Hawks bits and pieces

Hang in there, Hawks fans. We’ll make it through this summer yet (or so I keep telling myself, anyway).

While things seem fairly quiet in free agency, and that would be for all NBA teams at the moment, a few tidbits are floating around that may prove to be a useful diversion for a minute or two. As we discuss those, I keep thinking about the missing Lorenzen Wright. Missing persons cases more often than not are either a false alarm, or they don’t end very nicely. But some do. And I hope that this is one of those where “all’s well that ends well.”  Peace and blessings on his family, who I’m sure are sick with worry. These kinds of things never seem to matter to people until they hit close to home. Again, I hope this ends well.

 

Tough Times

As much noise as we make about adding size and toughness to the roster, do we bother to consider that adding toughness doesn’t always mean adding a body? When the official announcement of the signing of former Lakers forward/center Josh Powell finally came down, one of the catch phrases was that he “adds toughness.” Well, if the Lakers say he’s a good guy and a good addition, I’ll take their word for it, at least to an extent. After all, Powell hasn’t played many minutes in L.A., so we don’t have a lot of visual evidence to review (other than some youtube clips) for confirmation. But what about the guys who were already on the roster? Can’t you add toughness….by simply becoming tougher?

If you ask me (and you didn’t, but guess what?) toughness is a state of mind. The body can be willing and able, but it’s no good if the spirit is weak. Avid Hawks fan and blogger Northcyde is one of the foremost fans calling for two of our key guys (Al Horford and Josh Smith) to play a lot tougher, as the success of this team depends heavily on that. Realistically, that can be the key difference between competing at the highest levels, or struggling to do so. Look no further than last season’s first round playoff series. The Hawks struggled mightily when Al Horford allowed himself to get out-toughed by Kurt Thomas, and Josh Smith allowed Ersan Ilyasova to out-hustle and outplay him for stretches at a time.

So what can the Hawks do to get tougher? What are Josh Smith and Marvin Williams doing to get tougher. Those are two guys who could really have an impact on the game if they bring it with more force. In fact, that’s the one thing that can really optimize a lineup of long, athletic players. Without it, much is wasted.

How does one change one’s mindset? Different people have different methods. And sometimes the body has to be brought up to speed with the mind. The idea is to be tough all the time, not just when backed into a corner and forced into “fight or flight” mode. Well, it seems one Hawk is going to give it a go in the offseason.  As noted on NBA.com (on the Atlanta Hawks official site), backup center Zaza Pachulia has added to his offseason regimen, and the results might be more than just better conditioning, footwork, and overall stamina. It might just result in a tougher approach to the game. All I can say is watch out Kevin Garnett! I still love that moment in Hawks history…

 

The “other” Star Guard

According to ESPN.com, Hawks super sub Jamal Crawford would like to discuss money matters. He wants to remain a Hawk, and I’m sure any Hawks spokesperson would likely state that they would like to keep him around. And while Jamal has been around the league for a decade (and been with several teams), he may as well get comfortable wherever he is sitting. After all, things don’t tend to happen around the front office at lightning speed. Especially if they don’t really have to. The question is, do the Hawks want him to finish out his career in Atlanta? Might they see him as a two way asset, or has he proven himself to be indispensable? Jamal seemed to fit in pretty darn well, and that is not likely to change under new head coach Larry Drew. But, if the Hawks are very slow or otherwise noncommittal to signing him to an extension, what might it be an indication of? Of course, a number of theories could abound. Understandably, they may be more focused on preparing an extension offer to Al Horford. Or, they may have other moves up their sleeve. You just never know. But, for the sake of the sanity of blogger Steve Brown, I won’t mention one of the most obvious and talked about (by others, not just me) possibilities.

In the meantime, I wish I could be an invisible fly on the wall in training camp. If for no other reason than to watch Jamal Crawford playing against Jordan Crawford. That would have to be a fun matchup, no?

