The mind of Al Horford
Can anyone truly claim to know what Hawks center Al Horford is thinking? Maybe those closest to him, but then again, maybe even they do not know how he views himself on the basketball court. Of course, that isn’t going to stop us from assuming, presuming, speculating, and generally pontificating about it.
Does Al think he’s a PF or a Center?
The debate that’s been going on nearly since he came into the NBA has been whether or not Al Horford is a power forward or a center. Many experts and pundits call him an undersized center, but that’s not the same as calling him a power forward. In fact, while many claim Horfod is not playing where he’s supposed to be, they also laud him for doing the job as well as he has. There are so many examples of this, perhaps none any more apparent (and interesting) than Dime Magazine, who names him to their top ten in a list that is comprised of who they think was a top 10 center in 2010. Here’s the kicker – the list is not a list of top 10 guys at center in the NBA. It’s a list of the top 10 performers at the position of center in the NBA, college, and high school for the year of 2010. While it may be one man’s (or a group working for a magazine) opinion, it still spells good marks for a guy they turn right around and essentially say is a power forward who deserves a big raise. Clear as muddy water, huh…
But how does Al see himself? That question has hardly been asked of Horford until recently, most notably after this past NBA postseason. The fact is, the man has not had a whole lot to say about it, and none of it seems to be volunteered. Al has done his job on the court , where he embraced the role of starting center and (as we all know) earned a nod to the all-star game.
The Evidence
Here’s the funny part, and I have to repeat it - Al hasn’t had all that much to say on the subject, as most of the quotes I can find on it are one-liners or otherwise very short. And in some cases, the information has been so much baseless conjecture that it couldn’t be trusted. When in doubt, always go back to local info, right?
When Hawks beat writer Michael Cunningham caught up with Al, this is what popped out of his mouth, presumably in response to a question:
“I’m fine with [center] but my natural position is obviously the four,” he said.
Cunnginham bumped into “The Boss” again later, and this time a little bit more perspective leaked out:
” ‘We need to get another big guy, another center, that’s able to help myself and Josh out,” he said. “We need to have someone to come in and have an impact. I think that is the position we need if we want to be any type of contender in the East….I don’t have a problem splitting time [at center], [ Al said]. I played a little four last year with Zaza in the game at the same time and I thought that was good. I know I am going to still play the five….I think we create a lot of problems when have an athletic lineup with Josh at the four, me at the five and Marvin at the three, [ Al said ] I think we create serious problems for people. I think that is one of our strengths as a team is we are so versatile.’ ”
The latest snippet, provided by avid Hawks fans Drmaryb and Astro Joe reveals a tad more perhaps, or not, depending on how you look at it:
“…’That’s what I’ve been all my life,” Horford said about the proposed shift toward PF.’ “
Needless to say, this isn’t any and every link I can find on this, so feel free to add anything you please in your posts, especially if it sheds more light on the subject (or anything related). But there we have it in black and white. Now….
What Does it Mean? What Conclusions do you draw?
On the one hand, it’s almost like Horford agrees with so many others in that he’s out of position at center. On the other hand, his actions on the court seem to speak louder than any words he or anyone else has spoken or typed. So, let’s ask (and answer) some questions.
1) Does Al truly prefer playing the 4 over the 5?
Well, he has to be happy about making the all-star team while playing at center, but he may feel that he is limited by playing almost exclusively at the position. He may feel that he has more to give, and would be more able to do that at the power forward position. What we haven’t heard as of yet is WHYAl thinks he is a natural power forward, as opposed to center. Unless I’ve missed something, there hasn’t been an opinion on that front from anybody, let alone Horford himself. Most attribute it to a height and weight ratio. As has been proven though, one cannot go on those two measurables alone.
2) Is this “new move” to play him more at PF more driven by Head Coach Larry Drew, or by Al Horford himself?
Keeping in mind that we still don’t quite yet know Larry Drew the Head Coach, I’ll err on the side of this being Drew’s idea. Horford is an unselfish player who doesn’t make demands like some in the League. And yet, I can recall him making comments during the season about providing more if he gets the ball more. Again, not something that seemed selfish to me at all, as Al had a point – the Hawks needed a threat in the post, and outside of Josh Smith (when he wasn’t getting distracted by wide-open 20-foot jumpers), they didn’t have it. My guess is that Larry Drew has wanted Horford more involved in the offense for some time, and now that he’s the head coach, we’re going to see more than the “12 or 13 points” that former coach Mike Woodson wanted out of him. Bottom line: Larry Drew may see more offensive potential in Horford than most, and playing him more at PF as a way to realize that potential.
