Hawks bits and pieces

Hang in there, Hawks fans. We’ll make it through this summer yet (or so I keep telling myself, anyway).

While things seem fairly quiet in free agency, and that would be for all NBA teams at the moment, a few tidbits are floating around that may prove to be a useful diversion for a minute or two. As we discuss those, I keep thinking about the missing Lorenzen Wright. Missing persons cases more often than not are either a false alarm, or they don’t end very nicely. But some do. And I hope that this is one of those where “all’s well that ends well.”  Peace and blessings on his family, who I’m sure are sick with worry. These kinds of things never seem to matter to people until they hit close to home. Again, I hope this ends well.

 

Tough Times

As much noise as we make about adding size and toughness to the roster, do we bother to consider that adding toughness doesn’t always mean adding a body? When the official announcement of the signing of former Lakers forward/center Josh Powell finally came down, one of the catch phrases was that he “adds toughness.” Well, if the Lakers say he’s a good guy and a good addition, I’ll take their word for it, at least to an extent. After all, Powell hasn’t played many minutes in L.A., so we don’t have a lot of visual evidence to review (other than some youtube clips) for confirmation. But what about the guys who were already on the roster? Can’t you add toughness….by simply becoming tougher?

If you ask me (and you didn’t, but guess what?) toughness is a state of mind. The body can be willing and able, but it’s no good if the spirit is weak. Avid Hawks fan and blogger Northcyde is one of the foremost fans calling for two of our key guys (Al Horford and Josh Smith) to play a lot tougher, as the success of this team depends heavily on that. Realistically, that can be the key difference between competing at the highest levels, or struggling to do so. Look no further than last season’s first round playoff series. The Hawks struggled mightily when Al Horford allowed himself to get out-toughed by Kurt Thomas, and Josh Smith allowed Ersan Ilyasova to out-hustle and outplay him for stretches at a time.

So what can the Hawks do to get tougher? What are Josh Smith and Marvin Williams doing to get tougher. Those are two guys who could really have an impact on the game if they bring it with more force. In fact, that’s the one thing that can really optimize a lineup of long, athletic players. Without it, much is wasted.

How does one change one’s mindset? Different people have different methods. And sometimes the body has to be brought up to speed with the mind. The idea is to be tough all the time, not just when backed into a corner and forced into “fight or flight” mode. Well, it seems one Hawk is going to give it a go in the offseason.  As noted on NBA.com (on the Atlanta Hawks official site), backup center Zaza Pachulia has added to his offseason regimen, and the results might be more than just better conditioning, footwork, and overall stamina. It might just result in a tougher approach to the game. All I can say is watch out Kevin Garnett! I still love that moment in Hawks history…

 

The “other” Star Guard

According to ESPN.com, Hawks super sub Jamal Crawford would like to discuss money matters. He wants to remain a Hawk, and I’m sure any Hawks spokesperson would likely state that they would like to keep him around. And while Jamal has been around the league for a decade (and been with several teams), he may as well get comfortable wherever he is sitting. After all, things don’t tend to happen around the front office at lightning speed. Especially if they don’t really have to. The question is, do the Hawks want him to finish out his career in Atlanta? Might they see him as a two way asset, or has he proven himself to be indispensable? Jamal seemed to fit in pretty darn well, and that is not likely to change under new head coach Larry Drew. But, if the Hawks are very slow or otherwise noncommittal to signing him to an extension, what might it be an indication of? Of course, a number of theories could abound. Understandably, they may be more focused on preparing an extension offer to Al Horford. Or, they may have other moves up their sleeve. You just never know. But, for the sake of the sanity of blogger Steve Brown, I won’t mention one of the most obvious and talked about (by others, not just me) possibilities.

In the meantime, I wish I could be an invisible fly on the wall in training camp. If for no other reason than to watch Jamal Crawford playing against Jordan Crawford. That would have to be a fun matchup, no?

560 comments Add your comment

Big Ray

July 31st, 2010
2:54 pm

dap01 ,

Michael Cunningham is on vacation. He’ll be back around August 2nd or so. I don’t know if he will have much to report, but we shall see.

