics include suspicious asthma diagnosis and steroid treatment thereof. Not to mention, it can be tough hanging on when our Atlanta Falcons are getting heated up. Speaking of which, if you really dig Falcons football, the AJC’s D. Orlando Ledbetter keeps you up to date on those “other birds.” Meanwhile the super slammin’, most happenin’ Falcons fan blog ever is hosted by the awesome Dawson Devitt (also known as D3). Trust me, this guy keeps it going 24/7.

Anyhow, back to basketball…

 

The two Crawfords

Two different guys with two different situations, but both could be key points of interest by the all-star break.

Jamal Crawford wants to stick around Atlanta, and probably wouldn’t mind retiring a Hawk. Will he get the extension he wants from Atlanta, and at what price? While this “story” has gone somewhat cold and quiet, it hasn’t gone away completely. Will this become an item of interest and discussion as the season wears on? Hard to tell. My guess is that Jamal is not in a very real hurry, but then again, the CBA is coming up soon, so maybe he is. What could he expect to get paid, and what might his services be worth? After signing Mike Bibby to a 3-year deal worth about $6 million per year (and then watching his game go south quickly), the Hawks are liable to not be in a big hurry to re-sign another guard wh could be on the cusp of the decline of his game. Still, it’s hard to even think of that when Jamal just got Sixth Man of the Year just last season. What do you think? Keep Jamal, and at what price (and for how long)? Will the Hawks look at this hard at any point in time during this season, or let things play out next summer?

Then there is Jordan Crawford. The rookie guard seemed to mesh well with 2nd year point guard Jeff Teague in the summer league. He also seemed more at ease on the floor than Teague did. Training camp with the real pros will be a different story, however. There is no doubt that Crawford can score and shoot, although his court vision and passing was a pleasant surprise. So what happens when he has to face the original Crawford, or a minutes-hungry Mo Evans, who is liable to show up to camp with a chip on his shoulder about playing time? It’s hard to see Jordan getting many minutes this season in a backcourt that features Joe, Jamal, Bibby, Teague, and Evans. Well, barring injury to backcourt members, that is. This, after a college career that ended with him having to do nearly everything on offense by himself, in order for his team to have a chance at winning. Will Crawford be able to take the mental rigors of denied playing time? Or, will he have attitude issues, as the much-maligned former Hawks Salim Stoudamire seemed to? The fact is, Jordan is in a good position to learn, what with that talented and experienced bunch of veteran backcourt teammates. The question is, what will he learn, and how quickly. Is it possible for Crawford to earn some serious minutes here and there? How would he best accomplish this?

 

The Man with the Master Plan

Not that we haven’t hashed this one to death already, but what of Larry Drew’s offense? Motion, motion, motion is what I keep hearing, and if nothing else, these guys will be in some kind of shape when camp is over. If I were Jason Collins, I’d get on the treadmill now. Fortunately for the Hawks, there is enough versatility and talent for “the plan.” Of course, among the list of changes, one does have to scratch one’s head about this whole business of Josh Smith occasionally moving over to the small forward spot. So, uh…are we going to see more or less of those ill-fated 20-foot jumpers from Smoove? C’mon Larry, what’s the real plan? Don’t scare us like that! Or did we pick up somebody who can “fix” Josh’s jumper? Evidently, Mark Price wasn’t up to the job…

I know this much – everything’s cool as long as Larry Drew doesn’t bust out with “Come on guys, this [expletive] works…you just have to buy into it!” If he does, hang it all up….

 

Crazy Trade Nonsense

If you haven’t heard already, it seems that Denver will lose Carmelo to….who knows where. Could there be another “big 3″ theme brewing here, as Chris Paul likely still wants out of New Orleans, and Amare Stoudamire will likely soon find out how un-fun it is to be a Knick these days? Oh, who cares. Let’s talk about REAL possibilities. You know, like how the Hawks can lure/acquire the Denver star small forward. Oh come on, I’m sure somebody can come up with a completely unrealistic trade idea, right? Why not, we still have way too long before training camp!