3) What happens if Al ends up playing more center and less power forward than planned, out of necessity?
Horford has already remarked that he thinks the team presents quite a few matchup problems for opposing teams when he, Josh, and Marvin are in the game at their current respective positions. But he also talks of needing some help in the form of another center. Here’s the good thing, though: those short one-liner answers to the question are frequently met with the assertion that he KNOWS he will be playing center, and does not have a problem with it. I don’t think we need to worry at all about his mindset or how he sees himself position-wise until he starts talking and playing with a similar attitude as Chris Bosh or Amare Stoudamire (two big-time post players who don’t want anything to do with playing the center position), something I do not expect him to do. Then again, the day he starts putting up numbers anything like theirs while playing as a power forward would be the day the Hawks better get serious about adding a quality player at center who meshes well with Horford (translation: a minimum contract guy that doesn’t get signed until late July or August isn’t going to cut it anymore).
4) Playing more power forward, is this on offense or defense, or both? Where is Josh Smith when this happens?
Again, I’m guessing here. Before answering, I just about have to ask another question- but I’ll get to that in a second. I think it will be Zaza who plays center while Al is at the 4 spot, but that will depend on both offensive and defensive matchups. Larry Drew will probably go about this this the smart way by experimenting in training camp, practice, preseason, and in regular season games, to an extent. In other words, he will try different combinations of Al and somebody else at center, in an effort to create, exploit, and change matchups as the game dictates. Or, he will strike first by trying to dictate to opposing defenses. Either way, it should be interesting. As for the second half of that question, it’s a topic we always seem to try and avoid, but just can’t get away from.
If Al is playing the PF spot, particularly on offense…then Josh Smith can only be at one of three places – center, on the bench, or at (you guessed it) small forward. The former isn’t all that likely, and the latter will most definitely add fuel to a fire that has been burning for a while in blogdome.
5) Who will play center while Horford is playing power forward?
This comes down to matchups, in the end. Matchups on both the offensive and defensive sides of the ball. There will be times where Al is playing the 4 on offense, but playing the 5 on defense. Or vice versa, perhaps. Against bigger and stronger teams, I’m thinking we will see Pachulia or Collins at the 5. Of course, this also depends on what kind of players the opposing team has at power forward, as Al may or may not have trouble covering some of the quicker power forward types in the league, especially the ones who like to drift out to the perimeter and do their damage there. If he is in the game against a team that features this type of player, he may be better served playing the 5 on defense. Also, don’t be surprised to see Josh Powell get some time at the 5 against certain teams. If the free agent forward can hold his own against some of the less rugged big men, and the matchup is favorable, look for Drew to try this combination.
Ok, Your Turn…
Same five questions. YOUR answers.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
296 comments Add your comment
Big Ray
August 8th, 2010
8:54 pm
I agree, Newkid . However, I’m a Hawks fan, and I hope Horford stays. I wish the best for my team, despite ownership or anything else, not the best for a player. That’s just me…
Big Ray
August 8th, 2010
8:57 pm
Jody ,
The only issue I have with that anaology is that the idea of Joe playing pg was Billy Knight’s idea, and it didn’t last very long at all. In fact, neither he nor the team functioned well like that. He was the leading and only credible scorer, and playing him as the pg was a failure.
The difference is that while playing the 5 may not be what Al prefers, it is undeniable that he has been successful at it. Now whether he can do better while playing the 5 than he can playing the 4 is another story. We’d have to see him play enough consistent minutes at the 4 to know one way or the other, and any speculation prior to the “proof that is in the pudding” is just that….speculation. Nothing more, nothing less.
niremetal
August 8th, 2010
9:02 pm
Ray,
He got a $55M contract the next summer after having pulled down $6.4M the prior year on the QO, so he came out ahead of what he got with the Bulls. The Bulls made him that offer after he had a down year, so Gordon probably thought he could drive up his price tag even more after another (better) season. In any case, the Bulls offered him ~$9M/year, and he ended up getting an $11M/year deal.
O'Brien
August 8th, 2010
9:10 pm
If the ASG offer Al the maximum extension, then I think he will stay.
But you never know. Do they offer him an extension this season, or do they wait until after the new CBA?
What if Al feels upset that they waited? What if he plays well at PF, strengthening his belief that he belongs there full time.
What if a team offers him a Max deal and he asks the ASG not to match (like JJ did in Phoenix), forcing a sign and trade.
You just never know…
Astro Joe
August 8th, 2010
9:20 pm
nire, I seem to recall the Bulls spending a lot of time trying to retain Gordorn during his RFA summer. And I seem to recall that because he didn’t like the offer, he accepted the QO and the end was near. An unhappy top 5 pick can up and leave his original team. We shouldn’t assume otherwise.