O’brien ,

I think the issue with ISOs in the 4th quarter is that we predictably would go to them then, and even before then. We had a lot of bad scoring 3rd quarters as well, you know. At the same time, a lot of teams will go to isolations in the 4th quarter. The difference tends to be the spacing, I think. With spacing comes options in any offensive scheme, but certainly when employing the isolation. Furthermore, if a team’s spacing is correct, they don’t have to live and die with only the original executor of the ISO play. In other words, properly spaced, if the ISO play breaks down or a help defender comes over, somebody is open, and a viable offensive attack is still in play.

I believe this is what Larry Drew is trying to do. He wants everybody on the floor in attack mode at all times, and that will require proper spacing, which will do wonders for this team and allow it to be more offensively efficient and potent than it’s ever been. Which is one key, as Astro Joe mentioned before, to beating teams like Orlando.

In the end, I don’t see the ISO going away, just being better utilized, and no longer being the backbone and definition of our offense. I think all good teams that have a player or two capable of doing so, utilize this method of attack.

Big Ray

July 31st, 2010
2:55 pm

Vava ,

Do you think effort was ever a factor?

The Truth

July 31st, 2010
2:57 pm

O’Brien

Our fourth quarter scoring droughts could have also been the results of just good defense by our opponents. On other occasions like in the Bucks series (for example) as good as we were on offense they just offensively paced us and stole some games in the end. This fixation on just the Hawks offense is really my point. We aren’t going very far in just having an offensive mindset alone.

Big Ray

July 31st, 2010
3:01 pm

bigdave ,

I don’t know if Dwight is itching to come back to Atlanta, but if Orlando gets stuck in a rut, he might very well get tired of playing for Van Gundy. And by the time his contract is up, we’ll know what kind of head coach Larry Drew is. So will a lot of other guys around the league. Imagine if Drew manages to attract other players? Heh…I could be reaching….

Big Ray

July 31st, 2010
3:02 pm

The Truth

True dat. No pun intended. :)

vava74

July 31st, 2010
3:09 pm

Ray,

Yes, effort was an issue – that falls under point 3.

At some point some players were tired of having to provide defense for themselves and for others (mainly Bibby and Jamal).

OB, Ray,

In 99% of the cases our scoring droughts were caused by lack of any offensive variation.

ISO plays can be effective, in particular when executed by guys like JJ or Jamal who are very creative and able to produce points under those circumstances, however, for that to happen you need to keep defenses honest with other possibilities.

It’s completely different to defend an ISO play where you know that nothing else will happen beyond dribble dribble bad shot (or under-pressure-late-in-the-clock-pass) with zero personnel movement that an ISO play where you have no idea if it will actually go ISO all the way or if other ORCHESTRATED AND ORGANIZED possibilities will come into action.

The Truth

July 31st, 2010
3:24 pm

vava74

Even though Drew has hired a new assistant, he has publicly given us insight into his new defensive philosophy which is as I described. I have not prematurely judged the future of the Hawks; I’ve just reviewed the past for insight into the future. While there maybe some excitement about the new coach lets not pretend the media introduction of him was something more then just his offense. It was all about his motion offense. There is nothing wrong with that as he correctly hired some help in the defense area. But I’m thinking the help will not be bringing anything new; just executing the defense within his philosophy.

Ken Strickland

July 31st, 2010
3:40 pm

NORTHCYDE-6′5″ MEvans is our only backup SF, and you’re suggesting we trade our STARTING SF to acquire an egotistical over the hill backup center who’s made it perfectly clear he doesn’t want to be a backup. I DON’T THINK SO. Marvin definitely has the ability to get better in several areas, but not Shaq. With him, we could end up with a bigger, taller version of MBibby.

Tell me, how many teams can you name with one player that’s capable of consistently stopping or containing DHoward? If Woodson was still our HC, I’d say sign Shaq as quickly as possible, because there’s no way he’d come up with a team strategy to get it done, or seek help help from someone who could.

Teams with HC’s that have above average basketball IQ’s recognized DHoward was foul prone. They kept kept him moving by keeping the ball moving, which forced him to cover more territory. Then they attacked the lane, which forced him to cover more territory in provide DEF help. Him often being out of position and trying to provide help DEF often caused him to foul.

Woodson’s approach was to shoot jump shots and stay out of the lane and away from Howard. JUST BECAUSE WOODSON COULDN’T COME WITH A SINGLE THOUGHT OR IDEA THAT WOULD MAKE US EVEN COMPETITIVE AGAINST THE MAGIC, DOESN’T AUTOMATICALLY MEAN IT WILL REMAIN THE SAME UNDER LDREW. The Bulls have improve their talent, but it doesn’t automatically mean they’re a better team. We won 3 of 4 gms against the Bulls, and dominated them in our 3 wins, and 1 OT loss. Their projected improvement might close the gap, but there’s no way anyone can realistically say they’ve automatically become better than us?