560 comments Add your comment

SteveW

July 30th, 2010
12:38 am

Niremetal – you’ve been shown wrong on a few accounts on this issue – it’s ok if you won’t admit it. I enjoy most of your posts – very informative and well thought out. But nobody hits a HR everytime. Face it, Yahoo sports reports it – Hawks deny it – Sund implies at best, says it at worst, that we really didn’t need the money – going to be spent for vet bigs – and their hoping the fanbase forgets. Let’s move on – I’m just wanting the Hawks to be a winner – the East has improved alot, except for the Cavs – I don’t want us hoping to be a top 4 seed – I see us with a chance to be a contender – I just don’t want ASG lying – and getting the fan base this close and then going cheap.

Again, I’ll say it – if ASG wanted to sell the pick and put it on the National debt, that’s their business. Just don’t spin it that your getting the cash to better the team because of a public outcry – and then hope the fanbase forgets. Call them out on it – it’s for the good of the team.

niremetal

July 30th, 2010
12:40 am

SteveW,

You’re just become a pest at this point:

Problem admitting your wrong? Looks like it to me.

Show me where Sund connected the $3M with spending more money on veterans. Then I’ll admit I’m wrong.

Dude, the whole fanbase whose been following this issue this summer is waiting for Sund to spend the cash.

Thanks for saying what I’ve been saying. The fanbase (or rather, certain segments of the fanbase obsessed with the Hawks’ spending habits) thought that’s what Sund meant. I’m saying that the fanbase’s interpretation is based on a single quote by Rick Sund that did not, in fact, connect the cash with signing more expensive veterans.

I think in a court of law, it would be interpreted in a way that MC, Horford, myself, and a ton of Hawks fans have interpreted it as well.

1) Please, don’t tell me what a court of law would say. First off, you’re coming at this from the wrong angle. The issue in court wouldn’t be “what does this quote mean.” Courts aren’t given open-ended questions like that. They are not permitted to do so. The parties must frame specific issues for the court to resolve. The issue would be “I think that this quote by X was a statement of his intent to Y. Does a preponderance of the evidence support that interpretation?” Everything about the fanbase’s opinions would be excluded on relevancy and hearsay grounds because what other people think about what Person X should/would do is not relevant evidence of Person X’s actual intent.

2) Please, PLEASE tell me where Horford said that. Horford has said that he wants more frontcourt help. As far as I know, he hasn’t commented on the draft day trade at ALL much less said that he believes Sund said that the money from the trade would be used to acquire more expensive veterans.

niremetal

July 30th, 2010
12:43 am

SteveW,

You are not separating two very distinct things:

1) What Rick Sund and other people in the Hawks’ front office have actually said they will or should do; and
2) What other people think about what Rick Sund and the Hawks’ front office will or should do.

Do you understand that there is a difference between those two things? Because your posts continually cite things that in category #2 as if they are part of category #1.

niremetal

July 30th, 2010
12:45 am

you’ve been shown wrong on a few accounts on this issue

You should meet a guy from College Park that I know. Something tells me you two would get along real well…

SteveW

July 30th, 2010
12:59 am

I assume because he shows you that you are wrong, and you have a basic inability to admit it?

Ok, Horford had Jason Collins, Joe Smith and RandMo to help he, Josh, and ZaZa in the post. You tell me what he meant when he said he was looking forward to more help. Answer the question.

You said that Sund just wanted veterans, not necessarily bigs to fill out the roster. You were shown that the vets would be bigs – wrong again.

MC assumed that’s what Sund meant – and he was there, and you were not – MC wrong and your right?

Assuming what the fanbase wants, and what Sund ASG said are 2 different things – of course – I am going by what MC said Sund was saying about the deal not the fanbase – we both know the fanbase can be whacked out.

And why do you ignore the whole Yahoo Sports report scenario – doesn’t fit your view?

SteveW

July 30th, 2010
1:00 am

I suspect I am becoming a pest, because you are wrong, and don’t won’t to admit it….

SteveW

July 30th, 2010
1:08 am

‘Sources say that this is the reason Atlanta is willing to sell its first-round pick for $3 million this summer’

From Yahoo sports April 26th

SteveW

July 30th, 2010
1:13 am

Moving down three spots in the first round saves the Hawks about $190,000 for the two guaranteed years of Crawford’s contract. They also sold the rights to German center Tibor Pleiss to Oklahoma City for close to $3 million, the maximum amount allowable under salary-cap rules.

While the Hawks could have selected a project center or wing with that pick, Sund suggested the money earned from selling the pick would be used to add proven players to the roster.