Jody
August 8th, 2010
9:27 pm
@ Big Ray,
I agree. However, I think the team will be selling itself short if they didn’t legitimately explore this possibility.
MannyT
August 8th, 2010
9:42 pm
You don’t have to max out Al this early. Players will give up more than they get in the next CBA. You can make Al an offer, but there is no need to max him out. You offer too many max contracts and you end up with the Knicks of 5 years ago.
niremetal
August 8th, 2010
10:11 pm
Astro,
I am gonna (not) go out on a limb and predict that:
1) The Hawks will offer Horford a max or near-max extension under the new CBA; and
2) Horford will accept such an offer if it is given, regardless of what position he is playing.
The Bulls didn’t offer Gordon anything remotely close to the max. They didn’t even offer him anything remotely close to what they offered Deng. Everyone one and their mother said Gordon was expendable after the Bulls drafted Rose. It was a unique case that has never been repeated for or since in the entire history of restricted free agency.
niremetal
August 8th, 2010
10:15 pm
And frankly, the Hawks are complete and total morons if they offer Horford a max extension before the new CBA goes into effect. That’s just throwing money away. If we offer Al $13M/yr now and the new CBA places the max for a 4-year vet at $9M/yr, then we just threw $24M down the drain. Like MannyT said, moves like that would make us the Knicks. You don’t overpay someone just to soothe their ego.
I’m a huge fan of Al. But something Al isn’t going to hold it against the Hawks if the team keeps winning and they offer him more than any other team could offer him. And if he does, well then he isn’t the man I thought he was, and I won’t be quite so sad to see him go.
niremetal
August 8th, 2010
10:16 pm
I guess I should say “You don’t overpay someone by that much just to soothe their ego.
Bo
August 8th, 2010
10:54 pm
correct me if I am wrong but won’t Al be a restricted free agent meaning that we can match any offers?
newkid
August 8th, 2010
11:11 pm
To each his own Big Ray. I find absolutely no distress in making a distinction between support of the cats on the floor vs the cats upstairs. Certainly wish the cats on the floor the very best; you’re welcome to the current suits in the ownership and management suites. I’ve passed.
Wink
August 9th, 2010
12:44 am
Big Ray
I actually don’t disagree with you. I would not trade Al or Josh for either on the list. As I mentioned Al was the only All Star, and Josh possibly should have been an All Star last year up to that point in the season.
I was merely suggesting, hypothetically, if we had those guys on our team, which would you add to our core to help us against Boston, Orlando, Milwaukee, I purposely left out Cleveland & Miami, because Big Z, was/is the Center for both. Granted I have not researched career stats, but I kinda knew neither Lopez,Okafor,Chandler had not done much for their respective teams regarding playoffs, but as Centers, along with Horford, ZaZa, Powell, would you consider starting anyone else but Horford against Boston, Orlando, or Milwaukee in a big series or playoff?
The purpose being would any of them be worthy of a nod over Horford at Center; likewise I listed PF, thus giving you the option to start Horford at PF, along with the Center of your choice, against the 3 teams mentioned. You stated you would stick with Horford & Al…cool. The mention of the experiment at least indicates you would be tempted.
Simply put, which two players or player would you add to our “core” of JJ,Bibby,Marvin, Josh/Al to match up with those team.
My choices:
Boston (Lopez at Center, to provide inside scoring and could hold his own against Perkins downlow, provide a little more weight & height against Shaq & discourage Rondo from attacking the paint.) (Horford would be my power forward he could push KG off the blocks defensively and get the putback on offense; may have a problem with KG lenght on jumpshots; Josh would play off the bench with Jamal to help battle Boston’s reserves. Lopez wins out in this matchup because of offense & height.
Orlando ( Lopez again at Center; reason is because he could battle Dwight inside better than Horford. Dwight is not much on taking jumpers, so Horford would take him in transition and switch to Lopez in the paint. Dwight would have to work more on defense to prevent Lopez from scoring. (Since I could only have one I take Lopez, but Chandler would match up better on defense, as you state he gives nothing on offense but dunks.) (Again I would have Horford at power forward, unless Josh is in the game. This would allow us to attack Dwight on both ends of the court. Then we could bring in others to distribute fouls,keeping our best options avaiable for the close.
Milwaukee (Lopez is basically the same player as Bogut, but Bogut has a better PG. I only mention the Bucks because they were the worst team in the playoff last year by record, but they took our 53 game winner, to seven games without Bogut, augubaly their best player. This was with Al & Josh in the lineup.