We won 6 of 10 against the Bucks and we lost 3 of 4 to the Knicks, a far inferior team. All I’m trying to say is if teams that finished below is improve, and we also improve, albeit in different ways, why automatically assume their improvement is more note worthy than ours?

Ken Strickland

July 31st, 2010
4:13 pm

THE TRUTH-Yes, we hired an OFF minded HC. And despite us averaging 101.7PPG, which was right with the Lakers as you said, we still had some serious OFF issues with our ISO dependent OFF. These issues were largely masked during the regular season, due to teams having limited preparation time, but that certainly wasn’t the case in the playoffs.

You omitted one very important fact. HC LDrew, the OFF minded HC we hired, also hired a DEF(LConnor) minded assistant to handle those DEF issue. Right off the bat, LConnor said he’s eliminating the switching DEF, having everyone play man to man, fight over picks, and carry their own weight defensively. Woodson’s ego driven approach, where he made every decision and put his footprint on everything, is now a thing of the past.

Why replace MWilliams if we can make him better? If DEF was our major problem under Woodson, especially our perimeter DEF, why insist on starting and giving major mins to one of the NBA’s slowest, most limited, least athletic, and worse perimeter defenders? I think consistently giving significant mins to PG JTeague, and using Bibby’s experience, savvy and OFF skills to supplement his skills will make an them an excellent duo. All of Bibby’s weaknesses are Teague’s strengths, and Teague’s weaknesses are Bibby’s strengths.

SteveW

July 31st, 2010
4:31 pm

Rasho gone to Greece – he’s off the table

2 big centers left – Shaq and Kwame

2 small centers/PF’s left of quality – Tolliver and Boone

Watched Kwame – enormously talented athlete – mentally, he’s gone right now. When he touches the basketball, he has no idea what to do with it. Looks like he’s just trying not to get booed, like he did in LA.

If somebody could work with him – great athlete.

Athlete he most reminds me of when he touches the basketball? Unfortunatly, Marvin Williams. No basketball IQ, great athlete.

Rebounding is another area of concern in our PF/C position.

In the Total Rebounding stats the NBA does (some formula per player/other team while player on court etc., not just how many individual rebounds did someone avg. per game):

Among Centers – Horford 31st
ZaZa 50th

PF’s – Joe Smith 17th
Josh Smith 33rd

SF – Marvin 17th

We need help down low.

SteveW

July 31st, 2010
4:37 pm

Agree with Nire – Shaq a locker room cancer – 1st year HC – young team – he may destroy them. Or he could lead them too a title. Big risk, but basketball people say, he’s just what the Hawks need skill set wise.

Tolliver would probably be perfect for our Offense – but not much help versus Dwight.

Also, the Heat have nobody down low – a big body will give them problems. Again, most basketball people give the Lakers the edge against the Heat because of Andrew Bynum.

I also think the Magic are going to give the Heat fits – Jameer will own Chalmers at the point, and the Heat have nobody to stop Howard/Gortat.

niremetal

July 31st, 2010
4:38 pm

SteveW,

Did you really just say Marvin has no basketball IQ? Marvin’s basketball IQ is just about the only thing that people DON’T criticize him for, and for good reason.

northcyde

July 31st, 2010
4:38 pm

Truth . . what in the world are you looking at?

I see nothing on that link that would indicate that Boston was 29th in the league in defense. Boston was one of the best defensive teams in the league last year. What killed Boston at times, were turnovers on offense and their inability to grab offensive rebounds. Their great ball movement last year saw them shoot a high FG%, but also resulted in a ton of turnovers. But their defense saved them the vast majority of the time.

