The mind of Al Horford
Can anyone truly claim to know what Hawks center Al Horford is thinking? Maybe those closest to him, but then again, maybe even they do not know how he views himself on the basketball court. Of course, that isn’t going to stop us from assuming, presuming, speculating, and generally pontificating about it.
Does Al think he’s a PF or a Center?
The debate that’s been going on nearly since he came into the NBA has been whether or not Al Horford is a power forward or a center. Many experts and pundits call him an undersized center, but that’s not the same as calling him a power forward. In fact, while many claim Horfod is not playing where he’s supposed to be, they also laud him for doing the job as well as he has. There are so many examples of this, perhaps none any more apparent (and interesting) than Dime Magazine, who names him to their top ten in a list that is comprised of who they think was a top 10 center in 2010. Here’s the kicker – the list is not a list of top 10 guys at center in the NBA. It’s a list of the top 10 performers at the position of center in the NBA, college, and high school for the year of 2010. While it may be one man’s (or a group working for a magazine) opinion, it still spells good marks for a guy they turn right around and essentially say is a power forward who deserves a big raise. Clear as muddy water, huh…
But how does Al see himself? That question has hardly been asked of Horford until recently, most notably after this past NBA postseason. The fact is, the man has not had a whole lot to say about it, and none of it seems to be volunteered. Al has done his job on the court , where he embraced the role of starting center and (as we all know) earned a nod to the all-star game.
The Evidence
Here’s the funny part, and I have to repeat it - Al hasn’t had all that much to say on the subject, as most of the quotes I can find on it are one-liners or otherwise very short. And in some cases, the information has been so much baseless conjecture that it couldn’t be trusted. When in doubt, always go back to local info, right?
When Hawks beat writer Michael Cunningham caught up with Al, this is what popped out of his mouth, presumably in response to a question:
“I’m fine with [center] but my natural position is obviously the four,” he said.
Cunnginham bumped into “The Boss” again later, and this time a little bit more perspective leaked out:
” ‘We need to get another big guy, another center, that’s able to help myself and Josh out,” he said. “We need to have someone to come in and have an impact. I think that is the position we need if we want to be any type of contender in the East….I don’t have a problem splitting time [at center], [ Al said]. I played a little four last year with Zaza in the game at the same time and I thought that was good. I know I am going to still play the five….I think we create a lot of problems when have an athletic lineup with Josh at the four, me at the five and Marvin at the three, [ Al said ] I think we create serious problems for people. I think that is one of our strengths as a team is we are so versatile.’ ”
The latest snippet, provided by avid Hawks fans Drmaryb and Astro Joe reveals a tad more perhaps, or not, depending on how you look at it:
“…’That’s what I’ve been all my life,” Horford said about the proposed shift toward PF.’ “
Needless to say, this isn’t any and every link I can find on this, so feel free to add anything you please in your posts, especially if it sheds more light on the subject (or anything related). But there we have it in black and white. Now….
What Does it Mean? What Conclusions do you draw?
On the one hand, it’s almost like Horford agrees with so many others in that he’s out of position at center. On the other hand, his actions on the court seem to speak louder than any words he or anyone else has spoken or typed. So, let’s ask (and answer) some questions.
1) Does Al truly prefer playing the 4 over the 5?
Well, he has to be happy about making the all-star team while playing at center, but he may feel that he is limited by playing almost exclusively at the position. He may feel that he has more to give, and would be more able to do that at the power forward position. What we haven’t heard as of yet is WHYAl thinks he is a natural power forward, as opposed to center. Unless I’ve missed something, there hasn’t been an opinion on that front from anybody, let alone Horford himself. Most attribute it to a height and weight ratio. As has been proven though, one cannot go on those two measurables alone.
2) Is this “new move” to play him more at PF more driven by Head Coach Larry Drew, or by Al Horford himself?
Keeping in mind that we still don’t quite yet know Larry Drew the Head Coach, I’ll err on the side of this being Drew’s idea. Horford is an unselfish player who doesn’t make demands like some in the League. And yet, I can recall him making comments during the season about providing more if he gets the ball more. Again, not something that seemed selfish to me at all, as Al had a point – the Hawks needed a threat in the post, and outside of Josh Smith (when he wasn’t getting distracted by wide-open 20-foot jumpers), they didn’t have it. My guess is that Larry Drew has wanted Horford more involved in the offense for some time, and now that he’s the head coach, we’re going to see more than the “12 or 13 points” that former coach Mike Woodson wanted out of him. Bottom line: Larry Drew may see more offensive potential in Horford than most, and playing him more at PF as a way to realize that potential.
3) What happens if Al ends up playing more center and less power forward than planned, out of necessity?
