Hawks bits and pieces

Hang in there, Hawks fans. We’ll make it through this summer yet (or so I keep telling myself, anyway).

While things seem fairly quiet in free agency, and that would be for all NBA teams at the moment, a few tidbits are floating around that may prove to be a useful diversion for a minute or two. As we discuss those, I keep thinking about the missing Lorenzen Wright. Missing persons cases more often than not are either a false alarm, or they don’t end very nicely. But some do. And I hope that this is one of those where “all’s well that ends well.”  Peace and blessings on his family, who I’m sure are sick with worry. These kinds of things never seem to matter to people until they hit close to home. Again, I hope this ends well.

 

Tough Times

As much noise as we make about adding size and toughness to the roster, do we bother to consider that adding toughness doesn’t always mean adding a body? When the official announcement of the signing of former Lakers forward/center Josh Powell finally came down, one of the catch phrases was that he “adds toughness.” Well, if the Lakers say he’s a good guy and a good addition, I’ll take their word for it, at least to an extent. After all, Powell hasn’t played many minutes in L.A., so we don’t have a lot of visual evidence to review (other than some youtube clips) for confirmation. But what about the guys who were already on the roster? Can’t you add toughness….by simply becoming tougher?

If you ask me (and you didn’t, but guess what?) toughness is a state of mind. The body can be willing and able, but it’s no good if the spirit is weak. Avid Hawks fan and blogger Northcyde is one of the foremost fans calling for two of our key guys (Al Horford and Josh Smith) to play a lot tougher, as the success of this team depends heavily on that. Realistically, that can be the key difference between competing at the highest levels, or struggling to do so. Look no further than last season’s first round playoff series. The Hawks struggled mightily when Al Horford allowed himself to get out-toughed by Kurt Thomas, and Josh Smith allowed Ersan Ilyasova to out-hustle and outplay him for stretches at a time.

So what can the Hawks do to get tougher? What are Josh Smith and Marvin Williams doing to get tougher. Those are two guys who could really have an impact on the game if they bring it with more force. In fact, that’s the one thing that can really optimize a lineup of long, athletic players. Without it, much is wasted.

How does one change one’s mindset? Different people have different methods. And sometimes the body has to be brought up to speed with the mind. The idea is to be tough all the time, not just when backed into a corner and forced into “fight or flight” mode. Well, it seems one Hawk is going to give it a go in the offseason.  As noted on NBA.com (on the Atlanta Hawks official site), backup center Zaza Pachulia has added to his offseason regimen, and the results might be more than just better conditioning, footwork, and overall stamina. It might just result in a tougher approach to the game. All I can say is watch out Kevin Garnett! I still love that moment in Hawks history…

 

The “other” Star Guard

According to ESPN.com, Hawks super sub Jamal Crawford would like to discuss money matters. He wants to remain a Hawk, and I’m sure any Hawks spokesperson would likely state that they would like to keep him around. And while Jamal has been around the league for a decade (and been with several teams), he may as well get comfortable wherever he is sitting. After all, things don’t tend to happen around the front office at lightning speed. Especially if they don’t really have to. The question is, do the Hawks want him to finish out his career in Atlanta? Might they see him as a two way asset, or has he proven himself to be indispensable? Jamal seemed to fit in pretty darn well, and that is not likely to change under new head coach Larry Drew. But, if the Hawks are very slow or otherwise noncommittal to signing him to an extension, what might it be an indication of? Of course, a number of theories could abound. Understandably, they may be more focused on preparing an extension offer to Al Horford. Or, they may have other moves up their sleeve. You just never know. But, for the sake of the sanity of blogger Steve Brown, I won’t mention one of the most obvious and talked about (by others, not just me) possibilities.

In the meantime, I wish I could be an invisible fly on the wall in training camp. If for no other reason than to watch Jamal Crawford playing against Jordan Crawford. That would have to be a fun matchup, no?

560 comments Add your comment

drmaryb (*_*)

July 31st, 2010
9:29 pm

Fundamentals

OMG! ROF. LOL!

Fundamentals

July 31st, 2010
9:30 pm

Steimsma, Ajinca, Butch, Alred are all dying for a shot.

Fundamentals

July 31st, 2010
9:33 pm

We can beg to differ, but Shaq won’t help us anymore than he did the Cavs or Suns. Explain how if their solid disciplined team fell apart how is Shaq supposed to help Josh be more mature and productive? If we just had Josh’s head on straight Dwight wouldn’t be such a load. I honestly think that was what really pissed Al off in the games.

kwooden1

July 31st, 2010
9:40 pm

northcyde, great points again. If we do start turning the ball over, our offensive will suffer and our defensive will get even worse. But I think those numbers reflect our regular season problems against teams with very good offensives. Golden State, NY, Phoenix all gave us a lot of problems because they could score. But our real problem is winning in the Playoffs, which will require us to maximize our strengths and mimize our weaknesses. Horford is going to have to play better one-on-one defensive and Bibby is going to have to do a better job of staying in front of his man. Hopefully our new offense and more standard defense will also help. For all that happen this summer in terms of players moving, our team might have done the best thing by just staying together and incorporating a different playing style.