The following stats come from basketball-reference.com

ATLANTA OFFENSE

Offensive rating: 2nd
PPG: 12th
Pace: 27th

eFG%: 16th
Turnover %: 1st
Offensive rebound %: 5th
FT/FGA: 23rd

BOSTON OFFENSE

Offensive rating: 15th
PPG: 19th
Pace: 23rd

eFG%: 5th
Turnover %: 27th
Offensive rebs: 28th
FT/FGA: 6th

LA LAKERS OFFENSE

Offensive rating: 11th
PPG: 13th
Pace: 14th

eFG%: 17th
Turnover %: 5th
Offensive rebs %: 10th
FT/FGA: 18th

***************************

ATLANTA DEFENSE

Defensive rating: 13th
Def. PPG: 9th

Def. eFG%: 16th
Opp. turnover %: 19th
Defensive rebs %: 24th
Opp. FT/FGA: 8th

BOSTON DEFENSE

Defensive rating: 5th
Def. PPG: 5th

Opp. eFG%: 9th
Opp. turnover %: 2nd
Defensive rebs %: 14th
FT/FGA: 24th

LA LAKERS DEFENSE

Defensive rating: 4th
PPG: 10th

Opp. eFG%: 6th
Opp. turnover%: 20th
Defensive rebs %: 9th
Opp. FT/FGA: 2nd

*************************

If anything, the slower pace that we played, was one of the determining factors in why our defense wasn’t worse than what it was. But the overall point that you were trying to make though Truth, is clear. The Hawks defense is one of the major issues that holds us back, not the offense.

The 4 stats to watch this season, are the eFG% and Turnover % stats on offense, and the eFG% and defensive rebounding % stats on defense.

We were by far the best team in the league on offense in not turning the ball over. If the new offense causes us to turn the ball over more, without seeing an increase in our eFG%, then Drew’s offense will actually become a detriment. If the Turnover % is still in the top 5, but our eFG% jumps into the top 10, then Drew’s offense is working.

On the defensive side, we also need to see an improvement in the Defensive eFG% that jumps into the top 10, while improving our Defensive rebounding %. Both Boston and LA have Defensive eFG% in the top 10. The top 10 Defensive eFG% teams last year:

1) Orlando
2) Miami
3) Cleveland
4) San Antonio
5) OK City

6) LA Lakers
7) Chicago
8) Miwaukee
9) Boston
10) Indiana ( the only team in this group not to make the playoffs )

The only other playoff team to have a lower Defensive eFG% than the Hawks, was Portland, who ranked 17th.

People villify the switching defense, but it did work at times. But maybe we relied on it a little too much. We’ll see this season if these guys are able to play more straight up defense and be better overall . . or worse.

niremetal

July 31st, 2010
4:39 pm

There’s a difference between coordination and basketball IQ. Marvin’s long on the latter and short on the former.

SteveW

July 31st, 2010
4:43 pm

Horford Averaged 8ppg and 7rpg against Dwight – Dwight averaged 21ppg and 16.8rpg against us. It’s not just Howard – they have Gortat also. The Magic said there are only 10 legit Centers in the NBA, and they have 2 of them – and drafted Orton at 29 to try and eventually have 3 i guess.

drmaryb (*_*)

July 31st, 2010
4:44 pm

Chinese Buffet!

This team reminds me of a Chinese Buffet: lots of vegetables and not enough meat.
I hate Chinese Food. A pile of rice and a ton of vegetables, you can count the pieces of chicken on one hand.

Not a good value for the money. It gets worse when you order beef or shrimp.

Really great comments!
Even when you guys disagree – You actually all agree!

After reading 10,000 Blogs, the general consensus is that we need:

Defense
Rebounding
PG
Center

Nothing has changed in that regard over the past 6 years – not one thing.

Yawn, roll – over and back to sleep.

SteveW

July 31st, 2010
4:56 pm

Do I think a 39 year old Shaq can lead us to a title? Yes, if he’s fit, avoids injury and keeps a good attitude.

Do I think a 39 year old Shaq can set us back 2 years? Yes, if he’s a locker room and public cancer.

If he’s just injured alot – we end up somewhere between the 2 extremes.

We actually match up well with the Lakers with Shaq:

PG- Fisher/Blake – Teague/Bibby – Lakers more experienced – but they can’t keep up with Teague – Slight adv. – Lakers

SG – Kobe vs. JJ/Jamal – Kobe is older, coming off knee surgery – and we can throw 2 guys at him – but he’s still Kobe – Slight adv. – Lakers

Frontcourt:

SF – Lakers – Artest/Barnes – better than Marvin?Mo’ – Adv. – Lakers

PF – Lakers – Gasol/Odom/Walton – vs Josh/Powell/sometimes Horford – Adv. – Lakers, but not by much with Horford in the mix

C- Lakers – Bynum and sometimes Odom vs Horford/ZaZa/Shaq – this would be the 1 area we would have a very definite advantage on the Lakers – and if Teague uses his quickness and develops during the season into a serviceable PG against Fisher/Blake – JJ and Jamal can together wear down Kobe – Marvin stays healthy and thrives in Drew’s offense – Josh S. stays healthy – we can take these guys (the Lakers)!

