The mind of Al Horford

[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by dc101, TimD, Ctd101, lsportsfan95, sportscardcollector and others. sportscardcollector said: The mind of Al Horford: The debate that's been going on nearly since he came into the NBA has been whether or not … http://bit.ly/ayhIfD [...]

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There was another early summer interview (on UNIVision) where he said we need a true ‘5′.

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Al has said time after time we need a Center and Hawks Management has refused to listen to him. Maybe they will finally get the hint when he does NOT resign with the Hawks! The Hawks management team rivals the Clippers when in comes to indeptness.

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Al is wrong. His game is not nor fast enough to play against most quality PFs.

His actual advantage is the fact that he is quicker and more agile than most Cs in the league.

That is what made him easily beat the Hibberts of the NBA which body and game is more or less the standard for today’s 7 footers.

The exact same reasoning aplies to Josh, who is also a tweener who is not 100% suited for the PF slot (because he does not have an enforcer/garbage disposal mentality) but is waaaay to slow now to play the SF position (just check how his body changed since the 2007/2008 season into the 2008/2009).

Marvin is another tweener but in the oposite sense. He is fast enough to play the SF slot but his catch and shoot and his driving games are sub par. He is much more effective closer to the basket catching on the move (when not driving and not exactly posting up).

Based on the above, I think Drew’s offense will help extract more out of this particularly unconventional roster.

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how so many folk know who and what these players can do, but the players themselves dont know this. some people is just know it alls i guess.

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If Drew moves forward with his plan, it will at least give all involved to “test the theory” without having paid for an expensive center or traded valuable pieces. My assumptions is that Al ould rather win than play a certain position. If Drew emplys “situational match-ups” that keep Al from being wrecked by guys like Howard, Yao, and other larget/stronger centers, then chances are he won’t be angered by playing the 5 against Spencer Hawes or Noah. “More minutes” is all relative… if he plays 5 more minutes at PF this year vs. last year, I think Drew would have delivered against his word and it is doubtful the team will suffer.

One more thing, given the remarkable additions of Collins and Powell, it is also possible that something needed to be said to Horford to address his earlier comments. Plans change… Joe was once told that the Hawks would add pieces around him and in the 6 years as a Hawk, only one free agent was signed for more than $3m/year. Ish happens. Al should be prepared for the reality that our “fleet of centers” may not help this team win.

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@nire

THis may help your Naval analogy. Maybe you should have played more games in your youth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battleship_(game)

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Answered your way, @Big Ray…

1. I think Al prefers no to get mauled by a guy 50 lbs heavier when he is the heaviest guy on the floor for the Hawks. Against most C he is ok, but he’d like to serve some of the bruising that gets dished his way sometimes…thus time at PF.

2. Both. Al wants some of it and LD wants some time @ 4. It gets his bigger guys into the game. That should redude the reliance on jump shots.

3. If it is out of necessity, you do what you have to do to win. As Herm Edwards said, We play to win the game.

4. I personally think of your position as based on your defensive role. On offense, you can put guys where you want to create opportunity. Thus some centers shoot 3 pointers, and some guards post up. When Al is at the PF (on D) Josh’s role will be situational. If we need more slashers, than shooters on offense, Josh can play the 3. If we need the shooters, Josh is on the bench. Defensively, I don’t know that Josh is better suited to defend a SF than Marvin. It depends on the matchup.

5. Yes it is all about the matchup. I think (based on answer 1) you see more Jason & Zaza when Al is at the 4. Powell comes in as a PF, not a C (unless there is lots of foul trouble.) Powell is the new Joe Smith in the rotation. If the 5 need is more offensive, Zaza gets the call. If it is more defensive, Jason gets the call-unless we are playing the Celtics…Zaza has that special, stand in KG’s face energy thing

but more coming on versatility.

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good stuff ray. jusrt went to 82 games and there is little to go on of horford and zaza together as it was always zaza and josh. i did not see ever that woody put zaza, al and josh together though the unit of al, zaza, mo, jc and jj didnt too bad just very little time together. will come back and answer, family time.

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I think too much is made of what a guy can or can’t (presumably) do. I think the focus should be more on what certain combinations could possibly do next season to help the teams in areas of weakness. Judging from the fact that the Hawks got outrebounded by +10 every game in the second round and one guy shot over 84% from the field against them in the paint (not to mention what the rest of the team did), I’d say it’s probably a good idea to play bigger lineups featuring Al at the 4 more. Sticking with the same thing will most likely result in the same outcome no matter what’s done to improve the offense.

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lol i thought MR.Joe “Max Money” Johnson was gonna be recruiting players to come play for the hawks?

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1) Al prefers the 4.
2) shared by Drew and Al
3) As long as the team is winning, I think Al will not have a problem playing more center

4) More PF on offense (Josh Smith on the bench)

5) ZaZa will play more C (Collins too, depending on his shape), with Al at PF.

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I think JJ has been recruiting. Given the Hawks’ desire to stay below the luxury tax, he and his agent talk to all the guys in their agency that will take a minimum contract

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The last thing the Hawks want, is for the team to struggle in Drew’s system, and then watch Al bolt in free agency for a team who promises to let him play PF full time.

I’d rather the Hawks win and Horford be frustrated (because he thinks he is out of position) than have the Hawks lose and have Horford be frustrated (because the team is losing).

Al Horford is one of the 5 best centers in the NBA and he is playing alongside one of the 7-10 best power forwards. He needs to get that our team is strongest with him at center and Josh at PF than with anyone else at center and him at PF.

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nire, two words… Ben Gordon.

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I liken Al’s situation to Joe Johnson’s situation. When Joe came to the Hawks, he was asked to play the point guard position. Did he do well there? Reasonabley speaking, yes. Did he put up good numbers there? Yes. Did that make his natural position point guard simply because he had the ability to play there? No. Was he more comfortable at the two (his natural spot) than the one? Yes.

I think Al is in the same situation. Sure he has the ability to play the center position, but that’s obviously not where’s he’s most comfortable and he appears to be very confident that he could be more effective if he played more power forward (not necessarily exclusively). I happen to believe him over what anybody else says because he actually PLAYS the game and has a very high basketball I.Q. It’s very presumptous to assume that neither he or the team would be more effective if he played more at the 4. We’re yet to see him play predominately at the 4 thus far, but at Florida, he did (alongside Noah and Richard) and that was obviously very successful. I happen to think that Horford made the All-Star team at center because he’s a REALLY GOOD player, not because he’s a true center. If put in the same situation, I’m sure guys like Chris Webber, Karl Malone, Kevin Garnett and others were talented enough to have made the All-Star team playing center. Would that have meant that there best or true position is the 5. No.

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Sautee, if Gordon feels like the Bulls didn’t “treat him right”, then he probably feels very little if any regret. Now, he may have some huge regret about signing with the Pistons, but the first step was leaving the Bulls. Bringing it back to Al, IMO, I could care less which other team he signs with, I’d just be ticked off if he leaves the Hawks.

IMO, the Hawks need to decide quick and fast if Al is employee #15 or a franchise player. It almost feels like they have a generic definition of “the core”. At some point, they will have to differentiate between the core and the franchise player(s). You don’t wait to sweet talk franchise player(s) during a contract year and expect them to stay happy.

Al writes many of his tweets in Spanish first and then translates them into English. I love that about him… he embraces his heritage first even when that may not be the most lucrative decision. What if there is a voice whispering in his ear to go and play for a city with a larger Spanish-speaking population? Heck, maybe it’s something else that could drive him out of Atlanta, something less noble than becoming a Latino icon for the NBA. Should the Hawks tempt fate by treating him like employee #15 now and then trying to make things right later?