193 comments Add your comment

RaJaH

August 16th, 2010
11:53 pm

I think Denver will ask for Josh or Al to start any talks for Melo.

Big Ray

August 16th, 2010
11:58 pm

RaJaH,

That would be my guess as well.

BrittishAnger

August 17th, 2010
1:01 am

The amount of motion we’re pondering, and given a few minor glances in Summer League, if you’re playing Josh at SF, he’s going to be on the back end of a couple of passes with Horford setting him a screen and using it to take off and jam along the baseline (or so we would optimistically hope). Honestly I’m more tempted at the possibilities of Smith at C, just because it locks him into the post for the most part, and he might end up using the Free Throw line to improve the midrange as a result (again, so we would optimistically hope)….

BrittishAnger

August 17th, 2010
1:01 am

Ponder the blocks per game, Pinky…the BPG….

Tdub

August 17th, 2010
3:01 am

Marvin, jamal crawford and 2 1st round picks for melo. Atl would have its star and number 1 option to complement jj who needs help, no more doubling jj during crunch time. The highlight factory would sell out every night, put money in the owners pocket. Our new big 4 of jj, melo, josh, and al would be hard 2 handle. Take that miami! Ps give rasheed a call, he might listen. Hawk fans do not get mad because i put jamal crawford in the trade. You have 2 give up value 2 receive value, his 10 million expiring contract is a must have 4 most teams. Make this happen atl spirit!

vava74

August 17th, 2010
4:20 am

‘Melo would not be happy coming here and you can sense that he and Paul have planned to joint forces like the Miami Stooges.

My guess ia that they will let their deals expire so, even if we do get him to come he would not re-sign.

I’m not partial to short term rentals.

wordsmithtom

August 17th, 2010
8:42 am

“Marvin, JC and 2 1’st round picks for melo.” Why not just offer JJ even up, that’s what we gave for him, near about.

Unless there’s a guaranteed contract, a Melo rental picks our pockets. Could be a 1 year chance to get past round 2, but no guarantee of that, and if he walked, we’d be set back for a long time.

I like Melo….but at what price? Be careful what you wish for…you could get that wish.

Veteran Observer

August 17th, 2010
9:03 am

Marvin, Bibby, and Josh for Carmelo and a big man! Al moved to 4 and Melo at 3 and we are home free! Or please look at Kwame Brown or another big. Maybe Josh straight up for Melo and Marvin and Bibby to Memphis for Thabeet or Marc Gasol! Must fix center spot and move Al to 4. Josh is the problem with his limitations and attitude! the motion offense will work for the first 5 minutes of each half until Josh chooses to stand around and JJ quits moving then same old Hawks with a rookie coach that no one will listen to! Hopefully Melo is not a THUG and will do a sign and trade for the three years! New Orleans might even listen to a Jamal Crawford and a #1 for Chris Paul. Line up pg Paul, sg JJ, sf Melo, pf Al, c any big body rebounder! Reserves Jordan, Teague, Evans, Collins, Zaza. A lot of firepower and good defense with significant playing time for Teague and Crawford to develop!

Melvin

August 17th, 2010
9:55 am

I can’t see Denver wanting Josh when they have Keyon. I like Tdub suggestion. Marvin, Jamal Crawford and mutilple 1st rounders. Not sure if the money match up but that’s a deal I would do…

O'Brien

August 17th, 2010
9:56 am

I would not trade for Carmelo, because he could bolt at the end of the season. And then we would be forced to try and work out a sign and trade. And even if he wanted to stay, can the ASG afford 2 max contracts?

As for Jamal, I can see him getting a 3 year deal in the $7 mil range. And although I like his game, I think the ASG’s plan is to let his contract expire, since Al is due for a big raise. I would prefer trading him for bench depth.

I think JC2 will do a decent job off the bench in year 2, and by year 3, he will be our gunner off the bench.

O'Brien

August 17th, 2010
10:00 am

Melvin,

Isn’t Kenyon an expiring contract though? Plus he’s injury prone. And would they want Jamal when they have JR Smith?

I think they would want Marvin, Josh and multiple first rounders. And that still might not be enough, because Hawks picks will be late first round.

i_am_soulstar

August 17th, 2010
10:16 am

Can you do sign-and-trades with extensions? That’s the only way I would do it.