Horford has already remarked that he thinks the team presents quite a few matchup problems for opposing teams when he, Josh, and Marvin are in the game at their current respective positions. But he also talks of needing some help in the form of another center. Here’s the good thing, though: those short one-liner answers to the question are frequently met with the assertion that he KNOWS he will be playing center, and does not have a problem with it. I don’t think we need to worry at all about his mindset or how he sees himself position-wise until he starts talking and playing with a similar attitude as Chris Bosh or Amare Stoudamire (two big-time post players who don’t want anything to do with playing the center position), something I do not expect him to do. Then again, the day he starts putting up numbers anything like theirs while playing as a power forward would be the day the Hawks better get serious about adding a quality player at center who meshes well with Horford (translation: a minimum contract guy that doesn’t get signed until late July or August isn’t going to cut it anymore).
4) Playing more power forward, is this on offense or defense, or both? Where is Josh Smith when this happens?
Again, I’m guessing here. Before answering, I just about have to ask another question- but I’ll get to that in a second. I think it will be Zaza who plays center while Al is at the 4 spot, but that will depend on both offensive and defensive matchups. Larry Drew will probably go about this this the smart way by experimenting in training camp, practice, preseason, and in regular season games, to an extent. In other words, he will try different combinations of Al and somebody else at center, in an effort to create, exploit, and change matchups as the game dictates. Or, he will strike first by trying to dictate to opposing defenses. Either way, it should be interesting. As for the second half of that question, it’s a topic we always seem to try and avoid, but just can’t get away from.
If Al is playing the PF spot, particularly on offense…then Josh Smith can only be at one of three places – center, on the bench, or at (you guessed it) small forward. The former isn’t all that likely, and the latter will most definitely add fuel to a fire that has been burning for a while in blogdome.
5) Who will play center while Horford is playing power forward?
This comes down to matchups, in the end. Matchups on both the offensive and defensive sides of the ball. There will be times where Al is playing the 4 on offense, but playing the 5 on defense. Or vice versa, perhaps. Against bigger and stronger teams, I’m thinking we will see Pachulia or Collins at the 5. Of course, this also depends on what kind of players the opposing team has at power forward, as Al may or may not have trouble covering some of the quicker power forward types in the league, especially the ones who like to drift out to the perimeter and do their damage there. If he is in the game against a team that features this type of player, he may be better served playing the 5 on defense. Also, don’t be surprised to see Josh Powell get some time at the 5 against certain teams. If the free agent forward can hold his own against some of the less rugged big men, and the matchup is favorable, look for Drew to try this combination.
Ok, Your Turn…
Same five questions. YOUR answers.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
296 comments Add your comment
newkid
August 10th, 2010
5:21 pm
AJ, the thing with Cleveland was to be 15% rather than 100%, so who knows. To your point though, a cat would have to be REALLY freakish – and a bit whacked – to agree to jump into bed WITH the ASG.
Rich
August 10th, 2010
6:48 pm
Great topic, Ray. This was a very interesting read. I’d just like to say that while it is fun to ponder about next season’s PF/C combination lineups and the mysteries of Al Horford’s mind, he is the least of my worries when it comes to the team. Al is, in my opinion, the most reliable and mature player on the entire Hawks roster. I know that regardless of what position he is asked to play (while it appears he is a bit more comfortable at the 4), he will excel at it and become more and more effective. This guy has all the physical talent necessary to be a great player and the fundamental skills and work ethic to put it all together.
With that being said, my concern is who will be on the floor with Al, if he plays PF in some lineups. I’m not a big fan of Collins at all. He is a big body on the court, but honestly, I think he would be best suited for very specific situations (e.g. taking fouls against the larger, more physical centers when Al and Zaza are in foul trouble). I like Zaza as a back-up center and respect what he brings to the table, but I’m a bit worried about having him play heavier minutes at center, on the defensive end of the floor. He’s a solid rebounder and has serviceable quickness for a center, but he’s no-where near as effective as Al, defensively, in 1 vs. 1 situations. On the plus side, a lot of the Centers in this league are not very impressive on the offensive end, so the Hawks can get away with gambling with either Zaza or Powell at center, occasionally, considering both guys have the girth to hold their own in the post.
One other thing, in terms of where Josh Smith should be when Al is playing the 4, I would say, definitely on the bench. From a defensive standpoint, both Marvin and JJ are more effective than Josh on the perimeter. Also, offensively, it’s always a good idea to keep josh away from the 3 point line. The only thing I don’t like about giving Zaza, Collins, and possibly Powell greater minutes than they had in the past is that the line-up with features Josh and Al together is typically the most effective, and you start to lose a bit on both ends of the floor when you take one of them off of the floor.