Sautee, back to the last blog, honestly, I’m not smart enough to know if the coach of the #8 seeded team is not making adjustments against a 60+ win team or if those adjustments simply aren’t working. But considering that the Celtics led at least 2 road games by at least 10 points before the Hawks fought back to win, my guess is that some adjustment was made.

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Astro,

The Bulls weren’t interested in signing Gordon to a long-term deal like the one he could get on the free agent market. Report after report during the summer of ‘08 indicated that the Bulls were not high on Gordon and were just not willing to give Gordon the offer he wanted. It wasn’t as if they were making him anything close to a max offer or even viewed him as an essential part of their core after the drafting of Rose.

The Bulls basically let Gordon go, and everyone and his mother thought about it that way. Something tells me the Hawks will be making a much more substantial offer to Horford next summer (after the new CBA is signed, of course).

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Okay I look it up. In the link below, it mention Gordon rejected a contract offer from the Bulls….

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4301111

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Melvin ,

Yep. Bulls offered Gordon $50 million. He turned it down. Like a fool.

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Jody ,

The only issue I have with that anaology is that the idea of Joe playing pg was Billy Knight’s idea, and it didn’t last very long at all. In fact, neither he nor the team functioned well like that. He was the leading and only credible scorer, and playing him as the pg was a failure.

The difference is that while playing the 5 may not be what Al prefers, it is undeniable that he has been successful at it. Now whether he can do better while playing the 5 than he can playing the 4 is another story. We’d have to see him play enough consistent minutes at the 4 to know one way or the other, and any speculation prior to the “proof that is in the pudding” is just that….speculation. Nothing more, nothing less.

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If the ASG offer Al the maximum extension, then I think he will stay.

But you never know. Do they offer him an extension this season, or do they wait until after the new CBA?

What if Al feels upset that they waited? What if he plays well at PF, strengthening his belief that he belongs there full time.

What if a team offers him a Max deal and he asks the ASG not to match (like JJ did in Phoenix), forcing a sign and trade.

You just never know…

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@ Big Ray,

I agree. However, I think the team will be selling itself short if they didn’t legitimately explore this possibility.

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Astro,

I am gonna (not) go out on a limb and predict that:

1) The Hawks will offer Horford a max or near-max extension under the new CBA; and
2) Horford will accept such an offer if it is given, regardless of what position he is playing.

The Bulls didn’t offer Gordon anything remotely close to the max. They didn’t even offer him anything remotely close to what they offered Deng. Everyone one and their mother said Gordon was expendable after the Bulls drafted Rose. It was a unique case that has never been repeated for or since in the entire history of restricted free agency.

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I guess I should say “You don’t overpay someone by that much just to soothe their ego.

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To each his own Big Ray. I find absolutely no distress in making a distinction between support of the cats on the floor vs the cats upstairs. Certainly wish the cats on the floor the very best; you’re welcome to the current suits in the ownership and management suites. I’ve passed.

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Newkid ,

Heh…I’ve stated before that I’m not impressed with what the “suits” have done (or not done) lately. Re-check a part of my statement -

…I wish the best for my team, despite ownership or anything else…

The key words are “despite” and “team”. If that isn’t distinction, I don’t know what is. The difference between you and me is that for the sake of the guys on the floor, I hope Al Horford stays, because they need him, and replacing him (knowing our management/ownership) would mean acquiring a lesser player. Your statement about Al leaving seemed to have concern for just Al, not the other guys. Nothing wrong with that, I just had a differing viewpoint. And it was in support of the group of guys on the floor, not the group of guys in suits.

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The Hawks have about a 3-yr window where they will be the most athletic team in the east (OKC out west???)…Any kind of speed & defense at PG, along with depth at the 5 will make them a serious contender…To maintain this athletic advantage, Horford should play MOST of his minutes at the 5, and I think he will be fine with this…I think Al’s issues came with Woodson always sending Za Za in for Al and Joe Smith in for Josh Smith, there was no experimenting with different lineups…If I’m reading 82 games.com right, it looks like Horford played PF while Za Za played center for only 35 minutes all year…I think Al wants Za Za to be the first big off the bench (similar to how Ja Craw is the first guard off the bench), Za Za goes to center while either Josh or Horford plays the 4 and the other sits…You can also experiment with all 3 on the floor together, but lack of quality depth behind these 3 will likely limit this type of set…Can Za Za stay on the floor if given 20-25 minutes a game on average?…I’m sure Woodson was worried that with Za Za & Horford on the floor together that they were more likely to get one of them in foul trouble (again, not trusting the depth of his bench).

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Sounds like semantics and selectivity to me Ray. My original line was: “Would love to see him stay and play in Atlanta for years to come, but wish him…” Don’t think we disagree on that, but I guess I could see that being non-contextually contorted to allow the suggestion that such a statement puts an individual over the cats on the floor. It doesn’t.

Al won’t engineer machinations geared to get him relocated (notwithstanding AJ’s proper reference to a plausible case being made that in future he could have desires for relocation to a market with broader Hispanic appeal), unless of course he comes to the conclusion that ASG actions clearly indicate they have elected to ’stay on the porch’ (thanx drmaryb). Such a conclusion is clearly already well within the fathomable for all who care to remove the blinders (btw, I count you in that number).

The ASG are hoping and praying (against all odds) for a basketball Prince Charming (or two) to fall from the heavens into their laps, rather than aggressively seeking to engineer the necessary acquisitions to compete for the O’Brien. Absolutely dreadful talent evaluation & selection (e.g., Shelden Williams, Marvin Williams, AC Law, etc), putrid acquisitions (e.g., Speedy Claxton), and bottom-feeding have all contributed to ‘misses’ in that search for Prince Charming. If there’s one that for which the ASG has shown acumen it’s consistently stumbling and falling. They’d giggle all the way to Bank of America if Superman were to grace them with his return to the ATL in a couple years (if only out of his desire to return to the city he knows as home), but they’ve demonstrated they’re not prepared (financially or otherwise) or capable of developing and executing a top shelf game plan that allows them to successfully compete with those who have long since elected to stay in the race and never retire to the porch. Who could blame Al – a winner of the first order – for deciding that committing a full third of his career to that sort of nonsense is enough? Don’t even think the cats who’ll likely continue to pound the oak at Phillips would begrudge him that, why would I?

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It’s a good thing that Al doesn’t have a relationship with the player below and therefore is likely to have no idea that a center drafted after him (and who has not made the All-Star team) is in talks with his team regarding a contract extension. Because that may be something that may disturb Horford to learn.

It will be interesting to see how many teams opt to “take care” of their franchise cornerstones now as opposed to waiting until the new CBA offers them some financial benefits. So far, the Thunder have done it with Durant and seemingly have started talks with Jeff Green. And now this guy below.

Yessir, we ain’t got nuttin’ to worry ’bout.

Chicago Bulls center Joakim Noah wants to sign a long-term deal with the team and hopes to have one done before the season begins in October. Noah said his agent, Donald Dell, has already started discussing the parameters of a deal with Bulls general manager Gar Forman and the 25-year -old is confident the parties can work something out in the near future. ESPN.com

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Al, likes the 4 and is clearly most comfortable at the 4. As a 5 he gets caught away the basketball every so often because he naturally expects the 5 to have his back. (I think) I’m much less concerned with the position Al plays, than is ability to improve as a player. Even though Bosh, Beasley, Boozer and Lewis are clearly better offensive players at PF, they still lack Horford’s toughness. I really don’t worry about Horford because I know he’s getting better and from what I see is a solid guy.