I say Denver has less bargaining power if it’s clear that Melo’s not signing an extension.

Marvin Williams, Jamal Crawford, and a 1st round pick for Carmelo Anthony.

Dr, Dee

August 17th, 2010
10:16 am

The only trade that works for the hawks is Joe J./Bibby for Carron Butler/Tyson Chandler/Domonic Jones. If the Ownership is wise, Carmelo and Chris Paul will come knocking at our door next year.
Never break-up the energy between Josh S. and Al H.

Chandler/Butler/Crawford can be resigned for resonable prices next year if they think Carmelo is on board. Carmelo would be crazy not to join forces with Josh/Al/Chandler/Crawford/Butler. Sund would be under the cap, because approximately 35 million will drop off the books. Hartford and Carmelo can be signed.

Forget Joe in the motion offence. Fans want to see a deep balanced team go for the Championship. Tell the Truth.

i_am_soulstar

August 17th, 2010
10:17 am

Even better….

Marvin Williams, Bibby, Mo Evans, and a 1st round pick for Carmelo Anthony.

i_am_soulstar

August 17th, 2010
10:25 am

Live or die with Teague at the point.

PG Teague
SG JJ
SF Carmelo
PF Smoove
C Horford

Reserves
Jamal Crawford
Jordan Crawford
Zaza
Josh Powell

That’s a championship caliber squad right there. I’d take those guys over Miami. I would, I would!!!!!
But it probably won’t happen, because the ASG own the Hawks.
:(

dstdeelite

August 17th, 2010
10:29 am

Totally off the subject: Has anyone ever witnessed Joe, or anybody in our backcourt, set a screen?

I won’t even let myself condsider the possibility of landing Melo. Two words: Not happening!!

The Real JC

August 17th, 2010
10:30 am

I think I might cry if Melo came to the ATL. Trade Marvin and ANYONE ELSE THEY WANT for Melo. We have a contingency plan if any one player and Marvin leave, as long as we have an All-Star at the 3.

Melvin

August 17th, 2010
10:34 am

And some folks complain about the trade suggestions that get thrown around on this blog. Look at this garbage a sportswriter for yahoo dreamed up….

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-Pacers-and-76ers-should-make-a-deal;_ylt=AqM5wQX6c753FGaD8sm.paK8vLYF?urn=nba-262631

The Real JC

August 17th, 2010
10:40 am

@deelite – I’m inclined to agree. There are two likely options – if the “experiment” in South Beach goes well, Melo will tag-team with CP3 and go to NY; if it fails, he’ll stay in Denver.

I think I covet Melo more than any of the other guys in his draft class because of his post skills. He’s a dude that can create mismatches inside, draw in the defense, and kick it out to one of the 25 Hawks players who can consistently hit an open 3. Yeah, it’ll never happen, but a guy can dream.

doc

August 17th, 2010
10:49 am

well nire. i am pissed but i see the irony of it, dont know if you will. the team that you admire greatly has just added the piece i suggested from the day after the season ended for us to get to balance our roster a bit even if it meant giving up josh smith who you have oft ridiculed. true especially when i touted the possible long term outcome of the relationship between al and josh. you also trashed the idea if i remember from the get go of al jefferson suggesting there was nothing to offer. funny, the team that got him was one that you admire tremendously, the jazz. though i cant find the details it wasnt for the price of a josh either. i said the minny would want to get rid of him early on. again it so ironic, it is nauseating.

i also suggested to pursue farmar as an adjunct and protection at the position that is next weakest as well at point and he went to the nets for a song. only our owners packed it in when miami pulled their coup. sorry, i just dont get it and keep my hands in my pocket to protect my money as they refuse to really go to be in the elite class. can anyone argue with four guys like al j, al h, zaza and josh s as a force? throw in shaq? could anyone not salivate at having a guy like farmar ready to pick up the pieces if jeff teague or “rook vs. jt0″ falls flat? you dont thing there would be a hum like never before heard in the annals of hawks basketball since the days of bob petit when i started this journey as a fan in 1957?

oh woe is me. well at least i can follow my other three favs in the jazz, suns and blazers to see if they can steal it from the big boys miami, boston or the lakers as our owners dont have the balls to do it.