All of this was to say…would you be tempted to alter the starting lineup, if if if, you had other options against these teams?
In addition, get a concensus, since we are asking the question is he a PF or Center? Does it matter or when are we at a clear disadvantage at Center and wish we could insert player X?
X meaning not necessarily a marque center, but a Lopez,Okafor,Chandler type, with our CORE against elite teams, to get a different result than we have been getting in the playoffs, dispite winning 53 games????
Just asking……
Big Ray
August 9th, 2010
6:20 am
Newkid ,
Heh…I’ve stated before that I’m not impressed with what the “suits” have done (or not done) lately. Re-check a part of my statement -
…I wish the best for my team, despite ownership or anything else…
The key words are “despite” and “team”. If that isn’t distinction, I don’t know what is. The difference between you and me is that for the sake of the guys on the floor, I hope Al Horford stays, because they need him, and replacing him (knowing our management/ownership) would mean acquiring a lesser player. Your statement about Al leaving seemed to have concern for just Al, not the other guys. Nothing wrong with that, I just had a differing viewpoint. And it was in support of the group of guys on the floor, not the group of guys in suits.
Big Ray
August 9th, 2010
6:34 am
Niremetal ,
Thanks, but I knew the facts already. My opinion of his decision had little to do with the money, and much more to do with his role. He sort of had it made with Chicago as a featured scorer/shot taker. He had no real competition, other than John Salmons, who they actually played at the three sometimes, when Gordon was in the game with him. Gordon still got the most shots and the most points.
But no, he goes to Detroit where he runs smack into Rip Hamilton and Rodney Stuckey. Results – his lowest scoring average, lowest number of started games, lowest field goal percentage, and likely (I didn’t research it fully) his least number of shot attempts per game since his rookie year. I guess the real joke is on Detroit (and Dumars), but I’m betting Gordon will get to watch the Bulls do better things without him, as the Pistons sit out the playoffs…again. Heh…at least he “got paid”, eh?
Big Ray
August 9th, 2010
6:48 am
Wink ,
I think I misunderstood your question/point of view, so sorry about that.
Uh….tough call. I’d probably go Lopez in most cases, just because of the offensive threat he poses. Defensively, I’m not sold on him, but he could battle some at center. I agree that Al on KG works, but KG’s length on jumpers is an issue. Man, did you ever call that one perfectly.
Okafor is actually someone I’d pick maybe over Chandler, based on durability and bulk (he’s a little heavier than Horford), as well as the fact that he’s more offensively capable. If pure defense and length is all we’re looking for, then a healthy Chandler gets the nod, but he can’t stay healthy, so I’d go Okafor.
I’d start Al, but move him to PF if 1) He can’t get much of anything done against the opposing center on offense, and 2) He creates a nasty mismatch against the opposing PF. It would be hard to have Josh on the bench for very long. His help defense at the rim, in transition, and ability to disrupt passing lanes alone is a big key to our defense. On offense, he’s a threat down low, in transition (he’s the deadliest finisher on the team), and his passing ability is hard to replace.
But, my pick would be Okafor. He can battle Dwight and Perkins with two things he has over Al: Added weight and a wingspan that’s a couple inches longer. He’s my pick to add to the core. I wouldn’t want the headache of trying to convince either him or Josh to come off the bench for 28-30 mpg, but at the same time…that’s a headache that could benefit in the end (I’m not bringing Al off the bench…you do NOT do that with young All-Stars).
Big Ray
August 9th, 2010
6:51 am
Nire ,
Of course, Gordon missed about 19 games last season, but the way I see it, that’s no explanation for his plummeting performance. I didn’t see him as a good fit in Detroit, given the construction of the roster (and the coaching wasn’t wonderful either, but that’s another story). In the end, Chicago is the winner. Had Gordon accepted, they might have been hard-pressed to do what they’ve done this offseason. Now they have a shooter who knows he’s just there to shoot, and a wing player who can and will defend the 2, 3, and the 1 if/when needed. With a pg like Rose, that will do just fine. Gordon was a liability on defense, anyway.
Big Ray
August 9th, 2010
6:58 am
I seriously doubt Al will have or cause issues where his contract is concerned, but he is certainly allowed to have his concerns about things (whatever those might be, if he has any).
The Hawks won’t try to max him out. Al won’t get to do what JJ did, which is posture and pose with other teams, then get the richest contract in the league. The new CBA will see to that. I just hope management does right by him, is all. And that may mean more than just offering him a reasonable and decent extension. We shall see.
vava74
August 9th, 2010
7:07 am
Ray,
Picking up on where I left above and clarifying things a bit:
I mentioned Hibbert as the prototype of the 7′ who is coming from the draft nowadays. They have the size but are soft and lack the fundamentals, the back to the basket moves and the overall big man mentality.