GO HAWKS!!

drmaryb (*_*)

July 31st, 2010
10:10 pm

Fundamentals

Shaq is available ….. Available ….. AVAILABLE! Without destroying the core – that is the POINT!

Prsyzbilla has a torn up knee – big time. I think he tore his PCL? A rare thing to do and hard as heck to heal.
A hyper-extension injury. That igament os almost impossible to fully rehab at his age.
No Good.

I think Perkins in Boston, tore his MCL and PCL: WOW! DANG! He’s gpt a looong way back too. These BIG guys don’t heal very well oin the knees and foot. Too much weight bearing on pivot joints.
The knee is the most complicated joint in the entire body, too many ligaments and muscles to anchor down.

ACL, PCL, MCL, LCL, Medial Meniscus, Lateral Meniscus, Patella Tendon, Patella, Distal Femur, Proximal Tibia, Proximal Fibula, Quadriceps Muscle: is Biceps Femoris, Vastus Medialis, Vastus Lateralis, Sartorius. Calf-Muscles: is Gastrocnemius, Soleus. Hamstring Muscles: Adductor Magnus, Semimembranosus, Semitendinosus, Biceps Femoris (long head), Gracilis.

Man ALL that ISH anchors on the knee. If a basketball player was a horse, you would have to take dude out back and shoot him in the head (due to the weight bearing down on the joint), would be impossible to heal.

A basketball player (specifically Center) carries the most weight and can heal almost 100%. With
surgery and critical rehab. But ALL those atrophied muscles have to be rehabilitated like you wouldn’t believe! Your’e talking up to two years and a whole lot of player determination.

Even, then they never regain ALL that leapability and superior strength:
Look at: Oden, Jamal Mashburn, Tracy McGrady, Penny Hardaway, Elton Brand (achilles/knee?),
Pryszbilla (multiple knee injuries and set-backs), CP3 (likely to need micro-fracture this year?), Bynum, Kobe,(he plays with un-believable pain), Vince Carter, etc.

I don’t think Shaq has ever had a Knee Injury? He is so strong! But older and slower.

We could still use Shaq’s skills at 38 tho.
Yao Ming (talking quits – bad foot w/too much weight to heal)

Fundamentals man, BIG MAN – don’t grow on trees! They come very rare and take a long long time to develop. ( See Habeet).

I actually think Zsa-Zsa could be our developmental BIG, if we just get him in a big man camp! And hire a specialist to develop his foot work on the team. (I.E. Patrick Ewing)

Here’s My Point: they just ain’t lying around for the Hawks to pick and choose from, or any other team for that matter. So, attitudes aside – Get Shaq in here!

drmaryb (*_*)

July 31st, 2010
10:33 pm

Fundamentals

I specialize in extremity joint care: that means:
Joint Alignment and Sports Injury Rehabilitation with ALL the Physio-Therapeutic Rehabilitation.

Upper Extremity: Shoulder/Elbow/Wrist/Hand
Lower Extremity: Hip/Knee/Ankle/Foot

It’s what I do!

I am the team doctor for the IWFL: Atlanta Xplosion (I diagnose, rehab and make surgical referrals)
for that team. 2006 National Champions. I travel to all their games Home and Away (Dallas, LA, Miami, Louisiana, West Palm Beach, Orlando and N.C.). Since 2002

See Atlanta Xplosion.Com
I also work with the WNBA (Atlant Dream) behind the scenes.

I AM an EXPERT in my field! FYI.
I have nothing to prove on a blog? I just love sports in general … Tennis is my Racket! (I played in College on a 4 year scholarship). But, I love all sports from Golf to LaCrosse and everything in between.

But, I read the report on Marvin’s back problem. It was a sprained muscle for crying out loud and that was 2 years ago. Give it a rest! I have three titanium rods and four pedicle screws in my lumbo-sacral spine.
Been there done that. There is NOTHING spinal related that I don’t know about!

Absolutely NOTHING! Marvin had NO back issues this past year! NONE!
He just Sucked – that’s ALL!

SteveW

July 31st, 2010
10:39 pm

Ken Strickland – you kinda prove a point for bringing Shaq in here – he only average 17.1ppg and 11.1 rpg versus Shaq – he averaged 18.3 and 13.2 overall – so Shaq did slow him down a little. And Shaq was playing less than half the game this year – who else did they have on Dwight with the Cavs/ Anderson Varejo?

I took Howard’s comments as – “Please don’t get Shaq ATL, because we’re in trouble if you do” – I know, kind of reading between the lines – but the word in the NBA is the only way to stop Howard is that he is bothered by someone bigger than he is (or put him at the line – ha!).