Melvin

August 17th, 2010
11:17 am

Doc,

I think the Jazz use their trade exception from the Bulls to get Al Jefferson. Therefore, minny didnt have to take back much or any salary. However, I’m too lazy to look up the actual trade scenario.

But what’s funny to me is that we hear alot of talk about the Hawks core players (and/or roster). The same core players that’s not good enough to win a second round playoff game but has great upside for the future but not good enough to create a package to trade for a superstar quality player in return but good enough for the Hawks to spend dang near luxury tax money on to keep assemble. Are the Hawks in a Bermuda triangle or what???

i_am_soulstar

August 17th, 2010
11:20 am

With all the talk about offensive schemes, the Hawks were 3rd in Offensive Efficiency last year behind only Phoenix and Orlando.

Why all the focus on offense? If Drew’s schemes take us from #3 in Offense to #1 then I’m all for it, but defense still wins championships.

We were 14th in Defensive Efficiency though. You can pour it in as much as you want in the regular season and get 60 wins. But if you can’t stop the other team in the playoffs, it’s not gonna matter a bit.

http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/order/true

Big Ray

August 17th, 2010
11:26 am

wordsmithtom ,

I hear you, but I think anybody wishing for that might want to relocate to NY…

Big Ray

August 17th, 2010
11:30 am

Tdub ,

I don’t know if Denver does that deal. Jamal is a baller, as we know. But they already have a younger streaky/explosive player in JR Smith. But hey, while we’re wishing, that certainly ain’t a bad wish.

BrittishAnger ,

You’ve got MY attention with that one!

Big Ray

August 17th, 2010
11:34 am

The Real JC ,

I agree, ‘Melo is the shizzle fa rizzle. But you’d be willing to give up Marvin and anybody else ? That include our all-star center or our “about to be an all-star” runner up DPOY power forward? I don’t think they’d want Joe. Huge contract and no glowing playoff history.

Big Ray

August 17th, 2010
11:38 am

I am soulstar ,

True on our offensive efficiency, but that was also during the regular season. What was our efficiency in the playoffs? Something tells me it was fairly low.

However, you’re also right about the defense. One does feed off of the other, though. I think our struggles with Orlando weren’t just about defensive matchups (which were/are difficult for us when it comes to that squad) and the ineffectiveness of the switch defense. It was also about the fact that we never made them defend US. If they had to work harder on defense, they would not have been so fresh legged and free on offense.

How do you see us improving our defense?

i_am_soulstar

August 17th, 2010
11:53 am

Veteran Observer,

I still like Josh at PF more than I do Al. He is the most efficient player on the Atlanta Hawks. Al’s great and that high FG% of his brings a tear to my eye everytime I see regular season replays, but if I had to pick one, it’d be Josh. If the Hawks are middle of the pack in defensive efficiency now #14, pull Josh Smith out and watch us fall to the basement. It wouldn’t be pretty.

What Horford does on defense is above average as well, but it’s certainly more easily replaced than what Josh brings to the table.

PERSECUTABLE STATEMENT OF THE DAY:

Josh Smith is Lebron James without the scoring prowess.

mountain_jim

August 17th, 2010
11:56 am

It will be ironic if we finally have a great offense but the defense gets enough worse (dueto lack of focuse on that as much as previous regime lacked focuse on O) to more than cancel out the O improvment from the new coach and schemes.

i_am_soulstar

August 17th, 2010
12:18 pm

Ray,

You are absolutely right sir, defense does feed off of offense. There are probably a handful of guys not named Rondo that can keep up with Teague with a ball in his hand, and Joe Johnson is just a recurring nightmare. If you have to guard a backcourt of Jeff Teague and Joe Johnson, the opposing backcourt won’t be coming down and running circles around the Hawks. Fatigue leads to poor defense, bad shots, etc.

Mike Bibby is useful in many instances, but he simply does not make the opposing point guard work (but you already know this).