There is scarcity of quality 7′ and that scarcity is what is making teams play smaller players creating a two different situations that make Al very effective at the C spot:
The majority of the existing 7′ are slow and soft.
The other smallish C’s occupying the spot around the league are – most of them – favorably over matched by Al’s game, in particular his combination of hustle and mobility.
On another connected subject:
Given our depth at the SG slot, we should consider moving JJ to the SF spot and have Marvin work as a super sub for both the SF and PF position. His body type allows him to do that and his game would look better against bench players on both slots.
At the SG slot I would start Mo since he brings D and hustle and would use Jamal as the spark off bench but playing less 4/6 minutes than last year.
This would allow us to tackle the SF issue, improving our bench and without damaging the defensive soundness of the starting team.
There is no SF in the league besides Durant and Lebron that JJ cannot defend well. Maybe Carmelo could also create him so problems.
Mo, on the other hand, at the SG slot is still very effective defender (whilst almost completely ineffective on the SF slot) both on the ball and poaching the passing lanes (given his few minutes on the floor, haven’t we seen him get a substantial number of steals and finish on the break when he is playing the SG slot?).
JoJo the Godfather
August 9th, 2010
7:48 am
The Hawks have about a 3-yr window where they will be the most athletic team in the east (OKC out west???)…Any kind of speed & defense at PG, along with depth at the 5 will make them a serious contender…To maintain this athletic advantage, Horford should play MOST of his minutes at the 5, and I think he will be fine with this…I think Al’s issues came with Woodson always sending Za Za in for Al and Joe Smith in for Josh Smith, there was no experimenting with different lineups…If I’m reading 82 games.com right, it looks like Horford played PF while Za Za played center for only 35 minutes all year…I think Al wants Za Za to be the first big off the bench (similar to how Ja Craw is the first guard off the bench), Za Za goes to center while either Josh or Horford plays the 4 and the other sits…You can also experiment with all 3 on the floor together, but lack of quality depth behind these 3 will likely limit this type of set…Can Za Za stay on the floor if given 20-25 minutes a game on average?…I’m sure Woodson was worried that with Za Za & Horford on the floor together that they were more likely to get one of them in foul trouble (again, not trusting the depth of his bench).
doc
August 9th, 2010
8:43 am
jojo, solid man. noted the lack of time to really judge how al and zaza would mix and NONE for the combo with josh that everyone fears and i find intriguing if combined with jj and jasmal in my comments on both blogs recently. josh and zaza have been paired a lot but not zaza and al by woody’s strict combo rotations in the past. i would like to see our big set with jamal at point forcing the issue or even bibby or teague. it ha just never been experimented with in the past it seems for reasons of woody and the fears of folks on this blog about josh at three for short intervals.
newkid
August 9th, 2010
9:28 am
Sounds like semantics and selectivity to me Ray. My original line was: “Would love to see him stay and play in Atlanta for years to come, but wish him…” Don’t think we disagree on that, but I guess I could see that being non-contextually contorted to allow the suggestion that such a statement puts an individual over the cats on the floor. It doesn’t.
Al won’t engineer machinations geared to get him relocated (notwithstanding AJ’s proper reference to a plausible case being made that in future he could have desires for relocation to a market with broader Hispanic appeal), unless of course he comes to the conclusion that ASG actions clearly indicate they have elected to ’stay on the porch’ (thanx drmaryb). Such a conclusion is clearly already well within the fathomable for all who care to remove the blinders (btw, I count you in that number).
The ASG are hoping and praying (against all odds) for a basketball Prince Charming (or two) to fall from the heavens into their laps, rather than aggressively seeking to engineer the necessary acquisitions to compete for the O’Brien. Absolutely dreadful talent evaluation & selection (e.g., Shelden Williams, Marvin Williams, AC Law, etc), putrid acquisitions (e.g., Speedy Claxton), and bottom-feeding have all contributed to ‘misses’ in that search for Prince Charming. If there’s one that for which the ASG has shown acumen it’s consistently stumbling and falling. They’d giggle all the way to Bank of America if Superman were to grace them with his return to the ATL in a couple years (if only out of his desire to return to the city he knows as home), but they’ve demonstrated they’re not prepared (financially or otherwise) or capable of developing and executing a top shelf game plan that allows them to successfully compete with those who have long since elected to stay in the race and never retire to the porch. Who could blame Al – a winner of the first order – for deciding that committing a full third of his career to that sort of nonsense is enough? Don’t even think the cats who’ll likely continue to pound the oak at Phillips would begrudge him that, why would I?