Every time I look at the HAWKS stats to see trends to improve on, it really seems to show that assist production coming the PG position is the key. I want to see Smoove have a consistent right hand hook and Al have a consistent left hand hook, but I don’t think those improvements will have as much impact as a PG that can consistently drive and dish. We really need to get serious improvement from Jeff T.

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kwooden1,

Another imrpovement the team needs (as Macaroni Tony) pointed out is more FTA. I think Teague and LD’s offense will help with that.

AJ,

Al said he knew that the priority was to re-sign JJ, so he will just have to see how his contract situation goes (sounds similar to the Chills situation, when resigning Josh was the priority).

I think Drew as the HC will improve the chances of Al staying though. Drew is more likely to give Al more minutes at PF, and is more likely to get him more touches.

All Woody wanted from Al (on offense) was 12 or 13 points. Al probably believes he is capable of doing more than that.

As for Noah’s situation, I can understand the Hawks waiting, because Noah will not get a max deal like Al, so the Hawks have more $ to save by waiting on the new CBA.

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AJ,

O’Brien hinted at this in his post, but I think you’re looking for examples of guys in different strata than Al. Al is an All-Star, but not a superstar. He is likely to get a max offer from somewhere (unlike Noah/Green), but is not viewed as a superstar and franchise cornerstone (like Durant). Durant just led the league in scoring on a 50-win squad and is being pegged as an MVP candidate. Al just made his first All-Star team. Different strata.

A more realistic comparison would be to see what the Blazers do with Oden. While Oden has obviously had more injuries than Al, he is almost certain to get a premium since he is an athletic 7-footer (see Andrew Bogut). Like Horford, Oden is likely to get the max from someone, but he is not viewed as a surefire superstar. Thus, both team will probably be saving several million dollars per year by offering the max under the new CBA instead of the max under the current one.

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Oden is entering his 4th pro season and has played in 82 games. Horford has played in 229 games over the identical career length. Oden’s playoff average (in 6 games) is 5 points, 4 boards and 1 block per game. Nene was an oft-injured center who received a 5/$50 deal even after battling injuries. Chandler was in the same ballpark. Yes, Oden has a better rep than those guys, but he has also played 1 in every 3 games over his brief career. A max deal for that guy? Well, I guess Isiah is back in some capacity with the Knicks, so maybe you’re right.

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Astro,

I will bet you a beer the next time I’m at a Hawks home game that Oden’s next contract starts within $2M/year of the max. Deal?

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Uh oh, looks like Truth Serum found a new library…

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It sure would be nice to get to the ECF though.

From ESPN;

The Hawks are a solid team that seems stuck in no man’s land, having failed to make the conference finals for 40 years — since the Lakers swept them in the 1970 Western Division finals — and that probably won’t change in 2011. .

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Ray, in the vernacular of my daughter, we’re just kicking it. Please, no apologize man.

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Thibadeau’s defensive genius against Drew’s offensive prowess. That would make for an entertaining series between two inexperienced coaches.

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Ths is a joke right??? The man siad his natural postion is a 4 end of debate of course he is cool playing the 5 b/c most 4’s in the L can play the 5 and he also would love to start so him saying that only tells me 1 he wants to play and 2 like we all agree he is ok vs half of the L but the point is what he would be best playing and perfers to play period!! We can stop using this all-star excuse too b/c for one aint but about 3 centers in the east worth making the team and last year had the nets not been God awful Lopez would have made it over Big Al!! Im not saying Al did not have a good year but he was an All Star by default but im not going to take that away from that man b/c he has put in work and he is maybe my favorite player on the team. Like i said im if you read between the lines he knows he is a miss match on most nights at the 5 but this is based on how we run our offense. Just as we can say he is a match up problem for 5 if he played the 4 he could be one too but at the end of the day this old a** debate has nothing to do with all playing the 5 vs the scrubs its vs the Magic, Lakers and Cavs last year b/c we showed we were ok vs the C’s and now this year its going to be vs the Magic Lakers and C’s this year since they got bigger. Al liek most of us fans are not dumb and have played enough basketball to now that if your too little some times and teams slow you down it could lad to bad things!! To me im glad this article shows us what Big Al thinks but even if he never said these things it only makes sense to move him to the 4!!!!!! To me Josh is odd man out b/c no way he can play the 3 and i dont think with his personality Josh Smith is cool coming off the bench in his hometown based on his numbers maybe im wrong but i doubt it!!!!!!!!!

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We really need to stop wtih this what to do with Big Al talk its starting to make us seem like we dont know about basketball but i can say over 85% of us agree he needs to move to the 4 and the other 15% along wtih our dumb a** owners tend to think he is cool playing the 5 like for two years we have not saw this and seeing STAT all them years play the 5 and get banged on to where it has turned a 26 year old body into a 32 year olds is not proof enough!!!

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wordsmithtom,

Phoenix also showed how to develop and trust your bench. They key is to give your bench guys PT early on. Sure, you may lose a game or 2 early, but it usually pays off down the stretch and in the playoffs.

Maybe the fact that Woody was in the last year of his deal made him tighten the rotation, but if so, how ironic is it that the co-owner was disappointed in his bench usage (saying Teague deserved more PT, and that Joe Smith and Collins were under-utilized).

Also, why would Jordan Crawford get minutes at the 2, when we have Jamal (and even Mo) for that? And I dont think you would want Jordan, Jamal and JJ on the court at the same time.

Except for injuries or blowouts, I just dont see Jordan getting much PT.

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I think Drew finds minutes for Mo Evans. This team only has a few vocal guys who will speak out and Mo is one of them. If Drew buries him on the bench, he also loses one of the very few out-spoken players on the team. I think that is one of the reasons Woody gave Bibby the benefit of the doubt. Not only was Bibby terrific at protecting the ball (IMO, the number one responsibility of a PG is to minimize TOs), but Bibby was likely the only guy who could bridge the gap between Joe and Josh. But once Jamal started finishing games (with Bibby on the bench), Bibby likely lost his desire to speak up. The PG position will hold the most inetrest for me in the coming season. I want to see if Teague can “take the reigns” as opposed to just being an athletic PG. And I want to see if Bibby will do more than mentor Teague (which I think will definitely happen), and become the elder statesman for the entire team.

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wordsmithtom,

Make it clear: lose the weight, keep it off, and only playing him will give him the modivation to do so.

It shouldnt have to be that way though. Collins should be professional enough to get in shape, after all, he did sign a contract.

AJ,

I remember Bibby’s first year with the Hawks, he did a lot more talking (in a positive way), so it will be interesting to see what happens this year.

But you’re right. Teague is going to have to grow up like Rondo. Imagine being a young PG with 3 potential HOF on the team, and you have to run the offense, and keep everybody happy.

That will nbe Teague’s biggest challenge. If Josh is too close to the 3 point line, Teague needs to tell him to go in the post. If Marvin is not slashing like he is supposed to, Teague needs to tell him.

However, Teague will have to hold up his end of the bargain, and do the things Drew is expecting him to do with his play.

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Ray, true. Evans is very streaky offensively, but he generally gives consistent defensive effort. If the pentangle is effective, then maybe a 25% shooting Evans (which I think was his shooting performance over a 4-5 week period last season) can still provide value to the team as a staunch defender.

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Actually, I like the analogy that wordsmitton gave of Al & Duncan and how they are utilized by their teams. Duncan had the benefit of the Admiral when he first arrived and Al has no such luck. Duncan was able to establish himself as a true PF with a deadly bank shot to relý on.