With all of that being said, I think LD should try out different combinations and adapt to whichever is most effective for the given situation. However, he may find that sticking with the traditional line-up that Woodson was using, perhaps without bibby at the point, may be most effective. You have to keep in mind, that outside of Dwight Howard, the Hawks really didn’t have a prominent problem with any of the league’s other big men. Also, in terms of the rebounding woes from the previous years, much of that can and will be corrected by avoiding the switching defense, which will allow Josh and Al to have proper rebounding position in the post. Of course, there will be certain situations where a line-up featuring maybe Al at the 4, or Josh at the 4, and someone else at the 5 will be most effective, but those are situations where LD should adapt as necessary. As someone mentioned earlier, this team has a lot of versatility, and can shift line-ups as necessary to gain the proper advantage.
Rich
August 10th, 2010
6:54 pm
Great topic, Ray. This was a very interesting read. I’d just like to say that while it is fun to ponder about next season’s PF/C combination lineups and the mysteries of Al Horford’s mind, he is the least of my worries when it comes to the team. Al is, in my opinion, the most reliable and mature player on the entire Hawks roster. I know that regardless of what position he is asked to play (while it appears he is a bit more comfortable at the 4), he will excel at it and become more and more effective. This guy has all the physical talent necessary to be a great player and the fundamental skills and work ethic to put it all together.
With that being said, my concern is who will be on the floor with Al, if he plays PF in some lineups. I’m not a big fan of Collins at all. He is a big body on the court, but honestly, I think he would be best suited for very specific situations (e.g. taking fouls against the larger, more physical centers when Al and Zaza are in foul trouble). I like Zaza as a back-up center and respect what he brings to the table, but I’m a bit worried about having him play heavier minutes at center, on the defensive end of the floor. He’s a solid rebounder and has serviceable quickness for a center, but he’s no-where near as effective as Al, defensively, in 1 vs. 1 situations. On the plus side, a lot of the Centers in this league are not very impressive on the offensive end, so the Hawks can get away with gambling with either Zaza or Powell at center, occasionally, considering both guys have the girth to hold their own in the post.
One other thing, in terms of where Josh Smith should be when Al is playing the 4, I would say, definitely on the bench. From a defensive standpoint, both Marvin and JJ are more effective than Josh on the perimeter. Also, offensively, it’s always a good idea to keep josh away from the 3 point line. The only thing I don’t like about giving Zaza, Collins, and possibly Powell greater minutes than they had in the past is that the line-up with features Josh and Al together is typically the most effective, and you start to lose a bit on both ends of the floor when you take one of them off of the floor.
To be continued…
Sautee
August 10th, 2010
8:25 pm
K-dogg,
about this: “We can stop using this all-star excuse too b/c for one aint but about 3 centers in the east worth making the team and last year had the nets not been God awful Lopez would have made it over Big Al!!”
I’ll politely disagree. If sportswriters were naming the reserves for the All-Star team, I’d tend to agree, but the reserves were named by the Head Coaches.
I just don’t believe that the coaches are as easily swayed by the number of wins that a particular team had. If they WERE wouldn’t Shaq, whose team by far had the most cumulative wins by February, have likely made it before Horford?
So let’s disagree on this one.
Sautee
August 10th, 2010
8:28 pm
And K-dogg, believe me I really like Lopez, and think he has one of the highest upsides of the young centers in the league.
Ken Strickland
August 10th, 2010
10:28 pm
I believe JCollins was signed last yr for the express purpose of defending Shaq and DHoward. He actually did a very good job against Shaq, when given a chance, and had some success against Howard, when the refs allowed him to get close to him.
If losing weight and getting into better condition can help him regain some of the he once had, he’ll be a good rehire. He was a very good defender when he was the Nets starting center, and I don’t think he’s forgotten how to defend. I think LDrew intends to utilize him more, and wants him to be more mobile and be able to defend the position, not just one or two specific players.
Clyde
August 11th, 2010
4:03 am
The Hawks will go 46-36 and will be the 6th seed in the east.
vava74
August 11th, 2010
7:01 am
To be honest, my expectations is that the Hawks make it to the playoffs and be competitive in the second round.
So, 46-36 would be fine to me provided that I saw them be balling like a team instead of just a bunch of guys looking like they were assembled as a team 20 minutes prior to the game.
I think this group could become a real force by the end of the season when all new concepts mesh and things fall into place (including Teague’s game).
I rather lose home court advantage and finally have a competitive game with good and varied offensive and defensive schemes than the paper dragon we had last year.
O'Brien
August 11th, 2010
7:33 am
I think the Hawks will have the 4th best record in the East (but win less than 50 games).
I think they win their first round matchup (possibly against the Central division winner), and lose in the second round. But I think they will be more competitive in the second round, and will win at least 1 second round game.
vava74
August 11th, 2010
8:29 am
Any position between 3rd and the 6th seed is irrelevant since we should be able to be competitive enough to win the first round match up regardless of home court advantage.