As constituted -with many other variable in mind – our only realistic chance at a title this year is Shaq. (Of course DWade could go down, Kobe could get hurt etc. – I’m saying all things equal).

SteveW

July 31st, 2010
4:58 pm

Drmaryb – couldn’t agree with about your last 7 or 8 posts more!

PG and C are a little better than in years past BTW

SteveW

July 31st, 2010
5:05 pm

Supertrade – Bibby – Mo’ – 1st pick to Cavs for

Shaq – Mo Williams

use 3.66m trade exception

sign Trey Gilder to back up Marvin

They may take it to have Bibby train Ramon Sessions at PG – and get something rather nothing for Shaq

We then match up well with ORL.

Shaq would have to agree to sign for less than the MLE in this scenario – about 3m per.

SteveW

July 31st, 2010
5:11 pm

Nire – probably right on right on Marvin – only talking on the Offensive side of the ball – very good defender.

Marvin just looks like he’s not sure what to do when he gets the rock sometimes. Maybe that had to do with Woody.

Unlike Bibby – when he get’s the ball – he looks like he knows exactly what to do with it anywhere on the court.

Is it confidence maybe? Both Kwame and Marvin didn’t have much high level basketball experience before the NBA.

SteveW

July 31st, 2010
5:12 pm

1 too many “right on” in 1st sentence of last post – my bad!

drmaryb (*_*)

July 31st, 2010
5:22 pm

SteveW

Your posts are fantastic and I look forward to reading you daily.
For the life of me, I can’t figure out WHY a perennial loser like the Hawks can make so many
lame excuses about why we can’t sign this guy or that guy? Or, why this guy doesn’t fit our team and may
ruin our CHEMITRY?

Are you kidding me? How much CHEMISTRY does it take to be a perennial loser?
Aye … ASG! Just sign Shaq for the love of basketball – and stop bytching!

Geez!

niremetal

July 31st, 2010
5:28 pm

SteveW,

I think your 5:11 nailed it – Marvin has no confidence and is unsure of what to do when he gets the rock. At least that was the case last season. The odd thing was that ‘07-’08 and ‘08-’09 Marvin played with much more confidence offensively – and noticeably less confidence defensively. I am in the “blame Woody” camp as to the reason why. I just hope it’s not too late for him to turn it around and get back to his pre-back injury form.

northcyde

July 31st, 2010
5:36 pm

Are the Hawks a better defensive interior defensive team, or a better perimeter defensive team? Let’s find out.

The following is from hoopdata.com

League Averages:

AT RIM – 61%
< 10 FT – 44.1%
10 – 15 FT – 39.8%
16 – 23 FT – 39.6%
3 POINTERS – 53.2% ( eFG% )

Hawks Defense

AT RIM: 60.7% ( 16th in the league . . 3rd worst amongst playoff teams . . only Dallas and Portland were worse )

< 10 FT: 41.4% ( 6th in the league )

10 – 15 FT: 37.5% ( 3rd in the league )

16 – 23 FT: 41.1% ( 23rd in the league . . . worst amongst playoff teams )

3 POINTERS: 51.7% ( 9th in the league )

****************

People shouldn't be too shocked by this. We tend to have trouble defending at the rim, and especially at the mid-range. Defending the 3 pointer isn't the problem, it's defending that deep 2 point jumper that is the problem. The 21 footer that people seem to always be wide open on.

******************

Just for the hell of it, let me see how we look offensively.

Once again, these are the league averages:

AT RIM – 61%
< 10 FT – 44.1%
10 – 15 FT – 39.8%
16 – 23 FT – 39.6%
3 POINTERS – 53.2% ( eFG% )

Hawks Offense

AT RIM: 63.1% ( 8th in the league )

< 10 FT: 44.2% ( 14th in the league )

10 – 15 FT: 41% ( 11th in the league )

16 – 23 FT: 39.5% ( 18th in the league )

3 POINTERS: 54% ( 9th in the league )

This shouldn't surprise many people either. When we do get to the rim, we score pretty well. The problem is that we don't get to the rim enough. Meanwhile, we're just an average long midrange shooting team. The disturbing part of that stat, is that we were 5th in the league in attempts from that range, but ranked 18th in percentage.