Al reminds me more so of Karl Malone in Utah game-wise, but again, without the benefit of the pick and roll specialist: Stockton to set him up in the paint.
Also, both the Spurs and jazz have a staple system of offense to fit into.
Both, those teams were lead by coaches who set them up with a recognizable
offense of piks and rolls and player/ball movement.

That actually makes Al more special, because he has had to adapt to the 5 position and without a penetrating or reliable PG. He was just unlucky to be drafted by the Hawks and still managed to become an All-Star.
Al is definitely a quality player who can play multiple positions well.

The Hawks also got lucky when Josh was drafted at the 17 spot and has grown into a bona fide starter the 4. It just so happens that we have two starting PF’s which has been more of a blessing than a curse, because we have two guys with great attitudes as team players. I would never trade a Big for a small, but would consider trading a PF for a high caliber Center to balance the team for a string of opportunities to win a championship.

See Gasol plays fantastic at the 4 because he has the privilege of teaming with a 5 – Bynum. That is the quintessential Twin Tower ala Duncan and David of the past. We would be unstoppable IF we had a Twin to Tower with Al.
We would be too BIG to FAIL! We would need a government bail – out if we went down.

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Reportedly, McGrady signs for the vet minimum in Detroit and agrees to come off the bench. Huh.

So….I’ll go out on a limb and assume that he didn’t sign there…

A) For the money

B) Because he wanted to join a team with a shot at contending

C) For a starting/starring role

So….why not entice him to come here? Oh wait, I forgot. The roster is set (we just need to add another big for the vet minimum to carry the minimum number of players allowed), and who needs another guy who can play SF when we have the best option at backup SF in the league in Mo Evans?

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Ray,

I suggested sometime ago to get TMac, for 2 reasons.

1) He is low risk, high reward. Imagine if he is able to work himself in shape, and be 75% of what he used to be?

2) Marketability. He was almost voted a starter to the ASG last year.

Plus if he caught fire by the trading deadline, we could explore trade options for Jamal and/or Mo.

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AJ,

I didnt like Teague’s comments either.

“I think I am just going to start passing the ball up to the wings instead of bringing it up. It takes too long into the shot clock for to get the offense going . That’s how it’s going to be when I play with Joe and those guys, anyway.” .

Under Woody (with Acie and even Bibby last year), the PG would often get to halfcourt, give the ball up to JJ or Jamal, and then wait around for an open look.

We need more than that from Teague. And LD being a veteran PG, I am confident that he will help Teague change his mindset.

As for the turnovers, I remember Bibby making some costly errors at critical points. And I’m sure Teague will have his share. However, we have also seen Teague not give up on the play, but race downcourt to try and make up for his mistake with a block or steal (or foul). We hardly saw that from Bibby.

I do agree that Bibby might need to start initially, but I dont know if he will be good enough to play 28 mpg.

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As I recall, Teague’s assist to turnover ration wasn’t too shabby either, for a guy who played 9 mpg….

Unfortunately, that is what is called garbage time. I have no idea what his assist to turnover ratio was in actual minutes played during the game, that “mattered.” I don’t even know if he played enough of those in the regular season for 82games.com or anybody else to take notice.

As for his comments, I don’t like them either, but I also don’t think Larry Drew will put up with that sort of attitude. His offense sure won’t run well that way.

I also am not in favor of handing him the starting job right off the bat, either. Unless of course, he earns it in training camp and continues that performance in preseason. If Drew places him in that role, I could only assume that Teague earned the right to it, or did enough to prompt Drew to at least try it. But I actually don’t see it happening right now. 20 mpg to start things off sounds about right to me.

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I remember Bibby making some costly errors at critical points.

I don’t. Seriously. When were these costly errors at critical points?

However, we have also seen Teague not give up on the play, but race downcourt to try and make up for his mistake with a block or steal (or foul). We hardly saw that from Bibby.

That’s because Teague made mistakes frequently while Bibby made mistakes rarely. I’m with AJ – I don’t take much consolation in not giving up on a play you just blew, and I don’t take any consolation when that effort fails to prevent the other team from scoring. I remember 1 chasedown block by Teague last year. Even if there were more, he fouled more often than he got a stop, and dude was just NOT a stopper in transition defense. When he turned it over, it usually was a 4-point swing.

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nire and aj you have heard me in agreement with you guys on this. unfortunately some of teague’s highlights were after bone head mistakes. i am still not sold on him, havent seen a lot of him but what i have seen i cant place my faith in just yet. for me it is bibby until he steps up with some consistency.

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Our path to an ECF berth:

http://www.nba.com/hawks/news/1011_Schedule_PR.html

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Man and I came REAL close to plucking down that $200 deposit to see the Dreamgirls. At least the other game is on a Friday evening… although not until March. Essentially, Atlanta fans will likely have a SINGLE chance to see the Dreamgirls at the Highlight Factory.

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Wow, that’s a brutal schedule. 23 back to backs, and not one of them is home/home. That means that more than half of our schedule will consist of back-to-back games in different cities.

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When MBibby arrived at the trade deadline, his OFF production increased the Hawks scoring average by 9PPG. However, his extremely weak DEF also caused the teams PPG allowed to increase 9PPG. While that extremely weak DEF has probably gotten worse, his overall OFF production has gotten a lot worse.

If we can add 2PPG to last yrs 101.7PPG average, and reduce last yrs 97.0PPG allowed by 2PPG, that would be a 4pt turnaround. Last yr, we lost 4gms by fewer than 4pts, 1gm by 4pts, and 3 OT gms. With that 4pt turnaround, we could have won 7 additional gms, which would have given us a 60 win season, and taken another into overtime.

If adding Bibby can add 9 DEF and 9 OFF PPG, then adding Teague to the rotation, and getting more OFF production out of Marvin, should be worth 2 fewer DEF PPG and 2 additional OFF PPG.

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A lot of motion offenses don’t require the PG to be the floor general, just another one ofthe “5 offensive weapons” on the court. So Teague may very well be passing immediately after crossing half-court. Did Bibby average a bunch of assist when playing next to C-Web, Divac and Peja? No. I wouldn’t count on Teague doing much penetrating, only if the pentangle breaks down and they are looking for an alternate to an iso bail-out. But if he is supposed to zig instead of zag, that is when we don’t need to be concerned about “struggling to learn team concepts”.

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‘Kenny Huang’ Is this a name we’re likely to hear more in the years ahead as it relates to buying/selling of NBA franchises? Have a look.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/11/sports/soccer/11liverpool.html?_r=1&ref=global-home

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newkid, there clearly are ultra wealthy guys out there with a passion for sports teams. The only issue as I see it is the notion that the ASG are looking for a partner as opposed to someone to purchase the whole thing. I can’t imagine someone with deep pockets wanting to be a roomie with others. Eventually, they will have to decide to maintain the status quo or sell the whole thing (or at least 50%+ of the entities).

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Great topic, Ray. This was a very interesting read. I’d just like to say that while it is fun to ponder about next season’s PF/C combination lineups and the mysteries of Al Horford’s mind, he is the least of my worries when it comes to the team. Al is, in my opinion, the most reliable and mature player on the entire Hawks roster. I know that regardless of what position he is asked to play (while it appears he is a bit more comfortable at the 4), he will excel at it and become more and more effective. This guy has all the physical talent necessary to be a great player and the fundamental skills and work ethic to put it all together.

With that being said, my concern is who will be on the floor with Al, if he plays PF in some lineups. I’m not a big fan of Collins at all. He is a big body on the court, but honestly, I think he would be best suited for very specific situations (e.g. taking fouls against the larger, more physical centers when Al and Zaza are in foul trouble). I like Zaza as a back-up center and respect what he brings to the table, but I’m a bit worried about having him play heavier minutes at center, on the defensive end of the floor. He’s a solid rebounder and has serviceable quickness for a center, but he’s no-where near as effective as Al, defensively, in 1 vs. 1 situations. On the plus side, a lot of the Centers in this league are not very impressive on the offensive end, so the Hawks can get away with gambling with either Zaza or Powell at center, occasionally, considering both guys have the girth to hold their own in the post.