My forecast is that MIA, ORL and BOS will occupy the first 3 slots. This means that if we finish 6th, we would match up against BOS.
I like our chances against that geriatric posse.
If we finish 4th or 5th we should match up against CHI which I think are perfectly beatable.
Astro Joe
August 11th, 2010
9:19 am
If the key to getting the owners to do more than “slightly” increase player salaries is to increase revenue, then the Hawks need to host at least 6 playoff games. That has been what they delivered the past 2 seasons. A more fan-friendly offense coupled with the same number of home playoff games should result in a boost in ticket sales.
But it is a sad commentary that after a 53 win season and the changing of our head coach, we’d accept less regular season wins and the appearance of playing better in the 2nd round (up to a win or two). Given the utter incompetence of the previous head coach, I would have thought that 6+ wins and no less than a 7-game 2nd round series would have represented the minimum expectation, especially since the roster is virtually identical.
vava74
August 11th, 2010
9:44 am
Astro,
The conference and the division got tougher.
A new system always takes time to kick in.
We are bound to have more injuries than last year.
All the above make it difficult to get more wins than last year (not out of the question, but difficult).
Woody’s 53 wins were – unfortunately – a paper dragon.
Let’s hope that Drew’s work fructifies at the end of the season and through the playoffs giving us at least a 7 game second round series.
Hopefully with a win, but if not, at least an honorable defeat instead of the ludicrous showing we had last year.
Woody was the main culprit since even if the players did gave up on him and chemistry collapsed, the ultimate responsible is always the coach. What happened was the corollary of his incompetence.
Melvin
August 11th, 2010
9:51 am
Even the Hawks PR guy (Authur Trice) is disappoint that they didnt sign Shaq. From his twitter:
I must say, and @ajchawks and @SekouSmithNBA knows, I can’t watch my dude @the_real_shaq, and I’m not happy about it
O'Brien
August 11th, 2010
9:55 am
AJ,
Boston won less games than we did last year, but they made the NBA finals, so its not just about regular season wins (as Woody found out).
Sure, we would love to win more than 53 regular season games. But after seeing us go 0-8 in the second round under Woody, who would complain about Drew if his team goes 48-34, and then 2-4 in the second round, while being competitive in all 6 games?
And if the Chemistry is better, and the players appreciate Drew’s accountability, dont you think they would call the season an improvement over Woody?
And like vava said, if the games are competitive in the second round, then the Hawks will have a chance to make it to a game 7, where anything can happen.
Melvin
August 11th, 2010
9:58 am
OB,
If the Hawks finished behind the Heat and Magic. Wouldn’t it be impossible for them to be the 4th seed according to how the current playoffs format award the top 4 seeds (3 are divison winners and the best record of the remaining teams)?
Astro Joe
August 11th, 2010
10:39 am
Yeah, sure. The Celtics were decimated with injuries in the regular season and a strong playoff run was possible in large part because of their health AND championship experience. If the Hawks finish in the 5th seed (or lower), then you are asking them to do something we haven’t seen before, win big games on the road against a favorite. All I know is that there was a lot of gnashing of teeth regarding under utilization of the bench, poor defensive schemes, iso-heavy offense, poor 4th quarter production, a Finals-caliber roster, we could have won more games, blah, blah, blah, whine, whine, whine. Suddenly the hard numbers give way to a subjective evaluation of “well, we lost better than we lost previously”.
Hey, I support the dismissal of Woody, but this doesn’t feel like an upgrade and losing better in the same round doesn’t feel like anything more than an empty moral victory.
Chicago is learning a new system/coach, are their fans expecting the same season? How about Philly fans? Will the Raptors or Cavs be better than last season? Very, very doubtful. Some teams go up and some teams go down. The total wins in the conference may increase some, but not likely a lot.
Let’s face it, we’re treading water indefinitely, until Sund decides to break-up this magical CORE or our minimum wage coach delivers a near maximum wage coaching performance. Or, the ASG use the MLE to improve the playing rotation. Until one of those things happen, we must take solace in a free-flowing offense that may produce fewer wins. Style, not substance.
O'Brien
August 11th, 2010
10:59 am
Melvin,
You’re right. Under the current format, the Hawks would be the 5th seed. However, if their record is better than the 4th seed (Chicago, for example), then I think the Hawks would have home-court advantage against them.
AJ,
Losing better in the same round is also a sign of progress (no matter how minimal it might seem), especially in LD’s first year.
However, I agree with you in that I dont understand the fascination with the magical CORE (what have they won?), and I dont agree with blaming everything that went wrong on Woody.
He was a big part of the problem, and his exit was long overdue (imo). But it just seems to me that the message the ASG and Sund is telling the players is that they did nothing wrong. It was all Woody’s fault.