You can attribute JJ and Crawford settling for long 2's, as well as Marvin missing, and Josh taking ill-advised 2 pointers, as the reason why our percentage from this range is simply at the league average.

Will the new offense create more shot attempts at point blank range, or more open jumpers out on the midrange . .and for the right people? Can Teague penetrate enough to get to the rim and make his own shot, or set up others for easy shots. That's going to be the big questions next season on offense.

drmaryb (*_*)

July 31st, 2010
5:48 pm

Woody … Woody. …. Woody … POODY!

For Christ’s Sakes! Woody is GONE people!
Yall are gonna’ kill him dead and BLAME him for 911! Why not add World Hunger!

IF Marvin Sucks? That’s because Marvin Sucks !!!

Aye ASG! Sign Shaq and go on vacation!

The Truth

July 31st, 2010
5:53 pm

northcyde

“Truth . . what in the world are you looking at?”

I was shock too, but to find it per my link, you have to select under the category button “defensive” and click update. You see the Team Defensive Statistics for 2009-2010, Boston in 29th position. Since this stat is under NBA.com website I have to assume it is accurate

I don’t make this stuff up

northcyde

July 31st, 2010
6:21 pm

One of the main problems with Marvin, is that he’s never been a “go-to scorer” since high school. At UNC, he was simply a complimentary player.

Some people have long said that Marvin’s best position may be PF, instead of SF. But he shoots well enough ( at times ) to be a big SF. It would be interesting though, if he went to a team that played him at PF, if he would become a much better player than he is at SF.

I know for a fact that he’s a better PF than Josh Powell.

And Ken . . . yes I would trade Marvin for Shaq, because I know Shaq gives us something that we don’t have . . . interior toughness. Marvin, at SF, is really going to have to start becoming either a lights-out open jumpshot shooter, a lockdown defender, or the type of slasher that he showed flashes of becoming 2 years ago.

My concern with Marvin, is the concern that everybody else shares . . his desire to improve and be a better player. The desire just isn’t there at times. People can blame the coach all they want, but other players who have come here didn’t have any problem whatsoever in being aggressive.

He can’t continue to let the “new guy” come in and take some of his shine away from him. To me, he seems like a player that will never reach his potential, unless it’s for sure that he’s the #1 or #2 guy on a team. His willingness to be a complimentary player is an asset, but not one that will ever see him become a real good player.

northcyde

July 31st, 2010
6:25 pm

Just for clarification . . . Truth, the stat in which you saw Boston being 29th in, was in rebounding. Boston was a weak rebounding team last year, especially on the offensive boards.

But they were excellent overall on defense.

niremetal

July 31st, 2010
6:45 pm

Drmaryb,

I blame Jason Collins, Dennis Scott, and Shaq for World Hunger, not Woody.

drmaryb (*_*)

July 31st, 2010
7:01 pm

NorthCyde

You nailed it on Marvin! He is NOT a starting SF at the NBA level. He has proven that to ad nauseum.
He may be a fine back-up PF to Josh and Al as you eluded to the fact he may be a better PF.

That means we need a SF and we had one in Childress, but we know how that turned out.
One fundamental flaw that I have mentioned in regards to this team, is there are too many players that are playing out of position, back-ups included.

We got one aging PG
Three PF’s (w/Marvin)
Three combo guards (Jamal & Teague & Jo.Craw)

JJ is the only SG
Maurice? (What is he? SG/SF?)

Too many square pegs crammed in round holes if you ask me.
And, no clearly defined roles outside of Joe & Al.

A pile of Hot-Pieces, if you ask me.

drmaryb (*_*)

July 31st, 2010
7:04 pm

Nire

That was – Rich! -smile-

Aye … You busted on D-Scott too? Oh no! That’s my boy!

ROF

SteveW

July 31st, 2010
7:04 pm

Northcyde – I wouldn’t trade Marvin for Shaq.

Marvin hurt his back pretty severely in ‘09.

He tried to gut it out for the playoffs – but I think it hindered his offseason last year, and he played tenatively this year.

I would give him this year to see if he’s gonna start back improving, or is he permanetly set back.