Teague makes the defense work harder, and plays better defense than Crawford and Bibby. Sure he made some rookie mistakes on D last season, going for incredibly obvious pump fakes and vet moves. Happens to the best of the rookie class. But if he can take over the starting spot and play above average defense, the Hawks will improve dramatically, regardless of offensive scheme.

Forget regular season success. Growing pains are a part of building any dynasty. Teague is gonna lose us some games if he eventually gets the starting spot, but if he’s gained enough experience to be prepared by the playoffs (and I can just feel it that this kid will adapt to the professional starter level of play when given the chance), then who cares us if we’re a 5th seed.

I’m still behind making Teague earn the spot, because this means he has to play at a certain level (the level we need him to play at to win) in order to acquire it. But if we go into the playoffs with Bibby as our starter, I’ll be outside of Philips scalping and protesting.

Scalping and protesting.

vava74

August 17th, 2010
12:23 pm

i_am_soulstar

Our offensive efficiency was a paper dragon as our frequent 4th quarter droughts proved mightily during the regular season.

Also, our offense was so focused on ISO play that it frustrated the players which were not featured in it undermining their defensive dedication. It is not fun to look at constant ISO plays and then be asked to work your but off in such a demanding defensive scheme like the switching D.

Finally, Drew brought in Conner as a the defensive coach and he has already said that the philosophy will be “no lay ups” and “stay with your man” or you get to see the bench first hand.

So, although a lot of people speak about the new offense I am under the impression that we will see a greater difference on D.

doc

August 17th, 2010
12:29 pm

the kid in oklahoma durant is the real deal not melo. he is the guy i want at almost any price when available. cp3 better be ready with cowboy boots is my suggestion to him; big starry skies instead of bright lights of manhatten would be best for him. i like the thunder who may supplant the suns on my preferred list, at least certainly when nash retires.

melvin i looked, but couldnt find anything about it in terms of what they gave up.

i_am_soulstar

August 17th, 2010
12:36 pm

vava74

August 17th, 2010
12:23 pm

vava,

I don’t think we will improve just from a no lay-up rule. There’s a part of the machine that is serviceable but doesn’t allow the machine to fulfill it’s full potential in terms of efficiency and that part is Bibby. He’d be great coming off the bench, as defense isn’t as much of a burden, but as a starter and as a PG who plays his position like Ray Allen, he does not make the other team work.

Even more importantly, he simply cannot guard the other team’s PG.

I absolutely appreciate his assists-to-turnover ratio and his spectacular and wise shot selection, but that won’t mean much if opposing point guards are blowing by him like toll booth violators.

i_am_soulstar

August 17th, 2010
12:37 pm

doc,

Kevin Durant is about as avaialable as Kobe.

i_am_soulstar

August 17th, 2010
12:37 pm

Astro Joe

August 17th, 2010
12:45 pm

I truly do not understand the “Melo love”.

O'Brien

August 17th, 2010
1:05 pm

doc,

The Jazz acquired Al Jefferson for the trade exception (acquired from the Carlos Boozer sign and trade) and the 2010 protected first-round pick from the Memphis Grizzlies that the Jazz acquired with the Ronnie Brewer trade, and another future first-rounder.

And Farmar signed for 3 years, $12 mil. We could not afford to pay Bibby $6 mil, Farmar $4 mil, and also try to develop Teague.

AJ,

MC has a blog up, saying Melo does not rank high in certain offensive statistics. Basically, he is a volume scorer, and not very efficient.

It doesn’t look like Tomic is included in the deal. If the Jazz are just trading first

niremetal

August 17th, 2010
1:20 pm

Well, a third PG was my peg for 2nd biggest need. And as sad as it is, Boykins is the best free agent PG left on the market. That being said, while he’s quick enough to stay in front of most PGs, he’s so small that it doesn’t really matter against all but a handful. I suppose he’s ok to pull out against Nate Robinson, but other than that…
http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/68721/20100817/hawks_reach_out_to_boykins/el/

vava74

August 17th, 2010
1:22 pm

Earl Watson would be a better insurance for us IMO

doc

August 17th, 2010
2:20 pm

i am, i am sure of that as well.

o’b, the problem is we cant afford to pay anyone else of worth period, is the way it goes. i understand that, doesnt mean i cant wish there was more in the bank.