And why not give LD more weapons to help him get to the NBA finals, since they believe this core is good enough? Oh that’s right, they have not made a deep playoff run, and they dont rank high enough in attendance.
vava74
August 11th, 2010
11:08 am
AJ,
There is nothing more “free-flowing” and unstructured than our ISO happy offense last year:
Ball crossed the half court, JJ (or Jamal, or occasionally Al or Josh) gets it and then he free flowed himself into a tough shot.
Some went in (many actually), some did not, whilst the rest of the team just stood around looking at a distance and shaking their heads.
I can coach any NBA team with that type of offense…
EVERYONE is saying the opposite about Drew’s offense: all reports have been saying that it takes time to learn due to its complexity.
Those reports alone are enough to overrule a “free flowing” qualification.
Like always you are using your own personal perception about certain individuals to distort evident realities.
Last year you pointed out that our offense was a lot more varied by the end of the season and that we could see improvements on our coaching where no one else could see them: we just had more players going ISO. All on account of your appreciation for Woody.
Now, you are clearly biased against Drew because he is “minimum wage” and due to this you are starting to christen his offense as “free flowing” before you even see 1 minute of game time.
Astro Joe
August 11th, 2010
11:20 am
Vava, I prefer wins over style. I was one of Woody’s biggest detractors several years ago, but couldn’t get over the fact that the team was improving in the win column. Likewise, if D’Antoni took over this squad and delivered 45 wins, should I stand up and applaud the team for scoring 120 points/game? Sorry, I’m interested in wins. Nothing in your 11:08 addressed the bottom line… winning games. I prefer substance over style.
Astro Joe
August 11th, 2010
11:25 am
Vava, and in my vernacular, free-flowing is a references, motion, fluidity, you know… free flowing like water. It doesn’t mean chaotic or undisciplined. It implies movement (which I thought was at the heart of many complaints about the previous offfense).
Astro Joe
August 11th, 2010
11:44 am
Maybe the Hawks can start a new marketing campaign (similar to the Falcons with their “Rise Up” theme):
“When winning more games each season isn’t enough, it’s time to LOSE BETTER. When ownership refuses to use the MLE it’s time to LOSE BETTER. When the GM insists that the core is worthy of staying together, let’s LOSE BETTER. When the absolute best coach available for our team was sitting on our bench in an assistant’s chair for the past 6 years, let’s LOSE BETTER. Sure, the division is better. The conference may be better. But we didn’t let that scare us, we plan to LOSE BETTER. Sameness is integral with helping us to LOSE BETTER. Regular season wins are unimportant, when the playoffs come, we want to LOSE BETTER. Come on down to the Highlight Factory and cheer your Atlanta Hawks as we LOSE BETTER.”
Instead of Samuel Jackson as the pitch man, maybe they can hire Tito Jackson.
Melvin
August 11th, 2010
12:03 pm
Astro,
I had to walk away from my computer to roll on the floor to laugh at your 11:44 post…
Astro Joe
August 11th, 2010
12:06 pm
Melvin, I wish the non-Atlanta residents could see the Sam Jackson/Falcons commercial so that they could better appreciate my suggested marketing campaign. I can even hear the choir in the background… “LOSE BETTER”.
Astro Joe
August 11th, 2010
1:46 pm
A 4-team, late summer trade is brewing. Pacers may finally land a quality PG.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5455472
Astro Joe
August 11th, 2010
1:53 pm
OH NO, we’re losing our primary college scout.
Blazers general manager Rich Cho will name Bill Branch and Steve Rosenberry as co-assistant general manager’s, reports The Columbian.
Branch has officially signed his contract, while Rosenberry’s deal is almost done.
Branch was Oklahoma City’s director of professional player personnel and Rosenberry was the director of pro personnel/college scouting for Atlanta.
O'Brien
August 11th, 2010
3:04 pm
From the trade article;
For the Hornets, while moving Collison leaves the team without a credible backup for Chris Paul, the addition of Ariza gives them a young, athletic wing entering his prime. .
I wonder if they would have taken Marvin as the centerpiece of a Hawks deal?
As for the Pacers, I wonder if Larry Bird is under pressure, because what has the team done in terms of wins and losses the last 3 years.
Joe Dumars should be under pressure too.
Melvin
August 11th, 2010
3:04 pm
ESPN.com sources: Hornets and Raptors have also agreed to a separate trade that will send Julian Wright to Toronto for Marco Belinelli…
In other NBA news, the Hawks release a statement today. “We like our core of players”.
Astro Joe
August 11th, 2010
3:57 pm
LOL @ Melvin. If the Hawks could bring back Alan Henderson, they would.