One other thing, in terms of where Josh Smith should be when Al is playing the 4, I would say, definitely on the bench. From a defensive standpoint, both Marvin and JJ are more effective than Josh on the perimeter. Also, offensively, it’s always a good idea to keep josh away from the 3 point line. The only thing I don’t like about giving Zaza, Collins, and possibly Powell greater minutes than they had in the past is that the line-up with features Josh and Al together is typically the most effective, and you start to lose a bit on both ends of the floor when you take one of them off of the floor.

With all of that being said, I think LD should try out different combinations and adapt to whichever is most effective for the given situation. However, he may find that sticking with the traditional line-up that Woodson was using, perhaps without bibby at the point, may be most effective. You have to keep in mind, that outside of Dwight Howard, the Hawks really didn’t have a prominent problem with any of the league’s other big men. Also, in terms of the rebounding woes from the previous years, much of that can and will be corrected by avoiding the switching defense, which will allow Josh and Al to have proper rebounding position in the post. Of course, there will be certain situations where a line-up featuring maybe Al at the 4, or Josh at the 4, and someone else at the 5 will be most effective, but those are situations where LD should adapt as necessary. As someone mentioned earlier, this team has a lot of versatility, and can shift line-ups as necessary to gain the proper advantage.

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K-dogg,

about this: “We can stop using this all-star excuse too b/c for one aint but about 3 centers in the east worth making the team and last year had the nets not been God awful Lopez would have made it over Big Al!!”

I’ll politely disagree. If sportswriters were naming the reserves for the All-Star team, I’d tend to agree, but the reserves were named by the Head Coaches.

I just don’t believe that the coaches are as easily swayed by the number of wins that a particular team had. If they WERE wouldn’t Shaq, whose team by far had the most cumulative wins by February, have likely made it before Horford?

So let’s disagree on this one.

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I believe JCollins was signed last yr for the express purpose of defending Shaq and DHoward. He actually did a very good job against Shaq, when given a chance, and had some success against Howard, when the refs allowed him to get close to him.

If losing weight and getting into better condition can help him regain some of the he once had, he’ll be a good rehire. He was a very good defender when he was the Nets starting center, and I don’t think he’s forgotten how to defend. I think LDrew intends to utilize him more, and wants him to be more mobile and be able to defend the position, not just one or two specific players.

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To be honest, my expectations is that the Hawks make it to the playoffs and be competitive in the second round.

So, 46-36 would be fine to me provided that I saw them be balling like a team instead of just a bunch of guys looking like they were assembled as a team 20 minutes prior to the game.

I think this group could become a real force by the end of the season when all new concepts mesh and things fall into place (including Teague’s game).

I rather lose home court advantage and finally have a competitive game with good and varied offensive and defensive schemes than the paper dragon we had last year.

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Any position between 3rd and the 6th seed is irrelevant since we should be able to be competitive enough to win the first round match up regardless of home court advantage.

My forecast is that MIA, ORL and BOS will occupy the first 3 slots. This means that if we finish 6th, we would match up against BOS.

I like our chances against that geriatric posse.

If we finish 4th or 5th we should match up against CHI which I think are perfectly beatable.

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Astro,

The conference and the division got tougher.

A new system always takes time to kick in.

We are bound to have more injuries than last year.

All the above make it difficult to get more wins than last year (not out of the question, but difficult).

Woody’s 53 wins were – unfortunately – a paper dragon.

Let’s hope that Drew’s work fructifies at the end of the season and through the playoffs giving us at least a 7 game second round series.

Hopefully with a win, but if not, at least an honorable defeat instead of the ludicrous showing we had last year.

Woody was the main culprit since even if the players did gave up on him and chemistry collapsed, the ultimate responsible is always the coach. What happened was the corollary of his incompetence.

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AJ,

Boston won less games than we did last year, but they made the NBA finals, so its not just about regular season wins (as Woody found out).

Sure, we would love to win more than 53 regular season games. But after seeing us go 0-8 in the second round under Woody, who would complain about Drew if his team goes 48-34, and then 2-4 in the second round, while being competitive in all 6 games?

And if the Chemistry is better, and the players appreciate Drew’s accountability, dont you think they would call the season an improvement over Woody?

And like vava said, if the games are competitive in the second round, then the Hawks will have a chance to make it to a game 7, where anything can happen.

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Yeah, sure. The Celtics were decimated with injuries in the regular season and a strong playoff run was possible in large part because of their health AND championship experience. If the Hawks finish in the 5th seed (or lower), then you are asking them to do something we haven’t seen before, win big games on the road against a favorite. All I know is that there was a lot of gnashing of teeth regarding under utilization of the bench, poor defensive schemes, iso-heavy offense, poor 4th quarter production, a Finals-caliber roster, we could have won more games, blah, blah, blah, whine, whine, whine. Suddenly the hard numbers give way to a subjective evaluation of “well, we lost better than we lost previously”.

Hey, I support the dismissal of Woody, but this doesn’t feel like an upgrade and losing better in the same round doesn’t feel like anything more than an empty moral victory.

Chicago is learning a new system/coach, are their fans expecting the same season? How about Philly fans? Will the Raptors or Cavs be better than last season? Very, very doubtful. Some teams go up and some teams go down. The total wins in the conference may increase some, but not likely a lot.

Let’s face it, we’re treading water indefinitely, until Sund decides to break-up this magical CORE or our minimum wage coach delivers a near maximum wage coaching performance. Or, the ASG use the MLE to improve the playing rotation. Until one of those things happen, we must take solace in a free-flowing offense that may produce fewer wins. Style, not substance.

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AJ,

There is nothing more “free-flowing” and unstructured than our ISO happy offense last year:

Ball crossed the half court, JJ (or Jamal, or occasionally Al or Josh) gets it and then he free flowed himself into a tough shot.

Some went in (many actually), some did not, whilst the rest of the team just stood around looking at a distance and shaking their heads.

I can coach any NBA team with that type of offense…

EVERYONE is saying the opposite about Drew’s offense: all reports have been saying that it takes time to learn due to its complexity.

Those reports alone are enough to overrule a “free flowing” qualification.

Like always you are using your own personal perception about certain individuals to distort evident realities.

Last year you pointed out that our offense was a lot more varied by the end of the season and that we could see improvements on our coaching where no one else could see them: we just had more players going ISO. All on account of your appreciation for Woody.

Now, you are clearly biased against Drew because he is “minimum wage” and due to this you are starting to christen his offense as “free flowing” before you even see 1 minute of game time.

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Vava, and in my vernacular, free-flowing is a references, motion, fluidity, you know… free flowing like water. It doesn’t mean chaotic or undisciplined. It implies movement (which I thought was at the heart of many complaints about the previous offfense).

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Astro,

I had to walk away from my computer to roll on the floor to laugh at your 11:44 post…

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A 4-team, late summer trade is brewing. Pacers may finally land a quality PG.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5455472

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From the trade article;

For the Hornets, while moving Collison leaves the team without a credible backup for Chris Paul, the addition of Ariza gives them a young, athletic wing entering his prime. .

I wonder if they would have taken Marvin as the centerpiece of a Hawks deal?

As for the Pacers, I wonder if Larry Bird is under pressure, because what has the team done in terms of wins and losses the last 3 years.