SteveW

July 31st, 2010
10:39 pm

Average should be “averaged” in the above post – sorry

SteveW

July 31st, 2010
10:40 pm

The Latest on Shaq – His Price is To High For Now

“The Hawks reportedly have cooled to the idea of adding C Shaquille O’Neal, because, for now, his asking price is too high.

If he were to end up in Atlanta, he’d be in the same division as Magic C Dwight Howard, which would make it Superman vs. Superman four times a year during the regular season.

When asked whether O’Neal would be a good fit for the Hawks, Howard told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, “I don’t know. I like their lineup now. I know a lot of people get mad and say they’re not big on the inside, but they’re a big team. They’ve got big guards. They’ve got big forwards. They’ve got a flying forward (Josh Smith). So it doesn’t really matter about having a seven-footer.”

Howard also said that O’Neal’s “presence in the locker room” might be the biggest asset to a team looking to acquire him at this stage in his career”.

Read more: http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/The_Baseline/entry/view/73056/hawks_reportedly_have_backed_off_trying_to_add_shaq#ixzz0vJkccIFY

SteveW

July 31st, 2010
10:42 pm

Post this on Shaq’s locker and in his weight room to motivate him:

Howard also said that O’Neal’s “presence in the locker room” might be the biggest asset to a team looking to acquire him at this stage in his career”.

SteveW

July 31st, 2010
10:46 pm

Howard told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, “I don’t know. I like their lineup now.

Translation – “We just swept ATL in the largest margin on victory in the history of the NBA. Please don’t let them improve – we’ve already got the Heat and the Celts to worry about. I like ATL just the way they are – as constituted, we will crush them by almost the same margin this year if we happen to meet in the playoffs”

SteveW

July 31st, 2010
10:53 pm

Drmaryb – don’t you think his back problem could have been not physical this year – but mental? I used to coach small college basketball, and I remember that long after knee injuries were healed, the psychological factor of fear of re-injuring/ going slow because you were unsure were tough hings to overcome. Different kids handled it differently. Some took more time than others. Just wondered if Marvin didn’t have a good sports psychologist to coax him thru. Your thoughts appreciated since you work in the field.

drmaryb (*_*)

July 31st, 2010
10:56 pm

Spinal – Finals!

The only two players I know of with Serious and Structural Spinal Issues are:

Steve Nash: DX: Spondylolisthesis (anterior displacement of a spinal vertebrae) at L5 upon S1. – acquired

TJ Ford: DX: Spinal Stenosis Congenital (narrowing of the spinal canal) – born with this.

The Truth

July 31st, 2010
11:02 pm

northcyde

After looking at my stat link again (upside down and then right side up), it is a bit difficult to get an overall defensive ranking from the page. It seems the table has broken down the Team Defensive Statistics for 2009-2010 into subgroups named RPG, BPG and SPG. Each subgroup is broken down further into HME OPP Diff (their difference). While I presented only a partial assessment of Boston poor defense performance at 29th (HME rebounding per game) I did not tell the full story. For convenience and expediency, it maybe better to just highlight the Diff (their difference) in each of these groups. That way you get a better picture (faster) from the spread or the difference of team performing against the opposition. If you applied this to the table, Boston would be ranked 25th on RPG diff (still very poor), ranked 15th on BPG diff (better but just average), and ranked 1st on SPG (excellent). If this was a kid’s report card the grades would show A, C, F with an overall GPA of about a 2.0/4.0 without KG for most of the regular season. Just goes to show how adding the right player to a team can make difference.

drmaryb (*_*)

July 31st, 2010
11:18 pm

SteveW

Excellent question! For what I recall? Marvin just had a pulled muscle, nothing structural.
Sort of like if you pulled a hamstring in football. Which is actually worse, because the thigh muscles are so HUGE. The low back muscles are 5 layers deep and are flat and layered.

The most likely injured low back muscle is the Quadratus Lumborum

(Lateral Flexors). The only muscle in the entire body that attaches to the lateral (sides) of the discs.
Side to Side bending … Imagine sliding your hand down the outside of the thigh to touch the outside of the knee? It also attaches to the bottom of the rib cage (12th rib) the top of the Illium (pelvic at the waist line).

Prognosis: Good
Treatment: Electric Muscle Stimulation, Ultra-Sound, Cryo-Therapy – (Ice), Heat, Rest, followed by spinal
adjustment for vertebral mis-alignment once swelling and pain subside.

Common Sports Injury

drmaryb (*_*)

July 31st, 2010
11:20 pm

SteveW

Excellent question! From what I recall? Marvin just had a pulled muscle, nothing structural.
Sort of like if you pulled a hamstring in football. Which is actually worse, because the thigh muscles are so HUGE. The low back muscles are 5 layers deep and are flat and layered.

The most likely injured low back muscle is the Quadratus Lumborum

(Lateral Flexors). The only muscle in the entire body that attaches to the lateral (sides) of the discs.
Side to Side bending … Imagine sliding your hand down the outside of the thigh to touch the outside of the knee? It also attaches to the bottom of the rib cage (12th rib) the top of the Illium (pelvic at the waist line).