Astro Joe
August 11th, 2010
4:10 pm
Brook Lopez, Troy Murphy and Travis Outlaw. That’s a very respectable front-court. Throw in the sharp-shooting Anthony Morrow and Devin Harris and suddenly, the Nets have a legit starting unit. If they stay healthy, and get good bench production from Farmar, Favors and Terrance Williams, they could possibly be in the mix for the #8 seed. But thern again, they do have a new coach, new system, new players and are in a tougher conference… so they may NOT see any improvement.
Melvin
August 11th, 2010
4:43 pm
Astro,
I think Terrence Williams will start over Morrow.
Big Ray
August 11th, 2010
5:10 pm
Rich ,
For some reason, the blog monster ate both of your post attempts. I have no idea why, but I rescued them both. Good points, by the way. Hope you hang around more often.
I agree that Al’s combination of athleticism and maturity is unparalleled on this team. I take that back, I think Joe Johnson matches him there in many ways, but passion may be the true difference. That and leadership intangibles. But that’s perhaps an argument of semantics.
I also agree that Zaza is not the one-on-one defender that Al is, but I think he’s better at that than he is help defense. In fact, his help defense is more likely to result in a foul. He’s also not likely to discourage anybody at the rim. I like Zaza a good deal, but if that’s how we’re going to roll at backup center (which is fine), then we MUST have a seriously rugged and defensively capable power forward off the bench. As it stands right now, we can only hope that Josh Powell is that guy. I haven’t seen much evidence showing that he is, and we haven’t made any other moves. Makes you wonder…
Big Ray
August 11th, 2010
5:14 pm
Melvin ,
I think Terrence Williams has the talent to start over Anthony Morrow. However, Morrow is a better shooter and a willing rebounder. The question is who is the better defender, and I’m thinking that is Williams. Here’s the thing: if Williams kicks that attitude he had last year (he was reportedly quite immature and troublesome for the coaching staff), he’ll be fine. If not, Morrow will be the guy. Here’s another thought: which of the two is more suited to playing the 2? And is Outlaw an incumbent starter?
The good news is that Williams will have all the help he needs (and then some) adjusting his attitude from the Little General. And if anybody thinks they have the starting SF spot all sewn up, they probably better think twice. Rookie Damion James will challenge for minutes as well.
While I’m still cool with Jordan Crawford as a draft pick, I did think James had a better shot at minutes than Crawford does, given the depth at the positions of SG and SF in Atlanta. Cest la vie…
Big Ray
August 11th, 2010
5:51 pm
Interesting trades. Here’s how I see it:
Pacers – Darren Collison instantly makes them potentially better. Better than 25-30 wins? Maybe , as these things take time. But he makes them better than they would have remained with TJ Ford and end-of-bench types. And, he’ll fit in because he gets to grow with guys like George and Stephenson. This team is built for the future, with Danny Granger the “elder statesman” of their proverbial core. Posey provides some experience on the floor and the locker room. He also provides some good defense if he can stay motivated. He may seek a way out of Indiana, however. You never know with veterans who have gotten a taste of runs into the playoffs, a place the Pacers are still highly unlikely to be next postseason. And…they’re gonna miss Murhpy, I don’t care what anybody says. Especially if Roy Hibbert continues to be as soft and slow as the giant Marshmallow Man on the first Ghost Busters movie (which is an insult to the Marshmallow Man).
Rockets – they could afford to move Ariza, who is a better role player than he is a starter/key piece. Lee is an infusion of youth who can help them score. He’ll probably do so from the bench, what with Shane Battier and Kevin Martin filling key roles in the starting lineup. Good enough to be a backcourt sixth man type, I think.
Raptors – Ehhh….Julian Wright won’t be any better there than he was in New Orleans, is my guess. We’ll see. But, he gives the Raps another SF prospect. One with frustrating potential.
Nets – Troy Murphy is a better rebounder than their starting center, and he can shoot from range. Not only does this take the pressure off of Lopez, it also takes the pressure off of Favors, who will get to grown into the starting role (assuming he is good enough to do so). Another winning move for the Nets.
Hornets – While the acquisition of Belinelli and Ariza probably don’t make CP3 want to go right out and sign an extension to stay in New Orleans for the next 3-5 years, he’ll probably endorse it publicly. Besides, he’ll probably be happy to see Ariza after missing his buddy Rasual Butler. Hornets are younger and cheaper. Just the way Shinn likes it.
niremetal
August 11th, 2010
8:22 pm
My take: The Pacers still suck, the Raptors still suck, the Nets still suck, the Hornets still will go as CP3 goes, and the Rockets better pray Battier stays healthy.
O'Brien
August 11th, 2010
8:34 pm
nire,
The Hornets better pray CP3 stays healthy too.
niremetal
August 11th, 2010
9:16 pm
O’Brien,
I think that was implied in “the Hornets still will go as CP3 goes.” They sucked last year with Collison as PG, and I found it beyond laughable that there were some people suggesting that the Hornets might view CP3 as expendable because Collison put up better-than-expected (but still mediocre) stats while he was out. Nevermind that the Hornets sucked during that period.