Astro Joe

August 17th, 2010
2:38 pm

OB, like I said, I don’t get it. Melo is a modern day version of John Drew, a lot of FGAs, a lot of FTAs and not much else. I understand why a losing team (like the Knicks and Nets) would jump all over him, but I don’t see how he helps a 2nd round playoff team take the next step forward.

If the final roster spot goes to a PG (or Pape Sy), then the Hawks are putting a lot of faith in Collins’ ability to stay in playing condition from start to finish. That seems like a risky gamble to me.

niremetal

August 17th, 2010
3:24 pm

If the final roster spot goes to a PG (or Pape Sy), then the Hawks are putting a lot of faith in Collins’ ability to stay in playing condition from start to finish. That seems like a risky gamble to me.

No. They’re putting a lot of faith in the young All-Star the team has at center.

Wink

August 17th, 2010
3:36 pm

Here you go Ray

A Melo trade:

The following trade works with a +6 in the win total:

Melo, Birdman Andersen, Ty Lawson to Hawks

Josh, Marvin, Bibby to Denver

Lawson,JJ,Melo,Birdman, Horford

Teague,Jamal,Mo,Powell, ZaZa

Collins, Jordan Crawford, Pa Sy

O'Brien

August 17th, 2010
3:48 pm

vava,

Earl Watson was my pick too. But I would be surprised if he signs for the vet minimum.

I dont know if there would be any takers (and its possible Rick might have checked), but my plan would be to trade Mo Evans for a backup big, and then sign a backup SF for the vet minimum (Rodney Carney or Damien Wilkins maybe).

The bad thing is next year, we will once again be looking to sign a backup center and a backup PF for the vet minimum each. I wish we could afford to invest in better backups.

vava74

August 17th, 2010
4:57 pm

OB,

Although from a sentimental point of view I would certainly back Wilkins signing, he is also undersized to play the SF position. He is only 6′6” which is not much of an improvement over Mo’s 6′5” frame…

wordsmithtom

August 17th, 2010
4:59 pm

Can’t help myself…..Wonder if that was popcorn in that sac LW was going to flip for 110K. As Forrest Gump said: Stupid is as stupid does.

And, while I’m at it…..enough with Lebron’s “pixie dust” before games. White powder flying all over the place. Please….enough with the punk gangsta wannabe’s…..

Just say NO to anything that even hints at drug or drug promotion. As long as it’s illegal, this gangsta stuff only gives young men and boys an illusion of invulnerability and hopes for easy money. There is no EASY MONEY.

doc

August 17th, 2010
5:15 pm

so last year hawks owners were 22nd in salary in the league where the fans were 12th in expenditures:

The TMR fan index listed the Hawks with the 12th highest average ticket among NBA teams last season, the first time since 2001-02 in which the average ticket price league-wide declined. The Thrashers were 14th in the NHL.

my tix were some that went up considerably for this year. guess they thought i had a bargain. wish the hawks owners had upped their overhead the same amount as well. i think manny t ended up being priced out of his seats, too.

niremetal

August 17th, 2010
6:34 pm

12th highest average ticket price does not equal 12th highest attendance, 12th highest TV ratings or 12th biggest TV contract, 12th in team merchandise sold, etc. Stop acting like you know what the balance sheet looks like, Doc.

vava74

August 17th, 2010
6:37 pm

the atmosphere at MC’s blog is outright toxic with sorts of nonsense trades for ‘melo…

yikes!!! Josh or Al on the trading block for an offensive black hole… might as well bring Woody back with his ISO-offense…

niremetal

August 17th, 2010
6:39 pm

Oh, and the Hawks were 20th in payroll, not 22nd:
http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/resources/09-10salaries.htm

Small distortions in an effort to make your argument appear stronger are still distortions.

niremetal

August 17th, 2010
6:41 pm

Vava,

Careful. I have a feeling that black holes will resent the comparison to ‘Melo…