Astro Joe
August 9th, 2010
9:33 am
If you play Al and Zaza together, then you have to have a viable 3rd option at center. Cheeseburger Collins wasn;t that guy last season but fortunately, we have a fleet of centers that will be available to us in November.
If we have to offer LA a max deal, that means that the front office has put itself in a position where they have to “buy” his services as opposed to retaining them.
Assuming that Al makes around $7-8M more next season, that would leave very little room for a quality FA big (like Pryzbilla, Dalembert, Perkins or Chandler). Eventually, the Hawks will need to trade a member of the CORE if they are to improve the top 8. Or, heaven forbid, wait until Bibby’s contract expires in around 22 months before making a move to increase the talent at the top end. Of course, using the MLE is always an option. OK, you can stop laughing now.
Astro Joe
August 9th, 2010
9:50 am
It’s a good thing that Al doesn’t have a relationship with the player below and therefore is likely to have no idea that a center drafted after him (and who has not made the All-Star team) is in talks with his team regarding a contract extension. Because that may be something that may disturb Horford to learn.
It will be interesting to see how many teams opt to “take care” of their franchise cornerstones now as opposed to waiting until the new CBA offers them some financial benefits. So far, the Thunder have done it with Durant and seemingly have started talks with Jeff Green. And now this guy below.
Yessir, we ain’t got nuttin’ to worry ’bout.
Chicago Bulls center Joakim Noah wants to sign a long-term deal with the team and hopes to have one done before the season begins in October. Noah said his agent, Donald Dell, has already started discussing the parameters of a deal with Bulls general manager Gar Forman and the 25-year -old is confident the parties can work something out in the near future. ESPN.com
Astro Joe
August 9th, 2010
9:52 am
Good for Othella.
Dinamo Sassari announced the arrival of Othello Hunter. Former NBA player signed a one-year contract with an escape to exercise by August 18. Sportando
kwooden1
August 9th, 2010
10:02 am
Al, likes the 4 and is clearly most comfortable at the 4. As a 5 he gets caught away the basketball every so often because he naturally expects the 5 to have his back. (I think) I’m much less concerned with the position Al plays, than is ability to improve as a player. Even though Bosh, Beasley, Boozer and Lewis are clearly better offensive players at PF, they still lack Horford’s toughness. I really don’t worry about Horford because I know he’s getting better and from what I see is a solid guy.
Every time I look at the HAWKS stats to see trends to improve on, it really seems to show that assist production coming the PG position is the key. I want to see Smoove have a consistent right hand hook and Al have a consistent left hand hook, but I don’t think those improvements will have as much impact as a PG that can consistently drive and dish. We really need to get serious improvement from Jeff T.
vava74
August 9th, 2010
10:07 am
Dinamo Sassari have just got into the A league in Italy.
All the best for Othello. Hopefully he will improve his game.
O'Brien
August 9th, 2010
10:15 am
kwooden1,
Another imrpovement the team needs (as Macaroni Tony) pointed out is more FTA. I think Teague and LD’s offense will help with that.
AJ,
Al said he knew that the priority was to re-sign JJ, so he will just have to see how his contract situation goes (sounds similar to the Chills situation, when resigning Josh was the priority).
I think Drew as the HC will improve the chances of Al staying though. Drew is more likely to give Al more minutes at PF, and is more likely to get him more touches.
All Woody wanted from Al (on offense) was 12 or 13 points. Al probably believes he is capable of doing more than that.
As for Noah’s situation, I can understand the Hawks waiting, because Noah will not get a max deal like Al, so the Hawks have more $ to save by waiting on the new CBA.
SLAM ONLINE | » Al Horford to Play More Power Forward Next Season
August 9th, 2010
10:30 am
[...] All-Star (and undersized) center will be shifting to his more natural position a bit more, according to his new coach. The AJC reports: “When Hawks beat writer Michael Cunningham caught up with Al, this is what [...]
niremetal
August 9th, 2010
10:37 am
AJ,
O’Brien hinted at this in his post, but I think you’re looking for examples of guys in different strata than Al. Al is an All-Star, but not a superstar. He is likely to get a max offer from somewhere (unlike Noah/Green), but is not viewed as a superstar and franchise cornerstone (like Durant). Durant just led the league in scoring on a 50-win squad and is being pegged as an MVP candidate. Al just made his first All-Star team. Different strata.