Prognosis: Good
Treatment: Electric Muscle Stimulation, Ultra-Sound, Cryo-Therapy – (Ice), Heat, Rest, followed by spinal
adjustment for vertebral mis-alignment once swelling and pain subside.

Chief Complaint: Sore Back Muscles and localized pain

Common Sports Injury

SteveW

July 31st, 2010
11:22 pm

Drmaryb – I am gradually being brought around to the view that Marvin just might have regressed last year. I hope it was only a 1 year glitch, and not a pattern as so often happens.

SteveW

July 31st, 2010
11:23 pm

P.S. And not due to a back injury I should add

drmaryb (*_*)

July 31st, 2010
11:38 pm

Fundamentals

Shaq is not the reason the Cavaliers lost in the Play-Offs. Boston just whupped that butt! Just like they did Orlando!

Also, there was some serious CHEMISTRY ISH going on over there, that had NOTHING to do with Shaq!
Delonte West was banging LeBron’s Mamma & LeBron found out about it after game 2!
LeBron was also yelling at the Coach on the sideline for not playing James Hickson when LeBron wanted him to. LeBron quit on his team and also reports say, LeBron treated the equipment manager
like an illegal immigrant. Word is, LeBron is a tyrant behind the scenes in general.

Not a very nice dude! Don’t blame everything on Shaq! I’m just sayin’

Heck, we ain’t got NO money and the ASG can’t afford him anyways! Geþ your popcorn ready – it’s gonna’ be a long long season!

SteveW

July 31st, 2010
11:47 pm

Also, for the folks comparing Boston defensive stats with others – remember by their own admission, Boston basically took the regular season”off” to prepare for the playoffs.

Look at their playoff “D” stats if you want to see the true Boston statistics.

The Truth

July 31st, 2010
11:47 pm

When Dwight makes this statement about the Hawks at not good:

“When asked whether O’Neal would be a good fit for the Hawks, Howard told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, “I don’t know. I like their lineup now.”

What we really wish he would say (one day) when referring to the Hawks:

“I really hate playing this team; I get punked every time when I play them”

The Truth

July 31st, 2010
11:49 pm

Correction: “When Dwight makes this statement about the Hawks its not good:”

Ken Strickland

August 1st, 2010
12:00 am

How many of you think Shaq will be content to sit on our bench and receive limited mins until the playoffs, or until we play Orlando? The key to limiting a player like DHoward is good perimeter DEF. Since his OFF is very limited when he’s more that 6ft from the basket, forcing him to come out and receive the entry pass is the key to defending him.

Once he comes out to get the ball and starts making his move, the PG drops down and forces him to pick up his dribble, then he quickly gets back to his man. PG JTeague has the speed, quickness and athleticism to do all of that effectively, and so does JaCrawford. Bibby does a poor job of pressuring the ball, and he’s not very effective at recovering and getting back to his man either.

It’s also a very good idea to try and confuse a player like Howard by using different players from different positions and angles to force him to pick up his dribble. That makes it more confusing for him to decide who he should make his outlet pass to.

FUNDAMENTALS-I think JCollins will be more effective on DEF this yr. One reason is LDrew will actually allow him off the bench. To me, if you have a particular on your team who’s there to defend a certain player, or a certain type of player, it makes sense to play him some quality mins a gm or 2 before the team meets that certain player.

I think Collins will have more foot speed and mobility now that he’s lost some of that weight.

northcyde

August 1st, 2010
12:28 am

KS . . . Marvin’s PPG total isn’t what I was talking about. His effectiveness and mentality as a player is what I’m talking about. He basically let 2 guys come in here ( Flip and Jamal ) and let them take playing time away from him. He can’t allow that to happen, and expect things to change.

I know you’ll blame that all on Woody, but it goes back to Marvin’s “I’m cool with being a complimentary player” mentality.

Smoove flat out refuses to be a complimentary player, and goes all out. . . even do things that he has no business doing ( shooting long jumpers ). But Marvin . . he’s cool with anything. And when you’re a player that doesn’t do one particular thing very well, that type of complacency will see your playing time get cut.

I like Marvin. He’s a solid player. But he needs to decide if he’s going to become an impact player or not. And he doesn’t need to be a 18 ppg scorer to be an impact player either. If defense is his strength now, then be known as a top 10 defender in the league.

Strive to be real good at something.

drmaryb (*_*)

August 1st, 2010
12:57 am

NorthCyde

Aye … NorthCyde, I’ve been saying that for years. The team never seemed to have defined roles nor a team identity. Looked like free-lancing on offense, if it wasn’t a fast-break? There were no set plays, no rythm in the half court sets.

That’s coaching.

northcyde

August 1st, 2010
1:07 am

And Ken . . if Shaq came here, I wouldn’t advocate him receiving limited minutes. He’s at least getting 20 – 25 minutes a game.