Hawks officials probably know how he’s spending his summer. If he’s in full workout, get better mode – good

Anything less – not so good – and then I would trade him.

drmaryb (*_*)

July 31st, 2010
7:45 pm

SteveW

I specialize in spinal care. That was 2 years ago man! He just had a mild to moderate
muscle sprain/strain. That was not serious. I heard no mention of any back problems this year?

Man, Yall need to stop baby-sitting Marvin. Dude making 35 Million, he don’t need sympathy too.
Man up and play, play with some fire, heart and passion – I say.

Sautee

July 31st, 2010
8:03 pm

It’s not for nothing that nire’s new pet phrase is “not for nothing” ;-)

Ken Strickland

July 31st, 2010
8:05 pm

NORTHCYDE-you act like Marvin’s 10.1PPG represents the highest pt total of his career, or the absolute best he can do. While he definitely had a down yr scoring wise last yr, he did play very good DEF. The reduction in his scoring, from a high of 14.7PPG to 10.1PPG, reflects his annual demotion in the OFF pecking order with the acquisition of Bibby, FMurray and then JaCrawford.

You seem convinced Shaq is somehow going to bring us this much needed toughness coming off the bench. Tell me, where was all of this toughness when he was with the Cavaliers, or the Suns? If he’s so damned tough, why has he nursed so many sprains into so many missed gms? Shaq is big and he’s strong, BUT HE AINT TOUGH.

The following is a partial list of teams that defeated Orlando last yr. The Bobcats, Hornets, Grizzles, Trail blazers, Raptors, Nuggets, Pacers, Bulls, Suns, Jazz, Thunder, Pistons, Wizards and Heat(who beat them twice). Can you name the individual center on each team that was responsible for stopping DHoward? YOU ARE FOCUSED ON TRYING TO STOP ONE PLAYER, WHICH IS HOW WOODSON THOUGHT.

At this point, how many GM’s and/or HC’s do you think are as overly concerned about stopping DHoward as you seem to be? And how many of those GM’s and HC’s think Shaq is the answer? THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION JUST MIGHT EXPLAIN TO YOU WHY HE’S STILL AVAILABLE?

niremetal

July 31st, 2010
8:17 pm

Drmaryb,

You may specialize in spinal care, but I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess that you never examined Marvin, and thus have no idea what the extent of his injury was. Sports teams generally use misdirection as far as how serious their players’ injuries are, and given that Marvin was in a contract year, he had an incentive to downplay its seriousness as well.

In any case, specialist or not, you shouldn’t pull a Bill Frist and express a medical opinion regarding the physical state of someone you’ve never examined.

niremetal

July 31st, 2010
8:18 pm

Sautee,

That ain’t new. Not for nothing, but I’ve been saying that ever since I started watching West Wing and Sports Night about a decade ago ;)

Ken Strickland

July 31st, 2010
8:23 pm

STEVEW-you mentioned Marvin hurting his back, and that he still tried to tough it out. HAVE YOU EVER HEARD ANYONE SAY THAT ABOUT SHAQ? Oh, and for the record, DHoward averaged 17.1PPG and 11.1RPG in the 3gms they went head to head. This is what worries me most about us signing Shaq. He might lower his demands just to get us to offer him a contract. Then, once he gets his contract, he might come in and try to force LDrew into giving him more mins and more scoring opportunities by becoming, or threatening to become, a disruption.

drmaryb (*_*)

July 31st, 2010
8:32 pm

Ken Strickland

You make very strong points against Shaq coming here. But, we need that piece, not for the regular season
but the play-offs. Those teams that beat Orlando in the regular, could not beat Orlando in a best of
7 consecutive games.

The play-offs is another animal. It’s about match-ups! The Hawks are a BIG and very
long and athletic team. We just need a solid defensive scheme and some solid set plays!

Outside of LeBron, the Cavaliers weren’t very good at all.
The Suns, run too much and never played ANY defense at all – until last year.

Shaq does fake injuries during the regular season, he did that in LA too. Kobe’s main gripe was that
Shaq was lazy and not serious enough in practice and in general. When younger,
I think Shaq relied on his size and strength in lieu of focus and intensity.
Much, like Vick did in Atlanta, he never really committed to learning the play book and working hard with the team.

Allen Iverson, had the same attitude through out his career: remember his rant about – PRACTICE? With Larry Brown?

Here’s my point: Shaq did not fit those other teams, (Cavs & Suns) – True Dat!
But, that doesn’t mean he can’t help the Hawks get past round 2 and maybe WIN a title?