Joe Dumars should be under pressure too.

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LOL @ Melvin. If the Hawks could bring back Alan Henderson, they would.

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Astro,

I think Terrence Williams will start over Morrow.

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My take: The Pacers still suck, the Raptors still suck, the Nets still suck, the Hornets still will go as CP3 goes, and the Rockets better pray Battier stays healthy.

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O’Brien,

I think that was implied in “the Hornets still will go as CP3 goes.” They sucked last year with Collison as PG, and I found it beyond laughable that there were some people suggesting that the Hornets might view CP3 as expendable because Collison put up better-than-expected (but still mediocre) stats while he was out. Nevermind that the Hornets sucked during that period.

Collison ain’t bad, but I don’t see him as ever being in the All-Star discussion. He’s solid, but I don’t see much upside.

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O’Brien,

I wonder how much of the deal was management sending CP3 a clear signal that they will not consider trading him.

As for Collison/Teague…let’s just say that if Teague had played in NO last year and Collison here, I have a hunch we’d be having the same conversation but with the names inverted.

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Astro,

Do you even read what you write?

“Vava, and in my vernacular, free-flowing is a references, motion, fluidity, you know… free flowing like water. It doesn’t mean chaotic or undisciplined. It implies movement (which I thought was at the heart of many complaints about the previous offfense).”

“free-flowing like water” – IS THERE ANYTHING MORE CHAOTIC and UNDISCIPLINED THAN HOW WATER FLOWS?

You don’t have any limits in finding undefensible ways to support your flimsy arguments.

Last year we had 4 or 5 set plays (maximum) which were used sparingly at best:

And I only remember 2:

A first quarter gig in which Bibby made a baseline cut, curled to the free throw line off a pick to hit a jumper (one per game max) and the play of the sideline inbounds pass which typically released Josh for a alley-hoop jam off a pick at the elbow.

How many times did we see the Hawks getting ZERO points out of time outs and “Woody’s plays”.

I bet I can get a good depiction of what Woody said during those time outs:

- “Al, you set a pick on the top of the key”
- “the rest of the guys just scramble”
- “Bibby, the inbounds pass goes to JJ who will be free (but he never was since everyone knew that the ball was going to him)”
- “JJ, when you get the rock, do your thing”
- “Bibby, if by any chance JJ is not free, get the ball to Jamal”
- “Jamal, did you hear that? If the rock goes to you, just do your thing”

And that was it.

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Astro,

Keep it going. Always ducking and diving.

I am not sure how many wins will Drew manage to extract from this group, however, we all knew before the playoffs last year that those 53 wins were a paper dragon that would go up in smoke in the playoffs.

During the regular season, when you are moderately successful you need to start analyzing HOW YOU WIN and HOW YOU LOSE games. That will tell how playoffs will go.

Our losses came out of our COMPLETE inability to adjust on both Offense and Defense to what other teams were putting on the floor.

On offense, we failed to break simple zone defenses, failed to get JJ clean looks instead of having him go against 2 or 3 defenders at the time and, for instance, failed to make Howard come out of the paint, be in foul trouble and reduce his intimidation factor at the rim.

On defense, we failed to simply stop playing the switching D when we were clearly being beaten due to it and failed to defend the perimeter: many scrubs, semi-scrubs and average players had season or career bests from 3 point land against us.

Many games were lost during the 4th quarter with weak offensive outputs precisely when games turned into “playoff-crunchtime-mode”.

Anyone with an unbiased view on how we were faring knew we were going the wrong direction and there was no hope that Woody would evolve and “raise his game” when we lost in PHO and then at GS.

That was the precise moment in which I stopped believing and became a less emotionally involved spectator.

PS:

Another interesting factor which aided our record, beyond the fact that we were virtually injury free, is that we played a lot of playoff bound teams at the end of their respective away trips.

That alone handed to us in a silver platter some of the nice wins we got (at least we did not botched those opportunities): DEN, POR, LAL, UTH, … all played in ATL tired and worn out.

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vava that link didnt impress me especially when he started in on the jamal is a three, prob a typo that can blow by anybody(but cant stop anyone either i might add) but should be signed by the club now to an extension knowing we need to save money for al next year. it sounded like a sophomoric pr writing by the hawks.

this one is better for perspective:

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17062

again the first one kind of left me cold. anyway we are either gathering stem and stay where we are or rotting from within and going backwards. honestly new coach new system we should expect a backward step but improvement as the season goes on. if it goes in the other way instead of slow improvement, heaven forbid.

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Astro,

Ducking and diving:

You were wrongly dissing something that you have not seen yet and that has been reported as complex and structured. You called it “free-flowing”.

I criticized you for that.

You then presented an absurd explanation on what you considered “free-flowing” (already ducking and diving here).

I exposed your lame explanation and excuse.

You came back with a completely different conversation, talking about 53 wins (ducking and diving galore).

I expose your ducking and diving.

You question that but ducking and diving even more but wrongly reducing my commentaries to “varied offense = equals playoff competitiveness” when I clearly stated BOTH factors:

Offensive variation and Defensive variation adaptability as the cornerstones for BBall success.

More ducking and diving from your side…

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Come on, vava. You’ve been on the board long enough to know that Astro Joe lacks the capacity to address someone’s argument head-on.

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Tell me what I’m ducking? The offense will be better. Wonderful. Will it be Don Nelson Dallas Mavs better? Sactown with Bibby better? Nellie’s Warriors better? D’Antoni’s Suns better? If so, grand. I think that some of those teams made it to their respective conference finals at least once. I’ll take that. But if you truly believe that the ‘10-11 Hawks makes the ECF, well, send me what you’re smoking. Especially considering that many are predicting fewer wins (which likely leads to a lesser playoff seeding and a more challenging road). What else do I need to address regarding style and potentially little substance? Tee it up.

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Stop ducking and diving and nitpicking my stuff while I’m busy doing the same to yours! It’s not fair!

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Ray, the arrogance kills me. Like they can read my mind and know what I meant. It’s Ludacris (and Outkast and TI and all of the other Atlanta-based rappers).

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Doc ,

Thanks for the hoopsworld link. Pretty much what I thought when it came to the Bulls – their offseason moves look good, but that may not translate into a catapult up the standings. Give their front office an “A” for effort, but as I stated a blog or two ago, they won’t be as easy to beat as before, but that’s my only assertion.

As for the Hawks, I found it interesting that he figures Teague and Jordan Crawford will be starters eventually. Teague is still no lock to do so (though many of us have hopes, and Drew certainly intends it to be that way if the young fella grows into it). It’s a tad early to write Crawford’s name in the book though, don’t you think?

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Astro Joe ,

What? You don’t like being told what you are “truly” thinking and saying, despite your own assertions to the contrary? How dare you argue with those who know you better than you know yourself! You sir, are charged with ducking, weaving, bobbing, dodging, diving, sliding, turning, twisting, spinning, contorting, gyrating, flip-flopping, and otherwise avoiding the directly indirect accusations of….what was the original subject again?

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I think the subject was why did we trade ‘Nique for Danny Manning. Or anything other than a summer of sameness that projects to fewer wins.

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Less wins does not equal more success.

I agree. But I base my slightly differing opinion on something else entirely. The Celtics had a “less successful” regular season than we did, but a much more successful postseason. I’d go for something like that. Win 47-49 regular season games, then win 2 or 3 in the 2nd round of the playoffs probably qualifies for your theme of “losing better”, though I’d argue that this would be evidence of “being more competitive” as opposed to laying down the way we have in the last two postseasons.