“I think we need more veterans,” he said. “We are one of the youngest teams in the league still. I think we need to fill out the rest of the roster with veterans.”

In a brilliant move – they get a 1st rounder and still come out with 3m for selling the 31st pick and the savings between the slot of the 24th pick and the 27th pick

SteveW

July 30th, 2010
1:16 am

According to Michael Cunningham of The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Hawks co-owner Michael Gearon Jr. says team is not looking to sell draft pick. Gearon said they “haven’t had that conversation with anyone” about the draft pick.

MC’s Twitter -= April 29th

SteveW

July 30th, 2010
1:19 am

It’s also going to be interesting to see what the Hawks do as far as Al’s contract extension. The Hawks can offer him one that begins in 2011-12 and is worth up to five years and $82 million. The deadline for a deal is Oct. 31.

Al had said he knew the Hawks would take care of J.J. first. Now that they did, would he like to talk to them about an extension?

“We’ll see,” he said. “If the time is right. It is something that I will have to talk to my agent about. I know that the priority for the team was to re-sign Joe. We will see what happens the rest of the summer as far as the free agents if they are trying to get anybody else.”

Horford obviously wants some other Free Agents before he commits to this team! Can anybody say 3m from draft day?

niremetal

July 30th, 2010
1:25 am

SteveW,

The reason you are like him is because you say you have “shown” or “proven” something when in reality, all you have done is presented your opinion and declared it proven. You don’t seem to understand the difference between opinion (which cannot be “shown” or “proven”) and fact (which can be).

Of equal concern – and something you still haven’t addressed – is that you don’t seem to get the difference between 1) what Sund and the Hawks said and 2) what other people said. This just perfectly sums up what you’ve been doing:
“We’ll see,” he said. “If the time is right. It is something that I will have to talk to my agent about. I know that the priority for the team was to re-sign Joe. We will see what happens the rest of the summer as far as the free agents if they are trying to get anybody else.”

Horford obviously wants some other Free Agents before he commits to this team! Can anybody say 3m from draft day?

In the name of everything that is holy, where did you get the idea that Al was somehow referring to the $3M from draft day? He didn’t mention it ANYWHERE and yet you STILL cite that as if it is!

I need to get to bed, because I have a day job starting in 7.5 hours. Do you what my day job is, btw? Reading through people’s arguments (sometimes backed up by credible evidence, sometimes not), analyzing them, and finding logical gaps.

SteveW

July 30th, 2010
1:26 am

Sund said the focus would getting bigs for the last three roster spots. That’s good news to Al, who thinks the Hawks definitely need to acquire a bona fide center.

“We need to get another big guy, another center, that’s able to help myself and Josh out,” he said. “We need to have someone to come in and have an impact. I think that is the position we need if we want to be any type of contender in the East.”

Al said he doesn’t necessarily mean getting a center to supplant him as the starter so he can move to power forward. Rather, it could be a scenario where the new center plays a lot of minutes and L.D. can mix and match from among the new guy, Al, Josh, Zaza and any other big guys Sund adds (a Jason Collins return is a possibility if he gets in better shape).

And here, Horford is expecting an impact player at the Center spot – said had to have it if they were going to be any type of contender in the East.

So connecting the dots – Hawks try to sell 1st pick – fans react negatively.

Hawks sell 31st pick, while still obtaining a 1st pick in a master stroke.

Sund says the 3m will be used to upgrade with vets – defined in above as vet bigs.

Horford says this is necessary for the Hawks to be a contender in the East.

1st 2 vet bigs – Powell, whom hoopinions shows is statistically worse than Joe Smith
Jason Collins 2.0

Only 1 shot left…

SteveW

July 30th, 2010
1:30 am

Your day job is obviously not answering questions that are brought to you – because you defintely aren’t doing that in this case.

Like I said – you parse words, swallowing a camel while straining at a gnat.

Horford never said 3m – he said what other Free Agents we pursue – we already had league minimum free agents – what do you think he meant, and what money would the Hawks use to go above the league minimum and get an impact Center that Horford requested?

SteveW

July 30th, 2010
1:33 am

The cut and paste quotes above are certainly not my opinion – can you not get a grip? So used to looking for logical fallacies, you lost an understanding of truth? The facts speak for themselves – but it is your choice whether you believe them or not.