Collison ain’t bad, but I don’t see him as ever being in the All-Star discussion. He’s solid, but I don’t see much upside.
O'Brien
August 11th, 2010
10:06 pm
nire,
I didnt think collison was that bad last year (although i didnt see many hornets games). In fact, i thought he was somebody that could compete with teague for the starting job in the future.
Maybe i was just looking at numbers.
The interesting thing is if you are Chris Paul, are you thrilled by the moves? They traded posey and collison for ariza.
Plus, if and when he gets hurt, will he be forced to come back early because of no legit backup?
I think n.o. could have found a better deal. But what do I know? I am a armchair GM.
niremetal
August 11th, 2010
10:15 pm
O’Brien,
I wonder how much of the deal was management sending CP3 a clear signal that they will not consider trading him.
As for Collison/Teague…let’s just say that if Teague had played in NO last year and Collison here, I have a hunch we’d be having the same conversation but with the names inverted.
doc
August 11th, 2010
10:17 pm
clyde beginning to look like that to me as well.
vava74
August 12th, 2010
6:39 am
Astro,
Do you even read what you write?
“Vava, and in my vernacular, free-flowing is a references, motion, fluidity, you know… free flowing like water. It doesn’t mean chaotic or undisciplined. It implies movement (which I thought was at the heart of many complaints about the previous offfense).”
“free-flowing like water” – IS THERE ANYTHING MORE CHAOTIC and UNDISCIPLINED THAN HOW WATER FLOWS?
You don’t have any limits in finding undefensible ways to support your flimsy arguments.
Last year we had 4 or 5 set plays (maximum) which were used sparingly at best:
And I only remember 2:
A first quarter gig in which Bibby made a baseline cut, curled to the free throw line off a pick to hit a jumper (one per game max) and the play of the sideline inbounds pass which typically released Josh for a alley-hoop jam off a pick at the elbow.
How many times did we see the Hawks getting ZERO points out of time outs and “Woody’s plays”.
I bet I can get a good depiction of what Woody said during those time outs:
- “Al, you set a pick on the top of the key”
- “the rest of the guys just scramble”
- “Bibby, the inbounds pass goes to JJ who will be free (but he never was since everyone knew that the ball was going to him)”
- “JJ, when you get the rock, do your thing”
- “Bibby, if by any chance JJ is not free, get the ball to Jamal”
- “Jamal, did you hear that? If the rock goes to you, just do your thing”
And that was it.
Astro Joe
August 12th, 2010
9:39 am
Vava and 53 times during the last regular season Woody said to his team “good win”. How many times will Drew say that this season? I’m far more interested in wins than I am in points after a TO. I’ve never seen points-after-a timeout listed in the standings.
Hornets better go get a quality back-up PG. Any other player in the league who has missed this many games in his first 4-5 years would be labeled “injury prone”, but of course, we won’t say that about the legendary Chris Paul.
vava74
August 12th, 2010
9:56 am
Astro,
Keep it going. Always ducking and diving.
I am not sure how many wins will Drew manage to extract from this group, however, we all knew before the playoffs last year that those 53 wins were a paper dragon that would go up in smoke in the playoffs.
During the regular season, when you are moderately successful you need to start analyzing HOW YOU WIN and HOW YOU LOSE games. That will tell how playoffs will go.
Our losses came out of our COMPLETE inability to adjust on both Offense and Defense to what other teams were putting on the floor.
On offense, we failed to break simple zone defenses, failed to get JJ clean looks instead of having him go against 2 or 3 defenders at the time and, for instance, failed to make Howard come out of the paint, be in foul trouble and reduce his intimidation factor at the rim.
On defense, we failed to simply stop playing the switching D when we were clearly being beaten due to it and failed to defend the perimeter: many scrubs, semi-scrubs and average players had season or career bests from 3 point land against us.
Many games were lost during the 4th quarter with weak offensive outputs precisely when games turned into “playoff-crunchtime-mode”.
Anyone with an unbiased view on how we were faring knew we were going the wrong direction and there was no hope that Woody would evolve and “raise his game” when we lost in PHO and then at GS.
That was the precise moment in which I stopped believing and became a less emotionally involved spectator.
PS:
Another interesting factor which aided our record, beyond the fact that we were virtually injury free, is that we played a lot of playoff bound teams at the end of their respective away trips.
That alone handed to us in a silver platter some of the nice wins we got (at least we did not botched those opportunities): DEN, POR, LAL, UTH, … all played in ATL tired and worn out.