However, if you told me we could get out of the 2nd round (with a victory that is), but we’d have to sacrifice some regular season wins, I’d be all for it…

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Nire ,

Is that “free-flowing” or Tom Petty “free-falling”?

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“Feel Flows” by the Beach Boys. Get that weak Tom Petty $hit outta here

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I just brush my clothes off after rolling on the floor laughing so hard at yall “Free Flowing” posts….

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yeah ray, you picked up on one of the great fallacies of that article and any discussion of the hawks because a lot of it has to do with the unproven quantities becoming major contributors this year including the head coach LD. we know absolutely nothing about him except the much maligned billy knight wanted to fire woody several years ago and put him in his place. bk was then ceremoniously fired or given a short leash of one year or fired for suggesting it then to have the owners and his replacement do it many wins down the road then hire exactly who he wanted. yes, the long and winding road. anyway it was a bit more objective than a lot of what is said nationally, is credible until proven otherwise and it is good to see someone speak nicely of our bunch. i just hope folks a speaking of them in january in hallowed tones.

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The Bucks are going to suck. They are last years’ Wizards, but with less talent.

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Charles, that’s Mr.Barkley to you Queen James…

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/08/12/charles-barkley-rips-lebron-miamis-big-three-as-punks/

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Enter your comments here

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nire,

After reading that story, I’ll have to agree with Big Baby.

SMDH

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Sautee,

Yeah, but so did Acie, at least to me…

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nire,

From the little I’ve seen of JC2 he looks more confident than I’ve ever seen Teague, or Acie look.

But I don’t see PG in his future, IMO.

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O’B,

Agreed, as usual.

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Nire ,

Point taken…that may work in Teague’s favor (the offense not needing him to be a pure or traditional pg).

Sautee ,

So far, yes indeed (passes the eye test).

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NUNNA,
Thanks for refreshing that old AH question. Sounds like he “didn’t know” if he would get the chance to play more alongside Zaza..”we’ll see”. Another example of comfusion about roles under Woody.

Big Ray,
Echo your posts that Boston won fewer games during the season, but were READY come playoff time. Ken S posted eloquently how we often had leads in the first half last year yet lost those leads in the second half when Woody stayed with the same 6 guys. Same ISO. Same old same. Worn out bodies lead to worn out minds. Big Baby is the prototype example. Boston sat vets to let him play late in the season. When Boston needed him during playoffs, he was a monster. We needed juice during the second round, and none was available. We DID NOT DEVELOP the bench. Some say our bench was inadaquate. Well, perhaps some guys were substandard…but if people don’t think they are going to play, they don’t keep their heads in the game. Professionals SHOULD…I agree. But, these are people, and it’s the coach’s role to use people skills to keep minds in the game. Use the bench or lose the bench. Woody lost them with his stubborness,..unwillingess to sacrafice wins to get reserves key minutes. Anyone who understands team dynamics gets this. If I had a nickle for every “Duh” Woody expression of disbelief, I’d buy the blog some bling.

IE: Braves lose Chipper for rest of year yet STILL have a chance to win. Cox has USED his bench, even the 24-25 guys. The bench is READY.

Remember JJ complaining about needing help. I think the lack of bench help contributed to his weak play at the end of the year. Worn down bodies lead to worn down minds.

Oh, and one more thing. Drew was one heck of a talented point guard. He’s been a coach for a long time. He’s no rookie at basketball theory. If he thinks Jordan Crawford will be a starter one day, bet on it. Remember too, that Crawford fell in draft order due to questions about his character. He found a team of high character guys. If he buys into Drew and the good character guys around him, he could flower. He absolutely must give Crawford some minutes in the first 20 games, if for no other reason to find out if JC1 is expendable come trade deadline when another piece could become available due to teams williing to reshuffle.

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NUNNU,

I think that goes back to Woody. How many times did he say one thing during the offseason, but not follow through during the season? Or he would say something before a game, but not follow through during the game?

Instead, he always had an excuse.

One of my favorite lines from “Remember the Titans” is when one of the players told the team captain “attitude reflects leadership”. And the Hawks never had the required leadership (on the court, or on the sidelines).

I think Drew will do a better job with leadership off the court, and I think Horford is more prepared to lead on the court. And as a result, I think the Hawks will win more road games this year.

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Any notions thatthe Hawks can win less and go further (like the Celtics) is wishful thinking. The Celtics were a great road teamduring the season, had the pedigree of a champion and found themselves healthy at the perfect time of the season. Add in an experienced head coach capable of pushing the right buttons at the right time and you have a magical run. Oh, and throw in a Cavs team that became unglued (for mysterious reason). If the notion is that we can win fewer games and then make a Celtics-type run, then we should also wish for a mid-season trade that sends Jamal and Bibby to the Jazz for Deron Williams.

Winning less and going further is possible, but let’s not confuse possible for probable.

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I know that the economy is bad throughout the country, but Detroit is clearly in a worse situation than Atlanta. And yet, folk are lining up to pursue purchasing the Detroit Pistons. In a seemingly depressed market with customers that likely have little disposable income, there are still suitors for the team.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20100813/SPORTS0102/8130384/1127/George-Postolos–Tom-Gores-among-candidates-to-purchase-%20Pistons

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On the Pistons:

1. The Pistons are perceived as a winning brand with global market.

2. The Pistons are loved and heavily supported in Detroit and in Michigan.

On the Hawks:

1. The Hawks are not perceived as a positive brand being, on the contrary, the constant target of derogatory remarks in the press and by the fans.

2. The Hawks don’t have a strong following nor support within ATL and Georgia.

The above makes the Pistons’ franchise a sought after asset and a good investment and the Hawks a non interesting investment.

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CBSSportsline seems to be doing the best job of providing information on labor negotiations. So what do you all think, which league is more likely to have a labor stoppage, NBA or NFL? While I hope neither, I think the NFL is the most likely.

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/23851350?tag=comBlogEntryListCnt;entry23851350

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Take this Job and Shove it!

Astro Joe

I say the NBA.

The NFL is already already stacked to the ceiling in favor of the owners.
With the Franchise Tags being a weapon of “No Way Out!”
And the contracts being “Un-Guaranteed” and Performance Based (as they should be – IMHO), along with strict substance abuse regulations (a good thing)
…… and …. and …

I can’t imagine what else the NFL would need, however, I could see where the players might want some concessions there.

The NBA on the other hand, will want more pieces of the pie that I admit has to pretty large. They players will not give in easily, they like their life styles and will not go away quietly and without resistance.

Pay Cuts? I think I Not?

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I still say that it is hard to win fewer games, thereby obtaining a tougher 1st round match-up (and possibly on the road) and then assume that the 2nd round is a given. That requires a bit of a leap of faith.

Vava, Drew’s offense won’t likely keep us from doing better next season. How’s that for cautious optimism on the overall pending season?

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Melvin, 50 wins should be the minimum number of games won. Are there exceptions? Sure, go out and win 21+ road games and I’d be okay with <50 wins. But at a 5,000 foot level, 50 wins is the baseline (IMO).

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Dr. Mary, that’s why I think the NFL will have their stoppage, because it seems like there is less for the payers to give back, but that won’t keep the owners from locking them out.

Interesting to read that the players recognize the problems of long-term contracts for unproductive players… maybe they can have the opposite of a franchise label in the NBA… the Vampire Tag… for players who are sucking the life out of a franchise and the team’s ability to field a competitive team inside a hard-cap rule. Every year, a team could use 1 Vampire Tag to rid themselves of a player who exceeds a pre-determined percent of the team’s overall payroll. It would actually lead to more players getting higher salaries (as owners would be more willing to risk the gamble) and it would essentially create more free agents (which seemingly drives up average player salaries). And the owners get a an annual “do-over” card and fans don’t have to watch Eddie Curry rob them of a chance to watch a better product on the court.