You can believe the lie that Horford is wanting a quality Center for the vet minimum, just like last year?

You can believe the lie that MC misunderstood Sund about spending the 3m, even though he was there and you were not.

Choice is yours – maybe learn to answer questions instead of looking at logical fallacies on blogs, and get the truth instead of logical fallacies.

SteveW

July 30th, 2010
1:49 am

Niremetal – I mean, what facts do you deny? Which are my opinion and I state them as facts?

1) Did Yahoo sports report on April 26th that ATL was shopping it’s 1st pick? Fact or opinion?

2) Was there a negative fan backlash? Fact or opinion?

3) Did Micheal Gearon Jr. refute the shopping of the 1st pick on MC’s Twitter on April 29th? Fact or opinion?

4) Did the Hawks recieve the equivalent of selling the 1st pick bsically, by selling the 31st pick, and the savings of the slotting between the 24th pick and the 27th pick – fact or opinion?

5) Did MC report that in context, Sund indicated that the 3m as to be used on vets, later identified as vet bigs -and MC was there present – fact or opinion?

6) Did Horford say he was waiting to see what other Free Agents that ATL pursued before contemplating his future – fact or opinion?

7) Did Horford say we needed an impact Center to be a conteder in the East – fact or opinion?

8) If we have to have 13 guys per league rules – and we had 3 vet bigs at the league minimum – wouldn’t you assume that Horford was talking about something other than vet minimum players? And if so, what money would ATL use to acquire them? The 3m! Fact or opinion?

So what is opinion masquerading as fact? – fact, you have been shown wrong on multiple accounts, and your pride of your day job finding logical fallacies in other peoples arguements refuses to allow you to admit it. God bless!

SteveW

July 30th, 2010
2:40 am

Niremetal – all this has actually turned funny – so I’ll continue – remember saying this?

It was fans obsessed with ASG’s spending habits that connected the $3M to signing more expensive veterans. Sund never said it. He never even came close to saying it.

MC sure thought he said it – ‘While the Hawks could have selected a project center or wing with that pick, Sund suggested the money earned from selling the pick would be used to add proven players to the roster’.

And remember saying,
“And where are you getting veteran BIGS from?? No one said that except you.”

Then you were shown the quote
“Sund said the focus would getting bigs for the last three roster spots”. OOops on your part!

SteveW

July 30th, 2010
2:54 am

“and the Hawks told him how much they wanted him back while outlining their plans to improve the team.”

Remember this quote told to JJ to get him to sign? That’s another reason we’ve been expecting improvement, not just change. Crawford over West, Powell over Smith, and jason Collins 2.0 ain’t a huge plan for change is it?
I

SteveW

July 30th, 2010
2:55 am

Nirematal – your cool – keep up the good well informed posts – I appreciate them! Later…

vava74

July 30th, 2010
3:15 am

drmaryb (*_*)

July 30th, 2010
3:23 am

3 Million Point of View!

It seems to me, as I recall it: That Sund indicated the 3M would be used to pay the Luxury Tax from going over the Salary Cap, which wasn’t set at that time.

Now, that the new cap is in place? I have seen NO attempts to broach it. I recall, it being said that Sund wanted a veteran big and NOT a draft project. Gearon said he would pay the
Luxury Tax in a heart beat to sign LeBron! (Insert a Stern Fine here).

But, I specifically recall that 3M was to pay the Luxury Tax for our supposed big helper to help this team. With all the comments bantied about and very little if any comments from the ASG, I may have read that in a MC Blog article.

Oh well, potatoe – Potato! We got the same needs today that Mr. Woodson had the past 6 years.

northcyde

July 30th, 2010
4:41 am

@ drmaryb . . . . I don’t know if Sund threw that out there himself, but I know I thought that’s what it was going to be used for. I thought for sure that when he sold that pick, that he would ( or could ) use it to pay any luxury tax we’d get into by signing those offseason free agents.