A more realistic comparison would be to see what the Blazers do with Oden. While Oden has obviously had more injuries than Al, he is almost certain to get a premium since he is an athletic 7-footer (see Andrew Bogut). Like Horford, Oden is likely to get the max from someone, but he is not viewed as a surefire superstar. Thus, both team will probably be saving several million dollars per year by offering the max under the new CBA instead of the max under the current one.
Astro Joe
August 9th, 2010
11:46 am
nire, a franchise cornerstone is different than a franchise player. IMO, a cornerstone is one of 3-4 guys who form a team’s foundation. Surely that applies to guys like Horford and Noah. Durant is a franchise player… he stands alone on his team. I understand the difference. I don’t think that you allow another team to set the price on cornerstone players… I think that treatment should go to guys who are a notch below in value to the team. I hope that Sund treats Horford like a cornerstone player… and I think that starts by at least having a proactive discussion with Al regarding his contract (even if he explains why it won;t happen until next summer). I hope that Sund treats Al differently than he may have Marvin or Bibby (or Childress).
And I doubt seriously that Oden gets a max offer from anyone. I could see comparing Horford to Al Jefferson, Bynum or Bogut. I think Oden gets a Chandler/Dalembert type $10M offer from someone (using old CBA terms), but far from a max deal for a player who not only can’t stay healthy but is still very, very raw in terms of basic basketball skills.
OB, don’t forget that Horford was a 3rd year player last year who entered the start of the season with very little proven offensive skill. Didn’t Horford’s FGAs increase as the season progressed and his offense became more consistent? You make it sound like dude was ready to assume a Pau Gasol type role to start the season. And if Drew is running a 5-man attack, how does he ensure that player 2 is getting more touches than player 5? Isn’t the idea that the ball move and the guy with the high percentage shot takes the high percentage shot? How are we to know that Horford will be that guy the 2nd or 3rd most time on the team?
Astro Joe
August 9th, 2010
12:00 pm
Oden is entering his 4th pro season and has played in 82 games. Horford has played in 229 games over the identical career length. Oden’s playoff average (in 6 games) is 5 points, 4 boards and 1 block per game. Nene was an oft-injured center who received a 5/$50 deal even after battling injuries. Chandler was in the same ballpark. Yes, Oden has a better rep than those guys, but he has also played 1 in every 3 games over his brief career. A max deal for that guy? Well, I guess Isiah is back in some capacity with the Knicks, so maybe you’re right.
Astro Joe
August 9th, 2010
12:05 pm
ESPN’s early Eastern Conference predictions. (I think someone, if not 2 teams, will struggle to win 25 games in our conference next season).
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=SummerForecast10-EastStandings
niremetal
August 9th, 2010
12:43 pm
Astro,
I will bet you a beer the next time I’m at a Hawks home game that Oden’s next contract starts within $2M/year of the max. Deal?
Marcus
August 9th, 2010
12:43 pm
big Ray,
sorry for the delay. I see you found a link for the Al Horford comments in the latest blog.
I cannot take credit for finding it, that belongs to Peachtree Hoops. I referenced the Peachtree hoops link in a response on Hoopinion’s year-end player review on Horford:
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2010/5/25/1486247/its-come-to-this-another-links
Unfortunately, looks like the original Univision/desportes link is broken, so the updated article you have on the 8/9 blog will have to do
niremetal
August 9th, 2010
12:44 pm
Uh oh, looks like Truth Serum found a new library…
Astro Joe
August 9th, 2010
1:15 pm
nire, deal! I assume that we’re talking a Philips Arena beer, so I’ll start saving my $50 in case I lose.
Big Ray
August 9th, 2010
1:48 pm
Newkid ,
I read everything over again, and what it boils down to is this – I misread you. I assure you semantics and selectivity are not my MO, nor was the “contortion” of your context intentional. I ask you to accept my humble apology.
Big Ray
August 9th, 2010
2:02 pm
Marcus ,
It’ll do just fine. Thanks for bringing it to everybody’s attention, either way.
Astro Joe ,
There’s a different viewpoint on the subject, and I can’t say I disagree with it, certainly not entirely. The only thing I do know is that I don’t want to be biting my nails when the time comes, where Al Horford is concerned. I don’t want this to be Clippers of the East…
Newkid ,
The ASG appears to be more concerned with their bottom line over what a GM can do for them. So, we are faced with the question of whether or not Sund is creative or enough of a visionary to really do some things for this team. But would it matter, if the owners (who are experts in their own respective businesses, NOT in basketball or basketball operations) are going to continue to influence the most detailed and key decisions with their own final objectives? No. Looks to me like Sund is a company man. Would it matter if he wasn’t? As long as these non-experts are willing to tell somebody they’ve hired to BE and expert, what to do, instead of trusting him…nothing will change.