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Nope, Rogers Cup

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AJ,

I figured you would be doing back flips over Drew’s announcement that Teague would have to “beat Bibby out” in order to start. But not a word from you yet.

Are you so disenchanted with the hire that you can’t give him props for doing EXACTLY what you argued all last year?

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Childress said many times that he didn’t like the role the Hawks slotted him in. In some interviews he indicated that he simply felt that players were held to different standards, some that he didn’t like coming off the bench (or at least feeling like he wouldn’t be given a chance to earn a starting role), and some that he didn’t feel like he got the respect he deserved from the players and coaches. I can’t post all the links at once lest the blog monster eat it, but I’ll start a few one-at-a-time:

http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2010/6/22/1530047/the-josh-childress-atlanta-hawks

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http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index.php/topic/268819-gamenight-the-next-good-ex-hawk/page__fromsearch__1

“To be honest, the opportunity to play will be important,” says Childress about what he would be looking for as a free agent. “That’s something that will be my main factor—where I can play the most.”

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Sautee, I kind of think the choice was fairly obvious. I’m the guy who said last season that Teague likely wasn’t playing much because he couldn;t “earn it” in practice sessions. And there is no reason to believe that anything has changed since then.

Drew has said plenty of “right things”. I’m looking forward to seeing a more diverse offense, Smith closer to the basket and line-ups that force the competition to respond to our scheme. And mostly, I’m looking for another 50+ win season from the same roster and a competent head coach.

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OB, I think a coach on the last year of his contract plays the guys who will most likely get him another contract. And in 2011-12, I suspect that Drew will do the same. This year, he could play Jason Collins at PG… but the following year, I expect self-preservation to rule the day.

One more thing, these are NBA players. I suspect that 98% of NBA players have a stretch to prove that they are worthy of staying (and playing) in the league. I’d imagine that a “mix tape” could be made of Adam Morrison, but that doesn’t mean he deserved consistent playing time in the plast few years.

But mostly, it matters not. The new head coach has stated that dude isn’t worthy (yet) of starting and I have not doubts that the new coach is exactly right.

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O’Brien,

I’m sorry, but Teague is several light years behind Dragic in talent. It’s not close. I watched Dragic before he got to the NBA, and he has court vision, shooting ability, and court awareness on both ends that Teague can only dream of. They both needed some maturity, but I can’t help but laugh when people compare the two. It’s not close, and it never was.

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Nire,

I’m not saying teague is as talented as dragic. But even when dragic had bad games early on, his coach stuck with him. One reason being he probably knew he would be needed in the playoffs.

AJ,

Obviously its all opinionated, but as bad as bibby looked at times, I can’t imagine teague looking worse in practice.

And I didn’t Think teague was ready to start last year (or this year). But when bibby was struggling, and the offense was struggling, teague did not even get a look.

Woody said he Would bring teague along slowly, and what happened? The owner said he didnt think teague was used properly, and now woody is out of a job.

I trust drew will find a balance between bringing teague along slowly, but still finding PT for him .

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* riddled with many gaffes …

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Nire,

I just had a chance to look at your links. Those articles are written from the writers point of view with not many (if any) direct quotes from Childs. As for the one quote you reference from Childs in your at 2:19pm, you left out his next statement that he wanted to re-sign with the Hawks.

““Hopefully that will be Atlanta,” continued Josh. “but this is a business, and you gotta play it by ear. For this year, I am going to do whatever I have to do to help my team win in Atlanta.””

Also, one of the articles pointed of that he had agreed to sign with the Hawks at 6yr/33 mil contract but was told wait on Smoove. A point that me, Doc and others made several times before.

“In the end, he had the well reported 5 yr, 33 million dollar offer and accepted it, only to be told to hold on. For a player that had already held on for too long (in his mind—and perception is reality), it was too much and he took his game overseas.”

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Melvin,

It’s pretty hilarious how you post quotes that contradict stuff you’ve said in the past and then act like it supports your position. I’m done talking about this with you. Your mind got made up about this as soon as Chill signed in Greece.

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KW, Jordan Farmar has some of those same athletic qualities AND he received consistent playing time from one of the top 3 coaches in the past 20 years. Sometimes, the difference between greatness and goodness is entirely up to the individual player and his personal discipline, determination and Bball IQ. Let’s see if Teague has the work ethic and IQ now that Drew will afford him every opportunity.

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richbrave, I read that McGee was diagnosed with asthma and has been able to improve his conditioning now that he is being treated for the issue. Strange how a guy could have access to good medical treatment at a Div IA university and still not have that problem diagnosed early in his college career. I read that Javale grew another inch and has put on some muscle. Who knows, now that he is receiving the right meds for his condition, dude may be ready to break-out. Wizards will have a lean year (or two) ahead but they may have some nice cornerstones to build a successful team for the long-run.

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doc, yeah, I heard Pollack tell that story the other day on the radio. Scary stuff. I recall one of my friends from high school being knocked out in the 1st quarter and returning to play safety during the middle part of the 3rd quarter. Of course, we didn’t know any better than to cheer his return (as opposed to pelt the coach with the nasty burgers we ate during the games).

Back to Javale, should we assume that they don’t administer those lung-capacity type tests during the combines? Not only should the colleges perform exams on their student-athletes, but I would assume that before a team invests a few million on a player, that they conduct a battery of tests that provides the appropriate medical due diligence. Is it possible that the asthma just “popped up”? I assume not, but it seems really bizarre that somewhere between college, the combines and the first few seasons in DC, no one knew that dude had a respiratory issue. I guess they were too busy measuring his wingspan,standing reach and vertical leap, huh? Who cares if he’s out of breath after 2 trips up.down the court… dude is long and athletic. Scary for the players and DUMB for the teams.

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“………Wizards will have a lean year (or two) ahead but they may have some nice cornerstones to build a successful team for the long-run……..” ASTRO JOE

Ala HAWKS JOE. That appears to be TED LEONSIS” modus operendi. Stay bad until you get three or so lottery picks, back-fill with a few players already on the roster; add a couple of medium priced FA’s and roll.

McGEE has grown up and out. I understand he’s 7′1″ and 245-55 now. His reach has added about two more inches as if it wasn’t already prodigious. You know he played little h.s. or college ball. He’ll be 25 or so before he really comes into his own. The young man’s got a great deal to learn while his body’s finishing the growing process.

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vava, if that’s the case, we should have kept Solo and put him on the asthma treatment plan.

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doc,

I knew more or less that the steroids are a crude (short term) treatment form for asthma.

that was not the point (saying that they were a good treatment).

my guess is that with the asthma treatment “made official and approved by the league” any positive test emerging from the use of prohibited substances which may be found in asthma treatments that are listed as PED will be covered…

As for Ritalin for attention deficit disorder, I already thought that maybe we could unlock the beast inside RandMo with it… we just need someone to provide the diagnose…

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For anyone that paid for the Summer Broadband League Pass, they have included all of last years games to the Archive. (but I can’t get to the Summer League games for some reason.) Just watched one of the Charlotte games which Bibby and JJ sat out. The guys looked terrible in the first half, down by 20, but made it a game in the 4th. Jeff played a lot in the 4th and looked really good. Also watched most of the Cleveland game that Jeff played in and wasn’t that impressed with his game, even though he’s stats were great. Looking at those games and the summer league games, he’s definitely improved. I don’t think he’s taken the starting spot from Bibby yet, but if he keeps improving he should by at least the middle of the season.

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No true center

Yeah, except for that All-Star.

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