We are not those teams! If we had Doc as a HC, he could definitely utilize Shaq’s talents for the
betterment of the team! Who knows, maybe DREW can too! Either way, when you listen to Doc’s huddles –
It’s always TOGETHER and TEAM! I hope Drew runs an identical huddle next year!

Dwight said it best: The Hawks are a very BIG TEAM! You can thank ole’ Billy-Boy Knight for the size we have, and bash him for the PG situation for the next 20 years! He really screwed us with that CP3 Snub!

Oh Well! I say beggars can’t be choosy and we need a big! I’ll take Shaq in a minute!

High Risk – High Reward!

“You can not steal Second base – If, your foot is still on First!”

Fundamentals

July 31st, 2010
8:54 pm

To me Shaq will be as useful as Collins on D. Collins can do great work on D on most anyone, but he doesn’t have the footspeed to keep up with Dwight. Shaq won’t either. He’s old, overweight and slow. He’s not the answer.

We need someone young, quick who’s long and strong. Someone who loves to eat the glass and can block a few shots. Who is that mythical prospect? Can’t say. I know it’s not Shaq. I liked some of the D-League kids last Feb as options. I think Ajinca could be had cheap.

Youth is the low risk, high reward. Look into it PLEASE!

Shaq is an old, slow cancer waiting to set us back years!

Fundamentals

July 31st, 2010
8:56 pm

You can get picked off headed to 2nd if your runner is too slow. FOOTSPEED please!

drmaryb (*_*)

July 31st, 2010
9:00 pm

Well we have nothing and Shaq is better than nothing.
Yall can draw up these imaginary people all you want, until then, we need a live person.

Say what you want, we will not WIN 53 and get past round 1 by doing nothing.
IF you don’t believe me? Ask Al! He knows better than me or you.

Are you saying the Big Alien is better than Shaq? Because we don’t have him either, he’s in Miami.

Fundamentals

July 31st, 2010
9:05 pm

As much as I know it’ll hurt Al’s feelings I’m saying I’d rather have a roster vacancy than to sign Shaq. I’d rather give up Mo, Bibby, the 3 million TPE to get someone instead of Shaq.

The only way I’d say Shaq is an option would be to see that he’s lost weight, he’s determined to show ORL, Miami & CLE what he has left for a reunion with Kobe to battle out he who dies with the most rings wins. Instead he’s out partying and worried about his TV show while faking injuries, getting divorced and derailing yet another team. THE GUY IS DONE!

drmaryb (*_*)

July 31st, 2010
9:06 pm

Fundamentals

I guess you LIKE the core too!
Well, this core is NOT good enough to get to second either.
So, you can sit on first and whine all year! And, when you do? I don’t want to hear it!

If Boston had the money? Shaq would be in Bean Town – ight?

drmaryb (*_*)

July 31st, 2010
9:12 pm

Reese’s Pieces!

When a HC looks down that bench? What will he see? Jason Collins?

Good Luck with that! You guys need to put that Joy-Stick down and get a reality check!
This team has too many holes in it, while the East Coast just created a Montser.

Go Figure!

Fundamentals

July 31st, 2010
9:14 pm

I’m not saying I love our core either. You’re a bit too over the top all of the sudden on Shaq. I just think we need footspeed, strength and youth to keep up with Dwight. The kid is too strong, too fast and too young for Shaq.

I’d trade anyone on the team for ample return with maybe the exception of Joe, Al and maybe Josh. That said Josh needs to show some maturity and discipline this year.

Just cause I don’t like Shaq you can’t throw me under the bus.

I actually believe LD and his crew can do a little better than Woody’s stubborn ways.

Fundamentals

July 31st, 2010
9:15 pm

I didn’t ask for Collins. I didn’t ask for Powell, but at least Powell has youth on his side as well as home cooking and a ring to push him along.

Fundamentals

July 31st, 2010
9:16 pm

What is your opinion of Okafor if they’re trying to dump him? What can we get him for? He was a good defensive center?

drmaryb (*_*)

July 31st, 2010
9:21 pm

Fundamentals

Name your man then. If not Shaq, then who? Because, the Hawks as is? Ain’t scaring NOBODY!

Fundamentals

July 31st, 2010
9:23 pm

Dalembert, Okafur, Pryzbilla should be attainable?