The problem with what you talk about Ken, is that you keep speaking in “hypotheticals”, all predicated on “if this happens” or “if that happens”

You talk about forcing Howard to come out and receive an entry pass. Well who on this team is strong enough to keep him from getting good post position 5 – 10 feet from the basket?

Horford is our center. He has to play 30+ minutes a night. He’s going to be the guy matched up against Howard the vast majority of the time. And he has proven not to even be able to slow down Dwight . . at all. Zaza could, when Dwight was 20. Collins couldn’t ever do it.

And you speak about Teague? A PG that we have no idea what he can actually do yet on a grand scale. Just “beliefs” that he can get it done, like he’s a top notch PG? You have much higher expectations for Teague, than anyone else on this board. I hope he does become Andre Miller, which is basically your expectation for the kid. I’ll gladly give you props, if Teague just comes right in and runs the show, making us an efficient basketball machine.

We threw the entire kitchen sink at Howard in the playoffs. Played him straight up. Doubled him. Tripled him. Played 4 different people on him ( Horford, Zaza, Collins, Morris ). And not a dang thing worked.

But Drew and Conner are going to come in here in one year, and implement some great innovative defensive system to slow that dude down?

And the other thing is that none of our guys can really make Howard work on the other end, and defend him. The way that teams have been able to attack Howard, is to be able to do it on BOTH ENDS of the court. It’s what Shaq and Cleveland did in the first ORL vs CLE matchup. It’s what Charlotte and their bigs and slashers did in the CHA vs ORL 1st round series.

We can do everything that you want the Hawks to do, PLUS add the biggest man in the NBA as our anchor for 20 – 25 minutes a game. But you’re against that for some reason. And it has very little to do with Shaq’s playing ability or if he could be effective vs Howard.

Instead, you try to sell us that a non-productive player like Jason Collins ( who won’t play more than 10 minutes a night ), can come in and do the job? A guy that doesn’t have a post move to his name, can’t block shots, can’t rebound. But oh . . he’s a “great” locker room guy.

You try to sell us that Josh Powell, a guy that has had 1/2 of a good season in the NBA, as a guy who can be an adequate backup PF that can help us? Even though Marvin is better at PF, than Powell is?

You try to sell us that Zaza is going to improve defensively, and be able to get it done?

I’m sorry Ken . . but most of the fan base just isn’t buying that. I’m definitely not buying it. If Horford doesn’t become a bad azz at the center position, it probably isn’t going to happen via Jason Collins becoming a “tough guy” that we can throw at people.

We’ll win 50 games. We’re good enough to still have an exciting season. But please man. Don’t try to sell us on a dude like Jason Collins. Don’t try to sell us that scheme alone is going to get us over the hump.

The teams that dramatically improve in this league, almost always do it via a personnel change. A coaching change, for the most part, simply doesn’t do it.

We’re all Hawks fans. But we’re definitely on opposite ends of the spectrum on this issue.

northcyde

August 1st, 2010
1:24 am

drmaryb . . Woody did promote a lot of freelancing. He pretty much put the ball in JJ’s hands, and let him run the offense like an option QB in football. His offensive schemes definitely weren’t complex. You stop JJ, most of the time, you stop the offense.

Drew wants to give more responsibility to more people in the offense, so to make us less predictable. We’ll see if that works or not. And we’ll see if it makes Marvin a more aggressive and efficient player, or if he simply settles for whatever comes his way.

At the very least, Marvin could be an energy guy in the mold of what Childress was. But you only see him do that on rare occasions.

People are simply going to have to step up next year . .. from our $124 million dollar man on down.

drmaryb (*_*)

August 1st, 2010
2:58 am

NorhCyde

Joe made 124M doing what he did. He’s gonna come back next year and do it again.
A tiger doesn’t change his stripes, he’s not the reason this team got swept by an aggregate
of 101 points. It takes a TEAM to lose by that many, a very flawed system from the
ASG down to the equipment manager – period.

One man can’t be that bad or that good to overcome a 101r point deficit. This team had NO
PG and hasn’t for 13 years. This team has no BIG center and hasn’t for 13 years.

Unless Joe is buying the groceries and cooking the dinner? He can never be the problem.
LeBron couldn’t do it either – and he made a 100M before he ever saw the inside of a NBA locker room.
It’s called a NIKE SHOE CONTRACT!

Joe made 124M, because that’s what the Market valued his services for. Not because he robbed a bank with a ski mask and an Ouzie. How much money he makes really has nothing to do with HOW he plays
Basketball. That’s just what he is worth, whether we fans like it or NOT. And, believe me,
LeBron will triple that playing in Miami, when you add his endorsements and et. al.
Plus no state taxes. Joe will pay nearly 48% of that 124M in State and Federal taxes – believe that.

I really don’t care how much he makes, it’s not my money. Besides ASG will make 6 times what Joe makes off that deal anyways. TV, Merchandise, Tickets, etc. etc.

LeBron, Wade nor Dwight or Joe will win anything without help, at the very least a:
PG and a Center. That’s two positions you can not win without, unless you are Kobe or MJ!