Big Ray
August 9th, 2010
2:04 pm
Thanks to the blogger who alerted me via e-mail of the local “problem.” It’s been taken care of.
O'Brien
August 9th, 2010
2:07 pm
From ESPN’s projections, I would flip flop Hawks and Bulls. I think we will have the 4th best record in the East. And I think it will be Toronto who wins less than 25 games.
O'Brien
August 9th, 2010
2:09 pm
It sure would be nice to get to the ECF though.
From ESPN;
The Hawks are a solid team that seems stuck in no man’s land, having failed to make the conference finals for 40 years — since the Lakers swept them in the 1970 Western Division finals — and that probably won’t change in 2011. .
Big Ray
August 9th, 2010
2:11 pm
Nire ,
Do we need to put you on suicide watch, or just make sure you don’t climb any towers?
http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2010/08/09/atlanta-hawks-slight-chance-youll-see-pape-sy/?cxntfid=blogs_hawks
Big Ray
August 9th, 2010
2:12 pm
…with high-powered rifles…
Astro Joe
August 9th, 2010
2:29 pm
OB, the ECF should be easy. Beat the Bulls in the opening round series (home or away depending on your perspective) and then beat Miami in a 7-game series. Easy as pie.
I didn’t realize that Kurt Thomas has signed with the Bulls. This certainly looks like a deep and talented roster. Of course, their starting forwards may only play 50 games together.
http://espn.go.com/nba/teams/roster?team=chi
newkid
August 9th, 2010
3:07 pm
Ray, in the vernacular of my daughter, we’re just kicking it. Please, no apologize man.
O'Brien
August 9th, 2010
3:58 pm
AJ,
If I’m not mistaken, the Bulls also signed Keith Bogans. I really like their team for 2 reasons.
1) Quality depth (imo) at every position;
PG – Rose/ CJ Watson
SG – Korver / Brewer / Bogans
SF – Deng/James Johnson
PF – Boozer / Taj Gibson
Center – Noah / Kurt
2) Guys who fill specific roles.
- Shooter? Kyle Korver.
- Perimeter defender? Brewer and Bogans
- Low post presence? Boozer
- 7 foot center who hustles, gets rebounds, and willing to do the dirty work? Noah. (and Kurt to mix it up).
I think the Bulls biggest issues will be an inexperienced HC, and potential injuries (Boozer and Noah especially). But I still have them as the 5th best in the East.
Astro Joe
August 9th, 2010
4:21 pm
Thibadeau’s defensive genius against Drew’s offensive prowess. That would make for an entertaining series between two inexperienced coaches.
Astro Joe
August 9th, 2010
4:24 pm
BTW, I’m predicting doom and despair for both the Pacers and Raptors. This notion that the Eastern Conference has a bunch of 30+ win teams is garbage… there will be some really awful teams in our confernece and I think the Pacers and Raptors will each struggle to eclipse 30 wins. I wonder if Bird, McHale and Ainge will all find themselves in Boston for the ‘11-12 season… because Bird’s days in Indiana are already counting down to 0.
K-Dogg
August 9th, 2010
4:59 pm
Ths is a joke right??? The man siad his natural postion is a 4 end of debate of course he is cool playing the 5 b/c most 4’s in the L can play the 5 and he also would love to start so him saying that only tells me 1 he wants to play and 2 like we all agree he is ok vs half of the L but the point is what he would be best playing and perfers to play period!! We can stop using this all-star excuse too b/c for one aint but about 3 centers in the east worth making the team and last year had the nets not been God awful Lopez would have made it over Big Al!! Im not saying Al did not have a good year but he was an All Star by default but im not going to take that away from that man b/c he has put in work and he is maybe my favorite player on the team. Like i said im if you read between the lines he knows he is a miss match on most nights at the 5 but this is based on how we run our offense. Just as we can say he is a match up problem for 5 if he played the 4 he could be one too but at the end of the day this old a** debate has nothing to do with all playing the 5 vs the scrubs its vs the Magic, Lakers and Cavs last year b/c we showed we were ok vs the C’s and now this year its going to be vs the Magic Lakers and C’s this year since they got bigger. Al liek most of us fans are not dumb and have played enough basketball to now that if your too little some times and teams slow you down it could lad to bad things!! To me im glad this article shows us what Big Al thinks but even if he never said these things it only makes sense to move him to the 4!!!!!! To me Josh is odd man out b/c no way he can play the 3 and i dont think with his personality Josh Smith is cool coming off the bench in his hometown based on his numbers maybe im wrong but i doubt it!!!!!!!!!