Then again, maybe this is what Niremetal is talking about. All of us had our ideas of what that 3 million could be used for.

drmaryb (*_*)

July 30th, 2010
7:43 am

NorthCyde

That script was hilarious and a well needed comic relief to the blog! Sometimes, if you don’t laugh at this stuff? You will cry. I wish we could cry us a back-up Center!

dap01

July 30th, 2010
7:58 am

Why don’t the City of Atlanta have a reporter that will actually call the ASG on all of their “mis-truths”? Why don’t we have a reporter that will ask about the issues that frustrate the average Hawks fan? The Hawks have lied to us. They have put together the cheapest bench possible with absolutely no regard for talent or needs.

When MC is taking a vacation, is their no one else at the AJC to cover the Hawks?

O'Brien

July 30th, 2010
8:30 am

I think us (fans and media) all assumed (based on Sund’s comments) that the money would go towards significant roster upgrades. Even Al and Josh were asking for such (more help down low).

And when Sund resigned JJ, he said it was just the beginning. Llittle did we know that Josh Powell and Collins would be the continuation. I wonder who is the end (13th roster spot).

It is interesting to note that there were reports of the Hawks selling their first round pick leading up to the draft. But I don’t think Sund specifically said what they would use the money for.

On other notes, Boston signed Von Wafer to a one year deal. Didn’t we talk about him last off-season?

SteveW

July 30th, 2010
9:05 am

Northcyde and O’Brien

MC said Sund “indicated” that he would spend the 3m to upgrade the roster in this quote from an interview with Sund:

‘While the Hawks could have selected a project center or wing with that pick, Sund suggested the money earned from selling the pick would be used to add proven players to the roster’.

So we as fans are not assuming this – MC said Sund told him that’s what he was going to do with it. Niremetal’s point is he thinks MC misunderstood Sund.

SteveW

July 30th, 2010
9:06 am

Ooops – “indicated” should be “suggested” in the above post – my bad.

SteveW

July 30th, 2010
9:14 am

These two quotes by Al Horford should scare any Hawks fan who wants Al to stay with the team during Free Agency:

“Al had said he knew the Hawks would take care of J.J. first. Now that they did, would he like to talk to them about an extension?”

“We’ll see,” he said. “If the time is right. It is something that I will have to talk to my agent about. I know that the priority for the team was to re-sign Joe. We will see what happens the rest of the summer as far as the free agents if they are trying to get anybody else.”

- Al only wants to come back if we get good FA’s – he was not talking about vet minimum guys – you have to have 13 players per league rules – can anybody say “Uh-oh”?

We need to get another big guy, another center, that’s able to help myself and Josh out,” he said. “We need to have someone to come in and have an impact. I think that is the position we need if we want to be any type of contender in the East.”

- Al says we need another center to be any type of contender in the East – we had Jason Collins last year, so he obviously wasn’t speaking of him. Can anybody say “uh-oh” again?

Astro Joe

July 30th, 2010
9:33 am

I think the other part missing in the latest canniblogging battle, is that the Hawks big man depth issue seemingly can’t be improved with minimum waged players. Simply bringing in Powell and Collins doesn’t feel like a significant improvement with $3M sitting on the table. I think some fans jumped to the unfortunate conclusion that adding more vets on the heels of obtaining $3M would mean, “adding better/more expensive vets”. Instead, we got sameness. Powell (a better rebounder but maybe not a better player than Joe Smith) and Collins (who will likely report to camp in much better condition). The good news is that Hawks fans (some) still actually believe that the GM is looking to improve the team during the off-season and that there will be financial support to aid him in that quest. A fan base with lofty expectations of players, coaches, GM and ownership is a good thing. Sameness has not yet extinguished the flame of hope and optimism.

Astro Joe

July 30th, 2010
9:40 am

Here’s another analogy. You’ve been eating Spam everyday for dinner for the past month. Old fashioned, meat-in-a-can Spam. Your wife sells a piece of family jewelry valued at $5,000 and says “I am tired of eating old fashioned Spam everyday for dinner”. So the husband is thinking “thank goodness, maybe we can at least have some spaghetti or meatloaf for dinner for a change”. And the wife walks in with Turkey Spam. It’s newer (Powell) and has less saturated fat (the new Collins) but its still a variation of Spam.

Melvin

July 30th, 2010
9:45 am

Astro,
You did it again…. Kicking my desk laughing so hard….