Astro Joe
August 12th, 2010
10:12 am
Vava, how is focusing on wins ducking? I’d suggest tthat focusing on anything other than wins is ducking. If a CEO focuses on anything other than the top 3-5 financial drivers, he would be ducking the priority of his business. I don’t want to hear about some new whiz bang product that the R&D group has come up with… there are many brilliant ideas that die between ideation and execution.
Playoff success is not strictly dependent on a less predictable offense (as many seem to believe). This team has yet to prove that they can win against the elite on the road. It would appear that there will be 6 quality teams in the East this season (Heat, Magic, Celtics, Bulls, Bucks and Hawks). If we don’t have home-court advantage in the 1st round, I don’t see any reason to naturally assume a 2nd round berth. Maybe we will see some “raod character” this coming season. But until then, I’m concerned that anything less than a 4th seed may result in a return to the 2008 playoffs.
doc
August 12th, 2010
10:47 am
vava that link didnt impress me especially when he started in on the jamal is a three, prob a typo that can blow by anybody(but cant stop anyone either i might add) but should be signed by the club now to an extension knowing we need to save money for al next year. it sounded like a sophomoric pr writing by the hawks.
this one is better for perspective:
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17062
again the first one kind of left me cold. anyway we are either gathering stem and stay where we are or rotting from within and going backwards. honestly new coach new system we should expect a backward step but improvement as the season goes on. if it goes in the other way instead of slow improvement, heaven forbid.
vava74
August 12th, 2010
11:06 am
doc,
that link is a “fan’s perspective”, not a professionally written piece.
It illustrates what I believe to be a fair and less emotional way of assessing our options.
I think that the reference to Jamal being able to play the 3 was either a typo or mental lapse caused by the fact that whilst he is on court, we can push JJ to the 3 slot.
Your link is indeed comforting and coming from a professional.
vava74
August 12th, 2010
11:41 am
Astro,
Ducking and diving:
You were wrongly dissing something that you have not seen yet and that has been reported as complex and structured. You called it “free-flowing”.
I criticized you for that.
You then presented an absurd explanation on what you considered “free-flowing” (already ducking and diving here).
I exposed your lame explanation and excuse.
You came back with a completely different conversation, talking about 53 wins (ducking and diving galore).
I expose your ducking and diving.
You question that but ducking and diving even more but wrongly reducing my commentaries to “varied offense = equals playoff competitiveness” when I clearly stated BOTH factors:
Offensive variation and Defensive variation adaptability as the cornerstones for BBall success.
More ducking and diving from your side…
Astro Joe
August 12th, 2010
11:54 am
Vava, I’m not going to argue with you what I meant by free-flowing. I already told you what I meant, if you choose not to believe me, there is very little need to debate it. I think Drew’s offense will be better than Woody’s, likely much beter. but will we do more than LOSE BETTER? That’s the only thing worht discussing (IMO).
niremetal
August 12th, 2010
1:08 pm
Come on, vava. You’ve been on the board long enough to know that Astro Joe lacks the capacity to address someone’s argument head-on.
doc
August 12th, 2010
1:56 pm
yeah vava, that is what i thought as well, though i didnt think he could really hold his own at this site. it the part about jamal was emotion speaking. dont we get plenty of comforters here like ken or detractors that say i cant be done? most say, wish there was more done here this summer as well as last summer and give their reasons. i really think they may miss an opportunity this year if the c’s get into trouble with injuries and age and the heat have a difficult time gelling or LD figures out the magic much like last year when they had a chance. if they had invested a bit more at the beginning i might think they could make a run for it if the distance between us and them’uns werent so great.
i am with nire that chills would fit here in this scheme. i also think a premium pay out to shaq tp play a role here would have benefitted us and enthused the fan base. just the same i think and have though k thomas would have been a good fit here for the last three years and remains a journeyman instead of us giving him a home here. i cant really blame the askg as the finances are to stay viable and i imagine they realize that there is little return on the investment in ticket sales to add seven to ten mil to the payroll to cover the expenditure, especially, in light of the three amigos.
still like our nucleus. unfortunately it is only seven to eight deep until someone shows their capability to coach them up to at least an eleven man roster or folks like teague and baby crawford show they have what it takes early in the season. this is all jousting bout nothing really as the true test comes in november. by mid december we will know if it is a real team or pretender.
Astro Joe
August 12th, 2010
2:14 pm
Tell me what I’m ducking? The offense will be better. Wonderful. Will it be Don Nelson Dallas Mavs better? Sactown with Bibby better? Nellie’s Warriors better? D’Antoni’s Suns better? If so, grand. I think that some of those teams made it to their respective conference finals at least once. I’ll take that. But if you truly believe that the ‘10-11 Hawks makes the ECF, well, send me what you’re smoking. Especially considering that many are predicting fewer wins (which likely leads to a lesser playoff seeding and a more challenging road). What else do I need to address regarding style and potentially little substance? Tee it up.