The End

Fundamentals

August 1st, 2010
9:22 am

DrMaryB – I can agree that there were more problems in CLE than O’Neal. Miami will learn that when they implode under the pressure of too high expectations.They think they have the maturity, work ethic and desire of KG & Ray Allen, but they don’t. Pierce had to learn, he’s gained my respect over the years.

If Shaq could address Hawks fans and be honest about his desire to play here I might buy in? Long shot, but he needs to say, show and prove that he’s here for a ring. He’s here cause he thinks we’re his best opportunity. He’s here for TEAM, he’s here to push our kids to grow. I’m not sure that he’s that selfless. He’s always been focussed on his own party first, basketball when he needs to, and generally being lazy IMHO. Getting another team a ring would help his legacy. His last two stops haven’t shown much about his ethic IMHO.

I agree with other bloggers that Marvin hasn’t recovered mentally from the back injury. Does he fall alot cause he’s all out pushing the basket aggressively, or is he just uncoordinated? I personally think the kid needs to build strength to his core if he’s going to drive the bucket that hard again. He’s shown the ability to shoot the ball, but can’t stay involved enough to be ready. That shows more maturity and patience are needed. If he’s going to be part of our future he’s gotta be ready when the opportunity comes, he’s gotta be as strong as possible and he’s gotta keep pushing. We’ll know by Feb what we’ve got in Marvin under LD.

Collins will do better if given minutes. Yeah he had problems against Dwight, but he didn’t have any minutes to get his game speed and footwork back up to speed. For you Shaq lovers he didn’t need it to outwork Shaq on the court. I loved the night he embarrassed Shaq. I will also agree that he wasn’t the answer we were looking for. He’s gotta come into camp in shape, work hard and prove his value. I predict he’ll be the man in the suit all year long. Wasted spot, wasted salary, but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t be valuable to this team if he worked hard. Ask my wife I don’t prefer cheeseburgers.

drmaryb (*_*)

August 1st, 2010
9:36 am

Hrey Horford plays Center out of position pretty darned well, but as he said, “I am a natural PF.”

drmaryb (*_*)

August 1st, 2010
10:18 am

Fundamentals

You Sir, are a very smart man with an astute observation up there.
Shaq is what he is – Could he help the Hawks? Absolutely he can, on and off the court in spades.
The real question is, “Can we afford to pay him and Does he really want to come here and help the Hawks?

You guys are making a pretty silly assessment about Marvin’s phantom two year old pulled muscle in his lower back. But, I’m done educating lay people about how insignificant a mild sprain/strain is – two years affter the fact. I guess if yOU pulled a hamstring two years ago and get over it? Then YOU were never an athlete to begin with. That argument is beyond ludicrous, even for a three year old.

The bottom line is: Marvin is who he is and after 6 years his mold is set. The team need to help him realize his ROLE on this team and then put him in positions to be successful.

Like NorthCyde asked, ” Is he a PF or a SF? “. I add, ” Is he a starter or a back-up to the talent we currently have? “. And, is he like half the team, forced to play out of position and do things he clearly is not capable of doing?”. And, those questions have nothing to do with whether or not his pInky is hurting!

This game is also played 98% between the ears, so, does he have IT?
I haven’t seen IT in 6 years, so, I can surely say, ” He does NOT!”

Time to better the team and make some moves, or get used to: Stubborn is as Stubborn does!
Mr. Woodson was NOT the Stubborn one all by himself! He cooked what was in the refrigerator and made one tasty meal, in spite of a lack of KEY ingredients! If, you don’t believe me now, you will see it later.

Aye … I’m ready for some Falcon’s Football!

drmaryb (*_*)

August 1st, 2010
10:32 am

* I guess if YOU pulled a hamstring two years ago and CAN’T get over it?

Big Ray

August 1st, 2010
10:35 am

Ken Strickland ,

Shaq’s big and strong, but not tough? Wow. NEVER heard that one from anybody in or around the league. Tell me he doesn’t fight through injury anymore, and I’ll believe you. But whether or not you try and fight through injury is not the sole barometer for toughness, in my mind.

Northcyde ,

I figure Drew’s offense will either enhance what guys can do, or expose them. I think that those who are greatly anticipating Marvin finally “coming alive” or whatever might want to be aware of those two possibilities. As for Teague, I don’t see him taking the starting job for at least the first 25-30 games. But that’s just me. Yes, I know I’ve heavily defended him, but my point of contention was always about giving him consistent significant minutes (15-20 per game). I figure he’ll play at least 20 per game as long as he’s not a major turnover machine, but I am NOT expecting him to take the starting job right away, anymore than I EVER expected him to take the starting job last season. Sometimes people get overzealous on that point in their rush to bash Mike Bibby, who to be fair, did decline last season.

By the way, I have no idea why the blog monster found your “Atlanta perimeter/interior defensive stats” so tasty, but it swallowed it twice. I re-posted one of them….