SteveW,
You are a pitbull…lol

Nire,
Look like SteveW ain’t giving in…lol

niremetal

July 30th, 2010
9:59 am

Astro,

I’m assuming that the Hawks’ front office is supposed to be the wife. The problem is that the Hawks’ front office never expressed dissatisfaction with the veterans (or, for that matter, the rookie) on the roster last year. On the contrary, Gearon said that he thought Joe Smith and Jason Collins were mis-/under-utilized by Woody:
http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-hawks/sund-takes-time-on-525085.html
Gearon said the Hawks’ offense too often stagnated because of poor ball movement. He said he also thinks rookie point guard Jeff Teague should have played more minutes this season and veterans Joe Smith and Jason Collins should have played bigger roles in the Orlando series.

Nonetheless, the Spam analogy seems oddly fitting for Jason Collins…

SteveW

July 30th, 2010
10:02 am

Sund suggested the money earned from selling the pick would be used to add proven players to the roster’.

Guys, the above quote comes from MC – he knows.

April 26th – Yahoo Sports says ATL shopping 1st pick

-Fan outrage over cheap ASG

April 29th – Micheal Gearon Jr. denies ATL shopping 1st pick

June 25th – Sund pulls a coup and gets selling 1st pick money, and still gets a 1st pick keeping both sides happy – fans and ASG

Sund overplays his hand and suggests the 3m will be used for veteran bigs – obvious implication is over and above vet minimum pay, because you gotta have 13 guys regardless

From then until now – Sund called on it, and hopefully will continue to be by fans and AJC until he pony’s up the cash to make us a contender!

See Horford quote – “We need to have someone to come in and have an impact. I think that is the position we need if we want to be any type of contender in the East.”

We only have 1 more spot to make this happen, if ASG only wants to carry 13

Melvin

July 30th, 2010
10:04 am

I agree with Astro and Obrien. I think a lot us (fans and media) was assuming that the 3mil would be used to acquire above the vet min free agents. Although Sund did indicate that the money would be used to offset the luxury tax prior to the new salary cap was establish for the upcoming season. I think the Hawks (like many others) were assuming the salary cap would go down and they would have to spend into luxury tax to field the required 13 man roster. Upon everyone surprise, the salary cap went up therefore it may have change the intent on how to spend/used the 3 mil acquired. Just my two cents…

SteveW

July 30th, 2010
10:06 am

MC said again, for clarity’s sake – “Sund suggested the money earned from selling the pick would be used to add proven players to the roster’. ” 3m, over and above vet minimum guys – because you have to have 13 players minimum to have a team.

Sund wasn’t saying we are going to use this 3m or the Hawks will shut down, was he? Of course not.

Guys, don’t give them a pass – call them on it!!!

Astro Joe

July 30th, 2010
10:09 am

nire, I can only hope that the sameness was a decision made by the basketball expert (Sund) and not ownership. I suspect that Sund saw more practices and had a better understanding of player capabilities than Gearon could ever understand.

O'Brien

July 30th, 2010
10:13 am

Steve W,

Unfortunately, as fans, all we will get from ownership and GM is:

1) “we like our core”

2) “we were not going to overpay for certain guys”

3) “Woody was the problem, so the same guys will be better under Drew”

drmaryb (*_*)

July 30th, 2010
10:14 am

SteveW & Niremental

I think you two already spent that 3 Million Dollars between last night and this morning.
Let’s Move on. We have spent more time on this team all summer than the Hawks have in 6 years.

And like Astro Joe said: Same Ole – Same Ole! If we had a new player on this team? At least we would have something new to talk about. But, as things stand, not a darn thing is going on over at Phillips Arena –
And, that’s the real story here.

Aye …. ASKG! Mr. Woodson was NOT your only problem here – You are!
Build your damn team … Build it and they will come!

Ken Strickland

July 30th, 2010
10:21 am

STEVEW-Horford didn’t say the “TEAM” needed more help with rebounding. He said “HE AND JSMITH” needed more help. That tells me he was suggesting MWilliams should become more consistent with his rebounding, since he’s the only other starter that could give he and Josh the rebounding help he felt was needed.

I wouldn’t say that CBosh is better then JSmith either, although he’s considered better offensively at this point. Here’s why I say that. Last yr CBosh had 1158 FGA in 70gms and averaged 24PPG, 10.8RPG, 2.04APG, .97BPG and .61SPG.