Big Ray

August 1st, 2010
10:44 am

SteveW ,

I’m not here to bash Marvin, but in my opinion, he has always looked tentative. Oh sure, he has had a few games over the years wherein he showed an explosion of realized potential. One issue with that: he has never been able to string such games together in any way, shape or form. In fact, I think anybody would be hard-pressed to find more than a single instance in which Marvin scored above 17 points in back to back contests, much less in three games straight or more. If they did, that number of instances would certainly not reach double digits (I’m guessing).

Does that seem like a meaningless stat? Well, in ‘07-’08 or in ‘08-’09 it has less meaning, and the reason is because back then Marvin was at least a consistent and viable contributor on both offense, and on the glass. Last year he fell off of both wagons. The bottom line is that we drafted a guy who was a backup on his college team. Sorry, I don’t care how UNC was running things, the kid was a backup and a darn good one, but we drafted him like he was going to be anywhere from a team-leading scorer, to a superstar. And….he’s nowhere near anything of the type.

I think the vast majority of us would have been okay with him being a consistent contributor on both ends who deserved to hold down a starting spot. Maybe even a super sixth man like Lamar Odom (whose inconsistency is still maddening at times). But last year, Marvin regressed to the point of where he is neither. Which leaves us probably in a spot where all we can really wish for is the Marvin of two or three years ago. Because that guy we wanted to average over 18 ppg just isn’t coming, it seems. I don’t even know if 15+ ppg is realistic to hope for. But it would be nice…

Big Ray

August 1st, 2010
10:47 am

The crazy thing is, as long as Marvin is a starter for us, we need more than just the consistent, tough defense (which we got at times last season, but there were times when that wasn’t there either). With a lineup as athletic as ours, we have to be tougher and faster to the ball.

It can’t just be Al and Josh who play this way. It also has to be Marvin, else what’s the point in having three athletic 6′9″ types? What I think we really need out of Marvin is 14-15 ppg, good-to-great defense, and 6-7 rebounds per game.

If he can’t do something like that, then why hang onto him?

doc

August 1st, 2010
11:18 am

i am not sure where all tbis shaq bashing is coming from. he was hardly heard from last year it seemed like in comparison to years of old and took none of the spotlight away from the queen. he seemed to play his role well and they had the best record in the league after a somewhat stalled start,no? he also came back quickly from major surgery without any delay, played hard and didnt make any excuses though it was obvious the lay off had hurt him. it also probably hurt the team cohesion though not as much as the late season acquisition of a forward that did nothing in the spotlight and moving the big z. none of this was shaq’s doings or at his bequest. he certainly kept his ballin to the floor rather than the mother of the key cog in the cav wheel.

i also dont remember any shenanigan’s in phoenix, no demands for more time, the ball or out. when he was traded to the cavs he was graceful in his exit and i dont remember his flagellating on the suns as he left. why the acrimony for shaq as though he is going to be a bad influence in the hawks’ locker room. he hasnt been that since he left the heat. remember he responded when he got to the suns with hard work to rehab himself though many thought he was finished because of his hip injury? again where is the history of him being a “bad” teammate since he left the heat or a disruptive influence in the locker room?

drmaryb (*_*)

August 1st, 2010
11:24 am

Fundametals

One more thing, Shaq has no obligation nor platform to address the Hawks Fans about his intentions to play here?

He doesn’t even know who we are. That is a topic for the Agent and the GM of whatever team that
has expressed interest. Be it, the Celtics, Spurs, Hawks or any other team that may arise for that matter.

Last I checked, Shaq is an UFA! Where do you get all this stuff from?

drmaryb (*_*)

August 1st, 2010
11:56 am

Doc

Amen … Broither Man! Can I get a hallelujah from the congregation – this fine Sunday morning!

You nailed every single point on the head – blind folded! I don’t get all this ISH on Shaq either.
It seems like all the perennial losers on this blog have fallen in love with this team losing!

At least, I got someone like doc – who knows how to use a hammer with passion!
Aye … ASG! Go get Shaq and pay the man to come here and help us! Show him some Love!
I don’t eat Cheeseburgers or Chinese Food! We need a Steak and Lobster!

Gitter’ Done!

Macaroni Tony

August 1st, 2010
12:48 pm

its being talk of Juan Dixon to Atlanta, what do you all think of that?

drmaryb (*_*)

August 1st, 2010
1:11 pm

Juan Dixon? Who is that?

The Truth

August 1st, 2010
1:17 pm

Great, another backcourt bionic player

On November 1, 2009, Dixon signed with Aris Thessaloniki of the Greek A1 League.[6] The next season, he joined Unicaja Malaga of Spain. In February 2010, he was suspended indefinitely by FIBA after testing positive for steroids.[7]

drmaryb (*_*)

August 1st, 2010
1:36 pm

Shop Till You Drop!

Shaq shopping himself in Europe? He wants 10 M per year?

drmaryb (*_*)

August 1st, 2010
1:40 pm

LRMR

LeBron accused of Agent Tampering?