JSmith had 999FGA in 81GMS and averaged 15.7PPG, 8.7RPG, 4.2APG, 2.14BPG and 1.6SPG.

Here’s a breakdown of each players combined OFF contributions to their respective teams last yr. Bosh(JSmith)

CBosh-2.4APG(4.2) x 2pts=4.8PPG(8.4)+24PPG(15.7)=28.8(24.1)combined average contribution per gm.

This demonstrates that offensively CBosh contributed a combined 4.7PPG more than JSmith, but it took him 159 more FGA’s in 11 fewer gms to produce that 4.7PPG advantage. You must also consider that CBosh was Toronto’s #1 scoring option, while JSmith was the Hawks #2 or #3 scoring option. There’s no question JSmith is a far superior DEF player, and he still has room for overall improvement, while CBosh has peeked.

As far as AHaslem being better than JPowell, can’t argue with that, at least at this point. Remember, this is the same AHaslem that the Hawks cut out of training camp a few yrs back. JPowell could very easily end up being just as good as Haslem, if not better, if he consistently gets the mins and opportunity to demonstrate what he can do.

THIS IS NOT A CHAMPIONSHIP CALIBER ROSTER AT THIS POINT, AND THE HAWKS AREN’T READY TO BE AN NBA TITLE CONTENDER. There are simply too many unknowns that need to be resolved, like:

1-What can we expect from PG JTeague,
2-How effective will MBibby be in our new DEF system, and/or if he comes off the bench,
3-What can we expect from MWilliams in LDrews new OFF,
4-How effective will our new DEF approach be against teams with a strong inside presence, like the Magic and Lakers,
5-How effective will JSmith and AHorford be in LDrew and LConnor’s new OFF/DEF systems,
6-How effective will JPowell and a slimmer, better conditioned JCollins be off the bench,
7-How much of an improvement can we expect from the hiring of HC LDrew and his top assistant LConner,
8-How effective will JaCrawford and JoCrawford be in our new OFF/DEF systems?

Until we’ve answered these questions, it just wouldn’t make sense to break the bank trying to sign high priced players before training camp even starts.

Ken Strickland

July 30th, 2010
10:29 am

DRMARYB-one of your excellent points stood out to me. While Woodson certainly had his problems and held the team back in a number of ways, he can’t be blamed for a fractured ownership group and their legal issues. He did have to function at a total disadvantage in that area.

Astro Joe

July 30th, 2010
10:39 am

I received this email today. I’m guessing that there are 20+ other teams that are using the Heat as a promotional tool. Kind of sad in a way to use a division rival’s fortunes to promote your team. But you have to use what you got to get what you want. In this case, using Powell and JoCrawford to drive ticket sales would probably not be the ideal marketing plan.

Hawks Fans,

Guarantee yourself tickets to the HOTTEST game in Atlanta this upcoming Hawks season! Right now through this offer only we are taking $200 deposits that will guarantee yourself tickets to either one of the two Hawks vs. Heat games this coming season (no ticket minimum required). You will be able to select your seats before they even go on sale to the general public.

The $200 that you are putting down today will then be used toward the balance of the tickets you choose. Tickets for this game are in the highest demand we have ever seen here in Atlanta so don’t miss this limited opportunity.

This is a limited time offer that will absolutely end Friday August 6th COB. Don’t miss your opportunity to get Hawks vs. Heat tickets for this upcoming season. I can promise you there won’t be a second chance to lock this up. This is a special presale we are doing for only PA Insider companies and their employees!

The Truth

July 30th, 2010
10:47 am

Here is another angle at The Truth regarding what we thought Sund meant with the 3M. From my Sys Eng’ing days, it’s looking at input vs. output. Instead of trying to translate someone else’s comments risking misinterpretation. Just simply look at the output of the GM past and present actions or inactions (his inputs). It is what it is. What you see is what we have. Someone’s actions or inactions will speak much louder the words or comments or quotes or misquotes. However for some, even this may not work because of opinion blindness but it least it’s another attempt at blog sanity.