First CP3 fired his agent and joined LRMR.
Now, allegedly LRMR tried to and John Wall – but failed?

Will LeBron become the 1st NBA Player to make a Kewl Billion as a Mogul?
Or a Mole?

Ken Strickland

August 1st, 2010
1:44 pm

NORTHCYDE-There’s nothing HYPOTHETICAL about Shaq’s contract demands, his career long habit of nursing injuries and not being tough enough to play through pain or discomfort, or his disruptive attitude whenever he feels he’s not getting what he wants. THERE’S A DEFINITE REASON WHY THERE’S NOT ONE KEY PLAYER, OR TEAM, THAT HE’S EVER PLAYED WITH OR FOR WILL EVEN REMOTELY CONSIDER TAKING HIM BACK.

WHAT’S UP DOC-It has come out that Shaq did create some friction with the Cavaliers. I read where he voiced his displeasure with not receiving enough mins and scoring opportunities. I think he wanted more mins and scoring opportunities so he could pad his numbers, in order to have more bargaining power when he made the contract demands he’s now making.

The Cavaliers lost LaBron and Ilgauskas, yet have refused to give resigning Shaq a single thought. If those negative comments were unfounded, don’t you think they would have at least offered him a token contract, assuming they honestly thought he was what he, and some Hawks fans, think he is?

I just don’t see why the Hawks, or Hawk fans, should feel more desperate than any other team about the need to sign one player to contain DHoward, or that Shaq is our only solution at this point.

Look, we can make this Shaq issue go on and on. Why, because he’s given everyone enough fuel over his career, and recently, to fan the flames on all opinions of him and what he can, will and/or won’t do. Personally, I don’t think we need him, but I certainly wouldn’t classify signing him as a waste of time either. Nor will I make an issue of us signing him, if we do, like some of our fans do when certain players they like or dislike are either signed or not signed.

My intention isn’t to argue, or try to prove any one’s opinion about Shaq, or what he can contribute, wrong. I’m just offering my personal opinion, along with explanations for that opinion, period. If he’s signed and comes in here and makes a positive difference, few Hawk fans will be as excited as yours truly. Bottom line for me, GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

drmaryb (*_*)

August 1st, 2010
1:49 pm

* tried to Land John Wall …..

drmaryb (*_*)

August 1st, 2010
1:58 pm

Ken Strickland

After re-signing Joe? The Hawks haven’t signed ANY one player to improve the talent on the roster, to guard
Dwight or any other Big Center for that matter. Not ONE.

Astro Joe

August 1st, 2010
2:27 pm

Northcyde, it seems to me that Drew and Connorwill also create schemes that are undefeatable. I keep reading posts that make it sound like the opposing team did nothing right, Woody just did everything wrong. The opposing team didn;t score because they ran a good offense, it was because we ran the wrong defense. The offense wasn;t stopped by the opposing defense, but because Woody ran a predictable offense. It’s alll oretty ridiculous (INO) since we were ultimately stopped by a top 2 club (Orlando) who had the DPOY and one the better defenses in the league.

What I would say is that it will take a superlative coaching effort to get this current roster in the ECF. Anything short of “the best coaching in the franchise’s history” will likely result in yet another 2nd round exit.

Ken Strickland

August 1st, 2010
2:31 pm

DRMARYB-First, training camp hasn’t started yet, and I doubt if the Hawks interest in Shaq has faded much. If he retreats from his stubborn position of wanting to be a starter, or a key player receiving major mins, and a 2yr guaranteed contract, we still might sign him.

But I believe we have a backup plan, hence the lack of a sense of urgency from RSund in giving into his unrealistic demands. Whether we sign Shaq or not, I believe LDrew and LConnor will still rely on a team DEF concept to get it done. With Shaq being injury prone, especially at age 38, we must still have a backup plan even with him aboard.

Remember, there have been few instances where teams have defeated the Magic by having one player capable of stopping, or even containing DHoward. The best strategy so far has been having perimeter players attacking the lane and getting him into early foul trouble. This effectively takes away his aggressiveness, which reduces the effective of their overall DEF. MBarnes was the only other starter that was regarded as more than an average defender without Dwight backing them up.

So, I feel we’ll have a solid plan in place to defend DHoward, with or without Shaq.

Astro Joe

August 1st, 2010
2:35 pm

To blame the previous coach for the offensive and defensive short-comings is to deny what the other team did to stop the Hawks. Seriously, does anyone truly believe that with a competent coach, this team is a sure-fire championship team? I don’t. We were eventually stopped by a very good defensive team and the 2-time DPOY. And that team was stopped by a recent championship winner. It’s nice to think that we’re elite but I’m not believing it.

I will agree that in order to avoid another 2nd round playoff exit, we will likely need a “best coaching job in franchise history”. Here’s hoping Drew and staff can make that happen.

Najeh Davenpoop

August 1st, 2010
2:46 pm

Juan Dixon… yeah, that’s exactly what this team needs, a 3rd string undersized shooting guard.