SteveW

July 30th, 2010
10:53 am

Ken Strickland – I was including Haslem versus Powell in the PF look between the Heat and the Hawks. Hoopinion showed statistically that Powell was actually inferior to Joe Smith.

Also Ken, here is Horford’s quote – “We need to get another big guy, another center, that’s able to help myself and Josh out,” he said. “We need to have someone to come in and have an impact. I think that is the position we need if we want to be any type of contender in the East.”

He said we need another Center, someone to come in, not Marvin Williams to step up rebounding, even though that would obviously be nice.

SteveW

July 30th, 2010
10:57 am

Ken Strickland – hope your correct on Powell. I hope he develops into a great player. Maybe Gattison can help with that.

Also, just wanted to reiterate, I never said that Bosh was a whole lot better than Josh Smith. I love Josh’s style of play, his high flying athleticism, great defense, passing etc. Man, if he could do that, and have Bosh’s professionalism…well, he wouldn’t be Josh Smith would he?

SteveW

July 30th, 2010
11:00 am

The Truth – sometimes I think some of you guys work for ASG. Why cover? That was in the MC column – he knows. Nobody is making this up. Did he ever ask MC to retract what was written? Most guys I know in public read what is said about them to make sure there are no misrepresentations.

Rod from College Park

July 30th, 2010
11:03 am

“You should meet a guy from College Park that I know. Something tells me you two would get along real well…”

SteveW,

He will never admit when he’s wrong, so don’t even waste you time. You are correct. This is the same guy who tried to convince me that Marvin Williams was the next Scottie Pippen two years ago. I wonder who was correct?

Ken Strickland,

“STEVEW-Horford didn’t say the “TEAM” needed more help with rebounding. He said “HE AND JSMITH” needed more help. That tells me he was suggesting MWilliams should become more consistent with his rebounding, since he’s the only other starter that could give he and Josh the rebounding help he felt was needed.”

If you actually think that Horford, was talking about Marvin Williams in that quote then you are more delusional than I previously thought. None of the top guys on this team respect Marvin’s game enough to expect anything more from Marvin, as proven by them “freezing him out” or, not including him in the offense as you would say. If you play with a guy who consistently under performs, you would actually be a fool to expect him to over perform on a consistent basis.

Astro,

The Hawks promote their team by using other teams in the league to draw fans. It is pretty pathetic. I have been a season ticket holder for the past 6 years, and they can count me out as long as they continue to trout out this Marvin Williams character, and continue with this “core” crap.

Astro Joe

July 30th, 2010
11:10 am

Another voice weighs in on the Hawks’ big man depth for the coming season.

“Bad news for fans of youth, possibility, or quality depth”.

http://www.hoopinionblog.com/2010/07/hawks-officially-sign-josh-powell-jason.html

The Truth

July 30th, 2010
11:11 am

SteveW

Lol if you think I work for the ASG. I have been calling at Sund before it was popular. Regarding my last comment, don’t wear those shoes if they don’t fit you. Actually, I think your prospective regarding this matter makes sense to me. I’m just offering another way at looking at the obvious.

drmaryb (*_*)

July 30th, 2010
11:13 am

SteveW

Whatever the ASG wants to use the 3M for? You were NOT going to get any type of Impact player
for 3M or 4M for that matter. You certainly weren’t going to get 4 players for 3M or a draft pick of that value per year, especially If you were looking at Daniel Orton, Solomon Alabi, (whose stock fell for + Hepatitis B test result), Hassan Whiteside, etc. All these picks were passed on in round 1 for a reason.

Besides, those three combined couldn’t STOP Dwight on a good day! We need to win NOW,
not fiddle around with developing future talent, our team is not only young but also healthy!
Health is NOT guaranteed year in and out, so, now is the time!

Go get Shaq Now, for the love of Basketball! Stop friggin’ playing around with every little decision,
It’s just a sillý past-time ASG! You guys are NOT solving the economy and World Peace for crying out loud!

Give us a damned team to supporÞ! Geez!
Go Figure!

The Truth

July 30th, 2010
11:13 am

Correction: “I have been calling out Sund before it was popular”

niremetal

July 30th, 2010
11:16 am

Rod,

When did I ever compare Marvin to Pippen? Answer: Never. The only Hawks player I have ever compared to Pippen is JJ. Nice try.